September 16, 2025 • 56 mins
Parks are like the little green lungs of a city, and in St. Louis, they’re practically bursting with stories! We kick things off by boasting about our beloved parks, the perfect spots for a picnic, a casual stroll, or a wild bike ride to nowhere. But wait, did you know there’s a park that was saved by the "Real Housewives of Jefferson County?" Yep, that’s right! We dive into the juicy details of how some fierce housewives rallied to save a piece of history. Plus, we uncover the surprising backstory of a park that once served as a hospital for Union soldiers during the Civil War and was also the site for the 1946 US Olympic water polo team tryouts.
It’s a delightful blend of history and modern day shenanigans as we chat with the phenomenal NiNi Harris, the mastermind behind the book 'St. Louis Parks', who has a family member who planted trees in these very parks starting in 1864. She also discusses the development of the city's parks, highlighting the visionary planning that started in 1907 to create a connected park system via Kingshighway Boulevard. Trust me, you’re gonna want to stick around for this!
[00:00] Introduction to St. Louis Parks
[00:52] Meet the Hosts: Arnold and Mark
[01:57] Thoughts on Hard Work and Opportunities
[03:16] Introducing Nini Harris: St. Louis Historian
[05:15] Diving into St. Louis History
[07:25] The Importance of Primary Sources
[08:51] St. Louis During the Civil War
[12:35] The Rich Heritage of St. Louis
[16:22] Exploring St. Louis Parks
[21:19] The Second Edition of St. Louis Parks
[27:57] The Role of County Parks
[28:42] Rediscovering Jefferson Barracks
[29:06] Historical Significance of Jefferson Barracks
[31:48] Famous Figures at Jefferson Barracks
[32:31] The Legacy of Walter Krueger
[33:54] Exploring St. Louis Parks
[35:55] The Ribbon of Parkway Vision
[37:52] Connecting North and South St. Louis
[41:52] The Evolution of St. Louis Parks
[43:48] The Real Housewives of Jefferson County
[47:35] The Importance of Parks in St. Louis
[55:12] Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Takeaways:
- Parks are not just for a picnic; they house rich histories and events, like the Olympic team tryouts.
- Nene Harris shared that her great-great-grandfather planted trees in St. Louis parks back in 1864. How cool is that?
- Did you know the Real Housewives of Jefferson County saved a park? It's a wild story that shows how community action can make a difference!
- St. Louis boasts over 100 parks despite being only 61 square miles, showcasing its dedication to green spaces.
- The history of St. Louis is layered and complex, intertwining with significant events like the Civil War and immigration waves.
- Parks in St. Louis have evolved to serve communities, providing activities for youth and acting as vital community hubs.
This is Season 8! For more episodes, go to stlintune.com
#stlouisparks #parksandrecreation #historicalparks #jeffersonbarracks #forestparkforever #fairgroundspark #towergrovepark #lafayettpark #carondeletpark
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We love parks here at St.Louis and Thune, and I'm sure that
you love parks, too, becausethey're a great place for recreation,
for a picnic or just bicyclingor walking. But did you know the
park that was saved by theReal Housewives of Jefferson County?
Do you know the park that wasa hospital for Union soldiers? Do
you know it? Also, that samepark hosted the 1946 U.S. olympic
(00:23):
water polo team tryouts andalso a 2005 movie. We're going to
talk to the author of St.Louis Parks, whose great, great grandfather's
first job in St. Louis in 1864was planting trees in the St. Louis
park. All this on St. Louis inTune. Welcome to St. Louis in Tune,
(00:53):
and thank you for joining usfor fresh perspectives on issues
and events with experts,community leaders and and everyday
people who make a differencein shaping our society and world.
I'm Arnold Stricker, alongwith Marcus Langstonis, AKA Mark
Langston.
Mark, Howdy.
Greetings to you, sir.
Greetings to you. You'relooking good. You're looking chipper.
(01:13):
I appreciate that.
Yeah. Got a little spring inyour step today.
Yes. I haven't been putthrough the chipper, but I do look
that way.
It's terrible. Terrible. Okay. Yeah.
Anyway, Friday the 13th.
Really? Oh, man. The TexasChainsaw Massacre. Oh, my God, there's
another one. Oh, that was abad one. So that when I was a kid,
(01:36):
it did damage me.
That explains it.
That's right.
Oh, folks, we're glad thatyou've joined us today. We want to
thank our sponsor, Better RateMortgage, for their support of the
show. You can listen toprevious shows@stl and tune.com.
please help us continue togrow by leaving a review on our website,
Apple Podcast, or yourpreferred podcast platform. Our thought
(01:57):
to ponder today, opportunitiesare usually disguised as hard work,
so most people don't recognizethem. Such truth opportunities are
usually disguised as hardwork, so most people don't recognize
them. Ann Lander said that.
Is that right? No problems,just challenges and opportunities.
(02:21):
Yeah. If you think about it,when somebody starts something and
they're really working hardand maybe they're on a job, an entry
job, and they're working hard,the foreman or the boss many times
recognizes people thatactually work rather than skate.
What a concept. Working. Okay. Yeah.
(02:41):
And if you want to go far andyou're a youngster listening to the
program, work hard and whatyou do, the very best, you can, show
up ahead of time.
Oh, isn't that the truth?
Remember, we had that saying,what Is it?
Go ahead.
Early's on time on times.Late's unforgivable.
There you go. Yes. So true, sotrue, so true.
(03:02):
Something to do.
Come across it too many timesin the last couple weeks too. Oh,
yeah.
Something to talk about afterthe show.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's,let's slander people. I'm kidding,
just kidding.
Oh, we don't want to slanderour guest because she is like the
St. Louis historian atextraordinaire. Nene Harris has been
(03:24):
on the show many times andshe's an author of these new second
edition St. Louis Parks. Sheand Eslee Hamilton co authored this
book. Nene, welcome back toSt. Louis in Tune.
It is my pleasure to be here,but I love your statements about
being early who worked likethat with Stan Musial and what a
(03:49):
success he was. And he grew upvery poor. They really were in desperate
straits. Both his parents wereworking, but it was just times were
hard and he just worked sohard at everything he did and was
so successful. And he said mylife's a fairy tale. That's how he
(04:13):
looked at it. Instead of thehardship of how hard he worked, he
said it was a fairy tale.
But I think that's aperspective that you get maybe from
your upbringing or maybeschool or someone, a mentor who is
an influence could be aneighbor. And I sense that from you
too, because you have justjumped into the waters of historical
(04:38):
St. Louis and are just, you'renot floundering around. You are swimming
variety of strok. You do toursdowntown. You go to the Central Library
and Missouri HistoricalSociety and do research. And you,
what Is this your ninth, tenth book?
20Th. Wow.
(05:01):
You're.
Well, let's go back. This isyour 20th book?
Yeah. I've done institutionalhistories and all that are parts
of St. Louis history. It's allthis city is just a phenomenal place
that has such a layered, richstory. I visit so many places where
(05:29):
you visit the historic siteand you get a sense that they were
important at one time in theirhistory. And here we just keep layering
on more stories ofimmigration, of the Civil War, of
(05:51):
the expansion west, to whathappened in the 20th century with
the waves of immigrantsbecoming Americans and using their
industrial might. And they hada powerful might in just their hard
work in building this greatcity and then in defeating the fascist
(06:18):
in World War II. Who did that?It was people on Washington Avenue
who were making uniforms andboots or they were making Red Cross
tents in the mart buildingnext to City Hall. And this is just
a great place to studyhistory. And we have great people,
(06:40):
we always have great leaders.
And you're someone who findsout or knows that information and
you just don't keep it toyourself. You put it in the form
of some books. And this is thesecond edition by Reedy Press. And
I think what's great aboutthat is unless that information is
communicated and it gets lost.
(07:03):
First we have to document. Andthat is something that people are
not doing today. They don'tdig for answers. Dig for primary
sources. We are still arelatively young city. We can find
primary sources.
(07:25):
And when you say primarysources, define that for some people
who may not be keeping historyon their own.
Yeah. Do it for me, will you?
It's like finding. Say you'restudying the Civil War. There's so
much myth about St. Louis andthe Civil War era.
Yeah.
(07:45):
You go to letters that werewritten to family members. Then you
go to the newspapers and seewhere. What the people were reading
that day. I went to the censusrecords and just read entry after
entry of who was living whereand figuring out what languages you
(08:10):
would hear on the streets. Isthat first person that account from
the day from the action. Andfor instance, I did a book on the
Civil War in St. Louis. Whatit was like to live in St. Louis
during the Civil War. And Idid it because I was so frustrated
(08:33):
with hearing people with allthese ideas about it didn't who had
never looked at a primarysource give.
Us an example of something youheard that you knew was not correct
and then you may be correctedbecause of the primary sources that
you had investigated.
With the Civil War, it wasthat we really were a union city.
(09:00):
There was leadership andlongtime St. Louisans who were associated
with the south, particularlyeconomically. But we had a population
of 160,000. This. Now thisreally applies today. We had a population
(09:22):
of 160,000 people. 60,000 wereborn in Germany.
Wow.
40,000 were born. Are notquite 40,000. 39,000 and something
were born in Ireland. We werea foreign city. Aliens built this
(09:45):
city. Wow. That. And thatdoesn't include. I found lots of
people born in Bohemia. Wellover 2000. That's why I was reading
entries. That's how itstarted. Because Bohemians weren't
counted as Bohemians. Theywere tossed in with the Austrian
(10:07):
Empire. And I wanted to findhow many were born in Bohemia. So
I. I'd read all the entrieslooking for born in Prague. And it
would say Prague and then belisted as Austria. But it was what
became Czechoslovakia. Now theCzech Republic. There were 300 people
born in Poland. There were 300people from Switzerland who lived
(10:33):
on Gravoj, very close to here,very close to the studio. There were
300 Swiss born St. Louis, whowere dairy farmers over where St.
Francis de Sales is now. Okay,that's primary source. Reading the
(10:57):
documents of the day. Now,sometimes primary sources do not
become available till later onbecause some primary sources are
top secret. Like growing upwhere I always lived in south St.
Louis, you knew the Battle ofthe Bulge was terrible because you'd
(11:20):
hear conversations of peoplesaying about our parents generation,
talking of a brother or anuncle who had frozen and. And they
thawed him out and sent himback to the front. I met people who
were in boot camp, and bootcamp was cut short so they could
(11:42):
ship them out to Europe. Youknew it was horrible. But it wasn't
till years, decades after thewar that the casualties of the Battle
of the Bulge were releasedbecause it was so horrendous that
they felt it was too much forpeople to cope with.
(12:06):
Interesting.
So when I was in high schoolgoing to St. Elizabeth's here, I
used to read the Post Dispatchback pages to read about World War
II, because there they wouldhave little items about things that
were just declassified fromthe war.
Interesting.
Yeah. Sometimes the primarysource comes available later, but
(12:32):
it's a primary source.
Yeah. Now, I know we'resupposed to talk about St. Louis
parks, but you got me on theUnion city Confederate state. Okay.
So since we were mostlyimmigrants with leadership which
had Southern kind ofinfluence, you're saying that we
(12:52):
were more of a Southern city.
We were seen as a Southerncity, but there were all these Germans
who were dedicated to theUnion and dedicated to abolition,
who were living mostly south,but a lot north of downtown. They
(13:15):
were building communitiesalong the river. And they. They came
here because they believed indemocracy, and they were appalled
at slavery. And I didn'tunderstand how this image of St.
Louis persisted. And yearsago, I was talking to a very fine
(13:39):
historian who was from theeast, and he said, there were no
abolitionists here. And Isaid, they were all alone for St.
Louis. And he. And it came up.This is how I found the definition
they were using of anabolitionist was someone who was
(14:03):
a member of an abolitionistsociety or subscribed to an abolitionist
newspaper. They would havebeen in English, the German 60,000
German immigrants who wereorganized and ready to defend this
Union. They weren't members ofthose organizations.
(14:27):
No.
They had their own languageand papers.
That's right. And so this justkind of went under the radar. But
I went to St. Louis PublicGrade School in St. Louis Public
Grade School in eighth grade.We were singing while we were marching
(14:48):
through Georgia. That is oneof the little evidences of that German
community that they fought inthe western armies. They fought with
Grant and then with Shermangoing south and then cutting across
(15:10):
east to the Carolinas. Afterthe war, they got involved with education,
public education. And Even inthe 1960s, 100 years later, we're
singing the songs they wereproud of. I didn't know that everyone
across the country did notsing while we were marching through
(15:32):
Georgia. I found that out thetough way. You didn't sing that.
When I went to college and meta number of singers, Southerners,
I had no idea that we sang itas part of history. We knew in St.
Louis public grade schoolabout that march through Georgia.
Wow.
Isn't that. To me, that's howtied and that's how union this city
(15:58):
was.
Now folks, you understand whywe love to have Nene on and just
have a conversation with her.And we haven't even gotten to the
parks yet, but it's. That'sinformation, Mark. And listeners
that.
Who knew it brings up theMason Dixon line to me. And then
the arsenal, I guess the wholearsenal thing, which I don't know.
(16:21):
If this is all tied in withour parks, though. That's one of
the things that is so strangewhen you're do. When I was doing
park history, how much CivilWar history is tied in with our early
city parks.
Right? Whoa.
And even Lafayette park, ourvery first park west in the Mississippi,
(16:42):
very tied in with the CivilWar used. It was used as a union
camp for union volunteers from Missouri.
Wow.
Not just the lion park next tothe arsenal. It's so closely knit
together. But I'm sorry, I'vegot to tell you about my publisher,
(17:03):
Reedy Press. They published mybook A Most Unsettled State, which
what I did in that book was Iused all first person accounts of
what it was like to live inSt. Louis during the Civil War because
I got so tired of thisinterpretation and reinterpretation
(17:24):
based on other interpretationsand current attitudes. And so I did
this book. They published itand they're in fact they keep having
to republish it becausethere's ongoing demand for it or
reprint it.
Yeah. ReadyPress.com r e e d ypress.com and that's the thing. It's.
(17:49):
Don't just type into chat.Don't just see what X says or you
know, Instagram or whateversocial media platform you're getting
Your information from. Becauseit's generally misinformation and
wrong information anddeliberately set up information for
you to steer you away. So goto primary sources, do some digging.
(18:12):
I like primary sources.
The other thing about it is Iread primary sources. I kept reading
the newspapers of the day. Andprior to the Civil War, the newspapers
were very much like cabletelevision, cable news and social
(18:33):
media. They were all pushingagendas. And you look at that and
you think how that tore usapart as a nation. And you see this
agenda pushing in social mediafor sure. And people get their news
(18:53):
from social media.
Something you have to considerthat this has gone on for a long
time. It's nothing new. Butthat's why we have a brain between
the two ears.
What?
And that's why school isimportant and not just let you know
it be poured in. But you thinkabout those things that you inquire
about those things that youinvestigate those things. It's very
(19:14):
important that you. You learnthose things when you say that.
When I was in St. Louis publicgrade school, we had to read the
newspaper every day. And wewere required to report in eighth
grade on the newspaper becausethat was part of being a good citizen,
was being able to read thenewspaper. And we also grew up in.
(19:39):
Maybe we grew up in a shortera when there was an attempt at
fair reporting. We had Walter Cronkite.
As I remember though, the St.Louis Globe Democrat was more Republican,
conservative, conservative.And then the Post Dispatch was more
(19:59):
liberal.
Right?
They were. And yet when youlooked at them, the basic facts do
not seem to have varied. Theireditorial page was different. And
then the other thing is whatpeople choose to feature in the news.
You can distort the news byjust what subjects you choose to
(20:25):
cover.
I see.
Or. Or how you report theheadlines. Mark and I have talked
about the inflections that areused when people report the news.
I can make this totally insaneand numb information sound like it's
very important and valuable byhow I inflect things. And it's.
Oh.
Like I would explore theunique character and history of parks
(20:49):
in the St. Louis region in thesecond edition of the St. Louis Parks.
Yeah. You understand what I'm saying?
I love it. No, you'reabsolutely right. You're just right.
Oh, don't tell them that.
Okay.
I'm sorry. Where's that cashregister? Sent.
Stay away from that. Yeah.
This is Arnold Stricker withMark Langston of St. Louis in Tune.
We're talking to Nene Harrisabout the second edition St. Louis
(21:12):
Parks. And we Just really aregetting into the book now. We actually
were just cracking the bookright now because we've been talking
about a lot of differentthings. Nene, why the second edition?
Because we needed it.
Why did we need it?
We saw sold out the first longago and people have been saying to
(21:32):
me personally we need to dothis. And I've expanded it and our
situation has changed. Now wehave the only national park in a
city, in a core of a city inthe United States.
(21:53):
Wow.
The Gateway Arch national parkis it folks. And it's so extraordinary.
And we as a community haveinvested so much in it since the
first edition. We have allthis development that started with
(22:14):
the great River Greenwood andall in 2000. That was only 2000.
Wow.
That we passed that tax. Andnow we are hooking together parks
in the city, the county and tooutlying areas. We are in lush area
(22:37):
in parks. It drives me crazythat I bring people from out of town
or I get contacted people outof town. One is C. St. Louis and
in a couple hours I show themthe first park west of the Mississippi
which has been beautifullyrestored. Lafayette Square, Lafayette
(23:00):
Park. I take them to thefinest Victorian park in the nation,
Taro Grove Park. And we go toForest park, which is an urban jewel
and it's the stellar urbanpark in the entire nation. Now, with
all the work done, we can dothat in two hours. They are utterly
(23:25):
dumbfounded. And you canbarely get people from St. Louis
county to come across the citylimits and see any of this. That's
why we have to do this. Wehave to get out there that we have
all these shared treasures andwe are a rich city. Yes, we're broke,
okay? Financially, we'rebroke. We are rich in our heritage
(23:49):
and we heritage of landscapes,of neighborhoods, of cultural institutions.
And in the last 50 years we'vedeveloped thanks to many wonderful
St. Louisans and thenfoundations like the Open Space Council
and all. We've turned placesthat were forgotten and being polluted
(24:16):
and used in as dumps intobeautiful state parks that ring our
metro area. Now you can't.We're so rich and people just don't
realize it.
And folks, it's important tonote that these parks she's talking
about are in St. Louis City,St. Louis county and in the state.
(24:38):
And that's what the bookcovers. It covers city parks, county
parks and state parks that arelocated fairly close to the St. Louis
metropolitan area. And I knowthat one park you mentioned that
was a dump. Matter of fact, Iused to take my bike to various parks
and ride around them and finda spot that I thought was really
cool. And all these, Ishouldn't say all these parks I've
(25:00):
done that with, but Crondeletpark and Forest park and the one
park out in Pacific northwhere Russell Bliss did his Route
66. Yeah, Route 66 part. Yeah.You can ride around there. See the
Deer Time speech, Times Beach.That's what it was. And just marvelous
kinds of things. So we'regoing to delve back into this and
because we need to answer thequestions about the Real Housewives
(25:21):
of Jefferson county and alsothe road that was designed, I should
say the street that wasdesigned to connect these parks together,
which I was like, holy smokes.I didn't know about that. But yeah.
More on St. Louis and tuneafter this. This is Arnold Strucker
with Mark Langston of St.Louis and Tune. Don't go away. As
(25:44):
strange as it may sound, atBetter Rate Mortgage we love talking
to people about mortgages.Everyone in St. Louis promises a
better mortgage rate. But whatyou really need to turn that perfect
house into your dream home isa better mortgage. At Better Rate
Mortgage, we open the door toso much more. So where are you in
the home buying process?Researching, maybe wondering how
much you can afford? Househunting? Get a pre approval from
Better Rate Mortgage Ready tobuy. Our team is ready to make your
(26:06):
mortgage process fast andeasy, whether you're purchasing your
first home or taking cash outto make your dream home even dreamier.
Our door is open. Come on inand get started. Today. We'll show
you how. Call Sean directly at314-375-3293 or online@betterratemortgage.com
Remember, at Better RateMortgage, a better rate is just the
beginning.Betterratemortgage.com and MLS ID
(26:27):
401335 and equal housinglender this is Arnold Stricker of
St. Louis in tune on behalf ofthe Dred Scott Heritage Foundation.
In 1857, the Dred Scottdecision was a major legal event
and catalyst that contributedto the Civil War. The decision declared
that Dred Scott could not befree because he was not a citizen.
The 14th Amendment, alsocalled the Dred Scott Amendment,
(26:48):
granted citizenship to allborn or or naturalized here in our
country and was intended tooverturn the US Supreme Court decision
on July 9, 1868. The DredScott Heritage foundation is requesting
a commemorative stamp to beissued from the US Postal Service
to recognize and remember theheritage of this amendment by issuing
a stamp with the likeness ofthe man Dred Scott, but we need your
(27:10):
support and the support ofthousands of people who would like
to see this happen. To achievethis goal, we ask you to download,
sign and and share the onepage petition with others. To find
the petition, please go todredscottlives.org and click on the
Dred Scott petition drive onthe right side of the page. On behalf
of the Dred Scott Heritagefoundation, this has been Arnold
Stricker of St. Louis in tune.
(27:33):
Aren't they wonderful?
We're back.
We've been talking.
I know. Yakking.
We've been yakking away. Thisis Arnold Stricker with Mark Langston
of St. Louis and Tune, theyackers extraordinaire. And we have
Nene Harris. She's an authorand historian and she's in studio
to talk about the updatedbook, second edition St. Louis Parks
(27:55):
that she did with EslieHamilton. Yeah, he would have joined
us, but he's gallivantingaround Europe right now.
That's what I wanted to askabout. Eslie Hamilton. Did. Did he
help you with you?
I'm jealous. Like, Matt.Gallivanting is the perfect. That's
what Eslie is doing.
Did he help you on the firstedition of this?
He did the county parks, I didthe city parks. He worked for St.
(28:20):
Louis County Parks for decades.
Yes, he did.
And he did the county parks. Idid the city, and then I did the
state parks around it. And ofcourse, I got to do our wonderful
Gateway Arch national park.
Wow. Okay. All right. He owesus money.
Yeah.
I'm just saying.
I'm sure he's spending it in Germany.
So while we're talking aboutcounty parks, Jefferson Barracks
park, that's another greatone. I would ride around Mark, and
(28:42):
there's a wonderful lookoutpoint that they really need to cut
the trees, but the gates forthe old have been moved there.
Yeah.
Oh, is that right?
Oh, decades ago. And what issuch a beautiful place, but what
(29:05):
has been forgotten right nowis its remarkable history. And we've
lost the World War IIgeneration. And as long as they were
alive, the stories of whathappened there were kept alive. And
now people go and enjoy thatbeautiful place, and they don't realize
(29:30):
it was started in 1826 as thefurthest west army barracks to secure
the frontier, whatever thefrontier was, because the frontier
was in constant movement forthe west. And first, the first fort
or barracks was FortBellefontaine, which is now a gorgeous
(29:55):
park in north County. And theydecided that park was too prone to
creating an environment fordisease. They had a Lot of mosquitoes
and there were lots ofmalarias. But it's just a beautiful
landscape. And this is atwist. Coldwater Creek ran into the
(30:19):
river that had a view of theMissouri river. So in 1826 they closed
Fort Bellefontaine on thenorth side to the north of St. Louis
and. And opened up JeffersonBarracks as the military post south
of St. Louis. So it's therethat the Dragoons are the first cavalry
(30:44):
was established permanentcavalry in the U.S. army. It was
there that the first at leastsuccessful parachute jump happened
from a plane. It was atJefferson Barracks. And a number
of the buildings are stillthere. A lot of them we will not
(31:04):
see because there is aMissouri National Guard post there.
And so that's all secure. Butaround it is wonderful parkland.
And several of the buildingsfrom the barracks are open to the
public as museums and theirtreasures. And the landscape is unbelievable.
(31:29):
But if you know the tens ofthousands of. Of soldiers of all
these different eras werethere. It was open until 1946 that
their military careers beganor ended there with a streetcar ride
to Jefferson Barracks.
Now correct me if I'm wrong,Ulysses Grant was stationed there.
(31:52):
Robert E. Lee.
That's right. And Bragg,Jefferson Davis, George McClellan.
Was he there? Not McClellan.
You know what? Longstreet was.Okay, Long street was. And many of
these fellows knew oneanother. There are met their beloveds
there. Even Eisenhower gottied there because Eisenhower had
(32:15):
gone to work for a few yearsafter high school, decided he wanted
to go to the military academy.And he came to St. Louis to Jefferson
Barracks to take theexamination. In the 1930s the commander
was a Lieutenant ColonelWalter Kruger. And this is wild.
(32:39):
He was an immigrant and hecame from Germany with his mother
when he was about 8. And heenters the US army at age 17, is
the first private to become a general.
Wow.
(32:59):
Enters as a private, becomes ageneral eventually. 4 stars. He is
the mastermind and the leaderbehind the Philippines campaign.
He was on the front page orcover of time magazine in 1945. And
in 1932-34 he was commanderJefferson Barracks.
(33:23):
And.
And he's one of the peoplewho's been basically forgotten. People
remember MacArthur. Thisfella, he was a remarkable leader
in so many ways.
What was his name again?
Walter Kruger.
K R U E G E R. Yeah. Okay.
Isn't that amazing? And peopledon't never heard of it. I didn't
(33:48):
know. I didn't know about himuntil I'm reading about this Walter
Kruger.
And do you know him, Mark?
No, but I think A lot ofpeople when they talk about Jefferson
Barracks, they think of thecemetery. They don't.
That's right. They don't evenknow there's hundreds of acres of
park.
I was just trying to look upand see how many, how big that Jefferson
Barracks is.
I can't tell. Oh, it's over400 acres of parkland. Then you've
(34:11):
got the grounds that. Okay,1700 acres were set aside for the
park.
Okay.
Or not the park and for the barracks.
Okay.
Some of that land is thecemetery, some is where the VA hospital
is and some is the parkland.
(34:33):
And so many people just thinkit's the cemetery.
Yeah, yeah.
They hear it over people downthere. They are familiar with it
because there's concerts downthere. They have an amphitheater
down there and have concertsregularly down there.
They know it as a of partpark. They do not understand, comprehend
its history. And I would, Icould study forever and not comprehend
(34:58):
its history. It's just sorich. It's in St. Louis County. It
is the most important historicsite in St. Louis County.
Wow.
Now in the city is the archgrounds for the whole region. That
piece of ground that is now anational park was the soul mart for
(35:23):
such a vast territory. Thereis nothing like it in the history
of the world that such a smallpiece of ground was the place where
all the expeditions, theexplorations, the groups going out
to settle and all the goodsall went through that national park
(35:46):
site. And there is no otherplace where so much went through
for such a large area. Sowe've got the national park downtown
and then we've got theseincredible ribbon of parkway leading
west. And if you, if, when yougo to a baseball game or anything,
(36:13):
take a walk, go early andspend time in City Garden.
It's a gorgeous park.
Oh, we have world classsculptures in there, things that
are in museum in Europe. Wehave in this park space and we have
(36:35):
these fabulous plantings thatare native, that are plantings that
will thrive in ourenvironment. And it's just an incredible
place. And it's part of thisribbon of parkway that is coming
along that only takes 100years to do, but that's how it is.
(36:58):
But that's how cities do nothappen overnight. Great things do
not happen like that. Thisplan was first back in 1907 to have
a ribbon of parkway from theriver west all the way to what's
(37:19):
now St. Louis University. Andnow we have this plaza with the fountains
in front of Union Station.That part of it ends with this wonderful
stadium. Our soccer Stadium.And then we're going to have the
greenway continuing on to St.Louis very shortly, if the foundry
(37:41):
in that area. So we're reallycarrying out our Civic Plan of 1907.
So talk about the North SouthConnector that connected parks, which
I didn't know about this one.This is cool.
So our city grew, like, out ofa hub of a wheel, which was downtown,
which is now downtown. For 100years, downtown was almost all of
(38:05):
St. Louis. But then it grewout along spokes, and those spokes
were like Broadway and oliveand South Broadway and gravois. So
it's growing out spokes, andyou have different things developing
along those spokes. You alsohave that old creek bed that then
(38:30):
becomes the rail beds, and therails divide north and south. So
even like with Germancommunities, you'll find there is
a German community north,there's a German community south.
They had complementary. Arethe same cultural organizations.
(38:52):
You'd have one north, onesouth because you couldn't get there
from here. So in 1907, theidea of the King's highway boulevard
system is developed to tietogether mostly uses of parks and
(39:13):
by creating more parks andribbons of parkways that would hook
together the area. Weattribute the division between north
and south to ethnicbackgrounds and race and all this
stuff. It was physicalbarriers that existed from our very
(39:35):
terrain and the railroadsfollowing the terrain. So what they
did is we had beautifulCarondelet park on the south, beautiful
o' Fallon park on the north,and mid or west, we had Forest park,
(39:57):
magnificent park, and TaroGrove Park. Taro Grove park, its
western border was KingsHighway, Forest park, its eastern
border was Kings Highway. Andthen they put through. They straightened
out and put viaducts on Kingshighway and parkland like Penrose
(40:18):
park on the north side,Christie park on the south. Interesting
along these roads and ribbonsand North Kings highway extended
it with a parkway. South Citywent a parkway, Holly Hills Parkway
along Carondelet park, comeall together and then establish new
(40:42):
Belle Reeve park overlookingthe river. So you could start at
Belle Reeve park and followthese boulevards and parks through
Kings highway and end up in o'Fallon park with an overlook of the
river, because before thehighway, you had great views there.
It's a beautiful plan. Whoscrewed it up was the highway department
(41:08):
in the state of Missouri,which called themselves a highway
department. Yeah, they didn'twant to have anything to do but build
highways. And they cut offBell Reed park from Belle Reed Boulevard,
but most of the systemsintact. They took part of Crondalette
(41:31):
park right they took part ofo' Fallon Park. They took part of
Forest Park. They took part ofCompton Hill Park. Yeah. But it's
an incredible system. And,yeah, we do have those interruptions,
but we've got all the piecesthat. That are just so lovely. We
(41:52):
have. It's an incredible parksystem. If you live here, it's different
than it looks from the outsidebecause what people from other parts
of the metro area do is theyget on a highway and they come through
the city.
Right.
They come through and they goto a destination. They're so shocked
when you get them off thehighway and they figure out that
(42:15):
the hill is right next to TaraGrove park and then there's Shore
to one side and the other sideis Compton Heights. You go down a
beautiful boulevard and youfind you're at Lafayette Park. They
just don't. They. We viewthings. And this isn't just people
here. All over the nation, weview things from the perspective
(42:39):
of highways.
And we do see.
Yeah. How we're knitted together.
I always thought when you lookdown on a map, you know, you've got
Forest park in the middle. Onthe south, you've got Crondalette.
In the north, you've gotFairground. They're like matching
parks.
They were.
Yeah.
They were thought of that way because.
The places that kind ofoverlook the lakes look identical.
(43:01):
They do. And the lakes werenew. When I say new, those parks
were all established in 1876.The lakes are established in the
1890s. They're dug out. Andthey're dug out in response to the
economic panic of 1893, whichwas horrendous. And a lot of people
(43:22):
were going hungry. And theyprovided work. The Post Dispatch
did it. That's why Forest parkhas the Post Dispatch Lake. They
ran a fun drive.
Okay, that makes sense.
Yeah.
And okay, you find out thesethings on St. Louis in tune, and
especially from our guest,Nini Harris, who's here to talk about
(43:43):
St. Louis parks. And that'swhat we've been talking about. Now,
I did mention a couple times.Go ahead. The Real Housewives of
Jefferson county saved a park.And I'm not talking recently.
Yeah.
And I'm just kidding with theReal Housewives of Jefferson county,
but. Housewives of JeffersonCounty. Yeah. And they were the real
ones.
I know.
They saved. What did theysave, Nene?
(44:04):
What Saved Mastodon. And it'snow technically a historic site,
but they saved it as a park.And we knew.
Did they find dinosaurs there?
Yes.
Mastodon.
Mastodons.
Yeah.
Is that right? They really Did.
Yes.
Back in the early 19thcentury. And everyone knew about
(44:27):
this site, and there were evenexcursions out to it from the World's
Fair to go spend a day atMastodon and see the remains of the
mastodon.
I've never been there. Isn'tthat terrible? I've never. I just
heard the stories.
That just says how rich ourmetro area is, that if we didn't
(44:49):
have so much wonderful stuff,you would be there. But you've got
to spend a lifetime getting everywhere.
Yeah, that's true. That'strue. That's true.
The kids from school would godown there. Plus it was close by,
see the mastodons and learnabout them.
Never did it. I heard stories.Never did.
Well, and we almost lost itall, except for the Real Housewives,
(45:12):
because the highway department.
There we go. The highwaydepartment again.
Yeah, the evil highway department.
Evil.
Evil.
Yes.
They bought up all this land,and the land had been badly damaged
and there were kilns there andstuff. Stuff that they were burning
up bones for lime. Oh, it wasterrible. Oh, horrible things happened.
(45:38):
And the highway departmentbought it because they weren't quite
sure where 55 was going to go.And then when they finished 55, they
had a developer who wanted tobuy that land for a subdivision.
And four housewives gottogether and they got. They were
(45:59):
given an ultimatum. They hadan offer for $568,000 from a developer
and the. Isn't this horrible?
Yeah, so far it sounds terrible.
It is. The highway departmentsays if you can come up with 568,000,
(46:22):
you can have it.
Oh, killing me.
They did it. They wereknocking on doors. They were so determined.
Eventually, a number of peoplewith wealth in St. Louis started
to support them. We have greatrich people in St. Louis. They are
(46:42):
constantly reinvesting in ourcommunity. And in essence, they're
saying we've had good fortuneand they share it. And they started
supporting these women. Theyraised their $568,000, and it's now
a wonderful state historicsite with wonderful trails and an
(47:06):
aviary. And it's so close tothe highway, but you can. The bird
life in it is phenomenal. Andyou can remove yourself to this little
spot. It's wonderful.
So I stand corrected. Itshould be the real four House, Four
Housewives of Jefferson County.
(47:27):
Okay, I'm going to visit it now.
It's a great place.
I'm going to visit it.
You want to? You'll love it.
I will. I'm sure. It soundslike it. Really?
So how many parks really doesthe city of St. Louis have.
It's over 100. And the reasonit's debated is like that ribbon
of parkway downtown, everycouple blocks was renamed in honor
(47:51):
of somebody else. So you couldhave 108 parks. You can have 103
parks is how you count them.But here's the thing. Over 100 parks
and the city is only 61 squaremiles. That shows that dedication
(48:14):
to it is little.
It is.
It's 61.
The school district I used tolive in, I worked in was 120 square
miles.
Wow. And see, that's why we'rechallenged now. You think of it,
we 61 square miles, and almosteverywhere in it is historic. And
(48:40):
we so thank God for familieslike the Taylor family and so many
other wonderful families whogive so much and support our cultural
institutions.
And the county kind of didsome similar things. U city has a
bunch of parks by theirschools. Webster, Maplewood. They
(49:03):
adopted some of the similar kinds.
Of thoughts they did. Themunicipalities. The county as a whole,
though, did not have a parksystem for way long. This is. So
it was explained to me by anarchitect that who. We were just
discussing parks, and Icouldn't understand how we in the
(49:26):
city in 1836 are debatingparks when we have 12,000 people
who are living basically onwhat's now the arch grounds, and
they establish Lafayette parkway out there. And why would you
(49:47):
think on the edge ofwilderness we need to establish a
public park? But that's whatour leaders did in 1836. It's phenomenal.
The county park system doesn'tstart until the new charter and 1950.
And then in 51, they actuallyget the park system set up for the
(50:11):
county as a whole. That thisarchitect said to me, everybody thought
they wouldn't need parks.They're going to move out there and
have big yards and everyonewill have their own big yard with.
They won't need a park.
No.
(50:31):
And they get out there andthey have these big yards, and then
they say, where's our parks?Where's our park? And it was part
of our psyche. We want parks.They're special places.
And one of the things youmention in your book, which I think
is a very valuable statement,which explains some things to me,
(50:52):
is that the parks in thesummertime were used for activities
for youth, to keep them busy,to keep them active, to keep them
engaged in their community andto educate. And in university city,
where Mark and I grew up, samekind of thing. In the summertime,
there was a parks program. Inthe summertime, you would go to the
(51:12):
park. In the summertime theywould take you down to the Heman
pool. You would do some artsand crafts, you would do some games.
There were activities, therewere things for you to do. And that's
one of the benefits I see ofthe city parks in a historical aspect
is there is this vision forjust not a parcel of land, especially
for the summertime. When itgot hot, you could sleep there. But
(51:34):
for the summertime for youthcould go there to have activities.
And that's why they were sopopulated a lot.
And there were two trends inparks and you still see this. And
one is the passive park, whichI love. Belle Reed park is a passive
park. It's a place to look atthe river and Illinois and watch
(51:58):
the barge traffic and imagineMark Twain. Then there are the active
parks or recreation parks. Weestablished lots of those at the
beginning of the 20th century.And there was the idea that within
a half mile, every half mile,you had to have a little park or
(52:20):
playground. So if you go southof Tar Grove park and on Morgan Ford
and just one block east or ahalf a block east, you've got McDonald
park and Playground. It's athree acre park. It's only a half,
it's not even a half mile away.
Wow.
But the kids further southcouldn't walk to Taro Grove Park.
(52:43):
A six year old couldn't. Ifyou look at the map of how they established.
And they would even rentplayground space if they couldn't
buy it. Every half mile a sixyear old could make their way to
a park and they. Of course nowat that time we had the entire population
(53:08):
of the metro area livingwithin the city of St. Louis, except
for a few scattered suburbanearly communities. We had the tax
base to support it and othercities had things like settlement
houses and all our program wasdifferent because our program in
(53:31):
the parks was for the poorestto the wealthiest. They did not.
It was we are all citizens ofSt. Louis and they had muni leagues.
There were activities. Theparks opened, the summer programs
opened the Monday after theschool year ended. And they had the
(53:55):
little wading ponds. Thosewere closed. And yeah, they were
great. But that was pre airconditioning and they were closed
during polio. And so most ofthose have been written out.
So many questions. I say westart a petition to name a park after
Nene.
That would be great. Thatwould be great. I think that's a
(54:16):
great idea. So if you want tolearn more, you can get this book,
it's the St. Louis Parks,second edition. And you can get that@reedypress.com
or you probably get that at alot of bookstores, et cetera, et
cetera. And you've got someplaces where you're going to be signing
books and you're going to bevisiting Carondelet historical society
(54:37):
on June 14th. Oh, that'salready passed Lafayette Square.
Lafayette Square.
Lafayette Park. I'll be there.October 12th, Sunday afternoon in
the pavilion, giving a programshowing the evolution of city parks.
There you go. October 12th atLafayette Park. I didn't even know
what day it was or what monthit was.
I know. We didn't even get totalk about Benton park. And if they're
(55:00):
going to get water back.
Yeah. Or fill in the caveunderneath. I know.
Filling the cave. I don't knowwhat they should do with that thing.
I know. There's so manyquestions we have and.
We ran out of time for Are.
You going to come back soon?
Days of the day. Mental floss.
We've got very little lefthere. Gosh, I don't know.
Nene, thanks for coming backagain. You're always welcome.
It's my pleasure. It is my pleasure.
(55:21):
We need to continue to pickher brain and just to talk about
St. Louis history.
So much fun.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah. This hour has flown by.
It really has. It really has.
It has.
Thank you.
Oh, thank you.
That's all for this hour,folks. We thank you for listening.
If you've enjoyed thisepisode, you can listen to additional
shows@stluntune.com. considerleaving a review on our website,
(55:43):
Apple Podcast, Podchaser, oryour preferred podcast platform.
Your feedback helps us reachmore listeners and continue to grow.
Thank you to Bob Berthicel forour theme music, thank you to our
sponsor, Better Rate Mortgage,thank you to our guest, Nene Harris,
and a special thanks to cohost Mark Langston. And folks, we
thank you for being a part ofour community of curious minds. St.
(56:03):
Louis in tune is a productionof Motif Media Group and the US Radio
Network. Remember to keepseeking, keep learning, walk worthy,
and let your light shine. ForSt. Louis in tune, I'm Arnold Stricker.
Sam.
We love parks here at St.Louis and Thune, and I'm sure that
you love parks, too, becausethey're a great place for recreation,
for a picnic or just bicyclingor walking. But did you know the
park that was saved by theReal Housewives of Jefferson County?
Do you know the park that wasa hospital for Union soldiers? Do
you know it? Also, that samepark hosted the 1946 U.S. olympic
(00:23):
water polo team tryouts andalso a 2005 movie. We're going to
talk to the author of St.Louis Parks, whose great, great grandfather's
first job in St. Louis in 1864was planting trees in the St. Louis
park. All this on St. Louis inTune. Welcome to St. Louis in Tune,
(00:53):
and thank you for joining usfor fresh perspectives on issues
and events with experts,community leaders and and everyday
people who make a differencein shaping our society and world.
I'm Arnold Stricker, alongwith Marcus Langstonis, AKA Mark
Langston.
Mark, Howdy.
Greetings to you, sir.
Greetings to you. You'relooking good. You're looking chipper.
(01:13):
I appreciate that.
Yeah. Got a little spring inyour step today.
Yes. I haven't been putthrough the chipper, but I do look
that way.
It's terrible. Terrible. Okay. Yeah.
Anyway, Friday the 13th.
Really? Oh, man. The TexasChainsaw Massacre. Oh, my God, there's
another one. Oh, that was abad one. So that when I was a kid,
(01:36):
it did damage me.
That explains it.
That's right.
Oh, folks, we're glad thatyou've joined us today. We want to
thank our sponsor, Better RateMortgage, for their support of the
show. You can listen toprevious shows@stl and tune.com.
please help us continue togrow by leaving a review on our website,
Apple Podcast, or yourpreferred podcast platform. Our thought
(01:57):
to ponder today, opportunitiesare usually disguised as hard work,
so most people don't recognizethem. Such truth opportunities are
usually disguised as hardwork, so most people don't recognize
them. Ann Lander said that.
Is that right? No problems,just challenges and opportunities.
(02:21):
Yeah. If you think about it,when somebody starts something and
they're really working hardand maybe they're on a job, an entry
job, and they're working hard,the foreman or the boss many times
recognizes people thatactually work rather than skate.
What a concept. Working. Okay. Yeah.
(02:41):
And if you want to go far andyou're a youngster listening to the
program, work hard and whatyou do, the very best, you can, show
up ahead of time.
Oh, isn't that the truth?
Remember, we had that saying,what Is it?
Go ahead.
Early's on time on times.Late's unforgivable.
There you go. Yes. So true, sotrue, so true.
(03:02):
Something to do.
Come across it too many timesin the last couple weeks too. Oh,
yeah.
Something to talk about afterthe show.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's,let's slander people. I'm kidding,
just kidding.
Oh, we don't want to slanderour guest because she is like the
St. Louis historian atextraordinaire. Nene Harris has been
(03:24):
on the show many times andshe's an author of these new second
edition St. Louis Parks. Sheand Eslee Hamilton co authored this
book. Nene, welcome back toSt. Louis in Tune.
It is my pleasure to be here,but I love your statements about
being early who worked likethat with Stan Musial and what a
(03:49):
success he was. And he grew upvery poor. They really were in desperate
straits. Both his parents wereworking, but it was just times were
hard and he just worked sohard at everything he did and was
so successful. And he said mylife's a fairy tale. That's how he
(04:13):
looked at it. Instead of thehardship of how hard he worked, he
said it was a fairy tale.
But I think that's aperspective that you get maybe from
your upbringing or maybeschool or someone, a mentor who is
an influence could be aneighbor. And I sense that from you
too, because you have justjumped into the waters of historical
(04:38):
St. Louis and are just, you'renot floundering around. You are swimming
variety of strok. You do toursdowntown. You go to the Central Library
and Missouri HistoricalSociety and do research. And you,
what Is this your ninth, tenth book?
20Th. Wow.
(05:01):
You're.
Well, let's go back. This isyour 20th book?
Yeah. I've done institutionalhistories and all that are parts
of St. Louis history. It's allthis city is just a phenomenal place
that has such a layered, richstory. I visit so many places where
(05:29):
you visit the historic siteand you get a sense that they were
important at one time in theirhistory. And here we just keep layering
on more stories ofimmigration, of the Civil War, of
(05:51):
the expansion west, to whathappened in the 20th century with
the waves of immigrantsbecoming Americans and using their
industrial might. And they hada powerful might in just their hard
work in building this greatcity and then in defeating the fascist
(06:18):
in World War II. Who did that?It was people on Washington Avenue
who were making uniforms andboots or they were making Red Cross
tents in the mart buildingnext to City Hall. And this is just
a great place to studyhistory. And we have great people,
(06:40):
we always have great leaders.
And you're someone who findsout or knows that information and
you just don't keep it toyourself. You put it in the form
of some books. And this is thesecond edition by Reedy Press. And
I think what's great aboutthat is unless that information is
communicated and it gets lost.
(07:03):
First we have to document. Andthat is something that people are
not doing today. They don'tdig for answers. Dig for primary
sources. We are still arelatively young city. We can find
primary sources.
(07:25):
And when you say primarysources, define that for some people
who may not be keeping historyon their own.
Yeah. Do it for me, will you?
It's like finding. Say you'restudying the Civil War. There's so
much myth about St. Louis andthe Civil War era.
Yeah.
(07:45):
You go to letters that werewritten to family members. Then you
go to the newspapers and seewhere. What the people were reading
that day. I went to the censusrecords and just read entry after
entry of who was living whereand figuring out what languages you
(08:10):
would hear on the streets. Isthat first person that account from
the day from the action. Andfor instance, I did a book on the
Civil War in St. Louis. Whatit was like to live in St. Louis
during the Civil War. And Idid it because I was so frustrated
(08:33):
with hearing people with allthese ideas about it didn't who had
never looked at a primarysource give.
Us an example of something youheard that you knew was not correct
and then you may be correctedbecause of the primary sources that
you had investigated.
With the Civil War, it wasthat we really were a union city.
(09:00):
There was leadership andlongtime St. Louisans who were associated
with the south, particularlyeconomically. But we had a population
of 160,000. This. Now thisreally applies today. We had a population
(09:22):
of 160,000 people. 60,000 wereborn in Germany.
Wow.
40,000 were born. Are notquite 40,000. 39,000 and something
were born in Ireland. We werea foreign city. Aliens built this
(09:45):
city. Wow. That. And thatdoesn't include. I found lots of
people born in Bohemia. Wellover 2000. That's why I was reading
entries. That's how itstarted. Because Bohemians weren't
counted as Bohemians. Theywere tossed in with the Austrian
(10:07):
Empire. And I wanted to findhow many were born in Bohemia. So
I. I'd read all the entrieslooking for born in Prague. And it
would say Prague and then belisted as Austria. But it was what
became Czechoslovakia. Now theCzech Republic. There were 300 people
born in Poland. There were 300people from Switzerland who lived
(10:33):
on Gravoj, very close to here,very close to the studio. There were
300 Swiss born St. Louis, whowere dairy farmers over where St.
Francis de Sales is now. Okay,that's primary source. Reading the
(10:57):
documents of the day. Now,sometimes primary sources do not
become available till later onbecause some primary sources are
top secret. Like growing upwhere I always lived in south St.
Louis, you knew the Battle ofthe Bulge was terrible because you'd
(11:20):
hear conversations of peoplesaying about our parents generation,
talking of a brother or anuncle who had frozen and. And they
thawed him out and sent himback to the front. I met people who
were in boot camp, and bootcamp was cut short so they could
(11:42):
ship them out to Europe. Youknew it was horrible. But it wasn't
till years, decades after thewar that the casualties of the Battle
of the Bulge were releasedbecause it was so horrendous that
they felt it was too much forpeople to cope with.
(12:06):
Interesting.
So when I was in high schoolgoing to St. Elizabeth's here, I
used to read the Post Dispatchback pages to read about World War
II, because there they wouldhave little items about things that
were just declassified fromthe war.
Interesting.
Yeah. Sometimes the primarysource comes available later, but
(12:32):
it's a primary source.
Yeah. Now, I know we'resupposed to talk about St. Louis
parks, but you got me on theUnion city Confederate state. Okay.
So since we were mostlyimmigrants with leadership which
had Southern kind ofinfluence, you're saying that we
(12:52):
were more of a Southern city.
We were seen as a Southerncity, but there were all these Germans
who were dedicated to theUnion and dedicated to abolition,
who were living mostly south,but a lot north of downtown. They
(13:15):
were building communitiesalong the river. And they. They came
here because they believed indemocracy, and they were appalled
at slavery. And I didn'tunderstand how this image of St.
Louis persisted. And yearsago, I was talking to a very fine
(13:39):
historian who was from theeast, and he said, there were no
abolitionists here. And Isaid, they were all alone for St.
Louis. And he. And it came up.This is how I found the definition
they were using of anabolitionist was someone who was
(14:03):
a member of an abolitionistsociety or subscribed to an abolitionist
newspaper. They would havebeen in English, the German 60,000
German immigrants who wereorganized and ready to defend this
Union. They weren't members ofthose organizations.
(14:27):
No.
They had their own languageand papers.
That's right. And so this justkind of went under the radar. But
I went to St. Louis PublicGrade School in St. Louis Public
Grade School in eighth grade.We were singing while we were marching
(14:48):
through Georgia. That is oneof the little evidences of that German
community that they fought inthe western armies. They fought with
Grant and then with Shermangoing south and then cutting across
(15:10):
east to the Carolinas. Afterthe war, they got involved with education,
public education. And Even inthe 1960s, 100 years later, we're
singing the songs they wereproud of. I didn't know that everyone
across the country did notsing while we were marching through
(15:32):
Georgia. I found that out thetough way. You didn't sing that.
When I went to college and meta number of singers, Southerners,
I had no idea that we sang itas part of history. We knew in St.
Louis public grade schoolabout that march through Georgia.
Wow.
Isn't that. To me, that's howtied and that's how union this city
(15:58):
was.
Now folks, you understand whywe love to have Nene on and just
have a conversation with her.And we haven't even gotten to the
parks yet, but it's. That'sinformation, Mark. And listeners
that.
Who knew it brings up theMason Dixon line to me. And then
the arsenal, I guess the wholearsenal thing, which I don't know.
(16:21):
If this is all tied in withour parks, though. That's one of
the things that is so strangewhen you're do. When I was doing
park history, how much CivilWar history is tied in with our early
city parks.
Right? Whoa.
And even Lafayette park, ourvery first park west in the Mississippi,
(16:42):
very tied in with the CivilWar used. It was used as a union
camp for union volunteers from Missouri.
Wow.
Not just the lion park next tothe arsenal. It's so closely knit
together. But I'm sorry, I'vegot to tell you about my publisher,
(17:03):
Reedy Press. They published mybook A Most Unsettled State, which
what I did in that book was Iused all first person accounts of
what it was like to live inSt. Louis during the Civil War because
I got so tired of thisinterpretation and reinterpretation
(17:24):
based on other interpretationsand current attitudes. And so I did
this book. They published itand they're in fact they keep having
to republish it becausethere's ongoing demand for it or
reprint it.
Yeah. ReadyPress.com r e e d ypress.com and that's the thing. It's.
(17:49):
Don't just type into chat.Don't just see what X says or you
know, Instagram or whateversocial media platform you're getting
Your information from. Becauseit's generally misinformation and
wrong information anddeliberately set up information for
you to steer you away. So goto primary sources, do some digging.
(18:12):
I like primary sources.
The other thing about it is Iread primary sources. I kept reading
the newspapers of the day. Andprior to the Civil War, the newspapers
were very much like cabletelevision, cable news and social
(18:33):
media. They were all pushingagendas. And you look at that and
you think how that tore usapart as a nation. And you see this
agenda pushing in social mediafor sure. And people get their news
(18:53):
from social media.
Something you have to considerthat this has gone on for a long
time. It's nothing new. Butthat's why we have a brain between
the two ears.
What?
And that's why school isimportant and not just let you know
it be poured in. But you thinkabout those things that you inquire
about those things that youinvestigate those things. It's very
(19:14):
important that you. You learnthose things when you say that.
When I was in St. Louis publicgrade school, we had to read the
newspaper every day. And wewere required to report in eighth
grade on the newspaper becausethat was part of being a good citizen,
was being able to read thenewspaper. And we also grew up in.
(19:39):
Maybe we grew up in a shortera when there was an attempt at
fair reporting. We had Walter Cronkite.
As I remember though, the St.Louis Globe Democrat was more Republican,
conservative, conservative.And then the Post Dispatch was more
(19:59):
liberal.
Right?
They were. And yet when youlooked at them, the basic facts do
not seem to have varied. Theireditorial page was different. And
then the other thing is whatpeople choose to feature in the news.
You can distort the news byjust what subjects you choose to
(20:25):
cover.
I see.
Or. Or how you report theheadlines. Mark and I have talked
about the inflections that areused when people report the news.
I can make this totally insaneand numb information sound like it's
very important and valuable byhow I inflect things. And it's.
Oh.
Like I would explore theunique character and history of parks
(20:49):
in the St. Louis region in thesecond edition of the St. Louis Parks.
Yeah. You understand what I'm saying?
I love it. No, you'reabsolutely right. You're just right.
Oh, don't tell them that.
Okay.
I'm sorry. Where's that cashregister? Sent.
Stay away from that. Yeah.
This is Arnold Stricker withMark Langston of St. Louis in Tune.
We're talking to Nene Harrisabout the second edition St. Louis
(21:12):
Parks. And we Just really aregetting into the book now. We actually
were just cracking the bookright now because we've been talking
about a lot of differentthings. Nene, why the second edition?
Because we needed it.
Why did we need it?
We saw sold out the first longago and people have been saying to
(21:32):
me personally we need to dothis. And I've expanded it and our
situation has changed. Now wehave the only national park in a
city, in a core of a city inthe United States.
(21:53):
Wow.
The Gateway Arch national parkis it folks. And it's so extraordinary.
And we as a community haveinvested so much in it since the
first edition. We have allthis development that started with
(22:14):
the great River Greenwood andall in 2000. That was only 2000.
Wow.
That we passed that tax. Andnow we are hooking together parks
in the city, the county and tooutlying areas. We are in lush area
(22:37):
in parks. It drives me crazythat I bring people from out of town
or I get contacted people outof town. One is C. St. Louis and
in a couple hours I show themthe first park west of the Mississippi
which has been beautifullyrestored. Lafayette Square, Lafayette
(23:00):
Park. I take them to thefinest Victorian park in the nation,
Taro Grove Park. And we go toForest park, which is an urban jewel
and it's the stellar urbanpark in the entire nation. Now, with
all the work done, we can dothat in two hours. They are utterly
(23:25):
dumbfounded. And you canbarely get people from St. Louis
county to come across the citylimits and see any of this. That's
why we have to do this. Wehave to get out there that we have
all these shared treasures andwe are a rich city. Yes, we're broke,
okay? Financially, we'rebroke. We are rich in our heritage
(23:49):
and we heritage of landscapes,of neighborhoods, of cultural institutions.
And in the last 50 years we'vedeveloped thanks to many wonderful
St. Louisans and thenfoundations like the Open Space Council
and all. We've turned placesthat were forgotten and being polluted
(24:16):
and used in as dumps intobeautiful state parks that ring our
metro area. Now you can't.We're so rich and people just don't
realize it.
And folks, it's important tonote that these parks she's talking
about are in St. Louis City,St. Louis county and in the state.
(24:38):
And that's what the bookcovers. It covers city parks, county
parks and state parks that arelocated fairly close to the St. Louis
metropolitan area. And I knowthat one park you mentioned that
was a dump. Matter of fact, Iused to take my bike to various parks
and ride around them and finda spot that I thought was really
cool. And all these, Ishouldn't say all these parks I've
(25:00):
done that with, but Crondeletpark and Forest park and the one
park out in Pacific northwhere Russell Bliss did his Route
66. Yeah, Route 66 part. Yeah.You can ride around there. See the
Deer Time speech, Times Beach.That's what it was. And just marvelous
kinds of things. So we'regoing to delve back into this and
because we need to answer thequestions about the Real Housewives
(25:21):
of Jefferson county and alsothe road that was designed, I should
say the street that wasdesigned to connect these parks together,
which I was like, holy smokes.I didn't know about that. But yeah.
More on St. Louis and tuneafter this. This is Arnold Strucker
with Mark Langston of St.Louis and Tune. Don't go away. As
(25:44):
strange as it may sound, atBetter Rate Mortgage we love talking
to people about mortgages.Everyone in St. Louis promises a
better mortgage rate. But whatyou really need to turn that perfect
house into your dream home isa better mortgage. At Better Rate
Mortgage, we open the door toso much more. So where are you in
the home buying process?Researching, maybe wondering how
much you can afford? Househunting? Get a pre approval from
Better Rate Mortgage Ready tobuy. Our team is ready to make your
(26:06):
mortgage process fast andeasy, whether you're purchasing your
first home or taking cash outto make your dream home even dreamier.
Our door is open. Come on inand get started. Today. We'll show
you how. Call Sean directly at314-375-3293 or online@betterratemortgage.com
Remember, at Better RateMortgage, a better rate is just the
beginning.Betterratemortgage.com and MLS ID
(26:27):
401335 and equal housinglender this is Arnold Stricker of
St. Louis in tune on behalf ofthe Dred Scott Heritage Foundation.
In 1857, the Dred Scottdecision was a major legal event
and catalyst that contributedto the Civil War. The decision declared
that Dred Scott could not befree because he was not a citizen.
The 14th Amendment, alsocalled the Dred Scott Amendment,
(26:48):
granted citizenship to allborn or or naturalized here in our
country and was intended tooverturn the US Supreme Court decision
on July 9, 1868. The DredScott Heritage foundation is requesting
a commemorative stamp to beissued from the US Postal Service
to recognize and remember theheritage of this amendment by issuing
a stamp with the likeness ofthe man Dred Scott, but we need your
(27:10):
support and the support ofthousands of people who would like
to see this happen. To achievethis goal, we ask you to download,
sign and and share the onepage petition with others. To find
the petition, please go todredscottlives.org and click on the
Dred Scott petition drive onthe right side of the page. On behalf
of the Dred Scott Heritagefoundation, this has been Arnold
Stricker of St. Louis in tune.
(27:33):
Aren't they wonderful?
We're back.
We've been talking.
I know. Yakking.
We've been yakking away. Thisis Arnold Stricker with Mark Langston
of St. Louis and Tune, theyackers extraordinaire. And we have
Nene Harris. She's an authorand historian and she's in studio
to talk about the updatedbook, second edition St. Louis Parks
(27:55):
that she did with EslieHamilton. Yeah, he would have joined
us, but he's gallivantingaround Europe right now.
That's what I wanted to askabout. Eslie Hamilton. Did. Did he
help you with you?
I'm jealous. Like, Matt.Gallivanting is the perfect. That's
what Eslie is doing.
Did he help you on the firstedition of this?
He did the county parks, I didthe city parks. He worked for St.
(28:20):
Louis County Parks for decades.
Yes, he did.
And he did the county parks. Idid the city, and then I did the
state parks around it. And ofcourse, I got to do our wonderful
Gateway Arch national park.
Wow. Okay. All right. He owesus money.
Yeah.
I'm just saying.
I'm sure he's spending it in Germany.
So while we're talking aboutcounty parks, Jefferson Barracks
park, that's another greatone. I would ride around Mark, and
(28:42):
there's a wonderful lookoutpoint that they really need to cut
the trees, but the gates forthe old have been moved there.
Yeah.
Oh, is that right?
Oh, decades ago. And what issuch a beautiful place, but what
(29:05):
has been forgotten right nowis its remarkable history. And we've
lost the World War IIgeneration. And as long as they were
alive, the stories of whathappened there were kept alive. And
now people go and enjoy thatbeautiful place, and they don't realize
(29:30):
it was started in 1826 as thefurthest west army barracks to secure
the frontier, whatever thefrontier was, because the frontier
was in constant movement forthe west. And first, the first fort
or barracks was FortBellefontaine, which is now a gorgeous
(29:55):
park in north County. And theydecided that park was too prone to
creating an environment fordisease. They had a Lot of mosquitoes
and there were lots ofmalarias. But it's just a beautiful
landscape. And this is atwist. Coldwater Creek ran into the
(30:19):
river that had a view of theMissouri river. So in 1826 they closed
Fort Bellefontaine on thenorth side to the north of St. Louis
and. And opened up JeffersonBarracks as the military post south
of St. Louis. So it's therethat the Dragoons are the first cavalry
(30:44):
was established permanentcavalry in the U.S. army. It was
there that the first at leastsuccessful parachute jump happened
from a plane. It was atJefferson Barracks. And a number
of the buildings are stillthere. A lot of them we will not
(31:04):
see because there is aMissouri National Guard post there.
And so that's all secure. Butaround it is wonderful parkland.
And several of the buildingsfrom the barracks are open to the
public as museums and theirtreasures. And the landscape is unbelievable.
(31:29):
But if you know the tens ofthousands of. Of soldiers of all
these different eras werethere. It was open until 1946 that
their military careers beganor ended there with a streetcar ride
to Jefferson Barracks.
Now correct me if I'm wrong,Ulysses Grant was stationed there.
(31:52):
Robert E. Lee.
That's right. And Bragg,Jefferson Davis, George McClellan.
Was he there? Not McClellan.
You know what? Longstreet was.Okay, Long street was. And many of
these fellows knew oneanother. There are met their beloveds
there. Even Eisenhower gottied there because Eisenhower had
(32:15):
gone to work for a few yearsafter high school, decided he wanted
to go to the military academy.And he came to St. Louis to Jefferson
Barracks to take theexamination. In the 1930s the commander
was a Lieutenant ColonelWalter Kruger. And this is wild.
(32:39):
He was an immigrant and hecame from Germany with his mother
when he was about 8. And heenters the US army at age 17, is
the first private to become a general.
Wow.
(32:59):
Enters as a private, becomes ageneral eventually. 4 stars. He is
the mastermind and the leaderbehind the Philippines campaign.
He was on the front page orcover of time magazine in 1945. And
in 1932-34 he was commanderJefferson Barracks.
(33:23):
And.
And he's one of the peoplewho's been basically forgotten. People
remember MacArthur. Thisfella, he was a remarkable leader
in so many ways.
What was his name again?
Walter Kruger.
K R U E G E R. Yeah. Okay.
Isn't that amazing? And peopledon't never heard of it. I didn't
(33:48):
know. I didn't know about himuntil I'm reading about this Walter
Kruger.
And do you know him, Mark?
No, but I think A lot ofpeople when they talk about Jefferson
Barracks, they think of thecemetery. They don't.
That's right. They don't evenknow there's hundreds of acres of
park.
I was just trying to look upand see how many, how big that Jefferson
Barracks is.
I can't tell. Oh, it's over400 acres of parkland. Then you've
(34:11):
got the grounds that. Okay,1700 acres were set aside for the
park.
Okay.
Or not the park and for the barracks.
Okay.
Some of that land is thecemetery, some is where the VA hospital
is and some is the parkland.
(34:33):
And so many people just thinkit's the cemetery.
Yeah, yeah.
They hear it over people downthere. They are familiar with it
because there's concerts downthere. They have an amphitheater
down there and have concertsregularly down there.
They know it as a of partpark. They do not understand, comprehend
its history. And I would, Icould study forever and not comprehend
(34:58):
its history. It's just sorich. It's in St. Louis County. It
is the most important historicsite in St. Louis County.
Wow.
Now in the city is the archgrounds for the whole region. That
piece of ground that is now anational park was the soul mart for
(35:23):
such a vast territory. Thereis nothing like it in the history
of the world that such a smallpiece of ground was the place where
all the expeditions, theexplorations, the groups going out
to settle and all the goodsall went through that national park
(35:46):
site. And there is no otherplace where so much went through
for such a large area. Sowe've got the national park downtown
and then we've got theseincredible ribbon of parkway leading
west. And if you, if, when yougo to a baseball game or anything,
(36:13):
take a walk, go early andspend time in City Garden.
It's a gorgeous park.
Oh, we have world classsculptures in there, things that
are in museum in Europe. Wehave in this park space and we have
(36:35):
these fabulous plantings thatare native, that are plantings that
will thrive in ourenvironment. And it's just an incredible
place. And it's part of thisribbon of parkway that is coming
along that only takes 100years to do, but that's how it is.
(36:58):
But that's how cities do nothappen overnight. Great things do
not happen like that. Thisplan was first back in 1907 to have
a ribbon of parkway from theriver west all the way to what's
(37:19):
now St. Louis University. Andnow we have this plaza with the fountains
in front of Union Station.That part of it ends with this wonderful
stadium. Our soccer Stadium.And then we're going to have the
greenway continuing on to St.Louis very shortly, if the foundry
(37:41):
in that area. So we're reallycarrying out our Civic Plan of 1907.
So talk about the North SouthConnector that connected parks, which
I didn't know about this one.This is cool.
So our city grew, like, out ofa hub of a wheel, which was downtown,
which is now downtown. For 100years, downtown was almost all of
(38:05):
St. Louis. But then it grewout along spokes, and those spokes
were like Broadway and oliveand South Broadway and gravois. So
it's growing out spokes, andyou have different things developing
along those spokes. You alsohave that old creek bed that then
(38:30):
becomes the rail beds, and therails divide north and south. So
even like with Germancommunities, you'll find there is
a German community north,there's a German community south.
They had complementary. Arethe same cultural organizations.
(38:52):
You'd have one north, onesouth because you couldn't get there
from here. So in 1907, theidea of the King's highway boulevard
system is developed to tietogether mostly uses of parks and
(39:13):
by creating more parks andribbons of parkways that would hook
together the area. Weattribute the division between north
and south to ethnicbackgrounds and race and all this
stuff. It was physicalbarriers that existed from our very
(39:35):
terrain and the railroadsfollowing the terrain. So what they
did is we had beautifulCarondelet park on the south, beautiful
o' Fallon park on the north,and mid or west, we had Forest park,
(39:57):
magnificent park, and TaroGrove Park. Taro Grove park, its
western border was KingsHighway, Forest park, its eastern
border was Kings Highway. Andthen they put through. They straightened
out and put viaducts on Kingshighway and parkland like Penrose
(40:18):
park on the north side,Christie park on the south. Interesting
along these roads and ribbonsand North Kings highway extended
it with a parkway. South Citywent a parkway, Holly Hills Parkway
along Carondelet park, comeall together and then establish new
(40:42):
Belle Reeve park overlookingthe river. So you could start at
Belle Reeve park and followthese boulevards and parks through
Kings highway and end up in o'Fallon park with an overlook of the
river, because before thehighway, you had great views there.
It's a beautiful plan. Whoscrewed it up was the highway department
(41:08):
in the state of Missouri,which called themselves a highway
department. Yeah, they didn'twant to have anything to do but build
highways. And they cut offBell Reed park from Belle Reed Boulevard,
but most of the systemsintact. They took part of Crondalette
(41:31):
park right they took part ofo' Fallon Park. They took part of
Forest Park. They took part ofCompton Hill Park. Yeah. But it's
an incredible system. And,yeah, we do have those interruptions,
but we've got all the piecesthat. That are just so lovely. We
(41:52):
have. It's an incredible parksystem. If you live here, it's different
than it looks from the outsidebecause what people from other parts
of the metro area do is theyget on a highway and they come through
the city.
Right.
They come through and they goto a destination. They're so shocked
when you get them off thehighway and they figure out that
(42:15):
the hill is right next to TaraGrove park and then there's Shore
to one side and the other sideis Compton Heights. You go down a
beautiful boulevard and youfind you're at Lafayette Park. They
just don't. They. We viewthings. And this isn't just people
here. All over the nation, weview things from the perspective
(42:39):
of highways.
And we do see.
Yeah. How we're knitted together.
I always thought when you lookdown on a map, you know, you've got
Forest park in the middle. Onthe south, you've got Crondalette.
In the north, you've gotFairground. They're like matching
parks.
They were.
Yeah.
They were thought of that way because.
The places that kind ofoverlook the lakes look identical.
(43:01):
They do. And the lakes werenew. When I say new, those parks
were all established in 1876.The lakes are established in the
1890s. They're dug out. Andthey're dug out in response to the
economic panic of 1893, whichwas horrendous. And a lot of people
(43:22):
were going hungry. And theyprovided work. The Post Dispatch
did it. That's why Forest parkhas the Post Dispatch Lake. They
ran a fun drive.
Okay, that makes sense.
Yeah.
And okay, you find out thesethings on St. Louis in tune, and
especially from our guest,Nini Harris, who's here to talk about
(43:43):
St. Louis parks. And that'swhat we've been talking about. Now,
I did mention a couple times.Go ahead. The Real Housewives of
Jefferson county saved a park.And I'm not talking recently.
Yeah.
And I'm just kidding with theReal Housewives of Jefferson county,
but. Housewives of JeffersonCounty. Yeah. And they were the real
ones.
I know.
They saved. What did theysave, Nene?
(44:04):
What Saved Mastodon. And it'snow technically a historic site,
but they saved it as a park.And we knew.
Did they find dinosaurs there?
Yes.
Mastodon.
Mastodons.
Yeah.
Is that right? They really Did.
Yes.
Back in the early 19thcentury. And everyone knew about
(44:27):
this site, and there were evenexcursions out to it from the World's
Fair to go spend a day atMastodon and see the remains of the
mastodon.
I've never been there. Isn'tthat terrible? I've never. I just
heard the stories.
That just says how rich ourmetro area is, that if we didn't
(44:49):
have so much wonderful stuff,you would be there. But you've got
to spend a lifetime getting everywhere.
Yeah, that's true. That'strue. That's true.
The kids from school would godown there. Plus it was close by,
see the mastodons and learnabout them.
Never did it. I heard stories.Never did.
Well, and we almost lost itall, except for the Real Housewives,
(45:12):
because the highway department.
There we go. The highwaydepartment again.
Yeah, the evil highway department.
Evil.
Evil.
Yes.
They bought up all this land,and the land had been badly damaged
and there were kilns there andstuff. Stuff that they were burning
up bones for lime. Oh, it wasterrible. Oh, horrible things happened.
(45:38):
And the highway departmentbought it because they weren't quite
sure where 55 was going to go.And then when they finished 55, they
had a developer who wanted tobuy that land for a subdivision.
And four housewives gottogether and they got. They were
(45:59):
given an ultimatum. They hadan offer for $568,000 from a developer
and the. Isn't this horrible?
Yeah, so far it sounds terrible.
It is. The highway departmentsays if you can come up with 568,000,
(46:22):
you can have it.
Oh, killing me.
They did it. They wereknocking on doors. They were so determined.
Eventually, a number of peoplewith wealth in St. Louis started
to support them. We have greatrich people in St. Louis. They are
(46:42):
constantly reinvesting in ourcommunity. And in essence, they're
saying we've had good fortuneand they share it. And they started
supporting these women. Theyraised their $568,000, and it's now
a wonderful state historicsite with wonderful trails and an
(47:06):
aviary. And it's so close tothe highway, but you can. The bird
life in it is phenomenal. Andyou can remove yourself to this little
spot. It's wonderful.
So I stand corrected. Itshould be the real four House, Four
Housewives of Jefferson County.
(47:27):
Okay, I'm going to visit it now.
It's a great place.
I'm going to visit it.
You want to? You'll love it.
I will. I'm sure. It soundslike it. Really?
So how many parks really doesthe city of St. Louis have.
It's over 100. And the reasonit's debated is like that ribbon
of parkway downtown, everycouple blocks was renamed in honor
(47:51):
of somebody else. So you couldhave 108 parks. You can have 103
parks is how you count them.But here's the thing. Over 100 parks
and the city is only 61 squaremiles. That shows that dedication
(48:14):
to it is little.
It is.
It's 61.
The school district I used tolive in, I worked in was 120 square
miles.
Wow. And see, that's why we'rechallenged now. You think of it,
we 61 square miles, and almosteverywhere in it is historic. And
(48:40):
we so thank God for familieslike the Taylor family and so many
other wonderful families whogive so much and support our cultural
institutions.
And the county kind of didsome similar things. U city has a
bunch of parks by theirschools. Webster, Maplewood. They
(49:03):
adopted some of the similar kinds.
Of thoughts they did. Themunicipalities. The county as a whole,
though, did not have a parksystem for way long. This is. So
it was explained to me by anarchitect that who. We were just
discussing parks, and Icouldn't understand how we in the
(49:26):
city in 1836 are debatingparks when we have 12,000 people
who are living basically onwhat's now the arch grounds, and
they establish Lafayette parkway out there. And why would you
(49:47):
think on the edge ofwilderness we need to establish a
public park? But that's whatour leaders did in 1836. It's phenomenal.
The county park system doesn'tstart until the new charter and 1950.
And then in 51, they actuallyget the park system set up for the
(50:11):
county as a whole. That thisarchitect said to me, everybody thought
they wouldn't need parks.They're going to move out there and
have big yards and everyonewill have their own big yard with.
They won't need a park.
No.
(50:31):
And they get out there andthey have these big yards, and then
they say, where's our parks?Where's our park? And it was part
of our psyche. We want parks.They're special places.
And one of the things youmention in your book, which I think
is a very valuable statement,which explains some things to me,
(50:52):
is that the parks in thesummertime were used for activities
for youth, to keep them busy,to keep them active, to keep them
engaged in their community andto educate. And in university city,
where Mark and I grew up, samekind of thing. In the summertime,
there was a parks program. Inthe summertime, you would go to the
(51:12):
park. In the summertime theywould take you down to the Heman
pool. You would do some artsand crafts, you would do some games.
There were activities, therewere things for you to do. And that's
one of the benefits I see ofthe city parks in a historical aspect
is there is this vision forjust not a parcel of land, especially
for the summertime. When itgot hot, you could sleep there. But
(51:34):
for the summertime for youthcould go there to have activities.
And that's why they were sopopulated a lot.
And there were two trends inparks and you still see this. And
one is the passive park, whichI love. Belle Reed park is a passive
park. It's a place to look atthe river and Illinois and watch
(51:58):
the barge traffic and imagineMark Twain. Then there are the active
parks or recreation parks. Weestablished lots of those at the
beginning of the 20th century.And there was the idea that within
a half mile, every half mile,you had to have a little park or
(52:20):
playground. So if you go southof Tar Grove park and on Morgan Ford
and just one block east or ahalf a block east, you've got McDonald
park and Playground. It's athree acre park. It's only a half,
it's not even a half mile away.
Wow.
But the kids further southcouldn't walk to Taro Grove Park.
(52:43):
A six year old couldn't. Ifyou look at the map of how they established.
And they would even rentplayground space if they couldn't
buy it. Every half mile a sixyear old could make their way to
a park and they. Of course nowat that time we had the entire population
(53:08):
of the metro area livingwithin the city of St. Louis, except
for a few scattered suburbanearly communities. We had the tax
base to support it and othercities had things like settlement
houses and all our program wasdifferent because our program in
(53:31):
the parks was for the poorestto the wealthiest. They did not.
It was we are all citizens ofSt. Louis and they had muni leagues.
There were activities. Theparks opened, the summer programs
opened the Monday after theschool year ended. And they had the
(53:55):
little wading ponds. Thosewere closed. And yeah, they were
great. But that was pre airconditioning and they were closed
during polio. And so most ofthose have been written out.
So many questions. I say westart a petition to name a park after
Nene.
That would be great. Thatwould be great. I think that's a
(54:16):
great idea. So if you want tolearn more, you can get this book,
it's the St. Louis Parks,second edition. And you can get that@reedypress.com
or you probably get that at alot of bookstores, et cetera, et
cetera. And you've got someplaces where you're going to be signing
books and you're going to bevisiting Carondelet historical society
(54:37):
on June 14th. Oh, that'salready passed Lafayette Square.
Lafayette Square.
Lafayette Park. I'll be there.October 12th, Sunday afternoon in
the pavilion, giving a programshowing the evolution of city parks.
There you go. October 12th atLafayette Park. I didn't even know
what day it was or what monthit was.
I know. We didn't even get totalk about Benton park. And if they're
(55:00):
going to get water back.
Yeah. Or fill in the caveunderneath. I know.
Filling the cave. I don't knowwhat they should do with that thing.
I know. There's so manyquestions we have and.
We ran out of time for Are.
You going to come back soon?
Days of the day. Mental floss.
We've got very little lefthere. Gosh, I don't know.
Nene, thanks for coming backagain. You're always welcome.
It's my pleasure. It is my pleasure.
(55:21):
We need to continue to pickher brain and just to talk about
St. Louis history.
So much fun.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah. This hour has flown by.
It really has. It really has.
It has.
Thank you.
Oh, thank you.
That's all for this hour,folks. We thank you for listening.
If you've enjoyed thisepisode, you can listen to additional
shows@stluntune.com. considerleaving a review on our website,
(55:43):
Apple Podcast, Podchaser, oryour preferred podcast platform.
Your feedback helps us reachmore listeners and continue to grow.
Thank you to Bob Berthicel forour theme music, thank you to our
sponsor, Better Rate Mortgage,thank you to our guest, Nene Harris,
and a special thanks to cohost Mark Langston. And folks, we
thank you for being a part ofour community of curious minds. St.
(56:03):
Louis in tune is a productionof Motif Media Group and the US Radio
Network. Remember to keepseeking, keep learning, walk worthy,
and let your light shine. ForSt. Louis in tune, I'm Arnold Stricker.
Sam.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.