October 2, 2025 • 56 mins
In a lively discussion about stuttering, the episode shines a light on the often-overlooked community of individuals who stutter. Our guests, Christine Rose, Jamie Saunders-Anglin, and Molly Porzel, offer a wealth of knowledge and personal anecdotes that enrich the conversation.
- Christine, a seasoned speech-language pathologist, drives home the point that stuttering is not merely a speech problem but a condition with deep-rooted genetic ties. This insight shifts the narrative from one of shame to one of understanding, emphasizing that stuttering is a natural variation rather than a defect.
- Jamie's experiences as a mother of a child who stutters add a poignant layer to the dialogue, as she recounts the challenges and triumphs of her family's journey towards acceptance. Her advocacy led to significant changes, including the introduction of a speech-related medical alert to your driver's license to inform law enforcement and first responders about your stutter, aimed at preventing misunderstandings in high-stress situations, such as encounters with law enforcement.
- Meanwhile, Molly brings in a unique perspective as both a wife and a mother within the stuttering community, discussing the social and emotional impacts on children and the importance of instilling confidence and self-advocacy from a young age.
This episode is a powerful reminder that while stuttering presents challenges, it also fosters resilience, community, and a rich tapestry of human experience.
[00:00] Introduction to Stuttering
[00:48] Welcome to St. Louis in Tune
[02:44] Meet Our Guests
[04:10] Understanding Stuttering
[10:25] Personal Stories and Experiences
[11:56] Support and Advocacy
[21:55] Medical Alert Initiative
[28:58] Brief Break and Sponsor Message
[29:24] Better Rate Mortgage Ad
[30:09] Welcome Core Initiative
[31:01] National Stuttering Association Conference
[36:54] Local Support Groups for Stuttering
[49:51] Mental Floss and Fun Facts
[51:04] National Days and Podcast Information
[53:02] Humorous Jokes and Closing Remarks
Takeaways:
- About 1% of adults stutter in the U.S., which is around 3 million people, wow!
- Stuttering is more common in males than in females, with a ratio of about 4:1.
- There isn't a universal cure for stuttering; it's a complex issue that varies for everyone.
- The National Stuttering Association works hard to reduce stigma and support those who stutter.
- Self-advocacy plays a crucial role for individuals who stutter, helping them communicate their needs better.
- The new medical alert program for driver's licenses helps law enforcement understand stuttering better.
This is Season 8! For more episodes, go to stlintune.com
#stuttering #nationalstutteringassociation #nsa #stutteringsupports #InternationalStutteringAwarenessDay #slp #speechlanguagepathologist
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's estimated about 1% of theadult population stutters, which
equates to almost 3 millionpeople who stutter. In the United
States. Stuttering is aboutthree or four times more common in
males than females. There isno reliable research backed cure
that works consistently overtime and for all people who stutter.
The National Stutteringassociation is committed to enhancing
(00:22):
the lives of people whostutter, educating the public, assisting
speech therapists, championingresearch, and to reducing the stigma
of stuttering. And we're goingto talk to them today on St. Louis
in Tune. Welcome to St. Louisin Tune and thank you for joining
(00:50):
us for fresh perspectives onissues and events with experts, community
leaders and everyday peoplewho make a difference in shaping
our society and world. I'mArnold Stricker along with co host
Mark Langston. Yay. Greetingsto you, Mark.
Greetings to you, Arnold.Great to be with you today.
It's great to be with many people.
I know. I think we're gonnahave a great show.
(01:11):
It's gonna be a wonderfulshow. Something I think people need
to be aware of.
Yeah, I've been very aware. Ihave friends that stutter and. But
I expect I'm gonna learn a lotabout stuttering and I had no idea
there were so many people inthe United States alone that stutter.
So I'm looking forward tohearing what's going on here.
Our guests will speak frompersonal and professional experience
(01:33):
and it's really going to be agreat panel that we have today here.
Mark. Okay, we're glad thatyou've joined us today, folks. We
want you to thank our sponsor,Better Rate Mortgage for their support
of the show. You can listen toprevious shows@stlintune.com please
help us continue to grow byleaving a review on our website.
Apple Podcast or. Or yourpreferred podcast platform. Our thought
(01:54):
to ponder today is that nopessimist ever discovered the secret
of the stars or sailed to anunchartered land or opened a new
doorway for the human spirit.
Okay.
Helen Keller.
Wow. Okay.
Someone who we all. Maybe youdon't know about Helen Keller, folks.
If you don't, there's a greatbook to read on her. But someone
(02:18):
who was blind, who was deaf,and who ended up becoming someone
who was just miraculous in thethings that she was able to do. Check
that out. No pessimist everdiscovered the secret of the stars
or sailed to an uncharteredland or opened a new doorway for
the human spirit. We're goingto open a new doorway for those who
(02:40):
are stuttering in our countryand even around the world. We have
three guests in studio today.Christine Rose is a speech language
pathologist and you will hearSLP maybe in the course of our conversation.
That's a speech languagepathologist. She works as a graduate
clinical instructor at St.Louis University. She co leads a
(03:00):
National Stutteringassociation caregiver virtual support
group with Jamie Saunders. AndJamie Saunders is here. She is a
licensed social worker andparent of a person who stutters.
She was the NSA parent of theyear. She initiated the driver's
license alert, which we'regoing to talk about. Co leads a National
(03:20):
Stuttering associationcaregiver virtual support group with
Christine and JamieSaunders-Anglin. And also we have
Molly Porzel. Is that correct, Molly?
Yep.
And Molly is the wife of aperson who stutters and the mother
of three children, two of whomstutter. She brings a unique perspective
to the stuttering communityand she works as a social emotional
(03:43):
interventionist at anelementary school in the St. Louis
metropolitan area and sheleads the family chapter of the NSA.
Welcome, ladies, to St. Louisin Tune.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
I guess the very firstquestion I have is I'm sure people
have listened to people whohave stuttered, and maybe they don't
(04:04):
really realize that they'velistened to people who have learned
to deal with their stuttering.What exactly is stuttering? Some
people will say it's a varietyof couple things. Let's get some
baseline information for listeners.
Yeah. Do you want me to takewhat is stuttering?
Yep.
Stuttering. They're findingthat stuttering is mostly genetic.
(04:24):
Most stuttering is. Has agenetic basis, and there's lots of
exciting research out thereabout the causes of stuttering. So
there's a lot of reallyimportant information coming out.
But at its core, stuttering isa disfluent speech pattern where
sometimes you get blocks wherethe words just are blocked, either
at the mouth or the larynx andsometimes even down in the lungs.
(04:46):
You can get some tension downthere where you get some blocks and
you just literally cannot getthe word out for a moment, up to
a couple seconds. There's alsorepetitions where you ruh. Repeat
the beginning of a word orthere's prolongations where you might
prolong the sound that you'retrying to say. So at its core, stuttering,
(05:07):
the definition is really justa disfluency in speech. And where
the impact is, we look atfunctional impact, how that impacts
the listener or the speaker,rather, and the listener, for that
matter, but the speaker, theiremotions that are tied to that moment
of stuttering. So as aprofession we've gone three, a whole
(05:30):
circle around where when Ifirst started it was about fixing
the person who stuttered. Itwas fixing. And if you can imagine
that you were genetically madeto stutter and you have the neurology
of a person who stutters, I asa speech therapist and other speech
therapists were asking peopleto do the impossible. And so we weren't
getting any progress. They,the person who stutters was frustrated.
(05:53):
Stuttering is very, it'svariable. There can be weeks where
you don't stutter, there canbe hours where you don't stutter.
And then it's. It happens. Ithappens for a variety of reasons.
And that's one of the mostunsettling parts of having a communication
style like this is thevariability. So our profession was
taking data on a communicationdifference that is variable. So our
(06:17):
data wasn't accurate. We weretrying to fix people who aren't really
broken. It's just thecommunication difference, verbal
diversity. So we've done a360. We're still trying to get the
word out to most SLPs that weare not here to fix. We're here to
support the person'scommunication and allow them to communicate
(06:38):
with as much ease as possible.Looking at that adverse impact, what
is it? The first time Istuttered, how did my parents react?
The second time I stuttered,did someone react a different way?
And then trying to keep thoseyounger generation, which is why
I think our family's chaptersand our parents chapters are so important
is to let the parents of youngpeople know that it is absolutely
(07:01):
okay to stutter. A lot oftimes people, there are a large number
of preschoolers who outgrowit. But for those who aren't going
to outgrow it, setting thatfoundation that stuttering is okay
and that we're listening butwe can provide you some tools and
strategies to help with thatease. But also just reiterating that
(07:25):
to self advocate to the peoplethat you're talking to. You might
hear me stutter and it's okay,just give me an extra time or two.
And you mentioned that this isa, it's really a physiological kind
of thing.
I was not aware of that.
Yeah. So it's.
I don't know what I thought itwas. I don't know if I ever gave
it much thought, but I reallydidn't. But learning that it's a
(07:46):
physiological kind.
Of thing and a genetic factortoo in this. Yeah, we're going to
get into that with our Guestshere. Yeah. So the breathing, is
that more of a neurologicalkind of thing where there's this
disconnect between breathingand the speech and the mind initiating
all of this stuff?
Yeah, it can be that they'refinding more and more genes all the
(08:09):
time. They did a veryfascinating. Dennis. Dr. Dennis Rena
did a fascinating study wherehe took. He isolated some genes and
they inserted those genes intomice and these little. You think,
how could mice tell usanything about stuttering? But they
had these little mice havethese little pup isolation calls,
and they were able to mimicwhat it is, what, what it like the
(08:33):
pattern of a stutter and tofigure out which genes are involved.
So from that is sprung a lotof research into the neurological
differences. And thosedifferences are in different cells.
There's a cell called theastrocytes. So when I'm working with
kids, and astro means star, sowhen I'm working with young people
or even adults, I'm like,let's talk about the stars in your
(08:54):
brain and how those might beunique to you as a communication
person. And that just leadsdown the road of so many fun and
exciting adventures. Talkingabout, like, we were just talking
about Darth Vader, the personwho played Darth Vader as a person
who stutters. So we talkabout. He was in the stars in Star
Wars. And so thoseneurological differences do impact
(09:15):
the motor planning for speech.So it's. They talk about demands
and capacities. So people whostutter might have a different capacity
when the language demand ishigher. So when children are learning
to talk, we think about thatage explosion when they're like two
to six, when they're learningfrom one word to two words to big
(09:39):
sentences, and watching thesocial communication and learning
all these words. And that'swhen we see stuttering start for
most people, because whenthey're saying like one word at a
time, two word at a time,three word at a time, the motor planning
is coming pretty naturally.But when a person who stutters, whose
neurology and genetics arethere to my predict that they're
(10:03):
going to be a person whostutters when they start putting
all of those pieces together,it's the motor planning and the action
of doing all of that to kindof like a.
That misses like the sparkplugs are missing a little bit. So
the. It's just not flowing.
Yeah, yeah.
The demand overloads thecapacity. Fluent speed. Yeah.
I have so many questions.
(10:23):
Well, fire away with I don't know.
Mel Tillis is back. In myyears of country radio, I got to
know Mel Tillis real well.
Wow.
And he really stutters.
He's a very good stutterer.
I know. Really, you sit downwith Mel and try to talk, and it's.
It's a struggle, I think, forMel sometimes, But he sings perfect.
(10:45):
And it just always boggled mymind how he. He's a really pet stutterer.
I don't know how else todescribe it, but he certainly sings
really well. Or dead. I don'tthink he's singing much anymore.
I have a semi answer as a. Anamateur slp, okay. Is that music
is in a different portion ofthe brain. And so thus, it's not
(11:07):
going through that sectionthat speech is going through. It's
going through a differentportion of the brain. That's why
singing.
Okay.
He could sing without stuttering.
Yeah, go. You got it. You got it.
Wow.
Different parts of the brain.
As a former musician, I couldsay yes.
So you're leaving us here inradio and going with them, work with
them for a while.
But that's a great point,though, Mark.
(11:28):
I know. And if. I guess if youknew Mel Tillis, like I've had an
opportunity to know, you'dsay, wow, he is. And I'm not trying
to say anything about Melother than he really struggles talking,
carrying on a conversation.It's really a struggle with Mel.
I think that shows the varietyof the depth of this particular issue.
Some people, it's just a minorkind of thing. Some people, it's
(11:50):
a major kind of deal, but itimpacts them emotionally and dealing
in social situations. We'regoing to talk about that in a second.
But I wanted to go to Jamieand ask you, how did you get involved
working in this virtualsupport group with Christine? How
did you get involved with thenational group?
I met Christine through CityGarden, Montessori. My daughter was
(12:13):
attending school there. Andduring the pandemic, her stuttering
increased. And so I reachedout. The school had just transitioned
into a different speechprogram. And I said this zoom speech
therapy is not working. Weneed to find another way. Her IEP
(12:33):
says we have to provide speechtherapy to her in an environment
that best fits the child inthe situation. So Chris came to the
house, sat outside.
Wow.
During the pandemic. And gotme and my daughter through Covid.
And I learned so much. Mydaughter had been diagnosed, probably
(12:57):
was first grade. And ofcourse, the wonderful SLP at the
school said, it'sdevelopmental, it will go away. She's
10 and still studying.
Wow.
It did not go away. So Chrisgave me an education. Like, she's
doing here today about what Icould do to help Octavia become not
(13:18):
less not fluent, but acceptwho she is and be confident in her
stutter.
Stuttering, being confident inyourself is a huge thing. And when
you have those kind ofimpediments, whether it's a physical
impediment or mental or speechimpediment or something that just
impacts you completely.
So to answer your question,how I got here, yeah, I was blown
(13:41):
away. I was like, there has tobe other parents out here dealing
with the same problem. I. Ireally needed the support. It was
about me finding my people andso we could sit down and talk about
our children who have thisunique gift. So I searched just like
(14:02):
you did my research, and Ifound the National Stuttering association.
And I did the emails, made thecalls, and I said, I see on your
website that you have groupsthat you start locally. So there
was an adult chapter here. SoI called the adult chapter leader
and I said, do you haveanything for parents? She said, no,
we don't have anything forparents. So I said, okay, let's go.
(14:26):
There you are.
So I said, chris, I'm going toreach out to the National Stuttering
association and start thisvirtual group. And it went on from
there.
That's great. That's great.And you went on to be the National
Stuttering association parentof the year, right?
Yes, they gave me an award. I was.
(14:46):
So the fact that you initiatedto get that going where there wasn't
a group that's worthy ofgetting that honor.
Thank you. Thank you. But I doit because, number one, I love my
daughter, and number two, I'ma social worker and my career, and
helping people is what I do.
That's great. That's great.Molly, you probably deal with kids
(15:08):
where you're working, and partof that we've touched a little bit
on is the social emotionalfactor that as I was watching a video
that they have on the website,folks, and by the website, the website
is W e S T u t t e r.org westutter.org and that video was. I
(15:30):
was blown away that people,when they were able to get around
other folks who had the sameissue, they were like, it's, I'm
okay. There's nothing wrongwith me. How do you deal with kids
who are just coming in andstruggling with all these things?
I take a lot of myprofessional work and I apply that
to the NSA as one naturallydoes. And so I actually ran a session
(15:55):
at this past conference thissummer, and it was entirely focused
on, like, self Advocacy. Sowhere Chris talked about that feeling
of your voice matters and youcan stand up for yourself because
I think a lot of the emotionalstruggle comes from what's happening
underneath. It's that feelingof, I want to say this, but nobody's
going to listen. I want to saythis, but I'm going to be interrupted.
(16:17):
And so to avoid all of thosenegative feelings that are going
to come from being overlookedand interrupted, I'm just not going
to say anything at all. Andthen I'm going to feel bad because
I didn't say what I wanted tosay. So it's really, I think that
piece of self advocacy is soimportant of people are going to
listen and if they're not, youcan make them listen. Like you can
(16:38):
say, what I have to say isimportant. And having two little
kids that stutter, littlerelatively, my kiddos that stutter
are 5 and 7. And so like formy 5 year old, when he first started
working on stuff, it wasliterally, put your hand up. If you're
talking and someone starts tointerrupt you stop. I'm not done
with what I'm saying.
You're.
You have to wait and listen.Just because it's going to take me
(16:59):
longer doesn't mean it's not important.
And if I may delve a littlebit more into that with your husband
also, how is he dealing or howdid he deal as he was growing up?
Because this is just a recentphenomena. So he grew up in what
I would call the old school philosophy.
So that's a little bit of astory. And that, I think, is how
we got involved in the nsa. Myhusband and I are high school sweethearts.
(17:22):
I've known him since I was ateenager. I didn't know that he stuttered
until probably a good twoyears into our relationship. Because
how stuttering was approachedwhen he was a child was, we're going
to fix it. And the goal is tonot stutter. And he learned how to
present to the public as aperson that does not stutter. Now,
internally, he was still aperson that stutters. He just learned,
(17:45):
we describe it, or hedescribes it really as like a teleprompter.
So he's got this little scriptgoing and he can mark, oh, that's
a word I'm going to stutteron. I'm going to swap it for a different
word if I need to fill up mycar. Oh, I'm going to stutter saying
that I have to put gas in thecar. I'm going to say that I'm putting
fuel in my car and doing thoseword swaps. And he became so proficient
at it that for many people,they still to this day, many people
(18:09):
who know him very well don'tknow that he stutters.
Wow.
And in the community, we callthat covert stuttering. So I adapted
to that. I followed his lead.That was how he preferred to do things.
And then we had a daughter whostarted stuttering. And I was like,
whoa, I think maybe we've beendoing this wrong the whole time.
Because I didn't. That feltreally icky to me. Like, that, okay,
(18:33):
we're going to teach her thatshe has to swap her words and she
has to be different, and shehas to go through all this, a lot
of mental effort, reallyexhausting mental effort to please
other people to her owndetriment. And I was like, I don't
want to do that. And so Iasked him if he would be okay with
us taking a different approachto stuttering. We didn't have to
change his approach, but couldwe change it for her? And he said,
(18:54):
yeah. I searched on Instagram,as my generation does, I found some
really cool accounts thathelped me learn that more about stuttering
acceptance led on this trailto National Stuttering Association.
And for our family, thishappened at the perfect time that
I discovered the NationalStuttering Association a few months
(19:15):
before their nationalconference was happening in St. Louis.
Wow.
And so, by fate, I was like,mitchell, I really. I want to take
Cora. I want to go. He said,you can take her, and I will not
be going. I was like, okay. SoI took her to the first night, and
she lit up.
She.
Every person that walked onthe stage, she goes, mom, they stutter.
(19:35):
Mom, that person stutters.
She's with her, keeps.
Mom, that person stutters. AndI was like, the next few days are
going to blow your mind. Andso after that first night, I went
home and I said, mitchell, Ithink it would be so valuable for
you to go. I've never beensurrounded by so many people who
stutter. And I was like, Ithink it would be valuable if you
don't want to go. As a personwho stutters, could you just go?
As a parent, could you go tolearn things, to help your kid? And
(19:57):
framing it like that, he waslike, okay. And he went. And he felt
really uncomfortable with it.He didn't have where Cora had that
feeling of, these are mypeople. He was like, this is what
I've avoided my whole life.These people are doing out in the
open. What I internalized assomething shameful and bad and so
it was really uncomfortable.But even after one day, he was like,
(20:20):
I think I'm gonna go backtomorrow. And so he did. And over
the process of that conferenceand the next conference, he's. He
likes to say he's stillworking on it. He's not fully at
the point where he acceptsstuttering, but he would have been
here today if he could. Buthe's in the middle of leading a whole
training session for all ofthe new employees nationwide that
just came to St. Louis.
(20:42):
That's crazy.
That's great.
So when we talk about, like,how stuttering doesn't have to limit
you, it's not. He's there,he's presenting, he's talking. And
he's reached the point whereat this presentation, it's very likely
that he's going to discloseand say, hey, nice to meet everyone.
I stutter. You might have tobe patient for some of this presentation.
And that's a huge step forhim. That just naturally came out
of. I wanted that feeling of,I want to be better for my kids than
(21:04):
I was for myself. But parents do.
You know, Mark, this remindsme of the deaf community, where one
group was like, you got toread lips. The other group was like,
signing. And it's like theywere at each other like this. And
it's. No, you do both. Okay,what's the deal? We don't have to
go down one particular road, right?
Correct this.
Arnold Strick with MarkLangston of St. Louis in Tune. We're
(21:27):
talking to Christine Rose,Molly Porcel, and Jamie Saunders
Anglin about stuttering. Thewebsite again, folks, is we stutter.org
and that's s t u t t e r.orgwe stutter.org One of the things,
Jamie, that I think really isanother feather in your cap for being
(21:50):
psa. Not psa, but the Gosh, Igot to get my acronyms correct. Or
the NSA parent of the year.But it should could be the NSA Legislator
of the year is you did thismedical alert kind of thing and talk
about that. Because if you'restopped by law enforcement and you
(22:10):
stutter, holy smokes, it's badenough. So how did this come about
and what's the result?
It came about when my daughterwas 14. For those of you who are
familiar with stuttering,saying your name and your birthday
can be a struggle. So we wentto the dmv. I was thinking this is
(22:33):
another tool that will helpher if I get her a state ID So if
she gets a block in the middleof sharing her name and birthday
that she can hand them thestate id. So we went through the
paperwork, did the process,and I said to the lady behind the
counter, can you please put anotification that she is a person
(22:53):
who stutters? So she served.She got quiet. She was like. She
started looking. She had this.And then she said, we don't have
anything for that. I was like,oh, baby, I'll be back, you little
girl. I said, I will be backbefore her 16th birthday. You will
have one for my daughter.Because, as you mentioned, law enforcement,
(23:18):
driving while black is a reality.
Correct.
So driving while black andstuttering. I didn't want to have
to get my daughter out of acompromising situation. I want law
enforcement to be able torecognize that they're about to encounter
a person that may look awaywhen she speaks, that may have blocks,
(23:39):
so you don't mistakenly thinkshe's drunk, mistakenly think she's
being disrespectful, Beingdisrespectful by looking away. But
you have already knowing,walking to the car, that you're encountering
somebody with a verbal diversity.
So what does it look like onthe license? What's the. What does
(24:00):
it say?
I think it's a red cross witha sex.
Little alert, a little medicalinsignia, and it has the. The acronym
of speech impair. And that washard for both Jamie and I to swallow
because. And I'm sure forMolly, too, and because we don't
view stuttering as animpairment, but as a verbal diversity.
(24:21):
And that's part of the nsa,that is okay to stutter, but for
the general public. But forthe general public and for the betterment
of this. This medical alert,that's what would fit on a driver's
license. So it's a little redinsignia, and it has the tag of speech
impair on it. Do you want totalk more about that?
So what'd you have to do toget that done? Did you have to go
(24:43):
to Jeff City, or do you haveto lobby your state representative
or senator?
That was spring break when Iwent to the DMV when she was 14.
So April 2024, I got on mycomputer and I sent out three emails,
and I got a response. I said,chris, I'm doing this. We got to
get this done. Before sheturned 16, the Missouri association.
(25:06):
For Speech and Speech LanguageHearing Association.
It's too many letters.
Misha.
The Ms.
Speech Language Hearing Association.
Yes. It got to theirpresident, CEO, president, executive
director. And she grabbed theball, and she was like, I never thought
of it. Let's get this Going.And she said it may not happen before
(25:28):
her 16th birthday, but we'regoing to do our best. Eight days
after her 16th birthday.
Oh, my.
It went into effect. You talkabout somebody hooping and hollering.
I ran downstairs. I was like,go get your license. I can't wait.
(25:52):
Those are some things that thelegislature should be doing.
Yeah.
And it's great that anorganization was able to proactively
because they probably havetentacles into the legislative process,
lobbyists and people likethat, and have the ear of individuals
like that in Jeff City. Butkudos to our legislature for getting
(26:12):
it done.
Dmv. Yes. It didn't have to gothrough legislation. That was the
first thing we did. Yeah.
That's one better.
Yeah. Okay. I take back what Isaid then.
I'm in Jefferson City all thetime. There are great people there.
So what happened was theywere. The DMV already has a list
(26:33):
of disabilities, so it wasadded to that list.
Gotcha.
That kind of made the processless tedious. I didn't have to go
through a vault. It has to be.The education part has to happen
now.
Right.
So we already have itestablished. We just need to go out
and educate those who.
I'm just thinking how manypeople know that they should even
(26:55):
say that when they're at the dmv?
To get very many. That's why Iknow we're trying to get the word
out.
Maybe we could do some PSAsfor them.
I think that'd be great.
You guys stick around afterthe show.
Well, public service announcements.
Yeah. So the process went. Ittook a long time. But unlike the
state of Illinois and state ofTexas, who had laws that were passed,
(27:18):
when we worked with Misha andtheir lobbyist and their legislative
person, they said, we canreally pivot and just go through
the DMV and it's going to bemuch more streamlined. And it doesn't.
The process now is. There is aspot on the website for a medical
alert. You have to. Youcontact your physician and they would
fill out a form, and then thatform would. You would bring that
(27:41):
with you to the dmv, and thenthat would allow for you to have
that insignia.
And I know we're here to talk.
About stuttering, but the coolthing about this speech impairment
is it doesn't necessarily meanjust people who stutter to benefit
from this. It can mean peoplewho've had a stroke and might have
a difficult time with gettingtheir words out. It can be people
(28:01):
with a developmental speechdelay who have still some difficulty
communicating with apraxia.Speech, where the motor pattern of
getting out that speech,especially in a time of heightened
awareness, when you're maybein an accident and you're dealing
with a first responder, yourspeech is already going to be a little
bit jumpy. It's really goingto be a benefit to not just the stuttering
(28:22):
community, but to adultswho've had strokes or people with
Parkinson's who might have alittle bit of a shaky sound to their
voice, people with some vocalfold dysfunction that might sound
a little hoarse. So it, itruns the gamut, which is what I think
is really the most impactabout this is it doesn't just pigeonhole
into stuttering. While it wascertainly stuttering that was created,
(28:46):
Jane, you really started thisfor stuttering. But your work with
the elderly in St. Louis,really, you felt very passionate
about also including allpeople who communicate differently.
That makes sense. Yeah, thatmakes perfect sense.
Wonderful.
We're going to take a briefbreak. We'll be right back for our
next segment of the show.You're listening to St. Louis in
tune with Arnold Stricker andMark Langston on the US Radio Network.
(29:23):
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(31:00):
The NSA has taught me it'sokay to stutter.
I began stuttering around theage of 4 years old and have discovered
this community in the past sixyears. And I'm absolutely in love
with all the aspects of it.
They are incredibly acceptingand welcoming. It's more like a gathering,
(31:21):
a homecoming.
This is our fourth conference,and as the parent of a child who
stutters, this is really thehighlight of the year for him. I
hear from a lot of people andespecially from my child, it's the
one time of the year whereeveryone sounds like them.
It was the very first time that.
Like, I went to a hotel and.
(31:41):
Everyone was stuttering andthey were like, stuttering loud.
And I'm like, oh, my God.
At times in our daily life, we.
Have to continuously fight tobe heard.
Fight to have, like, ouropinions matter.
I was just always trying to.To hide my stutter. I did absolutely
anything possible to notstutter. Nobody in my life ever told
(32:05):
me it's okay to stutter. Itwas always making fun of a stutter
or talk slower, go to speechtherapy so that you don't stutter.
I would shrink into myself,doing everything.
I could to take up as little.
Space as possible physically,emotionally, and verbally.
(32:25):
I wanted to be invisible.
I met somebody who stutteredfor the first time when I was 16
years old. But that was donefrom a speech therapy standpoint,
and the emphasis was on howfluent can I speak. I found out about
the National Stutteringassociation, and this has become
my second fifth family. Andit's a place where I feel I can be
(32:49):
my friend, self.
I first found out about theNSA after I hit a pretty hard rock
bottom, and I was justgoogling, why can't I say my name?
I came here and I startedwalking to the workshops, and I felt
(33:11):
myself start to almost crybecause I was just so nervous. And
I told myself, I was like, no,I'm going to stay.
For many people, it could betheir first time finding another
person who stutters, learningmore about themselves and accepting
that they're a person whostutters too. And that's a very scary
process, a very scary journeyto go through. And NSA provides this
(33:33):
nice base and support that isrun by the people itself. And that's
just what the most beautifuland powerful thing of it is. Connecting
with the stuttering communityhas been one of the most important
parts of my own journey as aperson who stutters. When I'm able
to connect again with thecommunity, hear other people who
stutter and relate to eachother, that does wonders for my own
(33:55):
progress and my own journey asa person who stutters and my own
self acceptance.
Seeing my stutter in adifferent way, something I never
heard much as in the last 60plus years, that you are strong,
you are valuable, you arebeautiful, you are interesting. I
want to hear what you have.
To say, which is welcome.After 60 years of feeling like I
(34:19):
was walking alone through thisjourney and.
Really realizing I'm not, itis so, so essential to realize that
you are not alone. Havingyoung kids know they aren't alone
(34:40):
from the beginning is crucialto their successful development overall.
Being at the conferencereminded me that I am enough. It
reminded me that yes, mystutter is a part of who I am, but
thank you. The Just for Girlsworkshop, it was led by sisters who
stutter.
And I think what the generaltheme ended up being was just about
(35:04):
confidence, being a girl, ateen girl, especially in society
like today, where perfection is.
Expected by other people.
And so I do think that a.
Lot of the teens come to the.
Conference to find thatsisterhood or brotherhood.
Just kids their own age that understand.
What they're going through.
One of the biggest things isjust like hearing other people who
stutter, that just likedissolves the stigma around it.
(35:26):
The NSA is for anyone from a.
Kid to a seasoned voice, to anSLP to an ally, a parent. The NSA
welcomes everyone. I firstcame to an NSA conference in 2015.
I was a brand new SLP.
It really changed my frame of mind.
(35:47):
In terms of how to work withpeople who stutter. This is the most
friendly conference I've everbeen to. Everyone here is so friendly
and both the people whostutter here, the SLPs that are here,
everybody who's here, it'sjust been this really warm community
and I just, I feel a part of.
It and this is just my first time.
So I would say just do it. Forsure you'll love it. After I leave
(36:09):
this conference, I know that Iwill have more confidence just after
one day. It was really scarycoming here for the first time, but
I'm so happy that I was ableto come, come because it has truly
been such a life changingexperience and it's, I'm, it's. I
feel so blessed and so grateful.
To have so many like amazingpeople around me.
(36:30):
We were listening to arecording of the National Stuttering
association conference.Individuals who attended that and
the National StutteringAssociation. The NSA is the largest
nonprofit organization in theworld dedicated to bringing hope
and empowerment to childrenand adults who stutter, their families
and professionals throughsupport, education, advocacy and
(36:52):
research. We've been talkingin studio to Christine Rose, Molly
Porzel, and JamieSaunders-Anglin about stuttering.
And there are some localsupport groups that the NSA has,
local chapter groups, and I'mthinking for parents and for kids
and maybe even educators.Let's talk a little bit about that
(37:12):
so our listeners know thatthey can check this out. Matter of
fact, westudter.org is thewebsite, folks.
Yep. So in St. Louis, we arelucky that we have both an adult
chapter and a family chapter.I run the family chapter, so I know
more from that side. The adultchapter is also great. But working
with kids, having kids whostutter, doing the family side was
(37:35):
really important to me. Andthe video that we saw was from the
national conference whereeveryone gets together, you're surrounded
by people who stutter. And Ithink that my family attended that
and it was like, oh, we needthis in our community. Like, this
can't be a once a year thingthat, oh, we see these people and
then we shift off to all ofour different spots around the country.
(37:55):
We need it. There's people inSt. Louis who stutter, and we need
to find those people. And itstarted as we had a kids chapter
and a teen chapter. And morerecently, we decided those two don't
have to be separate. Like, thekids learn so much from the teens.
The teens gained so much frominteracting with the kids. And I
feel like I'm backtracking alittle bit. But I also want to say
that this chapter is designedfor kids who stutter, teens who stutter,
(38:20):
their families. But it'swelcoming to everybody. It is welcoming
to allies, it's welcoming topeople who want to learn more, to
educators, to speech languagepathologists. It's not a closed off
community. That's if you don'tstutter, you're not welcome. Like,
we want people to know aboutstuttering. It's beneficial for the
kids and the parents to, tofind that community. And we try to
(38:41):
keep it really relaxed andmellow. It's not, you're not gonna
come to this meeting and we'renot gonna spew facts at you. It's
really a chance for kids,teens, families to see each other
and feel that feeling of ifyou stutter, you are not alone.
How often do they meet?
So our family chapter meetsmonthly and we've started a new system
where we rotate our meetingsto Try and reach more people. I know
(39:05):
that sometimes it's hard forour city folks to get out to the
county. It's hard for countyfolks to come in. So we're on a RO
schedule where we'll meet in.We'll meet at St. Louis University,
and then we'll have a specialevent that might be somewhere. Our
last one was a summerbarbecue, and then we meet at Chicken
and pickle in St. Charles.They really generously have donated
(39:27):
space to us.
Chicken and Pickle. Thatsounds good.
Yeah.
So once every three months, wemeet up. And you can get food if
you want. If not, there'sgames, there's pickleball, and it's
just a chance to really buildcommunity, meet people and see yourself
and your voice reflected in others.
How long are these meetings generally?
They're about an hour and ahalf. They're scheduled. So if you
(39:49):
check out our listing, if youlook up westutter.org and you can
find the St. Louis familychapter, we have it broken down so
that it's easy to figure outwhich where we're at, which month.
And our meetings run from6:30pm to 8pm People are welcome
to come and go anytime withinthat window that works for them.
And the kids in the parentmeetings are the same time, same
(40:09):
place, or are they different?
Yeah. So our family chapter iskids and parents all together. That's
all the same time and sameplace. The adult chapter, which is
separate, always meets at sluand they also meet monthly.
Okay.
Just for adults who stutter orsupporters who want to attend those
meetings.
And you can go towestutter.org and there's a link
(40:30):
on there. Is that what I'munderstanding? Yeah.
Under we stutter.org underevents. That's where you can find
a lot of the special events,because there are events there are
on now in this day and age ofzoom. There are also online opportunities
for kids to gather virtuallyand teens together virtually. I saw
that there's a group, Sisterswho stutter, and it's teenage girls
(40:52):
who stutter. There's workresources for interviewing, dating,
stuttering while older.There's a whole bunch of different
resources, but under that,westudter.org if you look for find
the chapter, that's where youwill find the information about.
Then they have a chapterlocator map. I'm looking at that
right now. There's one onLindell Boulevard, 3750 Lindell Boulevard.
(41:13):
That's the St. Louis adultschapter. And that's run by Chad Minisi.
He's actually the chair of theboard of the NSA. So we're lucky
to have him right here in St.Louis. And we meet on St. Louis University's
campus the fourth Monday ofevery month from 6:30 to 8:30. And
we're always wanting morepeople. It's not that it's a small.
(41:36):
It's about six people thatcome regularly. But we're always
wanting to reach out tocollege students, adults of all ages,
to come and find theircommunity there. And again, kind
of like what Molly said, it'sa very low key. They gather and talk
and chat about all thesuccesses they have in life and any
challenges that they mighthave faced because they stutter and
(41:58):
kind of work together as ateam. So it's a really. It's a great
community.
And you've experienced these,I'm sure.
Yes, I've attended all ofthese. I especially like the one
at Chicken and Pickle. Thatwas a lot of fun.
I didn't know it waspickleball. I get it now. I like
pickles, so I thought it was pickle.
I think it's important forparents because I consider myself
(42:22):
an ally of the stutteringcommunity because we have to, in
order for our kids to besuccessful with their stuttering
and their acceptance, we haveto be accepting. And that's the hard
part. Because as a parent, wewant to make our children's lives
so much easier. And just witha driver's license, I can't change
(42:45):
her stuttering. I can't fixit, or it doesn't need to be fixed.
In my mind, she's fearfullyand wonderfully made just the way
she is. But I think for me, Ihad to accept that I have a child
that has a stutter. And then Ihad to put a plan in place and meet
(43:05):
people who were in the samespace that I was. And we had to encourage
each other that our kids areokay just the way they are. And we
needed that environmentbecause as Chris mentioned earlier,
sometimes the speech pathologycommunity gave out a little bit of
(43:25):
the wrong information.
False hope.
False hope. I think as more ofus realize as our kids get older.
I've gone through preschool,my daughter's 16. I've gone through
middle school, which was ahorrible time for a child who started
and she says high school ismuch easier.
Let me ask you this. As youwere talking, I was thinking, how
(43:47):
has the education communityresponded to the information that
you've given them about yourdaughter or that she's given them?
One thing that has happened isthat Octavia has learned to Construct
a letter that she emails toall of her teachers saying, I'm a
person who stutters. These arethe things I need to be successful
(44:10):
in the classroom. And myapproach to my daughter stuttering
is, this is your journey. I'mjust your co pilot. Tell me what
you need and I'll go out andget it for you. So we kind of work
as a team and so if I don'tknow anything, I go, hey, Chris.
This is bouncing aroundOctavia's head and she'll reach out
(44:31):
to Chris and we'll cometogether and try to make it work
for her. As far as educationgoes, most of the teachers have been
really receptive, especiallyin high school. I get, oh my God,
I got that email. Thank you somuch. It takes a while for information
from the special educationdepartment to trickle down to the
(44:53):
teachers. So when you walk inthe door and get an email from a
student, right, telling youthat this is what I need, they really
appreciate it.
That's a big deal. Becauseeven a lot of what I would call non
stutterers have trouble withadvocacy on their own. And that's
something that's a learnedskill, frankly, that you need to
speak up for yourself.
That's true.
(45:14):
On the very first sessions intherapy is working on that self advocacy,
knowing what's happening intheir own body when they stutter,
knowing what their, how theirbody makes speech, what does the
speech machine entail, andthen being able to educate others
about their speech and whatthey need. And looking ahead, October
(45:35):
22nd is internationalstuttering Awareness Day. And so
a lot of SLPs out there and alot of students in schools are busy
preparing special activitiesfor that day in school. I know at
City Garden that Jamiementioned that I also work at, we
have a big day onInternational Stuttering Awareness
Day and that can look at thepeople who stutter, giving classroom
(45:58):
presentations to their peers.So breaking down that stigma of what
it is to be a person whostuttered, even even at the kindergarten
first grade level, we havefirst graders who are standing in
front of the class talkingabout how they speak and how they
speak differently and whatthey need their teachers and their
listeners to do. And so Ithink that day is set aside to, for
(46:20):
the world to know that it is aday to celebrate this verbal diversity.
And going back to your pointabout educators, there's lots of
resources on that NSA websitespecifically designed for educators
and it's really solid researchbacked information.
Did having President Biden,who is a stutterer, did that help
(46:40):
with the awareness or theStigma of it at all?
Yes and no. Yes and no.
Yeah.
Molly was talking about acovert stutterer being someone who
has to hide and pick their words.
He seems to do that, and he.
Does that very well. And Ithink a lot of the times when he
was being made fun of in themedia were times when he was using
(47:01):
that moment to try to figureout what word to say so he wouldn't
stutter on it. He has come outand really embraced his stuttering.
He invited a young person whostuttered to talk at the Democratic
National Convention and thenco wrote a book with Braden about
his stutter. And that's reallypowerful for kids to see. So, yeah,
(47:24):
it both helped and perpetuatedthe idea that to be a successful
speaker, you might need topick your words wisely so you don't
stutter on them, when in fact,you can be anything you want to be
and stutter openly. And it'sthat hiding that tends to intensify
the stuttering. So if we cankeep kids, young kids, from trying
(47:45):
to hide their stutter and becovert, that gets rid of some of
that struggle, and then theycan stutter openly. And that's what
we want. We want to peel backthe onion and let them stutter how
they were organically made to do.
Kids can be really harsh andcruel, but kids can be very forgiving
and loving too. And ifpresented with the information, I
(48:07):
can see a first graderstanding up in front of the class
saying, hey, this is who I amand this is what I struggle with.
And the rest of the kids inthe class saying, yeah, we get that.
And then defending thatstudent when they are challenged
or made fun of on theplayground or something. So it's
kudos to you guys.
I've never had it in my psycheto make fun of people on any of these,
(48:31):
but yeah, it's just hurts meto know that people would make fun
of someone like that. And it'sjust. It's uncalled for, not needed.
So I want to give the WebsiteAgain, it's westutter.org westutter.org
and you can also check out.That's the website for the National
Stuttering Association. Checkout, folks, the local chapters, very
(48:54):
important. October 22nd. Ifyou're listening and you have a child
who stutters, or maybe you'rea parent or you're an educator and
you want to bring thisinformation to your school, check
out the website. It's veryimportant. 79 million people stutter
worldwide.
Wow, that's a lot.
That's a Lot.
Yeah, that's a lot of people.
I want to give you guys anopen invitation. Anytime you want
(49:16):
to come on and talk about anyrecent developments or anything like
that, please feel free tocontact me if you're going to be
advocating more and gettingmore of that stuff done. Jamie, if
you're working with kids andyou're like, wow, this is really
working. And Christine, any ofthe latest research, please feel
free to contact us. And we'dlove to have you guys on here to
talk about that because thisis. This has really been an informative
(49:38):
show.
Oh, yeah. I have a veryimportant show, I think.
Thank you ladies for coming in.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for theopportunity. I really appreciate
it.
You bet. You guys canparticipate in our couple other things
we have here. We have aportion of the show called Mental
Floss.
Okay.
Ben Franklin's formaleducation ended at 10 years old.
Mark.
What?
(50:00):
See, doesn't give many of ushope for our current generation.
True. I know it.
Newborn babies have nearly 100more bones than full grown adults.
Knew that. I never knew that.
I never knew that either. Whena man allegedly found a dead mouse
in his can of Mountain Dew,Pepsi had an expert claim in an affidavit
(50:23):
that the drink was so acidicit would have dissolved the mouse
after 30 days. I thought thatwas Coca Cola, not Mountain Dew.
Make me reevaluate.
Have you seen people thatdrink mountain their teeth? What
happens to them? Never mind.Just kidding.
Okay, I'll skip that one.Hollywood starlet Hedy Lamar is often
(50:44):
called the mother of WI fi.She helped invent a version of the
frequency hopping system thatled to the creation of gps, Bluetooth
and the wireless Internet.
Get out of here.
That's cool.
Wow.
Okay.
You are a wealth of information.
I'm just reading off of the Internet.
Okay.
Don't believe everything youhear, Mark. Okay. What days of the
(51:04):
day do you have?
I got a couple. Just a few. Itis National Chewing Gum Day, y'.
All.
Chew gum, anybody? I had toquit. I. My fillings would come out
with a chewing bowl all thetime. Did you ever do that? International
Translation Day. I guess we'retranslating here.
Yes.
National Puppy Mill SurvivorDay. That's a nice one. Pet Tricks
(51:27):
Day. You have pets? Do yourpets do any tricks?
No, I'm. I just am glad thatthey follow directions sometimes.
Okay. National Orange ShirtDay. Do you have an orange shirt?
I do not.
I know I can't.
If you're in Tennessee, youwill. Yeah, I guess Syracuse.
I would never do it. Icouldn't do it. I just can't do that.
I don't have a whole lot ofdays. International podcast days
(51:49):
today.
Oh, how about.
Yeah, this is going to be apodcast. It'll be on the radio.
Stlmtune.com and it'll also bea podcast.
On YouTube and Facebook andjust I guess anywhere you want to.
Where. What platforms can youfind this on?
Every platform.
Every platform. For instance,an example would be.
An example would be. Oh, gosh,you're asking me. And my brain's
(52:13):
going, okay, you go to Amazon.We're on Amazon.
Yeah, Apple.
Apple.
Okay.
For sure. You go to. Let mepull up the website.
Okay.
And I can tell you.
And I'll tell you one lastdate after you get done and we'll
wrap it up with that day.National Love. People day is today.
Love. That should be every day.
I know we don't want to gettoo moony here, but yeah, could use
(52:36):
a little bit more of that.
Okay, Apple Podcasts, Castro,Amazon Music, YouTube, Pandora, iHeartRadio,
Radio Public Spotify, RSSFeed. You can get that Odyssey cast
box, Deezer Player fm.
Wow.
Castro, Castro.
Not like the dictator Castro.
We're not from Cuba.
Okay. I don't think I've everheard it. That's okay. But national
(52:57):
podcast Day, so cool. Go findthis STL intune podcast.
That's right, Mark. I once sawa 3,000 year old oil stain.
Huh?
It was from ancient Greece.
My God, you guys. Our guestsare leaving.
The wife said, if a tigerattacks your mother in law and your
(53:18):
wife at the same time, whowill you save? The husband said,
of course, the tiger. Very feware left now. The husband is now
in icu. What kind of. Theseare your kinds of jokes here, Mark.
What kind of doctor is Dr.Pepper? A physician. What's the difference
(53:39):
between Black Eyed Peas and chickpeas?
I don't know.
Black Eyed Peas can sing us asong, chickpeas can hum us one.
Very weird.
It's bad.
Strange. I don't know why y'all should.
I love the phrase bear withme. Because it can either mean be
patient or the zoo heist was asuccess. And when I eat a rack of
(54:07):
ribs, I only eat the 2nd, 3rd,5th, 7th and 11th ribs.
Why is that?
I prefer prime ribs. There wasonce a king who was only 12 inches
tall. He was a terrible king,but he made a great ruler.
(54:28):
Oh, man. All right.
Oh, Arnold. And intelligenceis like underwear. Great to have,
but no need to show it off.
It's got to be over. Have yourun out yet?
No, I just got an emotionalsupport animal. It's a pig. Not the
whole pig, okay? It's bacon.
(54:51):
Why are you laughing? Don'tlaugh. Don't encourage him.
And it is October soon.Tomorrow it will be October, which
means that all the cobwebs anddust in my house will soon become
Halloween decorations.
I like that. That's good. Getthe horse out of here. Okay.
And out of all of the martialarts, karaoke inflicts the most pain.
(55:14):
No kidding. That's for sure.
That's all for this hour,folks. Thanks for listening. If you've
enjoyed this episode, you canlisten to additional shows@stlintune.com
consider leaving a review onour website, Apple Podcasts, Podchaser,
or your preferred podcastplatform. Your feedback helps us
reach more listeners andcontinue to grow. I want to thank
(55:35):
Bob Berthicel for our thememusic, our sponsor, Better Rate Mortgage.
Our guests, Christine Rose,Molly Porzal and Jamie Saunders Anglin.
And we want to thank our cohost, Mark Langston. And folks, thank
you for being a part of ourcommunity of curious minds. St. Louis
in tune is a production ofMotif Media Group and the US Radio
Network. Remember to keepseeking, keep learning, walk worthy,
and let your light shine. ForSt. Louis in tune, I'm Arnold Stricker.
It's estimated about 1% of theadult population stutters, which
equates to almost 3 millionpeople who stutter. In the United
States. Stuttering is aboutthree or four times more common in
males than females. There isno reliable research backed cure
that works consistently overtime and for all people who stutter.
The National Stutteringassociation is committed to enhancing
(00:22):
the lives of people whostutter, educating the public, assisting
speech therapists, championingresearch, and to reducing the stigma
of stuttering. And we're goingto talk to them today on St. Louis
in Tune. Welcome to St. Louisin Tune and thank you for joining
(00:50):
us for fresh perspectives onissues and events with experts, community
leaders and everyday peoplewho make a difference in shaping
our society and world. I'mArnold Stricker along with co host
Mark Langston. Yay. Greetingsto you, Mark.
Greetings to you, Arnold.Great to be with you today.
It's great to be with many people.
I know. I think we're gonnahave a great show.
(01:11):
It's gonna be a wonderfulshow. Something I think people need
to be aware of.
Yeah, I've been very aware. Ihave friends that stutter and. But
I expect I'm gonna learn a lotabout stuttering and I had no idea
there were so many people inthe United States alone that stutter.
So I'm looking forward tohearing what's going on here.
Our guests will speak frompersonal and professional experience
(01:33):
and it's really going to be agreat panel that we have today here.
Mark. Okay, we're glad thatyou've joined us today, folks. We
want you to thank our sponsor,Better Rate Mortgage for their support
of the show. You can listen toprevious shows@stlintune.com please
help us continue to grow byleaving a review on our website.
Apple Podcast or. Or yourpreferred podcast platform. Our thought
(01:54):
to ponder today is that nopessimist ever discovered the secret
of the stars or sailed to anunchartered land or opened a new
doorway for the human spirit.
Okay.
Helen Keller.
Wow. Okay.
Someone who we all. Maybe youdon't know about Helen Keller, folks.
If you don't, there's a greatbook to read on her. But someone
(02:18):
who was blind, who was deaf,and who ended up becoming someone
who was just miraculous in thethings that she was able to do. Check
that out. No pessimist everdiscovered the secret of the stars
or sailed to an uncharteredland or opened a new doorway for
the human spirit. We're goingto open a new doorway for those who
(02:40):
are stuttering in our countryand even around the world. We have
three guests in studio today.Christine Rose is a speech language
pathologist and you will hearSLP maybe in the course of our conversation.
That's a speech languagepathologist. She works as a graduate
clinical instructor at St.Louis University. She co leads a
(03:00):
National Stutteringassociation caregiver virtual support
group with Jamie Saunders. AndJamie Saunders is here. She is a
licensed social worker andparent of a person who stutters.
She was the NSA parent of theyear. She initiated the driver's
license alert, which we'regoing to talk about. Co leads a National
(03:20):
Stuttering associationcaregiver virtual support group with
Christine and JamieSaunders-Anglin. And also we have
Molly Porzel. Is that correct, Molly?
Yep.
And Molly is the wife of aperson who stutters and the mother
of three children, two of whomstutter. She brings a unique perspective
to the stuttering communityand she works as a social emotional
(03:43):
interventionist at anelementary school in the St. Louis
metropolitan area and sheleads the family chapter of the NSA.
Welcome, ladies, to St. Louisin Tune.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
I guess the very firstquestion I have is I'm sure people
have listened to people whohave stuttered, and maybe they don't
(04:04):
really realize that they'velistened to people who have learned
to deal with their stuttering.What exactly is stuttering? Some
people will say it's a varietyof couple things. Let's get some
baseline information for listeners.
Yeah. Do you want me to takewhat is stuttering?
Yep.
Stuttering. They're findingthat stuttering is mostly genetic.
(04:24):
Most stuttering is. Has agenetic basis, and there's lots of
exciting research out thereabout the causes of stuttering. So
there's a lot of reallyimportant information coming out.
But at its core, stuttering isa disfluent speech pattern where
sometimes you get blocks wherethe words just are blocked, either
at the mouth or the larynx andsometimes even down in the lungs.
(04:46):
You can get some tension downthere where you get some blocks and
you just literally cannot getthe word out for a moment, up to
a couple seconds. There's alsorepetitions where you ruh. Repeat
the beginning of a word orthere's prolongations where you might
prolong the sound that you'retrying to say. So at its core, stuttering,
(05:07):
the definition is really justa disfluency in speech. And where
the impact is, we look atfunctional impact, how that impacts
the listener or the speaker,rather, and the listener, for that
matter, but the speaker, theiremotions that are tied to that moment
of stuttering. So as aprofession we've gone three, a whole
(05:30):
circle around where when Ifirst started it was about fixing
the person who stuttered. Itwas fixing. And if you can imagine
that you were genetically madeto stutter and you have the neurology
of a person who stutters, I asa speech therapist and other speech
therapists were asking peopleto do the impossible. And so we weren't
getting any progress. They,the person who stutters was frustrated.
(05:53):
Stuttering is very, it'svariable. There can be weeks where
you don't stutter, there canbe hours where you don't stutter.
And then it's. It happens. Ithappens for a variety of reasons.
And that's one of the mostunsettling parts of having a communication
style like this is thevariability. So our profession was
taking data on a communicationdifference that is variable. So our
(06:17):
data wasn't accurate. We weretrying to fix people who aren't really
broken. It's just thecommunication difference, verbal
diversity. So we've done a360. We're still trying to get the
word out to most SLPs that weare not here to fix. We're here to
support the person'scommunication and allow them to communicate
(06:38):
with as much ease as possible.Looking at that adverse impact, what
is it? The first time Istuttered, how did my parents react?
The second time I stuttered,did someone react a different way?
And then trying to keep thoseyounger generation, which is why
I think our family's chaptersand our parents chapters are so important
is to let the parents of youngpeople know that it is absolutely
(07:01):
okay to stutter. A lot oftimes people, there are a large number
of preschoolers who outgrowit. But for those who aren't going
to outgrow it, setting thatfoundation that stuttering is okay
and that we're listening butwe can provide you some tools and
strategies to help with thatease. But also just reiterating that
(07:25):
to self advocate to the peoplethat you're talking to. You might
hear me stutter and it's okay,just give me an extra time or two.
And you mentioned that this isa, it's really a physiological kind
of thing.
I was not aware of that.
Yeah. So it's.
I don't know what I thought itwas. I don't know if I ever gave
it much thought, but I reallydidn't. But learning that it's a
(07:46):
physiological kind.
Of thing and a genetic factortoo in this. Yeah, we're going to
get into that with our Guestshere. Yeah. So the breathing, is
that more of a neurologicalkind of thing where there's this
disconnect between breathingand the speech and the mind initiating
all of this stuff?
Yeah, it can be that they'refinding more and more genes all the
(08:09):
time. They did a veryfascinating. Dennis. Dr. Dennis Rena
did a fascinating study wherehe took. He isolated some genes and
they inserted those genes intomice and these little. You think,
how could mice tell usanything about stuttering? But they
had these little mice havethese little pup isolation calls,
and they were able to mimicwhat it is, what, what it like the
(08:33):
pattern of a stutter and tofigure out which genes are involved.
So from that is sprung a lotof research into the neurological
differences. And thosedifferences are in different cells.
There's a cell called theastrocytes. So when I'm working with
kids, and astro means star, sowhen I'm working with young people
or even adults, I'm like,let's talk about the stars in your
(08:54):
brain and how those might beunique to you as a communication
person. And that just leadsdown the road of so many fun and
exciting adventures. Talkingabout, like, we were just talking
about Darth Vader, the personwho played Darth Vader as a person
who stutters. So we talkabout. He was in the stars in Star
Wars. And so thoseneurological differences do impact
(09:15):
the motor planning for speech.So it's. They talk about demands
and capacities. So people whostutter might have a different capacity
when the language demand ishigher. So when children are learning
to talk, we think about thatage explosion when they're like two
to six, when they're learningfrom one word to two words to big
(09:39):
sentences, and watching thesocial communication and learning
all these words. And that'swhen we see stuttering start for
most people, because whenthey're saying like one word at a
time, two word at a time,three word at a time, the motor planning
is coming pretty naturally.But when a person who stutters, whose
neurology and genetics arethere to my predict that they're
(10:03):
going to be a person whostutters when they start putting
all of those pieces together,it's the motor planning and the action
of doing all of that to kindof like a.
That misses like the sparkplugs are missing a little bit. So
the. It's just not flowing.
Yeah, yeah.
The demand overloads thecapacity. Fluent speed. Yeah.
I have so many questions.
(10:23):
Well, fire away with I don't know.
Mel Tillis is back. In myyears of country radio, I got to
know Mel Tillis real well.
Wow.
And he really stutters.
He's a very good stutterer.
I know. Really, you sit downwith Mel and try to talk, and it's.
It's a struggle, I think, forMel sometimes, But he sings perfect.
(10:45):
And it just always boggled mymind how he. He's a really pet stutterer.
I don't know how else todescribe it, but he certainly sings
really well. Or dead. I don'tthink he's singing much anymore.
I have a semi answer as a. Anamateur slp, okay. Is that music
is in a different portion ofthe brain. And so thus, it's not
(11:07):
going through that sectionthat speech is going through. It's
going through a differentportion of the brain. That's why
singing.
Okay.
He could sing without stuttering.
Yeah, go. You got it. You got it.
Wow.
Different parts of the brain.
As a former musician, I couldsay yes.
So you're leaving us here inradio and going with them, work with
them for a while.
But that's a great point,though, Mark.
(11:28):
I know. And if. I guess if youknew Mel Tillis, like I've had an
opportunity to know, you'dsay, wow, he is. And I'm not trying
to say anything about Melother than he really struggles talking,
carrying on a conversation.It's really a struggle with Mel.
I think that shows the varietyof the depth of this particular issue.
Some people, it's just a minorkind of thing. Some people, it's
(11:50):
a major kind of deal, but itimpacts them emotionally and dealing
in social situations. We'regoing to talk about that in a second.
But I wanted to go to Jamieand ask you, how did you get involved
working in this virtualsupport group with Christine? How
did you get involved with thenational group?
I met Christine through CityGarden, Montessori. My daughter was
(12:13):
attending school there. Andduring the pandemic, her stuttering
increased. And so I reachedout. The school had just transitioned
into a different speechprogram. And I said this zoom speech
therapy is not working. Weneed to find another way. Her IEP
(12:33):
says we have to provide speechtherapy to her in an environment
that best fits the child inthe situation. So Chris came to the
house, sat outside.
Wow.
During the pandemic. And gotme and my daughter through Covid.
And I learned so much. Mydaughter had been diagnosed, probably
(12:57):
was first grade. And ofcourse, the wonderful SLP at the
school said, it'sdevelopmental, it will go away. She's
10 and still studying.
Wow.
It did not go away. So Chrisgave me an education. Like, she's
doing here today about what Icould do to help Octavia become not
(13:18):
less not fluent, but acceptwho she is and be confident in her
stutter.
Stuttering, being confident inyourself is a huge thing. And when
you have those kind ofimpediments, whether it's a physical
impediment or mental or speechimpediment or something that just
impacts you completely.
So to answer your question,how I got here, yeah, I was blown
(13:41):
away. I was like, there has tobe other parents out here dealing
with the same problem. I. Ireally needed the support. It was
about me finding my people andso we could sit down and talk about
our children who have thisunique gift. So I searched just like
(14:02):
you did my research, and Ifound the National Stuttering association.
And I did the emails, made thecalls, and I said, I see on your
website that you have groupsthat you start locally. So there
was an adult chapter here. SoI called the adult chapter leader
and I said, do you haveanything for parents? She said, no,
we don't have anything forparents. So I said, okay, let's go.
(14:26):
There you are.
So I said, chris, I'm going toreach out to the National Stuttering
association and start thisvirtual group. And it went on from
there.
That's great. That's great.And you went on to be the National
Stuttering association parentof the year, right?
Yes, they gave me an award. I was.
(14:46):
So the fact that you initiatedto get that going where there wasn't
a group that's worthy ofgetting that honor.
Thank you. Thank you. But I doit because, number one, I love my
daughter, and number two, I'ma social worker and my career, and
helping people is what I do.
That's great. That's great.Molly, you probably deal with kids
(15:08):
where you're working, and partof that we've touched a little bit
on is the social emotionalfactor that as I was watching a video
that they have on the website,folks, and by the website, the website
is W e S T u t t e r.org westutter.org and that video was. I
(15:30):
was blown away that people,when they were able to get around
other folks who had the sameissue, they were like, it's, I'm
okay. There's nothing wrongwith me. How do you deal with kids
who are just coming in andstruggling with all these things?
I take a lot of myprofessional work and I apply that
to the NSA as one naturallydoes. And so I actually ran a session
(15:55):
at this past conference thissummer, and it was entirely focused
on, like, self Advocacy. Sowhere Chris talked about that feeling
of your voice matters and youcan stand up for yourself because
I think a lot of the emotionalstruggle comes from what's happening
underneath. It's that feelingof, I want to say this, but nobody's
going to listen. I want to saythis, but I'm going to be interrupted.
(16:17):
And so to avoid all of thosenegative feelings that are going
to come from being overlookedand interrupted, I'm just not going
to say anything at all. Andthen I'm going to feel bad because
I didn't say what I wanted tosay. So it's really, I think that
piece of self advocacy is soimportant of people are going to
listen and if they're not, youcan make them listen. Like you can
(16:38):
say, what I have to say isimportant. And having two little
kids that stutter, littlerelatively, my kiddos that stutter
are 5 and 7. And so like formy 5 year old, when he first started
working on stuff, it wasliterally, put your hand up. If you're
talking and someone starts tointerrupt you stop. I'm not done
with what I'm saying.
You're.
You have to wait and listen.Just because it's going to take me
(16:59):
longer doesn't mean it's not important.
And if I may delve a littlebit more into that with your husband
also, how is he dealing or howdid he deal as he was growing up?
Because this is just a recentphenomena. So he grew up in what
I would call the old school philosophy.
So that's a little bit of astory. And that, I think, is how
we got involved in the nsa. Myhusband and I are high school sweethearts.
(17:22):
I've known him since I was ateenager. I didn't know that he stuttered
until probably a good twoyears into our relationship. Because
how stuttering was approachedwhen he was a child was, we're going
to fix it. And the goal is tonot stutter. And he learned how to
present to the public as aperson that does not stutter. Now,
internally, he was still aperson that stutters. He just learned,
(17:45):
we describe it, or hedescribes it really as like a teleprompter.
So he's got this little scriptgoing and he can mark, oh, that's
a word I'm going to stutteron. I'm going to swap it for a different
word if I need to fill up mycar. Oh, I'm going to stutter saying
that I have to put gas in thecar. I'm going to say that I'm putting
fuel in my car and doing thoseword swaps. And he became so proficient
at it that for many people,they still to this day, many people
(18:09):
who know him very well don'tknow that he stutters.
Wow.
And in the community, we callthat covert stuttering. So I adapted
to that. I followed his lead.That was how he preferred to do things.
And then we had a daughter whostarted stuttering. And I was like,
whoa, I think maybe we've beendoing this wrong the whole time.
Because I didn't. That feltreally icky to me. Like, that, okay,
(18:33):
we're going to teach her thatshe has to swap her words and she
has to be different, and shehas to go through all this, a lot
of mental effort, reallyexhausting mental effort to please
other people to her owndetriment. And I was like, I don't
want to do that. And so Iasked him if he would be okay with
us taking a different approachto stuttering. We didn't have to
change his approach, but couldwe change it for her? And he said,
(18:54):
yeah. I searched on Instagram,as my generation does, I found some
really cool accounts thathelped me learn that more about stuttering
acceptance led on this trailto National Stuttering Association.
And for our family, thishappened at the perfect time that
I discovered the NationalStuttering Association a few months
(19:15):
before their nationalconference was happening in St. Louis.
Wow.
And so, by fate, I was like,mitchell, I really. I want to take
Cora. I want to go. He said,you can take her, and I will not
be going. I was like, okay. SoI took her to the first night, and
she lit up.
She.
Every person that walked onthe stage, she goes, mom, they stutter.
(19:35):
Mom, that person stutters.
She's with her, keeps.
Mom, that person stutters. AndI was like, the next few days are
going to blow your mind. Andso after that first night, I went
home and I said, mitchell, Ithink it would be so valuable for
you to go. I've never beensurrounded by so many people who
stutter. And I was like, Ithink it would be valuable if you
don't want to go. As a personwho stutters, could you just go?
As a parent, could you go tolearn things, to help your kid? And
(19:57):
framing it like that, he waslike, okay. And he went. And he felt
really uncomfortable with it.He didn't have where Cora had that
feeling of, these are mypeople. He was like, this is what
I've avoided my whole life.These people are doing out in the
open. What I internalized assomething shameful and bad and so
it was really uncomfortable.But even after one day, he was like,
(20:20):
I think I'm gonna go backtomorrow. And so he did. And over
the process of that conferenceand the next conference, he's. He
likes to say he's stillworking on it. He's not fully at
the point where he acceptsstuttering, but he would have been
here today if he could. Buthe's in the middle of leading a whole
training session for all ofthe new employees nationwide that
just came to St. Louis.
(20:42):
That's crazy.
That's great.
So when we talk about, like,how stuttering doesn't have to limit
you, it's not. He's there,he's presenting, he's talking. And
he's reached the point whereat this presentation, it's very likely
that he's going to discloseand say, hey, nice to meet everyone.
I stutter. You might have tobe patient for some of this presentation.
And that's a huge step forhim. That just naturally came out
of. I wanted that feeling of,I want to be better for my kids than
(21:04):
I was for myself. But parents do.
You know, Mark, this remindsme of the deaf community, where one
group was like, you got toread lips. The other group was like,
signing. And it's like theywere at each other like this. And
it's. No, you do both. Okay,what's the deal? We don't have to
go down one particular road, right?
Correct this.
Arnold Strick with MarkLangston of St. Louis in Tune. We're
(21:27):
talking to Christine Rose,Molly Porcel, and Jamie Saunders
Anglin about stuttering. Thewebsite again, folks, is we stutter.org
and that's s t u t t e r.orgwe stutter.org One of the things,
Jamie, that I think really isanother feather in your cap for being
(21:50):
psa. Not psa, but the Gosh, Igot to get my acronyms correct. Or
the NSA parent of the year.But it should could be the NSA Legislator
of the year is you did thismedical alert kind of thing and talk
about that. Because if you'restopped by law enforcement and you
(22:10):
stutter, holy smokes, it's badenough. So how did this come about
and what's the result?
It came about when my daughterwas 14. For those of you who are
familiar with stuttering,saying your name and your birthday
can be a struggle. So we wentto the dmv. I was thinking this is
(22:33):
another tool that will helpher if I get her a state ID So if
she gets a block in the middleof sharing her name and birthday
that she can hand them thestate id. So we went through the
paperwork, did the process,and I said to the lady behind the
counter, can you please put anotification that she is a person
(22:53):
who stutters? So she served.She got quiet. She was like. She
started looking. She had this.And then she said, we don't have
anything for that. I was like,oh, baby, I'll be back, you little
girl. I said, I will be backbefore her 16th birthday. You will
have one for my daughter.Because, as you mentioned, law enforcement,
(23:18):
driving while black is a reality.
Correct.
So driving while black andstuttering. I didn't want to have
to get my daughter out of acompromising situation. I want law
enforcement to be able torecognize that they're about to encounter
a person that may look awaywhen she speaks, that may have blocks,
(23:39):
so you don't mistakenly thinkshe's drunk, mistakenly think she's
being disrespectful, Beingdisrespectful by looking away. But
you have already knowing,walking to the car, that you're encountering
somebody with a verbal diversity.
So what does it look like onthe license? What's the. What does
(24:00):
it say?
I think it's a red cross witha sex.
Little alert, a little medicalinsignia, and it has the. The acronym
of speech impair. And that washard for both Jamie and I to swallow
because. And I'm sure forMolly, too, and because we don't
view stuttering as animpairment, but as a verbal diversity.
(24:21):
And that's part of the nsa,that is okay to stutter, but for
the general public. But forthe general public and for the betterment
of this. This medical alert,that's what would fit on a driver's
license. So it's a little redinsignia, and it has the tag of speech
impair on it. Do you want totalk more about that?
So what'd you have to do toget that done? Did you have to go
(24:43):
to Jeff City, or do you haveto lobby your state representative
or senator?
That was spring break when Iwent to the DMV when she was 14.
So April 2024, I got on mycomputer and I sent out three emails,
and I got a response. I said,chris, I'm doing this. We got to
get this done. Before sheturned 16, the Missouri association.
(25:06):
For Speech and Speech LanguageHearing Association.
It's too many letters.
Misha.
The Ms.
Speech Language Hearing Association.
Yes. It got to theirpresident, CEO, president, executive
director. And she grabbed theball, and she was like, I never thought
of it. Let's get this Going.And she said it may not happen before
(25:28):
her 16th birthday, but we'regoing to do our best. Eight days
after her 16th birthday.
Oh, my.
It went into effect. You talkabout somebody hooping and hollering.
I ran downstairs. I was like,go get your license. I can't wait.
(25:52):
Those are some things that thelegislature should be doing.
Yeah.
And it's great that anorganization was able to proactively
because they probably havetentacles into the legislative process,
lobbyists and people likethat, and have the ear of individuals
like that in Jeff City. Butkudos to our legislature for getting
(26:12):
it done.
Dmv. Yes. It didn't have to gothrough legislation. That was the
first thing we did. Yeah.
That's one better.
Yeah. Okay. I take back what Isaid then.
I'm in Jefferson City all thetime. There are great people there.
So what happened was theywere. The DMV already has a list
(26:33):
of disabilities, so it wasadded to that list.
Gotcha.
That kind of made the processless tedious. I didn't have to go
through a vault. It has to be.The education part has to happen
now.
Right.
So we already have itestablished. We just need to go out
and educate those who.
I'm just thinking how manypeople know that they should even
(26:55):
say that when they're at the dmv?
To get very many. That's why Iknow we're trying to get the word
out.
Maybe we could do some PSAsfor them.
I think that'd be great.
You guys stick around afterthe show.
Well, public service announcements.
Yeah. So the process went. Ittook a long time. But unlike the
state of Illinois and state ofTexas, who had laws that were passed,
(27:18):
when we worked with Misha andtheir lobbyist and their legislative
person, they said, we canreally pivot and just go through
the DMV and it's going to bemuch more streamlined. And it doesn't.
The process now is. There is aspot on the website for a medical
alert. You have to. Youcontact your physician and they would
fill out a form, and then thatform would. You would bring that
(27:41):
with you to the dmv, and thenthat would allow for you to have
that insignia.
And I know we're here to talk.
About stuttering, but the coolthing about this speech impairment
is it doesn't necessarily meanjust people who stutter to benefit
from this. It can mean peoplewho've had a stroke and might have
a difficult time with gettingtheir words out. It can be people
(28:01):
with a developmental speechdelay who have still some difficulty
communicating with apraxia.Speech, where the motor pattern of
getting out that speech,especially in a time of heightened
awareness, when you're maybein an accident and you're dealing
with a first responder, yourspeech is already going to be a little
bit jumpy. It's really goingto be a benefit to not just the stuttering
(28:22):
community, but to adultswho've had strokes or people with
Parkinson's who might have alittle bit of a shaky sound to their
voice, people with some vocalfold dysfunction that might sound
a little hoarse. So it, itruns the gamut, which is what I think
is really the most impactabout this is it doesn't just pigeonhole
into stuttering. While it wascertainly stuttering that was created,
(28:46):
Jane, you really started thisfor stuttering. But your work with
the elderly in St. Louis,really, you felt very passionate
about also including allpeople who communicate differently.
That makes sense. Yeah, thatmakes perfect sense.
Wonderful.
We're going to take a briefbreak. We'll be right back for our
next segment of the show.You're listening to St. Louis in
tune with Arnold Stricker andMark Langston on the US Radio Network.
(29:23):
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communities. Welcome Corps isa public private partnership that
is inspired by what Americansrepresent to so many around the world.
(30:27):
A beacon of hope and refuge.All it takes is a helping hand. Are
you ready to learn more?Contact the International Institute
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or call 314-773/9090.
(31:00):
The NSA has taught me it'sokay to stutter.
I began stuttering around theage of 4 years old and have discovered
this community in the past sixyears. And I'm absolutely in love
with all the aspects of it.
They are incredibly acceptingand welcoming. It's more like a gathering,
(31:21):
a homecoming.
This is our fourth conference,and as the parent of a child who
stutters, this is really thehighlight of the year for him. I
hear from a lot of people andespecially from my child, it's the
one time of the year whereeveryone sounds like them.
It was the very first time that.
Like, I went to a hotel and.
(31:41):
Everyone was stuttering andthey were like, stuttering loud.
And I'm like, oh, my God.
At times in our daily life, we.
Have to continuously fight tobe heard.
Fight to have, like, ouropinions matter.
I was just always trying to.To hide my stutter. I did absolutely
anything possible to notstutter. Nobody in my life ever told
(32:05):
me it's okay to stutter. Itwas always making fun of a stutter
or talk slower, go to speechtherapy so that you don't stutter.
I would shrink into myself,doing everything.
I could to take up as little.
Space as possible physically,emotionally, and verbally.
(32:25):
I wanted to be invisible.
I met somebody who stutteredfor the first time when I was 16
years old. But that was donefrom a speech therapy standpoint,
and the emphasis was on howfluent can I speak. I found out about
the National Stutteringassociation, and this has become
my second fifth family. Andit's a place where I feel I can be
(32:49):
my friend, self.
I first found out about theNSA after I hit a pretty hard rock
bottom, and I was justgoogling, why can't I say my name?
I came here and I startedwalking to the workshops, and I felt
(33:11):
myself start to almost crybecause I was just so nervous. And
I told myself, I was like, no,I'm going to stay.
For many people, it could betheir first time finding another
person who stutters, learningmore about themselves and accepting
that they're a person whostutters too. And that's a very scary
process, a very scary journeyto go through. And NSA provides this
(33:33):
nice base and support that isrun by the people itself. And that's
just what the most beautifuland powerful thing of it is. Connecting
with the stuttering communityhas been one of the most important
parts of my own journey as aperson who stutters. When I'm able
to connect again with thecommunity, hear other people who
stutter and relate to eachother, that does wonders for my own
(33:55):
progress and my own journey asa person who stutters and my own
self acceptance.
Seeing my stutter in adifferent way, something I never
heard much as in the last 60plus years, that you are strong,
you are valuable, you arebeautiful, you are interesting. I
want to hear what you have.
To say, which is welcome.After 60 years of feeling like I
(34:19):
was walking alone through thisjourney and.
Really realizing I'm not, itis so, so essential to realize that
you are not alone. Havingyoung kids know they aren't alone
(34:40):
from the beginning is crucialto their successful development overall.
Being at the conferencereminded me that I am enough. It
reminded me that yes, mystutter is a part of who I am, but
thank you. The Just for Girlsworkshop, it was led by sisters who
stutter.
And I think what the generaltheme ended up being was just about
(35:04):
confidence, being a girl, ateen girl, especially in society
like today, where perfection is.
Expected by other people.
And so I do think that a.
Lot of the teens come to the.
Conference to find thatsisterhood or brotherhood.
Just kids their own age that understand.
What they're going through.
One of the biggest things isjust like hearing other people who
stutter, that just likedissolves the stigma around it.
(35:26):
The NSA is for anyone from a.
Kid to a seasoned voice, to anSLP to an ally, a parent. The NSA
welcomes everyone. I firstcame to an NSA conference in 2015.
I was a brand new SLP.
It really changed my frame of mind.
(35:47):
In terms of how to work withpeople who stutter. This is the most
friendly conference I've everbeen to. Everyone here is so friendly
and both the people whostutter here, the SLPs that are here,
everybody who's here, it'sjust been this really warm community
and I just, I feel a part of.
It and this is just my first time.
So I would say just do it. Forsure you'll love it. After I leave
(36:09):
this conference, I know that Iwill have more confidence just after
one day. It was really scarycoming here for the first time, but
I'm so happy that I was ableto come, come because it has truly
been such a life changingexperience and it's, I'm, it's. I
feel so blessed and so grateful.
To have so many like amazingpeople around me.
(36:30):
We were listening to arecording of the National Stuttering
association conference.Individuals who attended that and
the National StutteringAssociation. The NSA is the largest
nonprofit organization in theworld dedicated to bringing hope
and empowerment to childrenand adults who stutter, their families
and professionals throughsupport, education, advocacy and
(36:52):
research. We've been talkingin studio to Christine Rose, Molly
Porzel, and JamieSaunders-Anglin about stuttering.
And there are some localsupport groups that the NSA has,
local chapter groups, and I'mthinking for parents and for kids
and maybe even educators.Let's talk a little bit about that
(37:12):
so our listeners know thatthey can check this out. Matter of
fact, westudter.org is thewebsite, folks.
Yep. So in St. Louis, we arelucky that we have both an adult
chapter and a family chapter.I run the family chapter, so I know
more from that side. The adultchapter is also great. But working
with kids, having kids whostutter, doing the family side was
(37:35):
really important to me. Andthe video that we saw was from the
national conference whereeveryone gets together, you're surrounded
by people who stutter. And Ithink that my family attended that
and it was like, oh, we needthis in our community. Like, this
can't be a once a year thingthat, oh, we see these people and
then we shift off to all ofour different spots around the country.
(37:55):
We need it. There's people inSt. Louis who stutter, and we need
to find those people. And itstarted as we had a kids chapter
and a teen chapter. And morerecently, we decided those two don't
have to be separate. Like, thekids learn so much from the teens.
The teens gained so much frominteracting with the kids. And I
feel like I'm backtracking alittle bit. But I also want to say
that this chapter is designedfor kids who stutter, teens who stutter,
(38:20):
their families. But it'swelcoming to everybody. It is welcoming
to allies, it's welcoming topeople who want to learn more, to
educators, to speech languagepathologists. It's not a closed off
community. That's if you don'tstutter, you're not welcome. Like,
we want people to know aboutstuttering. It's beneficial for the
kids and the parents to, tofind that community. And we try to
(38:41):
keep it really relaxed andmellow. It's not, you're not gonna
come to this meeting and we'renot gonna spew facts at you. It's
really a chance for kids,teens, families to see each other
and feel that feeling of ifyou stutter, you are not alone.
How often do they meet?
So our family chapter meetsmonthly and we've started a new system
where we rotate our meetingsto Try and reach more people. I know
(39:05):
that sometimes it's hard forour city folks to get out to the
county. It's hard for countyfolks to come in. So we're on a RO
schedule where we'll meet in.We'll meet at St. Louis University,
and then we'll have a specialevent that might be somewhere. Our
last one was a summerbarbecue, and then we meet at Chicken
and pickle in St. Charles.They really generously have donated
(39:27):
space to us.
Chicken and Pickle. Thatsounds good.
Yeah.
So once every three months, wemeet up. And you can get food if
you want. If not, there'sgames, there's pickleball, and it's
just a chance to really buildcommunity, meet people and see yourself
and your voice reflected in others.
How long are these meetings generally?
They're about an hour and ahalf. They're scheduled. So if you
(39:49):
check out our listing, if youlook up westutter.org and you can
find the St. Louis familychapter, we have it broken down so
that it's easy to figure outwhich where we're at, which month.
And our meetings run from6:30pm to 8pm People are welcome
to come and go anytime withinthat window that works for them.
And the kids in the parentmeetings are the same time, same
(40:09):
place, or are they different?
Yeah. So our family chapter iskids and parents all together. That's
all the same time and sameplace. The adult chapter, which is
separate, always meets at sluand they also meet monthly.
Okay.
Just for adults who stutter orsupporters who want to attend those
meetings.
And you can go towestutter.org and there's a link
(40:30):
on there. Is that what I'munderstanding? Yeah.
Under we stutter.org underevents. That's where you can find
a lot of the special events,because there are events there are
on now in this day and age ofzoom. There are also online opportunities
for kids to gather virtuallyand teens together virtually. I saw
that there's a group, Sisterswho stutter, and it's teenage girls
(40:52):
who stutter. There's workresources for interviewing, dating,
stuttering while older.There's a whole bunch of different
resources, but under that,westudter.org if you look for find
the chapter, that's where youwill find the information about.
Then they have a chapterlocator map. I'm looking at that
right now. There's one onLindell Boulevard, 3750 Lindell Boulevard.
(41:13):
That's the St. Louis adultschapter. And that's run by Chad Minisi.
He's actually the chair of theboard of the NSA. So we're lucky
to have him right here in St.Louis. And we meet on St. Louis University's
campus the fourth Monday ofevery month from 6:30 to 8:30. And
we're always wanting morepeople. It's not that it's a small.
(41:36):
It's about six people thatcome regularly. But we're always
wanting to reach out tocollege students, adults of all ages,
to come and find theircommunity there. And again, kind
of like what Molly said, it'sa very low key. They gather and talk
and chat about all thesuccesses they have in life and any
challenges that they mighthave faced because they stutter and
(41:58):
kind of work together as ateam. So it's a really. It's a great
community.
And you've experienced these,I'm sure.
Yes, I've attended all ofthese. I especially like the one
at Chicken and Pickle. Thatwas a lot of fun.
I didn't know it waspickleball. I get it now. I like
pickles, so I thought it was pickle.
I think it's important forparents because I consider myself
(42:22):
an ally of the stutteringcommunity because we have to, in
order for our kids to besuccessful with their stuttering
and their acceptance, we haveto be accepting. And that's the hard
part. Because as a parent, wewant to make our children's lives
so much easier. And just witha driver's license, I can't change
(42:45):
her stuttering. I can't fixit, or it doesn't need to be fixed.
In my mind, she's fearfullyand wonderfully made just the way
she is. But I think for me, Ihad to accept that I have a child
that has a stutter. And then Ihad to put a plan in place and meet
(43:05):
people who were in the samespace that I was. And we had to encourage
each other that our kids areokay just the way they are. And we
needed that environmentbecause as Chris mentioned earlier,
sometimes the speech pathologycommunity gave out a little bit of
(43:25):
the wrong information.
False hope.
False hope. I think as more ofus realize as our kids get older.
I've gone through preschool,my daughter's 16. I've gone through
middle school, which was ahorrible time for a child who started
and she says high school ismuch easier.
Let me ask you this. As youwere talking, I was thinking, how
(43:47):
has the education communityresponded to the information that
you've given them about yourdaughter or that she's given them?
One thing that has happened isthat Octavia has learned to Construct
a letter that she emails toall of her teachers saying, I'm a
person who stutters. These arethe things I need to be successful
(44:10):
in the classroom. And myapproach to my daughter stuttering
is, this is your journey. I'mjust your co pilot. Tell me what
you need and I'll go out andget it for you. So we kind of work
as a team and so if I don'tknow anything, I go, hey, Chris.
This is bouncing aroundOctavia's head and she'll reach out
(44:31):
to Chris and we'll cometogether and try to make it work
for her. As far as educationgoes, most of the teachers have been
really receptive, especiallyin high school. I get, oh my God,
I got that email. Thank you somuch. It takes a while for information
from the special educationdepartment to trickle down to the
(44:53):
teachers. So when you walk inthe door and get an email from a
student, right, telling youthat this is what I need, they really
appreciate it.
That's a big deal. Becauseeven a lot of what I would call non
stutterers have trouble withadvocacy on their own. And that's
something that's a learnedskill, frankly, that you need to
speak up for yourself.
That's true.
(45:14):
On the very first sessions intherapy is working on that self advocacy,
knowing what's happening intheir own body when they stutter,
knowing what their, how theirbody makes speech, what does the
speech machine entail, andthen being able to educate others
about their speech and whatthey need. And looking ahead, October
(45:35):
22nd is internationalstuttering Awareness Day. And so
a lot of SLPs out there and alot of students in schools are busy
preparing special activitiesfor that day in school. I know at
City Garden that Jamiementioned that I also work at, we
have a big day onInternational Stuttering Awareness
Day and that can look at thepeople who stutter, giving classroom
(45:58):
presentations to their peers.So breaking down that stigma of what
it is to be a person whostuttered, even even at the kindergarten
first grade level, we havefirst graders who are standing in
front of the class talkingabout how they speak and how they
speak differently and whatthey need their teachers and their
listeners to do. And so Ithink that day is set aside to, for
(46:20):
the world to know that it is aday to celebrate this verbal diversity.
And going back to your pointabout educators, there's lots of
resources on that NSA websitespecifically designed for educators
and it's really solid researchbacked information.
Did having President Biden,who is a stutterer, did that help
(46:40):
with the awareness or theStigma of it at all?
Yes and no. Yes and no.
Yeah.
Molly was talking about acovert stutterer being someone who
has to hide and pick their words.
He seems to do that, and he.
Does that very well. And Ithink a lot of the times when he
was being made fun of in themedia were times when he was using
(47:01):
that moment to try to figureout what word to say so he wouldn't
stutter on it. He has come outand really embraced his stuttering.
He invited a young person whostuttered to talk at the Democratic
National Convention and thenco wrote a book with Braden about
his stutter. And that's reallypowerful for kids to see. So, yeah,
(47:24):
it both helped and perpetuatedthe idea that to be a successful
speaker, you might need topick your words wisely so you don't
stutter on them, when in fact,you can be anything you want to be
and stutter openly. And it'sthat hiding that tends to intensify
the stuttering. So if we cankeep kids, young kids, from trying
(47:45):
to hide their stutter and becovert, that gets rid of some of
that struggle, and then theycan stutter openly. And that's what
we want. We want to peel backthe onion and let them stutter how
they were organically made to do.
Kids can be really harsh andcruel, but kids can be very forgiving
and loving too. And ifpresented with the information, I
(48:07):
can see a first graderstanding up in front of the class
saying, hey, this is who I amand this is what I struggle with.
And the rest of the kids inthe class saying, yeah, we get that.
And then defending thatstudent when they are challenged
or made fun of on theplayground or something. So it's
kudos to you guys.
I've never had it in my psycheto make fun of people on any of these,
(48:31):
but yeah, it's just hurts meto know that people would make fun
of someone like that. And it'sjust. It's uncalled for, not needed.
So I want to give the WebsiteAgain, it's westutter.org westutter.org
and you can also check out.That's the website for the National
Stuttering Association. Checkout, folks, the local chapters, very
(48:54):
important. October 22nd. Ifyou're listening and you have a child
who stutters, or maybe you'rea parent or you're an educator and
you want to bring thisinformation to your school, check
out the website. It's veryimportant. 79 million people stutter
worldwide.
Wow, that's a lot.
That's a Lot.
Yeah, that's a lot of people.
I want to give you guys anopen invitation. Anytime you want
(49:16):
to come on and talk about anyrecent developments or anything like
that, please feel free tocontact me if you're going to be
advocating more and gettingmore of that stuff done. Jamie, if
you're working with kids andyou're like, wow, this is really
working. And Christine, any ofthe latest research, please feel
free to contact us. And we'dlove to have you guys on here to
talk about that because thisis. This has really been an informative
(49:38):
show.
Oh, yeah. I have a veryimportant show, I think.
Thank you ladies for coming in.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for theopportunity. I really appreciate
it.
You bet. You guys canparticipate in our couple other things
we have here. We have aportion of the show called Mental
Floss.
Okay.
Ben Franklin's formaleducation ended at 10 years old.
Mark.
What?
(50:00):
See, doesn't give many of ushope for our current generation.
True. I know it.
Newborn babies have nearly 100more bones than full grown adults.
Knew that. I never knew that.
I never knew that either. Whena man allegedly found a dead mouse
in his can of Mountain Dew,Pepsi had an expert claim in an affidavit
(50:23):
that the drink was so acidicit would have dissolved the mouse
after 30 days. I thought thatwas Coca Cola, not Mountain Dew.
Make me reevaluate.
Have you seen people thatdrink mountain their teeth? What
happens to them? Never mind.Just kidding.
Okay, I'll skip that one.Hollywood starlet Hedy Lamar is often
(50:44):
called the mother of WI fi.She helped invent a version of the
frequency hopping system thatled to the creation of gps, Bluetooth
and the wireless Internet.
Get out of here.
That's cool.
Wow.
Okay.
You are a wealth of information.
I'm just reading off of the Internet.
Okay.
Don't believe everything youhear, Mark. Okay. What days of the
(51:04):
day do you have?
I got a couple. Just a few. Itis National Chewing Gum Day, y'.
All.
Chew gum, anybody? I had toquit. I. My fillings would come out
with a chewing bowl all thetime. Did you ever do that? International
Translation Day. I guess we'retranslating here.
Yes.
National Puppy Mill SurvivorDay. That's a nice one. Pet Tricks
(51:27):
Day. You have pets? Do yourpets do any tricks?
No, I'm. I just am glad thatthey follow directions sometimes.
Okay. National Orange ShirtDay. Do you have an orange shirt?
I do not.
I know I can't.
If you're in Tennessee, youwill. Yeah, I guess Syracuse.
I would never do it. Icouldn't do it. I just can't do that.
I don't have a whole lot ofdays. International podcast days
(51:49):
today.
Oh, how about.
Yeah, this is going to be apodcast. It'll be on the radio.
Stlmtune.com and it'll also bea podcast.
On YouTube and Facebook andjust I guess anywhere you want to.
Where. What platforms can youfind this on?
Every platform.
Every platform. For instance,an example would be.
An example would be. Oh, gosh,you're asking me. And my brain's
(52:13):
going, okay, you go to Amazon.We're on Amazon.
Yeah, Apple.
Apple.
Okay.
For sure. You go to. Let mepull up the website.
Okay.
And I can tell you.
And I'll tell you one lastdate after you get done and we'll
wrap it up with that day.National Love. People day is today.
Love. That should be every day.
I know we don't want to gettoo moony here, but yeah, could use
(52:36):
a little bit more of that.
Okay, Apple Podcasts, Castro,Amazon Music, YouTube, Pandora, iHeartRadio,
Radio Public Spotify, RSSFeed. You can get that Odyssey cast
box, Deezer Player fm.
Wow.
Castro, Castro.
Not like the dictator Castro.
We're not from Cuba.
Okay. I don't think I've everheard it. That's okay. But national
(52:57):
podcast Day, so cool. Go findthis STL intune podcast.
That's right, Mark. I once sawa 3,000 year old oil stain.
Huh?
It was from ancient Greece.
My God, you guys. Our guestsare leaving.
The wife said, if a tigerattacks your mother in law and your
(53:18):
wife at the same time, whowill you save? The husband said,
of course, the tiger. Very feware left now. The husband is now
in icu. What kind of. Theseare your kinds of jokes here, Mark.
What kind of doctor is Dr.Pepper? A physician. What's the difference
(53:39):
between Black Eyed Peas and chickpeas?
I don't know.
Black Eyed Peas can sing us asong, chickpeas can hum us one.
Very weird.
It's bad.
Strange. I don't know why y'all should.
I love the phrase bear withme. Because it can either mean be
patient or the zoo heist was asuccess. And when I eat a rack of
(54:07):
ribs, I only eat the 2nd, 3rd,5th, 7th and 11th ribs.
Why is that?
I prefer prime ribs. There wasonce a king who was only 12 inches
tall. He was a terrible king,but he made a great ruler.
(54:28):
Oh, man. All right.
Oh, Arnold. And intelligenceis like underwear. Great to have,
but no need to show it off.
It's got to be over. Have yourun out yet?
No, I just got an emotionalsupport animal. It's a pig. Not the
whole pig, okay? It's bacon.
(54:51):
Why are you laughing? Don'tlaugh. Don't encourage him.
And it is October soon.Tomorrow it will be October, which
means that all the cobwebs anddust in my house will soon become
Halloween decorations.
I like that. That's good. Getthe horse out of here. Okay.
And out of all of the martialarts, karaoke inflicts the most pain.
(55:14):
No kidding. That's for sure.
That's all for this hour,folks. Thanks for listening. If you've
enjoyed this episode, you canlisten to additional shows@stlintune.com
consider leaving a review onour website, Apple Podcasts, Podchaser,
or your preferred podcastplatform. Your feedback helps us
reach more listeners andcontinue to grow. I want to thank
(55:35):
Bob Berthicel for our thememusic, our sponsor, Better Rate Mortgage.
Our guests, Christine Rose,Molly Porzal and Jamie Saunders Anglin.
And we want to thank our cohost, Mark Langston. And folks, thank
you for being a part of ourcommunity of curious minds. St. Louis
in tune is a production ofMotif Media Group and the US Radio
Network. Remember to keepseeking, keep learning, walk worthy,
and let your light shine. ForSt. Louis in tune, I'm Arnold Stricker.
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