July 3, 2024 • 56 mins
What if one television show could shape the educational aspirations of an entire generation? Join us as we explore this fascinating possibility with the brilliant Dr. Dawnn Lewis, best known for her role as Julissa Vincent on "A Different World." Dubbed a "culture texturizer," Dr. Lewis shares her journey of enriching our cultural landscape. We discuss her achievements, the inspiration she has provided across generations, and her continued impact on today's society.
Take a nostalgic trip through Brooklyn and beyond as Dr. Lewis recounts her early years growing up with a single mother who instilled a passion for art and performance. From local stages to national fame, her story is one of resilience, determination, and the transformative power of representation. Reflecting on shared experiences at Talent Unlimited High School in NYC and the University of Miami, we discuss the challenges of navigating college life and confronting racism, while pioneering new opportunities for students of color.
Celebrate the enduring legacy of "A Different World" with us, as Dr. Lewis recounts the behind-the-scenes stories of writing its iconic theme song and transitioning to "Hangin' with Mr. Cooper." Discover her ongoing commitment to empowering underserved youth through her A New Day Foundation, and the importance of joy and celebration in our lives. Join us for a heartfelt, inspiring, and joyous conversation that honors the contributions of a true cultural icon.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sanya (00:07):
This is not the only when I was coming up we had to go
outside the city.
We had to go travel, go out oftown, be down doors, like this
was the first time Bill was evergone on the set and he said
here comes the token dirt boy.
And out of my mouth I said Fyou Fans are asking for a
positive women and you know,with family and business, it's
(00:29):
like you know that's what webring to the show and yet still
it's like oh, she's boring.
Dawnn Lewis (00:35):
It's my real story.
This is really who I am.
Sanya (00:37):
I made, I build myself off a dollar dream without a
man's help, without a basketballplayer, or a dream without a
man's help, without a basketballplayer.
Dawnn Lewis (00:50):
Particularly the patriarchal boxes that white,
cisgender males have defined forus should be how we define
ourselves.
Sanya (00:53):
That's what they were saying on the street.
I didn't say it.
That's what they were saying onthe street, the streets, the
avenues and the boulevard.
Hey, hey, hey.
You're now tuned into anotheramazing edition of Sonya on Air.
I'm your host, sonya Hudson-Pete, and I know I've been gone for
(01:15):
a minute.
I had to get my life togetherbecause you know how life just
be lifin' Child.
So you know what I'm going todo.
I'm going to give myself around of applause for pulling
through, won't it do it?
And it'll do it for you too.
So hit the round of applausefor me.
While I let it marinate, I willtell you something.
Do not wait for anyone toacknowledge all of the storms
(01:43):
that you have navigated throughand you have a smile on your
face to say God pushed methrough, won't it do it?
So let's give the round ofapplause again.
I love having fun, love havingfun.
But before we get to today'sguest, I need you to do me a
quick favor.
It costs free 99, nothing outof your pocketbook.
(02:05):
Okay, All I need you to do issubscribe Sonya On Air streams
across every major streamingplatform.
Did I say every major streamingplatform.
Yes, every major streamingplatform.
So make sure that you subscribe.
And if you're watching this onYouTube, not only subscribe, but
make sure you hit thenotification bell.
(02:26):
That way, every time I uploadan all new Sonya On Air
celebrity interview, unpackingtheir pivotal moments and
milestones, you'll be the firstones to know.
Now on to today's guest.
Let me tell you something.
I'm humbled and I am honoredwhen I tell you about today's
(02:46):
guest.
I came up with a new term as Iwas researching her and just
trying to figure out how toengage in this conversation.
She's accomplished.
So so me tell you what thatmeans.
What that means is thispersonality, this icon, this
(03:15):
living legend.
She has added layers.
She has added the firmness, thethickness, the softness, the
zest, the fierceness, theintellect, the power to culture,
because she was one of the maincharacters on.
(03:37):
I know my parents love me,stand behind me come what may.
Yes, a different world.
I have none other than DawnLewis who played Julissa Vincent
.
Come on, you know Julissa, youknow Julissa Vincent.
On A Different World, a showthat really let the community
(03:58):
know college is possible.
College is possible.
It is accessible.
I know watching that show as ahigh school girl growing up in
Brooklyn, new York.
It reminded me and it confirmedthat college was definitely
possible.
So it really inspired ageneration.
(04:19):
Well, it inspired my generationand that show is so powerful
that it is relevant today.
So I have Dawn Lewis.
Matter of fact, let me rewind,she is Dr Dawn Lewis.
The work that she has done isso amazing and we're going to
(04:39):
unpack all of those layersbecause, like I mentioned, she
is a culture texturizer.
When we have this conversation,trust me, there's going to be
so much information that youweren't even aware about, and
this is the purpose of theseconversations.
On Sonya On Air.
Once again, I want to unpackcelebrity pivotal moments and
(05:00):
their milestones.
We watch so many of thesecelebrities on television, their
milestones.
We watch so many of thesecelebrities on television, on
film, we listen to their music,we read their books, but we need
to know how did you get there?
How do you remain relevant?
Share the secrets of yoursuccess so that our communities
can expand and once againbelieve it is accessible.
(05:23):
So we're going to bring Dr DawnLewis in in just a few moments,
but, like I said, please makesure that you subscribe, make
sure that you like and make surethat you reshare.
So we're going to take a quickcommercial break and I promise
we'll be right back with Dr DawnLewis.
Stay tuned.
(05:45):
Let me tell you something BeforeI even start this conversation.
Dr Dawn Lewis, I am so honored.
I am so humbled no, no, Ireally am.
Wait, that's my daughtercalling me, because she knew I
was about to have thisconversation, because I love to
talk to individuals that I don'tnot only poured into my life
(06:06):
without even knowing it, but Iwas able to show my daughter you
as an example, because to me,you are a culture texturizer.
I came up with that term, yeah,yeah, I came up with that term
just for you, came up with thatterm just for you, and I want to
(06:28):
share with you why I'm callingyou a culture texturizer.
The culture is what it is, butwhat you have done and I don't
know if you know that you'vedone this you've added layers,
you've added shape, you've addedfirmness, softness, education,
fierceness and beauty to theculture.
So for that I call you aculture texturizer.
Thank you for your presence.
Dawnn Lewis (06:49):
My absolute pleasure.
I'm so glad that you wanted totalk today.
It's a pleasure to meet you.
Come on Brooklyn.
Sanya (06:55):
Yes, that was the first thing.
I'm a Brooklyn girl, you're aBrooklyn girl.
What part of Brooklyn did you?
Dawnn Lewis (07:01):
grow up in Bed-Stuy , born and raised in Bed-Stuy,
we moved six times, but alwaysin Brooklyn, from Bed-Stuy to
Park Slope, back to Bed-Stuy, toCrown Heights, up into Utica
for about three months while wewere waiting to move into our
house, and we moved in Flatbush,about five, six blocks from
(07:22):
Brooklyn College in Flatbush,about five, six blocks from
Brooklyn College.
Sanya (07:32):
Wow, Wow.
So what type of Brooklyn girlwere you or are you?
I am the true epitome of the LLCool J song Around the Way Girl
.
What type of Brooklyn girl areyou?
Dawnn Lewis (07:36):
I'm a kind of around the way.
Girl, with a touch of Europeanfinesse.
I've been where I've been youknow and I'm exposed to what
I've been exposed to.
So at the heart of me is thelet's just, can we just get to
it?
Person, and what you see iswhat you get person.
But on the other hand, do youalso learn how to play certain
(08:01):
for lack of a better term games?
Yeah, there are so many aspectsof life that are games that
people play but it's reallyabout strategy.
It's really about how do youpresent.
How do you present what youpresent, to whom and at what
time, in order to achieve whatit is you want to achieve.
And that's never about beingfake.
It's about being genuine butusing wisdom and discernment
(08:26):
about when to do, what to dothat you are trying to
accomplish.
Sanya (08:31):
So I love it.
I love it, A true testament ofa Brooklyn girl and what I want
to remind people of, becausewe're both from Brooklyn the
cultural landscape of Brooklyn.
There are so many institutionsin Brooklyn that introduced me
to the arts.
At what age were you introducedto the arts and how were you
introduced to the arts?
Dawnn Lewis (08:51):
I was introduced to the arts when I was very, very
young and I got initiallyintroduced through television.
My family's from South America,so I'm the first female in my
family to be born in the States.
I have three brothers.
Ultimately from the time youwere eight, nine, raised by a
single mom, so we stayed insidea lot.
(09:12):
That's not.
That's not true.
We were inside to be safe butwanted to be outside.
Because when I was growing up,you wanted to be outside, you
wanted to be playing in thestreet with with your friends,
whether it was handballs, stickballs, skellies, whatever hot
water low water, hot peas andbutter, whatever it was,
hopscotch, double dutch,whatever it was.
So, my brothers, we had thatsense of community.
(09:35):
So we couldn't afford to go tothe theater, really didn't
afford to go to the movies muchso it was about television.
So I got drawn to musicaltheater, musical movies on
television, those old movieswhere I would learn all the
dance numbers, all the songs.
So I was singing by the time Iwas four, did my first concert
at four.
It sucked because I got onstage and was so afraid I forgot
(09:57):
the words.
I was amazing in rehearsal.
You should have seen me inrehearsal, but when I got on
stage in front of all the people, I froze.
My first introduction to majortheater was the Brooklyn Academy
of Music.
My mom took me to see a dancerecital that I later learned
where her dear friend from whereshe worked at Brookdale had a
(10:17):
daughter that was in that danceschool.
And I was like mom, I want todo this so badly Because
everything I did I had to dowith my brothers or I wasn't
allowed to do it.
I had to stay in the house.
So I was this real tomboy, me,tall for my age, in the middle
of all these boys all the time.
So my mother said I've got toget my daughter out from in the
middle of all these boys.
(10:38):
So she put me in dance class,singing at four, dancing at
seven, acting at 11.
That was the beginning for me.
By the time I was 11 or 12,something like that is when they
opened the Billie HolidayTheater over at Restless
Duration yes, a half from myhouse.
So I wanted to.
(10:59):
I knew if I could be on thestage at the Billy.
I had arrived, and now youradvisory board.
The first show I auditioned for.
I wrote my own monologue andthey said how old are you, baby?
It was the show called Young,gifted and Broke.
I didn't get it, I was tooyoung, but whatever I just I was
(11:24):
determined, I was committed.
So that's been my journey formost of my life.
Started professionallyperforming, I was on the stage
at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, that same stage that I was
excited by and enticed by.
I was on that stage by the timeI was nine.
I was dancing point, jazz,ballet, tap, and haven't stopped
(11:49):
since.
So singer writer, lead singerin my own band, at 14, had my
first record released, and I was21.
So that was how the rest of itcame.
Sanya (12:01):
TV just blew up first Wow , that's a similar story, you
know just watching you ontelevision.
This is why I love to havethese conversations, because
when we watch people like you ontelevision we feel as if we're
far removed and there are nosimilarities.
But in speaking to you just now, very, very similar expressed
to my mom that I wanted to beinvolved in the arts.
(12:22):
So she started me off in danceand acting classes in the fourth
grade.
My brother also went torestoration for acting classes
and also the Paul RobesonTheater in Brooklyn.
We went there.
We went to performing arts highschool.
Where did you go?
You went to PA.
(12:42):
No, actually I went to TalentUnlimited.
Talent Unlimited, Okay.
Unlimited, okay.
Yes, because we had a travelingtroupe section that Performing
Arts LaGuardia didn't have.
So I wanted to tour for sixmonths out of the year which
Talent Unlimited had andLaGuardia didn't.
So I chose that school.
Dawnn Lewis (12:59):
That was where I went.
I went to Music and Art when itwas still up in Harlem, before
it moved, before the buildingsjoined.
Pa was on 46.
Music and art was on 135th andconvent, and they they were
always one school but never hada building large enough to put
everyone in.
So they finally got the leaseto the building that's in
Lincoln Center, right across thestreet from Juilliard, so now
(13:20):
all of the students are in onefacility.
But yeah, that was where I wentto high school.
Sanya (13:25):
So when you went to college, did you still major in
the arts?
I did.
Dawnn Lewis (13:30):
I did when I was in high school.
I'm still playing cello.
I played cello for about sevenyears, singing opera, and I went
to the University of Miami.
I had applied to OberlinBerkeley Cal Arts University of
Hawaii.
I just really wanted to get outof New York.
But all those otherconservatories, while they were
(13:51):
so reputable, you weren'tallowed to perform until you
were a junior or senior.
But I had been performing sinceI was a kid, so I didn't see
the sense.
The University of Miami had avery progressive vocal program
where you could start workingright away as a freshman.
That was where I went.
So I left New York.
I was 16 when I graduated highschool and started college and
(14:12):
went as an applied voice majorand learned that half the
courses they wanted me to takewere courses I had already had
in high school.
So I didn't see the need intaking those like sight singing
and music theory et cetera.
So I happened to buy a pencilthat had an eraser and I was
taught how to use it.
So I erased half of what theyinstructed me to take in dance
(14:36):
classes, acting classes, all ofthose things I was already
accustomed to doing.
About one month into myfreshman semester, I got called
into the dean's office and gotthe speech.
Young lady, I'm going to saythis to you one time we were
reluctant to admit you becauseof your age, but we will not
stand for you not going to class.
What are you?
What are you talking about?
Since you haven't been thisclass, this class or this class,
(14:58):
I said, oh, I'm not in thatclass, I'm in this class, this
class and this class.
I said well, who told you to dothat?
I said, well, nobody told mewhat I'm in for school.
I'm on college, work, study andstudent loans.
I figure I'll take the classesI want to take Me and my wise
16-year-old self Right.
Sanya (15:17):
Yeah, Brooklyn was showing up.
That's what that was.
Dawnn Lewis (15:19):
The Brooklyn came right out on top, and that's
when they let me know that,unbeknownst to me, the School of
Music and the School of FineArts have been in discussions
for a couple of years aboutstarting a new degree program
for people like me withcross-dressing influence.
So they asked me if I would bewilling to be the guinea pig for
this new program.
I said, well, what would I haveto do?
They said, well, basically whatyou're already doing, but we
(15:46):
have to do this officially.
So I had to do a performancejury for all the classes I was
already in and acing for theentire faculty of the School of
Music, the entire faculty of theSchool of Fine Arts.
It was a 45-minute jury.
I had to do a dramaticmonologue, a comedic monologue.
I had to choreograph a dance.
I had to sing a jazz song, aBroadway song, two arias, one in
(16:07):
Italian and the other one inany language of my choice.
No pressure, right, no pressure.
That was what I did.
And when I was done, I wasterrified, I was exhausted and
they said okay, we can nowofficially begin this program.
So I am the founder and firstgraduate of the musical theater
degree program at the Universityof Miami.
Sanya (16:29):
See, that's what I told you, just another evidence of
why you are a culture texturizer.
But that was a very pivotalmoment in your college
experience.
But I was also reading thatthere was another pivotal moment
in your college experience thefirst time that you were called
the N-word.
Talk about that, becausecombating racism this is
(16:52):
something that still existstoday and I know when I entered
college it was also a experiencefor me as well.
It really made me think aboutmy hair texture, the color of my
skin, the way that I showed upin rooms as a girl from Brooklyn
who grew up in the projects.
It really made me face who Iwas as a young girl, growing up
(17:14):
into a Black woman, and it kindof minimized my self-confidence
to a degree.
So when you recall the N-word,talk about that.
And how did you navigatethrough that experience?
Dawnn Lewis (17:26):
That was a combination, because when I was
in school in Miami, although itwas an international university,
it was a predominantly whitestudent body.
There was, there were a numberof students of color, but we
weren't considered part ofnecessarily the mainstream,
whether it was the sororities orthe fraternities, et cetera.
(17:48):
When I was called the N-word,it actually wasn't on campus, I
was shopping at the mall andthis little girl, as innocent as
she could be, said mommy, isthat a black person, apparently
had never seen one in the mall.
And the mother, the mother, themother said baby, we don't
(18:12):
associate with those N-words.
And the little girl was like, oh, okay okay and moved on and I
sat there shocked, not because,not because she thought of me
that way, but because it hadnever been directed at me before
Coming up in New York.
(18:34):
You see, some of everybody.
I went to public school.
We had Asian kids, we hadItalian kids, we had African
kids, we had Haitian kids, wehad white kids.
We had some of everybody.
Especially in an environmentlike music and art.
You had some of everybody.
The whole common ground was ourcreativity, and I grew up in the
(18:54):
60s and 70s, so I knew what thecivil rights movement was.
I understood the disparity, andit's not like I didn't know
racism existed.
Of course I knew it existed,but that was the first time it
had been directed at me.
Yeah, so I received it for theignorance that it was.
(19:16):
I received it for that poorlittle girl, what she is being
taught Right, 16, 17 years old.
That was what I felt.
I felt it's too late for hermom, but that poor little girl,
what she is being taught,because one day she's going to
grow up next to some person ofcolor that she's really going to
want to have as her best friendand not know how to approach it
(19:39):
.
She's going to miss out when Iwas in the?
U some of the.
When I got there we were doingshows like Camelot and Carousel
and all those Oklahoma all thosekinds of shows where I was
relegated to be in the ensemble.
I said but I don't want, I wantto audition for Guinevere.
I want to audition for Julieand they said well, no, dawn,
(20:00):
you're never going to be castthere because the theater at the
time was not, it's still not,funded by the university.
It's funded by the Friends ofTheater, by subscriptions.
So the paying donors decidewhat the curriculum will look
like.
But eventually they had toadmit that some of the most
(20:22):
talented students in thedepartment were the students of
color.
Sanya (20:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Dawnn Lewis (20:26):
My freshman year, myself and one of my professors,
dr John Soliday.
I will love him forever andappreciate him forever.
We've made history at the?
U when he cast me to play thelead role in no, no, nanette, I
was the first person of color toplay a traditionally white role
at the University of Miami.
The cover of the Miami Heraldthat said that summer said once
(20:50):
you get over the fact that DawnLewis is Black, you realize
she's really quite talented.
Go and see her in no, no,nanette.
Now, mind you, by the time Igraduated we were doing the Wiz,
we were doing Equus, we weredoing, you know, working, we
were doing those kinds of showsthat really supported the
diversity that was in theprogram.
So I'm really proud to havebeen a part of that growth.
(21:14):
And now when you go to the?
U they've got an amazing Blackstudent government and union and
the fraternities and thesororities are thriving on the
campus and I'm just really gladthat I was part of a
foundational beginning forchange and for awakening and for
growth.
That was never my intention.
I just wanted to maximize myopportunity.
(21:36):
School was expensive.
Sanya (21:38):
Yes.
Dawnn Lewis (21:39):
School was expensive and that was where I
chose to be.
So it's like well, if I'm goingto be here, I'm going to make
it worth my being here and,gratefully, through the four
years that I was there, theschool grew and learned at least
the department did and I guessit spread throughout the
university.
So I'm very very happy thatthat happened and proud to have
(22:00):
been a part of it.
Sanya (22:01):
Yeah, what doesn't break us only makes us stronger.
So you had an amazingfoundation.
You were able to optimize onyour opportunities.
You know high school college.
Able to optimize on youropportunities?
You know high school college.
Do you feel as if, once yougraduated from college, it
further prepared you forprofessional work as an actress
and singer?
Were you really prepared?
Dawnn Lewis (22:21):
Absolutely, because , starting so young, you learn
how to play bills, you learn howto get your hustle on, you
learn how to set yourself apart,and I learned that I set myself
apart by doing my best andbeing my best not necessarily
being better than you because,you bring something special to
(22:44):
the table.
That's something that my mom andmy grandmother instilled in me.
They were always very impressedupon me that I have what I have
and I do what I do by the graceof God.
But just know that you're notthe only one.
God is blessing.
God is blessing everyone, sodon't waste your energy or your
time being jealous of someoneelse's blessings or outshine
(23:06):
someone else's blessings.
God is positioning us so thatwe can all shine, so that his
kingdom and glory is revealed.
Okay, so while you're trying toshine and be respected and be
appreciated and be included,don't resent that in somebody
else.
We're all trying to do the samething.
So do what you do in order towalk successfully in your path
(23:30):
and please don't try to do it atthe expense of someone else,
because it's only going to comearound to bite you in the butt.
Yes, the truth is, a lot offolks don't like you just
because everybody else likes you.
Sanya (23:41):
And in this space of social media.
I'm so glad that you said thatmessage, because people are
looking at other people andwanting to be just like them,
not understanding that you arean individual.
You have your own gifts, youhave your own talents, you are
unique.
You don't have to be likeanyone else.
So I'm glad that you mentionedthat so that we can disrupt this
(24:01):
narrative that's being createdon social media, where everyone
is trying to be the sameindividual.
So life after college.
Or pull other folks down yeah,yeah, stop, please, stop hard,
stop.
So you graduated from college.
How soon thereafter did youland your first professional gig
?
Dawnn Lewis (24:21):
yeah, immediately immediately grateful.
I immediately got home, becamelead singer.
Well, I was already lead singerin a band, but now some of my
colleagues, classmates, were nowin New York and so we were
recording music.
I was professionally singingdemos.
(24:42):
I had my own record out.
I performed at the Apollo.
I won the Apollo.
I was a session singer, I was ajingle composer, so I was
writing music not just formyself but for commercials and
for other recording artists.
Yeah, I started working rightaway.
(25:04):
I started working right awaydoing shows off Broadway and in
two years I had booked my firstnational Broadway tour.
The Tap Dance Kid with our kid,10 years old at the time, was
Dulé Hill, who's now a grown manwith his own family and just
being so amazing at his craftwith the legendary Harold
(25:26):
Nicholas of the NicholasBrothers Hinton Battle God Rest
His Soul who just passed away,Ben Harney, the original Curtis
in Dreamgirls on Broadway.
The show was amazing and thatled, indirectly but directly, to
my then transferring to adifferent world, because the
same people who cast that showalso cast the Cosby show, so
(25:49):
they cast me to be in it afterbegging them for about three
months to let me audition, andthe musical director was aware
of my music background as asinger and songwriter, so he
called me and asked if I'd bewilling to work with him on the
theme song for this new series.
I said okay, sure.
And they did not know that theyhad hired the same person to do
two completely jobs on the sameshow until after they hired me.
Sanya (26:14):
Wait, I want to make sure that people understand what you
just said, because I don't wantthat to go over people's heads.
You wrote the theme song to ADifferent World.
I don't think that a lot ofpeople knew that, but you know,
even before we harp on that, Ijust want to kind of go back,
because I had a full circlemoment, because I saw myself as
(26:37):
a high school girl, because Iwant you to know that when you
were in the tap dance kit, I wasa high school student sitting
in the audience watching.
Oh, wow, yes.
So you know, having thisconversation with you and
individuals like you who reallypoured into me without even
knowing it, fills me with suchgraciousness.
(26:59):
It makes me kind of tear upbecause you know you didn't have
to be here.
You could have chosen any otherplatform, but you chose this
one.
So once again, you know, I wantyou to really understand the
impact that your presence, theimpact of your work, has had on
so many people, so manygenerations my daughter's 29,
(27:20):
and she knows who you are.
So that speaks volumes to yourpersistence and your passion
that you speak about becausepeople are about to graduate
from college and for you to havea testimony that after college,
you were able to still landsuccessfully.
These are the stories that weneed to hear about, because
(27:40):
sometimes we think that roomsand spaces are not accessible,
but when you speak about yourjourney, the honesty of it and
being unapologetic in it, youknow going to classes that you
weren't even registered for incollege.
Dawnn Lewis (27:53):
I love the opportunity.
No, I wasn't registered.
That's just not where they toldme to go.
I went where I was told to go.
I didn't go where they told meto go.
Sanya (28:02):
So don't try this at home , people.
Well, don't try it at home.
Dawnn Lewis (28:06):
Don't say well, dawn Lewis said that.
Sanya (28:12):
No, no, no, so wait a minute.
Okay, so you wrote the themesong for A Different World.
Was that at the same time thatyou were auditioning for the
role of Julissa it?
Dawnn Lewis (28:18):
was.
It was Within the same sevendays.
I wrote the theme song andbooked the spot.
Like I said, I had bugged thecasting directors for almost
three months to let me audition.
When I heard about the show, Iwas still on the road with the
tap dance kid and they said no,we love what you're doing in the
show.
You just stay right where you,where you are, it's like.
But okay, everybody can't be afreshman, somebody has to be a
(28:41):
sophomore or something.
So I got off the road, the tourended.
I was absolutely collectingunemployment checks, was down to
my last unemployment check.
When they called me back, thiswas on a Wednesday.
They said are you stillinterested in auditioning?
I said absolutely.
Can you be here tomorrow?
Absolutely.
Less than an hour later, themusical director, stu Gardner,
(29:03):
called me and said are youavailable to write this song for
me?
And he told me what it was andwhat the concept was that the
Lisa Bonet character, deniseHuxtable, was going to be going
off to college and she's got thesupport of her parents.
And I was like, ok.
He says well, all right, sofine, I'm going to send a
messenger with a cassette withmy thoughts for the music and
(29:26):
let me see what you write overthat and I'll see you in the
studio Friday.
I said, well, don't you want tomeet first to see what I come
up with?
And he says no, if you're thesame person that wrote the stuff
that I heard, I think you cando what I need done.
I'll see you Friday.
So sure enough, at that point Ithought my friends were playing
a joke on me, because that justdoesn't happen.
So I was casting directors backand said did you call me to
(29:49):
come into Mar?
They said yes, is there aproblem?
I said no, not, I can be there.
So I immediately, god's honesttruth.
I immediately thought to myselfokay, this is big, this is
bigger than anything I've donebefore, meaning the theme song.
I audition for stuff all thetime.
Sanya (30:08):
But as a writer.
Dawnn Lewis (30:09):
I know what it is to copyright music.
I know what it is to be mindfulof the business of show.
It's called show business forbusiness twice as long as the
word show, for a reason.
So you can get caught up in theshow and get run over by the
business, or you handle yourbusiness and the blessing and
the grace and the gravy is theshow and what it manifests.
(30:32):
So I went into the yellow pagesand started looking up lawyers
and to see who I could get torepresent me.
And I remembered I had one ofthe courses I studied in school
was music merchandising, and Ihad a book called this Business
of Music.
So I looked at the front of thebook.
It was written by two lawyers.
I had an office in Manhattan.
I caught 411.
What's their number?
(30:52):
I called them.
I said do you by any chancehave a free paralegal service,
because I just graduated fromcollege?
But I need your help, but Ican't afford you.
They said well, can you come intomorrow?
Tell us what's going on.
So after my audition to be inthe show, I walked over to their
office and told them what itwas.
They said we would be happy torepresent you.
(31:14):
I said okay you missed the partwhere I said I can't afford you,
I need to speak to yoursecretary or your godchild or
somebody who knows a few things.
And they said no, we'reactually impressed that you
didn't just go ahead and signsomething, that you really want
to do this the right way, so wewill handle this free of charge.
(31:35):
All we ask is that when you getthe opportunity, you be willing
to pay it forward.
I had never heard that termbefore.
Sanya (31:42):
But what?
Dawnn Lewis (31:43):
I'm saying is, when you are in a position to be of
service or help to someone else,you be willing to do that and
that's all the pay that we need.
Help to someone else, you bewilling to do that and that's
all the pay that we need.
And until they passed away forthe blessing that those
royalties have been to me, theywould never accept a dime.
And when things got complicatedwith the theme song, because
(32:03):
one of the things that theynegotiated was that I would get
on-screen credit, I would getpaid 50-50.
Sanya (32:10):
I would get on-screen credit.
Dawnn Lewis (32:10):
I would get paid 50-50.
And the director said well, mrCosby gets, you know, 50% of
everything that I do, so we'llhave to split it three ways.
And my attorney said no, mrCosby can have 50% of your 50%,
but Dawn Lewis wrote the lyrics,she wrote the music, I mean,
she wrote the melody of the song.
Technically the song is hers,but we get this, she will split
(32:32):
it 50 50 and she will get screencredit.
So they said, okay, yeah, butwhen the pilot aired my name was
not on the screen.
It just said Mr Gardner and MrCosby.
So my lawyers had to getinvolved again and no charge to
me to make sure that that wascorrected immediately no charge
(32:54):
to me to make sure that that wascorrected immediately.
Sanya (32:56):
Yeah, but did that cause any controversy for you as an
actress?
Because I'm sure it did.
Like you're taking them tocourt and you know, suing over
the song while you're acting.
Dawnn Lewis (33:04):
We didn't go to court, we didn't end up having
to sue, but it was like I gotthe response I got even when we
were doing Hanging with MrCooper and they had us sing the
opening theme song.
It's like what do you mean?
You want credit?
You're in the show, what elsedo you want?
It's like no, you hired me as amusician, as a composer, you
didn't hire me.
No, I'm sorry, you hired me asan actor, you didn't hire me as
(33:26):
a musician, a composer or asinger.
That's a completely separatereality.
So, yes, and it's in mycontract.
So the attorney said you knowwhat, you take whatever time you
need, but until then you are inbreach of contract and can't
use the theme song until you fixit.
So it went from this could takemonths to it was fixed the next
(33:47):
week.
Sanya (33:48):
Wow, where does that come from?
Where does the audacity, theaudacity, the being unapologetic
, you've entered into spaces androoms and you've kind of
changed what they thought theycould give you.
Where does that come from?
Dawnn Lewis (34:06):
I'm not entirely sure, but when you know you've
got right on your side, when youknow you're not fighting the
uphill battle entirely byyourself, it makes a big
difference.
It makes a big difference andfrom my vantage point I just got
there.
So the thought of I don't wantto make any waves, it's like,
(34:30):
yeah, but I don't want to betaken advantage of either.
And if I say yes to this, ifthis is how we're going to start
, where is this going to go?
All you're going to do is justkeep walking all over me.
And who wants to do that?
Who wants to do it?
And I didn't, and it just.
It put me in a frame of mindfor the remainder of my career,
(34:52):
even today.
It's not necessarily the mostpopular position.
Sometimes it gets youblackballed when you insist on
being treated equitably, andthat's not even with any extras,
that's not even with any gravy.
That's like come on now, y'all,y'all make billions and
millions, millions and billionsof dollars and you're going to
begrudge me what I work forSeriously, while you pay someone
(35:17):
else exponentially more fortheir participation, which isn't
even as much as what I'm doing.
But I'm supposed to suck it upand just be grateful to have a
job Come on.
Sanya (35:28):
So that makes me think of another question when we talk
about disparities within theindustry.
As an actress who is a woman ofcolor, have you encountered
other situations or experienceswhere there was a disparity in
the way that you were treatedjust based upon the color of
your skin, and how did younavigate around that?
Dawnn Lewis (35:48):
You finish your contract and do what you can to
get out.
Yeah, so I've done a few ofthose jobs.
I've done a few of those jobs.
You know, a different world wasa blessing and a real challenge
.
Being in that environment areal challenge.
Number two show on television,not number two black show, not
(36:09):
no number two half hour showbetween us and the Cosby show.
We went back and forth betweennumber one and number two for
almost six years straight.
Our show.
We were never nominated for anEmmy.
We were never even invited tothe Emmys to hand a trophy to
somebody else, never had acommercial, never had a
billboard, never had anhour-long special.
The love that we are gettingnow as we are going around to
(36:31):
different places almost 40 yearslater, is more than we ever saw
, than when we were actually ontelevision.
We knew the show was a successbecause of the ratings, but we
weren't treated like a success.
We weren't paid like a success.
There were several shows thatweren't as highly rated as ours,
that featured predominantlywhite casts, that were
(36:55):
exponentially more than we were.
We were basically at that timetreated like we should just be
happy to have a job.
We can get some more y'all inhere in a minute if you make too
much, too much noise, yeah.
Sanya (37:09):
Things always come right on time and you just got to
trust in God's timing and notlean on your own understanding.
So you've been saying we'vebeen seeing it all on social
media, all on television thatthe cast of A Different World is
now getting the accolades andthe awareness that they deserved
back then.
But there was a time where youdidn't hear anything.
(37:31):
Did you ever think that ADifferent World would now
resurface to receive theattention today?
Dawnn Lewis (37:40):
world would now resurface to receive the
attention today.
Well, I didn't.
I wasn't anticipating itgetting the attention that it's
getting us, getting thereception that we're getting,
but the mere fact that in 37years there's not been one hour
of one day, of one week, of onemonth, of one year, that that
show has not been on televisionsomewhere in the planet, and in
several cases, multiple times aday, already speaks for itself.
(38:02):
The fact that people still findit relevant, the fact that
people still find itentertaining, the fact that I
walked in, I was the keynotespeaker at Harris Stone
University a week ago for theircommencement and I sat and took
a picture in between two younglay ladies named Jalisa who were
graduating.
The influence that the show hasmade, the impact, the
(38:25):
empowerment that the showcontinues to give no, that no
longer surprises me, it's just ahuge blessing.
It is amazingly humbling when Isee people of all generations,
of different nationalities,singing the words to the theme
song like it's a personal anthem.
(38:45):
They know every single word.
I got to tell you how emotionalthat is.
We were just on the View notthat long ago and everyone in
the audience was on their feet,didn't matter what color, what
age, what gender, singing thewords out, and I started crying.
They had to bring me tissues onthe set because I wrote my
personal story at 16 years old,leaving Brooklyn, going across
(39:09):
the country, with all I wasempowered with were what?
The words and wisdom andtraditions and warnings that
were deposited in me by my momand my grandmother and my
teachers and my brothers.
That's all I had and it wasokay.
Go figure it out.
And that was what I did andthat was what I wrote.
(39:33):
I changed it slightly.
You know to say that my parentsloved me, but in my mind, my
parents were my village.
Whether it was my mom, mygrandmother, you know it wasn't
my biological dad and my mom,although you learn lessons from
everyone of what to do and whatnot to do.
Yeah, that was all I was armedwith.
So to hear people sing thosewords out.
(39:55):
It does.
I was armed with so to hearpeople sing those words out.
It does.
It makes me emotional, but itdoesn't change the realities of
what happened back then, whetherit was different world or hang
with Mr Cooper or any other jobwhere it was just a real
challenge.
Sometimes it starts from thetop down, Sometimes it happens
right from side by side by thepeople who are supposed to be
(40:18):
your friends, colleagues.
It can be very, veryinteresting.
It's a very interestingindustry, the entertainment
industry, but we're still hereand continue to be grateful.
Sanya (40:31):
Good, good, yeah, you spoke about a different world
airing all the time.
When I get dressed in themorning, at seven o'clock in the
morning, I'm watching ADifferent World on TV one.
I'm watching A Different Worldevery single morning, even now.
I'm situated in a high schoolbuilding and I had a few high
school students linger aroundbecause they was like you are
not about to talk to Dawn Lewis.
I said yes, I am.
(40:51):
They were like we don't believeyou, so I had them come in just
for the introduction and I hadthem leave.
But everyone knows about thiscultural phenomenon.
The cast were amazing.
Thank you.
Were you able to develop strongrelationships with the rest of
your cast members on A DifferentWorld?
Dawnn Lewis (41:10):
Yes, yeah, some of them stronger than others.
Everyone has succeeded so well.
Everyone is continuing tothrive, personally as well as
professionally.
I mean, as you can imagine, I'mcloser to some than others.
You know, back in the day, I'mnot going to lie some of it was
(41:32):
a challenge, because the goal ofthe producers, from the top
down, was to divide and conquer,play us against each other.
You know what I mean that kindof it was.
It was very interesting andunnecessary, which was, for me,
a big part of the reason why Iwanted to change shows.
Sanya (41:52):
That was why I left A Different World to go over to
hang with Mr Cooper, um, andthat ended up actually being, uh
, a more difficult environmentyeah, because hanging with Mr
Cooper, like we didn't see youafter season two, and for me,
for me, it just seemed as if theshow took a different direction
(42:13):
.
I don't think that the networkwas ready to have two Black
women living with a Black maleand it just be a platonic
relationship and they wanted tokind of whitewash it and make it
a more friendly show.
Am I correct in assuming that?
Dawnn Lewis (42:27):
No, no, it was the Black version of Three's Company
.
True, it was the Black versionof Three's Company, so that
(42:51):
wasn't the issue coming out ofthe mouths of people of color
that we, as people of color,would spend countless hours
every week telling them.
This is not funny, this isdemeaning, this is embarrassing,
this is insulting.
You're writing things that wedon't want to have come out of
(43:12):
our mouths, and I apparently wasthe most vocal person about
that.
And so, yeah, by the end of thefirst year, the show was one of
the was the highest rated newseries on any network during
that first season.
But it wasn't without work.
It wasn't without challenge,challenges.
We worked through every singlescript, every single week, and
(43:37):
the show that was produced wasfunny.
Sanya (43:40):
However, getting to that part was emotionally challenging
, week after week after week,and yeah, yeah, yeah, I can
believe it, because I do knowthat when we have people seated
at the table who don't look likeus, they do want to create this
narrative that kind of portraysBlack people in a way that
(44:01):
isn't really true of who wetruly are.
So I'm glad that we haveindividuals like you navigating
through the industry, speakingup and changing the way that the
world should view us.
So thank you for that.
I do know that we have to closeout this conversation, but I do
have two things that I want todiscuss.
Dawnn Lewis (44:20):
Talk about your foundation, a New Day Foundation
junior high school, high school, as I was growing up, to talk
to my tea teachers, to thankthem for their encouragement and
(44:40):
pouring into me, and as well asto answer the questions of
those students to say, well,what's junior high school like?
Well, you know, this happensand that happens.
What's high school like?
Well, this happens, and thathappens.
What's college like?
Well, this happens.
So, as was my custom, when ADifferent World aired, I went
back to my high school music andart and this time I walked into
the lobby and all I heard wasoh my God, it's Jaleesa.
(45:02):
And I got in the lobby and Ispent the rest of that day going
from one class to the next,answering their questions about
the business and how toparticipate and how to find
yourself within it and not becompletely overwhelmed or
intimidated by it.
And that's when a light wentoff for me that this wasn't just
about me and what made me feelgood, but that I actually had
(45:24):
something to offer.
So after that, subsequent years, I would fund workshops,
masterclasses, et cetera, toimpart information.
About eight years ago, I wantedto do some national programs,
and so I went to theorganizations and corporations
that I've been supporting overthe years and they said, dawn,
we love you.
We know this isn't a fly bynight idea for you, because
(45:45):
we've watched you in thecommunity for more than three
decades.
But we can't just give youmoney.
You have to be a nonprofit.
So that was how I formed the ANew Day Foundation, which is a
play on my name, dawn A New Dayas well.
As our vision is to be a new dayof opportunity for young people
, for underserved youth andcommunities.
That where you were yesterdayis not where you have to be
(46:06):
today, nor will you end uptomorrow.
We want to be your new day ofopportunity.
So that's what we do, andeverything we do we do free of
charge.
So all of our fundraising,every single dollar that anyone
donates to us, goes to providingthe programs and the
conferences and the materials,entrance fees, insurance all of
that for our participants.
(46:28):
So all they have to do isregister and commit to showing
up.
We feed them, we introduce themto different cultural and career
opportunities that they're notnormally exposed to, everything
from taking them camping orrodeo.
I do a lot of voiceoveranimation work, where I've taken
them into the studio and taughtthem how to produce and develop
(46:48):
their own animation and videogame projects.
And we give out scholarships atour annual conference, which
this year is June 15th on theUSC campus.
So if you go to the A New DayFoundation website,
wwwanewdayfoundationnet, you'llsee the flyer with the QR code.
Registration is required againbecause we need a headcount to
(47:10):
make sure we order enough meals,we order enough workshop
supplies all of that that wehave enough classroom space and
you can register.
And the conference focuses onfinancial literacy and
technology and we give outanywhere from six to 12
scholarships of $2,000 each anda brand new laptop.
And so our youth programs thatgo throughout the year or the
(47:32):
annual conference, most of thekids, once they come to one of
our opportunities or programs orexperiences, they keep coming
until they age out, until theycan't anymore.
So the conference is for highschool juniors and seniors and
their parents we have workshopsfor the parents to get them
informed as well as collegefreshmen and sophomores.
So that four-year demographicpreparing to go to college and
(47:56):
having just arrived.
Now what?
Sanya (47:58):
I love it.
I love it.
You know, once again, peoplewould not understand your
philanthropic work.
I, too, work in the educationsystem as a high school
administrator.
I definitely want to stayconnected with you to see how we
could potentially bring thisprogram to the students here in
the Bronx, a community that isvery, very marginalized and
(48:19):
disenfranchised.
But as an educator fromBrooklyn, I'm committed to going
into the different boroughs andmaking sure that children see
us, because I'm a firm believerthat children can't be what they
do not see.
So thank you for being inspaces, like I said, with the
fortitude.
You for being in spaces, like Isaid, with the fortitude, with
(48:41):
the intellect, and because youare a culture texturizer, you
are once again adding layers andshape and fierceness to a
conversation that is sodeserving in our spaces.
What's next for you?
What's going on?
Dawnn Lewis (48:52):
More work with the foundation and the work with the
foundation goes wherever I go.
When I was there in New Yorkdoing Tina, the Tina Turner
musical, I sponsored kids fromthe Renaissance school there in
the Bronx Renaissance EMS tocome and treated most of them to
their very first Broadway show.
As well as we did programs andempowerment workshops while I
(49:13):
was there with some Brooklynschools.
I went to the Billy and taughtsome acting classes during my
days off while I was at theBilly.
So I have created and developeda couple of new TV series
projects.
I was fortunate enough to sellone to a network a number of
years ago, so I'm in the processof developing that now and
getting that one sold a new onesold now and still doing my
(49:36):
voiceover work.
I must do like about a dozendifferent shows now.
I do Star Trek, lower Decks asCaptain Carol Freeman.
I'm Bernice Hibbert on theSimpsons.
I am LaBarbera on Futurama.
I'm Miss Patty on Apple andOnion.
I'm Granny McStuffins on DocMcStuffins.
I'm in Duncanville.
(49:57):
I'm in.
Mcstuffins on Doc McStuffins.
I'm in Duncanville.
I'm in.
Sanya (49:58):
Yeah, I'm grateful oh my gosh, I love it.
I love it.
I love to see us show up andshow out.
Let me tell you for the past Iwould say six months I've been
writing down lessons that I'velearned in my 50s and I wanted
to ask you about a lesson thatyou've learned, but doing my
research, ask you about a lessonthat you've learned, but doing
my research, I came across alesson that you learned I will
(50:22):
never show up and not show up,and everything that you talked
about really explains how youhave been showing up in spaces.
Dr Dawn Lewis, please keepshowing up in these spaces,
because we need you.
We will applaud you, we willhold you up in moments where you
don't feel your strongest.
(50:43):
I guarantee you because I'm oneof those people.
Thank you, I wish you nothingbut continued success.
I pray over the trajectory ofyour life because we need you,
sister, and I applaud the workthat you have done and the work
that you will continue to do.
I say I say thank you so much,take care and continue blessings
(51:06):
continue blessings to you too,thank you, thank you, thank you
bye-bye, bye-bye.
This is amazing.
I mean bye-bye, oh, and that'syou again, I'm trying to.
So there you have it.
(51:26):
Oh my gosh, another amazingedition of sonya on it.
It was truly humbling.
I almost teed up a few times.
I'm a thug, I'm not supposed tocry.
I was crying on the inside.
I was crying inside.
Ok, dr Dawn Lewis, I'm notgoing to call her Dawn Lewis.
Dr Dawn Lewis.
(51:46):
She worked hard for thatdoctorate degree in humanities,
ok, do you?
Did you not hear all of theamazing things that she has done
, things that you weren't evenaware of?
So you know, a proverbialgraduate of Hillman college, she
still goes into schoolsimparting her wisdom to students
(52:14):
.
I'm in awe.
I didn't know all of thesethings about her.
Did you know that she wrote thetheme song to a different world
?
Did you know that?
I was going to ask her to youknow just about more, about the
relationships with her and thecast of a different world?
But the conversation I lovewhen conversations with my
guests just take on a road andturn of its own.
(52:38):
So make sure that you stayconnected to Dawn Lois.
I'm telling you, when we seepeople navigating in spaces and
showing up and showing up andbeing unafraid well, maybe being
afraid a little bit, but stillbeing unapologetic, pushing
through, being afraid andtelling people no, that's not
(53:02):
right, I won't do it this way,I'm going to do it that way.
She was in college and althoughshe was registered to take
other classes, particularclasses, she said I took those
classes in high school.
These are the classes I needand because of that, because of
her vision, because of hervision, she created this
(53:26):
conversation and they created awhole new lane for a major for
her and other students comingafter her.
When I talk about trendsetters,this is what I'm talking about.
You just can't wake up everysingle day breathing, sucking in
air and not pouring in and notgiving back.
(53:47):
You know, I love when I speakto celebrities and it's not just
about the glitz and the glamour.
Darling, I'm starring on thisnew HBO series and I'm starring
in this new Lionsgate film.
Yeah, that's good girl, that'sreal good.
But what I love to hear is howthey are giving back to the
(54:09):
community.
So, a Brooklyn girl she has myheart because us Brooklyn girls,
when I tell you God broke themold when he created the
Brooklyn queen, there's nothinglike us.
Nothing like us.
Don't hate.
Don't hate, because I knowy'all gonna be in the comments
like uh-uh, mm-hmm, boo, mm-hmm.
(54:30):
So I'm gonna close out thisconversation because I just need
to let it marinate a little bit.
I just need to let it marinatea little bit.
I just need to let it marinatethat I was in the presence of Dr
Dawn Lewis and I'm really goingto connect with her.
Stay connected with Dr DawnLewis to see how I can get her
program in additional highschools in the Bronx, manhattan,
(54:54):
brooklyn, queens, because it isso, so necessary and needed.
A lot of you probably didn'teven know that I'm an educator.
I've been in education for 25years or something like that,
and I'm committed.
I'm committed to marginalizedand disenfranchised communities
because I do believe thatchildren can't be what they do
(55:17):
not see.
So when you wake up every singleday and you step out your front
door, do something for someoneelse other than yourself.
Okay, but I need you to dosomething for me right now.
I need to make sure that yousubscribe to Sonia on air.
Okay, let's put that there.
Make sure that you subscribe ToSanya On Air.
(55:40):
See it streaming.
You see it streaming on thebottom.
Make sure that you subscribe toSanya On Air.
Make sure you like, make sureyou share, make sure you leave a
comment.
This has been another Amazingedition of Sanya On Air.
I'm just going to play theapplause Song music right now.
And we're just going to playthe applause song music right
now.
And we're just going to danceour way out of this edition of
(56:03):
Sonya on Air.
Let's dance y'all, party it out, smooches.
We're going to keep dancing.
We're going to keep dancing.
This is Sonya on Air.
This is not the only when I was coming up we had to go
outside the city.
We had to go travel, go out oftown, be down doors, like this
was the first time Bill was evergone on the set and he said
here comes the token dirt boy.
And out of my mouth I said Fyou Fans are asking for a
positive women and you know,with family and business, it's
(00:29):
like you know that's what webring to the show and yet still
it's like oh, she's boring.
Dawnn Lewis (00:35):
It's my real story.
This is really who I am.
Sanya (00:37):
I made, I build myself off a dollar dream without a
man's help, without a basketballplayer, or a dream without a
man's help, without a basketballplayer.
Dawnn Lewis (00:50):
Particularly the patriarchal boxes that white,
cisgender males have defined forus should be how we define
ourselves.
Sanya (00:53):
That's what they were saying on the street.
I didn't say it.
That's what they were saying onthe street, the streets, the
avenues and the boulevard.
Hey, hey, hey.
You're now tuned into anotheramazing edition of Sonya on Air.
I'm your host, sonya Hudson-Pete, and I know I've been gone for
(01:15):
a minute.
I had to get my life togetherbecause you know how life just
be lifin' Child.
So you know what I'm going todo.
I'm going to give myself around of applause for pulling
through, won't it do it?
And it'll do it for you too.
So hit the round of applausefor me.
While I let it marinate, I willtell you something.
Do not wait for anyone toacknowledge all of the storms
(01:43):
that you have navigated throughand you have a smile on your
face to say God pushed methrough, won't it do it?
So let's give the round ofapplause again.
I love having fun, love havingfun.
But before we get to today'sguest, I need you to do me a
quick favor.
It costs free 99, nothing outof your pocketbook.
(02:05):
Okay, All I need you to do issubscribe Sonya On Air streams
across every major streamingplatform.
Did I say every major streamingplatform.
Yes, every major streamingplatform.
So make sure that you subscribe.
And if you're watching this onYouTube, not only subscribe, but
make sure you hit thenotification bell.
(02:26):
That way, every time I uploadan all new Sonya On Air
celebrity interview, unpackingtheir pivotal moments and
milestones, you'll be the firstones to know.
Now on to today's guest.
Let me tell you something.
I'm humbled and I am honoredwhen I tell you about today's
(02:46):
guest.
I came up with a new term as Iwas researching her and just
trying to figure out how toengage in this conversation.
She's accomplished.
So so me tell you what thatmeans.
What that means is thispersonality, this icon, this
(03:15):
living legend.
She has added layers.
She has added the firmness, thethickness, the softness, the
zest, the fierceness, theintellect, the power to culture,
because she was one of the maincharacters on.
(03:37):
I know my parents love me,stand behind me come what may.
Yes, a different world.
I have none other than DawnLewis who played Julissa Vincent
.
Come on, you know Julissa, youknow Julissa Vincent.
On A Different World, a showthat really let the community
(03:58):
know college is possible.
College is possible.
It is accessible.
I know watching that show as ahigh school girl growing up in
Brooklyn, new York.
It reminded me and it confirmedthat college was definitely
possible.
So it really inspired ageneration.
(04:19):
Well, it inspired my generationand that show is so powerful
that it is relevant today.
So I have Dawn Lewis.
Matter of fact, let me rewind,she is Dr Dawn Lewis.
The work that she has done isso amazing and we're going to
(04:39):
unpack all of those layersbecause, like I mentioned, she
is a culture texturizer.
When we have this conversation,trust me, there's going to be
so much information that youweren't even aware about, and
this is the purpose of theseconversations.
On Sonya On Air.
Once again, I want to unpackcelebrity pivotal moments and
(05:00):
their milestones.
We watch so many of thesecelebrities on television, their
milestones.
We watch so many of thesecelebrities on television, on
film, we listen to their music,we read their books, but we need
to know how did you get there?
How do you remain relevant?
Share the secrets of yoursuccess so that our communities
can expand and once againbelieve it is accessible.
(05:23):
So we're going to bring Dr DawnLewis in in just a few moments,
but, like I said, please makesure that you subscribe, make
sure that you like and make surethat you reshare.
So we're going to take a quickcommercial break and I promise
we'll be right back with Dr DawnLewis.
Stay tuned.
(05:45):
Let me tell you something BeforeI even start this conversation.
Dr Dawn Lewis, I am so honored.
I am so humbled no, no, Ireally am.
Wait, that's my daughtercalling me, because she knew I
was about to have thisconversation, because I love to
talk to individuals that I don'tnot only poured into my life
(06:06):
without even knowing it, but Iwas able to show my daughter you
as an example, because to me,you are a culture texturizer.
I came up with that term, yeah,yeah, I came up with that term
just for you, came up with thatterm just for you, and I want to
(06:28):
share with you why I'm callingyou a culture texturizer.
The culture is what it is, butwhat you have done and I don't
know if you know that you'vedone this you've added layers,
you've added shape, you've addedfirmness, softness, education,
fierceness and beauty to theculture.
So for that I call you aculture texturizer.
Thank you for your presence.
Dawnn Lewis (06:49):
My absolute pleasure.
I'm so glad that you wanted totalk today.
It's a pleasure to meet you.
Come on Brooklyn.
Sanya (06:55):
Yes, that was the first thing.
I'm a Brooklyn girl, you're aBrooklyn girl.
What part of Brooklyn did you?
Dawnn Lewis (07:01):
grow up in Bed-Stuy , born and raised in Bed-Stuy,
we moved six times, but alwaysin Brooklyn, from Bed-Stuy to
Park Slope, back to Bed-Stuy, toCrown Heights, up into Utica
for about three months while wewere waiting to move into our
house, and we moved in Flatbush,about five, six blocks from
(07:22):
Brooklyn College in Flatbush,about five, six blocks from
Brooklyn College.
Sanya (07:32):
Wow, Wow.
So what type of Brooklyn girlwere you or are you?
I am the true epitome of the LLCool J song Around the Way Girl
.
What type of Brooklyn girl areyou?
Dawnn Lewis (07:36):
I'm a kind of around the way.
Girl, with a touch of Europeanfinesse.
I've been where I've been youknow and I'm exposed to what
I've been exposed to.
So at the heart of me is thelet's just, can we just get to
it?
Person, and what you see iswhat you get person.
But on the other hand, do youalso learn how to play certain
(08:01):
for lack of a better term games?
Yeah, there are so many aspectsof life that are games that
people play but it's reallyabout strategy.
It's really about how do youpresent.
How do you present what youpresent, to whom and at what
time, in order to achieve whatit is you want to achieve.
And that's never about beingfake.
It's about being genuine butusing wisdom and discernment
(08:26):
about when to do, what to dothat you are trying to
accomplish.
Sanya (08:31):
So I love it.
I love it, A true testament ofa Brooklyn girl and what I want
to remind people of, becausewe're both from Brooklyn the
cultural landscape of Brooklyn.
There are so many institutionsin Brooklyn that introduced me
to the arts.
At what age were you introducedto the arts and how were you
introduced to the arts?
Dawnn Lewis (08:51):
I was introduced to the arts when I was very, very
young and I got initiallyintroduced through television.
My family's from South America,so I'm the first female in my
family to be born in the States.
I have three brothers.
Ultimately from the time youwere eight, nine, raised by a
single mom, so we stayed insidea lot.
(09:12):
That's not.
That's not true.
We were inside to be safe butwanted to be outside.
Because when I was growing up,you wanted to be outside, you
wanted to be playing in thestreet with with your friends,
whether it was handballs, stickballs, skellies, whatever hot
water low water, hot peas andbutter, whatever it was,
hopscotch, double dutch,whatever it was.
So, my brothers, we had thatsense of community.
(09:35):
So we couldn't afford to go tothe theater, really didn't
afford to go to the movies muchso it was about television.
So I got drawn to musicaltheater, musical movies on
television, those old movieswhere I would learn all the
dance numbers, all the songs.
So I was singing by the time Iwas four, did my first concert
at four.
It sucked because I got onstage and was so afraid I forgot
(09:57):
the words.
I was amazing in rehearsal.
You should have seen me inrehearsal, but when I got on
stage in front of all the people, I froze.
My first introduction to majortheater was the Brooklyn Academy
of Music.
My mom took me to see a dancerecital that I later learned
where her dear friend from whereshe worked at Brookdale had a
(10:17):
daughter that was in that danceschool.
And I was like mom, I want todo this so badly Because
everything I did I had to dowith my brothers or I wasn't
allowed to do it.
I had to stay in the house.
So I was this real tomboy, me,tall for my age, in the middle
of all these boys all the time.
So my mother said I've got toget my daughter out from in the
middle of all these boys.
(10:38):
So she put me in dance class,singing at four, dancing at
seven, acting at 11.
That was the beginning for me.
By the time I was 11 or 12,something like that is when they
opened the Billie HolidayTheater over at Restless
Duration yes, a half from myhouse.
So I wanted to.
(10:59):
I knew if I could be on thestage at the Billy.
I had arrived, and now youradvisory board.
The first show I auditioned for.
I wrote my own monologue andthey said how old are you, baby?
It was the show called Young,gifted and Broke.
I didn't get it, I was tooyoung, but whatever I just I was
(11:24):
determined, I was committed.
So that's been my journey formost of my life.
Started professionallyperforming, I was on the stage
at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, that same stage that I was
excited by and enticed by.
I was on that stage by the timeI was nine.
I was dancing point, jazz,ballet, tap, and haven't stopped
(11:49):
since.
So singer writer, lead singerin my own band, at 14, had my
first record released, and I was21.
So that was how the rest of itcame.
Sanya (12:01):
TV just blew up first Wow , that's a similar story, you
know just watching you ontelevision.
This is why I love to havethese conversations, because
when we watch people like you ontelevision we feel as if we're
far removed and there are nosimilarities.
But in speaking to you just now, very, very similar expressed
to my mom that I wanted to beinvolved in the arts.
(12:22):
So she started me off in danceand acting classes in the fourth
grade.
My brother also went torestoration for acting classes
and also the Paul RobesonTheater in Brooklyn.
We went there.
We went to performing arts highschool.
Where did you go?
You went to PA.
(12:42):
No, actually I went to TalentUnlimited.
Talent Unlimited, Okay.
Unlimited, okay.
Yes, because we had a travelingtroupe section that Performing
Arts LaGuardia didn't have.
So I wanted to tour for sixmonths out of the year which
Talent Unlimited had andLaGuardia didn't.
So I chose that school.
Dawnn Lewis (12:59):
That was where I went.
I went to Music and Art when itwas still up in Harlem, before
it moved, before the buildingsjoined.
Pa was on 46.
Music and art was on 135th andconvent, and they they were
always one school but never hada building large enough to put
everyone in.
So they finally got the leaseto the building that's in
Lincoln Center, right across thestreet from Juilliard, so now
(13:20):
all of the students are in onefacility.
But yeah, that was where I wentto high school.
Sanya (13:25):
So when you went to college, did you still major in
the arts?
I did.
Dawnn Lewis (13:30):
I did when I was in high school.
I'm still playing cello.
I played cello for about sevenyears, singing opera, and I went
to the University of Miami.
I had applied to OberlinBerkeley Cal Arts University of
Hawaii.
I just really wanted to get outof New York.
But all those otherconservatories, while they were
(13:51):
so reputable, you weren'tallowed to perform until you
were a junior or senior.
But I had been performing sinceI was a kid, so I didn't see
the sense.
The University of Miami had avery progressive vocal program
where you could start workingright away as a freshman.
That was where I went.
So I left New York.
I was 16 when I graduated highschool and started college and
(14:12):
went as an applied voice majorand learned that half the
courses they wanted me to takewere courses I had already had
in high school.
So I didn't see the need intaking those like sight singing
and music theory et cetera.
So I happened to buy a pencilthat had an eraser and I was
taught how to use it.
So I erased half of what theyinstructed me to take in dance
(14:36):
classes, acting classes, all ofthose things I was already
accustomed to doing.
About one month into myfreshman semester, I got called
into the dean's office and gotthe speech.
Young lady, I'm going to saythis to you one time we were
reluctant to admit you becauseof your age, but we will not
stand for you not going to class.
What are you?
What are you talking about?
Since you haven't been thisclass, this class or this class,
(14:58):
I said, oh, I'm not in thatclass, I'm in this class, this
class and this class.
I said well, who told you to dothat?
I said, well, nobody told mewhat I'm in for school.
I'm on college, work, study andstudent loans.
I figure I'll take the classesI want to take Me and my wise
16-year-old self Right.
Sanya (15:17):
Yeah, Brooklyn was showing up.
That's what that was.
Dawnn Lewis (15:19):
The Brooklyn came right out on top, and that's
when they let me know that,unbeknownst to me, the School of
Music and the School of FineArts have been in discussions
for a couple of years aboutstarting a new degree program
for people like me withcross-dressing influence.
So they asked me if I would bewilling to be the guinea pig for
this new program.
I said, well, what would I haveto do?
They said, well, basically whatyou're already doing, but we
(15:46):
have to do this officially.
So I had to do a performancejury for all the classes I was
already in and acing for theentire faculty of the School of
Music, the entire faculty of theSchool of Fine Arts.
It was a 45-minute jury.
I had to do a dramaticmonologue, a comedic monologue.
I had to choreograph a dance.
I had to sing a jazz song, aBroadway song, two arias, one in
(16:07):
Italian and the other one inany language of my choice.
No pressure, right, no pressure.
That was what I did.
And when I was done, I wasterrified, I was exhausted and
they said okay, we can nowofficially begin this program.
So I am the founder and firstgraduate of the musical theater
degree program at the Universityof Miami.
Sanya (16:29):
See, that's what I told you, just another evidence of
why you are a culture texturizer.
But that was a very pivotalmoment in your college
experience.
But I was also reading thatthere was another pivotal moment
in your college experience thefirst time that you were called
the N-word.
Talk about that, becausecombating racism this is
(16:52):
something that still existstoday and I know when I entered
college it was also a experiencefor me as well.
It really made me think aboutmy hair texture, the color of my
skin, the way that I showed upin rooms as a girl from Brooklyn
who grew up in the projects.
It really made me face who Iwas as a young girl, growing up
(17:14):
into a Black woman, and it kindof minimized my self-confidence
to a degree.
So when you recall the N-word,talk about that.
And how did you navigatethrough that experience?
Dawnn Lewis (17:26):
That was a combination, because when I was
in school in Miami, although itwas an international university,
it was a predominantly whitestudent body.
There was, there were a numberof students of color, but we
weren't considered part ofnecessarily the mainstream,
whether it was the sororities orthe fraternities, et cetera.
(17:48):
When I was called the N-word,it actually wasn't on campus, I
was shopping at the mall andthis little girl, as innocent as
she could be, said mommy, isthat a black person, apparently
had never seen one in the mall.
And the mother, the mother, themother said baby, we don't
(18:12):
associate with those N-words.
And the little girl was like, oh, okay okay and moved on and I
sat there shocked, not because,not because she thought of me
that way, but because it hadnever been directed at me before
Coming up in New York.
(18:34):
You see, some of everybody.
I went to public school.
We had Asian kids, we hadItalian kids, we had African
kids, we had Haitian kids, wehad white kids.
We had some of everybody.
Especially in an environmentlike music and art.
You had some of everybody.
The whole common ground was ourcreativity, and I grew up in the
(18:54):
60s and 70s, so I knew what thecivil rights movement was.
I understood the disparity, andit's not like I didn't know
racism existed.
Of course I knew it existed,but that was the first time it
had been directed at me.
Yeah, so I received it for theignorance that it was.
(19:16):
I received it for that poorlittle girl, what she is being
taught Right, 16, 17 years old.
That was what I felt.
I felt it's too late for hermom, but that poor little girl,
what she is being taught,because one day she's going to
grow up next to some person ofcolor that she's really going to
want to have as her best friendand not know how to approach it
(19:39):
.
She's going to miss out when Iwas in the?
U some of the.
When I got there we were doingshows like Camelot and Carousel
and all those Oklahoma all thosekinds of shows where I was
relegated to be in the ensemble.
I said but I don't want, I wantto audition for Guinevere.
I want to audition for Julieand they said well, no, dawn,
(20:00):
you're never going to be castthere because the theater at the
time was not, it's still not,funded by the university.
It's funded by the Friends ofTheater, by subscriptions.
So the paying donors decidewhat the curriculum will look
like.
But eventually they had toadmit that some of the most
(20:22):
talented students in thedepartment were the students of
color.
Sanya (20:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Dawnn Lewis (20:26):
My freshman year, myself and one of my professors,
dr John Soliday.
I will love him forever andappreciate him forever.
We've made history at the?
U when he cast me to play thelead role in no, no, nanette, I
was the first person of color toplay a traditionally white role
at the University of Miami.
The cover of the Miami Heraldthat said that summer said once
(20:50):
you get over the fact that DawnLewis is Black, you realize
she's really quite talented.
Go and see her in no, no,nanette.
Now, mind you, by the time Igraduated we were doing the Wiz,
we were doing Equus, we weredoing, you know, working, we
were doing those kinds of showsthat really supported the
diversity that was in theprogram.
So I'm really proud to havebeen a part of that growth.
(21:14):
And now when you go to the?
U they've got an amazing Blackstudent government and union and
the fraternities and thesororities are thriving on the
campus and I'm just really gladthat I was part of a
foundational beginning forchange and for awakening and for
growth.
That was never my intention.
I just wanted to maximize myopportunity.
(21:36):
School was expensive.
Sanya (21:38):
Yes.
Dawnn Lewis (21:39):
School was expensive and that was where I
chose to be.
So it's like well, if I'm goingto be here, I'm going to make
it worth my being here and,gratefully, through the four
years that I was there, theschool grew and learned at least
the department did and I guessit spread throughout the
university.
So I'm very very happy thatthat happened and proud to have
(22:00):
been a part of it.
Sanya (22:01):
Yeah, what doesn't break us only makes us stronger.
So you had an amazingfoundation.
You were able to optimize onyour opportunities.
You know high school college.
Able to optimize on youropportunities?
You know high school college.
Do you feel as if, once yougraduated from college, it
further prepared you forprofessional work as an actress
and singer?
Were you really prepared?
Dawnn Lewis (22:21):
Absolutely, because , starting so young, you learn
how to play bills, you learn howto get your hustle on, you
learn how to set yourself apart,and I learned that I set myself
apart by doing my best andbeing my best not necessarily
being better than you because,you bring something special to
(22:44):
the table.
That's something that my mom andmy grandmother instilled in me.
They were always very impressedupon me that I have what I have
and I do what I do by the graceof God.
But just know that you're notthe only one.
God is blessing.
God is blessing everyone, sodon't waste your energy or your
time being jealous of someoneelse's blessings or outshine
(23:06):
someone else's blessings.
God is positioning us so thatwe can all shine, so that his
kingdom and glory is revealed.
Okay, so while you're trying toshine and be respected and be
appreciated and be included,don't resent that in somebody
else.
We're all trying to do the samething.
So do what you do in order towalk successfully in your path
(23:30):
and please don't try to do it atthe expense of someone else,
because it's only going to comearound to bite you in the butt.
Yes, the truth is, a lot offolks don't like you just
because everybody else likes you.
Sanya (23:41):
And in this space of social media.
I'm so glad that you said thatmessage, because people are
looking at other people andwanting to be just like them,
not understanding that you arean individual.
You have your own gifts, youhave your own talents, you are
unique.
You don't have to be likeanyone else.
So I'm glad that you mentionedthat so that we can disrupt this
(24:01):
narrative that's being createdon social media, where everyone
is trying to be the sameindividual.
So life after college.
Or pull other folks down yeah,yeah, stop, please, stop hard,
stop.
So you graduated from college.
How soon thereafter did youland your first professional gig
?
Dawnn Lewis (24:21):
yeah, immediately immediately grateful.
I immediately got home, becamelead singer.
Well, I was already lead singerin a band, but now some of my
colleagues, classmates, were nowin New York and so we were
recording music.
I was professionally singingdemos.
(24:42):
I had my own record out.
I performed at the Apollo.
I won the Apollo.
I was a session singer, I was ajingle composer, so I was
writing music not just formyself but for commercials and
for other recording artists.
Yeah, I started working rightaway.
(25:04):
I started working right awaydoing shows off Broadway and in
two years I had booked my firstnational Broadway tour.
The Tap Dance Kid with our kid,10 years old at the time, was
Dulé Hill, who's now a grown manwith his own family and just
being so amazing at his craftwith the legendary Harold
(25:26):
Nicholas of the NicholasBrothers Hinton Battle God Rest
His Soul who just passed away,Ben Harney, the original Curtis
in Dreamgirls on Broadway.
The show was amazing and thatled, indirectly but directly, to
my then transferring to adifferent world, because the
same people who cast that showalso cast the Cosby show, so
(25:49):
they cast me to be in it afterbegging them for about three
months to let me audition, andthe musical director was aware
of my music background as asinger and songwriter, so he
called me and asked if I'd bewilling to work with him on the
theme song for this new series.
I said okay, sure.
And they did not know that theyhad hired the same person to do
two completely jobs on the sameshow until after they hired me.
Sanya (26:14):
Wait, I want to make sure that people understand what you
just said, because I don't wantthat to go over people's heads.
You wrote the theme song to ADifferent World.
I don't think that a lot ofpeople knew that, but you know,
even before we harp on that, Ijust want to kind of go back,
because I had a full circlemoment, because I saw myself as
(26:37):
a high school girl, because Iwant you to know that when you
were in the tap dance kit, I wasa high school student sitting
in the audience watching.
Oh, wow, yes.
So you know, having thisconversation with you and
individuals like you who reallypoured into me without even
knowing it, fills me with suchgraciousness.
(26:59):
It makes me kind of tear upbecause you know you didn't have
to be here.
You could have chosen any otherplatform, but you chose this
one.
So once again, you know, I wantyou to really understand the
impact that your presence, theimpact of your work, has had on
so many people, so manygenerations my daughter's 29,
(27:20):
and she knows who you are.
So that speaks volumes to yourpersistence and your passion
that you speak about becausepeople are about to graduate
from college and for you to havea testimony that after college,
you were able to still landsuccessfully.
These are the stories that weneed to hear about, because
(27:40):
sometimes we think that roomsand spaces are not accessible,
but when you speak about yourjourney, the honesty of it and
being unapologetic in it, youknow going to classes that you
weren't even registered for incollege.
Dawnn Lewis (27:53):
I love the opportunity.
No, I wasn't registered.
That's just not where they toldme to go.
I went where I was told to go.
I didn't go where they told meto go.
Sanya (28:02):
So don't try this at home , people.
Well, don't try it at home.
Dawnn Lewis (28:06):
Don't say well, dawn Lewis said that.
Sanya (28:12):
No, no, no, so wait a minute.
Okay, so you wrote the themesong for A Different World.
Was that at the same time thatyou were auditioning for the
role of Julissa it?
Dawnn Lewis (28:18):
was.
It was Within the same sevendays.
I wrote the theme song andbooked the spot.
Like I said, I had bugged thecasting directors for almost
three months to let me audition.
When I heard about the show, Iwas still on the road with the
tap dance kid and they said no,we love what you're doing in the
show.
You just stay right where you,where you are, it's like.
But okay, everybody can't be afreshman, somebody has to be a
(28:41):
sophomore or something.
So I got off the road, the tourended.
I was absolutely collectingunemployment checks, was down to
my last unemployment check.
When they called me back, thiswas on a Wednesday.
They said are you stillinterested in auditioning?
I said absolutely.
Can you be here tomorrow?
Absolutely.
Less than an hour later, themusical director, stu Gardner,
(29:03):
called me and said are youavailable to write this song for
me?
And he told me what it was andwhat the concept was that the
Lisa Bonet character, deniseHuxtable, was going to be going
off to college and she's got thesupport of her parents.
And I was like, ok.
He says well, all right, sofine, I'm going to send a
messenger with a cassette withmy thoughts for the music and
(29:26):
let me see what you write overthat and I'll see you in the
studio Friday.
I said, well, don't you want tomeet first to see what I come
up with?
And he says no, if you're thesame person that wrote the stuff
that I heard, I think you cando what I need done.
I'll see you Friday.
So sure enough, at that point Ithought my friends were playing
a joke on me, because that justdoesn't happen.
So I was casting directors backand said did you call me to
(29:49):
come into Mar?
They said yes, is there aproblem?
I said no, not, I can be there.
So I immediately, god's honesttruth.
I immediately thought to myselfokay, this is big, this is
bigger than anything I've donebefore, meaning the theme song.
I audition for stuff all thetime.
Sanya (30:08):
But as a writer.
Dawnn Lewis (30:09):
I know what it is to copyright music.
I know what it is to be mindfulof the business of show.
It's called show business forbusiness twice as long as the
word show, for a reason.
So you can get caught up in theshow and get run over by the
business, or you handle yourbusiness and the blessing and
the grace and the gravy is theshow and what it manifests.
(30:32):
So I went into the yellow pagesand started looking up lawyers
and to see who I could get torepresent me.
And I remembered I had one ofthe courses I studied in school
was music merchandising, and Ihad a book called this Business
of Music.
So I looked at the front of thebook.
It was written by two lawyers.
I had an office in Manhattan.
I caught 411.
What's their number?
(30:52):
I called them.
I said do you by any chancehave a free paralegal service,
because I just graduated fromcollege?
But I need your help, but Ican't afford you.
They said well, can you come intomorrow?
Tell us what's going on.
So after my audition to be inthe show, I walked over to their
office and told them what itwas.
They said we would be happy torepresent you.
(31:14):
I said okay you missed the partwhere I said I can't afford you,
I need to speak to yoursecretary or your godchild or
somebody who knows a few things.
And they said no, we'reactually impressed that you
didn't just go ahead and signsomething, that you really want
to do this the right way, so wewill handle this free of charge.
(31:35):
All we ask is that when you getthe opportunity, you be willing
to pay it forward.
I had never heard that termbefore.
Sanya (31:42):
But what?
Dawnn Lewis (31:43):
I'm saying is, when you are in a position to be of
service or help to someone else,you be willing to do that and
that's all the pay that we need.
Help to someone else, you bewilling to do that and that's
all the pay that we need.
And until they passed away forthe blessing that those
royalties have been to me, theywould never accept a dime.
And when things got complicatedwith the theme song, because
(32:03):
one of the things that theynegotiated was that I would get
on-screen credit, I would getpaid 50-50.
Sanya (32:10):
I would get on-screen credit.
Dawnn Lewis (32:10):
I would get paid 50-50.
And the director said well, mrCosby gets, you know, 50% of
everything that I do, so we'llhave to split it three ways.
And my attorney said no, mrCosby can have 50% of your 50%,
but Dawn Lewis wrote the lyrics,she wrote the music, I mean,
she wrote the melody of the song.
Technically the song is hers,but we get this, she will split
(32:32):
it 50 50 and she will get screencredit.
So they said, okay, yeah, butwhen the pilot aired my name was
not on the screen.
It just said Mr Gardner and MrCosby.
So my lawyers had to getinvolved again and no charge to
me to make sure that that wascorrected immediately no charge
(32:54):
to me to make sure that that wascorrected immediately.
Sanya (32:56):
Yeah, but did that cause any controversy for you as an
actress?
Because I'm sure it did.
Like you're taking them tocourt and you know, suing over
the song while you're acting.
Dawnn Lewis (33:04):
We didn't go to court, we didn't end up having
to sue, but it was like I gotthe response I got even when we
were doing Hanging with MrCooper and they had us sing the
opening theme song.
It's like what do you mean?
You want credit?
You're in the show, what elsedo you want?
It's like no, you hired me as amusician, as a composer, you
didn't hire me.
No, I'm sorry, you hired me asan actor, you didn't hire me as
(33:26):
a musician, a composer or asinger.
That's a completely separatereality.
So, yes, and it's in mycontract.
So the attorney said you knowwhat, you take whatever time you
need, but until then you are inbreach of contract and can't
use the theme song until you fixit.
So it went from this could takemonths to it was fixed the next
(33:47):
week.
Sanya (33:48):
Wow, where does that come from?
Where does the audacity, theaudacity, the being unapologetic
, you've entered into spaces androoms and you've kind of
changed what they thought theycould give you.
Where does that come from?
Dawnn Lewis (34:06):
I'm not entirely sure, but when you know you've
got right on your side, when youknow you're not fighting the
uphill battle entirely byyourself, it makes a big
difference.
It makes a big difference andfrom my vantage point I just got
there.
So the thought of I don't wantto make any waves, it's like,
(34:30):
yeah, but I don't want to betaken advantage of either.
And if I say yes to this, ifthis is how we're going to start
, where is this going to go?
All you're going to do is justkeep walking all over me.
And who wants to do that?
Who wants to do it?
And I didn't, and it just.
It put me in a frame of mindfor the remainder of my career,
(34:52):
even today.
It's not necessarily the mostpopular position.
Sometimes it gets youblackballed when you insist on
being treated equitably, andthat's not even with any extras,
that's not even with any gravy.
That's like come on now, y'all,y'all make billions and
millions, millions and billionsof dollars and you're going to
begrudge me what I work forSeriously, while you pay someone
(35:17):
else exponentially more fortheir participation, which isn't
even as much as what I'm doing.
But I'm supposed to suck it upand just be grateful to have a
job Come on.
Sanya (35:28):
So that makes me think of another question when we talk
about disparities within theindustry.
As an actress who is a woman ofcolor, have you encountered
other situations or experienceswhere there was a disparity in
the way that you were treatedjust based upon the color of
your skin, and how did younavigate around that?
Dawnn Lewis (35:48):
You finish your contract and do what you can to
get out.
Yeah, so I've done a few ofthose jobs.
I've done a few of those jobs.
You know, a different world wasa blessing and a real challenge
.
Being in that environment areal challenge.
Number two show on television,not number two black show, not
(36:09):
no number two half hour showbetween us and the Cosby show.
We went back and forth betweennumber one and number two for
almost six years straight.
Our show.
We were never nominated for anEmmy.
We were never even invited tothe Emmys to hand a trophy to
somebody else, never had acommercial, never had a
billboard, never had anhour-long special.
The love that we are gettingnow as we are going around to
(36:31):
different places almost 40 yearslater, is more than we ever saw
, than when we were actually ontelevision.
We knew the show was a successbecause of the ratings, but we
weren't treated like a success.
We weren't paid like a success.
There were several shows thatweren't as highly rated as ours,
that featured predominantlywhite casts, that were
(36:55):
exponentially more than we were.
We were basically at that timetreated like we should just be
happy to have a job.
We can get some more y'all inhere in a minute if you make too
much, too much noise, yeah.
Sanya (37:09):
Things always come right on time and you just got to
trust in God's timing and notlean on your own understanding.
So you've been saying we'vebeen seeing it all on social
media, all on television thatthe cast of A Different World is
now getting the accolades andthe awareness that they deserved
back then.
But there was a time where youdidn't hear anything.
(37:31):
Did you ever think that ADifferent World would now
resurface to receive theattention today?
Dawnn Lewis (37:40):
world would now resurface to receive the
attention today.
Well, I didn't.
I wasn't anticipating itgetting the attention that it's
getting us, getting thereception that we're getting,
but the mere fact that in 37years there's not been one hour
of one day, of one week, of onemonth, of one year, that that
show has not been on televisionsomewhere in the planet, and in
several cases, multiple times aday, already speaks for itself.
(38:02):
The fact that people still findit relevant, the fact that
people still find itentertaining, the fact that I
walked in, I was the keynotespeaker at Harris Stone
University a week ago for theircommencement and I sat and took
a picture in between two younglay ladies named Jalisa who were
graduating.
The influence that the show hasmade, the impact, the
(38:25):
empowerment that the showcontinues to give no, that no
longer surprises me, it's just ahuge blessing.
It is amazingly humbling when Isee people of all generations,
of different nationalities,singing the words to the theme
song like it's a personal anthem.
(38:45):
They know every single word.
I got to tell you how emotionalthat is.
We were just on the View notthat long ago and everyone in
the audience was on their feet,didn't matter what color, what
age, what gender, singing thewords out, and I started crying.
They had to bring me tissues onthe set because I wrote my
personal story at 16 years old,leaving Brooklyn, going across
(39:09):
the country, with all I wasempowered with were what?
The words and wisdom andtraditions and warnings that
were deposited in me by my momand my grandmother and my
teachers and my brothers.
That's all I had and it wasokay.
Go figure it out.
And that was what I did andthat was what I wrote.
(39:33):
I changed it slightly.
You know to say that my parentsloved me, but in my mind, my
parents were my village.
Whether it was my mom, mygrandmother, you know it wasn't
my biological dad and my mom,although you learn lessons from
everyone of what to do and whatnot to do.
Yeah, that was all I was armedwith.
So to hear people sing thosewords out.
(39:55):
It does.
I was armed with so to hearpeople sing those words out.
It does.
It makes me emotional, but itdoesn't change the realities of
what happened back then, whetherit was different world or hang
with Mr Cooper or any other jobwhere it was just a real
challenge.
Sometimes it starts from thetop down, Sometimes it happens
right from side by side by thepeople who are supposed to be
(40:18):
your friends, colleagues.
It can be very, veryinteresting.
It's a very interestingindustry, the entertainment
industry, but we're still hereand continue to be grateful.
Sanya (40:31):
Good, good, yeah, you spoke about a different world
airing all the time.
When I get dressed in themorning, at seven o'clock in the
morning, I'm watching ADifferent World on TV one.
I'm watching A Different Worldevery single morning, even now.
I'm situated in a high schoolbuilding and I had a few high
school students linger aroundbecause they was like you are
not about to talk to Dawn Lewis.
I said yes, I am.
(40:51):
They were like we don't believeyou, so I had them come in just
for the introduction and I hadthem leave.
But everyone knows about thiscultural phenomenon.
The cast were amazing.
Thank you.
Were you able to develop strongrelationships with the rest of
your cast members on A DifferentWorld?
Dawnn Lewis (41:10):
Yes, yeah, some of them stronger than others.
Everyone has succeeded so well.
Everyone is continuing tothrive, personally as well as
professionally.
I mean, as you can imagine, I'mcloser to some than others.
You know, back in the day, I'mnot going to lie some of it was
(41:32):
a challenge, because the goal ofthe producers, from the top
down, was to divide and conquer,play us against each other.
You know what I mean that kindof it was.
It was very interesting andunnecessary, which was, for me,
a big part of the reason why Iwanted to change shows.
Sanya (41:52):
That was why I left A Different World to go over to
hang with Mr Cooper, um, andthat ended up actually being, uh
, a more difficult environmentyeah, because hanging with Mr
Cooper, like we didn't see youafter season two, and for me,
for me, it just seemed as if theshow took a different direction
(42:13):
.
I don't think that the networkwas ready to have two Black
women living with a Black maleand it just be a platonic
relationship and they wanted tokind of whitewash it and make it
a more friendly show.
Am I correct in assuming that?
Dawnn Lewis (42:27):
No, no, it was the Black version of Three's Company
.
True, it was the Black versionof Three's Company, so that
(42:51):
wasn't the issue coming out ofthe mouths of people of color
that we, as people of color,would spend countless hours
every week telling them.
This is not funny, this isdemeaning, this is embarrassing,
this is insulting.
You're writing things that wedon't want to have come out of
(43:12):
our mouths, and I apparently wasthe most vocal person about
that.
And so, yeah, by the end of thefirst year, the show was one of
the was the highest rated newseries on any network during
that first season.
But it wasn't without work.
It wasn't without challenge,challenges.
We worked through every singlescript, every single week, and
(43:37):
the show that was produced wasfunny.
Sanya (43:40):
However, getting to that part was emotionally challenging
, week after week after week,and yeah, yeah, yeah, I can
believe it, because I do knowthat when we have people seated
at the table who don't look likeus, they do want to create this
narrative that kind of portraysBlack people in a way that
(44:01):
isn't really true of who wetruly are.
So I'm glad that we haveindividuals like you navigating
through the industry, speakingup and changing the way that the
world should view us.
So thank you for that.
I do know that we have to closeout this conversation, but I do
have two things that I want todiscuss.
Dawnn Lewis (44:20):
Talk about your foundation, a New Day Foundation
junior high school, high school, as I was growing up, to talk
to my tea teachers, to thankthem for their encouragement and
(44:40):
pouring into me, and as well asto answer the questions of
those students to say, well,what's junior high school like?
Well, you know, this happensand that happens.
What's high school like?
Well, this happens, and thathappens.
What's college like?
Well, this happens.
So, as was my custom, when ADifferent World aired, I went
back to my high school music andart and this time I walked into
the lobby and all I heard wasoh my God, it's Jaleesa.
(45:02):
And I got in the lobby and Ispent the rest of that day going
from one class to the next,answering their questions about
the business and how toparticipate and how to find
yourself within it and not becompletely overwhelmed or
intimidated by it.
And that's when a light wentoff for me that this wasn't just
about me and what made me feelgood, but that I actually had
(45:24):
something to offer.
So after that, subsequent years, I would fund workshops,
masterclasses, et cetera, toimpart information.
About eight years ago, I wantedto do some national programs,
and so I went to theorganizations and corporations
that I've been supporting overthe years and they said, dawn,
we love you.
We know this isn't a fly bynight idea for you, because
(45:45):
we've watched you in thecommunity for more than three
decades.
But we can't just give youmoney.
You have to be a nonprofit.
So that was how I formed the ANew Day Foundation, which is a
play on my name, dawn A New Dayas well.
As our vision is to be a new dayof opportunity for young people
, for underserved youth andcommunities.
That where you were yesterdayis not where you have to be
(46:06):
today, nor will you end uptomorrow.
We want to be your new day ofopportunity.
So that's what we do, andeverything we do we do free of
charge.
So all of our fundraising,every single dollar that anyone
donates to us, goes to providingthe programs and the
conferences and the materials,entrance fees, insurance all of
that for our participants.
(46:28):
So all they have to do isregister and commit to showing
up.
We feed them, we introduce themto different cultural and career
opportunities that they're notnormally exposed to, everything
from taking them camping orrodeo.
I do a lot of voiceoveranimation work, where I've taken
them into the studio and taughtthem how to produce and develop
(46:48):
their own animation and videogame projects.
And we give out scholarships atour annual conference, which
this year is June 15th on theUSC campus.
So if you go to the A New DayFoundation website,
wwwanewdayfoundationnet, you'llsee the flyer with the QR code.
Registration is required againbecause we need a headcount to
(47:10):
make sure we order enough meals,we order enough workshop
supplies all of that that wehave enough classroom space and
you can register.
And the conference focuses onfinancial literacy and
technology and we give outanywhere from six to 12
scholarships of $2,000 each anda brand new laptop.
And so our youth programs thatgo throughout the year or the
(47:32):
annual conference, most of thekids, once they come to one of
our opportunities or programs orexperiences, they keep coming
until they age out, until theycan't anymore.
So the conference is for highschool juniors and seniors and
their parents we have workshopsfor the parents to get them
informed as well as collegefreshmen and sophomores.
So that four-year demographicpreparing to go to college and
(47:56):
having just arrived.
Now what?
Sanya (47:58):
I love it.
I love it.
You know, once again, peoplewould not understand your
philanthropic work.
I, too, work in the educationsystem as a high school
administrator.
I definitely want to stayconnected with you to see how we
could potentially bring thisprogram to the students here in
the Bronx, a community that isvery, very marginalized and
(48:19):
disenfranchised.
But as an educator fromBrooklyn, I'm committed to going
into the different boroughs andmaking sure that children see
us, because I'm a firm believerthat children can't be what they
do not see.
So thank you for being inspaces, like I said, with the
fortitude.
You for being in spaces, like Isaid, with the fortitude, with
(48:41):
the intellect, and because youare a culture texturizer, you
are once again adding layers andshape and fierceness to a
conversation that is sodeserving in our spaces.
What's next for you?
What's going on?
Dawnn Lewis (48:52):
More work with the foundation and the work with the
foundation goes wherever I go.
When I was there in New Yorkdoing Tina, the Tina Turner
musical, I sponsored kids fromthe Renaissance school there in
the Bronx Renaissance EMS tocome and treated most of them to
their very first Broadway show.
As well as we did programs andempowerment workshops while I
(49:13):
was there with some Brooklynschools.
I went to the Billy and taughtsome acting classes during my
days off while I was at theBilly.
So I have created and developeda couple of new TV series
projects.
I was fortunate enough to sellone to a network a number of
years ago, so I'm in the processof developing that now and
getting that one sold a new onesold now and still doing my
(49:36):
voiceover work.
I must do like about a dozendifferent shows now.
I do Star Trek, lower Decks asCaptain Carol Freeman.
I'm Bernice Hibbert on theSimpsons.
I am LaBarbera on Futurama.
I'm Miss Patty on Apple andOnion.
I'm Granny McStuffins on DocMcStuffins.
I'm in Duncanville.
(49:57):
I'm in.
Mcstuffins on Doc McStuffins.
I'm in Duncanville.
I'm in.
Sanya (49:58):
Yeah, I'm grateful oh my gosh, I love it.
I love it.
I love to see us show up andshow out.
Let me tell you for the past Iwould say six months I've been
writing down lessons that I'velearned in my 50s and I wanted
to ask you about a lesson thatyou've learned, but doing my
research, ask you about a lessonthat you've learned, but doing
my research, I came across alesson that you learned I will
(50:22):
never show up and not show up,and everything that you talked
about really explains how youhave been showing up in spaces.
Dr Dawn Lewis, please keepshowing up in these spaces,
because we need you.
We will applaud you, we willhold you up in moments where you
don't feel your strongest.
(50:43):
I guarantee you because I'm oneof those people.
Thank you, I wish you nothingbut continued success.
I pray over the trajectory ofyour life because we need you,
sister, and I applaud the workthat you have done and the work
that you will continue to do.
I say I say thank you so much,take care and continue blessings
(51:06):
continue blessings to you too,thank you, thank you, thank you
bye-bye, bye-bye.
This is amazing.
I mean bye-bye, oh, and that'syou again, I'm trying to.
So there you have it.
(51:26):
Oh my gosh, another amazingedition of sonya on it.
It was truly humbling.
I almost teed up a few times.
I'm a thug, I'm not supposed tocry.
I was crying on the inside.
I was crying inside.
Ok, dr Dawn Lewis, I'm notgoing to call her Dawn Lewis.
Dr Dawn Lewis.
(51:46):
She worked hard for thatdoctorate degree in humanities,
ok, do you?
Did you not hear all of theamazing things that she has done
, things that you weren't evenaware of?
So you know, a proverbialgraduate of Hillman college, she
still goes into schoolsimparting her wisdom to students
(52:14):
.
I'm in awe.
I didn't know all of thesethings about her.
Did you know that she wrote thetheme song to a different world
?
Did you know that?
I was going to ask her to youknow just about more, about the
relationships with her and thecast of a different world?
But the conversation I lovewhen conversations with my
guests just take on a road andturn of its own.
(52:38):
So make sure that you stayconnected to Dawn Lois.
I'm telling you, when we seepeople navigating in spaces and
showing up and showing up andbeing unafraid well, maybe being
afraid a little bit, but stillbeing unapologetic, pushing
through, being afraid andtelling people no, that's not
(53:02):
right, I won't do it this way,I'm going to do it that way.
She was in college and althoughshe was registered to take
other classes, particularclasses, she said I took those
classes in high school.
These are the classes I needand because of that, because of
her vision, because of hervision, she created this
(53:26):
conversation and they created awhole new lane for a major for
her and other students comingafter her.
When I talk about trendsetters,this is what I'm talking about.
You just can't wake up everysingle day breathing, sucking in
air and not pouring in and notgiving back.
(53:47):
You know, I love when I speakto celebrities and it's not just
about the glitz and the glamour.
Darling, I'm starring on thisnew HBO series and I'm starring
in this new Lionsgate film.
Yeah, that's good girl, that'sreal good.
But what I love to hear is howthey are giving back to the
(54:09):
community.
So, a Brooklyn girl she has myheart because us Brooklyn girls,
when I tell you God broke themold when he created the
Brooklyn queen, there's nothinglike us.
Nothing like us.
Don't hate.
Don't hate, because I knowy'all gonna be in the comments
like uh-uh, mm-hmm, boo, mm-hmm.
(54:30):
So I'm gonna close out thisconversation because I just need
to let it marinate a little bit.
I just need to let it marinatea little bit.
I just need to let it marinatethat I was in the presence of Dr
Dawn Lewis and I'm really goingto connect with her.
Stay connected with Dr DawnLewis to see how I can get her
program in additional highschools in the Bronx, manhattan,
(54:54):
brooklyn, queens, because it isso, so necessary and needed.
A lot of you probably didn'teven know that I'm an educator.
I've been in education for 25years or something like that,
and I'm committed.
I'm committed to marginalizedand disenfranchised communities
because I do believe thatchildren can't be what they do
(55:17):
not see.
So when you wake up every singleday and you step out your front
door, do something for someoneelse other than yourself.
Okay, but I need you to dosomething for me right now.
I need to make sure that yousubscribe to Sonia on air.
Okay, let's put that there.
Make sure that you subscribe ToSanya On Air.
(55:40):
See it streaming.
You see it streaming on thebottom.
Make sure that you subscribe toSanya On Air.
Make sure you like, make sureyou share, make sure you leave a
comment.
This has been another Amazingedition of Sanya On Air.
I'm just going to play theapplause Song music right now.
And we're just going to playthe applause song music right
now.
And we're just going to danceour way out of this edition of
(56:03):
Sonya on Air.
Let's dance y'all, party it out, smooches.
We're going to keep dancing.
We're going to keep dancing.
This is Sonya on Air.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.