October 23, 2023 • 53 mins
Pop the champagne and cue the confetti because it's a milestone moment for Sanya On-Air! We're celebrating our 100th episode with an exclusive chat that you won't want to miss. We've got the powerhouse duo, Jocelyn Bioh and Whitney White, the playwright and director behind the Broadway sensation, Jaja's African Hair Braiding, in the house. As they share their journey of creating this groundbreaking play focused on black women and the immigrant experience, you'll get a front-row seat to the exploration of their casting process, community response, and the ripple effect their work is making.
As we glide through our star-studded celebration, we're not just sticking to the script. We're also dissecting the latest buzz around celebrities like Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith, and Shannon Sharp's eyebrow-raising opinions. Plus, be prepared to delve deeper into the conversations around black hair. Our special guests, Jocelyn and Whitney, illuminate how their play introduces hairstyles as characters, igniting discussions on potentially damaging beauty products. They're painting a vivid picture of the beauty, power, and complexities surrounding black hair, and you're invited to be a part of this enlightening conversation.
To round off this landmark episode, we're stepping into the realm of self-discovery and authenticity. Together, we'll explore the significance of nurturing creative careers and standing resolute in our truth. You'll learn why the pressure on young people to take the traditional college path can limit their potential, and how art, like Jaja's African Hair Braiding, holds the power to influence perspectives, all the way to the voting booth. So, join us on this transformational journey, and remember to hit the like button, and follow Sanya On-Air on all streaming platforms to stay in the loop!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is not an episode.
When I was coming out, we hadto go outside the city.
We had to go to the familywater town.
We downed doors.
This was the first time Billhad ever gone on this family, he
said.
His girlfriend told him this isnot a family and out of my
(00:22):
mouth I said F.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
you Fans are asking for a positive women and a
family and business life.
That's what we're going to show, and we're going to show you
how she's born when I wasspeaking my real story.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
this is the day that I am.
I filled myself up with all thedreams, without a man's help,
without a basketball player.
This is what's taking me to thePatriot for a box White
cisgendered girls have definedfor us should be how we define
ourselves.
That's what they were saying onthe street.
I didn't say it.
(00:55):
That's what they were saying onthe street.
It's the bad news and thebulletin.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
You are now tuned into anotheramazing edition of Sanya On Air.
I'm your host, sanyaHudson-Pain, and how do I start
a feature in every single show?
Well, you won't guess it thistime.
(01:15):
Today, sanya On Air iscelebrating its 100th episode.
Give it up for your girl.
Give it up for your girl.
Around the board Standingovation.
Okay, it is not easy.
Sanya On Air started whenpodcasting was considered taboo.
It was considered not a realjob, not a career exploration.
(01:39):
But I said you know what I seesomething about to happen in
this podcasting space and Ijumped right on it, and this is
why I am able to bring you allnew celebrity interviews,
unpacking their pivotal momentsand their milestones, each and
every single week.
So, before we go any further,what do I always ask you to do?
I need you to subscribe,subscribe, subscribe.
(02:01):
This social media space is socrazy.
There's an algorithm and youreally lead the algorithm.
Social media pays attention towhat you're watching, what
you're liking and what you arereposting and who you're
following.
So if you are following, ifyou're liking, if you're
(02:22):
reposting all Sanya On Aircontent, guess what More similar
Sanya On Air content is drivendirectly your way.
But once again, black girl inmedia.
We do not see enough blackwomen in media, especially black
women of my age.
We don't see that too often Inthis whole digital space, even
(02:43):
in the world of television, film, music, beauty, fashion.
It is all led by 20-somethingyear olds, 30-something year old
.
They're starting to look at youlike you might want to go and
apply for AARP.
So when you have seasoned womensuch as myself really just
(03:04):
trying to not bringsalaciousness but bring
intelligent, educational,entertaining content, we need
you to keep following.
So let me tell you abouttoday's guests, because you've
already given it up for yourgirl for 100 episodes and I
appreciate you so much.
(03:25):
So, coming up on today's SanyaOn Air, I'm so excited, so so
excited.
Two females If you have not yetheard or even seen the Broadway
play Jaja's African HairBraiding, make sure you do so.
Immediately following thisconversation, I have none other
(03:48):
than Jaja's African HairBraiding, the playwright Jocelyn
Bio, and I also have thedirector Whitney White.
They're going to be joining usin just a few short moments, so
just make sure that you staytuned.
So what I want to jump intoright now is let's just talk
about a few things that's beenhappening in celebrity news,
(04:14):
most recently over the past fewmonths.
Jaja Pinkin and Will Smithcannot stay out of the news when
I tell you, I want to know whoMs Jada's PR is, who's her
publicist, because this womanstays in the news all the time
about salaciousness,salaciousness, the pettiness,
(04:36):
the drama.
Well, this time, honey, youknow, because Will Smith and
Smacked another brother andSmacked Chris Rock.
That happened, but they arestill trending in the news
because Jada Pinkett Smith hasrecently announced that she and
Will Smith have been separatedsince 2016.
(04:57):
I love a relationship like that.
I don't know if this is just.
You know how seasoned womenshould be living their intimate
relationships.
Don't nobody know nothing, buty'all do.
I love it.
I love when you just don't knowanything except what they want
you to think so anyway.
So she said that she and WillSmith have been separated since
(05:20):
2016.
Sign me up, I'll take two.
I want a man who I don't claimI don't love, but he will smack
the out of anybody who talksabout me in a disparaging way.
Give me two of those, give me,matter of fact, give me three,
because I need one on theweekends too.
(05:40):
What is going on in the world ofcelebrity news?
So let me tell you.
So, ms Jada Pinkett Smith.
She has a new book coming out.
So this is why.
This is why she is trending.
Ain't nobody even talking aboutthat book?
No one even knows the name ofsaid book.
It could be called your mama.
Nobody would know the name ofthis book because she is just
(06:05):
talking about solaceousness,because she knows that you all
will be clicking and repostingand following the nonsense.
I don't understand it.
I am just waiting to see how isshe going to be in the news
next week?
Because not only she talkingabout how she and Will Smith
have been divorced since 2016.
(06:25):
Shea, tupac, tupac, he might aswell be alive.
He might as well be alivebecause the way Jada Pinkett
Smith always has his namerolling across her lips and
(06:47):
tongue, you would think thatthey just got here last night
and the loving was just so goodthat she woke up in the morning
and said let me tell you allabout it.
She talks about that man somuch, so now she is also saying
that they were never involvedromantically.
But that's not what she wassaying.
For decades and centuries she'snever said that.
(07:09):
She made it seem as if she wasTupac's first and only love, the
one that got away.
Well, now she's saying theywere never romantically involved
, they were only friends, and ifthey had gotten married, that
he probably would have divorcedher the next day.
I just can't keep up.
But whoever her publicist is,if you are looking for a new
(07:30):
client, how about your girl?
I am right here, okay.
So another thing that happenedin celebrity news.
So you know Shannon Sharp.
He has a very, very popularpodcast.
So recently he had Chad OchoSinko, I believe that's his name
, on his podcast and they weregoing back and forth.
(07:50):
So Shannon Sharp was sayingthat a woman can't pass gas or
do number two, boo boo, that shecan't do that in front of him
because he would just let her go.
So I really had to think aboutthat, like, and even my daughter
asked me this question Mom,have you ever passed gas or did
(08:12):
number two in front of a man?
And I'm embarrassed to say allof the above.
All of the above.
Now, it wasn't on purpose, butit was after a very intimate
tonight.
Just picture this.
Okay, it was late at night andthe stars were just as twinkling
, and we came in from dinner andI was spending night.
(08:34):
Now, mind you, I've had dinner,champagne, a few other
cocktails, and we got intimateand my stomach said no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, no.
I'm not going to hit that highnote.
But my stomach said no, andthere was no way that I was
going to sleep overnight andpossibly fall asleep, and then,
(08:55):
you know, I'm just singing awhole other song in my sleep and
waking up, and he looking at melike so we didn't want to do
that, so I said you know what?
I have to use your bathroom andI need a candle.
Now, mind you, I did this when Iwas in my 40s, you know,
(09:17):
because the older you get, themore unabashed you are, the more
unfiltered you become.
But I had to, I absolutely hadto.
I think I understood it, though, and I'm not with him, and he's
still ringing my phone.
Okay, so that tells yousomething, but let me, I would
not purposely like pass gas infront of a guy.
(09:39):
I just would not.
I think that because I'm a lady.
I'm a lady and I just think itis so un-lady like to just be
like yeah, so you want to golike who was doing that?
A woman with no home training,that's who.
So, ladies, do not pass gas ordo number two in front of a man.
(10:01):
Now, exception to the rule.
Now, if I'm with you for yearsand we know each other, then we
know each other.
Okay, I'm passing gas, I'm usinga bathroom, number two and it's
going to be okay.
So you know, it's a shame thatyou have to put you know the
representative when you'redating until he gets to know you
(10:23):
.
That's when that bonnet comeson.
You passing gas, you doingnumber two.
So, ladies, don't pass gas ordo number two in front of your
man.
Wait a little bit until youknow you get that ring, or until
you know he ain't goinganywhere, because doing those
(10:44):
things it doesn't define who youare, but in the beginning it
does.
He's looking at you like you abad she-chow, so don't do it,
okay.
So that is all that I have fortrending celebrity news.
So why don't we do this?
We're going to take a commercialbreak and we'll be right back
with the playwright, jocelyn Bioand the director, whitney White
(11:08):
, of Broadway's all new play,jaja's African Hair Brady.
Make sure you subscribe andwe'll be right back.
We're talking about completingthe Chinas.
You're crying inside.
You're crying inside Chai.
(11:36):
You're crying inside.
On the outside, you like it?
It's too much.
Don't turn the camera off.
Okay?
So, just like I promised you, wehave two amazing guests, and
what these guests don't know isthat this is Sonia Onair's 100th
(11:59):
episode.
So, without any further ado, Ihave the playwright and the
director of Zha Zha's AfricanHair Braiding, jocelyn Biyo and
Whitney White.
How are you two young ladies?
We're good.
Thank you for calling us youngladies.
We're always going to be youngladies.
I don't care how old we are.
We are young ladies.
So let's just get right on intoit.
(12:24):
Like I said, this is SoniaOnair's 100th episode and having
you two on was so intentional.
I ran into I believe it wasWhitney I'm not sure if it was
you two, jocelyn when I was onmy way to the theater.
Yes, I think it was both of us.
We were coming from gettingdinner and we were on our way to
the theater and you had likesome beautiful braids, right,
(12:45):
whitney?
I can't remember now.
Yeah, they'll be back next week, but let me just tell you about
the experience.
I was having a conversation withmy daughter, who was 28, about
the importance of going to seethis play because it is for us
and by us, so justintergenerational.
(13:06):
So my first question is for you, jocelyn why write Jaja's
African Hair Braiding?
Why, well, I always writestories that center black women,
so I knew I was always going toany play I write is going to be
about that.
But I really wanted to write alove letter to my hair braiding
(13:28):
ladies.
I wanted to write a love letterto Harlem, who I feel like.
These ladies are the heart ofHarlem.
You can't walk up and down 125thStreet without running into a
hair braiding shop or like anAfrican hair braiding lady
trying to like so let's see youto get braids.
You have braids in your ownhead and they would still ask if
you are braids.
And they're lifesavers, they'reaunties, they're mothers,
(13:53):
they're therapists.
They've been everything to meat any single moment in my life,
and I grew up in New York anduptown in Washington Heights,
but I went to the hair braidingsalons in Harlem and it kind of
dawned on me some years ago.
I was like this is like a ripeplace to have a play.
I didn't know what the playwould be about.
(14:14):
I didn't know you know wherethe story would go, but I knew I
wanted to center them, and sorarely do we have opportunities
like that to write stories thatcenter us in that kind of way.
And I certainly did notanticipate that Broadway would
come calling when the play wasdone and I was ready to share it
(14:39):
.
I did not think that anopportunity to do it on Broadway
would happen.
So when it did, it just feltlike.
It just felt like that wasGod's promise on the play and I
was really happy that I didn'tfall back on that, and we are
happy that you didn't fall backon that either.
(15:00):
And, as you mentioned, it is alove letter.
Let me tell you my hair is awhole other person.
She has its own social securitynumber, birth certificate,
everything, and I too get myhair braided on 125th Street.
So this was so new and I knowwhen you talk about black hair
it is such a nuancedconversation that is so
(15:20):
triggering and traumatizing forso many women of color.
So my next question is for you,whitney.
So Jocelyn wrote the play, butyou kind of orchestrated the
rhythm of the play.
So when you were handed thescript, how did you decide to
bring the imagery to life?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Well, similarly to Jocelyn, I've also spent the
bulk of my young adult childhood, young adult and adult life in
a braiding salon.
It was in Chicago, but when Iread it I immediately saw things
I recognized and women I knewand I knew that the play needed
(16:02):
to feel real.
It's a real story about realpeople and therefore the
initiative of it on stage had tohave a sense of realism to it.
And also I had been a fan ofJocelyn's work and I've seen her
plays and I think I had been tothe school of Jocelyn BO a
little bit and was like, okay, Ican get in here on this rhythm,
but you know, when you're inthe salon things move at a mile
(16:22):
a minute.
Those women don't wait for you.
You might be in there all daybut you'll see a whole lifetime
go by Lovers, peddlers, friends,fights, squabbles and money
made.
So I knew I just wanted to putsomething on stage that
reflected the reality that Iknew to be true, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yes, and even before the stage curtains went up,
there was a story within itselfwith the images of the corn
rolls, the twists, and I lookedat my door and I said, okay, we
had that hair.
It's just had a conversationbefore the play even started.
So thank you to the both of youfor starting a conversation
(17:04):
even before the words of theplay even began.
So the next question is for you, jocelyn.
I know that Taraji P Henson isa producer for Jaja's African
Hair Braiding.
How did that come about?
Well, that's really Whitney,actually.
Well, I'll say a couple ofthings happened.
(17:28):
Whitney and I separately workedwith Taraji's production company
on different projects over thecourse of the last couple of
years.
We both had separatelydeveloped a relationship with
Taraji and her company becauseshe has this production company
where she produces film and TVprojects as well.
She had not ventured intotheater and then, over the
(17:48):
course of the pandemic, shedecided to start her hair care
line and we all came to learnthat, prior to her having
success as an actress, sheactually was going to be a
cosmetologist and go and do hair, and it just happened that her
acting career took off.
So she always was going to getback to doing hair and hair care
(18:11):
products and all of that.
So she started her hair careline.
So when the opportunity came up,when we were looking for other
producers to come on board forJaja's, whitney was like well,
what about Taraji?
She has this hair care line.
She's really passionate aboutit.
I think she really loves yourwork and I think if we send her
the play, maybe she'll at leastshe can say no, but potentially
(18:35):
she might be interested incoming on board, and this being
her first venture into producingfor theater, and so we sent her
the play.
I feel like that guest cameback so fast.
I don't, I'm trying to.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Miraculously fast.
It was so great.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, it was miraculously fast and she was
really kind to just kind of jumpon board and then, because of
the hair care line as well, itjust felt like a really easy yes
.
So that's how she got involved.
It was kind of like organic ina weird way, but that speaks
(19:10):
volumes to I feel like we triedto create it.
Go ahead, I'm sorry, whitney.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
But that's so.
They felt like we had a lot ofoh, there's a delay on my end.
I apologize.
Go ahead, whitney, go ahead.
I was saying we had a lot ofdreams and thankfully the bulk
of them came true and that'slike a testament to Jocelyn's
writing.
It was such a powerful callingcard and I just thought to
(19:39):
myself, like Taraji, think ofhow many iconic roles she has
had.
She's such a beacon in thecommunity for fabulosity, for
excellent acting, and it justfelt like the right fit.
So we were very lucky to be inpartnership with her and so many
other wonderful black femalebusiness owners and artists.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I like that.
But let me tell you also how Iknew that this was going to be a
spectacular play, because itisn't led by Taraji P Henson is
the producer.
It is just Jajah's African hairbreeding.
Oftentimes people want to tiein the celebrity factor to
(20:20):
generate the audience.
I'm glad that you just led withthe work, but that was no small
feat.
Every time I go to Broadway andI've been going to Broadway
play since I was in elementaryschool I don't see enough plays
about us and for us.
Talk about that.
Talk about having a play aroundblack hair for people of color
(20:44):
on Broadway.
Yeah, I mean already you'vesaid so many things that would
like put an X all over it formost producers and most theater
companies who are looking tohave a quote unquote successful
play in their Broadway house.
What I would like to like bigup is both me and Whitney's like
(21:09):
producer acumen.
We have a real understanding ofthis business, as not just like
playwright and director, we'reboth performers as well.
We have an understanding of howto cultivate an audience.
We have an understanding ofkind of the old things that they
(21:30):
have done.
Typically to market a show theyjust send out like an email
blast.
They send out like a flyer inthe mail or something like that.
Perhaps they might be like aone interview here or there in a
publication that not manypeople read or at least not many
of our audience members, thepeople that we would want to
come see our shows read and thenthey kind of just like let it
(21:52):
go.
We were really from jump likeearly on we're very forceful is
not quite the word but we werepretty adamant that like we had
to do things differently withthis show.
This is a different kind ofshow and we knew that we could
get the right audience to comesee the show if we did things in
(22:16):
a different way and did it in asmarter way.
And that was the first thingthat it started with was
actually the advertisement forit, the key art that you see,
that black woman kind of lookslike me right now, like black
woman with the like giant, youknow bun on her hair or whatever
you know, just kind of lookingup and like.
(22:36):
We went through severaldifferent iterations of what
that key art would look like.
But we're like it has to beiconic imagery.
We can't just like take apicture of the cast, slap on the
title of the play and like hopethat people will recognize
someone in the cast.
They may not, so we actuallyhave to sell what the play is
about.
In that case, make an iconicimagery, you know, image that
(22:56):
people would be apart, people'sinterests, and then, you know,
of course, bringing on the rightkind of producers who would
earmark enough money for goodadvertisements.
That thing is like all thatgirl with the bun is all over
the subway, yes, all over socialmedia.
There's radio ads as a TVcommercial going.
(23:18):
We just, we just spread thewealth in terms of like where we
were reaching and, of course,really targeting non-traditional
theater audiences, like theywould classify you somebody
who's not like a normal theatergoer, right, just because of
like your age, demographic andthat you're a black woman.
(23:39):
We were like you're exactly whowe want to come and see this
show and all of that, I think,was really helpful.
You know it's a testament tothe theater, to MTC, that they
also said yes to so many of ourideas as well.
It wasn't like they werecombative to it.
They recognized what we knew,what we were educated in in
(24:00):
terms of audience cultivationand development, and really came
on board with many of our ideas, got it Well, the imagery
definitely worked, becausethat's what drew me in was the
woman on the cover with the hair, and I said, oh my God, this is
not great for me and I don'toften frequent Broadway plays
because it's not a message forme.
(24:23):
I want to attend events, now mydaughter's 28, where we can have
a conversation after we watchthe edutainment.
That's important for me and myculture.
So, once again, thank you forcreating a cross-generational
conversation full of imagery.
But what I did capture when wewent to go see the play was some
(24:44):
common themes.
So these are the themes that Icaught Undocumented immigrants,
loving men, culturalexpectations, black hair and
black breeding salons andpolitics.
So let's just talk about thecultural expectations first.
Okay, because I work ineducation in an area that has a
(25:07):
high African population and Ihear high school students always
telling me oh, I can't pursuethat career because my African
mother says my African motherand father says that's not a
real job.
So in the play, marie's motherwell, marie wanted to be a
(25:29):
writer, right, but the motherwants her to be a doctor.
Yes, why did you decide toexplore cultural expectations?
Because once again, these areso taboo conversations in
African, in African Americanhouseholds, like this podcasting
(25:50):
radio space that I do as a 51year old woman, my parents will
still say that ain't a real job.
Talk about that.
The cultural expectations thatyou decided to include in your
play.
Well, I think that.
Well, first of all, I'm firstgeneration Ghani and both my
parents are from Ghana, in WestAfrica, and so, like that was an
expectation that I had as well.
(26:12):
Like I was expected to kind ofbe a doctor, lawyer, school
teacher, engineer or agovernment official or something
like that, like going topolitics or whatever.
Those were kind of the onlyjobs that my parents saw as
credible work and jobs thatsustain you financially.
(26:33):
And there's like a big thingwhen a lot of immigrants,
especially I'll speak for myselfblack immigrants, come to this
country there in search of anAmerican dream and that comes.
That's to me, I think,synonymous with financial
stability.
If you're doing anything thatdoesn't come with that automatic
financial stability.
(26:53):
Like art, like writing.
In the play, our character, jha, jha's daughter Marie, she
wants to be a writer, she wantsto write romance novels and it's
like really sweet and fun.
But in what world does hermother deem that as work that
will sustain her financially?
(27:13):
And that's kind of the divide.
Yeah, I mean, as you said,you're in your 50s now, like
you're doing really beautifulwork.
That is for the culture, andsometimes that doesn't
necessarily mean that it's goingto be financially stable it can
, but it doesn't mean it willand there's a kind of fight
(27:38):
between cultures.
I think of coming and having aparticular dream and that dream
becoming a reality and being afirst generation kid who
actually dreams a big dream andwants and actually goes after
that thing wholeheartedly, andthat's just not a luxury or
(28:04):
privilege that I think manyBlack immigrants who come here
feel like they have.
So I mean, god only knows howmany lost artists we have in all
of these incredible women, andI think that that's part of why
I'm exploring that in some ofthe braiders' stories is because
(28:25):
I don't know, I think there's aworld.
My mom would have been the mostincredible entertainment
manager, like she would havegiven Chris Jenner and Matthew
Know like a run for the moneyI'd be beyond so many Gosh.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Now I've actually known that that was something
where she could put that kind oflike tough, no holds barred
business acumen that she has.
If she could apply that tobeing an entertainment manager
or an entertainment lawyer likeshe, would have been incredible.
But she doesn't ever thoughtthat that was a dream she could
have, or even a financiallystable job.
(29:05):
So I don't know, whitney, youhave a lot to add to this.
You as well, whitney, becauseyou are the place director and
that is also a non-traditionaljob.
And when I asked you both thisquestion, speaking to your
non-traditional jobs, it'sbecause there's some small girl
watching thinking that she can'tpursue a career as a playwright
(29:26):
or director.
So, whitney, what about whenyou decided to become a director
?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Well, OK, first of all, I'm really happy to ask
this and just second of all,again just blowing Jocelyn up
more.
It's why she's so amazing,because she's always writing
about real things that speak tous now.
But I think it's important formy homegirls and homeboys and
home people out there that mightbe dreaming of a quote, unquote
, non-traditional job for you toknow that both Jocelyn and I I
(29:55):
feel Jocelyn, if I may go so faris like we both got to where we
are because people said no,like we started out as
performers and singers and thisand that and trying to do the
thing until we were just like.
You know what we need to makeour own stories.
You know what I mean, becauseplaying the token friend or
random kind of violent characteror over-sexualized character
(30:19):
you know, mammy Jezebel, allthose tropes kind of wore off
very quickly and so it wasthrough a series of kind of
doors closing that I was like Ihave to direct, and I think
that's an important message,because I do have an undergrad
degree in political science andthen I got my master's in the
arts and it's like sometimes forus we have to go through.
(30:42):
It's not to sound cliche, butit's the path you have to chart
out your own path sometimes, andsometimes those big nose or the
big I remember, those big rollsI never got and those big doors
closing are the best thing thatwill ever happen to you.
Sometimes that person tellingyou actually I don't think you
can do this or I don't havefaith in you, it's the best
(31:02):
thing that can happen to youBecause you'll then find a way
to make it happen for yourself.
So I think that that's kind ofadvice is you just got to keep
going and make it happen, youknow.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yes, and there will be challenges, there will be
obstacles, but for us, we dohave to persist through this
conversation of staying true toourselves.
There was another nuanced themethat I noticed in Jaja's
African-herb rating politics,and that's something that people
tend to shy away from.
So the play is set during, Ibelieve, the Trump era.
(31:36):
Am I correct, or was itpost-Trump?
Yeah, 2019, so toward Vienna.
The Trump era yeah, so Iremember when I believe it was
Marie came on stage finally,like she was a character and we
knew her even before sheappeared on stage, but she said
something so prolific.
She said when should we go backto Africa?
(31:57):
Is it when, after we finishtaking care of your kids?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Watching your kids.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
That's when Jaja comes on stage.
The role of Jaja yeah, that wasso powerful and I looked around
like, oh my gosh, is anybody?
Is the white folks upset up inhere?
Who?
Are you scared to touch such asensitive topic, talking about
Trump and how this world viewsAfrican immigrants, only to be
(32:27):
hair braiders and caretakers?
Were you scared?
I was not scared.
I was not scared at all.
I mean, even though the play ispre-COVID and in the midst of
the Trump era, I think we've allbeen through a lot.
Any single audience member whois walking into that space can
(32:48):
acknowledge that whatever hashappened to them their lives can
understand that they'remarkedly drowned byELLEK from
that summer in 2019 to this fall, when they're sitting in that
Broadway theater.
A lot has happened and I thinkthey've all overcome a lot, so
including fear.
So I was not scared at all andI feel like there's a lot of
(33:09):
power in saying somethingwithout saying something.
So, like sure, we're talkingabout.
She's really directlyaddressing Trump and the people
who had a lot to say aboutimmigration.
However, there's no namesmentioned.
There's no whatever.
So it's like you can interpretit however you would like, but
it was important to share thatbecause I think that,
(33:31):
particularly during hispresidency and his
administration, there was onlyone face of immigration that
they were kind of peddling out,and for all of the hair braiding
ladies that I went to go seeduring that time, I had actually
been working in and out of LosAngeles at one point, so I was
(33:52):
getting my hair braided back inLA and New York wherever All of
them were really in deep fearabout what these policies were
perpetuating and what kind ofhatred it was inviting into
their world, and I think theywere the invisible immigrants in
a lot of ways that peopleweren't really paying attention
(34:14):
to and who were also beingequally as affected by all of
these policies as well.
So there was no fear in that.
I think we have to really, ifthere's, if anything, I would
like for people who come to seethe play, who maybe haven't
thought about immigration in anuanced way, that they leave
(34:36):
having had an education on that,and perhaps that will even
influence them right down tolike who they're voting for in
our next election.
It's important to be able tohumanize these people and these
stories, because the moment youdon't, they just become news
articles, they just becomethings you swipe by on social
(34:56):
media and they don't becomefully formed.
360 human beings.
And that's the power, sometimes, of art is that we can like,
really humanize something thatfeels like a news item that can
influence people all the waydown to the voting booth.
Got it?
So I move this directly for you, whitney.
So Jocelyn just mentioned, youknow, just bringing things to
(35:20):
life, and I just want to ask youspecifically once again when
you received the script, how didyou bring to life the word so
that we could see the story,even if we didn't want to hear
the word?
What was your thought processbehind that?
Because you did an amazing,amazing talk about that.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Well, you know it's funny.
I always I have always have abone to pick when I go see
theater and I'm like, wow,nothing in here sounds like real
human beings.
And so I guess, like wheneverI'm reading a text, I'm like how
can this sound as human aspossible at the speed of thought
, lived in, like it's happeningjust now for the first time?
(36:04):
And I think number one, jocelyn, is a master on the page.
It's like there's not a singleperiod or colon or comma out of
place and she's truly writingtext for performance, which is a
very specific thing.
Not all plays actually playthat well.
(36:24):
Some read better, some playbetter, and Jocelyn's do both
actually.
So I found like when I wastrying to make it come to life,
if I just really worked withwhat she gave me, then it
started to go, and I think a lotof this is casting to our
ensemble of players areincredible, and Jocelyn and I
(36:47):
went through an incrediblecasting process.
We watched so many tapes.
We we workshopped the playtwice and it's like we really
were looking for each woman tofeel like an iconically
different person.
I wanted you to have a fullsnapshot of who this woman was,
where she was coming fromsocioeconomically where she was
(37:08):
at in terms of culturalspecificity and like where she
was coming from in thecontinental diaspora, and so
that that was like a big processto cast both the braiders, the
immigrant women and the threeactors who play the four actors
who play the Americans you know,because each kind of paragraph
snapshot she gives you is veryspecific.
(37:30):
So like how do you land thatsome characters only have one
scene to be a whole person in awhole world?
So I think shout out to ourcast and our casting process was
a big part of the directingvision, I think.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Wow, well, you both did the damn thing.
I don't have anything else tosay about that.
But not only just the characterselection.
Like I said, the hairstyleswere characters in itself.
Like I literally watched onecharacter to say let me see how
long it's going to take for themto braid that hair, like I know
how long it took in the salon,I was like, oh my gosh, they did
(38:05):
an amazing job.
So what was the feedback from,let's say, the African community
and also the black community?
What was the feedback?
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Worst thing, that has been really positive.
I mean, yeah, gargoyle with me,we're still getting it.
We've been extended.
We've been extended, which is awonderful blessing.
And I will say, you know, Ilove sneaking in the theater and
being in the back, because Ihaven't seen that many of us in
a theater in a long time, andI'm not talking about
(38:40):
African-American people in theentertainment business.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I overhear people brothers bringing their girls on
dates, mechanics, sisters whodo hear themselves.
So I haven't been in a kind ofroom in a theater in a long time
that drew so many people, sothat to me feels like positive
feedback.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah, yeah, let me tell you something as I sat in
the theater with my daughter.
When we first got there itwasn't full and I was nervous
and I said, oh my gosh, I needpeople to show up.
But by the time those curtainslifted, there was not a single
empty chair in the theater, andfor that alone that was a
(39:19):
successful moment for me, and Ieven asked myself.
I said, I wonder if they comebehind the stage and they kind
of peek out to get theaudience's reaction.
So what was, let's say, themost entertaining audience
reaction that you've ever heardor seen?
Oh god, we've had many.
I think every show hasdifferent reactions that are
(39:42):
really funny.
I mean, a lot of people reactto the stage as if they're also
in the shop, and so what Ireally love is that I wanted the
whole theater to feel like theywere either a customer in the
shop or a fly on the wall, likethey felt like they were part of
the shop, and I feel like thathas also invited that element of
(40:05):
audience interaction too.
There's so many people who youknow when there's like a moment
with like a character who haslike a pretty tempestuous
relationship with her husband,and so when he comes into the
shop, you could feel the womenin the audience are like girl,
just get rid of him.
Yes, it's kind of like, that'skind of fun Certainly the magic
(40:31):
of the hair, I think, whenpeople get their hair braided
like.
There's one girl who's reallydead set about looking like
Beyonce when she comes into theshop and so when the reveal of
when her braids are done, peopleare really with her, like
they're clapping and cheeringwith her.
It's like like all of thatstuff is really, really exciting
(40:51):
.
It's for the culture, for theDiaspora culture.
There was a girl yesterday whotagged me on Instagram, who came
to the show for a second timeand the second time she brought
her hair braiding lady with her.
I just thought that was likethe most incredible thing.
(41:12):
And you saw the like hairbraiding lady like dancing, like
she was so thrilled to seeherself represented on a
Broadway stage and I yeah, itjust moved me to tears.
Yeah, well, let me tell you, Iwas seated by a couple who were
on a date and I asked themafterwards I said what made you
come on a date here?
(41:32):
And she said I need him tounderstand what I go through
every time I go to the salon andI'm gone all day.
Or I come back with theseamazing stories, or I come back
with some products that I boughtin the salon because somebody
came for the door.
So it is a play for everyeveryone.
(41:54):
So, jocelyn, what's next for you?
Oh, what is it?
What's next?
What is it next?
I don't know, I'm just going tograb the limit right now.
I'm truly thrilled to just getthis play up and off and that
the response has been reallyexciting.
I'm also a member of theWriters Guild and SAG, so my one
(42:20):
union is now longer on strikeand my other union is still on
strike.
So I'm kind of in a mid spacehere.
But right now it's all aboutJaja's.
It's all about continuing topush the play forward, get as
many audiences as we can, evenas many people have come already
(42:41):
.
I want to double that, triplethat.
How can we get any and everyonein there while we still are
running and then explore theworld some more?
There's many people who havecome to me just fully requesting
that I make it a TV show, as ifI have that power of myself
alone to do it.
So I'll think about that.
(43:03):
And then family.
Honestly, if I'm being real,sonia.
I'm spending time with myfamily.
I have a newborn that I had,thank you, just before we
started this rehearsal process.
So also just connecting with mylittle baby and doing all the
(43:24):
things and kind of collectingall the memories for when he can
figure it out and understandseven where his nose is that I
can explain to him all thethings I was doing while he was
like a little infant.
So that's amazing.
What about you, whitney?
What's next?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
I mean, similarly to Jocelyn, I just feel like this
play is so special and I just,you know, I think everyone in
the world needs to see it intheir own way, and I don't know,
I'm just I'm very passionateabout getting the word out there
.
I mean, you know, remember wewere walking down the street and
I came out, was like hello,ma'am, your brain is so good,
(44:07):
I'm directing this beautifulwoman's play.
You know, I literally go up topeople on the street begging
them to come see our play, whichhas embarrassed Jocelyn many
times.
But I'm just excited to see, Ican't help myself.
I haven't felt this way about aplay in a long time.
So I'm just trying to stickwith it and I'm excited to see
where it goes because, you know,once again, jocelyn is, she's
(44:30):
one of the best that we have andI think everybody needs to come
and be in the shop with us.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yes.
Well, just like you, whitney,no matter who I come across, I
am incorporating that into myconversation.
You have to go see Jaja'sAfrican hair braiding.
Like I'm saying this about 50times per day because that's how
much I believe in this play youtwo.
Look about.
I know you're younger than me.
You're like in your 30s.
(44:56):
Yes, yes, I just I just turned40.
I love it because you know,like I said, I'm 51 years old
and I'm looking not only lookingin front of me, but looking at
who's coming up next and I justwant to make sure that there are
enough responsibleconversations about us, about
(45:20):
our nuanced conversations thatreally need to be unpacked.
I'm glad that you both had theaudacity to bring Jaja's African
hair braiding to the audiencebecause, like I said, this is a
conversation that we don'tdiscuss.
This is a conversation about 4Chair.
That is a character of its own.
(45:41):
So, thank you two ladies forbeing socially and civically
responsible and for creatingcontent for us and by us.
I really appreciate you two.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Thank you, Sonia.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
No, let me tell you something.
After I met you two randomly onthe street, I told my daughter
I said look at God, you looklike you don't know how much of
a blessing it was to meet youbefore the play I was supporting
anyway.
So to run into you randomly onthe street, it was nothing but
(46:16):
God's blessing.
So continue to be blessed, bothof you, thank you.
Thank you, Sonia.
Thank you for being such asupporter of the show.
It really that really meant alot, like I was actually
surprised when Whitney was likegoing to give you the flyover.
Oh Lord, I'm like what is this?
(46:38):
And the fact that it was it wasa powerful moment for me when
you said I'm already on my waythere now with my daughter.
It just I couldn't even havefathomed something like that
growing up.
So it was magical for us too.
So thank you, no problem, andthe marketing will continue.
(46:59):
I just took her to.
I was covering media forCultureCon and Jaja's African
hair braiding was everywhere andI said y'all better go and see
this play.
So I wouldn't even be surprisedif the play was extended and I
wouldn't be surprised when youlaunch your next projects,
because it is going to have asmuch and even more success as
(47:23):
Jaja's African hair braiding.
No matter where you both land,your steps have already been
ordered and the sky is the limitbeyond the sky.
So, like I said, continuedblessings and thank you so much
for joining Sonia.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
So that's that.
This is the end of theconversation.
Continue.
Blessings, you too.
I'm just going to end this sothat I can continue on with the
show.
Take care, okay, thank you, bye, bye-bye.
There you have it.
So we had.
We had Jocelyn Bio and we hadWhitney White.
(47:59):
So Jocelyn is Jaja's Africanhair braiding playwright and
Whitney White is the director.
It's not just about puttingwords on a piece of paper,
because how will it translateonto the stage, onto the big
screen?
This play translated very, verywell on stage, when I tell you,
(48:23):
even before the curtains lifted, the curtains were images of
African or black women indifferent hair styles cornrows,
twists, box braids and I love to, I loved how we were
highlighted, showcased on thishuge, huge stage.
(48:47):
If you are a woman of color Idon't know if you aren't having
nuanced conversations about yourhair Jaja's got to be slipped
right with the edge control.
You want to make sure that yourwave pattern is patterning
Child.
Now even the FDA is about toban all chemical perms which a
(49:13):
lot of women of color use, butit has been so toxic on our hair
for years and now they areunderstanding that it has been
toxic on our hair and wanting toban it, but what about all
those women who are affected byit?
When I first started podcastingand I told you at the onset of
this show, I started podcastingwhen podcasting was considered
(49:36):
taboo.
It wasn't a real thing.
And I remember I hired acelebrity publicist and she
really told me, like, don't putyour hair in braids, don't wear
your natural hair.
And it got to a point when Ijust said, girl, you fine, you
no longer work yet.
So I took her to the board roomand I said no way.
(49:58):
And I started to representmyself how I felt I wanted to
represent myself.
So I'm hoping that for all ofyou who has listened to and
watched this conversation withJocelyn BO and Whitney White,
that you take a lot away fromthis conversation about standing
(50:19):
in your truth, being unafraidto have those uncomfortable
conversations, and also aboutexploring those nontraditional
jobs, especially for thisyounger generation.
You go to school and everyoneis just like go to college,
college, college, college,college.
Become a doctor, become alawyer.
And I'm not saying that no tocollege, because you know I have
(50:41):
a college degree, but I do knowthat college is in mint for
every single one and we need tostart exposing a lot more
creative careers to theconversation.
As a creative, you can have alucrative life being a creative.
So now that this digital spaceis kind of strengthening, and
(51:03):
especially with podcasting andthis whole AI social media,
there are a lot of jobs that areopening up.
So you would be crazy not tojump on it.
Like I said, I jumped onpodcasting.
It's been over 10 years, it'sbeen like maybe 12 or 13 years.
(51:24):
So please, please, please, get aticket to go purchase Jaja's
African Hair Breeding.
I'm telling you it is a playthat will have you having
conversations with your friends,your boyfriends, your lover,
your cousin, your auntie, youruncles.
It is a conversation for theyoung, the middle aged, the more
(51:50):
seasoned individuals, becausewho is not a black woman, a
woman of color, who doesn't haveconversation about her hair?
I wait, whoo.
Every single woman of color ishaving some conversation at some
point in time about her hair.
There was a huge episode that Idid in celebration of
(52:12):
Juneteenth and I had the authorof Black Hair, tamika I believe
her name is Wellington go backto that episode and we really
unpacked the nuancedconversations about black hair.
So I'm so happy that there areso many women of color deciding
to address this nuancedconversation of black hair,
(52:33):
because if you leave it to theonline vitriol, jaja, we are
nappy headed and breaking thefist comb.
Let the online people tell youthis.
So, once again, please go checkout Jaja's African Hair Braiding
and, while you're at it, makesure that you hit the like
button.
(52:53):
If you're watching this onYouTube, sanya and her streams
across every major streamingplatform.
Not only like and hit thenotification button, make sure
that you follow, make sure thatyou subscribe.
You can also follow me onsocial media at Sanya on Air,
that's on Instagram, that's onTicket Attack, that's on my
(53:14):
business Facebook page, that'son LinkedIn, it's on Thread,
it's on Twitter, you name it.
Sanya on Air is there?
So what a way to have a 100thepisode.
We did it.
So I just want to dedicate theclosing of the show to my mother
(53:35):
, deborah Hudson-Pain.
May you Rest in Power.
Well, that's all, folks.
Thank you so much for tuning into another amazing edition of
Sanya on Air.
Smooch yourself, take care.
This is not an episode.
When I was coming out, we hadto go outside the city.
We had to go to the familywater town.
We downed doors.
This was the first time Billhad ever gone on this family, he
said.
His girlfriend told him this isnot a family and out of my
(00:22):
mouth I said F.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
you Fans are asking for a positive women and a
family and business life.
That's what we're going to show, and we're going to show you
how she's born when I wasspeaking my real story.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
this is the day that I am.
I filled myself up with all thedreams, without a man's help,
without a basketball player.
This is what's taking me to thePatriot for a box White
cisgendered girls have definedfor us should be how we define
ourselves.
That's what they were saying onthe street.
I didn't say it.
(00:55):
That's what they were saying onthe street.
It's the bad news and thebulletin.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
You are now tuned into anotheramazing edition of Sanya On Air.
I'm your host, sanyaHudson-Pain, and how do I start
a feature in every single show?
Well, you won't guess it thistime.
(01:15):
Today, sanya On Air iscelebrating its 100th episode.
Give it up for your girl.
Give it up for your girl.
Around the board Standingovation.
Okay, it is not easy.
Sanya On Air started whenpodcasting was considered taboo.
It was considered not a realjob, not a career exploration.
(01:39):
But I said you know what I seesomething about to happen in
this podcasting space and Ijumped right on it, and this is
why I am able to bring you allnew celebrity interviews,
unpacking their pivotal momentsand their milestones, each and
every single week.
So, before we go any further,what do I always ask you to do?
I need you to subscribe,subscribe, subscribe.
(02:01):
This social media space is socrazy.
There's an algorithm and youreally lead the algorithm.
Social media pays attention towhat you're watching, what
you're liking and what you arereposting and who you're
following.
So if you are following, ifyou're liking, if you're
(02:22):
reposting all Sanya On Aircontent, guess what More similar
Sanya On Air content is drivendirectly your way.
But once again, black girl inmedia.
We do not see enough blackwomen in media, especially black
women of my age.
We don't see that too often Inthis whole digital space, even
(02:43):
in the world of television, film, music, beauty, fashion.
It is all led by 20-somethingyear olds, 30-something year old
.
They're starting to look at youlike you might want to go and
apply for AARP.
So when you have seasoned womensuch as myself really just
(03:04):
trying to not bringsalaciousness but bring
intelligent, educational,entertaining content, we need
you to keep following.
So let me tell you abouttoday's guests, because you've
already given it up for yourgirl for 100 episodes and I
appreciate you so much.
(03:25):
So, coming up on today's SanyaOn Air, I'm so excited, so so
excited.
Two females If you have not yetheard or even seen the Broadway
play Jaja's African HairBraiding, make sure you do so.
Immediately following thisconversation, I have none other
(03:48):
than Jaja's African HairBraiding, the playwright Jocelyn
Bio, and I also have thedirector Whitney White.
They're going to be joining usin just a few short moments, so
just make sure that you staytuned.
So what I want to jump intoright now is let's just talk
about a few things that's beenhappening in celebrity news,
(04:14):
most recently over the past fewmonths.
Jaja Pinkin and Will Smithcannot stay out of the news when
I tell you, I want to know whoMs Jada's PR is, who's her
publicist, because this womanstays in the news all the time
about salaciousness,salaciousness, the pettiness,
(04:36):
the drama.
Well, this time, honey, youknow, because Will Smith and
Smacked another brother andSmacked Chris Rock.
That happened, but they arestill trending in the news
because Jada Pinkett Smith hasrecently announced that she and
Will Smith have been separatedsince 2016.
(04:57):
I love a relationship like that.
I don't know if this is just.
You know how seasoned womenshould be living their intimate
relationships.
Don't nobody know nothing, buty'all do.
I love it.
I love when you just don't knowanything except what they want
you to think so anyway.
So she said that she and WillSmith have been separated since
(05:20):
2016.
Sign me up, I'll take two.
I want a man who I don't claimI don't love, but he will smack
the out of anybody who talksabout me in a disparaging way.
Give me two of those, give me,matter of fact, give me three,
because I need one on theweekends too.
(05:40):
What is going on in the world ofcelebrity news?
So let me tell you.
So, ms Jada Pinkett Smith.
She has a new book coming out.
So this is why.
This is why she is trending.
Ain't nobody even talking aboutthat book?
No one even knows the name ofsaid book.
It could be called your mama.
Nobody would know the name ofthis book because she is just
(06:05):
talking about solaceousness,because she knows that you all
will be clicking and repostingand following the nonsense.
I don't understand it.
I am just waiting to see how isshe going to be in the news
next week?
Because not only she talkingabout how she and Will Smith
have been divorced since 2016.
(06:25):
Shea, tupac, tupac, he might aswell be alive.
He might as well be alivebecause the way Jada Pinkett
Smith always has his namerolling across her lips and
(06:47):
tongue, you would think thatthey just got here last night
and the loving was just so goodthat she woke up in the morning
and said let me tell you allabout it.
She talks about that man somuch, so now she is also saying
that they were never involvedromantically.
But that's not what she wassaying.
For decades and centuries she'snever said that.
(07:09):
She made it seem as if she wasTupac's first and only love, the
one that got away.
Well, now she's saying theywere never romantically involved
, they were only friends, and ifthey had gotten married, that
he probably would have divorcedher the next day.
I just can't keep up.
But whoever her publicist is,if you are looking for a new
(07:30):
client, how about your girl?
I am right here, okay.
So another thing that happenedin celebrity news.
So you know Shannon Sharp.
He has a very, very popularpodcast.
So recently he had Chad OchoSinko, I believe that's his name
, on his podcast and they weregoing back and forth.
(07:50):
So Shannon Sharp was sayingthat a woman can't pass gas or
do number two, boo boo, that shecan't do that in front of him
because he would just let her go.
So I really had to think aboutthat, like, and even my daughter
asked me this question Mom,have you ever passed gas or did
(08:12):
number two in front of a man?
And I'm embarrassed to say allof the above.
All of the above.
Now, it wasn't on purpose, butit was after a very intimate
tonight.
Just picture this.
Okay, it was late at night andthe stars were just as twinkling
, and we came in from dinner andI was spending night.
(08:34):
Now, mind you, I've had dinner,champagne, a few other
cocktails, and we got intimateand my stomach said no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, no.
I'm not going to hit that highnote.
But my stomach said no, andthere was no way that I was
going to sleep overnight andpossibly fall asleep, and then,
(08:55):
you know, I'm just singing awhole other song in my sleep and
waking up, and he looking at melike so we didn't want to do
that, so I said you know what?
I have to use your bathroom andI need a candle.
Now, mind you, I did this when Iwas in my 40s, you know,
(09:17):
because the older you get, themore unabashed you are, the more
unfiltered you become.
But I had to, I absolutely hadto.
I think I understood it, though, and I'm not with him, and he's
still ringing my phone.
Okay, so that tells yousomething, but let me, I would
not purposely like pass gas infront of a guy.
(09:39):
I just would not.
I think that because I'm a lady.
I'm a lady and I just think itis so un-lady like to just be
like yeah, so you want to golike who was doing that?
A woman with no home training,that's who.
So, ladies, do not pass gas ordo number two in front of a man.
(10:01):
Now, exception to the rule.
Now, if I'm with you for yearsand we know each other, then we
know each other.
Okay, I'm passing gas, I'm usinga bathroom, number two and it's
going to be okay.
So you know, it's a shame thatyou have to put you know the
representative when you'redating until he gets to know you
(10:23):
.
That's when that bonnet comeson.
You passing gas, you doingnumber two.
So, ladies, don't pass gas ordo number two in front of your
man.
Wait a little bit until youknow you get that ring, or until
you know he ain't goinganywhere, because doing those
(10:44):
things it doesn't define who youare, but in the beginning it
does.
He's looking at you like you abad she-chow, so don't do it,
okay.
So that is all that I have fortrending celebrity news.
So why don't we do this?
We're going to take a commercialbreak and we'll be right back
with the playwright, jocelyn Bioand the director, whitney White
(11:08):
, of Broadway's all new play,jaja's African Hair Brady.
Make sure you subscribe andwe'll be right back.
We're talking about completingthe Chinas.
You're crying inside.
You're crying inside Chai.
(11:36):
You're crying inside.
On the outside, you like it?
It's too much.
Don't turn the camera off.
Okay?
So, just like I promised you, wehave two amazing guests, and
what these guests don't know isthat this is Sonia Onair's 100th
(11:59):
episode.
So, without any further ado, Ihave the playwright and the
director of Zha Zha's AfricanHair Braiding, jocelyn Biyo and
Whitney White.
How are you two young ladies?
We're good.
Thank you for calling us youngladies.
We're always going to be youngladies.
I don't care how old we are.
We are young ladies.
So let's just get right on intoit.
(12:24):
Like I said, this is SoniaOnair's 100th episode and having
you two on was so intentional.
I ran into I believe it wasWhitney I'm not sure if it was
you two, jocelyn when I was onmy way to the theater.
Yes, I think it was both of us.
We were coming from gettingdinner and we were on our way to
the theater and you had likesome beautiful braids, right,
(12:45):
whitney?
I can't remember now.
Yeah, they'll be back next week, but let me just tell you about
the experience.
I was having a conversation withmy daughter, who was 28, about
the importance of going to seethis play because it is for us
and by us, so justintergenerational.
(13:06):
So my first question is for you, jocelyn why write Jaja's
African Hair Braiding?
Why, well, I always writestories that center black women,
so I knew I was always going toany play I write is going to be
about that.
But I really wanted to write alove letter to my hair braiding
(13:28):
ladies.
I wanted to write a love letterto Harlem, who I feel like.
These ladies are the heart ofHarlem.
You can't walk up and down 125thStreet without running into a
hair braiding shop or like anAfrican hair braiding lady
trying to like so let's see youto get braids.
You have braids in your ownhead and they would still ask if
you are braids.
And they're lifesavers, they'reaunties, they're mothers,
(13:53):
they're therapists.
They've been everything to meat any single moment in my life,
and I grew up in New York anduptown in Washington Heights,
but I went to the hair braidingsalons in Harlem and it kind of
dawned on me some years ago.
I was like this is like a ripeplace to have a play.
I didn't know what the playwould be about.
(14:14):
I didn't know you know wherethe story would go, but I knew I
wanted to center them, and sorarely do we have opportunities
like that to write stories thatcenter us in that kind of way.
And I certainly did notanticipate that Broadway would
come calling when the play wasdone and I was ready to share it
(14:39):
.
I did not think that anopportunity to do it on Broadway
would happen.
So when it did, it just feltlike.
It just felt like that wasGod's promise on the play and I
was really happy that I didn'tfall back on that, and we are
happy that you didn't fall backon that either.
(15:00):
And, as you mentioned, it is alove letter.
Let me tell you my hair is awhole other person.
She has its own social securitynumber, birth certificate,
everything, and I too get myhair braided on 125th Street.
So this was so new and I knowwhen you talk about black hair
it is such a nuancedconversation that is so
(15:20):
triggering and traumatizing forso many women of color.
So my next question is for you,whitney.
So Jocelyn wrote the play, butyou kind of orchestrated the
rhythm of the play.
So when you were handed thescript, how did you decide to
bring the imagery to life?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Well, similarly to Jocelyn, I've also spent the
bulk of my young adult childhood, young adult and adult life in
a braiding salon.
It was in Chicago, but when Iread it I immediately saw things
I recognized and women I knewand I knew that the play needed
(16:02):
to feel real.
It's a real story about realpeople and therefore the
initiative of it on stage had tohave a sense of realism to it.
And also I had been a fan ofJocelyn's work and I've seen her
plays and I think I had been tothe school of Jocelyn BO a
little bit and was like, okay, Ican get in here on this rhythm,
but you know, when you're inthe salon things move at a mile
(16:22):
a minute.
Those women don't wait for you.
You might be in there all daybut you'll see a whole lifetime
go by Lovers, peddlers, friends,fights, squabbles and money
made.
So I knew I just wanted to putsomething on stage that
reflected the reality that Iknew to be true, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yes, and even before the stage curtains went up,
there was a story within itselfwith the images of the corn
rolls, the twists, and I lookedat my door and I said, okay, we
had that hair.
It's just had a conversationbefore the play even started.
So thank you to the both of youfor starting a conversation
(17:04):
even before the words of theplay even began.
So the next question is for you, jocelyn.
I know that Taraji P Henson isa producer for Jaja's African
Hair Braiding.
How did that come about?
Well, that's really Whitney,actually.
Well, I'll say a couple ofthings happened.
(17:28):
Whitney and I separately workedwith Taraji's production company
on different projects over thecourse of the last couple of
years.
We both had separatelydeveloped a relationship with
Taraji and her company becauseshe has this production company
where she produces film and TVprojects as well.
She had not ventured intotheater and then, over the
(17:48):
course of the pandemic, shedecided to start her hair care
line and we all came to learnthat, prior to her having
success as an actress, sheactually was going to be a
cosmetologist and go and do hair, and it just happened that her
acting career took off.
So she always was going to getback to doing hair and hair care
(18:11):
products and all of that.
So she started her hair careline.
So when the opportunity came up,when we were looking for other
producers to come on board forJaja's, whitney was like well,
what about Taraji?
She has this hair care line.
She's really passionate aboutit.
I think she really loves yourwork and I think if we send her
the play, maybe she'll at leastshe can say no, but potentially
(18:35):
she might be interested incoming on board, and this being
her first venture into producingfor theater, and so we sent her
the play.
I feel like that guest cameback so fast.
I don't, I'm trying to.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Miraculously fast.
It was so great.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, it was miraculously fast and she was
really kind to just kind of jumpon board and then, because of
the hair care line as well, itjust felt like a really easy yes
.
So that's how she got involved.
It was kind of like organic ina weird way, but that speaks
(19:10):
volumes to I feel like we triedto create it.
Go ahead, I'm sorry, whitney.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
But that's so.
They felt like we had a lot ofoh, there's a delay on my end.
I apologize.
Go ahead, whitney, go ahead.
I was saying we had a lot ofdreams and thankfully the bulk
of them came true and that'slike a testament to Jocelyn's
writing.
It was such a powerful callingcard and I just thought to
(19:39):
myself, like Taraji, think ofhow many iconic roles she has
had.
She's such a beacon in thecommunity for fabulosity, for
excellent acting, and it justfelt like the right fit.
So we were very lucky to be inpartnership with her and so many
other wonderful black femalebusiness owners and artists.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I like that.
But let me tell you also how Iknew that this was going to be a
spectacular play, because itisn't led by Taraji P Henson is
the producer.
It is just Jajah's African hairbreeding.
Oftentimes people want to tiein the celebrity factor to
(20:20):
generate the audience.
I'm glad that you just led withthe work, but that was no small
feat.
Every time I go to Broadway andI've been going to Broadway
play since I was in elementaryschool I don't see enough plays
about us and for us.
Talk about that.
Talk about having a play aroundblack hair for people of color
(20:44):
on Broadway.
Yeah, I mean already you'vesaid so many things that would
like put an X all over it formost producers and most theater
companies who are looking tohave a quote unquote successful
play in their Broadway house.
What I would like to like bigup is both me and Whitney's like
(21:09):
producer acumen.
We have a real understanding ofthis business, as not just like
playwright and director, we'reboth performers as well.
We have an understanding of howto cultivate an audience.
We have an understanding ofkind of the old things that they
(21:30):
have done.
Typically to market a show theyjust send out like an email
blast.
They send out like a flyer inthe mail or something like that.
Perhaps they might be like aone interview here or there in a
publication that not manypeople read or at least not many
of our audience members, thepeople that we would want to
come see our shows read and thenthey kind of just like let it
(21:52):
go.
We were really from jump likeearly on we're very forceful is
not quite the word but we werepretty adamant that like we had
to do things differently withthis show.
This is a different kind ofshow and we knew that we could
get the right audience to comesee the show if we did things in
(22:16):
a different way and did it in asmarter way.
And that was the first thingthat it started with was
actually the advertisement forit, the key art that you see,
that black woman kind of lookslike me right now, like black
woman with the like giant, youknow bun on her hair or whatever
you know, just kind of lookingup and like.
(22:36):
We went through severaldifferent iterations of what
that key art would look like.
But we're like it has to beiconic imagery.
We can't just like take apicture of the cast, slap on the
title of the play and like hopethat people will recognize
someone in the cast.
They may not, so we actuallyhave to sell what the play is
about.
In that case, make an iconicimagery, you know, image that
(22:56):
people would be apart, people'sinterests, and then, you know,
of course, bringing on the rightkind of producers who would
earmark enough money for goodadvertisements.
That thing is like all thatgirl with the bun is all over
the subway, yes, all over socialmedia.
There's radio ads as a TVcommercial going.
(23:18):
We just, we just spread thewealth in terms of like where we
were reaching and, of course,really targeting non-traditional
theater audiences, like theywould classify you somebody
who's not like a normal theatergoer, right, just because of
like your age, demographic andthat you're a black woman.
(23:39):
We were like you're exactly whowe want to come and see this
show and all of that, I think,was really helpful.
You know it's a testament tothe theater, to MTC, that they
also said yes to so many of ourideas as well.
It wasn't like they werecombative to it.
They recognized what we knew,what we were educated in in
(24:00):
terms of audience cultivationand development, and really came
on board with many of our ideas, got it Well, the imagery
definitely worked, becausethat's what drew me in was the
woman on the cover with the hair, and I said, oh my God, this is
not great for me and I don'toften frequent Broadway plays
because it's not a message forme.
(24:23):
I want to attend events, now mydaughter's 28, where we can have
a conversation after we watchthe edutainment.
That's important for me and myculture.
So, once again, thank you forcreating a cross-generational
conversation full of imagery.
But what I did capture when wewent to go see the play was some
(24:44):
common themes.
So these are the themes that Icaught Undocumented immigrants,
loving men, culturalexpectations, black hair and
black breeding salons andpolitics.
So let's just talk about thecultural expectations first.
Okay, because I work ineducation in an area that has a
(25:07):
high African population and Ihear high school students always
telling me oh, I can't pursuethat career because my African
mother says my African motherand father says that's not a
real job.
So in the play, marie's motherwell, marie wanted to be a
(25:29):
writer, right, but the motherwants her to be a doctor.
Yes, why did you decide toexplore cultural expectations?
Because once again, these areso taboo conversations in
African, in African Americanhouseholds, like this podcasting
(25:50):
radio space that I do as a 51year old woman, my parents will
still say that ain't a real job.
Talk about that.
The cultural expectations thatyou decided to include in your
play.
Well, I think that.
Well, first of all, I'm firstgeneration Ghani and both my
parents are from Ghana, in WestAfrica, and so, like that was an
expectation that I had as well.
(26:12):
Like I was expected to kind ofbe a doctor, lawyer, school
teacher, engineer or agovernment official or something
like that, like going topolitics or whatever.
Those were kind of the onlyjobs that my parents saw as
credible work and jobs thatsustain you financially.
(26:33):
And there's like a big thingwhen a lot of immigrants,
especially I'll speak for myselfblack immigrants, come to this
country there in search of anAmerican dream and that comes.
That's to me, I think,synonymous with financial
stability.
If you're doing anything thatdoesn't come with that automatic
financial stability.
(26:53):
Like art, like writing.
In the play, our character, jha, jha's daughter Marie, she
wants to be a writer, she wantsto write romance novels and it's
like really sweet and fun.
But in what world does hermother deem that as work that
will sustain her financially?
(27:13):
And that's kind of the divide.
Yeah, I mean, as you said,you're in your 50s now, like
you're doing really beautifulwork.
That is for the culture, andsometimes that doesn't
necessarily mean that it's goingto be financially stable it can
, but it doesn't mean it willand there's a kind of fight
(27:38):
between cultures.
I think of coming and having aparticular dream and that dream
becoming a reality and being afirst generation kid who
actually dreams a big dream andwants and actually goes after
that thing wholeheartedly, andthat's just not a luxury or
(28:04):
privilege that I think manyBlack immigrants who come here
feel like they have.
So I mean, god only knows howmany lost artists we have in all
of these incredible women, andI think that that's part of why
I'm exploring that in some ofthe braiders' stories is because
(28:25):
I don't know, I think there's aworld.
My mom would have been the mostincredible entertainment
manager, like she would havegiven Chris Jenner and Matthew
Know like a run for the moneyI'd be beyond so many Gosh.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Now I've actually known that that was something
where she could put that kind oflike tough, no holds barred
business acumen that she has.
If she could apply that tobeing an entertainment manager
or an entertainment lawyer likeshe, would have been incredible.
But she doesn't ever thoughtthat that was a dream she could
have, or even a financiallystable job.
(29:05):
So I don't know, whitney, youhave a lot to add to this.
You as well, whitney, becauseyou are the place director and
that is also a non-traditionaljob.
And when I asked you both thisquestion, speaking to your
non-traditional jobs, it'sbecause there's some small girl
watching thinking that she can'tpursue a career as a playwright
(29:26):
or director.
So, whitney, what about whenyou decided to become a director
?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Well, OK, first of all, I'm really happy to ask
this and just second of all,again just blowing Jocelyn up
more.
It's why she's so amazing,because she's always writing
about real things that speak tous now.
But I think it's important formy homegirls and homeboys and
home people out there that mightbe dreaming of a quote, unquote
, non-traditional job for you toknow that both Jocelyn and I I
(29:55):
feel Jocelyn, if I may go so faris like we both got to where we
are because people said no,like we started out as
performers and singers and thisand that and trying to do the
thing until we were just like.
You know what we need to makeour own stories.
You know what I mean, becauseplaying the token friend or
random kind of violent characteror over-sexualized character
(30:19):
you know, mammy Jezebel, allthose tropes kind of wore off
very quickly and so it wasthrough a series of kind of
doors closing that I was like Ihave to direct, and I think
that's an important message,because I do have an undergrad
degree in political science andthen I got my master's in the
arts and it's like sometimes forus we have to go through.
(30:42):
It's not to sound cliche, butit's the path you have to chart
out your own path sometimes, andsometimes those big nose or the
big I remember, those big rollsI never got and those big doors
closing are the best thing thatwill ever happen to you.
Sometimes that person tellingyou actually I don't think you
can do this or I don't havefaith in you, it's the best
(31:02):
thing that can happen to youBecause you'll then find a way
to make it happen for yourself.
So I think that that's kind ofadvice is you just got to keep
going and make it happen, youknow.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yes, and there will be challenges, there will be
obstacles, but for us, we dohave to persist through this
conversation of staying true toourselves.
There was another nuanced themethat I noticed in Jaja's
African-herb rating politics,and that's something that people
tend to shy away from.
So the play is set during, Ibelieve, the Trump era.
(31:36):
Am I correct, or was itpost-Trump?
Yeah, 2019, so toward Vienna.
The Trump era yeah, so Iremember when I believe it was
Marie came on stage finally,like she was a character and we
knew her even before sheappeared on stage, but she said
something so prolific.
She said when should we go backto Africa?
(31:57):
Is it when, after we finishtaking care of your kids?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Watching your kids.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
That's when Jaja comes on stage.
The role of Jaja yeah, that wasso powerful and I looked around
like, oh my gosh, is anybody?
Is the white folks upset up inhere?
Who?
Are you scared to touch such asensitive topic, talking about
Trump and how this world viewsAfrican immigrants, only to be
(32:27):
hair braiders and caretakers?
Were you scared?
I was not scared.
I was not scared at all.
I mean, even though the play ispre-COVID and in the midst of
the Trump era, I think we've allbeen through a lot.
Any single audience member whois walking into that space can
(32:48):
acknowledge that whatever hashappened to them their lives can
understand that they'remarkedly drowned byELLEK from
that summer in 2019 to this fall, when they're sitting in that
Broadway theater.
A lot has happened and I thinkthey've all overcome a lot, so
including fear.
So I was not scared at all andI feel like there's a lot of
(33:09):
power in saying somethingwithout saying something.
So, like sure, we're talkingabout.
She's really directlyaddressing Trump and the people
who had a lot to say aboutimmigration.
However, there's no namesmentioned.
There's no whatever.
So it's like you can interpretit however you would like, but
it was important to share thatbecause I think that,
(33:31):
particularly during hispresidency and his
administration, there was onlyone face of immigration that
they were kind of peddling out,and for all of the hair braiding
ladies that I went to go seeduring that time, I had actually
been working in and out of LosAngeles at one point, so I was
(33:52):
getting my hair braided back inLA and New York wherever All of
them were really in deep fearabout what these policies were
perpetuating and what kind ofhatred it was inviting into
their world, and I think theywere the invisible immigrants in
a lot of ways that peopleweren't really paying attention
(34:14):
to and who were also beingequally as affected by all of
these policies as well.
So there was no fear in that.
I think we have to really, ifthere's, if anything, I would
like for people who come to seethe play, who maybe haven't
thought about immigration in anuanced way, that they leave
(34:36):
having had an education on that,and perhaps that will even
influence them right down tolike who they're voting for in
our next election.
It's important to be able tohumanize these people and these
stories, because the moment youdon't, they just become news
articles, they just becomethings you swipe by on social
(34:56):
media and they don't becomefully formed.
360 human beings.
And that's the power, sometimes, of art is that we can like,
really humanize something thatfeels like a news item that can
influence people all the waydown to the voting booth.
Got it?
So I move this directly for you, whitney.
So Jocelyn just mentioned, youknow, just bringing things to
(35:20):
life, and I just want to ask youspecifically once again when
you received the script, how didyou bring to life the word so
that we could see the story,even if we didn't want to hear
the word?
What was your thought processbehind that?
Because you did an amazing,amazing talk about that.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Well, you know it's funny.
I always I have always have abone to pick when I go see
theater and I'm like, wow,nothing in here sounds like real
human beings.
And so I guess, like wheneverI'm reading a text, I'm like how
can this sound as human aspossible at the speed of thought
, lived in, like it's happeningjust now for the first time?
(36:04):
And I think number one, jocelyn, is a master on the page.
It's like there's not a singleperiod or colon or comma out of
place and she's truly writingtext for performance, which is a
very specific thing.
Not all plays actually playthat well.
(36:24):
Some read better, some playbetter, and Jocelyn's do both
actually.
So I found like when I wastrying to make it come to life,
if I just really worked withwhat she gave me, then it
started to go, and I think a lotof this is casting to our
ensemble of players areincredible, and Jocelyn and I
(36:47):
went through an incrediblecasting process.
We watched so many tapes.
We we workshopped the playtwice and it's like we really
were looking for each woman tofeel like an iconically
different person.
I wanted you to have a fullsnapshot of who this woman was,
where she was coming fromsocioeconomically where she was
(37:08):
at in terms of culturalspecificity and like where she
was coming from in thecontinental diaspora, and so
that that was like a big processto cast both the braiders, the
immigrant women and the threeactors who play the four actors
who play the Americans you know,because each kind of paragraph
snapshot she gives you is veryspecific.
(37:30):
So like how do you land thatsome characters only have one
scene to be a whole person in awhole world?
So I think shout out to ourcast and our casting process was
a big part of the directingvision, I think.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Wow, well, you both did the damn thing.
I don't have anything else tosay about that.
But not only just the characterselection.
Like I said, the hairstyleswere characters in itself.
Like I literally watched onecharacter to say let me see how
long it's going to take for themto braid that hair, like I know
how long it took in the salon,I was like, oh my gosh, they did
(38:05):
an amazing job.
So what was the feedback from,let's say, the African community
and also the black community?
What was the feedback?
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Worst thing, that has been really positive.
I mean, yeah, gargoyle with me,we're still getting it.
We've been extended.
We've been extended, which is awonderful blessing.
And I will say, you know, Ilove sneaking in the theater and
being in the back, because Ihaven't seen that many of us in
a theater in a long time, andI'm not talking about
(38:40):
African-American people in theentertainment business.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I overhear people brothers bringing their girls on
dates, mechanics, sisters whodo hear themselves.
So I haven't been in a kind ofroom in a theater in a long time
that drew so many people, sothat to me feels like positive
feedback.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah, yeah, let me tell you something as I sat in
the theater with my daughter.
When we first got there itwasn't full and I was nervous
and I said, oh my gosh, I needpeople to show up.
But by the time those curtainslifted, there was not a single
empty chair in the theater, andfor that alone that was a
(39:19):
successful moment for me, and Ieven asked myself.
I said, I wonder if they comebehind the stage and they kind
of peek out to get theaudience's reaction.
So what was, let's say, themost entertaining audience
reaction that you've ever heardor seen?
Oh god, we've had many.
I think every show hasdifferent reactions that are
(39:42):
really funny.
I mean, a lot of people reactto the stage as if they're also
in the shop, and so what Ireally love is that I wanted the
whole theater to feel like theywere either a customer in the
shop or a fly on the wall, likethey felt like they were part of
the shop, and I feel like thathas also invited that element of
(40:05):
audience interaction too.
There's so many people who youknow when there's like a moment
with like a character who haslike a pretty tempestuous
relationship with her husband,and so when he comes into the
shop, you could feel the womenin the audience are like girl,
just get rid of him.
Yes, it's kind of like, that'skind of fun Certainly the magic
(40:31):
of the hair, I think, whenpeople get their hair braided
like.
There's one girl who's reallydead set about looking like
Beyonce when she comes into theshop and so when the reveal of
when her braids are done, peopleare really with her, like
they're clapping and cheeringwith her.
It's like like all of thatstuff is really, really exciting
(40:51):
.
It's for the culture, for theDiaspora culture.
There was a girl yesterday whotagged me on Instagram, who came
to the show for a second timeand the second time she brought
her hair braiding lady with her.
I just thought that was likethe most incredible thing.
(41:12):
And you saw the like hairbraiding lady like dancing, like
she was so thrilled to seeherself represented on a
Broadway stage and I yeah, itjust moved me to tears.
Yeah, well, let me tell you, Iwas seated by a couple who were
on a date and I asked themafterwards I said what made you
come on a date here?
(41:32):
And she said I need him tounderstand what I go through
every time I go to the salon andI'm gone all day.
Or I come back with theseamazing stories, or I come back
with some products that I boughtin the salon because somebody
came for the door.
So it is a play for everyeveryone.
(41:54):
So, jocelyn, what's next for you?
Oh, what is it?
What's next?
What is it next?
I don't know, I'm just going tograb the limit right now.
I'm truly thrilled to just getthis play up and off and that
the response has been reallyexciting.
I'm also a member of theWriters Guild and SAG, so my one
(42:20):
union is now longer on strikeand my other union is still on
strike.
So I'm kind of in a mid spacehere.
But right now it's all aboutJaja's.
It's all about continuing topush the play forward, get as
many audiences as we can, evenas many people have come already
(42:41):
.
I want to double that, triplethat.
How can we get any and everyonein there while we still are
running and then explore theworld some more?
There's many people who havecome to me just fully requesting
that I make it a TV show, as ifI have that power of myself
alone to do it.
So I'll think about that.
(43:03):
And then family.
Honestly, if I'm being real,sonia.
I'm spending time with myfamily.
I have a newborn that I had,thank you, just before we
started this rehearsal process.
So also just connecting with mylittle baby and doing all the
(43:24):
things and kind of collectingall the memories for when he can
figure it out and understandseven where his nose is that I
can explain to him all thethings I was doing while he was
like a little infant.
So that's amazing.
What about you, whitney?
What's next?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
I mean, similarly to Jocelyn, I just feel like this
play is so special and I just,you know, I think everyone in
the world needs to see it intheir own way, and I don't know,
I'm just I'm very passionateabout getting the word out there
.
I mean, you know, remember wewere walking down the street and
I came out, was like hello,ma'am, your brain is so good,
(44:07):
I'm directing this beautifulwoman's play.
You know, I literally go up topeople on the street begging
them to come see our play, whichhas embarrassed Jocelyn many
times.
But I'm just excited to see, Ican't help myself.
I haven't felt this way about aplay in a long time.
So I'm just trying to stickwith it and I'm excited to see
where it goes because, you know,once again, jocelyn is, she's
(44:30):
one of the best that we have andI think everybody needs to come
and be in the shop with us.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yes.
Well, just like you, whitney,no matter who I come across, I
am incorporating that into myconversation.
You have to go see Jaja'sAfrican hair braiding.
Like I'm saying this about 50times per day because that's how
much I believe in this play youtwo.
Look about.
I know you're younger than me.
You're like in your 30s.
(44:56):
Yes, yes, I just I just turned40.
I love it because you know,like I said, I'm 51 years old
and I'm looking not only lookingin front of me, but looking at
who's coming up next and I justwant to make sure that there are
enough responsibleconversations about us, about
(45:20):
our nuanced conversations thatreally need to be unpacked.
I'm glad that you both had theaudacity to bring Jaja's African
hair braiding to the audiencebecause, like I said, this is a
conversation that we don'tdiscuss.
This is a conversation about 4Chair.
That is a character of its own.
(45:41):
So, thank you two ladies forbeing socially and civically
responsible and for creatingcontent for us and by us.
I really appreciate you two.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Thank you, Sonia.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
No, let me tell you something.
After I met you two randomly onthe street, I told my daughter
I said look at God, you looklike you don't know how much of
a blessing it was to meet youbefore the play I was supporting
anyway.
So to run into you randomly onthe street, it was nothing but
(46:16):
God's blessing.
So continue to be blessed, bothof you, thank you.
Thank you, Sonia.
Thank you for being such asupporter of the show.
It really that really meant alot, like I was actually
surprised when Whitney was likegoing to give you the flyover.
Oh Lord, I'm like what is this?
(46:38):
And the fact that it was it wasa powerful moment for me when
you said I'm already on my waythere now with my daughter.
It just I couldn't even havefathomed something like that
growing up.
So it was magical for us too.
So thank you, no problem, andthe marketing will continue.
(46:59):
I just took her to.
I was covering media forCultureCon and Jaja's African
hair braiding was everywhere andI said y'all better go and see
this play.
So I wouldn't even be surprisedif the play was extended and I
wouldn't be surprised when youlaunch your next projects,
because it is going to have asmuch and even more success as
(47:23):
Jaja's African hair braiding.
No matter where you both land,your steps have already been
ordered and the sky is the limitbeyond the sky.
So, like I said, continuedblessings and thank you so much
for joining Sonia.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
So that's that.
This is the end of theconversation.
Continue.
Blessings, you too.
I'm just going to end this sothat I can continue on with the
show.
Take care, okay, thank you, bye, bye-bye.
There you have it.
So we had.
We had Jocelyn Bio and we hadWhitney White.
(47:59):
So Jocelyn is Jaja's Africanhair braiding playwright and
Whitney White is the director.
It's not just about puttingwords on a piece of paper,
because how will it translateonto the stage, onto the big
screen?
This play translated very, verywell on stage, when I tell you,
(48:23):
even before the curtains lifted, the curtains were images of
African or black women indifferent hair styles cornrows,
twists, box braids and I love to, I loved how we were
highlighted, showcased on thishuge, huge stage.
(48:47):
If you are a woman of color Idon't know if you aren't having
nuanced conversations about yourhair Jaja's got to be slipped
right with the edge control.
You want to make sure that yourwave pattern is patterning
Child.
Now even the FDA is about toban all chemical perms which a
(49:13):
lot of women of color use, butit has been so toxic on our hair
for years and now they areunderstanding that it has been
toxic on our hair and wanting toban it, but what about all
those women who are affected byit?
When I first started podcastingand I told you at the onset of
this show, I started podcastingwhen podcasting was considered
(49:36):
taboo.
It wasn't a real thing.
And I remember I hired acelebrity publicist and she
really told me, like, don't putyour hair in braids, don't wear
your natural hair.
And it got to a point when Ijust said, girl, you fine, you
no longer work yet.
So I took her to the board roomand I said no way.
(49:58):
And I started to representmyself how I felt I wanted to
represent myself.
So I'm hoping that for all ofyou who has listened to and
watched this conversation withJocelyn BO and Whitney White,
that you take a lot away fromthis conversation about standing
(50:19):
in your truth, being unafraidto have those uncomfortable
conversations, and also aboutexploring those nontraditional
jobs, especially for thisyounger generation.
You go to school and everyoneis just like go to college,
college, college, college,college.
Become a doctor, become alawyer.
And I'm not saying that no tocollege, because you know I have
(50:41):
a college degree, but I do knowthat college is in mint for
every single one and we need tostart exposing a lot more
creative careers to theconversation.
As a creative, you can have alucrative life being a creative.
So now that this digital spaceis kind of strengthening, and
(51:03):
especially with podcasting andthis whole AI social media,
there are a lot of jobs that areopening up.
So you would be crazy not tojump on it.
Like I said, I jumped onpodcasting.
It's been over 10 years, it'sbeen like maybe 12 or 13 years.
(51:24):
So please, please, please, get aticket to go purchase Jaja's
African Hair Breeding.
I'm telling you it is a playthat will have you having
conversations with your friends,your boyfriends, your lover,
your cousin, your auntie, youruncles.
It is a conversation for theyoung, the middle aged, the more
(51:50):
seasoned individuals, becausewho is not a black woman, a
woman of color, who doesn't haveconversation about her hair?
I wait, whoo.
Every single woman of color ishaving some conversation at some
point in time about her hair.
There was a huge episode that Idid in celebration of
(52:12):
Juneteenth and I had the authorof Black Hair, tamika I believe
her name is Wellington go backto that episode and we really
unpacked the nuancedconversations about black hair.
So I'm so happy that there areso many women of color deciding
to address this nuancedconversation of black hair,
(52:33):
because if you leave it to theonline vitriol, jaja, we are
nappy headed and breaking thefist comb.
Let the online people tell youthis.
So, once again, please go checkout Jaja's African Hair Braiding
and, while you're at it, makesure that you hit the like
button.
(52:53):
If you're watching this onYouTube, sanya and her streams
across every major streamingplatform.
Not only like and hit thenotification button, make sure
that you follow, make sure thatyou subscribe.
You can also follow me onsocial media at Sanya on Air,
that's on Instagram, that's onTicket Attack, that's on my
(53:14):
business Facebook page, that'son LinkedIn, it's on Thread,
it's on Twitter, you name it.
Sanya on Air is there?
So what a way to have a 100thepisode.
We did it.
So I just want to dedicate theclosing of the show to my mother
(53:35):
, deborah Hudson-Pain.
May you Rest in Power.
Well, that's all, folks.
Thank you so much for tuning into another amazing edition of
Sanya on Air.
Smooch yourself, take care.
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