October 10, 2024 • 70 mins
What if you could gain an insider's look into the music industry's glittering yet challenging world? Join me on "Sanya On-Air" as I sit down for an intimate conversation with Shirley Jones of The Jones Girls. Reflecting on my own journey and hiatus, I share my renewed commitment to opening doors for marginalized communities by spotlighting influential icons who have forged their own paths to success. We fondly recall the legendary contributions of entertainment figures, ensuring their legacies resonate with today's generation through powerful storytelling and nostalgia.
In this heartfelt episode, Shirley Jones takes us through her incredible journey from Detroit's Motown scene to international stardom. Hear firsthand accounts of her upbringing in a musically blessed family and how The Jones Girls' timeless hits like "Who Can I Run To" and "Nights Over Egypt" have left an indelible mark on R&B history. Shirley offers a candid look at the triumphs and trials faced by the trio, including the emotional complexities of performing and collaborating with legends like Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin, and Teddy Pendergrass.
Finally, we tackle crucial issues such as ownership of music masters, colorism, and the importance of education amidst rising fame. Shirley opens up about the impact of family support, the struggles with alcoholism, and the ongoing passion for music that transcends commercial success. We close with a thoughtful discussion on building pipelines to access for marginalized communities, underscoring our collective responsibility to uplift and inspire future generations. Subscribe now to "Sanya On-Air" for more enlightening celebrity conversations and to stay connected with the pulse of our cultural heritage.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sanya (00:09):
What is the purpose?
What am I trying to do?
People are giving you keys,giving you gems, creating
pipelines to access, talking toinfluential people icons about
how they've done it and sharingthe tips so that you can enter
(00:30):
into that space.
One thing that I do know aboutmarginalized communities is that
the Pipeline to Access is oftenlimited.
Now, if you cleaned up onSaturday mornings and your
parents played old school music,then this show is for you.
This time, that round ofapplause is just for you because
(00:59):
you made it to another all newseason of Sonia on Air.
I know I know, before you sayanything, I know I've been gone
for a little bit, but I wasprotecting my peace by any means
necessary, and sometimes youjust have to be still.
Sometimes you just have to bestill, and I was still before I
(01:20):
made this pivot, but I'm backwith an all new celebrity
interview.
So before I tell you abouttoday's guest, nothing's changed
.
Do a quick favor Subscribe.
Make sure you subscribe toevery Sonya on air streaming
platform.
Ok, so Sonya streams acrossjust about every major platform,
but if you're watching this onYouTube, make sure that you
(01:42):
press the notification bell thatway, every time I upload an all
new Sonya on air celebrityinterview.
You'll be the first ones toknow.
So during my time away, I hadsome time to think.
I had to think about thisplatform in particular, like
what is the purpose?
What am I trying to do?
There's so much salaciousnessin the entire world not just on
(02:05):
the internet, but the entireworld and there's few people,
few people.
I won't say there isn't anyone,but there's very few people who
are giving you keys, giving yougems, creating pipelines to
access, talking to influentialpeople icons about how they've
(02:25):
done it and sharing the tips sothat you can enter into that
space.
One thing that I do know aboutmarginalized communities is that
the pipeline to access is oftenlimited.
It's so limited that sometimesit just seems non-existent.
So this is what I want to dowhile I have celebrities in my
sign on your studios, I justwant to talk about their pivotal
(02:47):
moments.
I want to talk about how theyhave benefited from pipelines of
access or created pipelines ofaccess themselves.
So let me tell you about today'sguest.
But did you subscribe yet?
Did you subscribe?
Did you hit the notificationbell?
I got all day.
I made y'all wait for a newshow, so I got all day.
(03:09):
Okay, today's guest.
I'm excited.
Let me tell you, this is a tripdown memory lane just for me and
, I'm sure, other peoplewatching this show.
So, if you're watching the show, this is who's this show for?
This show is for the classy,sophisticated woman who might be
a mother or she isn't, but shewas born during a certain era of
(03:32):
hip hop.
Ok, we'll see age, but she wasborn during, during a certain
era of hip hop, certain era ofmusic where we grew up listening
to songs in the 50s, 60s and70s as we cleaned up on
Saturdays.
Now, if you cleaned up onSaturday mornings and your
parents played old school music,then this show is for you,
(03:56):
because I'm reaching back to somany legends, so many icons
across the entertainmentindustry, just to remind you all
.
They're still here and we needto pay homage and also give them
their flowers, because this newgeneration of entertainers, of
influencers they really don'tknow their history, child.
No, they don't, but Sonia Oneris going to give it to them
(04:19):
every time I have a celebrityinterview.
So, now that you've subscribed,right, right, okay, let me tell
you about today's guest.
Now, every Saturday morning,when I was leaving because my
parents had me cleaning okay, onmy knees, hands and knees just
scrubbing, just scrubbing.
(04:40):
One thing if you go tosomebody's bathroom and if you
look at the toilet, you know thebase of the toilet.
If it's dirty, leave, run, run.
Ok, I digress.
Today's guest, shirley Jones.
How many of you are familiarwith the Jones girls?
Me?
(05:02):
Ok, once, if you forgot,because you know, sometimes,
sometimes we forget.
I know I'm at a certain,sometimes I may forget.
So shirley jones is one thirdof the trio, the jones girls.
Right, she was the lead singerand her other two sisters made
up the other part of the trio.
Now, did you know this?
(05:23):
Escape was not the first groupto sing the R&B classic who Can
I Run To.
The original singers of thatsong, who Can I Run To, was the
Jones Girls.
Did you know that?
Did you know that?
So, once again, the Jones girlscreated the pipeline to access
(05:48):
so that Escape could make thatsong like legendary.
Who doesn't know Escape'srendition of who Can I Run To?
It's a classic song that spansso many generations.
So you need to know where musicoriginated from.
And also that song, who Can IRun To, that was originated by
the Jones Girls.
Guess how many times it wassampled?
(06:09):
49 times.
49 times that amazing song wassampled.
Now, another artist who sampledthat song was Faith Evans.
I didn't even know, didn't evenknow.
So you know her song, I Don'tNeed it from her Faith the First
Lady album.
Lately I've been wonderingYou're out here hugging the
(06:34):
block and I'm here alone.
Again, that's the Jones Girls.
The Jones Girls.
The original song was calledNights Over Egypt.
So many fun facts and I justgave you a few.
So we're going to take a fewcommercial breaks and I'm just
going to jump into thisconversation with Shirley Jones.
(06:54):
Make sure you stay tuned, makesure you subscribe, make sure
you hit the notification bell.
Be right back.
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Now back to Sonia on air.
Okay, so the focus of thisentire conversation is going to
(07:41):
be about your experience in themusic industry and the doors
that were opened for you and thedoors that you opened for
others.
Okay, Okay.
So let me first tell you it isreally an honor to have you in
my studio because, as a childgrowing up in Brooklyn, New York
, I'm from the generation wherethe kids cleaned every single
(08:02):
Saturday while the parentsplayed music.
Shirley (08:06):
Yeah.
Sanya (08:07):
This is how I was introduced to the Jones girls,
but I don't know if you heard mesinging some of your lyrics.
Yes, I did, because for me,like I said, it's nostalgic and
I want to make sure that I'mintroducing my daughter, who's
29, to an amazing generation ofmusic and artists such as
yourself.
(08:27):
So what was it like growing upin Detroit and were you born in
the fifties?
Yes, I was.
Shirley (08:36):
What was it like growing up in Detroit?
Grew up in the sixties Okay, itwas great, I mean it was was
Motown.
So one of the things I mean youwould see people like Marvin
Gaye you know we all kind of andSmokey Robinson, you would see
(08:56):
them, you know.
And my mom was a gospel singerso we traveled around A lot With
her.
She was a very popular gospelsinger.
In fact she was the first Blackgospel singer that RCA Records
signed.
They signed her the same year,the same day that they signed
(09:17):
Little Richard.
This was before I was born andso that had to be.
I guess, early 50s, 1950, inthe 50s Then, with it being
Motown, they had what was calledthe Motown Review.
Every Christmas.
All of the kids we would gothere because the show would be
(09:42):
like five or six acts Some yearsthe Supremes, the Temptations,
gladys Knight and the Pips andwe would all put on our
Christmas garb.
It was always a day or twoafter Christmas and they would
have shows all day long.
And so it was great growing upin Motown.
Sanya (10:02):
I can't even imagine just leaving home or getting dressed
, leaving home and going to seeartists such as Smokey Robinson
and just the whole Motown stuff.
Shirley (10:15):
It was amazing.
And then when we actuallystarted singing doing background
, it was for Holland DozierHolland.
Barry Gordy gave Holland DozierHolland their own label in
Detroit.
And maybe I was about 12 whenwe started doing background for
(10:40):
Music Merchant, for theirartists.
Like we did background for Freeto Pain Honeycomb, we did some
background work for GeneralJohnson and what's the name of
their group?
General Johnson, those guys,general Johnson, those guys.
(11:11):
And then they were so impressedwith our background singing
that they even cut a couple oflocal records.
They were local hits in Detroit.
And you were 12?
I was 12.
, yeah, but when our first localhit came out, I was 12 or 13.
Sanya (11:24):
Yes, oh my gosh.
But let's go back a little bit,because I remember here in New
York there was a famous Broadwaymusical called Mama I Want to
Sing.
Well, you took that literallylike Mama I Want to Sing.
Your mom was a famous gospelsinger.
When did she first realize thatyou and your sisters had talent
(11:46):
?
Shirley (11:46):
Well, it came in steps.
We're stair steps.
We're really close in age.
So for a while it was just mymom and I.
And then one day she heardBrenda.
Brenda just started harmonizingto a song that my mom and I
were singing, and when she didthat my mom put her in the show
(12:09):
too.
Then it was my mom, Brenda andmyself.
Then a little later on, one dayshe heard Valerie, and that's
when she really realized thenthat she had something.
And because she was the musicdirector at our home church as
well, she also, she startedtraining our voices, you know,
(12:33):
teaching us how to blend.
She was a master on blending byhaving, like me, having the
really high voice.
She would have me pull backsome and teach Val and Brenda
how to, you know, come up some.
And we practiced every, prettymuch every day, Like most kids,
(12:57):
would you know they would.
Their parents would say well,you guys can stay out and play
till the lights come.
You know, the streetlights comeon.
My mom, we could stay out andplay until she decided that it
was time for us to rehearse andshe would call us in and whether
the streetlights were on or not, we would have to go in and
rehearse.
(13:17):
And we had a big old piano, abig picture window at the front
of our house, and that's wherethe piano was and we'd be in
there rehearsing, wanting to beoutside with our friends.
But then, but then the uh songsounded so good that the friends
, our friends, would begathering outside cause they
could hear us through the window.
(13:38):
And so it was fun.
And then we got to the pointwhere we enjoyed rehearsing with
my mom because we knew, youknow, that we kind of had
something special, because wewere so young and all these
adults were wanting us to dobackground for them Holland,
Dozier, Holland and we were like, OK, so we must have something
(14:01):
going on.
So that's how that all started.
Sanya (14:05):
Wow, that's amazing.
You know, when people see suchiconic artists such as yourself,
they often wonder how did theyget started?
Your pipeline was createdthrough your mother.
She was already in the industry, introduced it to you and your
sisters.
You started off becomingbackground singers.
Now, initially, when singersenter the music industry, maybe
(14:27):
they want to be lead singers orhave their own group.
Shirley (14:33):
Were you and your sisters OK with being background
singers?
No, I mean, we enjoy beingbackground singers, but we also
were hoping and praying that wewould one day be able to have
recordings.
The few recordings that we putout with Holland, georgia,
holland, of course, led toCurtis Mayfield hearing us,
(14:55):
which led us to Chicago on hislabel by the time I was maybe 16
.
It was before I graduated fromhigh school and he recorded
several records.
In fact there's an album outthat's rare.
(15:17):
I have a CD copy that someonegave me one time when I was over
in Europe, called the JonesGirls, the Early Years, and that
takes you all the way back toMusic Merchant with Holland,
georgia, holland and CurtisMayfield.
Sanya (15:29):
Wow, yeah, that's such a robust life and we're only at
the age of 16.
How did your peers treat you inhigh school?
Did they treat you like thisbig time celebrity?
Shirley (15:42):
Oh, yeah, my mom, once we had that first local record
out, we no longer walked toschool.
She took us and picked us upbecause she was a nurse and she
worked midnight.
So she would take us and pickus up.
And Val you know in fact in ourunsung a couple of our best
friends who were Val's protector, because Val was always very,
(16:09):
very shy and consequently a lotof girls would kind of bully her
they wouldn't bully Brenda or Ibecause we were kind of right
up in there, you bully me, youbetter look out.
But Val was and a couple ofgirls always said they were in
our sun because they were herprotectors and they would tell
(16:31):
those girls hey, if you're going, you know you got to come
through me to get to Valerie.
So that's the way they handledthat.
That's the way they handledthat.
But yeah, they knew, in fact Iwas in the.
It was a group of like theeight singers.
(16:55):
We were called the troubadoursin high school and we sang all
around town and I was a memberof that group too.
So people treated us.
They just love to hear us sing.
Sanya (17:05):
Wow, that is amazing.
But I also read somewhere.
You know you mentioned a fewpeople that you sung background
for, but you were also singingbackground for Diana Ross,
aretha Franklin and Teddy Grass,teddy Pendergrass.
What is your most memorablemoment?
Singing background with DianaRoss?
Shirley (17:27):
Well, we did Diana Ross for three years.
When Holland, dozier, hollandand Motown moved to California,
(17:50):
they would still fly us in fromDetroit because Valerie had not
finished high school yet, I wasin college, brenda was in
college, wayne State Universityso they still couldn't find any
background singers out there inCalifornia where they moved.
So they would fly us in duringthe summer and we would do
recordings for different people.
So one day McKinley Jackson,who was kind of managing us at
the time, after we had finisheda session, he said you know,
(18:10):
Diana Ross is looking for somebackground singers and you,
ladies, she's been turningeverybody down.
And we said well, hey, you know, we're from Detroit, so that
should give us an in.
And he said okay, y'all want totry.
And we said yeah.
So we, um, we thought we weresaying, we thought we were going
(18:30):
up there to audition for hermusic director gil, a guy by the
name of gil askey, and her roadmanager, a guy by the name of
don peak.
So we went up this hill, loyalcanyon, all the way up to this
big, beautiful house and westarted singing.
We had practiced Ain't noMountain High Enough, because
(18:51):
those were her hot songs back in76, I think those were the hot
songs that she had out.
And we Ain't no Mountain HighEnough and Reach Out and Touch
Somebody's Hand.
So we were standing around thepiano.
Ain't no mountain high enoughand reach out and touch
somebody's hand.
So we were standing around thepiano singing those songs that
we had practiced and we noticedthat Gil and Don weren't saying
(19:15):
anything.
They were just kind of lookingat each other with these smiles
on their faces while we weresinging.
And then all of a sudden, downthis long hallway comes Diana
Ross, and we almost fell out andthe only words out of her mouth
was you guys are terrific, canyou get passports?
We're going to Europe?
And we looked at each other.
(19:36):
Brenda ran to the bathroom.
She said she had to throw upbecause she couldn't believe
that we were actually that.
That was Diana Ross.
Throw up because she couldn'tbelieve that we were actually,
that.
That was Diana Ross.
I mean, if you have to rememberwhen we were little girls,
that's who we idolized theSupremes, martha Reese and the
Vandellas.
And every time we would seethem on the Ed Sullivan show, we
would beg my mom, who was alsoa seamstress, to make us you
(19:59):
know, can you make us thoseoutfits and she put us something
together similar.
She wasn't that good of asinger.
She did okay with putting stufftogether for us.
So that's how we got with herand we're the only or at least
we were the first backgroundsingers for her that after the
(20:21):
European tour she came to us andshe was getting ready to do her
yearly residency at Vegas andthen Reno, because they were
doing residencies way back inthe day, diana Ross did Vegas
for three weeks every year forthe three years that we were
with her and she came to us andshe said everybody's talking
(20:45):
about you guys and, um, so whatI'm going to do?
Uh, because she was not withMotown at the time I think that
was when she had left and shewas with Warner brothers.
She said I'm going, I want youguys to pick a song, choose a
song and I want you to learn it.
That you know, and I want youto do it.
You know I changed clothes five, six times in my show.
(21:08):
I want to introduce you to theworld, and so we chose If I Ever
Lose this Heaven, which was onQuincy Jones' album way back in
the day.
And that's exactly what she didEvery time, no matter where we
went after that European tour,she would say all right, I'm
(21:28):
getting ready to go change myclothes and I want you guys to
check out my background.
Singers, aren't they awesome,check them out.
And then she said girls, ladiesand gentlemen, the Jones
sisters.
She always called us the Jonessisters.
Sanya (21:42):
Nice.
Such an amazing story, butstill so young.
Who was protecting?
Shirley (21:49):
you.
My mom was with us most of thetime, up until when Val turned
18, mckinley Jackson, who wasmanaging us and who I was also
dating at that time.
He was the producer andarranger for Holland Jones, your
Holland, so he protected us andhe was out there with us.
Sanya (22:11):
So and I want to talk about that mixing business with
pleasure how was it like datingyour manager, and was that a
recipe for disaster?
No, we.
Shirley (22:21):
In fact he.
He's responsible for us gettingwith Diana Ross, he's
responsible for getting us onall those background sessions
with Aretha and Dionne Warwickand Norman Connors and Teddy
Pendergrass and Helen Reddy andCher.
I mean we did background for anarray of different people in
(22:45):
the music industry because atthat time there were really only
two groups, both family groupsit was us and the Waters, and
they're still very, very popularout there in California that
people wanted.
They wanted a certain sound andthen, plus, we created a lot of
(23:08):
our backgrounds and they knewthat too.
So that's how McKinley wassolely responsible for getting
us all that work and getting uswith Diana Ross.
Sanya (23:21):
Nice.
You don't find that.
Too often you find peoplesaying don't mix the business.
With pleasure I've heard somany groups fall apart because
someone was dating the managerand there was some sort of
preferential treatment to onesinger.
So I'm glad to hear that yourstory didn't turn out like the
rest.
But there was something elsethat you said about you know
(23:42):
you're being a background singerand you were also in school.
Why were you still in schoolwhen you were still like this
big time celebrity at that point?
Was it because education wasvery important in your household
?
Shirley (23:56):
Oh yeah, it was.
In fact, even once we moved toCalifornia, I changed my credits
to UCLA for, you know, becauseeducation was always very
important.
You know because my mom used toalways tell us she was a reader
(24:17):
, and I was a reader too.
You know, I just readeverything that you have to
learn, especially your history,and you need to be educated
because you need to know thebusiness, you need to know
everything, and you come.
All of those things come frombeing educated and from reading
(24:39):
and finding facts for yourself.
That way, you're not subject tofinding facts for yourself.
That way, you're not subject toother people controlling your
mind.
Sanya (24:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Shirley (24:58):
So let's talk about the money back then Was the money
enough to really take care ofyou, your sisters and your
family?
Oh yeah, diana paid very well.
Family oh yeah, diana paid verywell.
And doing background sessionswas we were paid very well.
And the beauty, the one thingthat she did that I like, was
that we traveled with her forthose three years, at least
(25:19):
seven months out of every year,but during those other five
months when she was not working,she did allow us to do
background singing for otherpeople, because she knew that
during those five months, yes,she paid us extremely well, but
during those five months when weweren't working, she knew that
(25:42):
we still needed to make a living.
So that's what she did allow usand that's when we really
started singing background for awhole lot of other people, like
Aretha and everybody.
Sanya (25:57):
Wow, do you still keep in touch with Diana Ross?
Shirley (26:01):
I have not seen her in maybe six, seven, seven years.
Yeah, okay, since both of mysisters, you know, passed, I
haven't seen her.
Sanya (26:13):
Got it, got it.
What was it like working withAretha Franklin.
Shirley (26:18):
Well, we knew her because we had sang.
My mom knew her dad and we hadsang at her dad's church as
little girls.
Sanya (26:25):
Wow.
Shirley (26:26):
Yeah, because Aretha really she and Kenny Gamble
really were pushing for us tonot only do the music you know,
she did the Sparkle soundtrackbut she wanted us in the movie
and we auditioned to sing aswell as be the actresses in
(26:47):
there, but we did not get it, uh, but, and she was quite upset
about that, and the only reasonwhy we're not singing background
on that is because kenny gamblewas quite upset and felt that
it was a light-skinned art, youknow, because we were browner
sisters.
That's the only reason why wecouldn't get the, because, I
(27:09):
mean, we out sang all the girlsIrene, kara and all of them and
we were natural sisters.
So he was upset when we didn'tget the part and they wanted us
to still do the background andhe said no, you know, they got
other to still do the backgroundand he said no, wow, they got
other things to do and we werebusy during that time anyway,
(27:30):
because You're Gonna Make MeLove Somebody Else had become a
massive hit.
So we were out on tour with theOJs, so it all worked out okay.
Sanya (27:39):
Wow, well, you know, you talked about colorism just a
little bit.
Wow, well, you know, you talkedabout colorism just a little
bit.
Did you feel as if you and yourgroup weren't selected?
Because, oh, absolutely, wefelt that.
Shirley (27:51):
Absolutely.
We felt that yes.
Sanya (27:53):
How was colorism really handled back then in the music
industry?
Was it like a normal thingwhere if you were a darker
complexion woman that you knewthat you would kind of be
overlooked?
Shirley (28:03):
woman that you knew that you would kind of be
overlooked.
Yeah, I mean, and it happened.
It happened and it's stillprevalent today.
I mean, you know, and then youhave those that you know
brighten their skin, you know,like Diana.
Diana was much browner, butthat's one thing my mother
instilled in me, because I'm thedarkest of the three.
She said you are beautiful justas you are your complexion, and
(28:27):
I've just always known that.
I feel that.
And one thing when differentthings happen because of
colorism, I'm like, well, theycan't out-sing me.
So that's one thing for sure.
Sanya (28:40):
Well, right now.
Yeah, and then you mentionedmusic legend Kenny Gamble.
Now he was.
He signed you to Philadelphiainternational records.
Talk about that, the day thatyou signed your first major
record contract.
Shirley (29:01):
Well, you know it was.
It was a blessing because wewere at the Schubert Theater
with Diana and she had told usshe said Gamblin' Huff's going
to be in the audience tonight,lady.
So you know, put an extralittle thing on your song when I
(29:21):
call you guys down.
And of course we did, becauseat that time Philly
International was the hottestlabel.
They were hotter than Motown.
It was the OJs and Billy Pauland the Stylistics and Teddy
Pendergrass and Harold Melvin'sBlue Notes and Gene Karn and
(29:41):
Phyllis Hyman and Patti LaBelle.
And we were like, when theycame back to our dressing room
after her show and they asked us, they said are you, ladies,
signed with anybody?
You guys are terrific.
And we're like no.
And they said, well, would youlike to be a part of Philly
(30:02):
International?
Because I believe six monthsearlier they had just parted
ways with the three degrees.
So we were like, absolutely so.
We went back home to Cal we wereall living in California at the
time and our attorneys got withtheir attorneys and we signed
our first contract and withinthree months we were flown there
(30:26):
and they always put us up inapartments.
They call them Airbnbs now, butthey would put us up in these
apartments because we were therefrom the beginning of the album
until back in the day.
There was a whole concept foreach album cover and how every
so we were there from thebeginning of that to the very
(30:49):
end, and that usually took aboutthree months.
So that's what we did, and we,the first day when we pulled
into 309 South Broad Street andacross the street was this
restaurant called the Fantasy,and so Gamble came, they gave us
(31:10):
our schedule, because it waslike school.
Every day we would get withthis producer, dexter Wanzel,
then McFadden and Whitehead, andwe would spend an hour or two
every day with the differentproducers and they were
presenting songs and it was up,you know, and then we would all
(31:30):
decide which songs we wereactually going to record and we
would record the ones that wethought were best, and then
Kenny and Leon would suggestsongs too.
But I remember that first dayafter they gave us our schedule
for the week, gamble said well,ladies, go across the street and
(31:52):
I'm going to treat you todinner at the Fantasy.
And we went across the streetand I mean, who was there?
I mean they all were there towelcome us Eddie LaVert, the OJs
, teddy, let's see Billy, paul,gene Karn.
They were all there at the atthe Fantasy Restaurant and we
(32:13):
were like kids in a candy store.
We could not believe that wewere now with a label of with
such popular, incredible singingartists and we became family
after that.
But I mean, eddie and Walter tothis day are like brothers
(32:34):
because they were the first onesto take us out on the road.
So it was just a beautifulexperience being around so many
talented musicians and artists,wow.
Sanya (32:48):
I would love to have been a fly on the wall around this,
but you mentioned earlier on,you know, singing background and
receiving some form ofnotoriety or fame.
But then, now you're signed tothis big record label and you
and your sisters released yourfirst single You're Gonna Make
Me Love Somebody Else.
(33:09):
What did this fame now feellike?
Shirley (33:13):
Man, we could not believe it.
The first time we heard it onthe radio we had gone back to LA
and KJLH played it.
We learned about the charts andwe were watching it go up the
charts but we hadn't heard ityet because it had not yet hit
California.
And I remember driving on thefreeway and they KJLH, which is
(33:38):
Stevie Wonder Station.
They said the guy said here's anew.
The guy said here's a newup-and-coming jam by a new group
that used to be Diana Ross'sbackground singers, the Jones
Girls.
And then I heard it and I waslike oh my God, I couldn't wait
to get home and to tell Brendaand Valerie that I had heard it.
(34:00):
And you know we didn't havecell phones back then, so I just
had to speed on the freeway toget back to the apartment
because we were, all you know,in the same apartment building.
And I told him.
I said I heard the record today.
And then it got to the pointwhere we would turn the radio on
every day to make sure we heardit and have our friends call in
(34:23):
to, you know, request it.
So it was a great experience.
Sanya (34:28):
That sounds like an amazing experience.
How many albums did you andyour sisters make with Philly
International?
Four, we did four with them.
Four, and during that time thatyou were on that record label,
were you happy?
Shirley (34:43):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I mean because Kenny and Leon,they were absolutely great.
I mean we came out the box withyou Gonna Make Me Love Somebody
Else and then also on thatalbum was who Can I Run To?
Which was the B-side?
That was the B-side of youGonna Make Me Love Somebody Else
.
Can we pause?
Sanya (35:04):
Let's pause for a second, because people need to
understand that, Because peoplethink that Escape was the first
group to think who can I run to?
And no, no, no, no, no, it wasthe Jones girls.
No, the Jones sisters.
Right.
Shirley (35:19):
And I tell people every time in my show, because who
Can I Run To happens to be myfavorite song bar none, you know
.
So I tell people in my show andback in, well, when, and I tell
Escape, I've met the girls andthey have said we hope we did it
justice, and I said, oh, youguys did a great job.
(35:40):
I said, and then, what you did,you brought a whole bunch of
new fans back to us.
I always came out in seven,nineteen, seventy, nine, because
it was the B side of you'regoing to make me love somebody
else, because it was the B-sideof you're going to make me love
somebody else.
So consequently, with it beinga B-side, it did not get as much
airplay until Escape did it.
(36:01):
And then back in 1995, when theyput it out, the disc jockeys,
you know, they were like, ah,they would play Escape's version
and they would say, okay, foryou young people, now this is
1995, telling the young peoplethen this is not a new song,
(36:21):
this song was done 16 years agoby the Jones Girls and they
would play our version.
And then, you know, peoplewould call in and say which
version they like.
So over the years people haveknown.
And then, when Escape did theirunsung, they showed us and gave
us credit.
And then we did our unsung.
And so a lot of people know,most people know now that we did
(36:48):
it first.
And those that don't't know, ifthey show up to one of my shows,
they definitely know beforethey leave, because I always
tell them that I said and thishappens to be my favorite jones
girl song- yeah, but who can Irun to escape?
Sanya (37:05):
was wasn't the only group that sampled.
I read that who can I run to?
Was sampled 49 times.
Is that true?
Shirley (37:13):
It has been that night all of our songs, which to me
it's the highest form ofappreciation and flattery.
It really is, because that justmeans that we had something out
there that other people wantedto put in some form in their
music.
Sanya (37:35):
Like Nights Over Egypt, has been sampled by Faith, by
Faith.
Yes, I didn't know that.
Yeah, I remember like whenFaith's song starts, I was like
I know that melody that beatfrom somewhere, yeah, and then,
as I was doing my research, Isaid, oh, that's where I heard
it, once again cleaning.
Shirley (37:53):
And then, as I was doing my research, I said, oh,
that's where I heard it Onceagain cleaning up on Saturday
morning.
Yeah, that's it.
And Jay-Z did you Gonna Make MeLove Somebody Else?
They say that was one of hisbiggest records.
Yes, so you know, we've had ourstuff sampled and I'm just glad
now that, through all thedifferent laws and things, that
(38:14):
when our music is played youknow the original artists are
finally getting compensated forit.
Like, say, Knights of Egypt wasjust in the Book of Clarence,
so with you know the movie, theBook of Clarence, which is
Jay-Z's movie.
So now, with the new laws thatare in place, we get paid for
(38:42):
them using our intellectualproperty our voices.
Sanya (38:44):
So question.
So artists no longer have tocontact you for permission to
sample.
Shirley (38:50):
Well, they contact the radio.
I mean the label, the recordlabel and whoever owns the
master, that's who they contact.
But then AFTRA, the AmericanFederation, the Union of
Television and Radio Artists,and SAG Screen Actors Guild,
(39:10):
they contact us and then let usknow that we do this amount of
money for our voices being used.
Sanya (39:24):
Yes, got it Now.
You briefly mentioned the wordowning your masters.
Do you own any of your songsowning your masters?
Do you own any of your songs?
Shirley (39:33):
I'm in the process now of getting all of the masters
and it's been a two year processand it should be completed.
It was, they said, the end ofset by the end of September, so
I'm hoping to get that phonecall next week.
Sanya (39:50):
Yes, Can you just briefly explain what is the importance
of an artist owning theirmasters?
Shirley (39:57):
Because then anytime anybody uses it they have to
come through you and then youget paid for.
Then you really get paid moneyfor the use of your recording.
Sanya (40:14):
And there was another question I meant to ask you a
few moments ago, because webriefly talked about you and
your sister signing toPhiladelphia International.
Did you ever think, because youwere from Detroit, that Motown
was going to sign you first?
Shirley (40:28):
No, they were interested when we were little
girls.
They were interested when wewere little girls.
But then they gave Holland,joeser Holland, their label and
we signed to music, yeah.
And then when we were singingwith Diana, barry Gordy was
interested.
But Diana was on the outs withMotown and she says I don't want
(40:52):
you guys going to Motownbecause they're not going to do
anything with you.
So that's why she had us learna song and she wanted to
introduce us to other recordlabels, which it was a lot of
them back then.
Now, now it's not so much, youknow, because they're not
signing.
Everybody now has kind of liketheir own label because it's
more, it's completely differentthan it was 40, 45 years ago
(41:16):
well, I'm very pleased to hearthat diana ross was so
supportive.
Sanya (41:20):
Oh, yeah, yes, yeah, and strengthening your career and
opening up rooms that you maynot have been invited into.
But I want to talk aboutmistakes or lessons learned,
because you mentioned that youhad four albums with
Philadelphia International, butthen you decided to leave why?
Shirley (41:39):
um well, our contract was up and we weren't really
happy with with the success ofthe, the very last, the third
album that we did with them.
Especially with that albumhaving Nights Over Egypt on it,
we felt that it should havegotten much more airplay than it
(42:01):
did.
And so we decided, after thatthird album we had an offer from
RCA and we wanted to trysomething different, and we
weren't even sure that Gamblingthem were going to resign us
anyway.
So we we took the offer andwent over there with Fonzie
(42:23):
Thornton, who's Luther's bestfriend and his co-partner, and
Robert Wright and they recordedand the album was a really good
album, but at that same time, analbum that we had in the can
that Kenny Burke had did a lotof the production on Gamble and
(42:45):
them released that.
So, and that was the fourthalbum, and that album actually
did better than the On Targetalbum.
Sanya (42:55):
So this is around like the 80s, correct?
Shirley (42:58):
Yes, this was around 80 , 84, 85.
Sanya (43:03):
Yes, so now that you and your sisters are on RCA and the
music isn't doing too well, RCAdecided to drop the group music
isn't doing too well.
Shirley (43:16):
Rca decided to drop the group.
Sanya (43:22):
Yeah, but then the group as a whole.
We were having a lot ofinternal problems too.
Shirley (43:25):
What were they?
Yes, internally, internally alot of.
That's when a lot of ofinfighting us and a lot of the
alcoholism problem thateventually Valerie passed from
and then, not too too long ago,brenda too, those problems were.
(43:48):
They started showing up.
Brenda decided to get married.
I decided to leave the groupbecause I just had had enough at
one point of babysitting andtrying to perform too.
Valerie wanted to experiencecollege.
(44:11):
Because she was the only onethat never did so.
She went back to Detroit withmy mom and Brenda got married
and I continued to sing.
I was singing background withother people, like Howard Hewitt
(44:36):
, we were doing backgroundsessions, lynn Davis doing stuff
for Shante Moore, a lot ofstuff for George Duke.
So I was doing a backgroundstuff, singing.
And then one day Kenny hadcalled me and, you know, he
asked me.
He said well, you know, haveyou ever thought about doing a
(44:59):
solo project?
And that's when I went back toPhiladelphia.
I'm like, absolutely I wouldlove to.
So that's how I became, youknow, became a soloist, got it.
Sanya (45:11):
But let's just backpedal a little bit and just talk about
the pitfalls of the industry.
Do you think that your sisterengaged in alcohol because of
the stress of the music industry, or do you think that she just
has some own personal issues?
Shirley (45:27):
Well, it's a combination of alcoholism ran in
our family Okay, my, you know,my mom's baby sister was and it
seemed like it was the babies inevery generation in my family.
So it ran in our family andthen too, yeah, back in the day,
(45:48):
thank God, you know, back inthe day it was a lot of drugs
and alcohol.
We just did the alcohol part ofit, not the drug part, but I
mean, they were both just as bad, because an alcoholic addiction
is just as bad as a drugaddiction.
Sanya (46:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.
So you started off as abackground singer.
Then eventually you go toPhiladelphia International, then
you go to RCA, the group getsdropped and then you return to
background singing.
Did you feel as if that was astep backward or like you were a
(46:31):
failure for doing that?
Shirley (46:33):
No, not at all, because I was singing and that's all
I've ever wanted to do was sing.
I just, you know, I just lovesinging.
So I was singing.
And then the reason why a lotof those people had, you know,
would contact me, because theywere trying to get that, you
know, similar sound.
(46:54):
And even Brendan, valerie and I, even though we had stopped
singing as the Jones girlspeople, some people, we would
still get together and dobackground for certain people
that will call us, like NormanConnors, you know people of that
sort.
Sanya (47:09):
But I still wanted to, always wanted, to be out front
well out front you did anamazing job because that hit
song.
Do you get enough?
Shirley (47:20):
yes, yeah oh, that was amazing.
Uh, and it's funny because thatsong was actually written for
the oj's, the late great bunnyseagull I teased.
I thank eddie and walter everytime I see them or perform was
actually written for the OJs.
What the late great Bunny Segal.
I teased.
I thanked Eddie and Walterevery time I see them or perform
for turning that song down.
I just happened to be walkingdown the hall at Philly
(47:44):
International because Gamble hadbrought me in and we were just
getting ready to start listeningand picking songs for the album
and I happened to hear Bunny inthere with this song and I said
, oh, I love this, I love thissong.
He said, well, I'm glad you do,because the OJs just turned it
down.
And I said, well, I want to doit.
(48:04):
And he said you.
He said it was written for meand I said I want to do that
song.
I said do you get enough love?
I said love is universal.
So he said well, go, if Gamblesays yes, then you can do it.
So I went to Kenny and I askedhim.
I said, kenny, I really want todo this song that the OJs just
(48:26):
turned down, and he said youreally want to do that song?
I said, kenny, I really want todo this song that the OJs just
turned down, and he said youreally want to do that song?
I said yeah.
He said all right, you andBunny go for it.
I'll give you a nephew now.
He didn't pay me.
(48:47):
That's my nephew.
Sanya (48:52):
PJ, that's Valerie's son.
Yeah, nice, nice PJ, that'sValerie's son.
Yeah, nice, nice, nice.
But you know, I always listento that song on YouTube as I
watch you perform it on SoulTrain.
Talk about the day youperformed.
Do you Get Enough Love on SoulTrain?
Oh, man.
Shirley (49:09):
We had done Soul Train as the Jones Girls, we did
Children of the Night and DanceTurn to Romance some years
earlier.
But to be doing Soul Train whenDo you Get Enough Love?
Was the number one record inthe country.
It was such a great experienceA little kind of bittersweet,
(49:32):
because I was so used toperforming with my sisters, so
it was a little bittersweet butit worked out.
It worked out beautifully andit was the first number one
record because all of our songshad only gone to I think you
Gonna Make Me Love.
Somebody Else had gone to likenumber three or number two,
(49:55):
because back in those days youknow Michael Jackson, I think,
was holding the number one spot.
You know Michael Jackson, Ithink, was holding the number
one spot.
But to have my song, me, go tonumber one was a beautiful thing
.
And then it stayed there for acouple of weeks.
Sanya (50:17):
So that was really, really nice.
I'm just getting full of all ofyour stories.
Do you prefer being?
Shirley (50:28):
in a group or solo, actually I don't know.
I mean because it was mysisters.
I loved the group because Iloved our harmonizing together,
but I like being a soloist too.
Now I'm a soloist keeping theJones Girls legacy alive.
(50:49):
So I have some girls that havebeen with me for about 13 years
that I trained, that are mybackground singers.
Everybody talks about mybackground singers because they
are awesome and they keep thatharmony going so that I can do
my lead thing and keep peoplegoing down memory lane with all
(51:11):
of our hits.
You know from you Gonna Make MeLove Somebody Else to I Just
Love the man to Dance.
Turn the Romance to Nights OverEgypt, to who Can I Run To?
And all of that's in my show.
I tell people I said you can godown memory lane with the
(51:32):
sounds and the songs of theJones Girls.
Sanya (51:37):
Can you do me a favor?
It'll be an early birthday gift, my birthday isn't until July,
but I want my gift now.
All right, it'll be an earlybirthday gift, my birthday isn't
until July, but I want my giftnow.
Can you sing just one line ofdo you get enough, please Do you
?
Shirley (51:53):
get enough, get enough, get enough, get enough.
Sanya (51:58):
Love I want to know baby, do you, do you?
Yes?
An early birthday gift?
Oh my gosh, we can go home now.
You just made my night.
The next thing that I want totalk about because so many
(52:26):
people are navigating loss andwe've mentioned your sisters a
number of times Like we can'ttalk about the Jones girls
without talking about your twosisters, right Now that they've
transitioned.
What has death taught you?
Shirley (52:37):
Death has really taught me to be more appreciative of
life because you especially nowit is so many people are leaving
here and I miss my sisters, butit's so hard to explain to
(53:01):
people every single show sincethey have passed.
I feel them with me, I feeltheir energy, I feel their
spirits and I have not had onebad show since they passed and I
(53:21):
always get with them and askthem to be there for me and them
and my mom.
It's like I see them holdingeach other and watching me and I
feel that on stage and that'swhy I say I have to keep going
(53:44):
with keeping this legacy alive,because I'm not doing it.
I'm doing it for them as muchas for myself.
Sanya (53:51):
Yes, and you've successfully done that, because
in 2023, you released areflection album honoring your
sisters.
What was that process like?
Was it therapeutic for you orwas it triggering?
Shirley (54:04):
It was both, but it was more therapeutic.
And in fact, the title track,pj, who was just in here.
He and I wrote that he's anexcellent producer.
He and Cam they're writing anddoing they've done several of
our songs hip hop style, whichhas really brought us a whole
(54:25):
new generation of friends andfans too.
So it was very therapeutic.
It was something I had beenwanting to do and I picked and
chose every single song becauseit had something to do with some
point in the life with mysisters.
Sanya (54:47):
Got it.
I'm loving to hear the storiesof how everything is paying it
forward and the pipeline toaccess your mom, you and your
sisters Diana Ross, escape, nowyour nephew.
I love to see people pay itforward.
I, I work in education and um,whenever I'm doing something for
(55:08):
students and they're just likewell, miss hudson, how can I
repay you?
And I'm like you can repay meby paying it forward.
Yes, because, especially amarginalized community,
sometimes the doorway is very,very narrow.
Maybe one person can get in andI do think that it's a
responsibility for us to reachback and pull someone else up
with us.
So I'm glad to hear that yourlegacy has been continued.
(55:32):
It's not stopping.
Shirley (55:35):
No, with my son and my son and my nephew.
They're continuing it on, butthey both got Val val, son and
my son.
They both are 35.
They're four months apartthey're more like brothers than
anything.
Sanya (55:51):
Yes, nice, nice, nice, and they're already in the music
industry and they're supportingyou oh yes absolutely nice,
nice.
So who do you listen to today'smusic?
Who are you listening to?
Shirley (56:04):
Oh, my goodness, Lettucey, I love her, I love
Lettucey.
Sanya (56:08):
Yes, but with Lettucey I don't think that she is getting
the spotlight that she deserves.
Shirley (56:17):
She is now because you know she's out there.
She's doing great.
I listen to Kim.
I like this girl.
What's her name?
Jones.
Her last name is Jones.
Sanya (56:33):
Coco.
Shirley (56:33):
Jones, coco Jones, I really like her.
I listen to a lot of jazz too.
I like some of the, some of the, the young, the young, you know
, the young people.
But uh, I really listen a lotto a lot of european music
(56:54):
artists too, because I go overto europe a lot, you know yeah,
I heard that american artistsare really, really appreciated
and valued Absolutely.
I'm headed over there inNovember, and then again in May,
and then again in June of nextyear.
Sanya (57:16):
Yeah, so I'm always over in Europe.
You know Shirley Jones is nolonger working and she is just
someone from the past to knowthat you still have a very
vibrant and active career.
Shirley (57:28):
Oh yeah, and I just did so the Soul Train Cruise,
capital City Jazz and I'm work.
Well, I'll be on quite a fewtours next year.
So I work quite a bit in theStates and will'll be working a
lot more next year on a coupleof tours I can't talk about it
yet because the contractshaven't been signed but we're
(57:50):
going to be all over the Statesnext year.
Sanya (57:53):
I love it.
I love it.
So, now that we briefly talkedabout this new era of music and
the current artists that you'relistening to, I just want to ask
you a question related tocurrent events this whole Sean P
Diddy fiasco.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Shirley (58:15):
Well, I knew nothing about his parties.
I had never heard of him.
The kids, my kids and PJ and myson they've been filling me in
on all this, but I do know that,coming out of an abusive
marriage to see him I saw thatvideo where he was kicking that
(58:39):
woman like that I lost allrespect for him because I was in
an abusive marriage and men areautomatically stronger than
women and for you to do that toa woman, you have no respect for
me.
I never knew that much abouthim.
(59:01):
He was nobody that I listenedto or anything, because that's a
whole different generation.
But it just goes to show youthat if you're not using your
money and fame to uplift otherpeople and you're using it to
(59:24):
and you're using it to, as yousay, have freak-offs and parties
and not really doing anythingto, as you were saying, pay it
forward, then you kind ofdeserve everything that happens
to you.
That's you know, and it's sad tosay, but he created this and
(59:46):
karma is something else.
Cause when you mistreat and youdo the kinds of things that
he's accused of, if, if he'sfound guilty of that and it
looks like he, looks like theyhave a lot on there then
deserves what's happeningbecause he planted those seeds.
(01:00:07):
That's why you have to be verycareful how you treat people,
how you handle absolutelyeverything, because if it's not
of a mind of helping somebody oruplifting somebody else, but
you're like these women thatthey say they were trafficking,
you know that those kinds ofthings you deserve absolutely
(01:00:30):
everything that comes your waybecause you know you don't do
anything to people that can'thelp themselves.
You, you, you.
I just believe in helpingothers, not hurting anybody or
using people or taking advantageof people or be harming people
(01:00:51):
in any kind of way.
Sanya (01:00:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm glad that you sharedyour opinion about that and you
were very transparent and honest.
I want you to just share ateachable moment or a lesson,
because you are a survivor of DV.
How did you get out of thatsituation?
Shirley (01:01:11):
It took me a while because I had had my son and he,
you know, and he was like mom,please stay in this marriage,
you know.
Stay, because he wanted to, heloved his dad, he loved me.
But I say to anybody, if ithappens once, don't.
(01:01:33):
And now I tell these women, youknow, hey, I was there.
I should have left.
I ended up.
After 23 years of marriage.
I should have left.
(01:01:54):
I ended up.
After 23 years of marriage.
I finally had got to the pointwhere I felt strong enough to
leave, to get out, and I didstay because of my son, you know
, until he graduated.
That's what he wanted, you know, and I I did take that abuse,
but I wouldn't recommend or tellany other woman to do that,
(01:02:14):
because you're only harmingyourself when you do that,
because if it happens one time,it's not going to change, it's
going to continue to happen aslong as you keep letting them
get away with that.
So that's one thing I will.
I tell women that and I'vegiven talks about that Don't,
(01:02:35):
don't, don't fall for theokey-doke.
I did and I'm telling you fromexperience please don't fall for
it, because it's not going tochange.
Sanya (01:02:46):
Well, thank you for sharing your opinion and your
story.
What advice do you have foremerging artists?
Shirley (01:02:54):
Learn the business so you can make sure that you can,
after all the fame andeverything that you're still
locked in, can, after all thefame and everything that you
still locked in.
Like you know, a lot of mylivelihood is, of course,
singing still now, but I stillget royalties and things that
have been set up from us knowingand learning about the business
(01:03:18):
of music.
Learn about the business andit's a completely different
business today than it was 40,45 years ago.
So you know a lot of it isstreaming and I'm involved in a
lot of the different things thatare happening in Congress for
(01:03:39):
us old school artists to evenget more of our deserved monies
and royalties from radio fromback in the day, so that you
know all that's in Congress now,because of certain people like
(01:04:00):
Ray Parker Jr, who's a friend ofmine and you know just, and
SAG-AFTRA, realizing that a lotof us we still aren't getting
nowhere near what we reallyshould be getting.
But there's a law in Congressnow that hopefully should be.
It's been there for about sevenor eight years.
(01:04:22):
The Senate has passed it.
We're just waiting on the Housenow where we're going to be
getting money back from the 70,from 1970 up through 1986, I
believe From radio.
Sanya (01:04:40):
Deserve every single penny.
I know that you're going to getit.
Are you on social media?
Shirley (01:04:47):
Yes, shirley Jones Girl .
Shirley Jones of the JonesGirls Is Facebook and Instagram
and threads and X is JonesShirley without the Y.
And then my website isShirleyJonesGirl no S dot com.
Sanya (01:05:09):
Well, look at you on social media.
Yes, all right.
So I'm going to follow you onsocial media and I'm asking you
to follow that Absolutely,please do.
Shirley (01:05:21):
Okay, well, ms Jones follow that?
Sanya (01:05:25):
Yes, absolutely, please do.
Okay.
Well, ms Jones, thank you somuch for such a robust
conversation you made thislittle girl I'm actually five
years old inside today oh, somuch for making me happy.
I even told my father I'm likedad, guess who I'm having a
conversation with today?
Well, he was truly, truly happyfor me as well.
So thank you.
Shirley (01:05:42):
And thank you and give your father my love and I'm glad
you were cleaning back in theday.
So many women tell me theirparents made them clean to our
music.
Yes, yes and hey, that's good.
I know it was a lot of cleanhouses back then.
Yes, clean houses back.
Sanya (01:06:02):
Yes, and now I'm singing your music to my daughter so
that she can know about theJones girls.
Shirley (01:06:09):
Oh well, that is so wonderful.
Thank you so much, I appreciateit.
Sanya (01:06:14):
This is very, very important.
Miss Jones, you've been amazing.
Take care, and I'm going to befollowing you and I'll see you
on social media.
Shirley (01:06:21):
Alrighty, take care.
God bless, take care.
Sanya (01:06:23):
God bless, take care, god bless, omg.
So there you have it, missJones of the Jones girls.
That was such an amazingconversation.
It really was the pipeline toaccess.
It didn't just start with herwalking into a room no, no, no,
no, no.
It started off Her mother.
Her walking into a room?
(01:06:44):
No, no, no, no, no.
It started off.
Her mother was a famous gospelsinger.
She saw talent in her daughtersand said you know what?
Y'all going to come over hereand think background for me.
We're going to harmonize, we'regoing to practice.
You think you're going outside.
You ain't going outside, you'regoing gonna sit right in front
of this piano and we're going topractice.
Okay, so then they grow uptheir singing.
(01:07:08):
Background for diana ross,teddy penegrins, aretha franklin
so glad that she recanted somestories about diana ross.
We don't really know too muchabout her personality.
So to learn that Diana Ross wasinstrumental and so supportive
and these girls were 12 yearsold, 12 years old with voices
(01:07:31):
like grown women.
Okay, they get signed to amajor record label.
That doesn't work out.
Eventually, that doesn't workout.
Eventually, shirley Jones goessolo Hit song.
They've been on Soul Train, Idon't know how many.
Let me tell you something.
Back in the day, you knew anartist was successful when you
(01:07:55):
turned on Soul Train and theywere the featured performer.
Soul Train Not once, but Ithink she said about three times
.
She and her sisters were onSoul Train, navigating, lost.
She lost both of her sistersand her mom Pay it Forward.
She decided to remember them bycontinuing their legacy by
(01:08:19):
creating a reflection album, bycreating a reflection album.
Now her nephew and her son arealso in the music industry
helping Ms Jones write music.
The pipeline to access.
So this is what I want to leaveyou all with.
You know, I forgot to put thisup there.
Let's do this real quick.
(01:08:40):
My bad, I told you I've beengoing for a man.
Now I'm back with the jumper.
Okay, one thing I want to leaveyou with is if you get into a
room, if you get into a room,don't get comfortable like mama.
(01:09:01):
I done made it.
No, no, no, no, no.
It is your responsibility toturn back and pull someone else
into the room with you, someonewho looks like you, someone who
looks like us, someone who black, like this and not like that.
You see this, what I don't know, but I digress, I digress.
(01:09:23):
The pipeline to access is so,so important, especially in
marginalized communities.
I cannot repeat this enough.
So make sure that you staycontinued.
Make sure you stay continued.
Make sure you continue tuningin to Sonya on air, where I not
only talk to celebrities.
(01:09:44):
It's not about salaciousness,it's about their pivotal moments
and milestones and how they'vecreated or benefited from
pipelines to access.
Do me a favor make sure yousubscribe and I'll be back with
more.
Sanya on Air Smooches dolls.
What is the purpose?
What am I trying to do?
People are giving you keys,giving you gems, creating
pipelines to access, talking toinfluential people icons about
how they've done it and sharingthe tips so that you can enter
(00:30):
into that space.
One thing that I do know aboutmarginalized communities is that
the Pipeline to Access is oftenlimited.
Now, if you cleaned up onSaturday mornings and your
parents played old school music,then this show is for you.
This time, that round ofapplause is just for you because
(00:59):
you made it to another all newseason of Sonia on Air.
I know I know, before you sayanything, I know I've been gone
for a little bit, but I wasprotecting my peace by any means
necessary, and sometimes youjust have to be still.
Sometimes you just have to bestill, and I was still before I
(01:20):
made this pivot, but I'm backwith an all new celebrity
interview.
So before I tell you abouttoday's guest, nothing's changed
.
Do a quick favor Subscribe.
Make sure you subscribe toevery Sonya on air streaming
platform.
Ok, so Sonya streams acrossjust about every major platform,
but if you're watching this onYouTube, make sure that you
(01:42):
press the notification bell thatway, every time I upload an all
new Sonya on air celebrityinterview.
You'll be the first ones toknow.
So during my time away, I hadsome time to think.
I had to think about thisplatform in particular, like
what is the purpose?
What am I trying to do?
There's so much salaciousnessin the entire world not just on
(02:05):
the internet, but the entireworld and there's few people,
few people.
I won't say there isn't anyone,but there's very few people who
are giving you keys, giving yougems, creating pipelines to
access, talking to influentialpeople icons about how they've
(02:25):
done it and sharing the tips sothat you can enter into that
space.
One thing that I do know aboutmarginalized communities is that
the pipeline to access is oftenlimited.
It's so limited that sometimesit just seems non-existent.
So this is what I want to dowhile I have celebrities in my
sign on your studios, I justwant to talk about their pivotal
(02:47):
moments.
I want to talk about how theyhave benefited from pipelines of
access or created pipelines ofaccess themselves.
So let me tell you about today'sguest.
But did you subscribe yet?
Did you subscribe?
Did you hit the notificationbell?
I got all day.
I made y'all wait for a newshow, so I got all day.
(03:09):
Okay, today's guest.
I'm excited.
Let me tell you, this is a tripdown memory lane just for me and
, I'm sure, other peoplewatching this show.
So, if you're watching the show, this is who's this show for?
This show is for the classy,sophisticated woman who might be
a mother or she isn't, but shewas born during a certain era of
(03:32):
hip hop.
Ok, we'll see age, but she wasborn during, during a certain
era of hip hop, certain era ofmusic where we grew up listening
to songs in the 50s, 60s and70s as we cleaned up on
Saturdays.
Now, if you cleaned up onSaturday mornings and your
parents played old school music,then this show is for you,
(03:56):
because I'm reaching back to somany legends, so many icons
across the entertainmentindustry, just to remind you all
.
They're still here and we needto pay homage and also give them
their flowers, because this newgeneration of entertainers, of
influencers they really don'tknow their history, child.
No, they don't, but Sonia Oneris going to give it to them
(04:19):
every time I have a celebrityinterview.
So, now that you've subscribed,right, right, okay, let me tell
you about today's guest.
Now, every Saturday morning,when I was leaving because my
parents had me cleaning okay, onmy knees, hands and knees just
scrubbing, just scrubbing.
(04:40):
One thing if you go tosomebody's bathroom and if you
look at the toilet, you know thebase of the toilet.
If it's dirty, leave, run, run.
Ok, I digress.
Today's guest, shirley Jones.
How many of you are familiarwith the Jones girls?
Me?
(05:02):
Ok, once, if you forgot,because you know, sometimes,
sometimes we forget.
I know I'm at a certain,sometimes I may forget.
So shirley jones is one thirdof the trio, the jones girls.
Right, she was the lead singerand her other two sisters made
up the other part of the trio.
Now, did you know this?
(05:23):
Escape was not the first groupto sing the R&B classic who Can
I Run To.
The original singers of thatsong, who Can I Run To, was the
Jones Girls.
Did you know that?
Did you know that?
So, once again, the Jones girlscreated the pipeline to access
(05:48):
so that Escape could make thatsong like legendary.
Who doesn't know Escape'srendition of who Can I Run To?
It's a classic song that spansso many generations.
So you need to know where musicoriginated from.
And also that song, who Can IRun To, that was originated by
the Jones Girls.
Guess how many times it wassampled?
(06:09):
49 times.
49 times that amazing song wassampled.
Now, another artist who sampledthat song was Faith Evans.
I didn't even know, didn't evenknow.
So you know her song, I Don'tNeed it from her Faith the First
Lady album.
Lately I've been wonderingYou're out here hugging the
(06:34):
block and I'm here alone.
Again, that's the Jones Girls.
The Jones Girls.
The original song was calledNights Over Egypt.
So many fun facts and I justgave you a few.
So we're going to take a fewcommercial breaks and I'm just
going to jump into thisconversation with Shirley Jones.
(06:54):
Make sure you stay tuned, makesure you subscribe, make sure
you hit the notification bell.
Be right back.
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Now back to Sonia on air.
Okay, so the focus of thisentire conversation is going to
(07:41):
be about your experience in themusic industry and the doors
that were opened for you and thedoors that you opened for
others.
Okay, Okay.
So let me first tell you it isreally an honor to have you in
my studio because, as a childgrowing up in Brooklyn, New York
, I'm from the generation wherethe kids cleaned every single
(08:02):
Saturday while the parentsplayed music.
Shirley (08:06):
Yeah.
Sanya (08:07):
This is how I was introduced to the Jones girls,
but I don't know if you heard mesinging some of your lyrics.
Yes, I did, because for me,like I said, it's nostalgic and
I want to make sure that I'mintroducing my daughter, who's
29, to an amazing generation ofmusic and artists such as
yourself.
(08:27):
So what was it like growing upin Detroit and were you born in
the fifties?
Yes, I was.
Shirley (08:36):
What was it like growing up in Detroit?
Grew up in the sixties Okay, itwas great, I mean it was was
Motown.
So one of the things I mean youwould see people like Marvin
Gaye you know we all kind of andSmokey Robinson, you would see
(08:56):
them, you know.
And my mom was a gospel singerso we traveled around A lot With
her.
She was a very popular gospelsinger.
In fact she was the first Blackgospel singer that RCA Records
signed.
They signed her the same year,the same day that they signed
(09:17):
Little Richard.
This was before I was born andso that had to be.
I guess, early 50s, 1950, inthe 50s Then, with it being
Motown, they had what was calledthe Motown Review.
Every Christmas.
All of the kids we would gothere because the show would be
(09:42):
like five or six acts Some yearsthe Supremes, the Temptations,
gladys Knight and the Pips andwe would all put on our
Christmas garb.
It was always a day or twoafter Christmas and they would
have shows all day long.
And so it was great growing upin Motown.
Sanya (10:02):
I can't even imagine just leaving home or getting dressed
, leaving home and going to seeartists such as Smokey Robinson
and just the whole Motown stuff.
Shirley (10:15):
It was amazing.
And then when we actuallystarted singing doing background
, it was for Holland DozierHolland.
Barry Gordy gave Holland DozierHolland their own label in
Detroit.
And maybe I was about 12 whenwe started doing background for
(10:40):
Music Merchant, for theirartists.
Like we did background for Freeto Pain Honeycomb, we did some
background work for GeneralJohnson and what's the name of
their group?
General Johnson, those guys,general Johnson, those guys.
(11:11):
And then they were so impressedwith our background singing
that they even cut a couple oflocal records.
They were local hits in Detroit.
And you were 12?
I was 12.
, yeah, but when our first localhit came out, I was 12 or 13.
Sanya (11:24):
Yes, oh my gosh.
But let's go back a little bit,because I remember here in New
York there was a famous Broadwaymusical called Mama I Want to
Sing.
Well, you took that literallylike Mama I Want to Sing.
Your mom was a famous gospelsinger.
When did she first realize thatyou and your sisters had talent
(11:46):
?
Shirley (11:46):
Well, it came in steps.
We're stair steps.
We're really close in age.
So for a while it was just mymom and I.
And then one day she heardBrenda.
Brenda just started harmonizingto a song that my mom and I
were singing, and when she didthat my mom put her in the show
(12:09):
too.
Then it was my mom, Brenda andmyself.
Then a little later on, one dayshe heard Valerie, and that's
when she really realized thenthat she had something.
And because she was the musicdirector at our home church as
well, she also, she startedtraining our voices, you know,
(12:33):
teaching us how to blend.
She was a master on blending byhaving, like me, having the
really high voice.
She would have me pull backsome and teach Val and Brenda
how to, you know, come up some.
And we practiced every, prettymuch every day, Like most kids,
(12:57):
would you know they would.
Their parents would say well,you guys can stay out and play
till the lights come.
You know, the streetlights comeon.
My mom, we could stay out andplay until she decided that it
was time for us to rehearse andshe would call us in and whether
the streetlights were on or not, we would have to go in and
rehearse.
(13:17):
And we had a big old piano, abig picture window at the front
of our house, and that's wherethe piano was and we'd be in
there rehearsing, wanting to beoutside with our friends.
But then, but then the uh songsounded so good that the friends
, our friends, would begathering outside cause they
could hear us through the window.
(13:38):
And so it was fun.
And then we got to the pointwhere we enjoyed rehearsing with
my mom because we knew, youknow, that we kind of had
something special, because wewere so young and all these
adults were wanting us to dobackground for them Holland,
Dozier, Holland and we were like, OK, so we must have something
(14:01):
going on.
So that's how that all started.
Sanya (14:05):
Wow, that's amazing.
You know, when people see suchiconic artists such as yourself,
they often wonder how did theyget started?
Your pipeline was createdthrough your mother.
She was already in the industry, introduced it to you and your
sisters.
You started off becomingbackground singers.
Now, initially, when singersenter the music industry, maybe
(14:27):
they want to be lead singers orhave their own group.
Shirley (14:33):
Were you and your sisters OK with being background
singers?
No, I mean, we enjoy beingbackground singers, but we also
were hoping and praying that wewould one day be able to have
recordings.
The few recordings that we putout with Holland, georgia,
holland, of course, led toCurtis Mayfield hearing us,
(14:55):
which led us to Chicago on hislabel by the time I was maybe 16
.
It was before I graduated fromhigh school and he recorded
several records.
In fact there's an album outthat's rare.
(15:17):
I have a CD copy that someonegave me one time when I was over
in Europe, called the JonesGirls, the Early Years, and that
takes you all the way back toMusic Merchant with Holland,
georgia, holland and CurtisMayfield.
Sanya (15:29):
Wow, yeah, that's such a robust life and we're only at
the age of 16.
How did your peers treat you inhigh school?
Did they treat you like thisbig time celebrity?
Shirley (15:42):
Oh, yeah, my mom, once we had that first local record
out, we no longer walked toschool.
She took us and picked us upbecause she was a nurse and she
worked midnight.
So she would take us and pickus up.
And Val you know in fact in ourunsung a couple of our best
friends who were Val's protector, because Val was always very,
(16:09):
very shy and consequently a lotof girls would kind of bully her
they wouldn't bully Brenda or Ibecause we were kind of right
up in there, you bully me, youbetter look out.
But Val was and a couple ofgirls always said they were in
our sun because they were herprotectors and they would tell
(16:31):
those girls hey, if you're going, you know you got to come
through me to get to Valerie.
So that's the way they handledthat.
That's the way they handledthat.
But yeah, they knew, in fact Iwas in the.
It was a group of like theeight singers.
(16:55):
We were called the troubadoursin high school and we sang all
around town and I was a memberof that group too.
So people treated us.
They just love to hear us sing.
Sanya (17:05):
Wow, that is amazing.
But I also read somewhere.
You know you mentioned a fewpeople that you sung background
for, but you were also singingbackground for Diana Ross,
aretha Franklin and Teddy Grass,teddy Pendergrass.
What is your most memorablemoment?
Singing background with DianaRoss?
Shirley (17:27):
Well, we did Diana Ross for three years.
When Holland, dozier, hollandand Motown moved to California,
(17:50):
they would still fly us in fromDetroit because Valerie had not
finished high school yet, I wasin college, brenda was in
college, wayne State Universityso they still couldn't find any
background singers out there inCalifornia where they moved.
So they would fly us in duringthe summer and we would do
recordings for different people.
So one day McKinley Jackson,who was kind of managing us at
the time, after we had finisheda session, he said you know,
(18:10):
Diana Ross is looking for somebackground singers and you,
ladies, she's been turningeverybody down.
And we said well, hey, you know, we're from Detroit, so that
should give us an in.
And he said okay, y'all want totry.
And we said yeah.
So we, um, we thought we weresaying, we thought we were going
(18:30):
up there to audition for hermusic director gil, a guy by the
name of gil askey, and her roadmanager, a guy by the name of
don peak.
So we went up this hill, loyalcanyon, all the way up to this
big, beautiful house and westarted singing.
We had practiced Ain't noMountain High Enough, because
(18:51):
those were her hot songs back in76, I think those were the hot
songs that she had out.
And we Ain't no Mountain HighEnough and Reach Out and Touch
Somebody's Hand.
So we were standing around thepiano.
Ain't no mountain high enoughand reach out and touch
somebody's hand.
So we were standing around thepiano singing those songs that
we had practiced and we noticedthat Gil and Don weren't saying
(19:15):
anything.
They were just kind of lookingat each other with these smiles
on their faces while we weresinging.
And then all of a sudden, downthis long hallway comes Diana
Ross, and we almost fell out andthe only words out of her mouth
was you guys are terrific, canyou get passports?
We're going to Europe?
And we looked at each other.
(19:36):
Brenda ran to the bathroom.
She said she had to throw upbecause she couldn't believe
that we were actually that.
That was Diana Ross.
Throw up because she couldn'tbelieve that we were actually,
that.
That was Diana Ross.
I mean, if you have to rememberwhen we were little girls,
that's who we idolized theSupremes, martha Reese and the
Vandellas.
And every time we would seethem on the Ed Sullivan show, we
would beg my mom, who was alsoa seamstress, to make us you
(19:59):
know, can you make us thoseoutfits and she put us something
together similar.
She wasn't that good of asinger.
She did okay with putting stufftogether for us.
So that's how we got with herand we're the only or at least
we were the first backgroundsingers for her that after the
(20:21):
European tour she came to us andshe was getting ready to do her
yearly residency at Vegas andthen Reno, because they were
doing residencies way back inthe day, diana Ross did Vegas
for three weeks every year forthe three years that we were
with her and she came to us andshe said everybody's talking
(20:45):
about you guys and, um, so whatI'm going to do?
Uh, because she was not withMotown at the time I think that
was when she had left and shewas with Warner brothers.
She said I'm going, I want youguys to pick a song, choose a
song and I want you to learn it.
That you know, and I want youto do it.
You know I changed clothes five, six times in my show.
(21:08):
I want to introduce you to theworld, and so we chose If I Ever
Lose this Heaven, which was onQuincy Jones' album way back in
the day.
And that's exactly what she didEvery time, no matter where we
went after that European tour,she would say all right, I'm
(21:28):
getting ready to go change myclothes and I want you guys to
check out my background.
Singers, aren't they awesome,check them out.
And then she said girls, ladiesand gentlemen, the Jones
sisters.
She always called us the Jonessisters.
Sanya (21:42):
Nice.
Such an amazing story, butstill so young.
Who was protecting?
Shirley (21:49):
you.
My mom was with us most of thetime, up until when Val turned
18, mckinley Jackson, who wasmanaging us and who I was also
dating at that time.
He was the producer andarranger for Holland Jones, your
Holland, so he protected us andhe was out there with us.
Sanya (22:11):
So and I want to talk about that mixing business with
pleasure how was it like datingyour manager, and was that a
recipe for disaster?
No, we.
Shirley (22:21):
In fact he.
He's responsible for us gettingwith Diana Ross, he's
responsible for getting us onall those background sessions
with Aretha and Dionne Warwickand Norman Connors and Teddy
Pendergrass and Helen Reddy andCher.
I mean we did background for anarray of different people in
(22:45):
the music industry because atthat time there were really only
two groups, both family groupsit was us and the Waters, and
they're still very, very popularout there in California that
people wanted.
They wanted a certain sound andthen, plus, we created a lot of
(23:08):
our backgrounds and they knewthat too.
So that's how McKinley wassolely responsible for getting
us all that work and getting uswith Diana Ross.
Sanya (23:21):
Nice.
You don't find that.
Too often you find peoplesaying don't mix the business.
With pleasure I've heard somany groups fall apart because
someone was dating the managerand there was some sort of
preferential treatment to onesinger.
So I'm glad to hear that yourstory didn't turn out like the
rest.
But there was something elsethat you said about you know
(23:42):
you're being a background singerand you were also in school.
Why were you still in schoolwhen you were still like this
big time celebrity at that point?
Was it because education wasvery important in your household
?
Shirley (23:56):
Oh yeah, it was.
In fact, even once we moved toCalifornia, I changed my credits
to UCLA for, you know, becauseeducation was always very
important.
You know because my mom used toalways tell us she was a reader
(24:17):
, and I was a reader too.
You know, I just readeverything that you have to
learn, especially your history,and you need to be educated
because you need to know thebusiness, you need to know
everything, and you come.
All of those things come frombeing educated and from reading
(24:39):
and finding facts for yourself.
That way, you're not subject tofinding facts for yourself.
That way, you're not subject toother people controlling your
mind.
Sanya (24:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Shirley (24:58):
So let's talk about the money back then Was the money
enough to really take care ofyou, your sisters and your
family?
Oh yeah, diana paid very well.
Family oh yeah, diana paid verywell.
And doing background sessionswas we were paid very well.
And the beauty, the one thingthat she did that I like, was
that we traveled with her forthose three years, at least
(25:19):
seven months out of every year,but during those other five
months when she was not working,she did allow us to do
background singing for otherpeople, because she knew that
during those five months, yes,she paid us extremely well, but
during those five months when weweren't working, she knew that
(25:42):
we still needed to make a living.
So that's what she did allow usand that's when we really
started singing background for awhole lot of other people, like
Aretha and everybody.
Sanya (25:57):
Wow, do you still keep in touch with Diana Ross?
Shirley (26:01):
I have not seen her in maybe six, seven, seven years.
Yeah, okay, since both of mysisters, you know, passed, I
haven't seen her.
Sanya (26:13):
Got it, got it.
What was it like working withAretha Franklin.
Shirley (26:18):
Well, we knew her because we had sang.
My mom knew her dad and we hadsang at her dad's church as
little girls.
Sanya (26:25):
Wow.
Shirley (26:26):
Yeah, because Aretha really she and Kenny Gamble
really were pushing for us tonot only do the music you know,
she did the Sparkle soundtrackbut she wanted us in the movie
and we auditioned to sing aswell as be the actresses in
(26:47):
there, but we did not get it, uh, but, and she was quite upset
about that, and the only reasonwhy we're not singing background
on that is because kenny gamblewas quite upset and felt that
it was a light-skinned art, youknow, because we were browner
sisters.
That's the only reason why wecouldn't get the, because, I
(27:09):
mean, we out sang all the girlsIrene, kara and all of them and
we were natural sisters.
So he was upset when we didn'tget the part and they wanted us
to still do the background andhe said no, you know, they got
other to still do the backgroundand he said no, wow, they got
other things to do and we werebusy during that time anyway,
(27:30):
because You're Gonna Make MeLove Somebody Else had become a
massive hit.
So we were out on tour with theOJs, so it all worked out okay.
Sanya (27:39):
Wow, well, you know, you talked about colorism just a
little bit.
Wow, well, you know, you talkedabout colorism just a little
bit.
Did you feel as if you and yourgroup weren't selected?
Because, oh, absolutely, wefelt that.
Shirley (27:51):
Absolutely.
We felt that yes.
Sanya (27:53):
How was colorism really handled back then in the music
industry?
Was it like a normal thingwhere if you were a darker
complexion woman that you knewthat you would kind of be
overlooked?
Shirley (28:03):
woman that you knew that you would kind of be
overlooked.
Yeah, I mean, and it happened.
It happened and it's stillprevalent today.
I mean, you know, and then youhave those that you know
brighten their skin, you know,like Diana.
Diana was much browner, butthat's one thing my mother
instilled in me, because I'm thedarkest of the three.
She said you are beautiful justas you are your complexion, and
(28:27):
I've just always known that.
I feel that.
And one thing when differentthings happen because of
colorism, I'm like, well, theycan't out-sing me.
So that's one thing for sure.
Sanya (28:40):
Well, right now.
Yeah, and then you mentionedmusic legend Kenny Gamble.
Now he was.
He signed you to Philadelphiainternational records.
Talk about that, the day thatyou signed your first major
record contract.
Shirley (29:01):
Well, you know it was.
It was a blessing because wewere at the Schubert Theater
with Diana and she had told usshe said Gamblin' Huff's going
to be in the audience tonight,lady.
So you know, put an extralittle thing on your song when I
(29:21):
call you guys down.
And of course we did, becauseat that time Philly
International was the hottestlabel.
They were hotter than Motown.
It was the OJs and Billy Pauland the Stylistics and Teddy
Pendergrass and Harold Melvin'sBlue Notes and Gene Karn and
(29:41):
Phyllis Hyman and Patti LaBelle.
And we were like, when theycame back to our dressing room
after her show and they asked us, they said are you, ladies,
signed with anybody?
You guys are terrific.
And we're like no.
And they said, well, would youlike to be a part of Philly
(30:02):
International?
Because I believe six monthsearlier they had just parted
ways with the three degrees.
So we were like, absolutely so.
We went back home to Cal we wereall living in California at the
time and our attorneys got withtheir attorneys and we signed
our first contract and withinthree months we were flown there
(30:26):
and they always put us up inapartments.
They call them Airbnbs now, butthey would put us up in these
apartments because we were therefrom the beginning of the album
until back in the day.
There was a whole concept foreach album cover and how every
so we were there from thebeginning of that to the very
(30:49):
end, and that usually took aboutthree months.
So that's what we did, and we,the first day when we pulled
into 309 South Broad Street andacross the street was this
restaurant called the Fantasy,and so Gamble came, they gave us
(31:10):
our schedule, because it waslike school.
Every day we would get withthis producer, dexter Wanzel,
then McFadden and Whitehead, andwe would spend an hour or two
every day with the differentproducers and they were
presenting songs and it was up,you know, and then we would all
(31:30):
decide which songs we wereactually going to record and we
would record the ones that wethought were best, and then
Kenny and Leon would suggestsongs too.
But I remember that first dayafter they gave us our schedule
for the week, gamble said well,ladies, go across the street and
(31:52):
I'm going to treat you todinner at the Fantasy.
And we went across the streetand I mean, who was there?
I mean they all were there towelcome us Eddie LaVert, the OJs
, teddy, let's see Billy, paul,gene Karn.
They were all there at the atthe Fantasy Restaurant and we
(32:13):
were like kids in a candy store.
We could not believe that wewere now with a label of with
such popular, incredible singingartists and we became family
after that.
But I mean, eddie and Walter tothis day are like brothers
(32:34):
because they were the first onesto take us out on the road.
So it was just a beautifulexperience being around so many
talented musicians and artists,wow.
Sanya (32:48):
I would love to have been a fly on the wall around this,
but you mentioned earlier on,you know, singing background and
receiving some form ofnotoriety or fame.
But then, now you're signed tothis big record label and you
and your sisters released yourfirst single You're Gonna Make
Me Love Somebody Else.
(33:09):
What did this fame now feellike?
Shirley (33:13):
Man, we could not believe it.
The first time we heard it onthe radio we had gone back to LA
and KJLH played it.
We learned about the charts andwe were watching it go up the
charts but we hadn't heard ityet because it had not yet hit
California.
And I remember driving on thefreeway and they KJLH, which is
(33:38):
Stevie Wonder Station.
They said the guy said here's anew.
The guy said here's a newup-and-coming jam by a new group
that used to be Diana Ross'sbackground singers, the Jones
Girls.
And then I heard it and I waslike oh my God, I couldn't wait
to get home and to tell Brendaand Valerie that I had heard it.
(34:00):
And you know we didn't havecell phones back then, so I just
had to speed on the freeway toget back to the apartment
because we were, all you know,in the same apartment building.
And I told him.
I said I heard the record today.
And then it got to the pointwhere we would turn the radio on
every day to make sure we heardit and have our friends call in
(34:23):
to, you know, request it.
So it was a great experience.
Sanya (34:28):
That sounds like an amazing experience.
How many albums did you andyour sisters make with Philly
International?
Four, we did four with them.
Four, and during that time thatyou were on that record label,
were you happy?
Shirley (34:43):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I mean because Kenny and Leon,they were absolutely great.
I mean we came out the box withyou Gonna Make Me Love Somebody
Else and then also on thatalbum was who Can I Run To?
Which was the B-side?
That was the B-side of youGonna Make Me Love Somebody Else
.
Can we pause?
Sanya (35:04):
Let's pause for a second, because people need to
understand that, Because peoplethink that Escape was the first
group to think who can I run to?
And no, no, no, no, no, it wasthe Jones girls.
No, the Jones sisters.
Right.
Shirley (35:19):
And I tell people every time in my show, because who
Can I Run To happens to be myfavorite song bar none, you know
.
So I tell people in my show andback in, well, when, and I tell
Escape, I've met the girls andthey have said we hope we did it
justice, and I said, oh, youguys did a great job.
(35:40):
I said, and then, what you did,you brought a whole bunch of
new fans back to us.
I always came out in seven,nineteen, seventy, nine, because
it was the B side of you'regoing to make me love somebody
else, because it was the B-sideof you're going to make me love
somebody else.
So consequently, with it beinga B-side, it did not get as much
airplay until Escape did it.
(36:01):
And then back in 1995, when theyput it out, the disc jockeys,
you know, they were like, ah,they would play Escape's version
and they would say, okay, foryou young people, now this is
1995, telling the young peoplethen this is not a new song,
(36:21):
this song was done 16 years agoby the Jones Girls and they
would play our version.
And then, you know, peoplewould call in and say which
version they like.
So over the years people haveknown.
And then, when Escape did theirunsung, they showed us and gave
us credit.
And then we did our unsung.
And so a lot of people know,most people know now that we did
(36:48):
it first.
And those that don't't know, ifthey show up to one of my shows,
they definitely know beforethey leave, because I always
tell them that I said and thishappens to be my favorite jones
girl song- yeah, but who can Irun to escape?
Sanya (37:05):
was wasn't the only group that sampled.
I read that who can I run to?
Was sampled 49 times.
Is that true?
Shirley (37:13):
It has been that night all of our songs, which to me
it's the highest form ofappreciation and flattery.
It really is, because that justmeans that we had something out
there that other people wantedto put in some form in their
music.
Sanya (37:35):
Like Nights Over Egypt, has been sampled by Faith, by
Faith.
Yes, I didn't know that.
Yeah, I remember like whenFaith's song starts, I was like
I know that melody that beatfrom somewhere, yeah, and then,
as I was doing my research, Isaid, oh, that's where I heard
it, once again cleaning.
Shirley (37:53):
And then, as I was doing my research, I said, oh,
that's where I heard it Onceagain cleaning up on Saturday
morning.
Yeah, that's it.
And Jay-Z did you Gonna Make MeLove Somebody Else?
They say that was one of hisbiggest records.
Yes, so you know, we've had ourstuff sampled and I'm just glad
now that, through all thedifferent laws and things, that
(38:14):
when our music is played youknow the original artists are
finally getting compensated forit.
Like, say, Knights of Egypt wasjust in the Book of Clarence,
so with you know the movie, theBook of Clarence, which is
Jay-Z's movie.
So now, with the new laws thatare in place, we get paid for
(38:42):
them using our intellectualproperty our voices.
Sanya (38:44):
So question.
So artists no longer have tocontact you for permission to
sample.
Shirley (38:50):
Well, they contact the radio.
I mean the label, the recordlabel and whoever owns the
master, that's who they contact.
But then AFTRA, the AmericanFederation, the Union of
Television and Radio Artists,and SAG Screen Actors Guild,
(39:10):
they contact us and then let usknow that we do this amount of
money for our voices being used.
Sanya (39:24):
Yes, got it Now.
You briefly mentioned the wordowning your masters.
Do you own any of your songsowning your masters?
Do you own any of your songs?
Shirley (39:33):
I'm in the process now of getting all of the masters
and it's been a two year processand it should be completed.
It was, they said, the end ofset by the end of September, so
I'm hoping to get that phonecall next week.
Sanya (39:50):
Yes, Can you just briefly explain what is the importance
of an artist owning theirmasters?
Shirley (39:57):
Because then anytime anybody uses it they have to
come through you and then youget paid for.
Then you really get paid moneyfor the use of your recording.
Sanya (40:14):
And there was another question I meant to ask you a
few moments ago, because webriefly talked about you and
your sister signing toPhiladelphia International.
Did you ever think, because youwere from Detroit, that Motown
was going to sign you first?
Shirley (40:28):
No, they were interested when we were little
girls.
They were interested when wewere little girls.
But then they gave Holland,joeser Holland, their label and
we signed to music, yeah.
And then when we were singingwith Diana, barry Gordy was
interested.
But Diana was on the outs withMotown and she says I don't want
(40:52):
you guys going to Motownbecause they're not going to do
anything with you.
So that's why she had us learna song and she wanted to
introduce us to other recordlabels, which it was a lot of
them back then.
Now, now it's not so much, youknow, because they're not
signing.
Everybody now has kind of liketheir own label because it's
more, it's completely differentthan it was 40, 45 years ago
(41:16):
well, I'm very pleased to hearthat diana ross was so
supportive.
Sanya (41:20):
Oh, yeah, yes, yeah, and strengthening your career and
opening up rooms that you maynot have been invited into.
But I want to talk aboutmistakes or lessons learned,
because you mentioned that youhad four albums with
Philadelphia International, butthen you decided to leave why?
Shirley (41:39):
um well, our contract was up and we weren't really
happy with with the success ofthe, the very last, the third
album that we did with them.
Especially with that albumhaving Nights Over Egypt on it,
we felt that it should havegotten much more airplay than it
(42:01):
did.
And so we decided, after thatthird album we had an offer from
RCA and we wanted to trysomething different, and we
weren't even sure that Gamblingthem were going to resign us
anyway.
So we we took the offer andwent over there with Fonzie
(42:23):
Thornton, who's Luther's bestfriend and his co-partner, and
Robert Wright and they recordedand the album was a really good
album, but at that same time, analbum that we had in the can
that Kenny Burke had did a lotof the production on Gamble and
(42:45):
them released that.
So, and that was the fourthalbum, and that album actually
did better than the On Targetalbum.
Sanya (42:55):
So this is around like the 80s, correct?
Shirley (42:58):
Yes, this was around 80 , 84, 85.
Sanya (43:03):
Yes, so now that you and your sisters are on RCA and the
music isn't doing too well, RCAdecided to drop the group music
isn't doing too well.
Shirley (43:16):
Rca decided to drop the group.
Sanya (43:22):
Yeah, but then the group as a whole.
We were having a lot ofinternal problems too.
Shirley (43:25):
What were they?
Yes, internally, internally alot of.
That's when a lot of ofinfighting us and a lot of the
alcoholism problem thateventually Valerie passed from
and then, not too too long ago,brenda too, those problems were.
(43:48):
They started showing up.
Brenda decided to get married.
I decided to leave the groupbecause I just had had enough at
one point of babysitting andtrying to perform too.
Valerie wanted to experiencecollege.
(44:11):
Because she was the only onethat never did so.
She went back to Detroit withmy mom and Brenda got married
and I continued to sing.
I was singing background withother people, like Howard Hewitt
(44:36):
, we were doing backgroundsessions, lynn Davis doing stuff
for Shante Moore, a lot ofstuff for George Duke.
So I was doing a backgroundstuff, singing.
And then one day Kenny hadcalled me and, you know, he
asked me.
He said well, you know, haveyou ever thought about doing a
(44:59):
solo project?
And that's when I went back toPhiladelphia.
I'm like, absolutely I wouldlove to.
So that's how I became, youknow, became a soloist, got it.
Sanya (45:11):
But let's just backpedal a little bit and just talk about
the pitfalls of the industry.
Do you think that your sisterengaged in alcohol because of
the stress of the music industry, or do you think that she just
has some own personal issues?
Shirley (45:27):
Well, it's a combination of alcoholism ran in
our family Okay, my, you know,my mom's baby sister was and it
seemed like it was the babies inevery generation in my family.
So it ran in our family andthen too, yeah, back in the day,
(45:48):
thank God, you know, back inthe day it was a lot of drugs
and alcohol.
We just did the alcohol part ofit, not the drug part, but I
mean, they were both just as bad, because an alcoholic addiction
is just as bad as a drugaddiction.
Sanya (46:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.
So you started off as abackground singer.
Then eventually you go toPhiladelphia International, then
you go to RCA, the group getsdropped and then you return to
background singing.
Did you feel as if that was astep backward or like you were a
(46:31):
failure for doing that?
Shirley (46:33):
No, not at all, because I was singing and that's all
I've ever wanted to do was sing.
I just, you know, I just lovesinging.
So I was singing.
And then the reason why a lotof those people had, you know,
would contact me, because theywere trying to get that, you
know, similar sound.
(46:54):
And even Brendan, valerie and I, even though we had stopped
singing as the Jones girlspeople, some people, we would
still get together and dobackground for certain people
that will call us, like NormanConnors, you know people of that
sort.
Sanya (47:09):
But I still wanted to, always wanted, to be out front
well out front you did anamazing job because that hit
song.
Do you get enough?
Shirley (47:20):
yes, yeah oh, that was amazing.
Uh, and it's funny because thatsong was actually written for
the oj's, the late great bunnyseagull I teased.
I thank eddie and walter everytime I see them or perform was
actually written for the OJs.
What the late great Bunny Segal.
I teased.
I thanked Eddie and Walterevery time I see them or perform
for turning that song down.
I just happened to be walkingdown the hall at Philly
(47:44):
International because Gamble hadbrought me in and we were just
getting ready to start listeningand picking songs for the album
and I happened to hear Bunny inthere with this song and I said
, oh, I love this, I love thissong.
He said, well, I'm glad you do,because the OJs just turned it
down.
And I said, well, I want to doit.
(48:04):
And he said you.
He said it was written for meand I said I want to do that
song.
I said do you get enough love?
I said love is universal.
So he said well, go, if Gamblesays yes, then you can do it.
So I went to Kenny and I askedhim.
I said, kenny, I really want todo this song that the OJs just
(48:26):
turned down, and he said youreally want to do that song?
I said, kenny, I really want todo this song that the OJs just
turned down, and he said youreally want to do that song?
I said yeah.
He said all right, you andBunny go for it.
I'll give you a nephew now.
He didn't pay me.
(48:47):
That's my nephew.
Sanya (48:52):
PJ, that's Valerie's son.
Yeah, nice, nice PJ, that'sValerie's son.
Yeah, nice, nice, nice.
But you know, I always listento that song on YouTube as I
watch you perform it on SoulTrain.
Talk about the day youperformed.
Do you Get Enough Love on SoulTrain?
Oh, man.
Shirley (49:09):
We had done Soul Train as the Jones Girls, we did
Children of the Night and DanceTurn to Romance some years
earlier.
But to be doing Soul Train whenDo you Get Enough Love?
Was the number one record inthe country.
It was such a great experienceA little kind of bittersweet,
(49:32):
because I was so used toperforming with my sisters, so
it was a little bittersweet butit worked out.
It worked out beautifully andit was the first number one
record because all of our songshad only gone to I think you
Gonna Make Me Love.
Somebody Else had gone to likenumber three or number two,
(49:55):
because back in those days youknow Michael Jackson, I think,
was holding the number one spot.
You know Michael Jackson, Ithink, was holding the number
one spot.
But to have my song, me, go tonumber one was a beautiful thing
.
And then it stayed there for acouple of weeks.
Sanya (50:17):
So that was really, really nice.
I'm just getting full of all ofyour stories.
Do you prefer being?
Shirley (50:28):
in a group or solo, actually I don't know.
I mean because it was mysisters.
I loved the group because Iloved our harmonizing together,
but I like being a soloist too.
Now I'm a soloist keeping theJones Girls legacy alive.
(50:49):
So I have some girls that havebeen with me for about 13 years
that I trained, that are mybackground singers.
Everybody talks about mybackground singers because they
are awesome and they keep thatharmony going so that I can do
my lead thing and keep peoplegoing down memory lane with all
(51:11):
of our hits.
You know from you Gonna Make MeLove Somebody Else to I Just
Love the man to Dance.
Turn the Romance to Nights OverEgypt, to who Can I Run To?
And all of that's in my show.
I tell people I said you can godown memory lane with the
(51:32):
sounds and the songs of theJones Girls.
Sanya (51:37):
Can you do me a favor?
It'll be an early birthday gift, my birthday isn't until July,
but I want my gift now.
All right, it'll be an earlybirthday gift, my birthday isn't
until July, but I want my giftnow.
Can you sing just one line ofdo you get enough, please Do you
?
Shirley (51:53):
get enough, get enough, get enough, get enough.
Sanya (51:58):
Love I want to know baby, do you, do you?
Yes?
An early birthday gift?
Oh my gosh, we can go home now.
You just made my night.
The next thing that I want totalk about because so many
(52:26):
people are navigating loss andwe've mentioned your sisters a
number of times Like we can'ttalk about the Jones girls
without talking about your twosisters, right Now that they've
transitioned.
What has death taught you?
Shirley (52:37):
Death has really taught me to be more appreciative of
life because you especially nowit is so many people are leaving
here and I miss my sisters, butit's so hard to explain to
(53:01):
people every single show sincethey have passed.
I feel them with me, I feeltheir energy, I feel their
spirits and I have not had onebad show since they passed and I
(53:21):
always get with them and askthem to be there for me and them
and my mom.
It's like I see them holdingeach other and watching me and I
feel that on stage and that'swhy I say I have to keep going
(53:44):
with keeping this legacy alive,because I'm not doing it.
I'm doing it for them as muchas for myself.
Sanya (53:51):
Yes, and you've successfully done that, because
in 2023, you released areflection album honoring your
sisters.
What was that process like?
Was it therapeutic for you orwas it triggering?
Shirley (54:04):
It was both, but it was more therapeutic.
And in fact, the title track,pj, who was just in here.
He and I wrote that he's anexcellent producer.
He and Cam they're writing anddoing they've done several of
our songs hip hop style, whichhas really brought us a whole
(54:25):
new generation of friends andfans too.
So it was very therapeutic.
It was something I had beenwanting to do and I picked and
chose every single song becauseit had something to do with some
point in the life with mysisters.
Sanya (54:47):
Got it.
I'm loving to hear the storiesof how everything is paying it
forward and the pipeline toaccess your mom, you and your
sisters Diana Ross, escape, nowyour nephew.
I love to see people pay itforward.
I, I work in education and um,whenever I'm doing something for
(55:08):
students and they're just likewell, miss hudson, how can I
repay you?
And I'm like you can repay meby paying it forward.
Yes, because, especially amarginalized community,
sometimes the doorway is very,very narrow.
Maybe one person can get in andI do think that it's a
responsibility for us to reachback and pull someone else up
with us.
So I'm glad to hear that yourlegacy has been continued.
(55:32):
It's not stopping.
Shirley (55:35):
No, with my son and my son and my nephew.
They're continuing it on, butthey both got Val val, son and
my son.
They both are 35.
They're four months apartthey're more like brothers than
anything.
Sanya (55:51):
Yes, nice, nice, nice, and they're already in the music
industry and they're supportingyou oh yes absolutely nice,
nice.
So who do you listen to today'smusic?
Who are you listening to?
Shirley (56:04):
Oh, my goodness, Lettucey, I love her, I love
Lettucey.
Sanya (56:08):
Yes, but with Lettucey I don't think that she is getting
the spotlight that she deserves.
Shirley (56:17):
She is now because you know she's out there.
She's doing great.
I listen to Kim.
I like this girl.
What's her name?
Jones.
Her last name is Jones.
Sanya (56:33):
Coco.
Shirley (56:33):
Jones, coco Jones, I really like her.
I listen to a lot of jazz too.
I like some of the, some of the, the young, the young, you know
, the young people.
But uh, I really listen a lotto a lot of european music
(56:54):
artists too, because I go overto europe a lot, you know yeah,
I heard that american artistsare really, really appreciated
and valued Absolutely.
I'm headed over there inNovember, and then again in May,
and then again in June of nextyear.
Sanya (57:16):
Yeah, so I'm always over in Europe.
You know Shirley Jones is nolonger working and she is just
someone from the past to knowthat you still have a very
vibrant and active career.
Shirley (57:28):
Oh yeah, and I just did so the Soul Train Cruise,
capital City Jazz and I'm work.
Well, I'll be on quite a fewtours next year.
So I work quite a bit in theStates and will'll be working a
lot more next year on a coupleof tours I can't talk about it
yet because the contractshaven't been signed but we're
(57:50):
going to be all over the Statesnext year.
Sanya (57:53):
I love it.
I love it.
So, now that we briefly talkedabout this new era of music and
the current artists that you'relistening to, I just want to ask
you a question related tocurrent events this whole Sean P
Diddy fiasco.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Shirley (58:15):
Well, I knew nothing about his parties.
I had never heard of him.
The kids, my kids and PJ and myson they've been filling me in
on all this, but I do know that,coming out of an abusive
marriage to see him I saw thatvideo where he was kicking that
(58:39):
woman like that I lost allrespect for him because I was in
an abusive marriage and men areautomatically stronger than
women and for you to do that toa woman, you have no respect for
me.
I never knew that much abouthim.
(59:01):
He was nobody that I listenedto or anything, because that's a
whole different generation.
But it just goes to show youthat if you're not using your
money and fame to uplift otherpeople and you're using it to
(59:24):
and you're using it to, as yousay, have freak-offs and parties
and not really doing anythingto, as you were saying, pay it
forward, then you kind ofdeserve everything that happens
to you.
That's you know, and it's sad tosay, but he created this and
(59:46):
karma is something else.
Cause when you mistreat and youdo the kinds of things that
he's accused of, if, if he'sfound guilty of that and it
looks like he, looks like theyhave a lot on there then
deserves what's happeningbecause he planted those seeds.
(01:00:07):
That's why you have to be verycareful how you treat people,
how you handle absolutelyeverything, because if it's not
of a mind of helping somebody oruplifting somebody else, but
you're like these women thatthey say they were trafficking,
you know that those kinds ofthings you deserve absolutely
(01:00:30):
everything that comes your waybecause you know you don't do
anything to people that can'thelp themselves.
You, you, you.
I just believe in helpingothers, not hurting anybody or
using people or taking advantageof people or be harming people
(01:00:51):
in any kind of way.
Sanya (01:00:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm glad that you sharedyour opinion about that and you
were very transparent and honest.
I want you to just share ateachable moment or a lesson,
because you are a survivor of DV.
How did you get out of thatsituation?
Shirley (01:01:11):
It took me a while because I had had my son and he,
you know, and he was like mom,please stay in this marriage,
you know.
Stay, because he wanted to, heloved his dad, he loved me.
But I say to anybody, if ithappens once, don't.
(01:01:33):
And now I tell these women, youknow, hey, I was there.
I should have left.
I ended up.
After 23 years of marriage.
I should have left.
(01:01:54):
I ended up.
After 23 years of marriage.
I finally had got to the pointwhere I felt strong enough to
leave, to get out, and I didstay because of my son, you know
, until he graduated.
That's what he wanted, you know, and I I did take that abuse,
but I wouldn't recommend or tellany other woman to do that,
(01:02:14):
because you're only harmingyourself when you do that,
because if it happens one time,it's not going to change, it's
going to continue to happen aslong as you keep letting them
get away with that.
So that's one thing I will.
I tell women that and I'vegiven talks about that Don't,
(01:02:35):
don't, don't fall for theokey-doke.
I did and I'm telling you fromexperience please don't fall for
it, because it's not going tochange.
Sanya (01:02:46):
Well, thank you for sharing your opinion and your
story.
What advice do you have foremerging artists?
Shirley (01:02:54):
Learn the business so you can make sure that you can,
after all the fame andeverything that you're still
locked in, can, after all thefame and everything that you
still locked in.
Like you know, a lot of mylivelihood is, of course,
singing still now, but I stillget royalties and things that
have been set up from us knowingand learning about the business
(01:03:18):
of music.
Learn about the business andit's a completely different
business today than it was 40,45 years ago.
So you know a lot of it isstreaming and I'm involved in a
lot of the different things thatare happening in Congress for
(01:03:39):
us old school artists to evenget more of our deserved monies
and royalties from radio fromback in the day, so that you
know all that's in Congress now,because of certain people like
(01:04:00):
Ray Parker Jr, who's a friend ofmine and you know just, and
SAG-AFTRA, realizing that a lotof us we still aren't getting
nowhere near what we reallyshould be getting.
But there's a law in Congressnow that hopefully should be.
It's been there for about sevenor eight years.
(01:04:22):
The Senate has passed it.
We're just waiting on the Housenow where we're going to be
getting money back from the 70,from 1970 up through 1986, I
believe From radio.
Sanya (01:04:40):
Deserve every single penny.
I know that you're going to getit.
Are you on social media?
Shirley (01:04:47):
Yes, shirley Jones Girl .
Shirley Jones of the JonesGirls Is Facebook and Instagram
and threads and X is JonesShirley without the Y.
And then my website isShirleyJonesGirl no S dot com.
Sanya (01:05:09):
Well, look at you on social media.
Yes, all right.
So I'm going to follow you onsocial media and I'm asking you
to follow that Absolutely,please do.
Shirley (01:05:21):
Okay, well, ms Jones follow that?
Sanya (01:05:25):
Yes, absolutely, please do.
Okay.
Well, ms Jones, thank you somuch for such a robust
conversation you made thislittle girl I'm actually five
years old inside today oh, somuch for making me happy.
I even told my father I'm likedad, guess who I'm having a
conversation with today?
Well, he was truly, truly happyfor me as well.
So thank you.
Shirley (01:05:42):
And thank you and give your father my love and I'm glad
you were cleaning back in theday.
So many women tell me theirparents made them clean to our
music.
Yes, yes and hey, that's good.
I know it was a lot of cleanhouses back then.
Yes, clean houses back.
Sanya (01:06:02):
Yes, and now I'm singing your music to my daughter so
that she can know about theJones girls.
Shirley (01:06:09):
Oh well, that is so wonderful.
Thank you so much, I appreciateit.
Sanya (01:06:14):
This is very, very important.
Miss Jones, you've been amazing.
Take care, and I'm going to befollowing you and I'll see you
on social media.
Shirley (01:06:21):
Alrighty, take care.
God bless, take care.
Sanya (01:06:23):
God bless, take care, god bless, omg.
So there you have it, missJones of the Jones girls.
That was such an amazingconversation.
It really was the pipeline toaccess.
It didn't just start with herwalking into a room no, no, no,
no, no.
It started off Her mother.
Her walking into a room?
(01:06:44):
No, no, no, no, no.
It started off.
Her mother was a famous gospelsinger.
She saw talent in her daughtersand said you know what?
Y'all going to come over hereand think background for me.
We're going to harmonize, we'regoing to practice.
You think you're going outside.
You ain't going outside, you'regoing gonna sit right in front
of this piano and we're going topractice.
Okay, so then they grow uptheir singing.
(01:07:08):
Background for diana ross,teddy penegrins, aretha franklin
so glad that she recanted somestories about diana ross.
We don't really know too muchabout her personality.
So to learn that Diana Ross wasinstrumental and so supportive
and these girls were 12 yearsold, 12 years old with voices
(01:07:31):
like grown women.
Okay, they get signed to amajor record label.
That doesn't work out.
Eventually, that doesn't workout.
Eventually, shirley Jones goessolo Hit song.
They've been on Soul Train, Idon't know how many.
Let me tell you something.
Back in the day, you knew anartist was successful when you
(01:07:55):
turned on Soul Train and theywere the featured performer.
Soul Train Not once, but Ithink she said about three times
.
She and her sisters were onSoul Train, navigating, lost.
She lost both of her sistersand her mom Pay it Forward.
She decided to remember them bycontinuing their legacy by
(01:08:19):
creating a reflection album, bycreating a reflection album.
Now her nephew and her son arealso in the music industry
helping Ms Jones write music.
The pipeline to access.
So this is what I want to leaveyou all with.
You know, I forgot to put thisup there.
Let's do this real quick.
(01:08:40):
My bad, I told you I've beengoing for a man.
Now I'm back with the jumper.
Okay, one thing I want to leaveyou with is if you get into a
room, if you get into a room,don't get comfortable like mama.
(01:09:01):
I done made it.
No, no, no, no, no.
It is your responsibility toturn back and pull someone else
into the room with you, someonewho looks like you, someone who
looks like us, someone who black, like this and not like that.
You see this, what I don't know, but I digress, I digress.
(01:09:23):
The pipeline to access is so,so important, especially in
marginalized communities.
I cannot repeat this enough.
So make sure that you staycontinued.
Make sure you stay continued.
Make sure you continue tuningin to Sonya on air, where I not
only talk to celebrities.
(01:09:44):
It's not about salaciousness,it's about their pivotal moments
and milestones and how they'vecreated or benefited from
pipelines to access.
Do me a favor make sure yousubscribe and I'll be back with
more.
Sanya on Air Smooches dolls.
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