May 26, 2025 • 54 mins
What if the key to achieving more energy, sharper focus, and greater success is simply quitting alcohol? On episode 782 of the Savage Perspective Podcast, host Robert Sikes dives deep with guest James Swanwick, an author, entrepreneur, and advocate for living alcohol-free. Together, they reveal the invisible toll alcohol takes on high-performers’ health, productivity, and ability to succeed in life and business. This episode will challenge everything you think about drinking's role in your lifestyle. Prepare to see drinking habits in a completely new light.
In this powerful and eye-opening discussion, James shares his own 20-year struggle with daily drinking and the moment that changed his life forever. Learn how quitting alcohol helped him lose weight, regain mental clarity, boost energy, and unlock a new level of success. He explains the science behind alcohol’s effect on your brain, body, sleep, and even your financial performance—shocking insights backed by decades of research. Whether you’ve struggled with moderation or think you have your drinking under control, the truths revealed in this episode may surprise you.
Ready to make the ultimate transformation? Join Robert Sikes’ FREE Bodybuilding Masterclass now at https://www.ketobodybuilding.com/registration-2 and discover the proven 7-Phase Savage System to get shredded and unleash your full potential!
Throughout this conversation, Robert and James dissect the myths tied to alcohol, including claims about red wine’s health benefits, cultural pressure to drink at social events, and the psychological impact of labeling someone as an “alcoholic.” Most importantly, they explore the ripple effect alcohol has on ambition, relationships, and long-term happiness for entrepreneurs, fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and business professionals. James also sheds light on his work with high-performing clients through his "Project 90" program, showing how quitting can dramatically transform not just your health, but your career and confidence too.
If you’re ready to rethink your relationship with alcohol, improve how you sleep, gain more mental sharpness, and feel better than ever, this episode of the Savage Perspective Podcast with Robert Sikes is a must-watch. James Swanwick will not only inspire you to reassess what alcohol costs you but also present a compelling vision of life without it.
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Subscribe to the podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/42cjJssghqD01bdWBxRYEg?si=1XYKmPXmR4eKw2O9gGCEuQ
Chapters:
0:00 Alcohol’s Impact on the Brain and Body
1:49 The Hidden Dangers of Regular, Socially Acceptable Drinking
3:28 Debunking "Alcoholic" Labels: Alcohol Use Disorder Explained
6:23 How Alcohol Steals Your Productivity and Wealth
9:12 Breaking Free From the Long-Term Consequences of Drinking
13:12 The Truth About Red Wine and Health Claims
17:08 How Alcohol Impacts Health, Sleep, and Fitness Goals
24:05 Why We Start Drinking: The Psychology and Conditioning Behind It
31:39 A Generational Shift: Why Younger People Are Drinking Less
39:07 Overcoming Alcohol Cravings: Exercise, Connection, and More
43:56 Quitting Alcohol Is a Lifestyle, Not Just a Challenge
53:01 Find More Resources and James Swanwick’s Work
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I was a socially acceptable drinker growing up.
I would have at least a few drinks most nights of the week.
But in my 30s I realised that I'd been drinking this way for
about 20 years. Man, that catches up with you.
I was probably 3035 lbs overweight.
I was tired. I was weathered, I woke up 1
morning and I said you're a douchebag James, it's time to do
something different here. If you are looking to make gains
(00:22):
with your health, alcohol doesn't serve you at all.
There is 0 nutritional benefit to that.
Even 1 seemingly innocent drink at night is enough to cause grey
and white matter damage in the brain.
In other words, brain degeneration.
Most people are stopping drinking, using willpower, white
knuckling it, trying really really really hard not to drink.
(00:46):
Instead of I get to be alcohol free, I choose to be alcohol
free. I'm choosing this as a
lifestyle. And we are live, James.
How are you, brother? I'm very well.
Thank you, Robert. Great to be here.
Thank you. Great to have you back, man.
I just realized that we had you back on the show in 2023, so we
got to cover all the new and exciting things that have
(01:07):
happened in your life since then.
Yeah, exactly. I'm all about helping people
stop drinking alcohol now, or atleast have a better relationship
with alcohol, certainly. What what gets you?
We probably covered this a little bit on the the first
podcast, so people should definitely listen to that one.
But remind me, what was the primary catalyst for you giving
up alcohol? I was a socially acceptable
drinker growing up in my native country of Australia, in that I
(01:31):
would have at least a few drinksmost nights of the week,
sometimes a bottle of wine, sometimes was a few beers and a
Scotch, maybe a gin and tonic ora vodka.
Didn't really get that drunk after I got out of my 20s, But
in my 30s I realized that I'd been drinking this way for about
20 years. You know, I started when I was
about 16. I got to age 35 and two or three
(01:54):
drinks a night most nights of the week for 20 years.
Man, that catches up with you. I was probably 3035 lbs
overweight. I was tired.
I was weathered. My skin looked tired.
I was envious of other people. I was irritable, you know, not
sleeping great. My body didn't look great.
You know, I was just average. It wasn't like I was rock
(02:16):
bottom, waking up in a ditch andgetting arrested.
It was just the drift of life had got me and I slowly put on
weight. I slowly kind of lost my
confidence. I slowly drifted into
mediocrity. And then in 2010, I was 35 years
old. I woke up 1 morning and I said,
you're a douchebag, James, it's time to do something different
here. And I committed to what I
(02:38):
thought might be 30 days of not drinking.
And it's been 15 years now. And now I help people,
especially high achievers, to atleast have a better relationship
with alcohol, but preferably to help them quit alcohol for good.
Nice, nice. It's, it's interesting, man.
I feel like people associate Alcoholics and people with the
drinking problem as those that are on the complete, you know,
(02:59):
extreme end of the spectrum and are waking up in a ditch
somewhere. But they don't really pay any
mind to the majority of the people who just seem to casually
drink, you know, multiple times a week, even if it's nothing
crazy, not not getting drunk, but just drinking a glass of
something more days of the week than not.
I mean, that would kind of be considered an alcoholic to some
(03:20):
extent, would it not? Well, you know, in the modern
world of medicine, the term alcoholic doesn't even exist.
Alcoholism doesn't exist in modern medicine.
It's now alcohol use disorder. And so millions of people, I
submit walking around and mistakenly labeling themselves
as an alcoholic. And this alcoholic term kind of
(03:42):
means, oh, you drink too much. Oh, you make some mistakes or
you, you know, like clearly there there are consequences
from your drinking. But this notion that you're an
alcoholic is preposterous for most people.
What I do is I help people to understand the consequences of
their drinking, even if they never even imagined that they
(04:05):
might label themselves as an alcoholic.
Because one seemingly innocent drink at night can be enough to
compromise your sleep, which compromises your eating habits
the following day, which compromises your mood and your
stress and your anxiety and yourability to burn fat and your
ability to make gains in the gym, especially if you're doing
the keto diet as an OU support. So let's get rid of this term,
(04:28):
alcoholic and alcoholism. It's alcohol use disorder.
And alcohol use disorder is temporary and something that can
be fixed and changed and amended.
And so if your listener here suspects they may be drinking
too much and there are consequences from that, but they
don't feel like they're an alcoholic, chances are they're
probably experiencing an alcoholuse disorder.
(04:50):
Interesting. It's kind of funny because like
people that are kind of in that middle ground, they like it's
their, their pain is not so muchthat they can't bear it, it just
the compounding nature of it over years and years and years
catches up with them. Whereas like if you were to
translate this to somebody with an eating disorder that is
morbidly obese, for instance, like that's a very tangible
(05:13):
issue and concern that leads to catastrophic health outcomes and
it hinders their way of life. But if you're just a little
overweight, you know, 10/20/30 pounds, you can still get by,
you're not really as cognizant of all the the hindrance that
actually creates. And I would imagine the same is
true to some extent with people that are drinking on a regular
basis. Like they don't realize how
feeling good feels because they've just been numbed to it
(05:35):
for so long. I help people make the
intangible tangible, and I do that by asking them a couple of
questions. And those questions might
include, how much do you drink? What do you think has been a
consequence of your way of drinking over the course of many
(05:57):
years and sometimes, sometimes decades?
And when they trace it back, when they really look at it, you
can trace being overweight in part to your drinking habits, to
high blood pressure, in part to your drinking habits, to poor
sleep, in part to your drinking habits, relationship strain, in
part to your drinking habits, mediocre financial life, in part
(06:21):
to your drinking habits. Let me prove it financially.
OK, Let's just say that you havea business and your business
does $1,000,000 in annual revenue and you're a drinker,
not an alcoholic. You're not waking up in a ditch.
You're not doing anything too crazy, but you recognize that
you're operating at about a six or a 7 out of 10 compared to
your potential because your drinking is causing you to be
(06:43):
irritable, stressed, tired, fatigued.
That shows up. You don't make an additional
sales call, you don't think strategically, you kind of
procrastinate etcetera, etcetera, right?
So 6-7 out of $10 million. Now if you're consistently
alcohol free, you remove the alcohol.
Now you sleep better, feel better, think better, strategize
better, make an additional call,get better clients, do
(07:06):
partnerships just basically operate so much better in that
business? Feeling like an 8 or a nine out
of 10. How much additional revenue
might you make in that business?Now when I ask people that, they
often say one or two things. They say, oh, it might make
another half $1,000,000 a year or I might double.
I go, OK, well let's take the conservative figure there.
(07:29):
Half $1,000,000 additional revenue you would make if you
stopped drinking. Therefore your drinking habits
are costing you half $1,000,000 a year.
And when I say that it's like the penny drops, it's like this
drop the mic moment. They go, oh, because they were
in their head going well, I'm only spending five thousand
$10,000 a year buying alcohol. No big deal.
(07:52):
That's interesting, but not nearly as interesting as the
money they did not generate because they were drinking.
And if you may, or if I may, letme just do a little calculator
here. I'm pulling out my calculator.
If we go $500,000 / 365 days of the year, every day you choose
to drink is costing you $1369.86.
(08:16):
That is a not a cost that's worth it in my mind.
That doesn't even account for the cost of getting a divorce,
the cost of poor health. If you're a consistent drinker,
you might be more prone to getting a cold or the flu, which
means you can't work in your business or in your job half a
day a month, or a day a month, or two days a month.
(08:39):
Adds up. It adds up and that's what I'm
trying to articulate to people like this drift, this
compounding interest, this deathby 1,000,000 cuts.
It's not obvious in the moment. Each day, each week, maybe each
month, but over many months, over many years and over
(09:00):
decades, man, you get into your 40s and 50s, you're carrying
thirty extra pounds, you're irritable, you're stressed, your
relationships aren't great. Your kids don't really want to
hang out with you, your wife or your husband's kind of like over
you. You're not consciously
communicating, man. You know that stuff adds up, and
(09:20):
usually when you trace it back, you can trace it back in part to
someone's drinking habits. No, it totally makes sense to
me, man. It's, it's interesting because
there's so many parallels between this and how I view
food. I mean, your demographic is
primarily coming from the drinking background.
Mine's coming from a, from a macro nutrient nutrition
standpoint. And there's so many parallels
(09:41):
and I feel like, you know, I, I took a pretty staunch approach
to being strict with keto and just like not having any
carbohydrates period, full stop,no questions asked.
Like they're not serving me, they're not benefiting me.
I'm going to remove them from mylife.
And I've pretty much taken the same approach with alcohol.
I haven't had any drop of alcohol in three years now as
well. And it's, it's just interesting
because when you take that hard and fast approach to anything in
(10:04):
life, you get met with a lot of friction and criticism from the
masses who really doubled down on this moderation approach.
I hear it all the time from nutritional standpoint, like
wouldn't your life be so much better if you moderated your
food, had more of a variety, went out to eat and indulged in
those certain things from time to time?
It wouldn't really affect your composition that much in the
grand scheme of things. But there's like a physiological
(10:25):
component and a psychological component.
And I would venture say the samething is true in regards to
drinking around moderation versus elimination.
Moderation is a myth. That is what many of our clients
tell us and that is they join our 90 day or year long stop
drinking program. We have this program called
(10:46):
Project 90. It's been helping high achievers
for the last 10 years to stop drinking for at least 90 days
and then hopefully we can rewiretheir mindset during those three
months where they get to day 90 and then they choose to live an
alcohol free lifestyle. But those folks tell us that
moderation is a myth. And the reason they say that is
because before they came to us, they tried to moderate.
(11:10):
They said I'll only drink on special occasions, I'll only
drink on weekends, I'll only drink from Thursday onwards.
And of course, it's a very slippery slope.
They start making these deals with themselves, with their
break, and then they don't trusttheir word.
And then it doesn't really matter what they say to
themselves they're going to do. They know they're really not
going to achieve that. And it becomes a very slippery
(11:30):
slope. And so a lot of people who are
drinkers who come to us are stuck on this stop start cycle
where they stop for a while, then they start again, they stop
for a while and they start again.
And that's very frustrating and it causes all of the negative
consequences that inspired them to stop drinking in the first
place. Now, you clearly have made a
choice, Robin, as it relates to carbs.
(11:51):
And I would submit your life feels infinitely better,
probably because you've just don't eat carbs, right?
It's not like you go, oh, OK, sometimes I'll have them,
sometimes I won't. You just have made that choice.
Do you feel like your life is infinitely better for that
choice? Or do you think it might have
been better or would be better if you allowed carbs in 2-3
(12:11):
times a week or on special occasions?
No man, 100% better. I feel like I'm a very strict
person. I'm very disciplined.
But it doesn't like once you do it long enough, it doesn't
really require mental fortitude or discipline anymore.
It could just becomes habitual. And I feel like when you operate
through a lens of having certainnon negotiables in life, whether
(12:32):
that be drinking or the food you're eating with the people
you're interacting with, like having non negotiables that you
do not deviate from gives yourself guardrails.
Like if things are not serving you, eliminate them.
Like you are capable of that. And that seems unsettling for
some, but it's honestly liberating.
Like one, it's empowering knowing that you have that
(12:54):
capacity. And when enough time elapses
with you, you know, living by those principles, it's obvious
that the the result of it is by far much superior than what the,
you know, timely pleasures of indulging in those things would
be in that moment. Yes, as a an acquaintance of
mine by the name of Brandon Carter, he calls himself, I
(13:16):
think, King Keto. You familiar with him, Robert?
Yeah. Yeah.
He has carried a set of food scales with him everywhere he
goes, I think for the past 10 years.
So whenever I saw him out and about, he would always have a
backpack on and I never really noticed it.
I just thought, Oh yeah, that's just just carrying a backpack.
But he always carried a set of scales with him.
He claims he's weighed every single meal that he's ever had
(13:40):
for the past 10 years. Like, he weighs the food.
And for him, that's just what hedoes.
It's not, oh, geez, I've got to weigh my food again.
It's just what he does. And so that way, because he
weighs his food, he understands the macros, the proteins, the
carbs, the fats. He tracks it.
And that helps him make healthy choices for him throughout his
life. And he's ripped, by the way,
like he's very, very fit, seems very fit.
(14:02):
He shared some of his blood work, very high testosterone,
good, good health metrics. But for him, it's just, it's
just what he does. He kind of looks at the rest of
society and goes, what do you mean you don't weigh your food?
I don't understand that. Like, that seems peculiar.
Interestingly, just nine days ago, I started weighing my food
for the first time. I had so much resistance, so
(14:23):
much resistance for 10 years. I remember having friends, I'd
go over to the house and they'reweighing food and I'm like, what
are you doing weighing your food?
Don't you just want to just eat food and just get on with it?
He's like, no man, you got to like, you got to track your
macros. I'm not track your macros.
That sounds so dull. So extra work, just like just
like eat a whole lot of protein and some fat and limit your
(14:43):
carbs and you'll be fine. But now 9 days into this thing,
Robert, I got to tell you, I am sold on this idea, at least
initially, of weighing my food because it what is it doing?
It's educating me as to what foods have what carbs and fats
and proteins. And in nine days I've lost.
(15:04):
Let me look at my whiteboard here.
I've lost 7 lbs. I've lost 7 lbs in nine days.
So 7 lbs in nine days just tracking my food and weighing my
food. Now I'm not saying everyone
needs to go and buy a set of scales and weigh their food, but
I'm it's interesting to me that something that I resisted for a
(15:24):
decade, I just started doing it and now it feels very simple and
very normal and and now I hope it'll just be the default.
Yeah, 100%, man. And like, I don't want to
suggest that everybody has to weigh their food, but if they're
not happy with where they're at compositionally, like it makes
the most sense. Like that is low hanging fruit.
That is something that can be measured.
(15:44):
If it's measured, it can be managed and you have 100%
control over it. And most people have no clue
what their true intake is. They may be way overeating away
under eating and they just are clueless.
They're ignorant to it because they don't know basic
macronutrient profiles and what certain foods contain.
And the same is probably true with alcohol.
People don't realize, you know, what the carbohydrate or caloric
(16:06):
content of that alcohol is. They often times have two drinks
and lose count before they know what they've had eight.
They only think they're having four.
So like that adds up. And from a habitual standpoint,
man, it's interesting because I got a three-year old kid right
now and you know, we, every night, we do the whole bedtime
bath time, brush your teeth routine.
And he resists brushing your teeth, brushing his teeth like,
(16:27):
like crazy. Like it's a, it's an ordeal.
And I'm sure every kid ever was like that.
But now you and I would brush our teeth like it's just, no,
it's just part of the day. Like you just are healthy.
You have basic habits. You don't think it's weird, You
don't think it's anything obscure or you know what a
hurdle to overcome. It's just normal.
(16:48):
And the same thing is true with weighing your food, tracking
your macros, not drinking alcohol, going to the gym, like
all those things that serve you well, you just do it
consistently enough, see the, the fruits of that labor.
And then it's like, OK, why would I not do this?
Yeah, especially if you are looking to make gains with your
health. Alcohol doesn't serve you at
all. There is 0 nutritional benefit
(17:09):
to that and so even 1 seemingly innocent drink a night is enough
to cause grey and white matter damage in the brain.
In other words, brain degeneration.
There was a study out of the UK in 2022 of 35,000 middle adults
and they looked at those 35,000 adults having one drink a night.
Brain degeneration. Crazy people don't realise that.
(17:31):
And then from a caloric point ofview, you have one glass of
Chardonnay or a white wine or a Riesling or something that's the
equivalent of having one doughnut and a packet of crisps.
I mean, people don't understand that.
They just think, Oh yeah, just aglass of wine, that's fine.
You're literally drinking calories.
And those calories will then turn into sugar.
And what happens is that then itincreases your appetite.
(17:53):
It leaves you with this feeling that you now want to eat more
than what you already have. Think about it like anecdotally.
When you drink, you get hunger. You want to eat more, and so now
you're eating more food that youordinarily would not have eaten,
packing on more calories. Not to mention the body now has
to go to work to break down the toxins from that alcohol.
(18:16):
Most people are drinking alcoholclose to bed.
One drink is enough to compromise your sleep.
Your body is now working at a time when it's supposed to be
resting and that now affects your metabolism, it affects your
fat loss goals, it affects your affects your muscle building
goals. It affects your mood, it affects
your stress and anxiety levels, it affects your outlook on life.
(18:40):
All of those kind of things which then can influence your
behaviours such as, oh, I'm not going to track my food because
I'm tired or I'm not going to beconscious about my food today
because I'm tired. I just need a little pick me up.
So let me just have some pancakes and some whipped cream
at IHOP just to get a bit of a boost.
Or let me have this can of Coke or I'll have this Kit Kat or
this Snickers bar and so forth and so forth and so forth.
(19:03):
So what I'm trying to articulatehere is even 1 seemingly
innocent glass of alcohol per night is enough to really
compromise many areas of your life.
Totally, ma'am. Some people will try and make an
argument for there being certainhealth benefits to red wine, for
instance. I think typically they're
referring to resveratrol. But when you look at that like
(19:25):
the, the, the positive of that is not outweighed by the
negative of the toxins that it'scoming with alongside.
Like there's healthier ways to get resveratrol and other
antoxidants than through liquor as a medium.
You'd actually have to drink almost half a barrel of wine to
get the benefits of the res vitrol.
(19:48):
Like literally you need to drinkvast quantities of wine before
any of the health benefits from the res vitrol kicks in.
And by that stage you'll be shitfaced, drunk and or dead and
all of the negative consequenceshave come into your life because
of that. The other thing is, is that
(20:10):
there was a study, or there werestudies, or rather they were
claims that came out in the late80s, early 90s, that a glass of
wine at night was good for your heart health.
It actually originated from a 1991 episode of 60 Minutes, You
know, the tip television news show 60 Minutes.
Yeah. So in 1991, there was a
journalist by the name of Molly Shaffer, and he interviewed this
(20:32):
French scientist who also happened to have a vineyard.
He came from a family of wine makers.
And this scientist was the one who put forward on the 60
Minutes television program that a glass of red, red wine may
have health benefits to your heart.
And at the end of this 60 Minutes episode, the journalist,
(20:53):
Morley Schaeffer, had a glass ofred wine.
He turned to the camera and he said to the 30 million Americans
who were watching the episode that night, So the secret to a
great life might lie in this glass of wine.
Cheers. And then he went to sip it.
The following day, US airlines reported selling out a red wine
(21:15):
on domestic flights. And in the 30 days after that
episode aired, there was a 40% spike in red wine sales across
the country. And over the course of one year,
a 32% spike in red wine sales. All because of 160 Minutes
episode in 1991 where the basis of the claims was from 1 French
(21:38):
scientist who happened to be a wine maker.
The following year, 60 Minutes re aired the same episode.
You know, sometimes they just say, hey, we're going to show
you this episode from a year ago, right?
Same thing happened next day. US airlines sold out of red
wine. Red wine sales spiked again, and
people just latched on to this claim that red wine's good for
(22:01):
the heart. There's just one problem,
though, Robert. It's been found that that claim
simply wasn't true. They've been repeated studies
over the years now over the lastthree decades, with the benefit
of more science, more studies, more rigorous testing.
And all of the studies now show that there is not any health
(22:22):
benefit to any amount of alcohol.
That's it. In fact, in 2023, there was a
Professor Tim Stockwell from theUniversity of Victoria in
Canada, and he studied 107 previously published studies
claiming that a glass of wine was good for your heart.
And those studies involved 5 million study participants.
(22:44):
And what professor, professors, and what Professor Stockwell
found was that all of those 107 previously published studies
were either quote, skewed and orbiased.
In other words, the people who are funding those studies had
direct links to big alcohol, whether it be liquor companies
(23:06):
directly or associations associated with big liquor.
So I want to really implore yourlistener to do their own
research on this. However, I can tell you I've
been researching this now for 10years.
I wrote a book called Clear which just came out in 2025 and
I do a whole chapter on this, breaking down and breaking apart
(23:26):
the claim that any amount of alcohol is good for you.
I wouldn't imagine any of my listener demographic believes
alcohol is benefit. Honestly, I don't think most the
population would would make thatargument.
I mean, maybe there are some biohackers out there that are
really doubling down the resveratrol and red wine, but I
would assume that most people don't honestly think they're
(23:47):
doing something healthy when they're drinking alcohol because
most people are drinking, you know, sugary Latin, you know,
you know, mixed, mixed drinks and beer and stuff like that in
the 1st place. I feel like to really get to the
root of the problem, it's much more of a psychological issue
than it is a physiological belief.
I'd be curious to get your thoughts on this but I would
assume like why do you think people drink in the 1st place
(24:11):
and work with the people that you have?
It starts when you're a child, when your parents or the adult
figures in your life said to you, no, no, little Robert, you
can't drink. You can drink when you're older.
And in that moment, the adult figure in your life implanted
the idea that alcohol was a riteof passage, that alcohol is
something that you get to do when you are an adult.
(24:32):
And so all of a sudden we're creating this kind of like, oh,
this alcohol, this thing is something that when I get to
grow up, I get to drink it. So we're implanting this idea
that it's desirable. Whereas in reality, alcohol is
simply attractively packaged poison, it continued.
Then in our teenage years, we goto colleges, go to universities,
(24:53):
and there are smiling assassins everywhere.
And a smiling assassin are your friends or the waiters or
waitresses in the restaurant or the barman or bar woman at the
bar who was smiling and said, hey, can I get you a drink?
Hi there, Robert. Hi, Mr. Sykes, Hi, Mr. Swanik,
can I get you started with a glass of 10 lbs of unwanted body
fat? Hi there.
(25:13):
Can I get you a glass of regret in the morning?
And so they're, these smiles areon people's faces.
And so we make the connection and the association between
alcohol equals happiness and bonding and connection and
romance and fun and celebration and not drinking alcohol equals
(25:36):
deprivation and dull and boredomand pain.
That's the association. It's cultural conditioning.
And then we have these Hollywoodcelebrities like The Rock,
Dwayne Johnson and George Clooney and Ryan Reynolds.
There's much to admire about those three celebrities who I
just referenced. They're very healthy, they're
(25:57):
very fit. They've done a lot for charity.
They help a lot of people. They're very positive.
However, they are peddling poison because all three of
those celebrities have their ownliquor companies.
The Rock and George Clooney havetequila brands.
Ryan Reynolds has aviation gin and they are peddling poison, no
(26:20):
question. History will not be kind to
them. We'll be looking back in 20-30
years, looking upon alcohol withthe same level of disdain we
currently do cigarettes. But again, it's this, it's this
cultural conditioning. You're stressed, have a drink.
Celebrate, have a drink. Create romance, Let's have a
drink. It's the Super Bowl, catching up
(26:41):
with the boys, let's have a drink.
Oh, it's the wedding, we have totoast the bride and groom to the
bride and groom, let's toast with some champagne.
And on and on and on it goes. So that's why it's so
challenging for people to finally break free from alcohol,
because our friends, our family,our colleagues, our staff and
(27:03):
culture in general think that ifwe choose not to drink, we must
be an alcoholic, we must be a wemust have a problem.
Robert must have a problem. No society has a problem.
That's what I submit. No, I, I agree on all counts,
man. I mean, I feel like looking at
it as a poison is totally accurate.
(27:24):
I mean, from a biological standpoint that makes perfect
sense that science is clear. So it's interesting to see how
the society, cultural, you know,integration of it all plays out.
And I don't know what the solution is.
Like, I, I mean, the prohibitionarea didn't really go over too
well. So I don't think not having it,
not allowing it and, you know, making it illegal is necessary
(27:44):
the right way. But it's like we got to just
change the way people think about it in the first place.
And I think I feel like society is becoming more health
conscious. And that may be because that's
just kind of the echo chamber that I may find myself in with a
nutrition and performance brand.But I feel like, I mean, fewer
people are certainly smoking these days than, you know, 50
(28:06):
years ago. They're all vaping now, which is
not any better. But hopefully the tides will
turn and people will recognize that OK, alcohol isn't really
serving me either, but I don't know when that tipping point
happens. We're moving increasingly closer
to it. Generation Z has never drunk
(28:27):
less compared to other generations, so they are turning
their back on alcohol. Increasingly, liquor brands are
coming out with 0% alternatives.Heineken, for example, has a
product called Heineken 0, and in 2023 it attributed for 11% of
(28:48):
all Heineken sales. That's extraordinary.
That is an extraordinarily high amount of sales of 0% beer.
I see advertising for that now in Champions League football
games, on the billboards, on theon the sideline as the Champions
League teams are playing. It's at Heineken Zero.
I see Heineken 0 sponsoring Formula One teams now.
(29:11):
I remember I first started this organization which is called
Alcohol Free Lifestyle and we help high achievers stop
drinking. I started this organization back
in 2015. I wouldn't say I was ridiculed,
but people was like, what are you doing?
You what? You help people stop drinking.
Why would people pay for that? Why don't they just quit?
Just stop. Oh, you help Alcoholics, do you?
(29:32):
I'm like, Oh no, no, just help people who want to cut back or
stop. They're like, but why?
That was 10 years ago, but today, 2025, and I write about
this in my book Clear, there's atidal wave of change happening
in people's attitudes towards alcohol and towards not drinking
(29:52):
alcohol. 10 years ago people were embarrassed to say that
they didn't drink. They would hide it from people.
I know I did when I first stopped drinking, I hid it from
people for the 1st 30 days or so.
But now people are actually proud to say that they're not
drinking alcohol. It doesn't mean that they're an
alcoholic in the term alcoholic in the lazy way that people
(30:13):
think of this term alcoholic. It doesn't mean they've got a
problem, doesn't mean that they're rock bottom.
It doesn't mean anything other than they just want to live a
healthy life. And culturally, that is becoming
much more the norm and has increasingly done so in the past
three years, is what I've observed.
Yeah, I would agree with that for sure.
I feel like social media and media in general has is it's
(30:35):
obviously a double edged sword. I mean people use it to see
people like The Rock promoting their tequila brand and and it,
you know, puts that in a favourable light.
But I feel like also people recognize that there are high
achievers out there that are proud to announce they're not
drinking alcohol and they want to emulate that as well.
So it is that double edged sword.
But I feel like they're like when my generation, for
(30:58):
instance, I'm 33 and I mean, I came into the world before
social media was there before, Imean, there was no cell phones
really. But now, like everybody, all of
my peer group, like I had my buddy text me other day and he's
like, man, I'm, I got to stop drinking as much.
I got to clean up my diet. I'm putting on too much weight.
My testosterone's down. And I'm like, yeah, man, you got
(31:19):
to fight that, Dad. But it's going to happen to you.
It's going to sneak up and get you.
And it's like that generation isgoing through that chapter in
life where they don't have, you know, the high testosterone they
did when they were in their 20s.They're not as active as they
were. They're sitting at a desk job
more frequently than not. And it's like they are
recognizing, you know, their their physical downfall and just
how they feel overall. They don't, they don't have as
(31:39):
much zeal for life. But that generation can also see
via social media and other platforms, the Internet, that,
hey, look, there are better alternatives out there.
You don't have to drink alcohol to be successful.
So I feel like from that generation on, they're becoming
much more awakened to the fact that, you know, we can go
through life without going out with the guys for brewskies
(32:00):
afterwards, you know? I think a lot of us also are
seeing what could be the effectsof alcohol on our parents or in
some cases grandparents, becauseour parents and grandparents
drink considerably more than what this current generation
drinks and what Generation Z is drinking.
(32:22):
Anecdotally, my mother is married to an 82 year old man
and he has dementia and he was alifelong drinker.
Now, he wasn't a lifelong drinker of, you know, 6 pack
every night and a bottle of wineevery night, but, you know, at
least two or three drinks a night most nights of the week
(32:43):
for 70 years. Well, let's say 60 years.
Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. 65 years is probably
the most accurate figure, I would say probably started
drinking when he was 15. He's now 83, right?
Doesn't drink so much now because he's got dementia, but
65 years drinking a poison whichhas been shown to destroy matter
(33:05):
in the brain, grey and white matter in the brain now I can't
prove it. I'm not a doctor, I'm not a
surgeon. But anecdotally, my suspicions
are that his drinking habits at least contributed to his
dementia, either in the speed with which it came on or the
severity or the pace with which it's now developing.
Again, I say that hesitantly because I'm not a doctor, but I
(33:29):
see it like I, I see anecdotal evidence everywhere.
People who I know have been drinking for many years, many
decades, they are deteriorating at a rapid pace.
And you know, some might argue, well, you know, maybe though
they're deteriorating at a record pace just because it's
age. It's just the aging process.
But from what I understand aboutmodern medicine, we can really
(33:53):
slow down that aging process. We don't have to be 83 and have
dementia and be 4050 lbs overweight and walking with a
cane. If we instill good habits over
many years and decades. We can be 80 and fit and mobile
and doing push ups and having all of our cognitive faculties.
(34:15):
Totally agree. I mean, I've got my grandparents
right now. I mean, my granny's showing
signs of Alzheimer's dementia. And I think a large, you know,
reason that she's going through that is because not so much that
she drank a lot, but because sheeats way too many carbohydrates
and sugars, not nearly enough proteins and quality fats and is
under eating. So she's super frail.
She's lost muscle. She had a, she fell the other
(34:36):
day. So she's been bruised up for the
past three weeks and just massive muscle loss.
And you know, that sugar is not too different from alcohol, how
it's metabolized and its effect on the brain.
So, you know, I think that makesperfect sense as a contributor
to Alzheimer's, dementia, whether it be too many sugars or
(34:56):
too much alcohol. I mean, I worry about like my,
my dad, he's super healthy. He's very active.
He's sailing around the world right now in his retirement,
like going after his dreams. But you know, he has a casual
glass of bourbon more nights than not.
I don't think I've ever seen himdrunk my whole life.
And he's very capable and incredibly intelligent.
(35:17):
He's a professor. But it's like, man, the
compounding effect of having that one glass of bourbon or
Scotch, whatever it is, you know, more often than not
through the next 30-40, fifty years, it's like that's, that's
not, that's not going to bode well for you.
There's a book called Outwittingthe Devil by the author Napoleon
(35:37):
Hill, and it's the same author who wrote the book Think and
Grow Rich. And in Outwitting the Devil,
Napoleon Hill says the biggest threat to a human is the drift.
And the drift he describes as just allowing the mediocrity of
your life take over. It's like just drifting through
(36:00):
some mediocrity like a river, like a piece of wood in a river
that's going downstream. It's just drifts over months,
over years, over decades, until you wake up 1 morning and you're
like, my kids don't want to phone me, talk to me.
(36:21):
I got divorced, 40 lbs overweight.
I got to go to the doctor's office twice a week because I
got high blood pressure or acid reflux.
I'm isolated, I'm lonely, I'm unhappy.
I don't have a positive outlook.Asleep is crap.
(36:42):
I'm just blah. That's what's possible.
That's the drift that Napoleon Hill was talking about.
And as I said earlier, to me it feels like death by 1000 cuts.
One cut, don't notice it, 2 cuts, three cuts, maybe even 100
cuts, Don't really notice it as it's happening.
But over time, just like compound interest, it becomes
(37:06):
death by 1000 cuts. And so I hope that this is a
wake up call for many, even if you can just re explore your
relationship with alcohol and cut back.
Even though many of our clients in our Project 90 program tell
us that moderation is a myth, Ifyou haven't yet attempted this
and you're just wanting to dip your toe in the water, just
(37:27):
cutting back will be beneficial.A. 100% do you feel like, I feel
like they're a lot of people drink because I mean, honestly,
it's just a form of pacification.
Like they want to relax, kick their feet up and just be numb
to the day-to-day stressors of the world.
(37:49):
And they become so beholden to that way of accomplishing that
task that they'll that's just what they they do.
That's just their that's their habit.
When you're trying to get peopleto step away from alcohol,
reduce it or eliminate entirely,what would be a good stop gap in
its place? Is there a substance that fills
(38:10):
that void or is it a habit? Or is it just totally a
different framework and way of thinking all together?
Most people are drinking to relieve themselves of a feeling
that is very unpleasant and thatcould be stress, could be
anxiety or could be fatigue. So imagine if you didn't have as
(38:31):
much or any stress, anxiety or fatigue, The craving for a drink
would dissipate or disappear. I asked one of the world's
leading addiction experts at Cambridge University in the
United Kingdom. His name's Professor David
Bellan, and I asked him what supplement would you recommend
to eliminate cravings? What supplement would you
(38:54):
recommend to reduce stress and anxiety and fatigue which leads
to cravings? He said two things, exercise and
human connection. And I said what he said.
It's not a sexy answer, but exercise is the way that you
(39:16):
reduce stress, anxiety and therefore cravings.
Therefore, you exercise, you reduce stress, you reduce
exercise, you reduce cravings, you're less likely to drink
alcohol, physical connection, having a robust group of
friends, being in conversation with people.
(39:40):
He said during the COVID-19 pandemic, people were isolated,
they were at home. Drinking habits increased
exponentially. People were drinking more
alcohol than they'd ever drunk because they were at home, they
were isolated. And 4-5 years on from that, I
guess you could say my business is benefiting from those
(40:03):
devastating circumstances because I'm inundated with high
achievers all over the world wanting to engage my
professional services to supportthem stopping drinking because
they created or embedded that habit during the pandemic,
because they lacked social connection.
So certainly Professor David Bellin's submission was that the
(40:26):
antidote is exercise. Or exercise more and create a
great group of friends and allies.
One of the world's longest humanstudies is out of Harvard
University. And they started studying these
what were then late teens, early20s men back in the 1930s.
And many of them, if not all of them have died now.
(40:48):
But what they found as they checked in with these men over
7580 years before they died was what's the biggest contributing
factor to your happiness? And they all said the quality of
their relationships. So if one of the world's leading
addiction experts today in the modern world, Professor David
(41:09):
Bell and from Cambridge University is saying exercise
and human connection and the longest running human study that
we know of out of Harvard University shows that men said
the biggest contributor to theirhappiness was the quality of
their relationships. I would submit the exercise and
create a great group of friends and that might or will likely
(41:33):
destroy your drinking habit. And probably worthwhile to
create a group of friends that are not avid drinkers to kind of
double that as well. Because I feel like so many
people just get trapped in the people they're surrounded by.
And if you surround yourself with people that default to
drinking as the form of entertainment, it's going to be
much harder to stay steer clear from it.
(41:54):
But if you surround yourself with people that see the
benefit, not excessive drinking or not at all, it's going to be
much easier to refrain from it as well.
So 100% agree on all counts there man.
What do you think about relapse though?
Like people that you know successfully go through, you
know, significant time block without like what is the
catalyst for them that start again?
(42:15):
Is it just not enough exercise and time?
Aquatic people. Most people are doing these
things like 30 day challenges, dry July, sober October, dry
January. You've probably heard of those
now. They're fine.
In theory, someone's going to stop drinking for 30 days.
(42:36):
Sounds pretty good. However, long term, they're
incredibly ineffective because what happens is most people who
go into those 30 day challenges are experiencing deprivation
during those 30 days. So they're still identifying
alcohol as the reward and not drinking alcohol as deprivation
(42:59):
and pain, which is why they're going, oh, on day 22, Oh, I'm on
day 26, just three days to go. Oh jeez, I can't wait to have a
drink on day 30 to celebrate. Might you can't wait to have a
drink on day 30 to celebrate. What was the point of you doing
these 30 days in the first placeif you're still associating
alcohol with joy and pleasure and not drinking alcohol with
(43:21):
pain and suffering? And So what invariably happens
is they get to day 30 and what do they do?
They celebrate with what? A drink.
And then they return to the samelevel of drinking that inspired
them to do a 30 day challenge inthe 1st place.
So most people are stopping drinking, using willpower, white
(43:43):
knuckling it, trying really, really, really hard not to
drink. Instead of I get to be alcohol
free, I choose to be alcohol free.
I'm choosing this as a lifestyle.
The name of my company and organization, we coach high
achievers all over the world to stop drinking.
The name of that organization isAlcohol Free Lifestyle.
(44:07):
Now, I strategically chose the lifestyle word to be part of my
company's name because that's what this is.
It's a lifestyle, a style of life.
This isn't being sober, being inrecovery and being clean and
white knuckling it and using grit and surrendering to a
(44:27):
higher power and being forced tosay hi, my name's James and I'm
an alcoholic. I say BS to all of that stuff,
which is why we don't use the term sober or sobriety or
relapse or any of that kind of stuff in our coaching.
We're inviting people to choose an alcohol free lifestyle.
They get to live this way. It's a choice they get to and
(44:51):
it's fun and it's preferable. So if I can help people to
rewire their mindset during these 90 days from man, this is
hard. This is hard to oh, I love this.
I'm going to keep going with this.
(45:11):
This is my new lifestyle and this is like compound interest.
This is just going to get betterand better over time.
I am gloriously happy choosing an alcohol free lifestyle.
Then there is no relapse to use your verbiage.
There's just lifestyle choices. That's the only way to go, man.
Like I'd, I'd take the same stance when it comes to
(45:32):
nutrition. It's like there's all these
crazy, you know, fat loss cuts and you know, just all these,
these hacks that people make andthese crash diets.
And it's like you got to adopt something as a lifestyle.
Like if you're having a white knuckle it, then you're not
going to be successful with the long term.
So having that long game mentality towards it all.
(45:53):
I mean, then I mean, it's got tobe sustainable and you got to be
excited about the direction it'shitting the trajectory you're
on. But once you make that switch,
like it's, it's not, it's not draining, it's not tax and you
don't feel like you're deprived or sacrificing anything and like
you're excited about the future and what lies ahead.
And you're excited to wake up and you have a reason to wake
up. And yeah, man, when you can make
that shift when it comes to yourtraining activities, your food
(46:16):
that you put in your mouth, the drink that you consume, like the
doors just start opening. So IA 100% agree.
May I ask you a question about carbohydrates?
By all means. When I've been weighing my food
in these past nine days, I've been advised by a coach on the
(46:37):
macros. So 40 grams of protein, I'm
sorry, 40 grams of fat, 180 grams of protein.
And let me just check My FitnessPal, how many calories, how many
carbohydrates? 170 grams of carbohydrates.
So that's the goal for me being in a cutting phase.
So I'm looking to cut some visceral fat and the macros are
(46:59):
180 grams of protein, 170 grams of carbohydrates and 40 grams of
fat per day for 30 days. First 30 days and then we
reassess. I'm loving eating the protein in
the fat and the carbohydrates. I'm finding I'm really only
getting from some of the vegetables that I'm eating.
I'm not eating processed crap oranything like that.
(47:21):
I'm getting some carbs from a few dates.
I've had a little bit of rice inthe last 9 days, but mostly the
carbs are coming from things like broccoli and some
vegetables. So in keto, do you refrain from
eating any of the vegetables that have calories in them?
Because you said that you are just 00 carbohydrates.
(47:44):
If carbohydrates are in vegetables or salads, do you
refrain from eating those vegetables and salads?
I don't eat a lot of vegetation.You can certainly eat vegetables
on a ketogenic diet, especially low glycemic index vegetables
that, you know, like your dark leafy greens.
You just want to avoid anything like the rice and the breads and
(48:05):
the pastas and things like that.I don't need any fruit really,
because, you know, fructose is, you know, prevalent in fruit and
there's quite a bit of sugar, natural sugars, but sugar is
nonetheless in fruit. So I don't really eat much of
that. But the vast majority of my food
intake is coming from quality fats and proteins, and my total
carbohydrate consumption is normally South of 30 grams a
(48:26):
day, typically under 20 grams a day.
So a handful of carbs from tracesources like that in vegetables,
but not really anything that's going to be significant.
Got it. OK.
So it's not like you're saying 0% carbohydrates every day
because you are getting 20 or 30grams of carbs each day just by
(48:46):
naturally eating some of those other foods.
It's more like. And there's like there's trace
carbs in eggs, you know, So likeif you eat enough eggs, you can
have some trace carbs. Adding up from that, there's a
little bit of trace carbs and heavy cream.
I mean, some people do a, a really strict carnivore diet
where they're pretty much consuming, depending on how
strict they want to take it, exclusively beef, water and
salt, in which case you would beconsuming 0 grams of
(49:08):
carbohydrates and your body can produce the minimal amount of
carbohydrates necessary for the brain internally via
gluconeogenesis. So you don't honestly need to
consume any carbohydrates. Your body can metabolize all
that within itself. You're if you're eating 170
grams, 180 grams of carbohydrates, you're still
using carbohydrate metabolism, glucose metabolism to provide
(49:32):
energy for your day-to-day function.
Whereas I'm taking a fat metabolism, fat adapted approach
and primarily using lipids and ketones as my primary fuel
substrate. Got it.
So knowing now that I've been advised 180 grams of protein,
170 grams of carbs and 40 grams of fat, if you were to advise me
(49:57):
on increasing my fat burning potential, what would you
propose amending from those those macros?
So how much do you weigh? 180 lbs.
Yeah, I started at 186 and now I'm 179.4.
OK, so he your coach recommendedyou take in base basically 1g of
(50:22):
protein per pound of body weight, which is a typical,
typical recommendation. But now if we look at your total
caloric intake, 180 grams of carbs, 170 grams of protein and
100 or 40 grams of fat, that's only 17160 calories.
So that's not a whole lot of food.
I typically try to have as high a caloric intake at the onset as
(50:46):
possible and then gradually taper that down so that my
metabolism is able to acclimate accordingly.
If you're doing more of a short term aggressive, you know,
weight loss approach, which I wouldn't typically recommend,
but if you are going that route,you are going to have to be more
aggressive with that total calorie count.
But 40 grams of fat is not very much at all, and a lot of
competitors and people going through a fat loss phase by
(51:08):
keeping their total dietary fat intake so low, if they do that
for too long, they'll start to see some repercussions
hormonally speaking, because youneed more dietary fat to
optimize hormone health. So if I wanted to get you more
from a fat adapted standpoint, I'd probably bump your calories
up a little bit higher and then basically invert the
(51:28):
carbohydrates and the fat. So keep your carbs super low and
your fat significantly higher and you can even keep those
calories isocaloric. Like you could pretty much swap
out and keep the calories the same but then just swap out that
macronutrient distribution if you wanted to become more fat
adapted. Thank you very much.
I appreciate that. Yeah, I'm told that the strategy
(51:49):
is the 30 days of this as a cut to try and lean up.
And then I'm told that as soon as I've kind of stripped most of
the undesirable fat off my body,then we increase the calories
and we change the macros and we go into a build a build phase.
That seems to be the strategy that's been communicated to me.
(52:11):
There is definitely benefit to having a dedicated build phase
and a dedicated cut phase. I mean, a lot of people try and
just, you know, do like a lean gain or like a like they're
competing for another. In order to optimize muscle
growth, you ideally need to be in a surplus.
In order to optimize fat loss, you ideally need to be in a
deficit. So trying to do both
simultaneously is just like being stuck in purgatory, limbo
(52:32):
land. So it is great that you're on a
dedicated cutting phase and thenyou're going to, you know,
follow that with a dedicated building phase.
I would just change the macro profile if you're trying to do
it from a ketogenic standpoint. But there's lots of different
ways to skin a cat. I'm just biased and partial
toward the ketogenic approach. Yeah.
Well, thank you very much. Sounds like I'm not doing
(52:52):
anything too wrong anyway. No, no, not at all.
Well, sweet man, I can sit here and talk with you all day long
about the mindset component, butwon't be respectful your time.
Where do people go to dive deeper into your world and just
get more information and get your book?
Thank you. Yeah, the book is available at
alcoholfreelifestyle.com/clear or anywhere online where books
(53:14):
are sold, including Amazon. For example, the book name is
clear, the only neuroscience based approach to help people
quit drinking without willpower,a a or rehab.
My website is Alcohol free lifestyle.com and I referenced
our 90 day stop drinking process, which the University of
(53:37):
Washington studied in a scientific study back in 2023
and found a 98% reduction in drinking from those who went
through that Project 90 process.If you'd like to learn more
about that, you can just go to alcoholfreelifestyle.com/project
90. And then I'm quite active on
Instagram as well. I kind of put out a lot of
(53:57):
videos and tips and tricks to reduce your drinking, so you
could always follow me there, which is just my name at James
Swannick. Awesome, awesome.
I will certainly link out and make it easy for people to find
you. You are fighting the good fights
Sir. I appreciate you doing what
you're doing. Too many people drink way too
much out there, so you are moving the needle in the right
direction. Well, thank you, Robert.
(54:18):
I appreciate that as are you as it relates to people's health
and and nutrition. So I appreciate you as well,
Sir.
I was a socially acceptable drinker growing up.
I would have at least a few drinks most nights of the week.
But in my 30s I realised that I'd been drinking this way for
about 20 years. Man, that catches up with you.
I was probably 3035 lbs overweight.
I was tired. I was weathered, I woke up 1
morning and I said you're a douchebag James, it's time to do
something different here. If you are looking to make gains
(00:22):
with your health, alcohol doesn't serve you at all.
There is 0 nutritional benefit to that.
Even 1 seemingly innocent drink at night is enough to cause grey
and white matter damage in the brain.
In other words, brain degeneration.
Most people are stopping drinking, using willpower, white
knuckling it, trying really really really hard not to drink.
(00:46):
Instead of I get to be alcohol free, I choose to be alcohol
free. I'm choosing this as a
lifestyle. And we are live, James.
How are you, brother? I'm very well.
Thank you, Robert. Great to be here.
Thank you. Great to have you back, man.
I just realized that we had you back on the show in 2023, so we
got to cover all the new and exciting things that have
(01:07):
happened in your life since then.
Yeah, exactly. I'm all about helping people
stop drinking alcohol now, or atleast have a better relationship
with alcohol, certainly. What what gets you?
We probably covered this a little bit on the the first
podcast, so people should definitely listen to that one.
But remind me, what was the primary catalyst for you giving
up alcohol? I was a socially acceptable
drinker growing up in my native country of Australia, in that I
(01:31):
would have at least a few drinksmost nights of the week,
sometimes a bottle of wine, sometimes was a few beers and a
Scotch, maybe a gin and tonic ora vodka.
Didn't really get that drunk after I got out of my 20s, But
in my 30s I realized that I'd been drinking this way for about
20 years. You know, I started when I was
about 16. I got to age 35 and two or three
(01:54):
drinks a night most nights of the week for 20 years.
Man, that catches up with you. I was probably 3035 lbs
overweight. I was tired.
I was weathered. My skin looked tired.
I was envious of other people. I was irritable, you know, not
sleeping great. My body didn't look great.
You know, I was just average. It wasn't like I was rock
(02:16):
bottom, waking up in a ditch andgetting arrested.
It was just the drift of life had got me and I slowly put on
weight. I slowly kind of lost my
confidence. I slowly drifted into
mediocrity. And then in 2010, I was 35 years
old. I woke up 1 morning and I said,
you're a douchebag, James, it's time to do something different
here. And I committed to what I
(02:38):
thought might be 30 days of not drinking.
And it's been 15 years now. And now I help people,
especially high achievers, to atleast have a better relationship
with alcohol, but preferably to help them quit alcohol for good.
Nice, nice. It's, it's interesting, man.
I feel like people associate Alcoholics and people with the
drinking problem as those that are on the complete, you know,
(02:59):
extreme end of the spectrum and are waking up in a ditch
somewhere. But they don't really pay any
mind to the majority of the people who just seem to casually
drink, you know, multiple times a week, even if it's nothing
crazy, not not getting drunk, but just drinking a glass of
something more days of the week than not.
I mean, that would kind of be considered an alcoholic to some
(03:20):
extent, would it not? Well, you know, in the modern
world of medicine, the term alcoholic doesn't even exist.
Alcoholism doesn't exist in modern medicine.
It's now alcohol use disorder. And so millions of people, I
submit walking around and mistakenly labeling themselves
as an alcoholic. And this alcoholic term kind of
(03:42):
means, oh, you drink too much. Oh, you make some mistakes or
you, you know, like clearly there there are consequences
from your drinking. But this notion that you're an
alcoholic is preposterous for most people.
What I do is I help people to understand the consequences of
their drinking, even if they never even imagined that they
(04:05):
might label themselves as an alcoholic.
Because one seemingly innocent drink at night can be enough to
compromise your sleep, which compromises your eating habits
the following day, which compromises your mood and your
stress and your anxiety and yourability to burn fat and your
ability to make gains in the gym, especially if you're doing
the keto diet as an OU support. So let's get rid of this term,
(04:28):
alcoholic and alcoholism. It's alcohol use disorder.
And alcohol use disorder is temporary and something that can
be fixed and changed and amended.
And so if your listener here suspects they may be drinking
too much and there are consequences from that, but they
don't feel like they're an alcoholic, chances are they're
probably experiencing an alcoholuse disorder.
(04:50):
Interesting. It's kind of funny because like
people that are kind of in that middle ground, they like it's
their, their pain is not so muchthat they can't bear it, it just
the compounding nature of it over years and years and years
catches up with them. Whereas like if you were to
translate this to somebody with an eating disorder that is
morbidly obese, for instance, like that's a very tangible
(05:13):
issue and concern that leads to catastrophic health outcomes and
it hinders their way of life. But if you're just a little
overweight, you know, 10/20/30 pounds, you can still get by,
you're not really as cognizant of all the the hindrance that
actually creates. And I would imagine the same is
true to some extent with people that are drinking on a regular
basis. Like they don't realize how
feeling good feels because they've just been numbed to it
(05:35):
for so long. I help people make the
intangible tangible, and I do that by asking them a couple of
questions. And those questions might
include, how much do you drink? What do you think has been a
consequence of your way of drinking over the course of many
(05:57):
years and sometimes, sometimes decades?
And when they trace it back, when they really look at it, you
can trace being overweight in part to your drinking habits, to
high blood pressure, in part to your drinking habits, to poor
sleep, in part to your drinking habits, relationship strain, in
part to your drinking habits, mediocre financial life, in part
(06:21):
to your drinking habits. Let me prove it financially.
OK, Let's just say that you havea business and your business
does $1,000,000 in annual revenue and you're a drinker,
not an alcoholic. You're not waking up in a ditch.
You're not doing anything too crazy, but you recognize that
you're operating at about a six or a 7 out of 10 compared to
your potential because your drinking is causing you to be
(06:43):
irritable, stressed, tired, fatigued.
That shows up. You don't make an additional
sales call, you don't think strategically, you kind of
procrastinate etcetera, etcetera, right?
So 6-7 out of $10 million. Now if you're consistently
alcohol free, you remove the alcohol.
Now you sleep better, feel better, think better, strategize
better, make an additional call,get better clients, do
(07:06):
partnerships just basically operate so much better in that
business? Feeling like an 8 or a nine out
of 10. How much additional revenue
might you make in that business?Now when I ask people that, they
often say one or two things. They say, oh, it might make
another half $1,000,000 a year or I might double.
I go, OK, well let's take the conservative figure there.
(07:29):
Half $1,000,000 additional revenue you would make if you
stopped drinking. Therefore your drinking habits
are costing you half $1,000,000 a year.
And when I say that it's like the penny drops, it's like this
drop the mic moment. They go, oh, because they were
in their head going well, I'm only spending five thousand
$10,000 a year buying alcohol. No big deal.
(07:52):
That's interesting, but not nearly as interesting as the
money they did not generate because they were drinking.
And if you may, or if I may, letme just do a little calculator
here. I'm pulling out my calculator.
If we go $500,000 / 365 days of the year, every day you choose
to drink is costing you $1369.86.
(08:16):
That is a not a cost that's worth it in my mind.
That doesn't even account for the cost of getting a divorce,
the cost of poor health. If you're a consistent drinker,
you might be more prone to getting a cold or the flu, which
means you can't work in your business or in your job half a
day a month, or a day a month, or two days a month.
(08:39):
Adds up. It adds up and that's what I'm
trying to articulate to people like this drift, this
compounding interest, this deathby 1,000,000 cuts.
It's not obvious in the moment. Each day, each week, maybe each
month, but over many months, over many years and over
(09:00):
decades, man, you get into your 40s and 50s, you're carrying
thirty extra pounds, you're irritable, you're stressed, your
relationships aren't great. Your kids don't really want to
hang out with you, your wife or your husband's kind of like over
you. You're not consciously
communicating, man. You know that stuff adds up, and
(09:20):
usually when you trace it back, you can trace it back in part to
someone's drinking habits. No, it totally makes sense to
me, man. It's, it's interesting because
there's so many parallels between this and how I view
food. I mean, your demographic is
primarily coming from the drinking background.
Mine's coming from a, from a macro nutrient nutrition
standpoint. And there's so many parallels
(09:41):
and I feel like, you know, I, I took a pretty staunch approach
to being strict with keto and just like not having any
carbohydrates period, full stop,no questions asked.
Like they're not serving me, they're not benefiting me.
I'm going to remove them from mylife.
And I've pretty much taken the same approach with alcohol.
I haven't had any drop of alcohol in three years now as
well. And it's, it's just interesting
because when you take that hard and fast approach to anything in
(10:04):
life, you get met with a lot of friction and criticism from the
masses who really doubled down on this moderation approach.
I hear it all the time from nutritional standpoint, like
wouldn't your life be so much better if you moderated your
food, had more of a variety, went out to eat and indulged in
those certain things from time to time?
It wouldn't really affect your composition that much in the
grand scheme of things. But there's like a physiological
(10:25):
component and a psychological component.
And I would venture say the samething is true in regards to
drinking around moderation versus elimination.
Moderation is a myth. That is what many of our clients
tell us and that is they join our 90 day or year long stop
drinking program. We have this program called
(10:46):
Project 90. It's been helping high achievers
for the last 10 years to stop drinking for at least 90 days
and then hopefully we can rewiretheir mindset during those three
months where they get to day 90 and then they choose to live an
alcohol free lifestyle. But those folks tell us that
moderation is a myth. And the reason they say that is
because before they came to us, they tried to moderate.
(11:10):
They said I'll only drink on special occasions, I'll only
drink on weekends, I'll only drink from Thursday onwards.
And of course, it's a very slippery slope.
They start making these deals with themselves, with their
break, and then they don't trusttheir word.
And then it doesn't really matter what they say to
themselves they're going to do. They know they're really not
going to achieve that. And it becomes a very slippery
(11:30):
slope. And so a lot of people who are
drinkers who come to us are stuck on this stop start cycle
where they stop for a while, then they start again, they stop
for a while and they start again.
And that's very frustrating and it causes all of the negative
consequences that inspired them to stop drinking in the first
place. Now, you clearly have made a
choice, Robin, as it relates to carbs.
(11:51):
And I would submit your life feels infinitely better,
probably because you've just don't eat carbs, right?
It's not like you go, oh, OK, sometimes I'll have them,
sometimes I won't. You just have made that choice.
Do you feel like your life is infinitely better for that
choice? Or do you think it might have
been better or would be better if you allowed carbs in 2-3
(12:11):
times a week or on special occasions?
No man, 100% better. I feel like I'm a very strict
person. I'm very disciplined.
But it doesn't like once you do it long enough, it doesn't
really require mental fortitude or discipline anymore.
It could just becomes habitual. And I feel like when you operate
through a lens of having certainnon negotiables in life, whether
(12:32):
that be drinking or the food you're eating with the people
you're interacting with, like having non negotiables that you
do not deviate from gives yourself guardrails.
Like if things are not serving you, eliminate them.
Like you are capable of that. And that seems unsettling for
some, but it's honestly liberating.
Like one, it's empowering knowing that you have that
(12:54):
capacity. And when enough time elapses
with you, you know, living by those principles, it's obvious
that the the result of it is by far much superior than what the,
you know, timely pleasures of indulging in those things would
be in that moment. Yes, as a an acquaintance of
mine by the name of Brandon Carter, he calls himself, I
(13:16):
think, King Keto. You familiar with him, Robert?
Yeah. Yeah.
He has carried a set of food scales with him everywhere he
goes, I think for the past 10 years.
So whenever I saw him out and about, he would always have a
backpack on and I never really noticed it.
I just thought, Oh yeah, that's just just carrying a backpack.
But he always carried a set of scales with him.
He claims he's weighed every single meal that he's ever had
(13:40):
for the past 10 years. Like, he weighs the food.
And for him, that's just what hedoes.
It's not, oh, geez, I've got to weigh my food again.
It's just what he does. And so that way, because he
weighs his food, he understands the macros, the proteins, the
carbs, the fats. He tracks it.
And that helps him make healthy choices for him throughout his
life. And he's ripped, by the way,
like he's very, very fit, seems very fit.
(14:02):
He shared some of his blood work, very high testosterone,
good, good health metrics. But for him, it's just, it's
just what he does. He kind of looks at the rest of
society and goes, what do you mean you don't weigh your food?
I don't understand that. Like, that seems peculiar.
Interestingly, just nine days ago, I started weighing my food
for the first time. I had so much resistance, so
(14:23):
much resistance for 10 years. I remember having friends, I'd
go over to the house and they'reweighing food and I'm like, what
are you doing weighing your food?
Don't you just want to just eat food and just get on with it?
He's like, no man, you got to like, you got to track your
macros. I'm not track your macros.
That sounds so dull. So extra work, just like just
like eat a whole lot of protein and some fat and limit your
(14:43):
carbs and you'll be fine. But now 9 days into this thing,
Robert, I got to tell you, I am sold on this idea, at least
initially, of weighing my food because it what is it doing?
It's educating me as to what foods have what carbs and fats
and proteins. And in nine days I've lost.
(15:04):
Let me look at my whiteboard here.
I've lost 7 lbs. I've lost 7 lbs in nine days.
So 7 lbs in nine days just tracking my food and weighing my
food. Now I'm not saying everyone
needs to go and buy a set of scales and weigh their food, but
I'm it's interesting to me that something that I resisted for a
(15:24):
decade, I just started doing it and now it feels very simple and
very normal and and now I hope it'll just be the default.
Yeah, 100%, man. And like, I don't want to
suggest that everybody has to weigh their food, but if they're
not happy with where they're at compositionally, like it makes
the most sense. Like that is low hanging fruit.
That is something that can be measured.
(15:44):
If it's measured, it can be managed and you have 100%
control over it. And most people have no clue
what their true intake is. They may be way overeating away
under eating and they just are clueless.
They're ignorant to it because they don't know basic
macronutrient profiles and what certain foods contain.
And the same is probably true with alcohol.
People don't realize, you know, what the carbohydrate or caloric
(16:06):
content of that alcohol is. They often times have two drinks
and lose count before they know what they've had eight.
They only think they're having four.
So like that adds up. And from a habitual standpoint,
man, it's interesting because I got a three-year old kid right
now and you know, we, every night, we do the whole bedtime
bath time, brush your teeth routine.
And he resists brushing your teeth, brushing his teeth like,
(16:27):
like crazy. Like it's a, it's an ordeal.
And I'm sure every kid ever was like that.
But now you and I would brush our teeth like it's just, no,
it's just part of the day. Like you just are healthy.
You have basic habits. You don't think it's weird, You
don't think it's anything obscure or you know what a
hurdle to overcome. It's just normal.
(16:48):
And the same thing is true with weighing your food, tracking
your macros, not drinking alcohol, going to the gym, like
all those things that serve you well, you just do it
consistently enough, see the, the fruits of that labor.
And then it's like, OK, why would I not do this?
Yeah, especially if you are looking to make gains with your
health. Alcohol doesn't serve you at
all. There is 0 nutritional benefit
(17:09):
to that and so even 1 seemingly innocent drink a night is enough
to cause grey and white matter damage in the brain.
In other words, brain degeneration.
There was a study out of the UK in 2022 of 35,000 middle adults
and they looked at those 35,000 adults having one drink a night.
Brain degeneration. Crazy people don't realise that.
(17:31):
And then from a caloric point ofview, you have one glass of
Chardonnay or a white wine or a Riesling or something that's the
equivalent of having one doughnut and a packet of crisps.
I mean, people don't understand that.
They just think, Oh yeah, just aglass of wine, that's fine.
You're literally drinking calories.
And those calories will then turn into sugar.
And what happens is that then itincreases your appetite.
(17:53):
It leaves you with this feeling that you now want to eat more
than what you already have. Think about it like anecdotally.
When you drink, you get hunger. You want to eat more, and so now
you're eating more food that youordinarily would not have eaten,
packing on more calories. Not to mention the body now has
to go to work to break down the toxins from that alcohol.
(18:16):
Most people are drinking alcoholclose to bed.
One drink is enough to compromise your sleep.
Your body is now working at a time when it's supposed to be
resting and that now affects your metabolism, it affects your
fat loss goals, it affects your affects your muscle building
goals. It affects your mood, it affects
your stress and anxiety levels, it affects your outlook on life.
(18:40):
All of those kind of things which then can influence your
behaviours such as, oh, I'm not going to track my food because
I'm tired or I'm not going to beconscious about my food today
because I'm tired. I just need a little pick me up.
So let me just have some pancakes and some whipped cream
at IHOP just to get a bit of a boost.
Or let me have this can of Coke or I'll have this Kit Kat or
this Snickers bar and so forth and so forth and so forth.
(19:03):
So what I'm trying to articulatehere is even 1 seemingly
innocent glass of alcohol per night is enough to really
compromise many areas of your life.
Totally, ma'am. Some people will try and make an
argument for there being certainhealth benefits to red wine, for
instance. I think typically they're
referring to resveratrol. But when you look at that like
(19:25):
the, the, the positive of that is not outweighed by the
negative of the toxins that it'scoming with alongside.
Like there's healthier ways to get resveratrol and other
antoxidants than through liquor as a medium.
You'd actually have to drink almost half a barrel of wine to
get the benefits of the res vitrol.
(19:48):
Like literally you need to drinkvast quantities of wine before
any of the health benefits from the res vitrol kicks in.
And by that stage you'll be shitfaced, drunk and or dead and
all of the negative consequenceshave come into your life because
of that. The other thing is, is that
(20:10):
there was a study, or there werestudies, or rather they were
claims that came out in the late80s, early 90s, that a glass of
wine at night was good for your heart health.
It actually originated from a 1991 episode of 60 Minutes, You
know, the tip television news show 60 Minutes.
Yeah. So in 1991, there was a
journalist by the name of Molly Shaffer, and he interviewed this
(20:32):
French scientist who also happened to have a vineyard.
He came from a family of wine makers.
And this scientist was the one who put forward on the 60
Minutes television program that a glass of red, red wine may
have health benefits to your heart.
And at the end of this 60 Minutes episode, the journalist,
(20:53):
Morley Schaeffer, had a glass ofred wine.
He turned to the camera and he said to the 30 million Americans
who were watching the episode that night, So the secret to a
great life might lie in this glass of wine.
Cheers. And then he went to sip it.
The following day, US airlines reported selling out a red wine
(21:15):
on domestic flights. And in the 30 days after that
episode aired, there was a 40% spike in red wine sales across
the country. And over the course of one year,
a 32% spike in red wine sales. All because of 160 Minutes
episode in 1991 where the basis of the claims was from 1 French
(21:38):
scientist who happened to be a wine maker.
The following year, 60 Minutes re aired the same episode.
You know, sometimes they just say, hey, we're going to show
you this episode from a year ago, right?
Same thing happened next day. US airlines sold out of red
wine. Red wine sales spiked again, and
people just latched on to this claim that red wine's good for
(22:01):
the heart. There's just one problem,
though, Robert. It's been found that that claim
simply wasn't true. They've been repeated studies
over the years now over the lastthree decades, with the benefit
of more science, more studies, more rigorous testing.
And all of the studies now show that there is not any health
(22:22):
benefit to any amount of alcohol.
That's it. In fact, in 2023, there was a
Professor Tim Stockwell from theUniversity of Victoria in
Canada, and he studied 107 previously published studies
claiming that a glass of wine was good for your heart.
And those studies involved 5 million study participants.
(22:44):
And what professor, professors, and what Professor Stockwell
found was that all of those 107 previously published studies
were either quote, skewed and orbiased.
In other words, the people who are funding those studies had
direct links to big alcohol, whether it be liquor companies
(23:06):
directly or associations associated with big liquor.
So I want to really implore yourlistener to do their own
research on this. However, I can tell you I've
been researching this now for 10years.
I wrote a book called Clear which just came out in 2025 and
I do a whole chapter on this, breaking down and breaking apart
(23:26):
the claim that any amount of alcohol is good for you.
I wouldn't imagine any of my listener demographic believes
alcohol is benefit. Honestly, I don't think most the
population would would make thatargument.
I mean, maybe there are some biohackers out there that are
really doubling down the resveratrol and red wine, but I
would assume that most people don't honestly think they're
(23:47):
doing something healthy when they're drinking alcohol because
most people are drinking, you know, sugary Latin, you know,
you know, mixed, mixed drinks and beer and stuff like that in
the 1st place. I feel like to really get to the
root of the problem, it's much more of a psychological issue
than it is a physiological belief.
I'd be curious to get your thoughts on this but I would
assume like why do you think people drink in the 1st place
(24:11):
and work with the people that you have?
It starts when you're a child, when your parents or the adult
figures in your life said to you, no, no, little Robert, you
can't drink. You can drink when you're older.
And in that moment, the adult figure in your life implanted
the idea that alcohol was a riteof passage, that alcohol is
something that you get to do when you are an adult.
(24:32):
And so all of a sudden we're creating this kind of like, oh,
this alcohol, this thing is something that when I get to
grow up, I get to drink it. So we're implanting this idea
that it's desirable. Whereas in reality, alcohol is
simply attractively packaged poison, it continued.
Then in our teenage years, we goto colleges, go to universities,
(24:53):
and there are smiling assassins everywhere.
And a smiling assassin are your friends or the waiters or
waitresses in the restaurant or the barman or bar woman at the
bar who was smiling and said, hey, can I get you a drink?
Hi there, Robert. Hi, Mr. Sykes, Hi, Mr. Swanik,
can I get you started with a glass of 10 lbs of unwanted body
fat? Hi there.
(25:13):
Can I get you a glass of regret in the morning?
And so they're, these smiles areon people's faces.
And so we make the connection and the association between
alcohol equals happiness and bonding and connection and
romance and fun and celebration and not drinking alcohol equals
(25:36):
deprivation and dull and boredomand pain.
That's the association. It's cultural conditioning.
And then we have these Hollywoodcelebrities like The Rock,
Dwayne Johnson and George Clooney and Ryan Reynolds.
There's much to admire about those three celebrities who I
just referenced. They're very healthy, they're
(25:57):
very fit. They've done a lot for charity.
They help a lot of people. They're very positive.
However, they are peddling poison because all three of
those celebrities have their ownliquor companies.
The Rock and George Clooney havetequila brands.
Ryan Reynolds has aviation gin and they are peddling poison, no
(26:20):
question. History will not be kind to
them. We'll be looking back in 20-30
years, looking upon alcohol withthe same level of disdain we
currently do cigarettes. But again, it's this, it's this
cultural conditioning. You're stressed, have a drink.
Celebrate, have a drink. Create romance, Let's have a
drink. It's the Super Bowl, catching up
(26:41):
with the boys, let's have a drink.
Oh, it's the wedding, we have totoast the bride and groom to the
bride and groom, let's toast with some champagne.
And on and on and on it goes. So that's why it's so
challenging for people to finally break free from alcohol,
because our friends, our family,our colleagues, our staff and
(27:03):
culture in general think that ifwe choose not to drink, we must
be an alcoholic, we must be a wemust have a problem.
Robert must have a problem. No society has a problem.
That's what I submit. No, I, I agree on all counts,
man. I mean, I feel like looking at
it as a poison is totally accurate.
(27:24):
I mean, from a biological standpoint that makes perfect
sense that science is clear. So it's interesting to see how
the society, cultural, you know,integration of it all plays out.
And I don't know what the solution is.
Like, I, I mean, the prohibitionarea didn't really go over too
well. So I don't think not having it,
not allowing it and, you know, making it illegal is necessary
(27:44):
the right way. But it's like we got to just
change the way people think about it in the first place.
And I think I feel like society is becoming more health
conscious. And that may be because that's
just kind of the echo chamber that I may find myself in with a
nutrition and performance brand.But I feel like, I mean, fewer
people are certainly smoking these days than, you know, 50
(28:06):
years ago. They're all vaping now, which is
not any better. But hopefully the tides will
turn and people will recognize that OK, alcohol isn't really
serving me either, but I don't know when that tipping point
happens. We're moving increasingly closer
to it. Generation Z has never drunk
(28:27):
less compared to other generations, so they are turning
their back on alcohol. Increasingly, liquor brands are
coming out with 0% alternatives.Heineken, for example, has a
product called Heineken 0, and in 2023 it attributed for 11% of
(28:48):
all Heineken sales. That's extraordinary.
That is an extraordinarily high amount of sales of 0% beer.
I see advertising for that now in Champions League football
games, on the billboards, on theon the sideline as the Champions
League teams are playing. It's at Heineken Zero.
I see Heineken 0 sponsoring Formula One teams now.
(29:11):
I remember I first started this organization which is called
Alcohol Free Lifestyle and we help high achievers stop
drinking. I started this organization back
in 2015. I wouldn't say I was ridiculed,
but people was like, what are you doing?
You what? You help people stop drinking.
Why would people pay for that? Why don't they just quit?
Just stop. Oh, you help Alcoholics, do you?
(29:32):
I'm like, Oh no, no, just help people who want to cut back or
stop. They're like, but why?
That was 10 years ago, but today, 2025, and I write about
this in my book Clear, there's atidal wave of change happening
in people's attitudes towards alcohol and towards not drinking
(29:52):
alcohol. 10 years ago people were embarrassed to say that
they didn't drink. They would hide it from people.
I know I did when I first stopped drinking, I hid it from
people for the 1st 30 days or so.
But now people are actually proud to say that they're not
drinking alcohol. It doesn't mean that they're an
alcoholic in the term alcoholic in the lazy way that people
(30:13):
think of this term alcoholic. It doesn't mean they've got a
problem, doesn't mean that they're rock bottom.
It doesn't mean anything other than they just want to live a
healthy life. And culturally, that is becoming
much more the norm and has increasingly done so in the past
three years, is what I've observed.
Yeah, I would agree with that for sure.
I feel like social media and media in general has is it's
(30:35):
obviously a double edged sword. I mean people use it to see
people like The Rock promoting their tequila brand and and it,
you know, puts that in a favourable light.
But I feel like also people recognize that there are high
achievers out there that are proud to announce they're not
drinking alcohol and they want to emulate that as well.
So it is that double edged sword.
But I feel like they're like when my generation, for
(30:58):
instance, I'm 33 and I mean, I came into the world before
social media was there before, Imean, there was no cell phones
really. But now, like everybody, all of
my peer group, like I had my buddy text me other day and he's
like, man, I'm, I got to stop drinking as much.
I got to clean up my diet. I'm putting on too much weight.
My testosterone's down. And I'm like, yeah, man, you got
(31:19):
to fight that, Dad. But it's going to happen to you.
It's going to sneak up and get you.
And it's like that generation isgoing through that chapter in
life where they don't have, you know, the high testosterone they
did when they were in their 20s.They're not as active as they
were. They're sitting at a desk job
more frequently than not. And it's like they are
recognizing, you know, their their physical downfall and just
how they feel overall. They don't, they don't have as
(31:39):
much zeal for life. But that generation can also see
via social media and other platforms, the Internet, that,
hey, look, there are better alternatives out there.
You don't have to drink alcohol to be successful.
So I feel like from that generation on, they're becoming
much more awakened to the fact that, you know, we can go
through life without going out with the guys for brewskies
(32:00):
afterwards, you know? I think a lot of us also are
seeing what could be the effectsof alcohol on our parents or in
some cases grandparents, becauseour parents and grandparents
drink considerably more than what this current generation
drinks and what Generation Z is drinking.
(32:22):
Anecdotally, my mother is married to an 82 year old man
and he has dementia and he was alifelong drinker.
Now, he wasn't a lifelong drinker of, you know, 6 pack
every night and a bottle of wineevery night, but, you know, at
least two or three drinks a night most nights of the week
(32:43):
for 70 years. Well, let's say 60 years.
Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. 65 years is probably
the most accurate figure, I would say probably started
drinking when he was 15. He's now 83, right?
Doesn't drink so much now because he's got dementia, but
65 years drinking a poison whichhas been shown to destroy matter
(33:05):
in the brain, grey and white matter in the brain now I can't
prove it. I'm not a doctor, I'm not a
surgeon. But anecdotally, my suspicions
are that his drinking habits at least contributed to his
dementia, either in the speed with which it came on or the
severity or the pace with which it's now developing.
Again, I say that hesitantly because I'm not a doctor, but I
(33:29):
see it like I, I see anecdotal evidence everywhere.
People who I know have been drinking for many years, many
decades, they are deteriorating at a rapid pace.
And you know, some might argue, well, you know, maybe though
they're deteriorating at a record pace just because it's
age. It's just the aging process.
But from what I understand aboutmodern medicine, we can really
(33:53):
slow down that aging process. We don't have to be 83 and have
dementia and be 4050 lbs overweight and walking with a
cane. If we instill good habits over
many years and decades. We can be 80 and fit and mobile
and doing push ups and having all of our cognitive faculties.
(34:15):
Totally agree. I mean, I've got my grandparents
right now. I mean, my granny's showing
signs of Alzheimer's dementia. And I think a large, you know,
reason that she's going through that is because not so much that
she drank a lot, but because sheeats way too many carbohydrates
and sugars, not nearly enough proteins and quality fats and is
under eating. So she's super frail.
She's lost muscle. She had a, she fell the other
(34:36):
day. So she's been bruised up for the
past three weeks and just massive muscle loss.
And you know, that sugar is not too different from alcohol, how
it's metabolized and its effect on the brain.
So, you know, I think that makesperfect sense as a contributor
to Alzheimer's, dementia, whether it be too many sugars or
(34:56):
too much alcohol. I mean, I worry about like my,
my dad, he's super healthy. He's very active.
He's sailing around the world right now in his retirement,
like going after his dreams. But you know, he has a casual
glass of bourbon more nights than not.
I don't think I've ever seen himdrunk my whole life.
And he's very capable and incredibly intelligent.
(35:17):
He's a professor. But it's like, man, the
compounding effect of having that one glass of bourbon or
Scotch, whatever it is, you know, more often than not
through the next 30-40, fifty years, it's like that's, that's
not, that's not going to bode well for you.
There's a book called Outwittingthe Devil by the author Napoleon
(35:37):
Hill, and it's the same author who wrote the book Think and
Grow Rich. And in Outwitting the Devil,
Napoleon Hill says the biggest threat to a human is the drift.
And the drift he describes as just allowing the mediocrity of
your life take over. It's like just drifting through
(36:00):
some mediocrity like a river, like a piece of wood in a river
that's going downstream. It's just drifts over months,
over years, over decades, until you wake up 1 morning and you're
like, my kids don't want to phone me, talk to me.
(36:21):
I got divorced, 40 lbs overweight.
I got to go to the doctor's office twice a week because I
got high blood pressure or acid reflux.
I'm isolated, I'm lonely, I'm unhappy.
I don't have a positive outlook.Asleep is crap.
(36:42):
I'm just blah. That's what's possible.
That's the drift that Napoleon Hill was talking about.
And as I said earlier, to me it feels like death by 1000 cuts.
One cut, don't notice it, 2 cuts, three cuts, maybe even 100
cuts, Don't really notice it as it's happening.
But over time, just like compound interest, it becomes
(37:06):
death by 1000 cuts. And so I hope that this is a
wake up call for many, even if you can just re explore your
relationship with alcohol and cut back.
Even though many of our clients in our Project 90 program tell
us that moderation is a myth, Ifyou haven't yet attempted this
and you're just wanting to dip your toe in the water, just
(37:27):
cutting back will be beneficial.A. 100% do you feel like, I feel
like they're a lot of people drink because I mean, honestly,
it's just a form of pacification.
Like they want to relax, kick their feet up and just be numb
to the day-to-day stressors of the world.
(37:49):
And they become so beholden to that way of accomplishing that
task that they'll that's just what they they do.
That's just their that's their habit.
When you're trying to get peopleto step away from alcohol,
reduce it or eliminate entirely,what would be a good stop gap in
its place? Is there a substance that fills
(38:10):
that void or is it a habit? Or is it just totally a
different framework and way of thinking all together?
Most people are drinking to relieve themselves of a feeling
that is very unpleasant and thatcould be stress, could be
anxiety or could be fatigue. So imagine if you didn't have as
(38:31):
much or any stress, anxiety or fatigue, The craving for a drink
would dissipate or disappear. I asked one of the world's
leading addiction experts at Cambridge University in the
United Kingdom. His name's Professor David
Bellan, and I asked him what supplement would you recommend
to eliminate cravings? What supplement would you
(38:54):
recommend to reduce stress and anxiety and fatigue which leads
to cravings? He said two things, exercise and
human connection. And I said what he said.
It's not a sexy answer, but exercise is the way that you
(39:16):
reduce stress, anxiety and therefore cravings.
Therefore, you exercise, you reduce stress, you reduce
exercise, you reduce cravings, you're less likely to drink
alcohol, physical connection, having a robust group of
friends, being in conversation with people.
(39:40):
He said during the COVID-19 pandemic, people were isolated,
they were at home. Drinking habits increased
exponentially. People were drinking more
alcohol than they'd ever drunk because they were at home, they
were isolated. And 4-5 years on from that, I
guess you could say my business is benefiting from those
(40:03):
devastating circumstances because I'm inundated with high
achievers all over the world wanting to engage my
professional services to supportthem stopping drinking because
they created or embedded that habit during the pandemic,
because they lacked social connection.
So certainly Professor David Bellin's submission was that the
(40:26):
antidote is exercise. Or exercise more and create a
great group of friends and allies.
One of the world's longest humanstudies is out of Harvard
University. And they started studying these
what were then late teens, early20s men back in the 1930s.
And many of them, if not all of them have died now.
(40:48):
But what they found as they checked in with these men over
7580 years before they died was what's the biggest contributing
factor to your happiness? And they all said the quality of
their relationships. So if one of the world's leading
addiction experts today in the modern world, Professor David
(41:09):
Bell and from Cambridge University is saying exercise
and human connection and the longest running human study that
we know of out of Harvard University shows that men said
the biggest contributor to theirhappiness was the quality of
their relationships. I would submit the exercise and
create a great group of friends and that might or will likely
(41:33):
destroy your drinking habit. And probably worthwhile to
create a group of friends that are not avid drinkers to kind of
double that as well. Because I feel like so many
people just get trapped in the people they're surrounded by.
And if you surround yourself with people that default to
drinking as the form of entertainment, it's going to be
much harder to stay steer clear from it.
(41:54):
But if you surround yourself with people that see the
benefit, not excessive drinking or not at all, it's going to be
much easier to refrain from it as well.
So 100% agree on all counts there man.
What do you think about relapse though?
Like people that you know successfully go through, you
know, significant time block without like what is the
catalyst for them that start again?
(42:15):
Is it just not enough exercise and time?
Aquatic people. Most people are doing these
things like 30 day challenges, dry July, sober October, dry
January. You've probably heard of those
now. They're fine.
In theory, someone's going to stop drinking for 30 days.
(42:36):
Sounds pretty good. However, long term, they're
incredibly ineffective because what happens is most people who
go into those 30 day challenges are experiencing deprivation
during those 30 days. So they're still identifying
alcohol as the reward and not drinking alcohol as deprivation
(42:59):
and pain, which is why they're going, oh, on day 22, Oh, I'm on
day 26, just three days to go. Oh jeez, I can't wait to have a
drink on day 30 to celebrate. Might you can't wait to have a
drink on day 30 to celebrate. What was the point of you doing
these 30 days in the first placeif you're still associating
alcohol with joy and pleasure and not drinking alcohol with
(43:21):
pain and suffering? And So what invariably happens
is they get to day 30 and what do they do?
They celebrate with what? A drink.
And then they return to the samelevel of drinking that inspired
them to do a 30 day challenge inthe 1st place.
So most people are stopping drinking, using willpower, white
(43:43):
knuckling it, trying really, really, really hard not to
drink. Instead of I get to be alcohol
free, I choose to be alcohol free.
I'm choosing this as a lifestyle.
The name of my company and organization, we coach high
achievers all over the world to stop drinking.
The name of that organization isAlcohol Free Lifestyle.
(44:07):
Now, I strategically chose the lifestyle word to be part of my
company's name because that's what this is.
It's a lifestyle, a style of life.
This isn't being sober, being inrecovery and being clean and
white knuckling it and using grit and surrendering to a
(44:27):
higher power and being forced tosay hi, my name's James and I'm
an alcoholic. I say BS to all of that stuff,
which is why we don't use the term sober or sobriety or
relapse or any of that kind of stuff in our coaching.
We're inviting people to choose an alcohol free lifestyle.
They get to live this way. It's a choice they get to and
(44:51):
it's fun and it's preferable. So if I can help people to
rewire their mindset during these 90 days from man, this is
hard. This is hard to oh, I love this.
I'm going to keep going with this.
(45:11):
This is my new lifestyle and this is like compound interest.
This is just going to get betterand better over time.
I am gloriously happy choosing an alcohol free lifestyle.
Then there is no relapse to use your verbiage.
There's just lifestyle choices. That's the only way to go, man.
Like I'd, I'd take the same stance when it comes to
(45:32):
nutrition. It's like there's all these
crazy, you know, fat loss cuts and you know, just all these,
these hacks that people make andthese crash diets.
And it's like you got to adopt something as a lifestyle.
Like if you're having a white knuckle it, then you're not
going to be successful with the long term.
So having that long game mentality towards it all.
(45:53):
I mean, then I mean, it's got tobe sustainable and you got to be
excited about the direction it'shitting the trajectory you're
on. But once you make that switch,
like it's, it's not, it's not draining, it's not tax and you
don't feel like you're deprived or sacrificing anything and like
you're excited about the future and what lies ahead.
And you're excited to wake up and you have a reason to wake
up. And yeah, man, when you can make
that shift when it comes to yourtraining activities, your food
(46:16):
that you put in your mouth, the drink that you consume, like the
doors just start opening. So IA 100% agree.
May I ask you a question about carbohydrates?
By all means. When I've been weighing my food
in these past nine days, I've been advised by a coach on the
(46:37):
macros. So 40 grams of protein, I'm
sorry, 40 grams of fat, 180 grams of protein.
And let me just check My FitnessPal, how many calories, how many
carbohydrates? 170 grams of carbohydrates.
So that's the goal for me being in a cutting phase.
So I'm looking to cut some visceral fat and the macros are
(46:59):
180 grams of protein, 170 grams of carbohydrates and 40 grams of
fat per day for 30 days. First 30 days and then we
reassess. I'm loving eating the protein in
the fat and the carbohydrates. I'm finding I'm really only
getting from some of the vegetables that I'm eating.
I'm not eating processed crap oranything like that.
(47:21):
I'm getting some carbs from a few dates.
I've had a little bit of rice inthe last 9 days, but mostly the
carbs are coming from things like broccoli and some
vegetables. So in keto, do you refrain from
eating any of the vegetables that have calories in them?
Because you said that you are just 00 carbohydrates.
(47:44):
If carbohydrates are in vegetables or salads, do you
refrain from eating those vegetables and salads?
I don't eat a lot of vegetation.You can certainly eat vegetables
on a ketogenic diet, especially low glycemic index vegetables
that, you know, like your dark leafy greens.
You just want to avoid anything like the rice and the breads and
(48:05):
the pastas and things like that.I don't need any fruit really,
because, you know, fructose is, you know, prevalent in fruit and
there's quite a bit of sugar, natural sugars, but sugar is
nonetheless in fruit. So I don't really eat much of
that. But the vast majority of my food
intake is coming from quality fats and proteins, and my total
carbohydrate consumption is normally South of 30 grams a
(48:26):
day, typically under 20 grams a day.
So a handful of carbs from tracesources like that in vegetables,
but not really anything that's going to be significant.
Got it. OK.
So it's not like you're saying 0% carbohydrates every day
because you are getting 20 or 30grams of carbs each day just by
(48:46):
naturally eating some of those other foods.
It's more like. And there's like there's trace
carbs in eggs, you know, So likeif you eat enough eggs, you can
have some trace carbs. Adding up from that, there's a
little bit of trace carbs and heavy cream.
I mean, some people do a, a really strict carnivore diet
where they're pretty much consuming, depending on how
strict they want to take it, exclusively beef, water and
salt, in which case you would beconsuming 0 grams of
(49:08):
carbohydrates and your body can produce the minimal amount of
carbohydrates necessary for the brain internally via
gluconeogenesis. So you don't honestly need to
consume any carbohydrates. Your body can metabolize all
that within itself. You're if you're eating 170
grams, 180 grams of carbohydrates, you're still
using carbohydrate metabolism, glucose metabolism to provide
(49:32):
energy for your day-to-day function.
Whereas I'm taking a fat metabolism, fat adapted approach
and primarily using lipids and ketones as my primary fuel
substrate. Got it.
So knowing now that I've been advised 180 grams of protein,
170 grams of carbs and 40 grams of fat, if you were to advise me
(49:57):
on increasing my fat burning potential, what would you
propose amending from those those macros?
So how much do you weigh? 180 lbs.
Yeah, I started at 186 and now I'm 179.4.
OK, so he your coach recommendedyou take in base basically 1g of
(50:22):
protein per pound of body weight, which is a typical,
typical recommendation. But now if we look at your total
caloric intake, 180 grams of carbs, 170 grams of protein and
100 or 40 grams of fat, that's only 17160 calories.
So that's not a whole lot of food.
I typically try to have as high a caloric intake at the onset as
(50:46):
possible and then gradually taper that down so that my
metabolism is able to acclimate accordingly.
If you're doing more of a short term aggressive, you know,
weight loss approach, which I wouldn't typically recommend,
but if you are going that route,you are going to have to be more
aggressive with that total calorie count.
But 40 grams of fat is not very much at all, and a lot of
competitors and people going through a fat loss phase by
(51:08):
keeping their total dietary fat intake so low, if they do that
for too long, they'll start to see some repercussions
hormonally speaking, because youneed more dietary fat to
optimize hormone health. So if I wanted to get you more
from a fat adapted standpoint, I'd probably bump your calories
up a little bit higher and then basically invert the
(51:28):
carbohydrates and the fat. So keep your carbs super low and
your fat significantly higher and you can even keep those
calories isocaloric. Like you could pretty much swap
out and keep the calories the same but then just swap out that
macronutrient distribution if you wanted to become more fat
adapted. Thank you very much.
I appreciate that. Yeah, I'm told that the strategy
(51:49):
is the 30 days of this as a cut to try and lean up.
And then I'm told that as soon as I've kind of stripped most of
the undesirable fat off my body,then we increase the calories
and we change the macros and we go into a build a build phase.
That seems to be the strategy that's been communicated to me.
(52:11):
There is definitely benefit to having a dedicated build phase
and a dedicated cut phase. I mean, a lot of people try and
just, you know, do like a lean gain or like a like they're
competing for another. In order to optimize muscle
growth, you ideally need to be in a surplus.
In order to optimize fat loss, you ideally need to be in a
deficit. So trying to do both
simultaneously is just like being stuck in purgatory, limbo
(52:32):
land. So it is great that you're on a
dedicated cutting phase and thenyou're going to, you know,
follow that with a dedicated building phase.
I would just change the macro profile if you're trying to do
it from a ketogenic standpoint. But there's lots of different
ways to skin a cat. I'm just biased and partial
toward the ketogenic approach. Yeah.
Well, thank you very much. Sounds like I'm not doing
(52:52):
anything too wrong anyway. No, no, not at all.
Well, sweet man, I can sit here and talk with you all day long
about the mindset component, butwon't be respectful your time.
Where do people go to dive deeper into your world and just
get more information and get your book?
Thank you. Yeah, the book is available at
alcoholfreelifestyle.com/clear or anywhere online where books
(53:14):
are sold, including Amazon. For example, the book name is
clear, the only neuroscience based approach to help people
quit drinking without willpower,a a or rehab.
My website is Alcohol free lifestyle.com and I referenced
our 90 day stop drinking process, which the University of
(53:37):
Washington studied in a scientific study back in 2023
and found a 98% reduction in drinking from those who went
through that Project 90 process.If you'd like to learn more
about that, you can just go to alcoholfreelifestyle.com/project
90. And then I'm quite active on
Instagram as well. I kind of put out a lot of
(53:57):
videos and tips and tricks to reduce your drinking, so you
could always follow me there, which is just my name at James
Swannick. Awesome, awesome.
I will certainly link out and make it easy for people to find
you. You are fighting the good fights
Sir. I appreciate you doing what
you're doing. Too many people drink way too
much out there, so you are moving the needle in the right
direction. Well, thank you, Robert.
(54:18):
I appreciate that as are you as it relates to people's health
and and nutrition. So I appreciate you as well,
Sir.
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