December 19, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode of Save A Pooch, we're joined by Rachel Horton, Director of Saginaw County Animal Care & Control (SCACC) in Michigan. This conversation digs into how a municipal shelter can pivot from reactive enforcement to proactive care. Rachel Horton walks us through SCACC's playbook: early-intervention that keeps pets with their families, community pet-food pantries and access-to-care partnerships, volunteer activation that multiplies impact, and real safeguards for staff against compassion fatigue. We'll also discuss tricky topics—what "live release" does and doesn't measure, why poverty drives pet relinquishment, and how to build trust with residents who are wary of "animal control."
EPISODE NOTES: From Animal Control to Community Care with Rachel Horton
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EPISODE NOTES: From Animal Control to Community Care with Rachel Horton
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/save-a-pooch-rescue-dog-welfare-pet-life-radio-original--6669238/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to say a boos on pate Life Radio. I
am Beverly Isla, your host. Thank you for listening in Today.
Our special guest is Rachel Orton, director of the Saginaw
County Animal Care and Control in Michigan. Now, Rachel is
redefining what modern animal welfare looks like, such as shifting
the focus from enforcement and numbers to prevention, education and compassion.
(00:31):
And just some stats here. Since January twenty twenty four,
the SCACC Tongue Twister has provided a safety net for
one thousand and thirty five lost and homeless pets. They
completed seven hundred and thirty four adoptions, two hundred and
six reunifications, and prevented five hundred and thirty seven potential
(00:53):
owner surrenders through early intervention. So helping families and pet
skate together and under Rachel's leadership, the live release rate
has risen to seventy six point seven percent, up from
fifty five and twenty twenty three. So when we get
back from these messages, we'll be joined by Rachel Horton.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
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Speaker 1 (01:56):
Let's talk pets on petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Welcome back to save a Pooch. We are talking with
Rachel Horton, director of Saegonov County Animal Care and Control. Rachel,
thank you so much for being here today. Not to
set the stage, can you share a brief overview of
this sca CC mission and how your approach has evolved
since January twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Yeah, so, first, thank you so much for having me.
I'm honored to be here. Since becoming director in January
of twenty twenty four, I think that our our mission
really it didn't change, like the actual mission statement didn't
change but the way that we went about it did so. Ultimately,
(02:44):
our mission is to safeguard the well being of animals
and the community through care and adoption and proactive animal
control services, which means that we are providing services to
both people and pats. And I think ultimately that really
shifted for us because we went from a really heavily
law enforced based organization to a community proactive organization. Instead
(03:12):
of writing those citations and trying to gather as many
animals as we could on the street, we started changing
the way that we operated because writing citations wasn't doing
anything for us. We weren't getting any further ahead. So
we really had to change our approach and be more
community based and proactive in our approach because we were
(03:33):
increasing our numbers, but ultimately we weren't helping more people.
We were just writing more citations and still having the
same old problems.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, that's an undertaking for you to do. That's amazing.
And because of like animal care the way it's portrayed,
and like you know, most cartoon movies, I can imagine
like the ship that needs to happen in the perception.
Now you've been reframing animal control as animal care kodles
for that. Now, practically what changes when a shelter adopts
(04:01):
that mindset. There's so much behind it.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I could go into like so many little caveats of
what you just said, but there's so much behind it.
I think when you consider, you know, animal control and
going from that old school dogcatter mentality to I'm going
to be proactive and I want to provide care to
people and animals like I don't want to just go
out there and collect dogs off the street. I want
(04:28):
to have conversations. I want to serve my community. I
want to help them be better dog ammers, and that
that's where the shift is. All the shift goes into,
you know, more of community policing and giving services and
education and help instead of just punishing them for something
that they might not understand or just you know, they
(04:48):
want to do by right by their pet, but it's
a lack of resources. So it all really starts there
and having those conversations with your community and seeing how can.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You help them Exactly, yes, answers. My next question basically
is because your community investment in the animal where while
friend how that looks on a day to day When
you mentioned it, is all about communication, and I mean
as you go, I guess I don't want to say
collecting the dogs out the street. That sounds not so good.
But do you find when you're connecting with the owners
(05:19):
that they're they have like a hostile attitude I guess
towards animal control.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I think that it's not necessarily a hostile attitude all
the time. Sometimes I think they're just leiery of a
person in uniform door, yeah, because you know we are
coming to your door unannounced and you don't know why,
and then we just kind of start off really strong
with all these questions are coming off as kind of accusatory,
(05:46):
and that doesn't work for people, right. I think if
you approach and go, hey, I'm I'm here from animal
care and control and I want to learn more about
you and your pet because I want to help you,
you know, just start off that way and appearing friendly
and wanting to help you get so much further with them.
And the more you can keep people talking and having
(06:07):
a conversation, the better off you're going to be. And
that's in any kind of law enforcement field, right, because
they're giving more information. So when you start having conversations
with people and you start just giving them a moment
to be heard, you learn so much more about the
situation and how you can help.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And they find that they're more open to their perspectives.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yeah, but you know, I think that once you start
having that conversation of oh, you you know, you've had
a problem with your dog, or you can't contain your
dog because they keep escaping out of their leash or
their harness, or there's a hole in your fence or
you know, whatever the reason is. And then you start
offering some suggestions, or you have a tether in your
(06:48):
truck and you give it to them, or you have
a collar and you give it to them, and you
give them a warning, and you know, just say hey,
I'm just trying to help you that I don't want
to see your dog get hit by a car. I
don't want to see it picked up by animal control. Like,
it goes so much further. And then the next time,
if you do have you know, more contact with that person,
they remember those conversations, they remember how they were treated,
(07:11):
and they're much more likely to come to you for
help when they need it versus letting things get really bad.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Right right, Oh, that's amazing that you can leave based
off of that kind of compassion, which is a good
segue into how are you empowering volunteers and community members
to be part of the solution rather than just being spectators.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
I think that you have to invite everyone to have
some kind of partnership or relationship with you, and if
you put out what your goals are and what you need,
people and often can jump to help you in ways
that you never expected. But you have to be extremely
vulnerable and transparent and put out what you need. You
have to identify your goals and share those with people
(07:53):
because a lot of people want to help and they
don't know how to. So I think you really just
have to take advantage of people's strengths, you know, especially
and your volunteers and your staff. Play to their strengths.
What are they good at, what are they passionate about? Like,
let them do that work because they're passionate about it
and it doesn't feel like work. You know, people in
the community, your partnerships, when you put out really big,
lofty goals, they understand what you're trying to move toward
(08:16):
and they're more likely to help you versus internalizing those
So I think if you're open to just being really
vulnerable and transparent and sharing everything pretty much upfront and
on the table, you'll get so much further. But also
people kind of start gathering to you, and partnerships come
very naturally. At that point, it just becomes they're kind
of rolling in, sometimes faster than you can even handle,
(08:38):
because now you've put it out there and then the
community does want to help.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That is an ideal. That is an ideal, ideal outcome,
and that's that's awesome that you're putting out like the
epics and the work culture is not grimy. I guess
that makes sense now before we go around the break
these numbers like the twenty and thirty five pet SIR
seven and thirty four adoptions, those are pretty lofty and
(09:03):
felt like what interventions had the biggest leverage in achieving
both kind of numbers.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Step one for us really was kind of shifting focus
for our animal control officers, getting them to adapt that
community mindset and getting their buy in really was just
step one, because we could give them all the resources
in the world, but I can't make them give out
vaccines or microchips or dog food if they're not willing
(09:31):
to have a conversation. So it was a lot of
retraining to begin with with animal control officers. So once
we got them retrained, we got their buy in, you know,
we got them giving out food. We started a pet
food pantry, We started giving out microchips and vaccines. Because
we started giving those out, we also stared more people
start to donate them, including local that partnerships and even
(09:53):
a couple of pharmaceutical companies started donating them to us,
so that helped. Then we equipped our officers with fence
fixing kicks and other supplies on their trucks like collars
and leashes and tethers and tie outs, just so they
could be helpful if it was needed. And then that
starts that other conversation of prioritizing what needs to come
(10:14):
into their shelter, because at the end of the day,
we have a certain amount of staff, a certain amount
of capacity and resources in space and it's not just
an unlimited supply. So when you have that that conversation
of you know, prioritizing what you're bringing in and a
managed intake, that's also a big change in mindset for
(10:35):
all the staff and even the community. Having just asking
someone who found a dog, you know, would you be
would you consider adapting this dog in the future, would
you consider fostering this dog through its strayhold? Yep, let's
bring it in today because you don't have the resources
to do that. Like, that's great, thank you for even
considering it. Those people are much more likely to come
back and work with you, you know, when they are
(10:57):
ready to adapt, they come back, and you have somebody
who says, hey, I'm moving and they contact you, you know,
a few months in advance or a few weeks in advance,
you can do so much more for that pat where
it might not even have to come into the shelter.
You can find an adopter. You can find you know,
a foster or a rescue that's home based to help
them so they don't have to come into our shelter,
(11:20):
which is really loud and noisy, and it's not like
a home environment. As much as we try, it's not
a home. So having all those conversations, it is keeping
the mindset of being very community focused, managing intake and
doing a lot of early intervention that really helps us
achieve those higher numbers.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, that's amazing. I hope you double that, Like in
no time, me too putting it out there, and you
did touch on this, but I'll ask it anyways, what
like the systems and supports that you put in place,
is there any other ones maybe that you can give
advice to other animal control organizations out there to address
(12:00):
that compassion for the fatigue and even trauma for staff
and volunteers. I know that that can weigh heavily on
on them.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Unfortunately, compassion with tig is so hard, so hard when
you work in animal welfare. It just comes with the territory,
and it is so heavy in our field. And I
love that in our field we are so transparent about it,
and we're transparent about mental health and we can talk
about it.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
We're open.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
So I think with my staff, my volunteers, it's again
it's being open and honest, being really transparent and saying,
you know, I recognize your burnout. Why don't you take it?
Why don't you take a day off, Why don't you
go do something for you? Right, trying to really get
them to set healthy work life boundaries. When you're someone
(12:47):
who is constantly serving others and feeling like if you're
not there then animals are suffering, it can be really
hard to step away and take a break or do
something for yourself, which ultimately, you know, it just leads
to more burnout. So having those conversations and recognizing in
each other, like I can recognize you're starting to get
up a little bit burnout. Why don't you go do
something for yourself. What are you doing that's filling your
(13:08):
cop because I think your club is really empty right now.
So we really encourage that in our staff, and then
we do try to motivate them, so we do fun things,
you know, we just try to celebrate our small wins.
We celebrate every every adoption, every foster, everyone who does
a meet and greet. We have a group chat, and
we give a lot of kudos to each other because
you get recognized for that and you are deserving of that.
(13:31):
We play games like Shelter Bingos. You can win prizes
for doing things that are within your normal job description
but that you're doing really well. So I don't know,
those are some of the things that we do. But
I think also just recognizing in each other and you know,
having kind of like regular conversation about it makes everyone
not so afraid to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yes, that's awesome that you did point that out because
a lot of people just hold it in. So yeah,
that's kodles to you for being the director and of
the organization and directing people's mental health, because that is
a really important piece. Taking a break from all of
that beking of taking a break. We're just going to
have a quick break and when we get back, we'll
continue our conversation with Rachel horton real people, real stories.
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Speaker 2 (15:33):
Welcome back to Saba Booch. We're talking with Rachel Horton
of the Saganaw County Animal Care and Control in Michigan.
Let's switch hears here and let's talk about poverty and
pet ownership. One of the most common economic barriers that
you see, how to community and access to care programs,
change outcomes.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
One of the biggest issues that we see is the
cost of vetinary care. And then also so you know,
changes in living situations. Unfortunately, you know, all those socio
economical issues that we suffer from trickle down right into
our pots and into our shelcers. So when people are
(16:15):
lacking food, they're lacking housing. It's really difficult to keep
that human animal bond. So we try to help them
in any way we can, and whether that's having a
conversation with the landlord and trying to you know, convince
them that this this person is a great pat owner
and this pat is really well behaved and they probably
(16:35):
should consider renting to them or whatever. We've done that
before for people. Also just trying to give them access
to veterinary care, you know, low cost vaccines and Spain
nototer as much as we can, trying to help them
because it's really expensive. And in Michigan we're really lucky
that we are resource rich. We have a lot of
(16:56):
veterinarians around us.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh wow, I'm awesome.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Yeah, those are areas of the country don't have that,
So even though we have it, it's still really expensive. Yeah,
but you know, trying to give everybody all their options,
trying to also assist in that, you know, help as
much as we can. That's a big part of it.
And I think if you if you can again try
to do as much as that intervention and try to
(17:20):
keep the human animal mind, that's really what's important. We've
had people and Saginaw that were homeless, and just because
they were homeless didn't mean they when you were a
bad pat owner. They were just bound on their luck, right,
And we've how you know, we've housed their animal and
they've gotten back on their feet and we've given their
animal back to them and they've been successful in maintaining
(17:41):
good standards of living for that pet. So we're glad
to assist in that facilitation. So again, I think it's
just just being compassionate, helping people when you can, trying
to give them a break, don't take them when they're.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Down, Amen to that. Like here in Toronto, there is
a lot about ols people with pets, and I often
wonder when I passed them, it's like, wow, like this
is a tricky situation because it's on one hand, you
know they're struggling, but on the other hand, they're also
trying to keep their pet survive. Right.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Yeah, it is a really unique situation. And the more
of those situations I've experienced, I realize that those people
will put that pet and their needs over their own
for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
If it's a choice of who's getting dinner that night, yeah,
I guarantee it's the dog. So you know, again going
back to that human animal bond, I don't want to
take an animal away from you when you're at maybe
one of the lowest points in your life and you're
regularly struggling because they give you companionship and love. I
want to be able to reunite them with you. I
(18:43):
want you to get healthy and back on your feet.
So we try to do all that we can do.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
That's great that you do that reconnection piece. That's awesome. Yeah,
and what misconceptions do you encounter about like live release rates?
Maybe you can even explain it a little bit, because
even I myself don't complain understand, So, yeah, what misconceptions
do you encounter about live release rates or no kill language?
How do you keep that conversation honest while still being
(19:10):
tried to improve it? Who no kill is such a
subject in all, So yeah, you.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Know, no kill was a movement that we did really progressively,
and we did an amazing job of coining that term
no kill. Whereas down there's kind of a misconception that
people think if you're no kill that means that you
don't ever euthanize, which isn't the.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Case right, not at all, But then they.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Also don't understand, Like, so my facility in particular, we're
Animal care and Control. We offer low cost use in
Asia services, and every single one of those owner requested
use in Asias that we perform actually counts against our
save rate. So even though we're being really compassionate and
we're trying to give an animal a humane youth in
(19:58):
Asia so they're not suffering, we don't want them to
suffer at home. We don't want them to go without
vet nearing care, we don't want them to pass away
in pain. We're actually kind of penalized for that because
it counts against our save rate, and I think that
that's something people don't quite understand. It's not truly fair.
(20:18):
But also people don't see the prevented surrenders and the
families that we've kept together. They don't see all the
animals that didn't even have to come into the shelter
to begin with, Like all that other work that's happening
behind the scenes, people don't see. They just see that
one little save rate and they think that that that
is really what you know, is stigmatizing your shelter, and
(20:42):
they don't see all the other work that's going on
behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh gosh, yeah, no, I can imagine. And even with
the no kill definition. I remember fostering a dog that
was a no kill quote organization, and yeah, it came
to the point where the dog olls fostering was not
being adopted and they had scheduled it to be euthanized.
They'll had to take it on my own, and I
was I was actually pretty peeved, and I'm like, wait
(21:06):
a minute. You guys said he you're no kill, but
here we are.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Yeah, it's it's a really specific language that's, you know,
unfortunately kind of up to interpretation of the person that's
asking if you're no kill. So if if somebody calls
our front desk and they ask, are you no pill,
we try to give them some feedback on that and
be like, you know, we don't euthanize for time or
space or lack of resources, but if an animal has
(21:30):
a significant behavior issue that would become a public safety concern,
we will euthanize, right, Or if they have an untreatable
medical condition, we will euthanize, right.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Okay, when you're up front.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
And honest about that, you don't get all the questions.
But then when people see your stats, you know, they think,
oh my gosh, you guys are killing every day, and
that's not true. We're not just killing for the for
the sake of killing, because I don't think anybody gets
into animal welfare wanting to euthanize. But you know you're
trying to be humane and pack it toward people and
animals and use an asia as part of that.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yes, yes, that it's that line that I don't ever
want to make decisions on. Rachel also hats off to you. Now,
could you share a success story? Let's bring it later,
he Can you share a success story that captures the
impact of your community care model on both the pet
and the family. Oh, there's probably lots there are.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Me recently, I had a person that was hospitalized and
their animals came to us because they were hospitalized, they
had no family, no one next to can, no one
to care for their animals. And I think when they
finally got out of the hospital and got home and
got healthy and we were able to give them their
pats back, just seeing the joy that we brought them,
that makes it all worth it for us. For me specifically,
(22:51):
like I love those happy endings. I have adapters that
I adapted out two years ago that I run into
in town at the girl store or whatever, and they
come and tell me about their dog, and that brings
me so much joy. Like I don't remember every single
dog or cat I adapted out, but a lot of
them I do remember, And just hearing that they're so
loved even years later, like that makes all the day
(23:13):
to day stress is really worth it for us.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine the dog's probably like a
completely different dog.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, but dog that I think I know in the shelter,
I never actually know, right, But when the ones they
get home, they're completely different. Everything I thought that I
was doing such a great meet and grateful probably got
thrown out the window. But they're happy and in a home,
and that just proves that behavior is fluid. So that's
fine too.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, exactly. Now, for listeners who want to help, what's
the best way to support your organization or their local shelter.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
You can always support your local shelters and ours, you know,
through monetary donations and physical donations. We always need cleaning supplies,
we always need pot supplies. We go through a ton
of it. One of the other ways that people don't
realize you can support is just publicly supporting, sharing our adaptions,
sharing our wins, celebrating with us, you know, given our
(24:10):
staff a kudos or pats on the back, recognizing our
public programs we have in place and that we are trying. Like,
just that public support really goes a long way. It
helps us get buy in from other community members and
build more partnerships. So if you can't help, you know,
with money or you know, fostering or donating or volunteering,
(24:31):
there's other ways that you can help. And it can
just be the simple share on social media. It could
be a quick message just shouting out celebrating good work. Like,
there's so many ways that you can do that, and
it doesn't have to cost.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
You a dime exactly. Yeah, share the Instagram, Facebook. Let's
see second out animal control for well Facebook and Instagram
and yes those two, give a share, Give a share. Now,
last question before we wrap up, if you had one
policy change or community partnership that would move the needle
(25:02):
in twenty twenty six, what would it be and why?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Date wide access to vetinary care.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I was just gonna say, like, it's gonna be the
vetinary it is in Michigan.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Trap neuter and release is not recognized as a sustainable effort.
We also don't get any kind of funding or support
for cats or for T and R. We don't We
have very few laws even in regards to cats in Michigan.
So you know, that's the way. Its a hiccup when
people have all these outside feral cats and they want
us to help, and they don't.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Understand that everybody.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Needs our help, and we aren't given any additional resources
to help. And then just you know, the access to
veterinary care. It's such a burdened shelters to be able
to get every animal healthy and spain neutered and medically
evaluated so that they are highly adaptable and sought after.
It's really really difficult, and it's off. Then it's on
(26:01):
those shelters to create partnerships and find veterinarians and find
people who can help with that. And then you know
you're not just cleaning kunnels and evaluating for behavior and
doing meat and greets and doing adaptions. You probably are
also fundraising on the side to be able to pay
for all of it. So it's it's so much work,
and if we could just have a little bit of
(26:21):
help in that area, it would go a long way.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, absolutely, I hope you find that ideal partnership. I
wonder if it's a thing for like veterinarians to donate,
like I know there's probably some that do, but donate
in a major way in terms of their services.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
We've had volunteers that have, you know, donated their time
with us and that's really wonderful, Like they'll come in
and help do exams or raby shots or just volunteer
to see animals for simple things and that really does
go a long way, you know. And it doesn't have
to be anything remarkable. It doesn't have to be every weekend.
It could be just a couple hours here and there.
(26:58):
But there's always some animal in the shop through that
can benefit from a veterinarian laying eyes on them.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Absolutely well, hopefully there's going to be in the future
some veterinary models that can incorporate shelters way more so.
I guess we'll see who we are out of time. Rachel,
thank you for the work you have done and are
doing in animal welfare and for reminding us that caring
for animals often begins with caring for people. And thanks
(27:24):
to our show producing more quinter for making the show possible.
You can learn more about Rachel Horton and the Second
Alt County and No Care Control on our show page.
We'll include the link there, and if you have any questions,
commentary ideas for a show, please email me at Beverly
at petlife radio dot com. Go until next time, spread
animal compassion.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Let's Talk pets every week on demand only on petlife
radio dot com
This is pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to say a boos on pate Life Radio. I
am Beverly Isla, your host. Thank you for listening in Today.
Our special guest is Rachel Orton, director of the Saginaw
County Animal Care and Control in Michigan. Now, Rachel is
redefining what modern animal welfare looks like, such as shifting
the focus from enforcement and numbers to prevention, education and compassion.
(00:31):
And just some stats here. Since January twenty twenty four,
the SCACC Tongue Twister has provided a safety net for
one thousand and thirty five lost and homeless pets. They
completed seven hundred and thirty four adoptions, two hundred and
six reunifications, and prevented five hundred and thirty seven potential
(00:53):
owner surrenders through early intervention. So helping families and pet
skate together and under Rachel's leadership, the live release rate
has risen to seventy six point seven percent, up from
fifty five and twenty twenty three. So when we get
back from these messages, we'll be joined by Rachel Horton.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
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(01:36):
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Speaker 1 (01:56):
Let's talk pets on petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Welcome back to save a Pooch. We are talking with
Rachel Horton, director of Saegonov County Animal Care and Control. Rachel,
thank you so much for being here today. Not to
set the stage, can you share a brief overview of
this sca CC mission and how your approach has evolved
since January twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Yeah, so, first, thank you so much for having me.
I'm honored to be here. Since becoming director in January
of twenty twenty four, I think that our our mission
really it didn't change, like the actual mission statement didn't
change but the way that we went about it did so. Ultimately,
(02:44):
our mission is to safeguard the well being of animals
and the community through care and adoption and proactive animal
control services, which means that we are providing services to
both people and pats. And I think ultimately that really
shifted for us because we went from a really heavily
law enforced based organization to a community proactive organization. Instead
(03:12):
of writing those citations and trying to gather as many
animals as we could on the street, we started changing
the way that we operated because writing citations wasn't doing
anything for us. We weren't getting any further ahead. So
we really had to change our approach and be more
community based and proactive in our approach because we were
(03:33):
increasing our numbers, but ultimately we weren't helping more people.
We were just writing more citations and still having the
same old problems.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, that's an undertaking for you to do. That's amazing.
And because of like animal care the way it's portrayed,
and like you know, most cartoon movies, I can imagine
like the ship that needs to happen in the perception.
Now you've been reframing animal control as animal care kodles
for that. Now, practically what changes when a shelter adopts
(04:01):
that mindset. There's so much behind it.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I could go into like so many little caveats of
what you just said, but there's so much behind it.
I think when you consider, you know, animal control and
going from that old school dogcatter mentality to I'm going
to be proactive and I want to provide care to
people and animals like I don't want to just go
out there and collect dogs off the street. I want
(04:28):
to have conversations. I want to serve my community. I
want to help them be better dog ammers, and that
that's where the shift is. All the shift goes into,
you know, more of community policing and giving services and
education and help instead of just punishing them for something
that they might not understand or just you know, they
(04:48):
want to do by right by their pet, but it's
a lack of resources. So it all really starts there
and having those conversations with your community and seeing how can.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You help them Exactly, yes, answers. My next question basically
is because your community investment in the animal where while
friend how that looks on a day to day When
you mentioned it, is all about communication, and I mean
as you go, I guess I don't want to say
collecting the dogs out the street. That sounds not so good.
But do you find when you're connecting with the owners
(05:19):
that they're they have like a hostile attitude I guess
towards animal control.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I think that it's not necessarily a hostile attitude all
the time. Sometimes I think they're just leiery of a
person in uniform door, yeah, because you know we are
coming to your door unannounced and you don't know why,
and then we just kind of start off really strong
with all these questions are coming off as kind of accusatory,
(05:46):
and that doesn't work for people, right. I think if
you approach and go, hey, I'm I'm here from animal
care and control and I want to learn more about
you and your pet because I want to help you,
you know, just start off that way and appearing friendly
and wanting to help you get so much further with them.
And the more you can keep people talking and having
(06:07):
a conversation, the better off you're going to be. And
that's in any kind of law enforcement field, right, because
they're giving more information. So when you start having conversations
with people and you start just giving them a moment
to be heard, you learn so much more about the
situation and how you can help.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And they find that they're more open to their perspectives.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yeah, but you know, I think that once you start
having that conversation of oh, you you know, you've had
a problem with your dog, or you can't contain your
dog because they keep escaping out of their leash or
their harness, or there's a hole in your fence or
you know, whatever the reason is. And then you start
offering some suggestions, or you have a tether in your
(06:48):
truck and you give it to them, or you have
a collar and you give it to them, and you
give them a warning, and you know, just say hey,
I'm just trying to help you that I don't want
to see your dog get hit by a car. I
don't want to see it picked up by animal control. Like,
it goes so much further. And then the next time,
if you do have you know, more contact with that person,
they remember those conversations, they remember how they were treated,
(07:11):
and they're much more likely to come to you for
help when they need it versus letting things get really bad.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Right right, Oh, that's amazing that you can leave based
off of that kind of compassion, which is a good
segue into how are you empowering volunteers and community members
to be part of the solution rather than just being spectators.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
I think that you have to invite everyone to have
some kind of partnership or relationship with you, and if
you put out what your goals are and what you need,
people and often can jump to help you in ways
that you never expected. But you have to be extremely
vulnerable and transparent and put out what you need. You
have to identify your goals and share those with people
(07:53):
because a lot of people want to help and they
don't know how to. So I think you really just
have to take advantage of people's strengths, you know, especially
and your volunteers and your staff. Play to their strengths.
What are they good at, what are they passionate about? Like,
let them do that work because they're passionate about it
and it doesn't feel like work. You know, people in
the community, your partnerships, when you put out really big,
lofty goals, they understand what you're trying to move toward
(08:16):
and they're more likely to help you versus internalizing those
So I think if you're open to just being really
vulnerable and transparent and sharing everything pretty much upfront and
on the table, you'll get so much further. But also
people kind of start gathering to you, and partnerships come
very naturally. At that point, it just becomes they're kind
of rolling in, sometimes faster than you can even handle,
(08:38):
because now you've put it out there and then the
community does want to help.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That is an ideal. That is an ideal, ideal outcome,
and that's that's awesome that you're putting out like the
epics and the work culture is not grimy. I guess
that makes sense now before we go around the break
these numbers like the twenty and thirty five pet SIR
seven and thirty four adoptions, those are pretty lofty and
(09:03):
felt like what interventions had the biggest leverage in achieving
both kind of numbers.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Step one for us really was kind of shifting focus
for our animal control officers, getting them to adapt that
community mindset and getting their buy in really was just
step one, because we could give them all the resources
in the world, but I can't make them give out
vaccines or microchips or dog food if they're not willing
(09:31):
to have a conversation. So it was a lot of
retraining to begin with with animal control officers. So once
we got them retrained, we got their buy in, you know,
we got them giving out food. We started a pet
food pantry, We started giving out microchips and vaccines. Because
we started giving those out, we also stared more people
start to donate them, including local that partnerships and even
(09:53):
a couple of pharmaceutical companies started donating them to us,
so that helped. Then we equipped our officers with fence
fixing kicks and other supplies on their trucks like collars
and leashes and tethers and tie outs, just so they
could be helpful if it was needed. And then that
starts that other conversation of prioritizing what needs to come
(10:14):
into their shelter, because at the end of the day,
we have a certain amount of staff, a certain amount
of capacity and resources in space and it's not just
an unlimited supply. So when you have that that conversation
of you know, prioritizing what you're bringing in and a
managed intake, that's also a big change in mindset for
(10:35):
all the staff and even the community. Having just asking
someone who found a dog, you know, would you be
would you consider adapting this dog in the future, would
you consider fostering this dog through its strayhold? Yep, let's
bring it in today because you don't have the resources
to do that. Like, that's great, thank you for even
considering it. Those people are much more likely to come
back and work with you, you know, when they are
(10:57):
ready to adapt, they come back, and you have somebody
who says, hey, I'm moving and they contact you, you know,
a few months in advance or a few weeks in advance,
you can do so much more for that pat where
it might not even have to come into the shelter.
You can find an adopter. You can find you know,
a foster or a rescue that's home based to help
them so they don't have to come into our shelter,
(11:20):
which is really loud and noisy, and it's not like
a home environment. As much as we try, it's not
a home. So having all those conversations, it is keeping
the mindset of being very community focused, managing intake and
doing a lot of early intervention that really helps us
achieve those higher numbers.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, that's amazing. I hope you double that, Like in
no time, me too putting it out there, and you
did touch on this, but I'll ask it anyways, what
like the systems and supports that you put in place,
is there any other ones maybe that you can give
advice to other animal control organizations out there to address
(12:00):
that compassion for the fatigue and even trauma for staff
and volunteers. I know that that can weigh heavily on
on them.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Unfortunately, compassion with tig is so hard, so hard when
you work in animal welfare. It just comes with the territory,
and it is so heavy in our field. And I
love that in our field we are so transparent about it,
and we're transparent about mental health and we can talk
about it.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
We're open.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
So I think with my staff, my volunteers, it's again
it's being open and honest, being really transparent and saying,
you know, I recognize your burnout. Why don't you take it?
Why don't you take a day off, Why don't you
go do something for you? Right, trying to really get
them to set healthy work life boundaries. When you're someone
(12:47):
who is constantly serving others and feeling like if you're
not there then animals are suffering, it can be really
hard to step away and take a break or do
something for yourself, which ultimately, you know, it just leads
to more burnout. So having those conversations and recognizing in
each other, like I can recognize you're starting to get
up a little bit burnout. Why don't you go do
something for yourself. What are you doing that's filling your
(13:08):
cop because I think your club is really empty right now.
So we really encourage that in our staff, and then
we do try to motivate them, so we do fun things,
you know, we just try to celebrate our small wins.
We celebrate every every adoption, every foster, everyone who does
a meet and greet. We have a group chat, and
we give a lot of kudos to each other because
you get recognized for that and you are deserving of that.
(13:31):
We play games like Shelter Bingos. You can win prizes
for doing things that are within your normal job description
but that you're doing really well. So I don't know,
those are some of the things that we do. But
I think also just recognizing in each other and you know,
having kind of like regular conversation about it makes everyone
not so afraid to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yes, that's awesome that you did point that out because
a lot of people just hold it in. So yeah,
that's kodles to you for being the director and of
the organization and directing people's mental health, because that is
a really important piece. Taking a break from all of
that beking of taking a break. We're just going to
have a quick break and when we get back, we'll
continue our conversation with Rachel horton real people, real stories.
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Speaker 2 (15:33):
Welcome back to Saba Booch. We're talking with Rachel Horton
of the Saganaw County Animal Care and Control in Michigan.
Let's switch hears here and let's talk about poverty and
pet ownership. One of the most common economic barriers that
you see, how to community and access to care programs,
change outcomes.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
One of the biggest issues that we see is the
cost of vetinary care. And then also so you know,
changes in living situations. Unfortunately, you know, all those socio
economical issues that we suffer from trickle down right into
our pots and into our shelcers. So when people are
(16:15):
lacking food, they're lacking housing. It's really difficult to keep
that human animal bond. So we try to help them
in any way we can, and whether that's having a
conversation with the landlord and trying to you know, convince
them that this this person is a great pat owner
and this pat is really well behaved and they probably
(16:35):
should consider renting to them or whatever. We've done that
before for people. Also just trying to give them access
to veterinary care, you know, low cost vaccines and Spain
nototer as much as we can, trying to help them
because it's really expensive. And in Michigan we're really lucky
that we are resource rich. We have a lot of
(16:56):
veterinarians around us.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Oh wow, I'm awesome.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Yeah, those are areas of the country don't have that,
So even though we have it, it's still really expensive. Yeah,
but you know, trying to give everybody all their options,
trying to also assist in that, you know, help as
much as we can. That's a big part of it.
And I think if you if you can again try
to do as much as that intervention and try to
(17:20):
keep the human animal mind, that's really what's important. We've
had people and Saginaw that were homeless, and just because
they were homeless didn't mean they when you were a
bad pat owner. They were just bound on their luck, right,
And we've how you know, we've housed their animal and
they've gotten back on their feet and we've given their
animal back to them and they've been successful in maintaining
(17:41):
good standards of living for that pet. So we're glad
to assist in that facilitation. So again, I think it's
just just being compassionate, helping people when you can, trying
to give them a break, don't take them when they're.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Down, Amen to that. Like here in Toronto, there is
a lot about ols people with pets, and I often
wonder when I passed them, it's like, wow, like this
is a tricky situation because it's on one hand, you
know they're struggling, but on the other hand, they're also
trying to keep their pet survive. Right.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Yeah, it is a really unique situation. And the more
of those situations I've experienced, I realize that those people
will put that pet and their needs over their own
for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
If it's a choice of who's getting dinner that night, yeah,
I guarantee it's the dog. So you know, again going
back to that human animal bond, I don't want to
take an animal away from you when you're at maybe
one of the lowest points in your life and you're
regularly struggling because they give you companionship and love. I
want to be able to reunite them with you. I
(18:43):
want you to get healthy and back on your feet.
So we try to do all that we can do.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
That's great that you do that reconnection piece. That's awesome. Yeah,
and what misconceptions do you encounter about like live release rates?
Maybe you can even explain it a little bit, because
even I myself don't complain understand, So, yeah, what misconceptions
do you encounter about live release rates or no kill language?
How do you keep that conversation honest while still being
(19:10):
tried to improve it? Who no kill is such a
subject in all, So yeah, you.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Know, no kill was a movement that we did really progressively,
and we did an amazing job of coining that term
no kill. Whereas down there's kind of a misconception that
people think if you're no kill that means that you
don't ever euthanize, which isn't the.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Case right, not at all, But then they.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Also don't understand, Like, so my facility in particular, we're
Animal care and Control. We offer low cost use in
Asia services, and every single one of those owner requested
use in Asias that we perform actually counts against our
save rate. So even though we're being really compassionate and
we're trying to give an animal a humane youth in
(19:58):
Asia so they're not suffering, we don't want them to
suffer at home. We don't want them to go without
vet nearing care, we don't want them to pass away
in pain. We're actually kind of penalized for that because
it counts against our save rate, and I think that
that's something people don't quite understand. It's not truly fair.
(20:18):
But also people don't see the prevented surrenders and the
families that we've kept together. They don't see all the
animals that didn't even have to come into the shelter
to begin with, Like all that other work that's happening
behind the scenes, people don't see. They just see that
one little save rate and they think that that that
is really what you know, is stigmatizing your shelter, and
(20:42):
they don't see all the other work that's going on
behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh gosh, yeah, no, I can imagine. And even with
the no kill definition. I remember fostering a dog that
was a no kill quote organization, and yeah, it came
to the point where the dog olls fostering was not
being adopted and they had scheduled it to be euthanized.
They'll had to take it on my own, and I
was I was actually pretty peeved, and I'm like, wait
(21:06):
a minute. You guys said he you're no kill, but
here we are.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Yeah, it's it's a really specific language that's, you know,
unfortunately kind of up to interpretation of the person that's
asking if you're no kill. So if if somebody calls
our front desk and they ask, are you no pill,
we try to give them some feedback on that and
be like, you know, we don't euthanize for time or
space or lack of resources, but if an animal has
(21:30):
a significant behavior issue that would become a public safety concern,
we will euthanize, right, Or if they have an untreatable
medical condition, we will euthanize, right.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Okay, when you're up front.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
And honest about that, you don't get all the questions.
But then when people see your stats, you know, they think,
oh my gosh, you guys are killing every day, and
that's not true. We're not just killing for the for
the sake of killing, because I don't think anybody gets
into animal welfare wanting to euthanize. But you know you're
trying to be humane and pack it toward people and
animals and use an asia as part of that.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yes, yes, that it's that line that I don't ever
want to make decisions on. Rachel also hats off to you. Now,
could you share a success story? Let's bring it later,
he Can you share a success story that captures the
impact of your community care model on both the pet
and the family. Oh, there's probably lots there are.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Me recently, I had a person that was hospitalized and
their animals came to us because they were hospitalized, they
had no family, no one next to can, no one
to care for their animals. And I think when they
finally got out of the hospital and got home and
got healthy and we were able to give them their
pats back, just seeing the joy that we brought them,
that makes it all worth it for us. For me specifically,
(22:51):
like I love those happy endings. I have adapters that
I adapted out two years ago that I run into
in town at the girl store or whatever, and they
come and tell me about their dog, and that brings
me so much joy. Like I don't remember every single
dog or cat I adapted out, but a lot of
them I do remember, And just hearing that they're so
loved even years later, like that makes all the day
(23:13):
to day stress is really worth it for us.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine the dog's probably like a
completely different dog.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, but dog that I think I know in the shelter,
I never actually know, right, But when the ones they
get home, they're completely different. Everything I thought that I
was doing such a great meet and grateful probably got
thrown out the window. But they're happy and in a home,
and that just proves that behavior is fluid. So that's
fine too.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, exactly. Now, for listeners who want to help, what's
the best way to support your organization or their local shelter.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
You can always support your local shelters and ours, you know,
through monetary donations and physical donations. We always need cleaning supplies,
we always need pot supplies. We go through a ton
of it. One of the other ways that people don't
realize you can support is just publicly supporting, sharing our adaptions,
sharing our wins, celebrating with us, you know, given our
(24:10):
staff a kudos or pats on the back, recognizing our
public programs we have in place and that we are trying. Like,
just that public support really goes a long way. It
helps us get buy in from other community members and
build more partnerships. So if you can't help, you know,
with money or you know, fostering or donating or volunteering,
(24:31):
there's other ways that you can help. And it can
just be the simple share on social media. It could
be a quick message just shouting out celebrating good work. Like,
there's so many ways that you can do that, and
it doesn't have to cost.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
You a dime exactly. Yeah, share the Instagram, Facebook. Let's
see second out animal control for well Facebook and Instagram
and yes those two, give a share, Give a share. Now,
last question before we wrap up, if you had one
policy change or community partnership that would move the needle
(25:02):
in twenty twenty six, what would it be and why?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Date wide access to vetinary care.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I was just gonna say, like, it's gonna be the
vetinary it is in Michigan.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Trap neuter and release is not recognized as a sustainable effort.
We also don't get any kind of funding or support
for cats or for T and R. We don't We
have very few laws even in regards to cats in Michigan.
So you know, that's the way. Its a hiccup when
people have all these outside feral cats and they want
us to help, and they don't.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Understand that everybody.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Needs our help, and we aren't given any additional resources
to help. And then just you know, the access to
veterinary care. It's such a burdened shelters to be able
to get every animal healthy and spain neutered and medically
evaluated so that they are highly adaptable and sought after.
It's really really difficult, and it's off. Then it's on
(26:01):
those shelters to create partnerships and find veterinarians and find
people who can help with that. And then you know
you're not just cleaning kunnels and evaluating for behavior and
doing meat and greets and doing adaptions. You probably are
also fundraising on the side to be able to pay
for all of it. So it's it's so much work,
and if we could just have a little bit of
(26:21):
help in that area, it would go a long way.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, absolutely, I hope you find that ideal partnership. I
wonder if it's a thing for like veterinarians to donate,
like I know there's probably some that do, but donate
in a major way in terms of their services.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
We've had volunteers that have, you know, donated their time
with us and that's really wonderful, Like they'll come in
and help do exams or raby shots or just volunteer
to see animals for simple things and that really does
go a long way, you know. And it doesn't have
to be anything remarkable. It doesn't have to be every weekend.
It could be just a couple hours here and there.
(26:58):
But there's always some animal in the shop through that
can benefit from a veterinarian laying eyes on them.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Absolutely well, hopefully there's going to be in the future
some veterinary models that can incorporate shelters way more so.
I guess we'll see who we are out of time. Rachel,
thank you for the work you have done and are
doing in animal welfare and for reminding us that caring
for animals often begins with caring for people. And thanks
(27:24):
to our show producing more quinter for making the show possible.
You can learn more about Rachel Horton and the Second
Alt County and No Care Control on our show page.
We'll include the link there, and if you have any questions,
commentary ideas for a show, please email me at Beverly
at petlife radio dot com. Go until next time, spread
animal compassion.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Let's Talk pets every week on demand only on petlife
radio dot com
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