November 8, 2022 • 22 mins
Stan talks about the Steelers recent issues and struggles that they have had and offers some perspective. Then, Stan is joined by author Jim Wexell to discuss his latest book "On the Clock: Pittsburgh Steelers: Behind the Scenes with the Pittsburgh Steelers at the NFL Draft" and how the Steelers might need to look for someone special in the upcoming draft.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
So I think this is the chance to storytell, and
that's what I did with all these Hall of Famers.
This is Saverein on Steelers. Hello to everyone out there
in Steelers Nation, and welcome to Savereign on Steelers podcast.
I am said person stand Savereign, bring you weekly Steelers
content twice weekly. Actually hope you enjoy the podcast. If
(00:24):
you do, please let your friends, neighbors, and relatives know
that we have the podcast up and running. We do
two new ones per week. You can get us at
Steelers dot com. If you haven't found us already, glad
you did, and please continue to listen. Try to prevent
present Steelers content to you. Um each time we're up
end podcasting watching this New York Jets. Steelers, of course
(00:49):
had a bye week last week watching this Bills and
Jets game, which we saw here in Pittsburgh. I don't
know if you were able to see that game. It
was eerily similar to what the Jets did to the Steelers.
What they did Sunday against the Buffalo Bills. That is,
play it tight, play it close, and then when they
have opportunity to grind out a victory, they did exactly that.
(01:13):
Now there was one difference in all this, and that
was that in the Steelers Jets game, the Steelers ground
out the clock to protect the lead. In this particular
game against Buffalo, again against a very good Buffalo defense
ranked number one in many categories going into that game.
They were in a Thai football game, but they were
(01:35):
able to possess the football largely on the ground, get
in position to a kick a game winning field goal,
but be exhaust the bills of all their time outs,
so that Josh Ellen, who did not have a good
game UM, had very little wherewithal to come back and
tire or win the game themselves. Uh. And I was
(01:55):
thinking back to that after the Steelers lost to the
Jets in that fact, and where they allowed the Jets
to continue um and control the ball for six thirty
three and when the Steelers did get the ball back,
Kenny pick it through an ill advised interception. I began
to think a lot of people after that game said, Hey,
don't sell the Jet short. They're building something there. They've
(02:18):
invested high draft choices, primarily on the offensive defensive line. Yes,
they used the number one draft picket quarterback in Zach Wilson,
but they began their restructure along the lines, which is
really where it should be. And I began to think
after many people mentioned that after the game, well, maybe
the Steelers lost to the Jet wasn't all that terrible.
(02:41):
Maybe the Jets are slightly better. I don't think it
excuse what happened to the Steelers, whether the Jets are
improving or not. The Steelers said they thought they'd have
a great defense, Well they got shoved around for those
last six minutes and thirty three seconds and it cost
him the game and put them in a position where
they had very little opportunity to come back and win.
(03:02):
So I don't know if I'm buying that, but I
do buy anything. The Jets are sitting there at six
and three. There must be something to what they're doing it,
and by the way, they're doing it in arguably the
best division in football. The Dolphins the Bills, I still believe,
are among the top two teams in the a f C.
The Patriots are over five, and certainly the Jets now are.
(03:25):
So maybe there is something to the fact that the
Jets are better than we initially gave them credit for.
I think that's a fair assessment. But I also think
that it underscores the Steelers weaknesses. How will that manifest
itself in the last nine games of the year. They're
sitting at two and six. You, as a Steeler fan,
(03:49):
I would imagine, I'm guessing now you're telling me otherwise,
But I would imagine that there are mixed feelings. A
fan who is dedicated to his team is never gonna
be happy when they lose. That's just the way it is.
That's just the way it works. But maybe as a
(04:12):
consolation prize, if the Steelers lose a game, it helps
their draft status, and I don't know, maybe you still
have hope for salvaging something out of this particular season.
But being honest, in order to make the playoffs, they'd
have to when at least seven of the remaining nine games. Now, granted,
(04:37):
the schedule is not nearly as tough based on opponent's
records only, the Steelers played the toughest schedule of any
NFL team in the first half of the season. That's
a fact. Now, maybe some of those teams that were
five hundred are gonna fall under. Of course, the reverse
(04:58):
can be true as well. All but there's no doubt
that they played a very demanding schedule the second half
of the schedule, if you will, the last nine games,
only two teams currently are above five seven of the nine.
Presently that can change or not, but just looking at
(05:21):
the quality of opponents, it should be quote easier, nothing's
easy in the NFL. It should be easier. But what
do they actually gain by winning, let's say six of
the nine games and finishing eight and nine? You've really
(05:42):
modified your draft position, and that that I would ever
advocate for a team to lose on that basis, because look,
the players are currently on the team. They're not worried
about next year's draft picks. They're worried about their own
fates and fortune. And if they don't play well, the
(06:05):
Steelers aren't gonna want them around, and neither other teams
will be less valuable on the trade market, and certainly
if they're eligible for free agency, if they play poorly individually,
teams don't value them on reputation. They look at the
tape and say, what did you what did you do?
What have you done? And yet it's hard not to
(06:27):
keep at least part of your vision and focus. I'm
positioning in the draft right now their top five or six,
eight and nine would ruin that four and thirteen or
something like that would enhance that. We're already experiencing that
to a degree viewing the games on Sunday, and it
(06:52):
totally escaped me when the score for the Miami Dolphins
Chicago Bears game came up that I ought to be
rooting for Miami. Why well, not because I'm worried about
the Dolphins, don't care one way or another about them
in their playoff fortunes, but because by beating the Bears
it gives the Steelers a better pick in the second
(07:13):
round for that Chase Claypool trade. Now, it's also too
that by rooting for the Bears to win, it might
hurt the Steelers chances in the number first round of
the draft, because the Bears are in contention. They're three
and six, the Steelers are two and six. But right now,
(07:34):
the focus is on that second round pick that they
got for Chase Claypool, which I believe was an excellent trade.
You give up a third round the second round, guy,
you're gonna get more in return in terms of where
you drafted Claypool as for what your return is going
to be. So it's a mixed kind of message. Yes,
(07:57):
nine games to go, a lot can happen, but yeah,
deep down inside, if the Steelers lose, it enhances their
draft position and that's no way to look at an
entire season, but in all honesty, that's where we're at.
The Steelers have always prided themselves on building through the draft.
(08:18):
In fact, in nineteen nine, after their four Super Bowl win,
there was a lot of conversation about every player who
want to ring that year was homegrown, drafted, or signs
the free agent by the Steelers, and that was true
for much of the decade. They would like to replicate
that if at all possible. The draft has an amazing
(08:44):
legacy with the Steelers. And we're joined out by Jim
Wexel cover the Steelers for a very long time steel
City insider. He's written a number of books. The last
one was about Troy Paula Mallo. But there's a brand
new one out. It's entitered on the clock behind the
(09:08):
scenes with the Pittsburgh Steelers at the NFL Draft, and
Jim joined us. Now, Jim, I just wanted to mention
it's a it's a great book at terrific reed. I
think any Steeler fan would just love this book to death.
Well I thought going into this season that I could
begin the marketing earlier than next March, right, right, yeah,
(09:28):
I mean we are talking about the draft right now.
They they traded Claypool for a high draft pick. We're
all we're all watching how the Bears are doing. Now,
what's that ticket went from forty three to what? So
that that's just a little kind of comic relief there.
But you know how much I've loved the draft over
the years, and this I think this is a chance
(09:49):
to storytell. And that's what I did with all these
Hall of famers. You know, uh, even you know Joe
Green's high school. There's stories about him scaring a the
team off the bus, um Terry Bradshaw's javelin throwing. I
love all that And when you can, you know, put
it together in story form instead of encyclopedic form. And
(10:11):
then and thereby all these pieces built super Bowl teams
or just Hall of famers, or as Greg Lloyd said
about the nineties, we rekindled the spirit and set it
up for the two thousands. Uh So that's the the history.
The draft tells the history of the Steelers, and I
felt putting it in a story form, makes it makes
(10:33):
it a history book, an interesting, fun history book for
not just young young guys, you know, young people. It
should be in every young person's library. With the Polar
Mallo book, I definitely feel that way. Uh So, but
our generation stand we can appreciate, uh the stories about
Bill Dudley, you know, they remind us of our our time.
(10:55):
You know. Well, um, it's an interesting because I've got
the book in front of me and I've read almost
all of it. But for those who are just being
initiated to the book, is it a story about individual players?
Is it about the Steelers philosophy? Behind the draft? Is about,
for example, a look behind in the war room, what
goes on on draft day. Well, um, there's a little
(11:19):
bit of all of that. Um, you know. Uh, it
tells the history and there's not of how they do
it because that's evolved. You know. As I pointed out,
Grantland Rice may have been their first scout. Uh he
wrote up Wizard White and uh Bill Dudley really big
(11:41):
late in their careers, and the Steelers were reading out
a draft magazines at that time. Um. And then Bill Livingston,
future Pittsburgh Press sports editor, he he got into he
was one of them. He was the first paid scout.
There's a newspaper guy we all know, the great newspaper guy,
Bill nun So. There's a lot of newspaper guys involved.
(12:03):
But I take you through the evolution of uh. You
know uh Urt. When Art Art Junior took over in
sixty five, I believe he took over it was a
bit of a joke by his dad. He went home
and told mom, I want to work for the team.
And mom said to Dad, you gotta find a place
for already. And Dad said, well, Betty Parker traded away
(12:24):
all the draft picks, so that's a safe place to put.
Art had a personnel. But five years later the chief
said it was the smartest move I ever made. Uh.
I'm wondering about the dedications of the draft. I mean,
most teams should do that, they have to do that.
But I'm wondering when when Dan came in uh and
(12:45):
took over for the chief the day to day operations,
is that where we're building through the draft? Is that
really where it started? Yeah? And and you know it's funny.
The newspaper men of the day complained about the higher
of Buddy Parker saying that they needed a GM and
this guy, this guy has no regard for drafting, and
(13:07):
they felt drafting was the wave of the future. And
this is in the fifties, so even some of the
newsmen were pretty astute at the time. And then you know,
by the time Dan had the power to say no
to Buddy Parker, all the you know, the rest of
the sixties were just obliterated by trading of draft picks. So, yeah,
when Dan came in, UH, and then you know, Dan
(13:28):
opened up his Pittsburgh Courier one one fine day, didn't
recognize any of the names. And Bill Nunn's respected UH
Black College All America team in sixty seven, and he
knew this paper came out of Pittsburgh, and he ran
the banquet for Bill Nunn every year at the Hilton.
And he said, why don't I know any of these guys?
(13:49):
What are my scouts? How come Bill Nun doesn't cover
this team. He went down to the lobby of the
Roosevelt Hotel, UH said to the guy who was there
from the Courier, where's Bill Nun? Why doesn't he come here?
And and Dan running was told he he thinks you
guys run a clown show, and so he said, Dan
set up a meeting. I want to talk to Bill
nine about his opinions on this. Bill Nunn was a
(14:09):
Cleveland Browns fan. He would drive from the Hill District
with his buddies to go see the Browns and uh
Dan asked Bill, why why don't you cover this team?
And Bill told him, you know you, you guys are
a joke and I think you're racist. I don't know
about you, but I know Buddy Parker was. I have
a good idea Bill Austin is and uh I just
(14:29):
think it's a complete, uh you know, clown show, and
uh Dan hired him. Let's uh you know. Bill was
allowed to keep his Courier job, and there's some funny
incidents where holding both jobs as a part time scout
and the talent evaluator for the Black College All America
team for the Courier, he would hold guys off. He
held Elsie Greenwood off the Courier All Star team and
(14:52):
the hope that the Stewers would get a late round
sleeper and they did so. He played some of those
games and I had fun writing about that. Oh boy,
Bill none with what a great gentleman, how long did it?
It's a chickender the egg thing, Jim. How long did
it take Bill Nonne to gain the confidence of our
Rooney Jr. Um and the other members of the Scouts
(15:14):
and Dan Rooney? Um? I mean did it? Did it
take the signing of some of these L. C. Greenwood
and and you know Joe green and Dwight White? Is
that what he had to do to prove himself? Well,
Bill hasn't you know, Bill has passed and he hasn't said.
I found no record of his opinion other than he
really wanted Chuck Nolan, He and aartie you know already
(15:36):
said that he came around quickly. But what what is
anyone gonna say? Bill None? Then oh yeah, I agreed
with him right away, So I can't be positive. But
already said he came around right away. And uh then
you know when when Chuck no was being hired, when
he was being interviewed, already barged into the interview room
(15:57):
and wanted to know if Chuck, if Chuck was if
he was going to draft athletes, if he was going
to draft black athletes, and uh, you know, Chuck said
something like, I'm only prejudiced against slow people and stupid
people and things like that. You just find me athletes,
and and Art and Bill Nunne were just overjoyed to
hear the rhetoric that came from Chuck Noll. And sure enough,
(16:20):
first day Chuck was hired, he was, okay, now let's
go to the draft board. We I think the draft
was within a week. I forget exactly, but that first
draft was right away, and Chuck wanted to check the
draft board and he was relieved that they had the
same respect for Joe Green because he had been hearing
about Terry Hanraty as was the word around town with
(16:40):
the fourth pick. And but Chuck really wanted Joe Green,
and uh Areaty says that he did too, and they
had no problem with all of that. Was would have
been very close because you know, Chuck um had been
with Baltimore and they were defeated by the Jets in
the big upset, and then he became available. So yeah,
the high ring, uh couldn't have come, you know, much
(17:01):
before that. And back in those days, the draft was held.
I think it was on the last Tuesday in January.
Um in general, I don't want to give away all
the great stuff in the book, But um saw the
story about Joe Green scaring people. Uh tell us that story, Jim,
and I won't ask you to reveal anything more about
the about the stories in the book. He was a
(17:23):
frustrated young man. He felt he lived in a racist
town in Texas and uh the uh the black high
schools never got covered coverage from the local media and
they had to bust around to get on the right field.
And um, he he ran with the wrong crowd too,
and he was a junior in high school and he
lost to a team believer from Waco. I forget the
(17:48):
name of the town that Joe was in, but it
was a home game. Joe walked in to get his
usual post game ice cream or whatever he eat after
the game at the ice cream place, and the opposing
quarterback was eating an ice cream cone. Joe took it
out of his hand and shoved it in his face,
and one of the quarterbacks teammates threw a bottle at Joe,
and once Joe recovered HEAs the place empty, they ran
(18:11):
onto the bus. Joe chased him. The bus driver pulled
the door shut, and Joe just ripped open the door
slowly but surely and got them open, and by then
the team had poured out the back of the bus
and runaway. He was only a junior in high school.
Yeah the means Joe Green, Yeah, it rhymes and all that.
But he came here with a demeanor. There there no
(18:34):
question about that. And then hey, um, the guard's name
is I remember from Denver was Paul Howard. And he
punched him in the stomach. I'm surprised as fitted his
fish didn't come out the back of his spine. Uh.
And remember the incident with with Bob McKay, the Browns
offensive lineman. So he is his reputation uh preceded him, Jim.
(18:55):
When you look back, what did you learn about the
Steelers approach to the draft in doing your research and
writing the book? Well, you know, Dan Rooney was I
think it's more about the people. You know. Dan Rooney
made it a priority and went and got Bill None.
And Bill None teaming with Chuck Noll was devastating for
(19:18):
for the rest of the NFL. And I don't know
that a philosophy was there other than Chuck wanted athletes
and build None opened the keys to the kingdom. Uh.
And and and just the study of Bill None and
the people he knew and the information he was able
to glean over his scouting contemporaries. You know, those guys
(19:41):
went to the black colleges too after a while. And uh,
I made a line in the book that, uh when
Bill Nunn was seen spotting, was was spotted scouting a
particular player, It was like the chief being spotted in
in line at a racing track, and who is he
gonna bet? Who was build on looking at the same thing.
(20:01):
It diminished the value of the player right away. So
they had to guard against what Bill Nunn was actually doing,
or it became a thing to look and see who
Bill Nunn was leaving off the College America All America team,
because that would be a tip as to who the
Steelers thought they could get as a sleeper. But you know,
and and it developed off of that, And I don't
(20:22):
mean to leave out the nineties and the yachts and
that all developed as well. You know, Tom Donahoe. Uh
I'll tell you one philosophy is that it's still up
to the coach. It's the head coach. He's got a
he leans on his personnel, director and general manager. But
it's the head coach, you know when Chuck, when Chuck
(20:43):
was arguing with Art Rooney Jr. About Franco, and Dan
Radakovich from Penn State, who was with the Steelers, finally
talked Chuck into drafting Franco. Radi coach looked at the
Chuck and said take him. And Chuck said, all right,
let's take the Penn State. Or he turned around and
looked at his personnel director already Jr. And said, you
(21:03):
better be right. Robert Newhouse. Robert new House the guy
that Chuck wanted. And there's a whole chapter called the
Penn State. Or Joe Green has said everything changed once
Franco came aboard. Jim as always. Uh. People know where
they can buy the book, Well, to the Amazon and uh,
(21:24):
I will be at my website very soon if you
want autograph copies, and I'm gonna have signings all over
Pittsburgh area, but right now to the Amazon, but it
won't be autographed our deep thanks to Jim Wuxell. Really
it's a terrific book you'll enjoy to make a great
Christmas gift for anybody, but get a copy for yourself.
It's available on Amazon, um and This is for uh,
(21:47):
you know, many of our out of town Steelers UH
folks who are looking for Steelers content. This will be
a great book to have and you made been't aware
of it otherwise. We're glad to pass that along to
you again. Jim Wexel. He's the author, um respected journalist
and it's available at Amazon dot com. Reminder that our
(22:07):
Steelers on Savann on Steelers podcast is available. Do editions
up twice weekly. We're glad that you were able to
find us. Hope you enjoyed the program. A reminder that
I am on every day on ESPN Pittsburgh nine seventy
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in the world for that matter, on the I Heart
(22:28):
Media app. Just download the app. It is free. It
is free for you to listen to the show every day.
And a reminder that I'll be along with Charlie Batts
after the postgame show or during the postgame show after
the Saints game on Sunday. We get on the air
about twenty minutes after the game is over. That's it
for this edition of Savann on Steelers. I thank you
(22:48):
for listening so long. Everybody
So I think this is the chance to storytell, and
that's what I did with all these Hall of Famers.
This is Saverein on Steelers. Hello to everyone out there
in Steelers Nation, and welcome to Savereign on Steelers podcast.
I am said person stand Savereign, bring you weekly Steelers
content twice weekly. Actually hope you enjoy the podcast. If
(00:24):
you do, please let your friends, neighbors, and relatives know
that we have the podcast up and running. We do
two new ones per week. You can get us at
Steelers dot com. If you haven't found us already, glad
you did, and please continue to listen. Try to prevent
present Steelers content to you. Um each time we're up
end podcasting watching this New York Jets. Steelers, of course
(00:49):
had a bye week last week watching this Bills and
Jets game, which we saw here in Pittsburgh. I don't
know if you were able to see that game. It
was eerily similar to what the Jets did to the Steelers.
What they did Sunday against the Buffalo Bills. That is,
play it tight, play it close, and then when they
have opportunity to grind out a victory, they did exactly that.
(01:13):
Now there was one difference in all this, and that
was that in the Steelers Jets game, the Steelers ground
out the clock to protect the lead. In this particular
game against Buffalo, again against a very good Buffalo defense
ranked number one in many categories going into that game.
They were in a Thai football game, but they were
(01:35):
able to possess the football largely on the ground, get
in position to a kick a game winning field goal,
but be exhaust the bills of all their time outs,
so that Josh Ellen, who did not have a good
game UM, had very little wherewithal to come back and
tire or win the game themselves. Uh. And I was
(01:55):
thinking back to that after the Steelers lost to the
Jets in that fact, and where they allowed the Jets
to continue um and control the ball for six thirty
three and when the Steelers did get the ball back,
Kenny pick it through an ill advised interception. I began
to think a lot of people after that game said, Hey,
don't sell the Jet short. They're building something there. They've
(02:18):
invested high draft choices, primarily on the offensive defensive line. Yes,
they used the number one draft picket quarterback in Zach Wilson,
but they began their restructure along the lines, which is
really where it should be. And I began to think
after many people mentioned that after the game, well, maybe
the Steelers lost to the Jet wasn't all that terrible.
(02:41):
Maybe the Jets are slightly better. I don't think it
excuse what happened to the Steelers, whether the Jets are
improving or not. The Steelers said they thought they'd have
a great defense, Well they got shoved around for those
last six minutes and thirty three seconds and it cost
him the game and put them in a position where
they had very little opportunity to come back and win.
(03:02):
So I don't know if I'm buying that, but I
do buy anything. The Jets are sitting there at six
and three. There must be something to what they're doing it,
and by the way, they're doing it in arguably the
best division in football. The Dolphins the Bills, I still believe,
are among the top two teams in the a f C.
The Patriots are over five, and certainly the Jets now are.
(03:25):
So maybe there is something to the fact that the
Jets are better than we initially gave them credit for.
I think that's a fair assessment. But I also think
that it underscores the Steelers weaknesses. How will that manifest
itself in the last nine games of the year. They're
sitting at two and six. You, as a Steeler fan,
(03:49):
I would imagine, I'm guessing now you're telling me otherwise,
But I would imagine that there are mixed feelings. A
fan who is dedicated to his team is never gonna
be happy when they lose. That's just the way it is.
That's just the way it works. But maybe as a
(04:12):
consolation prize, if the Steelers lose a game, it helps
their draft status, and I don't know, maybe you still
have hope for salvaging something out of this particular season.
But being honest, in order to make the playoffs, they'd
have to when at least seven of the remaining nine games. Now, granted,
(04:37):
the schedule is not nearly as tough based on opponent's
records only, the Steelers played the toughest schedule of any
NFL team in the first half of the season. That's
a fact. Now, maybe some of those teams that were
five hundred are gonna fall under. Of course, the reverse
(04:58):
can be true as well. All but there's no doubt
that they played a very demanding schedule the second half
of the schedule, if you will, the last nine games,
only two teams currently are above five seven of the nine.
Presently that can change or not, but just looking at
(05:21):
the quality of opponents, it should be quote easier, nothing's
easy in the NFL. It should be easier. But what
do they actually gain by winning, let's say six of
the nine games and finishing eight and nine? You've really
(05:42):
modified your draft position, and that that I would ever
advocate for a team to lose on that basis, because look,
the players are currently on the team. They're not worried
about next year's draft picks. They're worried about their own
fates and fortune. And if they don't play well, the
(06:05):
Steelers aren't gonna want them around, and neither other teams
will be less valuable on the trade market, and certainly
if they're eligible for free agency, if they play poorly individually,
teams don't value them on reputation. They look at the
tape and say, what did you what did you do?
What have you done? And yet it's hard not to
(06:27):
keep at least part of your vision and focus. I'm
positioning in the draft right now their top five or six,
eight and nine would ruin that four and thirteen or
something like that would enhance that. We're already experiencing that
to a degree viewing the games on Sunday, and it
(06:52):
totally escaped me when the score for the Miami Dolphins
Chicago Bears game came up that I ought to be
rooting for Miami. Why well, not because I'm worried about
the Dolphins, don't care one way or another about them
in their playoff fortunes, but because by beating the Bears
it gives the Steelers a better pick in the second
(07:13):
round for that Chase Claypool trade. Now, it's also too
that by rooting for the Bears to win, it might
hurt the Steelers chances in the number first round of
the draft, because the Bears are in contention. They're three
and six, the Steelers are two and six. But right now,
(07:34):
the focus is on that second round pick that they
got for Chase Claypool, which I believe was an excellent trade.
You give up a third round the second round, guy,
you're gonna get more in return in terms of where
you drafted Claypool as for what your return is going
to be. So it's a mixed kind of message. Yes,
(07:57):
nine games to go, a lot can happen, but yeah,
deep down inside, if the Steelers lose, it enhances their
draft position and that's no way to look at an
entire season, but in all honesty, that's where we're at.
The Steelers have always prided themselves on building through the draft.
(08:18):
In fact, in nineteen nine, after their four Super Bowl win,
there was a lot of conversation about every player who
want to ring that year was homegrown, drafted, or signs
the free agent by the Steelers, and that was true
for much of the decade. They would like to replicate
that if at all possible. The draft has an amazing
(08:44):
legacy with the Steelers. And we're joined out by Jim
Wexel cover the Steelers for a very long time steel
City insider. He's written a number of books. The last
one was about Troy Paula Mallo. But there's a brand
new one out. It's entitered on the clock behind the
(09:08):
scenes with the Pittsburgh Steelers at the NFL Draft, and
Jim joined us. Now, Jim, I just wanted to mention
it's a it's a great book at terrific reed. I
think any Steeler fan would just love this book to death.
Well I thought going into this season that I could
begin the marketing earlier than next March, right, right, yeah,
(09:28):
I mean we are talking about the draft right now.
They they traded Claypool for a high draft pick. We're
all we're all watching how the Bears are doing. Now,
what's that ticket went from forty three to what? So
that that's just a little kind of comic relief there.
But you know how much I've loved the draft over
the years, and this I think this is a chance
(09:49):
to storytell. And that's what I did with all these
Hall of famers. You know, uh, even you know Joe
Green's high school. There's stories about him scaring a the
team off the bus, um Terry Bradshaw's javelin throwing. I
love all that And when you can, you know, put
it together in story form instead of encyclopedic form. And
(10:11):
then and thereby all these pieces built super Bowl teams
or just Hall of famers, or as Greg Lloyd said
about the nineties, we rekindled the spirit and set it
up for the two thousands. Uh So that's the the history.
The draft tells the history of the Steelers, and I
felt putting it in a story form, makes it makes
(10:33):
it a history book, an interesting, fun history book for
not just young young guys, you know, young people. It
should be in every young person's library. With the Polar
Mallo book, I definitely feel that way. Uh So, but
our generation stand we can appreciate, uh the stories about
Bill Dudley, you know, they remind us of our our time.
(10:55):
You know. Well, um, it's an interesting because I've got
the book in front of me and I've read almost
all of it. But for those who are just being
initiated to the book, is it a story about individual players?
Is it about the Steelers philosophy? Behind the draft? Is about,
for example, a look behind in the war room, what
goes on on draft day. Well, um, there's a little
(11:19):
bit of all of that. Um, you know. Uh, it
tells the history and there's not of how they do
it because that's evolved. You know. As I pointed out,
Grantland Rice may have been their first scout. Uh he
wrote up Wizard White and uh Bill Dudley really big
(11:41):
late in their careers, and the Steelers were reading out
a draft magazines at that time. Um. And then Bill Livingston,
future Pittsburgh Press sports editor, he he got into he
was one of them. He was the first paid scout.
There's a newspaper guy we all know, the great newspaper guy,
Bill nun So. There's a lot of newspaper guys involved.
(12:03):
But I take you through the evolution of uh. You
know uh Urt. When Art Art Junior took over in
sixty five, I believe he took over it was a
bit of a joke by his dad. He went home
and told mom, I want to work for the team.
And mom said to Dad, you gotta find a place
for already. And Dad said, well, Betty Parker traded away
(12:24):
all the draft picks, so that's a safe place to put.
Art had a personnel. But five years later the chief
said it was the smartest move I ever made. Uh.
I'm wondering about the dedications of the draft. I mean,
most teams should do that, they have to do that.
But I'm wondering when when Dan came in uh and
(12:45):
took over for the chief the day to day operations,
is that where we're building through the draft? Is that
really where it started? Yeah? And and you know it's funny.
The newspaper men of the day complained about the higher
of Buddy Parker saying that they needed a GM and
this guy, this guy has no regard for drafting, and
(13:07):
they felt drafting was the wave of the future. And
this is in the fifties, so even some of the
newsmen were pretty astute at the time. And then you know,
by the time Dan had the power to say no
to Buddy Parker, all the you know, the rest of
the sixties were just obliterated by trading of draft picks. So, yeah,
when Dan came in, UH, and then you know, Dan
(13:28):
opened up his Pittsburgh Courier one one fine day, didn't
recognize any of the names. And Bill Nunn's respected UH
Black College All America team in sixty seven, and he
knew this paper came out of Pittsburgh, and he ran
the banquet for Bill Nunn every year at the Hilton.
And he said, why don't I know any of these guys?
(13:49):
What are my scouts? How come Bill Nun doesn't cover
this team. He went down to the lobby of the
Roosevelt Hotel, UH said to the guy who was there
from the Courier, where's Bill Nun? Why doesn't he come here?
And and Dan running was told he he thinks you
guys run a clown show, and so he said, Dan
set up a meeting. I want to talk to Bill
nine about his opinions on this. Bill Nunn was a
(14:09):
Cleveland Browns fan. He would drive from the Hill District
with his buddies to go see the Browns and uh
Dan asked Bill, why why don't you cover this team?
And Bill told him, you know you, you guys are
a joke and I think you're racist. I don't know
about you, but I know Buddy Parker was. I have
a good idea Bill Austin is and uh I just
(14:29):
think it's a complete, uh you know, clown show, and
uh Dan hired him. Let's uh you know. Bill was
allowed to keep his Courier job, and there's some funny
incidents where holding both jobs as a part time scout
and the talent evaluator for the Black College All America
team for the Courier, he would hold guys off. He
held Elsie Greenwood off the Courier All Star team and
(14:52):
the hope that the Stewers would get a late round
sleeper and they did so. He played some of those
games and I had fun writing about that. Oh boy,
Bill none with what a great gentleman, how long did it?
It's a chickender the egg thing, Jim. How long did
it take Bill Nonne to gain the confidence of our
Rooney Jr. Um and the other members of the Scouts
(15:14):
and Dan Rooney? Um? I mean did it? Did it
take the signing of some of these L. C. Greenwood
and and you know Joe green and Dwight White? Is
that what he had to do to prove himself? Well,
Bill hasn't you know, Bill has passed and he hasn't said.
I found no record of his opinion other than he
really wanted Chuck Nolan, He and aartie you know already
(15:36):
said that he came around quickly. But what what is
anyone gonna say? Bill None? Then oh yeah, I agreed
with him right away, So I can't be positive. But
already said he came around right away. And uh then
you know when when Chuck no was being hired, when
he was being interviewed, already barged into the interview room
(15:57):
and wanted to know if Chuck, if Chuck was if
he was going to draft athletes, if he was going
to draft black athletes, and uh, you know, Chuck said
something like, I'm only prejudiced against slow people and stupid
people and things like that. You just find me athletes,
and and Art and Bill Nunne were just overjoyed to
hear the rhetoric that came from Chuck Noll. And sure enough,
(16:20):
first day Chuck was hired, he was, okay, now let's
go to the draft board. We I think the draft
was within a week. I forget exactly, but that first
draft was right away, and Chuck wanted to check the
draft board and he was relieved that they had the
same respect for Joe Green because he had been hearing
about Terry Hanraty as was the word around town with
(16:40):
the fourth pick. And but Chuck really wanted Joe Green,
and uh Areaty says that he did too, and they
had no problem with all of that. Was would have
been very close because you know, Chuck um had been
with Baltimore and they were defeated by the Jets in
the big upset, and then he became available. So yeah,
the high ring, uh couldn't have come, you know, much
(17:01):
before that. And back in those days, the draft was held.
I think it was on the last Tuesday in January.
Um in general, I don't want to give away all
the great stuff in the book, But um saw the
story about Joe Green scaring people. Uh tell us that story, Jim,
and I won't ask you to reveal anything more about
the about the stories in the book. He was a
(17:23):
frustrated young man. He felt he lived in a racist
town in Texas and uh the uh the black high
schools never got covered coverage from the local media and
they had to bust around to get on the right field.
And um, he he ran with the wrong crowd too,
and he was a junior in high school and he
lost to a team believer from Waco. I forget the
(17:48):
name of the town that Joe was in, but it
was a home game. Joe walked in to get his
usual post game ice cream or whatever he eat after
the game at the ice cream place, and the opposing
quarterback was eating an ice cream cone. Joe took it
out of his hand and shoved it in his face,
and one of the quarterbacks teammates threw a bottle at Joe,
and once Joe recovered HEAs the place empty, they ran
(18:11):
onto the bus. Joe chased him. The bus driver pulled
the door shut, and Joe just ripped open the door
slowly but surely and got them open, and by then
the team had poured out the back of the bus
and runaway. He was only a junior in high school.
Yeah the means Joe Green, Yeah, it rhymes and all that.
But he came here with a demeanor. There there no
(18:34):
question about that. And then hey, um, the guard's name
is I remember from Denver was Paul Howard. And he
punched him in the stomach. I'm surprised as fitted his
fish didn't come out the back of his spine. Uh.
And remember the incident with with Bob McKay, the Browns
offensive lineman. So he is his reputation uh preceded him, Jim.
(18:55):
When you look back, what did you learn about the
Steelers approach to the draft in doing your research and
writing the book? Well, you know, Dan Rooney was I
think it's more about the people. You know. Dan Rooney
made it a priority and went and got Bill None.
And Bill None teaming with Chuck Noll was devastating for
(19:18):
for the rest of the NFL. And I don't know
that a philosophy was there other than Chuck wanted athletes
and build None opened the keys to the kingdom. Uh.
And and and just the study of Bill None and
the people he knew and the information he was able
to glean over his scouting contemporaries. You know, those guys
(19:41):
went to the black colleges too after a while. And uh,
I made a line in the book that, uh when
Bill Nunn was seen spotting, was was spotted scouting a
particular player, It was like the chief being spotted in
in line at a racing track, and who is he
gonna bet? Who was build on looking at the same thing.
(20:01):
It diminished the value of the player right away. So
they had to guard against what Bill Nunn was actually doing,
or it became a thing to look and see who
Bill Nunn was leaving off the College America All America team,
because that would be a tip as to who the
Steelers thought they could get as a sleeper. But you know,
and and it developed off of that, And I don't
(20:22):
mean to leave out the nineties and the yachts and
that all developed as well. You know, Tom Donahoe. Uh
I'll tell you one philosophy is that it's still up
to the coach. It's the head coach. He's got a
he leans on his personnel, director and general manager. But
it's the head coach, you know when Chuck, when Chuck
(20:43):
was arguing with Art Rooney Jr. About Franco, and Dan
Radakovich from Penn State, who was with the Steelers, finally
talked Chuck into drafting Franco. Radi coach looked at the
Chuck and said take him. And Chuck said, all right,
let's take the Penn State. Or he turned around and
looked at his personnel director already Jr. And said, you
(21:03):
better be right. Robert Newhouse. Robert new House the guy
that Chuck wanted. And there's a whole chapter called the
Penn State. Or Joe Green has said everything changed once
Franco came aboard. Jim as always. Uh. People know where
they can buy the book, Well, to the Amazon and uh,
(21:24):
I will be at my website very soon if you
want autograph copies, and I'm gonna have signings all over
Pittsburgh area, but right now to the Amazon, but it
won't be autographed our deep thanks to Jim Wuxell. Really
it's a terrific book you'll enjoy to make a great
Christmas gift for anybody, but get a copy for yourself.
It's available on Amazon, um and This is for uh,
(21:47):
you know, many of our out of town Steelers UH
folks who are looking for Steelers content. This will be
a great book to have and you made been't aware
of it otherwise. We're glad to pass that along to
you again. Jim Wexel. He's the author, um respected journalist
and it's available at Amazon dot com. Reminder that our
(22:07):
Steelers on Savann on Steelers podcast is available. Do editions
up twice weekly. We're glad that you were able to
find us. Hope you enjoyed the program. A reminder that
I am on every day on ESPN Pittsburgh nine seventy
a m. In Pittsburgh, or you can get it anywhere
in the world for that matter, on the I Heart
(22:28):
Media app. Just download the app. It is free. It
is free for you to listen to the show every day.
And a reminder that I'll be along with Charlie Batts
after the postgame show or during the postgame show after
the Saints game on Sunday. We get on the air
about twenty minutes after the game is over. That's it
for this edition of Savann on Steelers. I thank you
(22:48):
for listening so long. Everybody
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