December 27, 2022 • 26 mins
The city of Pittsburgh was able to experience a silver lining after losing Franco Harris when they beat the Raiders on Christmas Eve this past weekend 50 years after the Immaculate Reception. Stan is joined by Joe Gordon, the former PR director for the Steelers who was at Three Rivers Stadium for the famous play, and he was a firsthand witness to the remarkable career of Franco.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
As great as this contribution was on the Football Killer
would be a greater and the greater Pisburger community. Safering
on Steelers. Hello to all in Steelers Nation, and welcome
to the Savant on Steelers podcast. Time stand Savant, you're host.
We post up twice weekly. You can get our podcast
(00:22):
Steelers content only for Steelers Nation, of course, at Steelers
dot com. Just go to Steelers dot com and you
can listen to the podcast right then and there. Normally
we're getting comments from writer's broadcasters, um observers about the Steelers,
their most recent game, their upcoming opponent, issues involving the team.
(00:46):
But something happened not all that long ago, less than
a week ago, that shook Steelers Nation and yours truly
to his core. And that is the unexpected tragic passing
of Franco Harris. And so I thought that, even though
(01:07):
we're about a week out from that, that Franco's greatness
and his reach and footsteps in touching Steelers Nation and
all those connected to it was so great and so
wide that we'd be remiss if we didn't devote at
least one of these podcasts to his life and times
and legacy I've often thought that the Immaculate Reception, which
(01:34):
of course celebrated the fiftieth anniversary of that. I always
thought that maybe that the Immaculate Reception, even though is
voted the NFL's greatest play of all time, may have
actually detracted from Franco's legacy. And the reason I say
that is it overshadowed what was a brilliant Hall of
(01:58):
Fame career. M Now, certainly that would never be the
case in Pittsburgh. Everybody who is from Pittsburgh, Western Pennsylvania
or follows the Steelers knew full well what a great
player Franco was. But there are people out there who
(02:20):
are far removed. There are people out there who weren't
alive at the time of the Immaculate Reception. After all,
we're talking fifty years. Who may hear the name Franco
Harrison say oh, yeah, the Immaculate Reception guy, and leave
(02:41):
it at that, and forgetting about what a dominant force
he was. Nine consecutive Pro Bowls, Paul of Fame, all
those yards gained M and I thought him being tagged
(03:03):
with that one play, not that that's a bad play
to be tagged with, may have detracted some from his
legacy from those who weren't around at the time or
didn't follow the Steelers as closely as you and I,
and so it's important to remember what a tremendous player
(03:26):
he was, and made notable by no less an authority
than Joe Green, who would often say that Franco was
the missing piece that at the time he came, while
(03:48):
the Dynasty years were still ahead of them, the defense
was already assembled. He had two Hall of Fame wide
receivers m he had one of the greatest quarterbacks whoever
lived to play the game to round out the passing attack.
(04:12):
But they were missing that running back in the Chuck
Noll style trapping game. They had not yet developed that.
But when Franco showed up, the Dynasty years were under way,
(04:34):
and while the macular reception may have proven that, the
way they won Super Bowl nine certainly cemented that fact.
Franco a hundred and fifty eight yards in the win
over the Vikings. Franco was the missing piece rounding out
(04:58):
a great running attack to go with what would become
once the rules changed, a devastating aerial attack added on
to by guys like Jimmy Smith, theod Bell. It also
(05:23):
always seemed to me that Franco was special as more
than just a football player. For one who has lived
in Pittsburgh forty seven years, I saw firsthand the work
he did in the community. And sometimes we kind of
pooh pooh that, and so that's nice. But in Franco's case,
(05:48):
it was more than nice because it continued well after
his playing days. It's one thing to be out there
and appearing in events when the interest in you is
high because of your playing days. It's another to continue
that long after your playing career ended. I Franco's playing
(06:11):
career ended twenty eight years ago already, and yet you
could see him. I did see him at many charitable events,
always visible, always organizing. If you had a foundation you
(06:32):
wanted to start, and you called Franco, he'd be there.
He truly was one of the nicest human beings I've
ever met. It makes sense for an athlete to stay
(06:53):
in the town where he excelled with a team. It's
a smart business decision, so the players should never be
chastised for that. It also seems logical that a player
who won championships as a member of a team that
(07:17):
was a champion to stay in that town. The business
opportunities are open to you and virtually endless. But that's
not what made Franco and Pittsburgh such a great match.
I'm not sure I know how to describe this. I'm
(07:38):
not sure anybody really knows. But Franco belonged here. It
wasn't just that he was a four time super Bowl champion,
nine time Pro bowler, Hall of Fame, or that he
really took great delight in participating in charitable events. It's
(08:00):
just that Franco belonged here. Franco was a Pittsburgh guy.
Whatever that entails, whatever definition you want to use, Franco
just fit here in Pittsburgh. He belonged here. We often
forget that he is a New Jersey native, displace not
(08:25):
that far to go to Penn State, but displaced yet
again to come to Pittsburgh out of Penn State. But
he belonged here. If you wanted to paint a portrait
of a Pittsburgh guy, Franco was it just His attitude
(08:47):
about things is willingness and desire to the community service.
That's what Pittsburgh is all about, and that's what Frank
Franco Harris was all about as well. I developed a
nice relationship with Franco over the years. There's always some
(09:07):
barrier between a reporter and an athlete. But beyond his
playing days, I would see Franco at various charitable events.
He always had a kind word for me, as he
did for everyone. I considered him a friend. Most people
considered him to be exactly that we're joining out by
(09:28):
Joe Gordon, who was the public relations executive with the
Steelers through those dynasty years. And then some Hey Joe, welcome,
happy holidays, Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure before
we start talking about Franco. Um. You were there obviously
at Three Rivers when it occurred. Were you in the
(09:49):
press box where you downstairs going to the locker room? Um?
And based on the tape that you see, the film
that you see, it was just sheer pandemonium. Would that
be the best way to just ribbit? Absolutely? My position
in the press box, coincidentally wanted on a direct line
(10:09):
to the forty yard line, and I saw the whole
play unfold right in front of my eyes. But to
be honest with you, stand I wasn't sure whether Jack
had him deflected the ball or French he did, and
I wasn't convinced. I didn't know for sure whether Franco
(10:29):
caught the ball before touched the ground, but I saw
the whole thing, and then of course once he got
the ball and ran down the left sideline, I saw
the entire play for from there were people in the
press box. Um subdued, well, you know the no no
cheering in the press box, but UM awaiting word as
(10:51):
to whether were they aware of the rule that two
offensive players at that time could not touch the ball
back to back. No, I know think they were really
aware of the rule. But the the attitude, the sense
in the press book was really depression because it looked
(11:12):
like Steelers were going to lose before that play unfolded.
But uh Fred Share swearing Swearingen, who was a referee,
he can Buff Boston, who was our field manager, came
over to the Pirate dug on. There was a ringdown
phone there and he picked up the phone and it
(11:35):
rang at my position in the press box, and uh
Buff said, Swengin wants to talk to McNally, meaning Artmannallely,
who was the director of officialing for the NFL and
was at the game obviously, And the next thing. I
knew McNally was next to me, so I ended on
(11:56):
the phone. I said, Swearingson wants its occu art, and
Art picked up the phone and he said, what did
you see and whatever? Swearingson said here. So when the
ally said, then call it, and that conversation stand prolasts
and no more than fifteen or twenty seconds, and Swearingson
(12:19):
went out on field, raised his arms and the celebration continued.
So you were one of the first people to know
based on hearing half a conversation up in the press box. Yeah. Right,
when he said, uh, then call it, I immediately knew
that he was going to call call it a touchdown.
(12:41):
This is purely speculative, but let's just assume for the
sake of discussion that there had been instant replay. Um,
my guess is they would have said, we called it
a touchdown on the field and the video is inconclusive
as to whether there's enough to overturn it. You think
that's the way when it turned out, I think he had.
(13:02):
That would be typical because that's pretty much the way
they make those rulings today based on the call on
the field, and it's hard to overturn it, especially if
it's not real conclusive, which to this day, when I
see it, I still can make a decision. Of course,
Frenchie has milked it for fifty years. He has, and
(13:26):
he's still I interviewed him a couple of years ago.
He's still going along with that last thing about the
actual experience. What was the locker room, like Joe, when
you finally got down there. Oh, it's pandemonium, of course.
And it's as you recall, the Chief was in the
elevator on his way down, which was typical of him.
He always at home games, always came down after the game, uh,
(13:52):
talk to the players. And he was on his way
down the consoler players. Because he didn't though was that
he got off the l Later in the security guard
yelled at we won, we won that. She said, how
do we win? How could we win? And he said, well,
Franco scored a touchdown. You won. And then he came
(14:14):
into the uh, the dressing room, and like I said,
it was pandemonium. We're gonna hear from Aunt Rooney in
a rare interview then he did with a guy you knew, well,
Tom bender, Um, we've been able to secure that we're
gonna play that, um the next segment. Um. Um. You
know one thing about Franco, Uh stand, he was a
(14:37):
big back with a little little backs moves, you know,
and that he was like two thirty two thirty five.
And now that's a common way for running backs, but
it was unusual in that era. And uh he had
the shifting nous, the nimbleness. Uh, you know, a small
(14:57):
back with a big back side. I likened him as
the closest thing to Jimmy Brown because he was a
big man at sixty. Uh you know, yet he had
great speed and ran like a halfback. Um. And I
don't know, Joe, you share with me that the Immaculate
Reception and some sort of obtuse way um, sort of
(15:20):
draws away from Franco's legacy um as as great back
as he was. Yeah, I agree with you. Like most people,
especially the younger generation, who've heard of the Immaculate Reception,
they just attribute that as the highlight of Franco's career,
(15:41):
which it was. But when you realize how productive he
was as a running back, and a lot of people
don't realize this. When we had the contract dispute in
four with Franco. He was only about four d and
fifty yards away from passing Jim Brown is the all
(16:02):
time leading UH Russia in NFL history. Yeah, that's that's
people have to understand, Um that only Walter Payton and
Jimmy Brown were ahead of him at his retirement. And
the only game I think maybe a couple hundred yards
when he went to Seattle and it was only their fright,
(16:23):
I think about five, five or six games. Yeah, that's all.
That was it, and that was that was the end. Uh.
We had Jack cam on yesterday Joe and I asked
him what was he like at Penn State? It was
a year behind and it was kind of a quiet guy. Um.
What was frankl like as a rookie number one draft choice? Um?
(16:43):
Was he kind of quiet and subdued, very quiet. Uh,
just kind of took his place among the rookies. And Uh,
one thing I remember very significantly. He was not very
impressive in the early days of training camp, and some
assistant coaches were saying, hey, maybe we made a mistake,
(17:05):
Maybe we should have taken Robert new House, which was
Chuck's preference, uh in the draft, and he was convinced
by Art Rooney Jr. And Dick hay Lee to take Franco.
But then we played a preseason game in uh Atlanta
and he exploded as for an eighty yard run, which
(17:26):
was unbelievable. He hit that hole, you know, and he
always kind of like looked around to see where the
whole was. He didn't always immediately move into the line.
He saw the whole, and I mean it was unbelievable.
And after that game, everybody in the organization knew that
(17:46):
this guy was something special. You know. It's funny because
both Jack Cam yesterday and the show and uh, I've
heard Joe Green say that, you know many times that
that burst in Atlanta, even in an exhibition in game show,
anybody um were there. He wasn't a great practice player,
didn't interest him a great deal. Chuck used to open
(18:09):
up every training camp in the troupe with the Oklahoma's
and Franco made it a habit of running outside the
pylons of the dummies, which didn't He hated that, yeah,
but also too in practice when he would run a
play regardless of where it was, and even if it
(18:30):
was a non contact drill, and usually even the contact
was uh typical contact in the game. He would run
all the way into the end zone every play. The
other thing I recalled about the striking contrast that today
is Uh, when Franco scored a touchdown, if you remember,
(18:54):
he just put the wall on the ground. Yeah, no celebration,
and I think special in contrast that today what happens. Ah,
that may be a tributal to Joe Paterno saying act
like you've been there before. That into them Joe as
(19:15):
a person. Uh. People may not be aware of this,
but when rookies come into the steel organization, um, they
are paired up. UM if they don't have a preference
with a charity, UM or or some sort of community group.
That's how the Steelers get so invested in the community
and why they remain so popular. I remember you saying
to me one time, you know, we're not always going
(19:37):
to be twelve and four and win Super bowls. Um. Uh.
Was Franco on board with all that, because when we
look at his later life, that's basically all he did.
There are a million different charities that he was unbelievable.
He never said no to anyone. And I've said it
all week, and I've said it for years as great
(19:58):
as his contributors, and was on the football field, it
was even greater in the greater Pittsburgh community. But to
give you an example, and his rookie year was after
training camp, after we broke training camp, when we came
back to Pittsburgh, I got a call that there was
a young boy who had a terminal illness of Children's
(20:20):
hospital and would it be possible for a he was
a Steeler fan, even though he was very young, would
it be possible for somebody to visit him. So I
went into a dressing room after practice and I said,
just addressed anybody who was still in there, somewhere, still
in the shower, others were still getting their equipment off,
(20:43):
and I explained to him and there was like a hesitation,
like no response for about two or three minutes, and
Franco said, I'll go. And that was just so typical
of him. And at that time, if you remember, he
did not have an automobile, a car. He used that
(21:04):
he used to take the bus. He lived in a slivery.
He used to take of us, so he took of
us the children's hospital. And that that was just typical Franco.
I mean, it's such a special human beings. It's really
sad that the time you of this this week, it
(21:25):
was just so unfortunate. Yeah, it's almost cruel, ironically cruel. Um.
We had a conversation before you came on the air,
UM and UM. I was fortunate enough to be there
the day that they announced that they were going to
retire Franco's number, UM, And they had a little mini
(21:46):
press conference there and he visited with me on the
air for a while. And the thing that I thought of,
like you, Joe, how unfortunate that here was this moment
not only a big moment of his life, but I mean,
he loved the Steelers organization, he truly did, and for
them to retire his number, only the third in history,
it meant so much, UM. And I'm sure he would
(22:09):
have relished no matter the weather in the ceremony Saturday night.
But I took some small measure of solace in that
Franco knew before his passing that he was going to
get this honor. It's not like they were gonna surprise
him with its Saturday, but he knew, and I think
he took that joy with him, no question. What do
(22:32):
you remember back to the press conference when Art the
Second announced that they were going to retire its jersey
and jersey number, and he was there. I mean, he
was just so happy. Uh you know, he had that
big smile. That's the other day. I never saw a
(22:52):
guy who smiled as much as Franco made joke. Green
said that he was the missing piece from a football perspective. Um,
you know, just about everything else was in place, the
defense certainly, the wide receivers, the quarterback, the offensive line,
(23:14):
but he was the missing piece. Do you believe without
him or with Robert Newhouse, that the Steelers ever developed
the dynasty of the seventies. No. No, Like Joe Green said,
before Franco came, we never made the playoffs, And when
he came, we made and made straight years. And I
(23:35):
think that that's the bottom line on that. I don't
I don't think anybody could have brought the team together
the way he did and made the big plays and
played Steeler football. He he was obviously the key, but
also the Steel Curtain was a major factor. But I
I personally don't think we would have won four Super
(23:58):
Bowls without Franco. We may even may not even even
one Super Bowl nine If you remember at halftime the
score was two to nothing. In Franco gain a hundred
fifty eight yards in that game, a Super Bowl record.
But more importantly, um, he was just a great human being.
(24:18):
There aren't many like him. I imagine it'll be a
while before we see anybody close to just the human
being that Franco Harris was. I'll give you another example
of that. Stand during the pandemic. He used to call
me every two or three weeks and he said, you're okay,
(24:39):
do you need anything? If you need anything, give me
a call. And I'll bet you he did that with
twenty other people. How much he cared about other people. Yeah,
it's it's a void that cannot be cannot be closed. Joe,
I really appreciate the time. Uh, and you're in site
(25:00):
and your expertise. No one knows more than you what
the immaculate reception meant to the city, the franchise, and
no one knows more than you what Franco meant to
all of us in each in our own individual ways. Again,
I want to thank you at the time. It's great
catching up with you. And as soon as I can
get out of the house, we'll do that. Lunch we
talked about all right. Thanks for having me stand and
(25:23):
have a good holiday. Thanks Joe, you too. Bye bye.
We post up and you can get us at Steelers
dot com. I invite you to listen to my daily
radio show. It's on ESPN Pittsburgh. That's a m or
you can get it merely by downloading the I Heart
media app. Comes in clear as a bell. Non't matter
(25:45):
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Love the Show, and on the radio station's Twitter account.
(26:06):
You can also catch me and Charlie Batch on the
Steelers post game shows about fifteen minutes after each Steeler
game has concluded. Thanks for joining me today on Saverean
on Steelers
As great as this contribution was on the Football Killer
would be a greater and the greater Pisburger community. Safering
on Steelers. Hello to all in Steelers Nation, and welcome
to the Savant on Steelers podcast. Time stand Savant, you're host.
We post up twice weekly. You can get our podcast
(00:22):
Steelers content only for Steelers Nation, of course, at Steelers
dot com. Just go to Steelers dot com and you
can listen to the podcast right then and there. Normally
we're getting comments from writer's broadcasters, um observers about the Steelers,
their most recent game, their upcoming opponent, issues involving the team.
(00:46):
But something happened not all that long ago, less than
a week ago, that shook Steelers Nation and yours truly
to his core. And that is the unexpected tragic passing
of Franco Harris. And so I thought that, even though
(01:07):
we're about a week out from that, that Franco's greatness
and his reach and footsteps in touching Steelers Nation and
all those connected to it was so great and so
wide that we'd be remiss if we didn't devote at
least one of these podcasts to his life and times
and legacy I've often thought that the Immaculate Reception, which
(01:34):
of course celebrated the fiftieth anniversary of that. I always
thought that maybe that the Immaculate Reception, even though is
voted the NFL's greatest play of all time, may have
actually detracted from Franco's legacy. And the reason I say
that is it overshadowed what was a brilliant Hall of
(01:58):
Fame career. M Now, certainly that would never be the
case in Pittsburgh. Everybody who is from Pittsburgh, Western Pennsylvania
or follows the Steelers knew full well what a great
player Franco was. But there are people out there who
(02:20):
are far removed. There are people out there who weren't
alive at the time of the Immaculate Reception. After all,
we're talking fifty years. Who may hear the name Franco
Harrison say oh, yeah, the Immaculate Reception guy, and leave
(02:41):
it at that, and forgetting about what a dominant force
he was. Nine consecutive Pro Bowls, Paul of Fame, all
those yards gained M and I thought him being tagged
(03:03):
with that one play, not that that's a bad play
to be tagged with, may have detracted some from his
legacy from those who weren't around at the time or
didn't follow the Steelers as closely as you and I,
and so it's important to remember what a tremendous player
(03:26):
he was, and made notable by no less an authority
than Joe Green, who would often say that Franco was
the missing piece that at the time he came, while
(03:48):
the Dynasty years were still ahead of them, the defense
was already assembled. He had two Hall of Fame wide
receivers m he had one of the greatest quarterbacks whoever
lived to play the game to round out the passing attack.
(04:12):
But they were missing that running back in the Chuck
Noll style trapping game. They had not yet developed that.
But when Franco showed up, the Dynasty years were under way,
(04:34):
and while the macular reception may have proven that, the
way they won Super Bowl nine certainly cemented that fact.
Franco a hundred and fifty eight yards in the win
over the Vikings. Franco was the missing piece rounding out
(04:58):
a great running attack to go with what would become
once the rules changed, a devastating aerial attack added on
to by guys like Jimmy Smith, theod Bell. It also
(05:23):
always seemed to me that Franco was special as more
than just a football player. For one who has lived
in Pittsburgh forty seven years, I saw firsthand the work
he did in the community. And sometimes we kind of
pooh pooh that, and so that's nice. But in Franco's case,
(05:48):
it was more than nice because it continued well after
his playing days. It's one thing to be out there
and appearing in events when the interest in you is
high because of your playing days. It's another to continue
that long after your playing career ended. I Franco's playing
(06:11):
career ended twenty eight years ago already, and yet you
could see him. I did see him at many charitable events,
always visible, always organizing. If you had a foundation you
(06:32):
wanted to start, and you called Franco, he'd be there.
He truly was one of the nicest human beings I've
ever met. It makes sense for an athlete to stay
(06:53):
in the town where he excelled with a team. It's
a smart business decision, so the players should never be
chastised for that. It also seems logical that a player
who won championships as a member of a team that
(07:17):
was a champion to stay in that town. The business
opportunities are open to you and virtually endless. But that's
not what made Franco and Pittsburgh such a great match.
I'm not sure I know how to describe this. I'm
(07:38):
not sure anybody really knows. But Franco belonged here. It
wasn't just that he was a four time super Bowl champion,
nine time Pro bowler, Hall of Fame, or that he
really took great delight in participating in charitable events. It's
(08:00):
just that Franco belonged here. Franco was a Pittsburgh guy.
Whatever that entails, whatever definition you want to use, Franco
just fit here in Pittsburgh. He belonged here. We often
forget that he is a New Jersey native, displace not
(08:25):
that far to go to Penn State, but displaced yet
again to come to Pittsburgh out of Penn State. But
he belonged here. If you wanted to paint a portrait
of a Pittsburgh guy, Franco was it just His attitude
(08:47):
about things is willingness and desire to the community service.
That's what Pittsburgh is all about, and that's what Frank
Franco Harris was all about as well. I developed a
nice relationship with Franco over the years. There's always some
(09:07):
barrier between a reporter and an athlete. But beyond his
playing days, I would see Franco at various charitable events.
He always had a kind word for me, as he
did for everyone. I considered him a friend. Most people
considered him to be exactly that we're joining out by
(09:28):
Joe Gordon, who was the public relations executive with the
Steelers through those dynasty years. And then some Hey Joe, welcome,
happy holidays, Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure before
we start talking about Franco. Um. You were there obviously
at Three Rivers when it occurred. Were you in the
(09:49):
press box where you downstairs going to the locker room? Um?
And based on the tape that you see, the film
that you see, it was just sheer pandemonium. Would that
be the best way to just ribbit? Absolutely? My position
in the press box, coincidentally wanted on a direct line
(10:09):
to the forty yard line, and I saw the whole
play unfold right in front of my eyes. But to
be honest with you, stand I wasn't sure whether Jack
had him deflected the ball or French he did, and
I wasn't convinced. I didn't know for sure whether Franco
(10:29):
caught the ball before touched the ground, but I saw
the whole thing, and then of course once he got
the ball and ran down the left sideline, I saw
the entire play for from there were people in the
press box. Um subdued, well, you know the no no
cheering in the press box, but UM awaiting word as
(10:51):
to whether were they aware of the rule that two
offensive players at that time could not touch the ball
back to back. No, I know think they were really
aware of the rule. But the the attitude, the sense
in the press book was really depression because it looked
(11:12):
like Steelers were going to lose before that play unfolded.
But uh Fred Share swearing Swearingen, who was a referee,
he can Buff Boston, who was our field manager, came
over to the Pirate dug on. There was a ringdown
phone there and he picked up the phone and it
(11:35):
rang at my position in the press box, and uh
Buff said, Swengin wants to talk to McNally, meaning Artmannallely,
who was the director of officialing for the NFL and
was at the game obviously, And the next thing. I
knew McNally was next to me, so I ended on
(11:56):
the phone. I said, Swearingson wants its occu art, and
Art picked up the phone and he said, what did
you see and whatever? Swearingson said here. So when the
ally said, then call it, and that conversation stand prolasts
and no more than fifteen or twenty seconds, and Swearingson
(12:19):
went out on field, raised his arms and the celebration continued.
So you were one of the first people to know
based on hearing half a conversation up in the press box. Yeah. Right,
when he said, uh, then call it, I immediately knew
that he was going to call call it a touchdown.
(12:41):
This is purely speculative, but let's just assume for the
sake of discussion that there had been instant replay. Um,
my guess is they would have said, we called it
a touchdown on the field and the video is inconclusive
as to whether there's enough to overturn it. You think
that's the way when it turned out, I think he had.
(13:02):
That would be typical because that's pretty much the way
they make those rulings today based on the call on
the field, and it's hard to overturn it, especially if
it's not real conclusive, which to this day, when I
see it, I still can make a decision. Of course,
Frenchie has milked it for fifty years. He has, and
(13:26):
he's still I interviewed him a couple of years ago.
He's still going along with that last thing about the
actual experience. What was the locker room, like Joe, when
you finally got down there. Oh, it's pandemonium, of course.
And it's as you recall, the Chief was in the
elevator on his way down, which was typical of him.
He always at home games, always came down after the game, uh,
(13:52):
talk to the players. And he was on his way
down the consoler players. Because he didn't though was that
he got off the l Later in the security guard
yelled at we won, we won that. She said, how
do we win? How could we win? And he said, well,
Franco scored a touchdown. You won. And then he came
(14:14):
into the uh, the dressing room, and like I said,
it was pandemonium. We're gonna hear from Aunt Rooney in
a rare interview then he did with a guy you knew, well,
Tom bender, Um, we've been able to secure that we're
gonna play that, um the next segment. Um. Um. You
know one thing about Franco, Uh stand, he was a
(14:37):
big back with a little little backs moves, you know,
and that he was like two thirty two thirty five.
And now that's a common way for running backs, but
it was unusual in that era. And uh he had
the shifting nous, the nimbleness. Uh, you know, a small
(14:57):
back with a big back side. I likened him as
the closest thing to Jimmy Brown because he was a
big man at sixty. Uh you know, yet he had
great speed and ran like a halfback. Um. And I
don't know, Joe, you share with me that the Immaculate
Reception and some sort of obtuse way um, sort of
(15:20):
draws away from Franco's legacy um as as great back
as he was. Yeah, I agree with you. Like most people,
especially the younger generation, who've heard of the Immaculate Reception,
they just attribute that as the highlight of Franco's career,
(15:41):
which it was. But when you realize how productive he
was as a running back, and a lot of people
don't realize this. When we had the contract dispute in
four with Franco. He was only about four d and
fifty yards away from passing Jim Brown is the all
(16:02):
time leading UH Russia in NFL history. Yeah, that's that's
people have to understand, Um that only Walter Payton and
Jimmy Brown were ahead of him at his retirement. And
the only game I think maybe a couple hundred yards
when he went to Seattle and it was only their fright,
(16:23):
I think about five, five or six games. Yeah, that's all.
That was it, and that was that was the end. Uh.
We had Jack cam on yesterday Joe and I asked
him what was he like at Penn State? It was
a year behind and it was kind of a quiet guy. Um.
What was frankl like as a rookie number one draft choice? Um?
(16:43):
Was he kind of quiet and subdued, very quiet. Uh,
just kind of took his place among the rookies. And Uh,
one thing I remember very significantly. He was not very
impressive in the early days of training camp, and some
assistant coaches were saying, hey, maybe we made a mistake,
(17:05):
Maybe we should have taken Robert new House, which was
Chuck's preference, uh in the draft, and he was convinced
by Art Rooney Jr. And Dick hay Lee to take Franco.
But then we played a preseason game in uh Atlanta
and he exploded as for an eighty yard run, which
(17:26):
was unbelievable. He hit that hole, you know, and he
always kind of like looked around to see where the
whole was. He didn't always immediately move into the line.
He saw the whole, and I mean it was unbelievable.
And after that game, everybody in the organization knew that
(17:46):
this guy was something special. You know. It's funny because
both Jack Cam yesterday and the show and uh, I've
heard Joe Green say that, you know many times that
that burst in Atlanta, even in an exhibition in game show,
anybody um were there. He wasn't a great practice player,
didn't interest him a great deal. Chuck used to open
(18:09):
up every training camp in the troupe with the Oklahoma's
and Franco made it a habit of running outside the
pylons of the dummies, which didn't He hated that, yeah,
but also too in practice when he would run a
play regardless of where it was, and even if it
(18:30):
was a non contact drill, and usually even the contact
was uh typical contact in the game. He would run
all the way into the end zone every play. The
other thing I recalled about the striking contrast that today
is Uh, when Franco scored a touchdown, if you remember,
(18:54):
he just put the wall on the ground. Yeah, no celebration,
and I think special in contrast that today what happens. Ah,
that may be a tributal to Joe Paterno saying act
like you've been there before. That into them Joe as
(19:15):
a person. Uh. People may not be aware of this,
but when rookies come into the steel organization, um, they
are paired up. UM if they don't have a preference
with a charity, UM or or some sort of community group.
That's how the Steelers get so invested in the community
and why they remain so popular. I remember you saying
to me one time, you know, we're not always going
(19:37):
to be twelve and four and win Super bowls. Um. Uh.
Was Franco on board with all that, because when we
look at his later life, that's basically all he did.
There are a million different charities that he was unbelievable.
He never said no to anyone. And I've said it
all week, and I've said it for years as great
(19:58):
as his contributors, and was on the football field, it
was even greater in the greater Pittsburgh community. But to
give you an example, and his rookie year was after
training camp, after we broke training camp, when we came
back to Pittsburgh, I got a call that there was
a young boy who had a terminal illness of Children's
(20:20):
hospital and would it be possible for a he was
a Steeler fan, even though he was very young, would
it be possible for somebody to visit him. So I
went into a dressing room after practice and I said,
just addressed anybody who was still in there, somewhere, still
in the shower, others were still getting their equipment off,
(20:43):
and I explained to him and there was like a hesitation,
like no response for about two or three minutes, and
Franco said, I'll go. And that was just so typical
of him. And at that time, if you remember, he
did not have an automobile, a car. He used that
(21:04):
he used to take the bus. He lived in a slivery.
He used to take of us, so he took of
us the children's hospital. And that that was just typical Franco.
I mean, it's such a special human beings. It's really
sad that the time you of this this week, it
(21:25):
was just so unfortunate. Yeah, it's almost cruel, ironically cruel. Um.
We had a conversation before you came on the air,
UM and UM. I was fortunate enough to be there
the day that they announced that they were going to
retire Franco's number, UM, And they had a little mini
(21:46):
press conference there and he visited with me on the
air for a while. And the thing that I thought of,
like you, Joe, how unfortunate that here was this moment
not only a big moment of his life, but I mean,
he loved the Steelers organization, he truly did, and for
them to retire his number, only the third in history,
it meant so much, UM. And I'm sure he would
(22:09):
have relished no matter the weather in the ceremony Saturday night.
But I took some small measure of solace in that
Franco knew before his passing that he was going to
get this honor. It's not like they were gonna surprise
him with its Saturday, but he knew, and I think
he took that joy with him, no question. What do
(22:32):
you remember back to the press conference when Art the
Second announced that they were going to retire its jersey
and jersey number, and he was there. I mean, he
was just so happy. Uh you know, he had that
big smile. That's the other day. I never saw a
(22:52):
guy who smiled as much as Franco made joke. Green
said that he was the missing piece from a football perspective. Um,
you know, just about everything else was in place, the
defense certainly, the wide receivers, the quarterback, the offensive line,
(23:14):
but he was the missing piece. Do you believe without
him or with Robert Newhouse, that the Steelers ever developed
the dynasty of the seventies. No. No, Like Joe Green said,
before Franco came, we never made the playoffs, And when
he came, we made and made straight years. And I
(23:35):
think that that's the bottom line on that. I don't
I don't think anybody could have brought the team together
the way he did and made the big plays and
played Steeler football. He he was obviously the key, but
also the Steel Curtain was a major factor. But I
I personally don't think we would have won four Super
(23:58):
Bowls without Franco. We may even may not even even
one Super Bowl nine If you remember at halftime the
score was two to nothing. In Franco gain a hundred
fifty eight yards in that game, a Super Bowl record.
But more importantly, um, he was just a great human being.
(24:18):
There aren't many like him. I imagine it'll be a
while before we see anybody close to just the human
being that Franco Harris was. I'll give you another example
of that. Stand during the pandemic. He used to call
me every two or three weeks and he said, you're okay,
(24:39):
do you need anything? If you need anything, give me
a call. And I'll bet you he did that with
twenty other people. How much he cared about other people. Yeah,
it's it's a void that cannot be cannot be closed. Joe,
I really appreciate the time. Uh, and you're in site
(25:00):
and your expertise. No one knows more than you what
the immaculate reception meant to the city, the franchise, and
no one knows more than you what Franco meant to
all of us in each in our own individual ways. Again,
I want to thank you at the time. It's great
catching up with you. And as soon as I can
get out of the house, we'll do that. Lunch we
talked about all right. Thanks for having me stand and
(25:23):
have a good holiday. Thanks Joe, you too. Bye bye.
We post up and you can get us at Steelers
dot com. I invite you to listen to my daily
radio show. It's on ESPN Pittsburgh. That's a m or
you can get it merely by downloading the I Heart
media app. Comes in clear as a bell. Non't matter
(25:45):
what part of the country you happen to be on
if you want to listen to it live. We're on
every day noon to two Eastern time, but we also
send it up on the podcast on Twitter at stand
Love the Show, and on the radio station's Twitter account.
(26:06):
You can also catch me and Charlie Batch on the
Steelers post game shows about fifteen minutes after each Steeler
game has concluded. Thanks for joining me today on Saverean
on Steelers
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