Laura Kane // The Woman, The Legend And The Most Senior Person In Football At The AFL

Given International Women’s Day fell on a Saturday this year, consider this week’s conversation our annual dedication episode. And I don’t think we could have a more perfect guest for the occasion than the woman currently holding the highest position that exists in one of the most traditionally male dominated landscapes in Australia… the AFL.

We are so lucky to have Laura Kane with us today, the Executive General Manager of Football at the AFL since August 2023. We so often talk about how you don’t need to know where you’ll end up because the job you’ll have might not even exist - well, Laura’s did exist only just not for women until she became the first woman to take the reins then build an executive team around her that’s 40% women and counting.

Getting her Mum to write a letter to her school so she could play Auskick and not netball, Laura’s love for footy has been longstanding but coming up before women could play football professionally, she started her career in law instead. This was not the only thing we had in common either - with a career as stellar as hers, I expected her to be much older but we both grew up in the 90s era of Nokia 3310s and it humbled me immensely to realise we’re the same age.

As a powerful, intelligent, but incredibly down to earth woman (who I actually met through Ang so that gives you an idea of the kind of legend she is), I was and still am fangirling hard so I’ll stop myself there before I read out her entire life story and she tells it way better herself. I hope you are as inspired by Laura as I am.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Just challenge yourself, even within the job that you're doing,
to do it as well as you possibly can, because
people take notice. I take notice of team members who
do that. That is one thing I learned at a
footy club. Think about what your superpowers are and think
about what you're good at and what you bring to
the team, and don't worry about the ten things that
you can't do because other people can do those instead.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to the sees the Yay Podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too
rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then
we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize
there's more than one way. So this is a platform
to hear and explore the stories of those who found
lives They adore, the good, bad and ugly.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
The best and worst day will bear all the facets
of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful
of Sarah, a lawyer turned unentrepreneur who swapped the suits
and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk
Bark CZA is a series of conversations on finding a
life you love and exploring the self out challenge joy

(01:01):
and fulfillment.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Along the way.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Given that International Women's Day fell on a Saturday this year,
considered this week's conversation to be our annual dedication episode.
And I don't think we could have had a more
perfect guest for the occasion than the woman currently holding
the highest position that exists in one of the most
traditionally male dominated landscapes in Australia, the AFL. We are

(01:27):
so lucky to have Laura Kine with us today, the
executive General Manager of Football at the AFL since August
twenty twenty three. We so often talk on CZA about
how you don't need to know where you'll end up
because the job you'll end up having might not even exist. Yet. Well,
Laura's did exist, just not for women until she became
the first woman to take the reins, then build an

(01:49):
executive team around her that's forty percent women, and counting
getting her mum to write a letter to her school
so she'd be allowed to play oskig instead of netball.
Laura's love for footy has been long standing, but growing
up before women could play football professionally, she started her
professional life in law instead. This wasn't the only thing
we had in common either with a career as Stella

(02:10):
as hers. I completely expected her to be much older,
but it turns out we both grew up in the
nineties era of playing Snake on Nokia thirty three tens,
and it humbled me immensely to learn that we're the
same age as a powerful, intelligent, but incredibly down to
earth woman who I actually connected with through and so
that gives you an idea already of the kind of legend. Sheers,

(02:31):
and thank you so much, Anne for the hookup. I
was and still am fangirling so hard. So I will
stop myself there before I read out her entire life
story and gush my way through an hour without even
introducing her. I mean, obviously, she tells her own story
way better herself. I hope you guys are as inspired
by Laura as I am. Laura Caine, Welcome to Cca.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Thank you, it's great to be here.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Orcano, I believe is one of the.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Names, one of many.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
That's my so I love that you have an afl wname.
You had an AFL name, And then there's I would
have called you my learned friend originally back in our
legal careers. There's so many hats that you have worn
so many and I mean, I'm just so grateful and
privileged to have you here as the executive General Manager

(03:19):
of Football at the AFL, pretty much the highest role
that exists in football. You are a true example. I mean,
CZA is all about pathways and how you don't necessarily
need to know where you're going to end up when
you're younger, and we talk a lot about people who
end up in jobs that didn't exist when they were younger.
But what's amazing about your stories. Your job did exist,

(03:39):
it just didn't exist for women. So it's amazing to
sit across from you now and for one of our
beautiful co hosts, and to have had a career in
football because things have changed since you first went through.
But yeah, thank you so much for everything you've done
and everything you continue to do. I'm so excited to
have you.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Thank you. That's quite the introduction. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
I mean, we will have done a bio before this also,
which is so incredibly impressive. And before I looked you
up on Wikipedia doing some research, I thought I'd be
sitting across from a fifty year old woman with all
the things you've achieved. I'm like, we are the same age.
This is so embarrassing you well, it's accomplish.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Sure, relative you've achieved an unbelievable amount too, And I
listening and I quite enjoy it. I do you really
do well.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I love that we have that in common, our sort
of legal background growing up in the nineties, the fact
that our first phones were not here thirty three tens. Like,
there's a lot of ground that we have to cover here.
And I do want to get to you know, your
incredible role and how trailblazing that is, and I imagine
you know the many challenges you've had to face to
get there.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
But I love to start.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Back at the very beginning and trace through all the
chapters that came before the one people often meet you
in now it looks like it was an overnight success.
It never is. And I like to go back through
all the things you thought you would be, all the
chapters that came earlier, and I think, yeah, showing how
the dots connect, even if you don't know it at
the time. So take us back to Chanside Park. I
didn't realize actually that you had a Greek background and

(05:09):
that Caine comes from your Irish side. Tell us about childhood,
what did you think you'd be. I definitely don't think
it was GM at thefl.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
I don't think so. You're right. Both my parents and
families are bought from overseas, so a Greek background and
Irish background. It's a very loud, robust family. So whatever
I was, whatever I was going to do, was going
to be something that enabled me to be robust as well.
But growing up in Chanside Park football was a very

(05:38):
big part of my life. I don't think I bought
for a very long time that it would be a career,
and we can get into that, but I don't know.
I was older sister one younger brother. I liked rules,
I like following rules. I liked telling him what to do.
I don't Finally that weren't afraid of feedback. So maybe

(05:59):
the legal career was not a happy accident. It was
something that I was destined to do and maybe, yeah,
combining that skill set with my love of foot is
now seen me get this job. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, I loved looking back at how strong that football
connection has been, even if it wasn't necessarily for a career.
But you know, you played oz kick when you were younger.
I think you had to get your mum to write
a letter to let you not do netball. That's right, AF.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
So that probably is another sign something there.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
From very you weren't taking no.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
No, I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
I wasn't And so when you were, you know, starting
to think. I think we look back at like our
first jobs or your first passions. What did you think
that you wanted to be. Was it like astronaut or
vallerina or was it football or did you think?

Speaker 1 (06:49):
I'll tell you what my first job was fourteen and
nine months.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
I was gonna say it wasn't fourteen and nine moths.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Of course it was, but I've never told anyone this,
so you'll love this answer. My very first job was
data entry at a dating agency. No where I can't
even remember, but it was on Victoria Parade. It wasn't
far from here, and we used to enter the data

(07:14):
from people's profiles and match them. So I did that
for about two years. It was through one of my
friends at school and we were all just doing data entry,
but the content was unbelievable. So I was playing football
at the same time and entering dating profiles information for
dating profiles was a fifteen year old and.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
You were doing the matches. Like, imagine if they knew
on the other end there was this fifteen year old.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
I think someone checked it. I think we had to
go so well before online dating.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
So, oh, my goodness, that's not.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
What I thought I would do, what I thought my
career would turn into. But yeah, I had all usual
jobs through my teenageys school. I did work experience at
the Supreme Court when I was in high school and
I loved it. So that was always my path from
the back end of high school into university, and I
never thought I would do anything else. I really loved it.

(08:10):
It was footy was probably the only thing that would
get me to jump across to something else.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Wow, and you did play I think for quite a while.
Did you know at the time, I think I listened
to you on another podcast that you didn't think it
wasn't normal to not be able to have a career,
Like at the time, you just kind of accepted that
this was going to be my hobby and I'd have
to find something else to do. And it's beautiful that
now women don't have to or young girls don't have

(08:35):
to sort of face that ceiling. But if you think
back to that time, was there a moment where you said,
I'd love to do that, but I can't. I've got
to do something else.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
I think what I refer to there is you finished
playing football with the boys at twelve, and there was
no option. So at the time I was too young,
and I think you sort of there's nothing that you
could have aspired to beyond that, so you didn't even
think about it, And that feels a shame, probably quite
important in my path and my journey to reflect back on.

(09:05):
But there was no option, so you just you picked
basketball or apple or changed sports or you know, unfortunately
didn't don't play sport for a lot of young girls.
So I think being able now to reflect back on
young boys and girls who know no different is the
most unbelievable part of my job. But yeah, couldn't play.
Stopped playing. And then I often tell a story about

(09:27):
seeing women training, seenior women training when I was a
teenager in high school, just next to the children's hospital,
and I can remember it because it's the first time
I saw women that weren't young girls actually playing.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Oh my gosh, And it just goes to show I
think that visibility, Like if you can't see someone else
doing it and imagine yourself in those shoes, you can't
conceive of yourself having that career. So that moment I've
heard you speak about it on another podcast, that you
kind of got out your phone and called your mum
and were like, girls are playing football, Like yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
How I knew about Snake, And I was glad to
call my mum on the on the tram home. That's it,
that's why you would be friends.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
I was like, Snake was an era in itself. When
you speak to someone it was about Snake, you like,
we're going to get along. We were alive at that time.
So then kind of shifting to your focus, you know,
towards the future. I think one of the not sad
because it often it sort of lays foundations for things
later on. But one of the difficult things I think

(10:26):
that happens in high school is we do like I
was a ballerina in my first iteration of me, and
you do kind of start to stop making decisions based
on what you love and what you're good at and
what lights you up, and start to think about what's successful,
what's going to be a respectable career and what should
I do? You kind of they can marry out, but

(10:47):
I don't think we often know that at that stage
of our lives. So when you did start to think
about law, what do you think guided you into that?
Was it because it was sensible? I think your mum
was a lawyer. Were you influenced by that or was
it just that I can't play footy, I've got to
do something else.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, So interestingly on my mum, she was an academic
and after she helped me proof free to signments and
get through my degree, she went back to UNI in
her fifties and became my life.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
So you started it.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, Oh, that's amazing her following in my footsteps. Maybe
I was really interested in studying law. I was really
interested in the profession. I'm not sure. At the time,
as a teenager, I was thinking about what's the long
term career trajectory, but obviously it was a good one.
So I knew that it was something that if I
could get into and I could achieve through the back

(11:37):
end of high school and at UNI, that it would
set me up for what you would pop in the
successful career or the possibility to have a successful career
at the time, having no comprehension of the skills that
you learn, and you would know this through a law
degree and even through practicing for a couple of years
that help you in so many other ways. And the

(11:58):
problem solving and the advocacy and calmness and the sort
of the clinical approach sometimes to issues now is something
you know everyone should do it if they could, or
because you learned so much. But I really enjoyed practicing.
I enjoyed it as a career and like I said before,
I probably would still be doing it if it wasn't
for this sport. So yeah, I'm not sure it had

(12:21):
some sense of justice or something happening as a teenager.
And I don't know if it was older sister syndrome
or what. Yeah, I all must be right in this way.
I think it was all heading in one direction.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Did you face and before we come to sort of
the big pivot, did you have any family influence over
that kind of decision making at the time, Because I
know a lot of people who grow up with families
like as first generation have sort of this sense of
I need to make the most of my time here
or get swayed or feel like you know, you want

(12:54):
about your parents fright, like was there any influence of
your family on what you were going to do or
were they very support.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
They're very supportive. In fact, I can remember as a teenager,
I remember asking my mum what subjects I should do
in year twelve and she said, I can't tell you.
You have to decide, and I remember being upset. I
remember the conversation and saying, why can't you just tell
me that it's up to you? Do you make my decisions?
So you have to decide And so that again, at

(13:20):
the time, you don't know sort of what that kind
of guidance does or how it helps you, but it
does help you. My parents would let us do anything.
So we had drum kits, we had bass guitars, we
had footballs, basketballs, We did every random activity you could
think of, sometimes for a short time, sometimes for a
long time. But you know, they would drive us around,

(13:40):
drop us off, said yes to everything. So I'm very
grateful for that because I think it also in the
back of your mind, you always think that you can
because you've never been told no or no one sort
of stopped you. And I think I could do anything,
and they would be proud. So I'm lucky.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
I love that my family were very much the same
and we've had a hobby of all kinds and so
much equipment and so much commitment to them driving us around.
And now I'm like, oh, I've got to pay that
forward as a parent. Oh my goodness. But I think
it does really influence how you perceive yourself and how
you perceive trying new things, and your risk tolerance is
higher because you've tried everything. You know, you've been used

(14:17):
to sort of trying things and maybe not everything sticks,
and it's okay to kind of bounce around.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
It's a privilege too. You have to not forget that,
and we talk about it a lot from community football.
People are on their own journey and it's not easy
for everyone. So whatever we can do to create a
straight line a pathway for people just to play footy
is what we should try and aspire to because we
know that off the field, so to speak, is not

(14:42):
always as easy.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
And I love that the common thread in your career
seems to have been that you've been incredibly passionate about
the game and about every aspect of it, but that
it's always been about more than football. It's been very
much about the impact you can make and the change
you can make in people's lives off the field as well,
which we'll get too, But first let's just touch on
the legal career, because I didn't know that you'd started

(15:04):
out as a layern and I did a bit more research,
and I love that you were also someone who wasn't
a corporate refugee because you hated it. I think a
lot of ex lawyers the narrative is it was oppressive.
I didn't like it. I was making other people money.
You know, there's so many narratives that come out of
ex lawyers. And I also actually quite enjoyed practicing. I
think there were lots of parts of it that were

(15:27):
really enjoyable, and you were doing incredibly impactful work that started,
I think in your work experience with Victoria Legal Aid.
So talk us through working on a commission and what
it was like to feel like you'd found something that
you really did like, but then be head hunted and
pulled in a different direction without looking for it. I
think that's quite unusual.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yeah, I mean I did love it. I felt passionate
about the work that we were doing. I started at
a firm called Wala Legal when I was in a
UNI as a paralegal and interned there throughout and then
ended up practicing there for a couple of years, and
that coincided with the Royal Commission, which was incredibly difficult
and for so many people, such a harrowing time. I

(16:10):
say that I loved it. I didn't love the stories
I was listening to. I didn't love the issues we
were dealing with. I didn't love that people had had
these lived experiences. But I loved that we could help them,
or that they felt heard, or that they had advocacy.
They could be anonymous to receive that help and support,
and I think that was one of the most important
parts of the Commission, that even though the subject matter

(16:32):
was horrific and horrendous, it was really important for people.
And sometimes people were telling you stories that they'd never
told anyone. And so I think being young and being
in that environment taught me so much and so much
more than I realized at the time. But the firm
that I was working for was unbelievable, and I just

(16:52):
I had so much responsibility. But I think we really
valued that responsibility because it was people's lives I would
still be doing it if it wasn't, as you said,
a complete curve ball at the back end of the
Royal Commission, and certainly not something that I thought I
would be changing into immediately post that inquiry.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, I think it's reassuring for anyone who is in
law or aiming for law that you know, you do
hear a lot of stories of people who don't enjoy it,
but you can make incredibly meaningful, enjoyable careers in law.
You do not have to leave everyone. And that is
never what I'm trying to say, just because it turned
out for us. Obviously, it's not always something you have

(17:36):
to walk away from. At the time, did you face
any I think you were very very young to be
working on something so heavy and with such serious consequences,
And by contrast, in commercial law, I had a lot
more leeway to learn and not feel like, you know,
if I made a mistake, that it was going to
have such serious consequences. In that context, the term imposter

(18:00):
syndrome more self doubt is quite different. I think for you,
did you feel that when you first went into the
industry and were given so much responsibility on something so
serious so quickly and how did you cope with that
feeling of I'm really making a difference in people's lives.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, I mean yes and no. Our principalslicitor was unbelievable,
and she led all of us and ultimately was responsible
for what was happening and representing our clients. But sometimes
you would think, goodness, this is heavy and this is hard.
But then very quickly would realize that whatever approach I
was taking, or whatever my natural instinct was in say

(18:37):
an interview or meeting with a client, was working. And
I noticed that there felt a sense of calm and safety,
and that was representative of the firm, not just me.
But I started to realize that when people are delivering
really emotional, difficult, stressful, hard information, how you are and
how you receive it is probably the most important thing.

(19:00):
And it's not a comparison now, but we also deal
with very stressful, very difficult, very high pressured situations, just
completely different topic. And so, to be honest, I'm not
sure I was old enough to work through im imposter syndrome.
That probably comes a little bit later you aren't even
aware I'm enough of it, But I remember reflecting on
the fact that the way you are and the way

(19:21):
you receive information, and almost if you can sort of
click into gear when someone is highly distressed, you can
navigate situations in a much better way and you can
sort of put them at ease much more quickly. And
I think it was the style that I realized worked
with the support of all of our lawyers and everybody
else who worked on the cases themselves.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, which has obviously set you in very good stead
for every chapter that came back. In fact, so the
big sliding doors moment. I often you will be intoviewing
a guest and they have been sort of trying to
generate a change or generate a pivot in their life.
They're looking for some kind of big change, but sometimes
they fall in your lap. And I think part of
it is positioning yourself well to always be open to

(20:05):
the right opportunities. But also there's having a you know,
I love the word that you said. I think it
was in League Leaders about professionalizing your hobby, And that's
something that comes up a lot on this show because
it works for some people. Some people it doesn't. They
want their passion to stay their hobby so that it
doesn't have deliverables and expectations and all that kind of thing.

(20:25):
For you, it came out of being headhunted. Now that
is extraordinary. You were in an industry that wasn't related
to football, but you've been playing football, you'd coach, like,
how did that all come about? Most of us don't
even know that football administrators exist, but of course they
do well.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
I certainly didn't at the time.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
I mean, obviously someone has to run the show, but
you just don't think about that.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
I was playing footy at Melbourne UNI and coaching at
Melbourne UNI. We had formed a partnership the women on
the committee before me and our era, if you like,
had formed a really great relationship with Northmanelburn Football Club.
And there's a story that doctor sonyah Hood, who's now
the president of the club, shares around lots of different

(21:07):
clubs coming to the North Melbourne Footy Club asking to
train on the oval Adam Street's amazing.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
You know, we don't have a lot of time there.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, we don't have enough ovals and would just ask
for access and our club was the first club to
ask for access. But also say that the players and
the women, most of whom were at UNI or studying
or professionals in their own right would volunteer at the huddle,
which was not his North Melbourne's community, which is unbelievably
impactful and so Sonya reflects on that often to say,

(21:37):
it's the first group of people that said we can
help you and if you can help us. So we
were training there. What coincided with that period of time
was the AFL announcing the AFL W competition and in
twenty sixteen, I think people thought it would be twenty twenty,
it would start in twenty twenty, and in twenty sixteen
Gil announced it for the following year. Was very quick.

(21:59):
It's a very girl thing to do, but it was
the best thing. It was the best thing we now
ever did. And so I got to know the footy
club in their bid for a license and was meeting
with their CEO to help put together the application from
the perspective of the women's club that were most closely
aligned to North and we had a couple of meetings

(22:20):
where we were racking our brains trying to work out
who we would approach to run the program. And I'm
trying to think of people and one of my very
good friends who was on the committee and working in
the huddle at the time, so it was connected to
these conversations said what about you do it nice? It
just did never occurred to me, and she also asked

(22:44):
that question of the CEO. And then fast forward three
months and I wasn't a lawyer anymore and I was
walking into a footy club and thought, what have I done?
I don't know what's happened here. That's also fast, yeah,
really quick, really really quick, and it was great. It's
the best thing I ever did. But at the time
was I think I wore a blazer on my first

(23:04):
day and realized no one wears and they wear shorts
and T shirts that are commonly branded. But yeah, it
was a very big adjustment.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, oh my gosh. Well that's I think another thing
that I'd love to to sort of break down a
little bit, and that's the decision making process. It's so
overwhelmingly hard to make decisions that a lot of the
time in life things aren't mutually exclusive. You can go
along doing both for as life. And that's my attitude
is be a yes person. Just say yes to all

(23:36):
of it, and then you never have to make a decision.
It's a great method until inevitably one has to be
full time and one you know you can't keep doing
both when you love both and you want to say
yes to both, that's when it gets really hard. It's
easy if you want to leave Lauren jump, but if
you don't, necessarily you are walking away from something that
you've spent a lot of time building reputation and a
skill set and a life path in your mind. How

(24:00):
did you decide? Was it like making pros and cons list?
Was a consulting family and friends? Was it I do
like a future regret management kind of thing. What will
myself in fifty years regret or be glad about? What's
the once in a lifetime opportunity? Did you think that
far into it? I did, Yeah, I wish it like
an instinct.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
I don't even do that now, so I should I
should probably think feather ahead. No, I'm an instinct operator,
and I often think you can only make the best
decision that you can make at the time, and so
when you reflect on decisions, it's usually because you have
either more time or well, you do have more time,
but usually it's because you have more information. And so
I try not to be harder myself for others because

(24:43):
you can only you would make a better decision if
you had that information, but you didn't, and so I
try not to reflect too much backwards. You know, obviously
you trying to get better. It felt easy at the time.
It felt easy. I'd played footy with the boys. I
couldn't play than I could play. I'd played for a
couple of years. I was on the committee. It was

(25:04):
what I did for fun. I looked forward to it.
I would leave work and look forward to going to
footy training, look forward to go going to games on
the weekend. It didn't feel like a chore. And so
when there was an opportunity to do that and get
paid for it, I thought, well, this feels easy. All
this feels like an easy decision. But it was daunting
just from the perspective of no one understood what the

(25:26):
job was. It's really easy, and you would know this.
It's really easy to meet people and say I'm a lawyer.
It's really easy, and they don't even really need to
know what area or and you know how broad being
a lawyer is, but it's really easy. It's really hard
to say I work at Northmaburn Football Club. We didn't
get an AFLW license. That's why I came to the club.
So now I look after academies. No, it's not in

(25:47):
the girls. It's in the boys. Now I'm in Tasmine.
It's really you need.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
A PowerPoint on like at USB to be like here,
here's story.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
That's right. And so yes, I just talked to the
players every day. Yes, I talked to the coaches. People
don't it didn't understand it the time. So easy decision.
A little bit hard to navigate early doors when we
didn't get a license, but it's the best thing that
happened to us because we had more time to look
and watch and analyze and do it better the next
time when we finally did. So. Yeah, very interesting time.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
I mean I can't imagine going from working on a
royal commission and then just three months later just walking
in to a job in football, right, yeah, in a
blazer walking into a gym and a blazer.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Day what is my job? Was in a T shirt?
Very quickly shorts.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Oh my goodness. So I think were you like mid
twenties around this time, twenty six and that's young as well,
Oh my goodness. Okay, so this is where a lot
of people I think would then kind of have that
self doubt imposter syndrome thing really hit hard. You've changed industries,
you haven't necessarily gone You've gone to UNI for your
law degree. I think it's very straightforward how you become

(27:01):
a lawyer, how you become a job that no one
knows what that means is not a straightforward and the
skill set that you need when you don't know what
the job is is even more complex. When you arrived
and sort of was, you know, brand new to this
whole environment, how did you feel any self doubt? Firstly,
how did you cope with like the quick upskilling? What

(27:22):
was your did you have mentors? I think that's a
big change leaving the law as you go from having
a senior associate a partner, like there's such a clear
hierarchy of knowledge. And then in most industries outside of
it is not a structured necessarily, especially not when you're
like president. You know you're very senior from the beginning.
How did you navigate it?

Speaker 1 (27:42):
I remember the first week I said to my manager
in my old job, we would have quite regular supervision.
Was a regular part of your week? And I said,
so can we meet twice a week, and I remember
him just looking at me saying, probably not. We're probably
not doing that here. That's a no. But the big

(28:02):
things that exist in a footy club that I wish
every organization in the world adopted. It's a team, so
you're part of it. You are literally part of a team,
and everyone is trying to work together to achieve the
same thing, which is win, have a good culture, run
a good program, create good people. And so straight away
we're moving into an environment, a team environment. You feel

(28:24):
supported regardless of your job. At that point, I'm now
wearing all the same colors as them in the uniform.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
You'd grown into the ditch. Nice. But that's step one
in dropping the MPOs.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
The other superpower that I see our players have is
their ability to give and receive feedback. And it is
completely understated because I don't know of any other industry
in the world that every single day, every minute of
the day, every meeting, every clip, every minute of a
game is how do we do this better? How do
we get better, how do we win? How do we

(28:58):
overcome this adversity? And so it was a really safe
place to not really know what you were doing, because
they wanted you to succeed, they being the club. More broadly,
they wanted me to succeed. Once you're in, you're part
of the team. And the environment was one that I
was used to, which was robust feedback that never ends,

(29:20):
which is my family in a professional capacity. So I
say to players now all the time, when you're going
for job interviews or you're meeting with people after football,
that is the one thing, outside of being the most
punctual organized people on the planet, you have a superpower
that other people would love to have, or love in

(29:41):
their business, or love in their environment. So I could
work it out, and I quickly realized too, that the
approach is really important. It's a high pressure situation with
a lot of scrutiny, So being calm and trying to
be pragmatic and receiving that pressure and sort of providing
a calm answer or being as thoughtful as I could worked.

(30:03):
And it was the same kind of environment, just really
different subject matter.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, Oh my gosh, I love that. The transition was
really really positive.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
It was really good.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Any breakdowns along the way or probably.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
There were so many. There were so many good times.
We had a lot of change and a lot of
hard times at North Melbourne. I learned a lot from
that too, a lot of change in leadership, and that's
often what people reflect on us. Really hard moments. We
had hard off field moments, We had hard people moments.
But you just learn from them and try to take
what you can and it helps you know. When I

(30:37):
got to the AFL, it wasn't a short time later.
We had a leadership change, and I watched some people
react in a particular way because it creates uncertainty, and
rightly or wrongly, I was used to it North Melbourne,
and so you learn a set of skills that you
wouldn't otherwise learn unless you lived it. Footy clubs are
an unbelievable place. They're so good, they're so much fun,

(31:00):
are so supportive, and they all want to do the
same thing. They want to win, and it's an amazing
thing to experience and be part of.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Oh my gosh, well, how special to have made a
move into something that you've loved for so long and
that didn't seem like it was on the cards to
be part of your future. To then have just jumped back,
sort of done this full circle, backhead first into it.
And I love that when you were born. I think
it was you were born across the road from the
mcg and you were held up to the window and said, like,
we hear something about Collingwood winning, but.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Collin would win a premiership here in three months.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, and then old yeah yeah, And then to see
you then sort of now head of the football in
the country, you know, is just really special and extraordinary.
But as you mentioned, like footy clubs are such an
exciting place to be, but where or used to watching
them from the outside. We kind of come to the
game at the end of the process of all the

(31:52):
things that have happened pre season, like in the off season,
and then you know, making it to actually game round
one to sort of get to the finale. Can you
talk us through the roles that you had from is
it Muggers? Is that what they call it?

Speaker 1 (32:07):
You can call it that. That's the cool name? Is
that the call? Is that the core name Melbourn Girls
Aussie Rules squad.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Oh, is that where I can start?

Speaker 1 (32:15):
So Muggers?

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, So from Muggers andrel Krune that I use.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
That she will too and Muggers run very good.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
And then getting the AFLW license and then sort of
being part of that really foundational for years of the
AFLW and then moving into into the AFL like talk
us through your roles and what they were as you
kind of change because we don't know. Yeah people, I
think that same visibility thing. Other people won't know they
could have this job in the future if they don't

(32:46):
know what it is.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah. So North Melbourne I started in the boys academy space.
We'd missed a license for the AFIW competition, but we
I still looked after women's footy and that was the
relationship with the Muggers malwourn UNI, and then relatively quickly
moved into a football operations role, which a lot of
people aspire to do and people, particularly in the sports

(33:09):
administration stream which I wasn't as familiar with, aspire to
do those jobs. And they're really really hard jobs and
really good jobs. So football operations for the men's and
then that just started to expand through my time at
North Melbourne, so we went standalone in our state league program.
In the men's we'd had the relationship with Melbourne UNI,

(33:30):
so I got experience setting up programs and clubs and
teams for the first time. We then did the same
with AFLW and that was a really enjoyable experience. We
went a bit wild recruiting players and got players from
everywhere and it was a lot of fun. But I
learned a lot of things. Being able to work in
the men's program as we were setting up these other
programs helped, and I probably realized that the unlock to

(33:54):
doing something like afiw WOW was making sure the boys
were integrated and on board and understanding of the importance.
So we had players involved in our list recruiting, list
management and acquisition of players, which was really cool. It
was really really good, and they got very competitive when
we challenged them to go and get the best players

(34:15):
from other teams.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
It's like fantasy football, but like you get to real life.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Were going to play. We were in contact just a
few months ago when the girls played in their grand final.
One of the boys is still at the club, but
the rest of them moved on to different clubs or
different programs or different careers, but we stayed connected over
building that team. So yeah, football operations at the back
end of North Melbourne. It moved into more broader club strategy,
which I really enjoyed and exposed me to a whole

(34:42):
heap of other things across the consumer, commercial, membership, media realms,
but always had a big interest in football, so looked
at the strategy around list management and recruiting and acquisition
of players and how do you build a team that
can win. At that time in the Boys, we needed
to rebuild and at the time in the Girls we
were trying to win one. So we're in really different phases.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, and you were doing both, just doing both all
at the same time.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah, we're redeveloping the facility. So I got a lot
of really great opportunities to get experiences in all different
parts of running a footy club, and then joined the
AFL in twenty twenty one, where that sort of all
came together from a competition management perspective.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, Oh my gosh, So how did that shift happen?
Because I think one of the things that you mentioned
in one of the podcasts was that there's often a
negative connotation around switching from AFLW to men like women's
to men's or men's to women's, and that you said
it as a really positive thing. But was that a
shift you were looking at. Was it something that you

(35:49):
like in your growth at the level of your career,
you wanted to move to a new position. How did
the change happen?

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I was at North. The CEO at the time said,
as a people leader, as a manager, you should always
buyer to make yourself redundant, so you should always push
your staff. And then I might have done a pretty
good job of that because I didn't really know what
my job was going to be and made it up.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, I was ready.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
I even have handed over all of these things and
now I don't really know what I'm supposed to do.
But it was a good thing because we were able
to develop our young staff. I think the shift to
the AFL was twofold. I was feeling like I could
contribute more to the broader competition. And I've had a
pretty good experience at North for nearly seven years, learning

(36:34):
about how the programs run and how to set them
up and so on. But I was also at the
time the AFL were running women's leadership program called JENW
and it was for a small group of women in
the industry, all parts of the industry. But a part
of that program was that you were assigned a sponsor,

(36:54):
so not a mentor, but a sponsor. Senior males and
females in the industry, and it was quite coordinated and organized,
so your relationship with your sponsor was mapped out and
the questions that you would talk about in your meetings
were prepared. And over the year I found that being
in an environment like that helps extract so much more

(37:15):
advice and good conversation than just sort of the networking
coffee fee. Yeah, and so my sponsor was Andrew Dillon,
So it's probably not a surprise now he's been you know,
I've been in his team the whole time I've been
at the AFL, but that transition was made much easier
moving into his team when he looked after football.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
And I think that's a great point as well, that
the networking coffee is something that I'm a big proponent of.
It can lead you to relationships you don't even need
to go into it thinking that you know what you
want to get out of it. I think always networking
before you need it is a really it will stand
you in good stead because you know, the more contacts
you have, the better place you are, I think to
achieve whatever you want to. But having conversations that are

(37:57):
structured and with particular people that have planned you know,
you do get a lot more out of it. And
also there are pivotal people at every junction along your career.
I think that guide you towards the next thing that
you're going to do. What would you say to anyone
from the outside who wants to kind of follow in
your footsteps about positioning themselves to kind of end up?

(38:19):
You've gone from being outside of football altogether to like
the top role in the whole league. How did you
position yourself? Was it networking coffees outside of the mentors
that you had inside the league? Was it people outside
of football?

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Like?

Speaker 2 (38:33):
How were you constantly kind of working yourself towards this
and were you working yourself towards it? Did you sort
of want that top position or was it just kept coming?
These opportunities just kept presenting themselves.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Obviously was thoughtful around the path that I would take,
but probably the opportunities kept coming, And so I reflect
on why did that happen? Or why did the opportunities
keep coming? It's not a role I didn't aspire to.
It's just that I didn't think it would be possible
and the time frame or available. I think you to

(39:05):
go back a step, if you know working in our industry.
There are unbelievable people with decades and decades and decades
of experience, and the most common story if you speak
to someone in a football department, they all start at
community football. Everyone has a community club. Everyone has had
some experience with state leagues, everyone has had some experience
with clubland. And that's slow and hard, and that's the

(39:28):
part that I think can be glossed over. And people
sort of coming in in leadership positions are certainly possible,
and we're always looking at ways we can bring people
from outside the industry in for new ideas. I've done
a lot of work. More than fifty percent of our
obsenior leaders are women now in our industry, and it's
something that you know. It's up from sixteen percent in
twenty eighteen. It's a huge jump. That's hush so AFIW

(39:52):
has done unbelievable things for our industry, for women in
our industry. But I think you still have to do
the hard yards. And it helps you because do you
understand at the end of the road, how it's all connected.
We're in the really fortunate position to look after everything
from OZ kick. The first time you know a young
child picks up the footy and plays. I was kick

(40:12):
all the way through to you can be Andrew Dillon
and the CEO of the AFL and where responsible for
all of it. And I think that's also a privilege
and something that we take seriously. But I sort of
focused on just do your job really well, the job
that you have, what's right in front of you. And
we used to say it when we're volunteering on the
committee at Melbourne UNI, but do your job one hundred percent,

(40:34):
you know, well before you start looking at other things
or or trying to get involved in other stuff for
changing jobs. And I've taken that approach. I've tried to
think differently about things, tried to bring a different lens,
and over the journey in you know, nearly a decade now,
it's worked and people really relelnded to it and people

(40:55):
who have found that alternate perspective helpful. So we last
on this. But my team often talk about I think
good leadership is that you're consistent and that you are
predictable in the way that you respond behave think But
I think ideas should be unpredictable, so you should know

(41:16):
lots about lots of different things. You should throw in
different ideas about different sports. You should challenge conversations with ideas,
and have a predictability in the way that you behave
and that you respond and your approach and that you
treat people, but be totally unpredictable with ideas and picture thinking.
And yeah, so yeah, I think style has worked for me.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
I think that's so interesting because often most of us
struggle with quite quite a bit. Is that tension between
ambition for more while also sort of still performing in
where you are, and people have a lot of trouble
accepting well I do anyway, is sometimes I'm really enjoying

(42:01):
where I am, but I also I want to be better,
and like you're always striving for more and what's the
next thing? And our heads spend a lot of time
like projecting into the future. But then I think that's
really good advice is also just the job that you're in,
Like do it one hundred percent and learn everything you
can in it, and you don't always need to be
like what's next, what's next? And we've become so inst

(42:21):
gratuity focused that I think we all want to get
to the end really quickly. But those hard yards are
where you learned, you've done every role in the chain
that you now coordinate, and that I'm sure gives you
an insight that you wouldn't have had if you kind
of just come in that's right and gone.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Straight to the top. That's right.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
And there's something to be said for time, like laying
down the time, just.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Being content and you know, for a while then football
operations was my job, and it was getting the players
from A to B and communicating with them. And it
can feel relatively straightforward, but find the best most efficient
way you can do it. Get information to people as
quickly as you can. So just challenge yourself, even within
the job that you're doing, to do it as well

(43:02):
as you possibly can. Because people take notice. Yeah I do.
I take notice of team members who do that.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yeah. Absolutely. So, speaking of taking notice from a workplace perspective,
I think there's a lot of conversation, particularly for women,
around asking for things when you do want the promotion,
or you do want to pay rise, or you do
feel like you've reached one hundred percent or one hundred
and ten percent or a hundred fifty percent of what
you're doing, and then it isn't getting noticed or you
aren't sort of getting propelled towards where you might want

(43:28):
to go. And you've faced an extra layer of being
not just a woman in an industry where when you
were coming up in the nineties there were no females
pretty much in the AFL, and being a young female
adds a whole nother layer to the grounds for skepticism
or for criticism, or for people just not believing that
you can do it. What's your advice to other women

(43:51):
in football, but then other women in any industry, and
anyone in an industry where they're going into something where
there's a chance that you know, they'll face obstacles, doubt,
or maybe even people actively trying to not support you
to get there.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, it's a really good question. I get asked this
a lot. And sometimes you have to put the blinkers on,
is what I'll say. And sometimes you have to block
out too much noise. But if you reflect on the
fact that you don't often hire yourself, so someone else
has put you in a position, or other people have
decided that you are capable, and you should remember that.

(44:29):
And I think that's often glossed over that you get
a position, but you have to someone had to hire
you to get the position. Yeah, unless're running your own business.
So take comfort in people who would seemingly have more
senior roles than you or with different levels of responsibility,
have backed you in. And don't forget that because that's
ultimately why you're there, because they think you can do it. Yeah,

(44:50):
and they will be responsible for what you do, so
they wouldn't put you there if they didn't think that
you could do it, you'd hope. Yeah. So that but
I think is really important and often forgotten very quickly,
and you go to everyone else and what will everyone
else think? And don't you know, think too much about
the people who who got you there to begin with.
I think you can only do what you can do,

(45:12):
and I think I love working with our clubs, and
I love it because they know I've done it and
they know that I've worked in pretty tricky club environments.
You know, take programs that are successful, programs that are
unsuccessful on the field, I mean, and sort of have
the experience of what it's like to, you know, have
the grind of a footy program that's not winning. So

(45:33):
I don't day to day with all of the people
that I talk to, feel that and you know, we
navigate issues as a team, and we work together and
we challenge each other, and you can pretty quickly forget
what your gender is or your age. The only other
thing I'll say to it is I sit in a
lot of meetings where I'm the demographic that we're trying

(45:53):
that we're talking about. And so I sit in a
lot of meetings around our comms and our messaging, and
you know, our fans and a lot of focuses on
young fans, and you know, we are appealing to everyone,
and in particular, are we appealing to the next generation,
the next generation that have children, the next generation that

(46:14):
don't that the kids themselves, And so don't forget that
being young and being in young relative terms and being
in positions of power is somewhat of a superpower.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
I was going to say it, it's a superpower.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
So, and I think having different perspectives gender, you know,
inclusive representation, age, you make better decisions. And I think
businesses know that now, organizations know that. And our game
is the national game for the entire country. And the
entire country is made up of lots of different people
from lots of different places who identify all differently. So

(46:49):
I think it helps us as a team from an
AFL perspective, and I think for anyone second guessing themselves.
Just think about the stuff you're good at. That is
one thing I learned at the footy club. Think about
what your superpowers are, and think about what you're good
at and what you bring to the team, and don't
worry about the ten things that you can't do because
other people can do those instead.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Oh that's such a good one. When you first were appointed,
were you met with any skepticism or were there any
reactions that surprised you or or even actually any kind
of at any stage along the way, was there anyone
who's like, this is a young woman in a very
male dominated industry. Did you ever find that or feel
that or has it not sort of been your experience.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
I'd certainly come up. But you know, I've done interviews
where people will say you're female and you're young, and
I'm thinking, I literally wrote down your female and as
a young female, did you underlie it? It's in literally capitalist,
But I just take it as it's interesting to people.
It's interesting to people that you might be different to

(47:53):
what they expect, or you might be different to the
person before you, or you might be different to the
person after you, or whatever it is, but don't take
offense to it. I think great, there's lots of young
females now that look at it and think, wow, I
could do that too, or in my chosen career, maybe
I don't have to wait ten years, or maybe I
can bring a different perspective to this job or this organization,

(48:14):
and maybe we can just think differently about the benefit
of having people who are different, which we certainly do
every single day at the AFL. So yeah, some resistant,
some people a little bit, you know, asking questions, but
mostly it comes from a place of curiosity. Yeah, and
they don't. They just want to know how it all happened.
Then they very quickly want to talk about holding the

(48:35):
ball and score review and all the fun stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
I think it is because we do make assumptions because
it's there's been such rapid change, which is so positive.
But I think because we all remember a time when
you weren't allowed to play past twelve, that that same
woman in just one ten year block could now be
at the top. I think there's this presumption that you're
in this stuffy boardrooms with old man and that it's

(49:00):
amazing that it hasn't been that way and that there
has been such rapid change, which is yeah, really really exciting.
But if you aren't doing that in like stuff boardrooms,
what are you doing? What is the day to day?
I can imagine it's very high pressure being so senior.
Do you get downtime? Like do you have really long hours?
Are you in an office? Like what's the kind of

(49:21):
day to day of running the AFL.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
We have a lot of fun, Like it helps when
you've got Joel Salwood and Aaron Phillips working in our
football department, So they had a footy, they'd probably be
kicking it to each other in the hallway. It is
a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Do you have playing meetings?

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Like do you suld't? We've got enough past players that
could help us. We actually had a AFL nine's competition
at work, and I think the football department had an
unfair advantage because we have three hundred gamers and you know,
best and fairest winners and all Australians and anyway, we
have a lot of fun. My week looks different every week.

(49:54):
I try to spend as much time as I can
out at the clubs. I try to meet with as
many people as I can and from the clubs. We
obviously have all of the usual executive meetings and all
of the stuff that happens in the office, but we
also go to the footy a lot. That's worked too,
even though it doesn't feel like it, but I think
making sure throughout the whole week we're thinking about how
we can work with our clubs as best as possible,

(50:17):
but also what do our fans want and how do
we make sure the game is exciting for them. So
we spend a lot of time analyzing the game, the rules,
making sure we umpire the game as best as possible,
and I'm really thinking about everything. Yeah, and we run AFL.
We run AFLW VFL VFLW, which is you know in
the VFL and East Coast Stately competition. We run the

(50:39):
Coats League, so our team will run onenty ten games
this year. So it's a big operation, oh, with a
lot of people. But yeah, it is a lot of
fun and we do get downtime though we're really thoughtful
about making sure people are well and trying to find
times in the week. So a few of us at
work just of learning how to play golf. So that's

(51:02):
fun at the driving range on a Tuesday night, so nice.
It's yeah, you just have to make the most. But
my friends and family for fun go to the footy,
So I go with them and sit in the crowd
with them and enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
It's one of those things about professionalizing your hobby is
I think then the only downside is that you lose
that kind of unincumbent ability to just watch a game
and not be constantly analyzing everything about your job towards
that game. So do you replace that? Like how do
you get your yay?

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Now?

Speaker 2 (51:38):
What football did for you when it was just your hobby.
What are you doing outside of the game? Are you
still data analyzing on dating apps? Or like what are
you doing for my golf? Getting a handicapped out?

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Like what are you doing? Not even close to that?
Four weeks?

Speaker 2 (51:55):
There is time.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
With graduation from our beginner's class last week. I still
love watching footy, and I sometimes I watch it at
home just so I can feel like a fan. Yeah,
because I obviously won't be jumping out of my seat
or cheering unless the umpires do something really well in
a game. So I still try to watch the game

(52:17):
as a fan and enjoy it and forget. I was
at dinner with my friends once and the footy was
on in the background and there was a really good
mark and they panned to the coach's box. The coaches
were smiling and my friends were saying, Oh, that's such
a good such a good mark, and I looked and said, oh,
they don't have their accreditation on. And I thought, that's
what you're looking at, and that I've got to reset here.

(52:39):
I have to. So when I'm there, I'm watching the
way the game's being played. The umpire is what's happening.
But I do try to find joy in it because
I still love it. I still love going to the footy.
I love watching the fans get out of their seat.
And our job is to try and make it as
good as possible for them and get it as right
as possible, and we don't always do that, but we

(52:59):
have to keep trying, ying and the passion that can
very quickly sometimes turn into pressure and scrutinies because they
love it, Yeah, they absolutely love it and it is
their fun, pastime, hobby, connection with their family. And so
if they've got something to say about the umpires. I mean,
so they should, yeah, because it's their game.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Thinking about the accreditation that that's fine.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
My friend said, you've got to reflect on on life.
Take a cold, hard look at yourself. Laura, No, just
enjoy the mark. So okay, okay, So you just got
to catch.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yourself and what's your take then on work life balance,
and particularly as a female. I think there's a whole
different set of considerations around downtime and our cycles and
family and starting families and is the off season when
you go traveling?

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Are you playing golf? Are you reading netflick? Do you
binge TV?

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Like?

Speaker 2 (53:55):
What's your switching off your brain?

Speaker 1 (53:57):
I think my approach, and I know everyone's different. I
know people to be you know, successful or you know,
operate at a level that works for them. Everyone is different.
I think for me what works is living and working
at the same time and trying not to find these
big moments of switching off. And I say that because

(54:18):
if you don't get that moment or something comes up,
my job is unpredictable, Like I can't control what will happen.
I can't control if the lights turn off in the
middle of a game.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
And that did happen in the shower. No, I can't
control that.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
So if you are looking for these big blocks of
time that you you know, hours or days that you're off,
it's not realistic. And then I think often you spend
time being hard on yourself that you didn't get that block.
And so for me, it's just trying to live and
work at the same time. Do it all fit it in,
be available, be as calm and well as you can be,

(54:52):
so when things do kick off, you're in a better
place to deal with them. And then it's you know,
our team we block out, you know, twelve to one
every day, we have lunch at the same time, no
meetings ever. Wow, it's really good because you just reset yourself.
You know that you've got time day to day and
it's cumulative and it just adds up if you don't
look after yourself. So, you know, Fridays we try to

(55:15):
take it as easy as we can do stuff like this.
Be so lucky because the weekend's big and busy, and
we've got the practice matches this weekend, we've got Opening
Round next week, and we'll have football every single weekend
until the second week of December. So wee weekends.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Of course we have.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
To find you know, our work is when everybody else
is having time off. So I just try to find
the moments, try to find time for the driving range. Now,
apparently I'll follow your Yeah, I think I've overstated my
ability already. You need a golf and name too. I've
invited myself to corporate golf days. I can't even hit No,

(55:53):
you can't even hit off the t. So anyway, maybe.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
All post there's a passion project that's right.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
So you just have to make it work. And there
are all the pressures, particularly for women and for me.
I'm acutely aware, particularly of women in our department who
come back from parentally eve and what does that look
like when we have variables in what we do and
things kick off when we can't control them. But they
have things, and so do the guys in our department too.

(56:21):
We've got primary care as different days of the week
and part time staff who look after their kids on
other days. But you just have to be really mindful
because there is no option. You have to pick kids
up from school, drop them off, care for them, and
so we try to make all of that work, you know,
with the lights turning off at the same thing.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
You're managing a lot of things all at once, but
you seem to be just an extraordinary human being. And
if I was to ever not work for myself, I
feel like I would love to work for you. Thank
you so much for your time and for everything you
were doing with the game. It is just I mean,

(57:02):
it's so hard to explain to anyone oversees what AFL
means to Australians. It really it's like been part of
all of our lives. It's part of so many there
are so many formative moments and memories that we all
have in the game, and increasingly women's involvement is just
so exciting where football is going for a bigger participating
nation now and you've really spearheaded so much of that.
So thank you, congratulations and thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Thank you for having me. Well.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
I think you can all see why I am utterly
obsessed with Laura Kane. What an absolute powerhouse but still
so relaxed and fun and articulate and impressive all at once.
Like I said, we couldn't have picked a better guest
for a conversation Around International Women's Day, we should, of
course celebrate what it means to be a woman every day,
but it's always so lovely to have a marked occasion

(57:47):
to have conversations like these. As always, please do share
the episode if you enjoyed it. It means so much
to help spread the neighborhood as far and wide as possible.
In the meantime, I hope you are having an amazing
week and are seizing your ya

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Mhm.