Sarah Grynberg // A life of greatness

I spoke in last week’s introduction about the parasocial relationships we often have with the people we follow and today’s guest is another amazing human I’d been Internet besties with for a while before we met. When we did finally cross paths through a Business Chicks event - the foundation of so many great relationships - it was like the podcast universe of Sarahs folding in on itself and felt like we’d known each other for years. 

Many of you will already recognise Sarah Grynberg’s unmistakably soothing voice and thought provoking questions from her own leading podcast, A Life of Greatness, sparking meaningful conversations around purpose, connection, and what truly makes a life well lived - you can see why we get along so well! But what you may not know is the rich tapestry of life experiences that led her here — from the world of commercial radio to spiritual seeking, personal transformation, and sitting down with some of the world’s most profound thinkers and leaders in their fields - from Deepak Chopra to Matthew McConaughey and beyond!

Sarah has made it her mission to decode greatness — not the flashy, performative kind, but the deep, soul-nourishing greatness that comes from alignment, vulnerability, and courage and has also channeled her wisdom into a fabulous book, Living a Life of Greatness that came out just this year. In today’s episode, we turn the mic back on her and peel back the layers of what lights her up, what challenges she’s faced on her path, and how she navigates the inner world while showing up so fully in the outer one. I hope you enjoy as much as I did. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Because sometimes those dead ends they're just detours into another direction.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
All those tough jobs.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
All of the uncomfortable moments, they led me to where
I am now and made me the better person, the
better worker, the better podcaster.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
You know, so it was all worth it.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
There's always something that leads you to where you need
to be, and it's not instantaneous.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy
are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
one way. So this is a platform to hear and
explore the stories of those who found lives They adore,
the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day

(00:46):
will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm
Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah, a lawyer turned
fuentrepreneur whos wapped the suits and heels to co found
matcha Maiden and matcha Milk Bar. D is a series
of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring
the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. Hello,

(01:11):
Lovely neighborhood. I spoke in last week's introduction about the
parasocial relationships we often have with the people that we follow,
and today's guest is another amazing human I've been Internet
bestI is with for a while before we met. When
we did finally cross paths through a Business Chicks event,
the foundation of so many great relationships, it was like
the podcast universe of Sarah's folding in on itself and

(01:33):
felt like we'd known each other for years. Many of
you will already recognize Sarah Grimberg's unmistakably soothing voice and
thought provoking questions from her own leading podcast, A Life
of Greatness, sparking meaningful conversations around purpose, connection and what
truly makes a life well lived. I mean, you can
already see now why we get along so well, But

(01:54):
what you may not know is the rich tapestry of
life experiences that led her here from the world world
of commercial radio to spiritual seeking, personal transformation, and sitting
down with some of the world's most profound thinkers and
leaders in their fields. The big names that you will
see on her podcast episode list is insane, from Deeper

(02:14):
Trobrah to Matthew McConaughey and beyond. Sarah has made it
her mission to decode greatness, not the flashy, performative kind,
but the deep, soul, nourishing greatness that comes from alignment, vulnerability,
and courage, and has also channeled her wisdom into a
fabulous book, Living a Life of Greatness that came out
just this year. In today's episode, we turn the mic

(02:36):
back on her and peelback the layers of what lights
her up, what challenges she's faced on her path, and
how she navigates the inner world while showing up so
fully in the outer one. I hope you enjoy this
one as much as I did. Sarah Grimber, Welcome to CEZA.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Thank you for having me on. So excited, so excited.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
This is very special because, as we mentioned just off air,
we've both been in podcasting for seven years. For me
nearly eight. I don't even know how to add up.
But you're what seven in April.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yes, seven in April.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
I can't believe a long time in podcast land.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
It seriously is, because I had it just before and
I said, it seems like forever, But then it also
seems like the other day because it's not long enough
that you can't remember life before, right, So but then
I feel like you and I like the ogs, like
we come with so much knowledge of podcasting.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, it was the wild worst when we started. Oh yeah,
like I reckon, there were maybe seven podcasts in the world.
There's no video, no video, And I mean, how were
you recording? What was your first setup. I had like
a little briefcase of roadmarks that i'd like set up
in people's.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Like in hotel rooms. I was just rogue.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
I was recording from this crappy old radio studio, no joke,
really old rundown And if you go back on my Instagram,
going to do we recorded via Zoom, which no one
records via now because we've realized that Zoom is not
a good platform for video and not so great for audio.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
But back in the day was kind of the only thing.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, and the quality of the video from well this
was actually a bit after because yes, we spoke about
there's no video at this when we first started was
so bad.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
It was like two pixels.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Oh, shocking, shocking, It's like almost embarrassing, But we accepted
that at the time because there was nothing else.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Well, I also think, though, if you don't cringe over
your early work. Then you haven't developed enough, like you're
meant to hate it because you're meant to have grown
in seven years. We don't want it to look the same.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, And it's funny because Sarah and I were just
saying that we feel that our voices have changed, and
even though it wasn't like we started the podcast before puberty,
where there's a change voice, but we sound different.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
I think that it's I don't know if you've seen
started doing a random series on public speaking hacks because
I didn't realize there was such an appetite. Firstly, people
hate it. They're so scared of it, and it is
incredibly nerve wracking, so that's really natural. But I think
we have gathered these random tips and hacks over the
years without realizing that we're doing them. And I think

(05:17):
one of them is slowing down, because at the start
I was like ball like I wanted to get everything
out straight away. But also I think we were higher
pitched because of the speed, and also I don't know,
excitement or youth like, I.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Don't know what it is.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
I totally agree with you with the higher pitch, the
I think, and I maybe we're a bit nervous because
we have just kind of started out, and you know,
this happens when you see someone that not that you
don't like them, but you don't know them as well,
and you'll go hi high.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
My kids are like, why are you talking like that
to that person?

Speaker 1 (06:00):
But if you know the person, you sort of talk
in a more deeper, slower pace. So I think it
might have been a bit of nerves. When we first started,
we weren't experienced, and so you're talking higher fast, definitely fast, Yeah,
one hundred percent fast.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Well, I'm definitely going to pick your brains on the
tips and hacks that you have learned over the years,
because I yeah, I'm so surprised how many people are interested.
And I think because we are all doing more presenting
just incidentally in every job there's more occasion to film
content and all that kind of thing, people are finding
it really relevant. But I want to start by going

(06:36):
all the way back to the beginning, because people meet
you now you're interviewing the greatest minds in the world,
incredibly accomplished, and it seems like you have such clear
direction and purpose, But we don't all start that way.
And I love reminding people that everyone starts as a
blank slate and kind of figures out who they are

(06:57):
bit by bit. Doesn't all happen one day. So take
us back to your childhood. What did you think you
would be? And I'm sure it wasn't a.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Podcast, definitely, even at UNI there was no podcast. When
I was young, I loved films, and I really liked
the glamor and the pizazz of these kind of cool
films that would come out that I would watch, And in.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Particular, there was The Wizard.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Of Oz and I think I was around maybe four
years old when I watched that for the first time,
and I was just struck at all the characters. I
loved how everything flowed in that movie, the colors, all
that kind of stuff, and it was like I had
this idea straight away that I want to work in entertainment.

(07:48):
Like I just at four, I knew it. I knew
and I might might not have the word entertainment, but
I knew that that was the sort of place I
wanted to work in, right, maybe a director who knows
an actress. And the more and more I got into
that idea, I thought to myself, I want to start acting.

(08:08):
I like this idea of like playing another character. I
think it'll be so fun. And so I had acting
classes really from the start of when I started school.
I think I joined with the National Theater and from
a young age I was doing acting Aims and Kilda. Yeah,
it's still there, and ironically I take my daughter there
now to do acting. I don't know if they've done

(08:30):
any renovations since I was there. It looks exactly the
same and it's such a flashback.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
It's a great It's an amazing, amazing place.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
I did ballet there, did you.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, I still have the ballet there.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
It's a really great old school place to learn ballet, acting, dancing.
So anyway, I acted there for many years and I
loved it. I was in any school play that was
put on. I mean I went to an old girls school,
so I was often playing the male parts and I
really enjoy it, right, I like the drama. I loved

(09:02):
being on stage. I love the idea of characters. That
was what really drew me in. And then I went
onto UNI. I studied a lot of different things, but
one component was kind of film, and we made films
and that was the best. But then an acting teacher
said to me, you know, ninety nine percent of actors
are unemployed. If you think about doing this full time,

(09:24):
think again. And I know it's such a full on statement,
especially when you've held a dream very you know, for
a very long time within your life, and someone who
is in an authority says that to you, And I
mean everyone takes it in a different way. But I
felt that a bit of my light was put out

(09:46):
that day and I thought, Okay, well, you know, I
don't want to be unemployed. I want to you know,
be able to facilitate whatever I need. I need to
earn money and all this kind of stuff. So I thought,
what will I do That's kind of like in an
area that's similar, but it's something I can depend on more.
And so I went into marketing and then I went

(10:08):
into PR. It was a bit of entertainment PR I
was in and I didn't mind those areas, but I
still felt like something was missing and like I was happy,
but I wasn't happy right. And then I would always
look at other people who were kind of doing more
so what I wanted to do and think like, that's

(10:29):
what I want to do. I want to be more
in that entertainment industry, and it was interesting. I was
actually working years and years ago in marketing at a
bank and I would ride with a girl. We would like,
you know, would take it in terms who was going
to drive that day. We were couple, and we would drive
past the radio station every day and I'd say, you know,
one day I'm going to work there.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
That's where I want to work.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
And then we would go on our merry way talking
and I think she actually said to me, it would
be really good at a place like that. And then
I went overseas just for a couple of miles, and
I thought I've had enough where I am doing marketing
at a corporate place. And I reached out to someone
that I knew that worked at the radio station. And
I didn't know what capacity, what team he was in,

(11:12):
or anything. I just said, this is my experience. Let
me know if you have any jobs, or anyone there
has a job going. It's so funny how things work.
And he sent me back, we have a job going
at the moment, and he sent me what it was,
the position description, and it literally met all of my
skill set and I applied and I did like two

(11:32):
tests and three interviews and I got it.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
It was in his team. He was the boss of
the team.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
And that was like my first step into radio and entertainment.
And I worked for such a long period of time
within that structure and I loved it. And I'd come
in early, unpaid to sit with the best producers in
Australia to work on the radio show, and I'd watch
how they did everything and ask questions. And then i'd

(12:00):
day back late again not part of my normal job,
not for any extra money, again with other great producers
and watch what they did, and they would train me.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
But I loved it. I loved it right. I didn't
want money or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
And then the more that I did that, the more
that people started seeing me around the place, and when
a job opened within producing, they popped me in there.
You know. I was I thought all my Christmases had
come at once. It was like the best thing in
the world.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
And I did producing for a very long period.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Of time, and then I got offered the breakfast radio show,
which is the best show that anyone can produce at
a radio station because breakfast sets you up for the
rest of the day.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
So the radio shows put a lot of money and
time into their breakfast show. It's their biggest show.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
So when I got that, I was like, wow, this
is like the biggest achievement. I can't believe it. But
I had done no inner work on myself and I
at that point it was very much about what are
my achievements. As I was talking about earlier, how much
money am I getting paid? Oh wow, okay, this ticks
the box. It looks really good. And Breakfast Radio was

(13:09):
my unraveling. I had a two and a four year
old at the time, and I was waking up at
three am every single morning from Monday to Friday, and
I just absolutely started to break. It was a harder show.
Everyone on the show became quite miserable. It wasn't doing
well as well, so there was a lot of pressure

(13:31):
on us that was really hard, and I got really sick,
really really sick, and I remember one day calling up
and saying I can't come in. I had a really
bad case of the fluid, you know the ones where
you can barely stand up. And I slept for a
lot of the day and I ended up going to

(13:51):
the couch. I was home by myself and just falling apart.
In that moment where I just thought, how has my
life become so empty?

Speaker 2 (14:03):
You know?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
I thought that the big amounts of money I was
getting for this job and being a breakfast radio producer
and working with big names would make me happy.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
It couldn't have been further from the truth.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
And I knew then that I really had to make
a choice in my life. And I'd heard about personal
development work and the idea of the mind, how some
people are happier than others, and that were able to
rewire our brain. And no one pushed me to do this.
It was completely myself and I just started. I think,

(14:37):
when we had this dark knight of the soul, we
basically cling and anything to make us feel better. And
I just went into every personal development book under the
sun and really just inhaled everything that I was learning
and loved it, like, genuinely found this information so interesting
and started practicing everything I was learning, and in a

(15:00):
short period of time, sam my life started to change
in a good way.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
With a few speed bumps, but in a good way.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Oh my gosh, it's actually incredible when you look back
at the chapters of your life where people could have
met you at NAB and just have no idea what
you would end up becoming, like I still can't even
picture you in an environment like that. And I think
it's so important to go through all these chapters because
there are so many people who listen who are at

(15:29):
that earlier chapter where they're like, I'm not really sure
what I'm doing here. It's not lighting my fire, and
they're slowly making their way closer and closer. But it's
a really good example that it doesn't happen quickly. No,
in most cases, you are slowly, slowly taking steps towards
the thing that makes you feel more alive, and it
takes a really long time to work out what that is,
including sometimes doing jobs for quite a while that aren't.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
It one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
And that's also really important data because finding out what
you don't enjoy is as valuable to know as finding
out what you do enjoy. And I feel like all
of those chapters did lead you to where you ended up.
You had to go through them first totally.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
And I'm sure you know your past work as a lawyer,
you at one hundred percent know this. I don't regret
any of those jobs that I had, and some you know,
I haven't even mentioned them.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
There were so many of them.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
I had were awful, right, They were very corporate, and
they went in kind of environments that really suited me.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
But you know what's there, I learned so much. Firstly,
I'm so detailed focus.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
I know the structure of a corporate environment. So then
I had worked in that way for maybe ten or
so years.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
So then when I moved over.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
To a bit more of a relaxed environment, which was
that radio place, I remember thinking, everyone is.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
So relaxed here.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
If I had started here and then gone to corporate,
I would have died. But because I went from a
hardcore corporate environment, learned what I needed to, especially when
I was young. Then it gave me so many skills.
The skills I learned in marketing, the skills I learned
in PR. I mean, how much do they help now
with everything that I do? Like people always say to me,

(17:13):
how are you so good at getting guests? And I think, okay,
let's track this back to my history. So I worked
in PR and marketing for a long period of time,
and then when I started the radio station, they gave
me this. Like I did activations and things there before
I was producing. But then random role, which was like
look after the talent. So my job, and I had

(17:35):
had no experience in this area, was to do the
talent negotiations with their managers and brands. So they loved
me because I was like wheeling and dealing.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
You've been speaking this language for so long.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
So long, So then when it came to my own show,
I was like, oh, yes, I have these contacts or
I know what to do because I've dealt with management
for ten years.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
So it's so funny how everything leads you to this point, right.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
So that's why often, and I'm sure you get this
in your podcast, you ask people like, you know, would
you change anything? And they say, I wouldn't change a thing,
And honestly, I wouldn't change a thing.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
You know.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
All those tough jobs, all of the uncomfortable moments, they
led me to where I am now and made me
the better person, the better worker, the better podcaster, the
better parent, and you know, so it was all worth it.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
I think about that all the time when I get
that question like what would you say to your younger self?
And I always say I wouldn't say anything that might
change my mind because all of those chapters, like you said,
built to exactly where I am right now. And so
even if there were chapters I don't love, I'm like,
but I needed to not love Gus. I needed to
learn the thing that I learned from them. But it's

(18:50):
interesting that you mentioned that you had got to this
point where you had ticked a lot of boxes. You
had the financial security, you had the objective prestige and success,
and that that's quite vacuous when you get there. There
are so many good things about it, but as you said,
it wasn't what suited you. And I think we chase
this metric of success that looks a certain way in

(19:13):
a vacuum and totally independent of what makes me happy
and what am I good at. And it's when you
unite those two things that suddenly the magic happens for people.
And there's often this moment you can see in people's
trajectories where they're like, this is me, this is who
I'm supposed to be. Yeah, So obviously for you, it
was born out of literally breaking all of that down.
Talk us through the first big moments of putting it

(19:35):
back together, like did you think I'm not going to
return to radio? Did you think I would like? How
did you work out how to emerge from that darkness,
as you mentioned, so.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
This is actually quite a crazy story. So I was too.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Scared to let go of this radio role. I was
scared of the unknown. And it's funny how things work out.
So I hated the job. I told everyone I hated it,
and I did it yet I.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Don't think it did. But I think everyone on that
show hated it.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
And it was an interesting setup because it was the
Sydney Breakfast Show, but it was done from Melbourne because
a lot of the talent were in Melbourne, so it
was a bit. That was the first time they'd done that,
so it was.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
A bit yes, exactly. So I will never forget.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
My boss flew down from Sydney to meet me, and
you know it for bosses flying down to another state,
it's getting real.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Sh it's getting real, right, I.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Thought, Oh, this is odd, and so you know, we
meet and he basically says, your role is moving to Sydney,
so their universe, your role is moving to Sydney, and
I'm thinking, well, he knows, I'm not going to go
to Sydney like I've got a whole family. You know,
everything is in Melbourne for me. So I says, I'm

(20:54):
not going to move to Sydney. And then it's interesting Sai,
because normally I would have freaked I know what my
old self was like. I would have freaked out, Oh
my god, I've been at this company for like I
think at the time, who knows six seven years? Where
am I going to go? Oh my god, it's only
like a month and I won't have a job. And

(21:15):
then two weeks passed and I get this call from
the head of the radio station and he's sitting at
the time with the head of podcasting.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
They called me. I didn't know they were going to call,
and he.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Said, look, I heard about what's happening with your role
going to Sydney, and we know that you won't have
a job, and we think that you would be great
in podcasting. I was like, okay, and they said your hours.
We know you've got young kids. Your hours can be
nine to four. And you've got to remember my hours
before that were three am till you know, god knows

(21:45):
what time, because you never really turned up as a
radio producer. And I'm like, oh my god, and you
can work four days a week And they said to me,
and no one knows this right now, so keep this
between us. But Hami Shenandy, you are about to finish
radio and then going to move to podcasting, and we
would love you to be their executive producer. And then
I went on for four years to be the EP

(22:06):
of Haimis shen Andy's podcast. The nicest people I have
ever worked with in my life. Taught me so much
about management, about working coherently, and you know, within six
months of me working on their podcast, I came up
with the idea of a life of greatness and then
you know, started that and had that on the side
whilst I was producing The Boys, And I actually was

(22:29):
producing true crime podcasts too, because I had an interest
in that, and so I asked them, can I produce
true crime? And they said that's fine, And to this
day I can't believe it. And as I said, I'm
not a religious person, but I am a spiritual person.
And the reason I am is because I've been given
these bread crumbs from the universe time and time again,

(22:51):
and it has served me so well. And I notice
now when things become unstable in my life, because as
I said to you earlier, they're always going to be
these speed bumps, right, And even though I know all
of this information, things still happen in my life that
shake me.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
No one's immuneto that.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
But I have the faith and knowledge that I'll always
be okay, right, and that allows me to get through.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
The challenging times.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
And yeah, it's quite as a crazy, crazy story, but
that was how I ended up giving up that radio role,
not by choice, but by the universe really knocking me
on the back and saying, if you're not going to
do it, we'll do it for you.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Even with Hamish and Andy.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
I had been there four years and I remember thinking,
oh my god, I'm going to I feel like it's
time to leave. I wanted to write a book and
do all these other things I thought I would never
in my life have thought that I would be the
one telling them that I wanted to leave.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
I was so sure they would be like you're gone
or something like that.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Right, Yeah, But I did it because I wanted to
finish on a high and I didn't want what happened
with the radio job to happen again. Right. I knew
that I needed to move away to do my dama,
my purpose, which is you know, bringing mindset and my
knowledge to more people. And as much as I loved
working with them, you know, it was taking up time.

(24:18):
I couldn't do what I wanted to, And so when
I decided to leave them, it was so beautiful and
they were so graceful because I did it.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
On my terms.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yes, Oh my gosh. And it's so interesting because I
had that same parallel as you, where the first big
pivot that ever happened was involuntary and a definite, but
like I don't even know, some kind of spiritual guardian
was giving me a big nudge that I never would
have taken myself. And I often think it makes me
shudder how long people will sit in familiar unhappiness because

(24:53):
it's more certain than unfamiliar happiness, Like I don't. It
just shocks me to think that you you would rather
be desperately unhappy in something with something that you know,
then take a step. But once the universe has given
you that push, it's so enlightening that suddenly you're like,
I can bring about that pivot. I don't have to
wait for the universe to do it for me. I

(25:14):
can take control. And that's been a massive lesson for
me as well. Is that you do start to get
signs that it's time for a new chap hundred percent,
and you're allowed to leave something good to go for
something great. And I think that's something I never knew
that I had permission to do. I thought that that
was ungrateful to focus on instrcent gratuity. I thought that

(25:36):
that was am I a millennial who just wants the
next big thing. But it's like, no, you outgrow chapters.
It's okay to take the next step. And I love
that you said you knew it was the right time,
because I think younger you probably wouldn't have been in
tune with the signs, but by then you'd realize, like,
this is how I know I need to.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Grow one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
And younger me would have thought any man and their
dog would love this job. Leave this and you're not
going back because there's nothing else for me.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
But it really like, I notice the way life plays
out for me. I take notice of what happens, and
I always think like, Okay, why did that happen? How
can I improve on that? How would I do that again?
And the radio job, it shook me. It shook me
when they said the job's moving to Sydney, and I

(26:27):
really thought, I don't want that to happen again, where
I'm in this situation where, oh my goodness, what's going on.
So I knew that it was time to move away
from producing Hamish and Andy, and I did it. And
when I did it, it was just, you know, there
was no regrets. It just felt it just felt really natural.
And you know, it's not okay. I got a book
deal straight away and all this other stuff. Things took time,

(26:50):
but that was okay because I had the belief in
what I was doing was the right thing to do.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
It's like this weird intuition that kicks in, and I
see it a lot in people's like tracing back from
the very beginning. You see the first few chapters in
people's career pathways are informed by different values and are
a lot more frictious, and then they reach this point
where they're decision making changes and it becomes more intuitive
and then it's easy. They're still risk and they're still fear,

(27:21):
but it's sort of a sure fear that it's the
right kind of risk to take.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
One hundred percent. I feel like you become a lot wiser.
You know, you've gone through the other fires, you've realized, Okay,
how did that feel, how did that work? And so
you become wiser with your decisions. And sometimes things don't
work out the way that we'd planned, and that's okay
because sometimes those dead ends they're just detours into another.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Direction and that's absolutely okay.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
And still in life, like I said, there are things
where I think, why did that happen? That's not ideal,
and then you never know what's around the corner or
who you met because that opportunity didn't quite go the
way you wanted or didn't go at all. There's always
something that leads you to where you need to be,
and it's not instantaneous.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yes, oh my god, even though I want it to be,
we all do. And so you had started the podcast
in the background while you were still doing the show,
and I think that's also a really important point that
you know, we talk about these big leaps from one
thing to another, but often you've had it boiling in
the background, and I think there's a big risk mitigation

(28:34):
in you'd had the show for a couple of years.
It wasn't like you were leaving a show to start
a brand new show. You'd had a little bit of
data to prove that it was growing. But a big
thing for you in this story is going from an
ep behind the scenes to suddenly you're the talent. And
so for everyone listening, who has you know, been engaging
with my content about becoming a public speaker and how

(28:54):
nerve wracking that is? How did it go for you
at the beginning? Suddenly you were the Yeah? That terrifying?
Did it feel natural? Because you'd always been interested in acting?
How did you grow your ability to be a speaker
and to be so eloquent?

Speaker 1 (29:10):
I love this question so much because two things. Because
the keynote speaking was one set of skills, and then
the interviewing was another. And with the interviewing, I didn't
find it as scary in saying that. Sure, the first
interview or two that ideas, I was obviously nervous because

(29:32):
you know.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
It was new wish to me.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
But as we were talking about earlier, my skill set
was then acting producing, So I had spent a long
period of time watching the way that talent from shows I.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Was producing would interview people.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
I would then teach also as a producer, people had
like new talent how to interview people because I had
the acting skills to me being on a stage or
in front of a mike. I didn't find that to
be too scary obviously. Like anything, the more you do it,
the better you get at it. And you know, the
first few interviews ideas, they were okay. They weren't amazing,

(30:14):
they were okay, right, they were okay. And like anything
like an athlete does when they start to learn a
sport or whatever it is, practice makes perfect.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
The more you do it, the better you get at it.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
The public speaking, however, especially keynote speaking, as you know,
is so unbelievably overwhelming and daunting when you first did it.
And I will never forget the first time that I
did public speaking in front of a couple of hundred people.
I did not learn the speech off by heart like

(30:46):
that came with time, and so it was all written
out and I got up there and for a bit
of it I was holding the speech sah.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
My hand was shaking so much.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
That the paper was shaking with me, right, So I
was like, okay, put the paper down on the left
turn and I did it like that was it good?

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I'm sure it was not.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Thank God, you had a lecture exactly. I don't know
how nervous you would have any of you didn't have
something to stand behind.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Do you know what It's so embarrassing when your handshakes,
because then everyone knows that you're nervous too, because you think,
at least if I'm nervous, no one can see, right,
but when you're handshaking, everyone can see.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
So I wasn't very good. I'm sure I wasn't good.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
No one gave me that feedback, but I have no
doubt that I was not good. Again, what happens over
time you practice more and more. But I had been
given some advice, and this would be interesting for people
who are listening, because sometimes some bad advice, if you
go for it, it doesn't work out well.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
So I got bad advice and then great advice.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
I got given advice from people in the public speaking
arena that I.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Had to learn the speech that I had written out
word for word. Oh no, exactly.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
So I didn't know because that was my first forte
into you know, doing keynotes. So I tried so hard
to learn the speech off by heart, and I could not,
and I would exactly well, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
So I got so tired. It was such a weird reaction.
I would go to learn.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
And it's like my mind shut off and I would
start yawning and getting tired.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
And then this was the worst bit.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
I thought, there's something wrong with me, Like, why can't
I memorize this?

Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know, ten page speech? Right? And I just put
it down for I reckon a good year. I just
thought it's not for me.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I'd love to be a keynote speaker and get my
messages across, but it's too hard. And I suppose some
I mean, I do believe some people have that skill
set and some don't.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
And so I gave it away.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
And then beautiful Yelena dockitch Ca, love my god, she
gave me the best advice that changed my life. We
were talking one day and Yelena not only is she
a gorgeous person inside and out, she said to me,
she does so much keynote speaking right, and you know
her background's not acting or anything like that. And I said,

(32:59):
how do you do it? How did you get into it?
I told her about my challenges. She goes, oh, no,
you don't do that. She goes, just write it out
the first few you go do It's fine, you just
read it off the page and then you get more
and more used to what your content is. And then
she said, and then you add lib so you know
your stories. You use slides to direct you, and.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
You can change it every time.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
But you have the base of what you're going to
talk about, but the words in it might change. That's okay,
No one knows. She said something so critical, Sarah, these
are your stories, right, you know, these stories back to front.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
And it was changed everything for me.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
I started doing my speech. I've got a few speeches,
but I started doing it. I was like, these are
my stories practicing. Oh my god, I'm quite good at this.
And then I started you speaking and it flowed. But
it's so interesting how two pieces of advice changed me
in different ways. So for anyone out there, go for

(34:03):
the advice that you're Yeah, if you're interested in doing
keynote speaking, but just be careful about the advice people
give you, because really, if I had just left it
at that, that would have changed a lot of my
career because speaking is a big part of it.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Absolutely, and I think that is you know, people say
you're the sum of the five people you spend the
most time with. It doesn't have to be five, but
anyone who you keep as your counsel, like make sure
that they're going to give you affirming, positive advice that
brings out the best in you.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Because it's really easy.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
To shut down someone's confidence, yes, but it's also really
easy to boost it. And gosh, it makes me shut
out to think that you might never have I mean,
your keynotes are so powerful, but that you might never
have returned because of one person's opinion.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, it's I know, it's crazy, isn't it. And then
how another person's great advice changed everything show it's just
also on that how our words are so important that
we speak to others, and how we don't know what
we say, how that could change the trajectory of someone's life.
And I think, like your podcast is so good, like

(35:10):
that you have these beautiful conversations and even if it's
just one thing that someone listens to today, that could
change the direction of their life forever.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
And what a gift is that?

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, I mean, and your podcast too. I've always thought
that in telling these stories, even if people do only
take one tiny thing and it hits them at the
right time in their life, like that's more than a.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Metric for success hundred people.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
I don't really care about anything else other than that
the impact of the one perl that you take out,
and I take that from other people's podcasts too. I
might listen to a whole podcast and go, well, the
thing that stood out isn't the thing I expected, but
it's this and that will stick with me forever. Having
done now, I think you've done nine seasons. It's been
seven years, and you've had some extraordinary guests as well

(35:55):
as doing your own episodes in between. So I can't
go past Matthew McConaughey because Wowl, Mel Robbins, Bindi Irwin,
Jada Pinkett, Smith, Daniel Ricardo, like such a variety of people.
What I think is the greatest privilege of having a
podcast is that we get to learn from these people
and the fact that anyone else is listening as a
bonus other than Elena's advice, Are there any other messages

(36:17):
that have just changed what you have thought about life
or the world, Like do you have a favorite episode
or a favorite guest or a couple of favorites that
just changed who you are?

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, that's such a great question.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
There was a lady and you know, I'm sure you
actually wouldn't know who she is, which is always funny,
isn't it, Because I mean, the biggest, so amazing things,
but it's the ones that are not as known, and
she she does have a public for sewn up better.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Not as well known.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
In Australia is a lady called Caroline Mace, and she's
a medi cointuitive but you know, she doesn't so much
talk about her work, and I don't think she does
so much of that work anymore.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
But she's a spiritual teacher and she's older and she's
so wise.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
And she said this line to me that I will
never forget, and I think about often and it's so simple,
but it's so powerful. She said, no day of your
life will ever come again.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
And I often think that.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
When a day's been hard, or we just want to
see out the week, or you know, when we're young
and you know, we've got a young child and it
seems like we're wishing the time away because they're going
through a hard stage or whatever it is. And then
when I think about, no day of your life will
ever come again, it just puts everything into perspective where

(37:37):
we see people and they die early, or you know,
something happens that's a true tragedy, and we think, why
did we sweat the small stuff?

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Right?

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Life is so finite, and sometimes we take it for granted,
which is normal. But when we think about that line,
no day of your life will ever come again, it
just sticks with you and allows you to be more
present and realize that life is more of a gift
than something that we just want to get to the

(38:10):
end of the week with.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
So I think what she said, you know, really really
hits home with me a lot.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
God, there are so many people, you know, there's obviously
like scientific advice that I've been given, which I think
is really interesting. Like Andrew Huberman who talks about going
into the sun.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
Series was amazing. It was a two part you did
a two part of.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
It was one.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
It was a very long episode because he talks a lot.
It could have been two part for sure, you know.
But something like that, which is just something so simple
about morning sunlight, It really was life changing for so
many people that listen to that episode and for me
as well. So something like that is so poignant, you know.
Someone else on the podcast said recently that were talking

(38:54):
about how we think with our parents. You know, this
happens a lot, I think for people who don't have
parents that obviously live in the same country as them.
He was talking about the amount of times that you
see your parents, and if you see them a couple
of times a year or something like that, and there
are a certain age, well, how many more times will
you see them? And then when you think about it

(39:15):
like that, oh my god, it could be a couple
of handfuls of times. Again, it goes back to the
whole idea of you know, not taking life for granteds
not sweating the small stuff, making the most out of
the relationships that we love and cherish. Those are the
things that I love. Yeah, They're the deep things that

(39:35):
talk to life at its truest form. They're the things
that always hit me the hardest, and it just goes
with who I am as a person I love. I
love that sort of content as well.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
Yes, so do I. I think your most recent episode
was a hospice nurse and like, oh, on its face
it sounds morbid, but there is so much to gain
from the life you live now from people reflecting a little.
It further along and that book The Five Regrets of
the dying. I talk about it all the time. Even
though it sounds the opposite of yay, it's actually the

(40:08):
most instructive on how to get more yay out of
the years that you do have. Listening to people say
they no one wishes they spent more time at work
at the cost of family, or that they you know,
were more successful and spent less time having fun. Like
there's just these metrics that we get so much about.

(40:28):
It's very, very sobering and such a good perspective giver.
Another thing that you do so well, as you mentioned before,
is you have so many transferable skills in pitching to
get these incredible guests, and not just for anyone who
also is pitching things to people or has a podcast,
but even just in life generally. You're so good at

(40:48):
asking the question. And I think that's the thing we're
so scared about all the time is what if they
say no, So we don't ask whether it's a promotion,
whether it's getting a guest on your podcast, Like I'm
sure you didn't ask Matthew McConaughey and assume he would
say yes. What are some of your tips for asking
big questions that are scary or asking the universe like
you said you manifested that day. I think often people

(41:11):
don't get what they want, but they've never asked for it. Yes,
you can't win the lottery if you didn't buy a ticket, dude,
like you have to ask the question. Your name has
to be in the ring for you to get that opportunity.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Have you ever heard There's this great fable about this
guy when he was praying to God and said, you know,
all I want to do is win ten million dollars
at the.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Lottery, And every day he would pray, and you would pray, Oh, yes,
you bought a ticket.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, And he gets to the end of the his life.
He goes to heave and he sees God, and he goes,
why can you give me the ten million? And God says,
you need it to go and buy the ticket. Right,
exactly true. It's so true. And I think, look, what
are we fearing?

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Rejection?

Speaker 1 (41:50):
What's the underlying fear here? I do this for everything
when I think, oh, I'm the worst, what's the worst
case scenario? And usually the worst case scenario is not
that bad, right, Okay, So this is what I'm fearing, honestly,
Like we're not going to get everything in life. I
mean I have said Noah's been said to me a
lot of times, and sometimes it does hurt a little bit,

(42:11):
especially if you then see someone then then can get
the opportunity and you didn't get it, and you think, oh,
what is it about them and not with me? Well
it goes back to just having the faith that it's
not your turn right now, and maybe something better is
going to come along or something different, and that's absolutely okay.
I mean as far as guests are concerned. I got
some again great advice early on from a friend of

(42:31):
mine that is in sales.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
She said to me, Sarah, when you're in sales, you
harden up.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
You put out that many pictures and people either come
or they don't. And she goes, I put so many
out I don't even remember who I put them out to.
She goes, you just start pitching to guests and you'll
forget half the people.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
You've pitched to. And it was such great advice because
I didn't really care.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
I wasn't putting all my eggs in one basket with
like Matthew McConaughey or something like that. I was putting
out to all these other people that I couldn't even
remember everyone that I had pitched to, So when they
came back, I was like.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Oh wow, I forgot idea. Yeah, I forgot I'd even
pitched to that, And that was really good.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
And Mel Robbins actually said the same thing on my
podcast when we were talking about doing business deals and
things like that and when they were taking time and
how you know you would know this With big deals,
they can sit for six months, you go back and forward,
or you know, sometimes the person takes a while to
send a contract through whatever it is, and you know,
you start.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Doing your head in.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
She said, don't rely on that one thing, go and
pitch to other places as well, or go and try
and pitch a new idea to someone else. And again
it's that same idea where if we're scared of rejection,
don't focus on that one thing, put out to many
because you just don't know what will come back. And then,
like anything, you kind of get used to it, right

(43:54):
because you don't put as much weight on just one.
And I think that's really been some advice and for
anyone listening, I think that is very very helpful. And
like anything, the more you do it, the more you
get immune to it. So people say no here and
there whatever, they're lost totally.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
And I also think that a lot of it is timing.
Like my biggest tip with guests that you want is
there's a time in everyone's career where they'll be about
to sell something, and just ask in the right timing.
Like if Matthew mcconaugheys said no to you, and then
like two years later you saw he was about to
bring out a book, Like, why wouldn't you ask again,

(44:31):
because he's probably going to be saying yes to a
lot more interviews just before the book, yeah, than he
is in any other time. And so the biggest guests
I've ever got were during COVID because we were doing nothing,
and so I was like, God, they're probably like willing
because they're at home board And so it's funny about timing,
Like I had no shame in asking twice for some
people who had said no earlier, but now that they

(44:53):
were at home doing nothing, they were like sure, And
you just got to not have as much shame or
fear of embarrassment. Totally cares if they say no, it's
not big deal.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
It's not a big deal.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Can I tell you I can't even remember the amount
of pictures I did for mel Robins before she came
on the podcast over the last five years, because I've
known about her for a long time, and she had
other books that were successful, but not as like you know,
the let them theory is like you know, Juggernaut. Obviously
I would hear like sometimes back, mostly not, And I

(45:23):
just kept sending.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
I wasn't obviously didn't have her email.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah, I was sending to god knows where, you know,
maybe through the website or whatever it was. I think
I would have sent three fifteen pictures over the last
five years that ended nowhere fast. And what happens, she
is the biggest she's ever been over the last year
or two. She has this book which is going to
be one of the biggest books of its time. And

(45:47):
that is when I get her.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Yeah, isn't that fascinating?

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (45:51):
And I didn't, like you said, it doesn't matter if
you send a couple of times. I mean a lot
of the time. What I've noticed with pictures too, sometimes
you don't send to the right place.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Yeah, the right person, Yeah, yea one hundred percent, And
so you get the right number and then suddenly they're like,
we would have said yes years ago, and I'm like,
I didn't have your email.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
It's so funny.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
And this Caroline lady I was talking about, this is
an interesting story where I was just like inboxing through
her website because it had like a form nothing. And
then I went on Instagram and I don't think she
runs her own page, and I saw a page that
seemed to have her stuff that look legit, and it
had someone's email, and I thought it wasn't her email,

(46:29):
and I thought, I'm just going to send my pitch,
and then the guy then forwarded it to her and
within one day she told me she could come on
the podcast.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
After about three years of sending to the official channel.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Ah, you definitely anyone listening. You have to get creative
if you want to you have to become like a
PI who's going deep into old instagrams and websites and
articles with like like, I have mostly got yeses from
very unconventional means.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
What's the craziest, weirdest one that you've done?

Speaker 3 (46:58):
I think probably just random DM yes like ones that
I threw out with an emoji or something like hahaha.
Imagine if it came my podcast, like really unofficial, just
random thinking absolutely, no way will they ever see this?
And then they go sure, and you're like, what, I
literally pitched this full seven page document to your official

(47:19):
You know it's you just have to get through the gates. Yes,
And I think you have to try a few gates.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yeah, you do.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
I remember there was this one guy years ago. He
was like he was his amazing army guy, ex army guy,
and I was trying everywhere and nothing worked. And then I,
through the Internet found that he had worked at a
university at a period of time. So I emailed my
pitch to the university, thinking again like who knows, and

(47:44):
again same with what happened with Caroline.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
They just aforded it to him. Yeah, so you have
to be so creative and don't give up.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
And no, he's not, we learned him producing and no
is only a no when you get no from the person.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
That's such good advice.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Yes, because they have gay keepers and they often don't
get even asked.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yes, I found out a lot too. The gatekeepers doesn't
mean always that. I mean I was that for a
long period of time. It doesn't mean and I did
always show to the talent. Do you want this person on?
Even if I thought maybe they wouldn't. It's not up
to me to make that decision. But sometimes it doesn't
lead to the talent, and the gatekeeper is the one
saying no without asking the talent.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
So yeah, there you go. Who would your dream guest
be if you could manifest? Right now? The universe is listening.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
The person that I would actually really love on I
have tried on numerous occasions is Nick cave I. I
went to see him a year or two ago. I
think he plays in Melbourne. I actually know his stuff
that much like I knew a couple of songs.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
It was unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
But you know, I'm a real story person, and his
story of grief and his beautiful music and what he's
been through is incredible. And he has these like Redhand Files,
which is a newsletter that he puts out maybe once
a fortnite and someone writes a question, like a very
meaningful question, and then he just answers it. And he's

(49:07):
the very type that I like, really deep, really thoughtful,
and I think his journey is just one that I'd
love to chat to him about.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Oh, I would love to hear that episode Who's Yours?
I think if I was going really big names, I
would love to speak with Keanu Reeves for the same reason. Yeah,
for that unique ability to be as famous as he
is and yet have so many stories of humility and normalcy,

(49:38):
with intense tragedy and so much grief, but finding somehow
the capacity to be kind and find joy. I just
think he would be fascinating to speak with. I mean,
there's so many, but he's one that comes to mind
often where I'm like, what makes your brain joy that

(49:59):
it does?

Speaker 1 (50:00):
I've heard amazing, you know, his story is amazing. Another
one on that's actually Jim Carey. He is fascinating. Yeah, again,
been through Helen back, but his story of like growing
up in poverty and then literally manifesting work and money,
and how he used to drive the streets of la

(50:20):
imagining himself there in the big House and having like
a pretend one hundred dollars, like a few I don't know, No,
I think he had. Actually it was he had a
pretend check for like a million dollars in his pocket
that he used to have, and then he did some
movie and they gave him a million dollars. So he's

(50:40):
you know, a really deep person as well. There are
so many beautiful people.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
I think of people like I want their brains. I
want to crawl inside their brain and see how it ticks.
And I feel like some people's brains you see it,
like Keanu does things that you're like, I just want
to know what you were thinking, Whereas some people just
kind of do their life and it doesn't fascinate me
as much. Like everyone has a fascinating story, but he's
definitely someone like I want to hear what your version

(51:07):
of that is.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I hope you get in.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Oh, well, I haven't even asked, so maybe this is
my sign. We should actually just go on email seriously,
sisters cousins Dogwalker, Yeah, and we'll get so true. You've
got to ask the question if there was anything other
than that advice. I mean, you have had yeah, nine
seasons of picking incredible brains about living a life of

(51:31):
greatness and written a book and done so many keynotes,
and I just filled with wisdom on enhancing your life
in so many ways and from so many different angles.
If you could leave our audience with one thing, what
would it be.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
I think it's to live a life of authenticity and
It keeps coming up time and time again with every
guest that I interview, and I even think about it
for myself. I think, you know, what does that mean?
People might be asking, you know, when we're young, and
I see it now in my daughter. We want to
be what everyone else is, and that's completely normal. You know,

(52:04):
someone has the red skirt, we want the red skirt.
They do their hair certain way, we want to do
our hair cittain way. We want to fit in right,
and we're not really living true to what we want
because maybe by you know, when we're young, we don't
really know what that is. When we get older, we
understand the things that we like and the things that
we don't like. But some of us just keep doing

(52:25):
things for the sake of fitting in or the sake
of making our parents happy or our partner happy. And then,
you know, going back to the deathbed where they're going,
this isn't the life that I wanted to live. And
I think for me, I always had that thing within
me that I wanted to do acting and entertainment, and
you know, I went there a very long and windy journey.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
As we've discussed, but I got.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
There in the end and I couldn't be in a
position where I feel any happier than where I am
now with what I'm doing, because I feel like I'm
hitting the part of me that liked the creativity and
being in the entertainment realm. But I also am giving
back and that is the most important thing to me.

(53:11):
To be able to change people's lives through the wisdom
that I share and other people's conversations. That is more
meaningful to me than anything else. So I think if
we can live in authenticity to us and have a
part of that be of service to help other people.
I always say this beautiful quote by the spirit the

(53:32):
late spiritual teacher around us, which is we're all here
to walk each other home. And I truly believe that,
and if we're working to our highest potential, then that
comes very naturally.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
So I think that.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
Would be the biggest gift that I could share with
people and advice that I would give them.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
Oh that's beautiful, and there is so much more on
your incredible podcast. I will make sure to include links
to that and your book in the show notes. And
thank you so much for doing.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Us, Sarah, Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
I've loved this conversation immensely, so thank you for having
me Ah two.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
Podcasting Sarah's was always going to make for a fascinating chat.
I hope you enjoyed this one and took away as
many revelations and our har moments as I did, and
as I always do when I'm so lucky to spend
time with Sarah. Please, as always show her your support
sharing the episode or any of hers too, tagging both
Sarah and us at CZA so we can grow the

(54:28):
yighborhood as far and wide as possible. There is so
much going on this time of year, my goodness, and
our live event with Headley Thomas is rapidly approaching, so
I cannot wait to see some of you in the flesh.
In the meantime, I hope you're having a wonderful week
and are seizing your yay