Seize The Bébé // Starting Solids (Part 1)

Welcome to a very hotly awaited episode of Seize the Bebe and by hotly awaited, I mean we had SO many submitted questions from you guys but possibly even more from me. Pretty much every area of parenting is overwhelming, sometimes confusing and energy intensive but starting solids is right up there at the top of the list in the early days so it’s one of the first topics I wanted to cover.

Most of you also follow along on socials, so you will probably already have heard about Nourishing Bubs and how game changing it has been for Teddy’s introduction to solids but if you don’t know, it’s a beautiful Australian business using 100% Aussie fruits & veggies to create individually portioned frozen baby food purees and foods plus a groundbreaking allergen intro pack. They’re delivered to your door and make it SO easy to start the process of introducing foods, taking away so much stress and freeing up your time.

But possibly even more stressful is also wading through timing, volume, methods and so much other information - even now I still have so many questions on a daily basis. SO I am THRILLED that the incredible Nourishing Bubs founder, paediatric dietitian nutritionist Olivia Bates joins us for this episode to share her wealth of knowledge.

As always, every baby is different and every family has different preferences, priorities and needs so we’ll be talking general information but of course it will vary for each individual. I’ll also include links to everything we mention in the show notes but in the meantime I hope you find this as useful as I did!

LINKS

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy,
but tired and worn, just some of the feelings when
baby is born. There's magic, elation, there's chaos and tears,
but everyone goes through the same hopes and fears. So
this is a segment we hope helps you feel supported
and valid. The mum juggles real, the good, bad, the ugly,
the best and worst day. It's part of the journey

(00:22):
to seize the Babe. I'm Sarah Davidson, a lawyer turned
entrepreneur who hung up the suits and heels to co
found Macha Maiden, a Macha Milk Bar, become a TV
and radio presenter, and of course host The Sees the
Ya Podcast. This year, I added motherhood to that list,
which is the best job I've ever had with our
beautiful baby Teddy, and this segment was designed to house
all the conversations we've been having about parenthood. We'll still

(00:45):
do our regular episodes, and just like real life, it's
a constant balance between our parent identity and everything else.
I hope you guys enjoy this segment as much as
I have enjoyed creating it. Welcome to a very hotly
awaited episode of Seize the Baby, and by hotly awaited,

(01:07):
I mean we had so many submitted questions from you guys,
but possibly even more came up in my own brain,
so this is a bit of a selfish episode as well.
Pretty Much every area of parenting is overwhelming, sometimes confusing,
energy intensive, but I think starting solids is right up
there at the top of that list in the early days,
so it's one of the first topics I wanted to cover,

(01:28):
and after a few false starts in recording, we finally
got there. Most of you also follow along on socials,
so you'll probably already have heard about Nourishing Bubs and
how game changing has been for Teddy's introduction to solids.
But if you don't know, it's a beautiful Australian business
using one hundred percent Aussie fruits and veggies to create
individually portioned frozen baby food pures and foods, plus a

(01:49):
ground breaking allergen intro pack. They're delivered to your door
and make it so easy to start the process of
introducing foods, taking away so much stress and really freeing
up your time. But possibly even more stressful is also
waiting through the timing of introducing solids, the volume, the methods,
and so much other information. Even now, I still have

(02:11):
so many questions on a daily basis. So I am
thrilled that the incredible Nourishing Bubs founder, pediatric dietitian and
nutritionist Olivia Bates joins us for this episode to share
her wealth of knowledge. And it was such an incredible chat,
covering so much detail that I've actually split it into
a two parter, so we will be talking about when

(02:31):
to start solids and how you do it in the
first part, which you're getting today, and then the separate
section because it is so detailed on allergens, will drop
next week to follow. As always, every baby is different
and every family has different preferences, priorities, and needs, so
we will be talking general information and referring to the
studies that the information is pulled from, but of course

(02:53):
it will vary for each individual and family. I'll also
include links to everything we mentioned in the show notes,
but in the meantime, I hope you find this one
as useful as I did. Olivia, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
I'm so excited to be here, Sarah. Thank you so
much for having me.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Oh, thank you so much for joining I mean we've
had multiple attempts, multiple this morning, but multiple before this also.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
I know it seems like a journey, but it's meant to.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Be, absolutely meant to be. We actually tried before Christmas
and there were tech issues and then there was mum
life issues. But I said to you before we started
recording that Teddy's actually had you know, more questions have
come up this week that I wanted to ask you.
So I feel like timing always works itself out in
a crazy way.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yes, no, that's awesome. Yeah know, so it is funny.
I'm sure things like as you're approaching that one year
mark like it just it's such a constant process as well.
So yes, I'm glad it's all worked out, and I'm
so excited to be.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Here constant learning journey, and I'm especially grateful to have
you because you have been such a pivotal part of
Teddy's journey. And I think I, you know, as I
do approach that one you mark, which oh my god,
I can't even believe it, look back at the businesses
and the people and sort of the experiences that have
formed what your motherhood journey has looked like and what

(04:08):
that first year has looked like, and you've been really
a big part of making our life easier and our
experience better, like measurably better than it would have been
without you. So I'm very, very grateful for you.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
That honestly means a lot. And you've been so supportive
of the business. And I've just yeah, loved just watching
the journey and watching you guys really flourish as parents
because I was following your journey before you felt pregnant.
I've been following since mattibated, so as I told you before,
so big time follower, and it's just been amazing to watch,
really such a joy for me to be part of it.
So thank you.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Oh well, that's really special, and it's I think one
of the great privileges of social media is that you
can follow people through different chapters of their lives. And
I love that you know, you have been around since
then when motherhood was so far from my mind, and
yet now you know we've reconnected in this new chapter.
So we have so many questions, like it is just
starting solids is one of the most overwhelming, information dense

(05:04):
chapters of parenting and of life for a little one.
But you know, I love the story as well. So
before we get into the many, many questions that have
been submitted that I have, can you tell us a
little bit about your background in eddiatric dietetics and what
that means, and then you know how Narish and Bubbs
came about.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, absolutely so. I when I came out of Unich. Look,
I always wanted to do something in the baby space.
I actually used to want to be a pediatrician, but
to be blatantly honest, I was like, I don't think
I can do that many years at Uni, so I
sort of was like, I need to do something else.
Decided to be a dietitian because I also loved food
and wanted to be a chef at one point, and
was like, I found dietetics. And then when I came

(05:45):
out of Union, I worked for an almond milk company,
so I went straight into the food space, and I
guess I just got really exposed to that potential to
influence the food supply, which sort of sounds a bit ridiculous,
but like, you know, instead of just doing one on
one consult so you can ultimately like influence the food
people have. And then inevitably I was like, you know,
walking down the baby food asal and at the time
it was very much like shelf stable squeezes and jars

(06:07):
of food, and I was like, this is actually gross,
like beef that's sat in a pouch for like two
years and like so heat treated, and I'm like yuck.
Like I'm like, this is worse than what we'd feed
like pets, So why are we not doing better for kids?
So I guess I really just wanted to take it
back to basics. And this was back in twenty seventeen.
I sort of well, I think twenty sixteen I came
up with the concept and then we launched in twenty seventeen.

(06:30):
So actually it's been quite a few years now. It's
definitely been, you know, as you would know, such a
rollercoaster journey. We've been in Woolworks during COVID years, which
really was an interesting, interesting journey to say the least.
It's definitely tested me. But it's yeah, like we're the
last twelve months, I would say, we've seen a lot
of growth and it's really like turned a corner. The

(06:51):
Allergen Pack's been really amazing for us, and we've been
really trying to pump out more products and yeah, it's
just really coming to But I'm just like, I've always
just loved babies, loved the baby space. I don't have
any yet of my own, although it's a work in progress.
But yeah, I'm just obsessed with kids, anything I can
do to help them, and I just think I really
wanted to make it easier for parents, Like I just

(07:12):
found there is so, as you said, so much overwhelming information,
some really conflicting information. I think when you're sleep deprived
and you're like, I have no idea what I'm doing,
and then you look something up and one person saying this,
one person saying that, including your GP and your obstetrician
and your midwife and your mom and your mother in law,
and everyone has something to say, and it's like, oh
my god, Like what do I do? Just give me

(07:34):
a straight answer. So yeah, I just wanted to really
alleviate that pressure. And a lot of what we do
is also education as well around it. So yeah, that's
important to me.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
I mean, you absolutely have done that, and perhaps to
a fault, I think in that sleep deprived chapter. For
me personally, anyway, it's almost like once you sort of
start with all the overwhelming information and then you kind
of choose your trusted sources in each area. And I
almost kind of once I decided, like Olivia is my
trusted source in food, I kind of but like maybe

(08:05):
other parents might listen and go, you could have like
maybe research a little bit more, But I kind of like,
once I decide a person is my authority in that area,
because you're just so you have to block out everything
else because once you make a decision, you got to
kind of roll with it. It became like you became
my trusted source, and then I've just done literally everything
that you've told me to do, like like.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Look, look he's looking great.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
So yeah, yeah. I also think what's really beautiful is
that we just had an episode like on our sort
of guest interview for Bluth. It was the founder of
Blue Thumb Art and he's like a multimillion dollar art
tech founder, but he knew nothing about art. And I

(08:47):
think what's really interesting about your stories. You would assume
he came out of your own personal frustration as a mum,
but it was your passion for your skill and your
your passion for the food industry that you could walk
down the baby food aisle without buying any of that
and still be passionate enough to start a business. Like
I think people don't believe that if they're not personally
connected at the time, they can't make a good idea.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, no, that like and people are always like, surely
you have children, you have children, right, And I'm like, no, way,
I actually don't. Like I obviously love kids, and I
can't wait I have babiesat forel like half of Sydney's children,
and like, I know, I know kids well, Like I
do know kids well, and I have had experience like
feeding children understand like some of the you know, the
battles and whatever. But I yeah, it's it's very much

(09:31):
you know from I come at it from the Dietitian perspective, like,
you know, knowing what I would want to feed my
child when I'm a parent, So yes, I am. I'm
aiming for the ideal, but I'm also very I have
that experience enough experience with kids to also know, like, yes,
you might feed them the perfect meal and they might
throw it on the floor and choose to have a
hot ship or something, you know, Like I one hundred

(09:52):
percent understand, but I wanted to like simplify it, Like
I just wanted to make it as simple as possible
and go here you go. So I yeah, so I
I think I like really resonated with that. I mean
I do say to my husband like, I think I
need my child for marketing purposes, so it's really good
for advertising. But but you know, my my I will come.

(10:14):
But it's yeah, no, it's always an unusual and to
be honest, sometimes I'm a bit nervous about people I'm
not a parent and I do as a business owner
as something that I battle with and I have been
told by like you know when I've looked at investor
things as well, They're like, yeah, I wouldn't lead with
the fact that you're not a mum, Like that's just
not a good leader. I was like, okay, wow, yeah,
I have been told, and I'm like okay, So sometimes

(10:35):
I shy away from being like, oh, yeah, I'm not
a mum yet.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
So yeah, that's really interesting. But I just think that
it's a it's from a business perspective, like before we
even get to the actual practical stuff. For anyone listening
who does have an idea, but they do think that
that excludes them from an industry. I absolutely think you're
an amazing example that it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, yeah, I hope so, and I hope that, Like
I mean, I will be the one that will sit
there and talk babies with your telecows come home, like
I'm very happy to do that, like but I love
them so like I'm just like I was the little
girl that was like I just want to go back
and I want my baby born, Like I was obsessed
with my baby born. If you're from the nineties, you
know what I'm talking about. But like, yeah, I loved it.

(11:17):
Where's the nappies? Like, yeah, that's all that's so sweet?

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Well, yeah, I mean talking about education and alleviating the
overwhelm and stress and also lack of options. Really, at
the time that you started, you have absolutely done that.
Above and beyond. From a personal anecdotal perspective. You can
borrow Teddy and make him a little mascot for now
because it has truly been like since I was looking back,

(11:43):
he's my post. His first box was around early September
last year, so I worked out that's just a bit
before six months. So one of the main areas of
questions that I had and that a lot of people have,
I've divided everyone submitted questions into like when, what, how,
and and allergens and then sort of other So maybe
we could start with when I assume for you that's

(12:05):
sort of also when you know you have to think
about when you start marketing to people and when your
product is going to become relevant. So what are your
thoughts on I thought that the most literature sort of
spoke about six months, but then there's thoughts on starting before.
Then a question was submitted about feeling forced by the
GP and nurses to start it for and a half.

(12:26):
What is your take on timing?

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, so this is such a great question. I think
it's definitely one that creates a lot of confusion online.
I will go straight in and say part of the
confusion is the way that it is written in the guidelines,
like specifically written. So in Australia we like to follow
the Australian Society of Clinical Immunology Analogy guidelines there for
our population. Their wording is to introduce solids around six months,

(12:49):
not before four months. When baby is showing signs of readiness,
continue breastfeeding if you aren't doing so while introducing solids.
This is in line with the UK and the US
and it's use of the word about and around, which
are in all three of those guidelines. That's like, so,
what's that like. That's very open to interpretation. It's quite
an ambiguous word because it says not before four months.

(13:11):
Like I've always been like, oh, okay, well that's sort
of a window between four and six months. And the
old guidelines did actually used to say between four and
six months. So they have changed them and they've changed
the wording, but it is still quite ambiguous. I think
one thing you've got to remember is every baby develops
at a slightly different rate. You can't be like, okay,
like six months on the dot, every baby is going

(13:31):
to be ready to start solids. It's just not like that.
So you know, that is part of the issue around
it is the wording. People that are strong advocates for
not before six months months are the ones that look
at the World Health Organization because World Health Organization says
at six months, they don't mention four months. They don't
use the word around or about. But it is also
important to remember that the World Health Organization caters to

(13:52):
the whole world, so we are also talking about third
world countries. The thing with solids is as soon as
you start to introduce solid you are also potentially introducing
food borne illness. So there is a higher risk because
obviously when you breastfeed or you prepare formula, it's quite
a sterile process. Whereas you know you are potentially you know,
there's they can be bugs and listeria, et cetera in

(14:13):
the food that you're offering. You know, water supply, et cetera.
That all can play a part in it. And so
what they're trying to say in you know, particularly in
third world countries, are like, we'd prefer to, you know,
push it out a little bit longer because their immune
system is going to be further along. A six month
old immune system is going to be more developed than
a four month old immune system, so in prefer to weight.
So it is important to remember that, you know, That's

(14:35):
why I do say you should really follow the guidelines
for your country, because it's based on your food supply,
et cetera. In saying that, though, I definitely like, you know,
I hear you know, parents are telling me, and I
do think often there is like pediatricians et cetera that
are a bit more you know, pushy towards four months
they sometimes are only seen, you know, the baby for
a fifteen minute, you know stint, and we'll be like, oh, yep,

(14:57):
I think that you know they you know they net
control looks good. That's fine, Like you should get started
on solids at the end of the day. You know
your baby best. So we always talk about, you know,
the signs of readiness, and the number one sign is
always going to be that strong head and neck control,
because if they've still got a floppy neck, there's the
potential for choking, which is obviously one of the number
one things we want to avoid. So you know, making

(15:17):
sure they have that strong neck control. You can improve
that by just practicing tummy time. In saying that, I
don't expect, for example, you to put Bob in the
middle of the floor with no support whatsoever, and they
can completely hold themselves up right. But if you were
to put them, say in a high chair, where there's
obviously a little bit of support, they can hold themselves
up right because they have that you know, head and
neck control. Some babies obviously are a bit smaller, so

(15:40):
they'll slide around the chair. I always just say, you know,
get like a towel, roll it into a snake wrap
it around their trunk. It'll just help give them a
bit more support in there. And then things like you know,
reaching for food, showing an interest in food. I'm sure
you probably noticed this, like when you were eating Teddy
would suddenly become interested and like want to grab what
you were eating to Definitely you know that increased interest
and awareness is starting to come along, but they're going

(16:01):
to be more secondary to that head and net control.
So I always say, look between that four and six
month mark, when you're seeing those signs, you wouldn't start.
Even if your baby was a week before four months
and you're like, oh, they're showing the signs, do not start.
They're definitely not ready. But from four months it's then
really also up to you. You need to say. Some
people are really excited and like I can't wait to

(16:21):
start solids, and some people are like, ah, I want
to push this out as long as possible. So it
also is what works, what works best for you. The
one thing to remember that we can't see from the
outset is their digestive system, and so that one of
the arguments for starting like more towards six months is
people saying, well, their digestive systems are not ready, so
you know, and again they're all going to develop at

(16:43):
a slightly different rate. But say your baby's you know,
five months old, they're showing all the signs of readiness,
and you give them a little bit of food because
you think they're ready. If their stomach became like really
you know, tight and just stand and they became like
gassy and uncomfortable and you know it seemed quite unsettled,
that would suggest to me that they're digestive systems not
quite ready, and I would leave it for a week
or two and then come back and try again. But unfortunately,

(17:05):
that's one sign that you can't see from the outset,
and that's just going to be a bit of trial
and error. But on the same token, some babies at
four and a half months, the digestive system will be
ready and so it's all fine to you know, push ahead.
So I definitely think lately i've felt there's more of
a move towards closer to six months. But I definitely
hear of people being like, yeah, they see the doctor

(17:26):
at four months and or they do the four month
injections and the doctor's like, yep, cool, you can go
get started now, And they're like, oh, I don't know
if I feel like we're ready yet. You know your
baby best, trust your own intuition. I think, don't yeah,
don't feel pressured, but I you know, it's definitely a
changing school of thought. And you've got to remember, like
especially GPS, like they probably see adults and whatever, they're
not constantly seeing babies. So you've got to you know

(17:48):
your baby best. No one knows your baby better than you.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
I love how like my approach is always kind of
look at what the overarching information is, which is like
the window, the four to six month window, Then look
at what your baby's doing, and then look at overlay
your preferences over the top of that. So I kind
of do those three things. It's like Teddy wasn't showing
any interest. He had neck control from four months, but
no interest whatsoever. So I was like, well, he's not

(18:10):
ready yet. Then about five months there was interest, but
we kind of weren't ready because we were overseas, and
I was like, that's not the right time then. So
then I thought, well, once we've got all three of
those things lighting up, that's when we start. And it
ended up just being a little bit before it was
like five and a half. And I think the other
thing is when people say when are you starting solids?

(18:32):
You're not giving him like a beef sausage roll on
day one. You know, you're just sort of like putting
a tiny bit of stuff on his tongue. Like it
takes a really long time before they swallow properly, so
you know, you kind of that first little bit is
it's all trial and errort, the biding, So I think,
you know it's okay to let them start just working
out what stuff in their mouth is. Like the first

(18:53):
day there was a spoon in his mouth.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Teddy was like, what is it?

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Get this out of my face?

Speaker 2 (18:56):
And yeah, you're so right. Like I also say to
people like, I mean I didn't a couple of years
obviously with COVID, but I was like, if you're traveling overseas,
probably not the right time, just like because you know,
also if you're introducing and when you start to inchuse
allergens and stuff like, you want to be able to
get to the hospital and things like that, so like
they're really important things to consider if you're in the
middle of Italy, which is I think where you went
quite around that time. Yeah, you're not going to be like,

(19:17):
oh so now I need to find the hospital because
my chil's had a reaction like yeah, you want to
be in you know, your comfort zone. So there's all
those factors to consider in saying that. If your baby
is approaching seven months, I'd be like, okay, like let's
check in make sure there's not something else going on.
If they're not interested, it could be like an undiagnosed
tongue tie, So let's just like get that sorted. But yeah,
aside from that, like your approach is like one hundred

(19:39):
percent the way that I would go.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
And what about I found it kind of confusing to
work out what is the first meal to add? So
is it brecky then lunch than dinner or it doesn't
matter what the order is or I mean, firstly, you
don't really start with a full meal anyway, but like
what time of day and then do you build up
to full meals? How do you? Or is that also
a personal preference thing?

Speaker 2 (19:59):
No, that's a really great question. So because you know,
all new foods are something that they haven't had before.
Although we have the allergens, they're the foods that are
responsible for ninety percent of allergies worldwide. But any food
could cause an allergy or an intolerance or some kind
of reaction. So we always generally recommend a new food
in the first half of the day, ideally, you know,
after that first nap of the day. The reason being

(20:21):
that you want them to be awake, ideally for two hours,
so you can just so like you want them to
be at the beginning of their awake windows so you
can watch and observe them for any adverse reaction. So
I usually find breakfast. However, you don't even need to
think about it as breakfast as such, because you could
offer veggies and beef or whatever. It doesn't need to
be like cereal like it. Don't think about it like

(20:41):
it has to be like our you know, breakfast is
generally sweet and whatever it is, it doesn't matter what
it is. So I usually do start with breakfast or
as the first meal of the day. Usually just do
one meal or one offering a food for a month,
and then after a month you would add a second meal.
Doesn't really matter where you add that second meal. Sometimes
it's what's practical, Like if you're going to be out

(21:01):
in the middle of the day. Maybe that doesn't work,
or you know, you might be like I want to
do a din like do like morning and then dinner time,
and then I'll add the lunch in, So it doesn't
matter what old I'd just always start with the first
first half of the day, like just so you can
watch for any adverse reactions. Then once they've had you know,
for example, that food, it's fine for that then to
become like a dinner time food, and then you can

(21:23):
you know, move your new things to the first half
of the day.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, and then what about I found this really difficult
and I still sometimes do. Actually, is how do you
know how much perserve? And then how do you know
when they're full? Because some babies will just keep eating
past full. Some babies even if they're not full. You
have to kind of like encourage them. And I still
find it even on an evolving basis, like how is

(21:47):
his appetite grown? I don't know how much to add
to each serving? Like how do you kind of work
all that out?

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Such a great question. So look, when you start, like
I would just be you know, they might only take
a tea spoon and that is absolutely fine. As you said,
it's like just trying it out. Like you will always
start with giving the milk feed first initially, so you're
going to do your breastfeed or your formula feed. Wait
about half an hour, give you solid feed. So they're
just getting used to it. It's definitely not dominant. So
what you'd start to do is you start to like

(22:14):
learn their cues so like so it can take six
weeks do they get to the point that they have
like half a cup. So I'd definitely be starting with
small amounts, and that's why we do like the really
small cubes, so who can build up how much you offer.
But similarly, if you're making the food yourself, I'd recommend
doing like an ice cube trace so you can build
the amounts that you offer, because they will start probably
start with half a tea spoon, and then it'll move
up and you'll get to half a cup. But you'll

(22:35):
just start to work out their cues. So for example,
if you're feeding, you know you're feeding Teddy and you've
got through what you had, say defrosted or made for him,
and he's like you're done with it, and you're like
he's looking around for more, or he cries when you
take away the ball, or he's reaching for more more
like reaching out as if he wants more, Like that
would suggest to me he wants more food, Whereas on
the flip side, if he's like, you know, you're midway

(22:58):
through what you've like put out, and he is like,
you know, getting distracted, he's trying to pull off his bib,
he's trying to climb out of the high chair, he's crying.
He's like he's just lost interest. Just leave it. And
it's hard, especially if you've like slaved or data make
a beautiful meal. And we do have this habit of
being like come on, and I like, as a babysitter,
I've been like, come on, one more mouthful, But like, babies

(23:18):
have this amazing ability to regulate their own appetite. You
if you're breastfeeding, you know, like they cry when they're hungry,
and they stop feeding when they've had enough, and if
you're not feeding them from a bottle, you have no
idea how that much they've had. You're just like, Okay,
they've had enough, and like like they know, so like
trust them to regulate it. And it can be frustrating
because it's definitely goes in waves. You'll be like, I

(23:39):
feel like this kid will like never stop eating, Like
I could just like keep feeding him. And people say,
like to me, they're like, do I like stop any time?
I always say, the only time you would do? Like,
sometimes babies eat so fast that their brain like can't
get in touch with like when they're.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Full, like us adults do that too. I'm like, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yes, So if you do, fine, you think they're doing that,
and particularly if they get to the point where they
like throw up, that suggests they've eaten too much. So
what you might need to do is just slow down
the feeding, like you know, just allow a lot of
a pause, like slow them down, maybe try and give
them some kind of destruction or give them the spoon
to like be chewing on or something, just so that
you can slow down the rate at which they're eating

(24:19):
so that they have time for their brain to like realize, oh,
actually I'm full. But that would only be if they
getting to the point where they're basically overeating to the
point where they throw up. Otherwise there will be days
where they're just really hungry, you know, Like I know
some people have like those wonder Week's apps, et cetera,
where it says like they're going through a gross bert
now and they might be eating more, and then they'll
go through stages where like particularly if they're teething, like

(24:41):
that can really put them off their appetite and they
might just want to have like breastfeed or you know,
formula feed. And that's fine as well, Like it's going
to be like that, but inevitably you're like, oh, you know,
yesterday we ate so much, like why are they not eating?
They must be hungry, And we develop this expectation, but
it will it will vary from day to day. Like
I always just encourage people to try and keep up
like a monthly way in ideally on the same scales

(25:03):
and just you know, I know, I forgot what the
color of the book is in Melbourne but green in
South Wales. Yeah, so there's a blue book and you
have the plot in chart and just to plot, make
sure you're keeping like a regular rate on the growth
chart so that you can see if they move up
or down a line. The only time we start to
get worried is if they drop down two lines. Other
than that, you know they're going to sort of go up.

(25:24):
They might move a little bit and that's absolutely fine.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, amazing, And I think that's one of the things
that's been really hard but also good to remember with Teddy,
is it all that matters. It doesn't matter what he
is compared to anyone else's age. It matters what he
is compared to his percentiles, his whole life. Like you
just need to stay in the window that your baby is.
You're not trying to like it's you know, you're constantly
looking around at what other mums are doing and other

(25:48):
babies are eating, and they're all just figuring out at
different rates. Like some kids that I know at the
same age, we're eating lamptops when Teddy was still on
pures and then some kids were still on breastmet or
formula and they hadn't even started. And you get, really
it's really hard to just focus down on what your
green book or blue book trends are doing. Like that's
where you really need to focus.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
It's so true, and I always really like to remind people,
like you're running your own race. It's really hard. Like
I think, you know, comparison can be the source of
evil because you can be like, you know, little Freddy
Freddy next door was born on exactly the same day
as Teddy and he's doing this or you know, and
you're like, but there's always going to be, you know,
a couple of months buffer. Even with those milestones that
babies need to meet, there's always going to be you know,

(26:30):
a couple of months buffer in them hitting those milestones.
So like, just try not to compare, because it can
send you a little bit crazy and you're like, oh, no,
like there's something wrong. But as I said, like at
seven months, if there was not a not a bite
being taken, yes, I'd be like, please just check in
that something else is not going on. But aside from that,
you know, there there's always going to be a buffer time.
So you know, be gentle, be kind to yourself. And

(26:51):
even like when you have subsequent children, people will be like, oh, well,
my firstborn didn't do that, Like you know what I mean,
And you compare to your own they're running their own race.
Be guided by them, might trust them and it'll make
you a lot calmer. But it's look as easier said
than time.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Are there any other broad guidelines And this is a
very selfish question for this particular chapter of my solids journey,
but are there any other guidelines on volumes by particular months,
Like you know, if you haven't started at all by
seven months, then that's kind of a clear guideline. But
is it like you should be at three meals by
this time, or you should be at x amount of

(27:28):
like big morsels, like you should have gone from pures
to like chunks, Like where does that all kind of sit?
Is it anywhere we can look for those guidelines?

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Sure, Look there's a bit like look, there's some rough
guidelines around that. So what we usually would say, so
you know, if you're going to do pures, you start
off with always start off with like a really smooth,
consistency pure and you would do that for about a month.
So usually you know, if you start obviously five months,
by six months you might be moving to slightly chunkier
But usually we'd say, you know, so by eight to

(27:56):
nine months, you'd expect that they would have got to
the point of having three meals per day, and they
really should be getting to the point where they're able
if they've done puis, they're able to handle quite a textured,
you know, very chunky pure slash finger food. So ultimately,
if you've done baby lead weaning, which we'll go into
I'm sure in a second, but or pureise ultimately, by

(28:16):
the time that they're nine months, they really converge like
they would both be able to handle finger foods. So yeah,
like nine months is what I say. By nine months,
i'd really expect Bubby's having three meals per day and
you know, is able to handle finger foods. There's no
reason why you can't still be giving them, you know, pures,
et cetera. But they're definitely able to handle like little
sandwiches and little pieces of soft, soft finger food by

(28:38):
that point. The way that you get there, I usually
find it's easier just to do one meal. Say you
started let's say six months, two meals at seven months,
three meals at eight months, so you're actually there at
eight months. Otherwise, if you start a bit early, you
might do you know, one meal at five months, two
meals at six months, three meals at seven months, so
just one month, one month, one month, so it's a
gradual step up. Some people that start at four months,

(28:59):
I just they don't add your second meal until they're
six months. And the reason that that's important is that
obviously as they start to take more and more solid
food in it will start to impact the amount of
milk that they have, and we just don't want to
like decrease the amount of milk that they're having too quickly. Obviously,
it's a very specific makeup for their development. You know,
it's got all of the nutrients and minerals as well

(29:21):
as you know, energy breakdown that's perfect for their growth,
and we just don't want to cut into that too quickly.
It's as well as having immunological benefits. So I just say, look,
don't get to like I know people that are like, oh,
I'm at three meals at six months and they're like
so happy, and I'm like, you know what, just pull
it back a bit, like just not because otherwise, you know,
some babies will be like I'm done, Like I'm over
the milk. And like when people sometimes do reach out

(29:43):
to me and be like, oh, they're not really taking
their milk, I'm like, you know what, they're probably just
having so much solids that they don't need it. It's
usually also at that point, like you know that eight
to nine month mark where you're at, and it might
be seven months that you get to three meals per day,
but usually I say it eight months, we start to
swap it over and start to give solid food before
the milk. So initially you'll be starting off with always

(30:04):
giving milk waiting about half an hour. But then at
eight months, which is usually lines up with when they're
having three meals per day, that's when we swap and
we give the solid food first and wait about half
an hour and then give the milk. And then you know,
because then you're basically what happens is, you know, as
you gradually increase the solids, you gradually reduce the milk.
It's just like this crossover. And so then obviously solids

(30:25):
will start to become more and more dominant. So in
terms of yeah, that's sort of the guidelines. And then yeah,
nine months, you'd really expect that whether or not you've
done baby led winning on pures, they're able to handle
some finger foods. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Oh that's so useful. And I also was going to
ask that milk first versus second question as well, So
thank you so much for answering that in terms of
their preference. So I had a question from someone who
has a ten month old who's still not overly interested
and still sometimes gags, and I find Teddy has quite
a sensitive gag reflex when he doesn't like something. So

(30:58):
rather than just like push you get a way straight away,
he will try it, and he'll try it quite a
few times, even if he recognizes the food. But then
he'll he'll gag. So, firstly, how do you know when
they're really rejecting food because they don't like it or
just because it's foreign. And how many times would you
like keep trying that food. Would you wait a month
or would you wait a week, or would you just

(31:18):
conclude like they don't like this thing.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, this is a good one. Look at the end
of the day, like it is a learning process and
they're going from having like they're born with the preference
for sweet food. Then they have milk for you know,
how ever many months and it's sweet and delicious, and
then suddenly you're like, here's broccoli, like and they do
have a very you know, their gag reflex is one
much closer to the you know, the surface. But yeah,

(31:43):
they can actually just gag on foods they don't like
some of them. It's just about like a learning process.
So we say, like, you know, it can take twenty
times for them to like it. Insaying that you're not
going to go and give like, yeah, twenty consecutive tryes.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Wow, I've given up way earlier.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, And people do because they're like I just want
them to eat something like, but you're not going to
do twenty days, Like that's just torture for the child,
Like you do, Like say you do two days of gout,
You're like, okay, I'd just be like, let's leave it,
come back to it in two weeks and circle background
to it and just try again. It's just like a
try again, try again. Giving something with like something you
know that they like also can help, like increase familiarity.

(32:21):
So like if say they love pumpkin but they're not
loving broccoli, like offering the pumpkin with the broccoli, whether
that's mixed together as pure or like, you know, giving
the two things.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
I love that you use those two because that's how
I got him to eat broccoli is with pumpkins, because
that was the first booth that he loved. I was like, Oh,
this is the same pumpkin you have every day. What
do you mean?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, look, pumpkin sweet, delicious love or usually pretty well tolerated.
Broccoli obviously bitter and like not nearly as you know,
yummy as your pumpkins. So it is that it's just
getting them used to those slightly bitter foods. And like
I mean, I always use the example, but like when
I was younger, I didn't like wine. Well now I
like wine, like you know, like it's those flavors. But
it's like those you know, they need to develop taste

(33:01):
for things that they're not used to, and so like
bitter and you know, sour and all of these things.
It's just a new experience and some will take longer.
But unfortunately it is a persistence and doing courages, doing
little small amounts. We don't go and cook a whole
head of broccoli and be like, okay, well we can
I like broccoli, because you could be throwing out a
lot of food.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Well, that's also another question that came up about, you know,
the bitters and then the like tart foods and the
kind of categories of things. Is there a specific order
of the type of food that you recommend introducing or
specific foods by a certain age. And I think that
you recommended to me, like pumpkin and sweet potato were
the very first things that we tried at all like

(33:42):
I wouldn't have gone in with broccoli because I feel
like it just wouldn't have gone Well, do you have
an order that you suggest.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
I usually go more flavor neutral first, so avocado or
zecchini as one like that, I often will go for it.
There's no heart and fast, but I definitely I would
not give fruit first, Like I'm a hard veggies first gal.
Like there is increasing research coming out to show the
benefits of giving veggies first, just because of that the
baby sweet preference, and in the UK their guidelines actually

(34:09):
even say like dark leafy greens first, So I'd usually
go like zucchini, which is also a good texture for
a pure point of view, it's quite watery, so it's
usually quite good for that. Avocado very flavor neutral, also
usually really well tolerated, so they're usually my first two.
I then actually got a bit more savory, and then
I would go sweeter veggies. But there's no heart and fast,

(34:31):
but I just do veggies first, to as many veggies
as you can first before you start to introduce fruits,
So like sometimes I say like avocado, zucchini, then you
might go to like your broccoli and then move to
your pumpkin and stuff. Sometimes people like often people do
pumpkin first. It's a very common first food, and like
it's not as sweet as like sweet potato, and then
doing things like yeah, you're sweet. You carry all of

(34:52):
those and then I would do, you know, you start
to add the fruits in there some way. You also
want to start to add the meat, but I wouldn't
give you meat probably not the first thing I would give.
Meat doesn't if you're not adding flavoring, doesn't have a
whole lot of flavor, like, it's just like meaty like,
So I usually would say, you know, incorporate the meat
with like the veggies. So do a few veggies and
then you can start adding the meat to it. One

(35:12):
thing I just always say is I really encourage people
not to mix the fruit into the savory because it's
easy to do and the likelihood is they will, you know,
eat it so quickly and they'll love it. But it's
a false sense of you know, what flavors should taste like.
And that's like obviously one of the really big criticisms
of the pouches and stuff. You know, you you look,
if you read the back of the pouch, it's like
it says, it's like a you know, a chicken whatever

(35:33):
pouch and then you know, chicken's like seven percent and
apples like the first ingredient. Yeah yeah, you're like yeah,
so yeah. Then you're like, why won't they eat my
chicken and you know whatever that I've made them. It's
because they're they're used to this sweetned you know, sense
of safety, so you want them to learn to like
savory foods. But it is a learning process. It's because

(35:53):
they have that sweet preference. They've had all this sweet
food In terms of things like you're tard and you're sour,
You'll just gradually start to incorporate those, you know, like
you might offer some yogan and just do like a
full fat Greek yogurt. I wouldn't recommend like a sweeten one.
So that's obviously going to be quite tight, but there's
no hard rules about that. I'd just usually say savory
before sweet, so savory before sweet, and then just starting

(36:14):
to incorporate meat. I mean, giving a baby like a
slice of lemon is one of the funniest, fewdest things
you'll ever watch. I don't know if you've done it, yea,
we did.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
It was really.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Like that because it takes them a second that.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Oh my god, it's so cute. And I mean, if
anyone is listening who hasn't started their Solar's journey yet
and is doing this is kind of their introduction. By
this point, it will already be sounding quite overwhelming how
many different things there are to make. And this is
why nourishing Bubs has been so revolutionary for us, because
if you're doing it on your own, you're having to
prepare a lot of different foods in random volumes, in

(36:51):
an all different like you're trying to mix lots of
different things. There's so much food wastage. So having the
baby's first food pack that has all of these pre
prepared snap frozen, like in one big pack, little cubes
of all of these veggies, and then separate packs for
the fruits so that you can just kind of mix
and match and play and not waste and it's already

(37:12):
done for you. Like, I can't even explain at this
point how much the whole process was simplified by you
giving us all this information but then saying and here
here is the tools to do that introduction.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
I couldn't have said it better for myself. Yeah, I
wanted to be like, here's the tools, here's what you need.
You're still in control, you're still the chef, you can
put together what you want. But like here it is.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yeah, that ability to know that there was not anything
in those cubes other than what I would have prepared
for myself, except that I didn't have to prepare it.
But then I don't have to feel guilty for it
because there isn't anything ad it. It's just that revolutionary.
But I also wanted to ask, so we did have
another question about the types of foods. Is it true?
And I think I know the answer to this one.

(37:54):
Is it true that there's a window to try those
new foods between six and seven months? Like every kind
of made your new food needs to be introduced at
a particular time. Is there an optical time or are
you just constantly reintroducing, not reintroducing, but sorry, constantly adding No,
it's not that tight, Like.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
I wouldn't say it's that tight, it's step. Look, they
say that the window is really the first two years
of life, so you do have time, like because some
people will be like, oh, I started with you know,
they will start with food and then I'll they'll come
to a talk and they'll be like, oh, eek, I
already started with fruit, have I like stuffed it up already.
But the reality is that they talk about like the
window from having baby ingestation to at the end of

(38:32):
the two years, so they call it the first thousand days,
and that really is your window of opportunity to expose
them to as many flavors as possible. Like the reality
is you can't I usually say, one new food a day,
especially for the first two to four weeks, so you
know you're gonna get thirty foods maybe, like so you
can't expose them to everything in a month period, So
you definitely have some time. But you know those years

(38:54):
of life are when they're like without sounding manipulative, but
their brain's most like malleable, most influential. So if you
can like really plant those seeds, lay those foundations for
healthy eating, the reality is, you know, at three they
might be really difficult eaters, but if they have, like
you've laid those foundations, the likelihood is they will come
back around to being good eaters. Like the amount of

(39:15):
people that are like my baby was such a great eater,
like from you know, six to twelve months and then
suddenly we've like fallen off a cliff. But you know,
they do come back around. If you've like really put
the effort into to expose them to as many new
foods and as many new flavors as possible. You know
that is really important for them. So you know, it
is important also to make a really conscious effort to
expose them to different foods, like don't be giving them

(39:36):
carrot every day, don't be giving them pumpkin every day. Also,
you know, if you don't like a food, you still
want to try and introduce them like we obviously.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, that's really hard, Like.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
I'm like, oh, I don't eat capsicums, so we don't
have caps com in well you know what I mean. Like,
and they're not going to expose to these great foods
and so they're naturally their flavors are shaped by what
the foods that you choose to eat. But you know,
we really want to try and make sure we can
get as many as many foods in as possible.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
I found that one of the hardest things is to
expose him because we're very exploratory. We love exploring, adventurous
when we eat, but like at home, where such creatures
of habit, and I found it really hard to keep
Teddy's palette exposed to things beyond our habitual routine at home.

(40:22):
And I think I am like definitely now even listening
to you, I'm like, oh my god, I really need
to stop just beating him the same thing that I
know he loves every day at the same meals because
it's easy and because I know he likes it, and
because it gets the calories in. But yeah, that was
a really good reminder for me.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
People do it, Yeah, because so if you know they're
going to eat it, you're like or you're like, oh,
I want to give them something they eat. The best
way is just to keep, you know, have something as
a guarantee they'll eat, and then just something new and
something you know that's a bit more like, oh, I
don't know if they're going to like be into this,
but something safe and something new can be the way
to just help combat that.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, I love that. So moving on to the next section,
like broad section, which is another thing that I think
is really divisive at the beginning less so, as you mentioned,
when it kind of ends up converging, but there's we've
done this sort of when but then there's a decision
of how you're going to start solids, and there's kind
of a lot of options and obviously there's a lot
of experimentation within each area. Or you can just kind

(41:15):
of like you don't have to put labels on everything necessarily,
you can just kind of start. But in terms of
what you'll read when you first go out to read
up on starting solids, there's kind of a few methods
that come out, and you know, people who are more
familiar will start using acronyms like BLW and I think
new mums are just like, what the hell is that
and what does that all mean? So can you take

(41:37):
us through the how what the landscape looks like when
nourishing bubs fits into that? What mixed feeding is, you know,
like what kind of the options are for someone who's
at the very beginning and it's just like lay this
out in a diagram.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yes, So, as you said that, we really sort of
talk about there's now like two main Initially back in
the day, it used to just be pure. We call
it i'd call pure like more traditional feeding approach. You
move on to pure. As you start with a smooth pure,
you start to graduate the texture as time goes on
and ultimately, by about nine months, you'd get to the
point where baby's having finger food. So you'll move from

(42:11):
a smooth pure after a month, he'd make it a
bit more textured. After another month he'd make it more
like a minced texture, and then you get to more
like a risotto and a finger food. So it's a
gradual process. That's why you know, if you're buying patches
or something, they also have you know, stage textures, et cetera.
So you've probably seen that before. The more newer method
is called Baby Led Winning BLW, and what it is

(42:33):
it was developed by a woman called a Dual WRAPI
and she basically it's a whole concept where you really
skip the pure stage altogether and you go straight into
giving baby finger foods. The reason that it has gained
popularity is one because it really leans into this whole
concept that you know, as I said before, babies have
a really amazing appetite control, and so it allows them

(42:55):
to really lead by you know, their feeding themselves. So
you put the food on their plate and then they
pick up and feed themselves. So as I said before,
we do have a bit of a habit of if
we've made this beautiful meal. We're like, come on, one
more mouthful. Whereas you know with baby lead Winning, they're
like picking it up themselves. So when they've lost interest
and they're over it, you just you move on with
the finger foods. Obviously people like, oh, but like how

(43:16):
you know how often they won't have teeth when you
start solids, you need to make sure that you're cooking
them till they're really really soft. So you know, we
talk about the squish test, so being able to squash
it easily between your finger and your thumb so that
they can squash it between the palette and tongue of
their mouth, particularly if they've got no teeth. It is
quite amazing what a baby can gum when they like

(43:37):
how they get through that, Like I'm just like shocked,
Like their gums are really quite strong. So you know,
it's making sure it's cooked until it's really soft. And
then again, if you're doing baby lead winning, you as
time goes on, you start to reduce the amount you
know you're cooking food so that it does become a
little bit firm, and you're building up the resistance because
ultimately having to chew on foods is what starts to

(43:58):
develop the jaws, the the muscles in their jaw and
will be ultimately involved in speech. So it is important
whether you're doing baby lead winning or purease, that you
are graduating the texture. Obviously with something like a lamb chop,
like and I feel like the lamb chop is the
most cliche into baby lead winning. You have like a
six month old holding the lamb chop and you're like,
but how do they manage that? They've got no teeth?

(44:19):
But they'll like suck the goodness out of it, and
you can let there are pictures where you see and
like the lamb CHOP's basically gone gray because they actually
like supple the new tunes. You're like, that's gross and weird,
and like did they get anything out of it? But
surprisingly they do. It is all about, you know, with
baby lead winning, like bigger is better, particularly when you're starting.
Otherwise they do have a habit of just like trying

(44:39):
to swallow the whole thing, particularly if it's a small piece.
So you know, a lamb chop is good or something
that they can hold easily. We talk about you know,
cutting it so that it's about the size of two fingers.
So if you're cutting you know, made some steak, cut
it into a slice, it's about the size of two fingers,
you know, steamsticks of carrot, florets of broccoli, coulieflowered things
that they can pick up easily because they pincy group

(45:00):
is not developed, so it's harder for them to pick
it up, so they need to like pick it up
with their playing a grip. So yeah, just always thinking
about the shape you're offering them. As time goes on
and they get more towards like nine months old, you
can start cutting it smaller because they've sort of learned
how to handle it. But yeah, initially they'll just want
to put the whole thing in their mouth. So you
want to give them something big so that they're forced

(45:21):
to like bite it like a chicken. Drumstick is also
a good example, because they have to hold it and like,
you know, sort of chew at it so that they're
you know, don't choke. But you know, I think understandably, people,
particularly first time parents, terrified at baby lad winning, so
I definitely see it more common in second time parents
because of that fear of choking, understandably, and then your

(45:41):
little one always wants to copy what their oldest sibling
is doing, so that's why it does become more popular.
But I'm a really big advocate of a combination approach
because every baby is different. Some babies like really like
the independence quite early on have been able to feed themselves,
and obviously, you know, baby lad winning is a more
independent they're feeding themselves, they're really taking control in saying

(46:02):
that you can do pures with baby lead winning. So
if you like loaded the spoon and then give them
the spoon, that's a method of baby lead weening. It's
just yeah, it's basically just giving them the control and
whether or not you're doing you know, purese or baby
lead winning, and do encourage you to learn baby's Q
and try not to as hard as it is, be like,
come on, one more mouthful, because then you're pushing past

(46:23):
their appetite cues. Obviously, we do a lot of pures,
so you know, I would say we do more fit
into the pure side. But you know, the pureise can
also be used to make things like you know, use
the veggie pures to make little fritters and things like that,
So the pures can definitely be used in baby lead weaning,
but I would say it does cater more towards that
more traditional approach. If you are starting solids a little

(46:46):
bit earlier than six months, I usually say don't start
baby lead winning until six months just because their like
hand eye coordination is usually not quite there until six months.
So usually if you did want to start a bit early,
it's easier just to do pureis maybe for a couple
of weeks and then try baby lead win in from
six months. But otherwise you can also do things like
offer you know, a pure and like a finger. You

(47:07):
could offer like broccoli pure and a piece of broccoli
at the same meal, or some people will do like
one meal, they'll do as pures, and then they might
do like they might be out and about so they
want to do little finger foods and that's easier for them.
So it is again what really works for you, because
you'll find, you know, and some babies just prefer to
be spoon fed, and some babies do like that independence.
So it's yeah, and also it's up to what you're comfortable.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Teddy loves being spoon fed still.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Now, yeah, so it's it's and it's also one dred
percent what you're comfortable with some people Like I'm just
not I'm not ready for it. I'm not ready for that.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Like, I mean, it's a lot messier. Baby lead winning
is definitely because they're just dropping stuff and it's going
on the like they're using their hands, so it's everywhere.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
I mean, it's all messy. But yeah, it definitely is
a lot messier. The only thing is just be careful
of there's like Facebook groups I know where they're like
hard advocates of baby lad weening and if you even
mentioned pure's apparently you get like blocked and wall it's
a bit like politic Like it's like very political. Yeah,
I know, like many other you know, feeding specialists that

(48:12):
are like yeah, no, Like I like a combination approach,
work out what works best, and it's again, it's what
works best for you and your family and your baby
and your comfort level. As long as you're graduating the texture,
it's just the most important thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
I found it really interesting that there was such a
division between the methods when I felt like we just
kind of did something that was a bit of a
mix of all. But I'm like, aren't they all just
the same thing? Like, aren't they all just feeding your
baby like I didn't. I can't believe that's the division,
but it is quite separate.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
It is crazy. I mean, hopefully I think it is
leveling out a little bit now. But initially, when it
was a bit more like early and new and like trendy,
it was like this, yeah, like I do think baby
led whining people think some more trendy like yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
It's quite enlightened that they're you know, feeding that the
baby has control. Do they have utensils? Like you are
you aiming to get them to use their spoon or
is it just hands or is it kind of whatever?

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Not Necessarily, it's absolutely fine for them just to just
to use. Initially you'd just be using the hands. I
think from you know, twelve months, you would start to
offer them more of the utensils, but you know, initially
you would just be starting with the you know, if
you're doing pures, you could, as I said, give them
the preloaded spoon. I wouldn't be like, oh, let them
just like scoop into the pureid, you know, I would
it just hands. Initially it's the spoon and the fork.

(49:30):
Like even that is like it's like how do I
get that into my mouth? Yeah, so just getting the
because even and one of the benefits they say, baby
led winning, is it like promotes this, like you know,
self confidence, because we do have a habit. If they're
like they get it into the mouth, we're like, well done.
Yeah you like cheer like, so there is that aspect

(49:51):
of it. But yeah, the cutlery not Yeah, you don't
need to start adding the cutlery really until like you know,
ten twelve months, So laid it down the track. Just
get get the food.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Someone asked about recommendations on starting spoons and utensils. You
actually have them at nourishing bubbs, don't you, And they're
like beautiful and rubbery and.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Yeah, so silicon, you definitely want to go for a
silicon over a like a metal for a couple of reasons.
So the metal obviously feels a bit different in their mouth.
It also picks up on the temperature of the food,
like if it's hot food, you know, the metal will
become quite hot, whereas silicon also doubles as a bit
of a teather for them. So like one habit that
I also often like mention to people is like if

(50:29):
you're finding they want to become a bit independent but
it's like not really going anywhere. Like you give them
a spoon, and you have a spoon and then they
can like put it in their mouth, and often if
they're like, you know, getting some teeth, they'll like want
to that. This why Sophia the draft so popular because
it gets to the back and like that just so
they'll just chew on it, Like the utensils is just
as much about like teething as it is about getting

(50:49):
the food in so but otherwise, look, honestly, just like
a little a small like shallow bowl. Silicon is the
perfect option. Plenty of options available at you know, you
chemes do your supermarket.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
And when would you say, I mean, you mentioned it before,
but I've forgotten already. When would you say that the
methods kind of converge and all babies would be doing
a similar thing, Like you wouldn't be dividing the two methods.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
So nine months is really when I would say, you know,
even if you've done pures, they should be able to
start to end or finger foods at that point. So
you know, some people like, yes, I've done baby led
winning my baby is so ahead of the pack. But
like ultimately at nine months, you wouldn't know who's done
what it just you might still be giving like some
well textured you know, things like risotto type texture, you know,
thick textured pures as well, but they are still also

(51:32):
having finger foods, and it would just be you know,
meal dependent maybe like they get a little smallers bought
at breakfast, but you're still you know, they're having a
bit more of like a pasta or something with a sauce.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
So just outing myself, guys, Teddy definitely still gets spoon
fed quite a lot of his meal, but he also
gets in the same meal things that he can eat
by himself. Like I'll cut up a roast chicken and
like you'll have lots of little bits of chicken to
put in his mouth. But then I'll also give him
a mash of sweet potato and boccado and something else,
and like often he'll have some in his mouth and

(52:04):
then I will give him a pre loaded spoon, but
I will also be spoon feeding him as well. So
when should you not be spoon feeding or does that?
Is that not there's no timeline when.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah, look, there's no like hard and fast rule as
long as he has the skill and it sounds like
he has the skill, the skill, he just.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Doesn't love it. It's like, but you do it better, Mum.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Yeah, I think, you know, as time goes on, and
definitely as he look, it's more it'll more be like
when he starts to if he's going to daycare or something,
they'll probably not be spoon feeding him, so I'll be like, yeah, buddy, like, no,
we don't spoon feed you here. So yeah, I mean,
you know, as he gets into those toddler years, he
will definitely I think you'll find that you can sort
of step away from the spoon feeding but just often

(52:45):
more less foods that require probably spoon feeding. But you know,
I think also as you do get into more of
those toddler and like two three, you know, it is
also easier just to give them more like finger food
type options that really don't require like spoon feeding as such.
That's definitely the area. Also, like we know that parents
want product and we're trying to sort of move into
as well, because I think finger foods. Finger foods are

(53:07):
such a big area and people like and they also
like the independence then though, so they want things that
are like pick up little meatball and pick up you know,
little things like that, And I think that's when the
smorgas board type option, like, I mean, they get fed
so well, like a bit of fruit and a bit
of veggie and a bit of you know, a bit
of protein, and they get all these little things beautifully

(53:29):
like presented to them like little kings.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Little kings, absolutely a little king. Oh my gosh. Well,
the last question on this section was with baby like winning. Initially,
it's really hard to know if anything's going in like
similar with the breast milk thing. You can't actually measure
how much they're eating because I for a lot it's
being spilt out, Like how do you make sure they're
getting enough or how do you know how much they

(53:53):
should be eating of what is left after they kind
of splatch it around everywhere?

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Really good question, really high answer. It's for this reason
because it is quite hard to monitor. So this is
why I'm a really big advocate of just keeping up
that monthly weight just to make sure that they are
getting enough food because the reality is it is a
bit hard to tell how much they're having. So that's
why I like to keep up the weight, just to
make sure that either way they're you know, between the
milk and between the solids that they are able to

(54:20):
get enough food. So just making sure that they are
tracking on their line or only moving up or down
one line. So that's probably the easiest way. I know,
it's a bit like overarching, and it also might you know,
vary from day to day. And also look, we haven't
really touched on all We haven't touched on iron, but
iron is really important. So just making sure you are
offering you know, iron rich foods. I mean, it's not
standard practice. We don't have like sat amounts of food

(54:42):
for that first two years of life. Like it's not
like they have to have this amount of food because
there's so much variation. That's why just you know, watch
how they're tracking. Then if they're tracking on the right
growth chart, we sort of provided we've been offering a
variety of food, we do assume that they're also getting
the variety of nutrients require. It's not standard practice to
go and for example, do like an iron test on

(55:04):
a baby because obviously, you know, require a blood test,
which we don't necessarily want to do. But there are
a few signs that you would be looking for, like
if baby was you know, sleeping more than they should
be or looking quite like tired, lethargic, pale like they
would be signs an iron deficiency, and then there might
be some intervention. There might be some you know, some
supplements put on or more of a focus put on
you know, iron rich foods. But it's not like we're

(55:26):
not like, okay, they have to be having this amount
of food. And this I guess occurs for baby lead
winning and purese. It's for this reason also that the
only time I wouldn't recommend baby lead weaning would be
for a child that was born like low birth weight
or was having any issues gaining weight, because it is
very hard to monitor how much they had taken in.
And so you know, if your baby was having issues

(55:48):
gaining weight and they were falling off the growth chart,
I'd be like, you know what, I'd probably be better
just to stick to purage, just so you can be like, Okay,
today we offered you know, half a cup of sweet
potato and babe eight half of the heart cup. So
we know they had a quarter of a cup of
sweet potato. We can calculate the calories. We can also
look at do we need to add something to it?
Do we need to fortify it. Do we need to

(56:08):
add any supplements to it? So because baby led winning,
it's like, yeah, it's not a great answer because it's
hard to tell, but it's just a general like you know,
watching that growth chart and making sure that they're gaining
enough weight. That's why you know, weight is so important
and I think can become quite unfortunately a bit of
a moment of stress, you know, especially in those early
days when you know, obviously baby comes out of hospital,

(56:30):
they lose a bit of weight, and then parents you know,
might be having issues with supply and stuff. Like the
weight is a really great marker just to you know,
go okay, well they're tracking, so they should be getting enough.
And then as long as there's no other signs that
would suggest deficiency like you know, lethargy and you know,
sleeping way more than they should be, we usually go okay,
you know, they're not going to intervene without really having to,

(56:53):
and premier babies will be put on like you know,
iron supplements and stuff for that reason. But yeah, so sorry,
a bit of a roundabout answer on that one, but it's.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
A hard Oh no, that's so valuable, Okay, guys, As
I mentioned, I will stop us there for this first
part one. As we covered so much information in so
much detail, it can be quite overwhelming, but I do
hope that you found it helpful and useful so far.
We will have the allergens section and a couple of
other questions in Part two, coming to you next week.

(57:21):
In the meantime, I'll pop all the links so far
in the show notes, and we'll be back with Part two.