Seize the Bébé // Steph Miller on second bubs, sense of self and staying at Homb

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Because for me, it's the most rewarding thing I've ever done,
but it's not my whole entire self. Even though people
tell you that every baby is different, I think I
was still surprised that it was going to be different.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to the Seas the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy,
but tired and worn, just some of the feelings when
baby is born. There's magic, elation, there's chaos and tears,
but everyone goes through the same hopes and fears. So
this is a segment we hope helps you feel supported
and valid. The mum juggles real, the good, bad, the ugly,
the best and worst day. It's part of the journey

(00:33):
to seize the Babe. I'm Sarah Davidson, a lawyer turned
entrepreneur who hung up the suits and heels to co
found Macha Maiden and Macha Milk Bar, become a TV
and radio presenter, and of course host the Sees the
Ya Podcast. This year, I added motherhood to that list,
which is the best job I've ever had with our
beautiful baby, Teddy, and this segment was designed to house
all the conversations we've been having about parenthood. We'll still

(00:56):
do our regular episodes, and just like real life, it's
a constant balance between our parent identity and everything else.
I hope you guys enjoy this segment as much as
I have enjoyed creating it. Lovely Yighborhood, I finally have
another Sees the Baby episode for you. As I mentioned,

(01:16):
they've been a little more sporadic than originally planned, but
isn't that just the perfect representation of parenthood generally, and
this one in particular is very much worth the wait.
You've all definitely heard of the incredible Steph Klesmith or
Steph Miller, and if you've been listening to this show
for a while, you'll have actually heard her on the show,
not once before, not twice before. But this episode makes

(01:37):
Steph's third appearance on CZA. I've always said that having
a podcast is such a beautiful way to capture who
a person is at a particular point in time, and
then if we do remain in each other's lives, to
be able to look back on those chapters together, and
that has definitely been the case with us. We first
recorded back in December twenty eighteen, when Steph and Laura

(01:58):
had both just gotten gauged. Then we called up four
years later in October twenty twenty two, when I was
MCing the Kick tour and Steph had just had Harvey
and entered the world of motherhood. So it feels like
a very special logical progression for her to return this
time to the show now that I've joined her in motherhood,
but also now that she's made the jump from one

(02:18):
to two little ones with Billy arriving just a few
months ago. Even more special was the fact that we
recorded during her stay at home Postpartum, a sanctuary for
postpartum parents and bubbs that was absolutely transformative for me
almost a year ago. Now. Some of you may have
followed along with that on socials, having been in each
other's dms a lot since Teddy was born, sharing lots

(02:40):
of highs, lots of lows, and the absolute mess of motherhood.
This chat is one that could have gone on for hours,
that I enjoyed so much and that I'm so excited
to share with you guys. You'll already know that Steph
is the co founder of Kick and the app has
been such a godsend for me trying to move my
body postpardum from wherever I am whenever I can fit
it in, and she has so kindly given us a

(03:02):
code too, which I'll pop in the show notes and
mentioned at the end. We didn't really have a theme
or agenda for this one. It just felt like a
lovely chat between mates in the trenches and I hope
you guys enjoy it as much as I did. Stephie, Hi,
welcome back to the show.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
I'm so glad to chat to you.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Oh, it is so nice to have you on. This
is so special because I was looking back and our
first interview was December twenty eighteen, Oh my god, and
you had just gotten engaged. So that was one big
life chapter and Kick was very very near you. Then
our reunion was five years later, so October twenty twenty two,

(03:45):
and we had Harvey and we were on a Kick tour. Yes,
I think it was maybe a year or less than
a year into the app, the relaunch of the app. Yeah,
the relaunch of the app, so another big kind of chapter.
And then it's been three years, so I've had these
big intervals of like pre motherhood, post your first baby,

(04:08):
and now two babies three years after that. So how
special is this? That's cool.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
I didn't even think of that that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, and I kind of went back and had a
little listen to all the different versions of us. And
I say it all the time, but it is. This
is my favorite thing about having a podcast is you
have an audio record of who you were totally at
certain points in your life. And that's something that I
don't think any generation has really had in such depth anyway,
to reflect on how you felt about life and who

(04:37):
you were at different times in your life. So it's
been a great privilege to have shared these sitty chapters together.
Privilege is mine. Nos, awesome. So I guess the first
question I have so many particularly around you know, this
latest chapter of going from one to two, But if
you look back at Stephan December twenty eighteen and then
October twenty twenty two, how would you you've changed since then?

(05:01):
And if you could say anything to that girl, like,
what would you say?

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Oh, that's such a good question. I think honestly, even
with motherhood aside, who I am today is probably more
similar to Steph in twenty eighteen than Steph in twenty
twenty two. Really, yeah, I think that it was kind
of So we launched the kick ap in twenty eighteen,
and I had like call it naivity, but just so

(05:27):
much confidence in what we were doing and what was happening,
and really happy in life. And yeah, I just think
that I was really authentically me at that point. And
it's not to say that I wasn't in twenty twenty two.
But as the business grew and we were also, you know,
trying to grow really fast, we were talking to investors,

(05:49):
like there was a lot happening kind of between twenty
twenty two and three, and so my mind was kind
of on other things, and I think I got a
little bit lost in who I was, and I became
a little bit of a people pleaser, which I've never
really been one. I mean, like to a point, I've
always wanted to be liked. Yeah, I think we all do,
but I wouldn't have ever defined myself as a people pleaser.

(06:11):
But there was a phase where I almost felt like
maybe I'd made this like somewhat selfish decision to have Harvey,
and I still had a community and a business to
operate and work on, and a business partner to think of,
and so like, you know, that needs to take the
back seat for now, as in family. In my mind,

(06:31):
I was like I need to somehow unprioritize them at
the same time as like wanting to prioritize the bug
out of it. Yeah, and just find this balance of
working and working really hard and still being present enough
at home. I found it so hard to find that balance,
and it took a while for me to realize that
it's kind of impossible to find a perfect balance, and
that there's going to be kind of different seasons and

(06:53):
phases that come and go where you can lean more
into being present with your family versus work. And that
was just a phase where I had to lean into work,
and that's fine. And so I think I look back
and I don't have any regrets other than I think
I could have been a little bit more honest with
myself and people around me of what was going on.
I think I tried to push through a lot and

(07:13):
pretend everything was okay when it wasn't. So yeah, I
think that's probably the biggest difference when I think back
to those two different versions of me versus now.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Wow. I think what's also really interesting is now that
I have sort of crossed over to what I call
planet parent, because I do now think that what I
thought was a level of empathy that was like above average.
Because I was one of the last in our immediate
friend group to have kids, I thought I knew what
everyone was going through, and now I've crossed over. I'm like,

(07:42):
I had no fucking idea, Like not even close to
one percent empathy. I had as much empathy as I
was a table, but it's more like being on a
different planet with a different language than what I knew.
Looking back at the kick tour and remembering hearing you
have conversations about leaving Harvey and you know that balance

(08:03):
and thinking I understood what you meant, but realizing that
you were surrounded by me, Laura dk Yey, like none
of us had kids, and so you would have been
going through all of this without you know, like the
immediate people that you were working alongside, having not even
not only no idea, but no capacity to have an idea. Yeah,

(08:24):
that would have been so difficult.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, I mean, like it wasn't even who we worked with,
like a lot of our friendship group, and we're the
first in our family and in our close friendship group.
So I mean, I'm really fortunate I was able to
connect with people like m you know, embossy, like really
early on. So I had my kind of little mother's
group and now they're some of my closest friends. But
other than that, I didn't know anyone else to talk

(08:49):
to and lean on. One of my girlfriends, actually, Hailey.
She she's like a sister to me. She was definitely someone,
but she lived in New Zealand, so it was just
that kind of like distance of you know, I can
still obviously message in caller at any time, but yeah,
just none of our friends had it.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
And you're so right with.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Thinking that you could fathom what it would be like,
or how it must feel when they're sick or anything
like that, but you just really nothing can explain it
until you're in it. It's really like you can read
as many books, I mean even here, and I'm sure
we're going to talk about home soon, but even the
midwives here have said that until they became among themselves
like they had. Obviously midwives are the most like, beautiful,

(09:26):
empathetic people ever. What they do is incredible, but like
they still had no idea and felt like they were
thrown in the deep end, even though they're supposed to
be like experts in your space when it was their
own experience. Yeah, so it's so true. You just you
just don't know until you experienced it, and that's okay.
I think for a while there, I not I wouldn't
use the word resentment. It always feels a bit too

(09:47):
heavy to use the word resentment, But it's kind of
the only one that's coming to mind right now towards
some friends who I felt like maybe didn't give me
the validation that I wanted when I was like venting
about something. But now I look back and I'm like,
there was they know, they just couldn't know, and that's fine. Yeah,
so I think it's it's okay. And I think it
doesn't mean you're gonna lose friends. I'm really strong on that, Like,

(10:09):
just because you're in different phase of life doesn't mean
that your friendship has to be a battle. Like there's
always ways to still have your connection and like find
your new way of catching up and everything, and whether
or not they then have kids down the track or whatever,
it's it's a new thing to navigate. Yeah, so yeah,
I agree.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
And I actually think it is really beautiful to have
your friends who aren't necessarily in the same chapter as
you because they keep that part of your alive, like
agreed there, like there could be no bigger chasm between
people then Karna and I like my very single gay
friend who is you know, maybe wants to have kids

(10:48):
one day, but our lifestyles are so far apart. But
that difference sometimes is challenging to navigate logistically in terms
of touch ups. But it keeps a side of my
personality alive that would otherwise die very quickly.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
So it's actually kind of nice to have that diversity
in your friendship group. You mentioned home, So we are
very lucky today to be recording at home postpartum, which
is I mean, honestly, I'm like sitting on the plushes
carpet on the floor. We're being fed chocolate truffles that
have been homemade. Steph is how many days have you
been staying now? Three? It is just one of the

(11:24):
most special places in the world. I think you guys
might remember I came to stay when Teddy was about
six months And how has it been? How are you feeling?

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Insane? It's been so nice and I'm so glad I
connected with you before coming in because originally I was
going to come with Josh and we were going to
kind of use it as our time to connect with Billy,
like we were obviously able to with Harvey when he
was the only one in our world. So it kind
of started with us getting Harvey excited about being on
a holiday with his grandparents and getting to go stay

(11:52):
with them at the farm, and he was so stoked
and loved that. So I didn't even need to mention
the fact that we were doing something. But then when
I thought about it more I spoke to you about it,
I was like, I think I'm actually as much as
I'm craving time for Josh and I, which we definitely
have now found motivation to actually try organized and organized
because it's really hard. I needed time by myself, and

(12:17):
so that's what this has given me, and I'm so
grateful for it. Like I just feel this state of
calm that I don't think I've felt in a while.
And it's not to say that my postpartum at home
has been traumatic or like bad or in any way,
but it's a bit chaotic, Like there's a lot going

(12:38):
on at home, our home, and you know, juggling with
Harvey and wanting to make sure that he's still getting
as much of me, like and not feeling like this
baby's just come in and flipped his world and now
he never sees his mum, like that was the last
thing I wanted him to feel. But juggling that and
then there's been some work stuff going on. It's been busy.
It's been it's been busy, So I think coming here

(13:01):
it's just been like the best excuse to lounge back
and have this one on one time with Billy and
not feel like there's anything else I need to get done.
Like at home, I can have those moments with a
but I'm also like, probably should get to that pile
of washing that I've been putting off for a week, or
like I need to remember to book having into this

(13:21):
or do like there's just this never ending list in
your head. So it's been really nice to get away
and everyone here is so amazing. The food is so nourishing.
It's like reinspired me to actually put in a fit.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
So like, seriously, I didn't think that would be such
a highlight, Like I thought the twenty four seven Professional
Care was going to be. The food would be so incidental,
But having someone cook nourishing food, yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
You know what it is as well. It's the mental
load of thinking what to eight, like the fact that
they're just like today you're having Sama patties. I'm like, fabulous, amazing,
Like I don't I think I'm such a repeat eater
because I just can't we bothered thinking of other things,
Like I don't mind cooking, but I'm not, like I'm
not one of those people that just like absolutely loves
it and so wants to try a new recipes all

(14:08):
the time, Like that's just not me. So I ended
up having the same breakfast most weeks. We have the
same kind of dinners on rotation, just because with the
mental load, it's easier when I'm shopping and also when
I'm cooking it, I don't have to think as much,
whereas here it's like something different all the time, and
it's every meal I've like loved and I wouldn't think
to make myself. No, I agree, but then I watched
them make it, and I'm like I could do this.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, it wasn't that difficult. But I even noticed. It's
like the constant flow of snacks and they give you
water and like you don't even remember to hydrate, like
it's my supply had dropped when I came here because
I was in that sort of I think a lot
of people find the immediate postpartum chapter really difficult. I
found that blissful. So I had a big crash almost

(14:50):
at four to five months when the novelty wore off,
the hormone sort of started to Yeah, I was. I
just had like the four to six month regression, and
it was I was very depleted when I and so
my supply was down. But I also wasn't eating enough
because I wasn't like having snacks and like good snacks.
I was forever. Yeah, And so I mean, if you

(15:10):
guys haven't heard, I think I've spoken about it before
and we will have the incredible founder Larissa on but
home spelt like womb does feel kind of like going
back into the womb. It's where mothers are mothered and
mothers don't give themselves permission, like we all spent. Steph
and I have a laughing off air about how we
you spend your first day here trying to help clean
because you feel so guilty about letting anyone, even when

(15:32):
they start to unpack your suitcase on the first day,
I was like, oh, let me do that.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, yeah, even like when they offered to hold I'm like,
Billy or are you sure?

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yes? That okay?

Speaker 1 (15:44):
And that's literally what we're here for.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Please give us something to do. Well, I'm glad it's
been such a beautiful time and yeah, such a privilege
to catch you actually here and to share. I mean,
it's been beautiful to share so many parts of motherhood
with you so far. And I know you have just
done an episode this week on kick Bump about sort
of the big transition from one to two and how
Billy has been so far. But that wasn't five weeks.

(16:10):
It's now she's now eight and a half. So we
can add some questions or add some perspectives that might
have changed since then. But I guess my big first
question for you, so Harvey's four yep, Billy's eight and
a half weeks, what were the things you consciously wanted
to do differently? So we'll talk about like what ended
up surprising you that was different, But what did you

(16:30):
decide before you went into this that you want to show
differently from last time?

Speaker 1 (16:33):
I think I wanted to be more laid back on
sleep routine, Like we're not at the stage of like
sleep training yet obviously she's in the eight weeks, but
just mentally thinking ahead, I know I want to do
a different technique when it does come to that. If
it comes to that, I think, just like, if I'm
being honest with myself, what we kind of went through

(16:55):
with Halves was pretty much like it was pretty close
to the cryod out method and like it worked, which
is probably the worst part. But I mean, like it
works to an extent, but I didn't feel natural to
me in the moment, and I questioned it in the moment,
and I wish I trusted my instincts more because I

(17:16):
think I would do it a little differently now. Like
there's I mean, there's so many when we talk about
cryed out or sleep training, like there's so many different
techniques within that range, and like I know, people it's
very polarizing what people think about sleep training in general.
But you know, I was returning to work and not sleeping,
and that was like I needed to get on top

(17:37):
of it. I needed to do something. My mental health
is like plummeting because of it, and so that's important
to acknowledge. I think when we're talking about things like
sleep training, I don't think any mum just like does
it because they want their kid to be like a
robot and like whatever, it's because you're literally clutching.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
And it's out of desperation. Exactly. If we all start
anti sleep training, everyone begins there. It's just that necessity
pushes you further and further along the spectrum.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, and you know, whatever technique you end up going
with and whatever works with your families, like each their own.
But yeah, I do kind of reflect on that, and
I'm like, I think we've just approached a little bit differently,
and even it's quite funny. There's an app called Huckleberry
that was.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
One of my next questions and tracking.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yes, so I tracked with Harvey from I think it
was like six weeks or so. We had a maternal
health check up and she asked me how much he
was sleeping in the day or how long his awake
windows were, and I was like, I don't fucking know, Yeah,
how would I know? Like sometimes he sleeps a ten minutes,
sometimes three hours, Like I have no idea, And she's like, okay, well,

(18:40):
now's a really good time where you can start just
like keeping an idea on that or keeping an eye
on the awake time, because sometimes like the best way
to get over fussying is just like making sure they're
not overtired. So I like learned a lot in that session.
But what it meant was I then jumped into Huckleberry
and became utterly obsessed with tracking, like to the minute.
Like if i'd like forgot to stop the time, I'd

(19:00):
wind it back three minutes because I thought that that
was really important to be accurate.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Right. I definitely started there too, seriously so hard to
let go of.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
It's really hard, right, And so I had that and
I actually reckon I tracked, So the start I was
tracking everything from like poo's to obviously medication. That's probably
my favorite part of the app was that you could
track medication and your partner can like see as well,
so you don't need to necessarily like forget to write
something down or tell them that they already had a
panet all. They could just check the app and see

(19:28):
that it happened. So I do like that about it.
But it was mainly for sleep, and I kept using
it for sleep. Honestly, I think he was almost one,
and as soon as we had Billy, I was like,
I don't want to do that again, Like that was
too much, Like I let it rule my life, like
looking at his awake windows and like calculating how much
day sleep he had versus night sleep and all that.

(19:49):
I was obsessed, And so I didn't think I was
going to download it again. But what happened was with
the juggle of two of them, I once again was
not watching her awake windows or napping or whatever. And
also she was really unsettled because of the dairy intolerance
that came up, So it could have been that, to
be honest, but because she was so unsettled, I was like, fuck,

(20:10):
have I even't been like she even been napping much?
He generally don't even know. I don't know how much
she's been there.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
How many days have we been awaken a rocky exactly?

Speaker 1 (20:19):
And so I decided to download it again, just thinking
in my head like I'll just do it so that
I can while my head is in another world, I
can still kind of somewhat no, if she's going to
be hungry or not, like if she's fussying, it's like no, no,
she ate twenty minutes ago. It's non feed or whatever.
So I was using it and then it was funny
because when I was coming in here and they give

(20:40):
you that kind of pre call and talk about how
you've been and all that sort of stuff, I mentioned
that I was using the app, and they're like, do
you want to keep using it? I was like, no,
it don't me because I can already feel myself getting
there and so for the last twenty hours. So I
did use it at the start of being here, but
for the last like twenty hours, I've just stopped tracking
it and it's already felt good, nicer. Yeah, So I think, like,

(21:04):
I think there's a place for it. Yeah, I think
like it genuinely for feeling really really lost and you're
wanting something to kind of keep an eye on things
for you. I think it's good. But I think the
moment you start to feel like you need to wind
bat two minutes, like maybe you know, just put it
down and trust your instincts a bit more. I think
that was the thing that surprised me was I was like,

(21:25):
I didn't think I was going to need it. I
thought i'd be like so in tune with her straight up.
But that's taking time, and that's okay.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
I kind of think this could be a little unhinged.
But I kind of think mum's going through the tracking
obsession cycle is a little bit like teenage ass going
through my fitness.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Pal Oh my god. Yeah, kind of like you know.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
You just go, you go, Okay, this is really useful
and informative and educational, and then you go, oh, I
can't put it down, and then you go, yeah, I
really need to let this go, and then you have
to slowly phase it out. Yeap, it's so true, which
is kind of a weird way to code our twenties
in this, but I think, yeah, well, as soon as
you start to feel obsessive, which I definitely went through
that phase with data, it can start to rule your

(22:06):
life what's been surprisingly easier and what's been surprisingly harder,
or just any other kind of like big surprises this
time around.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I think even though people tell you that every baby's different,
I think I was still surprised, yeah, that it was
going to be different. I think I went into it
with a lot of confidence knowing that kind of, like
you said, the early postpartum stage I actually enjoyed with Harvey,
and so I kind of went into this stage thinking like,
this is going to be.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
Blueliss yeah, and to float on the.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Right now exactly the moment she didn't take the dummy,
I was like, cool, cool, cool, that's different. And then
she also didn't take the bottle, and I was like,
all right, well we still got time. That's fine because
Harvey was very easy with both of those things. And
then then we found out yeah, five weeks, which I'm
glad I had Hervey to compare her to. Yeah, because
at about five weeks, after about three weeks of seeing

(22:59):
her so so unsettled, I was like, no, no, no,
something has to be up. At first, when she was fussy,
I just thought to myself, like, well, they say every
baby's different. Maybe she's just more fussy than Harvey is.
She just needs to be on me all the time.
Because with Harvey, you know, there's like cocuna baby nests
and everything. I could put him on that, give him
a dummy, and like within ten minutes he was asleep,

(23:20):
and then he'd sleep like almost a whole nap, just
there on the middle of the dining table with lights
on and whatever. He was very easy in the early
early stages, whereas Billy was only napping. Contact had to
be upright, like all these things and yeah, I think
it was between three and five weeks where her symptoms
from the dairy stuff like really flared up. And to

(23:41):
be fair, I was eating a lot of dairy, like
well above what any nutritness would say you need in
your diet.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
I feel like you're a big fan of dairy.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
I'm a big fan of dairy like I have. I
have Cow's milk coffee and I had two coffees a day.
I have cheese almost with every meal. I have yogurt
every day, Endless Mounts chocolate.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Call nine nine percent exactly right, and so child.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
With an intolerance when I found, oh my god, like
guild that I felt, even though like you know I could,
I didn't know, and so like it's funny to even think,
like how did you feel guilty over something that wasn't
even your something.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
You didn't know, but you still I still felt like,
oh my god, it was me. But yeah, she was
so unsettled, and that really threw me because different like
techniques or settling things that I'd do with Harvey just
wasn't working. And my back was just breaking. Like I
was like I had to wear her all day pretty much.
I was getting ten thousand steps without leaving the house.

(24:40):
Not leaving the house. I didn't leave the house, and
I'd get ten thousand steps just from pacing holding her,
And I was like, I just don't know how much
longer I'm going to be able to do this because
also outside of that, like I still wanted the energy
to be able to be there for Harvey and everything,
So that kind of threw me and was a little
bit more challenging. But I think being on top of
that intolerance has helped he So she's a lot happier now,

(25:02):
and I think she's also she's past that window of
like all the witching hour, like peaking like six weeks
that was like crazy, So she's past that now, and
it's nice to at least have those moments where she's
kind of like calm and smiling and cooey and we're
finally coming out of the smoke.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, what about the sort of big shift? I mean,
I know you spoke about it on the kick Bump
episode you just did, but was it surprising that it
was not as hard to go to two as it
was to go from zero to one? Like, how have
you navigated that? I can't actually imagine keeping all of

(25:39):
the data that I have about Teddy's activities, and then
adding another load of data but then not compatible. Yeah,
and then trying to like fit life in around those gas.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
I think I've said going from zero to one is
harder than one to two, and I think to a
point I still agree with myself, But then it really
depends on how you look at it. I think going
from zero to one, it's an entire lifestyle shift, Like
you go from not like the main person really that
you're responsible for yourself and you can, you know, make

(26:11):
selfish decisions and be really flexible and stuff, and that
all really goes once you have a kid. So that
is a huge shift for me, I think, and I
think a lot of people would agree. However, I wouldn't
agree with the sentence that it then means one to
two is easier because it kind of changes again, like
the routine that you find I think, particularly for us,

(26:33):
like there was a bigger age gap, you know, four years,
so we very much got comfortable with our routine with
Harvey in our new life and kind of mentally thought
like it was just going to be the same and
having another one in there, yeah, which I don't know
why we thought that, But at the end of the day,
I think the biggest challenge is finding alone time and

(26:53):
finding time with your partner. I think you can manage
the guilt that your will doesn't revolve around your first anymore.
I think you can kind of get on top of
that because you see little glimpses of magic between the
two of them, and you know that it's like it's
a beautiful gift that you've been able to, Like, you
know that they get to grow up with another little
sibling in their family. I think so, I think you

(27:15):
can kind of get on top of that feeling of like,
oh my god, do they hate me? Now? Yeah, it's
normal to feel that way, but I think you get
on top of really. But it's the time with your partner,
which is like kind of near and possible unless you
have like a village helping you, and time by yourself
is very farb like I don't, Yeah, that hasn't really existed,

(27:38):
and it's getting used to that and then also accepting
that you know that that's probably only going to be
for a period of time as well. So I think
when you've had one before, you know that these really
hard phases pass and that hindsight is beautiful in the
second because I think in those really challenging moments, even
if they're a little bit different to the first, you
can remember that it's just a period of time, and

(28:00):
then you'll be past it. Yeah, I mean, and then
they'll go through some regression.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
I feel like every chapter's hard. They're just new and different,
hard toitles, but with new and different beautiful moments. Yeah,
what about the So the four year gap? Had you
planned that out? Like we're now in that really overwhelming
stage of sort of being through the real thick of
that real early stage where I feel like we could

(28:26):
now cope with starting to think about trying. But then
there's so just the numbers and the there's so many
factors weighing in all different directions of classific that there's
no certainty whatsoever. So you're trying to plan for this
ideal gap that you want, and then you're like, I've
just started to get a bit of freedom back. Do
I just do it all before, like rip the band
aid again before I see the light, or do I

(28:48):
enjoy the light a little bit, or do I start
trying whatever happens right away, whatever it takes ages, Like
did you guys plan what you wanted and then did
it happen quickly? How did you manage?

Speaker 1 (28:58):
So I think, like obviously, like as you said, like
I want to acknowledge, like to even have the thought
that it could be an option.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Is a privilege.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
It's a privilege. And the fact that we started when
I was twenty seven with Harvey, like I had a
little bit more time, you know, on my biological clock
to take my time. You know, if you start a
little bit later, that's not necessarily an option if you're
wanted to have more than one kid. So and really,
we were really fortunate to fall pregnant quickly with Harvey,
So no, that doesn't mean you're guaranteed for it to

(29:29):
happen again. But I at least when we were thinking
about number two, I didn't have like, oh, well, it
was really hard the first time in the back of
my mind as well, so I kind of assumed that
it could be hard, but maybe not, Like we haven't
had any reason to be worried. So that was one
reason why we wanted to take our time. But really
the biggest factor, honestly was work, Like I really wanted

(29:51):
to get back into it, and I also with the
capacity of like balancing it with Harvey and what it did,
the difference it made like me being kind of like
out of the business for period of time and not
necessarily with our team or connecting with the community as much.
Like I felt that difference and the business like was affected.
It's going to happen, right, And so for me it
was like, Okay, well, what phase are we in? Like

(30:13):
I've got Harvey, which is amazing, and if he's all
I ever have, like I'm so grateful for that, but
now I really need to tap back into to work
as well, and I can't do that if I then
have to go and leave again and then pregnant again
and all of that.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
So that was definitely one major factor to waiting.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
But it was also as you said, I was really
feeling like I was on top of things. I reckon
between eighteen months and two years old Harvey, That's when
I felt like, not was I back, I was like
a new beta version of me and I was so happy,
Like I just felt like really good in my in myself,

(30:50):
in my strength and in mothering. I think like I
felt like I was a good mum and or just
like how many sixteenth that's two months away from me. So,
as I said before, it was a hard time in
my life. When I think about work, Yeah, but when
I think about who I was as a mument and
kind of other parts, I'm like, no, I actually did
start to feel like I was getting a grasp of

(31:10):
things and everything. So I was kind of, as you said,
you think like, oh, do I really want to go
back and all of that. Anyway, I had friends who
had had two under two as well, and I think
there's pros and cons for both. I think, as you said,
like you can kind of get through that, you know,
really young phase together and then as they grow they're
closer in age. Like that's really beautiful. But I think

(31:32):
about like both me and Josh's my partner, our dynamics
with our siblings. I mean, he's got huge age gaps
between all of his siblings. His youngest brother is like
fourteen years younger than him, and the other two are
like four or six years younger than him. And my
brother's three years older than me, so a little bit
of a smaller gap, but we're all really close. So

(31:53):
I don't think it means like if they're further apart,
they're just like not going to grap as those I
can see how it does happen, Yeah, but I just
think like without what we could compare it to, I
wasn't too worried about that. And so then what happened
was I also Laura and Dalt got married and we
I think I was really conscious of, like we'd always

(32:14):
spoken about as much as we're best friends and you'd
want to, like you'd dream to be pregnant at the
same time as your best friend and go through that
phase together for the business, that made no sense for
like both of us to be out, and we'd spoken
about that before, and so I think I was also
subconsciously giving space for her time.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, yeah, if she wanted to have a term she
wanted to, Yeah, I remember we spoke about that.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, Like, and that's just like, that is what it is.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
Like.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
I think I've spoken to some people about it who
don't necessarily have their own business, and they didn't really
understand it and were like, what do you mean, Like
it shouldn't be so calculated, but like, but the reality
is it kind of does, like and you don't have control,
Like you don't know how or when you're going to
feel pregnant is in like it can come sporadically or
it can be really hard. But when you run a business,

(32:57):
and particularly it's like a co founder, you do have
to obviously considered the other person and consider the business
in those kind of life changing decisions. And so what
happened was when she was working through whether or not
they wanted to have kids. That was a period where
I knew for sure that we wanted to have a second,
but the timing I was still unsure with. But I
was coming closer and closer to think, I think we're ready.

(33:19):
But I was very conscious that she was going through that,
and I didn't want my decision to affect her decision
because she's such a selfless person. Yeah, but I feel
like if she's like working out she wants to have
a kid or not, and then I'm like, yeah, by
the way, I want my second now. Like as much
as I obviously she would want me to be honest
with her.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
It could tip her yet And I.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Was like, no, no, she just needs the space to
figure this out. And honestly, it was very soon after
she opened up to me about like she'd worked through it.
She did the miniseries and they decided that they did
want to have a kid, but they were probably at
least like twelve to eighteen months off trying. As soon
as she said that, I was like, bang, okay, that's

(34:01):
a window.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
That's cool.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
And then I just we had an honest conversation about it,
and I was like, we really would love to have
a second. We both were really honest with each other
and that like, you know, she might start trying in
eighteen months, but it could take them two three four
years to actually full pregnant, and was I going to
kind of just hold back and wait until that and
the reality of that and everything, and so yeah, it
was pretty much like once that was worked through, we

(34:25):
started trying, and again, we're very fortunate that it happened quickly.
Laura had a joke, she was like, well, you're very
sufficient with planning, beaus In like, you know, we kind
of we spoke about it, and we planned it, and
then like next minute, you're pregnant. So that's kind of
how it was decided. And to be honest, like if

(34:45):
anyone's worried about four years of a gap for whatever
reason that you're worried, I've loved it. I think it's
been great because it's given me and Josh a really
special time with Harvey. It's meant that he's at this
age where he can cognitively understand a lot, Like he
knew as my belly was growing that there was a
baby in there growing. He could understand that he'd seen

(35:06):
my sister in law be pregnant and have his cousins
and my little nephew in the hospital and then come
home and then see him get older every time he
catches up, so he could understand what a baby is,
how you've got to be gentle. He like whispers or
like would tiptoe, not always, he also screams, and so
exactly it's little, but he somewhat understands and can communicate

(35:29):
and all that sort of stuff I've And he's also
like somewhat sufficient, like he'll like self sufficient. He'll go
and make himself a cereal bowl or like put on
his own clothes and like, so that's really helpful as well,
because like if I'm not trapped or anything, he.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Can get your water bottle. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
So I think if you're worried that like you know,
the GAP's going to be too big or whatever, because
I think we more commonly see how people make it
work when they're closer in age, which is chaotic in
its own way.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
If we see as much with a bigger gap, and
it's really worked for us.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
I actually was really excited to have this chat with
you because I have seen this really big swing and
a lot of people around me, particularly in the last
six months of two under two pregnancies, like the second
pregnancy being announced and realizing they are all going to
be so close together, and women who are in a
similar career phases us where we're a little bit more

(36:21):
established than we were for our first child, so we
do have a little bit more choice, like the you know,
there's not as much concern about taking a break, and
so perhaps that does me and everyone's like, let's just
do it now before I get that momentum. But then
I sort of thought, I want to see a really
nice example of if it does take us a little
bit longer. Yeah, And I love that you can explain

(36:43):
to Harvey, like he can be part of getting excited
because he does have that little bit of extra cognition
that's also special in its own way.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, it is, And it's like and I know not
everyone has this experience, and it could have gone anyway,
but he loves us so much, so beautiful seeing him,
like while I've been here. If we FaceTime him and
she gives a little smile or something, he laughs like hysterically,
thinking securest thing. Ever, when she smiles at him and
he's like giving her a nickname, we all call her

(37:12):
Bilson's now because that's what he called her. Bis. So like,
it's just really sweatin. We'll be in the car and
he'll be like, hey, mom, Billy said that she really
wants to listen to Frozen, like she really sure, Like
he's already, He's already using his sibling is like, so, yeah,

(37:34):
it's been it's been nice seeing him kind of blossom
as brother too.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
Oh that's so beautiful. It's been lovely, really lovely to watch.
And yeah, also really nice to have an example of
a slightly bigger age gap, which is still not big,
but yeah, bigger to be able to kind of compare
that because it did take us a little while to
get pregnant with TV, so thinking like, even if we
did start today, it could still take us quite a while.
But one of the things that has played in my

(37:59):
mind quite a lot. Is that. I love that you
are really open just now about how calculated the decision actually.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Does have to be.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
In reality, for women in particular, it is actually that calculated.
It's what is work doing and when can I afford
to take that break? And I think one of the
more challenging parts of our industry is relevance. And we
talk about it much because it's embarrassing, it's stigmatized, and
because if you're talking about it, it means you're questioning it,
which is a really vulnerable place to be. But you

(38:29):
do have this huge fear of like, once I'm a mum,
will I become this daggy person whose brand has changed?
That whole loss of identity is already something that plays
on every woman's mind, but in an industry where your
personal profile, body image, everything is your brand, it is
so difficult. And as much as you're comfortable talking about it,

(38:51):
you and I have mentioned quite a few times that
we felt a shift in our identity internally, but I
actually think the bigger challenge and just how everyone else
sees you different when you don't want to be seen differently,
Like you're like I still like fashion, I still like
all the things I used to like, I'm still dynamic,
I'm still young. In my brain, I thought the rebrand

(39:13):
might be in my head. But there's been a lot
of things that have changed in the way other people
perceive me, purely because I had a baby. Yeah, have
you found that played on? Like you and I were
at an event together when Billy was two weeks old,
which was so beautiful. Does that go through your mind
of like I have to get back and be out

(39:36):
and about because I have to be seen to be
still doing stuff. But I can't say yes to too
many motherhood events because I might be seen as too
much of a mum, like the stuff we wouldn't never
really vocalize. But do you think does that happen to you?
And is it different this time to last time?

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, first of all, I
just want to say it's so funny. I'm the same
with thinking like I'm such a young mum.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
I'm such a teenage young mom.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
I really mean, I'm still twenty two. And then someone
would be like, oh, you're thirty one, so it's kind
of like average, isn't it, And I'm like.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
It's just normal. Yeah, right, But it's so true, like
a teenager. True. I think people are looking at me like, oh,
she's way too young for I mean she knocked back
in high school, Like, oh my god, that's true.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
But no, I agree. I think for me, it's been
really interesting. I think because especially with like how my
career kind of started. You know, I was a full
time model. Most of the modeling I was doing was
bikini and laingerie, and I've always really loved leaning into
that kind of side of me and still to this
day would enjoy like, I mean, call it what it is,

(40:39):
but get my rig out for a shoot, right, Like
I still get a kick out of that, and you
do enjoy that, and I'm really happy to still feel
connected to that side of me. I think, however, like
it took a long time for any of those kind
of jobs to come back up, like and for people
to even consider it, and like maybe it was because

(41:01):
I wasn't like traveling as much and taking that content
like and reminding people that I don't know, I can
still do this, but like it's Hbaccini. It is a
bit funny, Like I'm already thinking about it now. I
still have some goals and ambitions of mine in the
modeling space that I'm not ready to let go of,
and I know that that's going to take me putting
myself out there again and people. I can't just assume

(41:23):
that people still think I'm into it and everything like,
so there is still a part of you that's like, well,
I kind of do got to show up in that
way for people to see me that way. But you're
so right, just because I've become a mum doesn't mean
that's my.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Entire It's not automatic.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
No, Yeah, I mean I know we talk about it
a lot, but we do like to think of it right,
And I do want to say as well, like I
love being a mum.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
I love it, and I feel like it's something that
I knew I was always going to, Like I have
waited for this day my whole life, like it was
it was always.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Going to happen.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Well, I mean, I hoped it was always going to
happen for me. It was a big dream of mine.
So like, as much as it's challenging and I vent
a lot about it, it's a dream come true for me.
So I'm okay with a lot of my identity being
attached to motherhood because for me, it's the most rewarding
thing I've ever done, but it's not my whole entire self.
And so like, for example, I still wear pretty cheeky bikinis, right,

(42:20):
and people have something to say about that when I
wear them. There was a video I put up on
I think it was TikTok or something, and it ended
up going viral. I was wearing just what I thought
was like a relatively okay but cheeky bikini and I
was jumping in the pool to get goggles or something
for Harvey, and the internet was like some people were
super supportive, but it was like this outrage of like

(42:41):
me being a mum and wearing what I was wearing
in front of my son, and I was like, he'll
see me naked, Like you mean what? Like I still
have baths or showers with him, Like what's wrong with
me wearing a cheeky bikini around him?

Speaker 2 (42:51):
And also why.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Can't a mom wear that?

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Like it's everyone feels.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Comfortable in different things, and this is what I feel
comfortable in, Like why is that such a problem for you?
Because I have a kid, that's what rare. It annoys me.
And when you know you can lean so far into
motherhood because you're enjoying it and it is a huge
part of you. But then people think it then defines
everything else you do. I don't think that that needs
to be the case.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
And I think it's if you choose that, Yeah, that's
absolutely fine, Like if you want to go and lean
all the way into your mother and not have a
bikini moment, and like that's totally fine. Truly, I think
that it's taken away from you. Like I remember having
really interesting comment about from someone and I understand, like
fair enough, they didn't have to tell me, but they're
allowed to have this opinion. They chose not to have children,

(43:33):
and like all my content in that first chapter was
about Teddy, and of course it was because I wasn't
doing anything else because I was, you know, I just
had a baby. But I sort of was like, well
you will, that other stuff will return, Like this is
just the chapter that I'm in.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
What did they say, like, you don't post any of
your olds, yeah anymore.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
And like I'm just gonna unfollow And I was saying, yeah, anyway,
that's a whole other story whatever. I was like, that's fine,
be sure. But what was really interesting to me is
that the reason why it continued for longer was not
because I didn't want to post that stuff. It's because
I didn't have any of that stuff to post. Yeah, Like,
I found it interesting that it wasn't my choice In
a lot of situations. It was like, I'm not posting

(44:09):
as much fashion stuff because I'm not getting out much
fashion jobs because people don't want to send me this stuff.
And it's like, still wear the same clothes. Yeah, I'm
still the same size, Like I still take the same content,
nothing has changed, So why, like do you find I
have this overarching and it is more calculated than I'd
like to be, But I have this overarching quota of

(44:30):
like how much motherhood stuff am I doing? And how
much non motherhood stuff am I doing? And sometimes I'm like, shit,
it's been too long. I've got to got to chuck
up something in a nice outfit because oh my god,
it's wint Like do you have that balance?

Speaker 1 (44:42):
I think, like, as I said, there's still some goals
in my career that I would like to reach, and
I just know that I'm not going to be considered
for any of it if I'm just posting motherhood. Yeah,
it's just not going to happen. But when it comes
to so for I think strategy and career wise, yes,
it's my mind. Yeah, I have let go of though
is people like that comment that you got, Yeah, Like

(45:03):
I individual don't care. My Instagram has changed so much
from like if someone's been following me since two thousand
and I don't know, eleven from when I've been on
or twenty fourteen when I was living in New York,
Like I am loldly aware that my feed does not
look like it did then, like I was doing a
photo shoot at least once a week. I was like
traveling into state or overseas almost every month. Like of

(45:26):
course my feed has changed. My entire life has changed,
and I'm aware of that, and I'm not going to
try and get back there or like try and make
that possible to like please someone else that my account
is showing up how they want, Like it's I'm fine
with someone moving on because the phase that I'm in
right now, like I am posting motherhood more than anything. Again,
I'm eight weeks pro shredam. But it's also a phase

(45:47):
that I'm really invested in right now and I'm consumed
by And yeah, I might be like losing some people
and that's okay, but I'm also gaining new community members
that are connecting with me because they going through something
similar as well. And I think that's really nice too,
that it can kind of change and you can change,
and we need to give ourselves grace in those periods. However,

(46:10):
people also need to have patience. As you said that
like things like me traveling or like doing modeling gigs
or whatever, that'll probably come back. So if that's what
you enjoyed, yeah, stick around.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
If you followed me for Antarctica, I'm not doing that
for a little while, guys. It's just like not where
I'm at right now. Maybe. Oh god, that looked amazing.
It was amazing, And it's interesting that I'm curious to
know whether you have felt different or less pressure this
time because of that perception thing to get back to

(46:42):
the things you did before, Because I definitely felt like
we had a trip for a wedding when Teddy was
four months overseas and I was not saying no to that.
But a big part of it was not just for
the life experience, it was also because I was like,
I need to show people I can travel.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Sta still travel.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah, and I want if the second time around, I
would be a little bit less worried about that, Like
I would still say yes to the things I want
to say yes to it, but I wouldn't feel like
I needed to show like I did my first photo
shoot at five weeks, which I probably would say yes
again because it was an amazing opportunity, but I think
it was more motivated than I would be now by

(47:19):
everyone needs to see this. Yeah, So do you feel
less pressure this time to get back to work?

Speaker 1 (47:26):
I agree, I yes, I do. This is what I
meant to say. I I think even simply like the boundaries,
I'm so much better at putting up boundaries, even when
it has come back to these work commitments that we've
had that have come up that are exciting, and you know,
as a business owner, it can't stop just because I'm
on Matt leave, Like things need to keep moving right,

(47:48):
and so whilst I am technically on Matt leave, you know,
some of these things that have come up weren't necessarily
going to happen before I was on Matt leave, and
so you know it is now, it is what it is.
I've all felt really comfortable and being like you know what,
I'm going to do that one virtually, like that meeting,
I'm going to be at home or yes, okay, I
can do that meeting, but can it be between ten

(48:09):
and three? Like you know, I'm like, I don't want
to be stuck in traffic with a screaming new one
in the car because she's coming everywhere with me at
the moment. And yeah, I can do that, but I'll
be wearing her during the entire meeting, so I'll probably
be pacing back and forth. So like I'm a lot
more comfortable with being like yes, but yeah or even
though whereas first time around, I think I really wanted
to show that yeah, like I'm doing it doing and

(48:32):
it's like you want this like metal of like Whereas
I think it's so cool if you can be so
comfortable with saying no, yeah, I admire that so much.
Like even when I'm yeah, trying to catch up with
a friend or whatever if they've got the you know what,
I'm just I really need this weekend with no plans

(48:53):
because I need some meytime. I can go off.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Oh I love it.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Thank you for your honesty. Yeah you're saying that's so
much better. Yeah, cause I get it. So, yeah, I
think it's different in that way that the decisions are
less calculated and more like what do I actually want?

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah? What do you feel? Yeah? That's really interesting. What
about I think another thing having had a platform for
so long that I've found not challenging, just a really
interesting thing that no other generation has really faced before.
That you do bring people along for the ride with
every new chapter, and it's kind of sometimes hard to
change your mind because you're like, everyone's following me because

(49:30):
I did this and now I'm doing this. So you
haven't been posting Billy or as you did post Harvey
for a really long time. And I actually remember I
asked you. I think it was a week or something
after you had just stopped sharing Harvey, but I hadn't.
I didn't know that you'd stopped, and so I was
sort of having them all this like oh my god,
what I do and like remember yeah, And you were like, well,

(49:50):
actually I've just stopped, and I was like, oh my god,
Well tell me everything about your decision, because I'm in
that place as well. And it is a really difficult
area when it is so you used to sharing everything,
every part you really have but you've done it differently
this time.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Yeah, how's that felt? And like what brought it up? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (50:08):
So I think like, first of all, I am so
used to sharing literally everything of my life, like the
ups and downs and everything in between, and so sharing
Harvey was so natural for me. I didn't even think
about it, to be honest, And it was more like
for me, the biggest eye opening moment was when he

(50:29):
started to get recognized when we were out. I kind
of understood it when I was with him, but what
started to happen was my mum would be on a
walk with him and when he was approach out a cafe,
yeah okay, and so it would be like is that Harvey,
or like is that step closes? And I was like
that's not okay. Like number one, how confusing for this
child to have someone come up and know his name.
He's a complete stranger. It also was like that's really unsafe.

(50:53):
But I just was like really uncomfortable with that, and
I felt like, yeah, he was becoming quite recognizable and
he was really growing into his own and he was
probably gonna have the same face now for at least
like the next five years or ten years or whatever.
So I was like, Okay, that was the biggest thing
for me. And then also just learning more about like
what was happening on the Internet and stuff like that,
and like how much I felt comfortable because I did

(51:15):
I reckon I overshared him. But again, it's it's so
hard I think for non content creators who don't share
so much of their life, it's really hard to relate
to holding back, especially when you're with them all the
time and it's a big part of your life. I
didn't really know how else to share that side of

(51:37):
my life if he wasn't in it.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
And also you're like, this is the cutest thing I've
never seen.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Yeah, what I made exactly. So I think when it
came to Billy, it was more just it just felt like, yes,
she's changing every week, like she's not recognizable or whatever.
But I just feel like, because I'd made that decision
already for Harvey, and I was already kind of blocking
him out in ways, I was getting used to navigating

(52:03):
that that I might as well just start that way
with Billy, I will say as well, Like a part
of it was also knowing I was one hundred percent
going to get shit if I started sharing Billy's face
and people would be like, but you block Harvey's face,
so you're just gonna plaster her on the internet, Like,
I'm not gonna lie. That was definitely part of my
decision as well. But yeah, I think at the end
of the day, it was just I'd gotten used to

(52:24):
navigating how I could share him without sharing his face,
and I was like, I could probably do that for Billy,
Like why not? That was pretty much as deep as
I went.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah, Yeah, I think we're fast approaching that chapter where
I'm like same, Like I feel like I probably now
that I reflect on it, I'm like, wow, I've shared
a lot of his life.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
But you're allowed to change your mind. As you said
at the start, I think we need to give like
people who we follow online, they're allowed to make their
own decisions to our conversation before the type of content
that they share, or like the phase of life that
they're in, Like they're allowed to change their minds on
what their feed looks like. And I think his parents
were allowed to change our minds on sleep training or

(53:02):
like whether or not we're co sleeping, or like how
we feed or if we share our kids online. I
think you're allowed to navigate that and change your mind,
and whether people agree with you or like it or not,
like that kind of is what it is, and you
still just need to make the decision for yourself and
your family.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yeah, And I think it's it almost feels like not
even changing my mind, because it's more that the considerations
change at a certain age, like saying with you, it's
like I think once it gets to like eighteen months,
two years, yeah, he's got a more permanent face. I
think that's what it is, get it. And I think
now I look back at photos that I did share,
and I'm like, it doesn't look anything like that. Yeah,

(53:42):
So I feel okay about those being out there.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
And I think what the argument that a lot of
people have as well, over like them having like autonomy
on like what you share and stuff as well. I
think like it's a bit different once your kids, like
in kindergarten and regularly seeing the same kids or at
school or whatever, like what you share, I can see
how that would like affect them or be like yeah,
your mom said, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, Like I

(54:05):
get it. But I think when they're babies, like I
think about if my parents had the Internet.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Yeah, that's how I measure it.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
That's how I think about it. I'm like, if my
parents had the Internet and I knew that they were
sharing me as like a baby, I wouldn't be like
what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yeah, I'd beel like that's a really cute photo, like yeah,
it was so cute. Yeah, I get it, you know, like, wow,
why didn't you share more? Why are the two photos
of me in the nineties? Like I want way more? Yeah, gosh,
it's a really interesting one.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
I think.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
I think we are getting to that stage of like
his face is becoming more permanent and he will be
out and about more without us. But I think before
that it has felt the same, as you said, like
really natural. But yeah, it's it's interesting how things change
as you go along and giving yourself grace to have
a different, a different new opinion. There is a really
random one. I have so many questions, like I could

(54:53):
literally speak to you for hours and hours, but one
that is like so random. But I have struggled with
it a lot, and it's trivial, but it's also not
what are you doing for memory management? So for people
who like take a bajillion photos of.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Our children to say vaginant.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Yes. Actually, that's why I stopped myself because I was like,
I haven't asked as many vagina questions as I thought
that I want to be honest, I thought we'd go
into that a bit more then we can finish on
a vagina questions. But memory management has been something that
I kind of wish I was more organized from day one,
because now I have like one virgillion. They are not organized.

(55:35):
I mean they partly are. I had the best intentions,
but I haven't done any albums. I haven't done like
backing up in the right order. I've done some, but
I think when I get to hopefully if we get
to round two, like I would try and organize my
content and differently, what have you done from memory management?

(55:56):
Like again, it sounds like such a weird thing, but
I post a story about it, and I think I
had more replies about that than any of the other stuff,
because every mom is like, fuck I have it's so true,
so much storage? When I change phones? Like what am
I going to do with all these photos? Do you
organize them? Do you file them? Do you print them?

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Like what do you do?

Speaker 1 (56:12):
True? I think, And it was also funny because I
remember I think one of my favorite pastimes is going
through my family photo albums. Yeah, like I freaking love it,
and I love none.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
For Teddy, it's just like, here, have a phone, look
through all the pictures of your panadols, so I know
what time you took it. It's so true.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
But the thing is is I bought like the old
school albums with the best intention to actually feel them. Right.
Difference is back then they'd take like one photo a month.

Speaker 5 (56:36):
Yeah, I'm taking like fifty a day, so like, how
so quickly the album was filled and it was like
of two weeks and I'm okay, this is so I'm
not using this in the right way.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
So that kind of went very quickly. But no, I
found actually when it comes to like actually like physical
ways of seeing photos. Oh, what's it called. It's I
think it's called chatbooks. This is not sponsored. Ah, just
outloaded the I can found it. But it's called chatbooks.
And I think I spend ten dollars a month and
I get this little mini book. It comes in the

(57:09):
mail and you just put in like thirty odd images
from the month, and then you just get this little
book of like thirty images and I've been doing that
with Harvey since he was about eighteen months old. So
I've got like this little just like these tiny little
books all like lined up. But yeah, there's like thirty
images from the month, which for us is quite easy
to fill.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Yeah, oh my god, that's like like the last half an.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Hour, I have thirty photos. And so yeah, that's been
my way of like still having something physical that I
don't know. I hope that he enjoys the look back
on one day. If not, I will it's like my
modern day photo album.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
No, I'm so glad I asked that, because that's such
a good one for.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
You, right, And I mean, like I can stop the
subscription at any point and stop doing it, but I
really enjoy getting them. And he's kind of now he
likes going to the mailbox and saying, you know them.
But I think when it comes to digitally, none of
that is organized. I really need to get on top
of that. So if anyone listening kinds with any great ideas,
I'll be asking for an update, because yeah, at the moment,

(58:08):
I mean I just I think of like something that
might have happened, and I just have to scroll back
to that month and then go through a bazillion a bazillion. Yeah,
but it's entire.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Answer digitally. Yeah. I like that physically, yeah, yeah, because
I feel like we really don't have any What I've
been trying to do is on my phone. I have
a separate folder called print, and then I have one
for special videos. And so the ones that aren't just
like it every day one like the first time he
walked or the first time he said Dad, they're all
in a different folder. So good. Yeah, My aim is

(58:43):
like back up those, so at least the really special
one on that's but I haven't done it. I mean
it's sixteen months. I haven't done anything with them. But
at least I'm sorting as I go.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
That's good. That's way better than what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Yeah. But is though, because they're still just there, like
I have done anything with them, Like I.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Don't know, would you use Google drive, drop box or
I'll find a hard drive? Like do we what do
we do with them?

Speaker 4 (59:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (59:06):
And that's like why I'm like, people, please tell me
your answers, because surely someone has like what it. I mean,
I would be devastated if my phone now oh same, So,
like what do I do anyway, someone please write in
and tell us the answer, because.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
It's don't just say the chout because I don't understand that.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Yeah me, and it makes me stress. We are so millennial.
I'm like, no, I need to also have it on
a physical heard. Do you print out when you like
get a receipt or like your itinery or something. Do
you like have to screenshot things to make surely?

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Yeah? Absolutely absolutely?

Speaker 4 (59:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Right, good, Okay, so we're in the same era. I
can't trust anything online. Okay, last question, because I've like
gone through this hour Onchinas, I'm literally going to have
to finish on Vaginas. So I randomly found in one
of it. I think it was the October twenty twenty
two episode about matching your partner's libido, and I think
we have a chat about ginas. Yeah, vaginas, right, so

(59:56):
you will like I find it really interesting that you
have always thought that your libido was lower than average
and worried about that, and that was three years ago
in post Harvey. How was your return to using your
virgillion the first time versus now and did you ever

(01:00:17):
kind of resume your normal sex life before like trying
your kind of on the clock, which becomes really clinical again,
So did you ever kind of get your groove back
before you went back? And how's your recovery been this
time versus last time?

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
So I think the first time I had different things
going on. I had bladder prolapse, which just made me
feel a little not so great. I definitely things coming
out of there, so let's not do that. And I
was also like really paranoid about getting pregnant. I don't

(01:00:52):
know stories of like well before I even got my period,
I got pregnant it. I was like, oh, I don't
want to do that. So I went on to contraception
very quickly first time around, and I honestly like Josh
was asking me about it the other day. He was like,
do you remember our first time?

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
I have to have you?

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
And I was like no. He's like, oh, I've been
thinking about it. Can you remember this?

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Oh yeah, I don't remember. I already don't remember, and
it was like not that long over us, I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
I don't. I think I kind of remember being nervous
about it and like feeling a bit tense and stuff
like this is be different. But I don't remember our
first time, but he does cute. Josh, we haven't like
im eight weeks postpart him now I've had the clearance
that it's okay, but we haven't had sex. For me,
I think I want to explore things myself before I

(01:01:43):
do that. I think maybe from my memory of us
getting back into it last time, I was really kind
of like tense and like tighten up. And I think
if I just had maybe spent some time with myself first,
you know, in all the minutes by yourself exactly, I
would have somewhat found more comfort in like letting something
like that happen. And so I think this time around,

(01:02:06):
I'm just kind of taking my time with that. But
at the same time, even though my libido isn't where
Joshes is, and what I've learned since is that it's
not necessarily lower. It's I think it's reactive versus spontaneous
or something like that. So he's very spontaneous you can
think about sex and like be turned on, whereas like
it's a boy thing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
I think we.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Need three stories to be read a book, I.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Need a movie. But yeah, exact sex scene first.

Speaker 6 (01:02:34):
Totally and soon needs to be the house of Alpha
no totally, and so yeah, like I'm sorry, but when
he like rolls over it, and no matter.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
How cutie looks or like if I'm tired on my
mind's not there, it's just like not going to happen
for me. So that's what I've kind of learned, is
that it's not like my libido's non existent. I just
have to have different kind of full play to him,
and like it doesn't come off and spontaneous. Sometimes it does,
but it's very rare that I'll just like randomly feel
like having sex.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
I that's a female thing. Like I just think that
brands aren't as physically wired to just be like bang yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
And so that in itself was hard to navigate. But
what we actually did, I think it was probably after
about six months of having sex again after Harvey, we
did the thirty Day Challenge.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Yeah, that's when I spoke to you. It was at
the end of it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Yeah, so maybe it was a bit further along. I
can't remember when exactly we did it, but we've been
having sex. It wasn't like we went from not having
sex to like, let's do a thirty day challenge. But
for us that helped us find a little bit of
a new rhythm and connect again, because I think what
we found was the way you treat your partner when

(01:03:48):
you know you have to have sex with them. I
have to have sex with them. Oh my god, those words.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
It's true. It's true, like trying exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
And so when you're trying to like find that spark again,
I think knowing that, Okay, we're going to have sex
today because we're in this challenge together, you're a.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Little bit nicer.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
You're a little bit more like I'll cuddle you as
I'm walking past the kitchen or whatever. Like there's those
things like come to you a little bit more because
you're conscious of the fact that you're gonna because otherwise,
if you're like bickering all day and like you're talking
about who did more laundry or whatever, and then you
come to the end and you're like, oh fuck, we
have to have sex.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
My hyman grows back. It's like I'm actually a virgin again. Yeah,
it's just very closed over. Sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
So I think that taught us like little touches here
and there doesn't mean you have to have sexcept whole
we do not have sex every day. It just meant
that that we were still having those little connections and
that's what the challenge I think brought back for us,
which was really nice. Maybe we'll do it again sometime,
I don't know, but yeah, this time around really easying
back into it Josh. I've had to be really honest

(01:04:45):
with Josh, Like a few times he's kind.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Of like brought it up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
He's been really supportive and like not wanting to rush it,
but I've said to him that like even hearing that
he is thinking is thinking about it, yeah, is somewhat
like pressuring. Even I'm like, I know you're not and
I know you wouldn't like you don't want to until
I want to, which I appreciate, but it's still like
I know you're ready, yeah, Like your body hasn't gone

(01:05:11):
through what mine has, like it hasn't ripped open, pushed to.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
A baby as an actual human totally.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
And also the hormone shifts and stuff that I'm working with,
Like it's so, yeah, I'm just not mentally there yet,
and I will tell you or I'll like you'll know,
I'll know, and and I know he's ready when I am,
and that's fine, But it is this like balance of like,
also I want to make sure that he's still kind
of feeling wanted and I don't know, it's an interesting mouth,

(01:05:41):
but we haven't yet. Maybe soon we'll see. I think
we're going to move Billy out of our room. I
think maybe next week or so. That probably help, and
that I think I think that will help, you know,
a bit of a barrier. Hearing something wriggling around the
meter away doesn't really get.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Me there fair enough.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Yeah, so I will see. What I think is just
everyone's really different. Like I've had friends that it was
like six months before they even thought about having sex again.
I think, yeah, you know, we just need to be
patient with it. And I really do think the advice
that I got from my health professionals in that, like,

(01:06:20):
you know, work through stuff with yourself first, was really good.
Not permission, but it was a really good idea because
I think it allows us to kind of just find
what we feel comfortable with and just know for sure
that like, no, it's not going to hurt or anything,
or maybe oh it is actually still tender. So I'm
glad that I didn't try that with someone else, even

(01:06:42):
though it's your partner. And yeah, yeah, you know, yeah,
I think it's a good tip, but I haven't done yet.
Josh was like, are you going to take you a vibrator?
I was like, am I going to take my vibrator
to whom? I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Probably not like when there's people were checking on me
every twenty minutes and like making sure I've enough water,
I don't think I want to say my vibrainer.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Also, it's like, if I'm having time, I'm going to
sleep exactly. Oh well, Steph, thank you so much as
always for being so open and such a delight. I
literally could have asked you, like a thousand more questions,
jillion more questions. Virgillians are one in your favorite one.
But we will have to do this again. I mean,

(01:07:25):
are you thinking of having more? Do you want to
have more? You even thought of that?

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
It's we have. It's funny. It's like I don't think
we're ready to make the full decision yet, but I
think we're like eighty five percent sure that we're done. Yeah, okay,
I think we're getting there. I think I need to
get out of this, like her head smells like heaven,
where my body is like go again, make it. And

(01:07:50):
I mean I grew up with an older brother and
I loved that dynamic of the two of us, so
I'm yeah, more than happy, more than happy with the
two of them.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
But we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
I don't know, but we'll have our.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Normal three to five yearly re record with an update
on either there will be another one. Maybe they won't be,
there will be who knows, and maybe there'll be one
for you I know, actually, yeah, that will be the
next I've kind of done this leap program, so I
feel like that would work. But I mean, isn't that
the great beauty of this amazing life that you have

(01:08:26):
no idea what we would be talking exactly three to
five years. Yeah, that's kind of amazing. Yeah, thank you
so much for sharing, and I hope you enjoy this
incredible place for the rest of your stay.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Oh my god, it's the best. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Oh, this one was so good for the soul. I
hope you guys enjoyed it as much as we both did.
There are parts of me that don't necessarily want motherhood
to consume my entire identity, but I do just gravitate
towards these validating, embracing conversations of solidarity, and I loved
every minute of this with Stephie, particularly because we have
shared so many chapters together. As mentioned, Steph has very

(01:09:02):
kindly given us a code for kickapp. It's sees the
no spaces for a month free when you sign up
to kick on a monthly subscription. Check the show notes
for the direct link and more details over there, and
as always, if you enjoyed, please thanks Steph for her
time and openness by sharing and tagging at Steph Claire
Smith or at kickapp, showing her some love. In the meantime,

(01:09:25):
much more to come for both streams of the show.
It is all systems go over here. I hope you're
having a wonderful week and us seizing your ya

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Seize the Bébé // Steph Miller on second bubs, sense of self and staying at Homb

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

All Episodes

Seize the Bébé // Steph Miller on second bubs, sense of self and staying at Homb

Stuff You Should Know