October 16, 2024 • 39 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, chandler Bolt.
Here and joining me today isWendy Weiss.
Wendy is the founder ofSalesology and she's the creator
of the Salesology ProspectingMethod.
She's an author, having writtenmultiple books.
She's been featured in the NewYork Times and a bunch of other
places.
She's got clients, includingpeople you know, probably,
probably know like avon, adp,new york life, tons of
(00:25):
entrepreneurs and big companiesas well.
Uh, today we're gonna betalking about sales, dun, dun
dun.
Uh, some of you love it, someof you hate it, some of you love
to hate it.
We always talk about sam andsales and marketing and putting
your, your, your, sam hat on andlearning to embrace sales and
marketing.
Well, today we're going to zoomin on the S in Sam, which is
(00:47):
sales, and Wendy's a greatresource to do that.
So, wendy, welcome.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I am fabulous.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I want to start with this.
So you mentioned the nightbefore this when you were
talking.
You said I published I think itwas your first book or one of
your first books and used thatbook to start a business.
We were kind of talking, hey, alot of folks in our audience,
some of them they have abusiness already and they want
to plug in their book and justscale that business.
Some folks are thinking, hey, Ijust wrote the book, I didn't
(01:17):
even know there was a wholebusiness on this.
So it's kind of like this bigleap.
We'll talk about, obviously,sales skills to scale your
already existing business later.
But for starters, what was thatjourney like for you and how
did you go from publishing thebook to starting a business on
the back end of that?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
That is a great question.
Thank you so much for asking,and I'm actually going to take a
couple of steps back.
My company is Salesology.
We're sales trainers.
We teach business owners andentrepreneurs how to grow their
business, and I was neversupposed to be a sales trainer.
(01:56):
My first career was actually Idanced in a ballet company and I
danced with Pittsburgh BalletTheater and I danced with the
Cincinnati Ballet.
As you may know, ballet is oneof the most difficult and
exacting art forms, and I gotinto my current career
completely by accident, becauseI needed a day job and in
(02:19):
between dance gigs.
And I got a job with atelemarketing agency that did
business development and, luckyfor me, they taught me this
skill set.
It was life changing Because afew years later it enabled me to
build a business.
And so what happened was Ipretty much danced till I
(02:40):
couldn't walk.
Till I couldn't walk, I neededa hip replacement and I started
to think well, what should I do,since I clearly I'm not going
to be able to keep dancingprofessionally?
And I took a class at theLearning Annex in New York City
(03:01):
I'm dating myself because theLearning Annex is no longer
around.
Because the Learning Annex isno longer around, taught by Fred
Gleek a shout out to Fred.
It was called how to Be aThousand-Dollar-a-Day Consultant
.
It was in the late 90s andFred's whole philosophy was
write a book, because you becomean instant expert.
And he gave us the book formula, which was 25.
(03:24):
I remember it to this day 25topics, write four subtopics
under each topic.
Write two pages on each.
You have a 200-page book.
So I said to myself, what do Iknow how to do that people will
pay me for?
Well, I know how to do businessdevelopment.
(03:47):
I'll write a book on coldcalling.
And I wrote my first book usingFred's formula.
It came out in 2000.
(04:09):
It was called Cold Calling forWomen.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
It had a big pink phone on the cover and I
self-published and that is how Ilaunched my training business
was by writing that book.
I love that and I also love howspecific you were with that
book.
I think a lot of times peoplethey try to please everyone with
their book and they're scaredto niche down, but I'd love for
you to speak on that.
Was that successful?
Are you glad that you did that?
And I'm talking aboutspecifically going cold, calling
for women and kind of leaninginto that.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Oh, absolutely.
First of all, just writing thebook.
I knew what I was doing becauseI'd been trained at that day
job all those years ago, but Ididn't have a process to share
it with somebody else andwriting the book, just getting
it down, enabled me to outlinethe process and the model that I
(04:56):
still use to this day anddeciding to write a book called
Cold Calling for Women asopposed to Cold Calling for
Everyone.
It's kind of a funny story.
My metaphor is dance.
I believe that everything Iknow in life and in business I
(05:17):
learned in ballet class and Iuse the model which we can go
through, but I used the modelthat I learned in ballet class
as a framework for sales, and sowhen I wrote Cold Calling for
Women, it was all kind of abouthow cold calling is a lot like
(05:37):
dancing, and as I was writing it, I was sharing the book with
colleagues that I'd met alongthe path, asking for, you know,
testimonials and things so Icould market it.
When it was done was a fairlyfamous and well-known sales
(06:04):
trainer said to me no guy isever going to read this book.
Call it cold calling for women,because I was writing about
being a ballet dancer and Ithought, huh, that's interesting
.
So then I did some research andat the time I think it was
women bought something like 67or 70% of all the trade
(06:27):
paperbacks in the market.
So I thought, okay, coldcalling for women.
And one of the things that Idid learn through this process,
and it was really verytransformational for me, because
as a dancer, you are alwaysreaching for perfection.
(06:48):
But all I had to do for thebook was to write it.
I had to get it down on paper.
It did not have to be perfect,it just had to be written.
And that was a very freeingexperience, because I know as a
dancer and then also fromworking with many of my clients,
(07:09):
when you think everything's gotto be absolutely perfect, it is
really hard to take stepsforward.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, Done is better than perfect a lot of times,
especially the rough draft ofyour book.
Right, Then you can get itedited, then you can improve it,
then you can make it better.
But you can't edit or publish arough draft that you haven't
finished.
Right and so getting it,getting it done, I love just
going back to just niching downhere, Cause again, I think so
(07:39):
many people would just say, ohman, I can't do that.
I got to write cold calling foreveryone.
I have a hunch but I'd love tohear if this is true or not that
you still had men by the book.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I had tons of men by the book.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I used to.
When the book came out, I did alot of speaking and I'd go to
various events or networkinggroups or whatever and I would
talk about prospecting andbusiness development.
And then, of course, I wouldhave my book for sale there and
men would come up to me and gopick up a copy of the book and
they'd say this is for men too,right?
(08:14):
And I'd say right, and they'dbuy the book.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Cool, that's funny and I think that's you know.
So I'm just double clicking,triple clicking on this point
for everyone listening.
Don't be afraid to niche downwith your book and with your
topic.
Wendy, I want to shift gears alittle bit.
Let's talk sales.
I think a lot of peoplelistening to this or might have
a preconceived notion.
I think, oh, that's great forWendy, that's great for Chandler
(08:40):
, they like sales or they'regood at sales.
Do you feel like sales isnature or nurture?
And what's your advice for thetrepidatious person who's like
hey, I know that I need to learnthis skill, but I'm a little
bit scared to do it.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
That's a great question.
That's sort of the foundationalquestion and you know I will
share with our audience.
You know there's this myth ofthe born salesperson that
somehow there are these peopleout there that are just born
knowing what to do and knowingwhat to say.
This is a myth.
It's not true.
I'm not a born salesperson.
I'm a lucky person because whenI got that day job all those
(09:19):
years ago, they taught me thisskill set.
Learning the skill set wastransformational and enabled me
to build a business.
And you know the great Russianballerina, anna Pavlova she was.
She danced in the late 19th andearly 20th century, first
(09:40):
ballerina to tour the world withher own company.
She very famously said no onearrives from talent alone.
Work transforms talent intogenius.
Anna Pavlova was born with alot of talent to dance and then
she trained at the ImperialRussian Ballet School, which
enabled her to join the ImperialRussian Ballet.
(10:02):
And if she hadn't done that shewould never have done any of
the things that she did later inher life.
You know we just finished theOlympics.
All of those athletes.
They had a lot of talent butthey also trained.
You know, think of all thetalented athletes that are out
there that have never made it tothe Olympics or played pro
sports, to the Olympics orplayed pro sports.
(10:23):
Talent alone is not enough.
It is a learned skill.
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And then I want to get into some of the frameworks
that you teach and you talkedabout.
Learn from ballet Before we dothat.
For those who don't know what'sthe difference between sales
and prospecting as you see it,and why are both important?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
They are both absolutely important, and the
thing that's too bad is thatprospecting is often taught as a
subset of sales and it'sactually a very specific skill
set, and the way I think aboutit is it's like dating If you
(11:09):
want to go on a date withsomeone, you've got to ask them
first.
If and when they say yes, thenyou go on the date.
So prospecting is like askingfor the date, selling is like
going on the date.
So essentially, what you aredoing when you are prospecting
(11:33):
is saying to someone that youdon't really know or don't
really know very well, I'd liketo have a conversation with you
about whatever it is you do, andwhen they say yes, I'd like to
have that conversation, then youhave the conversation.
So it's really it's twodifferent skill sets.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Right, yeah, I agree with that.
I think some call them likehunters or farmers or, you know,
like different types of salesand stuff.
Let's start to talk about, kindof, some of the frameworks that
you teach and through that lens, are they different with
prospecting and sales?
Is there some overlap?
(12:13):
Mostly the same.
How do you teach thatdifferently, based on if someone
is dedicated to prospectingversus selling?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's a great question.
The framework remains the same.
The difference is within thesteps of the framework
prospecting versus selling.
So I said earlier that Ibelieve that everything I know
in life and business I learnedin ballet class.
And this is what I learned inballet class.
(12:42):
It's my three-step salesologymodel.
If you're a ballet dancer andyou have a performance, you
don't just run out on stage andstart dancing.
You have to warm up, because ifyou don't warm up, you risk
having a career-ending injury.
(13:02):
Elite athletes do the samething.
They're not running out on thefield and just playing the game.
They warm up so that they don'thave a career-ending injury.
There are things that you, as abusiness owner, entrepreneur,
there are things you need tohave in place so that you don't
hurt yourself and you don't hurtyour bottom line, that you warm
(13:23):
up, and that is things like aclear definition of your
prospect.
What makes a great lead for youin your market with your
offering?
Who do you serve?
And a lot of business owners,entrepreneurs they don't.
(13:43):
We were talking about nichingdown before You've got to do
that.
You've got to know who you'respeaking with, because that then
enables you to have therelevant conversation.
That then enables you to havethe relevant conversation, and
you also need to know how areyou going to try and engage with
(14:04):
people.
Are you calling them, are youemailing them?
Are you texting them?
Are you reaching out on socialmedia Like, what are you doing?
What is your process?
So these are all elements ofthe warm-up.
Just what are the steps?
You know who are you reachingout to, what are you going to do
, what's your process?
So these are all elements ofthe warmup.
Just what are the steps?
You know who are you reachingout to, what are you going to do
, what's your message?
You have to have that in placeso you don't hurt yourself.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Hey Chandler Bolt here.
I hope you're loving thisepisode so far.
It's time to go frominspiration to implementation.
All right, so if you've learnedsomething, we want to help you
implement what you've learnedwith your book.
So what I want you to do rightnow is go to selfpublishingcom
forward, slash schedule book apublishing consultation with one
of the experts on my team.
(14:48):
We'll talk about your goals foryour book, your dreams, your
challenges, your next steps andwe'll start putting together a
plan.
All right, so go toselfpublishingcom forward, slash
schedule book a call with theteam.
Let's see how we can help withyour book.
It's time to implement.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
The next step, step number two, is to rehearse.
If you're a dancer and you havea concert coming up again, you
don't just run out on stage andstart dancing.
You have been rehearsing formonths and when you rehearse you
learn the choreography, youlearn the steps and you practice
(15:32):
them over and over and overagain until you don't have to
think about it.
You can just execute.
It's muscle memory.
So the same is true whetherit's prospecting or sales.
You need to have that rehearsalprocess so you're prepared, so
that when you're speaking with aprospect, you know how you're
going to introduce yourself, youknow how you're going to answer
(15:55):
questions, because we know whatpeople ask and we know the
objections that prospects have.
So just, you're prepared.
And then the third step onceyou have warmed up, so like
everything's set up so you don'thurt yourself, You've rehearsed
, you have automatic musclememory.
Step three then, and only thenis it time to perform.
(16:18):
The problem is most people theyjust skip the warm up and the
rehearsal, and that doesn't work.
And here's the other thing thatis so wonderful about following
these three steps Lots ofpeople and you mentioned it,
Chandler, a lot of people saythey're scared.
(16:39):
You know they're afraid of beingrejected, or you know and to me
this is a lot like stage fright, and I have been there You're
waiting in the wings, you knowyou're waiting for your cue.
Your heart is pounding, yourpalms are sweaty and you think
you are going to throw up, butthen you hear your music and you
(17:02):
get out on stage and you dance.
Well, what enables you to dothat when you're so scared?
Well, you've warmed up.
So, like, you're prepared,You've rehearsed, You've got
automatic muscle memory.
That's what enables performance, that's what enables execution,
and what I've seen in all theyears I've been doing.
(17:22):
This is for most people.
When they have a system andthey're following the system and
they know what they're doingevery step along the path, and
they've rehearsed, so they havethat automatic muscle memory, a
lot of that fear goes away.
It enables them to be effective, and so that system, that's the
(17:45):
salesology system.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Love it.
And I think to your point thebetter the warmup, the better
the rehearsal, the moreconfident the performance,
Exactly.
So it becomes a positive loopinstead of a negative loop of
had it warm up, I didn't reallyrehearse, I went to perform and
went horribly OK.
Now I'm never doing this againor I'm going to be very
trepidatious and lack confidencethe next time I do it.
(18:10):
And sales is a transfer ofemotion in the person with the
most certainty wins Right, andso if you're not confident on
that call, well then that leadsto a lot more no's, which leads
to less.
I mean it's kind of like thisdoom loop.
Do you ever find Wendy I meanyou said a lot, you said a lot
of people skip the warm up andrehearsal stage and go straight
to perform?
I could see that being the case, especially in companies where
(18:33):
you have opportunities kind ofput on your plate.
I can almost see the oppositebeing true for startups or
people who are trying to gettheir first customers is they
spend all their time warming up,rehearsing, as almost like an
avoidance of doing the thingthat they need to do, which is
prospect and get opportunities,so that they can then have an
(18:55):
opportunity to perform.
Do you see that or no?
If so, what's?
What's your recommendation forsomeone to kind of persevere
through that and get their firstopportunities or at bats on
their calendar?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
That is a great question, because it's very much
like what we were talking aboutwith writing a book.
At some point, you know done isdone is better than perfect.
You've got to write the bookand it's true here as well and
part of the process is theexecution, because, like any
(19:29):
kind of marketing campaign oreven if you're taking a ballet
class, you're always tweakingwhat you're doing.
But you have to do it in orderto tweak it, and so one of the
things that we have our clientsdo if they're really
uncomfortable, we will have themput together a list of practice
(19:51):
leads.
I always recommend you divideyour leads into A's, b's and C's
, and the A's are the great ones.
That's like your wishlist.
You really want to work withthat company.
B's are really good.
C stands for crummy.
So put together a list of Cleads and practice on them.
(20:12):
It's going to be low stress,you're not going to blow any
great opportunities and you getto try things out.
And once you've done that, thenyou can start calling your A's
and B's.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Cool, I like that a lot.
That's really good.
So start with C leads.
What would be?
Because I want to get into moreadvanced stuff here in just a
second.
But one last question on thebeginner side of things what
would be your tips for folks?
Get into more advanced stuffhere in just a second.
But one last question on thebeginner side of things what
would be your tips for folkslet's say, hey, I've published
my book and now I'm strugglingto get my first at-bats, so my
first people on the phone toactually have a sales
conversation and see aboutworking with me.
(20:49):
What are your thoughts orrecommendations for those folks
specific to prospecting, maybeeven using their book to get
first at bats or first sales?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
conversations.
Well, you know, it's reallyinteresting because when I was
writing my book, it wasn'tfinished, it wasn't published.
I just started telling peopleI'm writing a book.
And telling people that you arewriting a book is almost as
good as having written a book.
People get very impressed andyou can use that as an entree to
(21:25):
the conversation that you wantto have.
I used to go to variousnetworking events and say, you
know, talking to people and hey,yeah, I'm writing a book, it's
on cold calling.
Oh, they'd be very impressed,they'd want to know more and I
was able to have thatconversation.
Later on, when I actually hadthe book, I was able to give it
(21:47):
out, I gave it away, gave it topeople that I wanted to talk to.
When you give people a gift,talk to.
When you give people a gift,they are much more likely to
want to engage with you.
It's reciprocity.
So that's just very easy.
(22:07):
You know, on this topic, useyour book that you are writing
or that you've finished, usethat as an entree.
And the other thing is, this isreally a skill set.
You know, when you think toyourself, I'm just, I'm just
gonna start calling people,there's a lot of I mean, that's
(22:29):
a great impulse, but there's alot of things you the warm up
that you need to have in placefirst, and if you need help
doing that, get yourself somehelp.
Our website is gosalesologycom.
We have all sorts of resourcesavailable there.
If you hate everything I'msaying today, go find somebody
(22:51):
else.
There's help out there.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, that's good, I like that.
And so I heard a few thingsthere that stuck out.
One was use your book as theentree, and so for a lot of
folks just saying, hey, here's acopy of my book for free
digital, physical, whatever elsehey, I'd also love to chat with
you further about how I canhelp you implement this in your
business.
Right, it's just a good,straightforward ask.
Also, you know when we're goingthrough, when you're publishing
(23:18):
your book and marketing yourbook.
It's a great warmup for this,especially for people who have
never done it before.
One of the big things as anauthor, you're asking for
reviews.
It's one of the most importantthings for the success of your
book.
So it's not a sale, right, butit at least gets you out of your
comfort zone to get a yes or ano of hey, can you leave a
review on my book?
And then, one thing that'sreally helped with me there was
(23:40):
a guy on the podcast the otherday, ray Higdon.
He talked about go for no andjust like getting five no's a
day, which actually, as I'vestarted trying this, it's really
hard.
It's really hard to get fiveno's a day, but just shifting
that, that framework of hey, I'mnot scared of no's, I need to
get them to hit my quota for theday.
(24:01):
It just.
It was a really interestingreframe for me to just encourage
prospecting, prospecting andencourage asking people just
like hey, here's a specific askor a specific thing that they
have the ability to say yes orno to.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yes, and I'll piggyback on what you just said
and share.
I used to have a friend namedArlene who was an actress, and
this was the game.
I dubbed it Arlene's game.
But this is the game that shewould play when going to
auditions because, as I'm sureeverybody knows, auditions are
(24:40):
really hard and you can get alot of no's.
So she would give herself onepoint every time she went to an
audition and did not get the job.
When she got to 100, she won.
She would get herself a prize,you know, and it wasn't
necessarily a big prize, youknow.
(25:01):
Maybe she went to a movie shewanted to see.
She'd do something nice forherself to reward herself for
getting 100 points, 100 no's.
And the thing is, if you get100 no's, there are going to be
some yeses in there Because, asyou said, chandler, it's hard to
get that 100 no's.
There are going to be someyeses in there Because, as you
said, chandler, it's hard to getthat many no's.
So if you do that consistently,just play Arlene's game.
(25:26):
Give yourself a point for everyno, get to 100.
Give yourself a prize.
That kind of shifts your focusand enables you to do what you
need to do.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Love that.
Play the game.
A couple of final questions andwe'll go a little bit, a little
bit more advanced.
Let's talk about oh man, Icould ask hours of questions on
sales stuff let's talk about.
I want to do one more advancedquestion and one and like an on
the spot case study, which Ithink will be fun.
(25:57):
What are, what do you feel likeare the skills it takes, or the
traits that you look for forsomeone to be great at sales?
So these are either skills ortraits that people can foster
who are trying to get good atsales, or skills to look for
when hiring great sales talent.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Two great questions.
So I'll start with the firstone, just the traits of somebody
that would make a greatsalesperson.
Because again, there's thismyth about the born salesperson
and like these people with thegift of gab, and you know I mean
that is complete BS.
It is not true.
I'm an introvert.
Introverts make greatsalespeople because they can
(26:47):
listen, so you're notnecessarily looking for somebody
that can talk nonstop.
The biggest determining factorfor me is is someone open to
learning this skill and doingsomething that is different from
whatever it is they're used todoing?
You know, we have people thatcome to our programs that don't
(27:11):
really want to do anythingthat's different from what
they're used to doing, andnothing changes when you do that
if you're not open.
But if you're open and you'rewilling to try things, then you
can learn, and so that to me, isthe biggest determining factor
(27:33):
In terms of hiring.
Here are the mistakes that Isee.
Business owners come to me andsay I want to hire a salesperson
.
I say great, what do you havein place for them?
The answer is usually nothing.
If you want to hire asalesperson, there are things
(27:55):
you need to have in place forthem.
And, going back to the warm-up.
Clear definition of what's agreat lead.
Clear definition of the process.
Clear definition of the message.
They're telling your story.
You want them to tell it well,so you need to have these things
in place for them.
You need to have it benchmarked.
(28:18):
You know, one of the things thatwe do in our programs is we
help people track what they'redoing so that they know exactly
how they're doing and what works, because numbers don't lie.
So if you know your numbers,then you can hire someone.
They should be able, at a bareminimum, to do what you do,
(28:44):
since you're doing a millionother things.
So you need to have that inplace.
And when?
Here are the two pieces ofadvice that I give my clients
that are looking to hire that dohave their process defined and
in place.
The first thing is you'relooking for someone that can
talk, so set up a voicemail.
(29:06):
Don't have them send youresumes.
Set up a voicemail and have themleave you a message, because if
they can't leave a coherentmessage, they're not going to be
a really great salesperson.
So start there.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
That's a really fun idea.
Sorry, you had one more, onemore.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And then, when you're interviewing people, I have a
client that has said to me onmultiple occasions that the best
sales job some of hissalespeople ever did was getting
him to hire them.
So what you want to do is findout if someone is coachable, and
(29:48):
so, when you are interviewingthem, have them do some kind of
role play, give them a script,or have them sell you a pencil,
or just have them do something,critique them, tell them to go
home and practice, and then havethem come back.
The people that you're lookingfor will take whatever it is
(30:12):
you've told them to do andthey'll work on it and they'll
fix it.
Will take whatever it is you'vetold them to do and they'll
work on it and they'll fix it.
You don't want to hire thepeople that give you all the
reasons that they did what theydid and how they did it at their
old job and they think there'sa better way of doing it and
they want to tell you those arenot the people you're looking
for.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
So those are my two cents, my two pieces of advice.
If you are looking to hire,three pieces, have the process
documented.
You're looking for people thatcan talk and you're looking for
people that are coachable.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
That's great.
That's great Coachable, they'rea learner.
Probably they're hungry.
All those things translatereally well.
I want to do a little mini casestudy here and get your take on
this.
Hopefully this will be helpfulfor the audience.
So we have a sales team of Gosh.
We've got probably four or fiveSDRs and maybe six or seven
(31:11):
sales reps.
So for people listening whodon't know, sdr is kind of
prospector or setter, like whenhe was talking about sales reps
or some would call it anexecutive, right.
So that's, we've been all remoteand literally just yesterday we
opened our first ever office.
So we're about 50, 60 employeesin total.
We opened our first office andwe're building on an in-person
(31:32):
sales team.
And what's super interesting tome is you know previously when
we're recruiting, when we'rehiring all that stuff.
I mean we just we can hireanywhere.
I mean they need to be on adecent time zone, but US, canada
, south America, as long asthey're good, speak great
English and can sell, we canhire from anywhere.
And now we're really shrinkingthat, obviously because we're
(31:55):
building out an in-person officeand it's just a totally new
learning curve.
So I guess my question for you,wendy, would be how would you
approach that if you were me,and how would you look for or
change your recruiting approachto get really good local sales
talent?
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I'm not sure that the approach would change
significantly.
I mean, you still need to havethat process in place.
You're still looking for peoplethat can talk and you're still
looking for people that arecoachable.
It's obviously the area whereyou are recruiting has shrunk
(32:36):
and so that that to me, you knowyou still, you still need to
have those three things in place.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Right, I guess my question is on the recruiting
front, because, because wedefinitely have all those in
place, we've got a really good,well-documented sales process
that similar, similar criteriais what you're talking about.
We don't have the voicemailthing.
I like that a lot and and justtesting early on, early on in
our interview process, we'llhave, we'll do calls, we'll have
people do a couple of calls andjust listen and give them our
(33:07):
script and say, hey, do a coupleof calls, let's, let's review,
and that's like a part of ourinterview process.
We're based in Austin, texas,and so I guess the real puzzle
for me is like, okay, you havekind of like Indeed, you have
LinkedIn, you have other placesthat you can recruit and kind of
cast a wide net.
Those still exist, obviously inAustin, but to your point it's
(33:29):
much more localized, and so mybrain's kind of spinning on hey,
where is that talent in thiscity that we go recruit?
Like anything you've seen forlocal recruiting that's worked
really well.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Well, I think we use your local network.
If you've got people that arealready on your team who do they
know that might be a greatsalesperson.
I was talking to a clientyesterday who they've got a
couple of people on their teamright now that are not really
(34:05):
working out and she's likethat's okay because I want to
hire my daughter and there arethree or four people from my
previous job that I also want tohire, so she's all prepared.
If these people that are notworking out, if they leave,
she's got a plan B and she's gotpeople that she's already
(34:25):
vetted because she knows them.
You know, and so I think that,especially when you're
recruiting locally, your peopleknow people and they know what
the criteria are because they'realready on the team.
They know what they had to gothrough, they know what you're
(34:46):
looking for.
So that is the resource that Iwould leverage is the people you
already know.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Cool, Love it.
Lots of learn.
It's a lot of fun, Wendy, acouple of final questions for
you.
One would be knowing what youknow now.
What would be your partingpiece of advice specific to
learning and getting good at theskill set of sales for all of
our authors out there?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Well, I'll go back to what I said earlier.
Basically, what we're talkingabout is the communication skill
.
It can be learned, and actuallywe have a gift for our audience
that will help, because we havebeen talking today about sales
mindset, and so the gift that Ihave for everyone today is the
(35:39):
Master your Sales Mindset videoseries, and it's a series of
short videos to help you justkind of reframe the way you're
thinking about this, becausethat's really where it all
starts is in your head, and onceyou're open to learning, then
(36:01):
you can learn.
So, and I believe you have thelink, chandler, and you'll be
able to put that out there withthis podcast.
So, you know, I invite peopleto do that and also to visit us
gosalesologycom, connect with meon LinkedIn and listen to my
(36:26):
podcast.
Wherever you get your podcasts,it's Salesology Conversations
with Sales Leaders, becausethese are all resources that you
can use to educate yourself tolearn this skill set, which is a
perfectly learnable skill set.
I did it, and if I did it, youcan do it.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Cool.
I love that.
I'm looking you up on LinkedInright now, wendy.
Guys, I hope you've enjoyedthis.
Check out we've got the link inthe show notes to this free
gift that Wendy just mentioned.
Check out.
We've got the link in the shownotes to this free gift that
Wendy just mentioned, the salesmindset training.
So go to the show notes.
You'll find the link there.
It's the master your salesmindset free training, wendy.
Thank you so much.
(37:06):
This was awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Thank you, Chandler.
Hey, chandler Bolt.
Here and joining me today isWendy Weiss.
Wendy is the founder ofSalesology and she's the creator
of the Salesology ProspectingMethod.
She's an author, having writtenmultiple books.
She's been featured in the NewYork Times and a bunch of other
places.
She's got clients, includingpeople you know, probably,
probably know like avon, adp,new york life, tons of
(00:25):
entrepreneurs and big companiesas well.
Uh, today we're gonna betalking about sales, dun, dun
dun.
Uh, some of you love it, someof you hate it, some of you love
to hate it.
We always talk about sam andsales and marketing and putting
your, your, your, sam hat on andlearning to embrace sales and
marketing.
Well, today we're going to zoomin on the S in Sam, which is
(00:47):
sales, and Wendy's a greatresource to do that.
So, wendy, welcome.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I am fabulous.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I want to start with this.
So you mentioned the nightbefore this when you were
talking.
You said I published I think itwas your first book or one of
your first books and used thatbook to start a business.
We were kind of talking, hey, alot of folks in our audience,
some of them they have abusiness already and they want
to plug in their book and justscale that business.
Some folks are thinking, hey, Ijust wrote the book, I didn't
(01:17):
even know there was a wholebusiness on this.
So it's kind of like this bigleap.
We'll talk about, obviously,sales skills to scale your
already existing business later.
But for starters, what was thatjourney like for you and how
did you go from publishing thebook to starting a business on
the back end of that?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
That is a great question.
Thank you so much for asking,and I'm actually going to take a
couple of steps back.
My company is Salesology.
We're sales trainers.
We teach business owners andentrepreneurs how to grow their
business, and I was neversupposed to be a sales trainer.
(01:56):
My first career was actually Idanced in a ballet company and I
danced with Pittsburgh BalletTheater and I danced with the
Cincinnati Ballet.
As you may know, ballet is oneof the most difficult and
exacting art forms, and I gotinto my current career
completely by accident, becauseI needed a day job and in
(02:19):
between dance gigs.
And I got a job with atelemarketing agency that did
business development and, luckyfor me, they taught me this
skill set.
It was life changing Because afew years later it enabled me to
build a business.
And so what happened was Ipretty much danced till I
(02:40):
couldn't walk.
Till I couldn't walk, I neededa hip replacement and I started
to think well, what should I do,since I clearly I'm not going
to be able to keep dancingprofessionally?
And I took a class at theLearning Annex in New York City
(03:01):
I'm dating myself because theLearning Annex is no longer
around.
Because the Learning Annex isno longer around, taught by Fred
Gleek a shout out to Fred.
It was called how to Be aThousand-Dollar-a-Day Consultant
.
It was in the late 90s andFred's whole philosophy was
write a book, because you becomean instant expert.
And he gave us the book formula, which was 25.
(03:24):
I remember it to this day 25topics, write four subtopics
under each topic.
Write two pages on each.
You have a 200-page book.
So I said to myself, what do Iknow how to do that people will
pay me for?
Well, I know how to do businessdevelopment.
(03:47):
I'll write a book on coldcalling.
And I wrote my first book usingFred's formula.
It came out in 2000.
(04:09):
It was called Cold Calling forWomen.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
It had a big pink phone on the cover and I
self-published and that is how Ilaunched my training business
was by writing that book.
I love that and I also love howspecific you were with that
book.
I think a lot of times peoplethey try to please everyone with
their book and they're scaredto niche down, but I'd love for
you to speak on that.
Was that successful?
Are you glad that you did that?
And I'm talking aboutspecifically going cold, calling
for women and kind of leaninginto that.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Oh, absolutely.
First of all, just writing thebook.
I knew what I was doing becauseI'd been trained at that day
job all those years ago, but Ididn't have a process to share
it with somebody else andwriting the book, just getting
it down, enabled me to outlinethe process and the model that I
(04:56):
still use to this day anddeciding to write a book called
Cold Calling for Women asopposed to Cold Calling for
Everyone.
It's kind of a funny story.
My metaphor is dance.
I believe that everything Iknow in life and in business I
(05:17):
learned in ballet class and Iuse the model which we can go
through, but I used the modelthat I learned in ballet class
as a framework for sales, and sowhen I wrote Cold Calling for
Women, it was all kind of abouthow cold calling is a lot like
(05:37):
dancing, and as I was writing it, I was sharing the book with
colleagues that I'd met alongthe path, asking for, you know,
testimonials and things so Icould market it.
When it was done was a fairlyfamous and well-known sales
(06:04):
trainer said to me no guy isever going to read this book.
Call it cold calling for women,because I was writing about
being a ballet dancer and Ithought, huh, that's interesting
.
So then I did some research andat the time I think it was
women bought something like 67or 70% of all the trade
(06:27):
paperbacks in the market.
So I thought, okay, coldcalling for women.
And one of the things that Idid learn through this process,
and it was really verytransformational for me, because
as a dancer, you are alwaysreaching for perfection.
(06:48):
But all I had to do for thebook was to write it.
I had to get it down on paper.
It did not have to be perfect,it just had to be written.
And that was a very freeingexperience, because I know as a
dancer and then also fromworking with many of my clients,
(07:09):
when you think everything's gotto be absolutely perfect, it is
really hard to take stepsforward.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, Done is better than perfect a lot of times,
especially the rough draft ofyour book.
Right, Then you can get itedited, then you can improve it,
then you can make it better.
But you can't edit or publish arough draft that you haven't
finished.
Right and so getting it,getting it done, I love just
going back to just niching downhere, Cause again, I think so
(07:39):
many people would just say, ohman, I can't do that.
I got to write cold calling foreveryone.
I have a hunch but I'd love tohear if this is true or not that
you still had men by the book.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I had tons of men by the book.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I used to.
When the book came out, I did alot of speaking and I'd go to
various events or networkinggroups or whatever and I would
talk about prospecting andbusiness development.
And then, of course, I wouldhave my book for sale there and
men would come up to me and gopick up a copy of the book and
they'd say this is for men too,right?
(08:14):
And I'd say right, and they'dbuy the book.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Cool, that's funny and I think that's you know.
So I'm just double clicking,triple clicking on this point
for everyone listening.
Don't be afraid to niche downwith your book and with your
topic.
Wendy, I want to shift gears alittle bit.
Let's talk sales.
I think a lot of peoplelistening to this or might have
a preconceived notion.
I think, oh, that's great forWendy, that's great for Chandler
(08:40):
, they like sales or they'regood at sales.
Do you feel like sales isnature or nurture?
And what's your advice for thetrepidatious person who's like
hey, I know that I need to learnthis skill, but I'm a little
bit scared to do it.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
That's a great question.
That's sort of the foundationalquestion and you know I will
share with our audience.
You know there's this myth ofthe born salesperson that
somehow there are these peopleout there that are just born
knowing what to do and knowingwhat to say.
This is a myth.
It's not true.
I'm not a born salesperson.
I'm a lucky person because whenI got that day job all those
(09:19):
years ago, they taught me thisskill set.
Learning the skill set wastransformational and enabled me
to build a business.
And you know the great Russianballerina, anna Pavlova she was.
She danced in the late 19th andearly 20th century, first
(09:40):
ballerina to tour the world withher own company.
She very famously said no onearrives from talent alone.
Work transforms talent intogenius.
Anna Pavlova was born with alot of talent to dance and then
she trained at the ImperialRussian Ballet School, which
enabled her to join the ImperialRussian Ballet.
(10:02):
And if she hadn't done that shewould never have done any of
the things that she did later inher life.
You know we just finished theOlympics.
All of those athletes.
They had a lot of talent butthey also trained.
You know, think of all thetalented athletes that are out
there that have never made it tothe Olympics or played pro
sports, to the Olympics orplayed pro sports.
(10:23):
Talent alone is not enough.
It is a learned skill.
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And then I want to get into some of the frameworks
that you teach and you talkedabout.
Learn from ballet Before we dothat.
For those who don't know what'sthe difference between sales
and prospecting as you see it,and why are both important?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
They are both absolutely important, and the
thing that's too bad is thatprospecting is often taught as a
subset of sales and it'sactually a very specific skill
set, and the way I think aboutit is it's like dating If you
(11:09):
want to go on a date withsomeone, you've got to ask them
first.
If and when they say yes, thenyou go on the date.
So prospecting is like askingfor the date, selling is like
going on the date.
So essentially, what you aredoing when you are prospecting
(11:33):
is saying to someone that youdon't really know or don't
really know very well, I'd liketo have a conversation with you
about whatever it is you do, andwhen they say yes, I'd like to
have that conversation, then youhave the conversation.
So it's really it's twodifferent skill sets.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Right, yeah, I agree with that.
I think some call them likehunters or farmers or, you know,
like different types of salesand stuff.
Let's start to talk about, kindof, some of the frameworks that
you teach and through that lens, are they different with
prospecting and sales?
Is there some overlap?
(12:13):
Mostly the same.
How do you teach thatdifferently, based on if someone
is dedicated to prospectingversus selling?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's a great question.
The framework remains the same.
The difference is within thesteps of the framework
prospecting versus selling.
So I said earlier that Ibelieve that everything I know
in life and business I learnedin ballet class.
And this is what I learned inballet class.
(12:42):
It's my three-step salesologymodel.
If you're a ballet dancer andyou have a performance, you
don't just run out on stage andstart dancing.
You have to warm up, because ifyou don't warm up, you risk
having a career-ending injury.
(13:02):
Elite athletes do the samething.
They're not running out on thefield and just playing the game.
They warm up so that they don'thave a career-ending injury.
There are things that you, as abusiness owner, entrepreneur,
there are things you need tohave in place so that you don't
hurt yourself and you don't hurtyour bottom line, that you warm
(13:23):
up, and that is things like aclear definition of your
prospect.
What makes a great lead for youin your market with your
offering?
Who do you serve?
And a lot of business owners,entrepreneurs they don't.
(13:43):
We were talking about nichingdown before You've got to do
that.
You've got to know who you'respeaking with, because that then
enables you to have therelevant conversation.
That then enables you to havethe relevant conversation, and
you also need to know how areyou going to try and engage with
(14:04):
people.
Are you calling them, are youemailing them?
Are you texting them?
Are you reaching out on socialmedia Like, what are you doing?
What is your process?
So these are all elements ofthe warm-up.
Just what are the steps?
You know who are you reachingout to, what are you going to do
, what's your process?
So these are all elements ofthe warmup.
Just what are the steps?
You know who are you reachingout to, what are you going to do
, what's your message?
You have to have that in placeso you don't hurt yourself.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Hey Chandler Bolt here.
I hope you're loving thisepisode so far.
It's time to go frominspiration to implementation.
All right, so if you've learnedsomething, we want to help you
implement what you've learnedwith your book.
So what I want you to do rightnow is go to selfpublishingcom
forward, slash schedule book apublishing consultation with one
of the experts on my team.
(14:48):
We'll talk about your goals foryour book, your dreams, your
challenges, your next steps andwe'll start putting together a
plan.
All right, so go toselfpublishingcom forward, slash
schedule book a call with theteam.
Let's see how we can help withyour book.
It's time to implement.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
The next step, step number two, is to rehearse.
If you're a dancer and you havea concert coming up again, you
don't just run out on stage andstart dancing.
You have been rehearsing formonths and when you rehearse you
learn the choreography, youlearn the steps and you practice
(15:32):
them over and over and overagain until you don't have to
think about it.
You can just execute.
It's muscle memory.
So the same is true whetherit's prospecting or sales.
You need to have that rehearsalprocess so you're prepared, so
that when you're speaking with aprospect, you know how you're
going to introduce yourself, youknow how you're going to answer
(15:55):
questions, because we know whatpeople ask and we know the
objections that prospects have.
So just, you're prepared.
And then the third step onceyou have warmed up, so like
everything's set up so you don'thurt yourself, You've rehearsed
, you have automatic musclememory.
Step three then, and only thenis it time to perform.
(16:18):
The problem is most people theyjust skip the warm up and the
rehearsal, and that doesn't work.
And here's the other thing thatis so wonderful about following
these three steps Lots ofpeople and you mentioned it,
Chandler, a lot of people saythey're scared.
(16:39):
You know they're afraid of beingrejected, or you know and to me
this is a lot like stage fright, and I have been there You're
waiting in the wings, you knowyou're waiting for your cue.
Your heart is pounding, yourpalms are sweaty and you think
you are going to throw up, butthen you hear your music and you
(17:02):
get out on stage and you dance.
Well, what enables you to dothat when you're so scared?
Well, you've warmed up.
So, like, you're prepared,You've rehearsed, You've got
automatic muscle memory.
That's what enables performance, that's what enables execution,
and what I've seen in all theyears I've been doing.
(17:22):
This is for most people.
When they have a system andthey're following the system and
they know what they're doingevery step along the path, and
they've rehearsed, so they havethat automatic muscle memory, a
lot of that fear goes away.
It enables them to be effective, and so that system, that's the
(17:45):
salesology system.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Love it.
And I think to your point thebetter the warmup, the better
the rehearsal, the moreconfident the performance,
Exactly.
So it becomes a positive loopinstead of a negative loop of
had it warm up, I didn't reallyrehearse, I went to perform and
went horribly OK.
Now I'm never doing this againor I'm going to be very
trepidatious and lack confidencethe next time I do it.
(18:10):
And sales is a transfer ofemotion in the person with the
most certainty wins Right, andso if you're not confident on
that call, well then that leadsto a lot more no's, which leads
to less.
I mean it's kind of like thisdoom loop.
Do you ever find Wendy I meanyou said a lot, you said a lot
of people skip the warm up andrehearsal stage and go straight
to perform?
I could see that being the case, especially in companies where
(18:33):
you have opportunities kind ofput on your plate.
I can almost see the oppositebeing true for startups or
people who are trying to gettheir first customers is they
spend all their time warming up,rehearsing, as almost like an
avoidance of doing the thingthat they need to do, which is
prospect and get opportunities,so that they can then have an
(18:55):
opportunity to perform.
Do you see that or no?
If so, what's?
What's your recommendation forsomeone to kind of persevere
through that and get their firstopportunities or at bats on
their calendar?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
That is a great question, because it's very much
like what we were talking aboutwith writing a book.
At some point, you know done isdone is better than perfect.
You've got to write the bookand it's true here as well and
part of the process is theexecution, because, like any
(19:29):
kind of marketing campaign oreven if you're taking a ballet
class, you're always tweakingwhat you're doing.
But you have to do it in orderto tweak it, and so one of the
things that we have our clientsdo if they're really
uncomfortable, we will have themput together a list of practice
(19:51):
leads.
I always recommend you divideyour leads into A's, b's and C's
, and the A's are the great ones.
That's like your wishlist.
You really want to work withthat company.
B's are really good.
C stands for crummy.
So put together a list of Cleads and practice on them.
(20:12):
It's going to be low stress,you're not going to blow any
great opportunities and you getto try things out.
And once you've done that, thenyou can start calling your A's
and B's.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Cool, I like that a lot.
That's really good.
So start with C leads.
What would be?
Because I want to get into moreadvanced stuff here in just a
second.
But one last question on thebeginner side of things what
would be your tips for folks?
Get into more advanced stuffhere in just a second.
But one last question on thebeginner side of things what
would be your tips for folkslet's say, hey, I've published
my book and now I'm strugglingto get my first at-bats, so my
first people on the phone toactually have a sales
conversation and see aboutworking with me.
(20:49):
What are your thoughts orrecommendations for those folks
specific to prospecting, maybeeven using their book to get
first at bats or first sales?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
conversations.
Well, you know, it's reallyinteresting because when I was
writing my book, it wasn'tfinished, it wasn't published.
I just started telling peopleI'm writing a book.
And telling people that you arewriting a book is almost as
good as having written a book.
People get very impressed andyou can use that as an entree to
(21:25):
the conversation that you wantto have.
I used to go to variousnetworking events and say, you
know, talking to people and hey,yeah, I'm writing a book, it's
on cold calling.
Oh, they'd be very impressed,they'd want to know more and I
was able to have thatconversation.
Later on, when I actually hadthe book, I was able to give it
(21:47):
out, I gave it away, gave it topeople that I wanted to talk to.
When you give people a gift,talk to.
When you give people a gift,they are much more likely to
want to engage with you.
It's reciprocity.
So that's just very easy.
(22:07):
You know, on this topic, useyour book that you are writing
or that you've finished, usethat as an entree.
And the other thing is, this isreally a skill set.
You know, when you think toyourself, I'm just, I'm just
gonna start calling people,there's a lot of I mean, that's
(22:29):
a great impulse, but there's alot of things you the warm up
that you need to have in placefirst, and if you need help
doing that, get yourself somehelp.
Our website is gosalesologycom.
We have all sorts of resourcesavailable there.
If you hate everything I'msaying today, go find somebody
(22:51):
else.
There's help out there.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, that's good, I like that.
And so I heard a few thingsthere that stuck out.
One was use your book as theentree, and so for a lot of
folks just saying, hey, here's acopy of my book for free
digital, physical, whatever elsehey, I'd also love to chat with
you further about how I canhelp you implement this in your
business.
Right, it's just a good,straightforward ask.
Also, you know when we're goingthrough, when you're publishing
(23:18):
your book and marketing yourbook.
It's a great warmup for this,especially for people who have
never done it before.
One of the big things as anauthor, you're asking for
reviews.
It's one of the most importantthings for the success of your
book.
So it's not a sale, right, butit at least gets you out of your
comfort zone to get a yes or ano of hey, can you leave a
review on my book?
And then, one thing that'sreally helped with me there was
(23:40):
a guy on the podcast the otherday, ray Higdon.
He talked about go for no andjust like getting five no's a
day, which actually, as I'vestarted trying this, it's really
hard.
It's really hard to get fiveno's a day, but just shifting
that, that framework of hey, I'mnot scared of no's, I need to
get them to hit my quota for theday.
(24:01):
It just.
It was a really interestingreframe for me to just encourage
prospecting, prospecting andencourage asking people just
like hey, here's a specific askor a specific thing that they
have the ability to say yes orno to.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yes, and I'll piggyback on what you just said
and share.
I used to have a friend namedArlene who was an actress, and
this was the game.
I dubbed it Arlene's game.
But this is the game that shewould play when going to
auditions because, as I'm sureeverybody knows, auditions are
(24:40):
really hard and you can get alot of no's.
So she would give herself onepoint every time she went to an
audition and did not get the job.
When she got to 100, she won.
She would get herself a prize,you know, and it wasn't
necessarily a big prize, youknow.
(25:01):
Maybe she went to a movie shewanted to see.
She'd do something nice forherself to reward herself for
getting 100 points, 100 no's.
And the thing is, if you get100 no's, there are going to be
some yeses in there Because, asyou said, chandler, it's hard to
get that 100 no's.
There are going to be someyeses in there Because, as you
said, chandler, it's hard to getthat many no's.
So if you do that consistently,just play Arlene's game.
(25:26):
Give yourself a point for everyno, get to 100.
Give yourself a prize.
That kind of shifts your focusand enables you to do what you
need to do.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Love that.
Play the game.
A couple of final questions andwe'll go a little bit, a little
bit more advanced.
Let's talk about oh man, Icould ask hours of questions on
sales stuff let's talk about.
I want to do one more advancedquestion and one and like an on
the spot case study, which Ithink will be fun.
(25:57):
What are, what do you feel likeare the skills it takes, or the
traits that you look for forsomeone to be great at sales?
So these are either skills ortraits that people can foster
who are trying to get good atsales, or skills to look for
when hiring great sales talent.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Two great questions.
So I'll start with the firstone, just the traits of somebody
that would make a greatsalesperson.
Because again, there's thismyth about the born salesperson
and like these people with thegift of gab, and you know I mean
that is complete BS.
It is not true.
I'm an introvert.
Introverts make greatsalespeople because they can
(26:47):
listen, so you're notnecessarily looking for somebody
that can talk nonstop.
The biggest determining factorfor me is is someone open to
learning this skill and doingsomething that is different from
whatever it is they're used todoing?
You know, we have people thatcome to our programs that don't
(27:11):
really want to do anythingthat's different from what
they're used to doing, andnothing changes when you do that
if you're not open.
But if you're open and you'rewilling to try things, then you
can learn, and so that to me, isthe biggest determining factor
(27:33):
In terms of hiring.
Here are the mistakes that Isee.
Business owners come to me andsay I want to hire a salesperson
.
I say great, what do you havein place for them?
The answer is usually nothing.
If you want to hire asalesperson, there are things
(27:55):
you need to have in place forthem.
And, going back to the warm-up.
Clear definition of what's agreat lead.
Clear definition of the process.
Clear definition of the message.
They're telling your story.
You want them to tell it well,so you need to have these things
in place for them.
You need to have it benchmarked.
(28:18):
You know, one of the things thatwe do in our programs is we
help people track what they'redoing so that they know exactly
how they're doing and what works, because numbers don't lie.
So if you know your numbers,then you can hire someone.
They should be able, at a bareminimum, to do what you do,
(28:44):
since you're doing a millionother things.
So you need to have that inplace.
And when?
Here are the two pieces ofadvice that I give my clients
that are looking to hire that dohave their process defined and
in place.
The first thing is you'relooking for someone that can
talk, so set up a voicemail.
(29:06):
Don't have them send youresumes.
Set up a voicemail and have themleave you a message, because if
they can't leave a coherentmessage, they're not going to be
a really great salesperson.
So start there.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
That's a really fun idea.
Sorry, you had one more, onemore.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And then, when you're interviewing people, I have a
client that has said to me onmultiple occasions that the best
sales job some of hissalespeople ever did was getting
him to hire them.
So what you want to do is findout if someone is coachable, and
(29:48):
so, when you are interviewingthem, have them do some kind of
role play, give them a script,or have them sell you a pencil,
or just have them do something,critique them, tell them to go
home and practice, and then havethem come back.
The people that you're lookingfor will take whatever it is
(30:12):
you've told them to do andthey'll work on it and they'll
fix it.
Will take whatever it is you'vetold them to do and they'll
work on it and they'll fix it.
You don't want to hire thepeople that give you all the
reasons that they did what theydid and how they did it at their
old job and they think there'sa better way of doing it and
they want to tell you those arenot the people you're looking
for.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
So those are my two cents, my two pieces of advice.
If you are looking to hire,three pieces, have the process
documented.
You're looking for people thatcan talk and you're looking for
people that are coachable.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
That's great.
That's great Coachable, they'rea learner.
Probably they're hungry.
All those things translatereally well.
I want to do a little mini casestudy here and get your take on
this.
Hopefully this will be helpfulfor the audience.
So we have a sales team of Gosh.
We've got probably four or fiveSDRs and maybe six or seven
(31:11):
sales reps.
So for people listening whodon't know, sdr is kind of
prospector or setter, like whenhe was talking about sales reps
or some would call it anexecutive, right.
So that's, we've been all remoteand literally just yesterday we
opened our first ever office.
So we're about 50, 60 employeesin total.
We opened our first office andwe're building on an in-person
(31:32):
sales team.
And what's super interesting tome is you know previously when
we're recruiting, when we'rehiring all that stuff.
I mean we just we can hireanywhere.
I mean they need to be on adecent time zone, but US, canada
, south America, as long asthey're good, speak great
English and can sell, we canhire from anywhere.
And now we're really shrinkingthat, obviously because we're
(31:55):
building out an in-person officeand it's just a totally new
learning curve.
So I guess my question for you,wendy, would be how would you
approach that if you were me,and how would you look for or
change your recruiting approachto get really good local sales
talent?
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I'm not sure that the approach would change
significantly.
I mean, you still need to havethat process in place.
You're still looking for peoplethat can talk and you're still
looking for people that arecoachable.
It's obviously the area whereyou are recruiting has shrunk
(32:36):
and so that that to me, you knowyou still, you still need to
have those three things in place.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Right, I guess my question is on the recruiting
front, because, because wedefinitely have all those in
place, we've got a really good,well-documented sales process
that similar, similar criteriais what you're talking about.
We don't have the voicemailthing.
I like that a lot and and justtesting early on, early on in
our interview process, we'llhave, we'll do calls, we'll have
people do a couple of calls andjust listen and give them our
(33:07):
script and say, hey, do a coupleof calls, let's, let's review,
and that's like a part of ourinterview process.
We're based in Austin, texas,and so I guess the real puzzle
for me is like, okay, you havekind of like Indeed, you have
LinkedIn, you have other placesthat you can recruit and kind of
cast a wide net.
Those still exist, obviously inAustin, but to your point it's
(33:29):
much more localized, and so mybrain's kind of spinning on hey,
where is that talent in thiscity that we go recruit?
Like anything you've seen forlocal recruiting that's worked
really well.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Well, I think we use your local network.
If you've got people that arealready on your team who do they
know that might be a greatsalesperson.
I was talking to a clientyesterday who they've got a
couple of people on their teamright now that are not really
(34:05):
working out and she's likethat's okay because I want to
hire my daughter and there arethree or four people from my
previous job that I also want tohire, so she's all prepared.
If these people that are notworking out, if they leave,
she's got a plan B and she's gotpeople that she's already
(34:25):
vetted because she knows them.
You know, and so I think that,especially when you're
recruiting locally, your peopleknow people and they know what
the criteria are because they'realready on the team.
They know what they had to gothrough, they know what you're
(34:46):
looking for.
So that is the resource that Iwould leverage is the people you
already know.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Cool, Love it.
Lots of learn.
It's a lot of fun, Wendy, acouple of final questions for
you.
One would be knowing what youknow now.
What would be your partingpiece of advice specific to
learning and getting good at theskill set of sales for all of
our authors out there?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Well, I'll go back to what I said earlier.
Basically, what we're talkingabout is the communication skill
.
It can be learned, and actuallywe have a gift for our audience
that will help, because we havebeen talking today about sales
mindset, and so the gift that Ihave for everyone today is the
(35:39):
Master your Sales Mindset videoseries, and it's a series of
short videos to help you justkind of reframe the way you're
thinking about this, becausethat's really where it all
starts is in your head, and onceyou're open to learning, then
(36:01):
you can learn.
So, and I believe you have thelink, chandler, and you'll be
able to put that out there withthis podcast.
So, you know, I invite peopleto do that and also to visit us
gosalesologycom, connect with meon LinkedIn and listen to my
(36:26):
podcast.
Wherever you get your podcasts,it's Salesology Conversations
with Sales Leaders, becausethese are all resources that you
can use to educate yourself tolearn this skill set, which is a
perfectly learnable skill set.
I did it, and if I did it, youcan do it.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Cool.
I love that.
I'm looking you up on LinkedInright now, wendy.
Guys, I hope you've enjoyedthis.
Check out we've got the link inthe show notes to this free
gift that Wendy just mentioned.
Check out.
We've got the link in the shownotes to this free gift that
Wendy just mentioned, the salesmindset training.
So go to the show notes.
You'll find the link there.
It's the master your salesmindset free training, wendy.
Thank you so much.
(37:06):
This was awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Thank you, Chandler.
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