October 30, 2024 • 35 mins
What if you could transform a simple book into a $2 million business empire? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Brad Hart, the innovative mind behind Build A Mastermind and author of "The 8-Minute Mastermind." Brad's passion for writing and facilitating masterminds has not only shaped his career but also cultivated a thriving global community. Here, he shares his journey of participating in over 50 masterminds, the unique value of the "hot seat" experience, and how a catchy book title can spark worldwide interest.
Brad unveils the mastermind behind his book funnel strategy, which cleverly captures potential readers through strategic free value offerings. By thinking in numbers and focusing on relationship-building, Brad demonstrates how providing valuable resources from the start can lead to meaningful customer engagements. These insights are drawn from his finance background, emphasizing the long-term profitability of nurturing connections with readers. Through thoughtful follow-ups and refined offerings based on feedback, Brad showcases how a book can evolve to better serve its audience over time.
Dive into the art of pricing and converting leads with Brad's expert advice on optimizing sales funnels. Discover the power of free plus shipping offers, order form bumps, and one-time offers that keep customers engaged and coming back for more. Brad explains the psychology behind pricing and the importance of testing different points to find what works best for your audience. With a keen focus on maintaining a sustainable balance between advertising costs and sales outcomes, this episode wraps up by highlighting the innovative use of book funnels for self-liquidating customer acquisition, urging authors to see their publications as powerful lead generators.
Watch the free training: https://selfpublishing.com/freetraining
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Here are some links that might come in handy:
- Apply for a free book consultation
- Register for our free on-demand training
Must-watch episodes:
- SPS 044: Using A Free + Shipping Book Funnel with Anik Singal
- SPS 115: Using Atomic Habits To Write & Publish A Book with James Clear
- SPS 127: Traditional vs. Self Publishing: Which You Should Choose with Ruth Soukup
- SPS 095: The Five Love Languages: Selling 15 Million Copies with Gary Chapman
- SPS 056: How I Sold 46M Copies of My Self Published Book with Robert Kiyosaki
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, chandler Bolt.
Here and joining me today isBrad Hart.
Brad's been a friend for a longtime, way back since my San
Diego days.
He is a longtime entrepreneur.
He's the founder of a companycalled Build A Mastermind that's
buildamastermindcom.
He's also the author of thebook the 8-Minute Mastermind,
which, brad I know we got a copyin vicinity for the people
(00:28):
watching on video there.
It is Nice, and so he's theauthor of this book.
He helps people createprofitable masterminds, and so
that's the subject of the book.
This is subject to the businesshe's done.
A bunch of big stuff was inwealth management back in the
day, and his book has sold over12,000 copies, which is fun
(00:50):
self-published success story.
So we'll get into that.
How he did it, all that sort ofthing.
But fun stat as well over $2million in business generated
from the book, and so we're justgoing to nerd out on
successfully publishing booksthat grow your business.
In this episode I got a lot ofquestions, brad, welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Thank you so much, Chandler.
It's so great to see you again.
Brother, I don't think we'veactually seen each other in
person since before the pandemic.
Remember that thing.
It feels like a while.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
That is crazy.
That's crazy.
Well, let's start with this.
Why did you decide to createthe Eight-Minute Mastermind book
?
What sparked that and how didyou see it fitting in with your
business?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, so great question.
I've always loved to write andwriting is just cathartic for me
.
I wrote this morning.
I try to bang out like two,3000 words, whether I publish it
or not, whether it becomes partof something or not.
Like, I just love to write.
So for me it's like the perfectmedium to get out to people and
I love to converse with peopleon a deeper level than just
little soundbites.
And nothing wrong with theTikTok and YouTube culture and
(01:49):
all that.
It's just it's not the way Iprefer to express myself.
I like to take my time and thinkthrough things and write them
out, and that's.
I tend to attract more of thesame.
I've always loved to read and Ilove that type of thing.
So there's books all over myhouse.
I'm just you can see in mybackground here so I've always
been a geek on that side.
So when it came to writing abook, it always been a dream of
mine and it was one of thosethings that was like a Google
(02:11):
doc sitting around for yearsthat I just never published and
I finally just decided likelisten, I'm not coming out of my
office, I'm going to wear mybathrobe and slippers until this
thing is done, and I just gotinto a mode where I would crank
out two 3,000 words a day and Igot over the hurdle by just
hiring this really great editor.
Shout out to Rodney.
He's a freelancer out inFlorida who worked with us on
our first book, which wasactually a compilation.
(02:33):
It was just like a bunch ofpeople in Mastermind doing a
book together and it was like mystory plus their story is equal
to book.
I was like this is really cool,it was really easy.
It it was really easy, it wasreally fun.
It took all the nitty gritty,detail work and design work and
like what goes where and how doyou put this together and
actually make it a book off myplate.
So I could just do the thing Ilove and it was joyful which is
writing.
And concurrently I've been amastermind geek forever, a
(02:55):
personal development geek, butmastermind specifically.
I've joined 50 plus masterminds.
I've started two dozen of myown.
I started one of the largestones in San Diego back when
Chandler and I lived there.
We had 550 people in this thing, which is awesome, grew it word
of mouth over two years andI've had them from free and
invite only up to a hundredthousand a year I've helped
(03:15):
dozens of people hit the sevenfigure mark now with their
masterminds.
It's really cool If you hit theeight figure mark and I felt
thousands and thousands ofpeople launch them through
various things.
And it all started with thisbook, right, it started with
this book called the 8-MinuteMastermind.
So why did I write that?
Why did I call it that?
Well, the 7-Minute Mastermindwas taken.
No, I'm just kidding.
I really wanted a great title.
I really look up to guys likeTim Ferriss, the 4-Hour Workweek
, and I knew there needed to bea number in there.
(03:37):
It needed to.
And the eight-minute mastermindthing started from the hot seat
right, the core unit of value ina mastermind, in my opinion,
that sets it apart from all thecoaching and all the group stuff
and everything that is not amastermind is the hot seat.
It's an opportunity, if youdon't know what it is, to be
facilitated in front of yourpeers and ask questions and
(04:00):
supported and find out at thedeepest base level what is
reality currently for me, rightnow, so that you can make a new
decision, create a new plan, youknow, take a new action and get
a new result right, cause youcan't read the label from inside
the bottle.
You need clarity to move forward, and, as I got better and
better at these hot seats, Iwould like get them down to like
(04:20):
10 minutes, 12 minutes, eightminutes felt like the sweet spot
where we could at least get ahundred percent clear on what
was actually going on, lovingly,as a group, so that we could
then maybe support people andgive them suggestions and
connections and whatever elsethey needed to move forward with
their mission.
And that became the core thesisof the book.
It's what I teach, it's what Ihelp people facilitate and learn
how to do, and it really becamelike this movement.
(04:42):
It's been a really incrediblething.
People all over the world haveread this book that I've never
met before, and they're outbuilding masterminds now.
So it's a really wonderfulthing that I get to be a part of
.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
That's cool and I think there's a great lessons
there of when you've donesomething over and over again.
In your case you're coachingpeople through the process,
you're helping them startmasterminds.
There's just a lot of clarityin the content that needs to be
covered and you've kind ofyou've explained the concept a
bunch of times and then hadpeople ask questions, had people
(05:11):
trial and error, so it just itclarifies your writing before
you even start writing.
I guess when you initiallypublished the book, was it?
I mean, you knew, hey, I'mgoing to build a book, funnel
all that stuff around this.
This is going to be a directlead into the business.
I'm assuming that was theintention from the start, or did
that just kind of happen afterthe fact?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, it was weird.
I kind of backed into it.
So you remember, whenmastermindcom came out with the
big launch and they did, youknow, tony and Dean and all that
.
So I had launched my see Deanat the gym with his wife now
wife Lisa they were dating atthe time and we're catching up.
He's like, hey, I'm doing thisthing with Tony, really cool.
And then nothing happened for awhile.
And then I reached out to himlike, hey, I really want to be
(05:50):
involved with this.
It sounds cool, cause I hadheard from a client of mine, aj
Mirzad, shout out to him he's inThailand now I had heard from
what you guys got planned.
But I got to be a part of this.
I'm the mastermind guy.
This is like right up my alley.
So I'm bugging Dean, I'mbugging Dean, he finally
responds and I get involved.
And, long story short, I endedup partnering with them.
I ended up becoming a speakerfor them.
(06:12):
I was an affiliate first.
I came in 24th, the first year,eighth, the second year, out of
5,000 affiliates of the worldshutting down.
So it didn't go as well asplanned.
So I had all these dreams oflike, hey, I'm going to be a
speaker for Tony, I'm going totravel the world.
I was getting trained to dothat and we were like doing all
(06:32):
this and we're working with it,we're doing the workshops at the
big offices here in Scottsdale.
It was like all this stuff ishappening.
I went to work with my heroes.
World shut down and they wentall virtual and he built this
big, beautiful sound studio andhe's reaching 800,000 people and
1 million people and all thesedifferent things.
But all the speaking and analogtype stuff just went out the
(06:53):
window.
So I was left with like, okay,I know I can do it.
I know what the best in theworld are teaching.
I know what I've learned fromteaching a ton of people.
My program works.
I've got great case studies.
I've had a lot of people buildmasterminds and add six figures,
sometimes seven figures, totheir business.
It's been a reallytransformative thing.
What can I do to now separatemyself in the marketplace?
And when I got really clear, Iwas like I needed to write the
book.
So I launched this book in themiddle of the pandemic and what
(07:16):
was working for me in thatmoment was I knew what a free
plus shipping offer was.
I was Brian Delaney who builtJeremy Miner's funnel and built
it to seven figures with hisNEPQ, black belt questions and
sales stuff.
So I kind of had a framework.
I knew it worked.
I had the book, I knew exactlywhat I was going to sell and I
launched it and, believe it ornot, like I'm not a great
Facebook ads guy I can do it,but it's like not my core
(07:38):
competency I was getting $3 forevery dollar I was spending
front end.
So think about this for a minuteIf you find a machine where you
put a dollar in and $3 comes in, before you spend any more
money, before you have a salescall, before you even have an
enrollment conversation, beforeyou sell a high ticket profit
product, you're going to look inyour couch cushions for change
and spend as much money as youpossibly can until that's no
longer the case, right, becausethat window of opportunity is
(08:00):
closing.
So I think it was like aconvolution of all these
different things.
People are scared spendingmoney.
It's the middle of pandemic.
They're looking for a way to goonline and do group stuff.
I did all that and it was justcrushing and eventually it
became break even.
Eventually it cost me money,but on the back of that I was
able to build a crazy list andsell all these books and I was
just spending money as fast as Icould to make it happen and to
(08:20):
reach more people and then 45 to90 days later you'd be getting
the people starting to enroll inyour program and that's how we
did the backend, plus the eventsthat I did with Jay.
So that's that's like the shortstory.
I'm sure we could dive into thedetails about more how that
happened.
That was kind of the confluenceof events that brought us to do
it, and had the world not shutdown, I wouldn't have been a
position where, like, oh, myplan just went out the window,
(08:41):
what am I going to do?
And went and did something Inever did before.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Cool, wow, great story, love it.
Talk to me about.
Well, I guess I want to asksome more about how how you sold
a lot of these books.
It sounds like a lot throughthat, that funnel.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It was mostly, as there's some you know, affiliate
stuff.
We're on John Lee Dumas'spodcast, a bunch of big podcasts
that moved the needles.
We did a lot of promotions,partner promotions.
We eventually did events, youknow, off the back of that.
But I think the main thing thatsold the most was definitely
going on podcasts talking aboutit having a really clear link
8minutemastermindcom and I cankind of break down the funnel
(09:18):
for people because it's actuallygenerated millions of dollars.
So it'd be a helpful place tostart.
But if you just go there, thefirst thing you get is not the
book.
You don't get the pitch.
There's nothing to buy, right,it's just here's free value.
Here's three things I give them101 questions to ask as a
mastermind facilitator, right,so it's just easy value.
You can go and do a hot seatright now.
I give them 50 example hotseats and I give them a cheat
sheet so they can go and startdoing mastermind stuff right now
(09:39):
without the book, and then onthe next page you can get the
book.
So what am I doing?
Advance, I'm asking for anemail just to secure, right, so
I can follow up if they don'tgrab the book right away.
And I'm giving them a nobrainer offer.
I think it's $6.
I'll ship it anywhere in theworld which I'm losing money on,
just because I want to get itin their hands and they'll
actually read it.
And then we follow up with themiddle of the funnel and so on
and so forth.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
So if you're running ads to it, getting a three to
one.
Yeah, what were the strongestpieces?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
So it was the two pieces I mentioned, and then
there would be an upsell so youcould one click upsell to the
challenge which we had alreadypublished prior to that.
So that was like a quick, easyhit there.
I think there was anotherupsell, which was the offer
creation domination, cause yougot to think to yourself like
what are the things people aregoing to most want and struggle
with discreetly and alsotogether?
Right, cause you can't just doa kitchen sink offer as a small
(10:35):
thing.
You need to like, reallyspecifically pick a small ticket
item that you can actuallysolve their problem and get them
value.
Cause it's one thing forsomebody to buy, it's one thing
for somebody to grab the book orhave a chip to them.
It's a whole other thing to getthem consume and apply.
Right, buy is the first step,it's the hardest thing, uh.
But then the.
The next hardest thing, andwhere the money is really made
and where the relationshipsreally built and the trust is
(10:56):
really built, is did theyconsume my content?
Right, If I can't get them toconsume the content, I'm dead in
the water.
So that's my next thing.
And, uh, we also had a downsellthat I forget what it was.
Right now off the top of myhead, but this funnel has been
through many iterations, so backthen it was something different
than what it is today.
And with this new book I'm goingto revamp the whole thing again
and create cool AI tools thatare going to help people spit
(11:18):
out an offer in 30 seconds.
They could put any half-assedprompt they want in there and
they'll have an offer in 30seconds.
I've got a really cool marketresearch training, a really cool
sales training.
So like I'm just giving awayall my best stuff up front with
the hope that they actuallyconsume some of it Cause they do
.
They're going to get resultsand it's going to be gold and
they're going to be like oh myGod, and they're going to want
to have a conversation.
And that's really where the, the, the, the rubber meets the road
(11:47):
.
It's like if I can go in thehole for a month, two months,
three months, six months, andyou can't, that means I get your
clients right.
It's like how much can youspend on the front end to
acquire great leads, nurturethem and then ultimately be
profitable on the backend?
So I don't really care aboutthe book.
The book is a lead magnet, it'sa business card.
I try to.
You know key people like peopleare all like, oh, get on Amazon
bestseller.
Like I don't care about any ofthat because I want the
(12:10):
relationship Right.
So I'll spend what it takes toget it and as long as it makes
sense, I'm going to keep doingit.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Cool, it makes sense coming from your, I guess,
finance background.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, I think in numbers, right, I can't help it.
Yeah, exactly, most people arenot going to start there.
I think you start with writethe best MFN book you can
possibly write and then it'snever done.
Here's a really cool tidbit,which maybe you guys already are
on track.
But that book I've rewrittenfour times because I would get
feedback from people and I wouldlearn new things.
I would go back to it and belike, oh, there really needs to
(12:43):
be a little section about this,or I could add a bonus here, or
whatever.
Right.
So every year I'd rewrite thebook and call it expanded,
updated, revised, whatever.
And since I was ordering printcopies from KDP and shipping
them to a thing, I didn't haveto order more than maybe 500 at
a time or a thousand at a timeto just keep ahead of the next
couple of months or whatever itwas.
So I would just do that and Iwould rewrite it every every
(13:05):
year with my editor and be like,oh, let's, let's tweak and
change and update it.
So every single year it wasgetting better and tighter and
more, uh, capable of, like youknow, bringing people through.
And then I learned about, likenarrative storytelling and the
hero's journey and this arc thatwe can take people on.
So it's like people are gettingto know me and my struggles and
what I've gone through and andconnect with that on that level
(13:26):
as well, in addition to thereally great content.
So it's kind of a full package.
But if you're not thinking ofyour book as, if you think of
your book as like I finished,it's done and now it's just out
in the world, I think you'remissing a huge opportunity to
continue to make it better.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, I agree with that.
So let's kind of break downthis funnel a little bit.
So you're running ads, you'realso going on podcast, doing
affiliate promotions, all kindof like traffic sources leading
to this funnel.
Then on the funnel you said hey, you've got your landing page
and it's before you even get thebook.
Here's some free resources,here's a mastermind cheat sheet.
(13:59):
So purpose of that we'recapturing leads.
Now we've got that's loweringour cost per lead.
Obviously you could do atwo-step on the book if you
wanted to, but capture leadsThen it sounds like from there
they're going to the thank youpage, which is a delivery of
delivery of the lead magnet andI would assume also a two-step
(14:20):
for the book and that's a freeplus shipping right there.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's actually straight to the free plus
shipping offer, with resourcesbeing sent.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Deliver via email.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Correct.
And then there's like a bannerup top that says hey, it's going
to take five or 10 minutes toget your email.
In the meantime, here go orderyour book next.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Perfect, okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
So you got to keep them in the funnel right, Yep.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Got it, and so then, when they do that, is there any
sort of order form?
Bump.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yep, so there's an order form bump.
I think again, this is goingback a few years.
Originally we had we've testedlike five or six of them.
Originally we had somethinglike oh, it was the audio book
that really crushed, the audiobook read by me and I think we
charged.
I thought my funnel guy wascrazy.
I didn't build this by myself.
I had a great team Hawk Mercado.
You know a few Hawk and Kate.
They're great, but they theyrecommended.
I sell the audio book for $47.
And I'm like $47 for an audiobook.
That's nuts, but people boughtit.
People bought it a lot Like theywere more happy because now
(15:14):
they had the book and they couldread through and they could
listen or they could go back andforth and, for whatever reason,
that just worked way better.
So it was just strictly theaudio book exactly what it was,
but the the the point of thestory was I learned that you
need to meet people wherethey're at from a consumption
(15:35):
perspective, cause some peoplewant to read, some people want
to listen, some people want towatch a video, some people, you
know, they like podcasts,whatever it is like it all works
.
And once you have the book, it'sa lot easier to create the
other assets right, cause nowyou already have all that.
It's like you did the hardthing once of like you know
scripting it all out andformulating it proper.
Now it's much easier to likehey, I can do a mini course Like
what harm was he did?
(15:55):
I mean, he crushed it with thatlaunch where he he's like
here's my book and you buy thebook and you'll get the course
for free.
And even if you don't buy thebook, here's the course for free
and you know he does allYouTube videos and everything.
He has the money to do it.
One asset and it's starting towork.
I 100% you need to leverage itto other visual, kinesthetic
audio.
(16:15):
You need to hit all thedifferent modalities there.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, I agree with that.
And for folks watching,listening at home, if you go
chapter 23 in my book publishedand then go to page 186, we've
got kind of a whole breakdown ofall the funnels and stuff free,
plus shipping funnels, all that.
We've got kind of a wholebreakdown of all the funnels and
stuff free, plus shippingfunnels, all that.
You can walk through kind ofmore of this stuff order form,
bumps, upsell pages, otos, allthat stuff.
So we'll jump back into thefunnel.
(16:41):
So we've got the one-time offerthrough the audio book plus
some bonus resources.
We've seen that work really,really well as well.
Now I'm assuming we're going tothe one-time offer.
And that's where you said 21day challenge 21 day challenge
what's the price point?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
so the uh, it was normally 97 offer.
We did it for 77 if they boughtit within the funnel right,
okay and then the.
The goal with that again, it's21 days broken out of like.
Here are the steps to build amastermind.
It's literally like me I did.
I filmed it all in one day, sodon't think it's a huge thing.
Like I wrote, wrote it in oneday, I filmed it in another day
and I delivered it and we soldthousands of copies of it.
(17:17):
And the goal is not, again, tomake money, it's just subsidize
the cost of running ads.
So the goal of that is give themone action item every day, one
to two slides to look at alittle bit of content, a little
bit of teaching tool.
Maybe it's 10 to 15 minutesthat day and then go do this
thing.
And oh, by the way, if you wantto accelerate your progress, if
you want to talk to us, if youhave questions, book a call book
(17:37):
, a call book, a call.
Every middle of the funnelpiece of content is booking a
call.
It's establishing social proof,it's giving them value.
It's book a call.
It's like everything that weare doing is call related and we
were generating calls from thebook.
We're generating calls in thepodcast.
We're generating calls in thechallenge.
We're generating calls from anymiddle of the funnel content.
It's only job is to build arelationship, add value and book
(18:00):
a call Cause.
Ultimately there's people aregoing to DIY and they're never
going to be your people andthey're never going to invest
beyond what they already did.
And then there's people are likehey, I just want to work with
Brad, I want to go faster, Iwant to cut through all this
stuff.
I realized that I need to justfocus and invest time, energy,
attention, resources because, AI don't know what I don't know
and I want to fill in the gapsin my knowledge, and, B I prefer
(18:21):
not to waste time, energy,attention and money.
I prefer to invest thoseresources into people and
systems and proven mentorshipand a path that's tried and just
.
I need somebody to hold my handand walk me to the promised
land, and that's what we do.
It's simple.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Cool, Love that.
So 97, uh discounted to 77, ifthey buy it on the spot and I
think you said there was onemore, uh, one-time offer, Number
two.
That was like the offercreation or something.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Offer creation, domination, baby.
So the number one outcome ofthat and we've even made this
better Now I can literally sendyou a link where it's like put
your idea for a.
We call them a hypotheticaloffer document, or HOD.
So put your hypothetical offeridea in here, like I want to
make a mastermind forself-published offers, bam, and
it'll just go through my wholerubric.
It's been trained on all mycontent and knows exactly how to
(19:13):
do it.
It'll spit out like a minute.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It's awesome cool, and what's the price point on?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
that.
That one was, I think, 197.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
We've tested 197 and and the.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
The lesson I kept having to learn over and over
again that I, you know, I, you,everybody has a little imposter
syndrome is like, are peoplegoing to borrow those?
And actually, not only did theybuy it more when you raise the
prices, they bought it moreoften and they were more
satisfied.
It was the weirdest thing.
The more you charge, forwhatever reason, up to a point
like after 497.
So I'll make a little detourhere.
(19:44):
So if you're going to sell in afunnel as a one-click thing,
anything 497 below can work.
If you're good enough to sellit and it's a, it's a product
people actually want, they willbuy it.
Above four 97.
You really get into webinar VSLterritory up to maybe like the
2,500 range.
After 2,500, unless you're likeRyan Levesque or somebody who's
really, really good Uh, youknow what's his name.
Um, the guy with Sedona, uh,brian, uh, shit, I forget his
(20:06):
name.
Anyway, uh, unless you'rereally good above 3000 or so,
you're gonna have a lot oftrouble selling without a phone
call and and after.
That's like phone call eventterritory, like that's where
you're going to get into.
You know three-day events andone-on-one sales calls.
So like just knowing what youcan sell 500 and less in a
funnel with the one click upsellor whatever.
Uh is helpful, right Cause it'llgive you a parameter but I want
(20:27):
you to test every price pointwithin that zero to dollar to
497, like test everything,because you just don't know you
might raise the price and youget better conversions.
It's wild, I don't understandit.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Or you might double the price and get 25% less
people take it which is stillpositive, right yeah.
And so after that are theygoing to the thank you page
after OTO number two.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
You don't get to the thank you page until you've seen
everything.
Yeah, you get two upsells, adownsell and then you go to the
thank you page.
Unless you just click no, no,no, then you go right to the
thank you page.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I see, got it.
So then there was a downsellafter that, and then there was a
thank you page no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
But even if they don't buy something, as long as
they're in the funnel, as longas they're consuming something,
as long as they're getting somevalue.
I get a second bite at theApple right.
What you don't want is they sawan ad, they clicked around,
they didn't do anything, or theybought something and they just
never looked at it.
That's the worst.
And then you get refunds andyou get upset, people charging
back and stuff like that.
That's not what I want.
I want people to have a goodexperience.
(21:42):
They want to come away with agood feeling.
They want to get some sort ofvalue, even if it's just a quick
skim.
And what was your average ordervalue?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I know this probably fluctuates over time and
depending on yeah, it was likeStuff like that.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I think we got as high as like 140 bucks at one
point.
It was pretty high, so 140 atthe highest per book purchaser
and then probably in like 70 to80, was more sustainable
long-term yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Okay, 70 to 80.
Yep, that makes sense.
And then, what was your costper?
Because I'm assuming you'relooking at two stats.
Your most important stat islike your cost per book claim or
your cost per book purchase.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
That's what I was really tracking, that was the
one thing that kind of ruled itall.
So in the beginning, like I wassaying, I was getting three to
one, so it was awesome.
That didn't sustain.
That was like for the firstmonth or two.
It started to trickle down.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
eventually just break even After a while I was
comfortable selling $50 books,meaning I would pay somebody $50
to buy my $6 free plus shippingoffer.
Hypothetically right and justfor people listening or watching
.
I mean you're not literallypaying 50 bucks.
Well, you're literally paying50 bucks.
You're not paying them 50 bucksyou might have facebook or
google or youtube or whateverright.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I'm paying that much money in advertising so that
somebody will buy the book forsix dollars and then I lose
money on shipping.
I lose money on on all right Idon't know what my actual cost
ends up being, but I'm stilllike that model can still work
within up to that number.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
If it got to 80 or 100, it would stop working as
well do you remember what youraverage like CBA or cost per
acquisition on the book purchasewas?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, it was probably .
I started getting a little bitmore.
I would start spending lesswhen I was at 50 and I would go
back to the drawing board.
I try to keep it under 50.
So like I never let it get above50, because that's where the
model started to break down,cause you know a certain number
of people have to buy booksbefore you get a certain number
of sales calls, before you getan actual buyer.
And you got to recognize we'rein the most inflationary period
(23:39):
in modern history.
As far as the United States isconcerned, they've printed four
times the amount of money thatexisted 20 years ago.
So everything eventually needsto catch up to that.
So, even though the market isquadrupled, even though real
estate is quadrupled and pricingis quadrupled, it's like you
got to realign your perceptionof what things cost so that
you're not going on old numbers.
So even my numbers from a fewyears ago are not relevant
(24:01):
anymore.
I'm willing to spend more, butI also have to raise my prices.
I have to charge more so thateverything makes sense.
Right, it's just the numbersgame.
You have to be ahead of that.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
You have to really think about it, that makes sense
.
And so then it sounds likeyou're better than break-even on
the front end, self-liquidatingthrough that funnel, and then,
I'm assuming, the back end.
Like you said, all roads leadto book a call, and then the
book a call is selling some sortof high ticket offer.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Exactly it started.
The beta was at 5K.
We worked it up to like eight.
Up until recently we were at9,800.
That's where it was for thelongest time and now we just
kicked it up.
We expanded the offer.
It's more like a scale yourcoaching business type offer.
(24:48):
So masterminds are a componentof it, but there's, you know, ai
tools.
Now there's a full suite of ofwe have.
We call it Panda Dash.
It's like a go high level labelwhich is like your entire
business in a box.
That alone saves us 30 grand ayear.
It's like we've added a bunchof really cool stuff bells and
whistles, bonuses, one dayworkshops, three day events, all
that great stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
So that is a full bundle for 15K 15, five zero, or
one five, one five, yeah Cool,love it Okay, love it Okay,
awesome.
And so that's there it is,folks.
That is the $2 million bookfunnel, and so I guess I'm
curious what I would assuming.
I would assume, let's say, hey,2 million from that funnel.
(25:23):
I would assume probably two to500K of that.
Is that maybe even less thanthat is the self-liquidating,
and then the rest is the backend.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, Great question.
So I don't have those numbersbroken down exactly.
I'm just strictly speakingabout the 2 million in in sales
on the backend.
So I don't even I don't eventalk about that.
So, like I would say,one-to-one sales calls, we sold
about eight 900 K and then therest came from events.
Cause that's where it reallytook off.
So a quick detour.
(25:52):
I did four events with mymentor and former business
partner, jay Fizette.
We just went on a tear, did abunch of events.
It was great.
We sold about a million won offof that.
That was a larger ticket, butit was both of our stuff
together, so they were payingmore but they were getting more.
That contributed quite a bit tothe revenue.
So now my model going forward islike book funnel on the front
(26:13):
end with other stuff too.
I'll continue to do other stuff, but that's like the main
driver.
That's why I wrote the new bookand that's why it's coming out
in January.
So yeah, if you get on thislist now 8minutemastermindcom,
you'll be notified when thatlaunches.
That's out to the editor.
I have another meeting next week.
I'm really excited about this.
This is the best book I'll everwrite on the topic and the last
one I'll ever write on thetopic is.
I'm only working with 750 moreclients and then I am done.
(26:34):
Donezo, want to move on toother things?
You got to have a period at theend of the sentence.
I'm a punctuation nerd, but thelong story short is now I know
what works right, so we got theone-on-one thing, we've got the
groups, we've got the.
I'm just putting it alltogether in the best possible
format.
After having done this foralmost seven years in this
(26:55):
particular iteration and morethan 20 years in business, now I
know what works.
I'm just going to go do it andI'm going to make it the best I
possibly can, and my goal is tomake 5 million within three
years on the book by the bookitself.
So I think, given our successwith the first one and knowing
what we know now, absolutelypossible to do that.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Cool, I like it and so interesting.
I think what I love about thismodel, and for people listening,
watching, who want to replicatethis, is that you're
self-liquidating, or at leastclose to it.
By the time they even book acall with your team, and so it's
essentially free customeracquisition because you're
breaking even on the book.
(27:39):
And then, not to mention,you're getting a ton of leads
who don't even claim the bookright.
So I mean it's-.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
We do affiliate and other offers.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
A hundred percent, but then even just those people
who drop off after the firstfree piece, I mean that's like
not even factored into theequation, but essentially
thousands of free leads on thatas well, maybe even more than
that, and so I think it's justreally interesting model for
people thinking about it.
And this is what I love aboutbook funnels is you're adding so
(28:08):
much value at the start, and Imean I'd be curious what your
experience is, brad.
I know for my experience.
My sales team loves when peopleget on the phone with them
after they've read the book orbought the book.
They're like these are the bestprospects.
Yeah, so you say about this waygang.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
You're in business to help people, the more ways you
can help them and the deeper youcan help them before you even
talk to them.
Like that's the dream.
There's no convincing, it'sjust oh, how does this look?
They have a few questions andthey want to buy.
That's it.
And you know we're throwing alot of numbers around because
numbers are easier to track.
But think about the impact here.
There's thousands of people outthere now through
self-publishing, school, throughbuild, a mastermind
(28:57):
no-transcript missed in sixyears.
It's like you know.
It's a blessing, it's a gift,and I spend the rest of my time
with my family and my wifetraveling, uh, working on the
business instead of in thebusiness.
It's a great thing and I don'teven need to do it.
It's just, it's what I love todo.
It's what I love to do and I'mas good as I'll ever be, I'm as
(29:17):
young as I've ever been and Ijust want to go out on a bang.
I really want to pass this alongand I jumped at this
opportunity to speak to youbecause I feel like so many
authors get into this for notthe right reasons or they
haven't thought it all the waythrough.
They just don't understand,they don't know what they don't
know.
They're like thinking, oh, Iwant to write a book so I get
more speaking gigs Okay, why, soI can get more clients?
Well, why even need?
You, don't need thatnecessarily.
(29:38):
Or I want to write a book soI'm an expert.
Or I want to write a book so Ican become JK Rowling and make a
billion dollars and havefricking queen Victoria.
You know, like, whatever reasonyou're doing it, uh, understand
that the book is not thebusiness model.
The business model is thebusiness model.
The book is the lead in and itworks so.
(29:59):
So if you start treating itthat way and just you start,
like, shifting your perspectiveof what's possible.
You know, if you ask theaverage author, like, would you
spend $50 to get somebody to buyyour book, even if they don't
read it, they would say, no,take a hike, that's crazy, right
.
But when you shift the model,you start realizing, oh, that's
just the beginning.
Now the whole thing opens upfor you.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Love.
That book is just the beginning.
I think that's a good, goodplace to end, brad, I'd say a
couple of final questions.
One what would be your partingpiece of advice for people
thinking about going on thisbook and book funnel journey,
knowing what you've known, whatyou know, knowing what you know
now?
And then the last questionwould be well, I'll ask the last
(30:41):
question.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
All right.
So advice you know everybody'sgot advice right, and I can only
speak from my experience.
It's not where you start up,it's where you end up If you can
just keep getting a little bitbetter every day, like 1% better
every day.
After a year it's not addition,it's not 365% better, it's
3,778% better right, if you gotthat kind of return in the stock
(31:02):
market, you'd be prettythrilled.
So I'm just saying commit tobeing 1% better every day, and I
do that by just writing a lot.
I try to write every day.
It's something that calms me,it's something that soothes me,
it's something that inspires me,it's something that allows me I
don't even publish most of it,but I just love it.
And one day, you know, I willhave written a million plus
words or some crazy thing, andmaybe I have already, I don't
know.
But like, the point is to do ita lot and you'll get really
(31:25):
good at it.
So, whatever you're committedto being better at, just do it a
little bit better every day andyou'll, you'll get there.
Yeah, that's my advice.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Cool and Brad, where can people go to find out more
about you, to check out theeight minute mastermind book, et
cetera?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, so you can go to build a mastermindcom and
check out our program.
A little more about me.
You could see me and my wifeand you know our little family
and you know understand what itis.
There's a bunch of greatcontent on there.
You can watch a webinar.
You can do all that good stuff.
So if you're interested in whatwe do and a mastermind would be
a great fit to add on yourbusiness, or you have a
mastermind but it's notoptimized the way you want it to
be, we're here to help.
(32:00):
This is what we do.
We do it all day.
I believe we're the best in theworld at it.
And then, additionally, likeRussell says, you know, go into
funnels, pull out your wallet,see how it's done, and you're
going to save a lot of heartacheand time and energy.
You can go to8minutemastermindcom, grab your
book and you'll also be on thelist for when I launch Million
(32:20):
Dollar Masterminds early nextyear Coming soon, we might be
cooking up something togetherhere on this.
Let's do it, baby, I love it.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Well, guys, thanks for being here.
Brad, thank you so much forbeing here.
If you're interested in gettingstarted on your book, book a
call with our team.
Go to selfpublishingcom.
Forward slash talk.
We'd love to chat with you.
Help you with your book, brad,you're the man Much love.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Chandler.
Thank you everybody.
Have a beautiful day.
Hey, chandler Bolt.
Here and joining me today isBrad Hart.
Brad's been a friend for a longtime, way back since my San
Diego days.
He is a longtime entrepreneur.
He's the founder of a companycalled Build A Mastermind that's
buildamastermindcom.
He's also the author of thebook the 8-Minute Mastermind,
which, brad I know we got a copyin vicinity for the people
(00:28):
watching on video there.
It is Nice, and so he's theauthor of this book.
He helps people createprofitable masterminds, and so
that's the subject of the book.
This is subject to the businesshe's done.
A bunch of big stuff was inwealth management back in the
day, and his book has sold over12,000 copies, which is fun
(00:50):
self-published success story.
So we'll get into that.
How he did it, all that sort ofthing.
But fun stat as well over $2million in business generated
from the book, and so we're justgoing to nerd out on
successfully publishing booksthat grow your business.
In this episode I got a lot ofquestions, brad, welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Thank you so much, Chandler.
It's so great to see you again.
Brother, I don't think we'veactually seen each other in
person since before the pandemic.
Remember that thing.
It feels like a while.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
That is crazy.
That's crazy.
Well, let's start with this.
Why did you decide to createthe Eight-Minute Mastermind book
?
What sparked that and how didyou see it fitting in with your
business?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, so great question.
I've always loved to write andwriting is just cathartic for me
.
I wrote this morning.
I try to bang out like two,3000 words, whether I publish it
or not, whether it becomes partof something or not.
Like, I just love to write.
So for me it's like the perfectmedium to get out to people and
I love to converse with peopleon a deeper level than just
little soundbites.
And nothing wrong with theTikTok and YouTube culture and
(01:49):
all that.
It's just it's not the way Iprefer to express myself.
I like to take my time and thinkthrough things and write them
out, and that's.
I tend to attract more of thesame.
I've always loved to read and Ilove that type of thing.
So there's books all over myhouse.
I'm just you can see in mybackground here so I've always
been a geek on that side.
So when it came to writing abook, it always been a dream of
mine and it was one of thosethings that was like a Google
(02:11):
doc sitting around for yearsthat I just never published and
I finally just decided likelisten, I'm not coming out of my
office, I'm going to wear mybathrobe and slippers until this
thing is done, and I just gotinto a mode where I would crank
out two 3,000 words a day and Igot over the hurdle by just
hiring this really great editor.
Shout out to Rodney.
He's a freelancer out inFlorida who worked with us on
our first book, which wasactually a compilation.
(02:33):
It was just like a bunch ofpeople in Mastermind doing a
book together and it was like mystory plus their story is equal
to book.
I was like this is really cool,it was really easy.
It it was really easy, it wasreally fun.
It took all the nitty gritty,detail work and design work and
like what goes where and how doyou put this together and
actually make it a book off myplate.
So I could just do the thing Ilove and it was joyful which is
writing.
And concurrently I've been amastermind geek forever, a
(02:55):
personal development geek, butmastermind specifically.
I've joined 50 plus masterminds.
I've started two dozen of myown.
I started one of the largestones in San Diego back when
Chandler and I lived there.
We had 550 people in this thing, which is awesome, grew it word
of mouth over two years andI've had them from free and
invite only up to a hundredthousand a year I've helped
(03:15):
dozens of people hit the sevenfigure mark now with their
masterminds.
It's really cool If you hit theeight figure mark and I felt
thousands and thousands ofpeople launch them through
various things.
And it all started with thisbook, right, it started with
this book called the 8-MinuteMastermind.
So why did I write that?
Why did I call it that?
Well, the 7-Minute Mastermindwas taken.
No, I'm just kidding.
I really wanted a great title.
I really look up to guys likeTim Ferriss, the 4-Hour Workweek
, and I knew there needed to bea number in there.
(03:37):
It needed to.
And the eight-minute mastermindthing started from the hot seat
right, the core unit of value ina mastermind, in my opinion,
that sets it apart from all thecoaching and all the group stuff
and everything that is not amastermind is the hot seat.
It's an opportunity, if youdon't know what it is, to be
facilitated in front of yourpeers and ask questions and
(04:00):
supported and find out at thedeepest base level what is
reality currently for me, rightnow, so that you can make a new
decision, create a new plan, youknow, take a new action and get
a new result right, cause youcan't read the label from inside
the bottle.
You need clarity to move forward, and, as I got better and
better at these hot seats, Iwould like get them down to like
(04:20):
10 minutes, 12 minutes, eightminutes felt like the sweet spot
where we could at least get ahundred percent clear on what
was actually going on, lovingly,as a group, so that we could
then maybe support people andgive them suggestions and
connections and whatever elsethey needed to move forward with
their mission.
And that became the core thesisof the book.
It's what I teach, it's what Ihelp people facilitate and learn
how to do, and it really becamelike this movement.
(04:42):
It's been a really incrediblething.
People all over the world haveread this book that I've never
met before, and they're outbuilding masterminds now.
So it's a really wonderfulthing that I get to be a part of
.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
That's cool and I think there's a great lessons
there of when you've donesomething over and over again.
In your case you're coachingpeople through the process,
you're helping them startmasterminds.
There's just a lot of clarityin the content that needs to be
covered and you've kind ofyou've explained the concept a
bunch of times and then hadpeople ask questions, had people
(05:11):
trial and error, so it just itclarifies your writing before
you even start writing.
I guess when you initiallypublished the book, was it?
I mean, you knew, hey, I'mgoing to build a book, funnel
all that stuff around this.
This is going to be a directlead into the business.
I'm assuming that was theintention from the start, or did
that just kind of happen afterthe fact?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, it was weird.
I kind of backed into it.
So you remember, whenmastermindcom came out with the
big launch and they did, youknow, tony and Dean and all that
.
So I had launched my see Deanat the gym with his wife now
wife Lisa they were dating atthe time and we're catching up.
He's like, hey, I'm doing thisthing with Tony, really cool.
And then nothing happened for awhile.
And then I reached out to himlike, hey, I really want to be
(05:50):
involved with this.
It sounds cool, cause I hadheard from a client of mine, aj
Mirzad, shout out to him he's inThailand now I had heard from
what you guys got planned.
But I got to be a part of this.
I'm the mastermind guy.
This is like right up my alley.
So I'm bugging Dean, I'mbugging Dean, he finally
responds and I get involved.
And, long story short, I endedup partnering with them.
I ended up becoming a speakerfor them.
(06:12):
I was an affiliate first.
I came in 24th, the first year,eighth, the second year, out of
5,000 affiliates of the worldshutting down.
So it didn't go as well asplanned.
So I had all these dreams oflike, hey, I'm going to be a
speaker for Tony, I'm going totravel the world.
I was getting trained to dothat and we were like doing all
(06:32):
this and we're working with it,we're doing the workshops at the
big offices here in Scottsdale.
It was like all this stuff ishappening.
I went to work with my heroes.
World shut down and they wentall virtual and he built this
big, beautiful sound studio andhe's reaching 800,000 people and
1 million people and all thesedifferent things.
But all the speaking and analogtype stuff just went out the
(06:53):
window.
So I was left with like, okay,I know I can do it.
I know what the best in theworld are teaching.
I know what I've learned fromteaching a ton of people.
My program works.
I've got great case studies.
I've had a lot of people buildmasterminds and add six figures,
sometimes seven figures, totheir business.
It's been a reallytransformative thing.
What can I do to now separatemyself in the marketplace?
And when I got really clear, Iwas like I needed to write the
book.
So I launched this book in themiddle of the pandemic and what
(07:16):
was working for me in thatmoment was I knew what a free
plus shipping offer was.
I was Brian Delaney who builtJeremy Miner's funnel and built
it to seven figures with hisNEPQ, black belt questions and
sales stuff.
So I kind of had a framework.
I knew it worked.
I had the book, I knew exactlywhat I was going to sell and I
launched it and, believe it ornot, like I'm not a great
Facebook ads guy I can do it,but it's like not my core
(07:38):
competency I was getting $3 forevery dollar I was spending
front end.
So think about this for a minuteIf you find a machine where you
put a dollar in and $3 comes in, before you spend any more
money, before you have a salescall, before you even have an
enrollment conversation, beforeyou sell a high ticket profit
product, you're going to look inyour couch cushions for change
and spend as much money as youpossibly can until that's no
longer the case, right, becausethat window of opportunity is
(08:00):
closing.
So I think it was like aconvolution of all these
different things.
People are scared spendingmoney.
It's the middle of pandemic.
They're looking for a way to goonline and do group stuff.
I did all that and it was justcrushing and eventually it
became break even.
Eventually it cost me money,but on the back of that I was
able to build a crazy list andsell all these books and I was
just spending money as fast as Icould to make it happen and to
(08:20):
reach more people and then 45 to90 days later you'd be getting
the people starting to enroll inyour program and that's how we
did the backend, plus the eventsthat I did with Jay.
So that's that's like the shortstory.
I'm sure we could dive into thedetails about more how that
happened.
That was kind of the confluenceof events that brought us to do
it, and had the world not shutdown, I wouldn't have been a
position where, like, oh, myplan just went out the window,
(08:41):
what am I going to do?
And went and did something Inever did before.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Cool, wow, great story, love it.
Talk to me about.
Well, I guess I want to asksome more about how how you sold
a lot of these books.
It sounds like a lot throughthat, that funnel.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It was mostly, as there's some you know, affiliate
stuff.
We're on John Lee Dumas'spodcast, a bunch of big podcasts
that moved the needles.
We did a lot of promotions,partner promotions.
We eventually did events, youknow, off the back of that.
But I think the main thing thatsold the most was definitely
going on podcasts talking aboutit having a really clear link
8minutemastermindcom and I cankind of break down the funnel
(09:18):
for people because it's actuallygenerated millions of dollars.
So it'd be a helpful place tostart.
But if you just go there, thefirst thing you get is not the
book.
You don't get the pitch.
There's nothing to buy, right,it's just here's free value.
Here's three things I give them101 questions to ask as a
mastermind facilitator, right,so it's just easy value.
You can go and do a hot seatright now.
I give them 50 example hotseats and I give them a cheat
sheet so they can go and startdoing mastermind stuff right now
(09:39):
without the book, and then onthe next page you can get the
book.
So what am I doing?
Advance, I'm asking for anemail just to secure, right, so
I can follow up if they don'tgrab the book right away.
And I'm giving them a nobrainer offer.
I think it's $6.
I'll ship it anywhere in theworld which I'm losing money on,
just because I want to get itin their hands and they'll
actually read it.
And then we follow up with themiddle of the funnel and so on
and so forth.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
So if you're running ads to it, getting a three to
one.
Yeah, what were the strongestpieces?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
So it was the two pieces I mentioned, and then
there would be an upsell so youcould one click upsell to the
challenge which we had alreadypublished prior to that.
So that was like a quick, easyhit there.
I think there was anotherupsell, which was the offer
creation domination, cause yougot to think to yourself like
what are the things people aregoing to most want and struggle
with discreetly and alsotogether?
Right, cause you can't just doa kitchen sink offer as a small
(10:35):
thing.
You need to like, reallyspecifically pick a small ticket
item that you can actuallysolve their problem and get them
value.
Cause it's one thing forsomebody to buy, it's one thing
for somebody to grab the book orhave a chip to them.
It's a whole other thing to getthem consume and apply.
Right, buy is the first step,it's the hardest thing, uh.
But then the.
The next hardest thing, andwhere the money is really made
and where the relationshipsreally built and the trust is
(10:56):
really built, is did theyconsume my content?
Right, If I can't get them toconsume the content, I'm dead in
the water.
So that's my next thing.
And, uh, we also had a downsellthat I forget what it was.
Right now off the top of myhead, but this funnel has been
through many iterations, so backthen it was something different
than what it is today.
And with this new book I'm goingto revamp the whole thing again
and create cool AI tools thatare going to help people spit
(11:18):
out an offer in 30 seconds.
They could put any half-assedprompt they want in there and
they'll have an offer in 30seconds.
I've got a really cool marketresearch training, a really cool
sales training.
So like I'm just giving awayall my best stuff up front with
the hope that they actuallyconsume some of it Cause they do
.
They're going to get resultsand it's going to be gold and
they're going to be like oh myGod, and they're going to want
to have a conversation.
And that's really where the, the, the, the rubber meets the road
(11:47):
.
It's like if I can go in thehole for a month, two months,
three months, six months, andyou can't, that means I get your
clients right.
It's like how much can youspend on the front end to
acquire great leads, nurturethem and then ultimately be
profitable on the backend?
So I don't really care aboutthe book.
The book is a lead magnet, it'sa business card.
I try to.
You know key people like peopleare all like, oh, get on Amazon
bestseller.
Like I don't care about any ofthat because I want the
(12:10):
relationship Right.
So I'll spend what it takes toget it and as long as it makes
sense, I'm going to keep doingit.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Cool, it makes sense coming from your, I guess,
finance background.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, I think in numbers, right, I can't help it.
Yeah, exactly, most people arenot going to start there.
I think you start with writethe best MFN book you can
possibly write and then it'snever done.
Here's a really cool tidbit,which maybe you guys already are
on track.
But that book I've rewrittenfour times because I would get
feedback from people and I wouldlearn new things.
I would go back to it and belike, oh, there really needs to
(12:43):
be a little section about this,or I could add a bonus here, or
whatever.
Right.
So every year I'd rewrite thebook and call it expanded,
updated, revised, whatever.
And since I was ordering printcopies from KDP and shipping
them to a thing, I didn't haveto order more than maybe 500 at
a time or a thousand at a timeto just keep ahead of the next
couple of months or whatever itwas.
So I would just do that and Iwould rewrite it every every
(13:05):
year with my editor and be like,oh, let's, let's tweak and
change and update it.
So every single year it wasgetting better and tighter and
more, uh, capable of, like youknow, bringing people through.
And then I learned about, likenarrative storytelling and the
hero's journey and this arc thatwe can take people on.
So it's like people are gettingto know me and my struggles and
what I've gone through and andconnect with that on that level
(13:26):
as well, in addition to thereally great content.
So it's kind of a full package.
But if you're not thinking ofyour book as, if you think of
your book as like I finished,it's done and now it's just out
in the world, I think you'remissing a huge opportunity to
continue to make it better.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, I agree with that.
So let's kind of break downthis funnel a little bit.
So you're running ads, you'realso going on podcast, doing
affiliate promotions, all kindof like traffic sources leading
to this funnel.
Then on the funnel you said hey, you've got your landing page
and it's before you even get thebook.
Here's some free resources,here's a mastermind cheat sheet.
(13:59):
So purpose of that we'recapturing leads.
Now we've got that's loweringour cost per lead.
Obviously you could do atwo-step on the book if you
wanted to, but capture leadsThen it sounds like from there
they're going to the thank youpage, which is a delivery of
delivery of the lead magnet andI would assume also a two-step
(14:20):
for the book and that's a freeplus shipping right there.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's actually straight to the free plus
shipping offer, with resourcesbeing sent.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Deliver via email.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Correct.
And then there's like a bannerup top that says hey, it's going
to take five or 10 minutes toget your email.
In the meantime, here go orderyour book next.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Perfect, okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
So you got to keep them in the funnel right, Yep.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Got it, and so then, when they do that, is there any
sort of order form?
Bump.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yep, so there's an order form bump.
I think again, this is goingback a few years.
Originally we had we've testedlike five or six of them.
Originally we had somethinglike oh, it was the audio book
that really crushed, the audiobook read by me and I think we
charged.
I thought my funnel guy wascrazy.
I didn't build this by myself.
I had a great team Hawk Mercado.
You know a few Hawk and Kate.
They're great, but they theyrecommended.
I sell the audio book for $47.
And I'm like $47 for an audiobook.
That's nuts, but people boughtit.
People bought it a lot Like theywere more happy because now
(15:14):
they had the book and they couldread through and they could
listen or they could go back andforth and, for whatever reason,
that just worked way better.
So it was just strictly theaudio book exactly what it was,
but the the the point of thestory was I learned that you
need to meet people wherethey're at from a consumption
(15:35):
perspective, cause some peoplewant to read, some people want
to listen, some people want towatch a video, some people, you
know, they like podcasts,whatever it is like it all works
.
And once you have the book, it'sa lot easier to create the
other assets right, cause nowyou already have all that.
It's like you did the hardthing once of like you know
scripting it all out andformulating it proper.
Now it's much easier to likehey, I can do a mini course Like
what harm was he did?
(15:55):
I mean, he crushed it with thatlaunch where he he's like
here's my book and you buy thebook and you'll get the course
for free.
And even if you don't buy thebook, here's the course for free
and you know he does allYouTube videos and everything.
He has the money to do it.
One asset and it's starting towork.
I 100% you need to leverage itto other visual, kinesthetic
audio.
(16:15):
You need to hit all thedifferent modalities there.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, I agree with that.
And for folks watching,listening at home, if you go
chapter 23 in my book publishedand then go to page 186, we've
got kind of a whole breakdown ofall the funnels and stuff free,
plus shipping funnels, all that.
We've got kind of a wholebreakdown of all the funnels and
stuff free, plus shippingfunnels, all that.
You can walk through kind ofmore of this stuff order form,
bumps, upsell pages, otos, allthat stuff.
So we'll jump back into thefunnel.
(16:41):
So we've got the one-time offerthrough the audio book plus
some bonus resources.
We've seen that work really,really well as well.
Now I'm assuming we're going tothe one-time offer.
And that's where you said 21day challenge 21 day challenge
what's the price point?
Speaker 2 (16:56):
so the uh, it was normally 97 offer.
We did it for 77 if they boughtit within the funnel right,
okay and then the.
The goal with that again, it's21 days broken out of like.
Here are the steps to build amastermind.
It's literally like me I did.
I filmed it all in one day, sodon't think it's a huge thing.
Like I wrote, wrote it in oneday, I filmed it in another day
and I delivered it and we soldthousands of copies of it.
(17:17):
And the goal is not, again, tomake money, it's just subsidize
the cost of running ads.
So the goal of that is give themone action item every day, one
to two slides to look at alittle bit of content, a little
bit of teaching tool.
Maybe it's 10 to 15 minutesthat day and then go do this
thing.
And oh, by the way, if you wantto accelerate your progress, if
you want to talk to us, if youhave questions, book a call book
(17:37):
, a call book, a call.
Every middle of the funnelpiece of content is booking a
call.
It's establishing social proof,it's giving them value.
It's book a call.
It's like everything that weare doing is call related and we
were generating calls from thebook.
We're generating calls in thepodcast.
We're generating calls in thechallenge.
We're generating calls from anymiddle of the funnel content.
It's only job is to build arelationship, add value and book
(18:00):
a call Cause.
Ultimately there's people aregoing to DIY and they're never
going to be your people andthey're never going to invest
beyond what they already did.
And then there's people are likehey, I just want to work with
Brad, I want to go faster, Iwant to cut through all this
stuff.
I realized that I need to justfocus and invest time, energy,
attention, resources because, AI don't know what I don't know
and I want to fill in the gapsin my knowledge, and, B I prefer
(18:21):
not to waste time, energy,attention and money.
I prefer to invest thoseresources into people and
systems and proven mentorshipand a path that's tried and just
.
I need somebody to hold my handand walk me to the promised
land, and that's what we do.
It's simple.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Cool, Love that.
So 97, uh discounted to 77, ifthey buy it on the spot and I
think you said there was onemore, uh, one-time offer, Number
two.
That was like the offercreation or something.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Offer creation, domination, baby.
So the number one outcome ofthat and we've even made this
better Now I can literally sendyou a link where it's like put
your idea for a.
We call them a hypotheticaloffer document, or HOD.
So put your hypothetical offeridea in here, like I want to
make a mastermind forself-published offers, bam, and
it'll just go through my wholerubric.
It's been trained on all mycontent and knows exactly how to
(19:13):
do it.
It'll spit out like a minute.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It's awesome cool, and what's the price point on?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
that.
That one was, I think, 197.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
We've tested 197 and and the.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
The lesson I kept having to learn over and over
again that I, you know, I, you,everybody has a little imposter
syndrome is like, are peoplegoing to borrow those?
And actually, not only did theybuy it more when you raise the
prices, they bought it moreoften and they were more
satisfied.
It was the weirdest thing.
The more you charge, forwhatever reason, up to a point
like after 497.
So I'll make a little detourhere.
(19:44):
So if you're going to sell in afunnel as a one-click thing,
anything 497 below can work.
If you're good enough to sellit and it's a, it's a product
people actually want, they willbuy it.
Above four 97.
You really get into webinar VSLterritory up to maybe like the
2,500 range.
After 2,500, unless you're likeRyan Levesque or somebody who's
really, really good Uh, youknow what's his name.
Um, the guy with Sedona, uh,brian, uh, shit, I forget his
(20:06):
name.
Anyway, uh, unless you'rereally good above 3000 or so,
you're gonna have a lot oftrouble selling without a phone
call and and after.
That's like phone call eventterritory, like that's where
you're going to get into.
You know three-day events andone-on-one sales calls.
So like just knowing what youcan sell 500 and less in a
funnel with the one click upsellor whatever.
Uh is helpful, right Cause it'llgive you a parameter but I want
(20:27):
you to test every price pointwithin that zero to dollar to
497, like test everything,because you just don't know you
might raise the price and youget better conversions.
It's wild, I don't understandit.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Or you might double the price and get 25% less
people take it which is stillpositive, right yeah.
And so after that are theygoing to the thank you page
after OTO number two.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
You don't get to the thank you page until you've seen
everything.
Yeah, you get two upsells, adownsell and then you go to the
thank you page.
Unless you just click no, no,no, then you go right to the
thank you page.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I see, got it.
So then there was a downsellafter that, and then there was a
thank you page no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
But even if they don't buy something, as long as
they're in the funnel, as longas they're consuming something,
as long as they're getting somevalue.
I get a second bite at theApple right.
What you don't want is they sawan ad, they clicked around,
they didn't do anything, or theybought something and they just
never looked at it.
That's the worst.
And then you get refunds andyou get upset, people charging
back and stuff like that.
That's not what I want.
I want people to have a goodexperience.
(21:42):
They want to come away with agood feeling.
They want to get some sort ofvalue, even if it's just a quick
skim.
And what was your average ordervalue?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I know this probably fluctuates over time and
depending on yeah, it was likeStuff like that.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I think we got as high as like 140 bucks at one
point.
It was pretty high, so 140 atthe highest per book purchaser
and then probably in like 70 to80, was more sustainable
long-term yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Okay, 70 to 80.
Yep, that makes sense.
And then, what was your costper?
Because I'm assuming you'relooking at two stats.
Your most important stat islike your cost per book claim or
your cost per book purchase.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
That's what I was really tracking, that was the
one thing that kind of ruled itall.
So in the beginning, like I wassaying, I was getting three to
one, so it was awesome.
That didn't sustain.
That was like for the firstmonth or two.
It started to trickle down.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
eventually just break even After a while I was
comfortable selling $50 books,meaning I would pay somebody $50
to buy my $6 free plus shippingoffer.
Hypothetically right and justfor people listening or watching
.
I mean you're not literallypaying 50 bucks.
Well, you're literally paying50 bucks.
You're not paying them 50 bucksyou might have facebook or
google or youtube or whateverright.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I'm paying that much money in advertising so that
somebody will buy the book forsix dollars and then I lose
money on shipping.
I lose money on on all right Idon't know what my actual cost
ends up being, but I'm stilllike that model can still work
within up to that number.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
If it got to 80 or 100, it would stop working as
well do you remember what youraverage like CBA or cost per
acquisition on the book purchasewas?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, it was probably .
I started getting a little bitmore.
I would start spending lesswhen I was at 50 and I would go
back to the drawing board.
I try to keep it under 50.
So like I never let it get above50, because that's where the
model started to break down,cause you know a certain number
of people have to buy booksbefore you get a certain number
of sales calls, before you getan actual buyer.
And you got to recognize we'rein the most inflationary period
(23:39):
in modern history.
As far as the United States isconcerned, they've printed four
times the amount of money thatexisted 20 years ago.
So everything eventually needsto catch up to that.
So, even though the market isquadrupled, even though real
estate is quadrupled and pricingis quadrupled, it's like you
got to realign your perceptionof what things cost so that
you're not going on old numbers.
So even my numbers from a fewyears ago are not relevant
(24:01):
anymore.
I'm willing to spend more, butI also have to raise my prices.
I have to charge more so thateverything makes sense.
Right, it's just the numbersgame.
You have to be ahead of that.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
You have to really think about it, that makes sense
.
And so then it sounds likeyou're better than break-even on
the front end, self-liquidatingthrough that funnel, and then,
I'm assuming, the back end.
Like you said, all roads leadto book a call, and then the
book a call is selling some sortof high ticket offer.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Exactly it started.
The beta was at 5K.
We worked it up to like eight.
Up until recently we were at9,800.
That's where it was for thelongest time and now we just
kicked it up.
We expanded the offer.
It's more like a scale yourcoaching business type offer.
(24:48):
So masterminds are a componentof it, but there's, you know, ai
tools.
Now there's a full suite of ofwe have.
We call it Panda Dash.
It's like a go high level labelwhich is like your entire
business in a box.
That alone saves us 30 grand ayear.
It's like we've added a bunchof really cool stuff bells and
whistles, bonuses, one dayworkshops, three day events, all
that great stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
So that is a full bundle for 15K 15, five zero, or
one five, one five, yeah Cool,love it Okay, love it Okay,
awesome.
And so that's there it is,folks.
That is the $2 million bookfunnel, and so I guess I'm
curious what I would assuming.
I would assume, let's say, hey,2 million from that funnel.
(25:23):
I would assume probably two to500K of that.
Is that maybe even less thanthat is the self-liquidating,
and then the rest is the backend.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, Great question.
So I don't have those numbersbroken down exactly.
I'm just strictly speakingabout the 2 million in in sales
on the backend.
So I don't even I don't eventalk about that.
So, like I would say,one-to-one sales calls, we sold
about eight 900 K and then therest came from events.
Cause that's where it reallytook off.
So a quick detour.
(25:52):
I did four events with mymentor and former business
partner, jay Fizette.
We just went on a tear, did abunch of events.
It was great.
We sold about a million won offof that.
That was a larger ticket, butit was both of our stuff
together, so they were payingmore but they were getting more.
That contributed quite a bit tothe revenue.
So now my model going forward islike book funnel on the front
(26:13):
end with other stuff too.
I'll continue to do other stuff, but that's like the main
driver.
That's why I wrote the new bookand that's why it's coming out
in January.
So yeah, if you get on thislist now 8minutemastermindcom,
you'll be notified when thatlaunches.
That's out to the editor.
I have another meeting next week.
I'm really excited about this.
This is the best book I'll everwrite on the topic and the last
one I'll ever write on thetopic is.
I'm only working with 750 moreclients and then I am done.
(26:34):
Donezo, want to move on toother things?
You got to have a period at theend of the sentence.
I'm a punctuation nerd, but thelong story short is now I know
what works right, so we got theone-on-one thing, we've got the
groups, we've got the.
I'm just putting it alltogether in the best possible
format.
After having done this foralmost seven years in this
(26:55):
particular iteration and morethan 20 years in business, now I
know what works.
I'm just going to go do it andI'm going to make it the best I
possibly can, and my goal is tomake 5 million within three
years on the book by the bookitself.
So I think, given our successwith the first one and knowing
what we know now, absolutelypossible to do that.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Cool, I like it and so interesting.
I think what I love about thismodel, and for people listening,
watching, who want to replicatethis, is that you're
self-liquidating, or at leastclose to it.
By the time they even book acall with your team, and so it's
essentially free customeracquisition because you're
breaking even on the book.
(27:39):
And then, not to mention,you're getting a ton of leads
who don't even claim the bookright.
So I mean it's-.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
We do affiliate and other offers.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
A hundred percent, but then even just those people
who drop off after the firstfree piece, I mean that's like
not even factored into theequation, but essentially
thousands of free leads on thatas well, maybe even more than
that, and so I think it's justreally interesting model for
people thinking about it.
And this is what I love aboutbook funnels is you're adding so
(28:08):
much value at the start, and Imean I'd be curious what your
experience is, brad.
I know for my experience.
My sales team loves when peopleget on the phone with them
after they've read the book orbought the book.
They're like these are the bestprospects.
Yeah, so you say about this waygang.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
You're in business to help people, the more ways you
can help them and the deeper youcan help them before you even
talk to them.
Like that's the dream.
There's no convincing, it'sjust oh, how does this look?
They have a few questions andthey want to buy.
That's it.
And you know we're throwing alot of numbers around because
numbers are easier to track.
But think about the impact here.
There's thousands of people outthere now through
self-publishing, school, throughbuild, a mastermind
(28:57):
no-transcript missed in sixyears.
It's like you know.
It's a blessing, it's a gift,and I spend the rest of my time
with my family and my wifetraveling, uh, working on the
business instead of in thebusiness.
It's a great thing and I don'teven need to do it.
It's just, it's what I love todo.
It's what I love to do and I'mas good as I'll ever be, I'm as
(29:17):
young as I've ever been and Ijust want to go out on a bang.
I really want to pass this alongand I jumped at this
opportunity to speak to youbecause I feel like so many
authors get into this for notthe right reasons or they
haven't thought it all the waythrough.
They just don't understand,they don't know what they don't
know.
They're like thinking, oh, Iwant to write a book so I get
more speaking gigs Okay, why, soI can get more clients?
Well, why even need?
You, don't need thatnecessarily.
(29:38):
Or I want to write a book soI'm an expert.
Or I want to write a book so Ican become JK Rowling and make a
billion dollars and havefricking queen Victoria.
You know, like, whatever reasonyou're doing it, uh, understand
that the book is not thebusiness model.
The business model is thebusiness model.
The book is the lead in and itworks so.
(29:59):
So if you start treating itthat way and just you start,
like, shifting your perspectiveof what's possible.
You know, if you ask theaverage author, like, would you
spend $50 to get somebody to buyyour book, even if they don't
read it, they would say, no,take a hike, that's crazy, right
.
But when you shift the model,you start realizing, oh, that's
just the beginning.
Now the whole thing opens upfor you.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Love.
That book is just the beginning.
I think that's a good, goodplace to end, brad, I'd say a
couple of final questions.
One what would be your partingpiece of advice for people
thinking about going on thisbook and book funnel journey,
knowing what you've known, whatyou know, knowing what you know
now?
And then the last questionwould be well, I'll ask the last
(30:41):
question.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
All right.
So advice you know everybody'sgot advice right, and I can only
speak from my experience.
It's not where you start up,it's where you end up If you can
just keep getting a little bitbetter every day, like 1% better
every day.
After a year it's not addition,it's not 365% better, it's
3,778% better right, if you gotthat kind of return in the stock
(31:02):
market, you'd be prettythrilled.
So I'm just saying commit tobeing 1% better every day, and I
do that by just writing a lot.
I try to write every day.
It's something that calms me,it's something that soothes me,
it's something that inspires me,it's something that allows me I
don't even publish most of it,but I just love it.
And one day, you know, I willhave written a million plus
words or some crazy thing, andmaybe I have already, I don't
know.
But like, the point is to do ita lot and you'll get really
(31:25):
good at it.
So, whatever you're committedto being better at, just do it a
little bit better every day andyou'll, you'll get there.
Yeah, that's my advice.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Cool and Brad, where can people go to find out more
about you, to check out theeight minute mastermind book, et
cetera?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, so you can go to build a mastermindcom and
check out our program.
A little more about me.
You could see me and my wifeand you know our little family
and you know understand what itis.
There's a bunch of greatcontent on there.
You can watch a webinar.
You can do all that good stuff.
So if you're interested in whatwe do and a mastermind would be
a great fit to add on yourbusiness, or you have a
mastermind but it's notoptimized the way you want it to
be, we're here to help.
(32:00):
This is what we do.
We do it all day.
I believe we're the best in theworld at it.
And then, additionally, likeRussell says, you know, go into
funnels, pull out your wallet,see how it's done, and you're
going to save a lot of heartacheand time and energy.
You can go to8minutemastermindcom, grab your
book and you'll also be on thelist for when I launch Million
(32:20):
Dollar Masterminds early nextyear Coming soon, we might be
cooking up something togetherhere on this.
Let's do it, baby, I love it.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Well, guys, thanks for being here.
Brad, thank you so much forbeing here.
If you're interested in gettingstarted on your book, book a
call with our team.
Go to selfpublishingcom.
Forward slash talk.
We'd love to chat with you.
Help you with your book, brad,you're the man Much love.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Chandler.
Thank you everybody.
Have a beautiful day.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.