November 20, 2024 • 45 mins
What happens when a former British Army captain turns into a best-selling mystery and thriller author? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Steve Higgs, whose journey from the military to full-time writing is as compelling as his novels. We talk about his transformation from soldier to scribe, sharing how his initial lack of support only fueled his desire to write. Discover how his debut novel, "Paranormal Nonsense," became a reality and how Steve's story is a testament to the power of following your creative passions despite life's roadblocks.
Get ready to recharge your writing habits as we unpack the secrets to maintaining a regular writing schedule. Learn why discipline, often honed in military settings, can be your greatest ally in keeping the creative juices flowing. With Steve's humorous anecdotes on character creation and genre-hopping—from urban fantasy to cozy mysteries—you'll be inspired to embrace your unique writing style. We also touch on the challenges of balancing your craft with personal commitments, and why motivation doesn't always come from where you expect.
Finally, we tackle the myth of overnight success and share practical tips on navigating the path to author stardom. Discover how networking and learning from experienced authors can accelerate your journey. This episode is packed with insights on everything from marketing strategies to the unpredictable nature of success. Plus, we're excited to announce a series of fiction-focused episodes coming in November, just in time to boost your NaNoWriMo efforts. Whether you're a seasoned author or just starting out, you're sure to find inspiration and practical advice to fuel your writing journey.
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Here are some links that might come in handy:
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Must-watch episodes:
- SPS 044: Using A Free + Shipping Book Funnel with Anik Singal
- SPS 115: Using Atomic Habits To Write & Publish A Book with James Clear
- SPS 127: Traditional vs. Self Publishing: Which You Should Choose with Ruth Soukup
- SPS 095: The Five Love Languages: Selling 15 Million Copies with Gary Chapman
- SPS 056: How I Sold 46M Copies of My Self Published Book with Robert Kiyosaki
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, chandler Bolt here and joining me today.
We've got two very specialguests.
This is a very unique episodeof the Self-Publishing School
podcast.
We're doing a fiction takeover.
So in the month of Novemberwe're doing a NaNoWriMo fiction
takeover of the podcast.
We've got a lot of great gueststhat are going to be coming and
talking fiction people who havedone it, who have become six
(00:27):
and seven figure fiction authors, teaching the process.
So we're going to be talkingabout fiction editing.
We're going to be talking aboutcover design, fiction cover
design.
We'll have a fiction roundtable with a lot of our authors
from our Fundamentals of Fictionand Full-Time Fiction program.
A lot of things to come.
But today we're talking to SteveHiggs, so I'm going to pass the
mic here to Rami here in just asecond.
(00:49):
If you're on the YouTubechannel you can see both of them
.
But we've got Rami, aka AriVance, in the house.
He runs the fiction program atSelf-Publishing School, has
published I can't even keep up40, 50, 60 fiction books I don't
(01:09):
even know how many at thispoint.
I think 80,000 copies sold justlast year and has coached
hundreds, if not thousands, ofour fiction authors on their
publishing journey here atselfpublishingcom.
So we're in great company.
I'm gonna be the dumbnonfiction guy today and be a
fly on the wall, maybe asking,maybe, if you guys get too
advanced, I'm gonna ask some ofthe basic questions our
listeners want to hear, but I'llpass it to you, rami, to give
(01:30):
an intro of Steve and then wecan dive in.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
All right.
Well, I'm really happy to haveSteve here today.
I met Steve like what?
Six years ago now, I guess itwould have been and five and a
bit, five and a bit, yeah.
And I, uh, five and a bit, fiveand a bit, yeah.
And I will say that, like theday I met you, steve, I was like
, if this guy doesn't becomefull-time, like no one will
right.
Like you went into thatconference and you literally
(01:55):
asked every single person a tonof questions, um, me included,
and it was just, it was a lot offun watching me work that room.
I gotta be honest, um and um.
So I have an interesting bio.
Now I'll say that some of thestuff on this bio I didn't even
know.
So uh, steve is a formerbritish uh, army captain term
(02:17):
best-selling mystery andthriller author.
I I'm not.
I take no credit for this bio.
By the way, this was was theself-publishing school's social
media team.
He started his career as a carmechanic before joining the
military.
He won his first creativewriting prize at the age of 10.
And his debut novel, paranormalNonsense, was written while
(02:38):
still serving in the army.
I did not know that.
I thought you had left.
Currently living in southeastEngland, picturesque countryside
, with two sausage dogs I alsodidn't know that about your dogs
and claims to have ideas forover 100 books waiting to be
written.
He's a self-described humorist.
Oh, there we go, perfect.
(02:59):
He's a self-described humoristwho folks wanted.
His was a mechanic, past amilitary service and now he's a
full-time author enjoying localbeer, castles and vineyard views
.
So welcome Steve.
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Thank you.
Thank you very much forinviting me on the show.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So first question is what inspired you to make these
major career shifts, especiallythe leap into becoming an author
, after you know your colorfulpast um?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I you know I I think I was always a writer right.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I think if I'd had different parents I probably
would have, uh, never joined themilitary.
But I came from a, along-standing military family,
um, and multiple generationsahead of me, uh, had had gone
that route, and I was the fourthor fifth children, and the
elder three were already in themilitary, and so I think it was
preordained pretty much before Iwas born that that's where I
(03:55):
was going.
But that sort of love of thewritten word stayed with me and
I wrote columns for militarynewspapers and did stuff like
that while I was in the army, um, but I was one of those people
who kept saying I'm going towrite a book, I'm going to write
a book and I had, I had allthese ideas in my head and
swirling around and never reallyfound time for them because I
(04:15):
was doing other things andstudying, um, uh, you know,
opening university courses andstuff like that, getting ready
for the inevitable transitionfrom the literally to civilian
life.
And just in the end I got boredsaying the same thing but bored
listening to myself, and justdecided to shut up and do it,
which is advice I give to a lotof people is, um, and there's no
(04:38):
, there's no better, there's nobetter way of getting things
done than to actually start them.
And so I was in the twilight ofmy military career, as you've
already highlighted, when Istarted writing Paranormal
Nonsense, the first book Ipublished.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah, so I actually have a question about Paranormal
Nonsense.
But I want to ask you anotherquestion which I realized
despite knowing you for so manyyears, and I don't know how many
conversations we have had overthe years.
What did your military familythink when you first published a
book and then?
How did that tune change whenyou made it a proper career?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
uh, I think, actually I think this is this is this is
fairly typical for a lot ofauthors, especially the indie
ones.
There's a complete lack ofsupport from family members,
including loved ones, because,you're putting, it's a lot of
time and effort.
It's no small thing to write abook of any length.
(05:40):
So there was a complete lack ofsupport from everybody,
ridicule, certainly, at times,questioning why I was wasting my
time with such a foolishendeavour, even after I
published it, and I probablypublished five or six books
before anyone sort of startedpaying attention because
suddenly there was money comingthrough the door and it was only
(06:04):
really at that point that, uh,that the the tune started to
change.
So I, I, I from from myexperience talking to other
authors that that's not unusual.
There's a very distinct lack ofsupport for this wild,
ridiculous dream that they'vegot about being being a writer.
Um, and my, my story was nodifferent.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean myself included.
My wife's super supportive,super loving, always helped me.
But it was the day that Ishowed her how much money I was
making and she looked at it andsaid, is that how much you made
this year?
And I said, no, that's how muchI made this month and then
that's when it changed.
I mean, she's always beensupportive.
I don't want to say that, butyes, okay, so you wrote
(06:47):
paranormal nonsense while youwere serving as a captain.
How did you balance militaryduties with creative writing?
I didn't bother doing any work.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
See the funny thing about the Army and a lot of
people don't realize this is,while you're not away, on ops
there isn't actually a lot to do?
You're not trying to satisfyany customers.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
The customers from a military perspective are the
people you're shooting.
So, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, I'm in the twilight of myarmy career.
I didn't, I didn't, I meangoing to the gym for three hours
.
That's a legitimate armyactivity.
So I would balance things likethat with actually I'm going to
(07:28):
do this.
I was married, but living andworking, so my wife was in Kent
and I'm in Hampshire and there'sa good sort of two-hour drive
between the two, so I wouldn'tbother coming home every night.
It's just too far to come.
So I would be in essentially abedroom with an armchair and a
(07:53):
table and I would sit rightthere.
But I didn't finish the bookwhile I was in the military.
I couldn't get it done, so Itransitioned out and got put
down for quite some time.
It actually took me five yearsto finish that first book and
get it published.
Which, um, you?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
know, and again, I don't think that's unusual.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I I speak to a lot of people who who deliberate for
years over that, over that firstbook, um, actually trying to
figure out how to finish it,learning the process, I think,
as much as anything yeah, I know, absolutely totally echoed my
story as well.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
First book, 14 years.
Second book, nine months.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, you know, yeah, very similar.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I hear that a lot hey , let me ask a follow-up here,
rami.
I'd be curious, steve.
Two-part question one whatwould be your advice for people
who don't have a job where theycan do nothing, but they have a
job where they're like, hey, I'mlucky to squeeze in 30 minutes
an hour a day or whatever?
What would be your advice forthose folks?
And then, if you were to goback and maybe we go around the
(08:48):
horn on this too for you, rami,is, how would you shortcut that
five-year first book and getthat book done in a shorter time
period?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
One of the biggest obstacles that people have to
overcome, in my experience, isconfidence Confidence that what
you're doing is going to beworth it at the end.
Um, which is a very difficultthing because you've got nothing
to base it on.
You've got nobody in your team,no one's supporting you and
saying, no, actually, yeah, Ithink you can do this, um, so
you, you've.
You've got that.
You're lacking that.
I think most people are lackingthat, and certainly I was, so
(09:21):
the.
The advice I I I give to peopleI get invited to go to
conferences and talk on thissubject of productivity is to is
to carve out time in your life,and I tell people to stop
sleeping on a regular basis.
That that's my advice.
Get up at five o'clock in themorning.
I use myself as an example.
(09:42):
So you know, prior to, prior toquitting my job, prior actually
to the point when Rami met me,um, in the, in the almost 12
months leading up to, uh, julyof 2019, those glorious days in
Edinburgh where, uh, where Ramiand I first met, um, I, uh, I
would, I would go to bed, um,having having written for
(10:02):
several hours.
So you know, I'm married, I'vegot a child, um, my child would
go to bed.
My wife would go to bed.
I would then stay up forseveral hours.
So you know, I'm married, I'vegot a child.
My child would go to bed.
My wife would go to bed.
I would then stay up forseveral hours writing, crawl
into bed after midnight, get upat five o'clock and write again.
I would then cycle 10 miles towork, work, my morning take my
(10:23):
lunch break and go outside andwrite for another hour and you
know an hour is 500 words orit's 1,000 words, depending on
how it's like and then I wouldwrite again of an evening and I
would continue with that processpretty much to the point of
collapse, and then find somesleep and then start again.
I managed to crank out 17 booksin nine months while in
full-time employment as directorof an engineering company,
doing about 70 hours' work aweek.
(10:44):
Yeah, that's full-timeemployment as director of an
engineering company doing about70 hours work a week.
Yeah, that, that, that'sfull-time commitment.
Now, that's a pretty extremeversion and I don't I'm not
encouraging anyone to go downthat route.
Point is you've got to find timein your life and you need it to
be regular.
I think if you, if you, if youwrite 500 words and don't look
at that manuscript again for sixmonths, it's, it's going to be
impossible to pick up you leftoff.
If you're writing every day oron a regular basis, so two or
(11:08):
three times a week, it's so mucheasier to keep your head in the
story and keep it movingforward.
You've got to believe in theend product and believe that the
story you've got in your headthrough just through the, just
through effort, will find itsway onto the page, you'll get to
(11:28):
the end.
So if you're going to write an80 000 word book and you and you
don't have anything to do, uh,that's going to take up your
time, let's say you're onholiday.
Let's say you've got time offfrom work.
Most people can write athousand words in an hour, so an
80 000 word book is 80 hours.
If you get up on monday morningand start writing by thursday,
the book's finished.
Yeah, again, that's a prettyextreme version, but it really
(11:52):
is.
It's that simple.
It's divisible by hours.
You need 80 hours to write thatbook or something like that, or
60 hours if it's a shorter book, or 40 hours or whatever it is.
You've just got to find thosehours.
So how quickly can you findthem?
Make a Thursday night date withyourself in a back bedroom and
all you do is write.
Don't take your phone with you,don't connect to the internet.
(12:14):
Have no distractions.
Have that thing right in yourlunch breaks, right in the
morning.
Get up on a Sunday and writeuntil it's time to go to church
or whatever your habits are.
Find that time.
So that's my how people shouldtackle that, because most people
trying to get into this willhave something that takes up the
(12:39):
majority of their time.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Did that help?
I would like to to.
Not about me, but like so, whenI was in early in the early
days of writing, so, like I hadthree books, I was making a
little bit of money and, um, Isomehow weaseled my way.
This is that, uh, in vegas, bythe way, steve, which I know,
you and I've been to, so Iweaseled my way into a dinner
(13:07):
for seven, like basicallyeveryone.
There was high six figures ofthose seven figures, like they
were all there, and I noticedthat, with the exception of two
people, all there were 10 people.
Well, there were more than 10people, but I was kind of taking
note of, like, the 10 topperformers.
All eight out of the 10 eitherhad a military background or
(13:31):
were a high performer in martialart or what do you call it.
Had a very good technicalbackground, like the ability to
read large swaths of data.
Right, like those were thethree qualities that eight out
of 10 people had.
And so discipline right, it'sthat it's just the ability to
(13:55):
override your willpower.
So I didn't have thatdiscipline.
I'm overweight.
If I get into a fight, pushcomes to shove.
I'm in the fetal position,right, like it's like I'm
overweight.
If I get into a fight.
Push comes to shove.
I'm in the fetal position,right Like it's like I'm not
that guy.
But when I saw that I was like,how do I become that guy?
And my way was my wife waspregnant and I just went all
(14:18):
right, I'm going to die and Iwant my kids to be proud of me.
How do I do that?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And that, just that, just that just yeah, you're
talking about that motivatingfactor and and people, if they
want to write, it's very, veryeasy to procrastinate, it's very
easy to put it off because youdon't know how to move forward.
Move forward anyway, yeah, andfigure it out as you go yeah, no
, absolutely, and that's what I.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Honestly, that was the one quality that really
stood out that first time we metis that he has the confidence.
He just doesn't have theknowledge right.
That's why you were justhitting everyone.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
No, you're not.
No, I get that.
Yeah, it's.
The confidence is the thingthat comes with the kind of
background I've got.
But other people you know youdon't need to be military or you
don't need to be military tohave that level of discipline or
that level of confidence.
You can go out there and decidethat you're going to do it.
There's plenty of people inother walks of life that are
very successful.
You take a cross-section of theauthor, the successful author
(15:21):
community, and there's peoplethere from all walks of life.
So people out there listeningto this shouldn't think that
they're going to strugglebecause they're not military and
they don't have that backgrounddiscipline.
They can.
They can teach themselves that.
Um, they, they, if they want,if and his, if you, if they want
to be an author, they'll find away.
(15:43):
If they don't find a way, thenthey don't really want it.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Right, but don't sell yourself short, steve, because
after this podcast lands.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
What do you call it?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Recruitment in all militaries is going to go
skyrocketing.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I'm not here trying to sell the military.
No, stay at home and write.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
All right.
So my next question is how doyou manage your creative
overflow?
Because I get this question alot with my students.
So a lot of my students havefinished several books or a full
series at this point and thenthey're like, well, what do I
write next?
I want to be a little bit morethoughtful as to what's going to
work.
So how do you decide what towrite next?
And I might ask a secondquestion is how did you decide
(16:32):
to move from urban fantasy tocozy?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
right like.
I'll circle back to that whenyou might need to remind me the.
The answer on how I decidewhat's right next is generally
whimsy.
Okay, um, because I have somany ideas and just above my
laptop screen, as I'm looking atyour, your faces, is a
whiteboard littered, litteredwith ideas, um, that that I, you
know, and there's a chunk ofthem I'll never get to, but I, I
think, I think I'm right insaying that I'm currently
(16:58):
writing eight different series,right, um, flitting from one
book to the next, to the next,to the next, um, four or five of
them are completely intertwined.
So, um, I'm writing a seriesabout a wedding planner, who,
who keeps finding his own.
This is cozy mystery.
So I mean, this is, this ismainstream cozy mystery stuff.
(17:18):
She's a wedding planner, she'sgot a cat and a dog whose voices
she can hear and she, uh, she'scompletely clueless when it
comes to solving crimes and shekeeps, um, she's a high-end
wedding planner for celebritiesand rich and that sort of thing.
And she in the final book inthe series is, uh, is managing.
She's been, she's been hired tomanage the fictitious, the
(17:39):
royal wedding of the fictitiousking's third son, um, and that's
going to go completely sideways.
Um, but I'm bringing in three,three other series into that
story that I'm writing andintertwining that because you
know I find a reader and theywind up reading 100 plus books
because they can't escape inthree other series into that
story that I'm writing andintertwining that Because I find
a reader and they wind upreading a hundred plus books
because they can't escape them,because all the stories are
intertwined.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
So what do I write next?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Whatever I can't resist generally, or that I've
got a deadline fast approachingfor sometimes, so I'm writing
the book I'm writing now becauseit leads into the book that I'm
writing after that, which is acompletely separate series.
But I have to write this onefirst, and the one that I'm
writing next has got a deadlinein January, so I've got to get
on with it before I feel thatfire underneath my toes too much
(18:26):
.
Back in January, I took my sonto uh, the natural history
museum.
We stayed, we stayed overnight,which is the thing you can do
and, uh, I had him my, myeight-year-old at the time
running around in the uh thedinosaur exhibition with his
flashlight, having time of hislife, um, and while we were
(18:46):
there, he came up with a, astory which about eight weeks
later was a book.
Right, and it's that.
You know he, he was beingcreative and whimsy.
I went with, the wind blew me,he wanted to write a book, and
so now we've got a trilogy ofdinosaur stories.
How, how did I wind up goingfrom urban fantasy to cozy
(19:09):
mystery is I'm stupid.
Um and I don't know what I'mdoing, and and everyone laughs
when I say that because like no,steve, you make huge amounts of
money and, um, and your booksare all bestsellers, like, no, I
don't, I don't have thefaintest clue what I'm doing.
Uh, I wrote, I wrote, um, thecoziness became about.
So I was still, I was stillemployed, um, and uh, the lovely
(19:31):
receptionist, uh, as I'm, asI'm going out, I think I'm off
to a meeting or something butshe, uh, she, she wanted to ask
me how I come up with mycharacters, because she was
reading one of my books I guessit was known that I was
publishing at the time uh, andshe asked me about how I come up
with them.
And so, just to show off asmuch as anything else, I stood
in the doorway and devised acharacter, put her into a
(19:53):
situation, gave her a name, gaveher um, I gave her like a
compounding factor that wasgoing to force her into into a
specific uh route in her life,and and came up with a story and
that then skewed in my head forsix months and I hadn't, I
hadn't intended to, but I, Ijust went.
No, I'm gonna have to writethis because it's interesting to
(20:15):
me and I I'd never heard theterm cozy mystery.
I didn't know what it was untilafter I published that book,
which was?
It was, um, it was kind ofintended to be murder.
She wrote style agatha christiekind of mystery stuff, but then
was described by everyone apartfrom the fact that it's cozy
mysteries generally beingdescribed as diehard, with
(20:37):
Angela Lansbury in the lead roleand there's an awful lot of
people getting shot and gettingchased and she's running away
with a Dachshund under one armand a gin and tonic in the other
.
She's trying to slurp one orspilling, yeah, so.
So my book are I don't want tosay my books are all the same,
because they're not all the same, but they're all kind of the
same flavour.
They're very fast-paced action,humour, fast-paced action,
(21:04):
humour, books set in variousscenarios.
So I write urban fantasy.
You can see just behind my headthat's Anastasia with the sword
in her hand and the magicspilling off the other one, um,
that, uh, that that's that's.
I mean, that's pure urbanfantasy stuff, um, but again,
it's fast action and there's alot of comedy thrown in which I
didn't realize at the time thatI started writing it.
(21:25):
But this comes down to brand andauthors.
Authors should try andunderstand what their brand is
and my stuff is very much allthe same.
There's no, there's no badlanguage in my books.
There's no sex in my books.
There's no.
There's no um visceral violence.
We don't.
We don't do exploding brainslike karen sorter would um.
So so hopefully that answeredthat question.
(21:48):
I have a habit of going off ona tangent no, that was great.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
That was great.
I actually wanted to ask thatquestion.
Um, I I don't want to put youon the spot with this question,
but like, clearly, someone withyour background and you're
hilarious, right, like so, how,how, how do you manage the humor
?
And I know that as someone whoalso writes humor, it would be a
tough question for me to answer.
(22:12):
But like, where does the humorcome from and how do you get the
most out of that funny scene?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I don't.
I genuinely don't know.
I couldn't teach it.
I don't.
I just, you know, I I've.
I've gone through life laughingmost of the way because things
around me entertain me immensely.
I watch television because it'sfull of idiots that entertain
me constantly.
People ask me about that thingI was talking about in 2019,
(22:43):
where all I'm doing is writing,writing, writing, writing.
And I'll say what was your wifedoing at the time?
She's like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I hired someone to sleep with her?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, his name's Kevin.
We go golfing at the weekends,um, but it's that.
It's that.
You know for what.
It comes naturally to me, forwhatever reason.
Um, I try to beself-deprecating the.
The cue just spills over intothe, into the books.
I, I, I.
Whatever's wrong with my brainallows me to write stuff in a
humorous manner, so I can take avery serious subject and,
(23:19):
without insulting anyone oroffending anyone, I can make it
funny, make their situationsfunny, make the fact that
someone's just been shot deadfunny.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Don't ask me how, because I couldn't possibly
teach it yeah, yeah, I get thatquestion all the time as well,
and it's, it's.
It's a really hard thing to putyour finger on how to be funny,
and my general answer is you'reprobably not as funny as you
think you are, and so therefore,like, don't, if you try to be
(23:52):
funny.
That's almost a recipe to fail.
And uh, yeah, that's a yeah,great answer.
So, okay.
So then, let's, in terms ofyour character development, I
know I've looked at a bunch ofyour books I haven't read them
all because I just don't haveenough time but, um, that's a
female, yeah, yeah, uh, but Iwanted to ask, right, so, like
you've obviously worked inpractical, hands-on jobs and now
(24:15):
the creative pursuit is kind ofthe opposite, and how does that
feed into character development?
Not necessarily characterchoice, but character growth,
right?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I'm sorry.
What specifically are youasking there?
How does what I've done in thepast come through in my
characters?
Yeah, a lot of my charactersare based on people I've met,
and you meet a lot of people inthe army, and then I was in the
corporate world for quite a fewyears, and so they're kind of
(24:52):
based on that.
And one one thing readerscomment on almost constantly is
how believable my characters are.
But so so, and it's thatunderstanding that everyone's
motivated by something whenthey're doing something, that
they're doing it for a reason,whether that's for themselves or
whether it's altruistic the badguy doesn't realize he's the
bad guy.
The murderer is generally not.
(25:14):
You know, they, they, theydon't wear a cloak and they
don't laugh maniacally whilethey're sharpening their knives.
Um, they, they are killingsomeone because it needs to
happen generally.
Uh, that that's so, it's.
It's what is motivating thatperson to try to understand
what's going on inside theirheads and giving them real-world
examples.
(25:34):
When I wrote Paranormal Nonsense, when I wrote that first series
of blooming books which I'mstill writing seven years more
than seven years on, I'm stillproducing new titles for that
series wanted to give, I wantedto give the, the characters,
some some realism and I I kindof based him on myself or an
(25:55):
alternate reality version ofmyself who left the army in his
30s, um, and I give him a coupleof accents because it gives him
sort of this real lifegrounding.
I gave him a mother who's apain in the backside and things
like that, just because mostpeople can relate to that, and I
write my characters thinkingwhat is it about this person
that's going to be relatable tothe, the audience, because
(26:17):
everyone knows somebody likethat if you base it on a real
person yeah, yeah, lee childsaid that.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Uh, in some interview I watched where he was like the
appeal of jack reacher is thateveryone wants to have the
opportunity to get on a bus andjust go.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And to punch people to death and just walk away with
no consequences.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
That's very true.
That's very true.
Wow, okay.
So then I guess okay.
So I guess this is kind of atwo part question.
But what keeps you motivatednow with the level of success
you have right Like cause,obviously you could slow down
and then, well, let's startthere.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Yeah, okay.
Well, I have slowed down, I'llprobably only it's probably only
going to be about 15 books thisyear.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
That's falling down, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Only only right.
When I quit work in 2019, itwas actually my son's fourth
birthday.
I quit on my son's fourthbirthday.
He was one of the bigmotivators because I was just
never here.
I never saw him when I wasn'twriting.
I was not even in the countrymost of the time.
So, anyway, when I quit, I setmyself the challenge of writing
(27:40):
30 books in 12 months, based onyou know it was an arbitrary
number.
It was, I know the speed atwhich I write.
I think the route to successhere is just having more product
, more series, more books.
To success here is just havingmore product, more series, more
books.
Um, will will get me where Ineed to be income wise and um,
uh, I never, I never expected tomake the kind of money that I,
that I have made.
Uh, there was never in my head,but I, I didn't reach 30 books.
(28:03):
I've got to 29 uh in in 12months, uh, and one of them was
like you know, yeah, but I haveslowed down, I am taking it
easier.
I'm not as driven as I am, I'mnot as hungry as I am, but
ultimately, I love writing.
I wake up every morning,especially when I'm in the
(28:23):
middle of the story and I'm so,so keen to find out what happens
next, because I don't know.
It's very much the train layingthe track in front of it as it
goes along and I've got a vagueidea where the story's going.
But uh, it's very characterdriven the the stuff I write.
I I write murder mystery and Idon't know who the killer is.
I tend to figure that out as Igo along.
(28:44):
So I I'm very, I'm verymotivated, just just on a
personal level, because I lovethe writing.
I want to write the next book,I want to explore where the
characters are going, and it'sfun, it's real good fun because
I'm writing comedy, possibly,but it's a lot of fun to do.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, no, it's.
You know, that's what I tell mystudents is like.
This is like if you want tomake money, go rob a bank, right
, like this is it's going to belong hours, it's going to be
painful, you're going to want tothrow your computer out of it,
so you better love it.
Yeah, you gotta love the story,you gotta love the process.
(29:23):
You know, and you know, we allhave partners who we love and,
at the same time, occasionallywant to murder.
Right, like that's just therelationship of true love.
Right, like there's good andthere's bad, right, and
everything.
Right.
So, yeah, by the way, if mywife ever is murdered, it was
not me and I do not want to be acharacter in your book.
(29:44):
Steve, just saying that, okay,just putting that, okay, all
right, no shit, no shit, allright, no, I'm kidding, no, I'm
kidding, okay, okay.
So my second question, or thesecond part to this question, is
and I suspect I know the answerwhat was your routine in 2000,
you know, late 2019?
And what is your routine today?
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Okay, they're not much different.
I get up every morning, uh, andI and I and I write until some
point, um, around dinner time,when it's time to stop, and and,
uh, and and be with my family,um, both my children now at
school, um, the, the.
The big driver wasn't, wasn'tmoney, I mean, it was the desire
(30:29):
to escape the corporate lifeand to be my own boss and to um,
uh and to and to manage my ownlife, uh, I needed to earn
enough money to make that work.
But the big driver was, um, was, was lifestyle.
I wanted to be at home for mykids.
I wanted to be able to drop mykid off at school, um, and pick
him up from school and be thereto do things with him, and that
(30:51):
that wasn't the lifestyle that Ihad, having left the army and
gone into corporate life.
So that was, that was the bigdriver and that's still very
much there.
So so you know, sometimes,sometimes I'm up early, I don't
get up at five o'clock anymore.
That that's, that's a change,because that was, that was, that
was pretty much almost.
There was probably five,fiveplus days a week, most of
(31:11):
the time back when I was firsttrying to make it as a full-time
author.
I'm more relaxed about it allnow, I think, because you know
the books sell.
There's a lot of them, there'smore coming out, I've got a
solid fan base.
I don't need to write the nextbook.
I think is the't.
I don't need to write the nextbook, I think is the point, but
(31:33):
I want to write the next book.
So I'm.
I'm there five days a week, um,and sometimes a little bit of
stuff on the weekends, um, if Idon't have other things I need
to do, um, writing and marketingand liaising with all of us and
doing you know this being partof that community, because it's
(31:53):
very insulated.
I go days without seeing peopleother than on the school run,
which isn't really socialcommunication of any kind, so
it's very insulated.
So it's nice to have the authorcommunity there to reach out to
(32:13):
and have an occasional chatwith someone about what they're
doing.
We make friends with otherauthors as we go along and I've
got an extensive number of themI can reach out to.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah, it's true.
I find I've gone so deep downthis rabbit hole that the only
people who really understand meare other authors.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Oh yeah.
Well, you can't go to the puband talk about this stuff.
You can't talk numbers, becausethat would just be vulgar, but
you can't.
You can't talk about stuff.
You can't explain that.
I've just finished a book andI'm completely emotionally
drained and everything I want todo is lay in the corner and
drink neat spirits or whateverthat that scape is.
I and surprised me how, justhow draining some of the books
(32:52):
could be.
And you get to the end of aseries where you've written.
You've written 10 books and thefirst time I experienced this
was with cozy mystery and Iwrote, I wrote a 10 book series
and it was the the, the last fewchapters where I serve the
thing up and deliver everythingthat I know the reader wants.
And it left me, you know, 25years in the military left.
(33:17):
I'm sat there writing cozymystery with tears streaming
down my cheeks because it's sojoyous.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I'm utterly, utterly, emotionally drained.
That's why I stopped writing incoffee showers right because
you're sobbing yeah, yeah.
There was one time where I waslike writing a scene where the
the character lost her fatherand I was crying so hard that
these two girls on another tablesent me a piece of cake because
they thought I was writing abreakup letter.
(33:40):
That's incredible.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
That's a wonderful, wonderful anecdote.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
I love that.
I think that's probably lots ofauthors have something,
something similar from that.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
But yeah that, yeah, that's, that's great that's also
a good hook for an email tomarket that book rami.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Uh the uh sobbing in coffee shops, uh that's probably
the best meet cute I've everheard.
I might have to use that nowsomewhere.
The names will be changed topredict the.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I said I don't want to be a character in your book
hey, rami, I want to ask a quickquestion.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I want to.
I want to be respectful ofsteve's time here.
Maybe pass it to you for afinal question before you wrap.
So you said uh.
You said steve, uh, you knowgoing to the pub talking and
talking about what you're doing,or heaven forbid.
You talk numbers and it justbecomes vulgar because let's
just be real and I think you'rea humble guy, you're killing it.
I mean incredible.
(34:44):
I mean seven figure fictionauthor, and when I just scroll
on, I'll screen share for peoplewho are watching this on
youtube.
I mean, when I scroll amazon,it is just series after 5 000
reviews, 2 000 reviews, 3 100reviews, 7 200 reviews on this.
I mean it is just series afterseries, book after book.
I don't even know how many tensof thousands of reviews and I
(35:07):
can only imagine how many copiessold.
It's pretty incredible.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
I'm coming up on a billion pages read.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
A billion pages read.
That's incredible.
So I guess my kind of partingquestion would be knowing what
you know now, what would you sayback to the person who's
listened to this, who maybethey're three books in, or maybe
they're just listening to thiswith a dream, saying I can't
even imagine publishing thisfirst book.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Like, what advice would you give them?
Uh, to accept the grind.
It's, it's, it's very hard atthat.
At that starting point I I'velikened it in the past to
pushing a boulder up a hill withyour face, because there's so
many unknowns, there's so muchyou need to figure out, there's
so much unknowns, there's somuch you need to figure out,
there's so much doubt, there'sno support network.
You're you're trying to climbup.
(35:57):
You're trying to climb amountain because at the mountain
is all this wonderful, fresh,pure air and and money rains
from the sky.
But getting there it's reallydifficult and you've got to
accept that grind becausethere's all this work that pays
off before you get there.
If you speak to almost any ofthe successful authors in the
community, go to the conferences.
(36:19):
This is my advice Go to theconferences and speak to the
authors out there who are makingit, who are doing well, who are
doing good.
Six figures or seven figures,and you know, maybe the
seven-figure aiming point is toohigh.
I don't think anybody that ismaking seven figures.
And you know, maybe the sevenfigure aim aiming point is too
high.
I don't think.
I don't think anybody that thatis making seven figures aimed
for it.
That's just.
That's just a byproduct of ofdoing those stages and being
(36:41):
successful and keeping at it.
The the the route to success isnot an easy one, um, and there
will be disappointments alongthe way.
You've got to expect to get abloody nose every now and then.
You can't get through lifewithout it.
So you know, expect a fewbrazes and scrapes, expect one
star reviews, um, the successfulauthors all go through this
(37:05):
period where that nothing muchis happening, they're not making
any money, they're grindingaway.
I've listened to author panelswhere there'll be five or six,
seven figure authors on thereand everyone will say, no, there
were 10 books in, there were 12books in, there were 15 books
in before they saw any realmoney.
That was exactly my story.
I had 15 books out before I,before I first made over a
(37:26):
thousand, over a thousand poundsof profit in a month, um, and
you know that that was.
That was.
That was two, two and a bityears into my career, when, when
, suddenly things started toswing and tell upwards.
So it's, and it's different foreveryone.
Some people are almostovernight successes, but
actually the overnight successis not something to look for,
(37:47):
because most of those overnightsuccesses don't last.
They, they flame hard and thenthey burn out.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
The longer it takes to build it, the longer it lasts
right.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Yeah, but I think that's true and it's a lifelong
commitment.
You've got to be completely init if you want that success.
You've got to build a very,very strong foundation and
you've got to write good booksand you've got to figure out
what you don't know, which goesback to what Rami said about me
(38:17):
in edinburgh you've got tofigure out what you don't know
and then go and close thoseholes.
Learn to feed yourself.
It's the marketing thing, um,the old statement about teach a
man to fish.
So a marketer would say if Iteach a man to fish, he'll have
no further use for me.
It's that simple.
You need to learn marketing asmuch as as much as writing books
(38:40):
.
If you can market them, that'swhere the money is.
That's where you're fishing.
Writing that you've got towrite a good book, yes, but if
you can't market it, you'renever going to sell the damn
thing.
So you've got to learn allthose other bits and pieces, but
you.
The good news is there's lotsand lots of online advice out
there.
There's youtube channels likethis one, um, there's places
(39:01):
where you can go to find thisknowledge.
There's books that you can buyfrom amazon.
You can find time.
You know, I, I used to.
I used to write all day andthen and then collapse into the
bath at night and watch ayoutube tutorial on something,
because there was all thisknowledge that I needed to gain.
So that's that's my.
That's my thoughts on thatsubject, except how, how hard
(39:24):
it's going to be you're notgoing to be an overrun success.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Do not be put off when your first five books don't
make any money and and I wantedto just echo something you were
saying a little earlier, like Iactually I and I'm sure you do
too, without mentioning names,but I do know a few authors who
had that like overnight successand then never found it again.
(39:47):
But they had that series orthat one book that, just like
you know, six figure a year, butthat was kind of like a glitch.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
And then the rest was yeah, yeah, they never
recapture it yeah, yeah, yeah,most of my this is a very
important fact, uh, veryimportant um statistic.
Most 90 plus percent of mymonthly income, regardless of
whether I launch a book or not,is backlist paranormal nonsense.
When I first launched, it got aone-star review on amazoncom
(40:19):
and died, andi didn't sell anycopies for quite a while.
In 2022, it was the number onevampire thriller on amazoncom.
For almost the entire year theydidn't't change anything.
It was just about marketing.
Don't worry about your book notselling to start with, you'll
(40:39):
get there.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Incredible.
Do you have a final questionfor your app, Rami?
Speaker 2 (40:44):
I really don't except thank you.
If I do wind up in your book, Ineed to die gloriously.
That's it, I'm thinking rightto death in.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
I need to die gloriously.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Well, I'm thinking right to death in public by a
donkey.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
at this point there's got to be a glorious one, or
spanked by midgets covered inthousand-mile dressing.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
As long as it was heroic.
What an incredible way to endit.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
There's some things you can't unsee and that will be
, one of them that.
I will probably be seeing as Iput my head on my pillow tonight
.
This was awesome, incredibleinterview.
Thank you so much, steve.
I want to just give a plug here, guys Steve Higgs check out his
books on Amazon.
He's got a ton of them.
(41:37):
You've probably heard of them.
They're doing just really well.
Bunch of great books.
Actually, I'll ask you this aswe close, steve Is there one
that you would recommend peoplebuy first?
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Like, if I've never read any of your books, what's
the first one you'd say that'svery difficult because it
depends what your taste is Ifyou want to read something you
know.
No, I would tell them to go andread Old Habits, all right.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Old Habits.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
That is a hard-boiled mystery thriller where an older
retired gentleman and his doghe's got a nose for trouble and
he wanders into a town hiding adeadly secret and things spiral
downwards from there.
I tell you what he's like JackReacher at 80 with a dog.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I love it.
Well, guys, check out oldhabits.
Big thank you to Steve.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
We've got more fiction episodescoming up in the month of
November as part of NaNoWriMo,so stay tuned.
We've got episodes, like Imentioned, on editing coming up
fiction cover design, fictionediting.
We're going to be murderboarding some books which, if
(42:47):
you don't know what that is,show up to the upcoming episode.
And if you want to find outmore about our fiction programs,
go to selfpublishingcom.
Forward slash fiction.
Steve, you're the man.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
Thank you, guys, you take care.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
See you guys.
Hey, chandler Bolt here and joining me today.
We've got two very specialguests.
This is a very unique episodeof the Self-Publishing School
podcast.
We're doing a fiction takeover.
So in the month of Novemberwe're doing a NaNoWriMo fiction
takeover of the podcast.
We've got a lot of great gueststhat are going to be coming and
talking fiction people who havedone it, who have become six
(00:27):
and seven figure fiction authors, teaching the process.
So we're going to be talkingabout fiction editing.
We're going to be talking aboutcover design, fiction cover
design.
We'll have a fiction roundtable with a lot of our authors
from our Fundamentals of Fictionand Full-Time Fiction program.
A lot of things to come.
But today we're talking to SteveHiggs, so I'm going to pass the
mic here to Rami here in just asecond.
(00:49):
If you're on the YouTubechannel you can see both of them
.
But we've got Rami, aka AriVance, in the house.
He runs the fiction program atSelf-Publishing School, has
published I can't even keep up40, 50, 60 fiction books I don't
(01:09):
even know how many at thispoint.
I think 80,000 copies sold justlast year and has coached
hundreds, if not thousands, ofour fiction authors on their
publishing journey here atselfpublishingcom.
So we're in great company.
I'm gonna be the dumbnonfiction guy today and be a
fly on the wall, maybe asking,maybe, if you guys get too
advanced, I'm gonna ask some ofthe basic questions our
listeners want to hear, but I'llpass it to you, rami, to give
(01:30):
an intro of Steve and then wecan dive in.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
All right.
Well, I'm really happy to haveSteve here today.
I met Steve like what?
Six years ago now, I guess itwould have been and five and a
bit, five and a bit, yeah.
And I, uh, five and a bit, fiveand a bit, yeah.
And I will say that, like theday I met you, steve, I was like
, if this guy doesn't becomefull-time, like no one will
right.
Like you went into thatconference and you literally
(01:55):
asked every single person a tonof questions, um, me included,
and it was just, it was a lot offun watching me work that room.
I gotta be honest, um and um.
So I have an interesting bio.
Now I'll say that some of thestuff on this bio I didn't even
know.
So uh, steve is a formerbritish uh, army captain term
(02:17):
best-selling mystery andthriller author.
I I'm not.
I take no credit for this bio.
By the way, this was was theself-publishing school's social
media team.
He started his career as a carmechanic before joining the
military.
He won his first creativewriting prize at the age of 10.
And his debut novel, paranormalNonsense, was written while
(02:38):
still serving in the army.
I did not know that.
I thought you had left.
Currently living in southeastEngland, picturesque countryside
, with two sausage dogs I alsodidn't know that about your dogs
and claims to have ideas forover 100 books waiting to be
written.
He's a self-described humorist.
Oh, there we go, perfect.
(02:59):
He's a self-described humoristwho folks wanted.
His was a mechanic, past amilitary service and now he's a
full-time author enjoying localbeer, castles and vineyard views
.
So welcome Steve.
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Thank you.
Thank you very much forinviting me on the show.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So first question is what inspired you to make these
major career shifts, especiallythe leap into becoming an author
, after you know your colorfulpast um?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I you know I I think I was always a writer right.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I think if I'd had different parents I probably
would have, uh, never joined themilitary.
But I came from a, along-standing military family,
um, and multiple generationsahead of me, uh, had had gone
that route, and I was the fourthor fifth children, and the
elder three were already in themilitary, and so I think it was
preordained pretty much before Iwas born that that's where I
(03:55):
was going.
But that sort of love of thewritten word stayed with me and
I wrote columns for militarynewspapers and did stuff like
that while I was in the army, um, but I was one of those people
who kept saying I'm going towrite a book, I'm going to write
a book and I had, I had allthese ideas in my head and
swirling around and never reallyfound time for them because I
(04:15):
was doing other things andstudying, um, uh, you know,
opening university courses andstuff like that, getting ready
for the inevitable transitionfrom the literally to civilian
life.
And just in the end I got boredsaying the same thing but bored
listening to myself, and justdecided to shut up and do it,
which is advice I give to a lotof people is, um, and there's no
(04:38):
, there's no better, there's nobetter way of getting things
done than to actually start them.
And so I was in the twilight ofmy military career, as you've
already highlighted, when Istarted writing Paranormal
Nonsense, the first book Ipublished.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah, so I actually have a question about Paranormal
Nonsense.
But I want to ask you anotherquestion which I realized
despite knowing you for so manyyears, and I don't know how many
conversations we have had overthe years.
What did your military familythink when you first published a
book and then?
How did that tune change whenyou made it a proper career?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
uh, I think, actually I think this is this is this is
fairly typical for a lot ofauthors, especially the indie
ones.
There's a complete lack ofsupport from family members,
including loved ones, because,you're putting, it's a lot of
time and effort.
It's no small thing to write abook of any length.
(05:40):
So there was a complete lack ofsupport from everybody,
ridicule, certainly, at times,questioning why I was wasting my
time with such a foolishendeavour, even after I
published it, and I probablypublished five or six books
before anyone sort of startedpaying attention because
suddenly there was money comingthrough the door and it was only
(06:04):
really at that point that, uh,that the the tune started to
change.
So I, I, I from from myexperience talking to other
authors that that's not unusual.
There's a very distinct lack ofsupport for this wild,
ridiculous dream that they'vegot about being being a writer.
Um, and my, my story was nodifferent.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean myself included.
My wife's super supportive,super loving, always helped me.
But it was the day that Ishowed her how much money I was
making and she looked at it andsaid, is that how much you made
this year?
And I said, no, that's how muchI made this month and then
that's when it changed.
I mean, she's always beensupportive.
I don't want to say that, butyes, okay, so you wrote
(06:47):
paranormal nonsense while youwere serving as a captain.
How did you balance militaryduties with creative writing?
I didn't bother doing any work.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
See the funny thing about the Army and a lot of
people don't realize this is,while you're not away, on ops
there isn't actually a lot to do?
You're not trying to satisfyany customers.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
The customers from a military perspective are the
people you're shooting.
So, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, I'm in the twilight of myarmy career.
I didn't, I didn't, I meangoing to the gym for three hours
.
That's a legitimate armyactivity.
So I would balance things likethat with actually I'm going to
(07:28):
do this.
I was married, but living andworking, so my wife was in Kent
and I'm in Hampshire and there'sa good sort of two-hour drive
between the two, so I wouldn'tbother coming home every night.
It's just too far to come.
So I would be in essentially abedroom with an armchair and a
(07:53):
table and I would sit rightthere.
But I didn't finish the bookwhile I was in the military.
I couldn't get it done, so Itransitioned out and got put
down for quite some time.
It actually took me five yearsto finish that first book and
get it published.
Which, um, you?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
know, and again, I don't think that's unusual.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I I speak to a lot of people who who deliberate for
years over that, over that firstbook, um, actually trying to
figure out how to finish it,learning the process, I think,
as much as anything yeah, I know, absolutely totally echoed my
story as well.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
First book, 14 years.
Second book, nine months.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, you know, yeah, very similar.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I hear that a lot hey , let me ask a follow-up here,
rami.
I'd be curious, steve.
Two-part question one whatwould be your advice for people
who don't have a job where theycan do nothing, but they have a
job where they're like, hey, I'mlucky to squeeze in 30 minutes
an hour a day or whatever?
What would be your advice forthose folks?
And then, if you were to goback and maybe we go around the
(08:48):
horn on this too for you, rami,is, how would you shortcut that
five-year first book and getthat book done in a shorter time
period?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
One of the biggest obstacles that people have to
overcome, in my experience, isconfidence Confidence that what
you're doing is going to beworth it at the end.
Um, which is a very difficultthing because you've got nothing
to base it on.
You've got nobody in your team,no one's supporting you and
saying, no, actually, yeah, Ithink you can do this, um, so
you, you've.
You've got that.
You're lacking that.
I think most people are lackingthat, and certainly I was, so
(09:21):
the.
The advice I I I give to peopleI get invited to go to
conferences and talk on thissubject of productivity is to is
to carve out time in your life,and I tell people to stop
sleeping on a regular basis.
That that's my advice.
Get up at five o'clock in themorning.
I use myself as an example.
(09:42):
So you know, prior to, prior toquitting my job, prior actually
to the point when Rami met me,um, in the, in the almost 12
months leading up to, uh, julyof 2019, those glorious days in
Edinburgh where, uh, where Ramiand I first met, um, I, uh, I
would, I would go to bed, um,having having written for
(10:02):
several hours.
So you know, I'm married, I'vegot a child, um, my child would
go to bed.
My wife would go to bed.
I would then stay up forseveral hours.
So you know, I'm married, I'vegot a child.
My child would go to bed.
My wife would go to bed.
I would then stay up forseveral hours writing, crawl
into bed after midnight, get upat five o'clock and write again.
I would then cycle 10 miles towork, work, my morning take my
(10:23):
lunch break and go outside andwrite for another hour and you
know an hour is 500 words orit's 1,000 words, depending on
how it's like and then I wouldwrite again of an evening and I
would continue with that processpretty much to the point of
collapse, and then find somesleep and then start again.
I managed to crank out 17 booksin nine months while in
full-time employment as directorof an engineering company,
doing about 70 hours' work aweek.
(10:44):
Yeah, that's full-timeemployment as director of an
engineering company doing about70 hours work a week.
Yeah, that, that, that'sfull-time commitment.
Now, that's a pretty extremeversion and I don't I'm not
encouraging anyone to go downthat route.
Point is you've got to find timein your life and you need it to
be regular.
I think if you, if you, if youwrite 500 words and don't look
at that manuscript again for sixmonths, it's, it's going to be
impossible to pick up you leftoff.
If you're writing every day oron a regular basis, so two or
(11:08):
three times a week, it's so mucheasier to keep your head in the
story and keep it movingforward.
You've got to believe in theend product and believe that the
story you've got in your headthrough just through the, just
through effort, will find itsway onto the page, you'll get to
(11:28):
the end.
So if you're going to write an80 000 word book and you and you
don't have anything to do, uh,that's going to take up your
time, let's say you're onholiday.
Let's say you've got time offfrom work.
Most people can write athousand words in an hour, so an
80 000 word book is 80 hours.
If you get up on monday morningand start writing by thursday,
the book's finished.
Yeah, again, that's a prettyextreme version, but it really
(11:52):
is.
It's that simple.
It's divisible by hours.
You need 80 hours to write thatbook or something like that, or
60 hours if it's a shorter book, or 40 hours or whatever it is.
You've just got to find thosehours.
So how quickly can you findthem?
Make a Thursday night date withyourself in a back bedroom and
all you do is write.
Don't take your phone with you,don't connect to the internet.
(12:14):
Have no distractions.
Have that thing right in yourlunch breaks, right in the
morning.
Get up on a Sunday and writeuntil it's time to go to church
or whatever your habits are.
Find that time.
So that's my how people shouldtackle that, because most people
trying to get into this willhave something that takes up the
(12:39):
majority of their time.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Did that help?
I would like to to.
Not about me, but like so, whenI was in early in the early
days of writing, so, like I hadthree books, I was making a
little bit of money and, um, Isomehow weaseled my way.
This is that, uh, in vegas, bythe way, steve, which I know,
you and I've been to, so Iweaseled my way into a dinner
(13:07):
for seven, like basicallyeveryone.
There was high six figures ofthose seven figures, like they
were all there, and I noticedthat, with the exception of two
people, all there were 10 people.
Well, there were more than 10people, but I was kind of taking
note of, like, the 10 topperformers.
All eight out of the 10 eitherhad a military background or
(13:31):
were a high performer in martialart or what do you call it.
Had a very good technicalbackground, like the ability to
read large swaths of data.
Right, like those were thethree qualities that eight out
of 10 people had.
And so discipline right, it'sthat it's just the ability to
(13:55):
override your willpower.
So I didn't have thatdiscipline.
I'm overweight.
If I get into a fight, pushcomes to shove.
I'm in the fetal position,right, like it's like I'm
overweight.
If I get into a fight.
Push comes to shove.
I'm in the fetal position,right Like it's like I'm not
that guy.
But when I saw that I was like,how do I become that guy?
And my way was my wife waspregnant and I just went all
(14:18):
right, I'm going to die and Iwant my kids to be proud of me.
How do I do that?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And that, just that, just that just yeah, you're
talking about that motivatingfactor and and people, if they
want to write, it's very, veryeasy to procrastinate, it's very
easy to put it off because youdon't know how to move forward.
Move forward anyway, yeah, andfigure it out as you go yeah, no
, absolutely, and that's what I.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Honestly, that was the one quality that really
stood out that first time we metis that he has the confidence.
He just doesn't have theknowledge right.
That's why you were justhitting everyone.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
No, you're not.
No, I get that.
Yeah, it's.
The confidence is the thingthat comes with the kind of
background I've got.
But other people you know youdon't need to be military or you
don't need to be military tohave that level of discipline or
that level of confidence.
You can go out there and decidethat you're going to do it.
There's plenty of people inother walks of life that are
very successful.
You take a cross-section of theauthor, the successful author
(15:21):
community, and there's peoplethere from all walks of life.
So people out there listeningto this shouldn't think that
they're going to strugglebecause they're not military and
they don't have that backgrounddiscipline.
They can.
They can teach themselves that.
Um, they, they, if they want,if and his, if you, if they want
to be an author, they'll find away.
(15:43):
If they don't find a way, thenthey don't really want it.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Right, but don't sell yourself short, steve, because
after this podcast lands.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
What do you call it?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Recruitment in all militaries is going to go
skyrocketing.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I'm not here trying to sell the military.
No, stay at home and write.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
All right.
So my next question is how doyou manage your creative
overflow?
Because I get this question alot with my students.
So a lot of my students havefinished several books or a full
series at this point and thenthey're like, well, what do I
write next?
I want to be a little bit morethoughtful as to what's going to
work.
So how do you decide what towrite next?
And I might ask a secondquestion is how did you decide
(16:32):
to move from urban fantasy tocozy?
Speaker 3 (16:36):
right like.
I'll circle back to that whenyou might need to remind me the.
The answer on how I decidewhat's right next is generally
whimsy.
Okay, um, because I have somany ideas and just above my
laptop screen, as I'm looking atyour, your faces, is a
whiteboard littered, litteredwith ideas, um, that that I, you
know, and there's a chunk ofthem I'll never get to, but I, I
think, I think I'm right insaying that I'm currently
(16:58):
writing eight different series,right, um, flitting from one
book to the next, to the next,to the next, um, four or five of
them are completely intertwined.
So, um, I'm writing a seriesabout a wedding planner, who,
who keeps finding his own.
This is cozy mystery.
So I mean, this is, this ismainstream cozy mystery stuff.
(17:18):
She's a wedding planner, she'sgot a cat and a dog whose voices
she can hear and she, uh, she'scompletely clueless when it
comes to solving crimes and shekeeps, um, she's a high-end
wedding planner for celebritiesand rich and that sort of thing.
And she in the final book inthe series is, uh, is managing.
She's been, she's been hired tomanage the fictitious, the
(17:39):
royal wedding of the fictitiousking's third son, um, and that's
going to go completely sideways.
Um, but I'm bringing in three,three other series into that
story that I'm writing andintertwining that because you
know I find a reader and theywind up reading 100 plus books
because they can't escape inthree other series into that
story that I'm writing andintertwining that Because I find
a reader and they wind upreading a hundred plus books
because they can't escape them,because all the stories are
intertwined.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
So what do I write next?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Whatever I can't resist generally, or that I've
got a deadline fast approachingfor sometimes, so I'm writing
the book I'm writing now becauseit leads into the book that I'm
writing after that, which is acompletely separate series.
But I have to write this onefirst, and the one that I'm
writing next has got a deadlinein January, so I've got to get
on with it before I feel thatfire underneath my toes too much
(18:26):
.
Back in January, I took my sonto uh, the natural history
museum.
We stayed, we stayed overnight,which is the thing you can do
and, uh, I had him my, myeight-year-old at the time
running around in the uh thedinosaur exhibition with his
flashlight, having time of hislife, um, and while we were
(18:46):
there, he came up with a, astory which about eight weeks
later was a book.
Right, and it's that.
You know he, he was beingcreative and whimsy.
I went with, the wind blew me,he wanted to write a book, and
so now we've got a trilogy ofdinosaur stories.
How, how did I wind up goingfrom urban fantasy to cozy
(19:09):
mystery is I'm stupid.
Um and I don't know what I'mdoing, and and everyone laughs
when I say that because like no,steve, you make huge amounts of
money and, um, and your booksare all bestsellers, like, no, I
don't, I don't have thefaintest clue what I'm doing.
Uh, I wrote, I wrote, um, thecoziness became about.
So I was still, I was stillemployed, um, and uh, the lovely
(19:31):
receptionist, uh, as I'm, asI'm going out, I think I'm off
to a meeting or something butshe, uh, she, she wanted to ask
me how I come up with mycharacters, because she was
reading one of my books I guessit was known that I was
publishing at the time uh, andshe asked me about how I come up
with them.
And so, just to show off asmuch as anything else, I stood
in the doorway and devised acharacter, put her into a
(19:53):
situation, gave her a name, gaveher um, I gave her like a
compounding factor that wasgoing to force her into into a
specific uh route in her life,and and came up with a story and
that then skewed in my head forsix months and I hadn't, I
hadn't intended to, but I, Ijust went.
No, I'm gonna have to writethis because it's interesting to
(20:15):
me and I I'd never heard theterm cozy mystery.
I didn't know what it was untilafter I published that book,
which was?
It was, um, it was kind ofintended to be murder.
She wrote style agatha christiekind of mystery stuff, but then
was described by everyone apartfrom the fact that it's cozy
mysteries generally beingdescribed as diehard, with
(20:37):
Angela Lansbury in the lead roleand there's an awful lot of
people getting shot and gettingchased and she's running away
with a Dachshund under one armand a gin and tonic in the other
.
She's trying to slurp one orspilling, yeah, so.
So my book are I don't want tosay my books are all the same,
because they're not all the same, but they're all kind of the
same flavour.
They're very fast-paced action,humour, fast-paced action,
(21:04):
humour, books set in variousscenarios.
So I write urban fantasy.
You can see just behind my headthat's Anastasia with the sword
in her hand and the magicspilling off the other one, um,
that, uh, that that's that's.
I mean, that's pure urbanfantasy stuff, um, but again,
it's fast action and there's alot of comedy thrown in which I
didn't realize at the time thatI started writing it.
(21:25):
But this comes down to brand andauthors.
Authors should try andunderstand what their brand is
and my stuff is very much allthe same.
There's no, there's no badlanguage in my books.
There's no sex in my books.
There's no.
There's no um visceral violence.
We don't.
We don't do exploding brainslike karen sorter would um.
So so hopefully that answeredthat question.
(21:48):
I have a habit of going off ona tangent no, that was great.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
That was great.
I actually wanted to ask thatquestion.
Um, I I don't want to put youon the spot with this question,
but like, clearly, someone withyour background and you're
hilarious, right, like so, how,how, how do you manage the humor
?
And I know that as someone whoalso writes humor, it would be a
tough question for me to answer.
(22:12):
But like, where does the humorcome from and how do you get the
most out of that funny scene?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I don't.
I genuinely don't know.
I couldn't teach it.
I don't.
I just, you know, I I've.
I've gone through life laughingmost of the way because things
around me entertain me immensely.
I watch television because it'sfull of idiots that entertain
me constantly.
People ask me about that thingI was talking about in 2019,
(22:43):
where all I'm doing is writing,writing, writing, writing.
And I'll say what was your wifedoing at the time?
She's like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
I hired someone to sleep with her?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, his name's Kevin.
We go golfing at the weekends,um, but it's that.
It's that.
You know for what.
It comes naturally to me, forwhatever reason.
Um, I try to beself-deprecating the.
The cue just spills over intothe, into the books.
I, I, I.
Whatever's wrong with my brainallows me to write stuff in a
humorous manner, so I can take avery serious subject and,
(23:19):
without insulting anyone oroffending anyone, I can make it
funny, make their situationsfunny, make the fact that
someone's just been shot deadfunny.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Don't ask me how, because I couldn't possibly
teach it yeah, yeah, I get thatquestion all the time as well,
and it's, it's.
It's a really hard thing to putyour finger on how to be funny,
and my general answer is you'reprobably not as funny as you
think you are, and so therefore,like, don't, if you try to be
(23:52):
funny.
That's almost a recipe to fail.
And uh, yeah, that's a yeah,great answer.
So, okay.
So then, let's, in terms ofyour character development, I
know I've looked at a bunch ofyour books I haven't read them
all because I just don't haveenough time but, um, that's a
female, yeah, yeah, uh, but Iwanted to ask, right, so, like
you've obviously worked inpractical, hands-on jobs and now
(24:15):
the creative pursuit is kind ofthe opposite, and how does that
feed into character development?
Not necessarily characterchoice, but character growth,
right?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I'm sorry.
What specifically are youasking there?
How does what I've done in thepast come through in my
characters?
Yeah, a lot of my charactersare based on people I've met,
and you meet a lot of people inthe army, and then I was in the
corporate world for quite a fewyears, and so they're kind of
(24:52):
based on that.
And one one thing readerscomment on almost constantly is
how believable my characters are.
But so so, and it's thatunderstanding that everyone's
motivated by something whenthey're doing something, that
they're doing it for a reason,whether that's for themselves or
whether it's altruistic the badguy doesn't realize he's the
bad guy.
The murderer is generally not.
(25:14):
You know, they, they, theydon't wear a cloak and they
don't laugh maniacally whilethey're sharpening their knives.
Um, they, they are killingsomeone because it needs to
happen generally.
Uh, that that's so, it's.
It's what is motivating thatperson to try to understand
what's going on inside theirheads and giving them real-world
examples.
(25:34):
When I wrote Paranormal Nonsense, when I wrote that first series
of blooming books which I'mstill writing seven years more
than seven years on, I'm stillproducing new titles for that
series wanted to give, I wantedto give the, the characters,
some some realism and I I kindof based him on myself or an
(25:55):
alternate reality version ofmyself who left the army in his
30s, um, and I give him a coupleof accents because it gives him
sort of this real lifegrounding.
I gave him a mother who's apain in the backside and things
like that, just because mostpeople can relate to that, and I
write my characters thinkingwhat is it about this person
that's going to be relatable tothe, the audience, because
(26:17):
everyone knows somebody likethat if you base it on a real
person yeah, yeah, lee childsaid that.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Uh, in some interview I watched where he was like the
appeal of jack reacher is thateveryone wants to have the
opportunity to get on a bus andjust go.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And to punch people to death and just walk away with
no consequences.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
That's very true.
That's very true.
Wow, okay.
So then I guess okay.
So I guess this is kind of atwo part question.
But what keeps you motivatednow with the level of success
you have right Like cause,obviously you could slow down
and then, well, let's startthere.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Yeah, okay.
Well, I have slowed down, I'llprobably only it's probably only
going to be about 15 books thisyear.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
That's falling down, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Only only right.
When I quit work in 2019, itwas actually my son's fourth
birthday.
I quit on my son's fourthbirthday.
He was one of the bigmotivators because I was just
never here.
I never saw him when I wasn'twriting.
I was not even in the countrymost of the time.
So, anyway, when I quit, I setmyself the challenge of writing
(27:40):
30 books in 12 months, based onyou know it was an arbitrary
number.
It was, I know the speed atwhich I write.
I think the route to successhere is just having more product
, more series, more books.
To success here is just havingmore product, more series, more
books.
Um, will will get me where Ineed to be income wise and um,
uh, I never, I never expected tomake the kind of money that I,
that I have made.
Uh, there was never in my head,but I, I didn't reach 30 books.
(28:03):
I've got to 29 uh in in 12months, uh, and one of them was
like you know, yeah, but I haveslowed down, I am taking it
easier.
I'm not as driven as I am, I'mnot as hungry as I am, but
ultimately, I love writing.
I wake up every morning,especially when I'm in the
(28:23):
middle of the story and I'm so,so keen to find out what happens
next, because I don't know.
It's very much the train layingthe track in front of it as it
goes along and I've got a vagueidea where the story's going.
But uh, it's very characterdriven the the stuff I write.
I I write murder mystery and Idon't know who the killer is.
I tend to figure that out as Igo along.
(28:44):
So I I'm very, I'm verymotivated, just just on a
personal level, because I lovethe writing.
I want to write the next book,I want to explore where the
characters are going, and it'sfun, it's real good fun because
I'm writing comedy, possibly,but it's a lot of fun to do.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, no, it's.
You know, that's what I tell mystudents is like.
This is like if you want tomake money, go rob a bank, right
, like this is it's going to belong hours, it's going to be
painful, you're going to want tothrow your computer out of it,
so you better love it.
Yeah, you gotta love the story,you gotta love the process.
(29:23):
You know, and you know, we allhave partners who we love and,
at the same time, occasionallywant to murder.
Right, like that's just therelationship of true love.
Right, like there's good andthere's bad, right, and
everything.
Right.
So, yeah, by the way, if mywife ever is murdered, it was
not me and I do not want to be acharacter in your book.
(29:44):
Steve, just saying that, okay,just putting that, okay, all
right, no shit, no shit, allright, no, I'm kidding, no, I'm
kidding, okay, okay.
So my second question, or thesecond part to this question, is
and I suspect I know the answerwhat was your routine in 2000,
you know, late 2019?
And what is your routine today?
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Okay, they're not much different.
I get up every morning, uh, andI and I and I write until some
point, um, around dinner time,when it's time to stop, and and,
uh, and and be with my family,um, both my children now at
school, um, the, the.
The big driver wasn't, wasn'tmoney, I mean, it was the desire
(30:29):
to escape the corporate lifeand to be my own boss and to um,
uh and to and to manage my ownlife, uh, I needed to earn
enough money to make that work.
But the big driver was, um, was, was lifestyle.
I wanted to be at home for mykids.
I wanted to be able to drop mykid off at school, um, and pick
him up from school and be thereto do things with him, and that
(30:51):
that wasn't the lifestyle that Ihad, having left the army and
gone into corporate life.
So that was, that was the bigdriver and that's still very
much there.
So so you know, sometimes,sometimes I'm up early, I don't
get up at five o'clock anymore.
That that's, that's a change,because that was, that was, that
was pretty much almost.
There was probably five,fiveplus days a week, most of
(31:11):
the time back when I was firsttrying to make it as a full-time
author.
I'm more relaxed about it allnow, I think, because you know
the books sell.
There's a lot of them, there'smore coming out, I've got a
solid fan base.
I don't need to write the nextbook.
I think is the't.
I don't need to write the nextbook, I think is the point, but
(31:33):
I want to write the next book.
So I'm.
I'm there five days a week, um,and sometimes a little bit of
stuff on the weekends, um, if Idon't have other things I need
to do, um, writing and marketingand liaising with all of us and
doing you know this being partof that community, because it's
(31:53):
very insulated.
I go days without seeing peopleother than on the school run,
which isn't really socialcommunication of any kind, so
it's very insulated.
So it's nice to have the authorcommunity there to reach out to
(32:13):
and have an occasional chatwith someone about what they're
doing.
We make friends with otherauthors as we go along and I've
got an extensive number of themI can reach out to.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah, it's true.
I find I've gone so deep downthis rabbit hole that the only
people who really understand meare other authors.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Oh yeah.
Well, you can't go to the puband talk about this stuff.
You can't talk numbers, becausethat would just be vulgar, but
you can't.
You can't talk about stuff.
You can't explain that.
I've just finished a book andI'm completely emotionally
drained and everything I want todo is lay in the corner and
drink neat spirits or whateverthat that scape is.
I and surprised me how, justhow draining some of the books
(32:52):
could be.
And you get to the end of aseries where you've written.
You've written 10 books and thefirst time I experienced this
was with cozy mystery and Iwrote, I wrote a 10 book series
and it was the the, the last fewchapters where I serve the
thing up and deliver everythingthat I know the reader wants.
And it left me, you know, 25years in the military left.
(33:17):
I'm sat there writing cozymystery with tears streaming
down my cheeks because it's sojoyous.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I'm utterly, utterly, emotionally drained.
That's why I stopped writing incoffee showers right because
you're sobbing yeah, yeah.
There was one time where I waslike writing a scene where the
the character lost her fatherand I was crying so hard that
these two girls on another tablesent me a piece of cake because
they thought I was writing abreakup letter.
(33:40):
That's incredible.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
That's a wonderful, wonderful anecdote.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
I love that.
I think that's probably lots ofauthors have something,
something similar from that.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
But yeah that, yeah, that's, that's great that's also
a good hook for an email tomarket that book rami.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Uh the uh sobbing in coffee shops, uh that's probably
the best meet cute I've everheard.
I might have to use that nowsomewhere.
The names will be changed topredict the.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I said I don't want to be a character in your book
hey, rami, I want to ask a quickquestion.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I want to.
I want to be respectful ofsteve's time here.
Maybe pass it to you for afinal question before you wrap.
So you said uh.
You said steve, uh, you knowgoing to the pub talking and
talking about what you're doing,or heaven forbid.
You talk numbers and it justbecomes vulgar because let's
just be real and I think you'rea humble guy, you're killing it.
I mean incredible.
(34:44):
I mean seven figure fictionauthor, and when I just scroll
on, I'll screen share for peoplewho are watching this on
youtube.
I mean, when I scroll amazon,it is just series after 5 000
reviews, 2 000 reviews, 3 100reviews, 7 200 reviews on this.
I mean it is just series afterseries, book after book.
I don't even know how many tensof thousands of reviews and I
(35:07):
can only imagine how many copiessold.
It's pretty incredible.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
I'm coming up on a billion pages read.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
A billion pages read.
That's incredible.
So I guess my kind of partingquestion would be knowing what
you know now, what would you sayback to the person who's
listened to this, who maybethey're three books in, or maybe
they're just listening to thiswith a dream, saying I can't
even imagine publishing thisfirst book.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Like, what advice would you give them?
Uh, to accept the grind.
It's, it's, it's very hard atthat.
At that starting point I I'velikened it in the past to
pushing a boulder up a hill withyour face, because there's so
many unknowns, there's so muchyou need to figure out, there's
so much unknowns, there's somuch you need to figure out,
there's so much doubt, there'sno support network.
You're you're trying to climbup.
(35:57):
You're trying to climb amountain because at the mountain
is all this wonderful, fresh,pure air and and money rains
from the sky.
But getting there it's reallydifficult and you've got to
accept that grind becausethere's all this work that pays
off before you get there.
If you speak to almost any ofthe successful authors in the
community, go to the conferences.
(36:19):
This is my advice Go to theconferences and speak to the
authors out there who are makingit, who are doing well, who are
doing good.
Six figures or seven figures,and you know, maybe the
seven-figure aiming point is toohigh.
I don't think anybody that ismaking seven figures.
And you know, maybe the sevenfigure aim aiming point is too
high.
I don't think.
I don't think anybody that thatis making seven figures aimed
for it.
That's just.
That's just a byproduct of ofdoing those stages and being
(36:41):
successful and keeping at it.
The the the route to success isnot an easy one, um, and there
will be disappointments alongthe way.
You've got to expect to get abloody nose every now and then.
You can't get through lifewithout it.
So you know, expect a fewbrazes and scrapes, expect one
star reviews, um, the successfulauthors all go through this
(37:05):
period where that nothing muchis happening, they're not making
any money, they're grindingaway.
I've listened to author panelswhere there'll be five or six,
seven figure authors on thereand everyone will say, no, there
were 10 books in, there were 12books in, there were 15 books
in before they saw any realmoney.
That was exactly my story.
I had 15 books out before I,before I first made over a
(37:26):
thousand, over a thousand poundsof profit in a month, um, and
you know that that was.
That was.
That was two, two and a bityears into my career, when, when
, suddenly things started toswing and tell upwards.
So it's, and it's different foreveryone.
Some people are almostovernight successes, but
actually the overnight successis not something to look for,
(37:47):
because most of those overnightsuccesses don't last.
They, they flame hard and thenthey burn out.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
The longer it takes to build it, the longer it lasts
right.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Yeah, but I think that's true and it's a lifelong
commitment.
You've got to be completely init if you want that success.
You've got to build a very,very strong foundation and
you've got to write good booksand you've got to figure out
what you don't know, which goesback to what Rami said about me
(38:17):
in edinburgh you've got tofigure out what you don't know
and then go and close thoseholes.
Learn to feed yourself.
It's the marketing thing, um,the old statement about teach a
man to fish.
So a marketer would say if Iteach a man to fish, he'll have
no further use for me.
It's that simple.
You need to learn marketing asmuch as as much as writing books
(38:40):
.
If you can market them, that'swhere the money is.
That's where you're fishing.
Writing that you've got towrite a good book, yes, but if
you can't market it, you'renever going to sell the damn
thing.
So you've got to learn allthose other bits and pieces, but
you.
The good news is there's lotsand lots of online advice out
there.
There's youtube channels likethis one, um, there's places
(39:01):
where you can go to find thisknowledge.
There's books that you can buyfrom amazon.
You can find time.
You know, I, I used to.
I used to write all day andthen and then collapse into the
bath at night and watch ayoutube tutorial on something,
because there was all thisknowledge that I needed to gain.
So that's that's my.
That's my thoughts on thatsubject, except how, how hard
(39:24):
it's going to be you're notgoing to be an overrun success.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Do not be put off when your first five books don't
make any money and and I wantedto just echo something you were
saying a little earlier, like Iactually I and I'm sure you do
too, without mentioning names,but I do know a few authors who
had that like overnight successand then never found it again.
(39:47):
But they had that series orthat one book that, just like
you know, six figure a year, butthat was kind of like a glitch.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
And then the rest was yeah, yeah, they never
recapture it yeah, yeah, yeah,most of my this is a very
important fact, uh, veryimportant um statistic.
Most 90 plus percent of mymonthly income, regardless of
whether I launch a book or not,is backlist paranormal nonsense.
When I first launched, it got aone-star review on amazoncom
(40:19):
and died, andi didn't sell anycopies for quite a while.
In 2022, it was the number onevampire thriller on amazoncom.
For almost the entire year theydidn't't change anything.
It was just about marketing.
Don't worry about your book notselling to start with, you'll
(40:39):
get there.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Incredible.
Do you have a final questionfor your app, Rami?
Speaker 2 (40:44):
I really don't except thank you.
If I do wind up in your book, Ineed to die gloriously.
That's it, I'm thinking rightto death in.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
I need to die gloriously.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Well, I'm thinking right to death in public by a
donkey.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
at this point there's got to be a glorious one, or
spanked by midgets covered inthousand-mile dressing.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
As long as it was heroic.
What an incredible way to endit.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
There's some things you can't unsee and that will be
, one of them that.
I will probably be seeing as Iput my head on my pillow tonight
.
This was awesome, incredibleinterview.
Thank you so much, steve.
I want to just give a plug here, guys Steve Higgs check out his
books on Amazon.
He's got a ton of them.
(41:37):
You've probably heard of them.
They're doing just really well.
Bunch of great books.
Actually, I'll ask you this aswe close, steve Is there one
that you would recommend peoplebuy first?
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Like, if I've never read any of your books, what's
the first one you'd say that'svery difficult because it
depends what your taste is Ifyou want to read something you
know.
No, I would tell them to go andread Old Habits, all right.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Old Habits.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
That is a hard-boiled mystery thriller where an older
retired gentleman and his doghe's got a nose for trouble and
he wanders into a town hiding adeadly secret and things spiral
downwards from there.
I tell you what he's like JackReacher at 80 with a dog.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I love it.
Well, guys, check out oldhabits.
Big thank you to Steve.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
We've got more fiction episodescoming up in the month of
November as part of NaNoWriMo,so stay tuned.
We've got episodes, like Imentioned, on editing coming up
fiction cover design, fictionediting.
We're going to be murderboarding some books which, if
(42:47):
you don't know what that is,show up to the upcoming episode.
And if you want to find outmore about our fiction programs,
go to selfpublishingcom.
Forward slash fiction.
Steve, you're the man.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
Thank you, guys, you take care.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
See you guys.
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