December 18, 2024 • 34 mins
Join us for a captivating conversation with Michael Hoek, the mastermind behind "The Girl Who Changed the World" and co-founder of It All Makes Sense. Michael shares his unique journey of choosing fiction over non-fiction to relay the profound insights he gained from devouring over 2,000 books about life and the universe. His novel, a "management book in disguise," appeals to readers across all ages and professions, weaving storytelling with vital life lessons. You'll gain an insider's perspective on Michael's transition from the European to the U.S. publishing scene and the unexpected hurdles he faced along the way.
Michael's story isn't just about words on a page; it's an adventure filled with cultural challenges and unexpected encounters with the law. If you've ever wondered what it's like to self-publish a bestseller in a new country, Michael's experiences will enlighten you. He delves into the complexities of translation, distribution, and the importance of having the right partners to navigate unfamiliar terrains. Through his trials, Michael reveals the strategic importance of starting locally, understanding language barriers, and forming alliances that can propel a book to success.
Our discussion takes a reflective turn as we explore Michael's personal mission to balance masculine and feminine energies through his narrative. Drawing inspiration from cultural phenomena like "Barbie" and "Oppenheimer," the book challenges conventional power dynamics and societal norms. Michael emphasizes the importance of being coachable, valuing mentorship, and embracing feedback. We wrap up with practical tips for book promotion, emphasizing the role of reviews, podcasts, and Amazon ads in expanding a book's reach. Follow Michael's inspiring journey and discover how one book can indeed change the world.
Michael's story isn't just about words on a page; it's an adventure filled with cultural challenges and unexpected encounters with the law. If you've ever wondered what it's like to self-publish a bestseller in a new country, Michael's experiences will enlighten you. He delves into the complexities of translation, distribution, and the importance of having the right partners to navigate unfamiliar terrains. Through his trials, Michael reveals the strategic importance of starting locally, understanding language barriers, and forming alliances that can propel a book to success.
Our discussion takes a reflective turn as we explore Michael's personal mission to balance masculine and feminine energies through his narrative. Drawing inspiration from cultural phenomena like "Barbie" and "Oppenheimer," the book challenges conventional power dynamics and societal norms. Michael emphasizes the importance of being coachable, valuing mentorship, and embracing feedback. We wrap up with practical tips for book promotion, emphasizing the role of reviews, podcasts, and Amazon ads in expanding a book's reach. Follow Michael's inspiring journey and discover how one book can indeed change the world.
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Must-watch episodes:
- SPS 044: Using A Free + Shipping Book Funnel with Anik Singal
- SPS 115: Using Atomic Habits To Write & Publish A Book with James Clear
- SPS 127: Traditional vs. Self Publishing: Which You Should Choose with Ruth Soukup
- SPS 095: The Five Love Languages: Selling 15 Million Copies with Gary Chapman
- SPS 056: How I Sold 46M Copies of My Self Published Book with Robert Kiyosaki
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, Chandler Bolt.
Here and joining me today isMichael Hoek.
Michael is the author of a bookcalled the Girl who Changed the
World.
You can see if you're watchingthe video version.
You can see the cover.
Good looking cover.
The book turned out great.
He's also the co-founder of itAll Makes Sense, a company
focused on helping people livelighter and more relaxed lives,
(00:30):
and he's based out of.
Amsterdam, which is kind of fun,or the Netherlands, I guess, I
should say.
And so, yeah, excited to chatMichael.
He worked with us on this bookand so we've been able to see
the behind the scenes of this.
We just got a feature up.
We'll include it in the shownotes of him and his book and
(00:55):
the behind the scenes all that.
We put a feature up on theselfpublishcom site, kind of
behind the scenes of his process.
But I'm excited, welcome.
How are you?
Thank you, thank you very muchfor having me.
So tell me about.
So, I guess, first things first, why a novel and and going the
fiction approach instead ofnon-fiction to kind of convey
(01:17):
the message that you wanted toconvey in this book and and all
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
yeah, um, I think as a, I already didn't understand
the world as it was and to getthere, at some point I was seven
, I think I thought I want tounderstand what is going on in
this world and I literallymentioned in my mind I want to
discover the secrets of life.
But I just took the routethrough my brains and I started
(01:43):
reading a lot of books.
I read over 2,000 books thatwere related to the secrets of
life, the secrets of theuniverse, how things were
explained, religions, allspiritual stuff, and most of
those books were just nonfiction.
So I take such a book andsometimes I just started reading
(02:03):
the middle what I wasinterested in, and it took me a
bit of it.
Um, yeah, it took some time toget to the core, to get the
whole message of the book oreven finish them.
And then I read some storiesmore like, not novels, but the.
These, the books like, um, the,the celestine prophecy by james
Redfield or Sophie's World byJustin Gardner.
(02:24):
Those are novels but theunderlying message is the same
as a nonfiction book, and Ithink this is the way I would
like to bring a message across.
And at some point in my life Ihad an inner voice that said to
me you got to stop everythingyou do, you got to give up the
potential financial independencethat's luring the uh around the
(02:47):
corner and start doing what youcame to do here in this life.
And that is about the secret oflife.
And I thought, okay, I'll do it, and if I find it, I want to be
able to explain it to otherpeople.
I actually would like to writea book that I would love, love,
would have loved to read when Iwas a kid or when I was a
teenager or a young adult, andthat's what I ended up doing.
(03:07):
I thought I need to bring it inthe form of a novel, because
then it is, from start to end, astory that takes you by the
hand and through the wholeprocess you get a deeper
understanding of what I wantpeople to well to grab from it.
I like that uh to grab from it.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I like that.
And so let's say, from theperspective of someone listening
to this, watching this, hasn'twritten a book or uh, is just
kind of thinking through theprocess, let's say you get a
spectrum right when you say, hey, I've got these lessons that I
want to teach to people.
You've got kind of traditionalnonfiction on the left-hand side
, very straightforward, Maybehere's a story lessons recap,
(03:43):
here's a story lessons recap, etcetera.
Then you've got, I'd say, inthe middle is kind of a fable,
and we've had Patrick Lencionicome on and talk about fables.
I think we even had John Gordonmaybe talk about John Gordon or
Bob Berg.
Both have been on the show, Iforget.
We kind of nerded out on fablesin multiple episodes.
I think that's a reallyinteresting sub-genre for
business books.
I'd say that's kind of in themiddle of this spectrum.
(04:04):
Then you've got novels on theother side, so maybe even Anne
Ryan, Atlas Shrugged, you knowkind of okay, novel teaching an
underlying thing.
So how did you think about onthat spectrum, Like, would you
consider what you did a fable?
Is it a full-fledged novel?
(04:25):
Did you think about going thefable route?
Like, how did you kind of thinkabout that?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I like to call it a management book in disguise, but
that's cool, I like that it's.
It's in between a fable orallegory, something like, uh,
very, very symbolical, and Iwould just, I wanted to just be
able to take someone literallyby the hand and just lead them
(04:55):
to say, hey, you see that, hey,do you experience that?
How do you look at it?
A book that adapts to thereader, and of course I'm not
patting myself on the shoulder,but I'm proud of what it is and
it went out that way that reallyit doesn't depend on where
someone comes from.
I have professors fromuniversity reading it, I have
(05:16):
kids from eight or nine beingread or even reading it
themselves, and they both loveit because it adapts to them.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Nice.
Now I know you kind oftransitioned from the European
market to publishing in the US,and so why did you decide to
publish stateside?
I think that's when you maybestarted working with us.
Like, how did you think throughall that?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, of course, I started publishing in the
Netherlands and I learned a lotabout how it works in Europe.
Europe is quite old-fashioned,a more hierarchical way of doing
things.
Boo became a bestseller here ina few countries in Europe and I
thought well, I want to.
Of course, it's called the GirlChanged the World, but I want
(06:05):
to help change the.
Well, I want to.
Of course it's called the GirlChanged the World, but I want to
help change the world.
I want to make the world abetter place, like you do, like
you do with self-publishing.
You give a platform to people,to with every uh aspect.
So I wanted to change the worldmyself and I thought what
(06:26):
better place to do that, to makeimpact, than the us?
Um, in a lot of european eyes,the us is a country that is very
masculine, has a lot ofinfluence.
Of course, you, you, you savedus in and after World War II.
The country has such a biginfluence in the world and I
think it's well, if you want tomake a difference in the world,
start there.
So that's what I thought, and Ithought it would be easy just
(06:49):
to translate it and get itpublished, and that was a huge
underestimate.
First of all, the culturaldifference between Europe and
America are amplified bytranslation.
I had to change a lot of scenein the book where people say if
you do this, your book will bebanned on Amazon.
If you keep it unchanged, youcould be sued.
(07:13):
I thought what?
Never heard any noise on thatin Holland or in Europe.
But that was one nice thing toencounter.
And then I thought, okay, I'lljust approach publishers and
agents, and of course no onewants to have me because I'm an
unknown foreign author for them.
So then I thought I follow theexample of James Redfield, and
James Redfield has a story inthe 90s for his book the
(07:35):
Celestine Prophecy, that at somepoint he just he wasn't wanted
by any publisher or agent aswell, and he just printed 2,000
copies and drove around Americagiving away copies to readers
and bookshops out of the trunkof his car.
So I thought I'll do the same.
So I had 2,000 copies of thetranslation printed, shipped
them over to LA and startedhanding them out there.
And of course nobody wantedthem, because on LA, if you hand
(07:57):
something out to people on thestreet, they don't want it
because you can't, yeah, Askmoney for it.
I don't know, I've never beenin LA before.
So at some point I saw a lot ofhomeless people and I thought
I'll just give them my books andthey can give them away or just
charge some money for it.
So my book in LA was spreadaround by the homeless network,
was spread around by thehomeless network and then I just
(08:20):
drove forward to San Franciscoand I saw some places with huge
long lanes and all theseAmerican for me typical American
mailboxes in front of the houseand I thought, hey, that's easy
.
So I started driving past thishouse just filling each mailbox
with one book and a little noteinto it until, I think after 20
or 30 mailboxes I heard a sirenbehind of me and a sheriff
saying get out of the car, sir,You're committing a federal
crime.
What so?
(08:40):
I was arrested for touchingthese mailboxes.
Of course I now know it's afederal crime to even touch a US
mailbox and I got myself out bysaying I'm Dutch, I didn't know
and I explained what I wasdoing, but it took me three
hours to talk me out of it andthat for me was quite a
challenging experience, becausebeing confronted with an
American sheriff, being European, that's a new experience.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Oh my gosh, what a wild story.
So you publish the book in theNetherlands, then you're saying,
hey, I want to bring this tothe US, get it translated.
Okay, how do I get distribution?
Well, grassroots marketing Getarrested, or I guess, almost get
, get detained, almost getarrested.
Then then I mean, how did youwas that?
(09:27):
Was that before you startedworking with us, I'm assuming?
And then you said, yeah, whatdid that like, what did that
look like?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I thought self-publishing meant
safepublishingcom, so that's ournew tagline.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
We will keep you from getting arrested while
distributing the deals.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, that's a great one.
No, I of course try to hiresome people consultants that
assist you in getting an agent.
They secure your deal.
Well, they promise the worldand of course, deliverance is
poor or nothing.
And a lot of people then Ispoke within the publishing
(10:06):
business, like editors and someother others said you don't want
to get published with apublisher, you're out of control
.
If in two months it's not asuccess, they'll end you and you
cannot do anything about it.
You lose your rights.
Please, please, do go theself-publishing routes.
And in Europe there's adifference.
Self-publishing means lesser insome way, and I learned in
(10:30):
America that's not the case atall.
So I'm glad that I went theother way, and that's when I got
introduced to SPC and thenthings moved forward.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah.
And so let me back up, becauseI think there's a lot of times
people will ask us hey, I wantto publish in multiple languages
, or I want to publish inmultiple countries.
Should I publish in the USfirst?
Should I publish in my nativecountry first?
Should I do both at the sametime?
What was experience like?
Are you?
Are you glad that you startedand published locally in your
(11:02):
own language first and then wentto the us?
Do you wish you would have doneit the other way around?
Like, what did you learn fromthat process?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
when I made a big change in my life and started
writing and at some point, whenthe thing started flowing, I
started writing in englishbecause I my ambition was to be
published with a New Yorkpublisher, a big publishing
house, so I started writing inEnglish.
That's not my mother tongue, ofcourse, but I thought I I was
good in it.
So it turns out you're not.
So, unless you're a nativespeaker in English, don't do it,
(11:31):
uh, don't, don't start, don'tstart with writing in English.
So I had to redo my wholemanuscript, uh, in Dutch, based
on all the advice I got, andthen get it translated.
And I'm glad I did it that way,because it learned me so much
about the publishing industryclose to my home and I learned
about the differences.
And I think US is a wonderfulmarket but it's also very
(11:52):
competitive.
And if you step in without thatexperience, you can have a
success too, because you'reguiding me and other authors
that start publishing.
So that's great and clear.
But to have, like, say, a homebase and that experience, the
first steps can be verybeneficial.
But it depends, of course, whatyou want to achieve and what
(12:15):
your let's say mother tongue is.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, I think that's smart Write in your native
language first and then get ittranslated.
It's going to be easier towrite, it's going to be a better
book and you can kind of goabout it that way.
Let's kind of maybe back up afew steps and say Netherlands
specific.
How did you launch in thatmarket?
Was the purpose to grow yourbusiness?
(12:38):
Was this more of a passionproject, kind of?
How did you launch in thatmarket?
Was the purpose to grow yourbusiness?
Was this more of a passionproject, kind of how did this
fit in with what you were doing?
How did you launch it and whatcame of it?
Just local to the Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
This book is my heart , my soul and my life's mission.
I gave up my business to go onthis quest to discover the
secrets of life and then writethis book about it.
So it's my mission, it's mypassion, it's what I want to do,
um and the story is short storythat I I had sold my business.
I had to stay on for threeyears because of the consultancy
(13:07):
business, of course, related tome.
And after one year I got thisinsight, this, this inner voice
saying you gotta, you gotta quitnow and do what you want to do,
because otherwise you'll neverdo it.
And if I I had stayed on for twomore years, I would have been
financially independent and Icould do it in a totally
different way.
But apparently, if you'refinancially independent, the
urge to do things is alsodifferent.
(13:28):
I see that with a lot of otherpeople that became financially
independent.
So I think for me it was theright step.
So I stepped out of it andwanted to get it out and
published and I realized now Irealize, of course, that writing
a book is very tough andgetting it edited and getting it
finished is tough.
Then finding a publisher I didfind a publisher in the
(13:48):
Netherlands, but finding apublisher getting it out there
is really, really hard.
And then getting it sold,getting it marketed this is very
tough.
So if you know that from thebeginning it's like, oh no, no,
I'm not gonna gonna start that,I'll do something else which is
less, uh, fatiguing.
But um, I had the sameexperience here as in the US.
(14:09):
No one wanted to publish me andat some point again, it was
COVID time.
We had a lockdown and I justprinted 2,000 books and I gave
them literally away in myhometown.
I just went from door to door,put them in a mailbox it's not
illegal here Saying you might bebored, you might want to read
(14:30):
something, maybe you'll likethis.
And the results and theresponse from it was so
overwhelming I thought, okay,now I can find a publisher
because there's so much peoplesaying you got to publish this.
Then I found a publisher andthen we got it onward.
But we're the same step.
So any advice is just believein what you wrote, believe in
what you want to achieve with itand just go every step and
(14:51):
continue, continue until you gettraction.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
That's good and for some of you, I mean, I just did
a podcast interview It'll comeout after this episode, but with
Alex Strathy, and he talksabout seeding copies, this
concept of seeding copies andhow.
I forget the references that hegave.
But one person said, hey, youneed a thousand copies out in
(15:16):
the wild to really give yourbook any sort of legs.
And another person said, hey,you need 20,000 copies.
So he said, hey, it's probablysomewhere in the middle, right,
but thinking about, hey, how doI get a base level of books out
into the world in a way thatpeople will read it and that it
will start to grow some legs ofits own?
(15:37):
And so I think it's really coolhearing you say that of just
hey, how do I shortcut thisprocess and get this in 2,000
hands.
And then now you said theresponse was really good.
So what started happening?
Were people giving the book toother people?
Were telling other people tobuy it.
Were they, did you have peoplereaching out to you?
Like what did that responsekind of look like?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
they were reaching out on social media and the
local facebook groups of ourcommunity and and and getting
back to me, of course.
So I I gathered that all andbrought that to again to
publishers and some publisherssaid, hey, now this is
interesting, but it wasn't evenfor sale then.
So if you are looking to spreadyour book with the aim of
(16:19):
supporting your business, Ithink it might be a different
route, and if you want to have abestseller with tens of
thousands of copies being soldin the end, I think this is the
way.
That might be the way to do it,but I don't believe it's.
Giving away is very good, butof course, at some point you got
to materialize on that.
So I don't believe in setting asales price and then
(16:41):
discounting it.
Because you believe in yourmessage, you believe in your
book, what you wrote, I thinkbooks are so much powerful, and
so much more powerful than manyof the online courses that you
can do.
Of course, they're very goodonline courses, but many of them
are very expensive and what youget there is what you can read
in a book for a fraction of theprice.
(17:01):
You only have to read it.
Books are treasures, but Ithink this is right.
The seeding aspect is veryimportant to get it out there to
people who you get, to getmomentum and there's maybe one
or two person there that isreally going to give you a stage
.
Of course, everyone wants acelebrity credential or
celebrity blurb or somethinglike that, and they know that.
(17:25):
Of course you got to build up.
So probably it's true that it'sroughly between the 1,000 and
20,000.
20,000 is a lot, but it's likeshooting with hail.
You shoot with hail and you hittargets, but you don't know in
which direction you have toshoot.
You just shoot.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, we call it the shotgun approach and the shotgun
versus pray method.
Take the rifle approach andfocus on the handful of things
that will move the needle Getreviews, get on podcasts, get
your book out there.
Amazon ads what are all thelittle levers that you can use
to get your book out?
(18:06):
A launch team obviously that'sone of our big concepts, that we
teach All of them.
Yeah, a launch team obviouslythat's one of our our big
concepts, that we teach all ofthem.
Yeah, and so tell me, you know,how did you find out about
selfpublishingcom and at whatpoint in your journey was that
and why did you decide to workwith us all that good stuff, um,
in this way.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
When I had my book translated, um, and and did all
this exercise in getting also2,000 copies in the US, I met
someone, a retired Americansoldier, who just was really
setting up a network in theNetherlands and he said I don't
like shooting with hail, I liketo shoot with laser-sharp
precision weapons, because hewas a precision weapon expert.
(18:46):
And he introduced me to KristenAndrews.
She worked for Stedman, forGraham Stedman, stedman, graham
sorry, the partner of OprahWinfrey for over 15 years and
she had been editing his booksand introduced me to her and she
was in love with the story butsaid, ok, we can uplift it.
So she really polished it,uplifted to the level that is
(19:06):
really, I think, the right levelfor the American readers and
American markets, really I thinkthe right level for the
American readers and Americanmarkets.
And we were together on thisquest to find an agent or find a
publisher, with a lot ofdisappointments in that way, and
at some point she was indeedintroduced to SBC, saying OK,
this might be the group ofpeople that is really capable of
getting the book right outthere in the right state, with
the right approach, the rightlaunch, but you know you still
(19:30):
have to do it yourself.
You can launch whatever youwant, but you the the whole
propulsion is yourself.
So you gotta keep uh puttingthe energy in, gotta keep moving
it, gotta keep on uhcontinuously putting your own
effort in it and if you, ifthat's your, your, your your
type of of of dealing with it,if you can uh master that, and
if you like that, then this isthe right way to do that.
(19:51):
So she well, it was via, via,via, but in the end that's
always the way it works, uh, andof course, you have very good
credentials.
So that's that added to it cool, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
And and and remind me that that book cover did we do
that book cover?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
um no um my wife was a designer and she designed it,
uh, also for the dutch markets.
We added, we adapted this forthe american market and we spoke
with you, of course, designexperts.
She already had designed itbecause we, and together we, we,
manipulated it.
So so they, your team, helped,but in the end it was my wife's
design I love it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Well, shout out to your wife, I wish we could claim
credit for that design.
I'm like man.
That is a good looking bookcover.
That looks really good.
Thank you.
What was the most helpful partabout working with us and what
was maybe the toughest part ofthe process for you so far?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
um, I think the really the helpful part was was
the the experts that you have onmarketing and getting it on
amazon and all that expertise ongetting it right.
Just taking all those worriesoff my shoulders say, okay, hey,
this is what I'm going to doand this is how we're going to
arrange it.
The tough part is always where,if you're an American author
(21:10):
and you're launching your bookwith you for the first time,
that's a different experiencethan when you already had done
it once and you maybe become abit more stubborn or a bit more
of my own idea.
But that's good, that friction.
It polishes the diamonds, sothat's good.
So I don't think there were anyrough parts in there.
(21:30):
It's only good where you have,um, the interaction, say, okay,
I might think I'm with it andand being advised the other way,
so you get some, some, some,not a fight, but you get some
discussion and someone's okay,let's do it that way or do it
that way.
I accept your advice, let's gothat way, that's, that's just
normal interaction and that'svery good that it has been that
way that's good.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Well, that's good for people listening to this who
are either are working with us,who are thinking about working
with us.
I mean, I think there's twothings there.
It's one, to your point, justbeing coachable, and you know,
we always tell people.
Well, I remember my mentor whenI was first starting in
business.
He had this phrase which justkind of drove me crazy and I
thought was really dumb, butthen I kind of came around to it
(22:12):
.
He said listen and do it.
He said I know the process ofwhat you're about to do and I'm
going to give you advice and allyou have to do is listen and
then do it.
He's like, no, you're going towant to question it.
You're going to want to say, oh, that's not right, You're going
to want to whatever.
But I've done this and you haveit and so just listen to what I
(22:33):
say and and it will work.
But if you try to outsmart it,you're gonna not do the core
things that you need to do.
So just listen.
And so it was almost just thissuper clarifying thing for me up
front where I said okay, well,I'm just gonna listen exactly
what you say and I'm gonna do itand I'm gonna work harder than
anybody else and I'm gonna besuper coachable and it worked
(22:53):
right.
At that company I became thenumber one in the company,
number one in the country forall franchisees, and so we've
kind of adopted that mantra witha lot of authors that we work
with is hey, you're paying us togive you a process and
accountability, but also to giveyou tough feedback, and I think
it's easy to get but to yourpoint, it's really impressive
how you've done this and workingwith us is.
(23:16):
It's one thing to say that orto understand it, it's another
thing to do it.
So when someone comes to me andI say, hey, the title isn't
good, they're like hey, I thinkI've got my title.
That's not good.
Come back with five more.
Or hey, the cover, cover, yeah,it could be better.
And then, just week after week,showing up to these group
coaching calls with me and I'msaying, all right, come back
(23:36):
next week, keep working it.
It can be infuriating and youcan just feel like you're
beating your head against thekeyboard or against your
computer, but what ends uphappening is you get a better
book, but only if you listen andtake the feedback, and so I
know you've really done that.
Was there any lessons learnedfrom that or any advice for
(23:57):
people who are kind of goingthrough the process or about to
go through the process?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Well, I think you gave it all.
I think being coachable isreally important and sometimes,
if you really have your strongfeeling or strong conviction
that it should be different,prove it.
There are some points where, ofcourse, your point is very
valuable as an author, but onthe other side, you're the
experts and you got to indeedcombine it, and I think it's
(24:23):
also about what is it you wantto achieve.
If, of course, you want to getyour masterpiece out there in a
way you want it, that's, that'syour choice.
You can do it, of course, butif you want to do, let's say,
reach a larger audience or get abestseller, or or make it as as
um as as possible, as as as toget your audience as big as
(24:46):
possible, then you should listento the advice.
Okay, if that, if that's whatyou want, then you got to give
up some of the autonomy of whatyou created, because indeed, it
will be better is subjective,but it will be a better project
for a larger group, for a largeraudience and therefore a larger
success in that way, measuredin quantities.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
That's good.
Let's give a little teaser ofthe book.
So the book's called the Girlwho Changed the World.
What's the why behind that?
Why a girl is the maincharacter of the story.
And who is this book for?
Who listening to this shouldsay, hey, I should get this book
(25:28):
.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Now I'm being stubborn.
This book is for everyone, ofcourse, and that's what every
author says, and you got to findyour target audience, which is
your main audience.
So it had to be about a girl,because what I finally
understood in my quest is thatwhat I didn't understand about
the world is that our world isso much out of balance.
(25:49):
I didn't understand about theworld is that our world is so
much out of balance thatmasculine energy, or call it
male energy or the way masculineenergy works, has controlled
our world for millennia.
I mean, it's in our businesssystem, it's in our economical
system, our political system,legal system.
There's a big disbalance andwe've taken it for granted by
(26:10):
being raised that way and, ofcourse, we had movements where
things were getting more equal.
But in all these aspects, oursociety is, in that way, really
out of balance.
Anything out of balance willcreate things that are unhealthy
or will, in the end, toppleover.
So one thing that I understoodthere is okay if we want to
(26:33):
bring back this balance, I haveto, let's say, even maybe stir
the pot of sisterhoods.
I have to maybe challengefeminine energy, women to maybe
stand up, because it's a dualaction.
It's not about men saying, orthe masculine part saying, okay,
we got to do things differently.
It's the feminine part that hasto do the same, and my
(26:55):
perception, my observation, isthat this balance is created by
both sides and we need on bothsides something to happen to
really create a balance.
And that's why I call my bookalso Barbie Meets Oppenheimer,
because it's the Barbie movie,which I think is a really clever
movie in that way, aboutpatriarchy, matriarchy and
Oppenheimer, where it's aboutquantum physics.
(27:17):
So what I try to explain inthis book is first, it's about a
young girl, 13-year-old girl,and she's being taught by her
grandfather how you can look atlife.
She's unhappy and a lot ofthings are against her in her
life and he teaches her how youcan discover to make that change
, how you can really change yourworld and then the world in a
(27:38):
way that things really becomethe opposite of what you thought
they were, and by doing so heteaches us about quantum physics
, like really in a nutshell, toget it explained.
So that's the Oppenheimeraspect, because in the end the
world becomes a differentplayground, a different way of
interacting with it.
It's not the world coming atyou and all its massiveness and
everything that's set out instone and everything is
(28:01):
unchangeable.
It becomes an interaction anddance with everything outside
there.
Unchangeable.
It becomes an interaction anddance with everything outside
there and by making that dance,this girl transcends and she
even changes her grandfatherbecause and that's the masculine
aspect she changes him in whathe, he says, but he doesn't walk
his talk, and I think that isboth a nice metaphor as well as,
for me, um, a kind of a uhcalling to, yeah, women,
(28:23):
feminine energy to say there'sgot to change something.
And if you profess sisterhoodbut not living up to it, that's
my observation we got to changesome things to make this, to
make this, to really get to aworld where everything is
balanced, and that's that meanschanging some system as well.
So it's an underlying level inthe story, but it's part of it.
(28:45):
So that's what's part of my, Ithink, life and souls mission is
about.
I want to contribute to abalanced world where, uh, things
are different.
One thing to say about that.
I'll stop everything.
Our world, in current world, inconflicts, is created on a
masculine level where there isaction, reaction, revenge and
another revenge on, if you lookat conflicts that are violent
(29:07):
conflicts, wars and all theassaults going on in the world.
If we want to solve this, likeAysen said, you cannot solve it
on the level where it wascreated.
You need a higher level, and Ithink, I feel, that this higher
level, overarching energy isfeminine, because there are
different connections in thatway that they can bring and
(29:28):
relate to and overcome theconflicts that we have created
and which we are so firm upon.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
That's cool, well, and, I think, a really good job
of explaining.
I mean, the Barbara meetsOppenheimer that is a phrase
that I mean just instantlycaptures the essence, I think.
So that's a really gooddescriptor.
I would definitely keep usingthat.
And then, secondly, I like someof what you're saying.
I think a little bit of apolarizing take, which I think
(29:56):
is pretty smart.
I mean not only because it'ssomething you believe, but it
also it's.
You've probably heard of thethree-star book with no
three-star reviews.
It's a Perry Marshall marketingconcept, and so he talks about
how there's some books that arereally polarizing and it's like
a three-star on Amazon, butreally there's no three-star
(30:20):
reviews.
It's five stars from the peoplewho absolutely love it.
And then it's then arguing inthe comments about why the other
person is wrong, which drives alot of book sales.
And so I think I think a lot ofpeople are afraid to take a
polarizing stance and so theywater it down and they have a
vanilla book.
Well then, who cares?
(30:41):
No one, and so I, I like, Ilike the approach you're taking
there.
No one, and so I like theapproach you're taking there.
Last question I'll ask is whatwould be your parting piece of
advice for someone who's in yourshoes from years ago, thinking
about writing their first book,or someone who's thinking about
working with us atselfpublishcom.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
I always like to say it's never too late to start
something, it's never late tochange something, and please do
it, because if you havesomething in you that you want
to bring out to the world, do it, because that's what the world
needs.
The world wants to see you inyour pure message.
And I like your phrase aboutthe three stars, about the
polarization, about be your trueself in that way, and if that
(31:24):
creates a lot of critic as wellas praise, then that's wonderful
, it's.
It's, yeah, better than thebland three-star average.
Get the five ones and acceptthe one stars.
That's wonderful, I like.
So.
I like that comment on that.
So, um, anyone doing thinkingabout doing this, please do it,
because the world you're doingthe world of this service not
not to express your, yourdeepest feelings or your or your
(31:46):
deepest fantasies or yourdeepest stories or your deepest
wisdom.
Please get it out there, butrealize it's sometimes a bit of
a tough journey, but that makesit interesting.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Hey guys, the book is called the Girl who Changed the
World.
Check it out.
Where would you like to sendpeople, kind of, as we wrap up
here?
Where's the best place for themto go to check out the book?
Learn more about you, whatyou're up to just on amazon.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Amazon is really, really the friend here all right
, check it out, guys.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
The girl who changed the world, michael, appreciate
it.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Thank you, chandler thank you very much.
Hey, Chandler Bolt.
Here and joining me today isMichael Hoek.
Michael is the author of a bookcalled the Girl who Changed the
World.
You can see if you're watchingthe video version.
You can see the cover.
Good looking cover.
The book turned out great.
He's also the co-founder of itAll Makes Sense, a company
focused on helping people livelighter and more relaxed lives,
(00:30):
and he's based out of.
Amsterdam, which is kind of fun,or the Netherlands, I guess, I
should say.
And so, yeah, excited to chatMichael.
He worked with us on this bookand so we've been able to see
the behind the scenes of this.
We just got a feature up.
We'll include it in the shownotes of him and his book and
(00:55):
the behind the scenes all that.
We put a feature up on theselfpublishcom site, kind of
behind the scenes of his process.
But I'm excited, welcome.
How are you?
Thank you, thank you very muchfor having me.
So tell me about.
So, I guess, first things first, why a novel and and going the
fiction approach instead ofnon-fiction to kind of convey
(01:17):
the message that you wanted toconvey in this book and and all
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
yeah, um, I think as a, I already didn't understand
the world as it was and to getthere, at some point I was seven
, I think I thought I want tounderstand what is going on in
this world and I literallymentioned in my mind I want to
discover the secrets of life.
But I just took the routethrough my brains and I started
(01:43):
reading a lot of books.
I read over 2,000 books thatwere related to the secrets of
life, the secrets of theuniverse, how things were
explained, religions, allspiritual stuff, and most of
those books were just nonfiction.
So I take such a book andsometimes I just started reading
(02:03):
the middle what I wasinterested in, and it took me a
bit of it.
Um, yeah, it took some time toget to the core, to get the
whole message of the book oreven finish them.
And then I read some storiesmore like, not novels, but the.
These, the books like, um, the,the celestine prophecy by james
Redfield or Sophie's World byJustin Gardner.
(02:24):
Those are novels but theunderlying message is the same
as a nonfiction book, and Ithink this is the way I would
like to bring a message across.
And at some point in my life Ihad an inner voice that said to
me you got to stop everythingyou do, you got to give up the
potential financial independencethat's luring the uh around the
(02:47):
corner and start doing what youcame to do here in this life.
And that is about the secret oflife.
And I thought, okay, I'll do it, and if I find it, I want to be
able to explain it to otherpeople.
I actually would like to writea book that I would love, love,
would have loved to read when Iwas a kid or when I was a
teenager or a young adult, andthat's what I ended up doing.
(03:07):
I thought I need to bring it inthe form of a novel, because
then it is, from start to end, astory that takes you by the
hand and through the wholeprocess you get a deeper
understanding of what I wantpeople to well to grab from it.
I like that uh to grab from it.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I like that.
And so let's say, from theperspective of someone listening
to this, watching this, hasn'twritten a book or uh, is just
kind of thinking through theprocess, let's say you get a
spectrum right when you say, hey, I've got these lessons that I
want to teach to people.
You've got kind of traditionalnonfiction on the left-hand side
, very straightforward, Maybehere's a story lessons recap,
(03:43):
here's a story lessons recap, etcetera.
Then you've got, I'd say, inthe middle is kind of a fable,
and we've had Patrick Lencionicome on and talk about fables.
I think we even had John Gordonmaybe talk about John Gordon or
Bob Berg.
Both have been on the show, Iforget.
We kind of nerded out on fablesin multiple episodes.
I think that's a reallyinteresting sub-genre for
business books.
I'd say that's kind of in themiddle of this spectrum.
(04:04):
Then you've got novels on theother side, so maybe even Anne
Ryan, Atlas Shrugged, you knowkind of okay, novel teaching an
underlying thing.
So how did you think about onthat spectrum, Like, would you
consider what you did a fable?
Is it a full-fledged novel?
(04:25):
Did you think about going thefable route?
Like, how did you kind of thinkabout that?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I like to call it a management book in disguise, but
that's cool, I like that it's.
It's in between a fable orallegory, something like, uh,
very, very symbolical, and Iwould just, I wanted to just be
able to take someone literallyby the hand and just lead them
(04:55):
to say, hey, you see that, hey,do you experience that?
How do you look at it?
A book that adapts to thereader, and of course I'm not
patting myself on the shoulder,but I'm proud of what it is and
it went out that way that reallyit doesn't depend on where
someone comes from.
I have professors fromuniversity reading it, I have
(05:16):
kids from eight or nine beingread or even reading it
themselves, and they both loveit because it adapts to them.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Nice.
Now I know you kind oftransitioned from the European
market to publishing in the US,and so why did you decide to
publish stateside?
I think that's when you maybestarted working with us.
Like, how did you think throughall that?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, of course, I started publishing in the
Netherlands and I learned a lotabout how it works in Europe.
Europe is quite old-fashioned,a more hierarchical way of doing
things.
Boo became a bestseller here ina few countries in Europe and I
thought well, I want to.
Of course, it's called the GirlChanged the World, but I want
(06:05):
to help change the.
Well, I want to.
Of course it's called the GirlChanged the World, but I want to
help change the world.
I want to make the world abetter place, like you do, like
you do with self-publishing.
You give a platform to people,to with every uh aspect.
So I wanted to change the worldmyself and I thought what
(06:26):
better place to do that, to makeimpact, than the us?
Um, in a lot of european eyes,the us is a country that is very
masculine, has a lot ofinfluence.
Of course, you, you, you savedus in and after World War II.
The country has such a biginfluence in the world and I
think it's well, if you want tomake a difference in the world,
start there.
So that's what I thought, and Ithought it would be easy just
(06:49):
to translate it and get itpublished, and that was a huge
underestimate.
First of all, the culturaldifference between Europe and
America are amplified bytranslation.
I had to change a lot of scenein the book where people say if
you do this, your book will bebanned on Amazon.
If you keep it unchanged, youcould be sued.
(07:13):
I thought what?
Never heard any noise on thatin Holland or in Europe.
But that was one nice thing toencounter.
And then I thought, okay, I'lljust approach publishers and
agents, and of course no onewants to have me because I'm an
unknown foreign author for them.
So then I thought I follow theexample of James Redfield, and
James Redfield has a story inthe 90s for his book the
(07:35):
Celestine Prophecy, that at somepoint he just he wasn't wanted
by any publisher or agent aswell, and he just printed 2,000
copies and drove around Americagiving away copies to readers
and bookshops out of the trunkof his car.
So I thought I'll do the same.
So I had 2,000 copies of thetranslation printed, shipped
them over to LA and startedhanding them out there.
And of course nobody wantedthem, because on LA, if you hand
(07:57):
something out to people on thestreet, they don't want it
because you can't, yeah, Askmoney for it.
I don't know, I've never beenin LA before.
So at some point I saw a lot ofhomeless people and I thought
I'll just give them my books andthey can give them away or just
charge some money for it.
So my book in LA was spreadaround by the homeless network,
was spread around by thehomeless network and then I just
(08:20):
drove forward to San Franciscoand I saw some places with huge
long lanes and all theseAmerican for me typical American
mailboxes in front of the houseand I thought, hey, that's easy
.
So I started driving past thishouse just filling each mailbox
with one book and a little noteinto it until, I think after 20
or 30 mailboxes I heard a sirenbehind of me and a sheriff
saying get out of the car, sir,You're committing a federal
crime.
What so?
(08:40):
I was arrested for touchingthese mailboxes.
Of course I now know it's afederal crime to even touch a US
mailbox and I got myself out bysaying I'm Dutch, I didn't know
and I explained what I wasdoing, but it took me three
hours to talk me out of it andthat for me was quite a
challenging experience, becausebeing confronted with an
American sheriff, being European, that's a new experience.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Oh my gosh, what a wild story.
So you publish the book in theNetherlands, then you're saying,
hey, I want to bring this tothe US, get it translated.
Okay, how do I get distribution?
Well, grassroots marketing Getarrested, or I guess, almost get
, get detained, almost getarrested.
Then then I mean, how did youwas that?
(09:27):
Was that before you startedworking with us, I'm assuming?
And then you said, yeah, whatdid that like, what did that
look like?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I thought self-publishing meant
safepublishingcom, so that's ournew tagline.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
We will keep you from getting arrested while
distributing the deals.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, that's a great one.
No, I of course try to hiresome people consultants that
assist you in getting an agent.
They secure your deal.
Well, they promise the worldand of course, deliverance is
poor or nothing.
And a lot of people then Ispoke within the publishing
(10:06):
business, like editors and someother others said you don't want
to get published with apublisher, you're out of control
.
If in two months it's not asuccess, they'll end you and you
cannot do anything about it.
You lose your rights.
Please, please, do go theself-publishing routes.
And in Europe there's adifference.
Self-publishing means lesser insome way, and I learned in
(10:30):
America that's not the case atall.
So I'm glad that I went theother way, and that's when I got
introduced to SPC and thenthings moved forward.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah.
And so let me back up, becauseI think there's a lot of times
people will ask us hey, I wantto publish in multiple languages
, or I want to publish inmultiple countries.
Should I publish in the USfirst?
Should I publish in my nativecountry first?
Should I do both at the sametime?
What was experience like?
Are you?
Are you glad that you startedand published locally in your
(11:02):
own language first and then wentto the us?
Do you wish you would have doneit the other way around?
Like, what did you learn fromthat process?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
when I made a big change in my life and started
writing and at some point, whenthe thing started flowing, I
started writing in englishbecause I my ambition was to be
published with a New Yorkpublisher, a big publishing
house, so I started writing inEnglish.
That's not my mother tongue, ofcourse, but I thought I I was
good in it.
So it turns out you're not.
So, unless you're a nativespeaker in English, don't do it,
(11:31):
uh, don't, don't start, don'tstart with writing in English.
So I had to redo my wholemanuscript, uh, in Dutch, based
on all the advice I got, andthen get it translated.
And I'm glad I did it that way,because it learned me so much
about the publishing industryclose to my home and I learned
about the differences.
And I think US is a wonderfulmarket but it's also very
(11:52):
competitive.
And if you step in without thatexperience, you can have a
success too, because you'reguiding me and other authors
that start publishing.
So that's great and clear.
But to have, like, say, a homebase and that experience, the
first steps can be verybeneficial.
But it depends, of course, whatyou want to achieve and what
(12:15):
your let's say mother tongue is.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, I think that's smart Write in your native
language first and then get ittranslated.
It's going to be easier towrite, it's going to be a better
book and you can kind of goabout it that way.
Let's kind of maybe back up afew steps and say Netherlands
specific.
How did you launch in thatmarket?
Was the purpose to grow yourbusiness?
(12:38):
Was this more of a passionproject, kind of?
How did you launch in thatmarket?
Was the purpose to grow yourbusiness?
Was this more of a passionproject, kind of how did this
fit in with what you were doing?
How did you launch it and whatcame of it?
Just local to the Netherlands.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
This book is my heart , my soul and my life's mission.
I gave up my business to go onthis quest to discover the
secrets of life and then writethis book about it.
So it's my mission, it's mypassion, it's what I want to do,
um and the story is short storythat I I had sold my business.
I had to stay on for threeyears because of the consultancy
(13:07):
business, of course, related tome.
And after one year I got thisinsight, this, this inner voice
saying you gotta, you gotta quitnow and do what you want to do,
because otherwise you'll neverdo it.
And if I I had stayed on for twomore years, I would have been
financially independent and Icould do it in a totally
different way.
But apparently, if you'refinancially independent, the
urge to do things is alsodifferent.
(13:28):
I see that with a lot of otherpeople that became financially
independent.
So I think for me it was theright step.
So I stepped out of it andwanted to get it out and
published and I realized now Irealize, of course, that writing
a book is very tough andgetting it edited and getting it
finished is tough.
Then finding a publisher I didfind a publisher in the
(13:48):
Netherlands, but finding apublisher getting it out there
is really, really hard.
And then getting it sold,getting it marketed this is very
tough.
So if you know that from thebeginning it's like, oh no, no,
I'm not gonna gonna start that,I'll do something else which is
less, uh, fatiguing.
But um, I had the sameexperience here as in the US.
(14:09):
No one wanted to publish me andat some point again, it was
COVID time.
We had a lockdown and I justprinted 2,000 books and I gave
them literally away in myhometown.
I just went from door to door,put them in a mailbox it's not
illegal here Saying you might bebored, you might want to read
(14:30):
something, maybe you'll likethis.
And the results and theresponse from it was so
overwhelming I thought, okay,now I can find a publisher
because there's so much peoplesaying you got to publish this.
Then I found a publisher andthen we got it onward.
But we're the same step.
So any advice is just believein what you wrote, believe in
what you want to achieve with itand just go every step and
(14:51):
continue, continue until you gettraction.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
That's good and for some of you, I mean, I just did
a podcast interview It'll comeout after this episode, but with
Alex Strathy, and he talksabout seeding copies, this
concept of seeding copies andhow.
I forget the references that hegave.
But one person said, hey, youneed a thousand copies out in
(15:16):
the wild to really give yourbook any sort of legs.
And another person said, hey,you need 20,000 copies.
So he said, hey, it's probablysomewhere in the middle, right,
but thinking about, hey, how doI get a base level of books out
into the world in a way thatpeople will read it and that it
will start to grow some legs ofits own?
(15:37):
And so I think it's really coolhearing you say that of just
hey, how do I shortcut thisprocess and get this in 2,000
hands.
And then now you said theresponse was really good.
So what started happening?
Were people giving the book toother people?
Were telling other people tobuy it.
Were they, did you have peoplereaching out to you?
Like what did that responsekind of look like?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
they were reaching out on social media and the
local facebook groups of ourcommunity and and and getting
back to me, of course.
So I I gathered that all andbrought that to again to
publishers and some publisherssaid, hey, now this is
interesting, but it wasn't evenfor sale then.
So if you are looking to spreadyour book with the aim of
(16:19):
supporting your business, Ithink it might be a different
route, and if you want to have abestseller with tens of
thousands of copies being soldin the end, I think this is the
way.
That might be the way to do it,but I don't believe it's.
Giving away is very good, butof course, at some point you got
to materialize on that.
So I don't believe in setting asales price and then
(16:41):
discounting it.
Because you believe in yourmessage, you believe in your
book, what you wrote, I thinkbooks are so much powerful, and
so much more powerful than manyof the online courses that you
can do.
Of course, they're very goodonline courses, but many of them
are very expensive and what youget there is what you can read
in a book for a fraction of theprice.
(17:01):
You only have to read it.
Books are treasures, but Ithink this is right.
The seeding aspect is veryimportant to get it out there to
people who you get, to getmomentum and there's maybe one
or two person there that isreally going to give you a stage
.
Of course, everyone wants acelebrity credential or
celebrity blurb or somethinglike that, and they know that.
(17:25):
Of course you got to build up.
So probably it's true that it'sroughly between the 1,000 and
20,000.
20,000 is a lot, but it's likeshooting with hail.
You shoot with hail and you hittargets, but you don't know in
which direction you have toshoot.
You just shoot.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, we call it the shotgun approach and the shotgun
versus pray method.
Take the rifle approach andfocus on the handful of things
that will move the needle Getreviews, get on podcasts, get
your book out there.
Amazon ads what are all thelittle levers that you can use
to get your book out?
(18:06):
A launch team obviously that'sone of our big concepts, that we
teach All of them.
Yeah, a launch team obviouslythat's one of our our big
concepts, that we teach all ofthem.
Yeah, and so tell me, you know,how did you find out about
selfpublishingcom and at whatpoint in your journey was that
and why did you decide to workwith us all that good stuff, um,
in this way.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
When I had my book translated, um, and and did all
this exercise in getting also2,000 copies in the US, I met
someone, a retired Americansoldier, who just was really
setting up a network in theNetherlands and he said I don't
like shooting with hail, I liketo shoot with laser-sharp
precision weapons, because hewas a precision weapon expert.
(18:46):
And he introduced me to KristenAndrews.
She worked for Stedman, forGraham Stedman, stedman, graham
sorry, the partner of OprahWinfrey for over 15 years and
she had been editing his booksand introduced me to her and she
was in love with the story butsaid, ok, we can uplift it.
So she really polished it,uplifted to the level that is
(19:06):
really, I think, the right levelfor the American readers and
American markets, really I thinkthe right level for the
American readers and Americanmarkets.
And we were together on thisquest to find an agent or find a
publisher, with a lot ofdisappointments in that way, and
at some point she was indeedintroduced to SBC, saying OK,
this might be the group ofpeople that is really capable of
getting the book right outthere in the right state, with
the right approach, the rightlaunch, but you know you still
(19:30):
have to do it yourself.
You can launch whatever youwant, but you the the whole
propulsion is yourself.
So you gotta keep uh puttingthe energy in, gotta keep moving
it, gotta keep on uhcontinuously putting your own
effort in it and if you, ifthat's your, your, your your
type of of of dealing with it,if you can uh master that, and
if you like that, then this isthe right way to do that.
(19:51):
So she well, it was via, via,via, but in the end that's
always the way it works, uh, andof course, you have very good
credentials.
So that's that added to it cool, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
And and and remind me that that book cover did we do
that book cover?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
um no um my wife was a designer and she designed it,
uh, also for the dutch markets.
We added, we adapted this forthe american market and we spoke
with you, of course, designexperts.
She already had designed itbecause we, and together we, we,
manipulated it.
So so they, your team, helped,but in the end it was my wife's
design I love it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Well, shout out to your wife, I wish we could claim
credit for that design.
I'm like man.
That is a good looking bookcover.
That looks really good.
Thank you.
What was the most helpful partabout working with us and what
was maybe the toughest part ofthe process for you so far?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
um, I think the really the helpful part was was
the the experts that you have onmarketing and getting it on
amazon and all that expertise ongetting it right.
Just taking all those worriesoff my shoulders say, okay, hey,
this is what I'm going to doand this is how we're going to
arrange it.
The tough part is always where,if you're an American author
(21:10):
and you're launching your bookwith you for the first time,
that's a different experiencethan when you already had done
it once and you maybe become abit more stubborn or a bit more
of my own idea.
But that's good, that friction.
It polishes the diamonds, sothat's good.
So I don't think there were anyrough parts in there.
(21:30):
It's only good where you have,um, the interaction, say, okay,
I might think I'm with it andand being advised the other way,
so you get some, some, some,not a fight, but you get some
discussion and someone's okay,let's do it that way or do it
that way.
I accept your advice, let's gothat way, that's, that's just
normal interaction and that'svery good that it has been that
way that's good.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Well, that's good for people listening to this who
are either are working with us,who are thinking about working
with us.
I mean, I think there's twothings there.
It's one, to your point, justbeing coachable, and you know,
we always tell people.
Well, I remember my mentor whenI was first starting in
business.
He had this phrase which justkind of drove me crazy and I
thought was really dumb, butthen I kind of came around to it
(22:12):
.
He said listen and do it.
He said I know the process ofwhat you're about to do and I'm
going to give you advice and allyou have to do is listen and
then do it.
He's like, no, you're going towant to question it.
You're going to want to say, oh, that's not right, You're going
to want to whatever.
But I've done this and you haveit and so just listen to what I
(22:33):
say and and it will work.
But if you try to outsmart it,you're gonna not do the core
things that you need to do.
So just listen.
And so it was almost just thissuper clarifying thing for me up
front where I said okay, well,I'm just gonna listen exactly
what you say and I'm gonna do itand I'm gonna work harder than
anybody else and I'm gonna besuper coachable and it worked
(22:53):
right.
At that company I became thenumber one in the company,
number one in the country forall franchisees, and so we've
kind of adopted that mantra witha lot of authors that we work
with is hey, you're paying us togive you a process and
accountability, but also to giveyou tough feedback, and I think
it's easy to get but to yourpoint, it's really impressive
how you've done this and workingwith us is.
(23:16):
It's one thing to say that orto understand it, it's another
thing to do it.
So when someone comes to me andI say, hey, the title isn't
good, they're like hey, I thinkI've got my title.
That's not good.
Come back with five more.
Or hey, the cover, cover, yeah,it could be better.
And then, just week after week,showing up to these group
coaching calls with me and I'msaying, all right, come back
(23:36):
next week, keep working it.
It can be infuriating and youcan just feel like you're
beating your head against thekeyboard or against your
computer, but what ends uphappening is you get a better
book, but only if you listen andtake the feedback, and so I
know you've really done that.
Was there any lessons learnedfrom that or any advice for
(23:57):
people who are kind of goingthrough the process or about to
go through the process?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Well, I think you gave it all.
I think being coachable isreally important and sometimes,
if you really have your strongfeeling or strong conviction
that it should be different,prove it.
There are some points where, ofcourse, your point is very
valuable as an author, but onthe other side, you're the
experts and you got to indeedcombine it, and I think it's
(24:23):
also about what is it you wantto achieve.
If, of course, you want to getyour masterpiece out there in a
way you want it, that's, that'syour choice.
You can do it, of course, butif you want to do, let's say,
reach a larger audience or get abestseller, or or make it as as
um as as possible, as as as toget your audience as big as
(24:46):
possible, then you should listento the advice.
Okay, if that, if that's whatyou want, then you got to give
up some of the autonomy of whatyou created, because indeed, it
will be better is subjective,but it will be a better project
for a larger group, for a largeraudience and therefore a larger
success in that way, measuredin quantities.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
That's good.
Let's give a little teaser ofthe book.
So the book's called the Girlwho Changed the World.
What's the why behind that?
Why a girl is the maincharacter of the story.
And who is this book for?
Who listening to this shouldsay, hey, I should get this book
(25:28):
.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Now I'm being stubborn.
This book is for everyone, ofcourse, and that's what every
author says, and you got to findyour target audience, which is
your main audience.
So it had to be about a girl,because what I finally
understood in my quest is thatwhat I didn't understand about
the world is that our world isso much out of balance.
(25:49):
I didn't understand about theworld is that our world is so
much out of balance thatmasculine energy, or call it
male energy or the way masculineenergy works, has controlled
our world for millennia.
I mean, it's in our businesssystem, it's in our economical
system, our political system,legal system.
There's a big disbalance andwe've taken it for granted by
(26:10):
being raised that way and, ofcourse, we had movements where
things were getting more equal.
But in all these aspects, oursociety is, in that way, really
out of balance.
Anything out of balance willcreate things that are unhealthy
or will, in the end, toppleover.
So one thing that I understoodthere is okay if we want to
(26:33):
bring back this balance, I haveto, let's say, even maybe stir
the pot of sisterhoods.
I have to maybe challengefeminine energy, women to maybe
stand up, because it's a dualaction.
It's not about men saying, orthe masculine part saying, okay,
we got to do things differently.
It's the feminine part that hasto do the same, and my
(26:55):
perception, my observation, isthat this balance is created by
both sides and we need on bothsides something to happen to
really create a balance.
And that's why I call my bookalso Barbie Meets Oppenheimer,
because it's the Barbie movie,which I think is a really clever
movie in that way, aboutpatriarchy, matriarchy and
Oppenheimer, where it's aboutquantum physics.
(27:17):
So what I try to explain inthis book is first, it's about a
young girl, 13-year-old girl,and she's being taught by her
grandfather how you can look atlife.
She's unhappy and a lot ofthings are against her in her
life and he teaches her how youcan discover to make that change
, how you can really change yourworld and then the world in a
(27:38):
way that things really becomethe opposite of what you thought
they were, and by doing so heteaches us about quantum physics
, like really in a nutshell, toget it explained.
So that's the Oppenheimeraspect, because in the end the
world becomes a differentplayground, a different way of
interacting with it.
It's not the world coming atyou and all its massiveness and
everything that's set out instone and everything is
(28:01):
unchangeable.
It becomes an interaction anddance with everything outside
there.
Unchangeable.
It becomes an interaction anddance with everything outside
there and by making that dance,this girl transcends and she
even changes her grandfatherbecause and that's the masculine
aspect she changes him in whathe, he says, but he doesn't walk
his talk, and I think that isboth a nice metaphor as well as,
for me, um, a kind of a uhcalling to, yeah, women,
(28:23):
feminine energy to say there'sgot to change something.
And if you profess sisterhoodbut not living up to it, that's
my observation we got to changesome things to make this, to
make this, to really get to aworld where everything is
balanced, and that's that meanschanging some system as well.
So it's an underlying level inthe story, but it's part of it.
(28:45):
So that's what's part of my, Ithink, life and souls mission is
about.
I want to contribute to abalanced world where, uh, things
are different.
One thing to say about that.
I'll stop everything.
Our world, in current world, inconflicts, is created on a
masculine level where there isaction, reaction, revenge and
another revenge on, if you lookat conflicts that are violent
(29:07):
conflicts, wars and all theassaults going on in the world.
If we want to solve this, likeAysen said, you cannot solve it
on the level where it wascreated.
You need a higher level, and Ithink, I feel, that this higher
level, overarching energy isfeminine, because there are
different connections in thatway that they can bring and
(29:28):
relate to and overcome theconflicts that we have created
and which we are so firm upon.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
That's cool, well, and, I think, a really good job
of explaining.
I mean, the Barbara meetsOppenheimer that is a phrase
that I mean just instantlycaptures the essence, I think.
So that's a really gooddescriptor.
I would definitely keep usingthat.
And then, secondly, I like someof what you're saying.
I think a little bit of apolarizing take, which I think
(29:56):
is pretty smart.
I mean not only because it'ssomething you believe, but it
also it's.
You've probably heard of thethree-star book with no
three-star reviews.
It's a Perry Marshall marketingconcept, and so he talks about
how there's some books that arereally polarizing and it's like
a three-star on Amazon, butreally there's no three-star
(30:20):
reviews.
It's five stars from the peoplewho absolutely love it.
And then it's then arguing inthe comments about why the other
person is wrong, which drives alot of book sales.
And so I think I think a lot ofpeople are afraid to take a
polarizing stance and so theywater it down and they have a
vanilla book.
Well then, who cares?
(30:41):
No one, and so I, I like, Ilike the approach you're taking
there.
No one, and so I like theapproach you're taking there.
Last question I'll ask is whatwould be your parting piece of
advice for someone who's in yourshoes from years ago, thinking
about writing their first book,or someone who's thinking about
working with us atselfpublishcom.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
I always like to say it's never too late to start
something, it's never late tochange something, and please do
it, because if you havesomething in you that you want
to bring out to the world, do it, because that's what the world
needs.
The world wants to see you inyour pure message.
And I like your phrase aboutthe three stars, about the
polarization, about be your trueself in that way, and if that
(31:24):
creates a lot of critic as wellas praise, then that's wonderful
, it's.
It's, yeah, better than thebland three-star average.
Get the five ones and acceptthe one stars.
That's wonderful, I like.
So.
I like that comment on that.
So, um, anyone doing thinkingabout doing this, please do it,
because the world you're doingthe world of this service not
not to express your, yourdeepest feelings or your or your
(31:46):
deepest fantasies or yourdeepest stories or your deepest
wisdom.
Please get it out there, butrealize it's sometimes a bit of
a tough journey, but that makesit interesting.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Hey guys, the book is called the Girl who Changed the
World.
Check it out.
Where would you like to sendpeople, kind of, as we wrap up
here?
Where's the best place for themto go to check out the book?
Learn more about you, whatyou're up to just on amazon.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Amazon is really, really the friend here all right
, check it out, guys.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
The girl who changed the world, michael, appreciate
it.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Thank you, chandler thank you very much.
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