June 6, 2024 • 30 mins
In this episode, Jennifer Ernst, CEO of Tivic Health Systems, Inc., discusses how their innovative bioelectronic medicine is transforming sinus and nasal inflammation treatment with their ClearUP device. Learn about the journey of this FDA-approved, consumer-acclaimed Healthtech product and its impact on wellness.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:00):
Afternoon and welcome to the podcast Startup to Stock
(00:02):
Exchange.
Today's guest, I think, is veryinteresting and we're going to
hear some nuggets of data that Ithink are not commonly found
when we're dealing with thisparticular segment of the
industry.
And I'm leaving it a little bitvague because I want to let our
guest get into some of thedetails, but really it's around
(00:24):
innovation.
And very often when I have theseinterviews with different CEOs,
executives, publicly tradedcompanies, not all the time, but
sometimes it's hard for theaudience to relate because it's
something that's biotech orpharma, or it's in development.
That's not the case today inthat, uh, you'll hear about a
tangible physical way to helppeople, which I think everybody
(00:47):
will find very interesting.
So with that, I'd like towelcome Jennifer Ernst.
She's the CEO of a companycalled Tivic Health Systems, and
they are listed on the NASDAQExchange under the ticker symbol
T I V C.
Jennifer, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Thank you, Seth.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So, you know, I'm dropping these, uh, these little
hints about what the product isand the industry that you're in,
but if you don't mind, give us ashort overview about what Tivic
is, and then we'll, we'll, we'llbacktrack into other topics.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Okay, absolutely.
Um, so to make, as youindicated, we are commercial
stage with health technology.
Um, we're part of a segmentcalled bio electronic medicine
and it's a mouthful.
But what it means is that we're,we are using the electrical
signals of the body in the sameway that drugs, pharmaceutical
(01:39):
industry uses chemicals.
Um, so think about the body, ifwe think about it.
Writ large, um, it is anelectrochemical system and
pharmaceutical products to usechemical interventions in order
to create benefits for theperson, um, changes in the
health system.
So that's what we're doing withelectrical signals.
(02:00):
And, um, where we'reparticularly positioned is in a
portion of non invasive.
Um, so this,
Speaker (02:08):
you
Speaker 3 (02:08):
know, if we go back and think electrical, electrical
therapies.
I think most everyone isfamiliar with a pacemaker at
this point.
Put inside the body, attach itto the heart, it fires off the
hearts.
Uh, the nerves that manage themuscles of the heart.
Um, same thing, we have deepbrain stimulators.
So these are some of the earlyadvance of using electrical
(02:28):
stimulus in a medicalapplication.
As the industry has movedforward, uh, we're getting finer
and finer tuned granularityabout how do we fire specific
fibers, specific signals, uh,and where TIVIC is particularly
positioned has been in doingthat without having to put
anything inside the body.
(02:50):
So this is a growing wave is theuse of non invasive technology.
Um, it's forecast to be one ofthe highest growth areas of
neuromodulation is in using noninvasive.
technologies.
So before we jump into talkingabout what we have in the market
today, one of the reasons whythis idea of taking, taking that
(03:10):
kind of science that's behindthe pacemaker or deep brain
stimulator or those type oftechnology fields and being able
to bring them into therapeuticareas where you really don't
want to have to do surgery, toget the benefit.
Speaker (03:24):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Bringing them into this non invasive means you're
breaking wide open theapplication space that we have
available to us to be able todeploy neuromodulation or
bioelectronic solutions.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Okay, you know, I'm not in that field.
I'm with you so far.
Very well, very well explainedthus far, but you're still
leaving us on the edge of ourseats in terms of what it is
that you are for me, you know,the product that's actually
being offered.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Okay, so, uh, the commercial product we have in
market today is a treatment forsinus.
And yes, I said sinus, likeallergies, sinus congestion,
sinus pain, sinus pressure.
Um, think of allergies, chronicsinusitis, um, non invasive,
non, non allergenicrhinosinusitis.
(04:13):
Now we're starting to get intothe deep medical terms, but all
of these conditions that areassociated basically with
inflammation of the tissuesinside of our sinus passages in
our head.
Speaker (04:23):
Um,
Speaker 3 (04:24):
these are conditions that affect one out of five U.
S.
Adults.
Um, it's growing in prevalenceas allergy seasons are getting
worse and worse.
The chronic conditions arebecoming more and more prevalent
associated with the allergicresponse inside the passages.
So what we developed is a smallhandheld device in which you
(04:45):
place the tip on the skin thatgoes.
I'm trying to think of how to,how to describe this, uh,
without, without an image, butit looks like a little pear
shaped device about the size ofa business card.
You use it for treating theoutside of the sinus passages.
So for typical sinus treatmentsare you take a drug, you flush
your nose with salt water, uh,you spray something up your
(05:07):
nose.
We don't do any of that.
There's no drugs involved, andit is an FDA approved product,
so we have an FDA approval forrelief of congestion.
regardless of what causes thecongestion.
Um, and we also have, uh, gonethrough a five, 10 K process
with the FDA for treatment ofsinus pain.
(05:28):
Uh, the product does also have aCE mark, although we're not
currently availableinternationally, we're currently
selling only in the U S.
Um, this is a, completely drugfree solution for delivering
relief of chronic sinusconditions.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And so just for our listeners, um, you know, if I
could paint the picture of what,what I'm looking at is that, you
know, it, it looks like it's thesize of a traditional, like you
said, it's the size of abusiness card.
It fits in the palm of yourhand.
Um, I, to be completely honest,Jennifer, the first time you and
I spoke and I saw it, I thoughtit was some sort of nasal spray.
That's how small it is.
Um, And you know, just drop itin your pocket.
(06:07):
And so if you would, how,because it's non invasive, so
how does one use it?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So the instructions to use are to take it and apply
the tip of the device to thecheek.
As I said, like think of, thinkof it looks a little like a
spray, but instead of a spray,you put the tip on your cheek
and then you glide it along thecheekbone, along the nose area
and up under the brow around thesinus passages.
Um, We're activating a processthat's associated with, it's
(06:36):
associated with the fight orflight type responses.
Um, two things that are goingon.
One is, if there's swelling inthe tissue and there's pain
present, there's a nerve thatcarries the pain signals to the
brain, but there's also a set ofnerves that control the
contraction.
These are called the sympatheticnerves, and they control the
contraction of the bloodvessels.
(06:58):
The frequencies we use in ourdevice have been showing to
create the production ofnorepinephrine.
Um, this is a, this is avasoconstrictor.
It's a, causes blood vessels toconstrict.
And when you can constrict bloodvessels, then you get a
reduction in tissue size.
You start to get, uh, over time,you can reduce the substances
(07:19):
that come out of the blood andgo into the tissue and actually
cause the inflammation to beginwith.
Um, so our clinical studies,we've shown that three out of
four people will get relief withthe first time they use it.
Um, for about a fourth of ourusers, it's like, uh, pow up
front.
It's a, it's a pronounceddifference within 10 minutes of
(07:40):
use.
Um, for 75%, they get at least anoticeable difference, a
meaningful, clinicallymeaningful benefit within the
first 10 minutes after they useit.
Um, the really exciting part forme was when we ran the
longitudinal studies and we sawthat this benefit continued to
improve with time because the,the drug solutions when we take
(08:03):
a drug, you can use a nasalspray, and those you really
shouldn't use if you'rethinking, you know, something
like an afferent.
Um, you really shouldn't usethat.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
That's exactly what I'm thinking about, by the way.
And I won't say which of mykids, but like sometimes, I
don't want to say they'readdicting, but like there was
one time I took her and thedoctor was like, How long have
you been using this?
And she's like, wow, like fiveweeks.
I was like, no, you cannot useit.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Oh, I mean,
Speaker 2 (08:28):
one day, two days, three
Speaker 3 (08:30):
days, you're supposed to be off of it because it
causes rebound.
It makes the effects worse.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That's what he said.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, so yeah, so that's
Speaker 3 (08:38):
a vicious cycle with that, with, uh, that particular
drug compound and then thelonger term use.
You know, in terms of longerterm use cases, most of these
drugs are only approved for usefor seven days, then if, you
know, then you should be off ofthem.
Speaker (08:53):
Um,
Speaker 3 (08:53):
in the case of our FDA approvals, our FDA
clearances, these, there's nolimitation on the number of
times per day to use it.
You can use it on an ongoingbasis for as long as you need,
um, and this is one of thethings that's true of a lot of
the neurotech, a lot of theseneural solutions, because
you're, you're stimulating justfor very brief periods of time
(09:16):
to activate a response that thencontinues to deliver benefit
after it's been activated, youdon't have these kind of
profound side effects that youget with systemic
pharmaceuticals.
If I take something that's avasoconstrictor, it's
constricting every, every bloodvessel in your body.
We're just doing something verylocally in the sinus passages to
(09:38):
help relieve that localizedsymptom issue.
Um, so great safety profiles,very strong safety profiles.
Um, in the, in the clinicaltrials, 82 percent of the
participants in the trialspreferred it to their current
treatment and the efficacy andthe longitudinal and the longer
(09:58):
term use is very very much onpar with the the best of best of
breed in the over the counterproducts.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Can I just interrupt to ask before before we get into
sort of like the background howyou got here or how the company
approached the the place thatit's at so for all the listeners
with the FDA approval in placeum this is not in development
this is not a will be this isout On the market, where do
people, are you selling itdirect to consumer through,
(10:28):
through, you know, allergists,what's the, um, the mode of
getting it out to the masses,
Speaker 3 (10:32):
right?
So you can go today, search forclear up sinus and you will see
it on our website.
and clear up, like clear up yoursinuses.
So clear up sinus.
You will find it on Amazon.
You'll find it on our, on ourwebsite.
Um, more recently we've signedagreements.
We've signed distributionagreements with McKesson with
(10:53):
Amerisource Bergen or nowSankora.
Um, and we have been regularlyavailable on the, um, FSA and
HSA stores.
So the product is also approvedfor FSA and HSA usage.
So if you prefer to use that.
Use your HSA funds.
Um, the FSA and HSA store bothcarry clear up as a available
(11:15):
today.
Yes, you can.
You can absolutely go online andorder today.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Now let me let me ask you this Jennifer, just in terms
of the way that you have spokenfor the first few minutes.
Um, I'd be convinced your, yourpast life is either.
You know, a doctor, a PhD in,uh, in health, where, where,
what's your background?
How did, how did you come to,um, the seat of CEO that you're
in right now?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, I fake it.
Well, I've often been mistakenfor a lawyer, an engineer, a
doctor.
Um, no, um, my actual backgroundis in.
My original part of my careerwas at Xerox PARC, which is a
very advanced researchlaboratory.
Most of the world knows it forhaving invented, been the, been
(12:00):
the home of a lot of our moderncomputing, home of the graphical
user interface, laser printing,mouse, et cetera.
Um, I was in roles where we weretaking the advanced research and
translating it into eithertrying to communicate it to the
mere mortals of the world, um,outside of the scientific field
and by and trying to, um, Spenteight years in communication,
(12:23):
then I then spent my career withPark on developing strategic
partnerships.
So go to market strategies,working with partners outside of
our research ecosystem to beable to take the technologies,
not necessarily into Xerox, butinto other applications through
spin outs, strategic alliances,licensing programs, um, that
(12:43):
gave me a lot of versatility.
It's a very unique backgroundactually to bring to this seat
because it gave me a lot ofversatility across industries.
Um, my first company that I didas a full scale commit, we're
going to give this a give, um,at PARC I could do a lot of
things like build departments,build functions, build
partnerships, but I couldn'tbuild a company inside PARC.
(13:05):
So, um, in 2011 I joined asocial a company that was a
Norwegian company that wasinvolved with Park and taking
some technology out of the lab.
Um, we were eight people on thepublic market in Norway.
So that was my first experiencewith,
Speaker (13:23):
um,
Speaker 3 (13:23):
doing a startup on the public market.
Um, took that one from Osloaccess uplisted to Bush, um,
uplisted in the U S to get adollar denominated share, took
it from eight people to a halfbillion market cap in about five
years time.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Incredible.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So that was, that was quite an experience.
Unfortunately, I didn't realizeit was unusual at the time.
I thought they just all workthat way.
So we'd like to
Speaker 2 (13:47):
think that, but,
Speaker 3 (13:49):
um, so my, in 2016 was when 2015, 2016 was when I
was introduced to the field ofbioelectronic medicine.
Um, and I'd come across, thisunusual technology.
I mean, it's kind of a friend ofa friend situation.
And it wasn't just the first, itwasn't just the fact of, okay,
this is an interestingapplication of a neurotech.
(14:11):
And I began really educatingmyself on the field.
Um, but also, also the fact thatthis was just the burgeoning,
you could see that this was justthe tiniest tip of the iceberg
of what is possible to do onceyou can harness.
The usability of a device andthe electrical signaling of the
(14:31):
body, um, growing field of arearight now is the vagus nerve
stimulation in which we'll getinto talking about later.
But it's one of the deeper areasin the medical field where
these, you know, these systems.
Penetrate every major organ inthe body clear up very localized
solution.
(14:52):
We were able to get the We wereable to get the tech very
efficiently to market Took meabout three years from starting
the company to having a medicalproduct in market And then I
think
Speaker 2 (15:03):
that's important.
I think that's important to honein on in other words everybody
often sees the celebrations.
They see the FDA approval.
They see the ringing of thestock exchange bell, which we'll
talk about in a minute.
And, and we just assume thatit's like an overnight success,
but here it sounds like it was amulti year overnight success
until you got it to where itneeded to be.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Um, I still won't claim we've gotten it where it
needs to be, never where youreally want to be.
Um, but yes, you're right.
There, there's a lot of hardwork.
Um, this wasn't an unusual casewhere we actually delivered in
three years from founding to acommercial medical product or an
FDA approved medical product.
(15:45):
And then we launched a fewmonths after that.
So I think it actually did getit.
Now, if I remember correctly, Ido September 16th.
It was three years to the datefrom the date we founded the
company to the date we launched.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Really?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Literally.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And what's, what's also fascinating is that, you
know, so often when, when Ispeak to CEOs, they, they start
these companies to Meet a needthat they had.
So, you know, in in your case,it's not like you had a horrible
allergies as a kid and you vowedto someday find the solution.
(16:24):
And here it is.
Um, you you saw this product.
Um, you and your team recognizethe application capability.
Is it, how far, how far of a,um, vast difference was it from
the initial idea slash prototypeto what it looks like today?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Oh my God.
Uh, the thing that we, the thingI first saw, it looked like a
rectal thermometer for a cow.
I mean,
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Oh, that's, that's a great image.
Okay.
It was
Speaker 3 (16:51):
horrible.
It was ugly.
Uh, in fact, my family thought Iwas crazy.
Cause that is one of thesequestions of like, as an
entrepreneur, you really have tobe able to see beyond.
Okay.
All it is, is it's electronicsand plastic.
Those can be turned into anykind of shape.
We can manage those.
We can do the programming tomake it more effective, to make
it a little bit more elegant touse.
(17:12):
But yeah, it was a, that was anugly SOB.
And so when, you know, goingthrough usability design, um, I
did have some background I wasable to bring into that from my
past experience to going throughthe usability, the design
renderings, um, and turning itinto something, um, You know, at
(17:33):
this point feels veryAppalachian, very, very sleek,
right?
Also created a lot ofintellectual property in doing
so.
And, um, we You know, sometimesyou don't know exactly that you
have something totally unique.
Um, we developed a way to locatethe nerve fibers under the,
(17:54):
nerve fibers and blood vessel,under the skin in order to guide
a user.
So the user would be able tolocate where they need for
treatment points.
And then I started showing thisaround inside of the neurotech
community and nobody had everseen or heard of anything that
helped you like actually throughthe skin, get that right.
Non
Speaker 2 (18:11):
invasive is incredible.
Sure.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
So, so that was, um, yeah, so we were able to develop
intellectual property aroundeverything that makes this
particular device easy to use,comfortable, uh, effective.
You know, patent the treatmentprotocols, the pathways.
Um, so this space is a nice openspace, even though there are
technologies out there.
Speaker (18:34):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
There's so much white space out around the
bioelectronic field right now.
It was one of the things thatgot me very excited.
It's considering that great.
We've got a first product thatlooked like a pretty
straightforward path to market.
We were able to do it in threeyears, which is extremely
unusual in normal time fordevices, about seven.
Um, When
Speaker 2 (18:56):
you talk about that three year.
Um, window at what point did youdecide then that you wanted to,
um, list on, on an exchange atsome point after that three year
period, or was it during afterit was a public in, in 2021.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
So, if you remember in 2020, there was this minor
thing that happened in theworld.
Um, I
Speaker 2 (19:19):
do recall vaguely.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yes.
Um, so, uh, we have been largelyfunded by angels and doctors.
Raised about 13 million inprivate finance and private
financing through angels anddoctors.
Um, that wasn't going to give usthe lift we needed, but
pocketbooks in 2020, I startedmy a round in February, 2020.
(19:43):
So pocketbooks were closed
Speaker (19:45):
at that moment
Speaker 3 (19:46):
in time.
If, you know, everybody washolding capital to see.
not knowing whether this wasgoing to be a six month, I mean,
I remember the day that ouroffice is closed and said, we'll
be opening in three weeks.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Right.
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I think that, you know, that, so that timeframe,
um, so it was a carefullyconsidered decision.
Did we think we had enough to beable to go onto the public
market?
Um, I'd had the experience withgrowing a company on the public
market before.
So we made the choice that, um,Yeah, we kind of were faced with
(20:19):
a no financing in the privatemarket situation, or the ability
to finance a company and get usoff the ground in the, in the
commercial, in the publicmarket.
It's not for the faint of heart.
It's not what I would recommendfor everyone.
That was
Speaker 2 (20:35):
one of my next questions that I, that I
actually like to often ask theYou know, CEOs are in your
position, especially Nasdaq.
Um, on the Nasdaq.
How do you find that dual hatthat you wear right?
Because you still have to runthe business element of it on on
a full scale, if not with evenmore pressures, but also
(20:55):
balancing that other full timejob of being a public company,
communicating with shareholders,dealing with regulation and
compliance.
How have you found that thatthat role?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Um, I've been very fortunate.
I knew when we were going to thepublic market what that was
going to be like, because I'dhad the experience before with
it, so I've been very fortunateto be able to build a support
structure inside the team thatI'm not running.
Right now I am, but in most daysI'm not running the like day to
day.
(21:29):
How many chargers do we havekinds of conversations and how
many production runs to putthrough in this week?
Um, so having a, having a strongteam in place was essential
because then really my focus canbe on, um, more strategic issues
about.
what beyond ClearUp can we bedoing?
Where, where can we put someanchors in that may have a
(21:53):
stronger vector for valuecreation?
Um, so I think ClearUp is agreat product, but really some
of the things we're putting inplace now are going to be more
important for building, buildingthe longterm value of the
company.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
And, and I'm curious, what was it like that day of the
actual listing on NASDAQ?
And I mean, I know you had, youhad previous experience on the
foreign markets, but, um, youknow, NASDAQ is to itself.
What was it like, you know, thatfirst day?
For any, for any that areaspiring to get there at one
point, whether they know it'sgood for them or not, what was
(22:27):
it
Speaker 3 (22:27):
like?
I mean, the aspiration to getthere is good.
I, to do it when you've got areally nice, strong 50 million
of revenue under your belt,that's a good time to go.
Um, you know, there's, there's aplace and time to take a company
to a public market.
And in the middle of an economiccrisis, one month before the
biotech crash might not havebeen our best timing.
(22:48):
Having said all that.
Your question was, what's itlike that first moment?
And there's, there's this wordof liminal that somebody
introduced me to.
Um, it's just that moment ofanticipation, that moment when a
ring is spinning and you don'tknow if it's going to fall or
(23:10):
where the wind is not yetstarted.
I mean, it's just this, Momentwhere all things are possible
and anticipation is just therelike the share hasn't traded
that moment before anything hashappened and you know, you're
(23:32):
going to see your first tradesome point.
And when is that going tohappen?
And is it going to happen in asplit second?
Um, Now I think back and go, ohmy God, yeah, now we have,
within our window of time on thepublic market, we not only have
the moment where we startedtrading, but we also had two
days where we were the highesttraded stock on the New York
(23:54):
NASDAQ.
One day we did almost a halfbillion in trades.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
That's
Speaker (24:02):
incredible.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Jennifer, I've probably interviewed 75, you
know, at least 75 CEOs ofpublicly traded companies.
To your credit, I don't thinkI've ever heard anybody explain
it in such a poetic type of waythat would certainly motivate
anybody that is looking forwardto that to, uh, to experience it
(24:25):
in that way that you justdescribed.
So I appreciate that.
That's really
Speaker 3 (24:30):
There was this point where it was also a little bit
anticlimactic because we weren'tone of the companies that got to
do the bell ringing.
They were so backlogged.
We never really got to do it.
Yeah, I
Speaker 2 (24:37):
remember that.
Hundreds of companies werebehind on that schedule.
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
And so I bought for our teams a bunch of little
bells and had us ring overliterally over Zoom.
We're ringing our bells.
Um, I mean, it was just
Speaker 2 (24:52):
a
Speaker 3 (24:53):
crazy, crazy, crazy kind of experience at the same
time, a little bit like.
Oh, well, that was a little outof tech.
Come back to cook and get backto work.
But I think it's not unlike thatfor anyone who is coming onto
the market.
It's a lot of buildup.
It's a lot of work to get there.
You need to have your systems inplace.
You need to really be prepared.
Um, there's that moment when youdon't know what's going to
(25:15):
happen and you sit that splitsecond of the first day of
trading that will never happenever again.
Um, and then you got to get backto running the business cause
thanks.
That was all fun, but.
Now I've got the pressure.
That's when the hard
Speaker 2 (25:29):
work begins.
I know.
Um, well, I definitely want tobe cognizant of your time.
But, but let me ask you as we,uh, as we wrap up.
Um, you know, it sounds like theneurotech that you are working
on and have successfully beenable to roll out.
Are there other applicationsthat you're anticipating that
(25:51):
you can share with us?
Um, other, other products or,or, or broader direction that
you expect to be able to, uh, toroll out in the near future?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Absolutely.
So we do have, um, we do have aclinical trial underway for the
same product family fortreatment of, uh, after
reconstructive surgery forsinuses and for nasal or facial
reconstructive surgery.
So that is going with MountSinai right now, and it's an
opportunity to expand theapplication space for the clear
up technology as it stands.
(26:23):
Um, the other one that is veryexciting for the company is I
mentioned earlier, the Vegasnerve.
Um, the vagus nerve is a nervethat connects the brain, the
brainstem to the gut, and ittouches every single major organ
in between.
Um, it's a very high valuetarget for the medical, for
medical applications.
(26:43):
And we have recently announced,um, some very important data.
It's coming out of the FeinsteinInstitute, uh, the Feinstein
Institute for BioelectronicMedicine, which is considered
among the world leaders, if notthe world leader founded by the
guy that pioneered the field.
Um, Our data is showing resultsequivalent that we're getting
(27:04):
with a VNS stimulation approach,um, better results than what
we've ever been seeing with noninvasive treatments, in terms of
markers in the brain activity,markers in heart activity, and,
um, markers in the autonomicnervous system, so the
immunology functions.
(27:25):
That particular approach is alsoquite novel.
We were able to start developingintellectual property around a
new way of hitting the vagusnerve, of targeting the vagus
nerve, and the type of medicalapplications we are looking at
there are things like cardiacdisease, where there are, you
know, arrhythmia, Decreasingmorbidity and cardiovascular
(27:47):
disease decreasing.
Um, and also because of thebrain markers, we've gotten very
much a viable alternative fortreatment of depression and for
treatment of epilepsy.
Um, alternatives to an implant.
So there's a company leaveanother that's.
2.
9 billion market cap, makingmoney on an implanted
(28:10):
technology, uh, that they go andthey hook it up to the vagus
nerve.
And we're showing signals from anon invasive technology that is
very, that is very similar interms of the performance
parameters.
And that's just with our firsttrial out of the gate.
So before we've even done theoptimization studies, we've been
able to show that a non invasivetechnology can be as powerful in
changing brain function andheart function as an implant
(28:33):
can.
Thank you.
That's when things start to getvery, very serious, uh, for a
truly valuable company.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Well, I would, I would say that what you're doing
now is very valuable to, um, alot of people, but some of the,
um, verticals that you'retouching on, cardiac and
epilepsy and, and that's, that'snext level stuff.
So, um, I hope.
That, uh, you will join us inhowever long that is six months
from now, nine months from now,12 months from now and give us
(29:07):
an update on some of theexciting developments because I
know everybody's going to wantto hear about that.
And in the interim.
Um, where is the best place thatpeople can learn more about the
company?
What's the company website?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Um, the company website is TivicHealth.
com.
So think of the book, T I V I C,TivicHealth.
com.
You'll find it just searchingfor Tivic, T I V I C, um.
And we do have our investorsection of the website to be
able to learn more there, aswell as you'll be able to find
the clear up the clear upproduct on our website, as well
(29:43):
as, as I said, on Amazon and afew other major channels.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Fantastic.
Well, um, I'm excited that Ishouldn't need it, but the next
time I do, I'm not going to CVSto get the nasal spray anymore.
I'm going to be getting theclear up.
Um, and, uh, really thank youfor your time.
Thank you for sharing thisknowledge, this experience, uh,
where you're at, where thecompany is going and, uh, we
appreciate it.
And, uh, thanks again.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Thanks for the opportunity.
Afternoon and welcome to the podcast Startup to Stock
(00:02):
Exchange.
Today's guest, I think, is veryinteresting and we're going to
hear some nuggets of data that Ithink are not commonly found
when we're dealing with thisparticular segment of the
industry.
And I'm leaving it a little bitvague because I want to let our
guest get into some of thedetails, but really it's around
(00:24):
innovation.
And very often when I have theseinterviews with different CEOs,
executives, publicly tradedcompanies, not all the time, but
sometimes it's hard for theaudience to relate because it's
something that's biotech orpharma, or it's in development.
That's not the case today inthat, uh, you'll hear about a
tangible physical way to helppeople, which I think everybody
(00:47):
will find very interesting.
So with that, I'd like towelcome Jennifer Ernst.
She's the CEO of a companycalled Tivic Health Systems, and
they are listed on the NASDAQExchange under the ticker symbol
T I V C.
Jennifer, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Thank you, Seth.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So, you know, I'm dropping these, uh, these little
hints about what the product isand the industry that you're in,
but if you don't mind, give us ashort overview about what Tivic
is, and then we'll, we'll, we'llbacktrack into other topics.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Okay, absolutely.
Um, so to make, as youindicated, we are commercial
stage with health technology.
Um, we're part of a segmentcalled bio electronic medicine
and it's a mouthful.
But what it means is that we're,we are using the electrical
signals of the body in the sameway that drugs, pharmaceutical
(01:39):
industry uses chemicals.
Um, so think about the body, ifwe think about it.
Writ large, um, it is anelectrochemical system and
pharmaceutical products to usechemical interventions in order
to create benefits for theperson, um, changes in the
health system.
So that's what we're doing withelectrical signals.
(02:00):
And, um, where we'reparticularly positioned is in a
portion of non invasive.
Um, so this,
Speaker (02:08):
you
Speaker 3 (02:08):
know, if we go back and think electrical, electrical
therapies.
I think most everyone isfamiliar with a pacemaker at
this point.
Put inside the body, attach itto the heart, it fires off the
hearts.
Uh, the nerves that manage themuscles of the heart.
Um, same thing, we have deepbrain stimulators.
So these are some of the earlyadvance of using electrical
(02:28):
stimulus in a medicalapplication.
As the industry has movedforward, uh, we're getting finer
and finer tuned granularityabout how do we fire specific
fibers, specific signals, uh,and where TIVIC is particularly
positioned has been in doingthat without having to put
anything inside the body.
(02:50):
So this is a growing wave is theuse of non invasive technology.
Um, it's forecast to be one ofthe highest growth areas of
neuromodulation is in using noninvasive.
technologies.
So before we jump into talkingabout what we have in the market
today, one of the reasons whythis idea of taking, taking that
(03:10):
kind of science that's behindthe pacemaker or deep brain
stimulator or those type oftechnology fields and being able
to bring them into therapeuticareas where you really don't
want to have to do surgery, toget the benefit.
Speaker (03:24):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Bringing them into this non invasive means you're
breaking wide open theapplication space that we have
available to us to be able todeploy neuromodulation or
bioelectronic solutions.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Okay, you know, I'm not in that field.
I'm with you so far.
Very well, very well explainedthus far, but you're still
leaving us on the edge of ourseats in terms of what it is
that you are for me, you know,the product that's actually
being offered.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Okay, so, uh, the commercial product we have in
market today is a treatment forsinus.
And yes, I said sinus, likeallergies, sinus congestion,
sinus pain, sinus pressure.
Um, think of allergies, chronicsinusitis, um, non invasive,
non, non allergenicrhinosinusitis.
(04:13):
Now we're starting to get intothe deep medical terms, but all
of these conditions that areassociated basically with
inflammation of the tissuesinside of our sinus passages in
our head.
Speaker (04:23):
Um,
Speaker 3 (04:24):
these are conditions that affect one out of five U.
S.
Adults.
Um, it's growing in prevalenceas allergy seasons are getting
worse and worse.
The chronic conditions arebecoming more and more prevalent
associated with the allergicresponse inside the passages.
So what we developed is a smallhandheld device in which you
(04:45):
place the tip on the skin thatgoes.
I'm trying to think of how to,how to describe this, uh,
without, without an image, butit looks like a little pear
shaped device about the size ofa business card.
You use it for treating theoutside of the sinus passages.
So for typical sinus treatmentsare you take a drug, you flush
your nose with salt water, uh,you spray something up your
(05:07):
nose.
We don't do any of that.
There's no drugs involved, andit is an FDA approved product,
so we have an FDA approval forrelief of congestion.
regardless of what causes thecongestion.
Um, and we also have, uh, gonethrough a five, 10 K process
with the FDA for treatment ofsinus pain.
(05:28):
Uh, the product does also have aCE mark, although we're not
currently availableinternationally, we're currently
selling only in the U S.
Um, this is a, completely drugfree solution for delivering
relief of chronic sinusconditions.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And so just for our listeners, um, you know, if I
could paint the picture of what,what I'm looking at is that, you
know, it, it looks like it's thesize of a traditional, like you
said, it's the size of abusiness card.
It fits in the palm of yourhand.
Um, I, to be completely honest,Jennifer, the first time you and
I spoke and I saw it, I thoughtit was some sort of nasal spray.
That's how small it is.
Um, And you know, just drop itin your pocket.
(06:07):
And so if you would, how,because it's non invasive, so
how does one use it?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So the instructions to use are to take it and apply
the tip of the device to thecheek.
As I said, like think of, thinkof it looks a little like a
spray, but instead of a spray,you put the tip on your cheek
and then you glide it along thecheekbone, along the nose area
and up under the brow around thesinus passages.
Um, We're activating a processthat's associated with, it's
(06:36):
associated with the fight orflight type responses.
Um, two things that are goingon.
One is, if there's swelling inthe tissue and there's pain
present, there's a nerve thatcarries the pain signals to the
brain, but there's also a set ofnerves that control the
contraction.
These are called the sympatheticnerves, and they control the
contraction of the bloodvessels.
(06:58):
The frequencies we use in ourdevice have been showing to
create the production ofnorepinephrine.
Um, this is a, this is avasoconstrictor.
It's a, causes blood vessels toconstrict.
And when you can constrict bloodvessels, then you get a
reduction in tissue size.
You start to get, uh, over time,you can reduce the substances
(07:19):
that come out of the blood andgo into the tissue and actually
cause the inflammation to beginwith.
Um, so our clinical studies,we've shown that three out of
four people will get relief withthe first time they use it.
Um, for about a fourth of ourusers, it's like, uh, pow up
front.
It's a, it's a pronounceddifference within 10 minutes of
(07:40):
use.
Um, for 75%, they get at least anoticeable difference, a
meaningful, clinicallymeaningful benefit within the
first 10 minutes after they useit.
Um, the really exciting part forme was when we ran the
longitudinal studies and we sawthat this benefit continued to
improve with time because the,the drug solutions when we take
(08:03):
a drug, you can use a nasalspray, and those you really
shouldn't use if you'rethinking, you know, something
like an afferent.
Um, you really shouldn't usethat.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
That's exactly what I'm thinking about, by the way.
And I won't say which of mykids, but like sometimes, I
don't want to say they'readdicting, but like there was
one time I took her and thedoctor was like, How long have
you been using this?
And she's like, wow, like fiveweeks.
I was like, no, you cannot useit.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Oh, I mean,
Speaker 2 (08:28):
one day, two days, three
Speaker 3 (08:30):
days, you're supposed to be off of it because it
causes rebound.
It makes the effects worse.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That's what he said.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, so yeah, so that's
Speaker 3 (08:38):
a vicious cycle with that, with, uh, that particular
drug compound and then thelonger term use.
You know, in terms of longerterm use cases, most of these
drugs are only approved for usefor seven days, then if, you
know, then you should be off ofthem.
Speaker (08:53):
Um,
Speaker 3 (08:53):
in the case of our FDA approvals, our FDA
clearances, these, there's nolimitation on the number of
times per day to use it.
You can use it on an ongoingbasis for as long as you need,
um, and this is one of thethings that's true of a lot of
the neurotech, a lot of theseneural solutions, because
you're, you're stimulating justfor very brief periods of time
(09:16):
to activate a response that thencontinues to deliver benefit
after it's been activated, youdon't have these kind of
profound side effects that youget with systemic
pharmaceuticals.
If I take something that's avasoconstrictor, it's
constricting every, every bloodvessel in your body.
We're just doing something verylocally in the sinus passages to
(09:38):
help relieve that localizedsymptom issue.
Um, so great safety profiles,very strong safety profiles.
Um, in the, in the clinicaltrials, 82 percent of the
participants in the trialspreferred it to their current
treatment and the efficacy andthe longitudinal and the longer
(09:58):
term use is very very much onpar with the the best of best of
breed in the over the counterproducts.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Can I just interrupt to ask before before we get into
sort of like the background howyou got here or how the company
approached the the place thatit's at so for all the listeners
with the FDA approval in placeum this is not in development
this is not a will be this isout On the market, where do
people, are you selling itdirect to consumer through,
(10:28):
through, you know, allergists,what's the, um, the mode of
getting it out to the masses,
Speaker 3 (10:32):
right?
So you can go today, search forclear up sinus and you will see
it on our website.
and clear up, like clear up yoursinuses.
So clear up sinus.
You will find it on Amazon.
You'll find it on our, on ourwebsite.
Um, more recently we've signedagreements.
We've signed distributionagreements with McKesson with
(10:53):
Amerisource Bergen or nowSankora.
Um, and we have been regularlyavailable on the, um, FSA and
HSA stores.
So the product is also approvedfor FSA and HSA usage.
So if you prefer to use that.
Use your HSA funds.
Um, the FSA and HSA store bothcarry clear up as a available
(11:15):
today.
Yes, you can.
You can absolutely go online andorder today.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Now let me let me ask you this Jennifer, just in terms
of the way that you have spokenfor the first few minutes.
Um, I'd be convinced your, yourpast life is either.
You know, a doctor, a PhD in,uh, in health, where, where,
what's your background?
How did, how did you come to,um, the seat of CEO that you're
in right now?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, I fake it.
Well, I've often been mistakenfor a lawyer, an engineer, a
doctor.
Um, no, um, my actual backgroundis in.
My original part of my careerwas at Xerox PARC, which is a
very advanced researchlaboratory.
Most of the world knows it forhaving invented, been the, been
(12:00):
the home of a lot of our moderncomputing, home of the graphical
user interface, laser printing,mouse, et cetera.
Um, I was in roles where we weretaking the advanced research and
translating it into eithertrying to communicate it to the
mere mortals of the world, um,outside of the scientific field
and by and trying to, um, Spenteight years in communication,
(12:23):
then I then spent my career withPark on developing strategic
partnerships.
So go to market strategies,working with partners outside of
our research ecosystem to beable to take the technologies,
not necessarily into Xerox, butinto other applications through
spin outs, strategic alliances,licensing programs, um, that
(12:43):
gave me a lot of versatility.
It's a very unique backgroundactually to bring to this seat
because it gave me a lot ofversatility across industries.
Um, my first company that I didas a full scale commit, we're
going to give this a give, um,at PARC I could do a lot of
things like build departments,build functions, build
partnerships, but I couldn'tbuild a company inside PARC.
(13:05):
So, um, in 2011 I joined asocial a company that was a
Norwegian company that wasinvolved with Park and taking
some technology out of the lab.
Um, we were eight people on thepublic market in Norway.
So that was my first experiencewith,
Speaker (13:23):
um,
Speaker 3 (13:23):
doing a startup on the public market.
Um, took that one from Osloaccess uplisted to Bush, um,
uplisted in the U S to get adollar denominated share, took
it from eight people to a halfbillion market cap in about five
years time.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Incredible.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So that was, that was quite an experience.
Unfortunately, I didn't realizeit was unusual at the time.
I thought they just all workthat way.
So we'd like to
Speaker 2 (13:47):
think that, but,
Speaker 3 (13:49):
um, so my, in 2016 was when 2015, 2016 was when I
was introduced to the field ofbioelectronic medicine.
Um, and I'd come across, thisunusual technology.
I mean, it's kind of a friend ofa friend situation.
And it wasn't just the first, itwasn't just the fact of, okay,
this is an interestingapplication of a neurotech.
(14:11):
And I began really educatingmyself on the field.
Um, but also, also the fact thatthis was just the burgeoning,
you could see that this was justthe tiniest tip of the iceberg
of what is possible to do onceyou can harness.
The usability of a device andthe electrical signaling of the
(14:31):
body, um, growing field of arearight now is the vagus nerve
stimulation in which we'll getinto talking about later.
But it's one of the deeper areasin the medical field where
these, you know, these systems.
Penetrate every major organ inthe body clear up very localized
solution.
(14:52):
We were able to get the We wereable to get the tech very
efficiently to market Took meabout three years from starting
the company to having a medicalproduct in market And then I
think
Speaker 2 (15:03):
that's important.
I think that's important to honein on in other words everybody
often sees the celebrations.
They see the FDA approval.
They see the ringing of thestock exchange bell, which we'll
talk about in a minute.
And, and we just assume thatit's like an overnight success,
but here it sounds like it was amulti year overnight success
until you got it to where itneeded to be.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Um, I still won't claim we've gotten it where it
needs to be, never where youreally want to be.
Um, but yes, you're right.
There, there's a lot of hardwork.
Um, this wasn't an unusual casewhere we actually delivered in
three years from founding to acommercial medical product or an
FDA approved medical product.
(15:45):
And then we launched a fewmonths after that.
So I think it actually did getit.
Now, if I remember correctly, Ido September 16th.
It was three years to the datefrom the date we founded the
company to the date we launched.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Really?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Literally.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And what's, what's also fascinating is that, you
know, so often when, when Ispeak to CEOs, they, they start
these companies to Meet a needthat they had.
So, you know, in in your case,it's not like you had a horrible
allergies as a kid and you vowedto someday find the solution.
(16:24):
And here it is.
Um, you you saw this product.
Um, you and your team recognizethe application capability.
Is it, how far, how far of a,um, vast difference was it from
the initial idea slash prototypeto what it looks like today?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Oh my God.
Uh, the thing that we, the thingI first saw, it looked like a
rectal thermometer for a cow.
I mean,
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Oh, that's, that's a great image.
Okay.
It was
Speaker 3 (16:51):
horrible.
It was ugly.
Uh, in fact, my family thought Iwas crazy.
Cause that is one of thesequestions of like, as an
entrepreneur, you really have tobe able to see beyond.
Okay.
All it is, is it's electronicsand plastic.
Those can be turned into anykind of shape.
We can manage those.
We can do the programming tomake it more effective, to make
it a little bit more elegant touse.
(17:12):
But yeah, it was a, that was anugly SOB.
And so when, you know, goingthrough usability design, um, I
did have some background I wasable to bring into that from my
past experience to going throughthe usability, the design
renderings, um, and turning itinto something, um, You know, at
(17:33):
this point feels veryAppalachian, very, very sleek,
right?
Also created a lot ofintellectual property in doing
so.
And, um, we You know, sometimesyou don't know exactly that you
have something totally unique.
Um, we developed a way to locatethe nerve fibers under the,
(17:54):
nerve fibers and blood vessel,under the skin in order to guide
a user.
So the user would be able tolocate where they need for
treatment points.
And then I started showing thisaround inside of the neurotech
community and nobody had everseen or heard of anything that
helped you like actually throughthe skin, get that right.
Non
Speaker 2 (18:11):
invasive is incredible.
Sure.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
So, so that was, um, yeah, so we were able to develop
intellectual property aroundeverything that makes this
particular device easy to use,comfortable, uh, effective.
You know, patent the treatmentprotocols, the pathways.
Um, so this space is a nice openspace, even though there are
technologies out there.
Speaker (18:34):
Right.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
There's so much white space out around the
bioelectronic field right now.
It was one of the things thatgot me very excited.
It's considering that great.
We've got a first product thatlooked like a pretty
straightforward path to market.
We were able to do it in threeyears, which is extremely
unusual in normal time fordevices, about seven.
Um, When
Speaker 2 (18:56):
you talk about that three year.
Um, window at what point did youdecide then that you wanted to,
um, list on, on an exchange atsome point after that three year
period, or was it during afterit was a public in, in 2021.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
So, if you remember in 2020, there was this minor
thing that happened in theworld.
Um, I
Speaker 2 (19:19):
do recall vaguely.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yes.
Um, so, uh, we have been largelyfunded by angels and doctors.
Raised about 13 million inprivate finance and private
financing through angels anddoctors.
Um, that wasn't going to give usthe lift we needed, but
pocketbooks in 2020, I startedmy a round in February, 2020.
(19:43):
So pocketbooks were closed
Speaker (19:45):
at that moment
Speaker 3 (19:46):
in time.
If, you know, everybody washolding capital to see.
not knowing whether this wasgoing to be a six month, I mean,
I remember the day that ouroffice is closed and said, we'll
be opening in three weeks.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Right.
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I think that, you know, that, so that timeframe,
um, so it was a carefullyconsidered decision.
Did we think we had enough to beable to go onto the public
market?
Um, I'd had the experience withgrowing a company on the public
market before.
So we made the choice that, um,Yeah, we kind of were faced with
(20:19):
a no financing in the privatemarket situation, or the ability
to finance a company and get usoff the ground in the, in the
commercial, in the publicmarket.
It's not for the faint of heart.
It's not what I would recommendfor everyone.
That was
Speaker 2 (20:35):
one of my next questions that I, that I
actually like to often ask theYou know, CEOs are in your
position, especially Nasdaq.
Um, on the Nasdaq.
How do you find that dual hatthat you wear right?
Because you still have to runthe business element of it on on
a full scale, if not with evenmore pressures, but also
(20:55):
balancing that other full timejob of being a public company,
communicating with shareholders,dealing with regulation and
compliance.
How have you found that thatthat role?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Um, I've been very fortunate.
I knew when we were going to thepublic market what that was
going to be like, because I'dhad the experience before with
it, so I've been very fortunateto be able to build a support
structure inside the team thatI'm not running.
Right now I am, but in most daysI'm not running the like day to
day.
(21:29):
How many chargers do we havekinds of conversations and how
many production runs to putthrough in this week?
Um, so having a, having a strongteam in place was essential
because then really my focus canbe on, um, more strategic issues
about.
what beyond ClearUp can we bedoing?
Where, where can we put someanchors in that may have a
(21:53):
stronger vector for valuecreation?
Um, so I think ClearUp is agreat product, but really some
of the things we're putting inplace now are going to be more
important for building, buildingthe longterm value of the
company.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
And, and I'm curious, what was it like that day of the
actual listing on NASDAQ?
And I mean, I know you had, youhad previous experience on the
foreign markets, but, um, youknow, NASDAQ is to itself.
What was it like, you know, thatfirst day?
For any, for any that areaspiring to get there at one
point, whether they know it'sgood for them or not, what was
(22:27):
it
Speaker 3 (22:27):
like?
I mean, the aspiration to getthere is good.
I, to do it when you've got areally nice, strong 50 million
of revenue under your belt,that's a good time to go.
Um, you know, there's, there's aplace and time to take a company
to a public market.
And in the middle of an economiccrisis, one month before the
biotech crash might not havebeen our best timing.
(22:48):
Having said all that.
Your question was, what's itlike that first moment?
And there's, there's this wordof liminal that somebody
introduced me to.
Um, it's just that moment ofanticipation, that moment when a
ring is spinning and you don'tknow if it's going to fall or
(23:10):
where the wind is not yetstarted.
I mean, it's just this, Momentwhere all things are possible
and anticipation is just therelike the share hasn't traded
that moment before anything hashappened and you know, you're
(23:32):
going to see your first tradesome point.
And when is that going tohappen?
And is it going to happen in asplit second?
Um, Now I think back and go, ohmy God, yeah, now we have,
within our window of time on thepublic market, we not only have
the moment where we startedtrading, but we also had two
days where we were the highesttraded stock on the New York
(23:54):
NASDAQ.
One day we did almost a halfbillion in trades.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
That's
Speaker (24:02):
incredible.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Jennifer, I've probably interviewed 75, you
know, at least 75 CEOs ofpublicly traded companies.
To your credit, I don't thinkI've ever heard anybody explain
it in such a poetic type of waythat would certainly motivate
anybody that is looking forwardto that to, uh, to experience it
(24:25):
in that way that you justdescribed.
So I appreciate that.
That's really
Speaker 3 (24:30):
There was this point where it was also a little bit
anticlimactic because we weren'tone of the companies that got to
do the bell ringing.
They were so backlogged.
We never really got to do it.
Yeah, I
Speaker 2 (24:37):
remember that.
Hundreds of companies werebehind on that schedule.
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
And so I bought for our teams a bunch of little
bells and had us ring overliterally over Zoom.
We're ringing our bells.
Um, I mean, it was just
Speaker 2 (24:52):
a
Speaker 3 (24:53):
crazy, crazy, crazy kind of experience at the same
time, a little bit like.
Oh, well, that was a little outof tech.
Come back to cook and get backto work.
But I think it's not unlike thatfor anyone who is coming onto
the market.
It's a lot of buildup.
It's a lot of work to get there.
You need to have your systems inplace.
You need to really be prepared.
Um, there's that moment when youdon't know what's going to
(25:15):
happen and you sit that splitsecond of the first day of
trading that will never happenever again.
Um, and then you got to get backto running the business cause
thanks.
That was all fun, but.
Now I've got the pressure.
That's when the hard
Speaker 2 (25:29):
work begins.
I know.
Um, well, I definitely want tobe cognizant of your time.
But, but let me ask you as we,uh, as we wrap up.
Um, you know, it sounds like theneurotech that you are working
on and have successfully beenable to roll out.
Are there other applicationsthat you're anticipating that
(25:51):
you can share with us?
Um, other, other products or,or, or broader direction that
you expect to be able to, uh, toroll out in the near future?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Absolutely.
So we do have, um, we do have aclinical trial underway for the
same product family fortreatment of, uh, after
reconstructive surgery forsinuses and for nasal or facial
reconstructive surgery.
So that is going with MountSinai right now, and it's an
opportunity to expand theapplication space for the clear
up technology as it stands.
(26:23):
Um, the other one that is veryexciting for the company is I
mentioned earlier, the Vegasnerve.
Um, the vagus nerve is a nervethat connects the brain, the
brainstem to the gut, and ittouches every single major organ
in between.
Um, it's a very high valuetarget for the medical, for
medical applications.
(26:43):
And we have recently announced,um, some very important data.
It's coming out of the FeinsteinInstitute, uh, the Feinstein
Institute for BioelectronicMedicine, which is considered
among the world leaders, if notthe world leader founded by the
guy that pioneered the field.
Um, Our data is showing resultsequivalent that we're getting
(27:04):
with a VNS stimulation approach,um, better results than what
we've ever been seeing with noninvasive treatments, in terms of
markers in the brain activity,markers in heart activity, and,
um, markers in the autonomicnervous system, so the
immunology functions.
(27:25):
That particular approach is alsoquite novel.
We were able to start developingintellectual property around a
new way of hitting the vagusnerve, of targeting the vagus
nerve, and the type of medicalapplications we are looking at
there are things like cardiacdisease, where there are, you
know, arrhythmia, Decreasingmorbidity and cardiovascular
(27:47):
disease decreasing.
Um, and also because of thebrain markers, we've gotten very
much a viable alternative fortreatment of depression and for
treatment of epilepsy.
Um, alternatives to an implant.
So there's a company leaveanother that's.
2.
9 billion market cap, makingmoney on an implanted
(28:10):
technology, uh, that they go andthey hook it up to the vagus
nerve.
And we're showing signals from anon invasive technology that is
very, that is very similar interms of the performance
parameters.
And that's just with our firsttrial out of the gate.
So before we've even done theoptimization studies, we've been
able to show that a non invasivetechnology can be as powerful in
changing brain function andheart function as an implant
(28:33):
can.
Thank you.
That's when things start to getvery, very serious, uh, for a
truly valuable company.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Well, I would, I would say that what you're doing
now is very valuable to, um, alot of people, but some of the,
um, verticals that you'retouching on, cardiac and
epilepsy and, and that's, that'snext level stuff.
So, um, I hope.
That, uh, you will join us inhowever long that is six months
from now, nine months from now,12 months from now and give us
(29:07):
an update on some of theexciting developments because I
know everybody's going to wantto hear about that.
And in the interim.
Um, where is the best place thatpeople can learn more about the
company?
What's the company website?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Um, the company website is TivicHealth.
com.
So think of the book, T I V I C,TivicHealth.
com.
You'll find it just searchingfor Tivic, T I V I C, um.
And we do have our investorsection of the website to be
able to learn more there, aswell as you'll be able to find
the clear up the clear upproduct on our website, as well
(29:43):
as, as I said, on Amazon and afew other major channels.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Fantastic.
Well, um, I'm excited that Ishouldn't need it, but the next
time I do, I'm not going to CVSto get the nasal spray anymore.
I'm going to be getting theclear up.
Um, and, uh, really thank youfor your time.
Thank you for sharing thisknowledge, this experience, uh,
where you're at, where thecompany is going and, uh, we
appreciate it.
And, uh, thanks again.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Thanks for the opportunity.
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