December 23, 2024 • 39 mins
Step into the new era of leadership with Bernadette Boas and special guest Thom Dennis from Serenity in Leadership. Together, we promise to uncover the secrets to thriving as a corporate leader amid the relentless pace of change fueled by AI advancements and societal shifts.
Thom's unique perspective, grounded in his experiences as a former Royal Marine officer and global consultant, provides practical tools for embracing flexibility, resilience, and compassionate vulnerability. From navigating the challenges of hybrid work environments to understanding the implications of quantum computing and climate change, this episode offers a masterclass in adapting to the dynamic corporate landscape.
Join us as we delve into the transformative power of AI across industries and the ethical dilemmas it presents, particularly the potential loss of the human touch in customer service and its psychological impacts.
We also confront the resistance facing Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion initiatives, questioning the genuine intentions behind organizational change. Highlighting companies like Patagonia, we explore how prioritizing passion can lead to meaningful progress in a post-pandemic world.
Whether you're an executive aiming to shed insecurities or an HR leader seeking effective strategies, prepare to challenge traditional models and step confidently into your role as a powerhouse leader.
Call to Action:
- Learn more about Tom Dennis and his work:
- Tune in to learn how you can start shedding your corporate constraints and unlock your leadership potential.
- Stay connected by subscribing to the "Shedding the Corporate Bitch" podcast on platforms like Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.
Listen to this powerful episode—it's time to face the changes and challenges in leadership and become the powerhouse you already are.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch.
I'm Bernadette Bowes ofVolifier Coaching, your host,
and in this powerful episodewe're diving into leading from
within, exploring how corporateleaders can navigate the
unprecedented turbulence of AIadoption, the backlash to DEI
and social transformationsignificantly impacting
(00:22):
businesses today.
Our guest, tom Dennis ofSerenity in Leadership, combines
his experience as a formerRoyal Marine officer with over
30 years in global consulting toguide us through today's most
pressing leadership challenges.
We'll unpack the complexitiesof managing AI adoption,
(00:42):
responding to the backlashagainst DEI and what you should
do about it, and handling therapid shifts of hybrid work.
We'll also confront the rise ofquantum computing, population
shifts and climate change forcesimpacting today's corporate
landscape in ways that cannot beignored.
Tom will emphasize today'schange is likely the slowest
(01:06):
it'll ever be.
Whether you're an executive orHR leader, tom's insights will
arm you with critical tools,flexibility, resilience and
compassionate vulnerability tolead with purpose.
Stay with us as we explore howyou can be fully present,
adaptable and ready to aspire inan era defined by relentless
(01:27):
transformation.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast
that transforms today'smanagers into tomorrow's
powerhouse leaders.
Your host, bernadette Boas,executive coach and author,
brings you into a world wherethe corporate grind meets
personal growth and success ineach and every episode.
With more than 25 years incorporate trenches, bernadette's
own journey from beingdismissed as a tyrant boss to
(01:50):
becoming a sought-afterleadership coach and speaker
illustrates the very essence oftransformation that she now
inspires in others with her tips, strategies and stories.
So if you're ready to shed thebitches of fear and insecurity,
ditch the imposter syndrome andstep into the role of the
powerhouse leader you were bornto be, this podcast is for you.
Let's do this.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Thank you very much.
It's good to be with you.
It's good to be with you,Bernadette.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
It's good to have you especially around this
conversation.
We are living through someturbulent times, and part of our
discussion is also going to beabout the fact that it's
probably the slowest timebelieve it or not that we're
going to have, because it's justgoing to get more fast and
turbulent.
And we're going to get into thewhole DEI space and the
(02:41):
backlash that's been coming outand about.
We're going to touch on AI andeven some social change
conversations, but before we do,I always like our viewers and
listeners to get an idea of theperson that we're talking to,
where they're from, what theirpassions are.
So can you share with us alittle bit about Tom?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes, all right, well, I'll try and stay off my CV.
My father was an engineer andso I was brought up in that sort
of environment.
I worked in the shop floor whenI was very young, became a
lifeguard, which was great fun,and then flying college industry
and then joined the RoyalMarines, and so I spent a long
(03:25):
time traveling around andlearning about leadership and
learning about the military andand world affairs really, which
is something that I've been sortof very interested in and still
am.
Came out after the first the,the first Gulf War, and then
since then I've been doing thework that I do I.
I have been married I'm not nowand I've got two kids.
(03:47):
My daughter just had her secondboy Very exciting.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Nice Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Thank you.
And my son?
He's in Australia with his wifeand four children.
So I'm a grandfather ofsix-fold Beautiful, beautiful.
And you're an England,australia, with his wife and
four children.
So I'm a grandfather of sixfold Beautiful, and you're in.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
England correct.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I am in England, although well, I say although I
mean I was born in England,although my roots are in France.
My parents were, well, mymother was French, my father was
half French, but I lived in theUS for six years, travel around
a lot, so I have a sense ofvarious aspects, parts of the US
, very, very fond of the US andI go back as soon, as often as I
(04:34):
can.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Well, lovely, Well.
Again, congratulations on thegrandbabies.
That's fabulous.
Well, speaking of grandbabies,it's actually an interesting
segue into our conversation,because the grandbabies of the
world are going to be taking onand we're leaving these trying
times and hopefully they getbetter.
(04:55):
But the point of our discussiontoo they're also going to get
faster.
So you do talk about the factthat this is the slowest time
that we're going to beexperiencing.
Can you help us understand that?
Like, what do you mean by thatand where is it coming from?
What are the factors that isdriving that?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, when I say the slowest, what I really mean is
the pace of change that we areexperiencing today is not going
to slow down, it's going to getfaster.
And so you know it amuses me alittle bit, you know, when I
speak to a CEO of anorganization and they say oh
yeah, we'd really want to workwith you, but we're just going
(05:39):
through a period of change.
So give me a call in six monthswhen we'll be through this, and
then I'd love to talk to you,and it's like I are you just
getting rid of me or do youactually believe what you're
saying?
Because it's not going to slowdown.
And so what we have to do andthat's hence the title leading
(06:02):
from within.
We have to find a new way of ofleading which isn't based on
the old models, which had sortof certainty and security and
very linear polar thinking.
All of that's got to go out thewindow.
Where's it coming from?
Well, I think there's a wholeseries of things that are
(06:27):
challenging particularly leaders, but all of us really.
We had the pandemic, and thepandemic is not over, in the
sense that many, many people aresuffering from long COVID.
Many more people still have asense of anxiety in them and
that drives a lot of activity,which mostly is very negative,
(06:52):
right Agreed.
So fear is a real underlyingaspect in an awful lot of
people's lives.
So resourcing ourselves isanother aspect, if you like, of
trying to go forward.
Then you've got climate changeand we may argue about who
(07:12):
caused climate change, but it'sdifficult to argue that there
isn't any climate change.
Things are changing and becausethe Earth is such a complex
system, it's very difficult topredict what's going to happen
and when.
But one of the things that wecan see that it's doing is
(07:32):
causing massive populationmovement.
And combine that with all thewars that are going on, which
are also causing massivepopulation movement.
Massive population movement,right, and, and you come up with
that sort of dynamic, which isreal, against a sort of a
political scene, a social scenewhich says not in my backyard,
(07:54):
you're not coming into mycountry.
So people, at a time, as I seeit, when we need community, we
need people joining together totackle problems which are much
bigger than us as units,everybody's trying to splinter
apart and that's not going towork.
It's leading to more and moredisaffection and tension and
(08:19):
fear, which again is speeding up.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Going back to these other societal things that are
happening the movement of peopledue to war, the movement of
people due to the climate change.
What is that doing tobusinesses?
What do all those factors haveand what do leaders need to do
today in order to adapt?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I had the privilege of rafting down the Grand Canyon
some years ago, which was anamazing, amazing experience, so
humbling to be in this placewhere you can see millions of
years of development in therocks as you just go past.
But when we came to rapids, wewe would get out and go and look
(09:09):
at the rapid and because theflow of the water changes from
day to day, you never know quitehow it's going to be.
So you try and plot a routethrough the, the, the rocks, you
get back in your raft and offyou go, you're in there, you
really are at the mercy of thewater, and as you start to go in
there, there's no turning back.
You can't sort of row backwards, you, you're, you're in there.
(09:32):
You get to a stage where you'rejust making really minor
alterations, or interferences,if you like, in your steering as
you go through these things,and then you're working with the
water, and that, in a sense, isa metaphor for me for leading
from within, because we can'tfight the changes that are
(09:56):
coming, we really can't, and sowhat we have to do is to create
a space of peace within us wherewe access our inner wisdom.
I put my hand on my heart.
I mean, I could put it on mygut.
You know, the heart and the gutare the things that inform us
(10:19):
when our brain is full ofrubbish.
Our brains tend to be full ofrubbish most of the time and
they, they, they, they're theones.
It's the one that gives all theadmonitions and the you're
terrible and you're ugly andyou're doing badly, and yeah,
all those tapes that play inyour head, whereas the heart, if
(10:43):
you're at peace, you can hear,and it's a still voice that
comes out that says just a touchright there, just a little bit
left there, and then you flowthrough the rocks and you come
out the other side.
So that's why my organizationis called Serenity in Leadership
, because I think you have to beable to create a place of
(11:04):
serenity in yourself where youcan hear your inner guidance.
And actually, as a leader, ifyou have a sense of serenity
about you, people will gathertowards you, because it's such a
scary place.
And so if a leader can say totheir people, and so if a leader
(11:25):
can say to their people look, Idon't know how this is all
going to come out, all right,but be with me, stick with me,
and we will work this outtogether.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I'll navigate you through the rough waters and
find the path.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
More.
So I would say we'll navigatethe waters.
So it's not like oh, I'm theleader, I've got full
responsibility for this.
I think that today's leadershipis much more.
It's not about consensus, butit is about listening to all the
wisdom that you can gather.
So often in an organization youget the CEO who says
(12:10):
something's going's going reallywrong.
You know, we've got to do this,We've got to change that.
And all the people on the shopfloor are saying hey, come talk
to us, we know what's goingwrong, we know how to put it
right.
And all the leaders are saying,oh, never mind that, We've got
to do this.
It's like, no, let's listen,let's respect our people.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
I love that.
I love that it's so true.
If they would actually comedown and meet people where they
are, to understand that they'rethe ones doing the work and
therefore they could help themin so much more powerful ways
than they give them credit for.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I love that.
All right.
So we understand that now andwe understand where leading from
within comes from.
How is AI?
I mean, we all know what amassive world change this is and
(13:10):
it's come on so fast and sostrong and everyone's trying to
figure it out.
What do leaders need to do toat least get a grasp on it
within the four walls of theirorganization?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Well, it depends how far they've gone down the road
already, I suppose.
For those that are sort ofholding back or they don't know
quite what to do, I'd say tothem play with it, have fun, but
do it for your personal stuff.
Work out your shopping list,work out what your chores are
that you've got to do in thehouse, work out, give it some
(13:48):
parameters and let it help youchoose where you're going to go
on holiday next year.
There's so many things that onecan do with it.
Then I think it's quite fun.
Actually, the great skill aroundAI right now is prompts.
(14:08):
Prompt engineers are theexciting.
Everyone thought it was goingto be programming, but it's not
programming, because AI does allthe programming for you now.
So pretty scary for all thepeople who said, right, that's
going to be my career, becauseyou know I can really make money
doing this.
No, don't worry about thatanymore.
Doing this, no, don't worryabout that anymore.
(14:33):
So, um, exploring, you know youcan ask ai how can I write a
really good prompt that willhelp me with this problem, and
it'll give you some ideas on theprompt.
And then you put the prompt inand it'll give you the response.
You know it's um.
It is an extraordinary umfacility, right, and you know
some organizations obviouslyhave got very specialized ai.
It is an extraordinary facility, right, and you know some
organizations obviously have gotvery specialized AI.
You know sifting CVs and doinglegal research and, of course,
(14:57):
in medicine, there are trulyamazing things going on.
The fundamental, though, isdon't ignore it.
It is here, it is here to stay,and it is developing at a
breakneck speed.
So get on the boat or get onthe bus, or whatever the
metaphor is you want and play.
Don't be scared of it, but atthe same time, don't believe
(15:20):
everything it tells you.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
That is key, key, key because you can open up any
type of online newsletter andwhatnot and you'll see all the
lawsuits and legal issues andimplications that AI is also
creating and therefore companiesdefinitely need to be paying
(15:42):
attention to the accuracy andthe ethic issues around it.
Absolutely, absolutely, do youuse it?
Because I use it.
I was just using it for thelast hour and a half in the work
that I was doing this morning.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I do use it a lot, some things that I you know.
It's not really very good tocriticize it, particularly
because it's developing andchanging so much, some things.
Really, you know, if you useword and use their dictation,
then forget it.
Certainly for me, with myenglish accent maybe it works
better with an american accent,but no, it's dreadful.
(16:18):
And I use otter to recordpodcasts and and and and zoom
meetings and that.
And often I read the transcriptand I think what on earth was I
saying?
I've got to go back to theaudio to say oh yeah, right,
because it just, you know, it'sa graphic example of how it just
(16:40):
makes up things Right.
But you know, the technology istruly amazing that it can do
what it does Right, but we'restill quite a long way from
where it actually can bereliable.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I love the tip that you provided for businesses Play
with it, start slow, use it.
Personally I have not done thatyet, but even put it out to a
few of your people to kind ofplay around and playing with
prompts is a blast.
I love sitting here and justgetting really creative with my
prompts to see what the resultsare.
(17:14):
But I love that because thatwould ease a leader in to
getting out of that fear factorand kind of just seeing what it
can lend itself to improving thebusiness, because there's a
great application of it.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Well, yes, and of course, each business is unique.
Their challenges are unique.
I think one of the dangers andwe'll talk a bit more about DEI,
but they say that IBM dealswith a million CVs a year, so
clearly that they, they, theyneed some help, unless they're
(17:52):
going to employ, you know, andpeople aren't going to do that,
so but it's it's.
Where is, where are thecriteria, and what is it that
you're going to miss by havingan AI do the sifting?
Because you will.
You will miss some things, andmaybe that's just how it is.
(18:13):
That's the cost of it, but Ithink there's a sadness in there
, because we lose our humanity.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I just heard a news brief yesterday that AI chatbots
are being developed with suchhuman emotion to where a young
boy just committed suicidebecause he had this relationship
(18:42):
with what he thought was a realperson.
And so I do think the AI mostof us are using, especially from
a business applicationperspective, probably still is
very robotic and doesn't havethat human emotional touch, but
it's coming.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
It really is coming, bernadette and I mean British
Telecom, one of the biggesttelecoms businesses in this
country, announced a while backthey're laying off 10,000 people
and replacing them with AI,particularly around customer
interface.
Because, for the very reasonyou're saying, the AI can be set
up in such a way that it showsmore empathy in dealing with
(19:23):
people than without.
The difficulty is, you know, Idon't know what it's like for
you, but when I get sort ofchatting with a bot which seems
to happen far too frequently itgets me so irritated so quickly
because you hit up against theirlimitations.
(19:43):
Now, over a period of time, itis going to improve, but at the
moment there are far too manydecisions being made by machines
to the detriment of actuallythe customer.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
And you know there's an old comedian comedy skit from
some years ago in this country,where you know the guy.
The guy goes in to the bankmanager you know assistant and
he sits across the table and andthe chap says what do you want?
He says, well, I'd like toborrow a thousand dollars.
So the guy types in thousanddollars in that.
(20:24):
And then then he turns to thechap and says the computer says
no.
So he says, well, how, about500 pounds?
You know, can I borrow 500?
The computer says no, andthat's it.
And it's like there's so manythings.
It's like insurance companies,you know, can you get insurance
(20:47):
on something?
No, can I get an explanation?
No, the computer said no.
We're in a kind of dystopia inthat sense.
Yes, we can make it empathize,but we don't have the
underpinning thinking thataddresses us as humans with
(21:09):
needs.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
What recommendations do you give leaders to balance
that out?
Yes, there's places you canautomate that don't require a
human emotional connection, butthen there's other places where
it's important for you to stillhave that service touch.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Wow.
Well, that's a big question ina sense, and I suppose the
challenge is how much of a humando you want to be?
Because one of the aspects ofAI is that there are going to be
people who make a ton of moneyusing AI Right Now.
That's great for those thatmake the money, if that's what
(21:54):
you want, but it also creates awhole greater division.
You know the pandemic happenedhas created huge divisions,
divisions in society, and ai isdoing it more.
It's amplifying it.
So there's the haves and thehave-nots, and so if you're the
(22:15):
ceo of an organization and youwant to to implement ai, more
power to you.
I understand completely and Ican see the potential benefits
and, at the same time, what doesthat mean to your people?
You know they're saying now,for instance, in law firms, that
an awful lot of the drudgery ofresearch in looking for
(22:38):
precedents and stuff like thatcan be done by AI Incredibly
efficient, very fast, brilliant.
But what happens to all thepeople who are interns and young
aspiring lawyers who are notgoing to have that experience,
(22:59):
right, right, going to come from, and what is their route of
experience?
What is good, was it?
What is it going to be, and howmany of those interns actually
are not going to be taken on atall now, because ai is going to
be doing that job.
So I think one of the thereally important sort of
questions around this is whatare the unintended consequences
(23:22):
of whatever it is that you'rethinking of doing or
implementing?
Because, believe me, there willbe unintended consequences.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So that's a great question for a leader to ask,
right that's a great questionfor a leader to ask and, with
their leadership team his or herleadership team what are the
unintended consequences based onthe decisions we're making?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
I can tell you, as a facilitator, where I facilitate
off sites of C-suite teams allthe time, that's a question they
hate, they don't want to thinkabout it.
Yeah, Don't bother me with that.
I know where we're going andit's like be careful.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
There's enough divisiveness in the world right
now.
We need to be careful thatwe're not just ripping out the
fabric of humanity with some ofthe decisions that we're making
and, sadly, you can look aroundand just find it in too many
places at the moment.
So let's move on to DEI,because that's an area that's
(24:29):
getting totally ripped apart aswell.
So when you say the backlash ofDEI, help us understand that.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Well with George Floyd and I mean, I don't know,
you can start at any point ifyou like, but I remember when he
was murdered, a number ofcompanies phoned me and said, oh
, look, we, we, we need to dosome work around Black Lives
Matter.
So so they're phoning up andsaying, look, black Lives Matter
, come and run a thing on that.
And I'm saying, yeah, but inwhat context?
(25:02):
What are you actually trying todo here?
Are you trying to do the annualvaccination of, in this case,
black Lives Matter?
Or, you know, integratingracial, having racial justice,
or something?
These are such deeply heldbiases, conditioning, that we
(25:23):
all have.
We all have Through ourconditioning, we have have, we
all have through ourconditioning.
We have been brought up inparticular ways and you're not
going to do it in an hourseminar.
You're not going to do in aweek's seminar.
This is something that this isa is a developmental process and
the only real way to, as I seeit, to get on that bus properly
(25:46):
is to say, right, we're gonna,we're gonna change the culture
in this organization and we'regonna work with people and we're
gonna look at what is it thatmakes people react negatively to
someone else, and this.
This is difficult work.
So you've got some companiesgoing on to the backlash that
(26:09):
are really working with this.
They're keeping going.
In the UK, the last governmentdecided that diversity was a
waste of time, it was a waste ofmoney, a waste of effort, and
so they told people to stopspending money on it, in the
National Health Service, forinstance, and in the civil
(26:30):
service.
And it's like there's a ton ofcompanies that have set up and
said you know, call me, I can, Ican make your organization
diverse and happy, and blah,blah, blah.
Of course they can't.
And the snake oil salesmen oftoday in a sense.
But there is good work that canbe done.
(26:52):
But rather like the Me Toomovement, after that came out,
there was this huge pushback andit's got larger and larger, to
the extent now that there's lesswomen, certainly in the Fortune
, I think in the Fortune 500,but certainly in the UK
equivalent of women on boardsthe dying throes of an old
(27:28):
system saying I'm not going tochange, I'm going to keep things
the way that I want thembecause it works for me, right?
So this is deeply vestedinterest stuff and forgive me,
but this is the dysfunctionalmasculine that has ruled for
many, many, many years and hasbeen challenged by a very
(27:52):
powerful but actually quitedysfunctional feminine that now
says I can do everything.
So the masculine says well, ifyou can do everything, where do
I sit in all this?
No, no, ma'am, go away.
So there's the gender, there'sthe race, there's disabilities,
there's neurodivergence, allthese aspects which, coming back
(28:16):
to sort of leading from within,these are huge challenges for
leaders today, right?
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Do you find that a company that just rips it out
without any really intentionalthought and consideration?
They rip out their DEI.
Are they finding backlash innot only how their people are
responding to it but more so howtheir culture is changing?
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Well, you know, when you look at a pendulum, it
swings and it swings quiteslowly.
So the reactions, and thereactions to the reactions are
taking a while, are taking awhile.
But you only have to look at anorganization like Patagonia,
which is, you know, for me isone of the greatest success
(29:12):
stories in the corporate world.
They don't follow convention,all they do is follow their
passion and it just works sobeautifully.
It works so beautifully.
So in an organization where, Imean a good example at the
moment is the companies that aresaying to their workforce right
(29:37):
, you come back five days a week, we want you in the office.
Okay, where a lot of peoplefound that during the pandemic,
not everybody, not everyone.
When you're sitting with threechildren in the same room and
you're sitting on the end of abed trying to do your work, it
ain't easy.
But for an awful lot of people,working from home was a huge
(29:58):
benefit, not least because theydidn't have to commute into work
.
But the other side of that isI'm the manager, I need to
control what's going on, and ifthey're at home, then they're
not doing their work.
That is the fundamentalmistrust assumption, whereas
actually somebody's saying, yeah, I'm not working nine to five.
(30:20):
I've got other things I need todo in the household, but I'll
work from six till late in theevening, until and I'll get my
and, what's more, I'll be moreeffective, more efficient and
all the rest of it.
So.
So that's a backlash.
We need you back in the office.
But none of these things areright or wrong, black or white.
(30:42):
White, because actually thereare interchanges that take place
in the office which you need tohave.
You get somebody who comes outof university during the
pandemic, joins an organizationhe's never been into the office
not even yet has he ever beeninto the office so he's losing,
or she uh, all the, all, the,the, the social interactions and
(31:07):
also learnings that go on inthe office.
So you need a bit of both.
You need this sense of balanceof how do we get the best out of
the situation, how do we getthe best out of the people, and
sometimes that well, I thinkthat each company will find its
own balance.
But when you get the autocraticperson which I referred to
(31:30):
right at the beginning who says,no, we need them all in the
office all the time, that is thecontrol mechanism, it's not one
that's being done for the bestthings in the business.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Well, and I like what you said about the fact that
not only control, but it's nottrust, it's distrusting of their
own people, that they have toput the hammer down and be it's
my way or no way.
That in itself is a huge issueand a huge implication not only
to the health of the individual,the employees and the
(32:04):
productivity and effectivenessand efficiency.
Not only to the health of theindividual, the employees and
the productivity andeffectiveness and efficiency,
not only to the business, butalso to that leader, because
sooner or later that type ofleader is not going to succeed.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Well, you see, historically you go back to Jack
Welsh and all that style.
A lot of people still go to hisbooks and quote him and that.
So there are still people whohold up that kind of leadership
as the way forward.
It has died.
Sure, if people haven't heardthat it has died.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So let it die.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
But there are still people trying to resuscitate the
body because they they see thatgreat success came out of that.
But if you look at a lot of thereally amazing, powerful
leaders who led like that, whenthey retired or died or whatever
, there was no one to take overand it left a vacuum which was
(33:04):
actually very, very damaging forthose organizations.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Absolutely Well.
This has been fabulous, but Iwant to be sure.
We've talked a lot about AI.
We talked about the AI, we'vetalked about change.
What would one thing be basedon everything that we talked
about, based on leading fromwithin, that you would leave
with our corporate leaders thatare listening and watching?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I once had to go and visit an important grand CEO of
a very large organization and wehad 15 minutes with him.
And what really struck me, aswe walked into this grand office
and walked up to his desk andthere were two chairs there and
we sat down, his desk was clear.
(33:52):
There was no computer.
There was.
Well, it was closed, you know.
And he said, right, gentlemen,what can I do for you?
And for those 15 minutes he hadour end of the detention.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
We had his end of it.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
It was a two-way thing and at the end of that the
time was up and it was up.
You know, he held his boundary,finished out the door, finish
out the door.
So what I take from that is thegreatest gift that you can give
to another human being is yourfull presence, love that Agreed.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Love it, love it, love it, love it.
Thank you, tom.
This has been absolutelyfabulous and I want to make sure
everyone knows.
Be sure to go toserenityandleadershipcom.
Learn all about Tom and thework that they do and the
services that they provide.
At the same time, be sure tofollow him on LinkedIn.
You could simply go to TomDennis and that's T-H-O-M.
(34:59):
Tom Dennis and follow him onLinkedIn.
Tom, thank you so much for this.
It's been fabulous.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Bernadette, thank you , it's been lovely speaking with
you, really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
You're welcome.
Tom Dennis of Serenity andLeadership is a powerhouse.
What a hard discussion kind ofone that really should get us
all concerned, shake us in theboots, and very focused on
wanting to make changes withinour organizations, whether that
is at a team level or thebusiness as a whole.
(35:30):
Tom really talked about thefact that change is speeding up.
When he said that right now,what we're all going through and
what we haven't gone throughfor the last several years, it
has been slow compared to whatit's going to be like when we go
forward I kind of startedgasping for air.
However, that's a reality weall need to consider, especially
(35:55):
as leaders.
We need to be flexible,adaptable.
We need to be present with ourpeople to understand just what
they're going through and whatthe business is going through,
so then we can all walk throughit very successfully.
Tom also mentioned thatleadership is moving to the
(36:16):
heart.
It's getting away from the oldbureaucracy and the old ways of
doing things that were all it'smy way or no way, and really
moving more toward leading withthe heart, being empathetic,
meeting our people where theyare, walking in their shoes,
(36:38):
wanting to bring them along, asopposed to just make sure that
they're doing what they're doing.
Then he went on to discuss keythings like AI and climate
change, and then even DEI andwhat needs to happen there.
As opposed to ripping it out,leaders have to be intentional
and purposeful and thoughtfularound how do we integrate it
(37:02):
into our culture so we don'thave to have a standalone DEI
initiative or platform.
And he even challenged leadersto think about do you care?
Do you even care to lead fromthe heart?
Do you care that your employeesare people and that it's not
just about getting the work done, but it's about what is best
(37:26):
and how to get the best out ofthe people that are doing the
work that's making yousuccessful?
It was eye-opening.
What did you take away?
What were your thoughts, whatare your views, what are your
challenges to our discussiontoday?
Follow me on LinkedIn, justsimply at BernadetteBose, and
send me a DM and let me knowwhat your views or opinions or
(37:48):
ideas are in regards to what wediscussed today on Shaking the
Corporate Bench.
At the same time, should you orsomeone on your team be
struggling and want to reallyunderstand how can you take
control of the direction of yourorganization through all of
these trying times, then be sureto reach out and let's have a
(38:09):
conversation about it.
Go to coachmubernadettecom.
Forward slash discovery calland let me give you some tips
and strategies and ideas for howyou can be making an impact
while, at the same time, reallysupporting your team and your
organization through any type ofchange.
I'll look forward to having youfor another episode of Shedding
(38:31):
the Corporate Bitch.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Bye.
Thank you for tuning intotoday's episode of Shedding the
Corporate Bitch.
Every journey taken together isanother step towards unleashing
the powerhouse leader withinyou.
Don't miss any of our weeklyepisodes.
Subscribe to our podcast onApple Podcasts, spotify or
wherever you love to listen.
And for those who thrive onvisual content, catch us on our
Shedding the Bitch YouTubechannel.
(38:52):
Want to dive deeper withBernadette on becoming a
powerhouse leader?
Visit balloffirecoachingcom tolearn more about how she helps
professionals, hr executives andteam leaders elevate overall
team performance.
You've been listening to Shed.
Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch.
I'm Bernadette Bowes ofVolifier Coaching, your host,
and in this powerful episodewe're diving into leading from
within, exploring how corporateleaders can navigate the
unprecedented turbulence of AIadoption, the backlash to DEI
and social transformationsignificantly impacting
(00:22):
businesses today.
Our guest, tom Dennis ofSerenity in Leadership, combines
his experience as a formerRoyal Marine officer with over
30 years in global consulting toguide us through today's most
pressing leadership challenges.
We'll unpack the complexitiesof managing AI adoption,
(00:42):
responding to the backlashagainst DEI and what you should
do about it, and handling therapid shifts of hybrid work.
We'll also confront the rise ofquantum computing, population
shifts and climate change forcesimpacting today's corporate
landscape in ways that cannot beignored.
Tom will emphasize today'schange is likely the slowest
(01:06):
it'll ever be.
Whether you're an executive orHR leader, tom's insights will
arm you with critical tools,flexibility, resilience and
compassionate vulnerability tolead with purpose.
Stay with us as we explore howyou can be fully present,
adaptable and ready to aspire inan era defined by relentless
(01:27):
transformation.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast
that transforms today'smanagers into tomorrow's
powerhouse leaders.
Your host, bernadette Boas,executive coach and author,
brings you into a world wherethe corporate grind meets
personal growth and success ineach and every episode.
With more than 25 years incorporate trenches, bernadette's
own journey from beingdismissed as a tyrant boss to
(01:50):
becoming a sought-afterleadership coach and speaker
illustrates the very essence oftransformation that she now
inspires in others with her tips, strategies and stories.
So if you're ready to shed thebitches of fear and insecurity,
ditch the imposter syndrome andstep into the role of the
powerhouse leader you were bornto be, this podcast is for you.
Let's do this.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Thank you very much.
It's good to be with you.
It's good to be with you,Bernadette.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
It's good to have you especially around this
conversation.
We are living through someturbulent times, and part of our
discussion is also going to beabout the fact that it's
probably the slowest timebelieve it or not that we're
going to have, because it's justgoing to get more fast and
turbulent.
And we're going to get into thewhole DEI space and the
(02:41):
backlash that's been coming outand about.
We're going to touch on AI andeven some social change
conversations, but before we do,I always like our viewers and
listeners to get an idea of theperson that we're talking to,
where they're from, what theirpassions are.
So can you share with us alittle bit about Tom?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes, all right, well, I'll try and stay off my CV.
My father was an engineer andso I was brought up in that sort
of environment.
I worked in the shop floor whenI was very young, became a
lifeguard, which was great fun,and then flying college industry
and then joined the RoyalMarines, and so I spent a long
(03:25):
time traveling around andlearning about leadership and
learning about the military andand world affairs really, which
is something that I've been sortof very interested in and still
am.
Came out after the first the,the first Gulf War, and then
since then I've been doing thework that I do I.
I have been married I'm not nowand I've got two kids.
(03:47):
My daughter just had her secondboy Very exciting.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Nice Congratulations.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Thank you.
And my son?
He's in Australia with his wifeand four children.
So I'm a grandfather ofsix-fold Beautiful, beautiful.
And you're an England,australia, with his wife and
four children.
So I'm a grandfather of sixfold Beautiful, and you're in.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
England correct.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I am in England, although well, I say although I
mean I was born in England,although my roots are in France.
My parents were, well, mymother was French, my father was
half French, but I lived in theUS for six years, travel around
a lot, so I have a sense ofvarious aspects, parts of the US
, very, very fond of the US andI go back as soon, as often as I
(04:34):
can.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Well, lovely, Well.
Again, congratulations on thegrandbabies.
That's fabulous.
Well, speaking of grandbabies,it's actually an interesting
segue into our conversation,because the grandbabies of the
world are going to be taking onand we're leaving these trying
times and hopefully they getbetter.
(04:55):
But the point of our discussiontoo they're also going to get
faster.
So you do talk about the factthat this is the slowest time
that we're going to beexperiencing.
Can you help us understand that?
Like, what do you mean by thatand where is it coming from?
What are the factors that isdriving that?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, when I say the slowest, what I really mean is
the pace of change that we areexperiencing today is not going
to slow down, it's going to getfaster.
And so you know it amuses me alittle bit, you know, when I
speak to a CEO of anorganization and they say oh
yeah, we'd really want to workwith you, but we're just going
(05:39):
through a period of change.
So give me a call in six monthswhen we'll be through this, and
then I'd love to talk to you,and it's like I are you just
getting rid of me or do youactually believe what you're
saying?
Because it's not going to slowdown.
And so what we have to do andthat's hence the title leading
(06:02):
from within.
We have to find a new way of ofleading which isn't based on
the old models, which had sortof certainty and security and
very linear polar thinking.
All of that's got to go out thewindow.
Where's it coming from?
Well, I think there's a wholeseries of things that are
(06:27):
challenging particularly leaders, but all of us really.
We had the pandemic, and thepandemic is not over, in the
sense that many, many people aresuffering from long COVID.
Many more people still have asense of anxiety in them and
that drives a lot of activity,which mostly is very negative,
(06:52):
right Agreed.
So fear is a real underlyingaspect in an awful lot of
people's lives.
So resourcing ourselves isanother aspect, if you like, of
trying to go forward.
Then you've got climate changeand we may argue about who
(07:12):
caused climate change, but it'sdifficult to argue that there
isn't any climate change.
Things are changing and becausethe Earth is such a complex
system, it's very difficult topredict what's going to happen
and when.
But one of the things that wecan see that it's doing is
(07:32):
causing massive populationmovement.
And combine that with all thewars that are going on, which
are also causing massivepopulation movement.
Massive population movement,right, and, and you come up with
that sort of dynamic, which isreal, against a sort of a
political scene, a social scenewhich says not in my backyard,
(07:54):
you're not coming into mycountry.
So people, at a time, as I seeit, when we need community, we
need people joining together totackle problems which are much
bigger than us as units,everybody's trying to splinter
apart and that's not going towork.
It's leading to more and moredisaffection and tension and
(08:19):
fear, which again is speeding up.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Going back to these other societal things that are
happening the movement of peopledue to war, the movement of
people due to the climate change.
What is that doing tobusinesses?
What do all those factors haveand what do leaders need to do
today in order to adapt?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I had the privilege of rafting down the Grand Canyon
some years ago, which was anamazing, amazing experience, so
humbling to be in this placewhere you can see millions of
years of development in therocks as you just go past.
But when we came to rapids, wewe would get out and go and look
(09:09):
at the rapid and because theflow of the water changes from
day to day, you never know quitehow it's going to be.
So you try and plot a routethrough the, the, the rocks, you
get back in your raft and offyou go, you're in there, you
really are at the mercy of thewater, and as you start to go in
there, there's no turning back.
You can't sort of row backwards, you, you're, you're in there.
(09:32):
You get to a stage where you'rejust making really minor
alterations, or interferences,if you like, in your steering as
you go through these things,and then you're working with the
water, and that, in a sense, isa metaphor for me for leading
from within, because we can'tfight the changes that are
(09:56):
coming, we really can't, and sowhat we have to do is to create
a space of peace within us wherewe access our inner wisdom.
I put my hand on my heart.
I mean, I could put it on mygut.
You know, the heart and the gutare the things that inform us
(10:19):
when our brain is full ofrubbish.
Our brains tend to be full ofrubbish most of the time and
they, they, they, they're theones.
It's the one that gives all theadmonitions and the you're
terrible and you're ugly andyou're doing badly, and yeah,
all those tapes that play inyour head, whereas the heart, if
(10:43):
you're at peace, you can hear,and it's a still voice that
comes out that says just a touchright there, just a little bit
left there, and then you flowthrough the rocks and you come
out the other side.
So that's why my organizationis called Serenity in Leadership
, because I think you have to beable to create a place of
(11:04):
serenity in yourself where youcan hear your inner guidance.
And actually, as a leader, ifyou have a sense of serenity
about you, people will gathertowards you, because it's such a
scary place.
And so if a leader can say totheir people, and so if a leader
(11:25):
can say to their people look, Idon't know how this is all
going to come out, all right,but be with me, stick with me,
and we will work this outtogether.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I'll navigate you through the rough waters and
find the path.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
More.
So I would say we'll navigatethe waters.
So it's not like oh, I'm theleader, I've got full
responsibility for this.
I think that today's leadershipis much more.
It's not about consensus, butit is about listening to all the
wisdom that you can gather.
So often in an organization youget the CEO who says
(12:10):
something's going's going reallywrong.
You know, we've got to do this,We've got to change that.
And all the people on the shopfloor are saying hey, come talk
to us, we know what's goingwrong, we know how to put it
right.
And all the leaders are saying,oh, never mind that, We've got
to do this.
It's like, no, let's listen,let's respect our people.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
I love that.
I love that it's so true.
If they would actually comedown and meet people where they
are, to understand that they'rethe ones doing the work and
therefore they could help themin so much more powerful ways
than they give them credit for.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I love that.
All right.
So we understand that now andwe understand where leading from
within comes from.
How is AI?
I mean, we all know what amassive world change this is and
(13:10):
it's come on so fast and sostrong and everyone's trying to
figure it out.
What do leaders need to do toat least get a grasp on it
within the four walls of theirorganization?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Well, it depends how far they've gone down the road
already, I suppose.
For those that are sort ofholding back or they don't know
quite what to do, I'd say tothem play with it, have fun, but
do it for your personal stuff.
Work out your shopping list,work out what your chores are
that you've got to do in thehouse, work out, give it some
(13:48):
parameters and let it help youchoose where you're going to go
on holiday next year.
There's so many things that onecan do with it.
Then I think it's quite fun.
Actually, the great skill aroundAI right now is prompts.
(14:08):
Prompt engineers are theexciting.
Everyone thought it was goingto be programming, but it's not
programming, because AI does allthe programming for you now.
So pretty scary for all thepeople who said, right, that's
going to be my career, becauseyou know I can really make money
doing this.
No, don't worry about thatanymore.
Doing this, no, don't worryabout that anymore.
(14:33):
So, um, exploring, you know youcan ask ai how can I write a
really good prompt that willhelp me with this problem, and
it'll give you some ideas on theprompt.
And then you put the prompt inand it'll give you the response.
You know it's um.
It is an extraordinary umfacility, right, and you know
some organizations obviouslyhave got very specialized ai.
It is an extraordinary facility, right, and you know some
organizations obviously have gotvery specialized AI.
You know sifting CVs and doinglegal research and, of course,
(14:57):
in medicine, there are trulyamazing things going on.
The fundamental, though, isdon't ignore it.
It is here, it is here to stay,and it is developing at a
breakneck speed.
So get on the boat or get onthe bus, or whatever the
metaphor is you want and play.
Don't be scared of it, but atthe same time, don't believe
(15:20):
everything it tells you.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
That is key, key, key because you can open up any
type of online newsletter andwhatnot and you'll see all the
lawsuits and legal issues andimplications that AI is also
creating and therefore companiesdefinitely need to be paying
(15:42):
attention to the accuracy andthe ethic issues around it.
Absolutely, absolutely, do youuse it?
Because I use it.
I was just using it for thelast hour and a half in the work
that I was doing this morning.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I do use it a lot, some things that I you know.
It's not really very good tocriticize it, particularly
because it's developing andchanging so much, some things.
Really, you know, if you useword and use their dictation,
then forget it.
Certainly for me, with myenglish accent maybe it works
better with an american accent,but no, it's dreadful.
(16:18):
And I use otter to recordpodcasts and and and and zoom
meetings and that.
And often I read the transcriptand I think what on earth was I
saying?
I've got to go back to theaudio to say oh yeah, right,
because it just, you know, it'sa graphic example of how it just
(16:40):
makes up things Right.
But you know, the technology istruly amazing that it can do
what it does Right, but we'restill quite a long way from
where it actually can bereliable.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I love the tip that you provided for businesses Play
with it, start slow, use it.
Personally I have not done thatyet, but even put it out to a
few of your people to kind ofplay around and playing with
prompts is a blast.
I love sitting here and justgetting really creative with my
prompts to see what the resultsare.
(17:14):
But I love that because thatwould ease a leader in to
getting out of that fear factorand kind of just seeing what it
can lend itself to improving thebusiness, because there's a
great application of it.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Well, yes, and of course, each business is unique.
Their challenges are unique.
I think one of the dangers andwe'll talk a bit more about DEI,
but they say that IBM dealswith a million CVs a year, so
clearly that they, they, theyneed some help, unless they're
(17:52):
going to employ, you know, andpeople aren't going to do that,
so but it's it's.
Where is, where are thecriteria, and what is it that
you're going to miss by havingan AI do the sifting?
Because you will.
You will miss some things, andmaybe that's just how it is.
(18:13):
That's the cost of it, but Ithink there's a sadness in there
, because we lose our humanity.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I just heard a news brief yesterday that AI chatbots
are being developed with suchhuman emotion to where a young
boy just committed suicidebecause he had this relationship
(18:42):
with what he thought was a realperson.
And so I do think the AI mostof us are using, especially from
a business applicationperspective, probably still is
very robotic and doesn't havethat human emotional touch, but
it's coming.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
It really is coming, bernadette and I mean British
Telecom, one of the biggesttelecoms businesses in this
country, announced a while backthey're laying off 10,000 people
and replacing them with AI,particularly around customer
interface.
Because, for the very reasonyou're saying, the AI can be set
up in such a way that it showsmore empathy in dealing with
(19:23):
people than without.
The difficulty is, you know, Idon't know what it's like for
you, but when I get sort ofchatting with a bot which seems
to happen far too frequently itgets me so irritated so quickly
because you hit up against theirlimitations.
(19:43):
Now, over a period of time, itis going to improve, but at the
moment there are far too manydecisions being made by machines
to the detriment of actuallythe customer.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
And you know there's an old comedian comedy skit from
some years ago in this country,where you know the guy.
The guy goes in to the bankmanager you know assistant and
he sits across the table and andthe chap says what do you want?
He says, well, I'd like toborrow a thousand dollars.
So the guy types in thousanddollars in that.
(20:24):
And then then he turns to thechap and says the computer says
no.
So he says, well, how, about500 pounds?
You know, can I borrow 500?
The computer says no, andthat's it.
And it's like there's so manythings.
It's like insurance companies,you know, can you get insurance
(20:47):
on something?
No, can I get an explanation?
No, the computer said no.
We're in a kind of dystopia inthat sense.
Yes, we can make it empathize,but we don't have the
underpinning thinking thataddresses us as humans with
(21:09):
needs.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
What recommendations do you give leaders to balance
that out?
Yes, there's places you canautomate that don't require a
human emotional connection, butthen there's other places where
it's important for you to stillhave that service touch.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Wow.
Well, that's a big question ina sense, and I suppose the
challenge is how much of a humando you want to be?
Because one of the aspects ofAI is that there are going to be
people who make a ton of moneyusing AI Right Now.
That's great for those thatmake the money, if that's what
(21:54):
you want, but it also creates awhole greater division.
You know the pandemic happenedhas created huge divisions,
divisions in society, and ai isdoing it more.
It's amplifying it.
So there's the haves and thehave-nots, and so if you're the
(22:15):
ceo of an organization and youwant to to implement ai, more
power to you.
I understand completely and Ican see the potential benefits
and, at the same time, what doesthat mean to your people?
You know they're saying now,for instance, in law firms, that
an awful lot of the drudgery ofresearch in looking for
(22:38):
precedents and stuff like thatcan be done by AI Incredibly
efficient, very fast, brilliant.
But what happens to all thepeople who are interns and young
aspiring lawyers who are notgoing to have that experience,
(22:59):
right, right, going to come from, and what is their route of
experience?
What is good, was it?
What is it going to be, and howmany of those interns actually
are not going to be taken on atall now, because ai is going to
be doing that job.
So I think one of the thereally important sort of
questions around this is whatare the unintended consequences
(23:22):
of whatever it is that you'rethinking of doing or
implementing?
Because, believe me, there willbe unintended consequences.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
So that's a great question for a leader to ask,
right that's a great questionfor a leader to ask and, with
their leadership team his or herleadership team what are the
unintended consequences based onthe decisions we're making?
Speaker 3 (23:47):
I can tell you, as a facilitator, where I facilitate
off sites of C-suite teams allthe time, that's a question they
hate, they don't want to thinkabout it.
Yeah, Don't bother me with that.
I know where we're going andit's like be careful.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
There's enough divisiveness in the world right
now.
We need to be careful thatwe're not just ripping out the
fabric of humanity with some ofthe decisions that we're making
and, sadly, you can look aroundand just find it in too many
places at the moment.
So let's move on to DEI,because that's an area that's
(24:29):
getting totally ripped apart aswell.
So when you say the backlash ofDEI, help us understand that.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Well with George Floyd and I mean, I don't know,
you can start at any point ifyou like, but I remember when he
was murdered, a number ofcompanies phoned me and said, oh
, look, we, we, we need to dosome work around Black Lives
Matter.
So so they're phoning up andsaying, look, black Lives Matter
, come and run a thing on that.
And I'm saying, yeah, but inwhat context?
(25:02):
What are you actually trying todo here?
Are you trying to do the annualvaccination of, in this case,
black Lives Matter?
Or, you know, integratingracial, having racial justice,
or something?
These are such deeply heldbiases, conditioning, that we
(25:23):
all have.
We all have Through ourconditioning, we have have, we
all have through ourconditioning.
We have been brought up inparticular ways and you're not
going to do it in an hourseminar.
You're not going to do in aweek's seminar.
This is something that this isa is a developmental process and
the only real way to, as I seeit, to get on that bus properly
(25:46):
is to say, right, we're gonna,we're gonna change the culture
in this organization and we'regonna work with people and we're
gonna look at what is it thatmakes people react negatively to
someone else, and this.
This is difficult work.
So you've got some companiesgoing on to the backlash that
(26:09):
are really working with this.
They're keeping going.
In the UK, the last governmentdecided that diversity was a
waste of time, it was a waste ofmoney, a waste of effort, and
so they told people to stopspending money on it, in the
National Health Service, forinstance, and in the civil
(26:30):
service.
And it's like there's a ton ofcompanies that have set up and
said you know, call me, I can, Ican make your organization
diverse and happy, and blah,blah, blah.
Of course they can't.
And the snake oil salesmen oftoday in a sense.
But there is good work that canbe done.
(26:52):
But rather like the Me Toomovement, after that came out,
there was this huge pushback andit's got larger and larger, to
the extent now that there's lesswomen, certainly in the Fortune
, I think in the Fortune 500,but certainly in the UK
equivalent of women on boardsthe dying throes of an old
(27:28):
system saying I'm not going tochange, I'm going to keep things
the way that I want thembecause it works for me, right?
So this is deeply vestedinterest stuff and forgive me,
but this is the dysfunctionalmasculine that has ruled for
many, many, many years and hasbeen challenged by a very
(27:52):
powerful but actually quitedysfunctional feminine that now
says I can do everything.
So the masculine says well, ifyou can do everything, where do
I sit in all this?
No, no, ma'am, go away.
So there's the gender, there'sthe race, there's disabilities,
there's neurodivergence, allthese aspects which, coming back
(28:16):
to sort of leading from within,these are huge challenges for
leaders today, right?
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Do you find that a company that just rips it out
without any really intentionalthought and consideration?
They rip out their DEI.
Are they finding backlash innot only how their people are
responding to it but more so howtheir culture is changing?
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Well, you know, when you look at a pendulum, it
swings and it swings quiteslowly.
So the reactions, and thereactions to the reactions are
taking a while, are taking awhile.
But you only have to look at anorganization like Patagonia,
which is, you know, for me isone of the greatest success
(29:12):
stories in the corporate world.
They don't follow convention,all they do is follow their
passion and it just works sobeautifully.
It works so beautifully.
So in an organization where, Imean a good example at the
moment is the companies that aresaying to their workforce right
(29:37):
, you come back five days a week, we want you in the office.
Okay, where a lot of peoplefound that during the pandemic,
not everybody, not everyone.
When you're sitting with threechildren in the same room and
you're sitting on the end of abed trying to do your work, it
ain't easy.
But for an awful lot of people,working from home was a huge
(29:58):
benefit, not least because theydidn't have to commute into work
.
But the other side of that isI'm the manager, I need to
control what's going on, and ifthey're at home, then they're
not doing their work.
That is the fundamentalmistrust assumption, whereas
actually somebody's saying, yeah, I'm not working nine to five.
(30:20):
I've got other things I need todo in the household, but I'll
work from six till late in theevening, until and I'll get my
and, what's more, I'll be moreeffective, more efficient and
all the rest of it.
So.
So that's a backlash.
We need you back in the office.
But none of these things areright or wrong, black or white.
(30:42):
White, because actually thereare interchanges that take place
in the office which you need tohave.
You get somebody who comes outof university during the
pandemic, joins an organizationhe's never been into the office
not even yet has he ever beeninto the office so he's losing,
or she uh, all the, all, the,the, the social interactions and
(31:07):
also learnings that go on inthe office.
So you need a bit of both.
You need this sense of balanceof how do we get the best out of
the situation, how do we getthe best out of the people, and
sometimes that well, I thinkthat each company will find its
own balance.
But when you get the autocraticperson which I referred to
(31:30):
right at the beginning who says,no, we need them all in the
office all the time, that is thecontrol mechanism, it's not one
that's being done for the bestthings in the business.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Well, and I like what you said about the fact that
not only control, but it's nottrust, it's distrusting of their
own people, that they have toput the hammer down and be it's
my way or no way.
That in itself is a huge issueand a huge implication not only
to the health of the individual,the employees and the
(32:04):
productivity and effectivenessand efficiency.
Not only to the health of theindividual, the employees and
the productivity andeffectiveness and efficiency,
not only to the business, butalso to that leader, because
sooner or later that type ofleader is not going to succeed.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Well, you see, historically you go back to Jack
Welsh and all that style.
A lot of people still go to hisbooks and quote him and that.
So there are still people whohold up that kind of leadership
as the way forward.
It has died.
Sure, if people haven't heardthat it has died.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So let it die.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
But there are still people trying to resuscitate the
body because they they see thatgreat success came out of that.
But if you look at a lot of thereally amazing, powerful
leaders who led like that, whenthey retired or died or whatever
, there was no one to take overand it left a vacuum which was
(33:04):
actually very, very damaging forthose organizations.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Absolutely Well.
This has been fabulous, but Iwant to be sure.
We've talked a lot about AI.
We talked about the AI, we'vetalked about change.
What would one thing be basedon everything that we talked
about, based on leading fromwithin, that you would leave
with our corporate leaders thatare listening and watching?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I once had to go and visit an important grand CEO of
a very large organization and wehad 15 minutes with him.
And what really struck me, aswe walked into this grand office
and walked up to his desk andthere were two chairs there and
we sat down, his desk was clear.
(33:52):
There was no computer.
There was.
Well, it was closed, you know.
And he said, right, gentlemen,what can I do for you?
And for those 15 minutes he hadour end of the detention.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
We had his end of it.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
It was a two-way thing and at the end of that the
time was up and it was up.
You know, he held his boundary,finished out the door, finish
out the door.
So what I take from that is thegreatest gift that you can give
to another human being is yourfull presence, love that Agreed.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Love it, love it, love it, love it.
Thank you, tom.
This has been absolutelyfabulous and I want to make sure
everyone knows.
Be sure to go toserenityandleadershipcom.
Learn all about Tom and thework that they do and the
services that they provide.
At the same time, be sure tofollow him on LinkedIn.
You could simply go to TomDennis and that's T-H-O-M.
(34:59):
Tom Dennis and follow him onLinkedIn.
Tom, thank you so much for this.
It's been fabulous.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Bernadette, thank you , it's been lovely speaking with
you, really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
You're welcome.
Tom Dennis of Serenity andLeadership is a powerhouse.
What a hard discussion kind ofone that really should get us
all concerned, shake us in theboots, and very focused on
wanting to make changes withinour organizations, whether that
is at a team level or thebusiness as a whole.
(35:30):
Tom really talked about thefact that change is speeding up.
When he said that right now,what we're all going through and
what we haven't gone throughfor the last several years, it
has been slow compared to whatit's going to be like when we go
forward I kind of startedgasping for air.
However, that's a reality weall need to consider, especially
(35:55):
as leaders.
We need to be flexible,adaptable.
We need to be present with ourpeople to understand just what
they're going through and whatthe business is going through,
so then we can all walk throughit very successfully.
Tom also mentioned thatleadership is moving to the
(36:16):
heart.
It's getting away from the oldbureaucracy and the old ways of
doing things that were all it'smy way or no way, and really
moving more toward leading withthe heart, being empathetic,
meeting our people where theyare, walking in their shoes,
(36:38):
wanting to bring them along, asopposed to just make sure that
they're doing what they're doing.
Then he went on to discuss keythings like AI and climate
change, and then even DEI andwhat needs to happen there.
As opposed to ripping it out,leaders have to be intentional
and purposeful and thoughtfularound how do we integrate it
(37:02):
into our culture so we don'thave to have a standalone DEI
initiative or platform.
And he even challenged leadersto think about do you care?
Do you even care to lead fromthe heart?
Do you care that your employeesare people and that it's not
just about getting the work done, but it's about what is best
(37:26):
and how to get the best out ofthe people that are doing the
work that's making yousuccessful?
It was eye-opening.
What did you take away?
What were your thoughts, whatare your views, what are your
challenges to our discussiontoday?
Follow me on LinkedIn, justsimply at BernadetteBose, and
send me a DM and let me knowwhat your views or opinions or
(37:48):
ideas are in regards to what wediscussed today on Shaking the
Corporate Bench.
At the same time, should you orsomeone on your team be
struggling and want to reallyunderstand how can you take
control of the direction of yourorganization through all of
these trying times, then be sureto reach out and let's have a
(38:09):
conversation about it.
Go to coachmubernadettecom.
Forward slash discovery calland let me give you some tips
and strategies and ideas for howyou can be making an impact
while, at the same time, reallysupporting your team and your
organization through any type ofchange.
I'll look forward to having youfor another episode of Shedding
(38:31):
the Corporate Bitch.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Bye.
Thank you for tuning intotoday's episode of Shedding the
Corporate Bitch.
Every journey taken together isanother step towards unleashing
the powerhouse leader withinyou.
Don't miss any of our weeklyepisodes.
Subscribe to our podcast onApple Podcasts, spotify or
wherever you love to listen.
And for those who thrive onvisual content, catch us on our
Shedding the Bitch YouTubechannel.
(38:52):
Want to dive deeper withBernadette on becoming a
powerhouse leader?
Visit balloffirecoachingcom tolearn more about how she helps
professionals, hr executives andteam leaders elevate overall
team performance.
You've been listening to Shed.
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