February 15, 2025 • 36 mins
Understanding the Role of a Deacon with Bishop Michael Hunn and Deacon Athena Gassoumis Join Bishop Michael Hunn of the Diocese of the Rio Grande as he sits down with Deacon Athena Gassoumis to discuss the true essence and calling of a deacon. They delve into the differences between deacons, priests, and laypersons, shedding light on the crucial role deacons play in community service, justice, and compassion. Athena shares her life journey, experiences, and the impactful work she does both in her community and with those facing legal and detention challenges. This insightful conversation reveals the heart of diaconal ministry and its significance in the modern world.
00:00 Introduction to the Role of a Deacon
00:45 Meet Deacon Athena Gassoumis
01:04 Understanding the Diaconate
01:46 Athena's Early Life and Calling
04:30 The Deacon's Mission in the World
09:46 Daily Work and Community Impact
13:59 Building Trust and Providing Support
16:43 The Role of the Episcopal Church
20:46 The Deacon's Leadership and Influence
28:18 A Call to Serve and Engage
34:51 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think one of the aspects that might be not necessary, but certainly part of a person's personality for being a deacon is. 2 00:00:14,549.999 --> 00:00:19,475 And that's a great example of kind of helping people understand the role of the deacon.
My job as a deacon and our jobs as deacons.
(00:28):
Welcome to the Simply Christian Life, this is Bishop Michael Hunn, the Bishop of the Diocese of the Rio Grande, which encompasses all of New Mexico and the far west part of Texas.
.999Today, what is a deacon? Hello there, Diocese of the Rio Grande, I'm sure you remember Deacon Athena Gassoumis.
(00:50):
Yes.
It's a joy to be with you again.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Bishop.
Wonderful to be with you and the diocese.
There are two special reasons why I was really eager to talk to you and why I wanted to make sure we're talking to the diocese.
One is, you have really discerned that the diaconate in a permanent way is where you're called to be.
(01:12):
And I want to talk a little bit about the, about that decision, but also in a bigger way.
There's a lot of confusion, I think, I hear in people.
What's the, what is a deacon, what's the difference between a deacon and a priest, a lay person and a deacon? And I'd really like for you to share with us your whole life and the way in which your ministry unfolds.
(01:34):
Because it's a wonderful example of a deacon and what she does and how that work unfolds and And so we'll just get started and then let the wow.
.999Well, I think the first thing, one of the first things I was thinking is I always carry a pen and I always carry a little Athena to do.
(01:55):
I like it.
And that's because I'm in community and so gathering phone numbers, getting a phone call.
Who am I meeting? I can't always remember.
.9And so, yeah.
All my shirts, including this, of course, my clergy shirt, have this ability.
(02:16):
What I have learned my whole life, and this is something my mother had shared with me, and I may have shared this before.
She said when I was a little girl that In our big doors in Greece in our house, I would open them up at the crack of dawn and go and meet with the fishermen and just be out in community and then I go to the bakery and then I, so I would be up at the crack of dawn, which I still am being out in the community, just Being with people.
(02:54):
And so she often reminds me to this day, Athena, you are doing today what you did from the earliest time that she could remember and You know, that makes me think I've often talked with the Commission on Ministry about the nature of Ordination and ministry Sometimes people who are doing discernment like on the commission on ministry or the standing committee or I've even seen bishops do this where they think it's the job of the church to decide.
(03:27):
Are you this? Are you that? I tend to look at it more like your mother in the sense that I think we are being called by the Holy Spirit to be who we were made to be.
And if one is called to the priesthood or to the deaconate We can see sort of signs of priestly things that we've done our whole life, signs of the diaconal things that we've done our whole life.
(03:52):
.999When we're called to lay ministry, we are called to lean deeper into our joys and passions and the things that we do.
And so it's just, I love now having this image of you as a little, how old were you when you would like, Probably like four, four and five, you know, five I was sent to school, but so probably younger than that.
(04:14):
And it was a safe enough place where you were growing up in Greece that it was a little island, so everybody, So everybody knew who you were and all that.
But you would be out there doing what you're doing right now, basically, knitting community together. 32 00:04:28,75.1 --> 00:04:29,324.9 Yeah.
And so.
.999while I was having my, frappe mocha just now, I was thinking about this question and, and trying to sort of put it all together and what some of the conversation we had on the way to the detention center was that I think because I grew up in a very specific location in the world, um, with a very specific spirituality and religion, but also understanding that I knew where I was in the world from a very young age, and so having a sort of global perspective on a location, and having, being surrounded by the Orthodox Church, being surrounded by being raised by a village, you know, and then experiencing the world, what I realize is that I think one of the aspects that might be be not necessary, but certainly part of a person's personality for being a deacon, is to be outgoing and not afraid of the world.
(05:43):
.999So to be in the world, because that's our call, is to be in the world, to be Jesus's, well to carry the gospel, and to carry the love, and to be the vehicle and of Jesus's love, compassion, and justice, and then bringing all of that, which encompasses the smells, and the tastes, and the feelings of what we experience in the world, and being the link back, and discerning, okay, what do we do with this? Having um, A global perspective, but really more than anything, not being afraid to touch people because people are sentient beings, we smell, we taste, we do all of that, and to not be afraid to be the Beatitudes really in the world and very specifically having, walking evangelically Um, in a way where people can sense that you do love them and they may smell wonderful or they may not smell so wonderful, but like you experienced today in the detention center.
(07:15):
We're all children of God.
.999Some may be, um, more hurt than others, more wounded than others, but for a deacon, um, being a baptized member of the Episcopal Church means that it's my interaction in the world and how I communicate that back to our community of faith and how do we discern what the needs are.
(07:46):
Um, But really and truly to not, to not be afraid of a person because when you sit down, if you had sat down with any one of the people that you met today or saw today, you would love them.
.999You would because you would see them as a brother or a sister. 40 00:08:07,954.999 --> 00:08:29,99.999 It's only when they become a label, they become a particular population of otherness that um, Transcribed Then the, then the separation happens, you know, but one on one, you know, I think that my job as a deacon and our jobs as deacons is.
(08:29):
.9Really, the Beatitudes, I think, are so meaningful, and understanding how Jesus presented them to the masses is not necessarily how we always read them, or how we're taught, um, but I, I believe walking, walking that walk, and just helping people say, how do we make a difference.
(08:55):
this community better.
Um, well, it seems to me that two, two of the liturgical pieces, which a deacon does right in line with that, which is, as you were talking about the movement of going out into the world, and this is something you've Talk to me a lot about, about, I don't want to not be always out among the people.
(09:16):
.74576923And there's something about the way the deacon takes the gospel into the middle of the assembly, right? Which is, which is the assembly of course, yes, has the baptized there, but it also has people who may not be baptized or who brand new or who visitors there's the whole, like the, the deacon is carried, literally carrying the gospel right into the middle of the people. 45 00:09:34,135.74576923 --> 00:09:36,904.9 And then of course, at the end of the liturgy.
(09:37):
Follow me.
Let's go.
Now it's time to go out into the world.
And so it's the deacon that really has that tug out into the world.
Um, and, and so tell us more about your, your day job and the work that you do here in Socorro and around this county.
(09:58):
So, I run a compliance office.
Which is basically not adult probation.
Adult probation tends to be people that have felonies.
I, we work with people that have non felonies, but can, it can turn into a felony depending on the court.
So I have, in our office, we touch on a regular basis, 350 people, including the 80 to a hundred in the detention center.
(10:29):
.999And so what we do is literally help people navigate their, um, their legal issues.
But in the time that they're navigating that, we also touch them in a way to say, what got you here, what might help you recognize you don't have to come back, what might you need to ensure you don't come back.
(10:58):
Um, so it's really wraparound services that include basically just one on one encounter with people to say, What do you need? Do you even know what you need? Most of the time they can't particularly articulate what they need.
So, um, so there's that and then there's the detention center component where we do the same thing in detention.
(11:26):
.999What do you need to ensure you don't come back? What services for your family, medical, psychiatric, behavioral health, mental health, physical health, what do you need to ensure you can reach your fullest potential? In the detention center, out of the detention center, um, making sure people understand even if they go to prison, prison can offer lots of opportunities.
(11:54):
.999So if they recognize their consequences are based on yesterday, that today is a new day. 62 00:12:02,669.999 --> 00:12:06,529.999 So you're just cleaning up yesterday, you don't have to bring yesterday into today. 63 00:12:07,289.999 --> 00:12:12,830 Um, so that's pretty 20 years here.
And, um.
(12:15):
And it's amazing today, I mean we had a chance to, thank you for taking me to the detention center.
And we got to meet some of the folks and say hello, um, to them. 67 00:12:25,589.999 --> 00:13:02,525 And we were talking about The nature of this county, and the amount of the county budget that is spent working on folks who are, working with folks who are recovering from addiction, who have experienced some sort of a criminal, um, behavior, as well, often, you know, Recovering from trauma themselves, coming out of family systems that may have addiction in them, and the cycles of that, which your work is trying to kind of, let's interrupt that cycle, and see if we can bring about wholeness to the individual. 68 00:13:02,914.999 --> 00:13:10,105 And it was just wonderful being with you and, uh, And the guard, is that what we would call him? Yeah.
(13:10):
Who was there, who took us through the detention officer.
Yeah.
.999Who, who was wonderful and, um, and got to meet some of the people there at least briefly, but I got a real window into the nature of the way you work with folks.
So, so talk a little bit about kind of what the, what that is like at the County level here.
We're in, we're in Socorro and so this is Socorro County.
(13:32):
And, um, tell us a little bit about the.
How you work with people in terms of kind of paying back to society and the interruption of that cycle.
Okay.
Um, well I have multiple hats.
I have an administrative hat, I have a clinical hat, and then I hat just, most people just know me as Athena now.
(13:57):
Yeah.
For so many years.
And so there's, it takes a long time for people to develop trust.
So there's consistency that's required.
There's continuity that's required.
There's the ability to be able to follow through with an individual and for them to see that if I say something, I can kind of make it happen as a partnership.
(14:27):
You know, they have to sort of meet me 50 50, you know, it's a sort of halfway.
So.
Interrupting criminal and addictive behavior, first of all, is a long journey, takes a long time. 88 00:14:42,474.999 --> 00:14:50,555 Um, building trust with individuals, um, is probably the most important thing.
(14:51):
And so as, I think just as a personality, if you go open handedly and open, with an open heart, Folks in detention and have been in the, I'll call it that life, this lifestyle, really know how to sense people because it's survival.
(15:13):
So they can pick up on somebody's, whether they're genuine or not, or whether they're safe or not.
So that acts in a way to our advantage because if you come and meet with an individual with an open hand and an open heart, The trust usually happens right away because they know they don't have to watch their back with me.
(15:37):
So the work can begin usually oftentimes right away and then they see me again or they see the staff again or they see that people like yourself come in and we say that we love you and we're going to follow through on this and then This is their list.
So we have our list.
(15:58):
They have their list.
I heard them talking today about, yep, we were in class today.
We got some homework.
We'll see you Tuesday.
There's very much a sense of like there's there's progress and you're kind of walking alongside accompanying them on this journey where they're recovering.
Their sense of worth and identity and humanness in some ways.
(16:18):
And they know that it's a walk together.
Yeah.
So, you know.
You're not against them in this or holding the bar they have to jump over.
There's a real sense of like. 105 00:16:28,519.999 --> 00:16:29,630 It's everything that they do.
Their behavior pretty much dictates everything. 107 00:16:32,160.1 --> 00:16:34,390 Especially in a detention center.
But it's, it's work that I love.
It's work that I've done.
(16:38):
.999And that work translates into everything in the community.
You know, whether it's people at Walmart or, you know, I think, um, part of the financial and emotional and spiritual gain of a church and community is for the community to know what you do. 112 00:17:01,354.999 --> 00:17:10,515 So we talked about this as well, that if the community truly knows that you're praying for them, they're going to support you.
(17:11):
They'll support you financially.
They'll support you by coming and assisting in a project.
Um, and this is what we cultivate through the RISE program that we talked about, Reach, Intervene, Support, and Engage. 116 00:17:23,964.999 --> 00:17:37,010 That, um, if people know that you're engaged in their life, whether it's unseen, but they know it's happening, they're going to support you.
(17:37):
At St.
Paul's this works incredibly because the community financially supports the church, um, in a way that I've never quite experienced because they know what we do, what we do for the community.
Talk a little bit about that relationship and how that all works because it's a, it's a great example of the impact an Episcopal church can have.
(18:03):
beyond the members who are a part of it? The members that we have, the congregational membership that we have, is already sort of very active in the community.
So they, in their own, in their own way, um, express the love of who we are in the community.
(18:25):
And then my role as a deacon is Just to, to nurture that, to just nurture what's already being done, but also oftentimes to be in my collar and walk around so they kind of go, you know, like, who's that, you know, well, and that's a great example of kind of helping people understand the role of the deacon. 123 00:18:47,774.999 --> 00:18:49,474.9 I often think people think of. 124 00:18:49,475.1 --> 00:18:56,615 Um, lay person, deacon, priest, bishop as a hierarchy that has to do with power and all that kind of stuff.
(18:56):
And I'm really trying to help people understand that the, uh, I think a better way to think about that is location within the body of Christ and clarity of role.
So it is literally the case that the lay people at St.
Paul's truth or consequences are out in and among.
The community, they are worshiping on Sunday.
(19:17):
Yes, but they are also then Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, interacting with neighbors, but they're also seeing The people on the street responding to them with love.
They're concerned about the people who may be incarcerated.
And so they may not know exactly what to do about that or how that might work, but their hearts are warmed by that.
They see their community, which may have friction and tension with respect to local politics or what, whatever the issues are in the community.
(19:45):
You know, the, if there is, if there were to be a problem at the school or anything that's happening in that area, the Episcopal, the Episcopalians are out there in the world.
Right.
Being light, being salt, lifting up, um, bringing their hearts and their resources to help sort of lift up the community. 136 00:20:07,999.999 --> 00:20:10,250 And then you as a deacon.
(20:11):
Help them do that, right? Which sometimes can be, Hey, this is how we can work with those who are incarcerated. 138 00:20:17,570.1 --> 00:20:23,829.999 And you have some gifts and skills and background and relationships that you can rely on for that. 139 00:20:23,889.999 --> 00:20:34,040 Or let me help you get organized to do that project or bringing information about, Hey, there's a thing over here that maybe we haven't noticed, but let's see if we can.
(20:34):
make a difference.
So there's a, almost a community organizing function of a deacon where the community relies on you to help us all do the work God is calling us to do. 142 00:20:46,109.999 --> 00:20:57,940 Is that? No, I think you're absolutely right that it is a leadership role in the ministry of justice and compassion, both in the church, but more so on the outside.
(20:57):
So like you said, to have the role to help.
People, if I'm bringing an issue back to be discerned, nothing's going to happen unless I have people around me that say, okay, let's discern this together and see how we can fix it.
.999So, um, or not fix it, but at least, you know, participate in, in solving an issue or at least helping out in an issue. 146 00:21:23,149.999 --> 00:21:30,490 And maybe if you hadn't brought that issue in, either the community may not have noticed it, or they may have noticed it, but just been kind of too timid.
(21:31):
To kind of take it on, but, but part of the deacon's role is to say, Hey.
We can do this.
Let's talk about it.
Let's discern what we might do and to kind of be the catalyst that helps motivate the body of Christ.
Again, as you say, outside the walls of the church. 152 00:21:47,44.999 --> 00:21:53,085 And I remember vividly when we were, we were having this conversation, because for a long time, at least as long as I've been a bishop.
(21:53):
You and I have been back and forth and back and forth about priesthood, the acronym, what is this about? And all this kind of thing.
And I remember, I don't know if this was the case for you, but I have this vivid memory of a single conversation that we had in a series of conversations in which we were talking about, okay, if you're, if you're going to be ordained a priest, the expectation of the church is you're going to be focused on a church community Part time, quarter time, half time, what have you and your primary role and identity will be to be working in that church to help provide the Eucharist and plan liturgies and all that kind of stuff and I kind of watched your face go like I don't want to do that I don't want to give up being out in the world with the people that I'm and and it just sort of I think it Dawned on me.
(22:37):
Maybe it was already clear to you, but it it sort of dawned on me in that conversation that That what you were doing that your call consistently is to be outside the walls nurturing that and you come inside the church to help the church go out exactly and and it it is I Mean you can say how it felt to you to me.
(22:57):
It has felt like once we figured out clarity about that That there's sort of a lightness that came into you.
I grew into, then, my spirituality kind of came out of a box.
It was like, in a positive way, opening Pandora's box. 159 00:23:18,214.999 --> 00:23:48,270 And allowing the spirit to be fully, how do I now grow in to being ordained? Because that's a huge responsibility, spiritually, and the accountability I have from my relationship and intimacy with God and how I pray and how, what I ask, not what I ask for, but my relationship with Jesus now has to be, you know.
(23:48):
of servanthood, but not in a way, because the word servant just has really negative connotations, but ultimately my prayer every day is, how do I do thy will today? Show me the best way to do what you ask me to do through the beatitudes that you have shared.
(24:09):
Um, how can I be a leader, excuse me, a leader and a role model in that? Blessed are the poor, blessed are the meek.
You are called to see that and to, you're drawn into that in a very special and powerful way.
But, you know, somebody that's affluent and educated emotionally can have all of those things within them.
(24:32):
So, you know, we tend to think that it's, it's only as like a certain demographic.
But, you know, we know that it carries through our whole, what it means to be in the human condition, right? Right.
It's not just about income level or tax bracket or anything like that.
.999There's, there's struggle and conflict and pain and trauma and addiction and, and dysfunction in, in all of us human beings. 168 00:24:59,349.999 --> 00:24:59,679.999 Yeah.
(25:00):
But I think when you spoke about, you know, bringing the gospel into the congregation and into the world.
Grasping once the decision was discerned, once we discerned the decision, all of a sudden realizing the, the importance and the beauty and the love that comes from having, uh, I guess you could say, be given the, the sacrament of the gospel in community and in the congregation is, um, was actually quite incredible, you know? Yeah.
(25:42):
No, it is because it's, it's, it's not a role.
.999It's who you are, but then when you're doing this, it's really, you know, if, if you're reading these words, they're not words.
.999It's like, how do we embody what's being said? Yeah.
You know, what we're reading.
How do we embody that? How do we truly the hands and feet? That Jesus wants us to be in community and, um, and have it then be liturgically what happens, you know, the whole liturgy that we have is so beautiful, and the choreography, the spiritual choreography that happens with that, you know, that this is like, okay.
(26:23):
We're hearing this and then, then we're going to receive it.
Mm-hmm You know, so it's beautiful.
It brings to, you know me, I'm a weeper.
Yeah.
Oh, I think it's beautiful.
That's beautiful.
Well, and it, and it does, I mean, I think there's a fullness present when you, when, when in our liturgy we have the laity gathered.
Right.
And remember laity is, is, for those of you who don't remember laity, it means the people of God.
(26:47):
So we're all a part of the Laos.
Right.
That's why I like the idea that, um, it's about where are you located within the assembly? We are all a part of the assembly.
.999We're all a part of the body of Christ.
And when you have the laity present and you have a deacon and a priest, you've, you've got the fullness of the expression of the various roles of leadership, their lay leadership.
(27:13):
.999Deaconal leadership and priestly leadership, which, um, if you, if you have a priest, the, the priest is also a deacon, but if that priest is really focused on my job is to look after the community and the inside the churchy bits, then sometimes we don't have that emphasis on what you bring in its fullness by focusing all, all the time on being out in the world and drawing us out in the world, you know, I mean, it was such a blessing to me.
(27:44):
You open the doors to me as a bishop to the detention center in a way that I've been to detention centers before, but quite frankly, I couldn't have opened that door and wouldn't have known exactly how, and I would have felt a little sheepish about it, even though I know, and I pray for those in prison as Jesus called us to do, right? We're all supposed to visit those who are in prison. 192 00:28:03,935.1 --> 00:28:12,925 But you, with your diaconal authority, open that door, literally, for me, to walk into and experience a place of ministry.
(28:13):
That would have been inaccessible to me had you not led me there literally, you know what I mean? And so I think I think there's an important part and part of the reason i'm I would love to raise up more deacons in the church And part of the reason why I as the bishop i'd like to help people understand If you are a person who feels constantly drawn into the world and you come to church to be fed, yes, but you feel constantly drawn to like, I want to figure out how I can learn the skill set to organize folks and engage in issues in the place. 194 00:28:46,624.999 --> 00:28:54,390 How can I help a community discern that draw? then maybe the diaconate is, is the place where you're called to be formed.
(28:54):
Um, cause we need that leadership.
.9And I think, you know, we have fewer than 10 full time active deacons in the diocese right now for 50 congregations.
I would love, I mean, every priest is a deacon. 198 00:29:05,919.999 --> 00:29:35,244.999 Yes, we have that, but it's also true that the priest is focused primarily on Kind of the teaching ministry and the liturgical sacramental planning and organizing, sometimes the leadership pieces of sort of running the church as a business operation, sort of, and the deacon has this Freedom to keep our focus outside the door and, and working with people in the community, which it's, we need the leadership that you're doing.
(29:35):
And it's so fun to be working alongside you because you keep opening up ways for me to come and encounter folks that I couldn't do otherwise. 200 00:29:44,554.999 --> 00:29:45,794.999 Well, that's wonderful. 201 00:29:45,844.999 --> 00:29:47,44.999 I'm really happy about that.
And I think, I think we could also maybe call Deacons the go to. 203 00:29:53,945.0625 --> 00:30:02,585.0625 Because I know that sometimes if there issues in a congregation or people just don't know, like there's this person or that person. 204 00:30:04,125.0625 --> 00:30:15,285.0625 Maybe the, the priest knows or doesn't or it's not, but the deacon, I think part of the role is the go to because I'm the go to in community and I'm also the go to in the congregation. 205 00:30:15,755.0625 --> 00:30:16,395.0625 True, true. 206 00:30:16,705.0625 --> 00:30:29,545.0625 And that's what the, that's what this is about, right? There's a public way in which people can come to you as an ordained minister, one who is set aside in a different location in the thing, with a leadership role in that area. 207 00:30:29,555.0625 --> 00:30:38,225.0625 So they can come to you and say, what's going on about this? Or, yeah, what do we do about that? Or can I talk to father or mother so and so, but I don't really know how to approach them. 208 00:30:38,225.1625 --> 00:30:39,634.9625 Yeah. 209 00:30:39,635.0625 --> 00:30:41,865.0625 We can be the, be the buffer end. 210 00:30:43,105.0625 --> 00:30:50,595.0625 And this sort of intervention person, too, you know, so, um, you know, intervention is a great word for a deacon. 211 00:30:50,895.0625 --> 00:31:02,95.0625 It seems to me that that part of what that courage you're talking about, being willing to go out into the world, maybe, maybe part of the charism is an intervention, kind of a spirit. 212 00:31:02,550.0625 --> 00:31:02,750.0625 Yeah. 213 00:31:02,800.0625 --> 00:31:10,550.0625 That, uh, a lot of us see what's going on as we drive through and there are people that we're aware of who are on the street or they're hungry or that kind of a thing. 214 00:31:11,60.0625 --> 00:31:26,120.0625 But I think part of the diaconal charism is to, to actually intervene, to figure out how to do that and to help us intervene as a church and, and then to also help, like you say, intervene between the, I don't know how to talk to the priest about this or who should I, whatever. 215 00:31:26,160.0625 --> 00:31:26,500.0625 Yeah. 216 00:31:26,500.1625 --> 00:31:26,685.0625 Yeah. 217 00:31:26,685.0625 --> 00:31:26,869.9625 Yeah. 218 00:31:26,870.0625 --> 00:31:27,260.0625 Yeah. 219 00:31:28,350.0625 --> 00:31:52,80.0625 Well, I'm, I'm hoping that those of you that are watching this and maybe have, are discerning a call will really and truly think about, um, do you have the courage, you know, and are you spiritually called for this because it is exciting and wonderful and beautiful and people are beautiful. 220 00:31:52,110.0625 --> 00:31:52,980.0625 They really are. 221 00:31:52,990.0625 --> 00:31:58,40.0615 I mean, do they get on my nerves sometimes, of course, but ultimately. 222 00:31:58,610.0625 --> 00:32:07,580.0625 You know, we're here on this very fragile planet together, you know, whether animal, plant, or human, or two legged. 223 00:32:08,190.0625 --> 00:32:15,360.0615 It's really important that we learn how to support and care for one another and nurture one another. 224 00:32:15,950.0615 --> 00:32:35,500.0625 Um, and I think, um, this is, this is a really pivotal important, I can't, I don't know, there's got to be a better word than important, but it's a, it's, it's really kind of a make or break time, I think, of transition. 225 00:32:35,730.0615 --> 00:32:53,890.0625 It's an incredible transition at the moment, and I think it's going to take all of us, whatever our roles are, um, child, sister, mother, daughter, son, whatever it is, to really say, okay, we have to make sure that, that we nurture. 226 00:32:54,395.0625 --> 00:32:54,775.0625 Yeah. 227 00:32:54,895.0625 --> 00:32:55,345.0625 Yeah. 228 00:32:55,645.0625 --> 00:33:05,415.0625 And, and there again, I think there's a special role for the deacon in keeping our focus there, you know, and opening the door as well. 229 00:33:05,425.0625 --> 00:33:13,735.0625 There's a, there's a way just watching you work in which you come alongside people and there's a, you can establish trust. 230 00:33:14,280.0625 --> 00:33:47,300.0625 very quickly and you have a knowledge of the system, how it works, where the resources are, you're, you're aware, you're thinking, I mean you write grants because you know the funding is needed, so you have that skill set, you have the one on one personal intervention skill set, you have the courage to approach someone on the street and not just kind of give them a couple of bucks, but to actually see them engage with them and also help them connect with resources that they may not be aware of. 231 00:33:47,480.0625 --> 00:33:54,600.0615 So there's, there's this whole package that is about engaging the world at this point of need. 232 00:33:55,110.0625 --> 00:34:06,380.0625 And like you say, not just people on the street, but I've seen you do that in congregational life too, where people can quickly kind of connect with you and you can bring them into awareness of. 233 00:34:06,945.0625 --> 00:34:08,585.0625 what's available and what's possible. 234 00:34:09,375.0625 --> 00:34:12,795.0625 And, and so there is, this is a, in some ways a diaconal moment. 235 00:34:12,805.0625 --> 00:34:30,555.0625 I think the world needs the church and the Episcopal church in particular to engage the brokenness and hurt that the, the, the conflict, the fractions, the, the, the brokenness of our Politics, where people are mad at each other and we don't know how to talk to each other. 236 00:34:30,965.0625 --> 00:34:33,695.0625 The, the pain of the people who are hurting. 237 00:34:34,255.0625 --> 00:34:36,525.0625 The lots of addiction that's going on. 238 00:34:36,595.0615 --> 00:34:40,185.0615 There's a, there's a need for, for us to intervene. 239 00:34:40,525.0625 --> 00:34:41,415.0625 To get involved. 240 00:34:41,535.0615 --> 00:34:41,845.0615 Yes. 241 00:34:42,175.0625 --> 00:34:51,365.0615 And I think our institutional leadership recently has been incredibly courageous, you know, nationally. 242 00:34:51,825.0615 --> 00:35:15,855.062 And I think the Episcopal Church is is really at a time where we could absolutely just Totally blossom and have people say, you know what, we do need this, you know, and I think you express what it, you know, express what it means to be a DK probably better than I did it at this interview. 243 00:35:15,855.062 --> 00:35:16,815.0625 I don't think so. 244 00:35:17,895.0625 --> 00:35:24,215.0615 Thank you for putting it all together, but I'm so proud and inspired to be. 245 00:35:24,765.0625 --> 00:35:38,475.0625 Part of the Episcopal Church, and to be, um, you know, ordained, to be blessed enough to be ordained in this, into this institution, and be part of it, you know, locally, nationally, and globally. 246 00:35:38,515.0625 --> 00:35:52,435.0625 I think it's a very exciting time, and I know there are struggles, but I, you know, my belief is that, um, there's also going to be an incredible amount of good coming out of this, you know. 247 00:35:52,445.0625 --> 00:35:55,530.0625 We will begin to, Make a greater mark. 248 00:35:55,560.0625 --> 00:35:55,870.0625 Yeah. 249 00:35:56,90.0625 --> 00:35:56,400.0625 Yeah. 250 00:35:56,450.0625 --> 00:35:56,740.0625 Yeah. 251 00:35:56,800.0625 --> 00:35:57,990.0625 Cuz our faith is deep. 252 00:35:58,10.0625 --> 00:35:58,390.0625 Yeah. 253 00:35:58,520.0625 --> 00:36:06,820.0625 And we do know the hope that is in Christ and for us to be able to bring that hope into the world that deeply needs it. 254 00:36:06,950.0625 --> 00:36:07,180.0625 Yeah. 255 00:36:07,650.0625 --> 00:36:09,360.0625 Is a blessing and an opportunity. 256 00:36:09,570.0625 --> 00:36:09,830.0625 Yeah. 257 00:36:09,970.0615 --> 00:36:11,540.0615 So, thank you for your leadership in that. 258 00:36:11,590.0615 --> 00:36:12,954.9625 Thanks for who you are. 259 00:36:13,405.0625 --> 00:36:15,965.0625 And for what you do, it's a blessing to work alongside you. 260 00:36:16,595.0625 --> 00:36:17,65.0625 Thank you. 261 00:36:17,355.0625 --> 00:36:21,225.0625 And that's absolutely a reciprocal, you know, love. 262 00:36:21,225.0625 --> 00:36:26,715.0625 And thank you for being our Bishop and guiding us, you know, appreciate that.
I think one of the aspects that might be not necessary, but certainly part of a person's personality for being a deacon is. 2 00:00:14,549.999 --> 00:00:19,475 And that's a great example of kind of helping people understand the role of the deacon.
My job as a deacon and our jobs as deacons.
(00:28):
Welcome to the Simply Christian Life, this is Bishop Michael Hunn, the Bishop of the Diocese of the Rio Grande, which encompasses all of New Mexico and the far west part of Texas.
.999Today, what is a deacon? Hello there, Diocese of the Rio Grande, I'm sure you remember Deacon Athena Gassoumis.
(00:50):
Yes.
It's a joy to be with you again.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Bishop.
Wonderful to be with you and the diocese.
There are two special reasons why I was really eager to talk to you and why I wanted to make sure we're talking to the diocese.
One is, you have really discerned that the diaconate in a permanent way is where you're called to be.
(01:12):
And I want to talk a little bit about the, about that decision, but also in a bigger way.
There's a lot of confusion, I think, I hear in people.
What's the, what is a deacon, what's the difference between a deacon and a priest, a lay person and a deacon? And I'd really like for you to share with us your whole life and the way in which your ministry unfolds.
(01:34):
Because it's a wonderful example of a deacon and what she does and how that work unfolds and And so we'll just get started and then let the wow.
.999Well, I think the first thing, one of the first things I was thinking is I always carry a pen and I always carry a little Athena to do.
(01:55):
I like it.
And that's because I'm in community and so gathering phone numbers, getting a phone call.
Who am I meeting? I can't always remember.
.9And so, yeah.
All my shirts, including this, of course, my clergy shirt, have this ability.
(02:16):
What I have learned my whole life, and this is something my mother had shared with me, and I may have shared this before.
She said when I was a little girl that In our big doors in Greece in our house, I would open them up at the crack of dawn and go and meet with the fishermen and just be out in community and then I go to the bakery and then I, so I would be up at the crack of dawn, which I still am being out in the community, just Being with people.
(02:54):
And so she often reminds me to this day, Athena, you are doing today what you did from the earliest time that she could remember and You know, that makes me think I've often talked with the Commission on Ministry about the nature of Ordination and ministry Sometimes people who are doing discernment like on the commission on ministry or the standing committee or I've even seen bishops do this where they think it's the job of the church to decide.
(03:27):
Are you this? Are you that? I tend to look at it more like your mother in the sense that I think we are being called by the Holy Spirit to be who we were made to be.
And if one is called to the priesthood or to the deaconate We can see sort of signs of priestly things that we've done our whole life, signs of the diaconal things that we've done our whole life.
(03:52):
.999When we're called to lay ministry, we are called to lean deeper into our joys and passions and the things that we do.
And so it's just, I love now having this image of you as a little, how old were you when you would like, Probably like four, four and five, you know, five I was sent to school, but so probably younger than that.
(04:14):
And it was a safe enough place where you were growing up in Greece that it was a little island, so everybody, So everybody knew who you were and all that.
But you would be out there doing what you're doing right now, basically, knitting community together. 32 00:04:28,75.1 --> 00:04:29,324.9 Yeah.
And so.
.999while I was having my, frappe mocha just now, I was thinking about this question and, and trying to sort of put it all together and what some of the conversation we had on the way to the detention center was that I think because I grew up in a very specific location in the world, um, with a very specific spirituality and religion, but also understanding that I knew where I was in the world from a very young age, and so having a sort of global perspective on a location, and having, being surrounded by the Orthodox Church, being surrounded by being raised by a village, you know, and then experiencing the world, what I realize is that I think one of the aspects that might be be not necessary, but certainly part of a person's personality for being a deacon, is to be outgoing and not afraid of the world.
(05:43):
.999So to be in the world, because that's our call, is to be in the world, to be Jesus's, well to carry the gospel, and to carry the love, and to be the vehicle and of Jesus's love, compassion, and justice, and then bringing all of that, which encompasses the smells, and the tastes, and the feelings of what we experience in the world, and being the link back, and discerning, okay, what do we do with this? Having um, A global perspective, but really more than anything, not being afraid to touch people because people are sentient beings, we smell, we taste, we do all of that, and to not be afraid to be the Beatitudes really in the world and very specifically having, walking evangelically Um, in a way where people can sense that you do love them and they may smell wonderful or they may not smell so wonderful, but like you experienced today in the detention center.
(07:15):
We're all children of God.
.999Some may be, um, more hurt than others, more wounded than others, but for a deacon, um, being a baptized member of the Episcopal Church means that it's my interaction in the world and how I communicate that back to our community of faith and how do we discern what the needs are.
(07:46):
Um, But really and truly to not, to not be afraid of a person because when you sit down, if you had sat down with any one of the people that you met today or saw today, you would love them.
.999You would because you would see them as a brother or a sister. 40 00:08:07,954.999 --> 00:08:29,99.999 It's only when they become a label, they become a particular population of otherness that um, Transcribed Then the, then the separation happens, you know, but one on one, you know, I think that my job as a deacon and our jobs as deacons is.
(08:29):
.9Really, the Beatitudes, I think, are so meaningful, and understanding how Jesus presented them to the masses is not necessarily how we always read them, or how we're taught, um, but I, I believe walking, walking that walk, and just helping people say, how do we make a difference.
(08:55):
this community better.
Um, well, it seems to me that two, two of the liturgical pieces, which a deacon does right in line with that, which is, as you were talking about the movement of going out into the world, and this is something you've Talk to me a lot about, about, I don't want to not be always out among the people.
(09:16):
.74576923And there's something about the way the deacon takes the gospel into the middle of the assembly, right? Which is, which is the assembly of course, yes, has the baptized there, but it also has people who may not be baptized or who brand new or who visitors there's the whole, like the, the deacon is carried, literally carrying the gospel right into the middle of the people. 45 00:09:34,135.74576923 --> 00:09:36,904.9 And then of course, at the end of the liturgy.
(09:37):
Follow me.
Let's go.
Now it's time to go out into the world.
And so it's the deacon that really has that tug out into the world.
Um, and, and so tell us more about your, your day job and the work that you do here in Socorro and around this county.
(09:58):
So, I run a compliance office.
Which is basically not adult probation.
Adult probation tends to be people that have felonies.
I, we work with people that have non felonies, but can, it can turn into a felony depending on the court.
So I have, in our office, we touch on a regular basis, 350 people, including the 80 to a hundred in the detention center.
(10:29):
.999And so what we do is literally help people navigate their, um, their legal issues.
But in the time that they're navigating that, we also touch them in a way to say, what got you here, what might help you recognize you don't have to come back, what might you need to ensure you don't come back.
(10:58):
Um, so it's really wraparound services that include basically just one on one encounter with people to say, What do you need? Do you even know what you need? Most of the time they can't particularly articulate what they need.
So, um, so there's that and then there's the detention center component where we do the same thing in detention.
(11:26):
.999What do you need to ensure you don't come back? What services for your family, medical, psychiatric, behavioral health, mental health, physical health, what do you need to ensure you can reach your fullest potential? In the detention center, out of the detention center, um, making sure people understand even if they go to prison, prison can offer lots of opportunities.
(11:54):
.999So if they recognize their consequences are based on yesterday, that today is a new day. 62 00:12:02,669.999 --> 00:12:06,529.999 So you're just cleaning up yesterday, you don't have to bring yesterday into today. 63 00:12:07,289.999 --> 00:12:12,830 Um, so that's pretty 20 years here.
And, um.
(12:15):
And it's amazing today, I mean we had a chance to, thank you for taking me to the detention center.
And we got to meet some of the folks and say hello, um, to them. 67 00:12:25,589.999 --> 00:13:02,525 And we were talking about The nature of this county, and the amount of the county budget that is spent working on folks who are, working with folks who are recovering from addiction, who have experienced some sort of a criminal, um, behavior, as well, often, you know, Recovering from trauma themselves, coming out of family systems that may have addiction in them, and the cycles of that, which your work is trying to kind of, let's interrupt that cycle, and see if we can bring about wholeness to the individual. 68 00:13:02,914.999 --> 00:13:10,105 And it was just wonderful being with you and, uh, And the guard, is that what we would call him? Yeah.
(13:10):
Who was there, who took us through the detention officer.
Yeah.
.999Who, who was wonderful and, um, and got to meet some of the people there at least briefly, but I got a real window into the nature of the way you work with folks.
So, so talk a little bit about kind of what the, what that is like at the County level here.
We're in, we're in Socorro and so this is Socorro County.
(13:32):
And, um, tell us a little bit about the.
How you work with people in terms of kind of paying back to society and the interruption of that cycle.
Okay.
Um, well I have multiple hats.
I have an administrative hat, I have a clinical hat, and then I hat just, most people just know me as Athena now.
(13:57):
Yeah.
For so many years.
And so there's, it takes a long time for people to develop trust.
So there's consistency that's required.
There's continuity that's required.
There's the ability to be able to follow through with an individual and for them to see that if I say something, I can kind of make it happen as a partnership.
(14:27):
You know, they have to sort of meet me 50 50, you know, it's a sort of halfway.
So.
Interrupting criminal and addictive behavior, first of all, is a long journey, takes a long time. 88 00:14:42,474.999 --> 00:14:50,555 Um, building trust with individuals, um, is probably the most important thing.
(14:51):
And so as, I think just as a personality, if you go open handedly and open, with an open heart, Folks in detention and have been in the, I'll call it that life, this lifestyle, really know how to sense people because it's survival.
(15:13):
So they can pick up on somebody's, whether they're genuine or not, or whether they're safe or not.
So that acts in a way to our advantage because if you come and meet with an individual with an open hand and an open heart, The trust usually happens right away because they know they don't have to watch their back with me.
(15:37):
So the work can begin usually oftentimes right away and then they see me again or they see the staff again or they see that people like yourself come in and we say that we love you and we're going to follow through on this and then This is their list.
So we have our list.
(15:58):
They have their list.
I heard them talking today about, yep, we were in class today.
We got some homework.
We'll see you Tuesday.
There's very much a sense of like there's there's progress and you're kind of walking alongside accompanying them on this journey where they're recovering.
Their sense of worth and identity and humanness in some ways.
(16:18):
And they know that it's a walk together.
Yeah.
So, you know.
You're not against them in this or holding the bar they have to jump over.
There's a real sense of like. 105 00:16:28,519.999 --> 00:16:29,630 It's everything that they do.
Their behavior pretty much dictates everything. 107 00:16:32,160.1 --> 00:16:34,390 Especially in a detention center.
But it's, it's work that I love.
It's work that I've done.
(16:38):
.999And that work translates into everything in the community.
You know, whether it's people at Walmart or, you know, I think, um, part of the financial and emotional and spiritual gain of a church and community is for the community to know what you do. 112 00:17:01,354.999 --> 00:17:10,515 So we talked about this as well, that if the community truly knows that you're praying for them, they're going to support you.
(17:11):
They'll support you financially.
They'll support you by coming and assisting in a project.
Um, and this is what we cultivate through the RISE program that we talked about, Reach, Intervene, Support, and Engage. 116 00:17:23,964.999 --> 00:17:37,010 That, um, if people know that you're engaged in their life, whether it's unseen, but they know it's happening, they're going to support you.
(17:37):
At St.
Paul's this works incredibly because the community financially supports the church, um, in a way that I've never quite experienced because they know what we do, what we do for the community.
Talk a little bit about that relationship and how that all works because it's a, it's a great example of the impact an Episcopal church can have.
(18:03):
beyond the members who are a part of it? The members that we have, the congregational membership that we have, is already sort of very active in the community.
So they, in their own, in their own way, um, express the love of who we are in the community.
(18:25):
And then my role as a deacon is Just to, to nurture that, to just nurture what's already being done, but also oftentimes to be in my collar and walk around so they kind of go, you know, like, who's that, you know, well, and that's a great example of kind of helping people understand the role of the deacon. 123 00:18:47,774.999 --> 00:18:49,474.9 I often think people think of. 124 00:18:49,475.1 --> 00:18:56,615 Um, lay person, deacon, priest, bishop as a hierarchy that has to do with power and all that kind of stuff.
(18:56):
And I'm really trying to help people understand that the, uh, I think a better way to think about that is location within the body of Christ and clarity of role.
So it is literally the case that the lay people at St.
Paul's truth or consequences are out in and among.
The community, they are worshiping on Sunday.
(19:17):
Yes, but they are also then Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, interacting with neighbors, but they're also seeing The people on the street responding to them with love.
They're concerned about the people who may be incarcerated.
And so they may not know exactly what to do about that or how that might work, but their hearts are warmed by that.
They see their community, which may have friction and tension with respect to local politics or what, whatever the issues are in the community.
(19:45):
You know, the, if there is, if there were to be a problem at the school or anything that's happening in that area, the Episcopal, the Episcopalians are out there in the world.
Right.
Being light, being salt, lifting up, um, bringing their hearts and their resources to help sort of lift up the community. 136 00:20:07,999.999 --> 00:20:10,250 And then you as a deacon.
(20:11):
Help them do that, right? Which sometimes can be, Hey, this is how we can work with those who are incarcerated. 138 00:20:17,570.1 --> 00:20:23,829.999 And you have some gifts and skills and background and relationships that you can rely on for that. 139 00:20:23,889.999 --> 00:20:34,040 Or let me help you get organized to do that project or bringing information about, Hey, there's a thing over here that maybe we haven't noticed, but let's see if we can.
(20:34):
make a difference.
So there's a, almost a community organizing function of a deacon where the community relies on you to help us all do the work God is calling us to do. 142 00:20:46,109.999 --> 00:20:57,940 Is that? No, I think you're absolutely right that it is a leadership role in the ministry of justice and compassion, both in the church, but more so on the outside.
(20:57):
So like you said, to have the role to help.
People, if I'm bringing an issue back to be discerned, nothing's going to happen unless I have people around me that say, okay, let's discern this together and see how we can fix it.
.999So, um, or not fix it, but at least, you know, participate in, in solving an issue or at least helping out in an issue. 146 00:21:23,149.999 --> 00:21:30,490 And maybe if you hadn't brought that issue in, either the community may not have noticed it, or they may have noticed it, but just been kind of too timid.
(21:31):
To kind of take it on, but, but part of the deacon's role is to say, Hey.
We can do this.
Let's talk about it.
Let's discern what we might do and to kind of be the catalyst that helps motivate the body of Christ.
Again, as you say, outside the walls of the church. 152 00:21:47,44.999 --> 00:21:53,085 And I remember vividly when we were, we were having this conversation, because for a long time, at least as long as I've been a bishop.
(21:53):
You and I have been back and forth and back and forth about priesthood, the acronym, what is this about? And all this kind of thing.
And I remember, I don't know if this was the case for you, but I have this vivid memory of a single conversation that we had in a series of conversations in which we were talking about, okay, if you're, if you're going to be ordained a priest, the expectation of the church is you're going to be focused on a church community Part time, quarter time, half time, what have you and your primary role and identity will be to be working in that church to help provide the Eucharist and plan liturgies and all that kind of stuff and I kind of watched your face go like I don't want to do that I don't want to give up being out in the world with the people that I'm and and it just sort of I think it Dawned on me.
(22:37):
Maybe it was already clear to you, but it it sort of dawned on me in that conversation that That what you were doing that your call consistently is to be outside the walls nurturing that and you come inside the church to help the church go out exactly and and it it is I Mean you can say how it felt to you to me.
(22:57):
It has felt like once we figured out clarity about that That there's sort of a lightness that came into you.
I grew into, then, my spirituality kind of came out of a box.
It was like, in a positive way, opening Pandora's box. 159 00:23:18,214.999 --> 00:23:48,270 And allowing the spirit to be fully, how do I now grow in to being ordained? Because that's a huge responsibility, spiritually, and the accountability I have from my relationship and intimacy with God and how I pray and how, what I ask, not what I ask for, but my relationship with Jesus now has to be, you know.
(23:48):
of servanthood, but not in a way, because the word servant just has really negative connotations, but ultimately my prayer every day is, how do I do thy will today? Show me the best way to do what you ask me to do through the beatitudes that you have shared.
(24:09):
Um, how can I be a leader, excuse me, a leader and a role model in that? Blessed are the poor, blessed are the meek.
You are called to see that and to, you're drawn into that in a very special and powerful way.
But, you know, somebody that's affluent and educated emotionally can have all of those things within them.
(24:32):
So, you know, we tend to think that it's, it's only as like a certain demographic.
But, you know, we know that it carries through our whole, what it means to be in the human condition, right? Right.
It's not just about income level or tax bracket or anything like that.
.999There's, there's struggle and conflict and pain and trauma and addiction and, and dysfunction in, in all of us human beings. 168 00:24:59,349.999 --> 00:24:59,679.999 Yeah.
(25:00):
But I think when you spoke about, you know, bringing the gospel into the congregation and into the world.
Grasping once the decision was discerned, once we discerned the decision, all of a sudden realizing the, the importance and the beauty and the love that comes from having, uh, I guess you could say, be given the, the sacrament of the gospel in community and in the congregation is, um, was actually quite incredible, you know? Yeah.
(25:42):
No, it is because it's, it's, it's not a role.
.999It's who you are, but then when you're doing this, it's really, you know, if, if you're reading these words, they're not words.
.999It's like, how do we embody what's being said? Yeah.
You know, what we're reading.
How do we embody that? How do we truly the hands and feet? That Jesus wants us to be in community and, um, and have it then be liturgically what happens, you know, the whole liturgy that we have is so beautiful, and the choreography, the spiritual choreography that happens with that, you know, that this is like, okay.
(26:23):
We're hearing this and then, then we're going to receive it.
Mm-hmm You know, so it's beautiful.
It brings to, you know me, I'm a weeper.
Yeah.
Oh, I think it's beautiful.
That's beautiful.
Well, and it, and it does, I mean, I think there's a fullness present when you, when, when in our liturgy we have the laity gathered.
Right.
And remember laity is, is, for those of you who don't remember laity, it means the people of God.
(26:47):
So we're all a part of the Laos.
Right.
That's why I like the idea that, um, it's about where are you located within the assembly? We are all a part of the assembly.
.999We're all a part of the body of Christ.
And when you have the laity present and you have a deacon and a priest, you've, you've got the fullness of the expression of the various roles of leadership, their lay leadership.
(27:13):
.999Deaconal leadership and priestly leadership, which, um, if you, if you have a priest, the, the priest is also a deacon, but if that priest is really focused on my job is to look after the community and the inside the churchy bits, then sometimes we don't have that emphasis on what you bring in its fullness by focusing all, all the time on being out in the world and drawing us out in the world, you know, I mean, it was such a blessing to me.
(27:44):
You open the doors to me as a bishop to the detention center in a way that I've been to detention centers before, but quite frankly, I couldn't have opened that door and wouldn't have known exactly how, and I would have felt a little sheepish about it, even though I know, and I pray for those in prison as Jesus called us to do, right? We're all supposed to visit those who are in prison. 192 00:28:03,935.1 --> 00:28:12,925 But you, with your diaconal authority, open that door, literally, for me, to walk into and experience a place of ministry.
(28:13):
That would have been inaccessible to me had you not led me there literally, you know what I mean? And so I think I think there's an important part and part of the reason i'm I would love to raise up more deacons in the church And part of the reason why I as the bishop i'd like to help people understand If you are a person who feels constantly drawn into the world and you come to church to be fed, yes, but you feel constantly drawn to like, I want to figure out how I can learn the skill set to organize folks and engage in issues in the place. 194 00:28:46,624.999 --> 00:28:54,390 How can I help a community discern that draw? then maybe the diaconate is, is the place where you're called to be formed.
(28:54):
Um, cause we need that leadership.
.9And I think, you know, we have fewer than 10 full time active deacons in the diocese right now for 50 congregations.
I would love, I mean, every priest is a deacon. 198 00:29:05,919.999 --> 00:29:35,244.999 Yes, we have that, but it's also true that the priest is focused primarily on Kind of the teaching ministry and the liturgical sacramental planning and organizing, sometimes the leadership pieces of sort of running the church as a business operation, sort of, and the deacon has this Freedom to keep our focus outside the door and, and working with people in the community, which it's, we need the leadership that you're doing.
(29:35):
And it's so fun to be working alongside you because you keep opening up ways for me to come and encounter folks that I couldn't do otherwise. 200 00:29:44,554.999 --> 00:29:45,794.999 Well, that's wonderful. 201 00:29:45,844.999 --> 00:29:47,44.999 I'm really happy about that.
And I think, I think we could also maybe call Deacons the go to. 203 00:29:53,945.0625 --> 00:30:02,585.0625 Because I know that sometimes if there issues in a congregation or people just don't know, like there's this person or that person. 204 00:30:04,125.0625 --> 00:30:15,285.0625 Maybe the, the priest knows or doesn't or it's not, but the deacon, I think part of the role is the go to because I'm the go to in community and I'm also the go to in the congregation. 205 00:30:15,755.0625 --> 00:30:16,395.0625 True, true. 206 00:30:16,705.0625 --> 00:30:29,545.0625 And that's what the, that's what this is about, right? There's a public way in which people can come to you as an ordained minister, one who is set aside in a different location in the thing, with a leadership role in that area. 207 00:30:29,555.0625 --> 00:30:38,225.0625 So they can come to you and say, what's going on about this? Or, yeah, what do we do about that? Or can I talk to father or mother so and so, but I don't really know how to approach them. 208 00:30:38,225.1625 --> 00:30:39,634.9625 Yeah. 209 00:30:39,635.0625 --> 00:30:41,865.0625 We can be the, be the buffer end. 210 00:30:43,105.0625 --> 00:30:50,595.0625 And this sort of intervention person, too, you know, so, um, you know, intervention is a great word for a deacon. 211 00:30:50,895.0625 --> 00:31:02,95.0625 It seems to me that that part of what that courage you're talking about, being willing to go out into the world, maybe, maybe part of the charism is an intervention, kind of a spirit. 212 00:31:02,550.0625 --> 00:31:02,750.0625 Yeah. 213 00:31:02,800.0625 --> 00:31:10,550.0625 That, uh, a lot of us see what's going on as we drive through and there are people that we're aware of who are on the street or they're hungry or that kind of a thing. 214 00:31:11,60.0625 --> 00:31:26,120.0625 But I think part of the diaconal charism is to, to actually intervene, to figure out how to do that and to help us intervene as a church and, and then to also help, like you say, intervene between the, I don't know how to talk to the priest about this or who should I, whatever. 215 00:31:26,160.0625 --> 00:31:26,500.0625 Yeah. 216 00:31:26,500.1625 --> 00:31:26,685.0625 Yeah. 217 00:31:26,685.0625 --> 00:31:26,869.9625 Yeah. 218 00:31:26,870.0625 --> 00:31:27,260.0625 Yeah. 219 00:31:28,350.0625 --> 00:31:52,80.0625 Well, I'm, I'm hoping that those of you that are watching this and maybe have, are discerning a call will really and truly think about, um, do you have the courage, you know, and are you spiritually called for this because it is exciting and wonderful and beautiful and people are beautiful. 220 00:31:52,110.0625 --> 00:31:52,980.0625 They really are. 221 00:31:52,990.0625 --> 00:31:58,40.0615 I mean, do they get on my nerves sometimes, of course, but ultimately. 222 00:31:58,610.0625 --> 00:32:07,580.0625 You know, we're here on this very fragile planet together, you know, whether animal, plant, or human, or two legged. 223 00:32:08,190.0625 --> 00:32:15,360.0615 It's really important that we learn how to support and care for one another and nurture one another. 224 00:32:15,950.0615 --> 00:32:35,500.0625 Um, and I think, um, this is, this is a really pivotal important, I can't, I don't know, there's got to be a better word than important, but it's a, it's, it's really kind of a make or break time, I think, of transition. 225 00:32:35,730.0615 --> 00:32:53,890.0625 It's an incredible transition at the moment, and I think it's going to take all of us, whatever our roles are, um, child, sister, mother, daughter, son, whatever it is, to really say, okay, we have to make sure that, that we nurture. 226 00:32:54,395.0625 --> 00:32:54,775.0625 Yeah. 227 00:32:54,895.0625 --> 00:32:55,345.0625 Yeah. 228 00:32:55,645.0625 --> 00:33:05,415.0625 And, and there again, I think there's a special role for the deacon in keeping our focus there, you know, and opening the door as well. 229 00:33:05,425.0625 --> 00:33:13,735.0625 There's a, there's a way just watching you work in which you come alongside people and there's a, you can establish trust. 230 00:33:14,280.0625 --> 00:33:47,300.0625 very quickly and you have a knowledge of the system, how it works, where the resources are, you're, you're aware, you're thinking, I mean you write grants because you know the funding is needed, so you have that skill set, you have the one on one personal intervention skill set, you have the courage to approach someone on the street and not just kind of give them a couple of bucks, but to actually see them engage with them and also help them connect with resources that they may not be aware of. 231 00:33:47,480.0625 --> 00:33:54,600.0615 So there's, there's this whole package that is about engaging the world at this point of need. 232 00:33:55,110.0625 --> 00:34:06,380.0625 And like you say, not just people on the street, but I've seen you do that in congregational life too, where people can quickly kind of connect with you and you can bring them into awareness of. 233 00:34:06,945.0625 --> 00:34:08,585.0625 what's available and what's possible. 234 00:34:09,375.0625 --> 00:34:12,795.0625 And, and so there is, this is a, in some ways a diaconal moment. 235 00:34:12,805.0625 --> 00:34:30,555.0625 I think the world needs the church and the Episcopal church in particular to engage the brokenness and hurt that the, the, the conflict, the fractions, the, the, the brokenness of our Politics, where people are mad at each other and we don't know how to talk to each other. 236 00:34:30,965.0625 --> 00:34:33,695.0625 The, the pain of the people who are hurting. 237 00:34:34,255.0625 --> 00:34:36,525.0625 The lots of addiction that's going on. 238 00:34:36,595.0615 --> 00:34:40,185.0615 There's a, there's a need for, for us to intervene. 239 00:34:40,525.0625 --> 00:34:41,415.0625 To get involved. 240 00:34:41,535.0615 --> 00:34:41,845.0615 Yes. 241 00:34:42,175.0625 --> 00:34:51,365.0615 And I think our institutional leadership recently has been incredibly courageous, you know, nationally. 242 00:34:51,825.0615 --> 00:35:15,855.062 And I think the Episcopal Church is is really at a time where we could absolutely just Totally blossom and have people say, you know what, we do need this, you know, and I think you express what it, you know, express what it means to be a DK probably better than I did it at this interview. 243 00:35:15,855.062 --> 00:35:16,815.0625 I don't think so. 244 00:35:17,895.0625 --> 00:35:24,215.0615 Thank you for putting it all together, but I'm so proud and inspired to be. 245 00:35:24,765.0625 --> 00:35:38,475.0625 Part of the Episcopal Church, and to be, um, you know, ordained, to be blessed enough to be ordained in this, into this institution, and be part of it, you know, locally, nationally, and globally. 246 00:35:38,515.0625 --> 00:35:52,435.0625 I think it's a very exciting time, and I know there are struggles, but I, you know, my belief is that, um, there's also going to be an incredible amount of good coming out of this, you know. 247 00:35:52,445.0625 --> 00:35:55,530.0625 We will begin to, Make a greater mark. 248 00:35:55,560.0625 --> 00:35:55,870.0625 Yeah. 249 00:35:56,90.0625 --> 00:35:56,400.0625 Yeah. 250 00:35:56,450.0625 --> 00:35:56,740.0625 Yeah. 251 00:35:56,800.0625 --> 00:35:57,990.0625 Cuz our faith is deep. 252 00:35:58,10.0625 --> 00:35:58,390.0625 Yeah. 253 00:35:58,520.0625 --> 00:36:06,820.0625 And we do know the hope that is in Christ and for us to be able to bring that hope into the world that deeply needs it. 254 00:36:06,950.0625 --> 00:36:07,180.0625 Yeah. 255 00:36:07,650.0625 --> 00:36:09,360.0625 Is a blessing and an opportunity. 256 00:36:09,570.0625 --> 00:36:09,830.0625 Yeah. 257 00:36:09,970.0615 --> 00:36:11,540.0615 So, thank you for your leadership in that. 258 00:36:11,590.0615 --> 00:36:12,954.9625 Thanks for who you are. 259 00:36:13,405.0625 --> 00:36:15,965.0625 And for what you do, it's a blessing to work alongside you. 260 00:36:16,595.0625 --> 00:36:17,65.0625 Thank you. 261 00:36:17,355.0625 --> 00:36:21,225.0625 And that's absolutely a reciprocal, you know, love. 262 00:36:21,225.0625 --> 00:36:26,715.0625 And thank you for being our Bishop and guiding us, you know, appreciate that.
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