In this episode, we delve into how elderhood offers a unique spiritual opportunity to reflect on one's spiritual bucket list and identity beyond profession and family roles. Our discussion also covers the spiritual practice of preparing for the end of life, including planned giving and legacy planning within the church. We explore the importance of advanced directives, funeral planning, and the creation of a comprehensive guide to aid individuals and families in navigating these pivotal decisions. Additionally, the video touches on a new program at St. Mary's during Lent titled 'Leave A Legacy,' which educates congregants on medical and spiritual concerns, legal and financial considerations, probate processes, and estate planning. Viewers are encouraged to think deeply about their spiritual and financial legacies and the importance of their contributions to the future of the church community.
00:00 Introduction to Elderhood and Spiritual Bucket Lists
00:48 Spiritual Practice and End-of-Life Preparation
01:24 Legacy Planning and Financial Gifts
04:06 Funeral Planning and Personal Preferences
10:45 Lenten Program: Leave A Legacy
17:34 Diocesan Support and Future Planning
21:36 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
A little bit ago, Jan and I were having a conversation about Elderhood and how the spiritual journey at the, at the, in the later years pre presents a super opportunity for you to work on your spiritual bucket list.
For you to think about who am I called to be, not just being known, my identity is tied up in what I do.
(00:32):
Mm-hmm.
Whether that's profession or raising kids or what, what have you.
There's another.
Program that you have had a lot of experience with, which is helping people with the spiritual practice.
Ooh, there's a dove.
Hi here.
Hi.
Holy Spirit.
Little do.
Holy Spirit.
Thanks for coming to visit.
And that's very apropos because part of what you're working on is, um, the spiritual journey of helping people think about the end of their earthly life.
(00:57):
The preparation for crossing over into the eternal life promised to us in Jesus Christ, our Lord.
A lot of us don't want to think about that.
A lot of us are la la, la, la.
I'm not gonna die.
And then, you know, or take me when I don't know about it, think about it.
But you have a way of thinking about this as a spiritual practice, and you've got some materials.
I'd love for you to kind of tell us how you think about helping people with the spiritual practice of thinking about the end of life.
(01:24):
Well, in my, in my former life, um, I was a planned giving officer for Presbyterian Healthcare Foundation and the University of New Mexico School of Law.
And in those roles I had the great.
Opportunity to talk with people about leaving a planned gift to an institution.
And we know that when people leave a planned gift to one place, they usually leave it to three to five.
(01:51):
Hmm.
So I didn't see any difference in the church of, and had no compunction of saying.
Michael, we need to talk about what legacy you want to leave to St.
Mary's, how you want to continue your ethos in the St.
Mary's congregation and just right there, that's a conversation a lot of clergy are afraid to have.
(02:17):
'cause they're worried about being money grubbing or they're worried about, it's not all about the money, but the reality is our financial commitments.
Are about the fruit of our labor, and people do want to have their life and their gift mean something.
Right.
So you're you're offering an opportunity in a way.
Yeah.
Well, and the other thing I think that we who sit on this side of that.
(02:41):
Tend to forget is that you have a need to give.
Mm-hmm.
We're created.
Right? Part of the part of being created in the image of God is what is God, but one who gives created this whole universe and the doves and the trees and the whole thing for us to enjoy.
God is fundamentally creative and that means God is fundamentally giving, right? So part of our being created in the image of God is that we are fundamentally givers.
(03:08):
Yeah.
And, and the individual person's need to give is going to happen.
Um, whether it's $5 or $500,000.
The, the money is not particularly, the amount is not particularly important, but giving you the opportunity to tell us.
(03:28):
What you want done with it.
Mm-hmm.
When you're no longer here, would you like it to continue your pledge for many years? Mm-hmm.
Would you like it to go into the building or go into an outreach fund? Mm-hmm.
Would you like it just to be left with a vestry to decide how they might need to spend it, whatever those needs might be that we can't see.
(03:51):
There'll be 20 years from now.
Right.
Right.
All of those questions are intended to help somebody think about it.
Mm-hmm.
Then we can back off the money thing and talk about something more concrete.
And that is their funeral plan.
Yeah.
Now I don't, I know you probably don't wanna think about this, but you know, I really need to know.
(04:13):
Mm-hmm.
I'd much rather have this conversation around this kitchen table or in this beautiful garden than to have it around your hospital table when you're not with it.
Yep.
Yep.
I wanna know.
Or even worse, you sudden pass away and we're putting together what we think you might have liked.
Instead of having the fondness of remembering, I remember when they chose that hymn and what it was about.
(04:36):
Right.
So we can have that conversation so that we really know how to celebrate your life.
'cause that's what we do.
Yeah.
At the end of life, we sing Hallelujah at the grave.
We celebrate that.
Life is changed, but not ended.
Not in it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you've got some, what's your ways you frame that conversation? Yeah.
Like what's your favorite song? Yeah.
Um, I have a little book that I put together that, um, well first of all, I have a, I have a check sheet.
(05:03):
I'm a check sheet kind of gal.
I like that 'cause I'm getting old and I don't remember everything.
So we basically put down basic demographic information, um, and then we just talk, start talking about the parts of the liturgy.
Mm-hmm.
And what's important to you? Do you have a favorite flower? Hmm.
Um, what's your favorite song? Yes.
(05:25):
Who do you want to read? Mm-hmm.
And once we kind of think about that, then we can talk about what do you want them to read? Yeah.
And how do you want them to participate that way? So in order to facilitate that, especially with our older people.
I put together a little notebook that has, um, all the suggested Old Testament readings, new Testament songs, gospels, and then I just pulled and copied a bunch of hymns that we've used for funerals.
(05:55):
Typically, um, not all of them from our hymnal, but ones like in the gardens in there and people go Eck.
But it is some that our people just clinging to my great grandmother.
Hmm.
Saying that to my grand or my mo, my grandmother saying that to my great-grandmother when she died.
Yeah.
So that when we have those kinds of memories, we want to honor that.
(06:16):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So we go through, the strife is over.
He has risen.
Um, just some of the ones that, that we've used in the past to stimulate thinking.
That's super helpful.
'cause not everybody reads music, first of all.
And also if you were to ask me, I know I have hymns that I love.
I can't pull 'em outta my brain like that, you know? Mm-hmm.
(06:37):
So, having them in the booklet where we can, 'cause I understand you take this booklet, you leave it with the person, you walk 'em through, here's the choices that you might consider, think about it and we'll talk again in a couple of weeks when you'd like to.
Right.
And it allows people at their own time.
'cause contemplating our mortality is always a bit of a challenge.
It's a spiritual practice, right? Mm-hmm.
Kind of look death in the face, and it raises how much do I believe in this resurrection thing? Do I really put my trust in Jesus like that? That's a hard thing, but it is a spiritual practice of acknowledging the preciousness of the life we've been given by thinking about what, what do we want that final remembrance of our life to be? And I think what I love about the way you do it is that.
(07:21):
It would also allow the family members to really know and appreciate why they're doing what they're doing, and, and that allows us to celebrate you even more.
I have a great story for you.
One person I sat down to do this with said just a minute.
They got up and they ran in and they pulled out a file of old funeral bulletins where they encircled stuff that they liked.
(07:43):
I love it.
And I said, that's exactly what we're talking about.
I love it.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll turn to my husband and say, that's one of my favorite hymns.
He said, Jan, every hymn is your favorite hymn.
Could you write down five of them, please? So I think, I think people have thought about it more.
Then we acknowledge.
Mm-hmm.
Because it comes to, it comes to, to all of us.
(08:07):
We'll have moments where we think about it and sometimes consciously push it away.
I don't wanna deal with that right now, but, but there's a spiritual practice of welcoming that contemplation.
And even in our, if you're praying the daily office, which I hope everybody is, a lot of those prayers in Kalin.
I mean, the fact that we have the NUNUs in there in Kalin every night, Lord.
(08:29):
Now let us, thou thy servant part in peace.
There's a great monastic tradition of, uh, remembering your death.
As a present reality, and that's a part of that prayer is that as the sun is setting, yes, we are contemplating, there will come a time when the sun is setting on my life and I'm not sure I'm gonna wake up in the morning anyway.
(08:51):
So there's a sense in which there's an opportunity spiritually for us to live each day as if it were our last, if you will.
Um, by, by having each day be precious.
When I was actually doing my own, I thought, okay, what is it that I wanna communicate? And I decided that I wanted the readings, the psalm, the hymns to be a sermon.
(09:16):
Mm-hmm.
This is what I want you to hear.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And I was very, very particular with what I chose to put in there.
Yeah.
So that, um.
Whomever did the sermon, had a lot of good fodder.
Mm-hmm.
Well, you bring up an important point because the, the, the funeral service is for the people who are here.
(09:38):
Mm-hmm.
Right? And, and so, uh, sometimes when I used to have these conversations with parishioners, um, sometimes I would encounter somebody who would say, oh, I don't care.
They can figure it out.
And they would say, you know, oh, I don't know.
They'll, they'll figure it out.
There is a sense in which.
Inviting that conversation ahead of time allows you to be in dialogue with the people to say to them, this faith mattered to me and I want you to hear about it.
(10:08):
You know, um, there, there's a sense in which, uh, thinking about the people that will be in that room can be a very tender thing as well.
It's empowering their theology mm-hmm.
To come out in the lessons that they choose, the hymns that they choose.
I.
Whatever they, they choose to do.
Yeah.
So it's, it's really kind of fun and I get all kinds of wonderful responses.
(10:30):
I don't know that I've ever had anybody say, oh, I don't wanna talk about that.
Mm-hmm.
Usually they're thinking about it as you said, they, they're, they're thinking about it on their own.
Yeah.
But having the church walk with you.
Through this journey.
That's what we're here for.
Exactly.
Every phase of life.
Exactly.
So leading into that, what we're doing at St.
Mary's for Lent is we're doing a program called Leave A Legacy, and we're taking it each Sunday in Lent, and we're talking about various things that happen in Elderhood and especially towards the end of life.
(11:01):
The.
Care plan, the do not resuscitate, do not intubate the advanced directive.
What's the difference between hospice, palliative care, and curative care? How does that all work together? Who should I do? What should I think about? So those kinds of things.
And then we have legal considerations of what you need to put together.
(11:24):
Mm-hmm.
Um.
We're, we're encouraging people to put it in a safe place, but to let somebody know where that safe place is and give them gee.
Right.
Right.
'cause it is such a gift for people.
I, I've, I've again walked with, as you have, I know many families who suddenly their loved one is at death's door and they don't know what to do.
(11:46):
They haven't had the conversation, and that can be anguish for the family members or your loved ones at that point.
Whereas if you can have the conversations, first of all, think about it yourself.
What, what? What do I want it to look like in a variety of scenarios? And who do I want to make those decisions when I'm not able to make decisions for myself? Mm-hmm.
And then to communicate with those folks and give them the key to the safe deposit box where the plan is, tell it's or, or have it, you know, easy to hand with copies, um, that they have, you know, so that when they show up at the hospital, here's the document that can be super helpful.
(12:22):
Like, for example, most people don't know that EMS emergency.
Medical people will look on your refrigerator and on, on your door for an advanced directive, and if it's there, then they are by law, must follow it.
They'll take it.
Yep.
Yes.
Yep.
Yeah, and and a lot of people wouldn't know that.
Right.
(12:42):
Just have an envelope on your fridge.
That'll help you remember as well as you go to mm-hmm.
Eat the food for today.
You'll remember.
Yeah.
That it's there.
So we're doing six sessions, one each Sunday in lt mm-hmm.
To help people look at how to deal with estates and the states.
Walk us through each of the sessions just to tell us what you're planning.
'cause 'cause we're gonna try to steal this for the diocese too.
(13:04):
Okay.
I think it's a great way you've organized it well.
Session one is medical and spiritual concerns.
Session two is legal considerations and estate planning.
What is a will, what is a trust? Mm-hmm.
I've already got my will.
How can I amend it? A simple codicil how to do that.
It can be very easy.
You don't have to make this complicated.
Yep.
And it's important to know we're, we're you're bringing in speakers who have expertise in the area.
(13:28):
This isn't free legal advice and we're not gonna do your will in that way.
But I think a lot of people don't even know what the terms are or how to begin or where to go.
So this is really helpful, kind of saying if you've taken care of each of these six items, thought about each of these six sets of issues, then you're good.
Absolutely.
The third one is financial considerations in estate planning.
(13:51):
And that's, um, how to deal with retirement accounts, liquid assets, any kind of, um, other kinds of assets that you might have, and what's the way to deal with that so that it can be easily transferable and won't cost your, uh, heirs.
Oh, that the taxes won't eat up.
Yeah.
Large percentages, right? And why you wanna do a will? Because if you die in test state, 80% of it's gonna go to the state.
(14:15):
Is that what you want? Right.
Right.
And most people would say, absolutely not.
Maybe not.
Well then let's take the, let's take the, and let's take the step to do that.
Um, then we're talking about pro probate.
What happens after somebody dies? And how do you probate if you haven't had a trust? Documents, so it just flows.
But if you have to probate a will or if or when do you, at what level do you, which is about $50,000, under 50,000, you don't have to probate.
(14:43):
Okay.
It's the total value of the estate, right.
And how to do that.
And then we have a practical session where I'm gonna hand out the funeral forms, right.
And everybody's gonna sit there and gonna fiddle around with them, and we're gonna answer questions and talk about.
All that kind of stuff is a work session.
That's marvelous.
Yeah.
That's marvelous.
This, these are, these are things that we should all, you know, kind of suck it up and embrace.
(15:05):
This is about our life.
It's about what a life has meant to me and what I wanna say to my loved ones about my life.
And it creates so many opportunities for intimacy, opportunities for us to have conversations that we don't wanna miss.
So we don't wanna miss, it's just wonderful ministry that you're doing.
Jam.
Thank you.
The, um.
(15:26):
It just comes back so, so much and so easy, and once people have made the decision to include the church in their will or the their estate plan, they have a higher stake in seeing where things are going.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Because they know that they're attached now.
(15:46):
Yeah.
In a different way and committed to this community.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
In a different kind of way.
Right? Yep.
Right.
Yeah.
So God bless them.
We have some wonderful people here.
Yeah.
Who've left some money from their wills and estates.
It's allowing us to keep this older facility going and getting it spiffy up from time to time.
Yep.
And we have literally, no matter what church you're in, we have all inherited.
(16:09):
The church that we have from those that have gone before and they treasured it and they loved it, and they put a new roof on it and they got a new boiler for it, and they fixed the parking lot and they provided for the clergy.
They provided for the administrator and they provided for the music.
We have an opportunity in our day to make sure that this church that we love continues into the next generation and the generation after that.
(16:32):
One of the things we know is that the younger folks, they tend to not attend church in as many numbers.
They're not able to pay as much in terms of pledging, and that has a lot to do with the way retirement planning is, is done in professions.
Now, people do not have defined benefit retirement.
Their 401k is their vehicle to save.
(16:53):
They know that every dollar I put into the church plate.
Literally is a dollar I might need in later life.
So there's the different kind of calculation than there was before.
Same thing with the cost of healthcare.
Used to be that if you had, uh, a stable job, you also had healthcare for your family and it was reasonably priced.
Now, even if you've got a great healthcare plan.
(17:16):
A hospital stay could blow your budget for a long period of time, so people are not able to give in the same way that they used to.
So those that have the opportunity to help set up the church for the next generation, I'm really grateful if they, if and when they do that well, I'm gonna take it a step forward based on where we're going in the diocese.
(17:38):
And that is not only for St.
Mary's as an institution, but for the diocesan.
Program to get it forward because the, the funds coming into the diocese are getting smaller and smaller and smaller.
We know, so endowing some things in the diocese I'll talk to people about, think of St.
Mary's, but.
You person have been very active in diocese and work.
(18:01):
Don't forget to include the diocese in some of that too.
Yeah.
It is true that our diocese does not have large endowments.
I mean, I think a lot of people have moved here from other places where their diocese may have an endowment of $50 million or $20 million or whatever.
Ours is three total for the whole diocese.
Uh, and is looking after 50 churches.
(18:22):
So, so there is a real need there in terms of the very existence of the Episcopal Church in New Mexico and far West Texas and what that will actually look like.
We need some help with that.
It's not set.
And so that's where I'd love for the Episcopalians in the diocese to really know and, and be aware that you, the church has not said it and forget it.
(18:43):
It'll always be here.
We are at an inflection point where it may not.
And so as people are thinking about what they love and the spiritual journey, my hope is that the Episcopal Church has given many gifts mm-hmm.
To people and that they would like for those gifts to cascade into the next generation so that this church is still there for their grandchildren.
Well, and I appreciate what you've always said is that from the diocesan level.
(19:09):
You have to look after the church in Tuum Care.
It is the only Episcopal church within a huge, almost two and a half hour radius.
Mm-hmm.
For anybody to go to church.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we need that Episcopal church in Tuum Care, New Mexico.
And that's just one example.
Yep.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
The, we have a wonderful senior warden there who's about in her early thirties.
(19:32):
She has a young infant daughter, and the church in Tuum Carey cannot afford their own priest.
So there are clergy that are driving sometimes four hours or more to get there.
Mm-hmm.
So that they can have a Eucharist.
They're a dedicated community there in Tuum.
And like you say.
You gotta go two and a half hours to get to the next place where if you're divorced, you can have your child baptized.
(19:54):
Or if you are looking for the message of the loving God that we preach in the Episcopal church, you gotta go two and a half hours to hear that.
And, and there are other congregations I was with one last week where, uh, it's a, it's a university town in New Mexico.
There is a Roman church.
There's a lot of non-denominational churches, but the Presbyterian church has closed.
(20:17):
The Methodist Church is having an issue right now and is really in decline.
The Episcopal Church is the only mainline denomination.
There's no Lutheran church.
There's no Presbyterian church.
No Methodist church.
The Methodist Church is, is struggling because of what's going on in Methodism right now, and the Episcopal church is the place so.
That is an important gift that we can be to continue the Episcopal Church and make sure it's here.
(20:40):
So as people are thinking about the spiritual journey and the importance of the church in nurturing their faith, I invite, we're gonna be inviting everybody in the diocese you bet to, to think through this as a spiritual practice and to think about how important it is that.
Others have made sure there was, there were bishops who rode out here on horseback and by train.
That's right.
(21:00):
Which then has led to the diocese that we have right now.
There will be church buildings that come and go as they have since the beginning of time.
Mm-hmm.
But the diocese is the unit where we all have a place at the table, and the diocese is the unit that makes sure Tuum Carey still has a church.
Deming still has a church.
Gallup still has a church.
Fort Stockton still has a church that.
(21:22):
Breadth is not just in the big churches in the urban areas, but it's also true that you have comans and priests at the big churches because of the legacy that others have given.
And we have an opportunity in our day to continue that legacy.
So Jan, thank you so much.
Thank you for all you're doing and for the clarity with which, and the courage with which you're helping people.
(21:43):
Have the conversations that we know are on their hearts.
They're talking in other places, but to talk about it in the church makes it so special and it's so important.
Thank you.
A little bit ago, Jan and I were having a conversation about Elderhood and how the spiritual journey at the, at the, in the later years pre presents a super opportunity for you to work on your spiritual bucket list.
For you to think about who am I called to be, not just being known, my identity is tied up in what I do.
(00:32):
Mm-hmm.
Whether that's profession or raising kids or what, what have you.
There's another.
Program that you have had a lot of experience with, which is helping people with the spiritual practice.
Ooh, there's a dove.
Hi here.
Hi.
Holy Spirit.
Little do.
Holy Spirit.
Thanks for coming to visit.
And that's very apropos because part of what you're working on is, um, the spiritual journey of helping people think about the end of their earthly life.
(00:57):
The preparation for crossing over into the eternal life promised to us in Jesus Christ, our Lord.
A lot of us don't want to think about that.
A lot of us are la la, la, la.
I'm not gonna die.
And then, you know, or take me when I don't know about it, think about it.
But you have a way of thinking about this as a spiritual practice, and you've got some materials.
I'd love for you to kind of tell us how you think about helping people with the spiritual practice of thinking about the end of life.
(01:24):
Well, in my, in my former life, um, I was a planned giving officer for Presbyterian Healthcare Foundation and the University of New Mexico School of Law.
And in those roles I had the great.
Opportunity to talk with people about leaving a planned gift to an institution.
And we know that when people leave a planned gift to one place, they usually leave it to three to five.
(01:51):
Hmm.
So I didn't see any difference in the church of, and had no compunction of saying.
Michael, we need to talk about what legacy you want to leave to St.
Mary's, how you want to continue your ethos in the St.
Mary's congregation and just right there, that's a conversation a lot of clergy are afraid to have.
(02:17):
'cause they're worried about being money grubbing or they're worried about, it's not all about the money, but the reality is our financial commitments.
Are about the fruit of our labor, and people do want to have their life and their gift mean something.
Right.
So you're you're offering an opportunity in a way.
Yeah.
Well, and the other thing I think that we who sit on this side of that.
(02:41):
Tend to forget is that you have a need to give.
Mm-hmm.
We're created.
Right? Part of the part of being created in the image of God is what is God, but one who gives created this whole universe and the doves and the trees and the whole thing for us to enjoy.
God is fundamentally creative and that means God is fundamentally giving, right? So part of our being created in the image of God is that we are fundamentally givers.
(03:08):
Yeah.
And, and the individual person's need to give is going to happen.
Um, whether it's $5 or $500,000.
The, the money is not particularly, the amount is not particularly important, but giving you the opportunity to tell us.
(03:28):
What you want done with it.
Mm-hmm.
When you're no longer here, would you like it to continue your pledge for many years? Mm-hmm.
Would you like it to go into the building or go into an outreach fund? Mm-hmm.
Would you like it just to be left with a vestry to decide how they might need to spend it, whatever those needs might be that we can't see.
(03:51):
There'll be 20 years from now.
Right.
Right.
All of those questions are intended to help somebody think about it.
Mm-hmm.
Then we can back off the money thing and talk about something more concrete.
And that is their funeral plan.
Yeah.
Now I don't, I know you probably don't wanna think about this, but you know, I really need to know.
(04:13):
Mm-hmm.
I'd much rather have this conversation around this kitchen table or in this beautiful garden than to have it around your hospital table when you're not with it.
Yep.
Yep.
I wanna know.
Or even worse, you sudden pass away and we're putting together what we think you might have liked.
Instead of having the fondness of remembering, I remember when they chose that hymn and what it was about.
(04:36):
Right.
So we can have that conversation so that we really know how to celebrate your life.
'cause that's what we do.
Yeah.
At the end of life, we sing Hallelujah at the grave.
We celebrate that.
Life is changed, but not ended.
Not in it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you've got some, what's your ways you frame that conversation? Yeah.
Like what's your favorite song? Yeah.
Um, I have a little book that I put together that, um, well first of all, I have a, I have a check sheet.
(05:03):
I'm a check sheet kind of gal.
I like that 'cause I'm getting old and I don't remember everything.
So we basically put down basic demographic information, um, and then we just talk, start talking about the parts of the liturgy.
Mm-hmm.
And what's important to you? Do you have a favorite flower? Hmm.
Um, what's your favorite song? Yes.
(05:25):
Who do you want to read? Mm-hmm.
And once we kind of think about that, then we can talk about what do you want them to read? Yeah.
And how do you want them to participate that way? So in order to facilitate that, especially with our older people.
I put together a little notebook that has, um, all the suggested Old Testament readings, new Testament songs, gospels, and then I just pulled and copied a bunch of hymns that we've used for funerals.
(05:55):
Typically, um, not all of them from our hymnal, but ones like in the gardens in there and people go Eck.
But it is some that our people just clinging to my great grandmother.
Hmm.
Saying that to my grand or my mo, my grandmother saying that to my great-grandmother when she died.
Yeah.
So that when we have those kinds of memories, we want to honor that.
(06:16):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So we go through, the strife is over.
He has risen.
Um, just some of the ones that, that we've used in the past to stimulate thinking.
That's super helpful.
'cause not everybody reads music, first of all.
And also if you were to ask me, I know I have hymns that I love.
I can't pull 'em outta my brain like that, you know? Mm-hmm.
(06:37):
So, having them in the booklet where we can, 'cause I understand you take this booklet, you leave it with the person, you walk 'em through, here's the choices that you might consider, think about it and we'll talk again in a couple of weeks when you'd like to.
Right.
And it allows people at their own time.
'cause contemplating our mortality is always a bit of a challenge.
It's a spiritual practice, right? Mm-hmm.
Kind of look death in the face, and it raises how much do I believe in this resurrection thing? Do I really put my trust in Jesus like that? That's a hard thing, but it is a spiritual practice of acknowledging the preciousness of the life we've been given by thinking about what, what do we want that final remembrance of our life to be? And I think what I love about the way you do it is that.
(07:21):
It would also allow the family members to really know and appreciate why they're doing what they're doing, and, and that allows us to celebrate you even more.
I have a great story for you.
One person I sat down to do this with said just a minute.
They got up and they ran in and they pulled out a file of old funeral bulletins where they encircled stuff that they liked.
(07:43):
I love it.
And I said, that's exactly what we're talking about.
I love it.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll turn to my husband and say, that's one of my favorite hymns.
He said, Jan, every hymn is your favorite hymn.
Could you write down five of them, please? So I think, I think people have thought about it more.
Then we acknowledge.
Mm-hmm.
Because it comes to, it comes to, to all of us.
(08:07):
We'll have moments where we think about it and sometimes consciously push it away.
I don't wanna deal with that right now, but, but there's a spiritual practice of welcoming that contemplation.
And even in our, if you're praying the daily office, which I hope everybody is, a lot of those prayers in Kalin.
I mean, the fact that we have the NUNUs in there in Kalin every night, Lord.
(08:29):
Now let us, thou thy servant part in peace.
There's a great monastic tradition of, uh, remembering your death.
As a present reality, and that's a part of that prayer is that as the sun is setting, yes, we are contemplating, there will come a time when the sun is setting on my life and I'm not sure I'm gonna wake up in the morning anyway.
(08:51):
So there's a sense in which there's an opportunity spiritually for us to live each day as if it were our last, if you will.
Um, by, by having each day be precious.
When I was actually doing my own, I thought, okay, what is it that I wanna communicate? And I decided that I wanted the readings, the psalm, the hymns to be a sermon.
(09:16):
Mm-hmm.
This is what I want you to hear.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And I was very, very particular with what I chose to put in there.
Yeah.
So that, um.
Whomever did the sermon, had a lot of good fodder.
Mm-hmm.
Well, you bring up an important point because the, the, the funeral service is for the people who are here.
(09:38):
Mm-hmm.
Right? And, and so, uh, sometimes when I used to have these conversations with parishioners, um, sometimes I would encounter somebody who would say, oh, I don't care.
They can figure it out.
And they would say, you know, oh, I don't know.
They'll, they'll figure it out.
There is a sense in which.
Inviting that conversation ahead of time allows you to be in dialogue with the people to say to them, this faith mattered to me and I want you to hear about it.
(10:08):
You know, um, there, there's a sense in which, uh, thinking about the people that will be in that room can be a very tender thing as well.
It's empowering their theology mm-hmm.
To come out in the lessons that they choose, the hymns that they choose.
I.
Whatever they, they choose to do.
Yeah.
So it's, it's really kind of fun and I get all kinds of wonderful responses.
(10:30):
I don't know that I've ever had anybody say, oh, I don't wanna talk about that.
Mm-hmm.
Usually they're thinking about it as you said, they, they're, they're thinking about it on their own.
Yeah.
But having the church walk with you.
Through this journey.
That's what we're here for.
Exactly.
Every phase of life.
Exactly.
So leading into that, what we're doing at St.
Mary's for Lent is we're doing a program called Leave A Legacy, and we're taking it each Sunday in Lent, and we're talking about various things that happen in Elderhood and especially towards the end of life.
(11:01):
The.
Care plan, the do not resuscitate, do not intubate the advanced directive.
What's the difference between hospice, palliative care, and curative care? How does that all work together? Who should I do? What should I think about? So those kinds of things.
And then we have legal considerations of what you need to put together.
(11:24):
Mm-hmm.
Um.
We're, we're encouraging people to put it in a safe place, but to let somebody know where that safe place is and give them gee.
Right.
Right.
'cause it is such a gift for people.
I, I've, I've again walked with, as you have, I know many families who suddenly their loved one is at death's door and they don't know what to do.
(11:46):
They haven't had the conversation, and that can be anguish for the family members or your loved ones at that point.
Whereas if you can have the conversations, first of all, think about it yourself.
What, what? What do I want it to look like in a variety of scenarios? And who do I want to make those decisions when I'm not able to make decisions for myself? Mm-hmm.
And then to communicate with those folks and give them the key to the safe deposit box where the plan is, tell it's or, or have it, you know, easy to hand with copies, um, that they have, you know, so that when they show up at the hospital, here's the document that can be super helpful.
(12:22):
Like, for example, most people don't know that EMS emergency.
Medical people will look on your refrigerator and on, on your door for an advanced directive, and if it's there, then they are by law, must follow it.
They'll take it.
Yep.
Yes.
Yep.
Yeah, and and a lot of people wouldn't know that.
Right.
(12:42):
Just have an envelope on your fridge.
That'll help you remember as well as you go to mm-hmm.
Eat the food for today.
You'll remember.
Yeah.
That it's there.
So we're doing six sessions, one each Sunday in lt mm-hmm.
To help people look at how to deal with estates and the states.
Walk us through each of the sessions just to tell us what you're planning.
'cause 'cause we're gonna try to steal this for the diocese too.
(13:04):
Okay.
I think it's a great way you've organized it well.
Session one is medical and spiritual concerns.
Session two is legal considerations and estate planning.
What is a will, what is a trust? Mm-hmm.
I've already got my will.
How can I amend it? A simple codicil how to do that.
It can be very easy.
You don't have to make this complicated.
Yep.
And it's important to know we're, we're you're bringing in speakers who have expertise in the area.
(13:28):
This isn't free legal advice and we're not gonna do your will in that way.
But I think a lot of people don't even know what the terms are or how to begin or where to go.
So this is really helpful, kind of saying if you've taken care of each of these six items, thought about each of these six sets of issues, then you're good.
Absolutely.
The third one is financial considerations in estate planning.
(13:51):
And that's, um, how to deal with retirement accounts, liquid assets, any kind of, um, other kinds of assets that you might have, and what's the way to deal with that so that it can be easily transferable and won't cost your, uh, heirs.
Oh, that the taxes won't eat up.
Yeah.
Large percentages, right? And why you wanna do a will? Because if you die in test state, 80% of it's gonna go to the state.
(14:15):
Is that what you want? Right.
Right.
And most people would say, absolutely not.
Maybe not.
Well then let's take the, let's take the, and let's take the step to do that.
Um, then we're talking about pro probate.
What happens after somebody dies? And how do you probate if you haven't had a trust? Documents, so it just flows.
But if you have to probate a will or if or when do you, at what level do you, which is about $50,000, under 50,000, you don't have to probate.
(14:43):
Okay.
It's the total value of the estate, right.
And how to do that.
And then we have a practical session where I'm gonna hand out the funeral forms, right.
And everybody's gonna sit there and gonna fiddle around with them, and we're gonna answer questions and talk about.
All that kind of stuff is a work session.
That's marvelous.
Yeah.
That's marvelous.
This, these are, these are things that we should all, you know, kind of suck it up and embrace.
(15:05):
This is about our life.
It's about what a life has meant to me and what I wanna say to my loved ones about my life.
And it creates so many opportunities for intimacy, opportunities for us to have conversations that we don't wanna miss.
So we don't wanna miss, it's just wonderful ministry that you're doing.
Jam.
Thank you.
The, um.
(15:26):
It just comes back so, so much and so easy, and once people have made the decision to include the church in their will or the their estate plan, they have a higher stake in seeing where things are going.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Because they know that they're attached now.
(15:46):
Yeah.
In a different way and committed to this community.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
In a different kind of way.
Right? Yep.
Right.
Yeah.
So God bless them.
We have some wonderful people here.
Yeah.
Who've left some money from their wills and estates.
It's allowing us to keep this older facility going and getting it spiffy up from time to time.
Yep.
And we have literally, no matter what church you're in, we have all inherited.
(16:09):
The church that we have from those that have gone before and they treasured it and they loved it, and they put a new roof on it and they got a new boiler for it, and they fixed the parking lot and they provided for the clergy.
They provided for the administrator and they provided for the music.
We have an opportunity in our day to make sure that this church that we love continues into the next generation and the generation after that.
(16:32):
One of the things we know is that the younger folks, they tend to not attend church in as many numbers.
They're not able to pay as much in terms of pledging, and that has a lot to do with the way retirement planning is, is done in professions.
Now, people do not have defined benefit retirement.
Their 401k is their vehicle to save.
(16:53):
They know that every dollar I put into the church plate.
Literally is a dollar I might need in later life.
So there's the different kind of calculation than there was before.
Same thing with the cost of healthcare.
Used to be that if you had, uh, a stable job, you also had healthcare for your family and it was reasonably priced.
Now, even if you've got a great healthcare plan.
(17:16):
A hospital stay could blow your budget for a long period of time, so people are not able to give in the same way that they used to.
So those that have the opportunity to help set up the church for the next generation, I'm really grateful if they, if and when they do that well, I'm gonna take it a step forward based on where we're going in the diocese.
(17:38):
And that is not only for St.
Mary's as an institution, but for the diocesan.
Program to get it forward because the, the funds coming into the diocese are getting smaller and smaller and smaller.
We know, so endowing some things in the diocese I'll talk to people about, think of St.
Mary's, but.
You person have been very active in diocese and work.
(18:01):
Don't forget to include the diocese in some of that too.
Yeah.
It is true that our diocese does not have large endowments.
I mean, I think a lot of people have moved here from other places where their diocese may have an endowment of $50 million or $20 million or whatever.
Ours is three total for the whole diocese.
Uh, and is looking after 50 churches.
(18:22):
So, so there is a real need there in terms of the very existence of the Episcopal Church in New Mexico and far West Texas and what that will actually look like.
We need some help with that.
It's not set.
And so that's where I'd love for the Episcopalians in the diocese to really know and, and be aware that you, the church has not said it and forget it.
(18:43):
It'll always be here.
We are at an inflection point where it may not.
And so as people are thinking about what they love and the spiritual journey, my hope is that the Episcopal Church has given many gifts mm-hmm.
To people and that they would like for those gifts to cascade into the next generation so that this church is still there for their grandchildren.
Well, and I appreciate what you've always said is that from the diocesan level.
(19:09):
You have to look after the church in Tuum Care.
It is the only Episcopal church within a huge, almost two and a half hour radius.
Mm-hmm.
For anybody to go to church.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we need that Episcopal church in Tuum Care, New Mexico.
And that's just one example.
Yep.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
The, we have a wonderful senior warden there who's about in her early thirties.
(19:32):
She has a young infant daughter, and the church in Tuum Carey cannot afford their own priest.
So there are clergy that are driving sometimes four hours or more to get there.
Mm-hmm.
So that they can have a Eucharist.
They're a dedicated community there in Tuum.
And like you say.
You gotta go two and a half hours to get to the next place where if you're divorced, you can have your child baptized.
(19:54):
Or if you are looking for the message of the loving God that we preach in the Episcopal church, you gotta go two and a half hours to hear that.
And, and there are other congregations I was with one last week where, uh, it's a, it's a university town in New Mexico.
There is a Roman church.
There's a lot of non-denominational churches, but the Presbyterian church has closed.
(20:17):
The Methodist Church is having an issue right now and is really in decline.
The Episcopal Church is the only mainline denomination.
There's no Lutheran church.
There's no Presbyterian church.
No Methodist church.
The Methodist Church is, is struggling because of what's going on in Methodism right now, and the Episcopal church is the place so.
That is an important gift that we can be to continue the Episcopal Church and make sure it's here.
(20:40):
So as people are thinking about the spiritual journey and the importance of the church in nurturing their faith, I invite, we're gonna be inviting everybody in the diocese you bet to, to think through this as a spiritual practice and to think about how important it is that.
Others have made sure there was, there were bishops who rode out here on horseback and by train.
That's right.
(21:00):
Which then has led to the diocese that we have right now.
There will be church buildings that come and go as they have since the beginning of time.
Mm-hmm.
But the diocese is the unit where we all have a place at the table, and the diocese is the unit that makes sure Tuum Carey still has a church.
Deming still has a church.
Gallup still has a church.
Fort Stockton still has a church that.
(21:22):
Breadth is not just in the big churches in the urban areas, but it's also true that you have comans and priests at the big churches because of the legacy that others have given.
And we have an opportunity in our day to continue that legacy.
So Jan, thank you so much.
Thank you for all you're doing and for the clarity with which, and the courage with which you're helping people.
(21:43):
Have the conversations that we know are on their hearts.
They're talking in other places, but to talk about it in the church makes it so special and it's so important.
Thank you.
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