January 25, 2025 • 19 mins
The President met a Bishop this week...Navigating Church and Society: A Message from Bishop Michael Hunn
In this insightful message, Bishop Michael Hunn of the Diocese of the Rio Grande discusses the diverse reactions within the Episcopal community to recent political events and a controversial sermon at Washington National Cathedral. Bishop Hunn delves into the significance of the separation of church and state, the role of the church in societal dialogue, and what it means to be part of the Episcopal Church. He emphasizes the importance of mercy, compassion, and respect for all, inviting everyone to participate in creating a beloved community.
00:00 Introduction and Context
01:16 Addressing the Diversity of Opinions
03:28 Church and State: A Historical Perspective
04:47 The Role of the Church in Society
08:05 The Story of Bishop Ambrose
10:54 Expectations in the Episcopal Church
15:40 A Call for Unity and Compassion
19:27 Conclusion and Blessings
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey there, my friends.
I'm Michael Hunn, and I'm the Bishop of the Diocese of the Rio Grande in the Episcopal Church.
that diocese that covers the state of New Mexico and the far west part of Texas.
And as you might imagine, it's been kind of a crazy week for all of us around the diocese of the Rio Grande. 5 00:00:17,50.1 --> 00:00:27,500 And I have received in my inbox and in conversation with Episcopalians in our diocese, the wide range of.
(00:27):
Responses to the events of this week.
Of course, we have a new president who was inaugurated earlier this week. 8 00:00:36,409.999 --> 00:00:41,310.001 and then of course, on Tuesday, the Episcopal Bishop of the Diocese of Washington. 9 00:00:41,399.999 --> 00:00:50,910 My colleague, Mary Ann Budde, the Bishop who presides over Washington National Cathedral and the diocese, which includes DC.
(00:52):
Gave a sermon and some of you in the diocese have responded with great joy and enthusiasm.
.999Finally, someone stood up and said, what is on my heart? Others of you in the diocese have communicated with me to say, you are outraged, you're not sure if you can continue to pledge or even attend the Episcopal church.
(01:16):
Today, I'd like to speak to that situation in our diocese.
And I'd like to talk about a couple of things.
I'd like to talk about the place of church in society.
I'd like to talk about the role of bishops in speaking truth in that society.
.999I'd like to talk about why we go to church in the first place and what to expect when you go to an Episcopal church.
(01:38):
I'd also like to then remind us all who we are.
as Episcopalians, followers of Jesus Christ, and reiterate some things that you've heard me say many times before.
.999So, let's get started. 20 00:01:55,234.999 --> 00:02:06,924.9985 As I've been prayerfully considering the diversity of opinion with respect to a single sermon preached by a bishop to a president in the Washington National Cathedral. 21 00:02:08,44.9985 --> 00:02:13,704.9985 And as I've listened to people who are on both sides of that debate, this is what strikes me. 22 00:02:14,434.9975 --> 00:02:26,314.9985 There are some of us in the Diocese of the Rio Grande who go to church with the expectation that church will be a sanctuary, a safe space where they will not have to hear the political rancor. 23 00:02:26,764.9985 --> 00:02:36,924.9985 Where their political commitments will not be called into question and where they can go to have a little shelter from the storm that is our national political life. 24 00:02:38,74.9985 --> 00:02:57,754.9985 There are others, in the diocese who go to the Episcopal church in order to, in this climate, feel that they have a safe space, a sanctuary where their reality and their identity will be affirmed by leaders and by a church that will say things like, if you are an immigrant, you're welcome here. 25 00:02:58,384.9985 --> 00:02:59,834.9985 We recognize your humanity. 26 00:03:00,534.9985 --> 00:03:04,624.9985 If you are gay or lesbian or transgender, we recognize your humanity. 27 00:03:04,634.9975 --> 00:03:10,404.9985 And we want to tell you that God loves you here in a world that is telling you something else out there. 28 00:03:12,114.9985 --> 00:03:19,404.9975 There are people in our diocese who are coming to our Episcopal churches for sanctuary because they feel threatened in this moment. 29 00:03:19,405.0975 --> 00:03:26,154.9985 And there are people who are coming to our Episcopal churches looking for a safe place to not talk about politics. 30 00:03:28,84.9985 --> 00:03:40,984.9985 So, I'd like to talk a little bit more deeply about the relationship between church and state, and I want to draw some church history into the conversation to remind us and provide some perspective. 31 00:03:42,594.9975 --> 00:03:58,601.73 When we're talking about the place of church in society, and when I, as a bishop, talk specifically about the role of the Episcopal Church in society, my role as a bishop in the Diocese of inevitably, the separation of church and state comes up. 32 00:03:59,631.73 --> 00:04:01,701.73 So I want to be clear about a couple of things. 33 00:04:02,461.73 --> 00:04:07,451.729 Some people think the separation of church and state means the church should never say anything political. 34 00:04:07,631.73 --> 00:04:10,781.73 The church should never address any moral or ethical issue. 35 00:04:11,11.73 --> 00:04:13,311.73 You should go to church and only pray to God. 36 00:04:13,496.73 --> 00:04:19,676.73 not hear anything about what's going on in the society around you that might be offensive to you or disagree with you. 37 00:04:21,36.73 --> 00:04:30,136.73 there are other people who come to church, expecting the prophetic witness of the church to cry out against what is immoral in the world. 38 00:04:30,676.731 --> 00:04:33,526.731 And so I have seen in our Episcopal church. 39 00:04:33,751.731 --> 00:04:36,991.731 People who are coming to church with very different expectations. 40 00:04:37,201.731 --> 00:04:41,851.731 Some get offended when the church doesn't speak up about what's going on in the world. 41 00:04:42,301.73 --> 00:04:46,161.731 Others get offended when the church does speak up about what's going on in the world. 42 00:04:47,431.731 --> 00:04:51,491.73 I want to be clear as the Bishop of the Diocese of the Rio Grande, what I think about all that. 43 00:04:51,881.731 --> 00:05:01,511.731 First of all, I think the separation of church and state is a good thing because there has to be separation and difference for a good dialogue to take place. 44 00:05:02,351.731 --> 00:05:14,921.731 I think it makes sense that churches doing the work of God should not be forced or closed down or have to worry about the government telling them what they have to believe or telling them what they have to do. 45 00:05:15,661.731 --> 00:05:26,671.731 And that includes, I don't think the church should be out there breaking the law, but the church should not be forced, for example, to check somebody's papers before they feed the hungry or clothe the naked. 46 00:05:27,356.731 --> 00:05:34,526.731 Because quite frankly, feeding the hungry and clothing the naked are part of our religious obligation as followers of Jesus Christ. 47 00:05:35,106.731 --> 00:05:38,886.731 So, the state needs to let the church be the church. 48 00:05:39,706.731 --> 00:05:47,576.73 Also, the church doesn't need to be passing litmus tests like, unless you're an Episcopalian, you can't be President of the United States. 49 00:05:48,56.731 --> 00:05:52,816.731 The state needs to preserve the freedom of religion for all of us. 50 00:05:53,136.731 --> 00:05:55,666.731 That means the state needs to stay off the properties. 51 00:05:56,176.731 --> 00:05:58,106.731 of religious institutions. 52 00:05:58,326.731 --> 00:06:08,306.731 the state needs to not come into churches in order to try to find somebody The state should not send immigration agents into a worship service. 53 00:06:09,656.732 --> 00:06:12,756.732 The state needs to back off and let the church do what the church does. 54 00:06:16,161.732 --> 00:06:39,926.732 When church and state come together, for example, at a prayer service for the funeral of a president or for prayers for national unity at the beginning of a new presidential administration, that is a time in which The church needs to not be partisan, but the church needs to address the ethical and moral issues. 55 00:06:40,946.732 --> 00:06:49,716.732 The church and its religious leaders need to provide instruction about the Christian view of power and what it's for. 56 00:06:50,936.732 --> 00:06:56,176.732 And so I have no problem meeting with the governor of the state of Texas or the state of New Mexico. 57 00:06:56,176.732 --> 00:07:01,686.732 I have no problem meeting with the mayor of any of the cities in my diocese because. 58 00:07:02,266.732 --> 00:07:08,156.732 Part of my role is to bring to those secular leaders the moral witness of my faith. 59 00:07:09,146.732 --> 00:07:15,276.732 And when I do that, I'm often joined by rabbis and imams and people from the ashram. 60 00:07:15,496.732 --> 00:07:25,946.732 I am often joined by people of faith of a variety of different, types, where we are all speaking about the morality that we are calling for in the government. 61 00:07:27,306.732 --> 00:07:28,616.732 That's not inappropriate. 62 00:07:28,636.732 --> 00:07:29,666.732 It's not illegal. 63 00:07:29,896.732 --> 00:07:32,176.732 It's part of what the separation of church and state should be. 64 00:07:32,866.732 --> 00:07:51,676.732 There should be enough distance and difference so that the church can thrive and be able to critique the government in much the same way that the free press needs to be protected in order for the government to hear what the people think, not just what they think the people think. 65 00:07:53,976.732 --> 00:07:58,326.732 So when it comes to separation of church and state, I don't think we should be partisan. 66 00:07:59,446.732 --> 00:08:04,366.732 I do think we should speak to the moral and ethical issues of the day. 67 00:08:05,336.732 --> 00:08:15,886.733 There's a story that's told about Bishop Ambrose, the Bishop of Milan, who in the fourth century became bishop in Italy all those years ago. 68 00:08:16,746.733 --> 00:08:18,126.733 And the story goes like this. 69 00:08:19,141.733 --> 00:08:29,561.733 The bishop was preaching at a sermon, and there was a wealthy nobleman, who was not a member of the church, but was a wealthy nobleman, who came to hear Bishop Ambrose speak. 70 00:08:29,891.733 --> 00:08:39,491.733 And that wealthy nobleman came into the church, went up to the front, and took his seat in one of the places of honor, where all the leaders of the church were gathered. 71 00:08:40,201.733 --> 00:08:41,761.733 His logic was very simple. 72 00:08:42,131.733 --> 00:08:43,851.733 I am a leader of this community. 73 00:08:43,961.733 --> 00:08:45,941.733 I am one of the elite. 74 00:08:46,321.733 --> 00:08:48,651.733 I belong up there with the elite. 75 00:08:48,651.733 --> 00:08:51,281.733 So he walked into the room, into the cathedral. 76 00:08:51,421.733 --> 00:08:52,911.733 He saw the seats of honor. 77 00:08:52,921.733 --> 00:08:54,511.733 He said, that's where I'm supposed to sit. 78 00:08:54,771.733 --> 00:08:57,161.734 And he went up there, Box seat at the super bowl. 79 00:08:58,381.734 --> 00:09:10,751.733 Bishop Ambrose saw that he was there, sitting among the seats of honor in the cathedral, and Bishop Ambrose removed him from his seat in public. 80 00:09:11,311.734 --> 00:09:19,751.734 And as you might imagine, this wealthy, privileged person really felt caught off guard and was completely offended. 81 00:09:20,591.734 --> 00:09:26,21.734 The people around Bishop Ambrose were very concerned as well, because this was a person of influence. 82 00:09:26,581.733 --> 00:09:32,851.734 And they came to Bishop Ambrose and they said, Look, this guy that you just kicked out, he's a big deal. 83 00:09:32,881.734 --> 00:09:51,461.734 And, he's out there saying, I can't believe I have never been talked to in this manner by anyone in my entire life to which Bishop Ambrose said, well, maybe he's never met a Bishop before this week. 84 00:09:51,971.734 --> 00:10:07,571.733 The President of the United States, the most powerful man in the world, met a bishop, maybe for the first time, and encountered the power of the pulpit in a way that obviously he didn't like and was uncomfortable. 85 00:10:09,301.734 --> 00:10:21,166.734 In our Episcopal Church, from the time of the Revolutionary War, We have been part of the conversation about the nature and identity of this country. 86 00:10:21,176.734 --> 00:10:29,676.734 Sometimes very much uncomfortably and sometimes because of our privilege and our historical relationship to the crown in England, et cetera. 87 00:10:30,876.734 --> 00:10:33,866.734 It is the Episcopal church that built the national cathedral. 88 00:10:34,526.734 --> 00:10:39,336.734 It is the National Cathedral where presidents like President Jimmy Carter are buried from. 89 00:10:40,216.734 --> 00:10:44,236.734 It is in the National Cathedral where we gather for prayers for the nation. 90 00:10:44,416.733 --> 00:10:49,606.734 It is the National Cathedral built by the Episcopal Church, run and operated by the Episcopal Church. 91 00:10:49,796.734 --> 00:10:53,56.734 the National Cathedral is a house of prayer for all people. 92 00:10:54,806.734 --> 00:10:59,566.734 So what should you expect when you come into an Episcopal church? Let me just be plain about it. 93 00:10:59,576.734 --> 00:11:03,936.734 When you come into the Episcopal church, you may not always hear what you want to hear. 94 00:11:05,301.734 --> 00:11:12,311.734 But it is my prayer and my commitment as a bishop that when you come into one of our churches, you will hear what you need to hear. 95 00:11:13,301.734 --> 00:11:15,131.734 And sometimes that's uncomfortable. 96 00:11:16,191.734 --> 00:11:22,421.734 We see Jesus in the New Testament often making people uncomfortable who have power and privilege. 97 00:11:22,981.734 --> 00:11:31,461.734 I'm thinking, of course, about the story, for example, of the rich young ruler who came and said, what should I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus says, love your neighbor. 98 00:11:32,671.734 --> 00:11:38,501.733 The rich young person says, well, who's my neighbor? And that's when Jesus tells the story of the good Samaritan. 99 00:11:39,951.734 --> 00:11:47,931.734 The neighbor is the one who shows mercy to the person who is beaten up, left for dead, and robbed at the side of the road. 100 00:11:47,931.734 --> 00:11:50,661.734 It doesn't matter if you're a Samaritan or a priest or a lawyer. 101 00:11:51,101.734 --> 00:11:54,1.734 Who is the neighbor? The person who shows mercy. 102 00:11:55,311.733 --> 00:12:01,991.734 You see, the term mercy in our Christian tradition is more than just a justice word. 103 00:12:02,476.734 --> 00:12:05,946.734 You might think about mercy and say, well, mercy is letting someone off the hook. 104 00:12:05,956.734 --> 00:12:08,816.734 Mercy is withdrawing the punishment. 105 00:12:09,46.734 --> 00:12:11,166.734 Well, that's one way to talk about mercy. 106 00:12:11,986.733 --> 00:12:17,286.734 But in the Christian tradition, mercy is talked about in a much broader sense. 107 00:12:17,366.734 --> 00:12:32,581.734 In fact, if you're Roman Catholic, you know that there are seven corporal works of mercy, and they include things like, mercy means feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving shelter to the traveler who is moving through. 108 00:12:33,221.734 --> 00:12:39,491.734 It is about treating everybody with love and dignity because God treats us. 109 00:12:39,966.734 --> 00:12:41,376.734 with love and dignity. 110 00:12:42,416.734 --> 00:12:47,626.734 Mercy is about forgiving others as we have been forgiven by God and Jesus Christ. 111 00:12:48,636.734 --> 00:12:59,206.734 Mercy in the Christian tradition is about living in a different world, where violence and retributive justice are not the rules of the game. 112 00:13:00,956.734 --> 00:13:09,776.734 Mercy is about imagining what would it be like if every single one of us treated every single other one with compassion and mercy. 113 00:13:10,856.734 --> 00:13:13,526.734 Now sometimes love has to be tough love. 114 00:13:13,936.734 --> 00:13:19,536.734 Sometimes I gotta grab you and pull you out of the street cause a bus is about to run you down and you didn't see it coming. 115 00:13:20,156.734 --> 00:13:26,386.734 Sometimes I have to, out of love, tell you how your behavior is impacting me and my experience. 116 00:13:27,141.734 --> 00:13:32,21.734 Sometimes an act of love is saying, Hey, you've got seven sandwiches and they're hungry. 117 00:13:32,21.734 --> 00:13:39,531.734 How about you share some sandwiches? As Jesus said, Hey, if you got two coats and someone has zero share, that's what mercy is about. 118 00:13:41,191.734 --> 00:13:45,271.734 The Christian teaching, following Jesus Christ, following the way of Jesus Christ. 119 00:13:45,791.734 --> 00:13:47,791.734 My friends, this should not be news. 120 00:13:48,501.734 --> 00:13:54,41.734 Following in the way of Jesus Christ means having mercy to others the way God has mercy to us. 121 00:13:56,341.734 --> 00:14:07,331.734 And so if you've never heard a bishop say that kind of thing, if you've never heard a bishop say that kind of thing to a person in power, maybe you were surprised. 122 00:14:07,481.733 --> 00:14:11,501.734 Maybe the president was surprised because maybe he'd never really talked to a bishop before. 123 00:14:12,841.734 --> 00:14:21,931.734 But my friends, if you're coming into an Episcopal church We come here not to just hear what we want to hear and have our existing ideas. 124 00:14:22,476.734 --> 00:14:53,156.833 Just underline don't choose the Episcopal Church because we believe in everything that you believe in choose the Episcopal Church because in this place we will provide a safe sanctuary where you can confess your sins and learn to be a better human being than you are already come to the Episcopal Church because in this church Republicans and Democrats come together to learn from each other and to grow together in unity doing the work of God together. 125 00:14:53,416.833 --> 00:14:57,66.833 Come to the Episcopal Church because in this church everybody's welcome. 126 00:14:57,96.833 --> 00:14:58,736.833 Even you, even me. 127 00:14:59,176.832 --> 00:15:01,176.833 You can bring your differences of opinion. 128 00:15:01,626.832 --> 00:15:03,636.833 You can be gay or straight or trans. 129 00:15:04,151.833 --> 00:15:06,741.833 You are welcome because God made you and God loves you. 130 00:15:08,471.833 --> 00:15:20,241.833 Come to the Episcopal Church because you want to be part of a beloved community that exists in multi cultures, speaking many languages, bringing in different styles of dress. 131 00:15:20,551.833 --> 00:15:28,211.833 Come to the Episcopal Church because here we are trying to create a beloved community where everyone is treated with honor and mercy and respect. 132 00:15:28,431.833 --> 00:15:32,791.833 Why? Not because we're afraid God's going to punish us if we don't. 133 00:15:33,951.833 --> 00:15:38,61.833 But because we want to live in a beloved community where everyone has a place. 134 00:15:40,696.833 --> 00:16:00,566.832 That's what I want you to expect when you come to an Episcopal Church in the Diocese of the Rio Grande and in that spirit I now want to say to you some things you've been hearing me say over and over again In the Diocese of the Rio Grande which encompasses 40 percent of the US Mexico border, we are calling for sane immigration policies. 135 00:16:00,756.832 --> 00:16:12,101.833 Why? Out of love, compassion and mercy for everyone who is the stranger because of work of Corporal Mercy is to shelter those who are traveling through. 136 00:16:12,241.833 --> 00:16:14,461.832 And that's what we do in the Diocese of the Rio Grande. 137 00:16:14,581.833 --> 00:16:22,741.833 We are not breaking the law and we are not sheltering fugitives What we are doing is treating everyone with dignity and respect. 138 00:16:23,711.834 --> 00:16:26,921.834 And we collaborate with the Border Patrol to do so. 139 00:16:26,921.834 --> 00:16:30,141.833 We help provide services that the federal government doesn't provide. 140 00:16:31,191.834 --> 00:16:33,821.834 We do not ask for your papers before we feed you. 141 00:16:35,91.834 --> 00:16:39,481.834 We do not make you say our prayers before we give you clothes and shoes. 142 00:16:40,41.834 --> 00:16:44,221.834 We do not judge you before we offer you religious services or welcome you to prayer. 143 00:16:45,71.834 --> 00:16:45,461.834 No. 144 00:16:46,281.834 --> 00:16:51,571.834 In the Episcopal Church, following the way of Jesus Christ, we welcome you first. 145 00:16:52,561.834 --> 00:16:53,911.834 We recognize your humanity. 146 00:16:55,101.834 --> 00:16:56,71.834 We offer you mercy. 147 00:16:57,791.834 --> 00:17:10,251.834 In the Episcopal Church, if you are gay, lesbian, or trans, or straight, If you're married or single or dating, if your heart's been broken, or if you're madly in love, guess what? You're welcome in the Episcopal Church. 148 00:17:10,421.834 --> 00:17:14,591.834 We love you, and you could be, if God calls you, you could be ordained. 149 00:17:14,691.834 --> 00:17:17,61.833 You could be a bishop, priest, or a deacon. 150 00:17:17,461.834 --> 00:17:19,371.833 In our church, you could be married. 151 00:17:20,331.834 --> 00:17:27,151.834 No matter what your background is, we recognize the love that God already has for you. 152 00:17:28,151.834 --> 00:17:32,51.834 And we want you to be a part of our community because we want to grow and learn together. 153 00:17:33,321.834 --> 00:17:37,771.834 When you come to an Episcopal church, if you're Republican, if you're Democrat, I want you in here. 154 00:17:37,801.834 --> 00:17:43,381.834 I want to hear your perspectives and I want you to share your perspectives with other people in the church. 155 00:17:44,111.833 --> 00:17:55,1.834 So if this week you were overjoyed because of what Bishop Mary Ann Budde said, I want you to come into the Episcopal church prepared to respectfully and honorably. 156 00:17:55,586.834 --> 00:18:11,886.834 Explain why to share how you maybe have felt persecuted and afraid and frightened and you felt that the words of Bishop Marianne made you feel safe and seen and love. 157 00:18:13,536.834 --> 00:18:21,506.834 And if you were outraged by what Bishop Marianne Budde said, I want you to come to the Episcopal Church in the Diocese of the Rio Grande and come with respect. 158 00:18:21,876.834 --> 00:18:25,336.834 Be prepared to say, Hey, here's why I didn't like that. 159 00:18:26,296.834 --> 00:18:28,876.834 And I want to hear and learn from why you did like it. 160 00:18:29,431.834 --> 00:18:42,31.834 And I want to share honestly with you This Episcopal Church, we're about, in this diocese, about half Republican, half Democrat, but we are all seeking the salvific love of Jesus Christ. 161 00:18:42,71.833 --> 00:18:42,481.834 All of us. 162 00:18:43,656.834 --> 00:18:51,736.834 So, I want you to come to the Episcopal Church, not just looking for a church that's going to make it easy for you to keep thinking what you already think. 163 00:18:52,996.834 --> 00:19:01,636.834 I want you to come to the Episcopal Church because you want to be part of a beloved, blessed community where everybody's voice is listened to with respect. 164 00:19:02,666.833 --> 00:19:10,186.833 Where we can disagree respectfully without being disagreeable, without calling people names, without getting mean and nasty. 165 00:19:11,201.834 --> 00:19:20,441.834 Where we can, as a people of God, be gathered around the altar because at the Eucharist, Jesus Christ makes us one body. 166 00:19:21,351.833 --> 00:19:25,231.833 Because Jesus Christ welcomes us all to the altar. 167 00:19:27,61.834 --> 00:19:29,831.834 My friends, I'm grateful to be a part of the Episcopal Church. 168 00:19:30,941.833 --> 00:19:32,931.833 And I want you to be a part of the Episcopal Church. 169 00:19:33,921.834 --> 00:19:35,681.834 I just want to be clear about the expectations. 170 00:19:36,811.834 --> 00:19:38,691.834 Come and be part of this blessed community. 171 00:19:38,691.834 --> 00:19:42,581.834 Bring your whole self as you are because God loves you. 172 00:19:43,381.834 --> 00:19:50,111.834 And we, for our part in this church, are going to help all of us grow and help us grow together. 173 00:19:51,141.834 --> 00:19:53,321.734 God bless you, Diocese of Rio Grande. 174 00:19:53,601.834 --> 00:19:54,121.834 We'll see you soon.
Hey there, my friends.
I'm Michael Hunn, and I'm the Bishop of the Diocese of the Rio Grande in the Episcopal Church.
that diocese that covers the state of New Mexico and the far west part of Texas.
And as you might imagine, it's been kind of a crazy week for all of us around the diocese of the Rio Grande. 5 00:00:17,50.1 --> 00:00:27,500 And I have received in my inbox and in conversation with Episcopalians in our diocese, the wide range of.
(00:27):
Responses to the events of this week.
Of course, we have a new president who was inaugurated earlier this week. 8 00:00:36,409.999 --> 00:00:41,310.001 and then of course, on Tuesday, the Episcopal Bishop of the Diocese of Washington. 9 00:00:41,399.999 --> 00:00:50,910 My colleague, Mary Ann Budde, the Bishop who presides over Washington National Cathedral and the diocese, which includes DC.
(00:52):
Gave a sermon and some of you in the diocese have responded with great joy and enthusiasm.
.999Finally, someone stood up and said, what is on my heart? Others of you in the diocese have communicated with me to say, you are outraged, you're not sure if you can continue to pledge or even attend the Episcopal church.
(01:16):
Today, I'd like to speak to that situation in our diocese.
And I'd like to talk about a couple of things.
I'd like to talk about the place of church in society.
I'd like to talk about the role of bishops in speaking truth in that society.
.999I'd like to talk about why we go to church in the first place and what to expect when you go to an Episcopal church.
(01:38):
I'd also like to then remind us all who we are.
as Episcopalians, followers of Jesus Christ, and reiterate some things that you've heard me say many times before.
.999So, let's get started. 20 00:01:55,234.999 --> 00:02:06,924.9985 As I've been prayerfully considering the diversity of opinion with respect to a single sermon preached by a bishop to a president in the Washington National Cathedral. 21 00:02:08,44.9985 --> 00:02:13,704.9985 And as I've listened to people who are on both sides of that debate, this is what strikes me. 22 00:02:14,434.9975 --> 00:02:26,314.9985 There are some of us in the Diocese of the Rio Grande who go to church with the expectation that church will be a sanctuary, a safe space where they will not have to hear the political rancor. 23 00:02:26,764.9985 --> 00:02:36,924.9985 Where their political commitments will not be called into question and where they can go to have a little shelter from the storm that is our national political life. 24 00:02:38,74.9985 --> 00:02:57,754.9985 There are others, in the diocese who go to the Episcopal church in order to, in this climate, feel that they have a safe space, a sanctuary where their reality and their identity will be affirmed by leaders and by a church that will say things like, if you are an immigrant, you're welcome here. 25 00:02:58,384.9985 --> 00:02:59,834.9985 We recognize your humanity. 26 00:03:00,534.9985 --> 00:03:04,624.9985 If you are gay or lesbian or transgender, we recognize your humanity. 27 00:03:04,634.9975 --> 00:03:10,404.9985 And we want to tell you that God loves you here in a world that is telling you something else out there. 28 00:03:12,114.9985 --> 00:03:19,404.9975 There are people in our diocese who are coming to our Episcopal churches for sanctuary because they feel threatened in this moment. 29 00:03:19,405.0975 --> 00:03:26,154.9985 And there are people who are coming to our Episcopal churches looking for a safe place to not talk about politics. 30 00:03:28,84.9985 --> 00:03:40,984.9985 So, I'd like to talk a little bit more deeply about the relationship between church and state, and I want to draw some church history into the conversation to remind us and provide some perspective. 31 00:03:42,594.9975 --> 00:03:58,601.73 When we're talking about the place of church in society, and when I, as a bishop, talk specifically about the role of the Episcopal Church in society, my role as a bishop in the Diocese of inevitably, the separation of church and state comes up. 32 00:03:59,631.73 --> 00:04:01,701.73 So I want to be clear about a couple of things. 33 00:04:02,461.73 --> 00:04:07,451.729 Some people think the separation of church and state means the church should never say anything political. 34 00:04:07,631.73 --> 00:04:10,781.73 The church should never address any moral or ethical issue. 35 00:04:11,11.73 --> 00:04:13,311.73 You should go to church and only pray to God. 36 00:04:13,496.73 --> 00:04:19,676.73 not hear anything about what's going on in the society around you that might be offensive to you or disagree with you. 37 00:04:21,36.73 --> 00:04:30,136.73 there are other people who come to church, expecting the prophetic witness of the church to cry out against what is immoral in the world. 38 00:04:30,676.731 --> 00:04:33,526.731 And so I have seen in our Episcopal church. 39 00:04:33,751.731 --> 00:04:36,991.731 People who are coming to church with very different expectations. 40 00:04:37,201.731 --> 00:04:41,851.731 Some get offended when the church doesn't speak up about what's going on in the world. 41 00:04:42,301.73 --> 00:04:46,161.731 Others get offended when the church does speak up about what's going on in the world. 42 00:04:47,431.731 --> 00:04:51,491.73 I want to be clear as the Bishop of the Diocese of the Rio Grande, what I think about all that. 43 00:04:51,881.731 --> 00:05:01,511.731 First of all, I think the separation of church and state is a good thing because there has to be separation and difference for a good dialogue to take place. 44 00:05:02,351.731 --> 00:05:14,921.731 I think it makes sense that churches doing the work of God should not be forced or closed down or have to worry about the government telling them what they have to believe or telling them what they have to do. 45 00:05:15,661.731 --> 00:05:26,671.731 And that includes, I don't think the church should be out there breaking the law, but the church should not be forced, for example, to check somebody's papers before they feed the hungry or clothe the naked. 46 00:05:27,356.731 --> 00:05:34,526.731 Because quite frankly, feeding the hungry and clothing the naked are part of our religious obligation as followers of Jesus Christ. 47 00:05:35,106.731 --> 00:05:38,886.731 So, the state needs to let the church be the church. 48 00:05:39,706.731 --> 00:05:47,576.73 Also, the church doesn't need to be passing litmus tests like, unless you're an Episcopalian, you can't be President of the United States. 49 00:05:48,56.731 --> 00:05:52,816.731 The state needs to preserve the freedom of religion for all of us. 50 00:05:53,136.731 --> 00:05:55,666.731 That means the state needs to stay off the properties. 51 00:05:56,176.731 --> 00:05:58,106.731 of religious institutions. 52 00:05:58,326.731 --> 00:06:08,306.731 the state needs to not come into churches in order to try to find somebody The state should not send immigration agents into a worship service. 53 00:06:09,656.732 --> 00:06:12,756.732 The state needs to back off and let the church do what the church does. 54 00:06:16,161.732 --> 00:06:39,926.732 When church and state come together, for example, at a prayer service for the funeral of a president or for prayers for national unity at the beginning of a new presidential administration, that is a time in which The church needs to not be partisan, but the church needs to address the ethical and moral issues. 55 00:06:40,946.732 --> 00:06:49,716.732 The church and its religious leaders need to provide instruction about the Christian view of power and what it's for. 56 00:06:50,936.732 --> 00:06:56,176.732 And so I have no problem meeting with the governor of the state of Texas or the state of New Mexico. 57 00:06:56,176.732 --> 00:07:01,686.732 I have no problem meeting with the mayor of any of the cities in my diocese because. 58 00:07:02,266.732 --> 00:07:08,156.732 Part of my role is to bring to those secular leaders the moral witness of my faith. 59 00:07:09,146.732 --> 00:07:15,276.732 And when I do that, I'm often joined by rabbis and imams and people from the ashram. 60 00:07:15,496.732 --> 00:07:25,946.732 I am often joined by people of faith of a variety of different, types, where we are all speaking about the morality that we are calling for in the government. 61 00:07:27,306.732 --> 00:07:28,616.732 That's not inappropriate. 62 00:07:28,636.732 --> 00:07:29,666.732 It's not illegal. 63 00:07:29,896.732 --> 00:07:32,176.732 It's part of what the separation of church and state should be. 64 00:07:32,866.732 --> 00:07:51,676.732 There should be enough distance and difference so that the church can thrive and be able to critique the government in much the same way that the free press needs to be protected in order for the government to hear what the people think, not just what they think the people think. 65 00:07:53,976.732 --> 00:07:58,326.732 So when it comes to separation of church and state, I don't think we should be partisan. 66 00:07:59,446.732 --> 00:08:04,366.732 I do think we should speak to the moral and ethical issues of the day. 67 00:08:05,336.732 --> 00:08:15,886.733 There's a story that's told about Bishop Ambrose, the Bishop of Milan, who in the fourth century became bishop in Italy all those years ago. 68 00:08:16,746.733 --> 00:08:18,126.733 And the story goes like this. 69 00:08:19,141.733 --> 00:08:29,561.733 The bishop was preaching at a sermon, and there was a wealthy nobleman, who was not a member of the church, but was a wealthy nobleman, who came to hear Bishop Ambrose speak. 70 00:08:29,891.733 --> 00:08:39,491.733 And that wealthy nobleman came into the church, went up to the front, and took his seat in one of the places of honor, where all the leaders of the church were gathered. 71 00:08:40,201.733 --> 00:08:41,761.733 His logic was very simple. 72 00:08:42,131.733 --> 00:08:43,851.733 I am a leader of this community. 73 00:08:43,961.733 --> 00:08:45,941.733 I am one of the elite. 74 00:08:46,321.733 --> 00:08:48,651.733 I belong up there with the elite. 75 00:08:48,651.733 --> 00:08:51,281.733 So he walked into the room, into the cathedral. 76 00:08:51,421.733 --> 00:08:52,911.733 He saw the seats of honor. 77 00:08:52,921.733 --> 00:08:54,511.733 He said, that's where I'm supposed to sit. 78 00:08:54,771.733 --> 00:08:57,161.734 And he went up there, Box seat at the super bowl. 79 00:08:58,381.734 --> 00:09:10,751.733 Bishop Ambrose saw that he was there, sitting among the seats of honor in the cathedral, and Bishop Ambrose removed him from his seat in public. 80 00:09:11,311.734 --> 00:09:19,751.734 And as you might imagine, this wealthy, privileged person really felt caught off guard and was completely offended. 81 00:09:20,591.734 --> 00:09:26,21.734 The people around Bishop Ambrose were very concerned as well, because this was a person of influence. 82 00:09:26,581.733 --> 00:09:32,851.734 And they came to Bishop Ambrose and they said, Look, this guy that you just kicked out, he's a big deal. 83 00:09:32,881.734 --> 00:09:51,461.734 And, he's out there saying, I can't believe I have never been talked to in this manner by anyone in my entire life to which Bishop Ambrose said, well, maybe he's never met a Bishop before this week. 84 00:09:51,971.734 --> 00:10:07,571.733 The President of the United States, the most powerful man in the world, met a bishop, maybe for the first time, and encountered the power of the pulpit in a way that obviously he didn't like and was uncomfortable. 85 00:10:09,301.734 --> 00:10:21,166.734 In our Episcopal Church, from the time of the Revolutionary War, We have been part of the conversation about the nature and identity of this country. 86 00:10:21,176.734 --> 00:10:29,676.734 Sometimes very much uncomfortably and sometimes because of our privilege and our historical relationship to the crown in England, et cetera. 87 00:10:30,876.734 --> 00:10:33,866.734 It is the Episcopal church that built the national cathedral. 88 00:10:34,526.734 --> 00:10:39,336.734 It is the National Cathedral where presidents like President Jimmy Carter are buried from. 89 00:10:40,216.734 --> 00:10:44,236.734 It is in the National Cathedral where we gather for prayers for the nation. 90 00:10:44,416.733 --> 00:10:49,606.734 It is the National Cathedral built by the Episcopal Church, run and operated by the Episcopal Church. 91 00:10:49,796.734 --> 00:10:53,56.734 the National Cathedral is a house of prayer for all people. 92 00:10:54,806.734 --> 00:10:59,566.734 So what should you expect when you come into an Episcopal church? Let me just be plain about it. 93 00:10:59,576.734 --> 00:11:03,936.734 When you come into the Episcopal church, you may not always hear what you want to hear. 94 00:11:05,301.734 --> 00:11:12,311.734 But it is my prayer and my commitment as a bishop that when you come into one of our churches, you will hear what you need to hear. 95 00:11:13,301.734 --> 00:11:15,131.734 And sometimes that's uncomfortable. 96 00:11:16,191.734 --> 00:11:22,421.734 We see Jesus in the New Testament often making people uncomfortable who have power and privilege. 97 00:11:22,981.734 --> 00:11:31,461.734 I'm thinking, of course, about the story, for example, of the rich young ruler who came and said, what should I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus says, love your neighbor. 98 00:11:32,671.734 --> 00:11:38,501.733 The rich young person says, well, who's my neighbor? And that's when Jesus tells the story of the good Samaritan. 99 00:11:39,951.734 --> 00:11:47,931.734 The neighbor is the one who shows mercy to the person who is beaten up, left for dead, and robbed at the side of the road. 100 00:11:47,931.734 --> 00:11:50,661.734 It doesn't matter if you're a Samaritan or a priest or a lawyer. 101 00:11:51,101.734 --> 00:11:54,1.734 Who is the neighbor? The person who shows mercy. 102 00:11:55,311.733 --> 00:12:01,991.734 You see, the term mercy in our Christian tradition is more than just a justice word. 103 00:12:02,476.734 --> 00:12:05,946.734 You might think about mercy and say, well, mercy is letting someone off the hook. 104 00:12:05,956.734 --> 00:12:08,816.734 Mercy is withdrawing the punishment. 105 00:12:09,46.734 --> 00:12:11,166.734 Well, that's one way to talk about mercy. 106 00:12:11,986.733 --> 00:12:17,286.734 But in the Christian tradition, mercy is talked about in a much broader sense. 107 00:12:17,366.734 --> 00:12:32,581.734 In fact, if you're Roman Catholic, you know that there are seven corporal works of mercy, and they include things like, mercy means feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving shelter to the traveler who is moving through. 108 00:12:33,221.734 --> 00:12:39,491.734 It is about treating everybody with love and dignity because God treats us. 109 00:12:39,966.734 --> 00:12:41,376.734 with love and dignity. 110 00:12:42,416.734 --> 00:12:47,626.734 Mercy is about forgiving others as we have been forgiven by God and Jesus Christ. 111 00:12:48,636.734 --> 00:12:59,206.734 Mercy in the Christian tradition is about living in a different world, where violence and retributive justice are not the rules of the game. 112 00:13:00,956.734 --> 00:13:09,776.734 Mercy is about imagining what would it be like if every single one of us treated every single other one with compassion and mercy. 113 00:13:10,856.734 --> 00:13:13,526.734 Now sometimes love has to be tough love. 114 00:13:13,936.734 --> 00:13:19,536.734 Sometimes I gotta grab you and pull you out of the street cause a bus is about to run you down and you didn't see it coming. 115 00:13:20,156.734 --> 00:13:26,386.734 Sometimes I have to, out of love, tell you how your behavior is impacting me and my experience. 116 00:13:27,141.734 --> 00:13:32,21.734 Sometimes an act of love is saying, Hey, you've got seven sandwiches and they're hungry. 117 00:13:32,21.734 --> 00:13:39,531.734 How about you share some sandwiches? As Jesus said, Hey, if you got two coats and someone has zero share, that's what mercy is about. 118 00:13:41,191.734 --> 00:13:45,271.734 The Christian teaching, following Jesus Christ, following the way of Jesus Christ. 119 00:13:45,791.734 --> 00:13:47,791.734 My friends, this should not be news. 120 00:13:48,501.734 --> 00:13:54,41.734 Following in the way of Jesus Christ means having mercy to others the way God has mercy to us. 121 00:13:56,341.734 --> 00:14:07,331.734 And so if you've never heard a bishop say that kind of thing, if you've never heard a bishop say that kind of thing to a person in power, maybe you were surprised. 122 00:14:07,481.733 --> 00:14:11,501.734 Maybe the president was surprised because maybe he'd never really talked to a bishop before. 123 00:14:12,841.734 --> 00:14:21,931.734 But my friends, if you're coming into an Episcopal church We come here not to just hear what we want to hear and have our existing ideas. 124 00:14:22,476.734 --> 00:14:53,156.833 Just underline don't choose the Episcopal Church because we believe in everything that you believe in choose the Episcopal Church because in this place we will provide a safe sanctuary where you can confess your sins and learn to be a better human being than you are already come to the Episcopal Church because in this church Republicans and Democrats come together to learn from each other and to grow together in unity doing the work of God together. 125 00:14:53,416.833 --> 00:14:57,66.833 Come to the Episcopal Church because in this church everybody's welcome. 126 00:14:57,96.833 --> 00:14:58,736.833 Even you, even me. 127 00:14:59,176.832 --> 00:15:01,176.833 You can bring your differences of opinion. 128 00:15:01,626.832 --> 00:15:03,636.833 You can be gay or straight or trans. 129 00:15:04,151.833 --> 00:15:06,741.833 You are welcome because God made you and God loves you. 130 00:15:08,471.833 --> 00:15:20,241.833 Come to the Episcopal Church because you want to be part of a beloved community that exists in multi cultures, speaking many languages, bringing in different styles of dress. 131 00:15:20,551.833 --> 00:15:28,211.833 Come to the Episcopal Church because here we are trying to create a beloved community where everyone is treated with honor and mercy and respect. 132 00:15:28,431.833 --> 00:15:32,791.833 Why? Not because we're afraid God's going to punish us if we don't. 133 00:15:33,951.833 --> 00:15:38,61.833 But because we want to live in a beloved community where everyone has a place. 134 00:15:40,696.833 --> 00:16:00,566.832 That's what I want you to expect when you come to an Episcopal Church in the Diocese of the Rio Grande and in that spirit I now want to say to you some things you've been hearing me say over and over again In the Diocese of the Rio Grande which encompasses 40 percent of the US Mexico border, we are calling for sane immigration policies. 135 00:16:00,756.832 --> 00:16:12,101.833 Why? Out of love, compassion and mercy for everyone who is the stranger because of work of Corporal Mercy is to shelter those who are traveling through. 136 00:16:12,241.833 --> 00:16:14,461.832 And that's what we do in the Diocese of the Rio Grande. 137 00:16:14,581.833 --> 00:16:22,741.833 We are not breaking the law and we are not sheltering fugitives What we are doing is treating everyone with dignity and respect. 138 00:16:23,711.834 --> 00:16:26,921.834 And we collaborate with the Border Patrol to do so. 139 00:16:26,921.834 --> 00:16:30,141.833 We help provide services that the federal government doesn't provide. 140 00:16:31,191.834 --> 00:16:33,821.834 We do not ask for your papers before we feed you. 141 00:16:35,91.834 --> 00:16:39,481.834 We do not make you say our prayers before we give you clothes and shoes. 142 00:16:40,41.834 --> 00:16:44,221.834 We do not judge you before we offer you religious services or welcome you to prayer. 143 00:16:45,71.834 --> 00:16:45,461.834 No. 144 00:16:46,281.834 --> 00:16:51,571.834 In the Episcopal Church, following the way of Jesus Christ, we welcome you first. 145 00:16:52,561.834 --> 00:16:53,911.834 We recognize your humanity. 146 00:16:55,101.834 --> 00:16:56,71.834 We offer you mercy. 147 00:16:57,791.834 --> 00:17:10,251.834 In the Episcopal Church, if you are gay, lesbian, or trans, or straight, If you're married or single or dating, if your heart's been broken, or if you're madly in love, guess what? You're welcome in the Episcopal Church. 148 00:17:10,421.834 --> 00:17:14,591.834 We love you, and you could be, if God calls you, you could be ordained. 149 00:17:14,691.834 --> 00:17:17,61.833 You could be a bishop, priest, or a deacon. 150 00:17:17,461.834 --> 00:17:19,371.833 In our church, you could be married. 151 00:17:20,331.834 --> 00:17:27,151.834 No matter what your background is, we recognize the love that God already has for you. 152 00:17:28,151.834 --> 00:17:32,51.834 And we want you to be a part of our community because we want to grow and learn together. 153 00:17:33,321.834 --> 00:17:37,771.834 When you come to an Episcopal church, if you're Republican, if you're Democrat, I want you in here. 154 00:17:37,801.834 --> 00:17:43,381.834 I want to hear your perspectives and I want you to share your perspectives with other people in the church. 155 00:17:44,111.833 --> 00:17:55,1.834 So if this week you were overjoyed because of what Bishop Mary Ann Budde said, I want you to come into the Episcopal church prepared to respectfully and honorably. 156 00:17:55,586.834 --> 00:18:11,886.834 Explain why to share how you maybe have felt persecuted and afraid and frightened and you felt that the words of Bishop Marianne made you feel safe and seen and love. 157 00:18:13,536.834 --> 00:18:21,506.834 And if you were outraged by what Bishop Marianne Budde said, I want you to come to the Episcopal Church in the Diocese of the Rio Grande and come with respect. 158 00:18:21,876.834 --> 00:18:25,336.834 Be prepared to say, Hey, here's why I didn't like that. 159 00:18:26,296.834 --> 00:18:28,876.834 And I want to hear and learn from why you did like it. 160 00:18:29,431.834 --> 00:18:42,31.834 And I want to share honestly with you This Episcopal Church, we're about, in this diocese, about half Republican, half Democrat, but we are all seeking the salvific love of Jesus Christ. 161 00:18:42,71.833 --> 00:18:42,481.834 All of us. 162 00:18:43,656.834 --> 00:18:51,736.834 So, I want you to come to the Episcopal Church, not just looking for a church that's going to make it easy for you to keep thinking what you already think. 163 00:18:52,996.834 --> 00:19:01,636.834 I want you to come to the Episcopal Church because you want to be part of a beloved, blessed community where everybody's voice is listened to with respect. 164 00:19:02,666.833 --> 00:19:10,186.833 Where we can disagree respectfully without being disagreeable, without calling people names, without getting mean and nasty. 165 00:19:11,201.834 --> 00:19:20,441.834 Where we can, as a people of God, be gathered around the altar because at the Eucharist, Jesus Christ makes us one body. 166 00:19:21,351.833 --> 00:19:25,231.833 Because Jesus Christ welcomes us all to the altar. 167 00:19:27,61.834 --> 00:19:29,831.834 My friends, I'm grateful to be a part of the Episcopal Church. 168 00:19:30,941.833 --> 00:19:32,931.833 And I want you to be a part of the Episcopal Church. 169 00:19:33,921.834 --> 00:19:35,681.834 I just want to be clear about the expectations. 170 00:19:36,811.834 --> 00:19:38,691.834 Come and be part of this blessed community. 171 00:19:38,691.834 --> 00:19:42,581.834 Bring your whole self as you are because God loves you. 172 00:19:43,381.834 --> 00:19:50,111.834 And we, for our part in this church, are going to help all of us grow and help us grow together. 173 00:19:51,141.834 --> 00:19:53,321.734 God bless you, Diocese of Rio Grande. 174 00:19:53,601.834 --> 00:19:54,121.834 We'll see you soon.
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