January 31, 2025 • 10 mins
What Christian Leadership Looks Like.... with Bishop Michael Hunn Join Michael Hunn, the Episcopal Bishop of the Diocese of Rio Grande, as he delves into the essence of Christian leadership. He emphasizes the importance of following the teachings of Jesus, particularly the Golden Rule, and embodying these principles in everyday actions. Through practical examples and reflections, Bishop Hunn highlights how Christian leaders should serve others, exhibit kindness and mercy, and foster community. He also touches on the challenges within our political system and the potential for the Christian faith to bring about transformative listening and compassion. Stay tuned for the next video, where Bishop Hunn will discuss the topic of forgiveness in the Christian tradition.
00:00 Introduction and Greetings
00:20 Foundations of Christian Leadership
01:36 The Golden Rule in Practice
02:09 Practical Examples of Kindness
04:33 Contrasting Leadership Styles
06:19 The Struggle Within
07:50 Hope for Compassionate Dialogue
10:41 Conclusion and Next Steps
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, my friends.
I'm Michael Hunn, the Episcopal Bishop of the Diocese of Rio Grande, which encompasses the entire state of New Mexico and the far west part of Texas.
I want to say hello to those of you who have discovered this conversation over the last week or so.
Gosh, there's a few more of us having the conversation.
And so today, I thought I wanted to follow up having a conversation about the nature of Christian And I want to distinguish that there are lots of different kinds of leadership in the world.
(00:31):
I'm not an expert on all of them.
I'm not a politician.
.999What I am is a bishop. 9 00:00:36,489.999 --> 00:00:37,899.999 This is my wheelhouse.
I can talk about Christian leadership because that is what I have given my life to.
Not just Christian leadership, but Christian discipleship, following Jesus Christ as, uh, and his teachings, putting them into practice in my life and trying to share the good news of what that all means.
(00:59):
The foundational bedrock of Christian leadership, those who follow the way of Jesus Christ, is to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. 13 00:01:08,149.999 --> 00:01:20,480 And first among those teachings is often summed up in what we call the Golden Rule, which is, you've, I know you've heard it, do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
(01:21):
This principle, love your neighbor as you love yourself.
This idea that we should treat others the way we would want to be treated.
is pretty foundational to the basis of the Christian life and to what Christian leaders should be.
.999So the first piece is Christian leaders follow the teachings of Jesus.
(01:42):
The second principle is that Christian leaders themselves embody what they are teaching.
And so, uh, you know, you see it all through the Pauline epistles.
You see Jesus exhorting the disciples to walk the talk.
And so Christian leaders follow the teachings of Jesus, number one. 22 00:02:04,14.999 --> 00:02:07,704.999 Number two, they try to embody that in their own lives.
(02:09):
And so I just want to give a practical example about one good test to see if we are loving our neighbor as ourselves.
One good way to see if I am treating others in a way that I would like to be treated. 25 00:02:22,679.999 --> 00:02:23,690 It's a simple test.
You can do it on anything you're about to do. 27 00:02:26,9.999 --> 00:02:35,540 The idea is this, if everyone did what you're about to do, would you like to live in that world? So I'll give you a practical example.
(02:35):
Let's say you're at somebody's house for dinner.
We're sitting around the table together.
Maybe it's 10 of us.
Maybe it's three of us, but sitting around that dinner table, whenever we talked about anybody, all of the people around that table said, Hey, Be merciful to that person.
(02:55):
Be kind to them.
.9995If their haircut came up, or if their, um, shoes, or if they weren't wearing the right kind of clothes, or that you disagreed with their ideas, if everyone around that table encountering that said, you know what, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. 34 00:03:11,799.9995 --> 00:03:14,940 Let's treat them with some kindness and, and humility.
Let's treat them with mercy.
(03:17):
Would you want to be at that dinner table? Would you stay in that house? I would.
That's the kind of place I'd like to be because I'm aware of my own shortcomings, my own blind spots.
I'm aware that there are times when I need mercy and I would like to be more of a person who extends mercy to others. 39 00:03:39,159.999 --> 00:03:41,980.001 Now let's be at somebody else's house for dinner. 40 00:03:42,30.001 --> 00:03:47,250.001 And at this house, maybe there's 10 of us, maybe there's three of us, but we are sitting around the dinner table. 41 00:03:47,250.001 --> 00:03:51,860 And in this house, whenever somebody's haircut came up or their kind of clothes. 42 00:03:52,370.001 --> 00:03:54,160.001 Everyone around that table. 43 00:03:54,595.001 --> 00:04:01,435.001 competed to find out what's the most cutting kind of nasty thing they could say about that individual. 44 00:04:01,615.001 --> 00:04:04,525.001 And everybody kind of piled on to that. 45 00:04:05,425.001 --> 00:04:09,275 Would you like to stay at that dinner? I wouldn't. 46 00:04:10,305.001 --> 00:04:17,485.001 I really would not like to stay at that dinner table or in that house, partly because my shoes are not always right. 47 00:04:17,525.001 --> 00:04:18,995.001 My haircut's not that great. 48 00:04:19,400.001 --> 00:04:24,470.001 and there are worse things, right? And I would not like to be attacked myself. 49 00:04:25,170.001 --> 00:04:32,210 I'd, I'd find a way to excuse myself because I wouldn't want to be a part of that kind of a crowd. 50 00:04:33,850.001 --> 00:04:52,530.001 So my friends, if we're looking at Christian leadership and we're looking for what does it mean to be a Christian leader, I, as a Bishop of the Episcopal Church, am looking for somebody who number one, practices following the teachings of Jesus themselves. 51 00:04:53,5.001 --> 00:04:55,155.001 By being kind to others. 52 00:04:55,175.001 --> 00:05:00,555.001 One of Jesus famous things is, I came not to be served, but to serve others. 53 00:05:00,735.001 --> 00:05:10,235 So, in a Christian leader, I'm looking for a servant's heart, someone who is caring for others, who is in leadership to care for others, not to be in it for themselves. 54 00:05:11,175.001 --> 00:05:19,175.001 I'm looking for somebody who walks the talk, which is to say that they are behaving towards others as they would like to be treated themselves. 55 00:05:21,165.001 --> 00:05:22,885.001 That's what Christian leadership is about. 56 00:05:23,620.001 --> 00:05:30,50.001 Now, I know that there's lots of different kinds of leadership out there, and I'm not saying anything about this political party or that political party. 57 00:05:30,300.001 --> 00:05:31,310.001 I'm not a politician. 58 00:05:32,290.001 --> 00:05:33,250.001 I'm a Christian leader. 59 00:05:33,280.001 --> 00:05:35,250.001 I'm a bishop of the Episcopal Church. 60 00:05:36,170.001 --> 00:05:47,650.001 My lane, my zone, is to talk to you honestly and faithfully about what the teachings of Jesus invite us to do, and how the teachings of Jesus invite us to act.
(05:48):
.001So, I understand that there's lots of different kinds of leadership out there, and you may be a fan of this political leadership style or that political leadership style. 62 00:05:58,270.001 --> 00:05:58,820.001 That's fine. 63 00:05:59,980.001 --> 00:06:01,860.001 But if it's not Christian, don't call it Christian. 64 00:06:03,165.001 --> 00:06:07,475.001 If it's about hatred and um, judging people, don't call it Christian. 65 00:06:08,715.001 --> 00:06:18,115.001 I'm looking for Christian leadership that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ who said that we should love our neighbor and we should even love our enemies. 66 00:06:19,560.001 --> 00:06:33,640 Now, here's another critical point about Christian leadership, and it is that inside each of us, there is this tendency, right? Inside of me, part of me does kind of want to say the most cutting thing and pile on.
(06:34):
.001Part of me does have that little nastiness in me, right? And part of me knows that the better way to go is kindness and mercy. 68 00:06:44,660.001 --> 00:06:47,440.001 So the Christian path is not just for Christian leaders. 69 00:06:47,440.001 --> 00:06:51,270.001 It's not just an accountable standard we try to hold them to. 70 00:06:52,460.001 --> 00:06:57,310.001 It is rather, uh, a struggling that happens in each one of our own hearts. 71 00:06:58,660.001 --> 00:07:01,800.001 And it's a struggling which happens in each of our own hearts every day. 72 00:07:02,900.001 --> 00:07:12,640.001 Today, we will all have multiple opportunities to be harsh, to be critical, to kind of goad other people or call them names.
(07:13):
.0005We can choose to walk that pathway. 74 00:07:15,290.0005 --> 00:07:20,970.001 And the more we do that, the more we invite a kind of hatred and meanness into our hearts. 75 00:07:21,390.001 --> 00:07:23,610.001 And it's like the Grinch that stole Christmas. 76 00:07:23,610.001 --> 00:07:25,630.001 Your heart just gets smaller and smaller. 77 00:07:26,195.001 --> 00:07:31,445.001 As we fill our time and our hearts, kind of criticism of others. 78 00:07:32,875.001 --> 00:07:42,695.001 If, on the other hand, we follow the teachings of Jesus and we treat others the way we would like to be treated, I would not like to be criticized and named called myself, so I'm not going to do that to you. 79 00:07:43,25.001 --> 00:07:50,255 The more we do that, then our heart does swell and grow and we find that there is common ground.
(07:50):
.001This is my hope for our country and for our Episcopal Church, that people who are on different sides of the political spectrum might actually listen to one another, develop some kind of common ground. 81 00:08:02,585.001 --> 00:08:09,985.001 and develop some kind of compassion and mutual understanding so that we could work together to help solve the problems of the world. 82 00:08:10,825.001 --> 00:08:14,735.001 That's me as a Christian leader speaking about my hope for the world.
(08:15):
.001I'm not a politician. 84 00:08:16,595.001 --> 00:08:26,255.001 I'm not running for office, but I am saying I hope that the Christian faith and this love your neighbor thing applies beyond the doors of the church. 85 00:08:27,0.001 --> 00:08:37,940.001 And I hope and I know that it can be transformative if we are able to listen to one another with compassion, to give each other the benefit of the doubt, to actually sit down and listen to each other. 86 00:08:38,360.001 --> 00:08:41,300 But the rules around the table need to be not. 87 00:08:41,685.001 --> 00:08:44,135.001 We're going to find the biggest rock to throw at each other. 88 00:08:44,905.001 --> 00:08:57,715.001 It needs to be instead, we're going to listen with mercy, seeking common ground, trying to find a way for us to stand together instead of finding a way to rip each other apart. 89 00:08:57,785.001 --> 00:09:06,815 And I think part of what's happening now in this moment in our nation is that our political system is so focused on competition and winning.
(09:07):
.001Our political system is so focused on, I'm going to win at all costs. 91 00:09:11,495.001 --> 00:09:12,155.001 And we know that. 92 00:09:12,480.001 --> 00:09:15,850.001 Brutality is, is a, you know, acceptable stuff in politics. 93 00:09:15,850.001 --> 00:09:19,200.001 That's how you win, right? You dominate and control the other person. 94 00:09:20,990.001 --> 00:09:26,530.001 So that whole idea is counter to what we're trying to do in the church. 95 00:09:26,570.001 --> 00:09:31,400 What we're trying to do, particularly in the Episcopal Church, is actually listen to one another. 96 00:09:31,675.001 --> 00:09:53,695.001 Not call each other names, not throw rocks, but to find a place where we can sit together at a table, being made one, where our differences are actually part of the feature, not the bug in the system, where our differences are to be appreciated and understood, not to be minimized or whitewashed over. 97 00:09:53,695.101 --> 00:09:58,65.001 I want to be a part of a church, not where everybody thinks exactly what I think. 98 00:09:58,605.001 --> 00:10:11,65.001 I want to be a part of a church where I am learning and growing because you are teaching me and you are showing me, even holding the mirror up to my own behavior in a way that I can't quite see all the time. 99 00:10:11,615.001 --> 00:10:16,535.001 I just ask that you do that with compassion and mercy because I'm aware that I fall short. 100 00:10:17,425.001 --> 00:10:26,065 So when it comes to Christian leaders, what we're looking for is people who are leading in such a way that they are serving others. 101 00:10:27,90.001 --> 00:10:30,200.001 They are leading in such a way that they are walking the talk. 102 00:10:30,970.001 --> 00:10:39,990.001 They're leading in such a way that they are nurturing beloved community, trying to help bring us together instead of trying to find ways to rip us apart. 103 00:10:41,240.001 --> 00:10:46,0.002 You know, in this conversation, I've had some people talk a lot about forgiveness. 104 00:10:46,540.001 --> 00:10:52,360.001 And so in the next video, I'd like to talk a little bit about forgiveness and what that really means in the Christian tradition. 105 00:10:52,750.001 --> 00:10:53,590.001 I hope you'll stick around.
Hello, my friends.
I'm Michael Hunn, the Episcopal Bishop of the Diocese of Rio Grande, which encompasses the entire state of New Mexico and the far west part of Texas.
I want to say hello to those of you who have discovered this conversation over the last week or so.
Gosh, there's a few more of us having the conversation.
And so today, I thought I wanted to follow up having a conversation about the nature of Christian And I want to distinguish that there are lots of different kinds of leadership in the world.
(00:31):
I'm not an expert on all of them.
I'm not a politician.
.999What I am is a bishop. 9 00:00:36,489.999 --> 00:00:37,899.999 This is my wheelhouse.
I can talk about Christian leadership because that is what I have given my life to.
Not just Christian leadership, but Christian discipleship, following Jesus Christ as, uh, and his teachings, putting them into practice in my life and trying to share the good news of what that all means.
(00:59):
The foundational bedrock of Christian leadership, those who follow the way of Jesus Christ, is to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. 13 00:01:08,149.999 --> 00:01:20,480 And first among those teachings is often summed up in what we call the Golden Rule, which is, you've, I know you've heard it, do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
(01:21):
This principle, love your neighbor as you love yourself.
This idea that we should treat others the way we would want to be treated.
is pretty foundational to the basis of the Christian life and to what Christian leaders should be.
.999So the first piece is Christian leaders follow the teachings of Jesus.
(01:42):
The second principle is that Christian leaders themselves embody what they are teaching.
And so, uh, you know, you see it all through the Pauline epistles.
You see Jesus exhorting the disciples to walk the talk.
And so Christian leaders follow the teachings of Jesus, number one. 22 00:02:04,14.999 --> 00:02:07,704.999 Number two, they try to embody that in their own lives.
(02:09):
And so I just want to give a practical example about one good test to see if we are loving our neighbor as ourselves.
One good way to see if I am treating others in a way that I would like to be treated. 25 00:02:22,679.999 --> 00:02:23,690 It's a simple test.
You can do it on anything you're about to do. 27 00:02:26,9.999 --> 00:02:35,540 The idea is this, if everyone did what you're about to do, would you like to live in that world? So I'll give you a practical example.
(02:35):
Let's say you're at somebody's house for dinner.
We're sitting around the table together.
Maybe it's 10 of us.
Maybe it's three of us, but sitting around that dinner table, whenever we talked about anybody, all of the people around that table said, Hey, Be merciful to that person.
(02:55):
Be kind to them.
.9995If their haircut came up, or if their, um, shoes, or if they weren't wearing the right kind of clothes, or that you disagreed with their ideas, if everyone around that table encountering that said, you know what, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. 34 00:03:11,799.9995 --> 00:03:14,940 Let's treat them with some kindness and, and humility.
Let's treat them with mercy.
(03:17):
Would you want to be at that dinner table? Would you stay in that house? I would.
That's the kind of place I'd like to be because I'm aware of my own shortcomings, my own blind spots.
I'm aware that there are times when I need mercy and I would like to be more of a person who extends mercy to others. 39 00:03:39,159.999 --> 00:03:41,980.001 Now let's be at somebody else's house for dinner. 40 00:03:42,30.001 --> 00:03:47,250.001 And at this house, maybe there's 10 of us, maybe there's three of us, but we are sitting around the dinner table. 41 00:03:47,250.001 --> 00:03:51,860 And in this house, whenever somebody's haircut came up or their kind of clothes. 42 00:03:52,370.001 --> 00:03:54,160.001 Everyone around that table. 43 00:03:54,595.001 --> 00:04:01,435.001 competed to find out what's the most cutting kind of nasty thing they could say about that individual. 44 00:04:01,615.001 --> 00:04:04,525.001 And everybody kind of piled on to that. 45 00:04:05,425.001 --> 00:04:09,275 Would you like to stay at that dinner? I wouldn't. 46 00:04:10,305.001 --> 00:04:17,485.001 I really would not like to stay at that dinner table or in that house, partly because my shoes are not always right. 47 00:04:17,525.001 --> 00:04:18,995.001 My haircut's not that great. 48 00:04:19,400.001 --> 00:04:24,470.001 and there are worse things, right? And I would not like to be attacked myself. 49 00:04:25,170.001 --> 00:04:32,210 I'd, I'd find a way to excuse myself because I wouldn't want to be a part of that kind of a crowd. 50 00:04:33,850.001 --> 00:04:52,530.001 So my friends, if we're looking at Christian leadership and we're looking for what does it mean to be a Christian leader, I, as a Bishop of the Episcopal Church, am looking for somebody who number one, practices following the teachings of Jesus themselves. 51 00:04:53,5.001 --> 00:04:55,155.001 By being kind to others. 52 00:04:55,175.001 --> 00:05:00,555.001 One of Jesus famous things is, I came not to be served, but to serve others. 53 00:05:00,735.001 --> 00:05:10,235 So, in a Christian leader, I'm looking for a servant's heart, someone who is caring for others, who is in leadership to care for others, not to be in it for themselves. 54 00:05:11,175.001 --> 00:05:19,175.001 I'm looking for somebody who walks the talk, which is to say that they are behaving towards others as they would like to be treated themselves. 55 00:05:21,165.001 --> 00:05:22,885.001 That's what Christian leadership is about. 56 00:05:23,620.001 --> 00:05:30,50.001 Now, I know that there's lots of different kinds of leadership out there, and I'm not saying anything about this political party or that political party. 57 00:05:30,300.001 --> 00:05:31,310.001 I'm not a politician. 58 00:05:32,290.001 --> 00:05:33,250.001 I'm a Christian leader. 59 00:05:33,280.001 --> 00:05:35,250.001 I'm a bishop of the Episcopal Church. 60 00:05:36,170.001 --> 00:05:47,650.001 My lane, my zone, is to talk to you honestly and faithfully about what the teachings of Jesus invite us to do, and how the teachings of Jesus invite us to act.
(05:48):
.001So, I understand that there's lots of different kinds of leadership out there, and you may be a fan of this political leadership style or that political leadership style. 62 00:05:58,270.001 --> 00:05:58,820.001 That's fine. 63 00:05:59,980.001 --> 00:06:01,860.001 But if it's not Christian, don't call it Christian. 64 00:06:03,165.001 --> 00:06:07,475.001 If it's about hatred and um, judging people, don't call it Christian. 65 00:06:08,715.001 --> 00:06:18,115.001 I'm looking for Christian leadership that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ who said that we should love our neighbor and we should even love our enemies. 66 00:06:19,560.001 --> 00:06:33,640 Now, here's another critical point about Christian leadership, and it is that inside each of us, there is this tendency, right? Inside of me, part of me does kind of want to say the most cutting thing and pile on.
(06:34):
.001Part of me does have that little nastiness in me, right? And part of me knows that the better way to go is kindness and mercy. 68 00:06:44,660.001 --> 00:06:47,440.001 So the Christian path is not just for Christian leaders. 69 00:06:47,440.001 --> 00:06:51,270.001 It's not just an accountable standard we try to hold them to. 70 00:06:52,460.001 --> 00:06:57,310.001 It is rather, uh, a struggling that happens in each one of our own hearts. 71 00:06:58,660.001 --> 00:07:01,800.001 And it's a struggling which happens in each of our own hearts every day. 72 00:07:02,900.001 --> 00:07:12,640.001 Today, we will all have multiple opportunities to be harsh, to be critical, to kind of goad other people or call them names.
(07:13):
.0005We can choose to walk that pathway. 74 00:07:15,290.0005 --> 00:07:20,970.001 And the more we do that, the more we invite a kind of hatred and meanness into our hearts. 75 00:07:21,390.001 --> 00:07:23,610.001 And it's like the Grinch that stole Christmas. 76 00:07:23,610.001 --> 00:07:25,630.001 Your heart just gets smaller and smaller. 77 00:07:26,195.001 --> 00:07:31,445.001 As we fill our time and our hearts, kind of criticism of others. 78 00:07:32,875.001 --> 00:07:42,695.001 If, on the other hand, we follow the teachings of Jesus and we treat others the way we would like to be treated, I would not like to be criticized and named called myself, so I'm not going to do that to you. 79 00:07:43,25.001 --> 00:07:50,255 The more we do that, then our heart does swell and grow and we find that there is common ground.
(07:50):
.001This is my hope for our country and for our Episcopal Church, that people who are on different sides of the political spectrum might actually listen to one another, develop some kind of common ground. 81 00:08:02,585.001 --> 00:08:09,985.001 and develop some kind of compassion and mutual understanding so that we could work together to help solve the problems of the world. 82 00:08:10,825.001 --> 00:08:14,735.001 That's me as a Christian leader speaking about my hope for the world.
(08:15):
.001I'm not a politician. 84 00:08:16,595.001 --> 00:08:26,255.001 I'm not running for office, but I am saying I hope that the Christian faith and this love your neighbor thing applies beyond the doors of the church. 85 00:08:27,0.001 --> 00:08:37,940.001 And I hope and I know that it can be transformative if we are able to listen to one another with compassion, to give each other the benefit of the doubt, to actually sit down and listen to each other. 86 00:08:38,360.001 --> 00:08:41,300 But the rules around the table need to be not. 87 00:08:41,685.001 --> 00:08:44,135.001 We're going to find the biggest rock to throw at each other. 88 00:08:44,905.001 --> 00:08:57,715.001 It needs to be instead, we're going to listen with mercy, seeking common ground, trying to find a way for us to stand together instead of finding a way to rip each other apart. 89 00:08:57,785.001 --> 00:09:06,815 And I think part of what's happening now in this moment in our nation is that our political system is so focused on competition and winning.
(09:07):
.001Our political system is so focused on, I'm going to win at all costs. 91 00:09:11,495.001 --> 00:09:12,155.001 And we know that. 92 00:09:12,480.001 --> 00:09:15,850.001 Brutality is, is a, you know, acceptable stuff in politics. 93 00:09:15,850.001 --> 00:09:19,200.001 That's how you win, right? You dominate and control the other person. 94 00:09:20,990.001 --> 00:09:26,530.001 So that whole idea is counter to what we're trying to do in the church. 95 00:09:26,570.001 --> 00:09:31,400 What we're trying to do, particularly in the Episcopal Church, is actually listen to one another. 96 00:09:31,675.001 --> 00:09:53,695.001 Not call each other names, not throw rocks, but to find a place where we can sit together at a table, being made one, where our differences are actually part of the feature, not the bug in the system, where our differences are to be appreciated and understood, not to be minimized or whitewashed over. 97 00:09:53,695.101 --> 00:09:58,65.001 I want to be a part of a church, not where everybody thinks exactly what I think. 98 00:09:58,605.001 --> 00:10:11,65.001 I want to be a part of a church where I am learning and growing because you are teaching me and you are showing me, even holding the mirror up to my own behavior in a way that I can't quite see all the time. 99 00:10:11,615.001 --> 00:10:16,535.001 I just ask that you do that with compassion and mercy because I'm aware that I fall short. 100 00:10:17,425.001 --> 00:10:26,065 So when it comes to Christian leaders, what we're looking for is people who are leading in such a way that they are serving others. 101 00:10:27,90.001 --> 00:10:30,200.001 They are leading in such a way that they are walking the talk. 102 00:10:30,970.001 --> 00:10:39,990.001 They're leading in such a way that they are nurturing beloved community, trying to help bring us together instead of trying to find ways to rip us apart. 103 00:10:41,240.001 --> 00:10:46,0.002 You know, in this conversation, I've had some people talk a lot about forgiveness. 104 00:10:46,540.001 --> 00:10:52,360.001 And so in the next video, I'd like to talk a little bit about forgiveness and what that really means in the Christian tradition. 105 00:10:52,750.001 --> 00:10:53,590.001 I hope you'll stick around.
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