Episode 46: Remembering 'The Exorcist' and 'The French Connection' Filmmaker William Friedkin, RIP

Last week lovers of intense cinema were saddened by the passing of director William Friedkin, who died on August 7 at the age of 87.

Friedkin was a true force of nature, an uncompromising director known primarily for two of the greatest films of the 1970's (and of all time): hardboiled crime drama 'The French Connection' (starring Gene Hackman) and 'The Exorcist', one of the most iconic and terrifying films ever made (and that celebrates its 50th anniversary this year).

While his career waned in ensuing decades, he remained a fascinating filmmaker, and on today's podcast, Jack Sommersby and I cover it all, from the two award winning films that gave him his notoriety, along with some reviled flops ( 'Cruising' and 'Jade) and other films that became cult classics despite failing at the box office ('To Live and Die In L.A.', 'Sorcerer') along with some 21st century films like 'Bug' and 'Killer Joe' that garnered him a new audience.

So take a listen as we do a deep dive into a singular filmmaker's body of work, and why his like will never come again.

Episode Transcript

(00:14):
Hey. Folks, this is Michael Terrace.
It Smells Like a Sadness podcastwelcome for joining us once
again. While we normally cover the
musical side of pop culture, we also like to delve into film in
our Smells Like Cinematic Sadness podcast.
And this week I thought it was appropriate to do an episode
dedicated to the late film director William Freakin, who

(00:37):
passed away earlier this week. He is.
A very iconic filmmaker from mostly known from the 1970s, and
we're going to discuss his work.I'm here with film critic Jack
Summersby, who as works for the website Screen Sensibility and
as a former critic for ecritic.com.

(00:57):
Jack, how are you doing today? Oh, OK, we're both here in Texas
broiling and the broiling and the heat, but we're texting so
we can take it. That's right.
And Jack and I are. Old friends.
We are college friends. We did some media communication
stuff back in the day at Texas Wesleyan College and at
University of North Texas. So we have our roots in pop

(01:20):
culture and we're both big freaking fans.
And we are talking about this a while ago, but I realized I had
the wrong microphone setup. So let's recap when we talk
about William freaking, what's the first thing that comes to
mind to you? What what do you what's like
your your strongest I think cinematic footprint that that he
left for you. No definitely like you know I
said The French Connection. It's so I mean I mean very few

(01:44):
Best Picture Oscar winners I agree with.
I mean the very rarely do I agree but The French Connection
is one of the rare ones I grew with and these days there's no
way a picture like that would win Best Picture.
The Academy Is just too stuffy to you know to even nominate a
film like that. I think the last time an action

(02:06):
movie crime action movie got nominated was The Fugitive back
in 1993. Was it that or was it?
I think this is the I Can't TalkThe Departed was that nominated
for. I think that I wouldn't call The
Departed an action movie. I mean, it was a mob movie, but
I wouldn't call it action. I'm talking about, you know,
action set pieces. Yeah, Departed was mostly a mob

(02:28):
movie. That's true, yeah.
So definitely for like a thriller thing.
And yeah, he just, he he just you think of 70s and you think
of grit, gritty 70s films. And that's what I think of when
I think of freaking. I remember my dad would always
try to turn me on to certain films that that he liked growing

(02:49):
up and and he's always like The French Connection.
That's the French I I heard thatso many times that one day, way
before cable, when we had to watch.
You know, be like 3 channels plus PBS to watch stuff.
It was on like the the ABC Afternoon movie or something
like that. And so we watched it together.
And when I first saw it, I kind of kind of went over my head
because I think I was only like,I don't know, eight or nine

(03:11):
years old. Oh yeah, yeah, When it's too
young to absorb at all. When I when I first saw it.
So I typically want to appreciate it, but then I really
grew to love it. I mean Gene Hackman, possibly
his best performance, at least one of his best performances.
And it had the insane car chase always gets talked about where
he's chasing on a you know chasing a subway train.

(03:35):
And what what I and always stuckwith me was watching a special
feature on the DVD about the film where he or freaking talked
about how he shot so many of hisaction scenes were were just
shot on the fly like he didn't get permits for the city.
He didn't get like the proper you know Prakash to take.
He would just get a stuntman in a car.

(03:56):
Drive 60 miles an hour on like, you know like a residential St.
and is barely dodging pedestrians.
It was, it was insanity. I mean he could have killed
somebody or seriously hurt somebody.
He could have killed himself. But he was so selfpossessed and
so, so a singleminded that that's just the only thing he
could think of was the next shot.

(04:17):
And he said today, of course I'dbe out of my mind and and it
would never be allowed to happenand and you know you have to.
You know, while there's definitely, you have to hear on
the side of caution and want people to be safe on film sets,
there's also something undeniably thrilling about
somebody willing to just say fuck it, we're going to go for
it and see what we get. And and that's definitely what

(04:40):
happened with with The French Connection, you know, and of
course the other film that he's known for is largely, probably
even more The French Connection is The Exorcist, which is, you
know, one of the most iconic. Horror films of all time when it
came out people were like supposedly were like throwing up
in the aisles and and it just itjust caused like a really like a

(05:03):
like a stab in the in the the cinematic psyche as far as
people just getting really freaked out by this movie.
And I think what makes his filmsto me so interesting is he used
to be a documentary filmmaker. So his films felt very real.
They felt very candid shots of like, you know.
An American cop or an American daughter and and mother who just

(05:29):
had these crazy things happen tohim.
But it feels so much more terrifying because the rest of
it feels so real. Yeah.
I think the the after 73, the next time audiences were truly
shocked. You're talking about throwing up
in the theater. Was the chest burster seen in
Alien? I don't, I think.
I don't think I've seen or anything that happened until

(05:52):
Alien. What, six years later?
No, I'm sorry. Yeah.
Six years later. Yeah.
Yeah. Six years later.
And freaking, by the way, on TheFrench Connection.
He did win Best Director. Acton won Best Director and won
Best Editing, and Exorcist was nominated for Best Picture.
He was nominated for Director Again, they didn't win, but they

(06:14):
both won the Golden Globe for Best Picture and Best Director.
So yeah, the and Oh yeah, like Itold you the I did research.
And yeah, adjusted for inflation, The Exorcist is the
highest grossing movie Warner Brothers has ever put out in the
highest grossing R rated movie ever released, adjusted for

(06:34):
inflation. And I mean, how many times has
it been copied? How many sequels have they made?
How many times have they made, And they still make Exorcist
movies to this day for other nonrelated films that that try to
tap into that. What made that?
Nobody can do it. Nobody can come close.
It's impossible. You just can't.
You can't get that shock factory.
You can't get that freshness that you got because nothing

(06:54):
like that had been done before, you know, at the time.
And it also kind of just shows you, you know, Speaking of Alien
and freaking. And I mean to have the 70s such
a amazing decade for for filmmaking and freaking was, you
know, one of the, The Pioneers Ithink for for that, that brand

(07:14):
of cinema that came out, which was.
Marrying the fantastical with with the mundane basically.
And I I think what happened to freakin was that he was so
successful with his first coupleof those first two films.
Not the first two films he made with it, but you know first
films that got notoriety that after that he he never quite

(07:35):
managed to hit those heights again box office wise or
critical acclaim wise. And I'm not entirely sure why,
but one film that we have to discuss.
Is Sorcerer, which was his remake of.
What's the name of that? The The Wages of Fear.
Yeah, The Wages of Fear. And he it was a French film from

(07:57):
the 60s, I believe that he remade and when it came out
right around the time that Star Wars came out and for some
reason they chose a film title that has nothing to do with the
plot. No, I still don't know why they
call it that. I think that was a huge part of

(08:18):
the of the reason that it flopped was because people were
expecting some kind of sort of sorcery movie, and it was
nothing about that. But Source?
Yeah, I rewatched it yesterday. Did.
You what do you think about it? Yeah, I was stuck with the I was
stuck with a full frame DVD but everything that freaking I I
knew this was true and I checkedit anyway because I don't like

(08:40):
the I'd like to make sure what Isay is true.
He is only. I was going to say it's not that
bad of an experience because he didn't shoot in wide screen and
over the 18 films that he did freaking only shot in the 2.35
to 1 aspect ratio one time in his whole career.
And it was the Gulf War Action Movie Rules of Engagement with

(09:01):
Tommy Johnson, Samuel Jackson. So if you're stuck with a non
letterbox DVD you're not going to release, it's not going to
suffer that much. The thing that gets me about
Sorcerer is just the level of tension that he's able to
conjure about these, about these, you know, narrative wills
who have to transfer this nitroglycerin across the, you

(09:24):
know, South American jungle is just the suspense he gets.
It is remarkable. I think maybe there's been some
criticism about the characterizations in the in the
film being kind of flat. Maybe.
I'm not really sure. I know that he's complained that
he thought that Rory Scheider wasn't the best actor for the
part, but I think Scheider was fine.

(09:46):
I thought he was. I thought he was first rate.
My problem with the characters that they see, my criticism on
it is that it takes almost at half an hour for these for the
prologue introducing these four characters and all and these
different locales. There's France.
There's New Jersey, there's spares.
All this sounds like, you know this information could have been

(10:07):
conveyed and maybe half the amount of time and we don't the
trucks, the trucks don't get rolling until the one hour mark.
Now after when that, when those,when those trucks start rolling.
It's mesmerizing, especially thebridge sequence, which I heard I
read took months to do and and Ido love, even though it's

(10:29):
depressing as heck. I like the ending.
He goes through all this stuff. If you know he conquers all, and
then you know the end of the film that is his enemies from
New Jersey, find him. Yeah, yeah, you guys are all
that stuff. And then?
And it's like they don't spell out what's gonna happen.
You can pretty much figure it out that it's, you know, he's

(10:50):
gonna get plugged. Yeah, there's a kill.
There's no, they're not gonna worry about the cops stopping
them. And and there's the Tangerine
Dream score. Yes, the score is amazing.
And actually, I was going to tell you, I don't know if you're
aware of this. Do you know that Tangerine Dream
are touring this fall? No, I didn't.
And they're gonna do. The song from Sorcerer and some

(11:11):
other films that they're coming to Austin in September.
I'm going to try to go see him. I think it'd be cool to go
because I saw John Carpenter a few years ago, so and I've seen
Goblin perform, so seeing these acts do these like soundtracks
live is really cool. So yeah, that that soundtrack is
so revolutionary. I mean, there's so many films
now who are trying to like capture that 80s, late 70s

(11:34):
musical. You know thing that Tangerine
Dream and John Carpenter and allthose people did the minimal
electronic thing and Tangerine Dream was, you know, the
forefront. I mean, John Carpenter says that
Tangerine Dream were a huge influence upon him.
So he he's acknowledged they're they're dead.
So yeah, that was a very, very influential, interesting score
that really gave Sorcerer a different energy than a lot of

(11:55):
films from that era had. And I shorts were May.
It was 22 million for the budget.
Now back then that was a lot of money.
And then only gross 9 million? Yeah, so it was, it was a a big
flop. There was already rumors in
that, you know, they were like, oh, he's persona non grata.

(12:17):
Like, you know, his star has fallen.
And really, from that moment on,he never really had a huge hit
ever again. No, he didn't.
No, he didn't. He I I researched it on
Wikipedia. You're right.
He never had anything like that,I guess.
So the next film of note that hedid that, that got a lot of
notoriety of course, is his infamous film Cruising, which

(12:43):
which came out in 1980. It was a a killer of of gay men.
It was a serial killer. I believe it was based off a
true story and it started Al Pacino.
And that movie, I mean you thinkabout the environment now where
any film or TV that comes acrossas homophobic or or less than

(13:08):
flatter view on, you know on LGBTQ stuff gets slaughtered by
critics and you know, these daysand of course now we're dealing
with a lot of bigotry like renewbigotry towards LGBTQ stuff, so.
You know, there's a lot of extradefensiveness and and I think,
you know, in the 1980, of course, this was demonstrably

(13:31):
worse. And so the gay community really
came out and bashed the film. But I also feel like it's one of
those things too, where it's like even though I understand
the criticism there, even now I see there's always this element
of people criticizing a film without seeing it, which I think
is a mistake. I think if you're going to
condemn a film, you least need to watch it.

(13:51):
So you know what it. You know my class, Temptation of
Christ. Yeah, because because I saw
Cruising. I don't know if I saw it is
necessarily an anti-gay film, but it just, it just was a very
oddly structured film, let's putit that way.
It's not anti-gay. See, I know a lot about cruising

(14:12):
because see I read the novel it's based on.
It was this 1970 novel and the the novel switched up.
Each chapter started from the cops point of view and then
switched to the killer's point of view.
In the book, the killer is this repressed homosexual.
Who is met? Who is physically keep killing

(14:34):
gays to metaphysically kill the gay man he fears is lurking in
him And the cop who is assigned to the to be the decoy had a
history in the military of harassing gays.
He was a racist and he harassed gays and he found during the
process of the thing that he himself was gay.

(14:55):
And so the book was a really popentertainment.
It was, it was really well. But freaking who, also he did
the screenplay attached. It doesn't make a damn bit of
sense. It had it.
It takes out a lot of stuff. It was a novel, Perfin said he
purposely had three different actors play the villain, 3

(15:16):
different people speaking the lie, speaking the lines.
We would confuse the audience and throw them off.
The problem is, when the film ends, you don't know.
It just doesn't make any sense. You don't know who the hell who,
who the killer was or what was motivating him, and it's one of
the worst photographed movies ofall time.
It looks like it was shot with a50 Watt bulb, especially in

(15:37):
these dark S&M clubs which are dark anyway.
But yeah, you can hardly see thepicture.
And and also, you know, I guess because the Eric came out with
her, just nervousness under filmexecs, you know, they never.
It's like they kind of imply that maybe Pacino's character is
gay, but they really don't comment on it.

(15:58):
They can't leave it up in the air.
If if I remember it right. It's like they don't really they
kind of hint at it but but it's like it's it's it's very
noncommittal. So you really 40 minutes was
supposedly cut out of? It I could, I could see that
because it it's very it's the pacing is just really weird and
just really weird scenes like him getting slapped around by

(16:19):
that guy in the chair, like you're like, what the hell?
Yeah, the black cop who's wearing this big black muscle
cop who's wearing nothing but a jock strap.
It's like, what? What?
What? Where in the hell that came
from? I don't know.
But that you're supposed to get the implication and that the
Pacino characters, one who has committed that last murder,
Yeah, that's the way it's supposed to come across because

(16:41):
that's what was in the book. But like I said that I can't
name a time a studio cut recut amovie and it made it better.
Yeah, I can't either. It was just it's just a very,
very strange film and and we should we should note that that
if you go to Wikipedia for cruising you will see a quote

(17:05):
from Jack discussing his opinionon the film and you spare no, no
animosity towards your video. I I don't hold back.
I mean and to be fair I did giveit another look before I
reviewed it because it's been a while but yeah.

(17:26):
And from cruising. Oh my gosh let me see from
cruising. Gee whiz there I did that awful
black comedy called Deal of the Century with Chevy Chase.
Yeah, I was just looking at thatright now.
I was looking on online for all the films that he's done and I

(17:47):
yeah, it failed because it was about the arms race and there
hasn't been a single black comedy about the arms race as
ever work because the arms race is it funny?
Yeah, and what a weird cast, too.
It's like Chevy Chase, Gregory Hines and Sigourney Weaver.
It's just not not a combination.I would.
I would have and of course what happened in that but but then

(18:10):
what came out in 1985? Yes, to live and die in LA.
Which was if it wasn't. I mean it.
It was a decent size hit, I think.
I mean, it made his budget back right.
It wasn't a flop. It it it cost 11,000,000 and it
made about 15 at the box office.So I think it broke even at the
most. When you add an advertising cost

(18:32):
and stuff like that and and I I am surprised it didn't do as
much business. I don't know, I guess maybe word
of mouth got around that the characters weren't all that
pleasant. I mean, I don't know why it
didn't do better. To Live and Die in LA is a very
fascinating film. It's the first film that, well,

(18:52):
spoiler alert, if you haven't seen to Live and Die In LA,
you're going to want to watch itbefore you listen to the rest of
this. But prior to Live to Live and
Die in LA, really the only film that you had ever seen a
protagonist get killed was in Psycho.
But to Live and Die, LA was was really.

(19:13):
One of the very few films where the main protagonist gets off in
half with the film and it's notable.
The film was notable for lots ofreasons.
One is when the first films thatthat gave, I think it's is it
the second film Woman to fill upfor May.
The first one he made was Loveless with Kathryn Bigelow,
right? Yeah, but he also played the
villain in Streets of Fire, which came out in 80.

(19:36):
Four. OK, so this is one of his
earlier, earliest films, and it's it's one where he got a lot
of notoriety, because he really was just.
So menacing in it and in the lead you had William Peterson,
who would go on to put be in another underrated 80s film,
Manhunter, playing Will Graham under from Thomas Harris's book
Red Dragon, and will also go on to be the lead character and

(19:59):
producer of CSI. But this was his first.
This was his first film because he'd been doing a lot of stage
stage work. First, Yep, first movie role,
blah. I mean, tactically, it was his
first, technically his first movie role as the bartender in
Michael Mann. Steve who he tries to throw
James Connor. But you're right, yeah, in fact,

(20:20):
Peterson said in recent interview.
If it hadn't been for freaking, I'd still be doing plays, I'd
still be doing, I'd still be doing plays in second rate
theaters. Yeah.
And it's a, it's a weird film because it's like you've got
Secret Service agents and a counterfeiter and just it's kind
of a unusual. Usually you have like cops and
robbers that are more kind of traditional.

(20:43):
This had kind of different interesting divisions that were
going after each other. But it had, you know, very
frantic action scenes, an amazing car chase going down the
wrong side of the of the LA Freeway, which was super cool
and still looks dangerous as hell when you watch it now.
And it had a great soundtrack byWang Chung who freaking had

(21:05):
heard, you know doing dance halldays you know back in their
early albums. And he and while they would go
on to make their horrific everybody Wang Chung tonight,
which I still wish never happened, they made this really
great soundtrack for this film that was, you know very kind of
experimental and really added a lot to it.
But. It just it was an interesting

(21:26):
film. When I first saw it I didn't
know quite what to think about it because I was so shocked
while we and Peterson getting killed that it just it really
kind of pulled the rug out frontof me.
I was like I just was not expecting that and I'm and we I
read the Ark with you mentioned as well you shouldn't send it to
me. But talking about how you know
the studio execs were like, no, no, do not do this, do not do

(21:46):
this. And so freaking said, OK, I'll
give you an alternate ending andhe did it like in the worst
possible way so that they had touse at the version he wanted to
use. But certainly that probably did
play into it not doing as well as if it had a traditional hero
who who didn't get killed and had more of a triumphant ending.
Whereas it is, it had just kind of a a very melancholy just kind

(22:10):
of seedy ending. The whole film has got a very
seedy underbelly quality that really.
You know, kind of taps into thatthat just the way that Wayne
Pierson, when when freaking justdoes crime dramas, he just has a
really a real knack for tacking into the underbelly, making you

(22:33):
feel like you're really like in that world and makes it really
menacing. Well, it's a very gritty
picture. In fact, the cinematographer was
the German Robbie Mueller and this was his first action movie.
And year before, if you, you know, he freaking made to live
in that LA look extremely great.And you remember we talked about

(22:55):
some of those movies where you'dfeel you need a shower
afterwards because you can just feel the smog and the pollution.
There's no blinding blue skies and sunshine.
And Mueller, the year before it photographed Repo Man, which
also took place in LA and which also had a real pollution kind
of look to it. Yeah, yeah.

(23:17):
And then you really could see the smog from LA, just like.
Like clinging to the celluloid. When you watch that, it really
feels like you're like you're inLA.
I just wish he would done that. I wish he would tied it.
See, this was adapted from a novel.
I did read the novel, believe itor not, that the cop in the
novel is actually more of a SOB than the one in the film was

(23:40):
just saying something. But I just wish he'd ironed out
some things in the movie. Like to this day I still don't
know why Will of the Foe's character goes through with the
exchange when he knows they're cops.
It makes no sense because remember he says why don't you
take the why before he after when Piersons go of him he says

(24:02):
the phone says the other good Why don't you take the why
didn't you take the deal Grimes off of you.
So either Grimes told him or he had his office bug.
But he knew there were cops and to this day, I don't know why he
went through with the damn exchange.
It doesn't make any sense. And.
There's that one really weird line to where.
He shoots, he does something to somebody over.

(24:24):
It's like a piece of art or what?
So what? It was where he gets to make it
shot in the nuts. Yeah, and he goes, your piece of
art is in your ass or something weird like that.
Is that the line? Am I?
Yeah, yeah, your taste says 18thcentury Cameroon, which is an
African piece of art, he says. Your taste is in your ass and
well that's the other thing about that God damn scene.

(24:46):
He walks in there and says, did you know your house is under
surveillance? How did how?
How did the Wilms effect, the folk character know?
But no, it's under surveillance and it's I just William.
He cowrote the screenplay with the author of the novel.
I just wish he tied some of thisbecause you you've really got to
sit there and go, well, how do they make these leaves of logic?

(25:08):
But like is it? The film is so entertaining and
it's just moves like a freight train.
Credit Bud Smith's awesome editing too.
And you it's you just don't. You don't really hold it against
it because it's so entertaining.And it he followed that film up
with a film that's even less regarded but I think is a really

(25:30):
interesting film rampage. Which came out in 1987.
And no, you're close. It was supposed to come out.
If you go to IMDb, they have it listed as 1987.
Here's the problem. The Dino De Laurentiis is D e.g.
Studios was based on North Carolina.
They did Blue Velvet. Well.
The problem is Dino Lawrence hasproduced a bunch of crappy

(25:53):
pictures, even the collision course.
Remember the Well anyway. Anyway, I would remember Music
Land, that story used by Music Music Okay I in 87 I always look
at the soundtracks and there wasa soundtrack there for Rampage
by Ennio Morricone. And I had this awesome freaking

(26:14):
cover. What happened was the studio
went bankrupt before they could release it.
So the soundtrack came out maybe7, but it did not get released
in the theaters here in the US until 1992.
Miramax picked it up and they sporadically released it.
Now I saw it opening day, so you'll see it credited as a 1987

(26:38):
film and I do think it played overseas in a few.
But here in the US it didn't getreleased till 1992.
And I think freak, it's someone told me he during that time he
recut the film. He added a couple of things.
He kind of changed his The original version was correctly.

(26:58):
He was against the death toll and he's it.
It. Film is still that, but it's a
little bit more moderate. But it's still a disturbing
picture. How about that killer?
Yeah, yeah, that that was Alex Smith.
Arthur that played him, who likepreviously was only really known
I think for being in a Madonna video.
But he was, he was really chilling as a killer and of
course one of you know. The always underrated Michael

(27:21):
Bean finally, you know, had a leading role that wasn't the
typical thing he'd been known for so far.
And it was an interesting mix oflike serial cure thriller and
courtroom drama. It was, it was kind of like, it
was like he kind of cut it rightdown the bill, like this part
could be the thriller part. This part's going to be the.
I think that maybe is what threwsome people off was the fact
they were expecting to be like acontinual size of the Lambs kind

(27:44):
of a thing where that was more kind of like the preamble.
The rest of it was more of the legal stuff, but.
It was still just an interestingfilm.
It wasn't great. It wasn't like one of his best.
But I do think it's a worth. Is 1 worth watching?
Well, he took a he took a novel.It was a nonfiction book and he
wrote the screenplay himself. And it's clearly a clenched this
protest against the insanity plea.

(28:05):
But it's not really one sided. He kind of presents both sides
to it, and I looked it up. The film grows less than 900,000
at the box office. Miramax was not a major studio
back then, so they didn't release it to a whole lot of
theaters. So it also suffered from, you
know, unlimited release. So it may, yeah, they less than

(28:26):
900,000. And I don't.
I never saw The Guardian. I know that was kind of hyped a
lot when it came out because we were like, you know, from the
door to The Exorcist. He's returning to horror for the
first time since The Exorcist. And this is going to be, and I
never saw it. I never heard.
Lucky it was about a killer tree.

(28:47):
They were sacrificing the this the villain ass.
The female villain was sacrificing babies people's
babies. I I think she, you know try she,
you know, worked for these people wanted sacrificing your
babies to this killer. Sacrificing these kids to a
killer tree. And it was just, I can't

(29:09):
remember. I saw the dollar here.
I can't remember if I sat all the way through it or not.
I think I walked out of it. It was just it was I was like
what? Come on.
I was like freaking. Can you tell me of all the
scripts on your desk, this was the best one there was among
them. I can't picture that.

(29:31):
Yeah. He just, I don't know what it
was. He never was able to to really
get a. Get a foothold.
Again, you know, the way that hedid, because he did a few other
films and then another one that he did, they got really rolled
by critics, was 1995 was Jade written by the always polarizing

(29:52):
Joe Esther House and just it wasbasically like a, you know, in
the same band Esther House, other stuff like like Fatal, not
like a Basic Instinct and thingslike that.
But it got terrible reviews. I never watched that either.
I heard nothing but terrible things about that as well.
Freaking only has himself to blame because Esther House.

(30:13):
I know, basic instigence. Great move.
But he had a real talent for story construction and when
freaking wanted to do it, he Esther House made him promise.
Don't be messed around the script.
It's very all the stuffs in place.
Don't mess. And then freaking assured me
when he wound up rewroting, rewriting the hell out of it.

(30:35):
So I mean it's an entertaining picture.
I I like David Caruso. It's the photography is
wonderful wonderful. There's a couple of car chases,
but what happens is it just ultimately it makes no sense
whatsoever. And Freakins only got himself
the blind for that. He said later he shouldn't have
changed anything. He said later.
Yeah, I should have left it alone.

(30:57):
It's like, well, I'm sorry, but it's just.
But it's not. It's not.
I don't it's a bad film. But I I I gladly watch it again
just because it it is pretty enjoyable.
Yeah, it it's. In in some of the films do have
that quality where it's like they're you know.

(31:19):
I don't know brash or attacky orwhatever, but they're still very
watchable. And I think that that that's one
of those, you know, it's probably become a guilty
pleasure for a lot of people, you know, and and then we also
have in the 2000s he kind of. Didn't really have like a.
Resurgence, they did. He did get some more critical

(31:41):
acclaim because, I mean, it put out films like Rules of
Engagement and Hunted, which both didn't really.
Move the needle one way or the other.
But BUG, which came out in 2006,which is based off of a
screenplay that I'm not based off of, stage play, that got a
pretty good buzz from critics. It's a very disturbing picture.

(32:02):
It's a very good film. It's.
I mean that's unpleasant to the nth degree.
But it's a it's a it's a good kind of unpleasant because it's
just it's unforgettable. Go back.
One thing before he hit the 2000s there was Blue chips that
he did the year before Jade and that was a bad it's still the
bad best basketball movie ever made.

(32:22):
It was written by Rock Shelton who also wrote the best baseball
movie, Bull Durham and the Best football movie, The Best Times.
And he and it was Nick Nolte. He played that college coach,
the very temperamental coach whohe was a coach of this of this
university, and they kept havinglosing seasons because he

(32:43):
refused to bribe the college players that come to his
college. So they were always getting
beaten by other teams who had, who were buying these players.
And I looked it up and had a it flopped at the box office too.
Now the budget was 35 million and it only made about 20
million. And I I I just, I couldn't.

(33:04):
I looked at that much. It's mostly a talking heads
picture. All the basketball scenes take
place in the same school, so they were shot in the same
thing. These weren't deadlocks.
Sounds matters how it made some money, but it did make a good
statement on Is it right for colleges to quote, you know,
bribe athletes when these athletes bring in millions of

(33:27):
dollars to the university? Yeah.
Yeah, I mean that's something that's that's still going on
with that controversy. So it's interesting that he
would that he would tap into that and.
And the basket scenes are wonderfully He shot some
wonderful basketball scenes. I mean, the staging, the

(33:47):
editing. These are some of the best
basketball pictures I've ever seen.
Yeah, if you want to go to 2000,he also did.
Yeah, I wonder if he did this just so we could do car chases
again. He did that movie called The
Hunted. And that was Benicia Del.
Toro and Tommy Lee Jones, right?That's right.

(34:08):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it was basically.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there were a couple of car
chases in there and that they weren't very, I mean you watch
it, you're like, OK, freaking found was just trying to find an
excuse to put some car chases inthere because they they
completely didn't get along. And let me see what was there.

(34:30):
I think it's his last. It's what was Killer Joe.
Yes. Which was also.
Written by the by Tracy Letts, who also wrote Bug.
So so OK, both of those were were two of the stronger latter
day freaking ones. I mean, you could, you could you
could complain about both of them being kind of disjointed,
but bug is especially. Disturbing.

(34:52):
Because you're really seeing mythical disintegration.
And of course, that's one of Michael Shannon's first, first
breakout role, just really showed him as someone you know
to watch. And of course, he's gone on to
become a a major, a major star. Very peculiar.
But I mean he just, he really does make you feel like someone

(35:14):
is is just losing their mind andthen making everybody else
question their their sanity and it's, you know, it's a it, it
does kind of, it does kind of feel like a stage play adapted
to a film, but it's done very effectively, you know, very
minimal sets, very minimalist, but it it it, it works.

(35:35):
Yeah, it never seems. It's takes.
He's totally in this motel room and I've lived in motels for
like months on end, so I know I have to feel it.
And yeah, the way freaking shot it, you never get that cramped
set. You know it.
It doesn't. A lot of films wouldn't come
across very cinematic and freaking shot it in the way,
especially with that lighting heused.

(35:55):
He used that, that blue lightinga lot through blue color drills.
And so it was a visually alive picture.
Being that you're right, it justtakes place in this motel room.
And killer. Joe is an interesting movie
because that was really the beginning of Mackie McConaughey
finally kind of breaking out of his romantic comedy roles and

(36:15):
becoming a legitimate leading dramatic actor, you know, and
and things like that and True Detective and and all that.
So that was that was a good showcase for his talents and
that really weird scene with him, kind of.
Humiliating Gina Garchon was so so strange and Thomas A in

(36:40):
church and Mill Hirsch just it was a it was a it was a it was a
really good cast for that film not a film that I would say was
amazing and and when I had trouble kind of remaining
remembering super well. But I do know that it's got that
that Tracy Letts guy who's also a really good actor by the way.
He's been in several TV shows like Homeland and.

(37:02):
And I didn't care for it. I I watched it once.
I just. I had much care for it and just.
I just didn't get in my bubble. No, there are two things he did
because of him passing away. I've checked his mammography.
And then 1975, there's a there'san interview.
It's called Fritz Slang, interviewed by William Freakin.

(37:23):
It's 2 1/2 hours long. In the external review section,
there's only two reviews. Each of them is in a foreign
language, but I found it on YouTube and it's great because
Fritz Lang is my all time favorite director from Germany
and so but then yeah, it's 2 1/2hours long and like I said,
nobody's ever seen it. And one of the Remember, it's

(37:47):
always interesting to see what film's directors have turned
down. I did a search on that, and with
freaking, I didn't find a whole lot.
There were only two things I could find.
He turned down. He turned down MASH that Robert
Altman loved it doing, and now he turned down Star Wars.

(38:08):
Okay it. Which is ironic being that, you
know, he blamed Star Wars for sorcerer failing, but every
major director had turned down Star Wars because they hated the
script. That's why George Lucas not them
directing it, because he couldn't find it.
He couldn't find a maze. He couldn't find a major
director to do it because they hated the script.

(38:29):
But that's the all. Those are the only two films I
can find that he turned down. That is a great.
Irony that he would turn down Star Wars, but both those makes
sense. Suddenly, either of those films
would have played to his. To his sensibilities.
So I think he, probably David Lynch, was offered Return of the
Jedi. I still wish he had done.
That just to see what he would have come up with.

(38:49):
But again, I think he would havebeen a disastrous fit fit for
Star. Never allowed it?
No, Lucas would have. Never allowed what he would have
wanted. I mean, look what he did with
Dune the year later. George Lucas would have
hamstrung David Lynch, and DavidLynch knew that.
That's why he turned it down, hesaid.
I still wish Lynch had directed Red Drag, And he was offered

(39:11):
that, and he dropped out becausehe thought it was too
unpleasant. And it was like, well, look at
his other feelings, like those aren't unpleasant.
Yeah, he passed out. Passed out of her blue velvet,
which is twice as unpleasant as Manhunter ever was.
Yeah, yeah. So it's interesting.
Not this. What he what did what did
director access what they turnedout And I did do that.

(39:32):
I got to repeat that quote. You know, I said earlier about
The Exorcist, Bernard Herman, who of course scored Psycho.
He's like I said he went to screen that he screen The
Exorcist for Herman. I want a better after he came
out. I want a better score than you
did for Citizen Kane. And he said, well, I'll make a
film better than Citizen Kane, yeah, because.

(39:53):
Because Herman didn't. Herman didn't.
Didn't. Do the score for extras, right.
It was somebody else I remember.I remember the No, he didn't.
No. He turned it down.
I don't know who did it. I'm sure we would recognize the
the maybe Lalo. No, it was someone we would
recognize the I'm on my cell phone with this, so I can't

(40:14):
check it, but I'm looking, Herman.
Did not do the screenplay for. He just he apparently turned
freaking down. He just.
Apparently it wasn't his. His cup of tea.
I'm looking it up right. Now because I'm cuz I remember
here you get being like Oh my God this music is so unpleasant
because I mean you have first you have the the one piece
tubular bells which is which is Mike Oldfield which is that that

(40:35):
that repeated motif that that you know some people think
influenced John Carpenter with aHalloween theme.
You know, so that was that was primarily what was used at the
very end of the film. It was Jack Nishi had this, like
in square comes in and she's like, he was like, so like
abrasive and like, what the hellis this?
It was it was like some of the ugly, ugliest piece of music

(40:56):
I've ever heard. And it's it's just safe for the
end. But yeah, primarily it's it's
that Tubular bells. Yeah.
So did you find the name? Yeah, it.
Is it's a let's see, I just had it.
I think I just said it. It was.
I know Owen Reinsman did the cinematography who also shot

(41:18):
French Connection. It was Jack.
Jack Nitschke, OK And yeah, yeah, he.
Yeah. And it kind of felt like.
Similar to the I Need to see whodid the music of French
Connection. But French Connection also had a
similar kind of really dissonantkind of unpleasant sunny music
like it wasn't. It was very abrasive, I

(41:40):
remember. French Connection, which is very
abrasive musically, which kind of fit the whole, the whole kind
of hyperkinetic quality of the of the film.
But I'm looking this up too. I'm just curious who did the
music for it And it was Don Ellis.

(42:00):
OK, but well, if you want to look, if you want to compare
directorial styles, look at Frank.
Directed by John Frankenheimer. Did you ever see Fred's
connection too? I did.
I liked it. He had a cool.
Little boat, boat chase at the end.
Yeah, I thought that was. Yeah, I thought that.

(42:22):
That was a worthy sequel, wasn'tas good as the first, but I like
that it was different. I like that that actually went
to went to France and and took some chances with it.
And I think, I think Frankenheimer did a decent job
for a sequel. Well, I like it.
You were talking about The Exorcist, these bad ripoffs.
I Everyone hates Exorcist 2. I think Pauline Kale is the only

(42:44):
critic who even remotely like even she said the best.
Enjoy it. You have to turn off the
dialogue. But I'm still a fan of Exorcist
3, which came out in 1990. I think Exorcist 3.
Is has really become a cult film.
It's one that that based on thatone scene.
Has become iconic in its own right.

(43:06):
Because that one, the scissors. The scissors, is so terrifying
and so unexpected. And the film, the film is just
so relentlessly weird. It's just such a strange,
strange film like it feels. It it, it fits.
With the first film. But then again it doesn't.
But then again, it's its own thing.

(43:26):
I think it's, you know in hindsight it's one of those
things that that. That you you wish for sequels
where they have their own identity and it really does have
its own thing and I think it's kind of found its audience over
the years. Like it's definitely a cult
classic. Now if you watch any of those
clip shows of the type of the scariest film moments, it's
almost always in there because of that of that one scene.

(43:47):
It's because it is. I mean, I I mean, I almost
screamed at the theater when it.I almost screamed and me and
Robert, or so I think I I almostjust screamed at just the IT was
unnerving because I, I, I did. See that?
The last two Exorcist films, onedirected by Paul Schrader, 1 by
Britney Harlan. It was basically the same film,

(44:09):
but it's two different directors.
And both of them were terrible. They were Paul Schraders was
slightly better, but not by a lot.
It tried to be a psychological. It tried to be psychological.
Like, people don't want that from an exorcist film.
They don't want psychological complexity, you know?
They just want. And Brittany Harlan was the

(44:29):
opposite. He made.
I gave 100 million. He made it.
It was just like and now there'sa new exorcist coming out and
it's like, why don't you just leave the damn thing alone?
Yeah. No one cares about that stuff
anymore, you know? But freaking, yeah, you know,
today's I wonder what today's filmmakers people, people
growing up until becoming directors.

(44:49):
I mean, do they even know the importance of William freaking?
I bet you money not one thought.I bet you maybe two films to
Inside of 100 would recognize the quote.
Did you ever pick your feet in Poughkeepsie?
Yeah. Yeah and and I think it's, I
think it's worth worth mentioning.
There's a really for people who are curious what we are freaking

(45:12):
and don't know want to know moreabout and there's a documentary
called freaking Uncut I think it's currently streaming on Roku
channel. It's streaming on to be and it's
streaming on. Canopy.
And Crackle and Pluto Freebie a bunch of different places for
free. And so if you're interested in

(45:34):
learning more about his film career, I think I highly
recommend this documentaries. I saw it a couple years ago.
It was really good. So, so which film?
If you had, if you were going tobe on a deserted island for the
rest of your life and you could only have one film from each
director, which freaking film would you rather?

(45:55):
How? On the island?
I probably know what you're going to say.
And let me just tell you, three days ago after, I mean after
freaking night, Stephen King wasasked what his favorite freaking
film was. And you know, this is the master
of horror. So you would think he would have
said exorcist, right? He said sorcerer, He said

(46:17):
sorcerer, not the exorcist. He said Sorcerer.
I would say French Connection. That's a tough one.
That's a real tough one because.I mean, I've seen The Exorcist.
Probably more than any of his films, You know, on repeat
viewings. I've seen The French Connection
a bunch. I've seen Sorcererer not so many
times. Maybe I picked Sorcerer just

(46:38):
because I haven't seen it as many times.
And I and I know I I would like it.
I just forget. I sometimes forget that it
exists. So maybe if I had a chance to
watch it every single day, I'd I'd get more appreciation for
it. So I'll I'll go with Sorcer just
because that way it would be something that would.
I get some new things out of it versus watching the same thing
over again. But I should also add, they're
about to put out a 4K version ofThe Exorcist that's coming out

(47:00):
in the next few months. It's going to be a a new
release. They've just.
I saw a preview for it on my 4K TV.
It looked really, really good. I was amazed how well the
Blu-ray they made a few years ago look for 1970s film.
Just so grainy. And so diffuse, you know there
wasn't there wasn't the crystal clear but if you watch the

(47:21):
exercises on Blu-ray that the clarity is is amazing like it.
What about? Do you have the Blu-ray for
Sorcerer? I do.
Well, you hold on to it because I went and looked and if you
want a new copy from Amazon, yougo right ahead because it's out
of print and it's going to cost you 100 bucks.

(47:41):
So you hold on to that sucker. Yeah, I got.
I think I got like about. Four or five years ago.
If I'm about what I think I got it about four or five years ago
freakin did say when they were doing the Blu-ray that the
colors had faded or something like that baby they supposedly
got in there. And the the Telesign operator

(48:02):
apparently did a wonderful job of restoring the colors and
freakin the first connection theBlu-ray had a bunch of
controversy because it was recolored time by freaking and
all these purists who knew the movie decried it decried the
recolor timing and then they so there's two releases they got

(48:26):
like kind of different color timing.
So, but hold on to that ramp held on to the Sorcerer Blu-ray,
because it's a it's it's rare. And I bet you itself.
I bet you there's a lot of bids on eBay ever since freaking
passed away. Oh, I'm sure.
And it's also worth mentioning that he has a he has a film
that's hasn't come out yet. He has one final film that's

(48:46):
going to be released. Is that a I saw it.
Is that a? I saw the title.
Was that a theatrical or is it a?
Is it for TV? I'm looking here it.
Says it's called the Kane MutinyCourt Martial.
It's going to premiere in September at the 80th Dennis
International Film Festival and it starts OK Keeper Sutherland,

(49:06):
Jason Clark, Jake Lacy, moniker Raymond and Lance Reddick.
And OK, so that. That was a stage play.
That was a stage play, I believe.
Yeah, it says it's an upcoming. America Lincoln drama film
directed by William Freakin to find a film directed for his
death and his face in the core martial scenes of the Herman
Locke novel The Kane Mutiny, which is adapted to the film

(49:27):
with the same name. OK, OK, he did do the he did a
do. He did do a film version of 12
Angry Men. Sidney Lumet directed the the
first ad invention from the playand I think 60s and freakin.
He did it on the 2000s he did at12 Angry Men and Jacqueline and

(49:48):
he brought back William Peterson.
So this wouldn't be the first time he, you know, he adapted
tapped something from a stage play.
So that'll be that'll be interesting to watch.
I don't you know September's notthat far away but I just wonder
how wide. I wonder if it's going to get a
wide release or if it's going tomostly be stuck at art house

(50:10):
theater. Well, it looks like the
production. Company is Showtime and
Paramount, so I'm assuming it'llprobably be a straight to
streaming deal on. Well, that would make sense
because he was married to SherryLansing.
Yeah, For 30 years. And she's had, she was head of
Paramount. Yeah, because I doubt even.
With his notoriety of him passing away, I doubt that's a a

(50:31):
concept. Anyway, so I think streaming
streaming is probably the you know, it's probably the right
Ave. That would be a huge cinema. for
it for a smaller stage kind of thing.
Well, the Tulip and Diane Blu-ray looks looks, the the new
really. The newly released one from Keno
looks wonder. It also comes with a 4K disc,

(50:52):
but I haven't got a 4K player. But I did watch the Blu-ray,
which was struck from the 4K master, and the transfer is a
transfer is absolutely it's justabsolutely gorgeous.
Yeah, I would like to see that. I would like to like to check
that out. I think his films.

(51:13):
Are so interesting because they are like, they're not like what
I would consider beautiful filmsin a lot of ways that they're
very harsh and yeah, yeah, yeah,but.
It's the most gorgeously shot film he did was Jade.
If you get a chance watch it, you'll see what I'm talking
about that he used the cinematographer of speed.
And it's just one of the it's the most gorgeous film he ever

(51:37):
made and was shot on location San Francisco.
Which is why I think the budget went up to 50 million and it
grossed less than 10. But go and looked at that, what
you're saying is correct on thisgritty thing.
But if you want a gorgeous, gorgeous looking freaking movie,
then that's definitely Jade. Yeah, yeah, he.

(51:57):
He was a very, very interesting filmmaker and I think that, you
know, he's going to be known. Historically for for his, you
know, highlights. But we definitely wanted to
shed, you know, shed a light this whole filmography today.
I think we did a pretty good jobof covering a pretty wide body
of work. I know he also did a documentary

(52:18):
a few years ago based off an exorcism, which didn't get that
great reviews. Yeah.
Yeah. And then he did a documentary
that came out on Shutter not toolong ago called Leap of Faith,
which is about his creation of The Exorcist, which is kind of
interesting. Just hearing his musings on what
he thinks about exorcisms and possessions and and I think he

(52:42):
kind of believes in it. I think he kind of thinks it's
real. He seemed like he gave some some
credence to it like I thought hewould be much more kind of
cynical and and I was surprised that he did kind of have more of
a spiritual bent than I than I had.
I had figured so Well let's so let's so Rampage gets gets on
home. It's right now Rampage has only

(53:04):
been released on VHS. It has never been on.
It hasn't not. Not only is now Blu-ray, it's
not even on DVD. Let's hope that thing gets gets
the disc one of these damn days.I mean this is a by an important
director and I I I don't know maybe it has to do with the the

(53:26):
the rights problem because the studio win and Miramax picked
up. But I do remember the VHS was
from Paramount Pictures so that's a major studio.
But just for the record, yeah, it has yet to be on the disc.
And I think it's the only William freaking film that it
Yeah, that is not disc. It's isn't in that crap.
You see these crappy movies, man.

(53:48):
They get the DVD, they get the Blu-ray, they get the fork, they
get movies like that. They're not even on goddamn disc
yet. That's just it's unforgivable.
Yeah. It's amazing how many D e.g.
Films got screwed over like Manhunter and and that and just,
you know, so many films that that you know have.
Such a peel because they never got the the release or the

(54:11):
exposure that they that they deserved.
Like, you know, daily Renters had a real knack for picking
great filmmakers to work with, but he had a terrible way of
distributing the films. It just, you know, it's amazing
that Blue Velvet came out unscathed from all that because
you figured a film like that would have definitely gotten
lost in the shuffle. But somehow it managed to to
break out. Supposedly Dill Rentes opened

(54:35):
his D e.g. Studios to get Blue Velvet
release because while he financed it, he couldn't find
any studio to pick it up. So he basically opened D e.g.
Studios and it was Wilmington, NC.
He constructed some sound stagesthere, so because of Blue Velvet
D e.g. Pictures, you know, existed.

(55:08):
Yeah. It doesn't exist anymore.
But oh, and of course they put out one of our favorite guilty
pleasures. Raw deal.
No, that's right, they. So let's hoping, Let's, hey,
let's hope for a My gosh, we don't even have a blue.
We don't have a US version of raw deal.
We still don't have one. On Blu-ray, we don't have one.
There's a Regent free one. But anyway, get back on say at

(55:30):
least Freakin was able to convince De Laurentiis to do
Rampage, which was very unpleasant material.
And you know, so let's, yeah, let's be thankful because I know
he produced a bunch of crap. But he also the ones that scored
scored well, you know, you know scored Blue Velvet Manhunter.

(55:50):
The bedroom window. I mean, there's some damn good
pictures in there. Yeah, yeah, a lot.
Of them. And I think just back to
freakin. I think that even his films that
weren't great were still watchable just because of what a
great filmmaker he was. So even the ones that you're

(56:12):
like. At least at least there there's
still, you know, some charm to them.
So they're not all total, total losses, but definitely you might
think otherwise if you said that.
The Guardian Yeah, yeah, I think.
I think I'm gonna leave that onealone.
I think Evil Tree. I think in that Shyamalan's
already proven you can't make trees scary, so I don't think

(56:34):
even freaking could pull that off.
So and cruising and deal the century.
I think really talented directors like William freaking.
They make a film that's either very good or very bad.
They don't really have a middle ground and that's just comes
with being very talented. Yeah, and and having.
A particular point of view that you don't want to compromise.

(56:55):
You know there's never a movie by committee thing with freaking
is either his way or wasn't going to go anyway and.
That's, you know, what gave him his notoriety.

(57:19):
Style that nobody really has hastapped into before.
It's also what gave him, you know, kind of some rough
patches. But at the end of the day, what
we're looking at here is a body of work that's pretty
interesting, pretty compelling and and a filmmaker who you
know, has very. No, no.
And hopefully they'll teach us. Hopefully they're teaching us
stuff in film schools. I mean, we went to film school.
What was it was always Citizen Kane and you know, Orson, while
all this, all this unsurprising stuff they were teaching when
they would be best to be showingWilliam freaking films as well.

(57:44):
Yeah, yeah. Especially for, you know, low
budget filmmaking. It's a.
It's a. It's a master class and how to
get a lot for, you know, for films that were, you know,
modestly budgeted. Yeah, and one more thing to
note, actually, okay he only didhis career spanned a while.
And yet, if you if you don't count his TV, the films he did

(58:08):
for TV and at every he only did 18 films in his career.
Yeah, that's not a lot. For how long?
He was alive? Well, So what means he was
choosing, You know, it means he or or well, I have not.
Maybe he's choosy or maybe afterthose box office bonds he didn't
get that many scripts and maybe he got burnt out or something.

(58:29):
But 18, considering his how longhe worked, I was surprised.
I was only 18. But I went back and said yeah,
yeah, that's pretty much he. He was not a guy who did a film
every year. Did you watch that documentary?
That I mentioned a while ago. Have you ever seen that?
I'd seen it years ago. Yeah, yeah, I I'd seen it a
while back. Yeah, that was yeah.

(58:50):
He, he was freaking was always interesting in interviews.
He always wore that kind of thatsame kind of directors jacket
that Brian De Palma kind of wears.
You know what I'm talking about.So yeah.
And I haven't. I haven't, I haven't doved into
the dived into the special features on the Keno Blu-ray.

(59:12):
But I'm sure there's there is that there?
There is going to be that Airview and that scene.
You do know the scene that reshot ending that couldn't
possibly use, did you? It's available.
The special features. It's basically, it's this big
old panning shot where Bukovich and chants have been reached.

(59:33):
They've been demoted to this. It's up in a mountain somewhere
practically in Anchorage, AK, chasing being assigned there for
a counterfeit, which of course in Alaska would anything.
And there's not a single mark onPeterson space.
There's not a single scar. Nothing.

(59:55):
There's. I mean, it's case is perfect.
That's why freaking did it that way, because he knew it could
possibly be used being that he had the character was shotgunned
in the face. And it was just so.
Utterly stupid. So he he was pretty.
I I credit him for that. You know.

(01:00:15):
I'm sure they okay. Yeah.
He'll give us the ending we wantand they see it and they go, oh
God, there's no freaking way we can use that.
Yeah. I mean it's the question is if
they had, if they used it like that with the film been
remembered the way it was or wasit the fact that the way it was
is by the film was remembered, which is the fact that it had a
very unusual ending that really kind of threw everything on its
ear. So I think that's that's one of

(01:00:37):
those things where it's like, itmay not, it may not get the
acclaim it it deserved at the beginning, but I think it's
definitely become a cult film onits own right now that a lot of
freaking fans will say it's one of its best and it is for sure.
Well, what? 11 Critic who hated it, I think
from Time magazine. He nicknamed it Miami Vile.

(01:00:59):
He is. He was.
Told I mean when Peterson's character gets an FBI agent
killed. Yeah, he he he doesn't.
It doesn't affect him in the least.
He just said, hey, what do you want me to do about it?
And go back to Gene Hackman and in French Connection, remember
he wants of accidentally shooting that FBI agent and he
doesn't stop and mourn the guy. He keeps going after the

(01:01:23):
Frenchman. Yeah yeah yeah.
It's just like forget that I'm. I'm on to the yeah, and
definitely I mean shot a guy in the back.
It's like it's it's like, you know, in The French Connection,
it's like it's not a, it's not avirtuous character.
Here is just somebody who is going to, you know, do what he
wants to get what he wants and we'll do every dirty trick,

(01:01:43):
whatever it takes to to to take down his target.
And he never would have seen a film like that before where the
the leading man shoots the bad guy in the back.
It never would have done that. That was very, very unusual,
even though in real life that's usually how it would have to
happen to stop somebody. Popeye also.

(01:02:04):
Did the Popeye character, didn'the do that with the Frenchman
and French Connection 2? He also shot him in.
The back when he was sailing away, Correct.
And that's how I remember. Yeah, I think.
I think you're right. I think you're right because he
shoots him on the. Dock he's the Frenchman's
getting away on the boat, but heis Popeyes on the dock and I do

(01:02:24):
believe, yes, he shoots him in the back in that film too so.
Yeah, I mean, how many, not manyactors would play a character
like that. But Gene Ackman, you know, never
cared about how you know about his image, you know, like Robert
Redford or Steve McQueen, You know, he never gave a damn.
He, he was willing to come across this.

(01:02:45):
And so what's William Peterson? I mean, this was his first major
role. Many actors would want to
protect themselves. You know, they'd want to come
off to the audience as they can.And Peterson, just so.
So right into that, he just, youknow, he was on the play this
complete SOP. And his girlfriend Mary.

(01:03:05):
She asked what would you do if Istopped giving you information?
He said I'd have your parole revoke.
Yeah, and he plain and simple. There's no soft pelling.
He just says I'd have it revoked.
And he's sleeping with her. We should also mentioning French
Connection. One less thing I would say is,
you know they made a really ill advised TV movie that was going

(01:03:30):
to be a TV show I guess about the character Popeye Doyle,
played by Ed O'Neill, if you remember that or not, yes.
I do. It's terrible.
And I mean, Ed did it. How?
Many episodes was it? I think it was last.
I think it's just the pilot. I don't think it went past the
pilot. I think, oh, you're right,
you're right. A.
Pilot. OK.
A pilot. You're right.

(01:03:50):
Oh, my God. What were they thinking?
Yeah, I mean, like, you know, nooffense to Ed O'Neill, but, you
know, he's. No, he's no Gene Hackman.
That's just, yeah, that's not a.TV safe character.
Yeah, they tried to make it thatway.
And it was just like every otherbad 80s cop show, you know, like
Hunter or something crappy like that.

(01:04:11):
But yeah, I think we did a pretty deep dive into freaking
everybody out there who's been interested in what we were
talking about. You should definitely check out
this film with the documentary and check out The 4K Exorcist
whenever it comes out later thisyear, and maybe we'll all get a
chance to see his last film sometime in the next few months.

(01:04:35):
Yeah, yeah, I hear. Something and hopes.
Yeah, absolutely. So well, Michael, it's been
great talking to you. Yeah, it's been too long.
What to do this again. Let's do this again sometime.
Let's let's tackle some other films coming out and let's let's
make this. Yeah, I guess we.
Will, I don't go to the theater Very.
I haven't been to the theater since Cocaine Bear.

(01:04:55):
No, I saw that too. I saw that too.
That's the last. I've been to the theater.
I just. I can't take it.
I can't take audiences being loud and rude and cell phones
and kids crying and all that. I but with cocaine.
Bear my God, you had to go to the theater.
See, it turns out it was a terrible movie.
There was not nearly enough of the bear.

(01:05:16):
All these boring talking. Edsies And I was just like, my
God, I wanted a guilty pleasure.And you 7575% of it was
dialogue. Yeah, it it had its moments.
But nothing. Nothing memorable.
Nothing. When not when.
Not when I would watch again. It just it's it's just not
enough. Not enough.
Not enough. There.

(01:05:36):
Well, let's not. Let's.
Let's yeah, we'll talk to you. Hopefully it won't be over
enough. Hopefully it'll be a while for
another famed director you know passes away.
So. But he lived a good life,
Michael. He was 78.
He spent his life doing what he loved.
I mean he, I mean how many people can say that and got rich

(01:05:57):
at it too. I mean how many people can say
that where they they live their lives doing what they loved and
it got paid really well and theywere well respected at the end.
So I think he had a very good life.
Yeah. Yeah, I think if, you know first
careers go ups and downs, I think the ups outweigh the
downs. And that's what we're talking
about him right now. Otherwise he would have been

(01:06:19):
forgotten. All right.
Well. I will talk to you later.
All right. Jack, thanks a lot.
This is fun. Bye.
OK, bye. Bye.
Bye.