So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE's Nico Perrino. New episodes post every other Thursday.

Episodes

June 27, 2025 46 mins

FIRE staff responds to the Court's decision in Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton that addresses a Texas law requiring age verification for accessing certain sexual material online.

Joining us:

Will Creeley — Legal director

Bob Corn-Revere — Chief counsel

Ronnie London — General counsel

Timestamps:<...

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We discuss the Supreme Court backing Maine lawmaker Laurel Libby, NPR filing suit against Trump, a years-long dispute over a student wearing a “there are only two genders” shirt, the Secret Service investigation into James Comey, the latest on Harvard vs. Trump, and more.

Guests:

Bob Corn-Revere — chief counsel, FIRE


Lee Levine — ...

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Heather Mac Donald discusses the Trump administration’s free speech record amidst its battles with higher ed, mainstream media, law firms, and more.

Mac Donald is Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. Her most recent book is “When race trumps merit: How the pursuit of equity sacrifices excellence, destroys beauty, and threatens lives.

Timestamps: 

00:00 Intro

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May 8, 2025 55 mins

The co-authors of “The Canceling of the American Mind” discuss its new paperback release and where cancel culture stands a year and a half after the book’s original publication.

- Greg Lukianoff — 

  • President and CEO of FIRE

  • Co-author of "The Canceling of the American Mind"

  • <...

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Our guests today signed onto a statement by a group of 18 law professors who opposed the Trump administration’s funding threats at Columbia on free speech and academic freedom grounds. 

Since then, Northwestern, Cornell, Princeton, Harvard, and nearly 60 other colleges and universities are under investigation with their funding hanging in the balance, allegedly for violations of civil rights law. 

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We travel from America to Europe, Russia, China, and more places to answer the question: Is there a global free speech recession? 

Guests:

- Sarah McLaughlin: FIRE senior scholar, global expression

- James Kirchick: FIRE senior fellow

- Jacob Mchangama: FIRE senior fellow

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

03:52 Free speech global survey...

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We explore how censorship is impacting institutions — from universities to law firms to the Maine House of Representatives.

Timestamps: 

00:00 Intro

01:40 Federal government cuts Columbia’s funding

16:57 Updates on the Mahmoud Khalil case

27:01 Ed Martin’s Georgetown letter

34:59 Trump targeting law firms

55:01 Maine House censur...

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March 18, 2025 39 mins

First Amendment lawyer Marc Randazza and immigration lawyer Jeffrey Rubin join the show to discuss the arrest, detention, and possible deportation of green card holder Mahmoud Khalil.

Timestamps: 

00:00 Intro

00:53 Latest updates on Khalil

02:51 First Amendment implications

06:08 Legal perspectives on deportation

11:54 Chilling effects on f...

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Does a cat stand on two legs or four? 

The answer to that question may tell you all you need to know about the government involving itself in social media content moderation.

On today’s show, we cover the latest tech policy developments involving the Federal Communications Commission, Federal Trade Commission, AI regulation, and more.

 

Guests:

- Ari Cohn...

From JD Vance’s free speech critique of Europe to the Trump administration barring the Associated Press from the Oval Office, free speech news is buzzing. General Counsel Ronnie London and Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere unpack the latest developments. 

Timestamps: 

00:00 Intro

01:49 JD Vance’s speech in Europe

13:27 Margaret Brennan’s comment on the Holocaust

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Over the years, elite institutions shifted from fostering open debate to enforcing ideological conformity. But as guest Ilya Shapiro puts it, “the pendulum is swinging back.” He shares his firsthand experience with cancel culture and how the American Bar Association’s policies influence legal education. Shapiro also opines on major free speech cases before the Supreme Court, including the TikTok ownership battle and Te...

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January 23, 2025 67 mins

The University of Chicago is known for its commitment to free speech and academic freedom. Why are these values important to the university? Where do they originate? And how do they help administrators navigate conflicts and controversies?

Tony Banout and Tom Ginsburg direct the University of Chicago’s Forum for Free Inquiry and Expression, which received a $100 million gift last year. They are also editors of “The Ch...

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Is the free speech conversation too simplistic? 

Peter Ives thinks so. He is the author of “Rethinking Free Speech,” a new book that seeks to provide a more nuanced analysis of the free speech debate within various domains, from government to campus to social media.

Ives is a professor of political science at the University of Winnipeg. He researches and writes on the politics of “global Engli...

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FIRE staffers take your questions on the TikTok ban, mandatory DEI statements, the Kids Online Safety Act, Trump vs. the media, and more.

Joining us:

  • Ari Cohn, lead counsel for tech policy

  • Robert Shibley, special counsel for campus advocacy

  • Will Creeley, legal director

This webinar was open to the public. Future monthly FIRE Member Webinars will not be. Become a paid subscriber t...

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“Who controls what is taught in American universities — professors or politicians?”

Yale Law professor Keith Whittington answers this timely question and more in his new book, “You Can’t Teach That! The Battle over University Classrooms.” He joins the podcast to discuss the history of academic freedom, the difference between intramural and extramural speech, and why there is a “weaponization” of intellectu...

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Woodrow Wilson or Franklin D. Roosevelt: which president was worse for free speech?

In August, FIRE posted a viral X thread, arguing that Woodrow Wilson may be America’s worst-ever president for free speech. Despite the growing recognition of Wilson’s censorship, there was a professor who wrote a recent book on FDR’s free speech record, arguing that FDR was worse. 

Representing the Wilson side...

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November 14, 2024 45 mins

Ayaan Hirsi Ali grew up in a culture of conformity. She was beaten and mutilated. She was told who she must marry.

Eventually, she rebelled.

“You don’t speak up at first,” she told us. “First you leave and you find a place of safety. It’s only after that experience that it occurred to me to speak up about anything.”

Hirsi Ali is a human rights activist, a research fellow at the Ho...

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In this live recording of “So to Speak” at the First Amendment Lawyers Association meeting, Samir Jain, Andy Phillips, and Benjamin Wittes discuss the legal questions surrounding free speech and artificial intelligence.

Samir Jain is the vice president of policy at the Center for Democracy and Technology. Andy Phillips is the managing partner and co-founder at the law firm Meier Watkins Philips and Pusch. Benjamin Wit...

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The FIRE team debates the proposition: Should there be any categories of unprotected speech?

General Counsel Ronnie London and Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere go through each category of speech falling outside First Amendment protection to decide whether it should remain unprotected or if it’s time to “remove an arrow from the government’s quiver.”

Read the transcript.

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The FIRE team discusses Tim Walz’s controversial comments on hate speech and “shouting fire in a crowded theater.” We also examine California’s AI deepfake laws, the punishment of tenured professors, and mask bans.

 

Joining us are:

Aaron Terr, FIRE’s director of Public Advocacy;

Connor Murnane, FIRE’s Campus Advocacy chief of staff; and

Adam Goldstein, FIRE’s vice pr...

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