October 28, 2025 • 24 mins
In this edition of the continuing series on SDH AM, football consultant Jason Stephens looks at multi-club organizations and conversations involving John Textor kicking the tires in the Prem
We also look at the Sheffield Wednesday situation and concern over influence in Italy
We also look at the Sheffield Wednesday situation and concern over influence in Italy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back, my friend. It is great to see you,
first and foremost. And so we spend a couple of
weeks apart, and there's a couple of things we need
to talk about and catch up on.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I want to be back. We
could be back. Let's get going, all right.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
So one of the things that obviously two of the
topics that I had in my hip pocket we agreed on.
So it's like two on my end and two on
your end, and you brought all four. So we were
in agreement for a bit. Sheffield Wednesday situation, and I
guess this is administration for dummies that that particular section
because right now dafon Chen Siri has basically said you know,
(00:38):
enough is enough and he is now put them in administration.
It is an automatic twelve point deduction. They're at the
bottom of the championship. But just because you're an administration
doesn't mean that everything is solved. You still have bills
to pay, you still have you know, deadlines, you still
have to meet. There's a twenty eight day window. Please,
(01:00):
if you would, sir, breakdown administration for dummies and what
the steps are here for Sheffield Wednesday. Even though Dafon
Chancerri has apparently had enough of the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, so basically the administration is a mediator, right, but
somebody that comes in and basically pays the bills. But
somebody will come in and strip back all the costs,
so they will pay the bills the minimum amount of bills.
So they would make cutbacks if they can, because the
administrators are like an independent financial company.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
They don't want to spash the cash. They want to.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Streamline it as much as they can. And then in
the process they're trying to find a new buyer.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
For the club.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So you know, Sheffiel Wenesay've had some bids on the
table and the owner has refused to accept them.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So now it's got to the point.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Where obviously he can't get to paying the bills and
he would rather the club going to administration than take
the office that.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
We're on the table.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Now, that doesn't mean to say that it gets sold
for any less, for any more, because there'd be some
t's and c's that would be outlined. But ultimately the
administrator is is a body that will come in.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
They will make decisions now on the overall management.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
They will be the ones picking up the wage bill
and running operational costs, and there will be the ones
that will be mediating a new buyer and then you
know Sheffel Wensy's future.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I mean, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
When somebody goes into administration, it's never one hundred percent
safe because you still got to agree on the selling rights, right,
so there is a risk that it just goes into
liquidation on the back of that. Then the club will
be out the league and have to basically be a
Feenix club rebook birth itself. But we don't know which
(02:43):
way he's going to be shaping this potential self. Now
we know that there's only as the stadium rights, and
obviously we know he owns the team rights.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
There's still a bit of a way to go. Now
you say twenty eight days, yes, traditionally it's twenty eight
days from an administrator, but they can apply for it
to be extended if they want to. We've seen that
in previous cases with Derby County et cetera, et cetera.
If there's interested buyers that come to the table and
they're king, then it's a negotiation. So that could take
as long as it takes, really.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
But Cheffin Chefs is a big brand. It's it's a
big brand.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
It's got a huge, you know, consumer base, so I
don't I can't see there being short of a few
interested parties.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Now.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
The problem is is that it needs so much innovation,
it needs so much investment. The stadium has run down,
the squad is that it's band minimum, and obviously there's
debt associated to it. So you know you're coming in
to buy that club, you're going to be having the
part with probably half a billion pound if you're back
to in a new stadium, and then get the squad
(03:52):
up to being competitive level, clear your debts. And obviously
the other thing I haven't concluded it is the training ground.
The training ground is completely run down as well, so
it is a complete new project. But on the sign
in the same time, it's got so many attractive parts
to it that it really will be an attractive proposition
for somebody. And you know, if I was to say
(04:15):
to you, you know, which clubs belong in the Top
League because of their history, because of their metrics, fan base,
et cetera, then you know, shefferl Wednesday would be in
that conversation. It's got so much history, et cetera. So
I think this could be a turning point for the better,
no doubt about it. But there's still a few EPs
to go backwards.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
First topic number two, and it was a topic that
on Monday Morning show we spent a good twenty minutes
on and I know it will surprise you, tongue firmly
planted in cheek that it was about Atlanta United's best
friend John Texter and the new news that is a
(04:52):
new reports that are associated with him where he basically
said tell you what into an imaginary room, has a
conversation with folks Son, the owner of Wolves, and is like,
tell you what I want to buy you. We haven't
talked about this at all. I'm walking in the door.
I want it to be cash and shares of like
(05:13):
one fifty and two fifty for like four hundred million
or so. And Folkson didn't take too kindly to that
because they would have liked to have, you know, maybe
had a conversation first. And now they want to seek
outside investment to help them out. John Texter seems to be,
you know, hell bent on having this one, you know,
now added to the portfolio where we have all these
(05:34):
discussions that Matt Slater had at the Athletic about Eagle
two point zero and going public and stock exchanges and stuff,
and all of this going on, while apparently he now
and this is stuff that we've cycled through in the past.
Eagles Mainlander Ares management, according to Matt Slater, has been
(05:55):
trying to draw back four hundred and twenty five million
US that it loan Detects in twenty twenty two to
buy Leon. He's given Aries most of the proceeds from
his sale of his Palace Shares forced to accept the
imposition of an independent director at Eagle to oversee Aris
interests elsewhere in the group. That director stepped down, replaced
by another insolvency expert. Aries in Texter are discussing whether
(06:19):
it's best for them to divorce. Perhaps Texter keeps both
the Fogo Aris gets Leon. Texter has another disagreement with
Iconic and last week in Florida, it was decided that Florida.
The judge in Florida said, not my purview, that's not
my geography. It's got to be done in England. So
seventy five million with Iconic and Eagle, and it's now
(06:41):
in England. Can you sort this out or is it
sort outable?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, look,
there's a media like to create a narrative which is
a lot worse than what it is.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So going back to the ares one, Yes, there's a
significant amount of money that Areas have given Eagle Football Holdings,
especially for the acquisition of Leon as you highlighted. But
you know, in return for that four hundred million, the
breakdown of the only ship there is only roughly about
six percent that they've got if that so in theory,
(07:15):
out of the whole Eagle Football Holdings ownership breakdown, it's
very very hard for them to force a sell because
Eagle Football Holdings is made up of one, two, three, four, five.
So I've got it in front of me five, six, seven, eight, nine, eleven,
sorry fifty six. Here, I'm going at twenty different organization right,
(07:36):
and there is management has got five or six actually
six of those companies in there, but if you add
its total steak, it's less than one two five point
three percent. Now, the biggest stakeholders are Iconic Sports, which
has got one of its lawsuits out with them, and
then you've got Michel Kang who's got another six percent,
(07:58):
and then you've got lots of other are.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Investors. And another significant investor is Elmwood Eagle.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Now these guys have a lot of voting power, and
it's John Texter and them that they seem to be
quite solid. And then the other one, which has got
like four or five companies in this Eagle Holdings, is
Monroe Capital. Okay, so two companies there that between them
have about eleven percent of the voting rights, and if
you put that with John Texter's sixty five percent, then
(08:29):
they've got seventy six together. And you know, going back
to Areas Management, they've actually agreed to defer all payments
for another year, so that's been settled. They're happy to
lay back for another twelve months. So I appreciate what
Matt saying, but he's just, you know a little bit
off there in the fact that could they hold it
over to Leon or twelve months down the line. They
(08:50):
could If John Texter doesn't refinance, then all sorts of conversations.
But what John is trying to do is stay relevant, right,
He's trying to stay relevant. Knows that Wolves are looking
for investment, and yes, they've have been opened and sort
of suggested that they're up to giving away forty nine percent. Now,
I tried to buy their women's team last year and
(09:12):
we was offered forty nine percent, but we wanted fifty
one percent and they weren't interested in that any shape
or form. So I know that you know they are
looking for that investment. But also, I mean, if you
read that same article, Matt will also say that they've
been in discussions with five or six other championship clubs
as well. So he needs an English club because he
wants to float it right, he wants to fly Eagle
(09:33):
Football holding two point zero.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Now people are saying to me, where's he getting the
money from?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Well, Marinakas is definitely operating in the shadows with him,
so I wouldn't be surprised if he's being funded with
that because obviously part of the two point oh launch
wars with the Marinakis group as well. They want a
South American club, I Brazil, Potti Fargo, Bottle Fargo wants
some clubs in Europe to be able to bring the
(09:58):
Brazilian players over, and obviously ACAS has got the Victoria
group as well, and then ideally you want a championship
club to be able to feed those players into to
allow them time to grow. And then you know, obviously
it's cheaper to buy a championship club than it is
to buy a four hundred million pounds take in a
Premier League club and you're gonna have a lot of
change out of that. So yes, you know these conversations
(10:22):
are happening. I think John's trying to stay relevant in
the media. He's trying to make it build up some
momentum for me stakeholders to say, look that I'm still active,
I'm still looking for clubs in England. Yes, we put
in a bid for Wolves, but was it official or
was it just media leaking something that wasn't official as
it Peede Wolves off. Yes, because it wasn't through the
official channels. But Wolves are looking for investment, right, so
(10:45):
that's no secret. There there's more in this one, John,
There's more in that one. And John text is not
going away, right okay?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And you know I know that you in the past
have mentioned Fubo TV, And there are the other elements
of the portfolio of John Texter, which means that people
are attracted to to continue to have business with a
gentleman like that So taking that as that recent example,
and what we've always tried to say after the conversations
with you, when you see a situation like this, look
(11:13):
at the entire portfolio of an individual. Don't just look
at the sports and entertainment element of this. Find out
what else is going on with that individual and see
where there might be interest and longer term investment and
playing a long game would help out that investor that
wants to come to the money in the short term
that would be headed towards sports.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah, exactly. I mean, these guys they know how to
run business.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
So I'm not saying they know how to run sports organizations,
but these guys know how to run business. You know,
they're billionaires for a reason. There's two sayings. You don't
become a billionaire about one knowing what you're doing, and
then the other saying is you don't become a billionaire
about doing some crooked work in the meantime. So, you know,
John Texter is taking all those boxes at the moment
right He's showing his creativity and he's showing that he
(11:56):
knows how to navigate some shortcomings as well.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Fair play to.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Number three is now, when when you had these three
terms together in a sentence. I was instantly like spidy
sensors were going what you had in the same sentence,
mco infiltration and mafia all in the same sentence. That
I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing when
all three of those are in the same sentence. What
(12:23):
is going on here?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yes, I mean, listen, I don't think it is much
of a surprise that the mafia have been connected to
Italian football clubs, right they use it as a process
to main laundering money, to access money, et cetera. But
it was actually come to our attention that what we
have seen is the jutical administration in Italy. Now they've
(12:46):
now taken control of Bair Holdings, but it's a club
they've actually taken control of, which is s s u
vest Bia, which playing Seriah B.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But it's also part of bear Holding.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
That Stabilia is fifty two percent owned by BurrH Holdings
and that's led Annual James McCrory, and then you've got
Andrea Lungela who's balty a percent, but he was pretty
much a primary owner until twenty five when Burrough Holdings
acquired that fifty two percent. Anyway, the Judical Administration say
(13:21):
that there's been long time association with the Camora map
and they found conclusive evidence that they have been control
rolling the matchday ticket, in season tickets, catering, food and beverage, concession,
stadium contracts, cleaning, security, maintenance, healthcare, protection.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Money and travel service.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
So there was a few areas they haven't Now there's
a few areas they haven't controlled, but you know, the
pretty much they control and everything. So what we're suggesting
is that while we takes up to about fifty percent
of their annual revenue and a lot of that is
going through the Camorra mafia. Now Italians are the juticals
system of saying, look, this has been.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Going on a long term and you played ignorance to it.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
We're not accusing anyone in the club here with any
criminal activity, but you've just definitely turned a blind and
you haven't done anything about it. And you could appreciate,
Bobby haven't done anything about it. We're not going to
leave any time. So the Judical Department of coming and
they've taken control of the club now and they're going
to be running the operations side.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So I you trying to bring in new contractors.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
But I don't think that's going to be as easy
as it sounds, because there's no doubt the mafia will
be controlling its rivals or its local areas.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
In the meantime as well.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
But looking into this a little bit further than I've
don a little article on this on LinkedIn, and this
is the third club this year that the judical administration
team has possessed. And there's another club in Seriah C
which is Quatrone obviously not pronounced the correct way here,
but they've been well invested that they've been in portraded
(15:00):
by the Calabrian mafia for ten years now, since twenty
and fifteen. And then you've got Foggi Kelcio nineteen twenty,
which is also another Serrea C club and they've been
infiltrated by the Foggier of mafia. And that's basically intimidation
and expulsion from around twenty businesses are associated to the
(15:21):
football club, you know, and if we look back at this,
look some Milan Asimlan have bad connections with mafia.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Palmer I've had connections with the mafia, you.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Know, They're not the only ones. There's probably a whole
list of clubs, et cetera that go on. But the
point of all of this is how much money has
been taken from the football Italian ecosystem just because of
organized crime.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And you know, I don't.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Want to leave this and make this an Italian problem
because this like to go Iu put on LinkedIn, and
actually some people have actually responded to this and said, look,
this is just not an Italian thing. This actually happens
in Brazil, This actually happens in Portugal, this actually happens
in Eastern European and because organized crime is a global thing, right, so,
and they used clubs, multi club ownership models, there's a
way of laundering money. So you know, last year I
(16:06):
was asked to do a session with Interpol right looking
at how these organized crimes can use multi club ownership
models as a way of filtering that money, you know,
with limited detection. So there's definitely a vehicle for then.
But yeah, definitely come to me. But at the same time,
I just want to pick this up our holdings and
(16:26):
not in it. Do believe that they know something more
than what they're letting on because actually there was a
couple of weeks ago, right that they actually change the
way that their company was structured. I'll just get out
the exact information here because I want to make sure.
So they took a business pivot, right, So they changed
(16:49):
their sports MVO company from a Salana blockchain, changing its
ticket from a Breyer to an s l MT in
September twenty five. This is not a coincidence, right. They
knew that this was coming and they anticipated bigger problems
in their portfolio. So yes, they took a hit on
the shares, but they started to climb back up. Now
I'm using a different market, but ultimately they're going to
(17:12):
leave themselves open to further investigations from NASDAK where they're
listing as listed to potentially some of those key individuals
are going to be scrutinized even further.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
But yeah, it's interesting, That's all I can say on
that moment.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah. Yes, so looking at Brera Holding company listed, you know,
courtesy of our friends at the wikipedias. Mco focused in
sports offices in Milan and Dublin, currently own four association
football clubs and a volleyball club traded on the NASDAK,
world's first publicly traded multi club sports ownership group, which
(17:48):
is and that's as of March of twenty four and
it goes back to Dan mclory as you mentioned with them.
So the clubs that they are tied to. You mentioned
Brera and you mentioned Uvestabia in the in the Italian pyramid,
you have Brera Stromichica, which is in Macedonia. You have
Brera Ilic which is in Mongolia, and you also have
(18:13):
WFC to Varia Brera Stromichka as well. So you have
two Macedonian clubs, one one that we know in the
first division, another one that still apparently I guess just
exists in name only, and then you go to Mongolia
and two in Italy, which is that's that's a that's
an interesting mix. I'll just use the word interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah, They've also got a volleyball club in Italy as
well there as well, so they're not they've got a
multi sports organization as such.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And what they have done is, you know, they've bought these.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Lower level clubs and they changed the names et cetera,
to unify the branding, et cetera. But as I said,
Stadia has maintained it's in terms of its identity, it
is maintained identity separate from the branding. But that's because
obviously they don't own one hundred percent of the club,
and obviously we have seen a lot of European clubs
(19:06):
they're very protect of their image branding, So I understand that.
But you know, the point is here, Yeah, you know,
those countries are not necessarily have rigid checks, right, So
if they're not having those regular checks and they're not
being scrutinized by wider governing bodies, then you know, it's
(19:27):
probably a lot easier to filter money through, carry money
through where they have the ways they want to do.
What I'd be interested in is looking at the movement
of players within there.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Et cetera.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Looking at the average gate receied stadium tickets to see
if they're actually genuine, because that's one way that you
can fabricate money, you know, is make out that you
sold ten thousand season tickets, but you're only average in
two and a half thousand, you know, and then the
questions of mark of you know where the other seven
and a half thousand. But you know, there are sort
of tactics that any club can sort of navigate. We've
(19:59):
seen in the Premier League, right because in the Premier League,
for example, giving off track here. But you know that
they have contracts, so they have to have high stadium utilizations,
so it's as high as like ninety six ninety eight percent. Now,
if clubs don't have that, they have to prove that
they've sold those tickets for that day because you can't
guarantee that everyone turns up. So what a lot of
(20:19):
the owners do is that they buy the missing seats,
so people that day they buy the missing seats because
they need to make sure matchday revenue is that it's
highest in order for them to meet psgules. Right, So
that's a tactic that can be used in and manipulated
in other ways. So I wouldn't be surprised if mafia
organized crime is using that tactic to say, Look, we've
actually got ten thousand season to get old.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Is one. Not everyone turns up every week. There's just life,
you know.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
However, we've got this money coming through the system, so
there's nothing that organizations can do about that, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Topic last then it has to do with alphabet soup
and the renaming of things, and I thought it was interesting.
It's like, okay, we're going to call ourselves. I think
that they're heading to east. Now that's the new one.
Right they were from one name and they're now the ECA.
Is that is that the right direction on that one?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
ECA was the European Club Association, which was rebranded in
I think two thousand and eight. Around that time, they
was like the G fourteen, a representation of elite the
wealthiest clubs in Europe. But they've just rebranded now to
I think it's like European Football Clubs Association. Because look
(21:29):
what the ECA were there was a representation of the
world's elite clubs, but it was like a closed shop
in terms of its governance. Now, if you were rich
and you earned your club owned so much money, then
you was entitled to tier one and Tier one gave
you voting rights. And then what we saw was at
the lesser clubs, they was invited to subscribe, but they
(21:49):
never had any voting rights. And then we saw another
union form last year which was like Union of European
Clubs and it was for the voice for the smaller,
smaller club basically, and it was like they were saying
one vote, one membership, et cetera. And that grew quickly
over time and then the ECA, so actually we need
to restructure what we're doing here because if we don't,
(22:11):
we're going to probably lose our power. Now, the ECA
won't lose his power because obviously one it's represented by
the wealthiest clubs and we know that money talks. But
what they did do is they changed their membership quite
quickly and now they've opened it up to all the
clubs in the top leagues across the fifty five European
nations and that has roughly eight hundred members in there,
(22:32):
and it's probably the brainchild of Khalifa. Actually, the phg Stroke,
current ECA president, probably done himself the world of good
for the next FIFA presidency.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I think he's going to be a strong candidate for that.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But politically, what it just means, well, it still means
that ECA controls the commercial operations of European football. They
would have a big saying what that looks like at
FIFA on the global tournaments and any new tournaments that
are up and coming. But what they are now is
a bit more reflective of the European landscape rather than
just the rich club So there's a modern adjustment that
(23:08):
was needed. But I'm not too sure it's going to
have much of a sway in terms of the way
it's reflected because the big clubs are always going to
control football right under the table.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
They do. It's just there's one thing that happens on
the shop floor.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
But we're not privy too, is what those conversations are
behind closed doors or messages that are exchanged under the table,
and we know, like for example, in England, Liverpool Man
United control football and what the rest do is what
they want them to do, you know. And people will say, well,
that's a bit of a harsh thing to say, but
that is it's just the way football has been for
many years, right and people just have to accept that.
(23:46):
They accepted, but it's just the way it is. It's
just the way football is. Certain clubs control it, you know,
Real Madrid control Spanish football. If they want something to happen,
they have a word with the royal family who are
their prime packers, and all changes.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Strange how that works, Absolutely great to see my friend.
As always, I love it when we can educate everyone
on this side of the Atlantic about what's going on
on the other side of the Atlantic and how it
impacts both sides. As we're growing the game here and
it's established overseas and now economics and Vulcan chess and
trying to figure things out in three dimensions. It's always
(24:24):
great to see you, my friend. Thanks again. We'll do
this again next week and we will continue the discussions
and getting smart when it comes to MCOs and everything
going on and how it all interlinks. Great to see you,
my friend. Will see you soon.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Thank you,
Welcome back, my friend. It is great to see you,
first and foremost. And so we spend a couple of
weeks apart, and there's a couple of things we need
to talk about and catch up on.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I want to be back. We
could be back. Let's get going, all right.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
So one of the things that obviously two of the
topics that I had in my hip pocket we agreed on.
So it's like two on my end and two on
your end, and you brought all four. So we were
in agreement for a bit. Sheffield Wednesday situation, and I
guess this is administration for dummies that that particular section
because right now dafon Chen Siri has basically said you know,
(00:38):
enough is enough and he is now put them in administration.
It is an automatic twelve point deduction. They're at the
bottom of the championship. But just because you're an administration
doesn't mean that everything is solved. You still have bills
to pay, you still have you know, deadlines, you still
have to meet. There's a twenty eight day window. Please,
(01:00):
if you would, sir, breakdown administration for dummies and what
the steps are here for Sheffield Wednesday. Even though Dafon
Chancerri has apparently had enough of the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, so basically the administration is a mediator, right, but
somebody that comes in and basically pays the bills. But
somebody will come in and strip back all the costs,
so they will pay the bills the minimum amount of bills.
So they would make cutbacks if they can, because the
administrators are like an independent financial company.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
They don't want to spash the cash. They want to.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Streamline it as much as they can. And then in
the process they're trying to find a new buyer.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
For the club.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So you know, Sheffiel Wenesay've had some bids on the
table and the owner has refused to accept them.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
So now it's got to the point.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Where obviously he can't get to paying the bills and
he would rather the club going to administration than take
the office that.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
We're on the table.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Now, that doesn't mean to say that it gets sold
for any less, for any more, because there'd be some
t's and c's that would be outlined. But ultimately the
administrator is is a body that will come in.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
They will make decisions now on the overall management.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
They will be the ones picking up the wage bill
and running operational costs, and there will be the ones
that will be mediating a new buyer and then you
know Sheffel Wensy's future.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I mean, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
When somebody goes into administration, it's never one hundred percent
safe because you still got to agree on the selling rights, right,
so there is a risk that it just goes into
liquidation on the back of that. Then the club will
be out the league and have to basically be a
Feenix club rebook birth itself. But we don't know which
(02:43):
way he's going to be shaping this potential self. Now
we know that there's only as the stadium rights, and
obviously we know he owns the team rights.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
So.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
There's still a bit of a way to go. Now
you say twenty eight days, yes, traditionally it's twenty eight
days from an administrator, but they can apply for it
to be extended if they want to. We've seen that
in previous cases with Derby County et cetera, et cetera.
If there's interested buyers that come to the table and
they're king, then it's a negotiation. So that could take
as long as it takes, really.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
But Cheffin Chefs is a big brand. It's it's a
big brand.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
It's got a huge, you know, consumer base, so I
don't I can't see there being short of a few
interested parties.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Now.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
The problem is is that it needs so much innovation,
it needs so much investment. The stadium has run down,
the squad is that it's band minimum, and obviously there's
debt associated to it. So you know you're coming in
to buy that club, you're going to be having the
part with probably half a billion pound if you're back
to in a new stadium, and then get the squad
(03:52):
up to being competitive level, clear your debts. And obviously
the other thing I haven't concluded it is the training ground.
The training ground is completely run down as well, so
it is a complete new project. But on the sign
in the same time, it's got so many attractive parts
to it that it really will be an attractive proposition
for somebody. And you know, if I was to say
(04:15):
to you, you know, which clubs belong in the Top
League because of their history, because of their metrics, fan base,
et cetera, then you know, shefferl Wednesday would be in
that conversation. It's got so much history, et cetera. So
I think this could be a turning point for the better,
no doubt about it. But there's still a few EPs
to go backwards.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
First topic number two, and it was a topic that
on Monday Morning show we spent a good twenty minutes
on and I know it will surprise you, tongue firmly
planted in cheek that it was about Atlanta United's best
friend John Texter and the new news that is a
(04:52):
new reports that are associated with him where he basically
said tell you what into an imaginary room, has a
conversation with folks Son, the owner of Wolves, and is like,
tell you what I want to buy you. We haven't
talked about this at all. I'm walking in the door.
I want it to be cash and shares of like
(05:13):
one fifty and two fifty for like four hundred million
or so. And Folkson didn't take too kindly to that
because they would have liked to have, you know, maybe
had a conversation first. And now they want to seek
outside investment to help them out. John Texter seems to be,
you know, hell bent on having this one, you know,
now added to the portfolio where we have all these
(05:34):
discussions that Matt Slater had at the Athletic about Eagle
two point zero and going public and stock exchanges and stuff,
and all of this going on, while apparently he now
and this is stuff that we've cycled through in the past.
Eagles Mainlander Ares management, according to Matt Slater, has been
(05:55):
trying to draw back four hundred and twenty five million
US that it loan Detects in twenty twenty two to
buy Leon. He's given Aries most of the proceeds from
his sale of his Palace Shares forced to accept the
imposition of an independent director at Eagle to oversee Aris
interests elsewhere in the group. That director stepped down, replaced
by another insolvency expert. Aries in Texter are discussing whether
(06:19):
it's best for them to divorce. Perhaps Texter keeps both
the Fogo Aris gets Leon. Texter has another disagreement with
Iconic and last week in Florida, it was decided that Florida.
The judge in Florida said, not my purview, that's not
my geography. It's got to be done in England. So
seventy five million with Iconic and Eagle, and it's now
(06:41):
in England. Can you sort this out or is it
sort outable?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, look,
there's a media like to create a narrative which is
a lot worse than what it is.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So going back to the ares one, Yes, there's a
significant amount of money that Areas have given Eagle Football Holdings,
especially for the acquisition of Leon as you highlighted. But
you know, in return for that four hundred million, the
breakdown of the only ship there is only roughly about
six percent that they've got if that so in theory,
(07:15):
out of the whole Eagle Football Holdings ownership breakdown, it's
very very hard for them to force a sell because
Eagle Football Holdings is made up of one, two, three, four, five.
So I've got it in front of me five, six, seven, eight, nine, eleven,
sorry fifty six. Here, I'm going at twenty different organization right,
(07:36):
and there is management has got five or six actually
six of those companies in there, but if you add
its total steak, it's less than one two five point
three percent. Now, the biggest stakeholders are Iconic Sports, which
has got one of its lawsuits out with them, and
then you've got Michel Kang who's got another six percent,
(07:58):
and then you've got lots of other are.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Investors. And another significant investor is Elmwood Eagle.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Now these guys have a lot of voting power, and
it's John Texter and them that they seem to be
quite solid. And then the other one, which has got
like four or five companies in this Eagle Holdings, is
Monroe Capital. Okay, so two companies there that between them
have about eleven percent of the voting rights, and if
you put that with John Texter's sixty five percent, then
(08:29):
they've got seventy six together. And you know, going back
to Areas Management, they've actually agreed to defer all payments
for another year, so that's been settled. They're happy to
lay back for another twelve months. So I appreciate what
Matt saying, but he's just, you know a little bit
off there in the fact that could they hold it
over to Leon or twelve months down the line. They
(08:50):
could If John Texter doesn't refinance, then all sorts of conversations.
But what John is trying to do is stay relevant, right,
He's trying to stay relevant. Knows that Wolves are looking
for investment, and yes, they've have been opened and sort
of suggested that they're up to giving away forty nine percent. Now,
I tried to buy their women's team last year and
(09:12):
we was offered forty nine percent, but we wanted fifty
one percent and they weren't interested in that any shape
or form. So I know that you know they are
looking for that investment. But also, I mean, if you
read that same article, Matt will also say that they've
been in discussions with five or six other championship clubs
as well. So he needs an English club because he
wants to float it right, he wants to fly Eagle
(09:33):
Football holding two point zero.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Now people are saying to me, where's he getting the
money from?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Well, Marinakas is definitely operating in the shadows with him,
so I wouldn't be surprised if he's being funded with
that because obviously part of the two point oh launch
wars with the Marinakis group as well. They want a
South American club, I Brazil, Potti Fargo, Bottle Fargo wants
some clubs in Europe to be able to bring the
(09:58):
Brazilian players over, and obviously ACAS has got the Victoria
group as well, and then ideally you want a championship
club to be able to feed those players into to
allow them time to grow. And then you know, obviously
it's cheaper to buy a championship club than it is
to buy a four hundred million pounds take in a
Premier League club and you're gonna have a lot of
change out of that. So yes, you know these conversations
(10:22):
are happening. I think John's trying to stay relevant in
the media. He's trying to make it build up some
momentum for me stakeholders to say, look that I'm still active,
I'm still looking for clubs in England. Yes, we put
in a bid for Wolves, but was it official or
was it just media leaking something that wasn't official as
it Peede Wolves off. Yes, because it wasn't through the
official channels. But Wolves are looking for investment, right, so
(10:45):
that's no secret. There there's more in this one, John,
There's more in that one. And John text is not
going away, right okay?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And you know I know that you in the past
have mentioned Fubo TV, And there are the other elements
of the portfolio of John Texter, which means that people
are attracted to to continue to have business with a
gentleman like that So taking that as that recent example,
and what we've always tried to say after the conversations
with you, when you see a situation like this, look
(11:13):
at the entire portfolio of an individual. Don't just look
at the sports and entertainment element of this. Find out
what else is going on with that individual and see
where there might be interest and longer term investment and
playing a long game would help out that investor that
wants to come to the money in the short term
that would be headed towards sports.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah, exactly. I mean, these guys they know how to
run business.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
So I'm not saying they know how to run sports organizations,
but these guys know how to run business. You know,
they're billionaires for a reason. There's two sayings. You don't
become a billionaire about one knowing what you're doing, and
then the other saying is you don't become a billionaire
about doing some crooked work in the meantime. So, you know,
John Texter is taking all those boxes at the moment
right He's showing his creativity and he's showing that he
(11:56):
knows how to navigate some shortcomings as well.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Fair play to.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Number three is now, when when you had these three
terms together in a sentence. I was instantly like spidy
sensors were going what you had in the same sentence,
mco infiltration and mafia all in the same sentence. That
I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing when
all three of those are in the same sentence. What
(12:23):
is going on here?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yes, I mean, listen, I don't think it is much
of a surprise that the mafia have been connected to
Italian football clubs, right they use it as a process
to main laundering money, to access money, et cetera. But
it was actually come to our attention that what we
have seen is the jutical administration in Italy. Now they've
(12:46):
now taken control of Bair Holdings, but it's a club
they've actually taken control of, which is s s u
vest Bia, which playing Seriah B.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But it's also part of bear Holding.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
That Stabilia is fifty two percent owned by BurrH Holdings
and that's led Annual James McCrory, and then you've got
Andrea Lungela who's balty a percent, but he was pretty
much a primary owner until twenty five when Burrough Holdings
acquired that fifty two percent. Anyway, the Judical Administration say
(13:21):
that there's been long time association with the Camora map
and they found conclusive evidence that they have been control
rolling the matchday ticket, in season tickets, catering, food and beverage, concession,
stadium contracts, cleaning, security, maintenance, healthcare, protection.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Money and travel service.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
So there was a few areas they haven't Now there's
a few areas they haven't controlled, but you know, the
pretty much they control and everything. So what we're suggesting
is that while we takes up to about fifty percent
of their annual revenue and a lot of that is
going through the Camorra mafia. Now Italians are the juticals
system of saying, look, this has been.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Going on a long term and you played ignorance to it.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
We're not accusing anyone in the club here with any
criminal activity, but you've just definitely turned a blind and
you haven't done anything about it. And you could appreciate,
Bobby haven't done anything about it. We're not going to
leave any time. So the Judical Department of coming and
they've taken control of the club now and they're going
to be running the operations side.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So I you trying to bring in new contractors.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
But I don't think that's going to be as easy
as it sounds, because there's no doubt the mafia will
be controlling its rivals or its local areas.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
In the meantime as well.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
But looking into this a little bit further than I've
don a little article on this on LinkedIn, and this
is the third club this year that the judical administration
team has possessed. And there's another club in Seriah C
which is Quatrone obviously not pronounced the correct way here,
but they've been well invested that they've been in portraded
(15:00):
by the Calabrian mafia for ten years now, since twenty
and fifteen. And then you've got Foggi Kelcio nineteen twenty,
which is also another Serrea C club and they've been
infiltrated by the Foggier of mafia. And that's basically intimidation
and expulsion from around twenty businesses are associated to the
(15:21):
football club, you know, and if we look back at this,
look some Milan Asimlan have bad connections with mafia.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Palmer I've had connections with the mafia, you.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Know, They're not the only ones. There's probably a whole
list of clubs, et cetera that go on. But the
point of all of this is how much money has
been taken from the football Italian ecosystem just because of
organized crime.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And you know, I don't.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Want to leave this and make this an Italian problem
because this like to go Iu put on LinkedIn, and
actually some people have actually responded to this and said, look,
this is just not an Italian thing. This actually happens
in Brazil, This actually happens in Portugal, this actually happens
in Eastern European and because organized crime is a global thing, right, so,
and they used clubs, multi club ownership models, there's a
way of laundering money. So you know, last year I
(16:06):
was asked to do a session with Interpol right looking
at how these organized crimes can use multi club ownership
models as a way of filtering that money, you know,
with limited detection. So there's definitely a vehicle for then.
But yeah, definitely come to me. But at the same time,
I just want to pick this up our holdings and
(16:26):
not in it. Do believe that they know something more
than what they're letting on because actually there was a
couple of weeks ago, right that they actually change the
way that their company was structured. I'll just get out
the exact information here because I want to make sure.
So they took a business pivot, right, So they changed
(16:49):
their sports MVO company from a Salana blockchain, changing its
ticket from a Breyer to an s l MT in
September twenty five. This is not a coincidence, right. They
knew that this was coming and they anticipated bigger problems
in their portfolio. So yes, they took a hit on
the shares, but they started to climb back up. Now
I'm using a different market, but ultimately they're going to
(17:12):
leave themselves open to further investigations from NASDAK where they're
listing as listed to potentially some of those key individuals
are going to be scrutinized even further.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
But yeah, it's interesting, That's all I can say on
that moment.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah. Yes, so looking at Brera Holding company listed, you know,
courtesy of our friends at the wikipedias. Mco focused in
sports offices in Milan and Dublin, currently own four association
football clubs and a volleyball club traded on the NASDAK,
world's first publicly traded multi club sports ownership group, which
(17:48):
is and that's as of March of twenty four and
it goes back to Dan mclory as you mentioned with them.
So the clubs that they are tied to. You mentioned
Brera and you mentioned Uvestabia in the in the Italian pyramid,
you have Brera Stromichica, which is in Macedonia. You have
Brera Ilic which is in Mongolia, and you also have
(18:13):
WFC to Varia Brera Stromichka as well. So you have
two Macedonian clubs, one one that we know in the
first division, another one that still apparently I guess just
exists in name only, and then you go to Mongolia
and two in Italy, which is that's that's a that's
an interesting mix. I'll just use the word interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah, They've also got a volleyball club in Italy as
well there as well, so they're not they've got a
multi sports organization as such.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And what they have done is, you know, they've bought these.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Lower level clubs and they changed the names et cetera,
to unify the branding, et cetera. But as I said,
Stadia has maintained it's in terms of its identity, it
is maintained identity separate from the branding. But that's because
obviously they don't own one hundred percent of the club,
and obviously we have seen a lot of European clubs
(19:06):
they're very protect of their image branding, So I understand that.
But you know, the point is here, Yeah, you know,
those countries are not necessarily have rigid checks, right, So
if they're not having those regular checks and they're not
being scrutinized by wider governing bodies, then you know, it's
(19:27):
probably a lot easier to filter money through, carry money
through where they have the ways they want to do.
What I'd be interested in is looking at the movement
of players within there.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Et cetera.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Looking at the average gate receied stadium tickets to see
if they're actually genuine, because that's one way that you
can fabricate money, you know, is make out that you
sold ten thousand season tickets, but you're only average in
two and a half thousand, you know, and then the
questions of mark of you know where the other seven
and a half thousand. But you know, there are sort
of tactics that any club can sort of navigate. We've
(19:59):
seen in the Premier League, right because in the Premier League,
for example, giving off track here. But you know that
they have contracts, so they have to have high stadium utilizations,
so it's as high as like ninety six ninety eight percent. Now,
if clubs don't have that, they have to prove that
they've sold those tickets for that day because you can't
guarantee that everyone turns up. So what a lot of
(20:19):
the owners do is that they buy the missing seats,
so people that day they buy the missing seats because
they need to make sure matchday revenue is that it's
highest in order for them to meet psgules. Right, So
that's a tactic that can be used in and manipulated
in other ways. So I wouldn't be surprised if mafia
organized crime is using that tactic to say, Look, we've
actually got ten thousand season to get old.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Is one. Not everyone turns up every week. There's just life,
you know.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
However, we've got this money coming through the system, so
there's nothing that organizations can do about that, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Topic last then it has to do with alphabet soup
and the renaming of things, and I thought it was interesting.
It's like, okay, we're going to call ourselves. I think
that they're heading to east. Now that's the new one.
Right they were from one name and they're now the ECA.
Is that is that the right direction on that one?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
ECA was the European Club Association, which was rebranded in
I think two thousand and eight. Around that time, they
was like the G fourteen, a representation of elite the
wealthiest clubs in Europe. But they've just rebranded now to
I think it's like European Football Clubs Association. Because look
(21:29):
what the ECA were there was a representation of the
world's elite clubs, but it was like a closed shop
in terms of its governance. Now, if you were rich
and you earned your club owned so much money, then
you was entitled to tier one and Tier one gave
you voting rights. And then what we saw was at
the lesser clubs, they was invited to subscribe, but they
(21:49):
never had any voting rights. And then we saw another
union form last year which was like Union of European
Clubs and it was for the voice for the smaller,
smaller club basically, and it was like they were saying
one vote, one membership, et cetera. And that grew quickly
over time and then the ECA, so actually we need
to restructure what we're doing here because if we don't,
(22:11):
we're going to probably lose our power. Now, the ECA
won't lose his power because obviously one it's represented by
the wealthiest clubs and we know that money talks. But
what they did do is they changed their membership quite
quickly and now they've opened it up to all the
clubs in the top leagues across the fifty five European
nations and that has roughly eight hundred members in there,
(22:32):
and it's probably the brainchild of Khalifa. Actually, the phg Stroke,
current ECA president, probably done himself the world of good
for the next FIFA presidency.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I think he's going to be a strong candidate for that.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But politically, what it just means, well, it still means
that ECA controls the commercial operations of European football. They
would have a big saying what that looks like at
FIFA on the global tournaments and any new tournaments that
are up and coming. But what they are now is
a bit more reflective of the European landscape rather than
just the rich club So there's a modern adjustment that
(23:08):
was needed. But I'm not too sure it's going to
have much of a sway in terms of the way
it's reflected because the big clubs are always going to
control football right under the table.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
They do. It's just there's one thing that happens on
the shop floor.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
But we're not privy too, is what those conversations are
behind closed doors or messages that are exchanged under the table,
and we know, like for example, in England, Liverpool Man
United control football and what the rest do is what
they want them to do, you know. And people will say, well,
that's a bit of a harsh thing to say, but
that is it's just the way football has been for
many years, right and people just have to accept that.
(23:46):
They accepted, but it's just the way it is. It's
just the way football is. Certain clubs control it, you know,
Real Madrid control Spanish football. If they want something to happen,
they have a word with the royal family who are
their prime packers, and all changes.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Strange how that works, Absolutely great to see my friend.
As always, I love it when we can educate everyone
on this side of the Atlantic about what's going on
on the other side of the Atlantic and how it
impacts both sides. As we're growing the game here and
it's established overseas and now economics and Vulcan chess and
trying to figure things out in three dimensions. It's always
(24:24):
great to see you, my friend. Thanks again. We'll do
this again next week and we will continue the discussions
and getting smart when it comes to MCOs and everything
going on and how it all interlinks. Great to see you,
my friend. Will see you soon.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Thank you,
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