October 14, 2024 • 26 mins
In this episode of the podcast Josh Asker the editor of 'The Socialist,' explains the tactics and strategies needed to build a mass movement against the far right.
Socialism 2024
Get your tickets for socialism here: www.socialism.org.uk
Do you want to be part of building the socialist opposition that we need to end austerity, poverty, climate crisis, racism and discrimination, and war?
Taking place on Saturday 9 and Sunday 10 November, the Socialism 2024 weekend will arm you with the ideas to fight back under the Starmer government against the capitalist system it defends.
Socialism 2024 will be taking place only days after Rachel Reeves’ autumn budget which will show Labour’s plans to make the working class pay for the crisis of the capitalist system while the rich get richer.
Join hundreds of trade unionists, students, community campaigners, and those who just want to find out about socialist ideas to discuss and debate ideas to change the world.
The centrepiece of the event will be the main rally on the Saturday evening where you will hear from leading socialists. There will be over 40 workshops running throughout Saturday and Sunday on all sorts of topics. And there will be closing rallies on the Sunday afternoon.
Smash racism
The large counter-protests on 7 August pointed to the potential to build an anti-racist movement. We must challenge attempts by racists and the populist and far right to take advantage of the anger at Starmer’s attacks on living standards.
The workshops in this theme at Socialism 2024 are an opportunity to look at the ideas needed to do that and include:
You can’t have capitalism without racism: The origins of racism and the struggle to end it today
Capitalism and Islamophobia
After the riots: the role of the trade unions in a Community Defence Stewards organisation
Further Reading:
Lessons from the Fight against the Far Right:
The working class has a long history of mobilising to resist attempts by far-right forces to attack and intimidate our communities. The Socialist Party and its predecessor Militant has a long history of taking part in those struggles, including at times playing a leading role.
In all these struggles, the fight to stop the far right is completely bound with the fight for a socialist alternative, and mobilising the working class to fight for decent jobs and homes, fully funded services, and all our communities need.
https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/130801/02-10-2024/lessons-from-the-fight-against-the-far-right/
The first lightning flashes – and what to do
One month after Sir Keir Starmer’s Labour party was ‘swept to power’ by a paltry 20% of the electorate – the lowest support base of any government since the introduction of universal male suffrage in 1918 – violent protests and riots, instigated by far-right groups, broke out across the country. For those trapped in asylum-seekers’ hostels or mosques under brutal attack from gangs of rioters, the experience was terrifying. More generally, many Black, Asian and Muslim people feel that their safety is increasingly under threat. Tell Mama, a monitoring group tracking Islamophobic hate crimes, reported a five-fold increase in threats to Muslims compared to the same time last year.
https://socialismtoday.org/the-first-lightning-flashes-and-what-to-do
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Socialism, the Marxist podcast from the
Socialist Party. Our podcast aims to understand,
explain and prepare us all for the fight for socialism.
It's produced by members and party activists.
Don't miss an episode. Hit subscribe wherever you get
your podcasts. Thanks for listening.
(00:23):
Hello and welcome to this episode of the podcast.
We'll be talking today to Josh Asker, editor of the Socialist
Paper, about how to combat the far right.
One month after Keir Starmer's Labour Party was swept to power
by a paltry 20% of the electorate, the lowest support
base of any government since theintroduction of universal male
(00:46):
suffrage in 1918, violent protests and riots instigated by
far right groups broke out across the country in August.
For those trapped in asylum seekers, hotels or mosques under
brutal attacks from gangs of rioters, the experience was
terrifying. This episode of the podcast will
(01:07):
outline the tactics and strategies needed to combat the
rise of the far right. And if you want to be a part of
building the socialist opposition then we need to end
racism, austerity, poverty, discrimination, the climate
crisis and war that you should get a ticket to.
Socialism 2024 which is taking place on Saturday the 9th and
(01:30):
10th of November. Socialism 2024 will army with
their ideas to fight back under the Starmer government against
the capitalist system it defends.
Socialism 2024 will be taking place only days after Rachel
Reeves Autumn Budget, which willshow Labour's plans to make the
working class pay for the crisisof the capitalist system while
(01:53):
the rich get richer. So join hundreds of trade
unionists, students, community campaigners and those who just
want to find out more about socialist ideas to discuss and
debate the ideas that are neededto change the world.
The centrepiece of the event will be the main rally on the
Saturday evening where you'll hear from leading socialists,
(02:16):
but there will also be over 40 workshops running throughout
Saturday and Sunday on all sortsof topics.
So don't miss the Socialist event of the year.
Get your tickets now at www.socialism.org.uk.
Hi Josh, thanks for joining me today.
So what is your view of the August events and what do they
(02:40):
represent? Well, for really a thorough
analysis of what the Socialist Party thinks of the events of
August afterwards. What's going to happen in
broader political perspectives Then the place to go is to the
September issue of Socialism Today and it's feature article,
the First Lightning Flashes and What to do.
(03:01):
That article discusses, you know, in a rounded out way, what
some of the factors that led to the far right protests, the
riots and the attacks that happened in August, the response
to it, and what the response needs to be.
So really in answering in shorthand and verbally, then you
(03:23):
can only give, you know, a kind of impression of some of those
points to say what what's absolutely clear is the effects
of the attacks that happened in August was, you know, an
enormous fear of violence amongst, you know, people who
are from black and Asian or Muslim background, real terror
(03:47):
and fear of leaving their homes.We have, we had our own members
who are Speaking of family members who were, you know,
literally staying indoors, not leaving the house for fear of
far right attacks which were getting unprecedented press
attention day after day. And in reality it was, you know,
(04:07):
the far a small number of far right activists exploiting the
murder of children in Southport for their own cynical political
aims of stirring up division, ofpitting working class people
against each other and spreadingthe racist and Islamophobic
Islamophobic hate. You know, they were aided the
(04:28):
far right by the atmosphere thatwas already created throughout
the general election and beforehand by the establishment
capitalist parties of all colours really, who had been
spreading anti migrant rhetoric,the Tories with their small
boats and Rwanda legislation. Political theatre aimed at
stirring division. Keir Starmer's comments about
(04:51):
people from Bangladesh not having rights to come here as
asylum seekers in the lead up tothe general election.
And obviously, you know, the most extreme version of all of
those reformed, the more populist right version of what
Tories and Labour have been putting forward, you know,
leading on anti migrant rhetoricand, you know, potentially
(05:12):
giving confidence to those who hold more extreme views.
Giving airtime, you know, which the likes of Nigel Farage were
given ample airtime by, you know, the capitalist media to
spread those ideas. But there was there were also
one of the reasons why, you know, the events exploded in the
(05:32):
way that they do is because there's such combustible
material that exists in society.The huge alienation, the whole
layers of the working class experience from, you know,
politics from any kind of say insociety, from, you know, their
lives at work and the rest of it.
And complete and utter lack of trust in the establishment of
(05:56):
all shades of police, you know, levels of like social services,
of politicians and more. But in response to all that,
what we also saw was, you know what hopefully everyone can
remember that is the massive protests on the 7th of August in
(06:18):
opposition to what went on. I was phoning a contact who
wants to join the Socialist Party yesterday evening.
And one of the things we spoke about was his, you know, the
sense of feeling, of relief, of inspiration that he felt when he
viewed, you know, the reports ofwhat was coming out of
(06:38):
Wolframstowe. And also, you know, from
Newcastle to to Kent, Surrey, you know, the whole length and
breadth for the country in response to the attacks,
ordinary working class people mobilizing, showing their
widespread revulsion at the ideas that the far right
activists have been putting forward in the violence that
there's that have been carried about.
(07:01):
And you know, we're confident that that is the mainstream
viewing society. And actually, you know, some
evidence of the fact that even the right wing press have to
reflect a popular mood. The headline the day after, on
8th of October of August of the Daily Mail, one of the most
rabid right wing capitalist newspapers was the night anti
hate marches face down thugs. They were forced to reflect a
(07:23):
popular mood. The fact that these ideas and
those actions are completely rejected by ordinary people.
And I think we also have to, youknow, put into proportion the
scale of the people, of the numbers who were attending these
events. You know, hundreds of thousands,
you know, in total, possibly over a million individuals have
(07:45):
been engaged in some form of political activity in opposition
to what Israel's doing in the Middle East.
Compare that to the maximum 15,000 individuals even.
That's including just periphery standards by you might love a
stone or shout out to China or whatever.
Not the core organized participants of the far right
who took place in those August events.
(08:07):
Historically in the Socialism Today article makes this point,
but far right organizations are weak and fragmented compared to,
you know, what's existed in the past.
The National Front in the 1970's, the BNP in the 90s and
you know, even the British Union, the Fascist in the 1930s,
for example, it uses as that, you know, the BNP which existed,
(08:30):
you know, in the dying days of the last Labour government in
2009, it had 57 councillors and two members of the European
Parliament, you know, the far right, you know, the fascist
origins. And the British National Party
was, you know, had, you know, certain size and weight in
(08:51):
society. You know that that doesn't exist
to the same level today. That's not to say the dangers
aren't huge for it to grow. And you know, it's the task of
the workers movement and of socialists to do everything they
can to oppose, oppose those ideas and organisations from
getting any foothold amongst theworking class.
(09:12):
But we're also confident that, you know, the working class is
strong in comparison. We've had the biggest social
movement of the last two years being the Gaza protests, you
know, as I said, hundreds of thousands strong.
And also the strike wave, which for hundreds of thousands of
workers, you know, from all backgrounds, fighting against
what a real enemy is, the capitalist bosses trying to
(09:36):
drive down our pay through inflation, rising prices and so
on. Nice.
Thanks, Josh. So what does need to be done to
oppose the far right when they mobilize?
When the far right mobilises to threaten working class
communities or to spread their ideas to get an airing and so
(09:57):
on, then they have to be faced down by the organised working
class, by those who oppose thosedisgusting, divisive and
dangerous ideas. The 7th of August was, you know,
most people saw that mobilising by force of number is an
effective way to challenge the far right.
It gave huge confidence to people like that person I was
(10:19):
speaking to on the phone last night that, you know, our side
is, is correct and in a majorityview.
There's also an example in this week's copy of The Socialist
where there's a report written by a comrade Socialist Party
(10:39):
member in in Hull who's an organiser as part of the Trades
Council there. In August the far right
organised a rally and there was looting and and and attacks
throughout the city centre. When they have tried to mobilise
again last weekend, then the Trade Council organised a
massive counter demo outnumbering the far right.
(11:02):
But it's really summed up in, well, I think it's a fantastic
picture that accompanies that article.
Trade union organised stewards forming a barrier in front of a
handful of right wing folks, giving space for politics that
can answer all of the ills of society to be put to, you know,
(11:24):
a crowd of workers who are angryabout what's going on in
society, offering a genuine way forward.
And that's an example of, you know, the kind of tasks that
need to be completed. Going back more historically
then in the issue before of the Socialist, then we had a centre
(11:45):
page feature, which you'll be able to find on the Socialist
Party website called Lessons from the fight against the Far
Right, which, you know, has details really of historic
struggles that, you know, Socialist Party members have
been engaged in against far right organisations, largely
dealing with, you know, large St. protests that far right have
(12:08):
organised. And the aim, you know, where
possible, and this outlines there is that the far right
should be stopped from marching if in particularly if they're
trying to March through working class communities or threaten
our communities and organisations.
And all of the articles actuallyshow that there's usually in
(12:32):
these cases a battle over whether or not that should be
the approach that's taken. You know, in Cable St. in the
1930s, for example, it was the leadership of the Communist
Party, which, you know, had a massive base in working class
East London at the time, that was arguing that.
And as well as some of the Labour politicians too, was
(12:52):
arguing that, you know, ordinarypeople who are opposed to
fascist shouldn't go to Cable St. because they should, you
know, not give them air time. They should go to central London
to a rally and so on. On the day itself 300,000 people
in the East End of London refused and you know, you know,
backed by, you know, some of thelower down leadership of the
(13:16):
Communist Party and the rest of the trade union and workers
movement then physically prevented the fascists from
marching. Send them back in the other
examples, National Front, British National Party and
English Defence League on that, on that spread that we've had in
the newspaper, similar examples in many cases our own members
along with other trade genius and socialists arguing the
(13:39):
tactics necessary to drive the far right out of our communities
and under far streets. Another feature is the role that
the police usually play in these, in these events.
I don't know, Oscar, you might have picked up too, but in the
August events there was a definite mood amongst, you know,
(14:01):
some people, particularly like in the Muslim and black and
Asian communities and so on, whocorrectly had fears of
mobilizing to oppose the far right based on, you know, what
victimization the police might make out to ordinary black,
Asian, Muslim, particularly young people who are opposing
(14:23):
the far right. And that's obviously valid based
on the experience that those communities have of the police
and also on the experience of fighting the far right in the
report of the battle against theEnglish Defence League in
Waltham Forest in the 20 tens. Then it explains how, you know,
(14:45):
our members helped with the stewarding of that event in
opposition to somebody official organisers to help to work with
others to force back the police to physically go to confront
Tommy Robinson and and his followers who in the end had to
cow in fear. It was the police that were
trying to stop that from happening in the British
(15:06):
National Party's. That explains how the police
beat up protesters, our own members who were trying to
oppose the British National Party from marching through
southeast London at that time. The answer to those fears of
police victimization and the answer to the police aggression
(15:28):
itself is to have well organizedstewarding, which we argue the
trade union should play a central role in.
Not just because, you know, the trade union's a mass
organization with, you know, sixand a half, 7 million people as
members in Britain, but because,you know, they represent people
who are elected, who are trustedby workers.
(15:49):
They they're there clearly to represent the working class in
opposition to the police who are, you know, brought into
existence to protect the interests of the capitalist
bosses. And you know, that's what the
whole report in this week's paper depict.
It's trade unionists who were organizing to protect the
demonstration. But also they had to weigh up
and it's reported in the articleas well, that balance of forces
(16:12):
between the far right. How many of them are there?
How many anti anti racists are there?
What how many police are there? And in the event in Harvard at
the weekend, then the organisersmade the decision they wouldn't
have been the right move to, which would have been possible
by force of numbers to drive to far right up the streets because
of the potential for police, thesheer number of police in
(16:34):
attendance and the rest of it. And that was the decision that's
made. There's those kind of tactics
that need to be made democratically by trade
unionists and other democratically elected stewards
who are in charge of organising this.
They shouldn't be left to, you know, people who have no
connection to our working class communities, have no
accountability and so on, left to organise these things.
(16:54):
And it shouldn't be left, definitely shouldn't be left to
the police who are ultimately, at the end of the day there to
represent the interests of the bosses.
It's on to the question of how do we pose a political
alternative to Labour and the other capitalist politicians,
and how do we develop it? Well we've got to make the case
to people that if you're angry about the conditions that you're
(17:16):
facing, that your community is patient and you've got to engage
in political struggle, you know,in the trade unions which can
bring us together to fight for these things.
Like I said earlier, mass organisations in Britain
pre-existing already and they could lead a fight which is
campaigning for jobs and homes and services and making it clear
that we also need to fight against racism too.
(17:40):
And as part of that then you have to fight for the working
class type of political voice against the labour cuts and
austerity. The trade unions could be
saying, for example, if this wasa mass demonstration on the 26th
of October organised by the trade unions in opposition to a
Labour budget, then we could be saying the trade unions could be
(18:01):
saying to the Independent Alliance with Jeremy Corbyn in
it and the other MPs that have joined it.
This is what we want you to be fighting for, to fight on the
side of the working class against the bosses and you have
the support of our members to goand to go and conduct that
battle in Parliament. Look at the demo here.
These are backing, these people here are backing you to go into
(18:22):
Parliament and fight on our sideagainst the bosses in opposition
to Keir Starmer's Labour. You know, the trade unions
themselves could be saying to Labour MPs who are part of the
parliamentary groups of other trade unions, you know, winning
the getting at the moment the support of the trade unions
formally in Parliament. We could say we, you see that
(18:44):
motion that Corbyn and the Independent Alliance are putting
forward. We expect you to be back in that
if you seriously say that you'reon on the side of of the working
class, things like that can be steps towards working class
political representation and a new mass Workers Party that's
needed that could play a formation like that could play a
crucial role in undermining the ability of the far right to
(19:08):
spread their hatred and and and divisive ideas.
But even by just pointing the way forward, the next steps
towards developing the working class to have its own political
voice engaging in that struggle for it, pointing to the real
enemy of the Super rich bosses who are exploiting us rather
than, you know, attacking migrants using racism and other
(19:32):
reactionary ideas. Then then that's the kind of
task that that that needs to be done is a way to start to
undermine their ideas. That doesn't mean we have to
wait for such a party to be in existence, but the pricing, the
process of fighting for a new Mask Workers Party plays that
role. Too.
(19:53):
Thanks Josh. So we've got a big event coming
up, Socialism 2024, the Socialist Party hosted weekend
of discussion in London that's going to take place on the 9th
and 10th of November. And one of the discussions there
is titled after the riots, The Case for Trade Union Community
Defence Stewards Organization. And what is on the agenda for
(20:15):
that discussion? Well, in this discussion today,
we've already talked about organising against when the far
right mobilisers and mass mobilisations.
We've talked about a working class political alternative.
But how do communities themselves get organised about
attacks by far right folks? You know, we already saw in
(20:35):
August attacks on mosques, threatened attacks on asylum
seeker device centres and so on.And we actually already saw the
beginnings and developments of communities getting organised to
defend, you know, their own, their own buildings, their own
communities and so on. And that started to develop.
(20:56):
And in fact, community defence organisations have been a
feature of working class struggle, you know, for the, for
the whole history really againstthe far right.
For example, in the struggle against the National Front in
the 1970s, then you know, grassroots, a lot of the cases
youth LED organisations sprung up to fight against the National
(21:19):
Front or you know, even organising against attacks from
racist state forces. The Black Panther Party in the
US for example, a big part of itcoming into existence was for
community self defence against racist police oppression.
But organising that community defence is also part of the
process of drawing up a political program that addresses
(21:42):
the needs of the working class as a whole as well as the
specific communities, as well asaddressing the need for safety.
In the 1990s, then the SocialistParty, which was then militant
Labour, played a central role inopposing the BNP through the
Youth Youth Against Racism in Europe campaign.
(22:04):
It succeeded in forcing the BNP's headquarters out of
Welling in southeast London, andit forced them off Brick Lane,
which they were provocatively campaigning in East London.
And it we managed to achieve that by putting forward, you
know, demands which could mobilize young people and
working class people from all black backgrounds, you know,
(22:26):
under the slogan of jobs and homes, not racism, which, you
know, is an approach. And, you know, that kind of
formal slogan that we put forward today to making it clear
that you've got to mobilize to drive the far right racist folks
off our streets. But also we've got to fight for
a political alternative. And that's what we set out to
(22:48):
do. But part of that wasn't just
driving the fascists off the streets and mass demonstrations,
but organising for defence of communities that were being
attacked or threatened by thugs,for example, you know,
organising vigils outside the homes of families that are
threatened with attack, for example.
(23:09):
You know one tactic being you know, the whistle alarm system
which can be used, you know, by blowing a whistle in your
community and setting off a chain of whistles to mobilize
the community out of their frontdoors to take on a threat in the
community. It was borrowed from the anti
poll tax struggle which the Socialist Party was also played
(23:31):
a leading role in where it was used to mobilize on estates to
get people out of their homes totake on and challenge bailiffs
who are coming to chase down poll tax depth.
But really then, you know, that's that's some of the
grassroots developments that even without the Socialist Party
or anyone else putting forward, it will start to develop the
communities to be able to defendthemselves.
(23:55):
But how can it go the next step beyond, You know, there's whole
swathes of working class communities that have no trust
in the police to keep them safe.Quite rightly that's based on
their experience of racist policing, of racist institutions
and so on. And that's why the Socialist
Party fights for democratic working class control of the
police, which incidentally is a feature of another socialism
(24:17):
session titled Marxism in the State, The role of police.
But really any session that you go to at socialism, I would
argue is linked to the struggle against the far right and
against reactionary ideas. Because, you know, in different
forms and in different guises, those kind of ideas will be used
by the capitalist bosses to try to divide the working class and
(24:39):
to cut across the ability, our ability as a class to get
organised and and fight back. So fighting against the far
right is not one separate task aside from, you know, the need
to strengthen and consolidate working class organisations, the
need to struggle for socialist change, the need to win support
for a socialist program amongst working class people and youth.
(25:00):
And part of that is building theSocialist Party to carry out
those tasks and to help lead theworking class in the struggle to
bring about socialist change andsociety that's free from poverty
and oppression so that the far right can never raise its ugly
head again. That's great.
Thanks Josh. I'll see you next time.
(25:21):
Well, hopefully that episode hasgot you fired up and looking to
get active in campaigning for a challenge for the establishment
parties. To get in touch with the
Socialist Party to discuss beinga member and joining the fight
to change the world, visit www.socialistfire.org.uk.
(25:42):
If you're interested in Marxist ideas, take out a subscription
to The Socialist, our weekly paper, and Socialism Today, our
monthly magazine. We also recommend checking out
the Committee for a Workers International, the international
organization the Socialist Partyis a part of, with analysis of
(26:03):
world events. And for those listening in other
parts of the world, get in touchto join the fight for socialism
in your country. That's www.socialistworld.net.
Thanks for listening and see younext time.
Hello and welcome to Socialism, the Marxist podcast from the
Socialist Party. Our podcast aims to understand,
explain and prepare us all for the fight for socialism.
It's produced by members and party activists.
Don't miss an episode. Hit subscribe wherever you get
your podcasts. Thanks for listening.
(00:23):
Hello and welcome to this episode of the podcast.
We'll be talking today to Josh Asker, editor of the Socialist
Paper, about how to combat the far right.
One month after Keir Starmer's Labour Party was swept to power
by a paltry 20% of the electorate, the lowest support
base of any government since theintroduction of universal male
(00:46):
suffrage in 1918, violent protests and riots instigated by
far right groups broke out across the country in August.
For those trapped in asylum seekers, hotels or mosques under
brutal attacks from gangs of rioters, the experience was
terrifying. This episode of the podcast will
(01:07):
outline the tactics and strategies needed to combat the
rise of the far right. And if you want to be a part of
building the socialist opposition then we need to end
racism, austerity, poverty, discrimination, the climate
crisis and war that you should get a ticket to.
Socialism 2024 which is taking place on Saturday the 9th and
(01:30):
10th of November. Socialism 2024 will army with
their ideas to fight back under the Starmer government against
the capitalist system it defends.
Socialism 2024 will be taking place only days after Rachel
Reeves Autumn Budget, which willshow Labour's plans to make the
working class pay for the crisisof the capitalist system while
(01:53):
the rich get richer. So join hundreds of trade
unionists, students, community campaigners and those who just
want to find out more about socialist ideas to discuss and
debate the ideas that are neededto change the world.
The centrepiece of the event will be the main rally on the
Saturday evening where you'll hear from leading socialists,
(02:16):
but there will also be over 40 workshops running throughout
Saturday and Sunday on all sortsof topics.
So don't miss the Socialist event of the year.
Get your tickets now at www.socialism.org.uk.
Hi Josh, thanks for joining me today.
So what is your view of the August events and what do they
(02:40):
represent? Well, for really a thorough
analysis of what the Socialist Party thinks of the events of
August afterwards. What's going to happen in
broader political perspectives Then the place to go is to the
September issue of Socialism Today and it's feature article,
the First Lightning Flashes and What to do.
(03:01):
That article discusses, you know, in a rounded out way, what
some of the factors that led to the far right protests, the
riots and the attacks that happened in August, the response
to it, and what the response needs to be.
So really in answering in shorthand and verbally, then you
(03:23):
can only give, you know, a kind of impression of some of those
points to say what what's absolutely clear is the effects
of the attacks that happened in August was, you know, an
enormous fear of violence amongst, you know, people who
are from black and Asian or Muslim background, real terror
(03:47):
and fear of leaving their homes.We have, we had our own members
who are Speaking of family members who were, you know,
literally staying indoors, not leaving the house for fear of
far right attacks which were getting unprecedented press
attention day after day. And in reality it was, you know,
(04:07):
the far a small number of far right activists exploiting the
murder of children in Southport for their own cynical political
aims of stirring up division, ofpitting working class people
against each other and spreadingthe racist and Islamophobic
Islamophobic hate. You know, they were aided the
(04:28):
far right by the atmosphere thatwas already created throughout
the general election and beforehand by the establishment
capitalist parties of all colours really, who had been
spreading anti migrant rhetoric,the Tories with their small
boats and Rwanda legislation. Political theatre aimed at
stirring division. Keir Starmer's comments about
(04:51):
people from Bangladesh not having rights to come here as
asylum seekers in the lead up tothe general election.
And obviously, you know, the most extreme version of all of
those reformed, the more populist right version of what
Tories and Labour have been putting forward, you know,
leading on anti migrant rhetoricand, you know, potentially
(05:12):
giving confidence to those who hold more extreme views.
Giving airtime, you know, which the likes of Nigel Farage were
given ample airtime by, you know, the capitalist media to
spread those ideas. But there was there were also
one of the reasons why, you know, the events exploded in the
(05:32):
way that they do is because there's such combustible
material that exists in society.The huge alienation, the whole
layers of the working class experience from, you know,
politics from any kind of say insociety, from, you know, their
lives at work and the rest of it.
And complete and utter lack of trust in the establishment of
(05:56):
all shades of police, you know, levels of like social services,
of politicians and more. But in response to all that,
what we also saw was, you know what hopefully everyone can
remember that is the massive protests on the 7th of August in
(06:18):
opposition to what went on. I was phoning a contact who
wants to join the Socialist Party yesterday evening.
And one of the things we spoke about was his, you know, the
sense of feeling, of relief, of inspiration that he felt when he
viewed, you know, the reports ofwhat was coming out of
(06:38):
Wolframstowe. And also, you know, from
Newcastle to to Kent, Surrey, you know, the whole length and
breadth for the country in response to the attacks,
ordinary working class people mobilizing, showing their
widespread revulsion at the ideas that the far right
activists have been putting forward in the violence that
there's that have been carried about.
(07:01):
And you know, we're confident that that is the mainstream
viewing society. And actually, you know, some
evidence of the fact that even the right wing press have to
reflect a popular mood. The headline the day after, on
8th of October of August of the Daily Mail, one of the most
rabid right wing capitalist newspapers was the night anti
hate marches face down thugs. They were forced to reflect a
(07:23):
popular mood. The fact that these ideas and
those actions are completely rejected by ordinary people.
And I think we also have to, youknow, put into proportion the
scale of the people, of the numbers who were attending these
events. You know, hundreds of thousands,
you know, in total, possibly over a million individuals have
(07:45):
been engaged in some form of political activity in opposition
to what Israel's doing in the Middle East.
Compare that to the maximum 15,000 individuals even.
That's including just periphery standards by you might love a
stone or shout out to China or whatever.
Not the core organized participants of the far right
who took place in those August events.
(08:07):
Historically in the Socialism Today article makes this point,
but far right organizations are weak and fragmented compared to,
you know, what's existed in the past.
The National Front in the 1970's, the BNP in the 90s and
you know, even the British Union, the Fascist in the 1930s,
for example, it uses as that, you know, the BNP which existed,
(08:30):
you know, in the dying days of the last Labour government in
2009, it had 57 councillors and two members of the European
Parliament, you know, the far right, you know, the fascist
origins. And the British National Party
was, you know, had, you know, certain size and weight in
(08:51):
society. You know that that doesn't exist
to the same level today. That's not to say the dangers
aren't huge for it to grow. And you know, it's the task of
the workers movement and of socialists to do everything they
can to oppose, oppose those ideas and organisations from
getting any foothold amongst theworking class.
(09:12):
But we're also confident that, you know, the working class is
strong in comparison. We've had the biggest social
movement of the last two years being the Gaza protests, you
know, as I said, hundreds of thousands strong.
And also the strike wave, which for hundreds of thousands of
workers, you know, from all backgrounds, fighting against
what a real enemy is, the capitalist bosses trying to
(09:36):
drive down our pay through inflation, rising prices and so
on. Nice.
Thanks, Josh. So what does need to be done to
oppose the far right when they mobilize?
When the far right mobilises to threaten working class
communities or to spread their ideas to get an airing and so
(09:57):
on, then they have to be faced down by the organised working
class, by those who oppose thosedisgusting, divisive and
dangerous ideas. The 7th of August was, you know,
most people saw that mobilising by force of number is an
effective way to challenge the far right.
It gave huge confidence to people like that person I was
(10:19):
speaking to on the phone last night that, you know, our side
is, is correct and in a majorityview.
There's also an example in this week's copy of The Socialist
where there's a report written by a comrade Socialist Party
(10:39):
member in in Hull who's an organiser as part of the Trades
Council there. In August the far right
organised a rally and there was looting and and and attacks
throughout the city centre. When they have tried to mobilise
again last weekend, then the Trade Council organised a
massive counter demo outnumbering the far right.
(11:02):
But it's really summed up in, well, I think it's a fantastic
picture that accompanies that article.
Trade union organised stewards forming a barrier in front of a
handful of right wing folks, giving space for politics that
can answer all of the ills of society to be put to, you know,
(11:24):
a crowd of workers who are angryabout what's going on in
society, offering a genuine way forward.
And that's an example of, you know, the kind of tasks that
need to be completed. Going back more historically
then in the issue before of the Socialist, then we had a centre
(11:45):
page feature, which you'll be able to find on the Socialist
Party website called Lessons from the fight against the Far
Right, which, you know, has details really of historic
struggles that, you know, Socialist Party members have
been engaged in against far right organisations, largely
dealing with, you know, large St. protests that far right have
(12:08):
organised. And the aim, you know, where
possible, and this outlines there is that the far right
should be stopped from marching if in particularly if they're
trying to March through working class communities or threaten
our communities and organisations.
And all of the articles actuallyshow that there's usually in
(12:32):
these cases a battle over whether or not that should be
the approach that's taken. You know, in Cable St. in the
1930s, for example, it was the leadership of the Communist
Party, which, you know, had a massive base in working class
East London at the time, that was arguing that.
And as well as some of the Labour politicians too, was
(12:52):
arguing that, you know, ordinarypeople who are opposed to
fascist shouldn't go to Cable St. because they should, you
know, not give them air time. They should go to central London
to a rally and so on. On the day itself 300,000 people
in the East End of London refused and you know, you know,
backed by, you know, some of thelower down leadership of the
(13:16):
Communist Party and the rest of the trade union and workers
movement then physically prevented the fascists from
marching. Send them back in the other
examples, National Front, British National Party and
English Defence League on that, on that spread that we've had in
the newspaper, similar examples in many cases our own members
along with other trade genius and socialists arguing the
(13:39):
tactics necessary to drive the far right out of our communities
and under far streets. Another feature is the role that
the police usually play in these, in these events.
I don't know, Oscar, you might have picked up too, but in the
August events there was a definite mood amongst, you know,
(14:01):
some people, particularly like in the Muslim and black and
Asian communities and so on, whocorrectly had fears of
mobilizing to oppose the far right based on, you know, what
victimization the police might make out to ordinary black,
Asian, Muslim, particularly young people who are opposing
(14:23):
the far right. And that's obviously valid based
on the experience that those communities have of the police
and also on the experience of fighting the far right in the
report of the battle against theEnglish Defence League in
Waltham Forest in the 20 tens. Then it explains how, you know,
(14:45):
our members helped with the stewarding of that event in
opposition to somebody official organisers to help to work with
others to force back the police to physically go to confront
Tommy Robinson and and his followers who in the end had to
cow in fear. It was the police that were
trying to stop that from happening in the British
(15:06):
National Party's. That explains how the police
beat up protesters, our own members who were trying to
oppose the British National Party from marching through
southeast London at that time. The answer to those fears of
police victimization and the answer to the police aggression
(15:28):
itself is to have well organizedstewarding, which we argue the
trade union should play a central role in.
Not just because, you know, the trade union's a mass
organization with, you know, sixand a half, 7 million people as
members in Britain, but because,you know, they represent people
who are elected, who are trustedby workers.
(15:49):
They they're there clearly to represent the working class in
opposition to the police who are, you know, brought into
existence to protect the interests of the capitalist
bosses. And you know, that's what the
whole report in this week's paper depict.
It's trade unionists who were organizing to protect the
demonstration. But also they had to weigh up
and it's reported in the articleas well, that balance of forces
(16:12):
between the far right. How many of them are there?
How many anti anti racists are there?
What how many police are there? And in the event in Harvard at
the weekend, then the organisersmade the decision they wouldn't
have been the right move to, which would have been possible
by force of numbers to drive to far right up the streets because
of the potential for police, thesheer number of police in
(16:34):
attendance and the rest of it. And that was the decision that's
made. There's those kind of tactics
that need to be made democratically by trade
unionists and other democratically elected stewards
who are in charge of organising this.
They shouldn't be left to, you know, people who have no
connection to our working class communities, have no
accountability and so on, left to organise these things.
(16:54):
And it shouldn't be left, definitely shouldn't be left to
the police who are ultimately, at the end of the day there to
represent the interests of the bosses.
It's on to the question of how do we pose a political
alternative to Labour and the other capitalist politicians,
and how do we develop it? Well we've got to make the case
to people that if you're angry about the conditions that you're
(17:16):
facing, that your community is patient and you've got to engage
in political struggle, you know,in the trade unions which can
bring us together to fight for these things.
Like I said earlier, mass organisations in Britain
pre-existing already and they could lead a fight which is
campaigning for jobs and homes and services and making it clear
that we also need to fight against racism too.
(17:40):
And as part of that then you have to fight for the working
class type of political voice against the labour cuts and
austerity. The trade unions could be
saying, for example, if this wasa mass demonstration on the 26th
of October organised by the trade unions in opposition to a
Labour budget, then we could be saying the trade unions could be
(18:01):
saying to the Independent Alliance with Jeremy Corbyn in
it and the other MPs that have joined it.
This is what we want you to be fighting for, to fight on the
side of the working class against the bosses and you have
the support of our members to goand to go and conduct that
battle in Parliament. Look at the demo here.
These are backing, these people here are backing you to go into
(18:22):
Parliament and fight on our sideagainst the bosses in opposition
to Keir Starmer's Labour. You know, the trade unions
themselves could be saying to Labour MPs who are part of the
parliamentary groups of other trade unions, you know, winning
the getting at the moment the support of the trade unions
formally in Parliament. We could say we, you see that
(18:44):
motion that Corbyn and the Independent Alliance are putting
forward. We expect you to be back in that
if you seriously say that you'reon on the side of of the working
class, things like that can be steps towards working class
political representation and a new mass Workers Party that's
needed that could play a formation like that could play a
crucial role in undermining the ability of the far right to
(19:08):
spread their hatred and and and divisive ideas.
But even by just pointing the way forward, the next steps
towards developing the working class to have its own political
voice engaging in that struggle for it, pointing to the real
enemy of the Super rich bosses who are exploiting us rather
than, you know, attacking migrants using racism and other
(19:32):
reactionary ideas. Then then that's the kind of
task that that that needs to be done is a way to start to
undermine their ideas. That doesn't mean we have to
wait for such a party to be in existence, but the pricing, the
process of fighting for a new Mask Workers Party plays that
role. Too.
(19:53):
Thanks Josh. So we've got a big event coming
up, Socialism 2024, the Socialist Party hosted weekend
of discussion in London that's going to take place on the 9th
and 10th of November. And one of the discussions there
is titled after the riots, The Case for Trade Union Community
Defence Stewards Organization. And what is on the agenda for
(20:15):
that discussion? Well, in this discussion today,
we've already talked about organising against when the far
right mobilisers and mass mobilisations.
We've talked about a working class political alternative.
But how do communities themselves get organised about
attacks by far right folks? You know, we already saw in
(20:35):
August attacks on mosques, threatened attacks on asylum
seeker device centres and so on.And we actually already saw the
beginnings and developments of communities getting organised to
defend, you know, their own, their own buildings, their own
communities and so on. And that started to develop.
(20:56):
And in fact, community defence organisations have been a
feature of working class struggle, you know, for the, for
the whole history really againstthe far right.
For example, in the struggle against the National Front in
the 1970s, then you know, grassroots, a lot of the cases
youth LED organisations sprung up to fight against the National
(21:19):
Front or you know, even organising against attacks from
racist state forces. The Black Panther Party in the
US for example, a big part of itcoming into existence was for
community self defence against racist police oppression.
But organising that community defence is also part of the
process of drawing up a political program that addresses
(21:42):
the needs of the working class as a whole as well as the
specific communities, as well asaddressing the need for safety.
In the 1990s, then the SocialistParty, which was then militant
Labour, played a central role inopposing the BNP through the
Youth Youth Against Racism in Europe campaign.
(22:04):
It succeeded in forcing the BNP's headquarters out of
Welling in southeast London, andit forced them off Brick Lane,
which they were provocatively campaigning in East London.
And it we managed to achieve that by putting forward, you
know, demands which could mobilize young people and
working class people from all black backgrounds, you know,
(22:26):
under the slogan of jobs and homes, not racism, which, you
know, is an approach. And, you know, that kind of
formal slogan that we put forward today to making it clear
that you've got to mobilize to drive the far right racist folks
off our streets. But also we've got to fight for
a political alternative. And that's what we set out to
(22:48):
do. But part of that wasn't just
driving the fascists off the streets and mass demonstrations,
but organising for defence of communities that were being
attacked or threatened by thugs,for example, you know,
organising vigils outside the homes of families that are
threatened with attack, for example.
(23:09):
You know one tactic being you know, the whistle alarm system
which can be used, you know, by blowing a whistle in your
community and setting off a chain of whistles to mobilize
the community out of their frontdoors to take on a threat in the
community. It was borrowed from the anti
poll tax struggle which the Socialist Party was also played
(23:31):
a leading role in where it was used to mobilize on estates to
get people out of their homes totake on and challenge bailiffs
who are coming to chase down poll tax depth.
But really then, you know, that's that's some of the
grassroots developments that even without the Socialist Party
or anyone else putting forward, it will start to develop the
communities to be able to defendthemselves.
(23:55):
But how can it go the next step beyond, You know, there's whole
swathes of working class communities that have no trust
in the police to keep them safe.Quite rightly that's based on
their experience of racist policing, of racist institutions
and so on. And that's why the Socialist
Party fights for democratic working class control of the
police, which incidentally is a feature of another socialism
(24:17):
session titled Marxism in the State, The role of police.
But really any session that you go to at socialism, I would
argue is linked to the struggle against the far right and
against reactionary ideas. Because, you know, in different
forms and in different guises, those kind of ideas will be used
by the capitalist bosses to try to divide the working class and
(24:39):
to cut across the ability, our ability as a class to get
organised and and fight back. So fighting against the far
right is not one separate task aside from, you know, the need
to strengthen and consolidate working class organisations, the
need to struggle for socialist change, the need to win support
for a socialist program amongst working class people and youth.
(25:00):
And part of that is building theSocialist Party to carry out
those tasks and to help lead theworking class in the struggle to
bring about socialist change andsociety that's free from poverty
and oppression so that the far right can never raise its ugly
head again. That's great.
Thanks Josh. I'll see you next time.
(25:21):
Well, hopefully that episode hasgot you fired up and looking to
get active in campaigning for a challenge for the establishment
parties. To get in touch with the
Socialist Party to discuss beinga member and joining the fight
to change the world, visit www.socialistfire.org.uk.
(25:42):
If you're interested in Marxist ideas, take out a subscription
to The Socialist, our weekly paper, and Socialism Today, our
monthly magazine. We also recommend checking out
the Committee for a Workers International, the international
organization the Socialist Partyis a part of, with analysis of
(26:03):
world events. And for those listening in other
parts of the world, get in touchto join the fight for socialism
in your country. That's www.socialistworld.net.
Thanks for listening and see younext time.
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