January 23, 2024 • 47 mins
From the clattering coins of casino games to the complex coding at Netflix, our guest Sneha Inguva has a career narrative that's as unconventional as it is inspiring. Walking her cat Gatsby might be her quirky pastime, but it's her methodical approach to workplace challenges that sets Sneha apart. Tune in for a candid conversation where she unpacks her strategies for turning dissatisfaction into dialogue with management, and shares how jotting down thoughts, brainstorming solutions, and seeking second opinions can be transformative.
Recounting the days when the startup sparkle caught my eye, I reflect on my own evolution from an electrical engineering and economics graduate to a software developer. The journey was anything but linear, with stints in casino gaming and a fact-checking news venture, before settling into the more stable harbors of Digital Ocean and Fastly. Sneha and I delve into economics's pivotal role in our career choices, and how embracing mentorship and a back-to-basics approach to computer science fundamentals can underpin professional growth.
As we wrap up, Sneha sheds light on her big leap to Netflix, addressing common experiences like imposter syndrome and the weight of interviewing peers. We explore the cultural shift within Netflix, as the tech behemoth begins to balance its seasoned pro roster with fresh graduates and interns, all while navigating the treacherous waters of technical debt and structured engineering. Sneha's story isn't just one of career advancement; it's a roadmap for anyone aspiring to sculpt their professional journey, complete with the tools and mindset needed to thrive in the tech industry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Sneha Inguva (00:00):
I first write down all of my thoughts like what am
I not happy about?
And then maybe also try to comeup with a list of possible
solutions or do I need to make achange?
And then I often get a secondopinion.
If it can be a trustedcolleague on a different team,
(00:21):
maybe someone who's a little bitmore senior, and share the
Google Doc with them and have avideo call and talk through
these points.
It's very methodical, probablymaybe excessively methodical
sounding, but then from that Icome up with some key points
that I actually want to bring upand then try to and then just
(00:43):
schedule a meeting with amanager or a manager's manager
or maybe the adjacent manager ona different team as well, and
try to bring up all of thesepoints.
But I will say, going intothese conversations with no
preparation is definitely notthe way to do it.
I think writing things down andthen kind of honing what you're
(01:05):
going to say and then turningthat into key talking points so
you have a point from where youkick off the conversation helps
a lot, because I don't think alot of people or including
myself are good at ad hocconversations.
Tim Bourguignon (01:20):
Hello and welcome to Developers' Journey,
the podcast bringing you themaking of stories of successful
software developers to help youon your upcoming journey.
I'm your host, tim Boulgigno.
On this episode I receive Sniain Goova.
Snia is a software engineer innetworking at Netflix.
Before she entered the realm ofinfrastructure, cloud computing
(01:43):
and networking, she worked insome unusual areas like casino
gaming and 3D printed orthotics,to name only a few.
In her spare time she enjoysrock climbing and walking her
cat Gatsby, which is a greatname on the leash word for
casual neighborhood Jones Snia.
A warm welcome to her.
Sneha Inguva (02:05):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me here.
Tim Bourguignon (02:08):
Great name, really great name.
Did you really go with your caton the leash in neighborhood?
Sneha Inguva (02:13):
I do, I do.
He was famous in New Yorkbecause someone from BuzzFeed
wanted to interview us at somepoint, but I turned down the
interview request.
He doesn't like paparazzi.
Tim Bourguignon (02:27):
Fantastic story .
This is starting really well.
But before we come to yourstory, I want to thank the
terrific listeners who supportthe show.
Every month, you are keepingthe DevJourney lights up.
If you would like to join thisfine crew and help me spend more
time on finding phenomenalguests than editing audio tracks
(02:49):
, please go to our website,devjourneyinfo and click on the
Support Me on Patreon button.
Even the smallest contributionsare giant steps toward a
sustainable DevJourney journey.
Thank you, and now back totoday's guest, so Snia.
As you know, the show exists tohelp the listeners understand
(03:11):
what your story looks like andimagine how to shape their own
future.
So, as usual on the show, let'sgo back to your beginnings.
Where would you place the startof your DevJourney?
Sneha Inguva (03:20):
I would say the start of my DevJourney is
probably right after I graduatedcollege.
In a way, it's pretty basic,because there's software
engineers who come into softwareengineering, who have a
completely unexpected background, and then there's people who
study computer science and thenthere's the third category,
which is not computer sciencebut adjacent.
(03:41):
I was in that category, whichis, you could say I'm a bit of a
basic bitch when it comes tothat.
I studied electricalengineering and economics and
after I graduated I think atthat time in 2012, there just
were not that many hardwarestartups and I think I very much
drank the hustle culturestartup Kool-Aid at the time.
(04:07):
I mean, I've worked in startupssince then, but I think at that
time I was very much into thatand so I didn't see any
opportunities in hardware.
But I had written some C++ andtaken a few programming classes
in college.
So I ended up interviewing at abunch of places.
I really wanted to live in NewYork and ended up getting a job
(04:28):
at a casino gaming company whichwas very random, Basically slot
machine games.
We wrote Monte Carlosimulations to prove what the
return to player was.
Obviously, the house alwayswins.
But, you would be surprised thenumber of people that have tried
to argue with me about that andabout mathematical independence
(04:50):
, which is hilarious, but I getit.
I get where it's coming from.
It's like arguing about theMonty Hall problem or the Green
Eyed Monster paradox.
With math people it doesn'talways make sense.
So I get where it's coming from.
So I guess that was the startof the dev journey.
And then I worked at differentstartups for a few years, each
(05:14):
more weird than the last in someways, From the casino gaming
company.
After a year I realized Iwasn't particularly passionate
about designing slot machinegames.
I mean, we did go on some coolfield trips, I guess to Vegas.
Tim Bourguignon (05:33):
I did say yeah.
Sneha Inguva (05:34):
And places in New Jersey which were less exciting.
But actually the trips were alittle depressing, to be honest,
because day drinking in thecasino while watching people
play slot machine games forresearch was interesting To say
(05:54):
the least.
Interesting, to say the least.
I definitely worked with a lotof cool people on, mostly
mathematicians, so my colleagueswere amazing.
I think just the product wewere building is not something I
was passionate about.
So after a year I left to gowork at an ed tech company,
which was an incredibly chaotictime because they changed their
product seven times within sevenmonths and at that point I
(06:18):
decided that I felt like, assomeone who was still new to the
field of software engineeringand I think this is something
I've always considered in mycareer I was almost like
Benjamin butting and devolving.
So I wanted a place with alittle bit more stability.
But instead of seeking thatfirst, I quit to work on my own
startup, which was even lessstability, and that was
(06:41):
definitely interesting.
Initially I said colleague, myfriend and I wanted to start
something that related to news,basically creating a
browser-based annotation to factcheck news, which, of course,
in the decade since and witheach progressive election and or
worldwide situation, has becomemore and more important.
(07:04):
However, you can't actuallymake money Really.
Well, I mean you can becauseobviously those organizations
exist, but the field ofjournalism has gone through a
lot in the last decade.
I think what became apparent isthat, a it's very hard to
monetize and B I think there'sand this is something I've
(07:24):
realized going forward with anyfuture startups that I ever work
on where I'm one of the firstengineers you have to be on the
same page as your founders ofthe amount of time that you're
putting in and if any of you areleaving your job to work on it
full-time.
I think that also ended afterprobably a year and a half.
We did do journalism fellowshipand we were interviewing with
(07:48):
some accelerators, but I thinkwhen it came down to it, my
friend and I were not really onthe same page with how we wanted
to move forward.
So we decided to part ways andI interviewed and started and I
guess this is like anothercritical juncture of my career
path.
I interviewed at a bunch ofplaces.
I debated if I wanted to go intoengineering consulting, I
(08:12):
debated what exactly I wanted todo, but I think I interviewed
with someone at Digital Ocean,which is a Cloud company that
IPO'd, I think maybe two yearsago at this point, two or three
years ago which works in thesmall to medium business space.
I think it felt like thatoffered a bit more stability and
(08:34):
a bit more mentorship at thetime because, especially someone
without a background incomputer science who learned a
lot on the fly, I felt like Ineeded to really hone a lot of
my knowledge with algorithms thebasic stuff both that you
interview for but then also usein the workplace on occasion but
(08:57):
usually don't implementyourself.
So I wanted to get a betterunderstanding of CS fundamentals
but then also just gain abetter understanding of software
best practices.
I didn't think that wouldhappen at an engineering
consulting company.
I felt like that would happenat a more mature company.
So I ended up going to DigitalOcean, which they said they were
a startup, but they had like100 employees at the time.
(09:18):
I think I stayed with them forlike five years and they went
from like 100 to like a thousand, so that was super fun.
Tim Bourguignon (09:26):
Wow, Pretty cool.
Let me unpack a couple ofthings Going back to all the way
to the beginning.
You said you studied electricalengineering and economics.
Sneha Inguva (09:37):
Yeah.
Tim Bourguignon (09:37):
How did that mix come in?
Sneha Inguva (09:39):
I think economics just because I think it's an
important way of understandingthe world.
It's, I mean, even when you arebuilding.
Like the number of times in myengineering career that I have
had to make infrastructuredecisions or changes based on
how much like cloud spend we arehaving is frequent, especially
in this economy.
(10:00):
And so I think the economicsbit was because I was just
interested in bothmacroeconomics, microeconomics
and the philosophies ofinvesting.
Granted, you really learnnothing about actually investing
money in an undergraduateeconomics program.
You basically learn micro andmacro and that's about it and
maybe some econometrics.
But I think I just liked thewanting to understand the
(10:25):
economy and systems from thatperspective.
Tim Bourguignon (10:29):
Yeah, makes sense.
And when you are somehow in theearly stages of a startup,
everybody is responsible ofeconomics.
Everybody has to look on the,on the expenses.
Everybody has to be smart aboutit.
There's not your job and thatsays everybody's.
Sneha Inguva (10:44):
Although once again, ironically, I do think
that I do think that some ofthose skills, and even for
computer science too, there'sdefinitely discrepancy Even if I
had gotten a computer sciencedegree and I don't know an MBA
or whatever.
I guess applies to early stagestartups and actually being at
(11:07):
an early stage startup oractually being at a software
engineering company and part ofa team.
And I think a lot of computerscience programs at different
universities are acknowledgingthat and trying to bridge that
gap.
Tim Bourguignon (11:19):
Yes, I've seen this as well.
It's really healthy.
But I've seen the other wayaround as well talking to not
junior developers about how tomanage their own finances,
because it's not normal in oureconomy to have software
developers looking paycheck topaycheck at least not in Europe
and it was really surprising tohave to have that discussions
(11:40):
with people just to get themaway from just thinking money,
money, money, money, money allthe time and be focused on
something else, which is anyhow,when you, when you entered this
casino or slot machine vendingmachine slot machine company I'm
not sure there was a casino- Ithink you said CSF casino.
(12:02):
What did you do there?
Did you do algorithmdevelopment or did you have a
foot in infrastructure andnetworking already?
Sneha Inguva (12:08):
Not at all.
It was literally, I guess, justwriting, writing very simple
programs that would do asimulation of a particular slot
machine in order to prove thatthere would be like a 95% return
to to payer, meaning that ifsomeone spent a dollar, on
average in the long run theywould get 95 cents back.
(12:30):
And this has had to be done forregulatory purposes, because I
guess before I mean, I thinkthere is some kind of regulatory
commission for casino gamingyou need to prove that people in
fact will get this, this amountof money, for this particular
game.
And I think what's interestingis, you know, in the year that I
(12:52):
was there, initially the entirepremise was that we're only
designing games for slotmachines.
But I think there was somelegalization of online gaming in
New Jersey and select placesand I think also in Europe and
Macau.
I think online gaming is morelegal on online slot machines.
(13:15):
But then, aside from that,there was a popularity.
I mean, I don't know if yourecall the era where Facebook
apps were particularly popularand people would monetize, but
it's kind of risky to make yourentire business model based on
another social media company.
Tim Bourguignon (13:33):
Yes, it is One thing I find interesting.
You mentioned quite a few timesstability, while describing
having drunk the startupKool-Aid and going from one
startup to the next and evencreating your own company.
That doesn't really connect inmy mind.
Startups isn't stability.
It's being on a rocket that isgoing to work or maybe not, and
(13:57):
if it doesn't, you know, it wasa possibility at the beginning,
but that wasn't stability.
Did I miss this in you?
Sneha Inguva (14:05):
Oh no, that's 100% true, I think.
Right after I graduated collegeI think I felt oddly very
comfortable taking on theserisks and, I think, part of it.
I don't think you can deny theamount of privilege you have in
knowing that, first of all, theed tech startup I worked at
(14:27):
compensated me pretty well, so Ihad enough money to just live
off savings while working on mystartup, and then also the
knowledge that I did have afamily who would probably help
me if I came to the end of allof my savings.
But I will say I think it wasthat period that made me realize
that in the future, if I'm topursue another startup journey,
(14:51):
I think I want to get likereally confirmed that I have
product market fit and be a lotmore cognizant of both budgeting
, product market fit and riskreward and, I guess, the
opportunity cost of taking thatstep, because towards the end of
working on my own startup, Idefinitely went into debt and
then I was very frugal afterstarting at DigitalOcean.
(15:13):
So, yes, I think that'spartially why I was definitely
happy with the path I chose andthe lack of stability I had in
trying to pursue a bunch ofdifferent things.
But I think I came to a pointwhere I did want a bit more
stability, both financially and,I think, also just team wise,
(15:36):
so I could have I think, so Icould learn more and have more
consistent ability to work on asingle project for a while.
Tim Bourguignon (15:44):
That's interesting, which you said.
You said I would work.
Or we try to find a startup andwhere I know already that
there's a market fit.
But isn't the purpose of astartup actually to find the
market fit, to not have it atthe beginning and find it as
fast as possible?
Sneha Inguva (16:01):
One could argue, yes, that that is the purpose,
but I do think that that mightbe a problem, because I think
one could also argue that thereason there are so many
startups that have basicallybeen funded I mean, this is
probably a philosophical changethat has also come into play
over a decade of working atdifferent companies on startups,
(16:23):
some midsize and some largertech companies is.
I think my mind has changed alittle bit on that and maybe
it's almost ironic, because whenI first moved to the Bay Area
and thought about moving here,there was definitely, I think,
maybe five years ago.
Well, I technically moved lastyear, but five years ago.
I think there is aphilosophical difference between
a lot of New York funders, likeinvestors, and Bay Area
(16:47):
investors, and I think New Yorkinvestors would often want to
see better financials, betterproduct market fit, like a clear
cut roadmap, and I think BayArea was like betting on fat,
higher growth, but notnecessarily having everything
figured out initially.
And I will say that myphilosophy has probably also
(17:09):
changed from the first to thelatter.
That's slightly moreconservative, but just because I
think I've seen so manycompanies that have essentially
only continued to operatebecause they are having billions
poured into them, but they donot have product market fit,
they do not actually make moneyand they are continuously in
(17:31):
debt and there was possibly noway to monetize them ever, and
so I think that's one thing thatI have probably changed my mind
on a little bit is trying toactually, I think, less hustle
culture, less like startup coolaid and more trying to think
(17:52):
about what problem am I tryingto solve?
How would this make money, howwould this work?
Do people actually want thisproduct and what is our roadmap?
Tim Bourguignon (18:02):
I mean, the investment market really gave
you a thumbs up there.
The growth financing is gone.
Now, really, vcs are asking forreturn on their investment for
profitable companies, and sothat's really where we're going.
The days of free cash are over.
Sneha Inguva (18:19):
Yeah.
Tim Bourguignon (18:20):
Yeah, we can find it great or not, but it's
over nonetheless, okay.
So when you joined CloudOcean,still coding, or was that
stepping into something else?
Sneha Inguva (18:34):
I know DigitalOcean, definitely coding.
I joined a Kubernetes teaminitially, which was different.
We were building an abstractionlayer on top of Kubernetes to
make it a little bit easier forpeople to deploy things and
trying to get more applicationowners to use containers and use
this platform instead of tryingto deploy things on a virtual
(18:54):
machine.
It was pretty cool, I think.
Working on Kubernetes andworking on the subtraction layer
was quite interesting.
I think maybe a year, maybeactually nine months into this I
had spent a lot of time lookingat metrics and working with
Prometheus relating to NodeExporter and Prometheus metrics
(19:17):
for our service owners.
I was asked to see if I wantedto go work on the observability
team, which I thought could befun.
So I was there for a little bitand then I think that's when I
realized I probably likesoftware engineering more than
Ops work and I felt that thatteam the balance of writing
(19:39):
software versus doing a lot ofDevOps was not 5050, and it was
a lot more operations thansoftware engineering.
But I actually wanted to writea lot more software.
So this was another criticaljuncture at DigitalOcean where I
thought about which team Iwanted to go on.
I think this is also a juncturewhere probably earlier in my
(20:03):
career, I would feel I was a lotless direct with managers or
directors about where I wantedmy career to go and just a lot
more reticent about saying thatI'm not happy.
I either am going to leave thecompany or I'm going to move to
(20:24):
one of these teams.
But I think this time I talkedto a lot of friends who were one
level engineer higher than meand they suggested I actually
just directly go to my boss andthen go to an adjacent team and
talk about where I wanted tomove.
People were great about it.
I think they were prettyreceptive.
(20:44):
The engineering director forthe internal Cloud team was like
which team do you want to go to?
At that time the options werestorage, compute or networking.
I looked at the makeups of allthe teams in each of those orgs.
(21:04):
I think for storage it justfelt like we were building
things using Ceph.
I think for compute it feltlike there were not enough
senior engineers or staff orprincipal engineers and
networking felt like it had avery good balance of principal
staff and other engineers.
I think in my mind it felt likeI would get a lot more
(21:27):
mentorship there.
I ended up picking networkingalmost ad hoc, just because the
team looked the best, the teammakeup, maturity and the level
of mentoring that I wanted, andthe projects looked the best,
and that's where I've basicallybeen ever since.
Tim Bourguignon (21:44):
This is awesome .
I love that you chose itpurposefully for learning
perspectives.
This is something that I seedone way to seldom, I must say.
Were you accompanied back thenalready to think this way, to
push you out of your shell, togo in this thinking process?
(22:06):
Or was it you and you, and youand me?
Sneha Inguva (22:10):
I think some of my friends at Digital Ocean.
When I went to them andmentioned that I was unhappy, I
think we talked it through.
I think them and some of myprevious colleagues from prior
companies who were staffengineers at Twitter and whatnot
, I think when I was unhappy, Iwent to a lot of my mentors, I
would say, and asked them foradvice.
(22:32):
I think in the process oftalking things through, I
realized that, especially sincein this capitalist society we
spend so many of our hours inthe workplace, If we
fundamentally don't like who wework with and feel like at least
for me, I think if I feel likeI am not learning and I
(22:52):
mentioned that and use thatphrase before, where at a
previous company I felt like Iwas effectively Benjamin
Buttoning I know I won't behappy.
That is something I definitelytry to look to, like the
opportunities to learn newthings and what the team makeup
is, Because these are the peopleI will talk to for eight hours
(23:13):
a day, five days a week.
Tim Bourguignon (23:15):
Indeed, you will.
Yeah, so how long did you keepthis feeling of growing,
learning and being on the rocketinside this team, and when did
that feeling maybe start tochange and pushed you?
Sneha Inguva (23:30):
out.
I would say probably three anda half years.
It felt very good.
It felt like it was the goldenage of the networking team and I
was on a few differentnetworking teams.
We were kind of moved aroundbased on project.
So I worked on something wheremy colleague had started working
on something where it was likeL3 MPLS kind of moving the
(23:52):
network or moving the cloudarchitecture from a giant layer
two network to using MPLS andBGP like depending on ingress or
egress pads.
So that was a pretty coolproject.
I joined it kind of late but Iworked on a lot of observability
relating to it.
And after that I worked withanother colleague on DHCP,
(24:16):
implementing our own DHCP serverthat would work within the
context of what we were like thecontext of existing digital
ocean architecture, and that waspretty cool, just because I
think I think working onprojects where we were reading
like RFCs and implementing thoseprotocols is pretty cool and I
(24:38):
think that's what it's all aboutLike, because you know how the
internet works, you know this ishow this protocol works and now
you're just writing code thatdoes that and hopefully it'll
work and 90% well now 80% of thetime it does, and then you run
into corner cases and you debugthem one at a time.
Tim Bourguignon (24:55):
Indeed, you have to.
Sneha Inguva (24:56):
Yes.
Tim Bourguignon (24:58):
You mentioned in passing.
I didn't pick up on it or Ididn't react on it before I said
something like that you wereplaying catch up on your, the CS
degree that you didn't have.
Yeah, and what you'redescribing is is re-implementing
RFCs for the core concepts ofnetwork infrastructure.
When did that feeling of havingto play catch up and finally
(25:22):
being there, or switch from theone to the other, or did it?
Sneha Inguva (25:28):
I would probably say this year, but maybe this
year or last year, but I thinkfor a long time.
I mean.
I think the other thing is whenyou're constantly working with
very, very experienced people,it is hard to not see the growth
in yourself.
Whenever and you work with hasa PhD and I think that was the
last company at least or hasyears of experience, I will say
(25:53):
and I think a few things thathelped me with playing catch up
with the CS degree and feelinglike I was perpetually behind.
I ended up having two mentorswho I became really good friends
with even outside of work, andI traveled with one of them,
like went on climbing andmountaineering trips and they
had a lot of one on one sessionswhere we would just
(26:14):
re-implement network primitivesand go as part of our mentoring
outside of work.
And I think just doing that,like build a L4 load balancer,
build a layer seven loadbalancer, try to build your own
port scanner, and I think thoseare also good projects whenever
you try to learn a new language,because I know for a period of
(26:36):
time there was a Rust team at myold company, at Digital Ocean
Rust.
I say team, it was like thechannel and everyone was trying
to learn Rust, and how we weregoing to learn Rust was by
building these things in Rust.
Unfortunately, I did not havetime to actually build my port
scanner ever in Rust, but yeah,I think it definitely was a
(26:58):
rough learning curve.
I will say, one of the otherthings I did, in addition to
having these mentors, nickBulliani and Julius Volz from
Prometheus delightful humanbeings was I would write down
everything anyone would say thatI didn't know what it meant in
a giant Google doc and then, Iguess every week or every few
(27:20):
weeks, I would just ask acolleague or a friend to explain
all these concepts, or I wouldGoogle them, or ask and Google
them at the same time.
Tim Bourguignon (27:29):
Ooh, being very diligent in writing down what
you don't know and then huntingthese knowledge gaps.
Sneha Inguva (27:36):
Exactly.
Tim Bourguignon (27:38):
Ooh, that's very wise.
Sneha Inguva (27:39):
Yeah, I think that helped a lot, but for a long
time it was like 20 pages oflike terms.
I did not know it was a lot, itwas definitely a lot.
Tim Bourguignon (27:48):
Did that feel okay.
Sneha Inguva (27:50):
No, it felt very daunting and intimidating, but
the reality is, I think and Ithink this is something that has
taken me years is the sensethat you have no idea what
you're doing.
Everyone has that feeling andpeople still have that feeling,
who are like principal engineerswho have a lot of experience
and if people don't have thatfeeling, maybe they're being
overconfident.
Tim Bourguignon (28:09):
Yes, indeed, yes indeed, you said.
Sneha Inguva (28:15):
This feeling of finally having caught up emerged
maybe, or something like thisyeah, I would say it's like I
would still say there's momentsof oh God, I don't know what I'm
doing.
But I think that the feeling ofcaught up is it feels less like
a duck that is drowning andmore like a duck that is on the
(28:35):
surface of the water but stillpaddling and still.
I don't think there's any pointin this industry where you stop
learning and I don't thinkthere's any point where you I
think, especially if you'rehaving some autonomy over a new
project that you need to designthat's a Greenfield project I
don't think there's a momentwhere you feel 100% confident
(28:58):
that you've figured, you'vesolved everything.
I think there's definitelypoints of being unsure, but I
think what it is is I feel likeI have enough knowledge of
computer science and networkingwhere and maybe it's a
combination of both confidenceand just like more knowledge of
the fundamentals where I am alot more comfortable just
(29:22):
speaking out but then alsoasking for help, but then also
speaking up and trying tochallenge ideas in meetings, I
would say, and so I think thatfor me was kind of a marker of
the willingness to be a lot moredirect and to challenge.
So I think that was maybe thefeeling of okay, I've caught up
enough where I feel pretty goodabout this, but I also feel like
(29:45):
I guess it's a feeling of I nowknow what I know and what I
don't know, whereas before, fora long time, it probably felt
like I didn't know what I knewand didn't even know, and now I
think, at least, I have a betteridea of that demarcation.
So, though I will always havequestions, and I will always
have moments of like what am Ieven doing?
(30:08):
I feel I'm still like unsureabout the direction I want this
project that I'm building totake.
I do think that I have like anidea of what I can say
confidently and what I am notconfident about, and where I can
seek assistance.
Tim Bourguignon (30:23):
So as a behavior change between before
and after, that will be mostlythis knowing your insecurities
and being okay in stepping intoa minefield, maybe asking
questions and knowing willinglygoing there.
Sneha Inguva (30:38):
Yes.
Tim Bourguignon (30:39):
Okay, very cool .
Sneha Inguva (30:41):
So what is from the knowledge?
And part of it is probably fromexperience and also realizing
that often times, a lot ofpeople have the same questions,
but they will just not ask them.
Tim Bourguignon (30:53):
Indeed, indeed, way too often, even yes.
So what decided you to leavethis fantastic streak of three
years in this networking team?
Sneha Inguva (31:03):
I think a lot of changes were happening.
I think some of my colleaguesthat I really liked left.
I think it also felt like thetrajectory of projects that we
were taking on and maybe somelike higher leadership decisions
I didn't necessarily agree with.
I mean, I think it's so farremoved at this point I don't
(31:26):
even remember what thosedecisions were, but I knew that
I just wasn't 100% happy withthe direction and like the
roadmap that was being taken andI think there was.
I also felt like there were toomany shortcuts being taken in
certain projects that made nosense and I definitely spoke up
(31:47):
about it and spoke up like a lotabout it.
But I think that was aconsistent feeling amongst many
colleagues because a lot ofpeople started leaving around
the same time.
Tim Bourguignon (31:57):
Okay, yeah, that's a better one as well.
Yes, something that happensquite often, so how did you find
your next?
Sneha Inguva (32:04):
game Fastly.
Well, one of my colleagues, Ithink from I knew a couple of
colleagues from Digital Oceanhad moved to Fastly and one of
my mentors, nick Bulliani, and Iwe were both intrigued by
Fastly and curious about thecompany, so I ended up applying.
I think he was at the time.
(32:25):
He was happy with what he wasworking Well, somewhat happy
with what he was working on atDigital Ocean, but I was ready
to do something new.
So I ended up applying andinterviewing and I think they
were happy because I had theexperience with the L3 and PLS
project and they were using MPLSas part of the work they were
doing for Automated TrafficEngineering on one of their
(32:46):
teams.
So it kind of it worked out andI knew go and they wanted to
find people who could write go.
Tim Bourguignon (32:53):
Okay, and from a team perspective, you had been
very adamant in going into ateam where you would learn,
where there would be a good maxmix of seniority and less
seniority.
You find that there as well.
Sneha Inguva (33:09):
Oh, yeah, for sure , I definitely found that at
Fastly.
In fact, I felt like we had alot of very academic people and
so, in a way, I could continuethe same thing where a lot of
one-on-ones with my manager, whowas both coded and had a huge,
well very long, academicbackground, where I would ask
him different concepts and hewould wipeboard them.
(33:31):
It almost felt like school, butit was great because I learned
a lot.
Tim Bourguignon (33:36):
Yeah, that's the best place.
Can you talk about your nextgig?
Sneha Inguva (33:40):
Yes, now I'm at Netflix.
Yeah, at the end of there, yeah, oh yeah, I mean networking at
Netflix is kind of the growl,isn't it?
It is.
It's interesting and I think Ialso realized some interesting
things after I moved to Netflix.
So how I ended up there I thinkI was probably about two years
(34:02):
into Fastly and at the time Idon't think I actually had
actively planned to interview atother places and I don't know
if Netflix reached out or whatthis even was.
Somehow I ended up interviewingthere and I think what happened
is, once again, my colleaguesthat I liked left Fastly and I
was like, oh no, this is sad.
(34:23):
I was also, to be honest,slightly concerned because our
stock price is plummeted.
I didn't necessarily think thatwould correlate to layoffs,
although it turns out after Ileft it did.
So I probably had good timing,and by plummeted I mean we're
talking from $120 to like $11.
Tim Bourguignon (34:42):
Ooh really plummeted.
Sneha Inguva (34:44):
Yeah, really plummeted, and obviously that
somewhat affected my part of mycomp.
But I think even more than that, I was like what does this
spell for the future of thiscompany?
Because that was something thatwould come up in every single
all hands.
Talking about the stock price,where the stock price is at
(35:06):
Technically, we are looking intoedge computing, people are very
excited about it and people arevery excited about Fastly as a
company.
But like, why is the market notresponding?
So it was just a point ofstress, I think.
So I think that was one of thethings where I wasn't 100% I
absolutely must leave now, butit was more so.
Okay, I'll just put feelers outthere because I'm a little
(35:29):
concerned, but I'm not superconcerned.
But yeah, I mean it would bewillful ignorance to ignore this
glaring thing in your face.
It's flashing in your face, butyeah it's a red light flashing
in your face.
Maybe look at that.
Tim Bourguignon (35:45):
Okay, so we ended up interviewing.
I'm not sure how much you cansay, but how was this interview
process?
I picture at least Netflixsomewhere up there on a pedestal
in what can be done in terms ofreally weeding out people and
really finding the gems.
It was long.
Sneha Inguva (36:05):
I think compared to any of these fan companies,
it was a very long interviewprocess.
I think a lot of they probablyhave like two or three
interviews, initially like atechnical screen, you know
something, where you talk withthe manager, and then you have
like one or two all dayinterviews.
It's basically the standardtopics that people interview for
(36:27):
, like problem solving, ageneral technical screen, a
behavioral interview and thensystems design.
So standard things.
I will say that our interviewprocess might be changing a
little bit now just because I'mactually interviewing people,
which is interesting because Ithink I avoided having to take
(36:49):
on interviews for so much of mycareer.
But now I was like, okay, fine,I avoided this very critical
thing where I have to interviewcandidates, but now I will
finally do it.
But what's funny is, when I waspreparing to interview people
this year, I was like, well, Ican't ask these people these
questions if I haven't done themmyself.
(37:09):
So I will actually write codefor the questions I'm asking,
because I think that was theonly good way I'll know how to
actually properly provide hintsif I need to provide hints and
evaluate what they're doing.
So that was useful andinitially I thought I was the
only one doing that, but Italked to my colleagues and they
all did the same thing, becausethey all had the same take that
(37:31):
like how can we actuallyproperly interview people
without doing these problemsourselves?
Tim Bourguignon (37:38):
Very wise.
Why did you avoid taking partin interviews?
Sneha Inguva (37:41):
I mean probably some level of imposter syndrome.
If we think about it, it'sbecause I didn't have that CS
degree for a long time AtNetflix.
I would say that a lot of mycolleagues do have CS degrees
and then worked at other Fangcompanies before coming here.
Google, facebook, you know,it's like the standard path in a
way, where and then I think alot of them also went to Ivy
(38:02):
League schools and I did go toan Ivy League school but I
didn't go to Facebook after.
So that's like different.
So it's like they worked, theywent to this high level school,
then went to a company that islike well known and then came
here, and so I guess it's like alittle bit of imposter syndrome
and feeling insecurity.
But I think probably after likea decade of catch up and maybe
(38:28):
knowing what I do know and whatI don't know, I felt more
comfortable just interviewingpeople.
Tim Bourguignon (38:33):
OK, it's incredible what those 10 years
of experience really do onknowing what you're worth and
not being shaken up on yourfoundations right at the moment
where somebody asks you aquestion.
I mean really feel maturity andetc.
Well, good for you, Really cool.
So did you find at Netflix thispool of knowledge and learning
(38:53):
again and growing?
Sneha Inguva (38:57):
I think so I think Netflix is going through an
interesting period right nowBecause I think for a long time
they were the leaders right instreaming and now we have all
these competitors in streamingas well.
So it's a question of how do wego forward from here?
How do we address technicaldebt?
Because something I also didn'teven think about They've been
(39:20):
around for like more than 20years.
You know there was a DVD era, Ithink.
Actually, now my parents were.
We were very Indian and toocheap to actually have Netflix.
Until I started working forthis company, I didn't pay for
Netflix, but now I do andactually have Netflix.
Tim Bourguignon (39:39):
As I would imagine from a Netflix employee.
I'm sure you must have one.
Sneha Inguva (39:42):
Yes, yes, I do have Netflix now, which is
exciting.
I mean, it's a per week.
We get access to shows like amonth early, so that's kind of
cool, oh, yeah, yeah, so it'sthe company's been around a long
time, and so you can imaginethe amount of like technical
debt and the need for evolvingwith the times.
And I think you can also seethat in what Netflix is trying
(40:05):
to do now with gaming, which isa big bet, and then live events.
We had a live golf eventyesterday which was kind of cool
.
I watched some of it.
Okay, yeah, it's pretty cool,yeah, so so I think there's that
.
I think that's one element.
They're trying to change theproducts for the space that
(40:27):
we're in.
I think another element is thefact that there is technical
debt because the company is oldand long.
It's been around a long time.
Products have, or microservicesand larger scale services have
grown, and now we need to evolvethem.
I think there was also thephilosophy is probably changing
(40:47):
a little bit as well, whereas Ithink before I even joined, I
think for a long time it wasalmost like a conglomeration of
city states, where a lot of theywere.
Netflix would just hire thesmart, a bunch of really smart
senior engineers and tell themto build things, and I think
there was a little less planningand organization, and I think
(41:09):
now the pendulum has swungexcessively in the other
direction.
But now we're finding our wayto a middle ground where there's
more planning, a little bitmore organization, addressing
technical debt and then tryingto have a lot more like
architecture and design reviewsand just better overall
practices.
And then I think this has alsobeen publicized, probably last
(41:33):
year where Netflix is hiringmore people new grads which I
don't think the company ever didin its entire history.
So that's also a change.
Tim Bourguignon (41:42):
Yeah, there was this book about the Netflix
culture way back when, like 10years ago.
But really hiring only the bestfrom the best and behaving like
a sports team and you're therefor a season.
That kind of collides with thisidea of getting new grads.
Sneha Inguva (41:58):
Yeah, times are changing.
We also have interns.
Tim Bourguignon (42:01):
Wow.
Sneha Inguva (42:03):
Yeah, they look so young and shiny in the office.
Tim Bourguignon (42:07):
So yeah, it's a twist.
Fantastic.
This is the time of theinterview.
I want to come back to onepiece that really struck me and
ask you for an advice here.
I was really struck by themoment we said, hey, something
changed in me and and I stoppednot listening to myself, not
(42:30):
saying I'm miserable here, Ineed to change something.
I need to change something, butfinally, with help from friends
etc, decided to speak up andsay, no, I need to make it
change in my own.
Do you have an advice forsomebody who is starting to feel
this but but it's not there yet, who starts to feel something
is wrong but needs some guidanceinto doing something?
Sneha Inguva (42:52):
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think for me it's
probably silly, but something Ialways do and this is for work
and even outside of work, likeinterpersonal relationships is I
write down.
I first write down all of mythoughts like what am I not
happy about?
And then maybe also try to comeup like, come up with like a
list of possible solutions andthen or do I need to make a
(43:16):
change?
And then try often get a secondopinion, If it can be a trusted
colleague on a different team,maybe someone who's a little bit
more senior, and share theGoogle Doc with them and have a
video call and talk up, talkthrough these points.
It's very methodical, probablymaybe excessively methodical
(43:39):
sounding, but then from that Icome up with some key points
that I actually want to bring upand then try to and then just
schedule the meeting with amanager or like a manager's
manager or maybe the adjacentmanager on a different team as
well, and try to bring up all ofthese points.
(43:59):
But I will say, going intothese conversations with no
preparation is definitely notthe way to do it.
I think, writing things downand then kind of honing what
you're going to say and thenturning that into key talking
points.
So you have a point from whereyou kick off.
The conversation helps a lot,because I don't think a lot of
(44:20):
people are including myself aregood at ad hoc conversations.
Tim Bourguignon (44:27):
Yeah, I want to rebound on that.
You've done very well for thelast point about this.
Sneha Inguva (44:30):
Well, this is not a contentious discussion today,
but if it's a contentiousdiscussion, I think contentious,
heated discussions.
You absolutely need to writedown what you're going to say.
Tim Bourguignon (44:42):
Amen to that, absolutely yes, very wise, and
really love the way you're goingat it, not just here, but as
well for the questions youmentioned before having a Google
dog being analytical andmethodical for that as well.
It really fits your profile.
Given a couple examples of that, so this advice fits there
(45:03):
nicely, thank you so much forthat.
Sneha Inguva (45:05):
Of course, and I also can't discount the
effectiveness of therapy, whichhas taught me very well how to
have difficult conversationswith people, both everywhere in
life and in the workplace.
I think that is extremelyhelpful.
Tim Bourguignon (45:21):
It is indeed.
Sneha Inguva (45:22):
Yes.
Tim Bourguignon (45:24):
Thank you so much for that.
It's been great.
Yeah, where would be the bestplace to continue this
discussion with you?
Sneha Inguva (45:32):
Of course.
So I'm on Twitter and or X dotcom I guess is what it is called
now at Sneha and Guva, also onInstagram at Sneha and Guva, and
I do have a website which isSneha and Guva dot com.
Tim Bourguignon (45:46):
Wow, is it a comment?
Sneha Inguva (45:48):
No, that is how I got that domain.
There's no way I can get Snehadot com, but I could get.
This actually reminds me one ofthe key things I knew that I
finally was working at a muchlarger tech company Is I looked
up the number of Sneha's atNetflix and there might be 10.
And so one of the Sneha's and Iactually ended up getting
(46:10):
coffee one day and we were veryexcited because it turns out we
both rock climb, but I am maybenine years older than her and
she's a new grad, and so it wasexciting.
And then we actually messagedall the other Sneha's and we had
a or I think we had and plan toagain have a Google Hangout
with all eight Sneha's.
Tim Bourguignon (46:31):
This is so fun.
Sneha Inguva (46:33):
And then we wanted to dress up as Spider-Man for
Halloween and take a photo wherewe're pointing at each other.
Tim Bourguignon (46:40):
I want to see that it's very exciting Next
Halloween.
Sneha Inguva (46:43):
Next Halloween that will have to be the costume
.
Tim Bourguignon (46:47):
I'm writing it down and I'll add all those
links to the show notes.
So if you didn't get that, eventhough it was easy, scroll down
and just like, and it'll bethere.
Thank you so much.
Sneha Inguva (47:01):
Thank you.
Tim Bourguignon (47:02):
And this has been another episode of Delper's
Journey.
We'll see each other next week.
Bye, bye.
Thanks a lot for tuning in.
I hope you have enjoyed thisweek's episode.
If you like the show, pleaseshare, rate and review.
It helps more listenersdiscover those stories.
You can find the links to allthe platforms the show appears
(47:23):
on on our website,devjourneyinfocom.
Subscribe.
Talk to you soon.
I first write down all of my thoughts like what am
I not happy about?
And then maybe also try to comeup with a list of possible
solutions or do I need to make achange?
And then I often get a secondopinion.
If it can be a trustedcolleague on a different team,
(00:21):
maybe someone who's a little bitmore senior, and share the
Google Doc with them and have avideo call and talk through
these points.
It's very methodical, probablymaybe excessively methodical
sounding, but then from that Icome up with some key points
that I actually want to bring upand then try to and then just
(00:43):
schedule a meeting with amanager or a manager's manager
or maybe the adjacent manager ona different team as well, and
try to bring up all of thesepoints.
But I will say, going intothese conversations with no
preparation is definitely notthe way to do it.
I think writing things down andthen kind of honing what you're
(01:05):
going to say and then turningthat into key talking points so
you have a point from where youkick off the conversation helps
a lot, because I don't think alot of people or including
myself are good at ad hocconversations.
Tim Bourguignon (01:20):
Hello and welcome to Developers' Journey,
the podcast bringing you themaking of stories of successful
software developers to help youon your upcoming journey.
I'm your host, tim Boulgigno.
On this episode I receive Sniain Goova.
Snia is a software engineer innetworking at Netflix.
Before she entered the realm ofinfrastructure, cloud computing
(01:43):
and networking, she worked insome unusual areas like casino
gaming and 3D printed orthotics,to name only a few.
In her spare time she enjoysrock climbing and walking her
cat Gatsby, which is a greatname on the leash word for
casual neighborhood Jones Snia.
A warm welcome to her.
Sneha Inguva (02:05):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me here.
Tim Bourguignon (02:08):
Great name, really great name.
Did you really go with your caton the leash in neighborhood?
Sneha Inguva (02:13):
I do, I do.
He was famous in New Yorkbecause someone from BuzzFeed
wanted to interview us at somepoint, but I turned down the
interview request.
He doesn't like paparazzi.
Tim Bourguignon (02:27):
Fantastic story .
This is starting really well.
But before we come to yourstory, I want to thank the
terrific listeners who supportthe show.
Every month, you are keepingthe DevJourney lights up.
If you would like to join thisfine crew and help me spend more
time on finding phenomenalguests than editing audio tracks
(02:49):
, please go to our website,devjourneyinfo and click on the
Support Me on Patreon button.
Even the smallest contributionsare giant steps toward a
sustainable DevJourney journey.
Thank you, and now back totoday's guest, so Snia.
As you know, the show exists tohelp the listeners understand
(03:11):
what your story looks like andimagine how to shape their own
future.
So, as usual on the show, let'sgo back to your beginnings.
Where would you place the startof your DevJourney?
Sneha Inguva (03:20):
I would say the start of my DevJourney is
probably right after I graduatedcollege.
In a way, it's pretty basic,because there's software
engineers who come into softwareengineering, who have a
completely unexpected background, and then there's people who
study computer science and thenthere's the third category,
which is not computer sciencebut adjacent.
(03:41):
I was in that category, whichis, you could say I'm a bit of a
basic bitch when it comes tothat.
I studied electricalengineering and economics and
after I graduated I think atthat time in 2012, there just
were not that many hardwarestartups and I think I very much
drank the hustle culturestartup Kool-Aid at the time.
(04:07):
I mean, I've worked in startupssince then, but I think at that
time I was very much into thatand so I didn't see any
opportunities in hardware.
But I had written some C++ andtaken a few programming classes
in college.
So I ended up interviewing at abunch of places.
I really wanted to live in NewYork and ended up getting a job
(04:28):
at a casino gaming company whichwas very random, Basically slot
machine games.
We wrote Monte Carlosimulations to prove what the
return to player was.
Obviously, the house alwayswins.
But, you would be surprised thenumber of people that have tried
to argue with me about that andabout mathematical independence
(04:50):
, which is hilarious, but I getit.
I get where it's coming from.
It's like arguing about theMonty Hall problem or the Green
Eyed Monster paradox.
With math people it doesn'talways make sense.
So I get where it's coming from.
So I guess that was the startof the dev journey.
And then I worked at differentstartups for a few years, each
(05:14):
more weird than the last in someways, From the casino gaming
company.
After a year I realized Iwasn't particularly passionate
about designing slot machinegames.
I mean, we did go on some coolfield trips, I guess to Vegas.
Tim Bourguignon (05:33):
I did say yeah.
Sneha Inguva (05:34):
And places in New Jersey which were less exciting.
But actually the trips were alittle depressing, to be honest,
because day drinking in thecasino while watching people
play slot machine games forresearch was interesting To say
(05:54):
the least.
Interesting, to say the least.
I definitely worked with a lotof cool people on, mostly
mathematicians, so my colleagueswere amazing.
I think just the product wewere building is not something I
was passionate about.
So after a year I left to gowork at an ed tech company,
which was an incredibly chaotictime because they changed their
product seven times within sevenmonths and at that point I
(06:18):
decided that I felt like, assomeone who was still new to the
field of software engineeringand I think this is something
I've always considered in mycareer I was almost like
Benjamin butting and devolving.
So I wanted a place with alittle bit more stability.
But instead of seeking thatfirst, I quit to work on my own
startup, which was even lessstability, and that was
(06:41):
definitely interesting.
Initially I said colleague, myfriend and I wanted to start
something that related to news,basically creating a
browser-based annotation to factcheck news, which, of course,
in the decade since and witheach progressive election and or
worldwide situation, has becomemore and more important.
(07:04):
However, you can't actuallymake money Really.
Well, I mean you can becauseobviously those organizations
exist, but the field ofjournalism has gone through a
lot in the last decade.
I think what became apparent isthat, a it's very hard to
monetize and B I think there'sand this is something I've
(07:24):
realized going forward with anyfuture startups that I ever work
on where I'm one of the firstengineers you have to be on the
same page as your founders ofthe amount of time that you're
putting in and if any of you areleaving your job to work on it
full-time.
I think that also ended afterprobably a year and a half.
We did do journalism fellowshipand we were interviewing with
(07:48):
some accelerators, but I thinkwhen it came down to it, my
friend and I were not really onthe same page with how we wanted
to move forward.
So we decided to part ways andI interviewed and started and I
guess this is like anothercritical juncture of my career
path.
I interviewed at a bunch ofplaces.
I debated if I wanted to go intoengineering consulting, I
(08:12):
debated what exactly I wanted todo, but I think I interviewed
with someone at Digital Ocean,which is a Cloud company that
IPO'd, I think maybe two yearsago at this point, two or three
years ago which works in thesmall to medium business space.
I think it felt like thatoffered a bit more stability and
(08:34):
a bit more mentorship at thetime because, especially someone
without a background incomputer science who learned a
lot on the fly, I felt like Ineeded to really hone a lot of
my knowledge with algorithms thebasic stuff both that you
interview for but then also usein the workplace on occasion but
(08:57):
usually don't implementyourself.
So I wanted to get a betterunderstanding of CS fundamentals
but then also just gain abetter understanding of software
best practices.
I didn't think that wouldhappen at an engineering
consulting company.
I felt like that would happenat a more mature company.
So I ended up going to DigitalOcean, which they said they were
a startup, but they had like100 employees at the time.
(09:18):
I think I stayed with them forlike five years and they went
from like 100 to like a thousand, so that was super fun.
Tim Bourguignon (09:26):
Wow, Pretty cool.
Let me unpack a couple ofthings Going back to all the way
to the beginning.
You said you studied electricalengineering and economics.
Sneha Inguva (09:37):
Yeah.
Tim Bourguignon (09:37):
How did that mix come in?
Sneha Inguva (09:39):
I think economics just because I think it's an
important way of understandingthe world.
It's, I mean, even when you arebuilding.
Like the number of times in myengineering career that I have
had to make infrastructuredecisions or changes based on
how much like cloud spend we arehaving is frequent, especially
in this economy.
(10:00):
And so I think the economicsbit was because I was just
interested in bothmacroeconomics, microeconomics
and the philosophies ofinvesting.
Granted, you really learnnothing about actually investing
money in an undergraduateeconomics program.
You basically learn micro andmacro and that's about it and
maybe some econometrics.
But I think I just liked thewanting to understand the
(10:25):
economy and systems from thatperspective.
Tim Bourguignon (10:29):
Yeah, makes sense.
And when you are somehow in theearly stages of a startup,
everybody is responsible ofeconomics.
Everybody has to look on the,on the expenses.
Everybody has to be smart aboutit.
There's not your job and thatsays everybody's.
Sneha Inguva (10:44):
Although once again, ironically, I do think
that I do think that some ofthose skills, and even for
computer science too, there'sdefinitely discrepancy Even if I
had gotten a computer sciencedegree and I don't know an MBA
or whatever.
I guess applies to early stagestartups and actually being at
(11:07):
an early stage startup oractually being at a software
engineering company and part ofa team.
And I think a lot of computerscience programs at different
universities are acknowledgingthat and trying to bridge that
gap.
Tim Bourguignon (11:19):
Yes, I've seen this as well.
It's really healthy.
But I've seen the other wayaround as well talking to not
junior developers about how tomanage their own finances,
because it's not normal in oureconomy to have software
developers looking paycheck topaycheck at least not in Europe
and it was really surprising tohave to have that discussions
(11:40):
with people just to get themaway from just thinking money,
money, money, money, money allthe time and be focused on
something else, which is anyhow,when you, when you entered this
casino or slot machine vendingmachine slot machine company I'm
not sure there was a casino- Ithink you said CSF casino.
(12:02):
What did you do there?
Did you do algorithmdevelopment or did you have a
foot in infrastructure andnetworking already?
Sneha Inguva (12:08):
Not at all.
It was literally, I guess, justwriting, writing very simple
programs that would do asimulation of a particular slot
machine in order to prove thatthere would be like a 95% return
to to payer, meaning that ifsomeone spent a dollar, on
average in the long run theywould get 95 cents back.
(12:30):
And this has had to be done forregulatory purposes, because I
guess before I mean, I thinkthere is some kind of regulatory
commission for casino gamingyou need to prove that people in
fact will get this, this amountof money, for this particular
game.
And I think what's interestingis, you know, in the year that I
(12:52):
was there, initially the entirepremise was that we're only
designing games for slotmachines.
But I think there was somelegalization of online gaming in
New Jersey and select placesand I think also in Europe and
Macau.
I think online gaming is morelegal on online slot machines.
(13:15):
But then, aside from that,there was a popularity.
I mean, I don't know if yourecall the era where Facebook
apps were particularly popularand people would monetize, but
it's kind of risky to make yourentire business model based on
another social media company.
Tim Bourguignon (13:33):
Yes, it is One thing I find interesting.
You mentioned quite a few timesstability, while describing
having drunk the startupKool-Aid and going from one
startup to the next and evencreating your own company.
That doesn't really connect inmy mind.
Startups isn't stability.
It's being on a rocket that isgoing to work or maybe not, and
(13:57):
if it doesn't, you know, it wasa possibility at the beginning,
but that wasn't stability.
Did I miss this in you?
Sneha Inguva (14:05):
Oh no, that's 100% true, I think.
Right after I graduated collegeI think I felt oddly very
comfortable taking on theserisks and, I think, part of it.
I don't think you can deny theamount of privilege you have in
knowing that, first of all, theed tech startup I worked at
(14:27):
compensated me pretty well, so Ihad enough money to just live
off savings while working on mystartup, and then also the
knowledge that I did have afamily who would probably help
me if I came to the end of allof my savings.
But I will say I think it wasthat period that made me realize
that in the future, if I'm topursue another startup journey,
(14:51):
I think I want to get likereally confirmed that I have
product market fit and be a lotmore cognizant of both budgeting
, product market fit and riskreward and, I guess, the
opportunity cost of taking thatstep, because towards the end of
working on my own startup, Idefinitely went into debt and
then I was very frugal afterstarting at DigitalOcean.
(15:13):
So, yes, I think that'spartially why I was definitely
happy with the path I chose andthe lack of stability I had in
trying to pursue a bunch ofdifferent things.
But I think I came to a pointwhere I did want a bit more
stability, both financially and,I think, also just team wise,
(15:36):
so I could have I think, so Icould learn more and have more
consistent ability to work on asingle project for a while.
Tim Bourguignon (15:44):
That's interesting, which you said.
You said I would work.
Or we try to find a startup andwhere I know already that
there's a market fit.
But isn't the purpose of astartup actually to find the
market fit, to not have it atthe beginning and find it as
fast as possible?
Sneha Inguva (16:01):
One could argue, yes, that that is the purpose,
but I do think that that mightbe a problem, because I think
one could also argue that thereason there are so many
startups that have basicallybeen funded I mean, this is
probably a philosophical changethat has also come into play
over a decade of working atdifferent companies on startups,
(16:23):
some midsize and some largertech companies is.
I think my mind has changed alittle bit on that and maybe
it's almost ironic, because whenI first moved to the Bay Area
and thought about moving here,there was definitely, I think,
maybe five years ago.
Well, I technically moved lastyear, but five years ago.
I think there is aphilosophical difference between
a lot of New York funders, likeinvestors, and Bay Area
(16:47):
investors, and I think New Yorkinvestors would often want to
see better financials, betterproduct market fit, like a clear
cut roadmap, and I think BayArea was like betting on fat,
higher growth, but notnecessarily having everything
figured out initially.
And I will say that myphilosophy has probably also
(17:09):
changed from the first to thelatter.
That's slightly moreconservative, but just because I
think I've seen so manycompanies that have essentially
only continued to operatebecause they are having billions
poured into them, but they donot have product market fit,
they do not actually make moneyand they are continuously in
(17:31):
debt and there was possibly noway to monetize them ever, and
so I think that's one thing thatI have probably changed my mind
on a little bit is trying toactually, I think, less hustle
culture, less like startup coolaid and more trying to think
(17:52):
about what problem am I tryingto solve?
How would this make money, howwould this work?
Do people actually want thisproduct and what is our roadmap?
Tim Bourguignon (18:02):
I mean, the investment market really gave
you a thumbs up there.
The growth financing is gone.
Now, really, vcs are asking forreturn on their investment for
profitable companies, and sothat's really where we're going.
The days of free cash are over.
Sneha Inguva (18:19):
Yeah.
Tim Bourguignon (18:20):
Yeah, we can find it great or not, but it's
over nonetheless, okay.
So when you joined CloudOcean,still coding, or was that
stepping into something else?
Sneha Inguva (18:34):
I know DigitalOcean, definitely coding.
I joined a Kubernetes teaminitially, which was different.
We were building an abstractionlayer on top of Kubernetes to
make it a little bit easier forpeople to deploy things and
trying to get more applicationowners to use containers and use
this platform instead of tryingto deploy things on a virtual
(18:54):
machine.
It was pretty cool, I think.
Working on Kubernetes andworking on the subtraction layer
was quite interesting.
I think maybe a year, maybeactually nine months into this I
had spent a lot of time lookingat metrics and working with
Prometheus relating to NodeExporter and Prometheus metrics
(19:17):
for our service owners.
I was asked to see if I wantedto go work on the observability
team, which I thought could befun.
So I was there for a little bitand then I think that's when I
realized I probably likesoftware engineering more than
Ops work and I felt that thatteam the balance of writing
(19:39):
software versus doing a lot ofDevOps was not 5050, and it was
a lot more operations thansoftware engineering.
But I actually wanted to writea lot more software.
So this was another criticaljuncture at DigitalOcean where I
thought about which team Iwanted to go on.
I think this is also a juncturewhere probably earlier in my
(20:03):
career, I would feel I was a lotless direct with managers or
directors about where I wantedmy career to go and just a lot
more reticent about saying thatI'm not happy.
I either am going to leave thecompany or I'm going to move to
(20:24):
one of these teams.
But I think this time I talkedto a lot of friends who were one
level engineer higher than meand they suggested I actually
just directly go to my boss andthen go to an adjacent team and
talk about where I wanted tomove.
People were great about it.
I think they were prettyreceptive.
(20:44):
The engineering director forthe internal Cloud team was like
which team do you want to go to?
At that time the options werestorage, compute or networking.
I looked at the makeups of allthe teams in each of those orgs.
(21:04):
I think for storage it justfelt like we were building
things using Ceph.
I think for compute it feltlike there were not enough
senior engineers or staff orprincipal engineers and
networking felt like it had avery good balance of principal
staff and other engineers.
I think in my mind it felt likeI would get a lot more
(21:27):
mentorship there.
I ended up picking networkingalmost ad hoc, just because the
team looked the best, the teammakeup, maturity and the level
of mentoring that I wanted, andthe projects looked the best,
and that's where I've basicallybeen ever since.
Tim Bourguignon (21:44):
This is awesome .
I love that you chose itpurposefully for learning
perspectives.
This is something that I seedone way to seldom, I must say.
Were you accompanied back thenalready to think this way, to
push you out of your shell, togo in this thinking process?
(22:06):
Or was it you and you, and youand me?
Sneha Inguva (22:10):
I think some of my friends at Digital Ocean.
When I went to them andmentioned that I was unhappy, I
think we talked it through.
I think them and some of myprevious colleagues from prior
companies who were staffengineers at Twitter and whatnot
, I think when I was unhappy, Iwent to a lot of my mentors, I
would say, and asked them foradvice.
(22:32):
I think in the process oftalking things through, I
realized that, especially sincein this capitalist society we
spend so many of our hours inthe workplace, If we
fundamentally don't like who wework with and feel like at least
for me, I think if I feel likeI am not learning and I
(22:52):
mentioned that and use thatphrase before, where at a
previous company I felt like Iwas effectively Benjamin
Buttoning I know I won't behappy.
That is something I definitelytry to look to, like the
opportunities to learn newthings and what the team makeup
is, Because these are the peopleI will talk to for eight hours
(23:13):
a day, five days a week.
Tim Bourguignon (23:15):
Indeed, you will.
Yeah, so how long did you keepthis feeling of growing,
learning and being on the rocketinside this team, and when did
that feeling maybe start tochange and pushed you?
Sneha Inguva (23:30):
out.
I would say probably three anda half years.
It felt very good.
It felt like it was the goldenage of the networking team and I
was on a few differentnetworking teams.
We were kind of moved aroundbased on project.
So I worked on something wheremy colleague had started working
on something where it was likeL3 MPLS kind of moving the
(23:52):
network or moving the cloudarchitecture from a giant layer
two network to using MPLS andBGP like depending on ingress or
egress pads.
So that was a pretty coolproject.
I joined it kind of late but Iworked on a lot of observability
relating to it.
And after that I worked withanother colleague on DHCP,
(24:16):
implementing our own DHCP serverthat would work within the
context of what we were like thecontext of existing digital
ocean architecture, and that waspretty cool, just because I
think I think working onprojects where we were reading
like RFCs and implementing thoseprotocols is pretty cool and I
(24:38):
think that's what it's all aboutLike, because you know how the
internet works, you know this ishow this protocol works and now
you're just writing code thatdoes that and hopefully it'll
work and 90% well now 80% of thetime it does, and then you run
into corner cases and you debugthem one at a time.
Tim Bourguignon (24:55):
Indeed, you have to.
Sneha Inguva (24:56):
Yes.
Tim Bourguignon (24:58):
You mentioned in passing.
I didn't pick up on it or Ididn't react on it before I said
something like that you wereplaying catch up on your, the CS
degree that you didn't have.
Yeah, and what you'redescribing is is re-implementing
RFCs for the core concepts ofnetwork infrastructure.
When did that feeling of havingto play catch up and finally
(25:22):
being there, or switch from theone to the other, or did it?
Sneha Inguva (25:28):
I would probably say this year, but maybe this
year or last year, but I thinkfor a long time.
I mean.
I think the other thing is whenyou're constantly working with
very, very experienced people,it is hard to not see the growth
in yourself.
Whenever and you work with hasa PhD and I think that was the
last company at least or hasyears of experience, I will say
(25:53):
and I think a few things thathelped me with playing catch up
with the CS degree and feelinglike I was perpetually behind.
I ended up having two mentorswho I became really good friends
with even outside of work, andI traveled with one of them,
like went on climbing andmountaineering trips and they
had a lot of one on one sessionswhere we would just
(26:14):
re-implement network primitivesand go as part of our mentoring
outside of work.
And I think just doing that,like build a L4 load balancer,
build a layer seven loadbalancer, try to build your own
port scanner, and I think thoseare also good projects whenever
you try to learn a new language,because I know for a period of
(26:36):
time there was a Rust team at myold company, at Digital Ocean
Rust.
I say team, it was like thechannel and everyone was trying
to learn Rust, and how we weregoing to learn Rust was by
building these things in Rust.
Unfortunately, I did not havetime to actually build my port
scanner ever in Rust, but yeah,I think it definitely was a
(26:58):
rough learning curve.
I will say, one of the otherthings I did, in addition to
having these mentors, nickBulliani and Julius Volz from
Prometheus delightful humanbeings was I would write down
everything anyone would say thatI didn't know what it meant in
a giant Google doc and then, Iguess every week or every few
(27:20):
weeks, I would just ask acolleague or a friend to explain
all these concepts, or I wouldGoogle them, or ask and Google
them at the same time.
Tim Bourguignon (27:29):
Ooh, being very diligent in writing down what
you don't know and then huntingthese knowledge gaps.
Sneha Inguva (27:36):
Exactly.
Tim Bourguignon (27:38):
Ooh, that's very wise.
Sneha Inguva (27:39):
Yeah, I think that helped a lot, but for a long
time it was like 20 pages oflike terms.
I did not know it was a lot, itwas definitely a lot.
Tim Bourguignon (27:48):
Did that feel okay.
Sneha Inguva (27:50):
No, it felt very daunting and intimidating, but
the reality is, I think and Ithink this is something that has
taken me years is the sensethat you have no idea what
you're doing.
Everyone has that feeling andpeople still have that feeling,
who are like principal engineerswho have a lot of experience
and if people don't have thatfeeling, maybe they're being
overconfident.
Tim Bourguignon (28:09):
Yes, indeed, yes indeed, you said.
Sneha Inguva (28:15):
This feeling of finally having caught up emerged
maybe, or something like thisyeah, I would say it's like I
would still say there's momentsof oh God, I don't know what I'm
doing.
But I think that the feeling ofcaught up is it feels less like
a duck that is drowning andmore like a duck that is on the
(28:35):
surface of the water but stillpaddling and still.
I don't think there's any pointin this industry where you stop
learning and I don't thinkthere's any point where you I
think, especially if you'rehaving some autonomy over a new
project that you need to designthat's a Greenfield project I
don't think there's a momentwhere you feel 100% confident
(28:58):
that you've figured, you'vesolved everything.
I think there's definitelypoints of being unsure, but I
think what it is is I feel likeI have enough knowledge of
computer science and networkingwhere and maybe it's a
combination of both confidenceand just like more knowledge of
the fundamentals where I am alot more comfortable just
(29:22):
speaking out but then alsoasking for help, but then also
speaking up and trying tochallenge ideas in meetings, I
would say, and so I think thatfor me was kind of a marker of
the willingness to be a lot moredirect and to challenge.
So I think that was maybe thefeeling of okay, I've caught up
enough where I feel pretty goodabout this, but I also feel like
(29:45):
I guess it's a feeling of I nowknow what I know and what I
don't know, whereas before, fora long time, it probably felt
like I didn't know what I knewand didn't even know, and now I
think, at least, I have a betteridea of that demarcation.
So, though I will always havequestions, and I will always
have moments of like what am Ieven doing?
(30:08):
I feel I'm still like unsureabout the direction I want this
project that I'm building totake.
I do think that I have like anidea of what I can say
confidently and what I am notconfident about, and where I can
seek assistance.
Tim Bourguignon (30:23):
So as a behavior change between before
and after, that will be mostlythis knowing your insecurities
and being okay in stepping intoa minefield, maybe asking
questions and knowing willinglygoing there.
Sneha Inguva (30:38):
Yes.
Tim Bourguignon (30:39):
Okay, very cool .
Sneha Inguva (30:41):
So what is from the knowledge?
And part of it is probably fromexperience and also realizing
that often times, a lot ofpeople have the same questions,
but they will just not ask them.
Tim Bourguignon (30:53):
Indeed, indeed, way too often, even yes.
So what decided you to leavethis fantastic streak of three
years in this networking team?
Sneha Inguva (31:03):
I think a lot of changes were happening.
I think some of my colleaguesthat I really liked left.
I think it also felt like thetrajectory of projects that we
were taking on and maybe somelike higher leadership decisions
I didn't necessarily agree with.
I mean, I think it's so farremoved at this point I don't
(31:26):
even remember what thosedecisions were, but I knew that
I just wasn't 100% happy withthe direction and like the
roadmap that was being taken andI think there was.
I also felt like there were toomany shortcuts being taken in
certain projects that made nosense and I definitely spoke up
(31:47):
about it and spoke up like a lotabout it.
But I think that was aconsistent feeling amongst many
colleagues because a lot ofpeople started leaving around
the same time.
Tim Bourguignon (31:57):
Okay, yeah, that's a better one as well.
Yes, something that happensquite often, so how did you find
your next?
Sneha Inguva (32:04):
game Fastly.
Well, one of my colleagues, Ithink from I knew a couple of
colleagues from Digital Oceanhad moved to Fastly and one of
my mentors, nick Bulliani, and Iwe were both intrigued by
Fastly and curious about thecompany, so I ended up applying.
I think he was at the time.
(32:25):
He was happy with what he wasworking Well, somewhat happy
with what he was working on atDigital Ocean, but I was ready
to do something new.
So I ended up applying andinterviewing and I think they
were happy because I had theexperience with the L3 and PLS
project and they were using MPLSas part of the work they were
doing for Automated TrafficEngineering on one of their
(32:46):
teams.
So it kind of it worked out andI knew go and they wanted to
find people who could write go.
Tim Bourguignon (32:53):
Okay, and from a team perspective, you had been
very adamant in going into ateam where you would learn,
where there would be a good maxmix of seniority and less
seniority.
You find that there as well.
Sneha Inguva (33:09):
Oh, yeah, for sure , I definitely found that at
Fastly.
In fact, I felt like we had alot of very academic people and
so, in a way, I could continuethe same thing where a lot of
one-on-ones with my manager, whowas both coded and had a huge,
well very long, academicbackground, where I would ask
him different concepts and hewould wipeboard them.
(33:31):
It almost felt like school, butit was great because I learned
a lot.
Tim Bourguignon (33:36):
Yeah, that's the best place.
Can you talk about your nextgig?
Sneha Inguva (33:40):
Yes, now I'm at Netflix.
Yeah, at the end of there, yeah, oh yeah, I mean networking at
Netflix is kind of the growl,isn't it?
It is.
It's interesting and I think Ialso realized some interesting
things after I moved to Netflix.
So how I ended up there I thinkI was probably about two years
(34:02):
into Fastly and at the time Idon't think I actually had
actively planned to interview atother places and I don't know
if Netflix reached out or whatthis even was.
Somehow I ended up interviewingthere and I think what happened
is, once again, my colleaguesthat I liked left Fastly and I
was like, oh no, this is sad.
(34:23):
I was also, to be honest,slightly concerned because our
stock price is plummeted.
I didn't necessarily think thatwould correlate to layoffs,
although it turns out after Ileft it did.
So I probably had good timing,and by plummeted I mean we're
talking from $120 to like $11.
Tim Bourguignon (34:42):
Ooh really plummeted.
Sneha Inguva (34:44):
Yeah, really plummeted, and obviously that
somewhat affected my part of mycomp.
But I think even more than that, I was like what does this
spell for the future of thiscompany?
Because that was something thatwould come up in every single
all hands.
Talking about the stock price,where the stock price is at
(35:06):
Technically, we are looking intoedge computing, people are very
excited about it and people arevery excited about Fastly as a
company.
But like, why is the market notresponding?
So it was just a point ofstress, I think.
So I think that was one of thethings where I wasn't 100% I
absolutely must leave now, butit was more so.
Okay, I'll just put feelers outthere because I'm a little
(35:29):
concerned, but I'm not superconcerned.
But yeah, I mean it would bewillful ignorance to ignore this
glaring thing in your face.
It's flashing in your face, butyeah it's a red light flashing
in your face.
Maybe look at that.
Tim Bourguignon (35:45):
Okay, so we ended up interviewing.
I'm not sure how much you cansay, but how was this interview
process?
I picture at least Netflixsomewhere up there on a pedestal
in what can be done in terms ofreally weeding out people and
really finding the gems.
It was long.
Sneha Inguva (36:05):
I think compared to any of these fan companies,
it was a very long interviewprocess.
I think a lot of they probablyhave like two or three
interviews, initially like atechnical screen, you know
something, where you talk withthe manager, and then you have
like one or two all dayinterviews.
It's basically the standardtopics that people interview for
(36:27):
, like problem solving, ageneral technical screen, a
behavioral interview and thensystems design.
So standard things.
I will say that our interviewprocess might be changing a
little bit now just because I'mactually interviewing people,
which is interesting because Ithink I avoided having to take
(36:49):
on interviews for so much of mycareer.
But now I was like, okay, fine,I avoided this very critical
thing where I have to interviewcandidates, but now I will
finally do it.
But what's funny is, when I waspreparing to interview people
this year, I was like, well, Ican't ask these people these
questions if I haven't done themmyself.
(37:09):
So I will actually write codefor the questions I'm asking,
because I think that was theonly good way I'll know how to
actually properly provide hintsif I need to provide hints and
evaluate what they're doing.
So that was useful andinitially I thought I was the
only one doing that, but Italked to my colleagues and they
all did the same thing, becausethey all had the same take that
(37:31):
like how can we actuallyproperly interview people
without doing these problemsourselves?
Tim Bourguignon (37:38):
Very wise.
Why did you avoid taking partin interviews?
Sneha Inguva (37:41):
I mean probably some level of imposter syndrome.
If we think about it, it'sbecause I didn't have that CS
degree for a long time AtNetflix.
I would say that a lot of mycolleagues do have CS degrees
and then worked at other Fangcompanies before coming here.
Google, facebook, you know,it's like the standard path in a
way, where and then I think alot of them also went to Ivy
(38:02):
League schools and I did go toan Ivy League school but I
didn't go to Facebook after.
So that's like different.
So it's like they worked, theywent to this high level school,
then went to a company that islike well known and then came
here, and so I guess it's like alittle bit of imposter syndrome
and feeling insecurity.
But I think probably after likea decade of catch up and maybe
(38:28):
knowing what I do know and whatI don't know, I felt more
comfortable just interviewingpeople.
Tim Bourguignon (38:33):
OK, it's incredible what those 10 years
of experience really do onknowing what you're worth and
not being shaken up on yourfoundations right at the moment
where somebody asks you aquestion.
I mean really feel maturity andetc.
Well, good for you, Really cool.
So did you find at Netflix thispool of knowledge and learning
(38:53):
again and growing?
Sneha Inguva (38:57):
I think so I think Netflix is going through an
interesting period right nowBecause I think for a long time
they were the leaders right instreaming and now we have all
these competitors in streamingas well.
So it's a question of how do wego forward from here?
How do we address technicaldebt?
Because something I also didn'teven think about They've been
(39:20):
around for like more than 20years.
You know there was a DVD era, Ithink.
Actually, now my parents were.
We were very Indian and toocheap to actually have Netflix.
Until I started working forthis company, I didn't pay for
Netflix, but now I do andactually have Netflix.
Tim Bourguignon (39:39):
As I would imagine from a Netflix employee.
I'm sure you must have one.
Sneha Inguva (39:42):
Yes, yes, I do have Netflix now, which is
exciting.
I mean, it's a per week.
We get access to shows like amonth early, so that's kind of
cool, oh, yeah, yeah, so it'sthe company's been around a long
time, and so you can imaginethe amount of like technical
debt and the need for evolvingwith the times.
And I think you can also seethat in what Netflix is trying
(40:05):
to do now with gaming, which isa big bet, and then live events.
We had a live golf eventyesterday which was kind of cool
.
I watched some of it.
Okay, yeah, it's pretty cool,yeah, so so I think there's that
.
I think that's one element.
They're trying to change theproducts for the space that
(40:27):
we're in.
I think another element is thefact that there is technical
debt because the company is oldand long.
It's been around a long time.
Products have, or microservicesand larger scale services have
grown, and now we need to evolvethem.
I think there was also thephilosophy is probably changing
(40:47):
a little bit as well, whereas Ithink before I even joined, I
think for a long time it wasalmost like a conglomeration of
city states, where a lot of theywere.
Netflix would just hire thesmart, a bunch of really smart
senior engineers and tell themto build things, and I think
there was a little less planningand organization, and I think
(41:09):
now the pendulum has swungexcessively in the other
direction.
But now we're finding our wayto a middle ground where there's
more planning, a little bitmore organization, addressing
technical debt and then tryingto have a lot more like
architecture and design reviewsand just better overall
practices.
And then I think this has alsobeen publicized, probably last
(41:33):
year where Netflix is hiringmore people new grads which I
don't think the company ever didin its entire history.
So that's also a change.
Tim Bourguignon (41:42):
Yeah, there was this book about the Netflix
culture way back when, like 10years ago.
But really hiring only the bestfrom the best and behaving like
a sports team and you're therefor a season.
That kind of collides with thisidea of getting new grads.
Sneha Inguva (41:58):
Yeah, times are changing.
We also have interns.
Tim Bourguignon (42:01):
Wow.
Sneha Inguva (42:03):
Yeah, they look so young and shiny in the office.
Tim Bourguignon (42:07):
So yeah, it's a twist.
Fantastic.
This is the time of theinterview.
I want to come back to onepiece that really struck me and
ask you for an advice here.
I was really struck by themoment we said, hey, something
changed in me and and I stoppednot listening to myself, not
(42:30):
saying I'm miserable here, Ineed to change something.
I need to change something, butfinally, with help from friends
etc, decided to speak up andsay, no, I need to make it
change in my own.
Do you have an advice forsomebody who is starting to feel
this but but it's not there yet, who starts to feel something
is wrong but needs some guidanceinto doing something?
Sneha Inguva (42:52):
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think for me it's
probably silly, but something Ialways do and this is for work
and even outside of work, likeinterpersonal relationships is I
write down.
I first write down all of mythoughts like what am I not
happy about?
And then maybe also try to comeup like, come up with like a
list of possible solutions andthen or do I need to make a
(43:16):
change?
And then try often get a secondopinion, If it can be a trusted
colleague on a different team,maybe someone who's a little bit
more senior, and share theGoogle Doc with them and have a
video call and talk up, talkthrough these points.
It's very methodical, probablymaybe excessively methodical
(43:39):
sounding, but then from that Icome up with some key points
that I actually want to bring upand then try to and then just
schedule the meeting with amanager or like a manager's
manager or maybe the adjacentmanager on a different team as
well, and try to bring up all ofthese points.
(43:59):
But I will say, going intothese conversations with no
preparation is definitely notthe way to do it.
I think, writing things downand then kind of honing what
you're going to say and thenturning that into key talking
points.
So you have a point from whereyou kick off.
The conversation helps a lot,because I don't think a lot of
(44:20):
people are including myself aregood at ad hoc conversations.
Tim Bourguignon (44:27):
Yeah, I want to rebound on that.
You've done very well for thelast point about this.
Sneha Inguva (44:30):
Well, this is not a contentious discussion today,
but if it's a contentiousdiscussion, I think contentious,
heated discussions.
You absolutely need to writedown what you're going to say.
Tim Bourguignon (44:42):
Amen to that, absolutely yes, very wise, and
really love the way you're goingat it, not just here, but as
well for the questions youmentioned before having a Google
dog being analytical andmethodical for that as well.
It really fits your profile.
Given a couple examples of that, so this advice fits there
(45:03):
nicely, thank you so much forthat.
Sneha Inguva (45:05):
Of course, and I also can't discount the
effectiveness of therapy, whichhas taught me very well how to
have difficult conversationswith people, both everywhere in
life and in the workplace.
I think that is extremelyhelpful.
Tim Bourguignon (45:21):
It is indeed.
Sneha Inguva (45:22):
Yes.
Tim Bourguignon (45:24):
Thank you so much for that.
It's been great.
Yeah, where would be the bestplace to continue this
discussion with you?
Sneha Inguva (45:32):
Of course.
So I'm on Twitter and or X dotcom I guess is what it is called
now at Sneha and Guva, also onInstagram at Sneha and Guva, and
I do have a website which isSneha and Guva dot com.
Tim Bourguignon (45:46):
Wow, is it a comment?
Sneha Inguva (45:48):
No, that is how I got that domain.
There's no way I can get Snehadot com, but I could get.
This actually reminds me one ofthe key things I knew that I
finally was working at a muchlarger tech company Is I looked
up the number of Sneha's atNetflix and there might be 10.
And so one of the Sneha's and Iactually ended up getting
(46:10):
coffee one day and we were veryexcited because it turns out we
both rock climb, but I am maybenine years older than her and
she's a new grad, and so it wasexciting.
And then we actually messagedall the other Sneha's and we had
a or I think we had and plan toagain have a Google Hangout
with all eight Sneha's.
Tim Bourguignon (46:31):
This is so fun.
Sneha Inguva (46:33):
And then we wanted to dress up as Spider-Man for
Halloween and take a photo wherewe're pointing at each other.
Tim Bourguignon (46:40):
I want to see that it's very exciting Next
Halloween.
Sneha Inguva (46:43):
Next Halloween that will have to be the costume
.
Tim Bourguignon (46:47):
I'm writing it down and I'll add all those
links to the show notes.
So if you didn't get that, eventhough it was easy, scroll down
and just like, and it'll bethere.
Thank you so much.
Sneha Inguva (47:01):
Thank you.
Tim Bourguignon (47:02):
And this has been another episode of Delper's
Journey.
We'll see each other next week.
Bye, bye.
Thanks a lot for tuning in.
I hope you have enjoyed thisweek's episode.
If you like the show, pleaseshare, rate and review.
It helps more listenersdiscover those stories.
You can find the links to allthe platforms the show appears
(47:23):
on on our website,devjourneyinfocom.
Subscribe.
Talk to you soon.
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