February 13, 2020 • 59 mins
Thanks to Otis Eyewear for sponsoring this Episode one of the proud sponsors of Soulful Conversations.
In this Episode Ash talks to Tom Carroll the two time world professional surfing champion and hero of pipeline. They spoke about Tom's surfing career, his championships, 'The Snap', The Party Era and substance abuse and the meditation yoga workshops Tom is running in Ulluahtu in June. Tom is now focusing on positive mental health through meditation, the power of now, remaining kind with an ethical focus on life.
Here's what we chatted about:
- Surf-aid International in Indonesia
- Apartheid, Ethics and boycotting surfing events
- Negative Impacts in life and surfing and how to overcome injury in surfing
- World Championship and disqualification
- Surfing Pipeline and rebuilding boards for pipeline
- 'The Snap'
- The party town era, drugs and your ego
- Addiction, substance abuse and being able to ask for help and support in dark times
- Life after competitive surfing
- Life threatening wipe-out on giant waves off the WA coast
- Preparing for a non-breath hold and working towards CO2 tolerant
- Yoga, the journey involved in Meditation and the power of the mind
- Your natural source: Mind, Body
- Change in the world before it's too late, heavy plastic users
Some of our favourite quotes from this episode.
"Now I release I can sit in a storm, back then i didn't release i couldn't sit in a storm. The time of my ankle injury it was the Universe putting me down on the ground for a bit. There is always a gift in the injury"
"Nothing kind of prepares you for when you get hit when you come off on a big wave. When you lose all of the air when you hit the water"
"The addict inside us is not the drug, it's the entity and the humaness that gets skewed towards destruction. We will destroy relationships, our surroundings degredate our health and give everything over to the drug and abandoned everything that loves us and ignore it."
"The mind starts with a thought..and it starts multiplying on itself"
'When we act on a thought make sure it's going to be something that's going to serve you and others"
"Just go for consciousness"
"Change has to happen...We have a lot of power to create better business, we are on a large ocean tanker and need to take action, otherwise it will be a tap on the shoulder for forced change"
"Be part of the solution"
"Be kind to yourself, look at the areas you're not so kind to yourself and make small changes. When you're kind to yourself you start to put it out to others."
Links
Tom Carroll Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/thomasvictorcarroll/
Otis Eyewear Discount Code
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Follow Ash Grunwald on Instagram here
https://www.instagram.com/ashgrunwald/?hl=en
Ash Grunwald Website/Show Dates
https://www.ashgrunwald.com/
Earth Bottles - use promo code ASHLOVESME
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Listen to Ash's latest album 'Mojo' here
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey people, welcome back to soulful conversations.
It's Ash Grunewald here.
And I know it's been a littlebit of a while.
People have been getting ontome.
I'm saying, Hey, when we'regoing to get another, a podcast
happening and I've just beentouring and I've been doing a
lot of songwriting, a lot ofco-writing and um, I just really
haven't had a chance but it'sbeen for a great purpose.
(00:29):
Um, and I've been too busy toeven scratch myself.
But here I am getting this otherone out and this new one out and
you are gonna love it.
Um, but before I do get into thepodcast, I would like to extend
a massive thank you to the goodpeople at Otis eyewear who are
sponsoring this podcast and theyare an Australian brand of
(00:52):
beautiful, beautiful Sonny's.
They even make aviators, which Ilove and they are made of glass,
which is a very rare thing insunglasses.
And most of them are usually,most of the lenses are usually
made of plastic.
You know, at Grunewald H Q hereand certainly at earth bottles
(01:12):
HQ, we are no big fans ofplastic.
Where it doesn't need to beused.
So thank you so much to Otis forhelping us out.
And thanks so much to all of youwho have been sending positive
feedback.
It really does make a hugedifference to me.
I really do read all thecomments and I really do
(01:33):
appreciate it.
So, um, thank you so much.
In the same goes for peoplewho've sent in so many positive
comments about my book, surf byday, jam by night, which is
really covering the same thing.
Um, I really think my music, thepodcast and the book are all
about the same thing.
You know, how best to live yourlife.
You know, what ways every daycan you date your mindset to
(01:56):
lead to a more productive and,and happy life.
You can always tweak it and youcan always learn something new.
So thanks so much to everybodywho's becoming part of this
conversation.
Um, you know, benefiting from it, uh, listening to the staff
reading this stuff, but alsogiving the feedback.
It's just, it's such an amazingthing for me to be, um, a part
(02:18):
of.
And so thank you so much.
Wow.
It's a massive honor to havethis next guest, mr Tom Carroll
on this was a really candidconversation and I'm full of
laughs and you know, he reallyhas done it all.
Um, you know, from the whole protour thing to charging gigantic
(02:40):
mountainous waves with RossClark Jones amphetamine
addiction, you know, these daysbeing the hardcore meditator and
he's now doing some meditationretreats.
All the wire to I want to go.
There's one in June.
But um, yeah, this was just anamazing conversation.
I was very, uh, thankful to Tomfor, to, for making the time, um
(03:03):
, on manly beach.
He was surfing at a charityevent there and he made the time
for a chat and we also filmed itso you can check it out on
YouTube as well.
Um, so without further ado, mrTom Carol, welcome to soulful
conversations with Ash group
Speaker 2 (03:30):
[inaudible].
In this podcast we interview
Speaker 1 (03:33):
barring and amazing people, musicians, surfers and
experts in mindset, creativity,health, wellbeing and making
[inaudible]
Speaker 2 (03:54):
[inaudible] I want to go deep and have a soulful
conversation.
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (04:03):
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Speaker 1 (04:51):
Wow.
In this very special edition ofsoulful conversations, I am here
at manly beach with the legendTom Carol Ash.
How are you going bro?
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm doing good.
Yeah.
Doing good.
I've been in the ocean.
That helps.
Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1 (05:13):
yeah.
So, so there's a lot of, there'sa surf comp going on here.
What's, what's the deal here?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
It's really cool.
This is a, I've been involvedwith SurfAid uh, international
to, uh, it delivers I to mostlyto start it off in the Mentawai
islands in Indonesia by dr DaveJenkins.
Back in the 90s.
And he saw our Navy, he wentsurfing there with a whole bunch
of buddies.
(05:40):
He went on the islands and had alook with local people and met a
few and so have that withliving.
And they saw that he had somebasic, uh, you know, health
issues.
So we're quite, we're shorteningtheir lives and, and also,
especially on infant, uh, inmortality, you know, um,
mortality rates were higher, Ishould say, and it was just
(06:03):
needed to do a couple of basicchanges and that was malaria and
, um, you know, reduce malariawith, uh, mosquito nets.
Um, change the way they cooktheir food, not, not cooking it
inside with a fire.
So they weren't getting gassedout by all, uh, all the smoke,
which was giving themrespiratory diseases and, um,
(06:26):
also getting more nutritionthrough, um, you know, like
planting vegetables, learninghow to actually, um, build
gardens and so on.
So that was just very, veryminimal, um, living.
And now that's all changed.
But, uh, he started off SurfAidinternational national going for
(06:47):
a long time now.
Can't remember what year they'rein now.
Both in 20th year maybe orsomething like that.
So I've been involved with himpretty much the whole way.
And we do an advantage each yearcalled the corporate cup.
It's where it's called the um,uh, the S surfing the corporate
(07:07):
surfing cup that SoFi corporateseven cup.
And they get to all thecorporates come down as chains
and surf a tag team event, sortof different than normal surfing
events, which are moreindividual.
You get a team together, yousurf as a chain and that team, I
turn up as one of the pros andthey bid for you at the beating
(07:29):
of the day to get you on theteam and they throw their money
down inside today they've raised, uh, to this moment, I dunno
what there's, there's an updateand the$182,000 just to die.
Oh my God.
And they ID 5% of that moneygoes to the people in Indonesia,
you know, to the programs runand directed by SF certified in
(07:53):
national, but actually run bythe nation.
So it's a real, it's a model waspicked up by the UN and used in
various, now it's used becauseit's more of a, some more of a
leg up, sort of a, it's notgiving to, it's not just handing
out, it's legging up, um, andhelping people up and, uh, and
(08:13):
to help himself.
So incredibly successful privateprogram and still carries out
today.
And surfers, we just go up to upto these beautiful parrot places
in paradise on boats and landcamps.
Take, take it for granted.
It's all there.
It's all, everyone's all healthyand everything's good.
But on the back side of it, theyjust need all this help.
(08:34):
And then, so as surfers, andthere's a lot of corporate, uh,
crew in your surface in thecorporate world and Sydney, um,
who join in Newcastle, few payfrom Newcastle, Wollongong
today, and they come in and getinvolved in the day and have a
wonderful day, um, out of theoffice.
Wow.
What an amazing thing.
And it's an amazing to feel
Speaker 1 (08:56):
like surfing has actually made improvements
because I guess we know aroundthe world there's the, there's
the old, um, haphazard way of,uh, like almost like surf
ghettos starting up around theplace.
I mean, you would've seen a lotof that happening everywhere.
(09:16):
Um, like people talk about Nassbeing a bit like that and stuff
like that.
It's really good.
Have you seen any other modelsof surfing going into new
places, but them trying torethink it and doing it in a
more ethical way that helps thelocals?
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Uh, it's in central America.
Yeah.
There's places that, uh, sort ofbuilt for, um, health and
wellness, surfing kind ofresorts that bring in the locals
and educate the locals in, incertain practices, get them in
employed within the structure ofthe, of the business and then
(09:54):
then in support families outsidethat, um, I know that happens
there.
Central America is a real goodsurfing spot.
You know, places like Panama,uh, Costa Rica, um, uh, um,
Nicaragua.
Yeah, yeah.
(10:15):
El Salvador, places like this, agood, you know, good surfing
spots that have this sort ofgoing on.
Um, some parts of Asia Pacificcome.
Um, so, you know, in smaller and, and, um, and all ends like
that.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So, um, ethics have been important to you, it seems
through the years, which isEpic.
Um, actually my heritage is, I'ma colored South African from
Cape town, but I haven't everbeen there there.
Um, but am I right in sayingthat you, um, boycotted a couple
(10:58):
of comps because of apartheid?
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Yes, I did.
Yeah.
I made a stand against apartheidin 1985 after I won my second
world title.
Uh, if I found it, um, a greatopportunity to, as a world
champion at that time was a realtime.
It was a time thing, like itwas, you know, every time I went
(11:21):
to South Africa and I saw whatwas going on there, the less I
could get behind that, uh, so inmyself, and it was a, um, and
being seen as an, as a worldchampion Australian world
champion supporting it.
Yeah.
Uh, the obligation to step upwas, um, profound.
(11:45):
So, uh, that also, you know,like along a lot of stuff comes
along with, you know, thefeeling of being up there in
front of every on there's aworld champion at that time
particularly.
And, uh, and actually I, thefact that I actually, you know,
I look back on, I did that at 24years old.
I, um, I got, wow, that's, youknow, today I still go.
(12:06):
You are like, that's fantastic.
You know, I really feel, uh,that it came from a real natural
place within me to, or wasn't totell someone they're wrong.
It wasn't to tell this, this wasjust simply, I just don't
support it.
I can't support a apartheid.
And if I can make someone justthink that maybe it's not a good
(12:28):
idea, just one person, uh, thenall dumb, dumb a job and kind of
how it sort of started to pop.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
That's absolutely amazing.
And that was a, um, a hugesacrifice at the time, I'm sure.
Um, would ha, did you win thatyear?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Uh, no.
I ended up coming second to TomCurran.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He actually, he actually didn'tdo South Africa too.
He followed suit.
So it was kinda cool.
We, we, we showed that we didn'tneed it to do it.
Uh, so, and um, Tom Karen was,he was a real tough one.
(13:10):
Um, uh, I actually had a, thereason I, I actually fell away
that year is because I, I am, Ihurt my ankle after the first
two events.
I won the first two events aftermaking my decision on South
Africa, uh, against apartheid.
And then, um, going into thenext year, I won the first two
(13:31):
events of the year.
I felt like I was on fire.
I felt someone point am I camehome on an injury medical, and I
tell you, when you engineerankle and surfing, it's like,
it's, it's the hinge to yourmagic carpet.
So, you know, if that hingeisn't just wild up and just go
out, and I got a lot of range inmy ankle and it just, just suck
(13:53):
the confidence out of me.
It took me six months to getback to form.
So it was a brutal, uh, Brilltiming.
But it also gave me times spaceto sort of see how it was, uh,
in regard to my decision inSouth Africa too and solidify it
was quite unstable.
(14:15):
Um, the response that I got fromit, there was some really
positive stuff and I wasn'tready for the other stuff.
So being 24, I was pretty naivein that area.
Um, yeah, definitely.
You know, today I would bring atotally different thing for me,
but, uh, thing young and youknow, world champion guy and you
(14:36):
know, like, um, and uh, thenatural normal, the natural
force where it came from wasalways there and always been
there.
But me on the outside, I'm like,Whoa.
You know, I often
Speaker 1 (14:51):
find that
Speaker 4 (14:52):
now I have found that over the years when I've taken
ethical stance on things and I'mtotally up for it and totally
mean it and I'm really proud ofthose things too.
Um, but I'm never ready for theflack because I, you know, you,
you don't even choose thosethings.
It's like you'll find yourselfin the situation.
Then you have, you make anethical choice and then when you
(15:13):
get the flack, it can be reallyhard.
Yeah.
It's a storm, like it's a stormof sorts.
So I'm now realize I can sort ofsit in a storm, uh, I can sit in
the middle of the storm and takethe kind of the sand blast a bit
today, whereas mm.
Back then I wasn't ready forthat.
So I kind of got brushed aroundby the storm a bit.
(15:36):
Um, and uh, before I sort of getmy feet back on the ground.
And I think that time that, thatankle injury was, uh, uh, kind
of, uh, kind of the universe,God.
Okay.
Well, and it's gonna slap youdown a little, just put you down
on the ground just for a bit,just to figure this out and make
sure you're right with this.
And so that's what helped me.
(15:56):
Uh, and that was the gift.
And the injury is always a giftin the injury.
You know, there's always a gift.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So I noticed that, um , I noticed in the way that
you're speaking there, uh,attendancy I guess, um, do you
use your, uh, way or beliefsystem or way of looking at life
sometimes to see, okay, whensomething negative hits you,
like why did this happen?
And sort of try and reverseengineer a positive out of it.
(16:25):
I like that reverse essentially
Speaker 4 (16:26):
his stuff.
Um, although usually I'm, yeah,if I'm in the pine, I don't see
it.
Um, a, if I'm in the, uh, theanger and the res, the reaction
to it, like I don't see it andit's usually takes a bit of time
to settle that down, maybesometimes longer than others.
But, um, you know, life is, is,isn't, you know, times it
(16:51):
doesn't seem fair.
Like, and you're going to gethit.
Um, we're all gonna get hit atsome point.
And so I think at some level,um, you know, having good
support, having good crew thatyou're connected to, and now
that's when the connectionsreally help.
Um, good, good, connected withreally good people.
(17:11):
Um, with love, you know, thatsort of, that really old,
powerful, uh, force kind of cankind of help us sort of ground
out, ground down and, and um,and see it for what it really is
the situation.
And definitely turn it, make itturn, turning kind of you, you
don't really like, and quiteoften it's, he kinda make a
(17:34):
choice I guess, but it's a moreof a turning of, of the, yeah,
you kind of turn it.
Oh, okay.
Well, Hmm, let's get aperspective on this that, that
may be a little different thanyou, you kinda kind of victim
state or, you know, like what amI saying, the reality of the
situation.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Cause I find that like, um, it's good to sort of
try and flip situations in a, inlike you get a shit situation
happen, but I often try and flipit so that my way of looking at
that
Speaker 5 (18:07):
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (18:07):
serves me in my life and then somebody will come and
tell you, Oh, you're justdiluting yourself.
You know, you're just trying tobe positive thinking.
And that's always somebody who'sdepressed as fuck.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They want to genuinely wouldlike to see and not in a good
spice.
So yeah, kind of skip, just bewary of those pipelines I make.
Um, yeah, and I think it's, uh,but that's, that's kind of
strengthening up the boundariesfor yourself so you can see that
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I heard it being said , um, and I was just quoting it
at my, um, book thing that I didyesterday, but it was like you
are the summary of the fivepeople that you hang out with
the most.
So you gotta really have a lookaround because you adopt those
patterns, whether it is lookingat things positively or
negative,
Speaker 4 (18:58):
that makes sense or that makes a lot of sense.
I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So I've got one of those key things I remember from
reading your book years ago wasI would, I'd be right in saying
this, that you, cause I didn'tlook this up on Wikipedia
yesterday or anything, but didyou, you would have won a third
world title if it wasn't for onepedal stroke.
Is that right?
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Pretty much.
Um, it was, um, it was atechnicality and for what they
call an interference call, um,against me in hotline nine 98.
Uh, and, uh, I was pretty, Iwouldn't say I had a handle on
my nervous system at that point.
(19:42):
I was pretty sort of highlystrong.
Um, I was looking at everyopportunity, uh, on the, in the
[inaudible] on that, in that, atthat moment and maybe too much.
I didn't have a look.
I didn't have a step back andthe boys didn't, I didn't have a
(20:04):
, uh, ability to step back.
Um, I was just too hard onmyself at that point.
But, um, I would always just, Iwas, I was two heats away
actually from a world title, soI need to just get through that
hate.
And another one, uh,
Speaker 1 (20:20):
well you're winning in that heat.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
I was, I was ahead and this guy was just jarring to
hell for leather and was a man,Oh man.
Um, hate.
And um, it was, there was thefirst male man, uh, contest at
pipeline, um, ever.
So it was very odd just to beout there with one other person.
But he was a vicious competitor.
He just wanted, he was actuallyon a death wish.
(20:43):
He was just gonna go foranything anyway, but he just, he
, he saw the to any, any momentto sort of get me on an
interference.
And I wasn't clued into that.
I was just looking for what Iwanted and I didn't actually see
how he was responding to thesituation.
So yeah, Todd Hahn, um, as iswho was there with me, a
(21:05):
competing, I just mean he sawthe opportunity, uh, on this
technicality.
It was a ruling that theybrought in.
So the judges didn't have to,well, I could just call it
interference if even if youpaddling, if you didn't have
priority, you have a surfer heldpriority and you paddled for a
(21:26):
line of swell from one end ofthe beach, the other, uh, that
could call you an interferencecall.
An interference on yet.
So it was a technicality.
So I didn't, my hands, all Ihave to do is just look at the
wave.
And that was, it didn't have toleave.
The rail didn't have to takeoff.
So he, he actually pedaled in, Ihad a look at this wave.
(21:49):
It was like a crazy one, but Ithought, I don't want to miss
something that's good.
And he actually saw me go for itbehind me and outside me and he
just took it no matter what,just took off on golf match.
Yeah.
So yeah.
And so he went, um, and then Igot called interference.
I still want him one judge'sshape, uh, with two ways,
(22:13):
against three ways.
So at the end of the heat, so,uh, I was, I was so far ahead of
him with the tone.
I didn't need to do that.
I could have just kicked backand relaxed and just allowed him
to be that gung-ho, crazy guythat he was at that time.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
And did you replay that over and over and all those
details a lot in subsequentdays, months, years.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
In a way.
I kind of buried it, you know, Iwent, I went for that bearing
act.
It doesn't really work, but Ithought I let it out.
You know, like I kind of came infrom that.
I was so angry.
I came in, I made a super angry,so frustrated my team, super
frustrating me.
I was like really bombed.
(23:02):
I mean that gun in Miranda carshare the steering wheel for as
far along as, I couldn't tell itback a little bloody.
I was like, really?
I was really angry, reallyangry.
Alan don't do anger very well.
Not like a, a really angryperson, you know, like, and I
never have had that in my life.
I never had that example from afather.
(23:22):
I never had that.
He's only angry when we need it,you know, like it always saw
that.
But, um, but that was a kind ofanger that calm I'd never seen
in myself and uh, and that waspretty scary.
So I just shoved it down yeah.
For a while.
And I didn't really see myselffor what I really was for war.
(23:42):
Right.
Um, and I, it took me a while,but in that process I actually
buried any kind of, uh, idea ofgetting back home, a tour and
gun for another world title.
I just buried it.
I said, no, I'm not going to putthat kind of energy into a
system that literally only thatnight, six hours later when they
(24:05):
had the annual general meeting,there is P abolish that rule.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
And today you wouldn't sayanything like that because it
just doesn't go with the yeah.
And, um, it's, um, it was justdraconian.
Uh, but it was what it was.
And I, and, um, that pipelinehas been such an amazing place
(24:29):
for me.
It's been that, and it's beenlike, it's been every kind of
end of the spectrum for me thatbreak and it's shown me and
taught me all these incrediblelessons and taken me to places I
just couldn't do on my own.
So, uh, I recognize that breakas being a kind of place.
(24:50):
You're like, my ashes will bespread, you know, that sort of
place.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Definitely.
And it's his stuff.
It's the stuff of legend, your,uh, your, um, vibe at pipe and
your understanding of pipe andhow you serve it.
And it must have been amazing todo that master's thing and have
that sort and feel vindicatedwhen you surf that in the way
that you did.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Oh yeah.
That was really cool.
That was again, that was, thatwas really about, um,[inaudible]
me, um, kinda get givingeverything in a golf from that
to charity and, and just goingand having a surf and all of a
sudden things just sort offriend, um, kind of allowed me
(25:37):
to kind of get the exact wisethat I needed to express myself.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Were you, um, were you back on, um, a replica boat
or older equipment that you usedto ride in that era that you
were winning pipe all the time?
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Yeah, so when they um, asked me if I'd like to do
that heat, I thought, Oh, bereally cool to get that Oh,
board, um, get, get all the dimsoff it and try to make the file
again.
Um, I did that with Pat Rossenwho was my shaper back in 80s
and the nineties.
There still is.
And Pat and I actually saw himthis and helped me work on the
(26:16):
fall as well and uh, and getspecific dimensions.
Right.
And by basically re rebuilt thatboard and I might a little bit
thicker because back then it wasrolled him so thin and narrow.
It was just, it just didn't moldinto how it was today.
So I just sort of just pumped itup a little bit, made it a
little bit easier for myself outthere.
And the board just wentbeautifully.
(26:38):
Yeah.
I hadn't written the boardbefore the heat, so I was like
going wow.
And it just, it did everything Icould love to do.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
And um, and the way you rode on like, like that's
longer equipment that would beused for the foot pipe now.
Um, or is it because you can,you can fill me in on that.
Is it a different line that youtook?
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Yeah.
So that those boards areprobably about, well, mine's
seven eight, that board that Iwas writing today, they'd be
running six, six, six, six tensmaybe on that sort of, you know,
like secondary pipe, maybeseven.
Oh, these guys are on real shortboards dropping out from the NIC
.
The way they're turning in it,like they're just playing with
(27:24):
pot now.
Like it's, I could still do wife.
Oh cha always wanted to do so,but I was so came from this
school of you've got to have alonger board, you've got to have
this big long gun, you know,they're quite beautiful boards,
slick like spews, you know, anduh, but to ride them, demand a
(27:45):
different line, be taken on thewave.
But I used to definitely try totake them as light as I could
get out underneath it.
Um, which those guys are doingregularly today.
Like it's nothing for these guystoday.
So they are really taking it tothe next level and um, uh, and
writing short equipment.
And it's, it's tricky to surfshort equipment out there.
(28:05):
Um, I could paddle into it.
I'm a bit further out.
I had a lot more confidence inmy equipment, um, on anything I
could be confident riding a six,six or 16 out there at that
size, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
But with that length, you were still able to do the
snap?
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, I could because I used to train on the
longer boards.
I used to go at an eight footboard, was the big brother to
that board and just surf thatfor like two weeks in all kinds
of conditions.
So I knew that I'd be ready formy seven fours and seven eights
and seven hours.
If I was riding and training onsomething bigger, longer,
(28:42):
Lynelle could come back andlisten up.
So that's how I, that's how Iused to play it.
Yeah.
Wow.
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Um, and yeah, so people check out the snap all
the surface will know what we'retalking about.
Then when did you do that?
Was that crazy vertical turn youdid in the barrel and that was
in a final, wasn't it?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Um, actually it was a preliminary around the day
before.
Yeah.
Um, uh, and that was, um, in1991 to, yeah, the seminar.
Any wine and it's, uh, the pipemasters, uh, the seminar only
one, you should be sponsored bythis Japanese.
Um, uh, I think it was a, adepartment store chain called
(29:23):
Marie and they used to give outthese amazing samurai helmets
when you won that event.
And, and that was so cool.
I got a, I got a hanging out athome.
It's so cool.
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (29:38):
that's cool.
So I mean, I can imagine, um, itwas like potty town in, that was
the, I mean to me, I see it isthat era was the height of Coke
and all that that kind of carryon.
Um, so you sort of documented alot about that era.
Like how was it in those days?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Well, it's kinda like it was potty town or it like, it
was, you know, we didn't havesocial media, we didn't have any
of that stuff, sort of wheels.
It was pretty free flowing.
Um, whatever was going on and itwas, it was hardcore to those.
There was some things going onthat we didn't really need to be
involved in, you know, um, asathletes particularly.
(30:20):
But it was just, their stuff wasflying and it was fun until it
wasn't fun.
You know, it's, that stuff is,you know, it's cool but fun for
a bit.
And then, uh, and the reality ofit, it's quite different.
But, um, uh, and can get a gripon us.
(30:40):
It's like, uh, cause I like theadrenaline.
I'm an adrenaline junkie, soanything that matches the
adrenaline, um, was like, I justlock onto it.
And I love that stuff.
Particularly anything, it kindof boosted my ego.
Like, you know, I cut kinds ofdefinitely the ego drug.
Like, you know, it's like youcan almost not have to do
(31:02):
anything.
And do you think in your reallygood, well you can't.
Yeah.
It's like, yeah, I am killing itlike differently.
Everything I'm saying right nowis the best thing that's ever
been said.
So, uh, it can happen that way.
So for all of us, and at thattime it was, it was free.
(31:24):
Flying goes a lot, a lot ofaction going on.
Uh, you know, like I said, itwas someone, it was a lot of fun
and I wouldn't change any ofthat stuff for anything.
It was, it was a huge adventure.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
So you got to the stage like after a while and
probably after pro days andwhatever, and then getting into,
did you get into ice for awhilethere?
And that got really heavy.
Uh, how did you cause people getthe way I see it.
I mean, I hate ice, like thatepidemic has swept and
(31:59):
especially the youth.
Um, but it must be just so hardto get off.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
Well, it's super, it's so sad that it's a, it's
like this for us humans, a humanexperience is such that, uh, you
know, if we feel like we'retrapped in some sort of way, if
we feel like we haven't, ifwe're really, really challenged
in life and we're Delta HOD blowand then someone sort of
(32:26):
validates that with somethingthat I'm gonna blow up, bikes is
feel better about ourselves.
Yeah.
Substance of anything.
What?
It could be alcohol, it could beanything.
That's somebody that matchesthat part of us that kind of
wants more.
Um, which we all have.
There's no, no one skips thatone except part of the human
experience.
Right.
So, you know, sugar take sugarfor once.
(32:49):
Troy, that's a tricky one.
But the, um, uh, that all eyes,the crystal methamphetamines, I
like love it.
It's such a good drug.
Like it's, you know, it's, it'slike I recommend, yeah.
It's like, Oh, I thought thatit's that good.
I can't, it's, it's, it's not,not a good, not good for me to
(33:11):
match that up.
And it's not good for PR, notgood for us to trade hours, you
know, a system in such, um, itcan make us do some of the
weirdest shit ever.
You never think of this stuff,you know, like really, uh, where
it's going to take you.
If you continue using it.
It's like, uh, it's gonna it'sactually our, uh, the, uh,
(33:31):
addict and saw it as, it's notthe drug, it's the, it's the
entity, the humanist inside us.
It gets skewed and towards justdestruction.
And so we will destroyrelationships.
We will destroy oursurroundings, we'll take, regain
our health, will just giveeverything completely and
(33:51):
utterly over to the drug andabandon everything that's good
to us or for us and around usthat loves us and ignore it for
the drug and or whatever itmight be.
It could be something else.
But, um, and when we kick outaddict off in[inaudible] with
such a thing, um, entity such asa drug or, or an I behavior or a
(34:17):
or an active, anything, um, man,where, where opening account
wounds our self and others andthere's a ripple effect.
It's so damaging.
It just, but the reverse canhappen if, if you turn around
and ask for help because what itdoes is the addict goes off on
its own and, and on its ownmission of disrupted
(34:38):
self-destruction.
And it's always a downward Hill.
[inaudible] might have a littleillusions.
It, it's always an illusion.
You, you might be going up Hill,you're going down, he gives kind
of guy down.
It's going to get ugly if youcontinue.
So the coolest thing is as soonas you just open a, you know, if
(35:00):
you're in a really bad, bad spotand you just reach out and it
makes no sense at all for Hill,he just, that's another turning
on.
I'm talking about, it's kindaturn, we turn and ask for help,
let's move in a differentdirection.
So all of a sudden all this helpcomes like, it's just crazy.
It's so cool.
(35:20):
Like just make that move and uh,and, and there's so much help
for us.
I like, I was flabbergasted.
And how much actually supportthere is once we tap into that
power, um, that's the only powerthat could actually, I could get
(35:41):
before I could get the power,you know, start building that
strength up in inside me becauseI can't do it on mine.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Right.
So that was the turning point.
It was asking for help and thenthat,
Speaker 4 (35:52):
yeah, and usually you gotta for us willful competitive
, uh, you know, motherfuckerswho just, you know, like, I'm
going to do this.
No worry.
I've got it.
I've got it.
You know, that willfulness, it'sso powerful that it just takes
us down.
And, um, and until that getsbroken and snapped and cracked
(36:15):
the crack foams, you know, uh,Glenn Cohen talks about that a
crack, you know, that forms andit lets the light in, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a beautiful song and, andstill come back.
Everyone has the crack, youknow, the cracks that you gotta
let the light in, into thecrack, you know, and the cracks
are forming any imperfections.
(36:37):
And so, uh, and then we, thenthe help, you know, then you
start getting this, thisincredible support.
Um, but we definitely have to bein a fetal position.
I needed to be in a fetalposition crying mommy sucking my
thumb or whatever it was in anude, I don't know.
Oh, it's like things, thingsweren't too good.
(36:58):
Like I love him, but now,thankfully,
Speaker 1 (36:59):
yeah, I mean, that's lucky.
It's just such a shame that wealways have to hit bloody rock
bottom before you that crackfoams.
Speaking of the fetal position,I love, I love asking these
question.
Um, so you, um, aftercompetitive surfing, then you
(37:19):
thought, okay, now I have tostart chasing gigantic waves and
do massive toe ins to 50 footdeaths labs.
Um, so can you just share for uspunters a scary kind of
situation where you thought orif not, if it never happened.
Wow, this is pretty heavy.
(37:40):
I think maybe mommy,
Speaker 4 (37:42):
I don't know.
Mom.
Me not me.
Well, I did a series of showsand a movie with Proskauer Jones
, um, called storm surfers.
And I think some of the momentsI had with Ross, uh, during that
show were kinda pretty old time.
Like it's, it's, it's all time,you know, certainly with Ross
(38:06):
kind of thing.
Um, yeah.
God bless him.
He's such a good guy.
Like we has such a good, youknow, we've had such good times
together.
He, he, um, but we kinda gotthat sign kind of energy when it
clicks on and we kind of getunderstanding without words, you
know, you get that sort offeeling with someone.
You probably haven't any music,you know, you're on stage and
(38:27):
you've got musician gun, youkinda don't need to do anything.
You kinda, it'll kind of, itmoves along.
And he of get frustrated fromTom Tom if that's not working
right.
And it's kind of just my shit,whatever.
But yeah, but a Merz is energychemistry had kind of pumps it
all along and pumps up.
Well that's what happened withRoss and iron.
(38:48):
But it used to get us in as muchas crazy situations.
Like we were way out of WesternAustralian coastline.
Like, Whoa.
Like, like thankfully I had alot of stuff around us, but
we'll, why aren't there, um, 70in order Kamala's off the
Western certain coastline inthis one brief we'd never been
(39:11):
out to, where were these mad cryfishermen?
One was, his name was Skiles andSkiles Skiles vape.
We, we, we started a 2:00 AMstar Geraldton, uh, hit it out
from there.
West towards is a riff on thisbig swell and ugly wind.
And, and he was already smokingjoints.
(39:32):
Yeah.
Drinking cans, you know,[inaudible] cycles on, you know,
and we added these heavy suitand we got out there and we were
shooting a three D and we'reshooting heli, we're shooting
all kinds of different stuff.
We've got two big boats, but noone, nothing kind of prepares
you like, um, for when, whathappens when, when you get hit,
(39:55):
like sometimes when you come offon a big wave, you don't, this
is why we try and empty lunghold downs is that you lose all
the air when you hit the water.
And this is what happened forme.
I lost my air as I was halfwaydown the face, hit the water
last Summa air and I couldn'tget a breath.
(40:15):
I got lifted up by the wife andthen thrown out by the wives,
said sort of skip thiswhitelists kind of spin with no
hair and then shoved down downand then rolled on, rolled on
for, I don't know how long itwas, but it was scary.
(40:35):
I didn't think my, I actuallytook a breath before I got up in
the whitewater because Icouldn't take it any longer.
But I've been down for way toolong and uh, I had this, we got
these really cool, um,inflatable vest now gives you a
bit of confidence, uh, to kindof be able to come up.
(40:57):
But we actually had Mike shiftfunds, we've kind of made
ourselves or we got someone tokind of stitch together and it
blew out on the walkout so Icouldn't find the rip cord.
So I had a gun.
I've spent too much time tryingto find this cord and I only had
seconds so, and I spent too muchtime using my nerve on that
(41:24):
cause it's kind of, yeah.
Or thinking to yourself.
Ah, it'll fight.
That'll get, that'll get, I'llbe able to get up cause it felt
date cause I opened my eyes,open my eyes in it and it was
dark, you know, and it's darkand an atheist and you know, you
deep so you kind of open up, Ohit's dark.
I'm like can't see light rightnow.
(41:46):
So I was underneath a lot, a lotof white water getting roll and
blacked out.
And so I'm like okay, which wayis up down?
And I'm getting rolled androlled, getting rolled.
And I couldn't tell.
I just had to let go and try tofind this thing.
I had enough nerve to do that,but I kind of ran out on that,
(42:10):
you know?
So, and then I had to kind ofmake my way, no matter what to
some sort of light, which Icould just start to see.
And then you start seeing thethreads of light through the
whitewater and then you kind ofstart going towards them.
And I started going towards themand I was felt like I had drag
on me.
Now this thing, you know, I likegetting up, trying to get up and
(42:33):
I felt like forever and I'llkinda, I might not make it and,
uh, but I'll have to keep going.
I've got to keep pushing andI've got to near what felt like
near the surface and it took alittle breath, the white water,
and then I popped up, likeliterally like did that, and
(42:54):
then I came to the surface.
So I was already moving upwardstowards the surface with a
buoyancy of more wet suit andthe vest.
Um, so I've got the surface andI was just coughing and carrying
on and thankfully it was knowotherwise.
And Ross was able to pluck meout.
That was sort of the mostrecent, really tough one.
(43:18):
And did you think you were donefor yeah.
Just got that feeling.
Well maybe I'm going to go here.
I don't know.
Yeah, I have that can get youthere.
I had a bunch of people aroundthat would've pulled me.
Yeah.
But then you only got fewmoments to do with, you know,
with resuscitation and stuff.
So resuscitation is superimportant at that point and uh,
(43:40):
making sure, yeah.
Getting to safety and getting,um, the air back in there.
Yeah.
Getting any sort of circulationto might be compromised, but
yeah, that was, I was felt luckythat I came up that time.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
And obviously you've gone in heavy on the breath
stuff.
Like you can hold your breathfor a very long time.
Uh, I, it's not hope, but it'snot breath holding that you do
though with breast training.
Is it?
It's, it's uh, preparing for anon breath hold kind of thing.
It's
Speaker 4 (44:11):
getting CIT tolerant.
So it's, um, so that's what wework towards.
So the body works under stress,um, better.
And actually the nervous systemgets toned by that work.
Similar to when we didmeditation, but this is a
different style.
It's actually working with thebreath.
Um, we're tapping or this crazychemical makeup in our body
(44:33):
that's already sitting there.
It's pretty, pretty phenomenalactually what we can tap into
just with our breath.
Yeah.
So once we kind of started workwith the breath in that way
[inaudible] uh, it gives us, itgives us a, a confidence
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (44:51):
have you got wacky with the breath?
If you've got shower manic withthe breath?
Speaker 4 (44:55):
A couple of moments where I definitely felt like I
was getting lifted out of mybody.
Um, and looking back.
Oh, and that was after, that wasafter heavy breath work.
Like really heavy breath work,like the Wim Hoff stuff.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
People on this podcast.
Uh, no stranger.
I froth on the half every time.
I love doing Wim Hof breathingand I love, I like, I like
trippy stuff too, so I like, um,uh, I really, I feel like your
buddy gives you a little reward.
Like last night I did, um, awhole lot of Wim Hof stuff in
(45:34):
the hotel room and some pushupsand then some more half and um,
put on different YouTube clipson my phone and just listen to
them and, and do, and I startedto get some really good purple
lights going.
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
The natural stuff come in.
It's you, it's you.
It's Ash.
It's Ash sort of popping[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (45:54):
I honestly high on your own supply.
Yeah, man.
You're doing great man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's great.
So you got some, um, retreatsgoing on.
You're going to be doing one inJune, which I would love to get
to if I can.
What's going on with that thing?
Speaker 4 (46:11):
Uh, so, um, I'm getting together with, um,
[inaudible] fillers, uh, andI've got my partner, Mary has
helped me and she's the backboneof stuff, you know, she's
awesome.
And, um, and all the currentsurf we've got.
Um, uh, Philly, she's abeautiful, a yoga teacher.
(46:31):
I mean, just an amazing, uh,human, she really delivers a
beautiful, beautiful class.
It's a, an extraordinary why she, um, delivers her her classes
and actually explains, eh, with,with beautiful, uh, uh, dividing
knowledge.
It's the Vidas, you know, shepulls out of the Vedas and, and
(46:55):
works with all this beautifulknowledge and delivers the cost
in such a, a seamless fashion,uh, instead of Texas all on a
journey in, during the classwithin ourself, which is, uh,
like I've never felt with a yogateacher before.
So I'm really happy to havePhilly on board.
We've got, um, uh, my, mydaughter Jenna Carol, she's,
(47:18):
she's, um, really finely tuningher, um, uh, her own healing,
um, strengths around healingstrengths through natruopathy.
So, uh, yeah, and her bringingher insights along.
So helping with nutrition and,and um, and natruopathy also,
(47:41):
I'll be taking everyone throughthe Vedic tape, uh, meditation
technique.
So, um, and if, if you want, Ican give you your mantra there
and, uh, and take you, you know,in get, you mean on a good
routine on the practice twice aday throughout the six days.
(48:04):
So, yeah.
And that's, that's the, that'sthe aim to actually get people
in on the practice meditation.
I think meditation is a realneed of the time.
It's, um, it seems to bebecoming a lot more bold, more
popular.
But it's something that, for mepersonally, I know it's really
(48:24):
helped me a lot in the last 13years of practice.
It's, it's given me, it'sparticularly this kind of
practice twice a day, 20minutes, twice a day, and using
the mantra, a mantra is, man ishis mind trial, car, mind, car.
So we're hopping inside thevehicle that takes us to tourism
(48:47):
, transcend the mind and theminds.
Yeah.
Full of thoughts.
Right.
And you know, and everythingstarts with a thought, you know,
look at these earth poles,right?
They start with a thought, onethought.
Yeah.
You know, and uh, and it's, it'sa beautiful thought that had to
(49:09):
start with one thought.
And then it starts multiplyingon itself.
So we, we've got an urgent,urgent, I think, um,
responsibility to that.
The, you know, to understandthat for the first thought that
(49:30):
comes to a head just to, thatmight get big, just a lap to
come and go.
But when we act on a thought,make sure that that thought is,
is going to be something that'sgoing to serve you and others so
that we really, so this is whatthe meditation is about.
Look, no one's perfect.
We're not going for perfectionhere.
It's like chess making progresstowards making a preference to
(49:56):
keep a system, this incrediblebody, this, this thing that we
kind of hanging out with it'sass to hang out.
It's going to have the last sideby, it's going to have the last
sight, right?
Getting the, the, the mind, thebody and the nervous system
between just to sort of movetogether in a really nice, uh,
uniform movement so it's notfighting itself.
(50:20):
But that's the key, uh, with themeditation, you know, um, you
know, tapping into your, yournatural source too.
I think, um, that's within us.
And going in for in a referral.
So we're not really, you know,looking in with, um, going for
consciousness all the time.
(50:43):
Just go for consciousness.
So that's what we do with thepractice.
That's all it is really.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Well, that is so cool because, um, I don't know if you
know, but like in this podcast,that's what I've been, everybody
has been asked about meditationand what they do and also the
breath work and stuff.
And I didn't know you were, I'mso deep into that.
That's very, very cool.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:06):
We'll see things like this, pull people together.
Right.
Yeah.
That's no surprise to me thatwe're here today talking.
So that's so cool.
Uh, and by the way, thanks forcoming on board.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Awesome product.
We're trying to address theplus.
Oh yes.
Earth bottles.
Yo.
Yeah, it's really cool.
It's really cool.
What, um, you know, all thething, you know, that, um,
anything that there's so muchthat can be done these days, um,
to fix, to help fix the planetand redress the problems that,
(51:40):
um, have been created.
And, you know, to some extent asmassive corporations, we could
go on a side thing about that,but it's business that got us
into this.
But it's kinda like be coolbusiness.
They can get us out of this tosome extent.
Speaker 4 (51:53):
Yeah.
And I think changes, it has tohappen.
And uh, it's funny how theuniverse, uh, you know, I love
when it's explained to myuniverse, uni one verse song,
one song, the one song that'splaying, being played out and
vibrating between every singleliving thing on the planet right
(52:15):
now, like that water went in mymouth that wanted to join it.
It, um, it's, it's, it's goingto have strong feedback, you
know, um, it's already havingprofound feedback.
We don't quite sure about ityet.
Uh, we want, we have a lot ofpower to act, to create better
(52:38):
business.
Uh, we've got a lot of power.
We can actually take action to,um, steer it and it is a big,
big ship by give a, try to steerone of those thousand foot
tankers.
So like, where am I, where am Ilike a 50,000 Mol tanker?
We need to, you know, startturning this baby right now and
(52:59):
making, taking action.
Otherwise it's going to be like,it'll be a tap on the shoulder,
warmed on him.
Yeah.
It happens to us a little wisein our body.
He got something wrong.
Tone, you know, like you got tosaw a knee, Tom T T uh, Aw, he's
really hurt.
Not, not, you know, I couldn'tdo it.
Bang, bang.
There's gonna be a slap in thehead.
(53:20):
There's going to be a baseballbat over the head until you
like, you know, again, you're onthe ground.
Uh, and then the body's gone.
You have to do something aboutthis time.
So, and that's the way natureis.
We are nature and that's whatnature's going to do.
Taking action like this thatyou've done with earth bottles
and just small actions on adaily basis in Tai, you're
(53:42):
reducing our plastic usage, uh,uh, individual by actually
educating the next person aboutit.
Just say, look, this is whatwe're doing.
You know, this is what we cando.
Just try to, you know, try topick this one back.
It's a, it is a song suffocateor because I was just in a mommy
Island in Japan, which is justabove Okinawan.
(54:05):
It's got Taiwan, it's got China,it's got Korea, it's got Japan
all around it.
It's got in an Asia, Oh, heavyplastic uses.
I'm unloading the rivers and uh,the systems, uh, trying to deal
with all this plastic all outthere.
And the Pacific ocean justrevolving around the
(54:25):
microplastics on the beach thatI saw were just really sad.
Um, it's very sad and it'sreally disheartening.
But, um, humans, we're prettygood at coming up with good
stuff I think.
And uh, and, and well, I hope wecan start to work towards, cause
(54:47):
we got a big one coming to it.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
That's all I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we just can't yet, thehopelessness and the paralysis
is no good.
You know, we just need to getinto it, enjoy, you know, have a
good, have a good time while wedo it and like enjoy being part
of the solution and making asolution.
Speaker 4 (55:07):
Perfect.
That's, yeah.
Let's be part of the solution.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
So in closing, um, is there any advice?
I mean, I think a lot of mystuff, um, including my book was
about this too.
I said at the start of it thatit was, I was hoping for anybody
stuck in a rut that it wouldserve as the philosophical
spatula to get you unstuck.
Um, and then somebody suggestedat gigs, I have a merchant item
(55:34):
that, a philosophical spatulasthat, um, yeah.
Do you have any of those justyeah.
That you, that you think, youknow, people could use or you
know, to make a change or any,anything you would suggest that
something you've found in yourlife that just is a key to
(55:54):
happiness or joy or, or
Speaker 4 (55:56):
anything like that?
Um, I think just being kind toyourself.
Uh, first I think, um, look atthe areas where you're not, so
kind to yourself and just sortamake small changes where you
can, a big, if you can, butreally sort of, uh, towards
(56:17):
being kind to ourselves.
Uh, and towards itself, uh, westart to sort of put that out
there to others.
So it's just a start ofsomething a lot bigger, um, and
do that slowly but methodicallyif he can.
Um, don't beat up on yourself.
(56:39):
Um, be very kind to yourself.
And I think, um, the great bookto read, I think it's kind of,
uh, been a real strong one forme and I pick it up from time to
time and just read bits of itand it always repeats itself.
It doesn't, but I somehow alwaystake on something different.
Every time I read something evenit's the same thing.
(57:03):
Uh, and that's, um, echo tellspower of now.
I love that.
Yeah.
We, we, we, we, we got up, movedtowards, well, you don't have
to, it's nice to move towardthat stuff.
And uh, he's got a book calledpracticing the power now, which
is a wonderful little book thatyou consider carry around.
It's not as chunky.
(57:24):
Um, but that, that alsopracticing the power of now is
Cracker.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
My last album was called now and it featured a now
clock on the front and it wasjust like now, now, now, now.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Wow.
I love.
I love a cat.
He's the man, isn't it?
He has a way to plastic, youknow, like so slow.
You got, what's it going to say?
(57:50):
Eh?
Well, thank you so much,brother.
What a great podcast.
Thanks so much for that.
It's a pleasure.
My pleasure, Ash.
Really love it.
Cheers.
You too.
It's an honor.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
Every stupid day.
Speaker 6 (58:34):
[inaudible]
Speaker 2 (59:08):
[inaudible] [inaudible] stupid thing.
Speaker 6 (59:21):
[inaudible].
Hey people, welcome back to soulful conversations.
It's Ash Grunewald here.
And I know it's been a littlebit of a while.
People have been getting ontome.
I'm saying, Hey, when we'regoing to get another, a podcast
happening and I've just beentouring and I've been doing a
lot of songwriting, a lot ofco-writing and um, I just really
haven't had a chance but it'sbeen for a great purpose.
(00:29):
Um, and I've been too busy toeven scratch myself.
But here I am getting this otherone out and this new one out and
you are gonna love it.
Um, but before I do get into thepodcast, I would like to extend
a massive thank you to the goodpeople at Otis eyewear who are
sponsoring this podcast and theyare an Australian brand of
(00:52):
beautiful, beautiful Sonny's.
They even make aviators, which Ilove and they are made of glass,
which is a very rare thing insunglasses.
And most of them are usually,most of the lenses are usually
made of plastic.
You know, at Grunewald H Q hereand certainly at earth bottles
(01:12):
HQ, we are no big fans ofplastic.
Where it doesn't need to beused.
So thank you so much to Otis forhelping us out.
And thanks so much to all of youwho have been sending positive
feedback.
It really does make a hugedifference to me.
I really do read all thecomments and I really do
(01:33):
appreciate it.
So, um, thank you so much.
In the same goes for peoplewho've sent in so many positive
comments about my book, surf byday, jam by night, which is
really covering the same thing.
Um, I really think my music, thepodcast and the book are all
about the same thing.
You know, how best to live yourlife.
You know, what ways every daycan you date your mindset to
(01:56):
lead to a more productive and,and happy life.
You can always tweak it and youcan always learn something new.
So thanks so much to everybodywho's becoming part of this
conversation.
Um, you know, benefiting from it, uh, listening to the staff
reading this stuff, but alsogiving the feedback.
It's just, it's such an amazingthing for me to be, um, a part
(02:18):
of.
And so thank you so much.
Wow.
It's a massive honor to havethis next guest, mr Tom Carroll
on this was a really candidconversation and I'm full of
laughs and you know, he reallyhas done it all.
Um, you know, from the whole protour thing to charging gigantic
(02:40):
mountainous waves with RossClark Jones amphetamine
addiction, you know, these daysbeing the hardcore meditator and
he's now doing some meditationretreats.
All the wire to I want to go.
There's one in June.
But um, yeah, this was just anamazing conversation.
I was very, uh, thankful to Tomfor, to, for making the time, um
(03:03):
, on manly beach.
He was surfing at a charityevent there and he made the time
for a chat and we also filmed itso you can check it out on
YouTube as well.
Um, so without further ado, mrTom Carol, welcome to soulful
conversations with Ash group
Speaker 2 (03:30):
[inaudible].
In this podcast we interview
Speaker 1 (03:33):
barring and amazing people, musicians, surfers and
experts in mindset, creativity,health, wellbeing and making
[inaudible]
Speaker 2 (03:54):
[inaudible] I want to go deep and have a soulful
conversation.
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (04:03):
this podcast is brought to you by earth bottles
at earth bottles.
We are on a mission to endsingle use plastics offering a
full range of beautiful doubleinsulated bottles, reusable
coffee cups, food and teacanisters, stainless steel
straws, bags, and lots ofplastic, great eco goodies.
Earth bottles proudly supportsthe breast cancer network of
(04:25):
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Hope for health, clean coastcollective, 15 trees, Bali baby
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So head over to ww.earthbottles.com today you for a 10%
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Together we can make a changeand break up with single use
(04:46):
plastic.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Wow.
In this very special edition ofsoulful conversations, I am here
at manly beach with the legendTom Carol Ash.
How are you going bro?
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm doing good.
Yeah.
Doing good.
I've been in the ocean.
That helps.
Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1 (05:13):
yeah.
So, so there's a lot of, there'sa surf comp going on here.
What's, what's the deal here?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
It's really cool.
This is a, I've been involvedwith SurfAid uh, international
to, uh, it delivers I to mostlyto start it off in the Mentawai
islands in Indonesia by dr DaveJenkins.
Back in the 90s.
And he saw our Navy, he wentsurfing there with a whole bunch
of buddies.
(05:40):
He went on the islands and had alook with local people and met a
few and so have that withliving.
And they saw that he had somebasic, uh, you know, health
issues.
So we're quite, we're shorteningtheir lives and, and also,
especially on infant, uh, inmortality, you know, um,
mortality rates were higher, Ishould say, and it was just
(06:03):
needed to do a couple of basicchanges and that was malaria and
, um, you know, reduce malariawith, uh, mosquito nets.
Um, change the way they cooktheir food, not, not cooking it
inside with a fire.
So they weren't getting gassedout by all, uh, all the smoke,
which was giving themrespiratory diseases and, um,
(06:26):
also getting more nutritionthrough, um, you know, like
planting vegetables, learninghow to actually, um, build
gardens and so on.
So that was just very, veryminimal, um, living.
And now that's all changed.
But, uh, he started off SurfAidinternational national going for
(06:47):
a long time now.
Can't remember what year they'rein now.
Both in 20th year maybe orsomething like that.
So I've been involved with himpretty much the whole way.
And we do an advantage each yearcalled the corporate cup.
It's where it's called the um,uh, the S surfing the corporate
(07:07):
surfing cup that SoFi corporateseven cup.
And they get to all thecorporates come down as chains
and surf a tag team event, sortof different than normal surfing
events, which are moreindividual.
You get a team together, yousurf as a chain and that team, I
turn up as one of the pros andthey bid for you at the beating
(07:29):
of the day to get you on theteam and they throw their money
down inside today they've raised, uh, to this moment, I dunno
what there's, there's an updateand the$182,000 just to die.
Oh my God.
And they ID 5% of that moneygoes to the people in Indonesia,
you know, to the programs runand directed by SF certified in
(07:53):
national, but actually run bythe nation.
So it's a real, it's a model waspicked up by the UN and used in
various, now it's used becauseit's more of a, some more of a
leg up, sort of a, it's notgiving to, it's not just handing
out, it's legging up, um, andhelping people up and, uh, and
(08:13):
to help himself.
So incredibly successful privateprogram and still carries out
today.
And surfers, we just go up to upto these beautiful parrot places
in paradise on boats and landcamps.
Take, take it for granted.
It's all there.
It's all, everyone's all healthyand everything's good.
But on the back side of it, theyjust need all this help.
(08:34):
And then, so as surfers, andthere's a lot of corporate, uh,
crew in your surface in thecorporate world and Sydney, um,
who join in Newcastle, few payfrom Newcastle, Wollongong
today, and they come in and getinvolved in the day and have a
wonderful day, um, out of theoffice.
Wow.
What an amazing thing.
And it's an amazing to feel
Speaker 1 (08:56):
like surfing has actually made improvements
because I guess we know aroundthe world there's the, there's
the old, um, haphazard way of,uh, like almost like surf
ghettos starting up around theplace.
I mean, you would've seen a lotof that happening everywhere.
(09:16):
Um, like people talk about Nassbeing a bit like that and stuff
like that.
It's really good.
Have you seen any other modelsof surfing going into new
places, but them trying torethink it and doing it in a
more ethical way that helps thelocals?
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Uh, it's in central America.
Yeah.
There's places that, uh, sort ofbuilt for, um, health and
wellness, surfing kind ofresorts that bring in the locals
and educate the locals in, incertain practices, get them in
employed within the structure ofthe, of the business and then
(09:54):
then in support families outsidethat, um, I know that happens
there.
Central America is a real goodsurfing spot.
You know, places like Panama,uh, Costa Rica, um, uh, um,
Nicaragua.
Yeah, yeah.
(10:15):
El Salvador, places like this, agood, you know, good surfing
spots that have this sort ofgoing on.
Um, some parts of Asia Pacificcome.
Um, so, you know, in smaller and, and, um, and all ends like
that.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So, um, ethics have been important to you, it seems
through the years, which isEpic.
Um, actually my heritage is, I'ma colored South African from
Cape town, but I haven't everbeen there there.
Um, but am I right in sayingthat you, um, boycotted a couple
(10:58):
of comps because of apartheid?
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Yes, I did.
Yeah.
I made a stand against apartheidin 1985 after I won my second
world title.
Uh, if I found it, um, a greatopportunity to, as a world
champion at that time was a realtime.
It was a time thing, like itwas, you know, every time I went
(11:21):
to South Africa and I saw whatwas going on there, the less I
could get behind that, uh, so inmyself, and it was a, um, and
being seen as an, as a worldchampion Australian world
champion supporting it.
Yeah.
Uh, the obligation to step upwas, um, profound.
(11:45):
So, uh, that also, you know,like along a lot of stuff comes
along with, you know, thefeeling of being up there in
front of every on there's aworld champion at that time
particularly.
And, uh, and actually I, thefact that I actually, you know,
I look back on, I did that at 24years old.
I, um, I got, wow, that's, youknow, today I still go.
(12:06):
You are like, that's fantastic.
You know, I really feel, uh,that it came from a real natural
place within me to, or wasn't totell someone they're wrong.
It wasn't to tell this, this wasjust simply, I just don't
support it.
I can't support a apartheid.
And if I can make someone justthink that maybe it's not a good
(12:28):
idea, just one person, uh, thenall dumb, dumb a job and kind of
how it sort of started to pop.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
That's absolutely amazing.
And that was a, um, a hugesacrifice at the time, I'm sure.
Um, would ha, did you win thatyear?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Uh, no.
I ended up coming second to TomCurran.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He actually, he actually didn'tdo South Africa too.
He followed suit.
So it was kinda cool.
We, we, we showed that we didn'tneed it to do it.
Uh, so, and um, Tom Karen was,he was a real tough one.
(13:10):
Um, uh, I actually had a, thereason I, I actually fell away
that year is because I, I am, Ihurt my ankle after the first
two events.
I won the first two events aftermaking my decision on South
Africa, uh, against apartheid.
And then, um, going into thenext year, I won the first two
(13:31):
events of the year.
I felt like I was on fire.
I felt someone point am I camehome on an injury medical, and I
tell you, when you engineerankle and surfing, it's like,
it's, it's the hinge to yourmagic carpet.
So, you know, if that hingeisn't just wild up and just go
out, and I got a lot of range inmy ankle and it just, just suck
(13:53):
the confidence out of me.
It took me six months to getback to form.
So it was a brutal, uh, Brilltiming.
But it also gave me times spaceto sort of see how it was, uh,
in regard to my decision inSouth Africa too and solidify it
was quite unstable.
(14:15):
Um, the response that I got fromit, there was some really
positive stuff and I wasn'tready for the other stuff.
So being 24, I was pretty naivein that area.
Um, yeah, definitely.
You know, today I would bring atotally different thing for me,
but, uh, thing young and youknow, world champion guy and you
(14:36):
know, like, um, and uh, thenatural normal, the natural
force where it came from wasalways there and always been
there.
But me on the outside, I'm like,Whoa.
You know, I often
Speaker 1 (14:51):
find that
Speaker 4 (14:52):
now I have found that over the years when I've taken
ethical stance on things and I'mtotally up for it and totally
mean it and I'm really proud ofthose things too.
Um, but I'm never ready for theflack because I, you know, you,
you don't even choose thosethings.
It's like you'll find yourselfin the situation.
Then you have, you make anethical choice and then when you
(15:13):
get the flack, it can be reallyhard.
Yeah.
It's a storm, like it's a stormof sorts.
So I'm now realize I can sort ofsit in a storm, uh, I can sit in
the middle of the storm and takethe kind of the sand blast a bit
today, whereas mm.
Back then I wasn't ready forthat.
So I kind of got brushed aroundby the storm a bit.
(15:36):
Um, and uh, before I sort of getmy feet back on the ground.
And I think that time that, thatankle injury was, uh, uh, kind
of, uh, kind of the universe,God.
Okay.
Well, and it's gonna slap youdown a little, just put you down
on the ground just for a bit,just to figure this out and make
sure you're right with this.
And so that's what helped me.
(15:56):
Uh, and that was the gift.
And the injury is always a giftin the injury.
You know, there's always a gift.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So I noticed that, um , I noticed in the way that
you're speaking there, uh,attendancy I guess, um, do you
use your, uh, way or beliefsystem or way of looking at life
sometimes to see, okay, whensomething negative hits you,
like why did this happen?
And sort of try and reverseengineer a positive out of it.
(16:25):
I like that reverse essentially
Speaker 4 (16:26):
his stuff.
Um, although usually I'm, yeah,if I'm in the pine, I don't see
it.
Um, a, if I'm in the, uh, theanger and the res, the reaction
to it, like I don't see it andit's usually takes a bit of time
to settle that down, maybesometimes longer than others.
But, um, you know, life is, is,isn't, you know, times it
(16:51):
doesn't seem fair.
Like, and you're going to gethit.
Um, we're all gonna get hit atsome point.
And so I think at some level,um, you know, having good
support, having good crew thatyou're connected to, and now
that's when the connectionsreally help.
Um, good, good, connected withreally good people.
(17:11):
Um, with love, you know, thatsort of, that really old,
powerful, uh, force kind of cankind of help us sort of ground
out, ground down and, and um,and see it for what it really is
the situation.
And definitely turn it, make itturn, turning kind of you, you
don't really like, and quiteoften it's, he kinda make a
(17:34):
choice I guess, but it's a moreof a turning of, of the, yeah,
you kind of turn it.
Oh, okay.
Well, Hmm, let's get aperspective on this that, that
may be a little different thanyou, you kinda kind of victim
state or, you know, like what amI saying, the reality of the
situation.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Cause I find that like, um, it's good to sort of
try and flip situations in a, inlike you get a shit situation
happen, but I often try and flipit so that my way of looking at
that
Speaker 5 (18:07):
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (18:07):
serves me in my life and then somebody will come and
tell you, Oh, you're justdiluting yourself.
You know, you're just trying tobe positive thinking.
And that's always somebody who'sdepressed as fuck.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They want to genuinely wouldlike to see and not in a good
spice.
So yeah, kind of skip, just bewary of those pipelines I make.
Um, yeah, and I think it's, uh,but that's, that's kind of
strengthening up the boundariesfor yourself so you can see that
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I heard it being said , um, and I was just quoting it
at my, um, book thing that I didyesterday, but it was like you
are the summary of the fivepeople that you hang out with
the most.
So you gotta really have a lookaround because you adopt those
patterns, whether it is lookingat things positively or
negative,
Speaker 4 (18:58):
that makes sense or that makes a lot of sense.
I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So I've got one of those key things I remember from
reading your book years ago wasI would, I'd be right in saying
this, that you, cause I didn'tlook this up on Wikipedia
yesterday or anything, but didyou, you would have won a third
world title if it wasn't for onepedal stroke.
Is that right?
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Pretty much.
Um, it was, um, it was atechnicality and for what they
call an interference call, um,against me in hotline nine 98.
Uh, and, uh, I was pretty, Iwouldn't say I had a handle on
my nervous system at that point.
(19:42):
I was pretty sort of highlystrong.
Um, I was looking at everyopportunity, uh, on the, in the
[inaudible] on that, in that, atthat moment and maybe too much.
I didn't have a look.
I didn't have a step back andthe boys didn't, I didn't have a
(20:04):
, uh, ability to step back.
Um, I was just too hard onmyself at that point.
But, um, I would always just, Iwas, I was two heats away
actually from a world title, soI need to just get through that
hate.
And another one, uh,
Speaker 1 (20:20):
well you're winning in that heat.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
I was, I was ahead and this guy was just jarring to
hell for leather and was a man,Oh man.
Um, hate.
And um, it was, there was thefirst male man, uh, contest at
pipeline, um, ever.
So it was very odd just to beout there with one other person.
But he was a vicious competitor.
He just wanted, he was actuallyon a death wish.
(20:43):
He was just gonna go foranything anyway, but he just, he
, he saw the to any, any momentto sort of get me on an
interference.
And I wasn't clued into that.
I was just looking for what Iwanted and I didn't actually see
how he was responding to thesituation.
So yeah, Todd Hahn, um, as iswho was there with me, a
(21:05):
competing, I just mean he sawthe opportunity, uh, on this
technicality.
It was a ruling that theybrought in.
So the judges didn't have to,well, I could just call it
interference if even if youpaddling, if you didn't have
priority, you have a surfer heldpriority and you paddled for a
(21:26):
line of swell from one end ofthe beach, the other, uh, that
could call you an interferencecall.
An interference on yet.
So it was a technicality.
So I didn't, my hands, all Ihave to do is just look at the
wave.
And that was, it didn't have toleave.
The rail didn't have to takeoff.
So he, he actually pedaled in, Ihad a look at this wave.
(21:49):
It was like a crazy one, but Ithought, I don't want to miss
something that's good.
And he actually saw me go for itbehind me and outside me and he
just took it no matter what,just took off on golf match.
Yeah.
So yeah.
And so he went, um, and then Igot called interference.
I still want him one judge'sshape, uh, with two ways,
(22:13):
against three ways.
So at the end of the heat, so,uh, I was, I was so far ahead of
him with the tone.
I didn't need to do that.
I could have just kicked backand relaxed and just allowed him
to be that gung-ho, crazy guythat he was at that time.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
And did you replay that over and over and all those
details a lot in subsequentdays, months, years.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
In a way.
I kind of buried it, you know, Iwent, I went for that bearing
act.
It doesn't really work, but Ithought I let it out.
You know, like I kind of came infrom that.
I was so angry.
I came in, I made a super angry,so frustrated my team, super
frustrating me.
I was like really bombed.
(23:02):
I mean that gun in Miranda carshare the steering wheel for as
far along as, I couldn't tell itback a little bloody.
I was like, really?
I was really angry, reallyangry.
Alan don't do anger very well.
Not like a, a really angryperson, you know, like, and I
never have had that in my life.
I never had that example from afather.
(23:22):
I never had that.
He's only angry when we need it,you know, like it always saw
that.
But, um, but that was a kind ofanger that calm I'd never seen
in myself and uh, and that waspretty scary.
So I just shoved it down yeah.
For a while.
And I didn't really see myselffor what I really was for war.
(23:42):
Right.
Um, and I, it took me a while,but in that process I actually
buried any kind of, uh, idea ofgetting back home, a tour and
gun for another world title.
I just buried it.
I said, no, I'm not going to putthat kind of energy into a
system that literally only thatnight, six hours later when they
(24:05):
had the annual general meeting,there is P abolish that rule.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
And today you wouldn't sayanything like that because it
just doesn't go with the yeah.
And, um, it's, um, it was justdraconian.
Uh, but it was what it was.
And I, and, um, that pipelinehas been such an amazing place
(24:29):
for me.
It's been that, and it's beenlike, it's been every kind of
end of the spectrum for me thatbreak and it's shown me and
taught me all these incrediblelessons and taken me to places I
just couldn't do on my own.
So, uh, I recognize that breakas being a kind of place.
(24:50):
You're like, my ashes will bespread, you know, that sort of
place.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Definitely.
And it's his stuff.
It's the stuff of legend, your,uh, your, um, vibe at pipe and
your understanding of pipe andhow you serve it.
And it must have been amazing todo that master's thing and have
that sort and feel vindicatedwhen you surf that in the way
that you did.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Oh yeah.
That was really cool.
That was again, that was, thatwas really about, um,[inaudible]
me, um, kinda get givingeverything in a golf from that
to charity and, and just goingand having a surf and all of a
sudden things just sort offriend, um, kind of allowed me
(25:37):
to kind of get the exact wisethat I needed to express myself.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Were you, um, were you back on, um, a replica boat
or older equipment that you usedto ride in that era that you
were winning pipe all the time?
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Yeah, so when they um, asked me if I'd like to do
that heat, I thought, Oh, bereally cool to get that Oh,
board, um, get, get all the dimsoff it and try to make the file
again.
Um, I did that with Pat Rossenwho was my shaper back in 80s
and the nineties.
There still is.
And Pat and I actually saw himthis and helped me work on the
(26:16):
fall as well and uh, and getspecific dimensions.
Right.
And by basically re rebuilt thatboard and I might a little bit
thicker because back then it wasrolled him so thin and narrow.
It was just, it just didn't moldinto how it was today.
So I just sort of just pumped itup a little bit, made it a
little bit easier for myself outthere.
And the board just wentbeautifully.
(26:38):
Yeah.
I hadn't written the boardbefore the heat, so I was like
going wow.
And it just, it did everything Icould love to do.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
And um, and the way you rode on like, like that's
longer equipment that would beused for the foot pipe now.
Um, or is it because you can,you can fill me in on that.
Is it a different line that youtook?
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Yeah.
So that those boards areprobably about, well, mine's
seven eight, that board that Iwas writing today, they'd be
running six, six, six, six tensmaybe on that sort of, you know,
like secondary pipe, maybeseven.
Oh, these guys are on real shortboards dropping out from the NIC
.
The way they're turning in it,like they're just playing with
(27:24):
pot now.
Like it's, I could still do wife.
Oh cha always wanted to do so,but I was so came from this
school of you've got to have alonger board, you've got to have
this big long gun, you know,they're quite beautiful boards,
slick like spews, you know, anduh, but to ride them, demand a
(27:45):
different line, be taken on thewave.
But I used to definitely try totake them as light as I could
get out underneath it.
Um, which those guys are doingregularly today.
Like it's nothing for these guystoday.
So they are really taking it tothe next level and um, uh, and
writing short equipment.
And it's, it's tricky to surfshort equipment out there.
(28:05):
Um, I could paddle into it.
I'm a bit further out.
I had a lot more confidence inmy equipment, um, on anything I
could be confident riding a six,six or 16 out there at that
size, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
But with that length, you were still able to do the
snap?
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, I could because I used to train on the
longer boards.
I used to go at an eight footboard, was the big brother to
that board and just surf thatfor like two weeks in all kinds
of conditions.
So I knew that I'd be ready formy seven fours and seven eights
and seven hours.
If I was riding and training onsomething bigger, longer,
(28:42):
Lynelle could come back andlisten up.
So that's how I, that's how Iused to play it.
Yeah.
Wow.
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Um, and yeah, so people check out the snap all
the surface will know what we'retalking about.
Then when did you do that?
Was that crazy vertical turn youdid in the barrel and that was
in a final, wasn't it?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Um, actually it was a preliminary around the day
before.
Yeah.
Um, uh, and that was, um, in1991 to, yeah, the seminar.
Any wine and it's, uh, the pipemasters, uh, the seminar only
one, you should be sponsored bythis Japanese.
Um, uh, I think it was a, adepartment store chain called
(29:23):
Marie and they used to give outthese amazing samurai helmets
when you won that event.
And, and that was so cool.
I got a, I got a hanging out athome.
It's so cool.
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (29:38):
that's cool.
So I mean, I can imagine, um, itwas like potty town in, that was
the, I mean to me, I see it isthat era was the height of Coke
and all that that kind of carryon.
Um, so you sort of documented alot about that era.
Like how was it in those days?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Well, it's kinda like it was potty town or it like, it
was, you know, we didn't havesocial media, we didn't have any
of that stuff, sort of wheels.
It was pretty free flowing.
Um, whatever was going on and itwas, it was hardcore to those.
There was some things going onthat we didn't really need to be
involved in, you know, um, asathletes particularly.
(30:20):
But it was just, their stuff wasflying and it was fun until it
wasn't fun.
You know, it's, that stuff is,you know, it's cool but fun for
a bit.
And then, uh, and the reality ofit, it's quite different.
But, um, uh, and can get a gripon us.
(30:40):
It's like, uh, cause I like theadrenaline.
I'm an adrenaline junkie, soanything that matches the
adrenaline, um, was like, I justlock onto it.
And I love that stuff.
Particularly anything, it kindof boosted my ego.
Like, you know, I cut kinds ofdefinitely the ego drug.
Like, you know, it's like youcan almost not have to do
(31:02):
anything.
And do you think in your reallygood, well you can't.
Yeah.
It's like, yeah, I am killing itlike differently.
Everything I'm saying right nowis the best thing that's ever
been said.
So, uh, it can happen that way.
So for all of us, and at thattime it was, it was free.
(31:24):
Flying goes a lot, a lot ofaction going on.
Uh, you know, like I said, itwas someone, it was a lot of fun
and I wouldn't change any ofthat stuff for anything.
It was, it was a huge adventure.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
So you got to the stage like after a while and
probably after pro days andwhatever, and then getting into,
did you get into ice for awhilethere?
And that got really heavy.
Uh, how did you cause people getthe way I see it.
I mean, I hate ice, like thatepidemic has swept and
(31:59):
especially the youth.
Um, but it must be just so hardto get off.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
Well, it's super, it's so sad that it's a, it's
like this for us humans, a humanexperience is such that, uh, you
know, if we feel like we'retrapped in some sort of way, if
we feel like we haven't, ifwe're really, really challenged
in life and we're Delta HOD blowand then someone sort of
(32:26):
validates that with somethingthat I'm gonna blow up, bikes is
feel better about ourselves.
Yeah.
Substance of anything.
What?
It could be alcohol, it could beanything.
That's somebody that matchesthat part of us that kind of
wants more.
Um, which we all have.
There's no, no one skips thatone except part of the human
experience.
Right.
So, you know, sugar take sugarfor once.
(32:49):
Troy, that's a tricky one.
But the, um, uh, that all eyes,the crystal methamphetamines, I
like love it.
It's such a good drug.
Like it's, you know, it's, it'slike I recommend, yeah.
It's like, Oh, I thought thatit's that good.
I can't, it's, it's, it's not,not a good, not good for me to
(33:11):
match that up.
And it's not good for PR, notgood for us to trade hours, you
know, a system in such, um, itcan make us do some of the
weirdest shit ever.
You never think of this stuff,you know, like really, uh, where
it's going to take you.
If you continue using it.
It's like, uh, it's gonna it'sactually our, uh, the, uh,
(33:31):
addict and saw it as, it's notthe drug, it's the, it's the
entity, the humanist inside us.
It gets skewed and towards justdestruction.
And so we will destroyrelationships.
We will destroy oursurroundings, we'll take, regain
our health, will just giveeverything completely and
(33:51):
utterly over to the drug andabandon everything that's good
to us or for us and around usthat loves us and ignore it for
the drug and or whatever itmight be.
It could be something else.
But, um, and when we kick outaddict off in[inaudible] with
such a thing, um, entity such asa drug or, or an I behavior or a
(34:17):
or an active, anything, um, man,where, where opening account
wounds our self and others andthere's a ripple effect.
It's so damaging.
It just, but the reverse canhappen if, if you turn around
and ask for help because what itdoes is the addict goes off on
its own and, and on its ownmission of disrupted
(34:38):
self-destruction.
And it's always a downward Hill.
[inaudible] might have a littleillusions.
It, it's always an illusion.
You, you might be going up Hill,you're going down, he gives kind
of guy down.
It's going to get ugly if youcontinue.
So the coolest thing is as soonas you just open a, you know, if
(35:00):
you're in a really bad, bad spotand you just reach out and it
makes no sense at all for Hill,he just, that's another turning
on.
I'm talking about, it's kindaturn, we turn and ask for help,
let's move in a differentdirection.
So all of a sudden all this helpcomes like, it's just crazy.
It's so cool.
(35:20):
Like just make that move and uh,and, and there's so much help
for us.
I like, I was flabbergasted.
And how much actually supportthere is once we tap into that
power, um, that's the only powerthat could actually, I could get
(35:41):
before I could get the power,you know, start building that
strength up in inside me becauseI can't do it on mine.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Right.
So that was the turning point.
It was asking for help and thenthat,
Speaker 4 (35:52):
yeah, and usually you gotta for us willful competitive
, uh, you know, motherfuckerswho just, you know, like, I'm
going to do this.
No worry.
I've got it.
I've got it.
You know, that willfulness, it'sso powerful that it just takes
us down.
And, um, and until that getsbroken and snapped and cracked
(36:15):
the crack foams, you know, uh,Glenn Cohen talks about that a
crack, you know, that forms andit lets the light in, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a beautiful song and, andstill come back.
Everyone has the crack, youknow, the cracks that you gotta
let the light in, into thecrack, you know, and the cracks
are forming any imperfections.
(36:37):
And so, uh, and then we, thenthe help, you know, then you
start getting this, thisincredible support.
Um, but we definitely have to bein a fetal position.
I needed to be in a fetalposition crying mommy sucking my
thumb or whatever it was in anude, I don't know.
Oh, it's like things, thingsweren't too good.
(36:58):
Like I love him, but now,thankfully,
Speaker 1 (36:59):
yeah, I mean, that's lucky.
It's just such a shame that wealways have to hit bloody rock
bottom before you that crackfoams.
Speaking of the fetal position,I love, I love asking these
question.
Um, so you, um, aftercompetitive surfing, then you
(37:19):
thought, okay, now I have tostart chasing gigantic waves and
do massive toe ins to 50 footdeaths labs.
Um, so can you just share for uspunters a scary kind of
situation where you thought orif not, if it never happened.
Wow, this is pretty heavy.
(37:40):
I think maybe mommy,
Speaker 4 (37:42):
I don't know.
Mom.
Me not me.
Well, I did a series of showsand a movie with Proskauer Jones
, um, called storm surfers.
And I think some of the momentsI had with Ross, uh, during that
show were kinda pretty old time.
Like it's, it's, it's all time,you know, certainly with Ross
(38:06):
kind of thing.
Um, yeah.
God bless him.
He's such a good guy.
Like we has such a good, youknow, we've had such good times
together.
He, he, um, but we kinda gotthat sign kind of energy when it
clicks on and we kind of getunderstanding without words, you
know, you get that sort offeeling with someone.
You probably haven't any music,you know, you're on stage and
(38:27):
you've got musician gun, youkinda don't need to do anything.
You kinda, it'll kind of, itmoves along.
And he of get frustrated fromTom Tom if that's not working
right.
And it's kind of just my shit,whatever.
But yeah, but a Merz is energychemistry had kind of pumps it
all along and pumps up.
Well that's what happened withRoss and iron.
(38:48):
But it used to get us in as muchas crazy situations.
Like we were way out of WesternAustralian coastline.
Like, Whoa.
Like, like thankfully I had alot of stuff around us, but
we'll, why aren't there, um, 70in order Kamala's off the
Western certain coastline inthis one brief we'd never been
(39:11):
out to, where were these mad cryfishermen?
One was, his name was Skiles andSkiles Skiles vape.
We, we, we started a 2:00 AMstar Geraldton, uh, hit it out
from there.
West towards is a riff on thisbig swell and ugly wind.
And, and he was already smokingjoints.
(39:32):
Yeah.
Drinking cans, you know,[inaudible] cycles on, you know,
and we added these heavy suitand we got out there and we were
shooting a three D and we'reshooting heli, we're shooting
all kinds of different stuff.
We've got two big boats, but noone, nothing kind of prepares
you like, um, for when, whathappens when, when you get hit,
(39:55):
like sometimes when you come offon a big wave, you don't, this
is why we try and empty lunghold downs is that you lose all
the air when you hit the water.
And this is what happened forme.
I lost my air as I was halfwaydown the face, hit the water
last Summa air and I couldn'tget a breath.
(40:15):
I got lifted up by the wife andthen thrown out by the wives,
said sort of skip thiswhitelists kind of spin with no
hair and then shoved down downand then rolled on, rolled on
for, I don't know how long itwas, but it was scary.
(40:35):
I didn't think my, I actuallytook a breath before I got up in
the whitewater because Icouldn't take it any longer.
But I've been down for way toolong and uh, I had this, we got
these really cool, um,inflatable vest now gives you a
bit of confidence, uh, to kindof be able to come up.
(40:57):
But we actually had Mike shiftfunds, we've kind of made
ourselves or we got someone tokind of stitch together and it
blew out on the walkout so Icouldn't find the rip cord.
So I had a gun.
I've spent too much time tryingto find this cord and I only had
seconds so, and I spent too muchtime using my nerve on that
(41:24):
cause it's kind of, yeah.
Or thinking to yourself.
Ah, it'll fight.
That'll get, that'll get, I'llbe able to get up cause it felt
date cause I opened my eyes,open my eyes in it and it was
dark, you know, and it's darkand an atheist and you know, you
deep so you kind of open up, Ohit's dark.
I'm like can't see light rightnow.
(41:46):
So I was underneath a lot, a lotof white water getting roll and
blacked out.
And so I'm like okay, which wayis up down?
And I'm getting rolled androlled, getting rolled.
And I couldn't tell.
I just had to let go and try tofind this thing.
I had enough nerve to do that,but I kind of ran out on that,
(42:10):
you know?
So, and then I had to kind ofmake my way, no matter what to
some sort of light, which Icould just start to see.
And then you start seeing thethreads of light through the
whitewater and then you kind ofstart going towards them.
And I started going towards themand I was felt like I had drag
on me.
Now this thing, you know, I likegetting up, trying to get up and
(42:33):
I felt like forever and I'llkinda, I might not make it and,
uh, but I'll have to keep going.
I've got to keep pushing andI've got to near what felt like
near the surface and it took alittle breath, the white water,
and then I popped up, likeliterally like did that, and
(42:54):
then I came to the surface.
So I was already moving upwardstowards the surface with a
buoyancy of more wet suit andthe vest.
Um, so I've got the surface andI was just coughing and carrying
on and thankfully it was knowotherwise.
And Ross was able to pluck meout.
That was sort of the mostrecent, really tough one.
(43:18):
And did you think you were donefor yeah.
Just got that feeling.
Well maybe I'm going to go here.
I don't know.
Yeah, I have that can get youthere.
I had a bunch of people aroundthat would've pulled me.
Yeah.
But then you only got fewmoments to do with, you know,
with resuscitation and stuff.
So resuscitation is superimportant at that point and uh,
(43:40):
making sure, yeah.
Getting to safety and getting,um, the air back in there.
Yeah.
Getting any sort of circulationto might be compromised, but
yeah, that was, I was felt luckythat I came up that time.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
And obviously you've gone in heavy on the breath
stuff.
Like you can hold your breathfor a very long time.
Uh, I, it's not hope, but it'snot breath holding that you do
though with breast training.
Is it?
It's, it's uh, preparing for anon breath hold kind of thing.
It's
Speaker 4 (44:11):
getting CIT tolerant.
So it's, um, so that's what wework towards.
So the body works under stress,um, better.
And actually the nervous systemgets toned by that work.
Similar to when we didmeditation, but this is a
different style.
It's actually working with thebreath.
Um, we're tapping or this crazychemical makeup in our body
(44:33):
that's already sitting there.
It's pretty, pretty phenomenalactually what we can tap into
just with our breath.
Yeah.
So once we kind of started workwith the breath in that way
[inaudible] uh, it gives us, itgives us a, a confidence
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (44:51):
have you got wacky with the breath?
If you've got shower manic withthe breath?
Speaker 4 (44:55):
A couple of moments where I definitely felt like I
was getting lifted out of mybody.
Um, and looking back.
Oh, and that was after, that wasafter heavy breath work.
Like really heavy breath work,like the Wim Hoff stuff.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
People on this podcast.
Uh, no stranger.
I froth on the half every time.
I love doing Wim Hof breathingand I love, I like, I like
trippy stuff too, so I like, um,uh, I really, I feel like your
buddy gives you a little reward.
Like last night I did, um, awhole lot of Wim Hof stuff in
(45:34):
the hotel room and some pushupsand then some more half and um,
put on different YouTube clipson my phone and just listen to
them and, and do, and I startedto get some really good purple
lights going.
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
The natural stuff come in.
It's you, it's you.
It's Ash.
It's Ash sort of popping[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (45:54):
I honestly high on your own supply.
Yeah, man.
You're doing great man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's great.
So you got some, um, retreatsgoing on.
You're going to be doing one inJune, which I would love to get
to if I can.
What's going on with that thing?
Speaker 4 (46:11):
Uh, so, um, I'm getting together with, um,
[inaudible] fillers, uh, andI've got my partner, Mary has
helped me and she's the backboneof stuff, you know, she's
awesome.
And, um, and all the currentsurf we've got.
Um, uh, Philly, she's abeautiful, a yoga teacher.
(46:31):
I mean, just an amazing, uh,human, she really delivers a
beautiful, beautiful class.
It's a, an extraordinary why she, um, delivers her her classes
and actually explains, eh, with,with beautiful, uh, uh, dividing
knowledge.
It's the Vidas, you know, shepulls out of the Vedas and, and
(46:55):
works with all this beautifulknowledge and delivers the cost
in such a, a seamless fashion,uh, instead of Texas all on a
journey in, during the classwithin ourself, which is, uh,
like I've never felt with a yogateacher before.
So I'm really happy to havePhilly on board.
We've got, um, uh, my, mydaughter Jenna Carol, she's,
(47:18):
she's, um, really finely tuningher, um, uh, her own healing,
um, strengths around healingstrengths through natruopathy.
So, uh, yeah, and her bringingher insights along.
So helping with nutrition and,and um, and natruopathy also,
(47:41):
I'll be taking everyone throughthe Vedic tape, uh, meditation
technique.
So, um, and if, if you want, Ican give you your mantra there
and, uh, and take you, you know,in get, you mean on a good
routine on the practice twice aday throughout the six days.
(48:04):
So, yeah.
And that's, that's the, that'sthe aim to actually get people
in on the practice meditation.
I think meditation is a realneed of the time.
It's, um, it seems to bebecoming a lot more bold, more
popular.
But it's something that, for mepersonally, I know it's really
(48:24):
helped me a lot in the last 13years of practice.
It's, it's given me, it'sparticularly this kind of
practice twice a day, 20minutes, twice a day, and using
the mantra, a mantra is, man ishis mind trial, car, mind, car.
So we're hopping inside thevehicle that takes us to tourism
(48:47):
, transcend the mind and theminds.
Yeah.
Full of thoughts.
Right.
And you know, and everythingstarts with a thought, you know,
look at these earth poles,right?
They start with a thought, onethought.
Yeah.
You know, and uh, and it's, it'sa beautiful thought that had to
(49:09):
start with one thought.
And then it starts multiplyingon itself.
So we, we've got an urgent,urgent, I think, um,
responsibility to that.
The, you know, to understandthat for the first thought that
(49:30):
comes to a head just to, thatmight get big, just a lap to
come and go.
But when we act on a thought,make sure that that thought is,
is going to be something that'sgoing to serve you and others so
that we really, so this is whatthe meditation is about.
Look, no one's perfect.
We're not going for perfectionhere.
It's like chess making progresstowards making a preference to
(49:56):
keep a system, this incrediblebody, this, this thing that we
kind of hanging out with it'sass to hang out.
It's going to have the last sideby, it's going to have the last
sight, right?
Getting the, the, the mind, thebody and the nervous system
between just to sort of movetogether in a really nice, uh,
uniform movement so it's notfighting itself.
(50:20):
But that's the key, uh, with themeditation, you know, um, you
know, tapping into your, yournatural source too.
I think, um, that's within us.
And going in for in a referral.
So we're not really, you know,looking in with, um, going for
consciousness all the time.
(50:43):
Just go for consciousness.
So that's what we do with thepractice.
That's all it is really.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Well, that is so cool because, um, I don't know if you
know, but like in this podcast,that's what I've been, everybody
has been asked about meditationand what they do and also the
breath work and stuff.
And I didn't know you were, I'mso deep into that.
That's very, very cool.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:06):
We'll see things like this, pull people together.
Right.
Yeah.
That's no surprise to me thatwe're here today talking.
So that's so cool.
Uh, and by the way, thanks forcoming on board.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Awesome product.
We're trying to address theplus.
Oh yes.
Earth bottles.
Yo.
Yeah, it's really cool.
It's really cool.
What, um, you know, all thething, you know, that, um,
anything that there's so muchthat can be done these days, um,
to fix, to help fix the planetand redress the problems that,
(51:40):
um, have been created.
And, you know, to some extent asmassive corporations, we could
go on a side thing about that,but it's business that got us
into this.
But it's kinda like be coolbusiness.
They can get us out of this tosome extent.
Speaker 4 (51:53):
Yeah.
And I think changes, it has tohappen.
And uh, it's funny how theuniverse, uh, you know, I love
when it's explained to myuniverse, uni one verse song,
one song, the one song that'splaying, being played out and
vibrating between every singleliving thing on the planet right
(52:15):
now, like that water went in mymouth that wanted to join it.
It, um, it's, it's, it's goingto have strong feedback, you
know, um, it's already havingprofound feedback.
We don't quite sure about ityet.
Uh, we want, we have a lot ofpower to act, to create better
(52:38):
business.
Uh, we've got a lot of power.
We can actually take action to,um, steer it and it is a big,
big ship by give a, try to steerone of those thousand foot
tankers.
So like, where am I, where am Ilike a 50,000 Mol tanker?
We need to, you know, startturning this baby right now and
(52:59):
making, taking action.
Otherwise it's going to be like,it'll be a tap on the shoulder,
warmed on him.
Yeah.
It happens to us a little wisein our body.
He got something wrong.
Tone, you know, like you got tosaw a knee, Tom T T uh, Aw, he's
really hurt.
Not, not, you know, I couldn'tdo it.
Bang, bang.
There's gonna be a slap in thehead.
(53:20):
There's going to be a baseballbat over the head until you
like, you know, again, you're onthe ground.
Uh, and then the body's gone.
You have to do something aboutthis time.
So, and that's the way natureis.
We are nature and that's whatnature's going to do.
Taking action like this thatyou've done with earth bottles
and just small actions on adaily basis in Tai, you're
(53:42):
reducing our plastic usage, uh,uh, individual by actually
educating the next person aboutit.
Just say, look, this is whatwe're doing.
You know, this is what we cando.
Just try to, you know, try topick this one back.
It's a, it is a song suffocateor because I was just in a mommy
Island in Japan, which is justabove Okinawan.
(54:05):
It's got Taiwan, it's got China,it's got Korea, it's got Japan
all around it.
It's got in an Asia, Oh, heavyplastic uses.
I'm unloading the rivers and uh,the systems, uh, trying to deal
with all this plastic all outthere.
And the Pacific ocean justrevolving around the
(54:25):
microplastics on the beach thatI saw were just really sad.
Um, it's very sad and it'sreally disheartening.
But, um, humans, we're prettygood at coming up with good
stuff I think.
And uh, and, and well, I hope wecan start to work towards, cause
(54:47):
we got a big one coming to it.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
That's all I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we just can't yet, thehopelessness and the paralysis
is no good.
You know, we just need to getinto it, enjoy, you know, have a
good, have a good time while wedo it and like enjoy being part
of the solution and making asolution.
Speaker 4 (55:07):
Perfect.
That's, yeah.
Let's be part of the solution.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
So in closing, um, is there any advice?
I mean, I think a lot of mystuff, um, including my book was
about this too.
I said at the start of it thatit was, I was hoping for anybody
stuck in a rut that it wouldserve as the philosophical
spatula to get you unstuck.
Um, and then somebody suggestedat gigs, I have a merchant item
(55:34):
that, a philosophical spatulasthat, um, yeah.
Do you have any of those justyeah.
That you, that you think, youknow, people could use or you
know, to make a change or any,anything you would suggest that
something you've found in yourlife that just is a key to
(55:54):
happiness or joy or, or
Speaker 4 (55:56):
anything like that?
Um, I think just being kind toyourself.
Uh, first I think, um, look atthe areas where you're not, so
kind to yourself and just sortamake small changes where you
can, a big, if you can, butreally sort of, uh, towards
(56:17):
being kind to ourselves.
Uh, and towards itself, uh, westart to sort of put that out
there to others.
So it's just a start ofsomething a lot bigger, um, and
do that slowly but methodicallyif he can.
Um, don't beat up on yourself.
(56:39):
Um, be very kind to yourself.
And I think, um, the great bookto read, I think it's kind of,
uh, been a real strong one forme and I pick it up from time to
time and just read bits of itand it always repeats itself.
It doesn't, but I somehow alwaystake on something different.
Every time I read something evenit's the same thing.
(57:03):
Uh, and that's, um, echo tellspower of now.
I love that.
Yeah.
We, we, we, we, we got up, movedtowards, well, you don't have
to, it's nice to move towardthat stuff.
And uh, he's got a book calledpracticing the power now, which
is a wonderful little book thatyou consider carry around.
It's not as chunky.
(57:24):
Um, but that, that alsopracticing the power of now is
Cracker.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
My last album was called now and it featured a now
clock on the front and it wasjust like now, now, now, now.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Wow.
I love.
I love a cat.
He's the man, isn't it?
He has a way to plastic, youknow, like so slow.
You got, what's it going to say?
(57:50):
Eh?
Well, thank you so much,brother.
What a great podcast.
Thanks so much for that.
It's a pleasure.
My pleasure, Ash.
Really love it.
Cheers.
You too.
It's an honor.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
Every stupid day.
Speaker 6 (58:34):
[inaudible]
Speaker 2 (59:08):
[inaudible] [inaudible] stupid thing.
Speaker 6 (59:21):
[inaudible].
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