Chief Deputy Matthew Thomas on Courage, Cartels & the Border Crisis | Ep. 204 - Spartan Leadership with Josh Kosnick

Episode Transcript
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Matthew Thomas (00:00):
this is not an easy job to to do day in and day
out You do see some of society'sworst but you also see some of
the coolest stuff in the world Icannot believe that we get paid
to do this it was the best jobever man you got you got action
You're just dealing with allkinds of different people
typically us in the in thebusiness a normal person they

(00:23):
may see a handful and that wouldbe a lot a handful of traumatic
events throughout their life andus in this business we could see
anywhere from 200 to 900Traumatic incidents depending on
where you work and how you workLike we are the line between
just anarchy and chaos andnormal life for people And you

(00:47):
take a lot of pride in that

Josh Kosnick (00:48):
seeing the video of that thin blue line running
towards chaos running to go helpimmediately they're on a corner
they start hearing the comcommotion boom They all run into
action

They're all human beings that chose this job
And so what I can tell you isthey all at that moment fought
through any fear that they hadin their heart because it's not
an easy thing to run to whereyou may be killed The humility
piece is huge because I thinkthat's what connects you to
other human beings right whenthey understand that you're just

(01:23):
like for me I just I tell peopleI'm just a dude I've been
blessed with a great position aleadership position There was no
doubt that the dudes thatsurrounded me would go through
the door with me no matter whatWe could be catching gunfire we
could be taking grenadeswhatever They're gonna run
through that door with me And Iknow that and I trust that And I

(01:46):
never second guessed that And Iknow it's not because of my
leadership it's because of thatlove and that wanting to serve
each other and help each otherif we're humble leaders we have
those type of connectionsthroughout our ranks

Welcome back to Spartan Leadership.
We're a Leader to Leaderpodcast, and today will be no
different.
Today we're joined by someonewho embodies the true meaning of
leadership under Pressure ChiefDeputy Matthew Thomas of the,
how do you pronounce that?
Pinal.

Pin

Pinal.
See, I got it wrong on the firsttwo guesses.
Pinal County Sheriff's Office,with over three decades of
experience in law enforcement,Matt has dedicated his life to
protecting his community andleading his teams through some
of the most challengingscenarios imaginable.
So he started as a detentionofficer back in 93, and he is
risen to the ranks to becomesecond in command of an agency

(02:52):
that oversees over 600 employeesand a$50 million operating
budget.
He's commanded over 700 swapmissions, worked undercover in
narcotics and tackled carteldriven crime in one of the most,
one of the nation's most complexand dangerous re regions.
But Matt's not just aboutoperations, he's passionate
about leadership and that's whyhe is here today because this is
that leadership episode orleadership podcast.

(03:15):
So specifically building alegacy that inspires and equips
others to excel.
I love Matt and his bio already.
Welcome to the show, brother.

Thanks for having me.
Glad to join you.

so your career spans over three decades
starting as detention officerand rising to chief Deputy.
Take us back to the beginning,though.
What inspired you to step intolaw enforcement in the first
place?

man, I don't know.
I don't know if it wasinspiration or, or need it,
there was definitely inspirationto serve, so I wanted to serve
in some capacity whether that bemilitary or law enforcement.
But at the ripe old age of 19years old, a then girlfriend,
now wife of 31 years waspregnant.

(04:00):
And I had a life decision tomake at that point.
And so I knew that I had to getinto something quickly.
I knew I wanted to serve in somecapacity and so I started
applying to different agencies.
And I was actually looking atthe military as well, and Pinal
was the first one to throw outan offer.
And I've been there for comingup on 32 years now.

Man, that's, we make those decisions in life
when we have to, when we'reforced into something.
But you've chosen to stay withit for almost 32 years.
What's inspired you to keepgoing and some of the'cause I
teed you up like you've gonethrough and seen some of the
worst and probably some greatthings as well, but to stick at
it for almost 32 years,somethings must have kept you
there.
What's really been behind that?

It's gonna be a combination of things for sure.
Sure.
Because this is not an easy jobto, to do, day in and day out.
You do see some of society'sworst.
But you also see some of thecoolest stuff in the world.
And I think once I got into itagain I did have a heart to
serve.
I had that drive.
I had a cool upbringing with alot of exposure to my

(05:04):
grandparents who were both WorldWar II vets, and specifically my
grandpa.
And he was a small businessowner, had a lot of vet friends
that would come over to hisbusiness, and I got to watch the
interactions, the comradery.
So I think I was alwaysattracted to that.
And once you get into thisprofession, that it's very
similar to the military in thatsense, a lot of comradery.

(05:24):
The structure was good for mebecause I needed structure.
And so it was good to have thatchain of command and that very
rigid organizational structure.
Uh, And then to be honest, onceI, uh, I worked attention for a
little bit, and then I went outonto the street as a cop, as a
deputy sheriff.
And when I hit the streets, Iwas like, dude, I cannot believe

(05:45):
that we get paid to do this.
It was the best job ever, man.
You you got, you got action.
You, You're just dealing withall kinds of different people.
And I had a pretty roughupbringing.
I grew up in a rough area, andso being in those high crime
impoverished areas didn't botherme at all.
I didn't view, those people asany less.

(06:06):
I viewed them as equals, and Ithink that helped connect the
humanity part of it for me.
And so I.
I was just having a blast andI've been having a blast for
over 30 years and it's afantastic job and it sucks
sometimes, but I think the.
the Cool and the good faroutweigh the bad.
And you can see almost every daythat you make a difference in

(06:29):
your community, right?
You have a direct effect on thepeople that live in your
community.
So I think all that stuff keepsyou pushing forward.

Is it?
Is it hard?
To keep that level of humanitywhen you're seeing some of the
wor, or on those days that yousee the worst of the worst.

Oh, dude.
Yeah, it's it's never easy.
This has been 32 years of upsand downs and the downs are the
lowest of the low.
Typically us in the in thebusiness a normal person, they
may see, a handful and thatwould be a lot, a handful of
traumatic events throughouttheir life.

(07:06):
And us in this business, wecould see anywhere from 200 to
900.
Traumatic incidents, dependingon where you work and how you
work.
So the exposure to the bad canmake it tough.
But you, I think for me a bigpart of pushing through the bad
was understanding that there wasa lot more good and that I had a

(07:29):
purpose in the world and that weall do in uniform.
We have a specific purpose, andwithout us, this kind of all
falls apart.
And I think people forget howfragile our society is.
And when you get into this job,you see the fragility of between
chaos and just normal life.
And you have a trueunderstanding that thin blue

(07:50):
line is really a thing.
Like we are the line betweenjust anarchy and chaos and
normal life for people.
And take a lot of pride in that.
And so again, that helps, getyou through those hard times.
But the hard times suck, man.
They have a toll on you.
They have a toll on your family.

Yeah, Speaking of hard times and chaos, just,
yesterday morning, earlyyesterday morning as a moment
that we're recording this, theNew Orleans incident happened
and a driver of a pickup truckkills at least 10, injuring 30.
I saw a video on X or Twitter, Istill can't call it X man, it's
still Twitter.

(08:29):
Um, seen the video of that thinblue line running towards chaos,
running to go help immediately,they're on a corner, they start
hearing the com commotion, boom.
They all run into action.
And that's a large part of whatwe don't necessarily see.
Like you guys are runningstraight into the danger, uh.

(08:50):
with such bravery andselflessness, and yet the media
and TV is constantly.
stoking the race flames andstoking the immigration crisis
even further with essentiallybastardizing your career, so
let's, I touched on twodifferent topics there, but
let's talk about the New Orleansincident.
Like from your, your outside,you're in a different state, uh,

(09:14):
that world very much like whatwent on there that night.
What goes through an officer'smind in that moment of chaos?

Man it's really gonna depend.
'cause I can tell you, I saw thegroup of officers that you're
talking about, I've seen thatvideo play over and over.
So it looked like there wasprobably 10 or 15 officers that
all bolted at the same time andtook off towards the chaos.
And so in that group ofofficers, you're gonna have a
duff, different experience,different people, different
upbringing, differentbackgrounds.
They're all human beings thatchose this job.
And so what I can tell you isthey all at that moment fought

(09:47):
through any fear that they hadin their heart because it's not
an easy thing to run to where,you may be killed.
It's not.
As easy as the movies make it aseem.
And so there's always a littlebit of doubt in your heart, but
I think what ends up happeningis a switch gets flipped and
it's all part of your trainingand it's all part of your

(10:09):
experience as you come up andbecome a more experienced cop
and that switch flips and youknow it's time to go to work.
And realistically, you're notthinking about your family.
You're not thinking aboutyourself, you're not thinking
about any of that stuff that canbe distractions.
You're thinking about a problemand solving it.
And so that group of cops, theyheard and probably saw a problem

(10:33):
and so they flipped that switchand they all took off running to
try and go solve that problem.
And, you see it over and overagain, especially with all the
cameras out there nowadays withall the videos going on.
The heroics of cops across theworld, not just the country.
When.
When something like thathappens, that switch flips and

(10:54):
they just go to work and they dothe best they can, and sometimes
it, it's gonna cost your life,unfortunately.
But I think we all understandthat and we all know we didn't
necessarily sign up to getkilled.
But we signed up knowing that isa byproduct of the work that we
do because we work in a violentworld.
And yeah, just it's, again, it'sjust I can't say it's built into

(11:19):
you, but, uh, it's just part ofwho you are and what you believe
is that I am extreme in my lifeif I have to intervene.

Yeah.
Yeah, It's just traumatic andour hearts go out to all those
affected down there.
My old college roommate was downthere, fortunately, he is old
like me, and went to bed.
Early Enough that he wasn'tthere for the event that he
ended up flying home today andskipping the football game just
'cause of he was sick of seeingthe crime scene and how he was
almost affected.
So, That being said, theleadership that you've seen over

(11:51):
the years and been a part of andare now our key leader on the
team, talk about the structure alittle bit because I think this
crosses paths intoentrepreneurial space as well.
Law enforcement, military havesome of the most stringent
structure that I've seen, andyet a lot of business owners
have some of the weakeststructure to their

(12:11):
organizations, and I help coachthem through that a lot as part
of my, the work that I do tohelp them get more structure in
their lives in a chaotic world.
That is entrepreneurship.
That is entrepreneurship.
Talk about some of thestructure, the good leadership,
the bad leadership that you'veseen along with that in your
time in the last 32 years.

The structure is key, right?
Because, unlike a boardroom,when we have something pop up
there's lives involved, right?
It's not profits or gains orlosses.
It's lives at stake.
And so we have to be veryprecise and we have to be able
to execute upon command.
And so when you talk about ourstructure, we're a paramilitary

(12:51):
organization as law enforcement.
And what that means is we havethat rank structure.
So you know, you have yourdeputies and those are the line
level workers, and they are theones doing the majority of the
work.
And then you have your firstline supervisors for us would be
sergeants.
And then you start to get up andrank into the, what we call
executive staff, which would beyour lieutenants, captains, and

(13:11):
on up.
And that structure, that layeris all put there.
Specifically.
For those purposes so that eachlevel has their job, has their
duties, has their vision andmission and then each level
above them that broadens.
And so you're seeing a biggerpicture.
And like for me, in my positionI'm looking at the whole ship,

(13:31):
right?
And steering this whole ship.
And as you go down each level,they have specific missions
within that overall mission.
And how that works for us, andespecially the structure, how it
works for us is when we havethose critical incidents take
off, let's talk about theLouisiana incident again.
When that, when something likethat happens your command system

(13:52):
goes into place and you havebosses who start directing
resources to the appropriateplaces and start taking care of
problems and start filling ingaps and start preparing if
there's gonna be secondary ortertiary.
Issues.
Go on.
You're dealing with all that.
So it really works well for ourpurposes and then in, even in

(14:13):
the day-to-day business because,for me, handling the budget a
normal week you have operationshappening and needs happening.
And those needs flow up and flowdown.
And certain levels have certainauthorities and so they can call
the shots for certain things andput those orders out.
And it makes for a seamless kindof just a seamless flow.

(14:36):
And there's other stuff thatneed to go higher.
Now, I can tell you that thatcan slow things down sometimes.
And that I think is the benefitthat private sector has over
government work is our structuresometimes can slow operations
down because if you have to gothrough that chain to get your
approvals and it has to come allthe way back down that.

(14:56):
Things can get stuck.
And yeah.
the private sector they seem tobe more nimble because they can
move laterally.
They can go from the top to thebottom and as we can too.
But ours is a lot moreformalized I guess.

Speaker View (15:09):
Yeah.

again, helps in our world and works in our
world.
For us specifically, we have, werecognize where our weak spots
are in the slow slowness ofresponse in some things.
And so we'll cut that chaindown.
And so we may we have a specialunit that they go after, the
worst of the worst in our countyand sometimes in our state.

(15:31):
And they're a special littlesquad that we formed and they
answer straight to us.
We didn't put any chain inbetween them because we want
them to operate much like an SOFsquad in the military where they
have autonomy and they are veryclear on where their orders are
coming from and what theirorders are.
Because as you add layerssometimes that telephone game
can happen and orders can getfiltered on the way down, or

(15:54):
they can get information can getfiltered on the way up.
So we recognize that and try toflow through that and work
around it sometimes.
I think that answered part ofyour question.
Now asked me a second part aboutgood leaders, bad leaders

I'll ask that in our frame, but I wanna give some
context to the entrepreneursthat may be listening.
You may not have lives at stake,but you have livelihoods at
stake, Yeah.
So structure is very importantto your organization.
and Following standard operatingprocedures and making sure that
everyone's playing by the samerule book because livelihoods
and your business is at stakeeven though lives may not be at

(16:29):
stake.
So just wanna set that context.
But as you've seen, and you'veprobably, in your 32 years, seen
great leaders, poor leaders, aswe all do.
what in What's what in whatconstitutes a great leader for
you?

Oh man.
I would consider my sheriffsheriff Mark ly just, just left
office on the 31st.
That was his last night.
And he to me, constitutes agreat leader.
And I think one of his.
I.
Best traits as a leader ishumility.
And I think that by far carriesover for any leader no matter
the industry, private sector,whether it's government,

(17:07):
whatever.
The humility piece is hugebecause I think that's what
connects you to other humanbeings, right?
When they understand that you'rejust like, for me, I just, I
tell people, I'm just a dude.
I've been blessed with a greatposition, a leadership position.
But I consider this position notmy position.

(17:28):
I, I consider it their position,and my position is to serve
them, and I have to have thehumility to be able to do that.
And I have to have the humilityto also hear.
Where I suck and where I'mcausing them issues and I have
to be able to put myself intheir shoes and I have to also

(17:50):
be willing to share my view withthem.
I can't just the days of,because I told you so are really
over, right?
People information is at theirtips all the time, and so they
expect information.
So as a leader, I have to behumble enough to realize Hey man
I have to take the time toexplain a lot of things from my

(18:10):
perspective.
I have to be able to hear whereI'm sucking, where I'm causing
them problems, because that'sone of the big things we do as
leaders.
You get into these positionsand, just by human nature,
people around you start to nottell you the things you need to
hear.
And I think that's a dangerousthing because I.

(18:33):
You start hearing, you're great.
Everything's great.
You're doing great.
And I've had this where it'shappened to me, where I've
looked around and I'm like, no,everything's not great.
There's problems.
I want you guys to tell me likethe truth about these problems.
And when you have the humilityto do that and sit down with a
room of people and tell'emplease tell me, where I suck so
that I can shore that up becauseI wanna be the best leader I can

(18:53):
be for you.
And I also want to show themmuch like I show my kids, this
is the example I want you tofollow.
This is the type of leader Iwant you to be because this is
what works.
This is what people embrace.
This is what makes people'causepeople are driven.
I know there's a lot of peopledriven by extrinsic stuff, but
intrinsic motivation is thebiggest thing.
And if a person is intrinsicallymotivated to follow my

(19:17):
leadership, that means we have aconnection.
And you talk about ourprofession, when I was on the
SWAT team.
There was no doubt that thedudes that surrounded me would
go through the door with me nomatter what.
We could be catching gunfire, wecould be taking grenades,
whatever.
They're gonna run through thatdoor with me.

(19:38):
And I know that, and I trustthat.
And I never second guessed that.
And I know because it's notbecause of my leadership, it's
because of that love and thatwanting to serve each other and
help each other.
And I think, again, going backto humility, if we're humble
leaders, we have those type ofconnections throughout our
ranks.

Yeah, that's a, a, that's an awesome answer.
And humility is a key trait ofleadership.
Yeah.
And you ask anyone that's beenon the Special forces, how they
got through buds and it's alwaysabout the others around them.
Anyone that was there forthemselves rarely gets through
it.
Yep.

(20:18):
And that's that brotherhood andthe military and the law
enforcement.
And frankly, for those of usthat find that brotherhood,
whether it's a bible study,whether it's just some great
friends, you know how thoselight your life up and breathe
life into you when they haveyour back in your darkest
moments.
so What I really wanted to talkto you about today was this

(20:39):
border crisis.
And I know you're at the, someof the front lines of it,
Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, butobviously this was a hot button
issue during the election.
It's still being talked about.
Very much tell us how bad is it?
Because we hear all the mediatalking heads, we The
politicians.

(21:00):
What?
What are we like?
For those of us that are youknow, I'm on the opposite
border.
I'm in Wisconsin.
For those of us up here that areso far removed from it, what's
going on?

What has happened specifically over the
last four years, Is essentiallylawlessness at the southern
border, and it's starting toaffect the northern border too
because what people have tounderstand is I'm married to a
Mexican and her mom immigratedhere illegally and then, went

(21:32):
back, got her legal citizenshipand carried forward as a US
citizen.
And they come from Chihuahua,Mexico and down at Chihuahua,
Mexico, where they're from, thecartels rule, everything.
And that's true of the entirecountry now, the cartels rule
today.
And not to sensationalize it,but the cartels are a huge

(21:52):
criminal organization that arethe most powerful right now in
the world.
They have their tentaclesthroughout the world and they
happen to be at our southerndoorstep.
And they also, what you have tounderstand in this region is
there's familial bonds.
So back when the US bought thisterritory and all of a sudden it
became the us almost overnightthat was Mexico.
And then they just moved theline after the purchase and

(22:15):
said, this is now America.
You had families on both sidesof that line now, because some.
Got bought into America and somewere still in Mexico.
And so there's familial bondsacross there.
So the cartels have theirtentacles deep into this
southwest border and throughoutthe world, like I said.
But them being the power thatthey are, they control

(22:37):
everything.
And I was telling you about mywife's family because when they
immigrated here, and this wastrue back in the beginning of my
career, there were a lot ofpeople not a lot, but compared
to now.
But there were people that werecoming from those countries,
especially Mexico, coming overfor quote unquote, a better
life, right?
And that, that held true.

(22:58):
The people that were immigratingacross were coming here to work,
coming here to look for betterjobs.
They would send money home.
That was all very true.
That still happens to an extenttoday.
I.
The difference being today, thecartel controls all of that
movement.
So back then, those people couldjust walk through the desert,
get into the us and get to acity and they were good.

(23:20):
Now the cartel controlseverything moving across that
border.
That's how powerful they are.
So when people move across thatborder, those people have to pay
a fee.
And so the cartel controls thoseareas, those fees.
You pay your fee and then youget across.
And typically speaking, theyonly guarantee you into the us.
Once you get to the us, if youget picked up by the next crew,

(23:44):
then that crew will tell you.
That money was for them on thatside.
Now you're in the us you're inour territory.
So now you owe us more money.
I don't have any more money.
Okay, you're going to work forus to work that off and they can
become indentured slaves.
And for females, you know whatthat means?
That's going into the sex trademost of the time.
Um, For males, it could be thatthey're mules carrying dope.

(24:07):
It could be whatever, work thecartel wants them to do for'em.
So the days of people justsimply coming here for a better
life are no more because of thatbig criminal organization
controlling the border.
And with that comes all the bad.
So if you look at our area, likefrom our county's about 55 miles

(24:27):
off of the US Mexican border atthe closest point.
But why we are key terrain forthe Sinaloa cartel specifically
is that is all open desert and alot of it is Indian reservation
all the way into, To uh, Mexico.
And so they have free reign inthat area, and they exploit that
heavily.
And so all of that adds to theproblem.

(24:49):
And then if you look at the lastfour years, the policy
differences from the nationallevel, when they when they did
away, almost immediately withthe remain in Mexico for asylum
they, we had huge influxes ofpeople.
And with those big influxes ofpeople, what the Americans don't
realize, they, because you'lllook at this on the news and

(25:10):
you'll be like, oh, those poorpeople, they're in that huge
caravan and they just want toget here for a better life.
I.
That's true of some of them, butnot all of them.
Some of them are bad actors.
And then you add into that, thatthe cartel specifically pushes
them towards certain areas tooverwhelm the system.
and They're overwhelming thesystem as a faint.
So I'm gonna push people here,it's gonna cause border patrol

(25:33):
to react and they're all gonnahave to come here, use all their
resources.
And while that is going on, thefentanyl flow and the meth flow
is going around them on theedges uh, where it's
unprotected.
And so that's what's beenhappening and it's become more
and more prolific as we loosenedup the rules over the past four
years.
And prior to that, we had betterrules in place.

(25:55):
We had, we're never gonna stopit.
And another thing people don'tunderstand is these routes have
been these routes since theponcho Villa days.
And so there's a long history ofsmuggling routes here in the
Southwest.
So we're never gonna completelystop it.
But man, we can mitigate it andwe can do a lot better than
we're doing now.

Do.
Do you have any idea how manyhave crossed in the four years?
Are the numbers the media isreporting remotely?
True.

I'm gonna say are best guesses.
And so I, you hear, 10 million,12 million, those are all
conservative numbers.
Usually when we talk about it,I, we usually think that it's

(26:52):
around the 20 million rangesomewhere in that area that have
come through over the past, fouryears.
And when you look at thosenumbers comparatively to the
years prior to that, the decadesprior to that, this has been a
hu the largest human migrationinto our country ever.
And again.
You take a percentage of thosethat are bad actors.

(27:12):
And that's what really concernsus is they went unchecked and
again, they flooded our system,they overwhelmed our system, and
then sometimes our system justdidn't care.
And that was because of ordersfrom the top telling them to
look the other way.
And the immigration piece isvery problematic because they
have obviously overwhelmed.
Our society, right?

(27:33):
We weren't ready for thatinflux.
That's why we have legalimmigration is because our
government needs to control howmany we process through and how
many we allow into the countryso that we can, resource wise,
we can keep up with that, right?
Because some of'em are gonnaneed government resources.
Some of them, they're gonna needjobs.
Obviously our hospitals aretaxed.

(27:54):
Our schools are taxed.
So our infrastructure has tokeep up with the flow.
And when you have them come inthe way they've been coming in
over the past few years throughillegal entry, and we have no
way to control that, then itstarts taxing our entire system.

Yep.
Yeah, that's unreal.
And that's why I figured thenumbers that were being reported
were.
Very conservative, uh, becauseyou can't track what is the ones
that aren't even beingprocessed.
Like those ones that they'regetting around, um, the edges,
like you mentioned, whether it'sdrugs or people.
Um, so interesting.

(28:33):
So what would I guess howfrustrating is that for the
officers that are trying to dotheir job and they're getting
orders from the top to not dotheir job?

Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
If we talk about border patrolspecifically, they have been
through hell and back over thepast four years because they
literally signed up to do justwhat they're designed to do, and
they're being told no, and, godo this instead, which is
completely counterintuitive fora lot of them.
So the morale of the borderpatrol.

(29:02):
Has been horrible.
It increased quite a bit inNovember.
I'll let you do the math as towhy.
once we got through November,the border patrol was feeling a
lot better about the futurebecause, they all just like a
cop on the street.
They have a specific job thatthey're designed to do.
And you saw this happen and youstill see it happen in some

(29:23):
areas with cops where our job isto fight crime and put criminals
in jail.
And there's some of these citiesthat are telling'em, no, don't
do that.
Don't arrest people.
Don't put bad guys in jail,just.
Just drive around and lookpretty or whatever, because we
don't want any controversy.
And you're seeing what thatequals.
And so it's the same thing forthe border patrol.

(29:43):
They're down there and they'rewatching this mass influx and
they know the problems that itcauses and they just have to sit
back and watch.
But I think, again, I think thetide has turned a little bit.
I think morale is picking backup and they are ready to go to
work.
And so we're hoping that we getsome administrative changes that
allow them to do that.

You you didn't say 'em by name, but I'll say
California.
He was talking about you.
Um, so let, let's set aside thecartels,'cause I know that's a
bigger problem.
But if we were to just fix ourneighborhood, if we were to fix
our home country what needs tohappen besides the policy change
from the top?
Even just REI instituting whatTrump re instituted in his first

(30:26):
term.
What would he may, I can't usethe word eradicate, but stop it
and allow us to do some proper

Some of the first things we have to do is
hold some of these othercountries accountable, right?
And because there's countriesthat are allowing things to
happen that are furthering this.
And so as the US we have to lookat those countries and say, Hey.
like, You have to knock it off.
Because what a lot of peopledon't understand is like these
asylum seekers, right?

(30:54):
They say, oh, they're seekingasylum.
They're seeking asylum.
Not when they come from four andfive countries away, because
asylum is in the first countryyou get to.
So if you're running frompersecution and you're running
from Guatemala and you go intoMexico, that's your asylum.
You don't get to just keepleapfrogging through countries
until you get to the one youwanna stay at.

(31:15):
And so these countries that areallowing that we have to hold
them accountable, right?
And that's a big piece of it.
And then I know that this is ahot button topic, but we've been
asking for this one for probablyat least 20 years that I can
remember.
To declare the cartels narcoterrorists, because that's what
they are.
They are terroristorganizations.

(31:35):
They're just darcos that aredoing it.
If you declare them narcoterrorists, that opens up a
whole lot of things.
And the first thing people pointto is, oh, you just wanna use
the military on them.
And no, that's not.
Yes, that's great.
'cause we could use some of ourtop tier, like in case of
emergency break glass kind ofguys to go take care of some of
their real bad guys.

(31:56):
But the bigger picture is itstarts locking up assets and it
starts locking up assets ofcompanies that are dealing with
them and funneling money forthem and doing money laundering
and hiding assets and all thatkind of stuff.
Starts locking all that up.
So you start hitting these guysin their pocketbooks and you
start hitting quote unquotelegitimate companies that are

(32:17):
assisting these criminalorganizations and locking up
their assets.
That has a lasting effect and ithas a very quick effect because.
A millionaire businessman is notgoing to want to lose all of his
assets overnight because he'sdoing some stuff on the side
that he knows he shouldn't bedoing Mm-hmm.
with some of these criminalorganizations.

(32:38):
So that's a huge piece of it.
Uh, Being able to take that awayfrom them and lock up their
assets.
'cause that's one of their bigthings, right?
They can buy whatever they want.
They can buy their way throughcriminal cases.
They can buy the hardware thatthey need to fight these wars
that they're fighting down therewith each other and with the
Mexican military.
And all that stuff goes alongwith it.

(32:58):
So that's like high level.
And then as you drill down andyou get like into to the states
themselves, how we start dealingwith this, and I think this is
just for society as a whole, notjust the immigration problem or
the drug cartels or any of that.
We have to start beingaccountable as a society and

(33:21):
stop trying to make everything,everybody else's fault and stop
being a victim for every littlething.
Because that's the biggest thingI've seen that has degraded our
society now is the lack ofaccountability.
So people just go do whateverthey want and nobody's willing
to stand up and say, no, we'renot gonna take this anymore.

(33:42):
We're not gonna put up with yourbehavior like that and we're not
gonna allow you to do this to,to us, to our community.
And of course we're willing todo that.
We're willing to be that line,but when we do that, we need the
people right behind us saying,yeah.
And we back them.
So these people that areclaiming racism or, whatever ism

(34:03):
they're gonna add on to the endof anything, to try and make it
an emotional thing rather thanwhat it is when they stop all
that crap and they just say no.
You are acting like a criminal.
I don't know if you saw therecent video of the three young
ladies that went in and stolesome stuff and because they,
yeah, I

did see that.

they forgot that the rules changed, right?
And so that rule change and thecriminal justice system actually
standing up and saying, enoughis enough.
This is basically time for momand dad of the country to stand
up and say, no, the kids aren'trunning it anymore.
Parents are taking over again.
And if you do that, you're gonnaget smacked.

(34:42):
And if you continue to do that,you're gonna go to your room.
That's what we need.
We need more parenting in thiscountry.
More accountability.
And then, I hit on the cartelpiece and some of the some of
the stuff we could do there.

The video with those three ladies was hilarious
because they're in handcuffs inthe backseat of a car, and one's
what?
Why are we getting risk?
Oh, the law changed.
the, the one knew that the lawchanged prior to them going out
on the stealing spree, butdidn't say anything then until
they were caught.
So it was like, oh man.

Yeah.

That was also Because they're gonna cost it.
Yeah.
And they're gonna test it,that's what happens.
Like I can tell you from the copworld when we have a
neighborhood that's taken overby gangs and we have to go back
in and take that neighborhood toturn it back over to normal
citizens, you have to go hardbecause they are not gonna want
to give up that territory.
So we go in, we go hard, we justhit'em and hit'em, and arrest as

(35:37):
many as we can.
And then they start learninglike.
oh, Okay, this is the way it ishere.
And typically speaking, when wedo that pressure pushes them
out.
And then it allows us to workwith the citizens in that
community to take theircommunity back because a lot of
them are held hostage in thesekind of situations.

Yeah, they're just trying to stay alive.

Yep.

Yeah.
How much would the wall help.

Oh, it helped tremendously.
What what it does more thananything.
Again, we're not gonnacompletely stop it.
And I get the people that say ifyou build a wall, they're gonna
build, 10 foot wall.
They're gonna build a 12 footladder.
I get all of that.
But they have to work a lotharder with that wall in place
than they do without it inplace, because where the wall
is, they are working to getstuff across or under, if

(36:21):
they're digging tunnels like theCINA lows do but they're working
a lot harder and that's a loteasier to focus on when we don't
have just open desert thatthey're crossing.
Because there's areas down southof our county where it's a three
strand barbed wire fence, orit's just some Normandy style
barriers that are just sittingthere in the desert and people

(36:42):
can walk right through'em.
And so that doesn't do anything.
The wall as it is planned.
If you look at the Yuma sector,go way back when Arizona, the
Yuma sector of border patrolfirst put up their wall just in
that sector.
that sector's traffic of humanscoming across cut by 95%.
So that's how effective the wallcan be.

95%.
Man, those are numbers that themedia is definitely not gonna
report,

No.

but that's show, that's a case study and showing
how effective it can be.
So let's say we do the wall, weget the budgeting right?
We get we get all the thingsthat you mentioned done.
How do the cartels react?
What's their next move?

Oh, they're gonna, they're.
They're opportunists.
So they're gonna look for a wayaround whatever we put in front
of them, right?
So we put the wall up, they'regonna figure a way over it or
under it or around it somewhereelse if they use, the waterways.
So they're always gonna work tocounter us.
That's why it has to be morethan just it, it it can't just
be one thing or two things,right?

(37:53):
It has to be a holistic approachby our nation.
We have to work with those othernations and say, Hey, if we find
out that you guys are fosteringthese guys much like we do
overseas, right?
When we find out that a countryis harboring terrorists, we
don't treat them with kittedgloves.
We need the same type of stancewith our partners down south

(38:14):
that, hey, if you guys areharboring these cartels, and we
find that to be true, you'regonna pay the price, whether
it's sanctions or whatever.
We need that.
We need better technology at theborder.
Not better, but more technology.
We have some great technology,but we need that technology
piece, and we need the wallpiece.
And then we need the policies inplace.

(38:37):
So when the border patrol doestake action, there's some bite
behind it, right?
And there, if you get all thosethings in motion, we're gonna
start knocking down their blocksand taking some control back.
But again, they are a criminalorganization and as we've seen

(38:58):
all through time the criminalswill constantly try to figure a
way around it.
And so it's a constant ebb andflow.
But right now they're verypowerful and I think we need to
work to take some of that powerback.

Yeah, and I've had the privilege of interviewing
X-F-B-I-X-C-I-A, and they'veboth talked about Trenda Being
more than a gang, but a criminalorganization in and of
themselves.
So we know that case inColorado, in Denver, with the
apartments being taken over bythat criminal organization.

(39:32):
Let's say you, you like, so fromyour SWAT experience from your
believe 32 years in lawenforcement, when these policies
change and were able to actuallymake some headway with, like you
mentioned earlier, taking,given, getting back a
neighborhood to to the citizens,how hard is that gonna be to

(39:52):
root out some of those criminalorganizations?

it's gonna be real hard.
That's, we've been discussingthat internally as law
enforcement in general in the usespecially with the TR guys and
some of the,'cause they'reobviously pretty well trained in
their tactics and how theyoperate much like the high-end
cartel guys.
And, it is going to be a fightand it is going to be ugly.
And unfortunately what hashappened, because again, because

(40:21):
of us policies is the fight isnow at our doorstep.
If you talk to any of the warfighters, any of the dudes that
have been overseas over the past20, 25, 30 years they, when you
talk to them and you sit downand say, how do you feel about
what you do?
I feel great because we'rekeeping the fight over there,
right?
We're keeping it out of ourhomeland.
And those guys.

(40:44):
Have been warning people foryears.
I, I talk to a lot of top tierguys all the time and they tell
us like, we love doing our jobbecause it keeps it over there.
But man, it's coming and they'retrying to get here.
And unfortunately over the pastfour years they're here.
And I think you're starting tosee evidence of that, as we saw
in Louisiana.
Unfortunately, that's just thebeginning.

(41:05):
And I think those of us in lawenforcement understand that.
And so to take this back isgoing to be a fight.
And unfortunately, Americanshaven't been exposed to this
kind of stuff at home at verymuch at all.
And they haven't been exposed tohow violent that the real world
is.
And when you go up against acriminal organization that is

(41:26):
intent on violence it's notgonna be pretty, it's not gonna
look good.
Cops are gonna have to.
Do things that people are goingto say is brutality or whatever
the case, but it is calledsurvival and it is called
fighting criminal organizationsand it looks rough.
And I think we're gonna have arough few years in law

(41:49):
enforcement as far as what ourfight looks like to to get it
back a little bit.
But I think that, I really feellike the US is at a point, which
was evident in our lastelection, that they're fed up,
they are done, Mm-hmm.
right?
And so I think the people acrossthe US while they don't wanna

(42:10):
see it, they're ready for us todo it.
Let's take this back and let'sget back to what we used to be.
So we'll see, man.

We shall see because we know the media is
gonna attack and keep us dividedas much as possible.
I don't know if you can answerthis.
I got my own theories and Ithink I'm right, but I'd love to
hear your, uh, take on it.
So the last four years you'vetalked about it.
uh, Biden ended the policiesthat Trump instituted.
Let in, like you said, about 20million perhaps more.

(42:44):
And so all these facts that youjust laid out, those are facts.
Those are indisputable.
That being said the number wecould argue about, but Biden
ending the policy and all thatdifferent stuff, that you've
mentioned, those are facts Why,why.
Why would Biden or thatadministration, why would we as

(43:05):
America allow these last fouryears of unprecedented illegal
immigration happened?

As well as I do, there's a bunch of theories to
that.
Now, if you're asking MattThomas what he thinks, I think
that there, there are peoplethat have been elected into our
government that have made theirway into our government that
mean to do our country harm.
And they understand, especiallyif you look at, if you look at
Sun tsu, If you study anythingto do with warfare, it is much

(43:34):
easier to beat your enemywithout a fight.
And I think a lot of countriesunderstand that if they come at
us head on that's gonna be afight, right?
We're gonna have a lot of peoplethat step up to the plate.
Just like in World War II whenwe got attacked just like nine
11 when we got attacked we arealways willing to go to a good
fight if somebody starts it.

(43:56):
But I think you have a lot ofpeople around the world that
don't like us.
I think that they understand howto take us down without a fight.
And I think that has happenedsomewhat in our government, that
people have gotten intopositions where they can make
policy change policy, steer ourgovernment in certain directions

(44:16):
and they have bad intentions forthe country.
And I think some of that isthat.
And then I also think that, alot of these politicians are so
self-serving that they're onlyworried about what they get for
themselves and be damned withwhat happens to the country.
So

So I agree with everything you just said, but to
what end, what's their end?
With those ones with badintentions, what do you think
their end game is?

I think the end game is to end America as it
looks.
I don't know what the aftereffect would look like, but I
think they are wanting to tearus down internally to where we
become so divided that there'sjust fighting going on, and
while we're all fighting eachother and trying to figure out

(45:03):
what's going on, they'reslipping in and they're just
there's an argument there thatsome of these countries are
specifically pushing.
uh, Numbers into our country sothat they can tilt that into
their favor.
And if you wanna get really downthe rabbit hole and you look at
China and the China pushing inChinese nationals, especially

(45:24):
military age males I think thenumbers, I'm not an expert on
this, but I think from theexperts I have listened to, if
they can get 40% that they'vetaken our country and they
control it.
And so I think that's the endgame is to take control of
America and restructure it.
Now, how that looks, I have noidea.

Yeah.
I'm down that same rabbit hole.
You're down.
I just think a lot of peopledon't.
So I read this study recently,and this will probably resonate
with you 30% of us ha can thinkrationally and logically, and
70% are emotional thinkers.
Yes.
And therefore, that's what wesee when we see those people
that live in the glass bubbleand don't think down these

(46:04):
potentially conspiracy rabbitholes to think about the bigger
picture.
Those are the ones that areemotionally driven and wanna
just be told what to think.
That study made a, I was like,ah, okay.
So pissed at society so much.
I get it a little bit more now.
Alright.

Real quick though, to that point, I think
we have, as Americans have toalso pay attention to our school
boards and our schools, becausethat's where it starts and
that's where that type of stuffstarts, right?
How our kids think and how ourkids behave has been manipulated
without a doubt over the pasttwo decades at least, if not

(46:39):
further back.
And that has a direct effectbecause, if you start you're now
you're seeing the, their adults.
They're voting adults, right?
And if they have been, I.
uh, Through our school systemsif their behavior has been
modified, manipulated, steered,whatever into a certain way of
thinking that lines up with thebad guys doing what they want to

(47:00):
do it all lines up perfectly.

You are 100% correct on that.
And Terrance had have just asmuch responsibility as our
schools be.
And I should say even morebecause I, I posted this as the
school year started and it gotquite a bit of attention, both
good and bad.
But I said, as a teacher, yourjob is to teach them not what to
think, but how to think.

(47:28):
And as a parent, same thing.
You're supposed to teach yourkids how to think and ask them
questions and get them curiousand allow them to process what
it's like to think rationallyinstead of just being told what
to think.
Uh, so you're absolutely correcton the school, but the parents,
you really gotta take control athome.
I wanna ask a couple questionsthat are more broad based, um,

(47:51):
tr down the, down this vein, butwe talked about Tua a little
bit, but we got Tom Holmancoming in and Trump's saying,
okay, we're gonna have these,you know, we're gonna have to
have a mass exodus.
of Illegal immigrants from thelaw enforcement side.
How are you guys reacting tothat?
How are you preparing for that?

(48:11):
What, what does that look likeas a, because I know we, we know
it's gonna be ugly.
The media's gonna lambasteveryone for doing it.
Trump and Holman, they alreadyknow they're gonna get the
majority of the hate.
Uh, I think I've lovedeverything that Holman said.
He's well prepared for it.
He is already getting deaththreats.
But from the law enforcementthough, the first level of
defense that's probably gonnahave to shoulder a lot of this,

(48:32):
how are you guys reacting andthinking about this?

Really it's.
I, I I don't wanna sound likejust nonchalant about this, but
it's normal business for usbecause we're used to.
Dealing with our own citizensthat are committing crimes.
Right now, you're just talkingabout a group that is not
citizens here committing crimesbecause they've made it clear
that's who they're going afterfirst, right?

(48:56):
They're going after thecriminals.
They wanna get the criminalsexpelled from this country that
have been allowed in.
And so for that for thosepurposes, we're, there's nothing
that's a problem for us.
And all we're really doing rightnow is of staging because these
are all preliminary talks ofwhat it's gonna look like.
And I know people are, that aretrying to cause mass hysteria
saying, oh, there's gonna bethese mass sweeps where they're

(49:17):
just, going throughneighborhoods and asking for
papers and scooping up families.
And that's all BS man.
What they're doing is going tobe very targeted.
They have very specific bad guysthat have criminal records that
they're going after.
Like these trend awa guys thatthey're gonna be.
Focused on, and what that equalsfor us and local law enforcement

(49:39):
is we're gonna have a lot oftask forces develop is what
you'll see.
A lot of task forces where youhave state, like for us, we
cross designate what's calledcross designate.
So we'll cross designate and oursheriff will swear in border
patrol or ICE agents to be ableto enforce local laws.
So when we partner up, they canenforce local laws and then

(50:02):
they'll cross designate us sothat we can help enforce federal
laws.
So you're gonna see thosepartnerships come together, and
I can tell you already withWashington, DC and your local
cops almost immediately whenpresident Biden took office,
almost immediately he cut offcommunications with law
enforcement throughout the us.
President Trump's team is not inplace yet, but they have already

(50:25):
opened the communication linesand said, Hey, when we take
over, these are some of thethings that we plan on doing,
and they're asking our opinions.
And that's huge, right?
How is this going to affect youat the local level and what's
our best avenue of approach atthe local level?
So we're having conversationswe're working again on, on those
task forces and stuff.

(50:45):
And so it's gonna be a huge teameffort.
And again, I think what you'regoing to see is while it's being
sensationalized by the media andstuff, when you get down to it,
the US people want this.
The US people showed thatclearly in November, and I think
we're gonna have a good backingfrom our, the majority of our

(51:05):
population, and we're gonna pushforward and just get it done.

Yeah, my, my fear I agree and I think the majority
of us do want this because wedon't want I have three
daughters and, like I fear themgrowing and going to college and
having what happened to Lake andRiley happened to one of my
daughters.
That's a nightmare.
Yeah.
Um, and we're done with that.
Like we, we have, enough badcitizens on our own without

(51:30):
having illegal criminals comeover and increase that risk even
further.
The majority do.
My fear is that the media isgonna propagandize so much and
cause divide and hate towardsyou guys again.
That that it starts some evenworse things amongst citizens
like you were referencingearlier, the end game for why
the last four years happened.

Yeah, and I do not disagree with you.
I think they're going to trythat.
But But I also think anotherthing that became clear in
November in post November theelection, is that the American
people have also started to pushback and say, no we're not
buying your crap anymore.
We don't care what you tell us.
We understand that you, themedia are liars like you've been

(52:15):
called the whole time.
We understand that nothingyou're saying has proven true
and it, and essentially liketrue Americans are like, okay,
what does the news say?
Okay, So that's what NationalEnquirer used to be, right?
National Enquirer used to bemagazine that you pick up in the
story and you were like, this isall bs.
Now people look at the news andthey're like, this is all bs.

(52:36):
And like a lot of people that Italk to, they're like, yeah, I
watched the news for the weatherand maybe a few local happenings
and then I turn it off'cause Idon't want to hear it.
It's all rhetoric and it doesn'tmatter which side you're on,
right or left.
It's all rhetoric and peopledon't want that anymore.
And I think honestly, yourplatform podcasts as proven by
this election, this is theplatform where people are going

(52:58):
to get their information.
YouTubes of the world, thepodcasts of the world.
This is where they're coming toget the no BS unfiltered, let's
hear facts kind of stuff.

Because we ask questions that people actually
want to hear.
Like I'm, I actively thinkabout, Hey, what would my
audience want me to ask Matt?

Right?

And so same with Joe Rogan, same with Sean Ryan.
Same with any of the people thatput out real podcasts that are
having real people on, that Havean expertise in a certain area.

And I think another beautiful thing about
the podcast is the ones that'lldo it is we don't have to agree
on everything.
We can have disagreements, butwe can sit here and we can go
back and forth with that andhave a discussion.
And you give me your point ofview.
And I give you my point of view.
You give me facts that supportyour view.
I give you facts that supportmine, and then the people make a
decision what the news used tobe, right?

(53:49):
They would just report facts andthe people decide.
And I think that's a lot of whathappens here with podcasting.

Yeah.
Although I've been questioningmore and more how long the news
has actually reported facts.
Like when Yeah.
when that, when that stopped.
Anyhow.
'cause I still look at thoseimages and videos of us
supposedly landing on the moonand being like, people believe
this, like this is interesting.
Anyhow we won't go down thatrabbit hole

and you're gonna, you're gonna get some
comments on that one.

Oh, I always do.
They're like, every time I saythat, they're like, I bet you
believe the earth is flat too.
I was like, actually, I don'tknow if I believe that one or
not, but I know for damn surethey didn't land on the moon and
then supposedly lose thetechnology.
Now we're 50 years advanced andhave way better technology and
we can't get back there.
I know that for damn sure.
Anyhow, so my last questionsecond to last.

(54:37):
I always ask one consistent oneat the end, and this one we may
or may not agree on, but it cameto mind as I was thinking about
Covid and you would see, and nowthis summer was in California,
some other places where copswould arrest people for not
complying, even being outside.

(54:58):
And I think for those of us,just in the citizens side of
things, we wanna know that thecops have our back when the
government becomes tyrannical.
And I guess my question is ifthey try and push that again,
where do, where and when willthe cops stand up and say, yeah,
we're not doing that.

Oh, we did that last night.
We did that in 2020 from the getgo.
Our agency was one I know youdidn't see it.
Across the board.
And I I can't say that, I can'tsay that you'd see it across the
board again.
I think a lot more would fallinto our because We were the
outliers and we stood up and wesaid, we're not doing that.
People have the right to do whatthey want.
We we caught some hate forallowing a church to hold their

(55:44):
Easter service.
They contacted us, they were inour jurisdiction.
They said, we wanna hold Easterservice.
We're like, yeah.
Hold Easter service.
They said, Hey, we're gonna doeverything that they're saying
to do, know, all the littleseparation that they're talking
about and all that stuff.
We're gonna do all this stuffaccording to their guidelines,
but we're still gonna gatheryeah, gather.
You have a First Amendment rightto do that.
And we're guided by theConstitution, not some made up

(56:05):
rule by a politician.
And when we did that and whenthey let people know that they
were having their service, ofcourse.
The the people that werefreaking out were calling us
killers and murders.
The sheriff and I got so muchhate mail talking about how they
were a good Christian and theirwishing death on my family.
And I'm like, really?
Okay.
And so, we've been through itbefore.

(56:26):
We know what it's like.
We would stand up to it still.
I would hope that there's morelaw enforcement leaders that
understand that they were dupedthe last time and fell for that
stuff because we also, itcarried over to, high school
sporting events.
They would call our office, wewant you to come kick these
people out'cause they're notwearing a mask.
No, that's not our job.
They can, they, they have theright to be wherever they want,

(56:50):
however they wanna be.
There's, these are made uprules.
And, but I do think that youwould see a lot more of law
enforcement standing up againstthat than you saw the last time
because they understandhopefully, that they were duped.

Yeah, people just have such short memories and I
feel like most people havealready forgotten that should
happen.
Where people, they're filling inskate parks with sand and
arresting people for surfing andout and outdoors were, fresh air
last time I checked was actuallya good thing for us, not a bad
thing.

And I'll tell you, like even our governor we
fought with our governor.
The sheriff called him and said,look, governor, I'm not trying
to start a fight, but we're notfollowing your executive orders
because your orders do notoverride the US Constitution,
and that's what we follow.

Yeah.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I hope you're rightbecause that's the, the, I uh,
give you a perspective.
I live in one of the mostliberal counties in the country.

Oh

we have the state capital here and the major
university.
Uh, So we call it 80 squaremiles surrounded by reality.
But my perspective's a littlemore slanted than yours down in
southern Arizona.

yeah.

Good.
I always ask this question atthe end, and it could be on
anything that we talked aboutalready or something just comes
to your heart, but what's anunpopular belief that you hold
to be true that you think mostothers would disagree with?

Oh Oh man.
In today's world I really feellike that's my belief in Jesus
Christ, man.
Um, you know, I, there's timeswhere I feel that's not true.
But I also know that we can getstuck in our own echo chambers,
right?
And you tend to surroundyourself with like-minded
people.
And I know I'm around Christiansa lot but I feel there's a huge

(58:30):
attack on Christianity.
And, I think that that is anunpopular belief, especially.
I.
When you get into government,and I'm a leader in a government
agency.
And I'll openly talk faith andJesus Christ at work with
coworkers if they wanna talkabout it.
I'm not shy about my religionand my beliefs and that can that

(58:54):
can close some conversationsdown pretty quick sometimes.

Yeah.
Well, I'm a hundred percent onboard with you on that belief.
It's interesting.
I think we're seeing a bit ofrevival in some po pockets or
sectors, even with our youth.
We're seeing some great things.

Yeah.

because it's interesting, there's been people
that have been a large portionof people that have been pushed
away from the church.
not an understanding that thechurch or a leader of a church
isn't Jesus

Right.

and they can't separate, it's don't let your
religion get in the way of yourspirituality type.
They can't, in their minds,somehow separate that it could
just be that there was anotherhuman being that pushed you away
from the true being in Jesus.
And I'm spot on with you there.
I think that seeing some, well,I'll give for me.
Go ahead.

Yeah I was gonna say, I'll give you, my example
to, your point I came up in theCatholic church as a, as I got
into this profession, I brokeaway from the church because of
the Catholic church.
And so I got away from my faithbecause of how I felt about the

(01:00:08):
people in the church.
And then when I got back tofaith I got back into a
non-denominational ChristianChurch.
And when I got back to faith.
I started focusing more on Jesusand God and less on the people
because people are people,right?
And we're all imperfect.
And when I started doing that,everything started making a lot

(01:00:32):
more sense for me.
And it's a lot easier to beconnected to your faith that
way.

Josh Kosnick (01:00:37):
Oh, 100% and it also reminded me as You were
tell, telling your first part ofthe story is I wonder if this is
true in law enforcement, ourmilitary friends would tell us
that you never meet an atheistin a foxhole.

Matthew Thomas (01:00:49):
That's right.
That is right.
Yeah.
When when your life is on theline and you realize that it
could be over in the next fewseconds I think a lot of people
have an understanding thatthey're, maybe they think they
don't believe, but they catchsome belief real quick.

Yeah, very much this has been an awesome
conversation.
Where can people follow you?

I am mainly active on Instagram.
I, my handle there is at Deputyonetime and that's again where
I'm most active.
I'm also on LinkedIn, if anybodywants to look for me in the
professional realm.
I'm just, my name Matthew Thomason LinkedIn.
And, I would also remind people,I know we didn't talk about it,
but I have a book out calledInterceptors and it's all about

(01:01:37):
the cartel fight.
So if they're interested in inreading about how we fought some
of the battles we fought downhere against the S cartel, go
give it a read.

would say to everyone, all the Spartans
listening, pick that book up.
Not only as a thank you and.
uh.
Mad for pouring into us today.
But also that's a fascinatingread because the cartels, as he
alluded to have so much power.
And like we, we may watch showslike Narcos and be entertained
by it, but we don't understandthe dev.

(01:02:06):
We may not grasp the devastatingeffect they're having on our
society.
And Matt has been firsthandwitness to a lot of it down
there in Arizona and willcontinue to be throughout his
career.
So support, but also understandthat this is a way bigger deal.
Like how many presidentialcandidates were often Mexico
before they uh, anointed thatwoman?

(01:02:28):
How many was it?

I don't know the number, but I, is that's why
she, I think it was over 10.
yeah.
It's.
It's a thing down there that'sand I have connections through
the cop world with Mexican copsand I.
when you meet, especiallysomebody higher up in a Mexican
police force, you're like, whew,I don't know what his life
expectancy is'cause it's notlong down there.

Yeah, Because the cartels run everything.
The government, I think that itwas a crazy number, like over 10
presidential candidates weremurdered before they, anointed
this woman.

I

you know, she, She works for them because they've,
they control everything downthere.
This has been a greatconversation, really
enlightening.
Matt.
Thank you for your time.

Absolutely.
Jess, thank you for having me.

Alright, Spartan audience, you know what to do.
Share this episode far and wide.
Get the word out.
He gave some great facts, somegreat solutions.
And we know the media is goingto go hard against whatever good
work our law enforcement'strying to do to solve this
problem.
So share this far and wide sothe facts are actually seen and
not media talking heads tellingus what to think.

(01:03:32):
you know what to do.
Remember the good and great arethe enemies of possible lead,
like a Spartan today.

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Chief Deputy Matthew Thomas on Courage, Cartels & the Border Crisis | Ep. 204

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Chief Deputy Matthew Thomas on Courage, Cartels & the Border Crisis | Ep. 204