May 20, 2023 • 63 mins
Passes, the application of spiritual and magnetic healing energies, is a popular activity at Spiritist groups. How does it work? What can it do for us?
Dan, Flavio, and Suzana invite Dr. Sonai Doi, president of the International Spiritist Medical Association, to discuss passes and their uses.
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Episode Transcript
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Dan Assisi (00:14):
Welcome everyone to Spiritist Conversations, a show
where we sit down with friends totalk about Spiritist perspectives,
about everything in our lives in aninformal, unscripted, and unplugged way.
I am Dana Sisi, and I am thrilledto be joined here today by my
friend Susanna Simons and fla.
(00:35):
How are you guys doing?
Suzana Simoes (00:37):
Hello everyone.
Nice to be here with you again.
Flavio Zanetti (00:42):
Hello.
Hello.
Doing great.
Dan and Sue.
Good to see you guys once again.
So happy to be here.
Dan Assisi (00:48):
Very happy to be here today.
We have a wonderful conversation.
Passes.
What are spiritist passes is atopic that comes up quite often.
It's something thatspiritists do frequently.
It's very popular, so wefigured we might have to take
a little bit of a time, right?
Just to talk about it and explainwhat it is and just maybe learn
(01:10):
a thing or two with someone whocan maybe share some perspectives
that we're, might not be used to.
You guys ready?
Flavio Zanetti (01:18):
Yes, let's do this.
Dan Assisi (01:20):
All right, so let's bring our friend, Dr.
Son Sonya, thank you forbeing here with us today.
Hi.
Sonia Doi (01:26):
Hello.
My great friends.
It's an honor to be with you inthe show and to talk about classes.
Yeah, it's exciting.
Dan Assisi (01:36):
Yep.
We're just gonna do what we do,which is dive straight into it.
And the conversation todayit's gonna be fantastic because
it's such an important topic.
And we can just dive straightinto the conversation.
So guys, what are passes?
That's a million dollar question.
Silence.
(02:01):
Good thing we have a guest today.
Huh?
What do you guys think?
And we should, we should, yeah.
Let's ask the guest.
Let's toss the guest right under the bus.
Right.
But, uh, before we do that,we should also say Dr.
Sonya Doy is the president of theUS Spirits Medical Association.
And obviously a spiritist too.
So we thought it would be great to bringsomebody who has a medical background
(02:25):
and a spiritist background to explainto us a little bit, not only how or
what passes could be, but what is themedical base for the efficacy of passes.
Is that something that wejust do in the Spirit Center
because it's part of Spiritism?
Does it actually help us get better?
Is there any proof to it?
(02:46):
How does that all come about?
So we figured it wouldadd that to the mix.
Not that our ESTEEM panel of hostshere couldn't potentially talk about
this, but I think Susanna Flavi willagree that the three of us probably
couldn't go to the depth of knowledgewhen the medical staff that Sonya
could potentially do Absolutely not
Flavio Zanetti (03:05):
agreed.
What she's here with us, right?
Yeah,
Dan Assisi (03:09):
that's right.
That's right.
So what are passes?
Sonia Doi (03:14):
So you want me to dive into it or you guys wanna store?
Talk
Suzana Simoes (03:19):
about,
Flavio Zanetti (03:20):
imagine if you met somebody in the subway,
in, let's see, Washington.
That person told, I asked you whatI thought I saw you talk about bass.
What that thing again?
30 seconds before the next stop.
Why would you tell that
Sonia Doi (03:32):
person?
Oh my goodness.
Yeah, I think this is it, it's aquestion that comes to us in the Spirit
Center every time there's a new personin and, uh, it's not uncommon that a
new person comes to the Spirit Centerand has never heard about passes.
We, you usually start by definingpasses as is defined in Spiritism.
(03:55):
And it, it has a kind of scientificmeaning to it too because as defined
by the, by Francisco, it says that atransfusion of energy that are capable
(04:15):
of changing the cellular fields so thatenergy that is infused to the person.
Through their en energy fieldsare capable of affecting in a good
way, the cellular, the tissues, theorgans, not only the per spiritual
(04:40):
say body, but also the physical body.
And that leads to a good, a better mentalstate and physical state, spiritual state.
So there's several different I wouldsay benefit of it in the whole person.
Not only the physical person, but inthe spiritual component of each one.
(05:05):
So that's what I would say the spirit,this approach, the spirit, this
explanation of passages we usuallyrelate because a lot of people, and
I think you guys have usually hearthis what is the difference between
passes and reiki or passes andjury or passes and healing hands.
(05:28):
So we usually explain that they areall approach similar approaches, and
they are now under, they belong to acategory of healing processes, healing
practices that are under the namebiofield therapy or energy medicine.
(05:52):
And.
And this is, accepted and there'sso many papers coming out now with
all these different practices.
However, with passes, because passes arenot well known here in the states, the
scientific papers the scientific datafor passes are coming from Brazil, from
(06:16):
physicians, British physicians in Brazil.
But in, anyways, they are verysimilar in the approach here.
So there are nonconventionalapproaches to therapy that include
contact and non-contact practices.
Flavio Zanetti (06:36):
Oh my goodness.
Dan Assisi (06:37):
That's so much.
Oh, we unpack right there.
Yeah, I was break.
Flavio Zanetti (06:42):
I wasn't break breaking apart.
Before we get to efficacy, maymaybe go back to basics, right?
Hashtag back to the basics.
Right?
Suzana Simoes (06:49):
Yeah, I have, I have just, just like before we even dive
too deep into anything, just somethingbefore even your basic there, let me
just ask this to sign into all of you.
What is the closest term in Englishto passes us, we know, understand, and
(07:11):
practice it in the spiritual center?
What would you guys say?
Dan Assisi (07:16):
That is a great idea, Susan.
I'll take a stab of it.
I think that for those who may beunfamiliar with passes, the closest
would be a couple of different terms.
We have the laying on of hands,right, which are familiar
within the Christian tradition.
We have reiki that Dr.
Doy just mentioned as well.
(07:36):
But I think that for me, the layingon of hands is the closest to the
Christian and traditional tradition.
Traditional tradition is that Isaid it, you heard it here, guys.
You heard it here first.
Flavio Zanetti (07:48):
Let's go back and edit that afterwards.
Suzana Simoes (07:49):
Yeah, I, I would agree.
I would agree with that.
And I think that that'simportant for us to say.
Yeah, I think that's an importantpoint to start because we take for
granted that people have a senseof what we are talking about.
Right.
And this is not an English term.
So start by, you know, putting a termthat people can relate more closely.
(08:13):
I think it's a good start.
Dan Assisi (08:14):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
And I think that's a great pointthat you're bringing Sue, because
the name passes comes from thepassing of hands over mm-hmm.
A person, right?
Right.
So if you were to walk into a spiritistgroup, this is something that we
generally do with spiritist groups.
Sometimes we do at homeswith our families too.
It's this laying on of handswhere in the spiritist groups,
(08:37):
we're not touching people.
There's no contact there generally.
And we are basically sendingthose good energies that Dr.
Sonya Doy talked about.
And I'm gonna call her Sonya.
Is that okay, Sonya?
That, that's, otherwise I'm gonna be Dr.
Do Dr.
Sonia Doy please.
Let's
Sonia Doi (08:53):
here, please call me Sonya.
I'm sorry,
Dan Assisi (08:58):
go ahead now.
Go ahead.
I cut you off.
Sonia Doi (09:01):
Yeah I completely agree with that.
And here in these states, uh, there'sa practice of called Therapeutic Touch
that is used by many nurses in differenthospitals, and they are not particularly
related to any religion, although theymight be calling it spiritual, but they
(09:27):
are more like practices of compassionand love and peace and intent of healing.
So they're known as healing practicesand several hospitals use that as
healing hands or therapeutic search.
And so this is well known.
(09:49):
And as you mentioned here, Reiki isalso among all the other, is a little
different, but is also a, another practicethat belongs to the energy medicine.
Dan Assisi (10:03):
Great point.
So when you hear, when I was gonnasay really quickly I'm just gonna
talk over a flag cuz that's what I do.
I think that, you know, from now on,whenever you hear the word passes
here, you know that we're talkingabout this laying on of hands.
Mm-hmm.
That we just basically translated intothe passes you know, a passing of hand.
(10:25):
They become passes and you mighthear some Brazilian is called Pai.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Which is the Brazilian term, but it'sbasically the passes the passing of
hands over, which is actually a traditionthat on the western world goes back to
Maser too, and magnetism and so forth.
And even before, we're gonna park thataside and we're gonna bring it to Flavi
because I have also interrupted him.
(10:46):
Flavio.
It's okay.
Welcome
Flavio Zanetti (10:49):
to the club.
I was gonna ask us to,
Dan Assisi (10:52):
I was say, just kidding, just kidding.
Differences
Flavio Zanetti (10:57):
between, as we
Jesus started 2000 years,
Dan Assisi (11:07):
ah, you know, that could be a whole different program.
But I love that.
But it's, I think thatwe go for simplicity.
What do you think, Sue?
I think that's, they'renot very un, un unrelated.
Suzana Simoes (11:20):
No.
And in fact, I think that we draw a.
You know, our practices andJesus is our primary reference.
So when we think about a number oftopics we go back to the way that
Jesus did and how he practiced.
(11:40):
Because he used the greatestof all doctors, the highest of
all therapists and the master.
So he is for us this higher reference.
And so he did that.
He taught us by precisely laying onhis hands over the sick and healing.
(12:02):
And we can get, a little deeperhere and say, getting into issues
like, did he need to do that or not?
But I don't think it's the pointof today, but he's our reference.
And so we.
We understand that we are all energyand that love is, can be moved, can
(12:23):
be transmitted in the form of energy.
And so the same way he did, we seek todo the same with our humble contribution.
But I think that's as I said,it's the reference, it's the
starting point for all of us
Dan Assisi (12:41):
and that's great and starting point.
Yeah, I think it's agreat perspective, Sue.
And I think that is the way I wouldframe this up too, like the end too
is the way we use that in Spiritismis to help us rebalance and heal.
Right.
So it's not uncommon for youif you go to a spiritist group
to have a talk, an activity.
And some of our activities will have amoment of passes at the end where folks
(13:08):
will be invited to either stand, youknow, stay in the chair if they want to
receive the passes, or maybe they will betaken to a passes chamber, like a little
room, which quieter for reflection too.
And we're gonna have somebody,some volunteers come and do this
laying on our hands for themwhile they pray and they reflect.
And the idea is that itwill help us heal, right?
Will help us heal emotionally,physically intellectually,
(13:31):
whatever way you wanna call it.
And we find that it's a constantpractice in our spirits groups.
And the reason why is for the reasonsthat Susanna and Flavia just brought
to us, which is he hearkens backto the beginnings of Christianity
and this idea of healing, right?
But what I think is really great if youguys are ready, is that there's actually.
(13:51):
Some physical, a, there's a physicalaspect to it that can be validated or
thought of that, you know, which isreally fascinating for those of us who
want to obviously focus on the morals,but can also gain some understanding
and some value from understanding thephysics and the medicinal part of it.
Sonia Doi (14:13):
I think I can say something here what, uh,
Susanna brought is very true.
We, you know, Jesus is our model.
He used that in healing and Butwe have now learned even more.
We are not just doing that basedon our faith, but we are doing that
(14:34):
because we have learned about it.
We have learned aboutthe science behind it.
You know, k alreadytalked about the energy.
And when we learned about the prayerspirit and, and the energy that
we all have in in, in every bit ofthe inner the, all the layers of
(15:03):
the peri spirit, the energy thatcirculates through it, and that can
be transmitted through our thoughts.
Remembering that our thoughts is the basefor all this, that focus, that channels
all this energy towards something.
(15:25):
And in this case, if we focus ourthoughts, directing our energy
into healing, into someone's that,that, uh, it, it's what basically
is transmitted through passes.
We also know that in the spiritpasses, we are conveying, we are
(15:49):
channeling our own magnetic energy.
But we are actually the conveying lythe energy from the higher spirits
that are channeled through us withwith our magnetic energy towards
the person who is receiving passes.
(16:10):
In, I, I just wanna bring this in, in themediums book, when Ette talks about the
healing mediums, he mentions that it's notnecessary that a person is a spiritist or
even knows about the spirits, but if theperson has a good intention of doing good
(16:33):
for someone else, this person is alwayshelped assisted by benefactor spirits.
So, This empowers the magneticenergy of that person.
So this is to say we are not betterthan Reiki or Healing Hands or any
(16:54):
other thing because if the person hasa good intention, they are doing good.
Anyways I also want to relatea little bit to the biofield.
If you, if I can go into thatnow or if you have any other
comments before I go into that.
Dan Assisi (17:12):
Yeah, I think we would love to do, cuz you know what the
question that is in my mind is howdo you, how do we know that there
is an effectiveness there, right?
So I think that from a faith perspectivewe grasp it, but you have talked about
the actual measurable or more generallyaccepted impact of healing in general
as it becomes more mainstream, right?
(17:32):
As we open ourselves.
So how do, how do we know howthat works and how does it work?
Suzana Simoes (17:37):
And let me just ask, um, add another question on top of Daniels
and, and after you share that also tellus how is it being used in hospitals
if it, if it has, and if that is partof the research that's being done.
Sonia Doi (17:52):
In some hospitals, they allow people to do reiki mm-hmm.
Because Reiki is more, uh, well known.
As I mentioned, therapeutic touch iswell used in several hospitals here
in, in, in the DC DC area that I know.
But among the other practices I knowthat reiki has been used in several
(18:14):
hospitals and it's kinda allowed in as apractice, as a non-conventional practice.
Did I answer that, Sue?
Suzana Simoes (18:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
And sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
You're going to the biofield?
Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi (18:32):
Yeah, no, the biofield.
I just wanna mention that in 1932a doctor from the Yale University
called Harold Saxton or did someexperiments, some studies and show
that every living being has an kindof field of energy around them.
(18:56):
Being that plant, ananimal or human being.
So just to start with that and that kindof field of energy that, that he showed,
he has shown since you know, his firststudies have been for some time forgotten
by your physicians and researchers.
(19:18):
But now with more recentstudies, it has surfaced again.
And that's how we interact.
Our bio viewed energy interactswith someone else's by afu energy.
And that's how with our intention, we can.
Actually transfer the energythrough our thoughts, through our
(19:43):
intention to the person that is beingreceiving passes or receiving the bio
therapy, whatever that therapy is.
So we have some data that was publishedby the Brazilian doctors, and I think
it's interesting that I would liketo show maybe three slides just to,
(20:08):
to make the connection on the, makethe explanation a little easier.
One of the papers, one of the studieswas done by By a group of physicians
in Brazil with newborn babies.
These newborn babies were inthe I C U or in the hospital.
They were preterm newborns, sothat's why they were in a hospital.
(20:31):
And of course, thesebabies were under stress.
And these group of um, researchersdivided the babies into two groups.
There were only about 13, uh, babiesin each group, and one group was
assisted by spiritist, uh, peoplewho were trained in spirited centers.
(20:56):
So they knew how to apply passes.
The other group was assisted by peoplewho were not com, were not trained, uh,
didn't know about passes in any otherof these healing therapies, however,
they were instructed to have to bethere with their hands on the babies.
(21:18):
15 centimeters above distant fromthe babies with good intention.
Or healing intention.
So both groups had healing intention,but one group was people who were
trained in this practice centersat least two years of training.
And they, they did some measurements.
(21:39):
The group, both groups of babiesreceived this energy for 10 minutes
each time during three consecutive days.
And the researchers measured severalthings, measured salivary cortisol,
which is the hormone stress hormone.
They measure the heart rate, respiratoryfrequency oxygen saturation, and the
(22:05):
duration of stay in the hospital.
And all the measurements show animprovement in the group that was
assisted by Spirit Passagers comparedto the group that were assisted
by non practitioners of spiritism.
(22:27):
But the one measurement that wassignificantly, statistically significant
different was the respiratory rate.
So in the graph, the group that wasnot was shown in blue in this graph
that was received just intention.
But there were the control, consideredthe control group, meaning there were
(22:50):
no No spiritists versus the one thatwere spiritists in, shown in red here.
So we see a significant decreasein the respiratory rate.
So as you know, respiratory rateincreases when we are stressed out, right?
Stress, we breathe more frequently.
(23:11):
The frequency increases and yousee the group of babies that were
received passes, spirits passeshad lower and lower and lower.
Respiratory rate.
So that kind of implied a decreasein stress of these babies.
Dan Assisi (23:31):
Mm-hmm.
Fascinating soya.
So let's just make sure I got this right.
So basically this research was donewith a group of babies in a hospital
that we're in a delicate situation ish.
Right.
Or more delicate I should say.
And it, they were dividedinto three different groups.
Two babies who?
Two.
Two, okay.
Got it.
So there, there was not one thatdid not receive any treatment
Sonia Doi (23:52):
at all.
Right.
I was going to talkabout this in a minute.
Yeah.
Dan Assisi (23:55):
Mm-hmm.
So, sorry.
So go ahead cuz I, Itotally run you over there.
Sonia Doi (24:00):
No, no, no.
I think it's good that you broughtjust what I was going to say now.
Mm-hmm.
One criticism of this, uh, this workis that there was no, a third group,
the third group should be babies whohad not received any treatment at all.
Dan Assisi (24:15):
Gotcha.
Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi (24:16):
So here we had one with Spiritist passes, one with just
intention with no spiritist, uh, passes.
But we didn't have a group thatdidn't receive any treatment at all.
Dan Assisi (24:29):
But yet, yet, there was statistical significance.
Right.
And that means that the Ians runsome sort of formula and tell you,
yeah, these changes are not random.
They are significant
Sonia Doi (24:42):
exactly for respiratory rate.
Mm-hmm.
The other ones, there was a trendto decrease in heart rate, tend to
decrease in cortisone levels andsaturation and duration in the hospital.
So they, they were released earlier,however, by statistic methods they
(25:03):
were not significant, meaning thedifference was not that great.
Mm-hmm.
And a comment that I had here isthat the group that did not receive
spirit test passes had peoplewho were, had good intentions.
They were vibratinghealing for these patients.
(25:25):
Mm-hmm.
So apparently, you know, the spiritistpasses because maybe because they were
more concentrated or any other reasonthere was a little better results.
But this work, although thereis a criticism on the missing
(25:45):
of a real control group and theother thing, they're very small.
Uh, the number of patients is very small.
It's only 13.
So this for.
For a trial, clinical trial, this isan extremely small number of patients.
So it is actually no wonder we, we didnot achieve statistical significance.
(26:09):
We usually, we need a lotmore much higher number.
But anyways, one I'll say downside isthat the lack of a real control group.
But on the other hand, this is a goodstudy because these were premature babies.
They had no conscience of what's going on.
(26:33):
So you take away the bias of, okay, Iam, you know, conscious consciously.
Because I know that I'm receivingpasses my mind is influencing
the results, the placebo.
So I think that decreasesthe bias of that Yeah.
(26:53):
The placebo effect.
Flavio Zanetti (26:58):
Fascinating.
Yeah.
That, that's fascinating cuz it really, itreally showcases the efficacy of passes.
Exactly.
Although in a small, you know, samplingrate, sampling, you know, numbers really,
you know, again it's, it's everywhere.
When we look at efficacy, thisis a great study, at least you
know, the way I look at it.
Right?
Dan Assisi (27:17):
Yeah.
And I like that we are looking at it too.
And obviously there's waymore research to be done.
And the question also, Comes up arepeople willing to do this research?
Right?
Because sometimes it's hard to fundresearch and will the credibility of the
researcher take a hit because it's tryingto measure things that are spiritual.
(27:37):
All these things come into play,but I just love that we are
beginning to really dive deeperand try to prove scientifically
whether it has an impact or not.
And if it doesn't have an impact,scientifically, we've gotta own up
and say, all right, maybe it's justa placebo effect psychologically
that makes us feel better.
But it looks like if I'm reading thisright, Sonya, that we are beginning
(27:59):
to see that there is actual evidencethat's pointing us to the fact that
there is a physical improvement.
On those who receive passes.
Sonia Doi (28:08):
Exactly.
As you mentioned thisstudy is a small study.
It needs, you would need a, a.
Real control group, but as you alsomentioned, it's very difficult to be to
have funding for this type of research.
And it's also very difficultthat a hospital would allow you
to do this type of research.
(28:30):
Yeah, we need more studies.
Uh, it's interesting that here in theStates, if you look at the medical
literature, you find a lot morestudies that have done, have been
done with reiki, for example, because.
People know Reiki better, and becauseReiki has been used in hospitals already,
(28:52):
so there it's a little easier to do that.
So we are still trying to bringmore awareness about Spiritism
and Spiritist passes to say, okay,here's the analogy, and it's similar.
So why we cannot domore studies with faces.
Mm-hmm.
Dan Assisi (29:12):
So, so
Flavio Zanetti (29:13):
Sonia, I wanted to maybe if I'm, uh, if I'm seeing this for the
first time, right back to research why,what is so special about spirits passages?
Because if the other group were also wasalso, showing or their best, efforts,
their best intentions, but the groupthat had training had better results.
What makes, you know,what's the difference in.
Sonia Doi (29:39):
I cannot actually answer that.
With certainty I can onlymake assumptions here.
And one assumption, because of course,this, to answer that we should do
some kind of measurable researchto answer that, but my thoughts
are I have two thoughts about it.
(29:59):
One is that People who were trained asa spiritists they're used to do this.
They are focused, they pray, and they,they prepare themselves before they have
a good connection with the spirit world.
And maybe that has helpedin, in, in the mm-hmm.
(30:22):
Result in the final result.
The other thing is that maybe thegroup that were only working with
intention was not so focused, you know,I have intention, but yeah, they were
thinking about something else and.
We know that in Spiritismwhen we do that, we are really
(30:45):
focused on what we are doing.
We are connected, we arepraying and so forth, so on.
Another thing that I have, um, to sayabout that is that they used 10 minutes
for the practice in the spirit centers.
We don't do 10 minutes.
We usually, you know, it's one to twominutes, so 10 minutes is a lot longer.
(31:09):
So I wonder if the person who were not.
Spirit practitioners they, youknow, kind of their thoughts
wondered about on other things
Dan Assisi (31:22):
during, or even if there were, even if there
were spiritist practitioners.
I was gonna say that, yeah.
Right.
To hold that intention for 10minutes, like a pure intention.
And it's really, really,
Suzana Simoes (31:33):
really hard.
Really hard.
Yeah.
I have, I have a joke sometimes at thecenter say, people don't make these long
prayers cause you're gonna lose half ofthe audience in the middle of the way.
Cause we have a difficulttime staying, you know, put
without thoughts for a minute.
Dan Assisi (31:51):
Can we?
Yeah.
Can we characters, can we
Flavio Zanetti (32:03):
person to or whoever.
Wants to become a pass giver.
So if I enter a, a spirit center, hey,why, what are the credentials of the
individual that's giving me passes?
Dan Assisi (32:13):
Oh, I love that flag.
That's a great point.
Yeah.
So what's the credential, right?
Do you have to go to credentialingschools and get the credential?
A credential, pass giver?
No.
I think that not in ourpractice, everybody can do it.
That's the beautiful thing too.
Like, and we've sort of seen this alsowith mothers, for instance, right?
Where they, their kids get hurtsometimes they just kiss their kid,
(32:37):
they put their hand, they even justblow over their booboos, right?
And there's just different ways ordifferent modalities of doing that
intentional transfusion of energythat, that Sonya talked about.
But in the Spiritist group, some groupswill have a sort of preparation approach.
And I think I see Susanna sortof agreeing with me there, right?
(32:57):
Sue?
I.
Suzana Simoes (32:59):
Yeah, I was I was agreeing with your previous thought
as well, which I was going to say.
Um, what you're talking aboutwith the mothers takes us to a
different angle, which is passesoutside of the spiritual center.
Which, I think here we, we seek to talkabout, spiritual things, but always bring
(33:20):
to, what does that mean on a day-to-day?
Maybe not everybody can maketo the spiritual center.
Right?
So, so that means I cannot receive it.
So that's where my mind went.
Yeah, with with a mother, with a hug,with a friend, any, an intentional
transfusion of energy, the difference isthat when you are at the spiritual center,
(33:43):
right, so we have a, the environment,which is an environment of prayer.
Of people enter and usually theyinvited to elevate their vibratory
frequency by listening to uh, upliftingtalk, invited to, to do their prayers,
(34:04):
to connect with the higher source.
So we really creates avibratory environment that
is very beneficial in itself.
And when the person is in that environmentand open himself with trust, with
surrender, the person also createsoptimal circumstances to receive.
(34:26):
So that is another aspect there isthe aspect of the past operation
Flavio Zanetti (34:32):
to do its operation
Suzana Simoes (34:33):
to receive, yeah.
Right.
That needs to, you know, it'shelpful if you have an understanding.
I mean, Sonia, um, early onwas talking about pure spirit,
for example, which is the.
Spiritual body.
The energetic body.
So if you have a minimal understandingabout it's helpful if you have an
(34:56):
understanding that we can't, like wehave mentioned here, manipulate the
fluids or the energy with the powerof our thoughts, that's also helpful.
So there are some basic concepts that oncewe know them, we can become more effective
(35:18):
practitioners, just like anything else.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And same thing for theperson who is receiving.
If you want the sun to enter your house,you have to open the windows the curtains.
So that's an analogy that I liketo always use if you sit there, but
(35:41):
your mind is caught up in distrust.
Suspicion or whatever that might be,or elsewhere, nowhere to be found.
Your body's there, butyour, your mind isn't.
Then similarly, You are notreally putting yourself in that
(36:03):
ideal position to, to receive.
Dan Assisi (36:07):
Yeah, and that's a great point too, Sue, because at the Spiritist
group to go back to the, to that piece,like can anyone just walk in and do it?
Generally what Spiritist groups willhave, they will have their own training
program, right, where they will helppeople prepare to do their best in
obviously giving of themselves in the,in those moments, and will ask for people
(36:30):
to make a commitment that in that day,in that moment those will sometimes
call passes or past givers are going tocommit to make sure that they, have done
a good job of concentrating, of having agreat day so that they don't go in there.
With all their worries and notbeing able to be a good channel
from those energies from above.
(36:50):
Right?
So absolutely free too.
I think we should mention this too, right?
Yeah.
All of these practices alwaysfree at spirit as groups too.
If you are looking to receive passesor I think that they could help you
establish yourself a little bit.
In general, it's always a good idea togo to a spiritist group and generally
the passes are done after a talk or aninspiring moment because it helps you
(37:15):
concentrate in getting to the vibratoryrange that Susanna was talking about.
So that's why passes are generallydone at the end of activities because
by then the past receiver has alreadybegan to open him or herself to those
good messages, uc influences, whichmeans it's more likely that the effect
(37:35):
of the passes are going to take hold.
Right.
So fantastic.
So, Sonya, are there other pieces ofresearch or efforts out there that
Suzana Simoes (37:47):
Yeah.
Was curious about?
I was curious about that.
I love, I love hearing about the firstone, so it's like, is there another one?
Sonia Doi (37:55):
Yeah, there's a actually this group that, that did the work with babies
did, I think they published another.
Two, three papers, but I onlybrought one more from them.
And then another onethat is interesting too.
So the next one is they looked atpeople who were hospitalized for
(38:16):
in a cardiac cardiovascular ward.
And they actually selected patientsthat had depression anxiety.
And they did there were 41 patients,they divided in three groups.
Now they have one group which is acontrol didn't receive any therapy at all.
(38:37):
One group that were assisted by spirittrainees and trained people, and
the other one with just intention.
Again, here, there was a group thatWere not trained in spirit passes,
but they were there with their handson for 10 minutes, three days, and
(39:00):
with intention, healing intention.
So in this group, they alsomeasured several things.
They measure depression, muscletension, wellbeing, and like heart rate,
pain intensity and so forth, so on.
And again, there was somedifferences in both groups.
(39:23):
Both groups had improvements, bothmeaning the spiritist passes and
the other that were not spiritist,but received some healing intention.
Both groups had.
Improvement in all the things thatwere measured against the group
that didn't receive anything,that the real control group.
(39:47):
However, the the most strikingdifference, the most significant
difference was in anxiety and depression.
This is measured by somekind of score scoring system.
So there, there is a systematicscoring system that is acceptable
for publications and studies.
(40:08):
So they used a specific scoringsystem to measure anxiety and to
measure depression prior to andafter three days of of treatment.
And the.
When they measure anxiety, whenthey measure depression, these
(40:29):
scores were basically the samebefore and after the procedure,
after the three days of treatment.
There was no difference whatsoeverin the group that received the
spirit test passes, which in thisslide, uh, has a red mark around.
Yeah.
We see a marked difference.
(40:52):
So for example the score was 9.6.
Prior to the passes and afterthe, after three days of passes,
it dropped to 3.7, so it was abig drop in the score of anxiety.
The group that were received only the, thetreatment with intention but was not split
(41:16):
as passes, also didn't have any change.
It was like the control group.
It started with 7.9 andended af after three days.
The score was still 7.9 inthe measurement of depression.
The control group without treatmentdidn't have any change comparing
(41:37):
previous treatment, and after threedays of treatment, it was 7.8 7.9.
The group that received only intentionaltreatment, no passes, also didn't have
change after three days of treatment.
Started with 6.8 and went to 6.3.
(41:57):
Mm-hmm.
However, the group that received SP testpasses, it started with a score of six
on depression rate and dropped to 4.2.
So the highest drop, the highesteffect was an anxiety, which dropped
from nine to 3.7, but both anxiety anddepression was improved significantly.
(42:26):
So this is, this is also another,you know, beautiful work on how this.
How we can see the effectof the spirit passes.
And although there was intentionin the other group, for some
reason here, we didn't see any,
(42:48):
any improvement changes.
Flavio Zanetti (42:50):
Now.
Now let me ask a curveball question.
We're in this world thateverything is hybrid.
We're, we're gathering herethrough, through technology.
Can I like, do passes viazoom or via a virtual meeting?
Is it even possible to have passes remote?
Suzana Simoes (43:05):
What do you guys think?
It's
Sonia Doi (43:06):
a great question, FLA.
Great question.
You know why?
Because we know that wecan do distant healing.
We can do that.
We can pray for someonethat's far from here.
And, at some point this was only donein Berkeley and people saying, yeah,
(43:30):
you know, I got better or something.
But there's a group in Portugal,uh, actually they were not
even in, in medical sciences.
They are in engineering school, andthey designed a work and I, I don't
have much time to talk about that today,but it's a great, interesting work.
(43:53):
They had people who were trained inreiki and people who were trained in
therapeutic touch, uh, in different partsof the world, in Portugal, in Switzerland,
in I forgot different countries.
So what they do, they put.
Water about two bottles ofwater in their laboratory.
(44:17):
In Portugal.
Portugal in the School of Engineering.
They took a picture of that.
I'm Synthes, you know, summarizing that.
It's a little more complex.
But they took a picture of that, sentthrough email to all these practitioners
and asked, in this day and this day, youare going to be doing a healing intention.
(44:39):
You're gonna be praying sending healingthoughts to this bottle of water labeled
A, for example, not to the bottlelabel B, just to the bottle label A
and you do this for 10 minutes or so.
So they had people all overthe world right doing this.
(45:02):
Nobody was local.
Then the water was testedfor several thanks for.
Chemical properties forthe physical properties.
And they also had an instrument thatI don't recall now the name, but they
had an instrument at that place in theroom to measure, uh, to measure energy.
(45:31):
Okay.
So it was incredible.
I can send you then the, the link to this.
Mm-hmm.
It this work, but Sure.
Can you
Suzana Simoes (45:41):
share?
Yeah.
Afterwards,
Sonia Doi (45:43):
it was very interesting because they showed that not only there
were improvement on or changes in thephysical and physical chemistry of
the molecules of water in the bottlethat people were direct to send their
thoughts to the other bottle was closedto it, but was not the one that people
(46:11):
should direct their, their thoughts to.
There were some changes there because itwas close to it, but not as much as on the
bottle that they were asked to pray for.
The other interesting thing isthat, The level of energy increased
(46:31):
dramatically from the first day whenthey started praying four up to the
third day and persisted for 15 days.
It was dropping gradually and, butthe level of energy, that residual
energy was there for about 15days, which for me was amazing.
(46:55):
And I'm thinking, yes, imagineour spirit centers where we
are praying every so often.
How much energy is accumulating thereand is maintained and remains there.
So this work not only shows theeffect distance, but also the level
(47:18):
of energy that persists after a while.
Dan Assisi (47:21):
And that's easy to relate to from a popular perspective
because it's about the atmosphereor shall we say the vibe, right?
Mm-hmm.
So we're talking aboutgood vibes here, right?
So when you go into an environment thathas that healthy mental attitude, in
this case spiritual attitude, sometimespeople can feel the vibe, right?
(47:43):
You can feel that, that that's a differentenvironment, that it feels good, it
feels relaxing, and it's lovely to seethe validation to that coming through
science and making us understand that.
So it's lovely to see that theseenergies can travel far distances
cuz they're so subtle, right?
Absolutely.
And it's fascinating, fascinating.
Sonia Doi (48:02):
If you, if you're interested enough, there is
one more work, scientific work
Dan Assisi (48:08):
now with
Suzana Simoes (48:09):
bacteria.
Sonia Doi (48:10):
That's great.
You know, we are, we're talkingabout the effects on people, but
look at this, this is bacteria.
Dan Assisi (48:18):
Bacteria are future people too, people.
Flavio Zanetti (48:20):
Talk bacteria.
Suzana Simoes (48:22):
That's funny.
Sonia Doi (48:24):
They don't have a brain.
But anyways, this was a, a,an incredible work of Dr.
Jean Carlo Lu in Brazil.
He's one of the most spiritsscientists that publishes in the world.
And this is a very interesting,but I'm going to just summarize.
So what he did, he did bacteria cultureand he divided in actually several groups.
(48:51):
But let's talk about three main groups.
One with people who were trainedin passes, spirit passes.
One that only had intention but ofhealing, but were not Spirit pass trained.
And the other wave, nointention whatsoever.
(49:11):
So he had that.
And also he then divided these groupsinto different levels of intention.
Completely unin all eachone of these groups.
Unintentional, intentional,inhibiting bacteria growth, promoting
bacteria growth and negative effect.
(49:34):
For, there were people in the laboratorywith the sculptors of bacteria, the ones
that were not to have any intention.
They were with a headphoneand a video in front of them.
So the bacteria is here, but they weresupposed to be watching the video,
so by watching a video, they were notkind of thinking about the bacteria.
(49:59):
They had their hands there, butthey were watching a video, the
other one with negative effects.
They were watching a veryviolent type of video.
So to kind of bring a negativeenergy over the bacteria and.
Anyway, so with all of this differentgroups, the most significant effect
(50:26):
was the effect of spirit passeson the bacteria culture that had
intention to inhibit bacteria growth.
So those were the onesthat were most affected.
When he asked all these three groupsthe with passes, with intention, non
(50:48):
intention to inhibit bacteria growth.
The group that had most effecton inhibiting bacteri arterial
growth is the, was the groups ofpeople who practice British passes.
In this graph, under, in the redrectangle, you see the dark bars.
(51:10):
And this was in.
Two days, uh, in, I don't remember somehours and then two weeks of treatment.
But anyways, the question is they werenot able to increase bacteria growth.
And why is this?
(51:31):
In the paper, there isa discussion about it.
The authors already talking about it,and they said it's very difficult for,
if you consciously think about bacteria,you think about bacteria being something
damaging and you don't want it to grow.
So how could you have agood intention to and, and.
(51:59):
Kind of vibrate for the increase ofbacteria growth, usually because we
see bacteria as a damaging effect.
We want bacteria to not to grow.
We want to inhibit bacteria growth.
We want to combat the bacteriaand not to increase growth.
(52:21):
So I think that's what was the,that's why the effect was better seen,
better noted, and more significantin decreasing the bacteria growth.
But this was interesting because itwas bacteria, not people we see the
Suzana Simoes (52:42):
effect.
Dan Assisi (52:45):
Fascinating.
Fascinating.
So I love that there is a, abreadth of different things coming.
So we, there have been studies withbabies with bacteria with people.
And I think that they're beginning topoint to something that we intuitively
and maybe religiously or spirituallyhave believed in, that our thoughts have
(53:07):
power and that it can be even augmentedwhen we're connected to the divine.
Right.
So it's reassuring to see thatwe're finding a way there.
And for us, spiritists that's reallyimportant because we have always put
extra effort in trying to understandthe physical world around us and how
it relates to the spiritual world.
Sort of like in the definition ofspiritism in a way, that Keck gave us.
(53:30):
And so to see that the, our spiritualselves, our, you know, the intelligence
principle that we are, can affect changevia our thoughts into our physical world.
Even though the energies arevery still very different, is
reassuring many different ways.
It's also.
A little bit of a tale oftwo perspectives, right?
Because it also begs the question, wow,if our intention can bring about positive
(53:57):
impact, what kind of intention and focusare we having during our day-to-day lives?
And what kind of interactions arewe having with people around us?
Of course, this also has theaugmentation of spirituality, right?
So passes.
It's not just our energy, as youwas said, it's also our request
from spiritual helpers to kindof augment that which we have.
(54:19):
But it does beg the question, doesn't it?
What are we doing to make surethat we're good practitioners of
transmitting good energies to people?
Suzana Simoes (54:29):
You just left in my mouth, a taste for like, I want some more.
You know?
Yes.
Like, yes, the craving.
This is amazing, amazing, uh, work.
Thank you for sharing with us.
It was very, uh, enlightening.
I have a number of people in mymind that I wanna send directly the
link and say, Hey, look at this.
(54:51):
It's very exciting news.
And again, I just can't waitto see what else is coming.
Dan Assisi (54:57):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And while we do that, let's do our wrapup as our time begins to run away from us.
Flavia, what's your biggesttakeaway from today?
Flavio Zanetti (55:07):
My biggest takeaway is that there's a lot of
benefits from receiving passes.
If you looking for that, go to yournewest spirit center and look for it.
There's definitely a lot ofbenefits from receiving passes.
I also took away that the there's someprerequisites for that person to become,
or for someone to become a best giver.
(55:29):
As we talked about, everycenter will be different, but
there are some re requisites.
For the person to do that.
And love, love, love is seeingSonya's, you know, breadth of
expertise and academic know-how.
Show us that science is catchingon while we as spirits have
learned, for many, many years.
So that's fantastic, right?
Those two worlds colliding, so to speak.
(55:51):
Love it.
Dan Assisi (55:54):
And Sue, what would you say stuck with you
the most during this episode?
Suzana Simoes (56:00):
Well, I, I kind of already said I'm, I mean, I, I love research.
So I'm kind of, I waslike, I needed more time.
I wanna go back.
I wanna look at it, Iwanna understand it better.
Um, so I'm left with some excitement,but also it's, um, something that for
(56:23):
people to consider a lot of times.
People wondering, what can I do?
How can I help?
And this is a way of helping othersthat actually not only helping others
by sharing a little bit of somethingthat we all have, which is energy
but it also is an exercise of faith.
(56:46):
And at the very end, we didn'thave a chance to talk about it.
But I did see a question about itis also as you give, you receive.
Mm-hmm.
Because you are never alone.
So you are being also a channelof some spiritual energy
that's coming through you.
(57:07):
So it's a double win.
You win because you arehelping someone else.
You win because you are helping yourself.
And at the very end is it'sjust a wonderful practice
that is available to everyone.
Dan Assisi (57:23):
And before we give Sonia a final words, I'm gonna jump in
and say a hundred percent to whatyou guys smart people just said.
And I think what's really cool toois that we haven't explicitly called
this one out, but to talk aboutpasses is to talk about prayer.
And so there is littledistinction in a way, right?
(57:43):
Because everything that we werethinking about and talking about
here today also applies to prayer.
And in a way you can almost saythat passes are an intentional,
intentionally directed type of prayer.
So it's also reassuring for us, Ithink to know that our prayers, our.
Effort to ask and act on behalfof others spiritually can also
(58:08):
be registered intentionally andscientifically and physically.
And I'm really thrilled too, like Zawas saying, that we are beginning to
from a physical perspective, from alike a material perspective, really
pay attention to this and try tounderstand what are those changes.
Because this is not an alternativeto traditional treatment, but it
(58:29):
could be a compliment to it, right?
I think that's something that wedidn't really talk much about this.
We're all, we're all, we're allup for medical treatment Yes.
To all that.
Cuz medicine also comesfrom God people, right?
We've got like evolutionof knowledge, right?
Including medicine.
And we need to respect and honor that.
But these are other practices that wecan augment, that we can layer upon
(58:51):
all the other things that we are doing.
And especially in this world ofchallenges right now with mental
health and a lot of depression.
This could be.
Interesting thing.
So I'm really grateful thatwe have this experience.
And so, maybe it's a goodtime to turn to Sonia.
Sonya, what is the most interestingpiece about all these studies and
things that you see and you learnabout and you talk to people about?
Sonia Doi (59:14):
First of all I love all your comments and I wanna thank you for
letting me participate in this talk.
But I have seen a lot of research comingmore recently, not only about passes,
but about the how we can benefit otherswith our thoughts, our intentions.
(59:36):
And and we want to, in the, as I representthe Spirit Medical Association, we
support research, and we want to see moreresearch in this field because of course,
you know, faith is important, faithis the base of it, but when it's like
(59:58):
spiritism, when we have the explanation,we can understand the defects behind it.
That makes our faith a lot strongerand it can make it more effective.
So I think that We are as thespirit, as medical association, our
(01:00:19):
mission is to educate the healthcareprofessionals and to support research
on the impact of the spirit or so inour, in physical and mental health.
I would like, I have seen moreand more, I'm very enthusiastic
about the research that is comingout, but we are really trying to
(01:00:42):
simulate people to do more research.
Flavio Zanetti (01:00:45):
So, Sonya, I, I can read some people's minds right now.
They might be listening tous later or watching us this
through our YouTube channel.
If they have questions, if theywanna connect with you or the medical
association, where do they go?
Sonia Doi (01:00:59):
The best is to go to our website, www dot sme.
Dot org.
That's it.
And that's correct.
We can send, there's a contact usbutton, so you can send us question.
We are having several events now.
(01:01:22):
Every month we have somethingonline and we have added
discussion on scientific papers.
So every other month we have ascientific discussion with a panel.
So you are invited and we are doingsome changes in our website that may
(01:01:42):
not be there yet, but will soon bethe whole schedule will be in the
website and everyone can join in.
Dan Assisi (01:01:50):
Fantastic.
And it's always wonderful.
Always a good, yeah.
Go ahead.
Su Susanna.
Sorry.
Suzana Simoes (01:01:54):
No, I just said wonderful.
Dan Assisi (01:01:57):
Thank you.
Yeah, I was gonna say that I lovethat US Spirit Medical Association
is also providing opportunitiesfor those of us who are not medical
doctors to be engaged as well.
So if you feel like you willknow more, go over there,
subscribe, check out their events.
I am a member as well, and I'mnot a medical doctor, but I love
hearing about the stuff and I'mreally excited about all the work.
(01:02:19):
So thank you Sonya.
Thank you for all that youguys are doing over there.
We really appreciate
Sonia Doi (01:02:23):
you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for the opportunityto be here, to talk a little
bit to learn with all of you.
Thank you.
Dan Assisi (01:02:32):
Yeah.
So we're coming to the end friends,and if you would like to know more
about Spiritist Conversations, wesuggest that you visit our website,
spiritist conversations.org.
We wanna remind you as well that youcan find past episodes on YouTube or
Facebook if you would like to watch it.
If you prefer to hear it like I do, youcan head over to your favorite podcast
(01:02:57):
platform and download our episodes.
We'll be sure to include somelinks to the research that Dr.
Sonya Doy shared with us today inour show notes as well, so that
you can find it for yourself.
But thank you very much.
Thank you for watching and forlistening to Spiritist Conversation, a
production of The Spiritist Institute.
We hope that you have enjoyedit, and if you did, please
(01:03:18):
share, tell somebody about it.
He helps us get the word out.
We hope to see you next time.
Thanks for being with us.
Welcome everyone to Spiritist Conversations, a show
where we sit down with friends totalk about Spiritist perspectives,
about everything in our lives in aninformal, unscripted, and unplugged way.
I am Dana Sisi, and I am thrilledto be joined here today by my
friend Susanna Simons and fla.
(00:35):
How are you guys doing?
Suzana Simoes (00:37):
Hello everyone.
Nice to be here with you again.
Flavio Zanetti (00:42):
Hello.
Hello.
Doing great.
Dan and Sue.
Good to see you guys once again.
So happy to be here.
Dan Assisi (00:48):
Very happy to be here today.
We have a wonderful conversation.
Passes.
What are spiritist passes is atopic that comes up quite often.
It's something thatspiritists do frequently.
It's very popular, so wefigured we might have to take
a little bit of a time, right?
Just to talk about it and explainwhat it is and just maybe learn
(01:10):
a thing or two with someone whocan maybe share some perspectives
that we're, might not be used to.
You guys ready?
Flavio Zanetti (01:18):
Yes, let's do this.
Dan Assisi (01:20):
All right, so let's bring our friend, Dr.
Son Sonya, thank you forbeing here with us today.
Hi.
Sonia Doi (01:26):
Hello.
My great friends.
It's an honor to be with you inthe show and to talk about classes.
Yeah, it's exciting.
Dan Assisi (01:36):
Yep.
We're just gonna do what we do,which is dive straight into it.
And the conversation todayit's gonna be fantastic because
it's such an important topic.
And we can just dive straightinto the conversation.
So guys, what are passes?
That's a million dollar question.
Silence.
(02:01):
Good thing we have a guest today.
Huh?
What do you guys think?
And we should, we should, yeah.
Let's ask the guest.
Let's toss the guest right under the bus.
Right.
But, uh, before we do that,we should also say Dr.
Sonya Doy is the president of theUS Spirits Medical Association.
And obviously a spiritist too.
So we thought it would be great to bringsomebody who has a medical background
(02:25):
and a spiritist background to explainto us a little bit, not only how or
what passes could be, but what is themedical base for the efficacy of passes.
Is that something that wejust do in the Spirit Center
because it's part of Spiritism?
Does it actually help us get better?
Is there any proof to it?
(02:46):
How does that all come about?
So we figured it wouldadd that to the mix.
Not that our ESTEEM panel of hostshere couldn't potentially talk about
this, but I think Susanna Flavi willagree that the three of us probably
couldn't go to the depth of knowledgewhen the medical staff that Sonya
could potentially do Absolutely not
Flavio Zanetti (03:05):
agreed.
What she's here with us, right?
Yeah,
Dan Assisi (03:09):
that's right.
That's right.
So what are passes?
Sonia Doi (03:14):
So you want me to dive into it or you guys wanna store?
Talk
Suzana Simoes (03:19):
about,
Flavio Zanetti (03:20):
imagine if you met somebody in the subway,
in, let's see, Washington.
That person told, I asked you whatI thought I saw you talk about bass.
What that thing again?
30 seconds before the next stop.
Why would you tell that
Sonia Doi (03:32):
person?
Oh my goodness.
Yeah, I think this is it, it's aquestion that comes to us in the Spirit
Center every time there's a new personin and, uh, it's not uncommon that a
new person comes to the Spirit Centerand has never heard about passes.
We, you usually start by definingpasses as is defined in Spiritism.
(03:55):
And it, it has a kind of scientificmeaning to it too because as defined
by the, by Francisco, it says that atransfusion of energy that are capable
(04:15):
of changing the cellular fields so thatenergy that is infused to the person.
Through their en energy fieldsare capable of affecting in a good
way, the cellular, the tissues, theorgans, not only the per spiritual
(04:40):
say body, but also the physical body.
And that leads to a good, a better mentalstate and physical state, spiritual state.
So there's several different I wouldsay benefit of it in the whole person.
Not only the physical person, but inthe spiritual component of each one.
(05:05):
So that's what I would say the spirit,this approach, the spirit, this
explanation of passages we usuallyrelate because a lot of people, and
I think you guys have usually hearthis what is the difference between
passes and reiki or passes andjury or passes and healing hands.
(05:28):
So we usually explain that they areall approach similar approaches, and
they are now under, they belong to acategory of healing processes, healing
practices that are under the namebiofield therapy or energy medicine.
(05:52):
And.
And this is, accepted and there'sso many papers coming out now with
all these different practices.
However, with passes, because passes arenot well known here in the states, the
scientific papers the scientific datafor passes are coming from Brazil, from
(06:16):
physicians, British physicians in Brazil.
But in, anyways, they are verysimilar in the approach here.
So there are nonconventionalapproaches to therapy that include
contact and non-contact practices.
Flavio Zanetti (06:36):
Oh my goodness.
Dan Assisi (06:37):
That's so much.
Oh, we unpack right there.
Yeah, I was break.
Flavio Zanetti (06:42):
I wasn't break breaking apart.
Before we get to efficacy, maymaybe go back to basics, right?
Hashtag back to the basics.
Right?
Suzana Simoes (06:49):
Yeah, I have, I have just, just like before we even dive
too deep into anything, just somethingbefore even your basic there, let me
just ask this to sign into all of you.
What is the closest term in Englishto passes us, we know, understand, and
(07:11):
practice it in the spiritual center?
What would you guys say?
Dan Assisi (07:16):
That is a great idea, Susan.
I'll take a stab of it.
I think that for those who may beunfamiliar with passes, the closest
would be a couple of different terms.
We have the laying on of hands,right, which are familiar
within the Christian tradition.
We have reiki that Dr.
Doy just mentioned as well.
(07:36):
But I think that for me, the layingon of hands is the closest to the
Christian and traditional tradition.
Traditional tradition is that Isaid it, you heard it here, guys.
You heard it here first.
Flavio Zanetti (07:48):
Let's go back and edit that afterwards.
Suzana Simoes (07:49):
Yeah, I, I would agree.
I would agree with that.
And I think that that'simportant for us to say.
Yeah, I think that's an importantpoint to start because we take for
granted that people have a senseof what we are talking about.
Right.
And this is not an English term.
So start by, you know, putting a termthat people can relate more closely.
(08:13):
I think it's a good start.
Dan Assisi (08:14):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
And I think that's a great pointthat you're bringing Sue, because
the name passes comes from thepassing of hands over mm-hmm.
A person, right?
Right.
So if you were to walk into a spiritistgroup, this is something that we
generally do with spiritist groups.
Sometimes we do at homeswith our families too.
It's this laying on of handswhere in the spiritist groups,
(08:37):
we're not touching people.
There's no contact there generally.
And we are basically sendingthose good energies that Dr.
Sonya Doy talked about.
And I'm gonna call her Sonya.
Is that okay, Sonya?
That, that's, otherwise I'm gonna be Dr.
Do Dr.
Sonia Doy please.
Let's
Sonia Doi (08:53):
here, please call me Sonya.
I'm sorry,
Dan Assisi (08:58):
go ahead now.
Go ahead.
I cut you off.
Sonia Doi (09:01):
Yeah I completely agree with that.
And here in these states, uh, there'sa practice of called Therapeutic Touch
that is used by many nurses in differenthospitals, and they are not particularly
related to any religion, although theymight be calling it spiritual, but they
(09:27):
are more like practices of compassionand love and peace and intent of healing.
So they're known as healing practicesand several hospitals use that as
healing hands or therapeutic search.
And so this is well known.
(09:49):
And as you mentioned here, Reiki isalso among all the other, is a little
different, but is also a, another practicethat belongs to the energy medicine.
Dan Assisi (10:03):
Great point.
So when you hear, when I was gonnasay really quickly I'm just gonna
talk over a flag cuz that's what I do.
I think that, you know, from now on,whenever you hear the word passes
here, you know that we're talkingabout this laying on of hands.
Mm-hmm.
That we just basically translated intothe passes you know, a passing of hand.
(10:25):
They become passes and you mighthear some Brazilian is called Pai.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Which is the Brazilian term, but it'sbasically the passes the passing of
hands over, which is actually a traditionthat on the western world goes back to
Maser too, and magnetism and so forth.
And even before, we're gonna park thataside and we're gonna bring it to Flavi
because I have also interrupted him.
(10:46):
Flavio.
It's okay.
Welcome
Flavio Zanetti (10:49):
to the club.
I was gonna ask us to,
Dan Assisi (10:52):
I was say, just kidding, just kidding.
Differences
Flavio Zanetti (10:57):
between, as we
Jesus started 2000 years,
Dan Assisi (11:07):
ah, you know, that could be a whole different program.
But I love that.
But it's, I think thatwe go for simplicity.
What do you think, Sue?
I think that's, they'renot very un, un unrelated.
Suzana Simoes (11:20):
No.
And in fact, I think that we draw a.
You know, our practices andJesus is our primary reference.
So when we think about a number oftopics we go back to the way that
Jesus did and how he practiced.
(11:40):
Because he used the greatestof all doctors, the highest of
all therapists and the master.
So he is for us this higher reference.
And so he did that.
He taught us by precisely laying onhis hands over the sick and healing.
(12:02):
And we can get, a little deeperhere and say, getting into issues
like, did he need to do that or not?
But I don't think it's the pointof today, but he's our reference.
And so we.
We understand that we are all energyand that love is, can be moved, can
(12:23):
be transmitted in the form of energy.
And so the same way he did, we seek todo the same with our humble contribution.
But I think that's as I said,it's the reference, it's the
starting point for all of us
Dan Assisi (12:41):
and that's great and starting point.
Yeah, I think it's agreat perspective, Sue.
And I think that is the way I wouldframe this up too, like the end too
is the way we use that in Spiritismis to help us rebalance and heal.
Right.
So it's not uncommon for youif you go to a spiritist group
to have a talk, an activity.
And some of our activities will have amoment of passes at the end where folks
(13:08):
will be invited to either stand, youknow, stay in the chair if they want to
receive the passes, or maybe they will betaken to a passes chamber, like a little
room, which quieter for reflection too.
And we're gonna have somebody,some volunteers come and do this
laying on our hands for themwhile they pray and they reflect.
And the idea is that itwill help us heal, right?
Will help us heal emotionally,physically intellectually,
(13:31):
whatever way you wanna call it.
And we find that it's a constantpractice in our spirits groups.
And the reason why is for the reasonsthat Susanna and Flavia just brought
to us, which is he hearkens backto the beginnings of Christianity
and this idea of healing, right?
But what I think is really great if youguys are ready, is that there's actually.
(13:51):
Some physical, a, there's a physicalaspect to it that can be validated or
thought of that, you know, which isreally fascinating for those of us who
want to obviously focus on the morals,but can also gain some understanding
and some value from understanding thephysics and the medicinal part of it.
Sonia Doi (14:13):
I think I can say something here what, uh,
Susanna brought is very true.
We, you know, Jesus is our model.
He used that in healing and Butwe have now learned even more.
We are not just doing that basedon our faith, but we are doing that
(14:34):
because we have learned about it.
We have learned aboutthe science behind it.
You know, k alreadytalked about the energy.
And when we learned about the prayerspirit and, and the energy that
we all have in in, in every bit ofthe inner the, all the layers of
(15:03):
the peri spirit, the energy thatcirculates through it, and that can
be transmitted through our thoughts.
Remembering that our thoughts is the basefor all this, that focus, that channels
all this energy towards something.
(15:25):
And in this case, if we focus ourthoughts, directing our energy
into healing, into someone's that,that, uh, it, it's what basically
is transmitted through passes.
We also know that in the spiritpasses, we are conveying, we are
(15:49):
channeling our own magnetic energy.
But we are actually the conveying lythe energy from the higher spirits
that are channeled through us withwith our magnetic energy towards
the person who is receiving passes.
(16:10):
In, I, I just wanna bring this in, in themediums book, when Ette talks about the
healing mediums, he mentions that it's notnecessary that a person is a spiritist or
even knows about the spirits, but if theperson has a good intention of doing good
(16:33):
for someone else, this person is alwayshelped assisted by benefactor spirits.
So, This empowers the magneticenergy of that person.
So this is to say we are not betterthan Reiki or Healing Hands or any
(16:54):
other thing because if the person hasa good intention, they are doing good.
Anyways I also want to relatea little bit to the biofield.
If you, if I can go into thatnow or if you have any other
comments before I go into that.
Dan Assisi (17:12):
Yeah, I think we would love to do, cuz you know what the
question that is in my mind is howdo you, how do we know that there
is an effectiveness there, right?
So I think that from a faith perspectivewe grasp it, but you have talked about
the actual measurable or more generallyaccepted impact of healing in general
as it becomes more mainstream, right?
(17:32):
As we open ourselves.
So how do, how do we know howthat works and how does it work?
Suzana Simoes (17:37):
And let me just ask, um, add another question on top of Daniels
and, and after you share that also tellus how is it being used in hospitals
if it, if it has, and if that is partof the research that's being done.
Sonia Doi (17:52):
In some hospitals, they allow people to do reiki mm-hmm.
Because Reiki is more, uh, well known.
As I mentioned, therapeutic touch iswell used in several hospitals here
in, in, in the DC DC area that I know.
But among the other practices I knowthat reiki has been used in several
(18:14):
hospitals and it's kinda allowed in as apractice, as a non-conventional practice.
Did I answer that, Sue?
Suzana Simoes (18:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
And sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
You're going to the biofield?
Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi (18:32):
Yeah, no, the biofield.
I just wanna mention that in 1932a doctor from the Yale University
called Harold Saxton or did someexperiments, some studies and show
that every living being has an kindof field of energy around them.
(18:56):
Being that plant, ananimal or human being.
So just to start with that and that kindof field of energy that, that he showed,
he has shown since you know, his firststudies have been for some time forgotten
by your physicians and researchers.
(19:18):
But now with more recentstudies, it has surfaced again.
And that's how we interact.
Our bio viewed energy interactswith someone else's by afu energy.
And that's how with our intention, we can.
Actually transfer the energythrough our thoughts, through our
(19:43):
intention to the person that is beingreceiving passes or receiving the bio
therapy, whatever that therapy is.
So we have some data that was publishedby the Brazilian doctors, and I think
it's interesting that I would liketo show maybe three slides just to,
(20:08):
to make the connection on the, makethe explanation a little easier.
One of the papers, one of the studieswas done by By a group of physicians
in Brazil with newborn babies.
These newborn babies were inthe I C U or in the hospital.
They were preterm newborns, sothat's why they were in a hospital.
(20:31):
And of course, thesebabies were under stress.
And these group of um, researchersdivided the babies into two groups.
There were only about 13, uh, babiesin each group, and one group was
assisted by spiritist, uh, peoplewho were trained in spirited centers.
(20:56):
So they knew how to apply passes.
The other group was assisted by peoplewho were not com, were not trained, uh,
didn't know about passes in any otherof these healing therapies, however,
they were instructed to have to bethere with their hands on the babies.
(21:18):
15 centimeters above distant fromthe babies with good intention.
Or healing intention.
So both groups had healing intention,but one group was people who were
trained in this practice centersat least two years of training.
And they, they did some measurements.
(21:39):
The group, both groups of babiesreceived this energy for 10 minutes
each time during three consecutive days.
And the researchers measured severalthings, measured salivary cortisol,
which is the hormone stress hormone.
They measure the heart rate, respiratoryfrequency oxygen saturation, and the
(22:05):
duration of stay in the hospital.
And all the measurements show animprovement in the group that was
assisted by Spirit Passagers comparedto the group that were assisted
by non practitioners of spiritism.
(22:27):
But the one measurement that wassignificantly, statistically significant
different was the respiratory rate.
So in the graph, the group that wasnot was shown in blue in this graph
that was received just intention.
But there were the control, consideredthe control group, meaning there were
(22:50):
no No spiritists versus the one thatwere spiritists in, shown in red here.
So we see a significant decreasein the respiratory rate.
So as you know, respiratory rateincreases when we are stressed out, right?
Stress, we breathe more frequently.
(23:11):
The frequency increases and yousee the group of babies that were
received passes, spirits passeshad lower and lower and lower.
Respiratory rate.
So that kind of implied a decreasein stress of these babies.
Dan Assisi (23:31):
Mm-hmm.
Fascinating soya.
So let's just make sure I got this right.
So basically this research was donewith a group of babies in a hospital
that we're in a delicate situation ish.
Right.
Or more delicate I should say.
And it, they were dividedinto three different groups.
Two babies who?
Two.
Two, okay.
Got it.
So there, there was not one thatdid not receive any treatment
Sonia Doi (23:52):
at all.
Right.
I was going to talkabout this in a minute.
Yeah.
Dan Assisi (23:55):
Mm-hmm.
So, sorry.
So go ahead cuz I, Itotally run you over there.
Sonia Doi (24:00):
No, no, no.
I think it's good that you broughtjust what I was going to say now.
Mm-hmm.
One criticism of this, uh, this workis that there was no, a third group,
the third group should be babies whohad not received any treatment at all.
Dan Assisi (24:15):
Gotcha.
Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi (24:16):
So here we had one with Spiritist passes, one with just
intention with no spiritist, uh, passes.
But we didn't have a group thatdidn't receive any treatment at all.
Dan Assisi (24:29):
But yet, yet, there was statistical significance.
Right.
And that means that the Ians runsome sort of formula and tell you,
yeah, these changes are not random.
They are significant
Sonia Doi (24:42):
exactly for respiratory rate.
Mm-hmm.
The other ones, there was a trendto decrease in heart rate, tend to
decrease in cortisone levels andsaturation and duration in the hospital.
So they, they were released earlier,however, by statistic methods they
(25:03):
were not significant, meaning thedifference was not that great.
Mm-hmm.
And a comment that I had here isthat the group that did not receive
spirit test passes had peoplewho were, had good intentions.
They were vibratinghealing for these patients.
(25:25):
Mm-hmm.
So apparently, you know, the spiritistpasses because maybe because they were
more concentrated or any other reasonthere was a little better results.
But this work, although thereis a criticism on the missing
(25:45):
of a real control group and theother thing, they're very small.
Uh, the number of patients is very small.
It's only 13.
So this for.
For a trial, clinical trial, this isan extremely small number of patients.
So it is actually no wonder we, we didnot achieve statistical significance.
(26:09):
We usually, we need a lotmore much higher number.
But anyways, one I'll say downside isthat the lack of a real control group.
But on the other hand, this is a goodstudy because these were premature babies.
They had no conscience of what's going on.
(26:33):
So you take away the bias of, okay, Iam, you know, conscious consciously.
Because I know that I'm receivingpasses my mind is influencing
the results, the placebo.
So I think that decreasesthe bias of that Yeah.
(26:53):
The placebo effect.
Flavio Zanetti (26:58):
Fascinating.
Yeah.
That, that's fascinating cuz it really, itreally showcases the efficacy of passes.
Exactly.
Although in a small, you know, samplingrate, sampling, you know, numbers really,
you know, again it's, it's everywhere.
When we look at efficacy, thisis a great study, at least you
know, the way I look at it.
Right?
Dan Assisi (27:17):
Yeah.
And I like that we are looking at it too.
And obviously there's waymore research to be done.
And the question also, Comes up arepeople willing to do this research?
Right?
Because sometimes it's hard to fundresearch and will the credibility of the
researcher take a hit because it's tryingto measure things that are spiritual.
(27:37):
All these things come into play,but I just love that we are
beginning to really dive deeperand try to prove scientifically
whether it has an impact or not.
And if it doesn't have an impact,scientifically, we've gotta own up
and say, all right, maybe it's justa placebo effect psychologically
that makes us feel better.
But it looks like if I'm reading thisright, Sonya, that we are beginning
(27:59):
to see that there is actual evidencethat's pointing us to the fact that
there is a physical improvement.
On those who receive passes.
Sonia Doi (28:08):
Exactly.
As you mentioned thisstudy is a small study.
It needs, you would need a, a.
Real control group, but as you alsomentioned, it's very difficult to be to
have funding for this type of research.
And it's also very difficultthat a hospital would allow you
to do this type of research.
(28:30):
Yeah, we need more studies.
Uh, it's interesting that here in theStates, if you look at the medical
literature, you find a lot morestudies that have done, have been
done with reiki, for example, because.
People know Reiki better, and becauseReiki has been used in hospitals already,
(28:52):
so there it's a little easier to do that.
So we are still trying to bringmore awareness about Spiritism
and Spiritist passes to say, okay,here's the analogy, and it's similar.
So why we cannot domore studies with faces.
Mm-hmm.
Dan Assisi (29:12):
So, so
Flavio Zanetti (29:13):
Sonia, I wanted to maybe if I'm, uh, if I'm seeing this for the
first time, right back to research why,what is so special about spirits passages?
Because if the other group were also wasalso, showing or their best, efforts,
their best intentions, but the groupthat had training had better results.
What makes, you know,what's the difference in.
Sonia Doi (29:39):
I cannot actually answer that.
With certainty I can onlymake assumptions here.
And one assumption, because of course,this, to answer that we should do
some kind of measurable researchto answer that, but my thoughts
are I have two thoughts about it.
(29:59):
One is that People who were trained asa spiritists they're used to do this.
They are focused, they pray, and they,they prepare themselves before they have
a good connection with the spirit world.
And maybe that has helpedin, in, in the mm-hmm.
(30:22):
Result in the final result.
The other thing is that maybe thegroup that were only working with
intention was not so focused, you know,I have intention, but yeah, they were
thinking about something else and.
We know that in Spiritismwhen we do that, we are really
(30:45):
focused on what we are doing.
We are connected, we arepraying and so forth, so on.
Another thing that I have, um, to sayabout that is that they used 10 minutes
for the practice in the spirit centers.
We don't do 10 minutes.
We usually, you know, it's one to twominutes, so 10 minutes is a lot longer.
(31:09):
So I wonder if the person who were not.
Spirit practitioners they, youknow, kind of their thoughts
wondered about on other things
Dan Assisi (31:22):
during, or even if there were, even if there
were spiritist practitioners.
I was gonna say that, yeah.
Right.
To hold that intention for 10minutes, like a pure intention.
And it's really, really,
Suzana Simoes (31:33):
really hard.
Really hard.
Yeah.
I have, I have a joke sometimes at thecenter say, people don't make these long
prayers cause you're gonna lose half ofthe audience in the middle of the way.
Cause we have a difficulttime staying, you know, put
without thoughts for a minute.
Dan Assisi (31:51):
Can we?
Yeah.
Can we characters, can we
Flavio Zanetti (32:03):
person to or whoever.
Wants to become a pass giver.
So if I enter a, a spirit center, hey,why, what are the credentials of the
individual that's giving me passes?
Dan Assisi (32:13):
Oh, I love that flag.
That's a great point.
Yeah.
So what's the credential, right?
Do you have to go to credentialingschools and get the credential?
A credential, pass giver?
No.
I think that not in ourpractice, everybody can do it.
That's the beautiful thing too.
Like, and we've sort of seen this alsowith mothers, for instance, right?
Where they, their kids get hurtsometimes they just kiss their kid,
(32:37):
they put their hand, they even justblow over their booboos, right?
And there's just different ways ordifferent modalities of doing that
intentional transfusion of energythat, that Sonya talked about.
But in the Spiritist group, some groupswill have a sort of preparation approach.
And I think I see Susanna sortof agreeing with me there, right?
(32:57):
Sue?
I.
Suzana Simoes (32:59):
Yeah, I was I was agreeing with your previous thought
as well, which I was going to say.
Um, what you're talking aboutwith the mothers takes us to a
different angle, which is passesoutside of the spiritual center.
Which, I think here we, we seek to talkabout, spiritual things, but always bring
(33:20):
to, what does that mean on a day-to-day?
Maybe not everybody can maketo the spiritual center.
Right?
So, so that means I cannot receive it.
So that's where my mind went.
Yeah, with with a mother, with a hug,with a friend, any, an intentional
transfusion of energy, the difference isthat when you are at the spiritual center,
(33:43):
right, so we have a, the environment,which is an environment of prayer.
Of people enter and usually theyinvited to elevate their vibratory
frequency by listening to uh, upliftingtalk, invited to, to do their prayers,
(34:04):
to connect with the higher source.
So we really creates avibratory environment that
is very beneficial in itself.
And when the person is in that environmentand open himself with trust, with
surrender, the person also createsoptimal circumstances to receive.
(34:26):
So that is another aspect there isthe aspect of the past operation
Flavio Zanetti (34:32):
to do its operation
Suzana Simoes (34:33):
to receive, yeah.
Right.
That needs to, you know, it'shelpful if you have an understanding.
I mean, Sonia, um, early onwas talking about pure spirit,
for example, which is the.
Spiritual body.
The energetic body.
So if you have a minimal understandingabout it's helpful if you have an
(34:56):
understanding that we can't, like wehave mentioned here, manipulate the
fluids or the energy with the powerof our thoughts, that's also helpful.
So there are some basic concepts that oncewe know them, we can become more effective
(35:18):
practitioners, just like anything else.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And same thing for theperson who is receiving.
If you want the sun to enter your house,you have to open the windows the curtains.
So that's an analogy that I liketo always use if you sit there, but
(35:41):
your mind is caught up in distrust.
Suspicion or whatever that might be,or elsewhere, nowhere to be found.
Your body's there, butyour, your mind isn't.
Then similarly, You are notreally putting yourself in that
(36:03):
ideal position to, to receive.
Dan Assisi (36:07):
Yeah, and that's a great point too, Sue, because at the Spiritist
group to go back to the, to that piece,like can anyone just walk in and do it?
Generally what Spiritist groups willhave, they will have their own training
program, right, where they will helppeople prepare to do their best in
obviously giving of themselves in the,in those moments, and will ask for people
(36:30):
to make a commitment that in that day,in that moment those will sometimes
call passes or past givers are going tocommit to make sure that they, have done
a good job of concentrating, of having agreat day so that they don't go in there.
With all their worries and notbeing able to be a good channel
from those energies from above.
(36:50):
Right?
So absolutely free too.
I think we should mention this too, right?
Yeah.
All of these practices alwaysfree at spirit as groups too.
If you are looking to receive passesor I think that they could help you
establish yourself a little bit.
In general, it's always a good idea togo to a spiritist group and generally
the passes are done after a talk or aninspiring moment because it helps you
(37:15):
concentrate in getting to the vibratoryrange that Susanna was talking about.
So that's why passes are generallydone at the end of activities because
by then the past receiver has alreadybegan to open him or herself to those
good messages, uc influences, whichmeans it's more likely that the effect
(37:35):
of the passes are going to take hold.
Right.
So fantastic.
So, Sonya, are there other pieces ofresearch or efforts out there that
Suzana Simoes (37:47):
Yeah.
Was curious about?
I was curious about that.
I love, I love hearing about the firstone, so it's like, is there another one?
Sonia Doi (37:55):
Yeah, there's a actually this group that, that did the work with babies
did, I think they published another.
Two, three papers, but I onlybrought one more from them.
And then another onethat is interesting too.
So the next one is they looked atpeople who were hospitalized for
(38:16):
in a cardiac cardiovascular ward.
And they actually selected patientsthat had depression anxiety.
And they did there were 41 patients,they divided in three groups.
Now they have one group which is acontrol didn't receive any therapy at all.
(38:37):
One group that were assisted by spirittrainees and trained people, and
the other one with just intention.
Again, here, there was a group thatWere not trained in spirit passes,
but they were there with their handson for 10 minutes, three days, and
(39:00):
with intention, healing intention.
So in this group, they alsomeasured several things.
They measure depression, muscletension, wellbeing, and like heart rate,
pain intensity and so forth, so on.
And again, there was somedifferences in both groups.
(39:23):
Both groups had improvements, bothmeaning the spiritist passes and
the other that were not spiritist,but received some healing intention.
Both groups had.
Improvement in all the things thatwere measured against the group
that didn't receive anything,that the real control group.
(39:47):
However, the the most strikingdifference, the most significant
difference was in anxiety and depression.
This is measured by somekind of score scoring system.
So there, there is a systematicscoring system that is acceptable
for publications and studies.
(40:08):
So they used a specific scoringsystem to measure anxiety and to
measure depression prior to andafter three days of of treatment.
And the.
When they measure anxiety, whenthey measure depression, these
(40:29):
scores were basically the samebefore and after the procedure,
after the three days of treatment.
There was no difference whatsoeverin the group that received the
spirit test passes, which in thisslide, uh, has a red mark around.
Yeah.
We see a marked difference.
(40:52):
So for example the score was 9.6.
Prior to the passes and afterthe, after three days of passes,
it dropped to 3.7, so it was abig drop in the score of anxiety.
The group that were received only the, thetreatment with intention but was not split
(41:16):
as passes, also didn't have any change.
It was like the control group.
It started with 7.9 andended af after three days.
The score was still 7.9 inthe measurement of depression.
The control group without treatmentdidn't have any change comparing
(41:37):
previous treatment, and after threedays of treatment, it was 7.8 7.9.
The group that received only intentionaltreatment, no passes, also didn't have
change after three days of treatment.
Started with 6.8 and went to 6.3.
(41:57):
Mm-hmm.
However, the group that received SP testpasses, it started with a score of six
on depression rate and dropped to 4.2.
So the highest drop, the highesteffect was an anxiety, which dropped
from nine to 3.7, but both anxiety anddepression was improved significantly.
(42:26):
So this is, this is also another,you know, beautiful work on how this.
How we can see the effectof the spirit passes.
And although there was intentionin the other group, for some
reason here, we didn't see any,
(42:48):
any improvement changes.
Flavio Zanetti (42:50):
Now.
Now let me ask a curveball question.
We're in this world thateverything is hybrid.
We're, we're gathering herethrough, through technology.
Can I like, do passes viazoom or via a virtual meeting?
Is it even possible to have passes remote?
Suzana Simoes (43:05):
What do you guys think?
It's
Sonia Doi (43:06):
a great question, FLA.
Great question.
You know why?
Because we know that wecan do distant healing.
We can do that.
We can pray for someonethat's far from here.
And, at some point this was only donein Berkeley and people saying, yeah,
(43:30):
you know, I got better or something.
But there's a group in Portugal,uh, actually they were not
even in, in medical sciences.
They are in engineering school, andthey designed a work and I, I don't
have much time to talk about that today,but it's a great, interesting work.
(43:53):
They had people who were trained inreiki and people who were trained in
therapeutic touch, uh, in different partsof the world, in Portugal, in Switzerland,
in I forgot different countries.
So what they do, they put.
Water about two bottles ofwater in their laboratory.
(44:17):
In Portugal.
Portugal in the School of Engineering.
They took a picture of that.
I'm Synthes, you know, summarizing that.
It's a little more complex.
But they took a picture of that, sentthrough email to all these practitioners
and asked, in this day and this day, youare going to be doing a healing intention.
(44:39):
You're gonna be praying sending healingthoughts to this bottle of water labeled
A, for example, not to the bottlelabel B, just to the bottle label A
and you do this for 10 minutes or so.
So they had people all overthe world right doing this.
(45:02):
Nobody was local.
Then the water was testedfor several thanks for.
Chemical properties forthe physical properties.
And they also had an instrument thatI don't recall now the name, but they
had an instrument at that place in theroom to measure, uh, to measure energy.
(45:31):
Okay.
So it was incredible.
I can send you then the, the link to this.
Mm-hmm.
It this work, but Sure.
Can you
Suzana Simoes (45:41):
share?
Yeah.
Afterwards,
Sonia Doi (45:43):
it was very interesting because they showed that not only there
were improvement on or changes in thephysical and physical chemistry of
the molecules of water in the bottlethat people were direct to send their
thoughts to the other bottle was closedto it, but was not the one that people
(46:11):
should direct their, their thoughts to.
There were some changes there because itwas close to it, but not as much as on the
bottle that they were asked to pray for.
The other interesting thing isthat, The level of energy increased
(46:31):
dramatically from the first day whenthey started praying four up to the
third day and persisted for 15 days.
It was dropping gradually and, butthe level of energy, that residual
energy was there for about 15days, which for me was amazing.
(46:55):
And I'm thinking, yes, imagineour spirit centers where we
are praying every so often.
How much energy is accumulating thereand is maintained and remains there.
So this work not only shows theeffect distance, but also the level
(47:18):
of energy that persists after a while.
Dan Assisi (47:21):
And that's easy to relate to from a popular perspective
because it's about the atmosphereor shall we say the vibe, right?
Mm-hmm.
So we're talking aboutgood vibes here, right?
So when you go into an environment thathas that healthy mental attitude, in
this case spiritual attitude, sometimespeople can feel the vibe, right?
(47:43):
You can feel that, that that's a differentenvironment, that it feels good, it
feels relaxing, and it's lovely to seethe validation to that coming through
science and making us understand that.
So it's lovely to see that theseenergies can travel far distances
cuz they're so subtle, right?
Absolutely.
And it's fascinating, fascinating.
Sonia Doi (48:02):
If you, if you're interested enough, there is
one more work, scientific work
Dan Assisi (48:08):
now with
Suzana Simoes (48:09):
bacteria.
Sonia Doi (48:10):
That's great.
You know, we are, we're talkingabout the effects on people, but
look at this, this is bacteria.
Dan Assisi (48:18):
Bacteria are future people too, people.
Flavio Zanetti (48:20):
Talk bacteria.
Suzana Simoes (48:22):
That's funny.
Sonia Doi (48:24):
They don't have a brain.
But anyways, this was a, a,an incredible work of Dr.
Jean Carlo Lu in Brazil.
He's one of the most spiritsscientists that publishes in the world.
And this is a very interesting,but I'm going to just summarize.
So what he did, he did bacteria cultureand he divided in actually several groups.
(48:51):
But let's talk about three main groups.
One with people who were trainedin passes, spirit passes.
One that only had intention but ofhealing, but were not Spirit pass trained.
And the other wave, nointention whatsoever.
(49:11):
So he had that.
And also he then divided these groupsinto different levels of intention.
Completely unin all eachone of these groups.
Unintentional, intentional,inhibiting bacteria growth, promoting
bacteria growth and negative effect.
(49:34):
For, there were people in the laboratorywith the sculptors of bacteria, the ones
that were not to have any intention.
They were with a headphoneand a video in front of them.
So the bacteria is here, but they weresupposed to be watching the video,
so by watching a video, they were notkind of thinking about the bacteria.
(49:59):
They had their hands there, butthey were watching a video, the
other one with negative effects.
They were watching a veryviolent type of video.
So to kind of bring a negativeenergy over the bacteria and.
Anyway, so with all of this differentgroups, the most significant effect
(50:26):
was the effect of spirit passeson the bacteria culture that had
intention to inhibit bacteria growth.
So those were the onesthat were most affected.
When he asked all these three groupsthe with passes, with intention, non
(50:48):
intention to inhibit bacteria growth.
The group that had most effecton inhibiting bacteri arterial
growth is the, was the groups ofpeople who practice British passes.
In this graph, under, in the redrectangle, you see the dark bars.
(51:10):
And this was in.
Two days, uh, in, I don't remember somehours and then two weeks of treatment.
But anyways, the question is they werenot able to increase bacteria growth.
And why is this?
(51:31):
In the paper, there isa discussion about it.
The authors already talking about it,and they said it's very difficult for,
if you consciously think about bacteria,you think about bacteria being something
damaging and you don't want it to grow.
So how could you have agood intention to and, and.
(51:59):
Kind of vibrate for the increase ofbacteria growth, usually because we
see bacteria as a damaging effect.
We want bacteria to not to grow.
We want to inhibit bacteria growth.
We want to combat the bacteriaand not to increase growth.
(52:21):
So I think that's what was the,that's why the effect was better seen,
better noted, and more significantin decreasing the bacteria growth.
But this was interesting because itwas bacteria, not people we see the
Suzana Simoes (52:42):
effect.
Dan Assisi (52:45):
Fascinating.
Fascinating.
So I love that there is a, abreadth of different things coming.
So we, there have been studies withbabies with bacteria with people.
And I think that they're beginning topoint to something that we intuitively
and maybe religiously or spirituallyhave believed in, that our thoughts have
(53:07):
power and that it can be even augmentedwhen we're connected to the divine.
Right.
So it's reassuring to see thatwe're finding a way there.
And for us, spiritists that's reallyimportant because we have always put
extra effort in trying to understandthe physical world around us and how
it relates to the spiritual world.
Sort of like in the definition ofspiritism in a way, that Keck gave us.
(53:30):
And so to see that the, our spiritualselves, our, you know, the intelligence
principle that we are, can affect changevia our thoughts into our physical world.
Even though the energies arevery still very different, is
reassuring many different ways.
It's also.
A little bit of a tale oftwo perspectives, right?
Because it also begs the question, wow,if our intention can bring about positive
(53:57):
impact, what kind of intention and focusare we having during our day-to-day lives?
And what kind of interactions arewe having with people around us?
Of course, this also has theaugmentation of spirituality, right?
So passes.
It's not just our energy, as youwas said, it's also our request
from spiritual helpers to kindof augment that which we have.
(54:19):
But it does beg the question, doesn't it?
What are we doing to make surethat we're good practitioners of
transmitting good energies to people?
Suzana Simoes (54:29):
You just left in my mouth, a taste for like, I want some more.
You know?
Yes.
Like, yes, the craving.
This is amazing, amazing, uh, work.
Thank you for sharing with us.
It was very, uh, enlightening.
I have a number of people in mymind that I wanna send directly the
link and say, Hey, look at this.
(54:51):
It's very exciting news.
And again, I just can't waitto see what else is coming.
Dan Assisi (54:57):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And while we do that, let's do our wrapup as our time begins to run away from us.
Flavia, what's your biggesttakeaway from today?
Flavio Zanetti (55:07):
My biggest takeaway is that there's a lot of
benefits from receiving passes.
If you looking for that, go to yournewest spirit center and look for it.
There's definitely a lot ofbenefits from receiving passes.
I also took away that the there's someprerequisites for that person to become,
or for someone to become a best giver.
(55:29):
As we talked about, everycenter will be different, but
there are some re requisites.
For the person to do that.
And love, love, love is seeingSonya's, you know, breadth of
expertise and academic know-how.
Show us that science is catchingon while we as spirits have
learned, for many, many years.
So that's fantastic, right?
Those two worlds colliding, so to speak.
(55:51):
Love it.
Dan Assisi (55:54):
And Sue, what would you say stuck with you
the most during this episode?
Suzana Simoes (56:00):
Well, I, I kind of already said I'm, I mean, I, I love research.
So I'm kind of, I waslike, I needed more time.
I wanna go back.
I wanna look at it, Iwanna understand it better.
Um, so I'm left with some excitement,but also it's, um, something that for
(56:23):
people to consider a lot of times.
People wondering, what can I do?
How can I help?
And this is a way of helping othersthat actually not only helping others
by sharing a little bit of somethingthat we all have, which is energy
but it also is an exercise of faith.
(56:46):
And at the very end, we didn'thave a chance to talk about it.
But I did see a question about itis also as you give, you receive.
Mm-hmm.
Because you are never alone.
So you are being also a channelof some spiritual energy
that's coming through you.
(57:07):
So it's a double win.
You win because you arehelping someone else.
You win because you are helping yourself.
And at the very end is it'sjust a wonderful practice
that is available to everyone.
Dan Assisi (57:23):
And before we give Sonia a final words, I'm gonna jump in
and say a hundred percent to whatyou guys smart people just said.
And I think what's really cool toois that we haven't explicitly called
this one out, but to talk aboutpasses is to talk about prayer.
And so there is littledistinction in a way, right?
(57:43):
Because everything that we werethinking about and talking about
here today also applies to prayer.
And in a way you can almost saythat passes are an intentional,
intentionally directed type of prayer.
So it's also reassuring for us, Ithink to know that our prayers, our.
Effort to ask and act on behalfof others spiritually can also
(58:08):
be registered intentionally andscientifically and physically.
And I'm really thrilled too, like Zawas saying, that we are beginning to
from a physical perspective, from alike a material perspective, really
pay attention to this and try tounderstand what are those changes.
Because this is not an alternativeto traditional treatment, but it
(58:29):
could be a compliment to it, right?
I think that's something that wedidn't really talk much about this.
We're all, we're all, we're allup for medical treatment Yes.
To all that.
Cuz medicine also comesfrom God people, right?
We've got like evolutionof knowledge, right?
Including medicine.
And we need to respect and honor that.
But these are other practices that wecan augment, that we can layer upon
(58:51):
all the other things that we are doing.
And especially in this world ofchallenges right now with mental
health and a lot of depression.
This could be.
Interesting thing.
So I'm really grateful thatwe have this experience.
And so, maybe it's a goodtime to turn to Sonia.
Sonya, what is the most interestingpiece about all these studies and
things that you see and you learnabout and you talk to people about?
Sonia Doi (59:14):
First of all I love all your comments and I wanna thank you for
letting me participate in this talk.
But I have seen a lot of research comingmore recently, not only about passes,
but about the how we can benefit otherswith our thoughts, our intentions.
(59:36):
And and we want to, in the, as I representthe Spirit Medical Association, we
support research, and we want to see moreresearch in this field because of course,
you know, faith is important, faithis the base of it, but when it's like
(59:58):
spiritism, when we have the explanation,we can understand the defects behind it.
That makes our faith a lot strongerand it can make it more effective.
So I think that We are as thespirit, as medical association, our
(01:00:19):
mission is to educate the healthcareprofessionals and to support research
on the impact of the spirit or so inour, in physical and mental health.
I would like, I have seen moreand more, I'm very enthusiastic
about the research that is comingout, but we are really trying to
(01:00:42):
simulate people to do more research.
Flavio Zanetti (01:00:45):
So, Sonya, I, I can read some people's minds right now.
They might be listening tous later or watching us this
through our YouTube channel.
If they have questions, if theywanna connect with you or the medical
association, where do they go?
Sonia Doi (01:00:59):
The best is to go to our website, www dot sme.
Dot org.
That's it.
And that's correct.
We can send, there's a contact usbutton, so you can send us question.
We are having several events now.
(01:01:22):
Every month we have somethingonline and we have added
discussion on scientific papers.
So every other month we have ascientific discussion with a panel.
So you are invited and we are doingsome changes in our website that may
(01:01:42):
not be there yet, but will soon bethe whole schedule will be in the
website and everyone can join in.
Dan Assisi (01:01:50):
Fantastic.
And it's always wonderful.
Always a good, yeah.
Go ahead.
Su Susanna.
Sorry.
Suzana Simoes (01:01:54):
No, I just said wonderful.
Dan Assisi (01:01:57):
Thank you.
Yeah, I was gonna say that I lovethat US Spirit Medical Association
is also providing opportunitiesfor those of us who are not medical
doctors to be engaged as well.
So if you feel like you willknow more, go over there,
subscribe, check out their events.
I am a member as well, and I'mnot a medical doctor, but I love
hearing about the stuff and I'mreally excited about all the work.
(01:02:19):
So thank you Sonya.
Thank you for all that youguys are doing over there.
We really appreciate
Sonia Doi (01:02:23):
you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for the opportunityto be here, to talk a little
bit to learn with all of you.
Thank you.
Dan Assisi (01:02:32):
Yeah.
So we're coming to the end friends,and if you would like to know more
about Spiritist Conversations, wesuggest that you visit our website,
spiritist conversations.org.
We wanna remind you as well that youcan find past episodes on YouTube or
Facebook if you would like to watch it.
If you prefer to hear it like I do, youcan head over to your favorite podcast
(01:02:57):
platform and download our episodes.
We'll be sure to include somelinks to the research that Dr.
Sonya Doy shared with us today inour show notes as well, so that
you can find it for yourself.
But thank you very much.
Thank you for watching and forlistening to Spiritist Conversation, a
production of The Spiritist Institute.
We hope that you have enjoyedit, and if you did, please
(01:03:18):
share, tell somebody about it.
He helps us get the word out.
We hope to see you next time.
Thanks for being with us.
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