August 7, 2025 • 67 mins
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Thank you very much to Michael for commissioning this episode!
These chapters are the ones where Carl meets Madison, an NPC with the shitty attitude of middle management, and learns a little more about how the floor works. Then he runs into Frank Q and gets a present from him, which will be very interesting if it gets used in the future.
Thank you all so much for listening, and I will see you soon with a new episode!
Wanna talk spoilers? Join the Discord! https://discord.gg/rEF2KfZxfV
Thank you very much to Michael for commissioning this episode!
These chapters are the ones where Carl meets Madison, an NPC with the shitty attitude of middle management, and learns a little more about how the floor works. Then he runs into Frank Q and gets a present from him, which will be very interesting if it gets used in the future.
Thank you all so much for listening, and I will see you soon with a new episode!
Wanna talk spoilers? Join the Discord! https://discord.gg/rEF2KfZxfV
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is an Unspoiled Network podcast. This is spoil Me
covering Dungeon Crawler Carl Book three, The Dungeon Anarchists Cookbook,
chapters seventeen through nineteen. In these chapters, we get introduced
(00:24):
to a whole new concept, the player versus player card.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Coupon.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I should say, and this is a real insidious, little
sneaky wrinkle to throw into things, and I hate it.
Welcome to spoil Me, Welcome to the show everyone. I
(01:04):
am Natasha. Thank you very much to Michael for commissioning
this episode. So all right, I had said that I
was going to cover the end of this chapter, the
last chapter, during this recording, but honestly it winds up
not being that relevant to things like going forward. So
I feel okay with sort of bypassing that because it's
(01:26):
just sort of them, you know, figuring out exactly where
to go, Carl deciding to do station repair.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Because otherwise they just go into that.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Abyss and Brandy and Donut having their little chat about
her being a mom and having Mango and Kascious saying
I was about to adopt, but I let's see here
it is, I was about to adopt, but aliens destroyed
my planet. That's too bad, honey, Brandy said, sounding genuinely sincere.
(02:00):
So I feel okay with that, and let's just get
it rolling. So chapter seventeen. It's kind of funny actually,
because I read this section twice. I wasn't able to
get through the second read all the way through, but
it was sort of funny once I went back and
reread how much it felt like what happens in this
(02:24):
station winds up not really mattering yet. Maybe it will later,
but I was thinking this would be something I would
talk a lot more about. And then once we start
getting into some of the other reveals in these chapters,
this really falls by the wayside. So I'm going to
try and get through this part as quickly as I can.
(02:47):
They arrive at the repair yard and it's full of ghoules,
but they're not actually undead. They are suffering from withdrawal,
and so they are still like kind of able to
(03:08):
They're conscious to a point, and because they're not actually undead,
the kinds of magic you would use on actual gules
won't work on these guys. But there are enough of
them that it's causing a huge problem. And it turns
out as we find out later all of the repairs
(03:30):
they are going to be rerouting to a different place
because that place doesn't have this overrun. Now I feel
like this other repair yard might not exist. I can't
remember if it's specifically referenced or not, but like every
time somebody starts talking about how there's this other place
(03:52):
that we're gonna go and it's better there no matter
what it is, it turns out it's not real, doesn't exist,
it's not you know. So I kind of feel like,
in the end, I just reached a point where I'm thinking, yeah,
that's not really either. But they wind up here. It
is the festering Ghoule. They have two purposes, devour as
(04:17):
much organic matter as possible and find more of its kind.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
All they need is enough.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Of their kind to arrive before their purpose becomes clear,
which we don't know what that is, but of course
it's very bad. Then they see this one dude coming
toward them, and he is a goblin, but he's covered
in hair. He's not like whenever I think of a goblin,
(04:46):
I think of a creature that's pretty much hairless. And
he is a grease gremlin named Widget. I don't know
if you guys have seen the Basle of Baker Street,
what is the Great Mouse Detective?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
But there is a bat creature.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
In that little children's movie and his name is Fidget.
And honestly, it feels to me like this guy is
like kind of because Fidget has a really weird accent also,
and he is very goblin like, and I just and
(05:33):
he's not he's a likable bad guy. He's like one
of the bad guy's sidekicks. But he is just a
really fun little weirdo. And so he was on my
mind throughout this. I just kept picturing Fidget, which made
it all the sadder when eventually his head gets ripped
clean off his body because I had grown too rather
(05:56):
like him. He was sort of sweet in his weird way,
and yeah, I just I don't I didn't want what
happened to him to happen to him. He was trying
to help our friends, you know. So yeah, very very sad.
But uh sorry, Michael says deep cut. I haven't thought
of that movie in forever, And yeah, that's one of
(06:18):
those ones that like a lot of people haven't seen,
but if you have, I feel like it has really
made an impression and you'll remember things.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And I actually watched it not that long ago.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
It was like a few years ago, but I found
out my husband had never seen it, and I was like, oh,
we got it because it's actually it holds up pretty well,
and yeah, going through it a second time, still still
a winner.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Radigan is a great villain and.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
There's just like a lot of excellent moments and I
recommend it if you haven't seen it.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I think kids would really enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And as an adult, it's sort of like fun to
see them riffing on Sherlock Holmes the way that they do.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's a fun little like you know.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So anyway, he thinks at first that they like work
for the trains, and then he realizes that they're crawlers
and he's like, what the hell did you fucking come here?
And Carl is like, well, we're trying to find stairwells,
and he says, why did you come all this way
for stairwells? Just take the Escape Velocity train. It goes
(07:25):
to all the stairwells, which I don't even remember hearing
about the Escape Velocity train. If that was like something
that was marked or what does he think it's marked?
I guess he must. And anyway, he's uh basically telling
them all like you came to the wrong fucking place,
(07:47):
and also nobody here likes crawlers, so you should just
get out, you know, Like all the trains in this
yard aren't even gonna be able to get out because
we're not going to be opening the gates again because
of the ghoul. So at this point, a ghoul comes
up on them and starts to cause some trouble, and
(08:09):
Donut hits it with a magic missile, and this causes
Widget to zero.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
In on her in the weirdest way.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
It's just look anything that's like coming on to a
fully cat creature when that thing itself feels sort of humanoid,
even though it's not humanoid.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's not human, but it's humanoid in its way.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
It just just gives me.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
The ick a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You know. I'm like having to remember he's no more
human than he is cat necessarily, Like I don't know
what all is in the mix with a goblin.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
But it was just a weird sensation.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And so he's like flirting with her and talking about
coming home with him so his wife can cook them
both some fish.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And I love her being.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Like, well, it really does depend on the quality of
fish that you will be serving, sir. But then when
she's like calls out the fact that he just said
he's married, he's like, my mom my wife won't care.
I think she'd like to get in on that action
a little bit herself. And I was just like, all right,
it's like that. So yeah, this whole thing is sort
of just a very odd moment. So Carl then is like, okay, well,
(09:36):
if they're not opening the gates, how the fuck did
we get out of here? And he's like, well, we'd
have to climb up if you have the ability to
do it. And he's looking at this chain. Let's see.
I reckon, I better open a hole in the ceiling
before you get overwhelmed. It'll take me a good He
didn't finish. In the distance, a mighty crash reverberated throughout
(09:59):
the train yard. A section of the colossal wall that
separated the yard from the conductor staging area collapsed in
a mighty heap. The crowd of ghoules surged out of
the enclosure, and which it's like, all right, now we
got to change up what we're gonna do. I'll unhook you.
I'll get into my tower, get on the turntable, and
(10:19):
I get you into the employing line. Go slow and
you'll see him. The distances are much shorter here. The
homeword bound is locked up tighter than an octoid's cunt,
so you'll have the track all to yourself. And let's see.
I'm gonna climb up the chain and get me into
the tower. And he's like giving them this whole plan.
(10:40):
And just as Carl is like, sounds great, he's like,
all right, awesome, and he turns and he waves as
he's about to leave, and the ghoul that Donut killed
comes back to life and rips his head off. And
I was honestly like, oh, wadge it. So now we
(11:01):
have to figure out how we're gonna get the fuck
out of here, and don't it decides Carl, you're the
one who can drive the train.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I can't let you climb that.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I'll go up, and she says, Manga will be ready
to graduate college by the time you get up there.
I can puddle jump if I have to, but I'd
rather save it for coming back. So she climbs up,
and she is able to do the thing and let's
(11:30):
see this time the rails matched up. I pulled the brake,
knocked on the window to let Brandy know we were moving,
and I eased the train forward. We had almost a
dozen gules climbing the exterior. If they got near the window,
Katchias speared them with her hand. They stumbled as the
train lurched, a few fell off. So they begin to
pull out. And this was so funny. See if there's
(11:52):
a control up there that will open the gate, I
already opened it by accident, and more ghouls started walking out.
I didn't tell you because I thought you.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Might get mad. Ah, that was funny.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So she puddle jumps back onto the train. And as
they are heading out here, the ghules are climbing. They're
on the cow catcher. It's a whole thing. And then
all of a sudden he sees this. Uh like there's
a bunch of different employees around who are being killed
(12:25):
by these things. Dozens of dead dwarfs and grapples lay
on the ground where they've been congregating. As I watched,
a dwarf and a pair of porters materialized, popping right
out of the brick wall. They looked dazed, A moment later,
they were set upon by ghules, which just the fact
that they're being put through what they're being put through,
and the ghules are right there, like all of this
(12:47):
is just so unfair. They don't stand a single chance
and it really sucks. And then Carl spots a human
and Katscha is like, dude, don't stop for her. Do
you see her? And he's like, look at her description. Now, guys,
I just want to mention something. I want to take
(13:10):
note of this moment, and I'm going to bring it
up a little bit later, all right. I just want
to take note of this moment that he has to
tell her check out her description. Okay, just mentioning that here,
and then we'll come back to this. So her name
isn't really Madison, but she changed it after she got divorced.
(13:33):
After multiple rounds of breast augmentation, pilates and labia plasty,
Madison has emerged as a new woman labia plasty. Look,
maybe there are times where this is like necessary for
quality of life, but for the most part, the whole
concept of it, I really detest. She relishes the power
(13:54):
she has of over other Iron Tangle employees. She feels
an almost second actual surge of gratification when she tells
those dwarves that overtime is mandatory and they stop for her,
and of course, almost immediately after being like thank you,
is like, but you're not employees?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
What are you doing in here? This lady?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
It's a really wild ride what's going on with her?
Because clearly the whole thing is very like, I don't
realize that I am just as disposable as everybody else.
And you run into this sort of person not infrequently.
(14:39):
It's just a like the idea that they have their
own little bit of power and so they think this
means that they matter. It's kind of remarkable how many
people fall into that trap. And it's a combination of things.
(15:02):
It's people who enjoy power and like to bully, but
I also think there's like an element of people who
don't really have much of an identity, and so they
get a job that they can then kind of really
pour everything into and make their whole life about that job.
(15:22):
And it's very sad in a way that that's like
maybe all they've got. But we also do encourage people
to be so like career driven in our culture that
to a degree it's like, can you blame somebody for
falling into that trap when we really make it seem
(15:42):
like what someone does for their living is their whole identity.
Like that's how we will describe people. It's just like, oh,
he's a mechanic, you know, like just whatever it is
they do is their thing. And granted, maybe if that's
the context you know somebody in, but like we assign
a lot of value to that, and so for another
person to take that on as their whole thing isn't.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Really that surprising.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
It's just the way that she is willing to sacrifice
the people around her and doesn't see that she might
be just as likely to be targeted that you just
want to shake her, you know. It's just it's bonkers
that she doesn't see it. And I feel this way
(16:26):
so often about so many people that you like, this
is just the epitome of the sort of person who
would vote for Donald Trump, where they really think that
because they're not one of those people, which means any
marginalized group of any kind, they think that they're part
of Donald's crew. And it's like he would literally not piss.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
On you if you are on fire.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
You are the kind of person that he is laughing
at because you're falling for his shit like a chomp,
and you just don't think that you're part of the
group that he is exploiting and doesn't give a shit about.
So it's just this sort of mindset that is really like,
you know, it's very real, and it's also a huge
(17:19):
symptom of people who are like really upper middle class.
They're not necessarily wealthy, but they have enough disposable income
that they can do some things that can trick you
into thinking that their upper class if you don't know better,
and they desperately want to be and believe they will
(17:40):
eventually be part of the ruling class. So they're totally
willing to sacrifice everyone else because they think that this
is just a stepping stone to getting to the point
where they can be in the in crowd. And it
is very much giving. Like fry On, Oh my god,
I can't rememer the name of the show, but he
(18:01):
says something about how like someday I'll be rich and
then people like me better watch out, and yeah, that's
the whole vibe. So let's see, I have an apartment
in the executive quarters outside of yard A and the
fact that it's called the executive Quarters is so funny,
(18:22):
Like this is just it's so beautiful. Honestly, if you
have like any understanding of the way certain things are marketed,
calling it executive quarters is do you give things these
arbitrary titles and make people feel like they have access
(18:43):
to something better and more exclusive, and nothing about it
has to be materially different. It's just called a different thing,
and they will fucking be so grateful to you for
this nonsense that you.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Just served up. It's very embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So he asks her, like, have you ever even been
to your apartment? And she's like, well, of course I have.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's just been a few days.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And Carl is starting to realize they've given people like
these backstories, but they're just super surface level, so once
you begin to ask them questions, they don't.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Understand why they can't remember.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And her she's attributing this because she was getting attacked
when they picked her up to getting like a concussion
from that wolf school. But interestingly, Carl is remembering something
that a person named Harrod had put in the cookbook
about how it's easier to break through the fourth wall
(19:52):
on NPCs because they are the weak link since they
are actually live and that. Yes, it can be a
little cruel, but it's necessary. You just have to keep
asking them and pushing them to answer, even when it
seems like they want you to leave it alone.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Just be firm.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
And then he says, you've been Either you've either been
to your apartment or you've never seen yard A.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
It can't be both. Which is it? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That goal must have given me a concussion. Look, I
have several questions. Answer them for me, and we'll take
you to station sixty. If somewhere there knows how to
get to yard A. From there, we'll take you. Okay,
what do you want to know? If it's about the trains,
I don't really know much. I'm in charge of telling
employees that overtime is mandatory. They come out to get
(20:49):
on the homeward bound and I tell them to get
back to work. Oh and I'm the benefits manager for
all the Kravat and the sixth station mimics, the what
Terminus station mimics. There's six of them, and boy do
they get cranky if we don't send enough passengers into them.
Those things are ravenous. We tell the workers to always
tell the customers to get off on four thirty three,
(21:10):
but you'd be surprised at how awful dwarfs are at
following instructions. And don't get me started on the mantors.
They can't keep their pause to themselves, which I don't
know if that's supposed to be like sexual assault or
what is she saying that they eat people like he
didn't seem like he would eat. This didn't seem like
his deal. I don't know what she's talking about there,
(21:34):
but yeah, so stations that are mimics terrifying, and so
he tries to warn Batista, but unfortunately Batista and a
group of four hundred people have already gotten off at
a mimic and a bunch of them were swallowed up.
And we are on the platform now fighting off its
(21:57):
tongue and its minions, It belches, and these walking mouth
things pour out of it. I mean, my god, what
a wild idea. I hope, but she used to makes it.
(22:17):
I like the guy, you know, so hopefully, and eventually
they start talking about the craviad, which I had thought
from the beginning. I was like, yeah, they're part.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Of the fucking infrastructure here. These are not.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I was like, maybe they're also bad guys, but I
had my suspicion about the function. Do you know what
a naga is. They're kind of like that, but blue
and with six arms. They take their payment by getting
to eat one or two dwarves a shift. It saves
the company a lot of gold. They hypnotize the dwarves
(22:53):
and grapples getting off the train. They keep them around
for eight to twelve hours, depending on the lines attached
to their station, and they send them through the portal
when it's almost time for shift to start again. It
saves me from having to tell them over time is mandatory,
though sometimes they gather enough wits about them to ask
for time off before they get on the train. Then
they get a trip to my office and I give.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Them the gold arm band. It was my idea.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
We tell them if they wear the armband during one
more run, the Kraviad will know to teleport them straight
home at the end of the shift. But really it
lets the Kraveyad know they're troublemakers who are okay to eat.
It added about another five percent too our productivity in
quarter two.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Even Rod was impressed. I swear to God.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
This is so like, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm looking in
the chat, Michael says, I think she's saying they're casually
grope women.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
So yeah, sexual.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Assault and Seraphim says, but how would they if they
never exit the engineer's compartment because they're instilled with false
She's got fake memories of being groped about. Like it's
honestly kind of genius that, like, you give them the
most surface level fake memories, but part of those memories
are the poor behavior that feeds into a stereotype of
(24:14):
the different types of creatures. So that divides them even
more and makes them more likely to offer each other
up because they don't think the other is really like
a person. You know. It's quite smart and horrible. So yeah,
(24:36):
she let's see, she says, we already had a few
of you sneaking through. It's life bound to the Kravyacht,
so if something happens to them, then the portal snaps closed.
They insisted on that when we wrote out their contract,
which is pretty difficult. That like you need to be
(24:57):
able to do a thing, but you can't kill them
because they you can't get out what like that's yikes.
We'll see how all of this comes together, so let's see,
the Ghules are not my job. Doris over at Substation
B is in charge of that. This is her fuck up,
(25:19):
that husband stealing horror, couldn't even get that right, and.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Eventually, Carl checks in with Ellie and she explains about
that it's not a train, it's like this rotating thing.
Long story short. Carl is like, look, I would go
on this rotating thing. It's very risky, but potentially it'll
make things a lot faster, and in the end that's
(25:48):
what they do decide to do. Immani warns him about
the Ghules and she's like, they don't give hardly any
experience when you kill them, so that doesn't seem worth it.
But there's a lot of them coming, and there's one
called a rath School that's in the mix, which we
think might be at like the end of that stage
two of dts, so be careful of those. So he
(26:14):
comes back to the present and Madison is firing Brandy,
and Brandy is like, you don't get to decide that.
I deal with Portia and Madison's like, I'm her senior,
and it's a whole thing it's just exactly the way
that this sort of shit goes.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And the idea that she's like, just we don't need.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Your services anymore. Where are you even getting that? It's
just in her nature to want to do whatever to
make other people around her feel terrible, And it's honestly,
it's very boring but also just evil. And I really
(26:58):
liked Brandy's line you are ziboot not the foot, which
is great. I'm gonna remember that one. So this is
when Carl says via text to uh No Donut sister
Carl via text, she reminds me of somebody, but I
(27:20):
don't know who, and Carl's laughing because he knows exactly who.
She reminds him instantly of Bee's mom. And later on
Donut finally does put it together and she says something
about how the cats that Bee's mom owned were never
very happy, which, considering things that we hear later, is like,
(27:46):
just how terrible she must have been. Considering how shitty
Bee seems, also, it must have been pretty bad. So
they go to six what is it sixty that they're
bringing this lady to, and they're heading there and he's
(28:11):
going up this ladder in Catsha pulls him aside and
it's like, hey, I need to talk to you. So
she explains that she's able to make.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
More eyes.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
With her ability, but they are not super functional, and
she says, long story short, what's going on here is
that I saw Donut sliding something under the train tracks,
(28:44):
and she didn't know that I saw her because I
was using a third eye, like in the back of
my head. So later on, when I told Hecla about
this whole thing, Hecla tried to say that it was
a setup, but I just don't see how that could
be possible, because Donut couldn't have known that I was
able to see her. So she's putting that out right away.
(29:08):
And also, I've gotten to know you pretty well, and
I just don't think you would do.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Things this way.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
But here's what she was hiding. And she takes out
this coupon, and it is a coupon that gives you
a lot of perks if you kill the person whose
name is written on it, and it is something that
you get after you first kill another crawler and you
get your first skull. Later on INMANI says, I think
(29:37):
the first player in a party to kill a person
is the only one to get this coupon book because
other people get skulls later and they didn't get this
coupon book. And the names on the back of all
the coupons are people in your party, so it's essentially
incentivizing you to betray your own party. And everybody gets
(30:05):
one for every member so that you can, like, you know,
have a good long think about who you think it's
worth getting rid of, who's the weak link that you
could really do without. And it's like an awful moment.
But Carl isn't putting it together, and I was like
(30:25):
waiting for him to clock it, and finally Katcha has
to say to him, the thing is, I didn't see
Donut get rid of the other coupon that has my.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Name on it. This is the only one.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
And he's like, oh shit, well maybe she got rid
of it somewhere else, and she's like maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I just really thought I should tell you now, I
mentioned earlier, I wanted to make note of the fact
that it doesn't occur to her to check the description
of Brandy. I wanted to mention this because I found
it very disappointing. I've said a few times how passive
(31:12):
Koscia seems. And it's not like she isn't a team player,
but she has to be pointed in a certain direction
and given instructions, and it just feels a lot of
the time like she doesn't have a whole lot of
initiative or imagination. So I was really judging her for
the fact that it didn't occur to her to just
check the description of the person that she was so
(31:34):
ready to just let sit by the wayside and get.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Eaten by ghouls.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Now, granted, Madison fucking sucks, you know so, but we
didn't know that yet, and also we did wind up
getting a lot of very valuable information out of her,
So yeah, checking the description is pretty fucking important, and
it had me kind of souring on her, But then
(32:00):
we got this spot and I was really turned around
on feeling like I was so glad that she decides
to talk to him about this. It would have been
really understandable if she got totally flipped out and bought
(32:21):
what uh heckla was saying about it being a setup.
I think a lot of people probably would have leaped
to that conclusion, and I would understand it. It wouldn't
even you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't feel
like I would even be mad because it does. That's
the point of these coupons is to sow this discord,
(32:41):
which Carl understands right away, is that they are meant
to drive a wedge between people even if they're not used,
and that's what it's doing. But the fact that Katcha
chooses to communicate won her a lot of points in
my book, because it's just you would think this wouldn't
(33:02):
be a lot to ask, but like it's unfortunately so
much to ask of a lot of people. And it
speaks also to this author not wanting to do the
cheap drama, because not only does she bring this to
Carl and just decide to talk to him about it,
(33:24):
but Carl instantly, in my opinion, leaps to the correct
conclusion about what was happening, which is that Donat was
uncomfortable with having these and was simply trying to get
rid of it because she didn't like having it in
her inventory at all. He relaxes as soon as it's
explained a little bit further what this is. So if
(33:48):
this were a different author who was trying to do
something kind of lazy. All of this would have turned
a corner and been a big piece of drama in
every direction. I was just so relieved that we were
not fucking doing that, because it's inevitably you as a reader. No,
(34:09):
of course, dough Nut's not going to hurt Carl, you know,
it just doesn't feel like I would never ever seriously
consider that. And it's always really frustrating when as a
reader you feel like you're being smarter than your main character,
And so far this author has done this repeatedly, where
Carl has jumped to a conclusion that I have just
(34:32):
come to right away, and it's always very reassuring because
it feels like, at least this dude is I feel like,
on the same page as me. I hate, hate, hate
feeling like I am waiting for a character to catch
up to a conclusion I have already come to.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
It's the most boring thing imaginable.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
So sorry, Michael says, hard to blame Katcha for being
a bit paranoid. Absolutely, yeah, I don't blame her little bit.
And it's a moment of real like courage to me
for her to openly bring this up to him. This
was a risk she was taking even though we know
it's not because we know what's going that like Carl
(35:13):
isn't aware, but like I'm sure she was a little
freaked out having to do this, SARAHM says. Some of
it is also she hasn't really internalized that this is
a game and operates on its own logic. Fully, some
things seem obvious, but they really do require to rethink
how basic things operate. I get the impression Katcha wasn't
really a gamer before this, unlike Carl, who was, so
(35:37):
has the context to accept these game mechanics faster.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I don't dislike that as an explanation, Sarahm. But it
is like fully headcannon, And if the author wanted to
make that clear and make it a result of the
fact that she wasn't a.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Gamer and so like she's just not getting.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
A lot of this, I think that would I would
accept it and it would help. But that's not really
in the text at all. You know, I feel like
I could agree with you, like I could say I
get that impression also, but it isn't explained enough for
(36:15):
it to feel like there's even an acknowledgment from the
author about her not grasping things. You know, if that
were the case, I would wish for that to be
talked about a little bit more specifically. Michael says, I
think Natasha hid on it. In a previous episode, Katya
also got used to letting badass Heckla the Amazon Warrior
(36:38):
Queen handle things while she just coasted. Oh, I forgot that,
I said that, And yeah, because that's kind of you know,
Carl's one coming up with all the ideas now, and
to a degree, like when you're a tank, that's part
of your job, is you just put yourself where you're
told to be put. But she hasn't. She's trying to
embrace being a tank, but it's it's clear that that's
(37:01):
a little difficult for her. So yeah, it's just I
just have gone back and forth on her. And I
liked this moment a lot because it felt like it
gave me something to hold on to about her personality
in more of a definitive way, that showed me how
(37:21):
she would approach a problem and made me feel like,
this is a person who is really trying to use
logic and communication, which I always respect.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
You know, it's just a.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
You wouldn't think it would be so hard to find
and it is so yeah, this entire thing, it's a
it's a wild wrench to throw in the works. And
after this conversation, he tells her like, I'm going to
talk to Dona about it. Don't worry, I'm not going
to tell her you're the one who told me. And
she accepts this clearly is like a little bit twitchy still.
(37:55):
But and then he decides to get in touch with
Imani and it turns out he's behind Dona already got
in touch with Himni, and it's obviously like this is
the one person that they both thought of who had
skulls after their name, that they could talk to and
be like, so, how did you handle this? And I
(38:15):
just really enjoyed finding out that donuts out here talking
to other crawlers and not letting Karl know. I thought
it was an interesting thing to like find out that
there might be some things that she's not comfortable talking.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
To Carl about.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
And one, of course, the whole thing with like the
I just got a skull and I'm having trouble coping
with that. That makes a lot of sense. There's also
a part of me that sort of wonders if it's
not just like she was so close to be and
maybe there's a part of her that missus having a
connection with a woman, you know, maybe that's like an
(38:53):
energy that she's been sort of missing. But Katcha is
right here, and she doesn't go to Katcha. But also
there's a sense of like not really trusting what's going
on there. And so all this to say, I'm not
saying that I found fault with this part of the scene,
but I am saying that I was personally disappointed.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I was so hopeful.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
That after he told Katcha, hey, I'll talk to Donah,
you know, let me just like figure this out. I
was so hopeful he was going to be like, and
since we're putting our cards on the table here, I
have been told to potentially watch out for Hekla trying
(39:38):
to take me out and poach Donut. I don't know
if you know anything about that, but I thought you
ought to, Like, no, I'm aware of it. I was
sort of like thinking, maybe we're just gonna air it
all out right now, you know, and share our like
little suspicions and fears.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
But we don't do that.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
And I'm not mad about it.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Like I said, I was just sort of wondering maybe.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
And it doesn't really go that way, which I'm not
even sure is really a mistake. It might have been
the smart thing to do to just keep that shit
to himself, you know. But I definitely was sort of
feeling like they were kind of on the same level,
where she's coming at him about an associate and the
(40:29):
potential that that associate might be gunning for her. Do
you know anything about it? It really is kind of
the same scenario in a way. So anyway, it just
I was just sort of thinking about it because it
felt like it was very much like on the same level.
Saraphim says, First, you worry he's screwing himself over by
(40:52):
sharing info that really has no downside to sharing. The
expect him to share something that would actually bite him
in the ass if the wrong person finds out sharing
himself over by sharing info that has no downside to sharing. Oh,
are you talking about the train stuff. I wasn't even
I wasn't worried he was screwing himself over. I was
just saying that there are advantages keeping information to yourself,
(41:14):
which is just a fact, you know. Like, there are
a lot of people that are gonna play that way,
but this is like, that's what I'm saying. I one,
I didn't expect him to share, and two, she is
sharing info that could bite her in the ass if
the wrong person finds out. So it's the exact same scenario,
which is why it occurred to me that maybe he
(41:36):
would repay it in kind. You know, she's doing that,
She's taking this risk, so it felt like it would
be kind of a perfect moment to bring it up
and just be like, look, maybe we.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Need to you know.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
And he says later, I feel like she's behaving a
little weirdly and that she senses I'm not treating her
as a full.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Member of the team.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
And I think that part of it is his suspicions
about HECLA are bleeding into the way that he treats Katya.
It's not he says that, it's like possibly just about
we know Katya wants to be with HECLA and will
go back to HECLA when the opportunity arises.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
But I think there's probably more.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
To it than that, because when you are not sure
if you can trust somebody and maybe are actively suspicious
of them. It can't you can't help, but let that
bleed into how you behave around them a little bit,
and whether or not they completely clock why you're acting
that way, they will sense that something's off, you know.
(42:37):
So I feel like that could potentially be part of it.
Is that, like she's just feeling the vibe from you
that you're holding back on her, and maybe after she's
come to you with this info, potentially maybe it's time,
you know, maybe she wouldn't be as an interested in
(43:00):
going back to Hecla. I don't know though, like Hecla
is close enough to Kocha or well, I'm saying Hecklea's
close to Katya.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
We don't know that.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
We know that Kotya depends on Hecla a lot, so
that's different. So it's certainly possible that like maybe I
tell her and she just goes running to Hecla, and
now Heckla's like, oh, well he knows I want to
kill him, I may as well get it over, you
know what I mean. I don't really think that's how
it would go down, but it's you know, possible. But
(43:33):
that's also like the risks she was taking. So yeah, Michael, says,
I think the difference is Katya kind of trusts karl
i' not to screw her over. Karl might trust Kotcha
not to backstab him, but he can't trust her not
to mention it to someone else and the sisters. Yeah,
and this, like that's kind of the question too. If
she did mention it, what would that even?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Do?
Speaker 1 (43:55):
You know? Like it's not like.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
He knows anything for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
He just has his suspicion that was given to him
by who was it Zev that told him this, So
like it might not really change the scenario all that much.
I don't know what would even happen. Oh Dette, thank
(44:21):
you guys. So yeah, I mean, like I said, there's
plenty of risks to it, but it was just on
my mind because it felt like so similar. So anyway,
when he gets in touch with Himani, she explains that
she got rid of her coupont book on the first floor.
(44:42):
She tried to burn it and it wouldn't burn, so
she just had to leave it behind, which the actual
coupon says, if you have this coupon in your inventory,
So that worries me because that means that potentially, if
somebody else were to come across it, that person can
use her her.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Whole book of coupons.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
As long as she hit it, well, it's likely nobody
will come across it. And obviously that was the thing
that Heckla was saying Katya was being set up for,
was that you're being given this coupon to see if
you're willing to.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Kill Karl for all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
You know, So anyway, let's see. I think he asks
about whether or not he'd be allowed to join up
with the daughters, whether men are allowed, and that there
was like this one particular man that Katya is describing,
like he we wound up having to fight him and
(45:36):
he was not allowed to join not because he was
a man, but because he was a creep, which I
kind of like, it's just going to be inevitable, you know,
when you've got a group of women, dudes just do
not know how to act. And I could understand that
the fact that all of them are women, it doesn't
(45:57):
feel like that's a coincidence. But what it comes down
to is her saying, I think Hecla would want to
talk to you first because she thinks you're reckless, but
she really likes donut so like, that's as close to
confirmation of what we were told as we get as
we get. So let's see, let's see. This is when
(46:23):
he's talking about Katcha. It was clear that she wanted
and then I liked Katya. I liked her a whole lot.
She was painfully quiet, but she was so damn earnest,
and I was sort of feeling like I liked her
a whole lot. I was like trying to sus is
this like kind of a romantic vibe? But I don't
really think so. And he's sort of just debating with
(46:46):
himself what to do and remembers just saying, why can't
people just be loyal back in the day when he
was talking to be about how she was going to
sell donut and how Bee just didn't understand why he
was upset because she saw donut as an item of
(47:12):
value and not as a living thing. And look, I
am not one of those people who thinks that rehoming
a pet is a cardinal sin.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
There are some folks out.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
There that really go hard on this, like absolutist. If
you took in an animal, they are your responsibility and
handing them off to somebody else is always deeply selfish
and hugely traumatic and YadA YadA.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
I don't buy that shit.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I think that sometimes it's the responsible thing to do,
and it can be just as hard for the owner
as the animal, but ultimately the animal will be fine.
You know. Yeah, they might miss you, they might wonder
what's going on. That's part of the hardship of having
animals that don't speak English and understand things the way
that we do is that you can't always communicate everything
(48:05):
to them.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
But by no.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Means does that mean that like, you shouldn't do this
if you are unable to care for your pet adequately
and so like, on that level, I can get very
like irritated when people are like I can't believe they
rehomed there.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
I'm just like, get over yourself.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
However, this is a whole different ballgame because it's not
just rehoming. It's selling and for breeding and for shows
for earning money, and that is just some shit that
I always find gross. You know, this is just, without fail,
I think, is nasty work. So this whole like, you know,
(48:49):
everything that we have learned about b I just keep
being like, why did you like her? Like there's there's
been like no moments of thinking bad about b and
me feeling like, Okay, I see it now, I can't.
Like there's one moment where she's explaining why she likes Carl,
(49:11):
and it's the bare minimum of like her being nice
about him and his capabilities to her mom, and otherwise
it's just been garbage over and over. And this for
me would be an absolute deal breaker. If somebody acted
like this about a pet, I'm not staying with them.
That I wouldn't get involved with somebody who was doing
(49:33):
like show animals to begin with, but this would definitely be.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
The end of the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
So eventually they get to Stop sixty, which is allegedly
this huge station with dorms and apartments and stores. It's
like I was imagining, sort of the central hub of
like an airport.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
And they get there and it's nothing.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
It's nothing, and Madison is insisting it's a mistake and
won't leave because she depends on the fact that trained
security will eventually come along and save her. And this
is the thing with people like this is that they
do trust the system in a way that is so unwarranted,
(50:22):
you know, they just it's infuriating, it's warranted like to
a degree, because they haven't been personally victimized by the
system in the way a lot of other people have.
So you can see why they aren't actively afraid of
said system, but they haven't begun to put the pieces
together that the reason other people are victimized is because
(50:44):
it's part of a larger, overall system of oppression, and
that ultimately you will be part of that, you know.
So this whole thing is just very funny because eventually
he just says, all right, well, fuck off, And as
they're leaving, that's when Donut is like, oh my god,
(51:05):
I remember her who she reminds me of Miss Beatrice's mom.
None of the cats there were very happy. I could
tell she didn't treat them as well as Miss Beatrice
treated me. The comparison didn't seem so funny anymore. Yeah,
(51:25):
that's where.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Bee was headed, man, it really was.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
So then we go to chapter nineteen, and this is
wild if we get some updates from various people about
what's going on. Immani and uh, he says, Ammani and crew,
because I keep forgetting that it's not just her and Ellie.
(51:51):
There's people with them. But they wind up somewhere where
they're like able to kill a bunch of things, and
they're being like, there's a lot of them and it's
a bit overwhelming, but they're managing it. Bautista says the
Cragad wasn't a boss at all, but was a multi
armed snake woman NPC that had attempted to hypnotize the crawlers,
(52:12):
but Bautista had somehow neutralized her ability to cast the spell.
I used my last evoka NYE, the purple variant. I
had no idea what that meant, so I'm wondering if
that is going to come up later. And then Donut
and I headed to the Desperado Club to talk to
(52:33):
any remaining crawlers while KaiA spent some time at her
makeup table. And again, one of these two rock monsters
has bought a protective spell and it's adorable. I just
love the two of them taking this all so seriously.
There's a moment where Donut is talking about going into
(52:55):
Penis Parade and then mentions a guy who used to
come over when Karl wasn't home and look at himself
in the mirror and put one of Carl's socks on
his dong and swing it around and just donut you
have to know what you're saying. At this point, I
refuse to believe that she doesn't get the significance, like,
come on, lady, chill out a little bit. And then
(53:19):
when they step inside, there's a guy at the bar
and they recognize him right away and it turns out to.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Be Frank.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
And he's only level seventeen and Carl is like, what
is happening? And immediately I was like, ah, yeah, Bro's
given up. He's not really like playing anymore. And he
doesn't like react because, you know, he says something about
how finally I'm gonna get my revenge, and I kind
(53:50):
of thought because he and his wife weren't working together anymore.
I was sort of debating, like, is it possible that
he actually wants revenge on his wife? Maybe this is
all being phrased so as to act like I'm taking
revenge on you, but it's really that I'm trying to
(54:13):
get back at my bitch wife. It's not actually his
wife either, by the way, because it turns out that
they had been like split up already. So he recounts
what was going on. I'm trying to find the part
(54:33):
where he starts telling that story about his brother in law.
Let's see, I told him the truth and they ditched
me at the end of the floor. I didn't want
to go down, but I'm a coward, and I did
what cowards do. I followed the easiest path, and I
descended stupid. I landed on a train with a bunch
of new folks, but they didn't want anything to.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Do with me either.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
These skulls make it hard for people to trust you,
which yeah it. And he then says, how I'm going
to get my revenge is I'm going to give you
a present And he pulls out this ring and puts
it on the bar, and it's green glass with a
(55:19):
red jewel. Enchanted night Worm's Ring of Divine Suffering. This
magical ring can be one of the most formidable items
in the dungeon. If utilized properly, this ring's wielder can
grow exponentially in strength, but beware if poorly wielded, this
(55:40):
ring will kill you quicker than an exploding rage elemental.
The wearer of this ring receives the following benefits plus
five percent to all stats the marked for death skill.
You will be presented with a list of crawlers within
your map's range. Only crawlers with one hundred percent health
will be selectable. Once a crawler is chosen, they will
(56:01):
be marked. It takes thirty seconds for the mark to
set and become active. When a crawler with an active
mark dies, no matter the cause, you will receive a
permanent plus one stat point to whatever that crawler's current
highest stat is. This plus one increases by one for
every three marks you kill. Once a mark is set,
(56:22):
you may no longer heal, So choose your marks carefully,
don't let them get away. And then there's a bunch
of different rules about what floors have, how much cool down.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
And YadA YadA.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
Too much for me to get into. I'm sure at
some point this will be relevant, but right now it's not,
so I'm ignoring it. And Carl is pretty much like,
even if you are somebody who's like down to kill crawlers,
the ratio of risk to reward here does not feel
worth it.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
Like it just you know.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
So he's like looking at this and kind kind of
trying to figure out like why this would even be
very valuable, and Frank explains, I got it for fighting
a family member while I entered the dungeon, a legendary
that's the spirit box, my ex brother in law, not
even a real family member, but the dungeon didn't see
(57:19):
it that way. I choked him out and then we
got attacked by Ratkins and they killed him while he
was still unconscious. And then finally Carl realizes, oh my god,
we saw IVI get injured and for some reason, they
(57:39):
didn't heal her. And he understands she was wearing this
ring and they had marked me so she couldn't heal.
And he's like, you let her use the ring, and
Frank is.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
Like, I didn't let her. I made her.
Speaker 1 (57:56):
Because she wouldn't fight, so she wasn't going up any levels.
So this was the compromise. And Mags would tell her
who to pick, and you know, this was the only
thing that we could think of to get her to
be stronger. And I can't imagine he sees that Karl
(58:20):
is judging him for this. He suddenly erupted in anger.
You don't understand what it means to be responsible for somebody.
You don't have a kid in here with you. You'd
understand what that responsibility means, what a weight that is
on your shoulders, and when you fail, it's like being crushed,
(58:42):
constantly crushed, only you don't die, and the pain never stops.
It just keeps coming and coming. And honestly, I can't
even imagine choosing this was insane on his part, but
(59:04):
also having a child with you that you're trying to
protect in this place, like, I don't what do you
even you know, Like, yeah, especially if she's refusing to fight,
which I don't blame her for.
Speaker 2 (59:20):
I'm not mad at her for that, but like, what
the fuck are you supposed to do?
Speaker 1 (59:25):
And this is just really really heartbreaking because I definitely
judge him, but I don't think I'm judging him as
harshly as Carl is.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
I feel like Carl is like a lot more.
Speaker 1 (59:42):
I'm just I am so keenly aware of who their
game guide was and the way they were told this
game is played that it's really difficult for me to
like completely blame them for the way they approached everything.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
But then there's, you know, the.
Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Aspect of the fact that, like they were both law enforcement,
which is often a type of person that prays on
other people, And so it's a weird combo of like,
did you get the game guide that you got due
(01:00:24):
to the system knowing what kind of person you are.
Is that at all part of the factor that decides
who your guide is.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Because that doesn't feel accidental. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Yeah, And Carl says, this man didn't deserve for his
story to be told, not after what he did. In
a way, people like him were worse than the syndicate
and the aliens who destroyed us. He was one of us,
and he turned against his own, which is like how
I feel about cops, you know, like this is really
it is that kind of energy. And he explains that
(01:01:06):
a vet had run away and got picked up by
the sheriff and his brother in law was the deputy
and he was his ex wife's little brother. He blamed
me for all of the vet's issues. He called us
to come get her. It pulled me off a surveillance.
We were in the parking lot screaming at each other
(01:01:26):
when it happened and a vet ran into the tunnel.
Maggie tried to run in after her, and I pushed her,
which made her brother mad, And yeah, why'd.
Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
You push her? Like what was that?
Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
It should make him mad? Why are you shoving her?
What is that doing? And I love when Doughnut chimes
in and she's just glaring at Frank from Sledge's shoulder,
and they both have pink boas on and the Sledge
has a cowboy hat, and there's the button that says,
(01:02:01):
I like my sausages extra large penis Parade Desperado Club
floor one.
Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
So it ends with Carl asking did Maggie ever take
that legendary potion that would max out the fine Crawler skill?
And he says that was where our fight started, because
I wanted to sell this ring, and I wanted to
sell the potion and then we could buy gear and
train properly. But all she wanted was to kill you.
(01:02:32):
I don't know if she's taken it or not. Our
guide suggested she wait till she picked a class that
would let the skill rise to twenty, not fifteen, but
I don't know if she did. I suddenly thought of
those PvP coupons. I wondered if Maggie had one. I
wondered if she'd received extra rewards for killing her own daughter.
(01:02:55):
Oh can you imagine you guys? You kill your own
kid to put them out of their miss and then
you get like a reward box for it, and considering
the tone of the AI, it would be so hateful,
the whole description of it. It would be awful. A
combination of killing a family member, killing a party member,
(01:03:18):
killing your own young I mean, you'd probably get like
a bunch of weirdo achievements too. It.
Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Oh god, it would be so gross.
Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
And the fact that she like blames Carl, it's just
it's one of those things that makes no real sense,
but is how human beings work. It's super illogical. You know,
you guys just tried to attack Carl, and he knew
you'd be after him, and so he was defending himself,
which Frank himself acknowledges. But she doesn't see it this way.
(01:03:53):
And it's like, none of this would have happened if
you didn't use this sicko ring.
Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Nobody made you do.
Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
You decided that this was like the most efficient thing,
and you picked the target. And that's probably what's making
her crazy. Is it's easier to blame Carl for it
than it is to admit it's all her fault, which
it is so sucks to suck, I guess. And Carl
(01:04:25):
comes to the conclusion like he's not going to try
and come after Frank.
Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
This dude is out of the game and not a threat.
Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
And Frank watches him put the ring on and just
says vengeance his mind. And that is the end of
chapter nineteen. So yeah, that was a really satisfying reveal.
I had completely forgotten about the fact that it looked
like she could be healed and they didn't heal her.
Completely forgotten about that, And it was a very like
(01:04:57):
well done, well executed, you did pun intended uh twist
on everything, And you know, I you guys, I've been
thinking a lot because I've talked about this like project
I'm working on with a friend where we're going to
be telling this big story over time, and how much
(01:05:18):
there is to like keep track of. And I wonder
how this author keeps track of everybody's like race and
class and what's in each of their inventories and the
types of things that they would get because of the
class they are or the type of like approach to
combat that they have. It just there must he must
(01:05:38):
have like a database that is so huge and loaded
with stuff. I was just thinking about it the other
day because there's a lot of moments in these books,
like the second books where something that he collected into
his inventory in the first book gets brought back up again,
and I'm just like, man, this has got to be
a real like either he keeps great track or he
(01:06:03):
has like a Beata reader who is this is one
of their things they love to do. There are people
out there who love doing this sort of organizational stuff,
you know. So maybe he found somebody and he's just
like you figured it out. I don't know, but yeah,
I just I always think about that with when you
start getting into something like this, where a lot of
the skills and everything you have to keep track of
(01:06:23):
like what level everybody's at, what perks they're getting from
what objects and items, and constantly readjusts that based on
whatever they have equipped and YadA YadA, Like it's got
to be pretty complicated after a point. So anyway, I
really really liked this section. There's just a lot of
interesting stuff being brought into the equation. And I am
(01:06:46):
looking forward to his conversation with Cupcake about the PvP
coupons because she's just like I want her to confide
in him. I want her to be honest with him,
and I hope that she did get rid of Katcha's
coupon already, but I have a feeling that she probably
kept it. I don't know, probably, we'll see, all right,
(01:07:09):
I'm going to wrap up. Thank you guys again so
much for listening. Thank you to Michael for commissioning this one.
Appreciate you all, and until next time to the Loo motherfuckers.
(01:07:49):
That was an unspoiled Network podcast.
This is an Unspoiled Network podcast. This is spoil Me
covering Dungeon Crawler Carl Book three, The Dungeon Anarchists Cookbook,
chapters seventeen through nineteen. In these chapters, we get introduced
(00:24):
to a whole new concept, the player versus player card.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Coupon.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I should say, and this is a real insidious, little
sneaky wrinkle to throw into things, and I hate it.
Welcome to spoil Me, Welcome to the show everyone. I
(01:04):
am Natasha. Thank you very much to Michael for commissioning
this episode. So all right, I had said that I
was going to cover the end of this chapter, the
last chapter, during this recording, but honestly it winds up
not being that relevant to things like going forward. So
I feel okay with sort of bypassing that because it's
(01:26):
just sort of them, you know, figuring out exactly where
to go, Carl deciding to do station repair.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Because otherwise they just go into that.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Abyss and Brandy and Donut having their little chat about
her being a mom and having Mango and Kascious saying
I was about to adopt, but I let's see here
it is, I was about to adopt, but aliens destroyed
my planet. That's too bad, honey, Brandy said, sounding genuinely sincere.
(02:00):
So I feel okay with that, and let's just get
it rolling. So chapter seventeen. It's kind of funny actually,
because I read this section twice. I wasn't able to
get through the second read all the way through, but
it was sort of funny once I went back and
reread how much it felt like what happens in this
(02:24):
station winds up not really mattering yet. Maybe it will later,
but I was thinking this would be something I would
talk a lot more about. And then once we start
getting into some of the other reveals in these chapters,
this really falls by the wayside. So I'm going to
try and get through this part as quickly as I can.
(02:47):
They arrive at the repair yard and it's full of ghoules,
but they're not actually undead. They are suffering from withdrawal,
and so they are still like kind of able to
(03:08):
They're conscious to a point, and because they're not actually undead,
the kinds of magic you would use on actual gules
won't work on these guys. But there are enough of
them that it's causing a huge problem. And it turns
out as we find out later all of the repairs
(03:30):
they are going to be rerouting to a different place
because that place doesn't have this overrun. Now I feel
like this other repair yard might not exist. I can't
remember if it's specifically referenced or not, but like every
time somebody starts talking about how there's this other place
(03:52):
that we're gonna go and it's better there no matter
what it is, it turns out it's not real, doesn't exist,
it's not you know. So I kind of feel like,
in the end, I just reached a point where I'm thinking, yeah,
that's not really either. But they wind up here. It
is the festering Ghoule. They have two purposes, devour as
(04:17):
much organic matter as possible and find more of its kind.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
All they need is enough.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Of their kind to arrive before their purpose becomes clear,
which we don't know what that is, but of course
it's very bad. Then they see this one dude coming
toward them, and he is a goblin, but he's covered
in hair. He's not like whenever I think of a goblin,
(04:46):
I think of a creature that's pretty much hairless. And
he is a grease gremlin named Widget. I don't know
if you guys have seen the Basle of Baker Street,
what is the Great Mouse Detective?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
But there is a bat creature.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
In that little children's movie and his name is Fidget.
And honestly, it feels to me like this guy is
like kind of because Fidget has a really weird accent also,
and he is very goblin like, and I just and
(05:33):
he's not he's a likable bad guy. He's like one
of the bad guy's sidekicks. But he is just a
really fun little weirdo. And so he was on my
mind throughout this. I just kept picturing Fidget, which made
it all the sadder when eventually his head gets ripped
clean off his body because I had grown too rather
(05:56):
like him. He was sort of sweet in his weird way,
and yeah, I just I don't I didn't want what
happened to him to happen to him. He was trying
to help our friends, you know. So yeah, very very sad.
But uh sorry, Michael says deep cut. I haven't thought
of that movie in forever, And yeah, that's one of
(06:18):
those ones that like a lot of people haven't seen,
but if you have, I feel like it has really
made an impression and you'll remember things.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And I actually watched it not that long ago.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
It was like a few years ago, but I found
out my husband had never seen it, and I was like, oh,
we got it because it's actually it holds up pretty well,
and yeah, going through it a second time, still still
a winner.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Radigan is a great villain and.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
There's just like a lot of excellent moments and I
recommend it if you haven't seen it.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I think kids would really enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And as an adult, it's sort of like fun to
see them riffing on Sherlock Holmes the way that they do.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's a fun little like you know.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So anyway, he thinks at first that they like work
for the trains, and then he realizes that they're crawlers
and he's like, what the hell did you fucking come here?
And Carl is like, well, we're trying to find stairwells,
and he says, why did you come all this way
for stairwells? Just take the Escape Velocity train. It goes
(07:25):
to all the stairwells, which I don't even remember hearing
about the Escape Velocity train. If that was like something
that was marked or what does he think it's marked?
I guess he must. And anyway, he's uh basically telling
them all like you came to the wrong fucking place,
(07:47):
and also nobody here likes crawlers, so you should just
get out, you know, Like all the trains in this
yard aren't even gonna be able to get out because
we're not going to be opening the gates again because
of the ghoul. So at this point, a ghoul comes
up on them and starts to cause some trouble, and
(08:09):
Donut hits it with a magic missile, and this causes
Widget to zero.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
In on her in the weirdest way.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
It's just look anything that's like coming on to a
fully cat creature when that thing itself feels sort of humanoid,
even though it's not humanoid.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's not human, but it's humanoid in its way.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
It just just gives me.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
The ick a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
You know. I'm like having to remember he's no more
human than he is cat necessarily, Like I don't know
what all is in the mix with a goblin.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
But it was just a weird sensation.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And so he's like flirting with her and talking about
coming home with him so his wife can cook them
both some fish.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And I love her being.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Like, well, it really does depend on the quality of
fish that you will be serving, sir. But then when
she's like calls out the fact that he just said
he's married, he's like, my mom my wife won't care.
I think she'd like to get in on that action
a little bit herself. And I was just like, all right,
it's like that. So yeah, this whole thing is sort
of just a very odd moment. So Carl then is like, okay, well,
(09:36):
if they're not opening the gates, how the fuck did
we get out of here? And he's like, well, we'd
have to climb up if you have the ability to
do it. And he's looking at this chain. Let's see.
I reckon, I better open a hole in the ceiling
before you get overwhelmed. It'll take me a good He
didn't finish. In the distance, a mighty crash reverberated throughout
(09:59):
the train yard. A section of the colossal wall that
separated the yard from the conductor staging area collapsed in
a mighty heap. The crowd of ghoules surged out of
the enclosure, and which it's like, all right, now we
got to change up what we're gonna do. I'll unhook you.
I'll get into my tower, get on the turntable, and
(10:19):
I get you into the employing line. Go slow and
you'll see him. The distances are much shorter here. The
homeword bound is locked up tighter than an octoid's cunt,
so you'll have the track all to yourself. And let's see.
I'm gonna climb up the chain and get me into
the tower. And he's like giving them this whole plan.
(10:40):
And just as Carl is like, sounds great, he's like,
all right, awesome, and he turns and he waves as
he's about to leave, and the ghoul that Donut killed
comes back to life and rips his head off. And
I was honestly like, oh, wadge it. So now we
(11:01):
have to figure out how we're gonna get the fuck
out of here, and don't it decides Carl, you're the
one who can drive the train.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I can't let you climb that.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I'll go up, and she says, Manga will be ready
to graduate college by the time you get up there.
I can puddle jump if I have to, but I'd
rather save it for coming back. So she climbs up,
and she is able to do the thing and let's
(11:30):
see this time the rails matched up. I pulled the brake,
knocked on the window to let Brandy know we were moving,
and I eased the train forward. We had almost a
dozen gules climbing the exterior. If they got near the window,
Katchias speared them with her hand. They stumbled as the
train lurched, a few fell off. So they begin to
pull out. And this was so funny. See if there's
(11:52):
a control up there that will open the gate, I
already opened it by accident, and more ghouls started walking out.
I didn't tell you because I thought you.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Might get mad. Ah, that was funny.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So she puddle jumps back onto the train. And as
they are heading out here, the ghules are climbing. They're
on the cow catcher. It's a whole thing. And then
all of a sudden he sees this. Uh like there's
a bunch of different employees around who are being killed
(12:25):
by these things. Dozens of dead dwarfs and grapples lay
on the ground where they've been congregating. As I watched,
a dwarf and a pair of porters materialized, popping right
out of the brick wall. They looked dazed, A moment later,
they were set upon by ghules, which just the fact
that they're being put through what they're being put through,
and the ghules are right there, like all of this
(12:47):
is just so unfair. They don't stand a single chance
and it really sucks. And then Carl spots a human
and Katscha is like, dude, don't stop for her. Do
you see her? And he's like, look at her description. Now, guys,
I just want to mention something. I want to take
(13:10):
note of this moment, and I'm going to bring it
up a little bit later, all right. I just want
to take note of this moment that he has to
tell her check out her description. Okay, just mentioning that here,
and then we'll come back to this. So her name
isn't really Madison, but she changed it after she got divorced.
(13:33):
After multiple rounds of breast augmentation, pilates and labia plasty,
Madison has emerged as a new woman labia plasty. Look,
maybe there are times where this is like necessary for
quality of life, but for the most part, the whole
concept of it, I really detest. She relishes the power
(13:54):
she has of over other Iron Tangle employees. She feels
an almost second actual surge of gratification when she tells
those dwarves that overtime is mandatory and they stop for her,
and of course, almost immediately after being like thank you,
is like, but you're not employees?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
What are you doing in here? This lady?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
It's a really wild ride what's going on with her?
Because clearly the whole thing is very like, I don't
realize that I am just as disposable as everybody else.
And you run into this sort of person not infrequently.
(14:39):
It's just a like the idea that they have their
own little bit of power and so they think this
means that they matter. It's kind of remarkable how many
people fall into that trap. And it's a combination of things.
(15:02):
It's people who enjoy power and like to bully, but
I also think there's like an element of people who
don't really have much of an identity, and so they
get a job that they can then kind of really
pour everything into and make their whole life about that job.
(15:22):
And it's very sad in a way that that's like
maybe all they've got. But we also do encourage people
to be so like career driven in our culture that
to a degree it's like, can you blame somebody for
falling into that trap when we really make it seem
(15:42):
like what someone does for their living is their whole identity.
Like that's how we will describe people. It's just like, oh,
he's a mechanic, you know, like just whatever it is
they do is their thing. And granted, maybe if that's
the context you know somebody in, but like we assign
a lot of value to that, and so for another
person to take that on as their whole thing isn't.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Really that surprising.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
It's just the way that she is willing to sacrifice
the people around her and doesn't see that she might
be just as likely to be targeted that you just
want to shake her, you know. It's just it's bonkers
that she doesn't see it. And I feel this way
(16:26):
so often about so many people that you like, this
is just the epitome of the sort of person who
would vote for Donald Trump, where they really think that
because they're not one of those people, which means any
marginalized group of any kind, they think that they're part
of Donald's crew. And it's like he would literally not piss.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
On you if you are on fire.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
You are the kind of person that he is laughing
at because you're falling for his shit like a chomp,
and you just don't think that you're part of the
group that he is exploiting and doesn't give a shit about.
So it's just this sort of mindset that is really like,
you know, it's very real, and it's also a huge
(17:19):
symptom of people who are like really upper middle class.
They're not necessarily wealthy, but they have enough disposable income
that they can do some things that can trick you
into thinking that their upper class if you don't know better,
and they desperately want to be and believe they will
(17:40):
eventually be part of the ruling class. So they're totally
willing to sacrifice everyone else because they think that this
is just a stepping stone to getting to the point
where they can be in the in crowd. And it
is very much giving. Like fry On, Oh my god,
I can't rememer the name of the show, but he
(18:01):
says something about how like someday I'll be rich and
then people like me better watch out, and yeah, that's
the whole vibe. So let's see, I have an apartment
in the executive quarters outside of yard A and the
fact that it's called the executive Quarters is so funny,
(18:22):
Like this is just it's so beautiful. Honestly, if you
have like any understanding of the way certain things are marketed,
calling it executive quarters is do you give things these
arbitrary titles and make people feel like they have access
(18:43):
to something better and more exclusive, and nothing about it
has to be materially different. It's just called a different thing,
and they will fucking be so grateful to you for
this nonsense that you.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Just served up. It's very embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So he asks her, like, have you ever even been
to your apartment? And she's like, well, of course I have.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's just been a few days.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And Carl is starting to realize they've given people like
these backstories, but they're just super surface level, so once
you begin to ask them questions, they don't.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Understand why they can't remember.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And her she's attributing this because she was getting attacked
when they picked her up to getting like a concussion
from that wolf school. But interestingly, Carl is remembering something
that a person named Harrod had put in the cookbook
about how it's easier to break through the fourth wall
(19:52):
on NPCs because they are the weak link since they
are actually live and that. Yes, it can be a
little cruel, but it's necessary. You just have to keep
asking them and pushing them to answer, even when it
seems like they want you to leave it alone.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Just be firm.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
And then he says, you've been Either you've either been
to your apartment or you've never seen yard A.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
It can't be both. Which is it? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That goal must have given me a concussion. Look, I
have several questions. Answer them for me, and we'll take
you to station sixty. If somewhere there knows how to
get to yard A. From there, we'll take you. Okay,
what do you want to know? If it's about the trains,
I don't really know much. I'm in charge of telling
employees that overtime is mandatory. They come out to get
(20:49):
on the homeward bound and I tell them to get
back to work. Oh and I'm the benefits manager for
all the Kravat and the sixth station mimics, the what
Terminus station mimics. There's six of them, and boy do
they get cranky if we don't send enough passengers into them.
Those things are ravenous. We tell the workers to always
tell the customers to get off on four thirty three,
(21:10):
but you'd be surprised at how awful dwarfs are at
following instructions. And don't get me started on the mantors.
They can't keep their pause to themselves, which I don't
know if that's supposed to be like sexual assault or
what is she saying that they eat people like he
didn't seem like he would eat. This didn't seem like
his deal. I don't know what she's talking about there,
(21:34):
but yeah, so stations that are mimics terrifying, and so
he tries to warn Batista, but unfortunately Batista and a
group of four hundred people have already gotten off at
a mimic and a bunch of them were swallowed up.
And we are on the platform now fighting off its
(21:57):
tongue and its minions, It belches, and these walking mouth
things pour out of it. I mean, my god, what
a wild idea. I hope, but she used to makes it.
(22:17):
I like the guy, you know, so hopefully, and eventually
they start talking about the craviad, which I had thought
from the beginning. I was like, yeah, they're part.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Of the fucking infrastructure here. These are not.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I was like, maybe they're also bad guys, but I
had my suspicion about the function. Do you know what
a naga is. They're kind of like that, but blue
and with six arms. They take their payment by getting
to eat one or two dwarves a shift. It saves
the company a lot of gold. They hypnotize the dwarves
(22:53):
and grapples getting off the train. They keep them around
for eight to twelve hours, depending on the lines attached
to their station, and they send them through the portal
when it's almost time for shift to start again. It
saves me from having to tell them over time is mandatory,
though sometimes they gather enough wits about them to ask
for time off before they get on the train. Then
they get a trip to my office and I give.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Them the gold arm band. It was my idea.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
We tell them if they wear the armband during one
more run, the Kraviad will know to teleport them straight
home at the end of the shift. But really it
lets the Kraveyad know they're troublemakers who are okay to eat.
It added about another five percent too our productivity in
quarter two.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Even Rod was impressed. I swear to God.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
This is so like, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm looking in
the chat, Michael says, I think she's saying they're casually
grope women.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
So yeah, sexual.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Assault and Seraphim says, but how would they if they
never exit the engineer's compartment because they're instilled with false
She's got fake memories of being groped about. Like it's
honestly kind of genius that, like, you give them the
most surface level fake memories, but part of those memories
are the poor behavior that feeds into a stereotype of
(24:14):
the different types of creatures. So that divides them even
more and makes them more likely to offer each other
up because they don't think the other is really like
a person. You know. It's quite smart and horrible. So yeah,
(24:36):
she let's see, she says, we already had a few
of you sneaking through. It's life bound to the Kravyacht,
so if something happens to them, then the portal snaps closed.
They insisted on that when we wrote out their contract,
which is pretty difficult. That like you need to be
(24:57):
able to do a thing, but you can't kill them
because they you can't get out what like that's yikes.
We'll see how all of this comes together, so let's see,
the Ghules are not my job. Doris over at Substation
B is in charge of that. This is her fuck up,
(25:19):
that husband stealing horror, couldn't even get that right, and.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Eventually, Carl checks in with Ellie and she explains about
that it's not a train, it's like this rotating thing.
Long story short. Carl is like, look, I would go
on this rotating thing. It's very risky, but potentially it'll
make things a lot faster, and in the end that's
(25:48):
what they do decide to do. Immani warns him about
the Ghules and she's like, they don't give hardly any
experience when you kill them, so that doesn't seem worth it.
But there's a lot of them coming, and there's one
called a rath School that's in the mix, which we
think might be at like the end of that stage
two of dts, so be careful of those. So he
(26:14):
comes back to the present and Madison is firing Brandy,
and Brandy is like, you don't get to decide that.
I deal with Portia and Madison's like, I'm her senior,
and it's a whole thing it's just exactly the way
that this sort of shit goes.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And the idea that she's like, just we don't need.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Your services anymore. Where are you even getting that? It's
just in her nature to want to do whatever to
make other people around her feel terrible, And it's honestly,
it's very boring but also just evil. And I really
(26:58):
liked Brandy's line you are ziboot not the foot, which
is great. I'm gonna remember that one. So this is
when Carl says via text to uh No Donut sister
Carl via text, she reminds me of somebody, but I
(27:20):
don't know who, and Carl's laughing because he knows exactly who.
She reminds him instantly of Bee's mom. And later on
Donut finally does put it together and she says something
about how the cats that Bee's mom owned were never
very happy, which, considering things that we hear later, is like,
(27:46):
just how terrible she must have been. Considering how shitty
Bee seems, also, it must have been pretty bad. So
they go to six what is it sixty that they're
bringing this lady to, and they're heading there and he's
(28:11):
going up this ladder in Catsha pulls him aside and
it's like, hey, I need to talk to you. So
she explains that she's able to make.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
More eyes.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
With her ability, but they are not super functional, and
she says, long story short, what's going on here is
that I saw Donut sliding something under the train tracks,
(28:44):
and she didn't know that I saw her because I
was using a third eye, like in the back of
my head. So later on, when I told Hecla about
this whole thing, Hecla tried to say that it was
a setup, but I just don't see how that could
be possible, because Donut couldn't have known that I was
able to see her. So she's putting that out right away.
(29:08):
And also, I've gotten to know you pretty well, and
I just don't think you would do.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Things this way.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
But here's what she was hiding. And she takes out
this coupon, and it is a coupon that gives you
a lot of perks if you kill the person whose
name is written on it, and it is something that
you get after you first kill another crawler and you
get your first skull. Later on INMANI says, I think
(29:37):
the first player in a party to kill a person
is the only one to get this coupon book because
other people get skulls later and they didn't get this
coupon book. And the names on the back of all
the coupons are people in your party, so it's essentially
incentivizing you to betray your own party. And everybody gets
(30:05):
one for every member so that you can, like, you know,
have a good long think about who you think it's
worth getting rid of, who's the weak link that you
could really do without. And it's like an awful moment.
But Carl isn't putting it together, and I was like
(30:25):
waiting for him to clock it, and finally Katcha has
to say to him, the thing is, I didn't see
Donut get rid of the other coupon that has my.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Name on it. This is the only one.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
And he's like, oh shit, well maybe she got rid
of it somewhere else, and she's like maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I just really thought I should tell you now, I
mentioned earlier, I wanted to make note of the fact
that it doesn't occur to her to check the description
of Brandy. I wanted to mention this because I found
it very disappointing. I've said a few times how passive
(31:12):
Koscia seems. And it's not like she isn't a team player,
but she has to be pointed in a certain direction
and given instructions, and it just feels a lot of
the time like she doesn't have a whole lot of
initiative or imagination. So I was really judging her for
the fact that it didn't occur to her to just
check the description of the person that she was so
(31:34):
ready to just let sit by the wayside and get.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Eaten by ghouls.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Now, granted, Madison fucking sucks, you know so, but we
didn't know that yet, and also we did wind up
getting a lot of very valuable information out of her,
So yeah, checking the description is pretty fucking important, and
it had me kind of souring on her, But then
(32:00):
we got this spot and I was really turned around
on feeling like I was so glad that she decides
to talk to him about this. It would have been
really understandable if she got totally flipped out and bought
(32:21):
what uh heckla was saying about it being a setup.
I think a lot of people probably would have leaped
to that conclusion, and I would understand it. It wouldn't
even you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't feel
like I would even be mad because it does. That's
the point of these coupons is to sow this discord,
(32:41):
which Carl understands right away, is that they are meant
to drive a wedge between people even if they're not used,
and that's what it's doing. But the fact that Katcha
chooses to communicate won her a lot of points in
my book, because it's just you would think this wouldn't
(33:02):
be a lot to ask, but like it's unfortunately so
much to ask of a lot of people. And it
speaks also to this author not wanting to do the
cheap drama, because not only does she bring this to
Carl and just decide to talk to him about it,
(33:24):
but Carl instantly, in my opinion, leaps to the correct
conclusion about what was happening, which is that Donat was
uncomfortable with having these and was simply trying to get
rid of it because she didn't like having it in
her inventory at all. He relaxes as soon as it's
explained a little bit further what this is. So if
(33:48):
this were a different author who was trying to do
something kind of lazy. All of this would have turned
a corner and been a big piece of drama in
every direction. I was just so relieved that we were
not fucking doing that, because it's inevitably you as a reader. No,
(34:09):
of course, dough Nut's not going to hurt Carl, you know,
it just doesn't feel like I would never ever seriously
consider that. And it's always really frustrating when as a
reader you feel like you're being smarter than your main character,
And so far this author has done this repeatedly, where
Carl has jumped to a conclusion that I have just
(34:32):
come to right away, and it's always very reassuring because
it feels like, at least this dude is I feel like,
on the same page as me. I hate, hate, hate
feeling like I am waiting for a character to catch
up to a conclusion I have already come to.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
It's the most boring thing imaginable.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
So sorry, Michael says, hard to blame Katcha for being
a bit paranoid. Absolutely, yeah, I don't blame her little bit.
And it's a moment of real like courage to me
for her to openly bring this up to him. This
was a risk she was taking even though we know
it's not because we know what's going that like Carl
(35:13):
isn't aware, but like I'm sure she was a little
freaked out having to do this, SARAHM says. Some of
it is also she hasn't really internalized that this is
a game and operates on its own logic. Fully, some
things seem obvious, but they really do require to rethink
how basic things operate. I get the impression Katcha wasn't
really a gamer before this, unlike Carl, who was, so
(35:37):
has the context to accept these game mechanics faster.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I don't dislike that as an explanation, Sarahm. But it
is like fully headcannon, And if the author wanted to
make that clear and make it a result of the
fact that she wasn't a.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Gamer and so like she's just not getting.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
A lot of this, I think that would I would
accept it and it would help. But that's not really
in the text at all. You know, I feel like
I could agree with you, like I could say I
get that impression also, but it isn't explained enough for
(36:15):
it to feel like there's even an acknowledgment from the
author about her not grasping things. You know, if that
were the case, I would wish for that to be
talked about a little bit more specifically. Michael says, I
think Natasha hid on it. In a previous episode, Katya
also got used to letting badass Heckla the Amazon Warrior
(36:38):
Queen handle things while she just coasted. Oh, I forgot that,
I said that, And yeah, because that's kind of you know,
Carl's one coming up with all the ideas now, and
to a degree, like when you're a tank, that's part
of your job, is you just put yourself where you're
told to be put. But she hasn't. She's trying to
embrace being a tank, but it's it's clear that that's
(37:01):
a little difficult for her. So yeah, it's just I
just have gone back and forth on her. And I
liked this moment a lot because it felt like it
gave me something to hold on to about her personality
in more of a definitive way, that showed me how
(37:21):
she would approach a problem and made me feel like,
this is a person who is really trying to use
logic and communication, which I always respect.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
You know, it's just a.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
You wouldn't think it would be so hard to find
and it is so yeah, this entire thing, it's a
it's a wild wrench to throw in the works. And
after this conversation, he tells her like, I'm going to
talk to Dona about it. Don't worry, I'm not going
to tell her you're the one who told me. And
she accepts this clearly is like a little bit twitchy still.
(37:55):
But and then he decides to get in touch with
Imani and it turns out he's behind Dona already got
in touch with Himni, and it's obviously like this is
the one person that they both thought of who had
skulls after their name, that they could talk to and
be like, so, how did you handle this? And I
(38:15):
just really enjoyed finding out that donuts out here talking
to other crawlers and not letting Karl know. I thought
it was an interesting thing to like find out that
there might be some things that she's not comfortable talking.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
To Carl about.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
And one, of course, the whole thing with like the
I just got a skull and I'm having trouble coping
with that. That makes a lot of sense. There's also
a part of me that sort of wonders if it's
not just like she was so close to be and
maybe there's a part of her that missus having a
connection with a woman, you know, maybe that's like an
(38:53):
energy that she's been sort of missing. But Katcha is
right here, and she doesn't go to Katcha. But also
there's a sense of like not really trusting what's going
on there. And so all this to say, I'm not
saying that I found fault with this part of the scene,
but I am saying that I was personally disappointed.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I was so hopeful.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
That after he told Katcha, hey, I'll talk to Donah,
you know, let me just like figure this out. I
was so hopeful he was going to be like, and
since we're putting our cards on the table here, I
have been told to potentially watch out for Hekla trying
(39:38):
to take me out and poach Donut. I don't know
if you know anything about that, but I thought you
ought to, Like, no, I'm aware of it. I was
sort of like thinking, maybe we're just gonna air it
all out right now, you know, and share our like
little suspicions and fears.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
But we don't do that.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
And I'm not mad about it.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Like I said, I was just sort of wondering maybe.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
And it doesn't really go that way, which I'm not
even sure is really a mistake. It might have been
the smart thing to do to just keep that shit
to himself, you know. But I definitely was sort of
feeling like they were kind of on the same level,
where she's coming at him about an associate and the
(40:29):
potential that that associate might be gunning for her. Do
you know anything about it? It really is kind of
the same scenario in a way. So anyway, it just
I was just sort of thinking about it because it
felt like it was very much like on the same level.
Saraphim says, First, you worry he's screwing himself over by
(40:52):
sharing info that really has no downside to sharing. The
expect him to share something that would actually bite him
in the ass if the wrong person finds out sharing
himself over by sharing info that has no downside to sharing. Oh,
are you talking about the train stuff. I wasn't even
I wasn't worried he was screwing himself over. I was
just saying that there are advantages keeping information to yourself,
(41:14):
which is just a fact, you know. Like, there are
a lot of people that are gonna play that way,
but this is like, that's what I'm saying. I one,
I didn't expect him to share, and two, she is
sharing info that could bite her in the ass if
the wrong person finds out. So it's the exact same scenario,
which is why it occurred to me that maybe he
(41:36):
would repay it in kind. You know, she's doing that,
She's taking this risk, so it felt like it would
be kind of a perfect moment to bring it up
and just be like, look, maybe we.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Need to you know.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
And he says later, I feel like she's behaving a
little weirdly and that she senses I'm not treating her
as a full.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Member of the team.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
And I think that part of it is his suspicions
about HECLA are bleeding into the way that he treats Katya.
It's not he says that, it's like possibly just about
we know Katya wants to be with HECLA and will
go back to HECLA when the opportunity arises.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
But I think there's probably more.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
To it than that, because when you are not sure
if you can trust somebody and maybe are actively suspicious
of them. It can't you can't help, but let that
bleed into how you behave around them a little bit,
and whether or not they completely clock why you're acting
that way, they will sense that something's off, you know.
(42:37):
So I feel like that could potentially be part of it.
Is that, like she's just feeling the vibe from you
that you're holding back on her, and maybe after she's
come to you with this info, potentially maybe it's time,
you know, maybe she wouldn't be as an interested in
(43:00):
going back to Hecla. I don't know though, like Hecla
is close enough to Kocha or well, I'm saying Hecklea's
close to Katya.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
We don't know that.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
We know that Kotya depends on Hecla a lot, so
that's different. So it's certainly possible that like maybe I
tell her and she just goes running to Hecla, and
now Heckla's like, oh, well he knows I want to
kill him, I may as well get it over, you
know what I mean. I don't really think that's how
it would go down, but it's you know, possible. But
(43:33):
that's also like the risks she was taking. So yeah, Michael, says,
I think the difference is Katya kind of trusts karl
i' not to screw her over. Karl might trust Kotcha
not to backstab him, but he can't trust her not
to mention it to someone else and the sisters. Yeah,
and this, like that's kind of the question too. If
she did mention it, what would that even?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Do?
Speaker 1 (43:55):
You know? Like it's not like.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
He knows anything for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
He just has his suspicion that was given to him
by who was it Zev that told him this, So
like it might not really change the scenario all that much.
I don't know what would even happen. Oh Dette, thank
(44:21):
you guys. So yeah, I mean, like I said, there's
plenty of risks to it, but it was just on
my mind because it felt like so similar. So anyway,
when he gets in touch with Himani, she explains that
she got rid of her coupont book on the first floor.
(44:42):
She tried to burn it and it wouldn't burn, so
she just had to leave it behind, which the actual
coupon says, if you have this coupon in your inventory,
So that worries me because that means that potentially, if
somebody else were to come across it, that person can
use her her.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Whole book of coupons.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
As long as she hit it, well, it's likely nobody
will come across it. And obviously that was the thing
that Heckla was saying Katya was being set up for,
was that you're being given this coupon to see if
you're willing to.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Kill Karl for all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
You know, So anyway, let's see. I think he asks
about whether or not he'd be allowed to join up
with the daughters, whether men are allowed, and that there
was like this one particular man that Katya is describing,
like he we wound up having to fight him and
(45:36):
he was not allowed to join not because he was
a man, but because he was a creep, which I
kind of like, it's just going to be inevitable, you know,
when you've got a group of women, dudes just do
not know how to act. And I could understand that
the fact that all of them are women, it doesn't
(45:57):
feel like that's a coincidence. But what it comes down
to is her saying, I think Hecla would want to
talk to you first because she thinks you're reckless, but
she really likes donut so like, that's as close to
confirmation of what we were told as we get as
we get. So let's see, let's see. This is when
(46:23):
he's talking about Katcha. It was clear that she wanted
and then I liked Katya. I liked her a whole lot.
She was painfully quiet, but she was so damn earnest,
and I was sort of feeling like I liked her
a whole lot. I was like trying to sus is
this like kind of a romantic vibe? But I don't
really think so. And he's sort of just debating with
(46:46):
himself what to do and remembers just saying, why can't
people just be loyal back in the day when he
was talking to be about how she was going to
sell donut and how Bee just didn't understand why he
was upset because she saw donut as an item of
(47:12):
value and not as a living thing. And look, I
am not one of those people who thinks that rehoming
a pet is a cardinal sin.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
There are some folks out.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
There that really go hard on this, like absolutist. If
you took in an animal, they are your responsibility and
handing them off to somebody else is always deeply selfish
and hugely traumatic and YadA YadA.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
I don't buy that shit.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I think that sometimes it's the responsible thing to do,
and it can be just as hard for the owner
as the animal, but ultimately the animal will be fine.
You know. Yeah, they might miss you, they might wonder
what's going on. That's part of the hardship of having
animals that don't speak English and understand things the way
that we do is that you can't always communicate everything
(48:05):
to them.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
But by no.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Means does that mean that like, you shouldn't do this
if you are unable to care for your pet adequately
and so like, on that level, I can get very
like irritated when people are like I can't believe they
rehomed there.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
I'm just like, get over yourself.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
However, this is a whole different ballgame because it's not
just rehoming. It's selling and for breeding and for shows
for earning money, and that is just some shit that
I always find gross. You know, this is just, without fail,
I think, is nasty work. So this whole like, you know,
(48:49):
everything that we have learned about b I just keep
being like, why did you like her? Like there's there's
been like no moments of thinking bad about b and
me feeling like, Okay, I see it now, I can't.
Like there's one moment where she's explaining why she likes Carl,
(49:11):
and it's the bare minimum of like her being nice
about him and his capabilities to her mom, and otherwise
it's just been garbage over and over. And this for
me would be an absolute deal breaker. If somebody acted
like this about a pet, I'm not staying with them.
That I wouldn't get involved with somebody who was doing
(49:33):
like show animals to begin with, but this would definitely be.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
The end of the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
So eventually they get to Stop sixty, which is allegedly
this huge station with dorms and apartments and stores. It's
like I was imagining, sort of the central hub of
like an airport.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
And they get there and it's nothing.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
It's nothing, and Madison is insisting it's a mistake and
won't leave because she depends on the fact that trained
security will eventually come along and save her. And this
is the thing with people like this is that they
do trust the system in a way that is so unwarranted,
(50:22):
you know, they just it's infuriating, it's warranted like to
a degree, because they haven't been personally victimized by the
system in the way a lot of other people have.
So you can see why they aren't actively afraid of
said system, but they haven't begun to put the pieces
together that the reason other people are victimized is because
(50:44):
it's part of a larger, overall system of oppression, and
that ultimately you will be part of that, you know.
So this whole thing is just very funny because eventually
he just says, all right, well, fuck off, And as
they're leaving, that's when Donut is like, oh my god,
(51:05):
I remember her who she reminds me of Miss Beatrice's mom.
None of the cats there were very happy. I could
tell she didn't treat them as well as Miss Beatrice
treated me. The comparison didn't seem so funny anymore. Yeah,
(51:25):
that's where.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Bee was headed, man, it really was.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
So then we go to chapter nineteen, and this is
wild if we get some updates from various people about
what's going on. Immani and uh, he says, Ammani and crew,
because I keep forgetting that it's not just her and Ellie.
(51:51):
There's people with them. But they wind up somewhere where
they're like able to kill a bunch of things, and
they're being like, there's a lot of them and it's
a bit overwhelming, but they're managing it. Bautista says the
Cragad wasn't a boss at all, but was a multi
armed snake woman NPC that had attempted to hypnotize the crawlers,
(52:12):
but Bautista had somehow neutralized her ability to cast the spell.
I used my last evoka NYE, the purple variant. I
had no idea what that meant, so I'm wondering if
that is going to come up later. And then Donut
and I headed to the Desperado Club to talk to
(52:33):
any remaining crawlers while KaiA spent some time at her
makeup table. And again, one of these two rock monsters
has bought a protective spell and it's adorable. I just
love the two of them taking this all so seriously.
There's a moment where Donut is talking about going into
(52:55):
Penis Parade and then mentions a guy who used to
come over when Karl wasn't home and look at himself
in the mirror and put one of Carl's socks on
his dong and swing it around and just donut you
have to know what you're saying. At this point, I
refuse to believe that she doesn't get the significance, like,
come on, lady, chill out a little bit. And then
(53:19):
when they step inside, there's a guy at the bar
and they recognize him right away and it turns out to.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Be Frank.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
And he's only level seventeen and Carl is like, what
is happening? And immediately I was like, ah, yeah, Bro's
given up. He's not really like playing anymore. And he
doesn't like react because, you know, he says something about
how finally I'm gonna get my revenge, and I kind
(53:50):
of thought because he and his wife weren't working together anymore.
I was sort of debating, like, is it possible that
he actually wants revenge on his wife? Maybe this is
all being phrased so as to act like I'm taking
revenge on you, but it's really that I'm trying to
(54:13):
get back at my bitch wife. It's not actually his
wife either, by the way, because it turns out that
they had been like split up already. So he recounts
what was going on. I'm trying to find the part
(54:33):
where he starts telling that story about his brother in law.
Let's see, I told him the truth and they ditched
me at the end of the floor. I didn't want
to go down, but I'm a coward, and I did
what cowards do. I followed the easiest path, and I
descended stupid. I landed on a train with a bunch
of new folks, but they didn't want anything to.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Do with me either.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
These skulls make it hard for people to trust you,
which yeah it. And he then says, how I'm going
to get my revenge is I'm going to give you
a present And he pulls out this ring and puts
it on the bar, and it's green glass with a
(55:19):
red jewel. Enchanted night Worm's Ring of Divine Suffering. This
magical ring can be one of the most formidable items
in the dungeon. If utilized properly, this ring's wielder can
grow exponentially in strength, but beware if poorly wielded, this
(55:40):
ring will kill you quicker than an exploding rage elemental.
The wearer of this ring receives the following benefits plus
five percent to all stats the marked for death skill.
You will be presented with a list of crawlers within
your map's range. Only crawlers with one hundred percent health
will be selectable. Once a crawler is chosen, they will
(56:01):
be marked. It takes thirty seconds for the mark to
set and become active. When a crawler with an active
mark dies, no matter the cause, you will receive a
permanent plus one stat point to whatever that crawler's current
highest stat is. This plus one increases by one for
every three marks you kill. Once a mark is set,
(56:22):
you may no longer heal, So choose your marks carefully,
don't let them get away. And then there's a bunch
of different rules about what floors have, how much cool down.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
And YadA YadA.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
Too much for me to get into. I'm sure at
some point this will be relevant, but right now it's not,
so I'm ignoring it. And Carl is pretty much like,
even if you are somebody who's like down to kill crawlers,
the ratio of risk to reward here does not feel
worth it.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
Like it just you know.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
So he's like looking at this and kind kind of
trying to figure out like why this would even be
very valuable, and Frank explains, I got it for fighting
a family member while I entered the dungeon, a legendary
that's the spirit box, my ex brother in law, not
even a real family member, but the dungeon didn't see
(57:19):
it that way. I choked him out and then we
got attacked by Ratkins and they killed him while he
was still unconscious. And then finally Carl realizes, oh my god,
we saw IVI get injured and for some reason, they
(57:39):
didn't heal her. And he understands she was wearing this
ring and they had marked me so she couldn't heal.
And he's like, you let her use the ring, and
Frank is.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
Like, I didn't let her. I made her.
Speaker 1 (57:56):
Because she wouldn't fight, so she wasn't going up any levels.
So this was the compromise. And Mags would tell her
who to pick, and you know, this was the only
thing that we could think of to get her to
be stronger. And I can't imagine he sees that Karl
(58:20):
is judging him for this. He suddenly erupted in anger.
You don't understand what it means to be responsible for somebody.
You don't have a kid in here with you. You'd
understand what that responsibility means, what a weight that is
on your shoulders, and when you fail, it's like being crushed,
(58:42):
constantly crushed, only you don't die, and the pain never stops.
It just keeps coming and coming. And honestly, I can't
even imagine choosing this was insane on his part, but
(59:04):
also having a child with you that you're trying to
protect in this place, like, I don't what do you
even you know, Like, yeah, especially if she's refusing to fight,
which I don't blame her for.
Speaker 2 (59:20):
I'm not mad at her for that, but like, what
the fuck are you supposed to do?
Speaker 1 (59:25):
And this is just really really heartbreaking because I definitely
judge him, but I don't think I'm judging him as
harshly as Carl is.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
I feel like Carl is like a lot more.
Speaker 1 (59:42):
I'm just I am so keenly aware of who their
game guide was and the way they were told this
game is played that it's really difficult for me to
like completely blame them for the way they approached everything.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
But then there's, you know, the.
Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Aspect of the fact that, like they were both law enforcement,
which is often a type of person that prays on
other people, And so it's a weird combo of like,
did you get the game guide that you got due
(01:00:24):
to the system knowing what kind of person you are.
Is that at all part of the factor that decides
who your guide is.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Because that doesn't feel accidental. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Yeah, And Carl says, this man didn't deserve for his
story to be told, not after what he did. In
a way, people like him were worse than the syndicate
and the aliens who destroyed us. He was one of us,
and he turned against his own, which is like how
I feel about cops, you know, like this is really
it is that kind of energy. And he explains that
(01:01:06):
a vet had run away and got picked up by
the sheriff and his brother in law was the deputy
and he was his ex wife's little brother. He blamed
me for all of the vet's issues. He called us
to come get her. It pulled me off a surveillance.
We were in the parking lot screaming at each other
(01:01:26):
when it happened and a vet ran into the tunnel.
Maggie tried to run in after her, and I pushed her,
which made her brother mad, And yeah, why'd.
Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
You push her? Like what was that?
Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
It should make him mad? Why are you shoving her?
What is that doing? And I love when Doughnut chimes
in and she's just glaring at Frank from Sledge's shoulder,
and they both have pink boas on and the Sledge
has a cowboy hat, and there's the button that says,
(01:02:01):
I like my sausages extra large penis Parade Desperado Club
floor one.
Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
So it ends with Carl asking did Maggie ever take
that legendary potion that would max out the fine Crawler skill?
And he says that was where our fight started, because
I wanted to sell this ring, and I wanted to
sell the potion and then we could buy gear and
train properly. But all she wanted was to kill you.
(01:02:32):
I don't know if she's taken it or not. Our
guide suggested she wait till she picked a class that
would let the skill rise to twenty, not fifteen, but
I don't know if she did. I suddenly thought of
those PvP coupons. I wondered if Maggie had one. I
wondered if she'd received extra rewards for killing her own daughter.
(01:02:55):
Oh can you imagine you guys? You kill your own
kid to put them out of their miss and then
you get like a reward box for it, and considering
the tone of the AI, it would be so hateful,
the whole description of it. It would be awful. A
combination of killing a family member, killing a party member,
(01:03:18):
killing your own young I mean, you'd probably get like
a bunch of weirdo achievements too. It.
Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Oh god, it would be so gross.
Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
And the fact that she like blames Carl, it's just
it's one of those things that makes no real sense,
but is how human beings work. It's super illogical. You know,
you guys just tried to attack Carl, and he knew
you'd be after him, and so he was defending himself,
which Frank himself acknowledges. But she doesn't see it this way.
(01:03:53):
And it's like, none of this would have happened if
you didn't use this sicko ring.
Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Nobody made you do.
Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
You decided that this was like the most efficient thing,
and you picked the target. And that's probably what's making
her crazy. Is it's easier to blame Carl for it
than it is to admit it's all her fault, which
it is so sucks to suck, I guess. And Carl
(01:04:25):
comes to the conclusion like he's not going to try
and come after Frank.
Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
This dude is out of the game and not a threat.
Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
And Frank watches him put the ring on and just
says vengeance his mind. And that is the end of
chapter nineteen. So yeah, that was a really satisfying reveal.
I had completely forgotten about the fact that it looked
like she could be healed and they didn't heal her.
Completely forgotten about that, And it was a very like
(01:04:57):
well done, well executed, you did pun intended uh twist
on everything, And you know, I you guys, I've been
thinking a lot because I've talked about this like project
I'm working on with a friend where we're going to
be telling this big story over time, and how much
(01:05:18):
there is to like keep track of. And I wonder
how this author keeps track of everybody's like race and
class and what's in each of their inventories and the
types of things that they would get because of the
class they are or the type of like approach to
combat that they have. It just there must he must
(01:05:38):
have like a database that is so huge and loaded
with stuff. I was just thinking about it the other
day because there's a lot of moments in these books,
like the second books where something that he collected into
his inventory in the first book gets brought back up again,
and I'm just like, man, this has got to be
a real like either he keeps great track or he
(01:06:03):
has like a Beata reader who is this is one
of their things they love to do. There are people
out there who love doing this sort of organizational stuff,
you know. So maybe he found somebody and he's just
like you figured it out. I don't know, but yeah,
I just I always think about that with when you
start getting into something like this, where a lot of
the skills and everything you have to keep track of
(01:06:23):
like what level everybody's at, what perks they're getting from
what objects and items, and constantly readjusts that based on
whatever they have equipped and YadA YadA, Like it's got
to be pretty complicated after a point. So anyway, I
really really liked this section. There's just a lot of
interesting stuff being brought into the equation. And I am
(01:06:46):
looking forward to his conversation with Cupcake about the PvP
coupons because she's just like I want her to confide
in him. I want her to be honest with him,
and I hope that she did get rid of Katcha's
coupon already, but I have a feeling that she probably
kept it. I don't know, probably, we'll see, all right,
(01:07:09):
I'm going to wrap up. Thank you guys again so
much for listening. Thank you to Michael for commissioning this one.
Appreciate you all, and until next time to the Loo motherfuckers.
(01:07:49):
That was an unspoiled Network podcast.
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