June 2, 2013 • 30 mins
Sunday, June 2nd 2013. This episode is even closer to the vision that I have for this show, but have more improvements to come. You will notice that I improved the audio production and am now using my Sure SM7B microphone and Mackie 802-VLZ3 mixer. This change from episode one is dramatic. My goal here is not do a monologue show, but to have some guests sprinkled in to add some varied opinions and to get listeners more involved in the show. The topic this week stays focused on my passion and that is the medium of “Podcasting”. The Topics This Week:
1) Top 13 Things that “Really” Build a Podcast Audience
2) EFF Legal Defense fundraising $50K+ to Fight a “Podcast Patent Troll” Here are links to things mentioned in the show: The EFF Save Podcasting effort is here, the link to submit and see submitted prior art is here Thank you to Michael Wolf and JD Sutter for contributing with comments that you will hear in this episode. Here is a link to the article written by JD Sutter. Here is a link to the “Speaking of That” podcast hosted by Robert Keeme of which I played a snippet. Thanks guys for the nice comments. Please feel free to give me feedback on this show to: rob at robgreenlee dotcom or twitter @robgreenlee . Leave some of your thoughts here in the comments and I will respond to them in next week episode.
1) Top 13 Things that “Really” Build a Podcast Audience
2) EFF Legal Defense fundraising $50K+ to Fight a “Podcast Patent Troll” Here are links to things mentioned in the show: The EFF Save Podcasting effort is here, the link to submit and see submitted prior art is here Thank you to Michael Wolf and JD Sutter for contributing with comments that you will hear in this episode. Here is a link to the article written by JD Sutter. Here is a link to the “Speaking of That” podcast hosted by Robert Keeme of which I played a snippet. Thanks guys for the nice comments. Please feel free to give me feedback on this show to: rob at robgreenlee dotcom or twitter @robgreenlee . Leave some of your thoughts here in the comments and I will respond to them in next week episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to My Digital Life Show with Rob Greenley for
June second, twenty thirteen. I'm Rob Greenley, and thank you
for downloading or just clicking play to listen to this
show from my website at Rob Greenley dot com from
all over the world, and I welcome all of our
listeners from every part of the globe listening to this show.
(00:23):
I know it's a new show, so we're probably not
reaching that many people around the world quite yet, but
I'm definitely going to keep you in mind people listening
outside of the United States. This is episode three. This
is kind of a new project for me. It's spent
a lot of time since I've had my own show.
I've been doing podcasts for other people for a long
time and on other people shows. This is my entry
(00:45):
back into doing my own show. I used to do
the show called web Talk Radio, and I ended production
of that back in two thousand and six, so this
is a newer adventure for me, even though I've been
around podcasting for a long time. Like I said, I
certainly appreciate you downloading this. It takes a lot of
dedication and commitment to get access to a show like this,
(01:09):
and like I said, I really appreciate it. In this show,
I'm going to cover just a couple of topics. I
try and keep the show relatively short, but the topics
this week i'm going to cover are the top thirteen
things that really build a podcast audience. The Electric Frontier
Foundation has launched a legal defense fund to raise fifty
(01:32):
thousand plus dollars to fight a podcast patent troll out
there that seems to be causing a lot of angst
amongst the podcaster community. And I also wanted to mention too,
I'm not going to cover just podcasting topics on this
show forever. I'm going to try and vary it up
a little bit, but my passion in my life does
(01:55):
center around podcasting, so you're going to see a lot
of that type of discussion on this program. I can
be reached at Rob at Rob Greenley dot com and
that's the last name is spell g r e E
N L e E. I certainly want to hear from
you and get your feedback on this program, and I
can also be reached on Twitter at Rob Greenley. The
(02:15):
show is now on iTunes and it's in the Windows
Phone podcast area. I've added it to Stitcher and I'm
going to get it on the in Tune platform. I'm
working our way through it. And for those of you
that don't know, I actually manage the podcasts for Windows
Phone and Zoom at Microsoft so and been around podcasting since.
(02:38):
Actually I started doing a broadcast radio show back in
nineteen ninety nine and took it out as a podcast
in two thousand and four. So this is a little
bit of a different format for me, being a solo show.
I never really thought that I would do a solo
show like this, So I'm definitely going to get other
people involved in the show, do some conversations with others
(03:00):
that can bring some expertise that I may not have,
and some perspectives that will add some variability to this
program to add more value to you. I also want
to let you know I co host the New Media
Show every Saturday mornings at nine am Pacific Standard time
and noon Eastern Time with Todd Cochran, who is the
CEO of Raw Voice, Blueberry power Press plug in for
(03:23):
word Press, and you can catch that show live. It's
actually live video streamed on YouTube. You stream and live stream,
and this is the url to go watch that show
every Saturday it's Live dot Geeknewcentral dot Com. I have
a fun time doing that show. I just got done
doing that show just this past Saturday. We had a
(03:46):
great guest on from StreamingMedia dot Com, mister Dan Rayburn,
who's executive vice president that manages all of the Streaming
Media West and East trade shows. Dan and I go
way back to the early days of streaming. I didn't
mention this on the show today with him, but we
did a show called the Streaming Media Show. So I
(04:06):
did a very early streaming show with Dan and actually
hosted on my servers. You know, back in the early
days of my own show, I had I had two
data centers with co located servers that I streamed other
people shows as well as my own show. Back then,
I really felt like I had to do that because
I had real servers as well as I had Windows
(04:28):
Media servers. Because most of my listening my audience was
listening to my show in two places on broadcast radio.
I was on about fifteen radio stations and then also
off of streaming from the Windows Media Player. I just
I got most of my online listeners via streaming, which
was really interesting. And it seems like we're kind of
(04:49):
coming around back to that again, let's dive into the
core topics that I wanted to cover on the show today,
and most of what I'm going to do here, there's
going to be probably at component to this off of
my blog, and this one is certainly one of those.
In it was a pretty popular article that I wrote
on the blog fairly recently. It wasn't something that I
(05:11):
have just written here in the last few weeks or
anything like that, but it has some really solid points
that can help any podcaster that may be listening to
the show. And I'm pretty sure that most of this
audience for this program are probably podcasters and new media creators.
What are the top thirteen things that really build a
podcast audience? I made this list just from a really
(05:33):
high level perspective just to kind of give some some
really high level tips to podcasters or new media creators
to help build an audience. And it's a very difficult
thing right now, and I think that what we all
have to do is kind of back up and going
back to the fundamentals. You know, I played basketball for
many years and one of the big things that I
learned from playing a high level of competitive sports was
(05:56):
that at the foundation of any outstanding player or competitor
at any level, whether it's business or sports, is that
you have to have your fundamentals down, your basics covered first.
And I think that is oftentimes lost in the aggressive
pursuit of trying to build an audience for a podcast,
(06:18):
is that you get kind of caught up in the
hype of what the next shiny thing is, and oftentimes
podcasters will neglect the boring fundamentals that need to be
exercised on a regular basis to keep your foundation built
to build your success. And I think that these thirteen
(06:40):
things are pretty much time tested. I did most of
these things on a consistent basis with my own radio
show and have seen these things work with many other
content providers over many years of doing this, and I've
been managing podcast catalogs for my god now it's it's
been probably over eight years now, so I've been able
(07:03):
to build a career around podcasting. That's that's rather unique
and rare out there, and I totally realize that and
I really appreciate it. So let me run down the
list of the thirteen things, And like I said, this
can be found on my blog as well. Number one
is great audio and video quality. And maybe this is
just you know, this is the number one thing that's
(07:26):
top of the list because it is something that we
all need to strive for and get better at. And
I know, even with this show, I did my last
recording with a kind of like a handheld digital recorder.
I was not happy with the way that sounds, though
it sounded very crisp and and but you know, you
(07:46):
spend a couple hundred dollars on a portable handheld recorder
and there's some trade offs for that, right, So I've
gone back to using my more expensive recording system here
that's in my my office, and that's the same pretty
much the same system that I use to do all
my guesting on other people's podcasts. And as you probably
(08:08):
can tell, between the recording of episode two and the
recording of episode three, you're probably noticing a pretty significant
difference in the audio quality because I am using pretty
expensive broadcast quality radio microphone right now. The sure, the
SM seven B MIC. That's a fairly popular mic in podcasting.
(08:30):
But great audio and video quality is extremely important, I
think to build and sustain an audience. And number two
is that the content needs to be informative or comedy,
or it's got to have some aspect that's fun. So
it depends on what your genre is. It just needs
to be compelling that oftentimes comes from a certain amount
(08:52):
of passion, knowledge and personality. But what I really hope
to do in this show is an example of that
is offered great value as far as the topics, the
value of the information that shared, just based on the
years and years of experience that I have in this
space and can help others to be successful too. And
I'm also going to use this show as an example
(09:14):
as well. And there's things that I certainly am working
on to improve on and take this show and do
all the things from this thirteen list as well, and
oftentimes it takes time to do that. Number three is
and from my perspective, running an aggregator network, compelling and
interesting cover art or album art, depending on how you
(09:37):
want to describe it is probably it belongs, probably even
higher than number three, but it is so important because
it is the first thing that your audience sees before
they decide whether or not they want to subscribe or
even just check out an episode. And then the other
aspect of that too, is I've noticed over the years
when I've refreshed the at it's not that you have
(10:01):
to dramatically change your cover arts. If you just do
a refresh of it, maybe it's one thing to think
about it is that it's a progression of improvement. And
that's how I would look at your album art. I've
seen shows that had questionable album art do okay, you know,
and have medium success, but when they went to a
next level of quality in their their cover art, I've
(10:22):
seen a significant increase in their their audience and engagement
and the perception of their program jumped up dramatically. And now, granted,
cover art is a very subjective thing, so I would
just recommend that you you plan for and be thinking
about ways that you can improve your album art cover
art on an ongoing basis, and then as you get
(10:44):
those ideas just on a periodic basis, just do a refresh,
you know, And it's it's worth the investment. It's also
worth getting somebody that's that's really a professional graphic artist
to actually do that. And I was going to get
a link to some resources you as a podcaster can
tap into to maybe take advantage of that. Number four
(11:06):
is being very clear in the name and the series
descriptions of your show. I would say that the cover
art and your name and description of your show are
the three most important things that you need to make
sure are covered. The fifth one on the list is
have your show made available on as many aggregator platforms
(11:27):
as you can. And that's what I was alluding to earlier,
is that I'm on this path of getting this show
out to all of the distribution platforms that are out there,
and there's a lot of them out there that people
just neglect to get into, and one of them is
a network called tune In. I would say that getting
your podcasts into tune in dot com should be a
(11:47):
high priority because as you look into the future, especially
if you're doing audio podcasting, getting your show into platforms
that are heading towards the CAR, I think are very important,
and so as you think about your online syndication strategy,
those are things to consider. Right is where are the
trends moving towards? And I would say that the trends
are moving towards easier user experiences for consuming audio content
(12:11):
that comes off of the Web and the Internet. In
the CAR itself now granted, a lot of people, and
most people are probably going to be listening to their
audio content through their phones into their car stereo systems
or their car Bluetooth kind of scenarios, but be thinking
about the next generation distribution platforms, and Stitcher certainly lives
(12:32):
in that world as well. There's other companies that are
coming that haven't been announced yet that will also be
living in that world as well. And who knows, we
could see a service like Pandora or Spotify or any
of these other music networks wind up adding audio podcasts
to their collection of content. So us as content providers
(12:54):
and podcasters need to really start thinking about those next
generation platforms. You may even consider, depending on what your
show is going and approaching a radio station and taking
your show on broadcast. It may make sense for some
of you guys to consider doing that and looking at
(13:17):
ways that you might be able to do that in
your local market. So I would definitely consider that. Moving
on the next one, number six, major parts of your
show need to include audience engagement and contribution. And as
you'll hear in this show a little bit later on
in the program, I'm going to have I'm going to
talk about people's comments. About my first couple of shows
(13:38):
and actually play an audio clip. So get your audience engaged.
And I definitely want to reach out to people listening
to this and feel free to reach out to me.
I can be reached at Rob at Rob Greenley dot com,
I can be reached in Twitter, I can be reached
in a lot of different places. Feel free to contribute
your thought. And like I said, I'm going to be
(13:59):
getting guests on the show and would love to get
it maybe like an MP three from you that can
be played on this show. So if you wanted to
ask a question and I can talk about that, I
know a fair amount of shows do this. We'd love
to create that conversation with you and to talk about
these topics at a much deeper level because I think
(14:19):
that other people listening to those questions could benefitment from
those topics as well. So anyway, audience engagement in contribution
can really help make this show more valuable to you.
So the next one here is meet your audience in
the real world and do that as much as you can.
There's a variety of ways you can do that, but
going to conferences, going to different events, you can have meetups,
(14:42):
you can have get your audience together. I mean, if
you're on a trip somewhere, put it out there in
your show that you're going to be in such and
such city. Set up a time to go to a
bar or a restaurant or somewhere like that, and invite
people to come join you and meet you. It's just
a great way to get a deeper engagement with your audience.
And I know a lot of podcasters, at least the
(15:03):
big celebrity podcasters, are doing that a lot by doing
live shows, like they'll they'll go in and they'll get
a venue in a city and they'll they'll actually record
their podcast in front of a live audience. And that's
a terrific way to meet your audience in the real world.
And you're seeing big name celebrity podcasters do this very successfully,
and it's growing their show and their audience and their
(15:27):
connection with their audience, and that's very powerful. And there
actually a lot of them are making big money from
that because they're selling tickets to actually get in. So
the next one here is I'm guests on other people's
podcasts and radio shows and TV shows. If you're a
topic expert, get out there and put yourself out there,
build relationships with journalists, become a resource to those journalists
(15:52):
and those radio show hosts and those TV show hosts
to help them create content, and thus you're reaching that
audience that can maybe come over and consume your show
as well. So I think those are very important things
to think about too. And also create some written words,
activity in your blog or join other forums topic discussion
(16:14):
areas in your genre and your topic area. And I
think it's very very important to building connection with new
members that could be potentially listening to your show. And
number ten is being very consistent with the production and
fairly consistent with the duration. Now, granted this show is
(16:34):
going to vary, probably pretty wildly on the duration. Part
is I'm already at twenty minutes now and I'm not
even through all my topics here yet, So anyway, i
tend to be a little long winded, but I'm going
to keep it value packed though if I can so
making your show on a regular basis, publishing it on
the same day, and being fairly consistent in the length,
(16:58):
though that can vary a lot. That's one of the
big things about podcasting that make it fantastic is that
you don't have to conform to any you like show
clock that kind of thing that is kind of in
the radio world. Number eleven is join a network of
other podcasters that can aggregate audiences. That can thus if
(17:19):
you have ambitions to monetize your show, to get advertisers
in your show. So I think it's a good strategy.
I think it's working for a lot of podcasters to
do that. And I think that's a big uber trend
that we're seeing around podcasting, is the rolling up and
the aggregation of audiences in genres. It's easier for that
(17:41):
network to approach big advertisers to pay content providers to
produce content in this area. So I think it has
a lot of benefits. Number twelve is work really hard
to be known locally in your community as an expert
and doing a show, and it's probably getting more difficult
now because media online media is so popular now there's
(18:03):
so many people doing it. Getting out there and putting
yourself out there locally is a way to stand out too,
because not everybody does that, and try and gain some
local media attention for what you're doing and as an expert.
And that kind of goes back to getting on radio
and TV shows, it's a similar kind of concept. And
then number thirteen is post your episodes to Twitter, Facebook,
(18:24):
Google Plus and use popular keywords to describe your programs
in your blog or on your website, depending on how
you want to call it. It's really key. I think
it's a little old school, but I think Twitter and
Facebook are going to become increasingly more important to getting
(18:44):
content like podcasts out discoverable. So that's my top thirteen lists.
If you have some other ideas that have been successful,
please send them to me and I will mention them
on the next show of successful strategies that you've seen
that have worked to build an audience. I don't have
all the answers. I know that the community that could
(19:06):
potentially be listening to this show has tried a lot
of different things, and I definitely want to want to
share that it's all for the betterment of podcast communities
that we all share and share our strategies because not
all of us are competing with each other. So anyway,
I'm going to move on to the next topic, and
that's the battle of the Electronic Frontier Foundation to go
(19:30):
after a US patent holder for podcasting and their fundraising
effort that they just had just over the last couple
of days, where they've raised over fifty thousand dollars from
over nine hundred supporters to fight this podcast patent troll.
And it's kind of a derogatory term. I don't necessarily
like the term troll because I think it has a
(19:53):
much more negative connotation than probably is really warranted here.
Any company that owns a past and is certainly within
their legal rights the patent. The US Patent Office issues
patents through very stringent kind of consideration. Though I think
this podcasting patent from personal audio it can be very
(20:17):
harmful to a medium like this, and so I support
the effort to challenge the podcast patent and I contributed
some funds myself here over the last couple of days
to help support the Electronic Frontier Foundation and their effort
to challenge this podcast pattern. And there's been others like
(20:38):
the Berkman Center the Cyber Law Clinic have also joined
with them in the effort to challenge this. It has
the potential to damage a upstart medium like podcasting, and
I'm not sure that there's really a benefit to this
company doing this other than to basically get some money.
(21:00):
They are not a participant in this community at any level.
They haven't created any technology that they are really defending here.
They just came up with the idea of a very
broad concept of this back in nineteen ninety six, and
then more recently in twenty twelve, they had an amendment
that was added to the patent that was approved that
(21:22):
covers kind of the podcasting process. So they're in the
middle of going after or sending out letters and to
contentb writers, I mean big content writers like CBS and
NBC and mister Adam Carolla and the Discovery Network with
the house Stuff works folks. And I've heard that there's
other people that have gotten letters too. I don't believe
(21:43):
that any of these have gone to court yet, so
we shall see. But anyway, I just wanted to give
kind of a general thought and I'll put some links
to this. I hope that it gets successfully challenged. We
shall see, though, So anyway, I also submit a prior
art suggestion, though it may appear to be a little
(22:03):
bit out of left field. It is difficult to find
a prior art prior to nineteen ninety six for this,
because frankly, nothing of this really existed a whole lot
back then. Though there are some prior art that I've seen.
There is a website that I will link to that
is asking for prior art to contest this patent, and
(22:26):
there appears to be quite a bit of stuff in there,
and I did contribute. Like I said, a comment in
there about the File Transfer Protocol FTP might be a
good prior art example against this patent because the FTP
protocol is very similar to podcasting in how it technically works.
At least that's my opinion. It may not pass the
(22:49):
muster of any kind of legal challenge, but I put
it out there anyway to kind of give a different
perspective that the FTP protocol was established back in nineteen
eighty five, so it's been around a very long time,
but it basically does the same thing. It's the basics
are ordered files being either manually or automatically transferred over
(23:12):
the Internet between computer devices with storage capability. So that
could be media files, it could be you know, text files,
It could be a lot of a lot of different
types of files. But that is the case with podcasting
as well, so it is kind of a you know,
ordered file is could be you know the episodes of
a show, right, So anyway, I also put a link
(23:35):
to that resource too, and I will add that to
my blog post at Rob Greenley dot com. So let's uh,
let's kind of move towards the last part of the show.
I have a few comments on last week's episode that
came in the last week's show was is podcasting the
(23:57):
same as radio? Was the question? And if you haven't
listened to the episode, go back and check it out.
I did hear a podcast that commented on my comments,
so I always like to have that. We're a podcast
that comments on the topics of another podcast, and we'll
do that as much as I can. I really encourage
(24:18):
podcasters to comment about my thoughts here and I will
play those comments back. And let's uh, let's do that.
The show is uh speaking of that, and this podcast
is hosted by Robert Kimi, and let's let's listen.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Last week about is podcasting radio? Basically?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Is it? Is it?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Internet radio? And the guy I can't remember his name,
I feel terrible, but he's the uh. He's like the
podcast guy from Microsoft. He gets all the podcasts into Zoom.
He finds out about him, he talks to podcasters. He
gets them all into the Zoom Store, so people who
have Microsoft you know, Windows phone and all that, they
can easily subscribe to these podcasts. And he's a pretty
cool guy. And I'll put his I'll put a link
(25:01):
to his blog in his podcast in the show notes.
I just can't remember his name right now, but you know,
his answer was, no, it's not And he even said
things like, you know, this is a podcast. Do whatever
you want. You don't have to do the traditional thing
of you know, having a little jingle when you come
back in or have it. You know, it's not like that.
(25:22):
You don't have to have that. You don't have to
have those stupid format things like you play a little
music and then suddenly you're listening to blah blah blah.
Well people know what they're listening to because they loaded
it into their freaking device.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
And that's what podcasts. When podcasts came out, that's what
it was about, bucking the system, doing something different, getting
breaking away from traditional radio. That's what it was. I mean,
if anybody says different, I want to punch them in
the news, because it was about doing your own thing.
(25:53):
What we did as podcasters, all of us you included.
You know, we we do things that are still kind
of radio. We try to do it at least we
put in music, like like we all have music at
the beginning of our shows because hey, that's the way
you do it, that's the way it was. I don't
have it on this one. You know what, I'm gonna
have to start listening to the beginning of the show
because I didn't notice that.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
No, there will be nothing.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
There'll be nothing just because you're going to buck the
system in within the system.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
No, it's just I don't have I'm not going to
put it in unless I have something good, Like I'm
not going to go out and get pod safe music
to put in there. What I would like to do
is get Brian Page to do it, but I can't.
You know, I'm not made of money. So I mean,
he's a professional. He requires payment in order to write
bring us a custom song.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
And yeah, and I think that if don't do it
just you know, like, don't do it just because you
have to, you know what I mean. You don't feel
like you have to, Like you said right now, you don't.
You don't have the money to do it.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
But I don't think for this one because you do
this for free.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
This is this is you don't get paid to.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Not only that, this one is my personal This is
just this is like a personal thing. It's me talking
to someone else and never once have I ever called
you up on boxer or whatever, and suddenly music plays
and then we can have a conversation.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
I want to say thank you to Robert and his
co host for the nice comments about my thoughts on
his podcasting the same as radio. Those guys went into
a little bit more detail later in their program about
this topic, but I just wanted to play a snippet
from the show. They can play snippets from my show
(27:28):
if they choose to too. I want this to be
a very open scenario for all of us to exchange
information with our audiences on what other people's thoughts are
and this is an example of that. So we also
had a few other text comments that were posted to
the Rob Greenley dot com blog. And Michael Wolfe, who
is in the middle of doing what is called the
(27:50):
podcast project. He's a local guy in the Seattle area
here who wrote an article for Forbes covering the podcast space.
He has his own podcast it's called Next Market and
it's at next market dot co and you can follow
He's talk with some of the leading minds in podcasting today.
I've actually was on his show once as well, but
(28:13):
he's talked to some very really, really smart people in
this space. I would highly recommend that you go check
out his show. But he posted in comments, Rob, glad
you were doing this, and he said he really enjoyed
the post on Google Plus and liked that I'm using
this podcast to give my thoughts keep them coming. Well,
thank you, Michael. I appreciate it, and I'm actually going
(28:34):
to have lunch with him next next week and we're
going to talk podcasting in greater detail. I also got
a comment from JD. Sutter, who says, Rob, I enjoyed
the topic, looking forward to hearing what you share in
upcoming shows. As for the topic of the episode, I
shared a lot of my feelings on this in my
own blog. Radio and podcasting have many similarities but are
(28:57):
very different. I had also explored somewhere thoughts on my
own blog a while back and that you might find fascinating.
His blog is at www dot Jdsutter dot me. He
has a comment about podcasting as an apparatus for communication,
and he Els said, I really enjoyed the New Media
(29:18):
show and keep up all the great work and thanks
for all you're doing for the world of podcasting. Well,
thank you JD for the nice words and comments. That's
all I got for this week. I'm Rob Greenley. I'm
the podcast guy on Windows Phone at Microsoft. Thanks again
for listening to my thoughts here. Next week, I'm planning
to get some other voices into this program to talk
(29:39):
about the topic that I'm going to focus on next week,
and it's the globalization of podcasting and what it means
for podcasting's future. There's been a few others in the
podcasting space that I've covered a little bit of this topic.
I want to dive into it at a deeper level.
And I do have a blog post coming on this
topic that will come out next week right along with
(29:59):
the the new episode. It probably come out before the
episode comes out. Like I said earlier in the show,
I want to hear your thoughts on this topic and
other topics that you think are important and let me
know on Twitter at at Rob Greenley or in the
comments area of Rob Greenley dot com. If you're a
podcaster and you want to get your podcast on Windows
phone or in the Zoom software which is still available
(30:21):
at zoom dot net. Then shoot me an email to
Podcasts at Microsoft dot com. I can also be found
on Google Plus, LinkedIn, and Facebook, or just email me
to Rob at Rob Greenley dot com. So take care
and like I said, thank you very much for listening
and hope to have you back listening next week on
(30:42):
my Digital life. Take care of the bod.
Welcome to My Digital Life Show with Rob Greenley for
June second, twenty thirteen. I'm Rob Greenley, and thank you
for downloading or just clicking play to listen to this
show from my website at Rob Greenley dot com from
all over the world, and I welcome all of our
listeners from every part of the globe listening to this show.
(00:23):
I know it's a new show, so we're probably not
reaching that many people around the world quite yet, but
I'm definitely going to keep you in mind people listening
outside of the United States. This is episode three. This
is kind of a new project for me. It's spent
a lot of time since I've had my own show.
I've been doing podcasts for other people for a long
time and on other people shows. This is my entry
(00:45):
back into doing my own show. I used to do
the show called web Talk Radio, and I ended production
of that back in two thousand and six, so this
is a newer adventure for me, even though I've been
around podcasting for a long time. Like I said, I
certainly appreciate you downloading this. It takes a lot of
dedication and commitment to get access to a show like this,
(01:09):
and like I said, I really appreciate it. In this show,
I'm going to cover just a couple of topics. I
try and keep the show relatively short, but the topics
this week i'm going to cover are the top thirteen
things that really build a podcast audience. The Electric Frontier
Foundation has launched a legal defense fund to raise fifty
(01:32):
thousand plus dollars to fight a podcast patent troll out
there that seems to be causing a lot of angst
amongst the podcaster community. And I also wanted to mention too,
I'm not going to cover just podcasting topics on this
show forever. I'm going to try and vary it up
a little bit, but my passion in my life does
(01:55):
center around podcasting, so you're going to see a lot
of that type of discussion on this program. I can
be reached at Rob at Rob Greenley dot com and
that's the last name is spell g r e E
N L e E. I certainly want to hear from
you and get your feedback on this program, and I
can also be reached on Twitter at Rob Greenley. The
(02:15):
show is now on iTunes and it's in the Windows
Phone podcast area. I've added it to Stitcher and I'm
going to get it on the in Tune platform. I'm
working our way through it. And for those of you
that don't know, I actually manage the podcasts for Windows
Phone and Zoom at Microsoft so and been around podcasting since.
(02:38):
Actually I started doing a broadcast radio show back in
nineteen ninety nine and took it out as a podcast
in two thousand and four. So this is a little
bit of a different format for me, being a solo show.
I never really thought that I would do a solo
show like this, So I'm definitely going to get other
people involved in the show, do some conversations with others
(03:00):
that can bring some expertise that I may not have,
and some perspectives that will add some variability to this
program to add more value to you. I also want
to let you know I co host the New Media
Show every Saturday mornings at nine am Pacific Standard time
and noon Eastern Time with Todd Cochran, who is the
CEO of Raw Voice, Blueberry power Press plug in for
(03:23):
word Press, and you can catch that show live. It's
actually live video streamed on YouTube. You stream and live stream,
and this is the url to go watch that show
every Saturday it's Live dot Geeknewcentral dot Com. I have
a fun time doing that show. I just got done
doing that show just this past Saturday. We had a
(03:46):
great guest on from StreamingMedia dot Com, mister Dan Rayburn,
who's executive vice president that manages all of the Streaming
Media West and East trade shows. Dan and I go
way back to the early days of streaming. I didn't
mention this on the show today with him, but we
did a show called the Streaming Media Show. So I
(04:06):
did a very early streaming show with Dan and actually
hosted on my servers. You know, back in the early
days of my own show, I had I had two
data centers with co located servers that I streamed other
people shows as well as my own show. Back then,
I really felt like I had to do that because
I had real servers as well as I had Windows
(04:28):
Media servers. Because most of my listening my audience was
listening to my show in two places on broadcast radio.
I was on about fifteen radio stations and then also
off of streaming from the Windows Media Player. I just
I got most of my online listeners via streaming, which
was really interesting. And it seems like we're kind of
(04:49):
coming around back to that again, let's dive into the
core topics that I wanted to cover on the show today,
and most of what I'm going to do here, there's
going to be probably at component to this off of
my blog, and this one is certainly one of those.
In it was a pretty popular article that I wrote
on the blog fairly recently. It wasn't something that I
(05:11):
have just written here in the last few weeks or
anything like that, but it has some really solid points
that can help any podcaster that may be listening to
the show. And I'm pretty sure that most of this
audience for this program are probably podcasters and new media creators.
What are the top thirteen things that really build a
podcast audience? I made this list just from a really
(05:33):
high level perspective just to kind of give some some
really high level tips to podcasters or new media creators
to help build an audience. And it's a very difficult
thing right now, and I think that what we all
have to do is kind of back up and going
back to the fundamentals. You know, I played basketball for
many years and one of the big things that I
learned from playing a high level of competitive sports was
(05:56):
that at the foundation of any outstanding player or competitor
at any level, whether it's business or sports, is that
you have to have your fundamentals down, your basics covered first.
And I think that is oftentimes lost in the aggressive
pursuit of trying to build an audience for a podcast,
(06:18):
is that you get kind of caught up in the
hype of what the next shiny thing is, and oftentimes
podcasters will neglect the boring fundamentals that need to be
exercised on a regular basis to keep your foundation built
to build your success. And I think that these thirteen
(06:40):
things are pretty much time tested. I did most of
these things on a consistent basis with my own radio
show and have seen these things work with many other
content providers over many years of doing this, and I've
been managing podcast catalogs for my god now it's it's
been probably over eight years now, so I've been able
(07:03):
to build a career around podcasting. That's that's rather unique
and rare out there, and I totally realize that and
I really appreciate it. So let me run down the
list of the thirteen things, And like I said, this
can be found on my blog as well. Number one
is great audio and video quality. And maybe this is
just you know, this is the number one thing that's
(07:26):
top of the list because it is something that we
all need to strive for and get better at. And
I know, even with this show, I did my last
recording with a kind of like a handheld digital recorder.
I was not happy with the way that sounds, though
it sounded very crisp and and but you know, you
(07:46):
spend a couple hundred dollars on a portable handheld recorder
and there's some trade offs for that, right, So I've
gone back to using my more expensive recording system here
that's in my my office, and that's the same pretty
much the same system that I use to do all
my guesting on other people's podcasts. And as you probably
(08:08):
can tell, between the recording of episode two and the
recording of episode three, you're probably noticing a pretty significant
difference in the audio quality because I am using pretty
expensive broadcast quality radio microphone right now. The sure, the
SM seven B MIC. That's a fairly popular mic in podcasting.
(08:30):
But great audio and video quality is extremely important, I
think to build and sustain an audience. And number two
is that the content needs to be informative or comedy,
or it's got to have some aspect that's fun. So
it depends on what your genre is. It just needs
to be compelling that oftentimes comes from a certain amount
(08:52):
of passion, knowledge and personality. But what I really hope
to do in this show is an example of that
is offered great value as far as the topics, the
value of the information that shared, just based on the
years and years of experience that I have in this
space and can help others to be successful too. And
I'm also going to use this show as an example
(09:14):
as well. And there's things that I certainly am working
on to improve on and take this show and do
all the things from this thirteen list as well, and
oftentimes it takes time to do that. Number three is
and from my perspective, running an aggregator network, compelling and
interesting cover art or album art, depending on how you
(09:37):
want to describe it is probably it belongs, probably even
higher than number three, but it is so important because
it is the first thing that your audience sees before
they decide whether or not they want to subscribe or
even just check out an episode. And then the other
aspect of that too, is I've noticed over the years
when I've refreshed the at it's not that you have
(10:01):
to dramatically change your cover arts. If you just do
a refresh of it, maybe it's one thing to think
about it is that it's a progression of improvement. And
that's how I would look at your album art. I've
seen shows that had questionable album art do okay, you know,
and have medium success, but when they went to a
next level of quality in their their cover art, I've
(10:22):
seen a significant increase in their their audience and engagement
and the perception of their program jumped up dramatically. And now, granted,
cover art is a very subjective thing, so I would
just recommend that you you plan for and be thinking
about ways that you can improve your album art cover
art on an ongoing basis, and then as you get
(10:44):
those ideas just on a periodic basis, just do a refresh,
you know, And it's it's worth the investment. It's also
worth getting somebody that's that's really a professional graphic artist
to actually do that. And I was going to get
a link to some resources you as a podcaster can
tap into to maybe take advantage of that. Number four
(11:06):
is being very clear in the name and the series
descriptions of your show. I would say that the cover
art and your name and description of your show are
the three most important things that you need to make
sure are covered. The fifth one on the list is
have your show made available on as many aggregator platforms
(11:27):
as you can. And that's what I was alluding to earlier,
is that I'm on this path of getting this show
out to all of the distribution platforms that are out there,
and there's a lot of them out there that people
just neglect to get into, and one of them is
a network called tune In. I would say that getting
your podcasts into tune in dot com should be a
(11:47):
high priority because as you look into the future, especially
if you're doing audio podcasting, getting your show into platforms
that are heading towards the CAR, I think are very important,
and so as you think about your online syndication strategy,
those are things to consider. Right is where are the
trends moving towards? And I would say that the trends
are moving towards easier user experiences for consuming audio content
(12:11):
that comes off of the Web and the Internet. In
the CAR itself now granted, a lot of people, and
most people are probably going to be listening to their
audio content through their phones into their car stereo systems
or their car Bluetooth kind of scenarios, but be thinking
about the next generation distribution platforms, and Stitcher certainly lives
(12:32):
in that world as well. There's other companies that are
coming that haven't been announced yet that will also be
living in that world as well. And who knows, we
could see a service like Pandora or Spotify or any
of these other music networks wind up adding audio podcasts
to their collection of content. So us as content providers
(12:54):
and podcasters need to really start thinking about those next
generation platforms. You may even consider, depending on what your
show is going and approaching a radio station and taking
your show on broadcast. It may make sense for some
of you guys to consider doing that and looking at
(13:17):
ways that you might be able to do that in
your local market. So I would definitely consider that. Moving
on the next one, number six, major parts of your
show need to include audience engagement and contribution. And as
you'll hear in this show a little bit later on
in the program, I'm going to have I'm going to
talk about people's comments. About my first couple of shows
(13:38):
and actually play an audio clip. So get your audience engaged.
And I definitely want to reach out to people listening
to this and feel free to reach out to me.
I can be reached at Rob at Rob Greenley dot com,
I can be reached in Twitter, I can be reached
in a lot of different places. Feel free to contribute
your thought. And like I said, I'm going to be
(13:59):
getting guests on the show and would love to get
it maybe like an MP three from you that can
be played on this show. So if you wanted to
ask a question and I can talk about that, I
know a fair amount of shows do this. We'd love
to create that conversation with you and to talk about
these topics at a much deeper level because I think
(14:19):
that other people listening to those questions could benefitment from
those topics as well. So anyway, audience engagement in contribution
can really help make this show more valuable to you.
So the next one here is meet your audience in
the real world and do that as much as you can.
There's a variety of ways you can do that, but
going to conferences, going to different events, you can have meetups,
(14:42):
you can have get your audience together. I mean, if
you're on a trip somewhere, put it out there in
your show that you're going to be in such and
such city. Set up a time to go to a
bar or a restaurant or somewhere like that, and invite
people to come join you and meet you. It's just
a great way to get a deeper engagement with your audience.
And I know a lot of podcasters, at least the
(15:03):
big celebrity podcasters, are doing that a lot by doing
live shows, like they'll they'll go in and they'll get
a venue in a city and they'll they'll actually record
their podcast in front of a live audience. And that's
a terrific way to meet your audience in the real world.
And you're seeing big name celebrity podcasters do this very successfully,
and it's growing their show and their audience and their
(15:27):
connection with their audience, and that's very powerful. And there
actually a lot of them are making big money from
that because they're selling tickets to actually get in. So
the next one here is I'm guests on other people's
podcasts and radio shows and TV shows. If you're a
topic expert, get out there and put yourself out there,
build relationships with journalists, become a resource to those journalists
(15:52):
and those radio show hosts and those TV show hosts
to help them create content, and thus you're reaching that
audience that can maybe come over and consume your show
as well. So I think those are very important things
to think about too. And also create some written words,
activity in your blog or join other forums topic discussion
(16:14):
areas in your genre and your topic area. And I
think it's very very important to building connection with new
members that could be potentially listening to your show. And
number ten is being very consistent with the production and
fairly consistent with the duration. Now, granted this show is
(16:34):
going to vary, probably pretty wildly on the duration. Part
is I'm already at twenty minutes now and I'm not
even through all my topics here yet, So anyway, i
tend to be a little long winded, but I'm going
to keep it value packed though if I can so
making your show on a regular basis, publishing it on
the same day, and being fairly consistent in the length,
(16:58):
though that can vary a lot. That's one of the
big things about podcasting that make it fantastic is that
you don't have to conform to any you like show
clock that kind of thing that is kind of in
the radio world. Number eleven is join a network of
other podcasters that can aggregate audiences. That can thus if
(17:19):
you have ambitions to monetize your show, to get advertisers
in your show. So I think it's a good strategy.
I think it's working for a lot of podcasters to
do that. And I think that's a big uber trend
that we're seeing around podcasting, is the rolling up and
the aggregation of audiences in genres. It's easier for that
(17:41):
network to approach big advertisers to pay content providers to
produce content in this area. So I think it has
a lot of benefits. Number twelve is work really hard
to be known locally in your community as an expert
and doing a show, and it's probably getting more difficult
now because media online media is so popular now there's
(18:03):
so many people doing it. Getting out there and putting
yourself out there locally is a way to stand out too,
because not everybody does that, and try and gain some
local media attention for what you're doing and as an expert.
And that kind of goes back to getting on radio
and TV shows, it's a similar kind of concept. And
then number thirteen is post your episodes to Twitter, Facebook,
(18:24):
Google Plus and use popular keywords to describe your programs
in your blog or on your website, depending on how
you want to call it. It's really key. I think
it's a little old school, but I think Twitter and
Facebook are going to become increasingly more important to getting
(18:44):
content like podcasts out discoverable. So that's my top thirteen lists.
If you have some other ideas that have been successful,
please send them to me and I will mention them
on the next show of successful strategies that you've seen
that have worked to build an audience. I don't have
all the answers. I know that the community that could
(19:06):
potentially be listening to this show has tried a lot
of different things, and I definitely want to want to
share that it's all for the betterment of podcast communities
that we all share and share our strategies because not
all of us are competing with each other. So anyway,
I'm going to move on to the next topic, and
that's the battle of the Electronic Frontier Foundation to go
(19:30):
after a US patent holder for podcasting and their fundraising
effort that they just had just over the last couple
of days, where they've raised over fifty thousand dollars from
over nine hundred supporters to fight this podcast patent troll.
And it's kind of a derogatory term. I don't necessarily
like the term troll because I think it has a
(19:53):
much more negative connotation than probably is really warranted here.
Any company that owns a past and is certainly within
their legal rights the patent. The US Patent Office issues
patents through very stringent kind of consideration. Though I think
this podcasting patent from personal audio it can be very
(20:17):
harmful to a medium like this, and so I support
the effort to challenge the podcast patent and I contributed
some funds myself here over the last couple of days
to help support the Electronic Frontier Foundation and their effort
to challenge this podcast pattern. And there's been others like
(20:38):
the Berkman Center the Cyber Law Clinic have also joined
with them in the effort to challenge this. It has
the potential to damage a upstart medium like podcasting, and
I'm not sure that there's really a benefit to this
company doing this other than to basically get some money.
(21:00):
They are not a participant in this community at any level.
They haven't created any technology that they are really defending here.
They just came up with the idea of a very
broad concept of this back in nineteen ninety six, and
then more recently in twenty twelve, they had an amendment
that was added to the patent that was approved that
(21:22):
covers kind of the podcasting process. So they're in the
middle of going after or sending out letters and to
contentb writers, I mean big content writers like CBS and
NBC and mister Adam Carolla and the Discovery Network with
the house Stuff works folks. And I've heard that there's
other people that have gotten letters too. I don't believe
(21:43):
that any of these have gone to court yet, so
we shall see. But anyway, I just wanted to give
kind of a general thought and I'll put some links
to this. I hope that it gets successfully challenged. We
shall see, though, So anyway, I also submit a prior
art suggestion, though it may appear to be a little
(22:03):
bit out of left field. It is difficult to find
a prior art prior to nineteen ninety six for this,
because frankly, nothing of this really existed a whole lot
back then. Though there are some prior art that I've seen.
There is a website that I will link to that
is asking for prior art to contest this patent, and
(22:26):
there appears to be quite a bit of stuff in there,
and I did contribute. Like I said, a comment in
there about the File Transfer Protocol FTP might be a
good prior art example against this patent because the FTP
protocol is very similar to podcasting in how it technically works.
At least that's my opinion. It may not pass the
(22:49):
muster of any kind of legal challenge, but I put
it out there anyway to kind of give a different
perspective that the FTP protocol was established back in nineteen
eighty five, so it's been around a very long time,
but it basically does the same thing. It's the basics
are ordered files being either manually or automatically transferred over
(23:12):
the Internet between computer devices with storage capability. So that
could be media files, it could be you know, text files,
It could be a lot of a lot of different
types of files. But that is the case with podcasting
as well, so it is kind of a you know,
ordered file is could be you know the episodes of
a show, right, So anyway, I also put a link
(23:35):
to that resource too, and I will add that to
my blog post at Rob Greenley dot com. So let's uh,
let's kind of move towards the last part of the show.
I have a few comments on last week's episode that
came in the last week's show was is podcasting the
(23:57):
same as radio? Was the question? And if you haven't
listened to the episode, go back and check it out.
I did hear a podcast that commented on my comments,
so I always like to have that. We're a podcast
that comments on the topics of another podcast, and we'll
do that as much as I can. I really encourage
(24:18):
podcasters to comment about my thoughts here and I will
play those comments back. And let's uh, let's do that.
The show is uh speaking of that, and this podcast
is hosted by Robert Kimi, and let's let's listen.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Last week about is podcasting radio? Basically?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Is it? Is it?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Internet radio? And the guy I can't remember his name,
I feel terrible, but he's the uh. He's like the
podcast guy from Microsoft. He gets all the podcasts into Zoom.
He finds out about him, he talks to podcasters. He
gets them all into the Zoom Store, so people who
have Microsoft you know, Windows phone and all that, they
can easily subscribe to these podcasts. And he's a pretty
cool guy. And I'll put his I'll put a link
(25:01):
to his blog in his podcast in the show notes.
I just can't remember his name right now, but you know,
his answer was, no, it's not And he even said
things like, you know, this is a podcast. Do whatever
you want. You don't have to do the traditional thing
of you know, having a little jingle when you come
back in or have it. You know, it's not like that.
(25:22):
You don't have to have that. You don't have to
have those stupid format things like you play a little
music and then suddenly you're listening to blah blah blah.
Well people know what they're listening to because they loaded
it into their freaking device.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
And that's what podcasts. When podcasts came out, that's what
it was about, bucking the system, doing something different, getting
breaking away from traditional radio. That's what it was. I mean,
if anybody says different, I want to punch them in
the news, because it was about doing your own thing.
(25:53):
What we did as podcasters, all of us you included.
You know, we we do things that are still kind
of radio. We try to do it at least we
put in music, like like we all have music at
the beginning of our shows because hey, that's the way
you do it, that's the way it was. I don't
have it on this one. You know what, I'm gonna
have to start listening to the beginning of the show
because I didn't notice that.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
No, there will be nothing.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
There'll be nothing just because you're going to buck the
system in within the system.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
No, it's just I don't have I'm not going to
put it in unless I have something good, Like I'm
not going to go out and get pod safe music
to put in there. What I would like to do
is get Brian Page to do it, but I can't.
You know, I'm not made of money. So I mean,
he's a professional. He requires payment in order to write
bring us a custom song.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
And yeah, and I think that if don't do it
just you know, like, don't do it just because you
have to, you know what I mean. You don't feel
like you have to, Like you said right now, you don't.
You don't have the money to do it.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
But I don't think for this one because you do
this for free.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
This is this is you don't get paid to.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Not only that, this one is my personal This is
just this is like a personal thing. It's me talking
to someone else and never once have I ever called
you up on boxer or whatever, and suddenly music plays
and then we can have a conversation.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
I want to say thank you to Robert and his
co host for the nice comments about my thoughts on
his podcasting the same as radio. Those guys went into
a little bit more detail later in their program about
this topic, but I just wanted to play a snippet
from the show. They can play snippets from my show
(27:28):
if they choose to too. I want this to be
a very open scenario for all of us to exchange
information with our audiences on what other people's thoughts are
and this is an example of that. So we also
had a few other text comments that were posted to
the Rob Greenley dot com blog. And Michael Wolfe, who
is in the middle of doing what is called the
(27:50):
podcast project. He's a local guy in the Seattle area
here who wrote an article for Forbes covering the podcast space.
He has his own podcast it's called Next Market and
it's at next market dot co and you can follow
He's talk with some of the leading minds in podcasting today.
I've actually was on his show once as well, but
(28:13):
he's talked to some very really, really smart people in
this space. I would highly recommend that you go check
out his show. But he posted in comments, Rob, glad
you were doing this, and he said he really enjoyed
the post on Google Plus and liked that I'm using
this podcast to give my thoughts keep them coming. Well,
thank you, Michael. I appreciate it, and I'm actually going
(28:34):
to have lunch with him next next week and we're
going to talk podcasting in greater detail. I also got
a comment from JD. Sutter, who says, Rob, I enjoyed
the topic, looking forward to hearing what you share in
upcoming shows. As for the topic of the episode, I
shared a lot of my feelings on this in my
own blog. Radio and podcasting have many similarities but are
(28:57):
very different. I had also explored somewhere thoughts on my
own blog a while back and that you might find fascinating.
His blog is at www dot Jdsutter dot me. He
has a comment about podcasting as an apparatus for communication,
and he Els said, I really enjoyed the New Media
(29:18):
show and keep up all the great work and thanks
for all you're doing for the world of podcasting. Well,
thank you JD for the nice words and comments. That's
all I got for this week. I'm Rob Greenley. I'm
the podcast guy on Windows Phone at Microsoft. Thanks again
for listening to my thoughts here. Next week, I'm planning
to get some other voices into this program to talk
(29:39):
about the topic that I'm going to focus on next week,
and it's the globalization of podcasting and what it means
for podcasting's future. There's been a few others in the
podcasting space that I've covered a little bit of this topic.
I want to dive into it at a deeper level.
And I do have a blog post coming on this
topic that will come out next week right along with
(29:59):
the the new episode. It probably come out before the
episode comes out. Like I said earlier in the show,
I want to hear your thoughts on this topic and
other topics that you think are important and let me
know on Twitter at at Rob Greenley or in the
comments area of Rob Greenley dot com. If you're a
podcaster and you want to get your podcast on Windows
phone or in the Zoom software which is still available
(30:21):
at zoom dot net. Then shoot me an email to
Podcasts at Microsoft dot com. I can also be found
on Google Plus, LinkedIn, and Facebook, or just email me
to Rob at Rob Greenley dot com. So take care
and like I said, thank you very much for listening
and hope to have you back listening next week on
(30:42):
my Digital life. Take care of the bod.
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