May 8, 2024 • 38 mins
In this must-listen episode of the Spoken Life Show, host Rob Greenlee transports listeners to the heart of the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) Show 2024. Rob assembles a distinguished panel of industry veterans to explore the intricate world of audio and video editing. The episode features insights from Chris Fenwick, director and chief editor at Slice Editorial; Gary Rebholzi, product lead for Vegas Creative Software; and Paul Sampson, CEO of the revolutionary music licensing platform Lickd.com. The discussion kicks off with an in-depth look at the current and emerging trends that are defining the editing landscape. The panelists share their extensive experience and discuss the evolution of editing tools, which are becoming more integrated and user-friendly, transforming how professionals and amateurs approach content creation. They cover everything from cutting and transitioning to the complexities of using music to enhance narrative flow. A significant portion of the conversation is dedicated to the role of music in storytelling. Paul Sampson provides a fascinating overview of how Lickd is tackling the challenges of music licensing, making it easier for creators to incorporate mainstream music into their projects without legal hurdles. This segment illuminates the often-overlooked impact of soundtracks on viewer engagement and emotional response. Analytics in content creation also takes center stage, with the panel examining how data-driven strategies can optimize viewer retention and engagement. They debate the influence of real-time analytics on creative decisions, highlighting how platforms like YouTube allow creators to adapt swiftly based on viewer behavior. This episode is not just about the technical aspects of editing but also delves into the philosophical and creative considerations that editors must balance. The dialogue continually circles back to the importance of maintaining a human touch in a tech-driven field, with each panelist sharing personal anecdotes and professional wisdom on creating content that resonates on a human level. Tune into this episode for a comprehensive guide to the latest editing technology and strategy, direct from the experts at the forefront of the industry at NAB Show 2024. Whether you're a seasoned editor or just starting, you'll find valuable insights and inspiration to enhance your next project. RobGreenlee.com | YouTube.com/robgreenlee Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spoken-life-show-with-rob-greenlee/id650684607 Spotify Podcasts - https://open.spotify.com/show/5OUXQ6wLZKxKIibxOQFD8t
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
The inspiration of spoken word tech and connection spoken spoken.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, welcome back to spoken life. In this episode, episode
six of the series, I'm going to be bringing you
the full panel conversation from the NEB Show down in
Las Vegas on April fourteenth of this year, twenty twenty four.
So sit back and enjoy the conversation around exploring the
(00:40):
secrets of editing the perfect video and Audio. I have
Chris Fenwick as well as Gary Rebolts and Paul Samson
joining me for this in depth conversation about all of
the issues happening around the latest and greatest of editing
perfect video and audio in this aid of AI and
(01:01):
the changing landscape around creating online content these days. So
sit back and enjoy this conversation. Here it is, let's
get started. I think we have all our panelists up
on the stage and welcome to the session's Secrets of
Editing the Perfect Video and Audio at the ADEV Show.
Thank you so much for being here and joining me.
(01:24):
We have an excellent panel for you this morning. Lots
of experience on the stage that can help shed some
lights around the trends around editing and actually the production
side too. So editing is the process of making content consumable,
right and there's a lot of trends involved in that
around music and around cuts and how we transition. So
(01:45):
we're going to cover all that kind of stuff. And
then also, really I think the tools of editing are
changing and evolving right now as well, and so this
session is really going to focus on on all of
the key issues that are happening in that side of
the industry right now, which tends to be a little
bit not front center, but is critical to having a
(02:07):
great product that comes out at the end. So let's
go ahead and meet the panel of sorts and hopefully
each one of you will share a little bit more detail.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
But I have Chris.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Fenwick here who's the director and lead editor and chief
technology officer for Slice Editorial. So Chris, tell us a
little bit about you, but don't go too long.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
I'll make it real brief.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
I've been making television shows for forty years, television and
corporate video.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
The much better money in corporate, by the way.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
And it's I obviously highly opinionated.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
I've seen many trends.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
I've been through eleven different edit systems in my career
and things. The only thing that you can guarantee is
that everything will change.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, and I think that's probably a good thing to
some degree.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Gary, tell us a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
About you, and you are the CPO provis for with
the Vegas Creative Software and that's part of the Magic's
side of things.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
But tell us a little bit more about your background
and how you got in bold in all this.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Hey, everybody, thanks, Yeah, I work with Vegas Creative Software.
We are the creators of Vegas Pro, which is a
non linear video and audio editing system. I've been with
the software for twenty five plus years now and we
(03:31):
work with people at all levels of video creation to
edit their projects. We have a particular focus on the
creator economy, the creator section, people that are doing We
started out doing and really supporting people that were doing
weddings and videograph event videography things like that, but that
has morphed really nicely into people who are doing social media,
(03:54):
YouTube kind of productions and so forth, because they have
the same needs as those guys did in those days.
They have to produce tons of content and they have
to do it quickly, and we're really well soon into
doing that and that's why we served that market terrific.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Paul Samson, tell us.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
A little bit about you. You're the founder at CEO
of a lickt, which is so music platform of sorts,
But tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 7 (04:20):
Yeah, I founded lickt seven and a half years ago.
Licked is the world's first mainstream music licensing platform for
content creators. When YouTube first came about and it built
its audio recognition tool called content ID, content ID recognizes
music and presumes that all music used on YouTube is
a copyright infringement, and that led to the unintended consequence
(04:41):
of that was that creator to start to earn money
from YouTube actively avoided using famous music. And that seemed
nonsensical to me because there was the fastest growing production
sector in the world, and so we set about solving
that problem with software, which we did, and then on
top of that, we built Spotify for content creators. So
there were ten thousand plus labels and publishers scientilicts as
(05:05):
one point four million songs available from people like Coldplay
and Buno Mars, Justin Bieber Lizzo Dua Lipa for the
first time made available to content creators without fear of
punitive damage or copyright in Finland.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, And just to say who I am. My name
is Rob Greenley and I'm a twenty plus year podcaster.
I started on the radio. I I used to work
for Microsoft, ran the Zoom podcasting platform as well as
did the Zoom Video experience, and now granted that platform
has gone away, but I've been working as a content
creator as well as an executive in the podcast space.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
I comment this a.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Little bit from the bandage point. I think as a
content creator as well as working with content creators and
being one myself, I can definitely associate with a lot
of the challenges on the post production side, and it's
interesting and there's a lot of directions we can go
with conversation. But I think the most important thing that
(06:03):
we all need to think about when it comes to
editing is what is the story that we're trying to tell,
What is the message that we're trying to deliver, What
is the value that we're trying to give to the
consumer of this content? And Chris, let's talk a little
bit about that about the storytelling aspects of editing, and
also it's around pre production too, But how do those
kind of coalesce with each other in your mind.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
What I would say as an editor is that I
am always looking for a spine. Every video that I
create has a spine. Sometimes it is dialogue. It's purely
just these are the words that have to get across.
And sometimes, and is where Paul comes in, that spine
is music. What's interesting is there are times when you're
(06:50):
looking for not only story transitions, but emotional transitions.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
And music really plays into that.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
And there are times as an editor will I will
favor the dialogue as that spine. And then there's times
when it's like, you know what, I really want this
to happen with this swell of the music. And even
though the client has absolutely said all these words need
to be before that swell of the music, I'm like,
(07:20):
come on, watch this. I'm gonna pull this out. I'm
gonna show you that those words were superfluous because what
we really need to do is change and the music
is going to bring us there.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
But that spine is where you hang everything off on.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Right.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
The other thing I say really quickly is tempo and pacing.
One of the things I do all the time in
whatever I use Final Cut pro but shift Z, I
can see my entire timeline and I can look at it.
I can see where the graphics are stacked up and
it's oh, we had a little breakaway there, and a
breakaway is like and then there's nothing, and then it's Okay,
(07:56):
I need to put something here because that's gonna help
in the pay. He used to always say, we have
an internal body clock of eight minutes, two minutes, or
thirty seconds. Eight minutes was between commercial breaks. Two minutes
was the commercial break, and thirty seconds was the commercial.
That's all changed now, but those that kind of tempo,
it's all tied.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
To our whatever our heart is supposed to beat at.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Mine's not good, but you know everything, you know, we
are biologically set to a tempo and we just need
to we need to be sensitive to that as we cut.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So we've had this assumption for many years, I think,
coming out of broadcast radio, that things are done in
a certain way to make things palatable for the broadcast space.
More in a traditional media standpoint, how do you think
the new online media expectations are different and how that's
going to drive that storytelling and then thus the tools
(08:51):
and then the music that creates the ambiance of that
me yeah, go oh hell so here, we can go
down there.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
So here's the deal. I think what I like to
call the kids YouTube, they're doing it way better than broadcast.
They're doing it way better. When I have time off
and I want to just sit and watch something, I'm
watching YouTube.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
It's better.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
And they have better metrics, and they have better ability
to see what they did well and what they didn't.
And broadcasters, we're two set in our ways.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
We got up. This is the way it's done. No,
you're not holding your audience.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
There's this false sense of security because you're CBS and
CNN that you have this huge audience. And yet YouTubers
take Jimmy mister Beast. He squashes any network television channel.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
The YouTubers are doing it way better.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So what do you think from a content production standpoint?
The YouTubers are doing it better than broadcasts. It seems
like that there's a lot to learn from broadcasts, right
that can be brought into the online side. Or are
we completely remaking everything?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah, I think it's the other way around. YouTube has
real time analytics.
Speaker 7 (09:54):
Right when I finish your video, wait for as long
as it takes to play the video, and then see
exactly where your audience was engaged, where they dropped off,
where you lost them, or how you retained them. The
example of mister Beast is he took those analytics and
obsessed over them twenty four hours a day, three sixty
five for fourteen years until he created the perfect retention
video and you get what's time Like that, then YouTube
(10:17):
pushes you to the algorithm that means you get promoted,
that means you get more views, and then it's a
virtuous cycle. Right and broadcast doesn't have that. They have
to wait weeks before they get a Nielsen report that
tells them what the viewer figures were and what the
feedback loop was on the content.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
You were able to do that they could afford. Right,
it was Broadcast. Nobody was pushing them. They had the
time to figure it out. You don't have the time now.
You need to be dialed into the analytics, as both said,
and you need to know what's going on now in
One of the things we were talking about is that
you've seen the democratization of video editing. Just like thirty
(10:56):
years ago, everybody suddenly became a graphic designer because PageMaker
made it easy to make a newsletter that what's what's
going on now? Final cut pro vegas Pro for a
few dollars, you can have a production powerhouse that is
far beyond what you could ever afford a traditional broadcast sense.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
I hate to say this, but I think page Maker
is closer to forty years old then.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Yeah. I was just trying to make you feel good.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So, as you think about your tools, the magic tool,
what is the thinking around how you guys are thinking
about that for speed of production, speed of getting content out,
the expectations of the market now for shorts, for various
derivative content from a master recording? Is that challenging you
guys to come up with tools that are simple to
(11:44):
use but very powerful and feature film?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
It is a challenge, but it's a fun challenge and
it's not rocket science. How do you make it easy
for somebody to edit? You do that by the same
way you do good creative work is by thinking differently,
thinking outside.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Of your normal realm.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
And that's what software like vegas pro does. If it
does it well, yeah, you don't have to think about it.
It just stays out of your way while you're creative.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, So how important is AI technology to what you
guys see going forward.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
With the Vegas software.
Speaker 6 (12:24):
It's going to be obviously really important to Vegas bro,
it's important to the industry. Everybody's talking about it is
the buzz around. What's important to us when it comes
to AI is to be really intentional about what we're
doing with AI. Not just here's a bunch of AI
features because that's what somebody said was cool, but what
can actually help.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
You get your job done?
Speaker 6 (12:47):
So we start talking about text based editing where the
AI analyzes the text and then you edit the text,
and then that can help edit your timeline, or automated
masking tools that cut hour zone man, you will work
out of the process. It's not a magic button. It's
really important for users to understand this when we talk
(13:09):
about AI. It's not that you're just going to push
the AI button in your videos done. You still have
to create, you still have to correct and the mistakes
and AI miggs.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
But it's really important to us.
Speaker 7 (13:23):
Can I just go back to the christion before about yeah,
making things easier for creators? Hands up in the room here,
anyone that's ever tried to license music before?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
How many of you enjoyed the experience.
Speaker 7 (13:35):
Yeah, so this is the point I'm making, like we
in order for us to make that music available on
linked we have had to what's called pre clear the
publishing on one point four million songs. That means there's
probably six million entities that we have had to contract
with just to.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Get that music clear.
Speaker 7 (13:55):
I would say a challenge here if I said you
pick a song, pick your favorite song from the last
ten years, and if I asked you now to try
and clear it for a piece of content, and the
first person if anyone does it within the next seven
to two hours, I'll give you a million dollars. I
would be so confident in that that I would bet
a million dollars I don't have if I bet Rob's
million dollars, and we can't have. The fact that we've
(14:16):
done all that work to make that music available at
a single click of a button.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Is really that there are two innovations that next.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
One that we're doing that for the first time for
this set of rights, and two that we then protect
the video when it goes up onto YouTube from copyright clips.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And I think it's a very hot topic right now
around copyright moderation at places like Spotify and YouTube whenever.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
It's definitely wrapped up.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
In the last year from what I'm seeing in the market,
and because there's technology companies out there that we're developing,
like music water marketing of sorts, technology that can actually
detect it in content. Because YouTube, when you upload your
video to their platform, they're analyzing lots of stuff and
running algorithms against it, checking it for context content because
(15:02):
they're pulling transcripts.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Yeah, Chris, I just want to say something for Paul,
not that he's not too shy to say this, but
I'm going to brag for him his software. What he
does tell me, if I get this right, is of
the songs that you've licensed, YouTube.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Is going to talk to Paul first, right, and then
he goes.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Oh, that's one of pauls Okay, good, Yeah, And not
only does it do that, but it says, oh, that's
one of Paul's songs and it's cleared for this YouTube channel.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
So it's just a much smoother operation. I really think
what you're doing is super brilliant.
Speaker 7 (15:34):
Thank you very much the software that we built, But
does that has to be integrated into the YouTube cms
of every partner that signs with US, so not the Channel,
but Warner Music, Sony Music, BMG, Cobalt, all these big
multinational companies sign with us, and then I give them
the software and they make it viable through their YouTube cms.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
So it's no mean feat.
Speaker 7 (15:55):
And our goal is to democratize music for the world's creators,
and I won't be happy and I won't stop until
we've got every song in the world available for content creators,
just like it is for big business.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Because this is.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
The fastest growing production sector in the world. Why would
the music industry treat it like second class citizens. Unfortunately,
the music industry specializes in one thing, and that is
being able to walk into a dark room with a
blindfold still manage to find a gun and shoot themselves
straight in the middle of the foot right. And everything
they've done in the last fifty sixty one hundred years
has been about a monetizing scarcity. And everything that the
(16:30):
UGC sector is asking them to do is about democratizing
and liberating assets.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
And they scared shitless about it.
Speaker 7 (16:37):
And that's why it takes us so long even to
get to pass one million song, which is by far
the largest catalog of music ever made available to any
production sector ever in the world, but we're still ninety
million short of having everything.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, I think one of the biggest worries that content
creator has ever right now in using music, even if
they go and license it from a royalty music platform
or something like that, that they're still going to get
called out on the platform because maybe that royalty free
music platform is not embracing a data connection with YouTube
or Spotify or whatever, and they're going to have to
(17:13):
prove that they have the license somehow.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
You're trying to say that the AI is broken.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
No, no, it's not the AI.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
It's individual companies not having that data connection with YouTube
or Spotify. Do you see that resolving itself? So everybody
is sharing license information with Spotify and YouTube and all
of these consumption platforms.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
It's getting there, right.
Speaker 7 (17:35):
We've just seen Universal Music partner with YouTube or an
AI generative music incubator. It's pretty shitty, if I'm honest,
But there's twenty artists that have given their voices for
cloning and their music for training of the AI. So
they're beginning to touch these spaces. But they've just moved
so slowly. And that's why I always talk when I
speak to creators. I'm telling like, you better start using
(17:57):
LIGT because if you want to get to a place
like I do, where there's every song in the world available,
every time I send the dollar to the music industry,
they feel more comfortable releasing more music, right, And that's
the point, Like, we've got it this far. Now we
need an army of creators behind us.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So you said a really good thing there that I'm
not sure everybody picked up on these platforms are basically
analyzing the music using AI. Yes, and it's basically creating,
let's say, a digital fingerprint of the music. So when
they detect it through their AI algorithms, pulling transcripts and
(18:32):
doing the analytics of it, that is what triggers the
copyright connection with the platform for verification of license.
Speaker 7 (18:42):
Correct, Yeah, But in terms of music for content ID,
it just said to them, what do you want me
to do if I find your music?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
And the answer is.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
Well, there's nowhere to license it, so every use must
be an infringement. And what our software does is tell
content ID hang on, this music is now available for license,
so you have to check with me. Essentially, it was
guilty before proven innocent, and our software tends to innocent,
proven guilty. Yeah, right, and we convet. The software that
we build the interacts with content ID is called VOUCH,
(19:12):
and we call it VOUCH because it vouches for our customers, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, is there any thought on that on your side
with the software on the post production side.
Speaker 6 (19:22):
Or obviously the more music that people can use without
worry of getting in trouble copyright strikes and all that garbage, Yeah,
that's just beautiful for us because then people can get
on with their creativity without all the garbage in their heads.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So you guys haven't had to connect with any of
these platforms for your own platform protection.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
At all or anything like that or not us.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
But our users, they're the ones at risk. We provide
the tool for them to build their thing. It's up
to them to add. It's up to the user to
add things that they own the rights to. That's that's
not us, but you guys making it easy for them
to do that. It makes it easier for them to
engage with our tool without their creativity being squashed by
(20:10):
worries about legal issues and things like that.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, Chris, you touched on, mister beast let's do a
little bit of a deep dive on that, because I
think there's a lot of lessons to be learned, not
just from the kind of content that mister Beasts is
creating today and the kind of scale on a global scale,
but I think the real things is that the creator
of mister Beast, the founder of it, he has put
(20:35):
out publicly that he is tired of his format.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And he is going to renew.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Himself or remake himself. Chris, what's your thought? What does
that indicate to the market about where we are with
these productions?
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Like we touched on earlier, everything changes, Everything is going
to change. You're going to use in five years, you're
going to be using totally different software than what you're
using today. And if you dig your he in like
I do often and say you're not going to change,
you're gonna be in trouble. Jimmy, mister Bees is aware
because he's analytical and because he watches those analytics. But
(21:11):
he also, and this is the important thing, he's not.
What he's doing now is he's not just reading the analytics.
He's actually going back and watching the videos. So you
got your metadata, and then you've got the entertainment factor
And on a recent podcast that we talked about the
other day, what is.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
It?
Speaker 4 (21:28):
No, it's a zamir and.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Yeah, so he's on this podcast, he's doing this thing
and he goes, yeah, I'm watching my old videos, and
I'm like, why.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Am I yelling?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Why am I screaming? Why? You know, there's not a
there's no point to take a breath. Space is okay?
Speaker 5 (21:46):
And Jimmy is starting to see that, and he's getting
that not by looking at the analytics, but he's getting
at it by taking a step back and actually watching
what he's done. That's why I'm not a big fan
of AI. You know, I've seen all the Terminator movies.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
I know where it is.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
It's not good for us. So we need to be careful.
But we need to grasp on to the human element
of what we're doing.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
What we need. The best way to.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
Communicate with anybody anytime, whether it's business or politics or
personal or anything a cooking show, the best way to
communicate is emotionally right, and when the computers understand human emotion,
good luck, because we don't even understand it.
Speaker 7 (22:32):
Yeah, it's true, and we've seen that in tagging even
like when you tag music, how does.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Music is?
Speaker 7 (22:41):
But how you can teach you what rock is and
what a tempo is? But how do you explain heartbreak?
And how many genres does heartbreak cross? Just on the
Beasting Chris is absolutely spot on. He basically watched the analytics.
He obsessed so much though I need a cut or
a format explanation of thirty seconds or if not twenty seconds,
(23:02):
otherwise people drop off. And it's became it's start giving
him headaches to watch the content because it was so fast.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
But mister Beasts is a regular user of Licks.
Speaker 7 (23:12):
He's our biggest customer that goes without saying any software
he uses, he's that software's.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Biggest customer, of course. But their team came to us.
Speaker 7 (23:20):
I spent a day actually out of their campus in Greenville,
North Carolina, about ten days ago.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
It's amazing what they're doing out there.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
He's got three hundred and seventy star four hundred acres
of land, six studios and it's really incredible. But they're
talking about elevating the level of their content right and
the sidemen out of the UK are having the same
conversations with us, and one of the best ways and
simplest ways to do that is through music, because at
any point in when your storytelling, if you think about
(23:48):
the best storytellers you know in your friendship group, the raconteurs,
they're able to bring you into the story. They're able
to create an emotional connection so you feel like you're there.
And one of the easiest ways to do that is
to use a song that you know is going to
create an emotion, a song associated with an event, a
song associated with the time in your life. Because more
than like this also evoking nostalgia with the viewer, and
(24:10):
if the viewer feels emotionally connected to the content, then
they're going to watch for longer. And what we've seen,
particularly through things like fitness videos or sports content, that
the move from stock music to famous music is paying
for itself because people are commenting about the music use
in under the video. People are watching longer and sharing
(24:34):
videos because of how it made them feel, and all
of those analytics drive you into the algorithm. If you're
driven into the algorithm, you get promoted and you get
more revenue. So we see people come into litt, come
in at the entry point price bracket, start using and
very quickly migrate up the prize bands that and not
be concerned about it because the music starts to pay
for itself.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
It's an interesting phenomenon.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
Well, it's interesting about this discussion about mister Beast and
his analytics and Chris's dislike for AI. What's really important
for us as creators to keep in mind is that
it's so easy to get caught up in the analytics
and it's so easy to get caught up in the
technology of the AI that you forget why you're doing
(25:16):
what you're doing. You forget to be a creator, you
forget to be a creative person. And if you start
letting your obsession of the AI tools or your obsession
of your analytics, not that it's not important, that stuff
is all important, but if you let that stuff start
dictating what you do as a creator, then you're only chasing.
You're chasing mister Beast and you're never going to catch him.
(25:39):
So use all that stuff, leverage all that stuff. But
as a creator, you've got to touch keep in touch
with why you're creating and what you're trying to do
and the story you're trying to tell.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Let that stuff support you, not driving.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
Have you ever heard Casey Nystat talk about the mist
beastification of YouTube because the number one creator in the
world made his content a cert of way and it
was so fast and he was screaming. Everyone started mimicking it.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
And it's turned into a bit of a shit show.
Speaker 7 (26:11):
And even Jimmy's looking back on his content now and going,
I would just have to relax a bit more when
I'm watching my own content.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Well, it was super ironic for me.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Is the same month I heard Casey talk about or
coin the term.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Maybe he didn't coin beastification. The same month I hear
Jimmy go, yeah, I'm over it.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
But doesn't mean that he's at risk of creating more
boring content.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
That's the other end of the spectrum. No, I think
it's the perfect mix.
Speaker 7 (26:38):
The guy he was talking about about using the analytics
to drive optimizations but understanding what it is to be
a viewer and what it's what the experience is like
watching the content.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Be a human before you lean into So does that.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Mean that from a psychology standpoint and the expectations of
the audience are shifting?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Right?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Is it based on Chris? What do you think? What's
it based on? Why are we shifting towards more emotional content,
less kind of flash bang pow type content that mister
Beasts has been doing.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
I don't know that we are. Let's see if Jimmy
can pull it off. Pasification is explosions and no breaths.
So when you do your podcast, do you edit the
breaths out or do you just gate him out?
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Or do you just let him fly?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
What do you usually just let him fly?
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Especially?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I just wanted to do a podcast.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I wanted to get that EUI of the way.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
So we got to see if Jimmy's successful, if he
can actually slow things down and he could take a
seven minute video make it into.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
A twelve minute video and retain the audience.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Awesome? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Or is he just growing up and getting a little
more conservative in his content?
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I wonder he may be.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I know, is there any comment on that that maybe
this is the natural evolution of a.
Speaker 6 (27:52):
Content that plays a big part in it. But I
wouldn't call it grow it. How did you phrase it?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Getting older, growing up thinking a little.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
He's he's thinking about what he's doing, and he's nobody
wants to be stagnant doing the same thing.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Forever.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I saw that the broadcast industry to some degree, or
the streaming platforms were embracing his content now too, So
that means that maybe that's a sign to him that
maybe he's crossed the rubicon that he doesn't want to cross.
Speaker 7 (28:18):
Right, You asked before if YouTubers were learning from broadcasts
or if broadcasts were learning from YouTubers, And that's the
first sign, right, If one of the biggest streaming platforms
in the world is throwing nine figures at you to
try and bring your audience to their platform.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Amazon Prime has fewer subscribers.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
Than this debaate, He's going to a small audience for this,
and that's because broadcast needs to learn from contact creators.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yes, he does throw a lot of money around. So
that's the other thing too that's different than most YouTubers.
That is that a lot of them don't have the
money to do like a half million dollar prize or
something like that for a squid game type of experience.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Right, Reube, Right, it's not I mean, it's not that
he doesn't have the money to do it.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
It's just it'll be interesting.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
And maybe I don't understand likely if Jimmy's calling the
shots in because he very famously says, I put all
the money back into the videos.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I put all the money back into the he puts
it all he's eating.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
But if he's putting all the money, would a big
company allow him to do that, because there's a point
where autonomy gets squashed by the politics of a big company,
and that could be that could be the death of things.
Speaker 7 (29:29):
It'd be interesting because would be the first time that
he's putting out successive episodes where he can't take a
learning from one episode and implement it into the next,
because they will shoot the whole thing and edit it
and then it will just go live and be released
episodically or even in Win one Go.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
But there's a gentleman here in.
Speaker 7 (29:47):
The audience who should probably be up on this stage
with us, called Hayden because he was editing for Mister
Beast and people like Logan Paul in the past.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So let's let we just have a few more minutes.
But I just wanted to back up and just bring
to the four what the key takeaways are of what
we've been talking about here and what you can take
away from this to help you be a better maybe
content creator or a producer or something like that. What
are the important things that you've heard in this conversation, Chris,
(30:17):
do you.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Think AI is going to rule the world?
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
What does that mean? No, I don't. I think the important.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
Thing about editing, I'd go back to what I was
saying about finding that spine. Things have to have purpose,
things have to have a reason for being there. I
had a great discussion just this morning with my friend
Keenan about great television scripts, and to me, a great
television script is one where every word is important, and
(30:47):
you take certain things and you look at it and
you're like, there's not a word in this I could
take out that wouldn't affect the quality of it right
to the downside. And you find that spine and you
remain true to it, and you keep the emotion in
the forefront.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, Garrett, here for me take away.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
Chris has mentioned this spine analogy several times, and I
don't mean to be corny, but if it has to
have a spine, it also has to have a heart.
And that's the most important thing to me is that
you bring the heart to your production. You bring the
heart to what you're creating, and nobody else can do that.
You can do that better than mister beasts can do that.
(31:27):
Let mister beasts do what mister beast does.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
You do what you do.
Speaker 6 (31:31):
You learn from what he does, you learn from what
other people do, and then you bring it your own
heart and you create something. That's what it's really all about.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
I would say that great content evokes emotions, and one
of the best ways to evoke emotions is creating a
rap pol with your viewer. And a way to do
that is to use great fucking music. Guy Ritchie once said,
if you watch a great film, it's fifty percent the
visuals of fifty percent of the music, right, And that's
why his soundtracks are always epic in fact, than the content.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Most of the time.
Speaker 7 (32:01):
Let's be honest and really putting value on the music
choices you make and the music you can use to
help tell your story is going to benefit your content,
no end.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
So one last or towards the end here topic that
I wanted to mention too is as we think about
shorts and longer form content in the production side. So
we have TikTok, we have YouTube, we have shorts on
a variety of different platforms. How do you walk that
line these days with content and your post production and
(32:33):
your editing and all this kind stuff like that to
make all that work together. Chris, do you have any
thoughts on that one.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
I am pretty old school.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
I know that a lot of people want to have
a button or a thing or a tool that's just
gonna seek it out and find it and automate, automate.
I tend to work very old school, and I'm going
to go through the content and I'm gonna I might
market as i'm doing it. God, it'd be a good
clip or something that'd be a good lift for later.
(33:03):
And I'm not looking for a magic button that makes
everything vertical.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
I'm gonna do. I still work, and I think that
there's a place for that.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
And I'm not saying it's wrong, but I think that
I might be more worried about retiring than doing things quicker.
And so I'm not so much worried about all those things.
But it's okay to work. Editorial is a job.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
There's a reason why I get paid. I do a
lot of.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Things for you, and I'm doing a lot of things
for you that you probably don't.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Realize I'm doing for you.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
And I think when you have that relationship with your editor,
you realize you got to lean on that person and
they're going to cover a lot of stuff for you
that you're not even cognizant of.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, because it does seem like that the short form
content that we're seeing in the market today is not
really always being seen as a referential medium to longer
form content, though I'm seeing some overlap there where people
will become a customed to your brand and who you
are and your message in the shorts, and that may
translate into consumption of the longer form content. But as
(34:08):
you look at the tooling side, Gary, how do you
guys think about shorts versus longer form content? Are you
guys building that short capability into the tools?
Speaker 6 (34:16):
The tool can do whatever you want it to do.
That's not the issue to me. The issue is there's
it's become a bit of a meme now in the
business world. But start with your why are you doing
what you're doing? If you start from there, if you
start from your message and you decide what it is
you're trying to do and why you're trying to do it,
then you can then figure out how you're going to
(34:39):
deliver it and whether that's a short, or whether that's
a nine x sixteen or sixteen by nine or a
square for Instagram or whatever. But if you start there
instead of starting with why you're doing what you're doing it,
you're just chasing shadows.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 7 (34:54):
And I would add to that, just be thematically consistent
of course, on the platforms. Right, if people are watching
you long form because you provide real value on a
specific topic, don't go start making shorts that are about
something completely different like reaction videos.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Use it as a promo.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
Toe'll find out where you're earning your money, where you're
earning your income, if it's brand paying you because of
your Instagram or if it's had sense from YouTube, and
then use the other verticals to drive traffic to that
one base.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I think the other part of this too, and I
don't know if you can hear me, but is that
a lot of AI tools are being utilized to create
shorts now and yeah, and it seems like that they're
still struggling to find those cutpoints that are optimal and
it's not always the best experience, and it drives people
(35:41):
back to maybe putting up short form content that's less optimal.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
I don't know what you think about.
Speaker 6 (35:47):
The AI can't do it for you. AI can help
you do it. You still got to do it yourself.
You still have to correct the mistakes that AI is
going to make. Maybe someday AI will magically do it,
but then it's no fun.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Right, Let's go in and take a couple of questions.
If anybody in the audience wants to ask any of
our terrific panelists any questions on some of the things
we've talked about, just raise your hand.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
If you want to make a comment, speak again. I
won't be speaking again.
Speaker 7 (36:19):
I'm speaking on Tuesday here at eleven am about eggs.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, And I'm doing a workshop for stream Yard here
at four o'clock today here in the same area here.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
I'm going to be making some shelves in my friend
Keenan's garage later this week, So if you want to
drop by, we could have a chat.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, does anybody else have a question about editing or
tools or AI or what you guys are saying licensing person, Yeah,
there you go. There's a topic that that triggered some interest. Yes,
I think we've got a couple of questions in the
back there.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
I don't take it from the guys.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I don't think think license.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Ah, Jesus, this is gonna go bad. Maybe I get.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Good, all right, if you don't have any questions? All right.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
There was a lot of fears and a lot of thinking,
and we talked before about oh yeah, and I.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Think welcome around and you guys should get you few
opened by some of our exhibitors. You guys should think
about more short form and is there a right form?
Speaker 1 (37:31):
I believe you watched short form and then you short
but did you find out a little more about that?
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Thank you, Thank you all for being here and spending
time with Thank you. Thanks to Chris, Gary and Paul
for taking their time out to share.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Thanks the inspiration, Spoken Word, Tech Connection, Spoken Light, Boken
Spoken Light, Spoken Light, Spoken Lights with Rob Greenley with
(38:08):
Rob Greenley with Rob green
Speaker 2 (38:16):
MHM
The inspiration of spoken word tech and connection spoken spoken.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, welcome back to spoken life. In this episode, episode
six of the series, I'm going to be bringing you
the full panel conversation from the NEB Show down in
Las Vegas on April fourteenth of this year, twenty twenty four.
So sit back and enjoy the conversation around exploring the
(00:40):
secrets of editing the perfect video and Audio. I have
Chris Fenwick as well as Gary Rebolts and Paul Samson
joining me for this in depth conversation about all of
the issues happening around the latest and greatest of editing
perfect video and audio in this aid of AI and
(01:01):
the changing landscape around creating online content these days. So
sit back and enjoy this conversation. Here it is, let's
get started. I think we have all our panelists up
on the stage and welcome to the session's Secrets of
Editing the Perfect Video and Audio at the ADEV Show.
Thank you so much for being here and joining me.
(01:24):
We have an excellent panel for you this morning. Lots
of experience on the stage that can help shed some
lights around the trends around editing and actually the production
side too. So editing is the process of making content consumable,
right and there's a lot of trends involved in that
around music and around cuts and how we transition. So
(01:45):
we're going to cover all that kind of stuff. And
then also, really I think the tools of editing are
changing and evolving right now as well, and so this
session is really going to focus on on all of
the key issues that are happening in that side of
the industry right now, which tends to be a little
bit not front center, but is critical to having a
(02:07):
great product that comes out at the end. So let's
go ahead and meet the panel of sorts and hopefully
each one of you will share a little bit more detail.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
But I have Chris.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Fenwick here who's the director and lead editor and chief
technology officer for Slice Editorial. So Chris, tell us a
little bit about you, but don't go too long.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
I'll make it real brief.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
I've been making television shows for forty years, television and
corporate video.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
The much better money in corporate, by the way.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
And it's I obviously highly opinionated.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
I've seen many trends.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
I've been through eleven different edit systems in my career
and things. The only thing that you can guarantee is
that everything will change.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, and I think that's probably a good thing to
some degree.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Gary, tell us a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
About you, and you are the CPO provis for with
the Vegas Creative Software and that's part of the Magic's
side of things.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
But tell us a little bit more about your background
and how you got in bold in all this.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Hey, everybody, thanks, Yeah, I work with Vegas Creative Software.
We are the creators of Vegas Pro, which is a
non linear video and audio editing system. I've been with
the software for twenty five plus years now and we
(03:31):
work with people at all levels of video creation to
edit their projects. We have a particular focus on the
creator economy, the creator section, people that are doing We
started out doing and really supporting people that were doing
weddings and videograph event videography things like that, but that
has morphed really nicely into people who are doing social media,
(03:54):
YouTube kind of productions and so forth, because they have
the same needs as those guys did in those days.
They have to produce tons of content and they have
to do it quickly, and we're really well soon into
doing that and that's why we served that market terrific.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Paul Samson, tell us.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
A little bit about you. You're the founder at CEO
of a lickt, which is so music platform of sorts,
But tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 7 (04:20):
Yeah, I founded lickt seven and a half years ago.
Licked is the world's first mainstream music licensing platform for
content creators. When YouTube first came about and it built
its audio recognition tool called content ID, content ID recognizes
music and presumes that all music used on YouTube is
a copyright infringement, and that led to the unintended consequence
(04:41):
of that was that creator to start to earn money
from YouTube actively avoided using famous music. And that seemed
nonsensical to me because there was the fastest growing production
sector in the world, and so we set about solving
that problem with software, which we did, and then on
top of that, we built Spotify for content creators. So
there were ten thousand plus labels and publishers scientilicts as
(05:05):
one point four million songs available from people like Coldplay
and Buno Mars, Justin Bieber Lizzo Dua Lipa for the
first time made available to content creators without fear of
punitive damage or copyright in Finland.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, And just to say who I am. My name
is Rob Greenley and I'm a twenty plus year podcaster.
I started on the radio. I I used to work
for Microsoft, ran the Zoom podcasting platform as well as
did the Zoom Video experience, and now granted that platform
has gone away, but I've been working as a content
creator as well as an executive in the podcast space.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
I comment this a.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Little bit from the bandage point. I think as a
content creator as well as working with content creators and
being one myself, I can definitely associate with a lot
of the challenges on the post production side, and it's
interesting and there's a lot of directions we can go
with conversation. But I think the most important thing that
(06:03):
we all need to think about when it comes to
editing is what is the story that we're trying to tell,
What is the message that we're trying to deliver, What
is the value that we're trying to give to the
consumer of this content? And Chris, let's talk a little
bit about that about the storytelling aspects of editing, and
also it's around pre production too, But how do those
kind of coalesce with each other in your mind.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
What I would say as an editor is that I
am always looking for a spine. Every video that I
create has a spine. Sometimes it is dialogue. It's purely
just these are the words that have to get across.
And sometimes, and is where Paul comes in, that spine
is music. What's interesting is there are times when you're
(06:50):
looking for not only story transitions, but emotional transitions.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
And music really plays into that.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
And there are times as an editor will I will
favor the dialogue as that spine. And then there's times
when it's like, you know what, I really want this
to happen with this swell of the music. And even
though the client has absolutely said all these words need
to be before that swell of the music, I'm like,
(07:20):
come on, watch this. I'm gonna pull this out. I'm
gonna show you that those words were superfluous because what
we really need to do is change and the music
is going to bring us there.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
But that spine is where you hang everything off on.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Right.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
The other thing I say really quickly is tempo and pacing.
One of the things I do all the time in
whatever I use Final Cut pro but shift Z, I
can see my entire timeline and I can look at it.
I can see where the graphics are stacked up and
it's oh, we had a little breakaway there, and a
breakaway is like and then there's nothing, and then it's Okay,
(07:56):
I need to put something here because that's gonna help
in the pay. He used to always say, we have
an internal body clock of eight minutes, two minutes, or
thirty seconds. Eight minutes was between commercial breaks. Two minutes
was the commercial break, and thirty seconds was the commercial.
That's all changed now, but those that kind of tempo,
it's all tied.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
To our whatever our heart is supposed to beat at.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Mine's not good, but you know everything, you know, we
are biologically set to a tempo and we just need
to we need to be sensitive to that as we cut.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So we've had this assumption for many years, I think,
coming out of broadcast radio, that things are done in
a certain way to make things palatable for the broadcast space.
More in a traditional media standpoint, how do you think
the new online media expectations are different and how that's
going to drive that storytelling and then thus the tools
(08:51):
and then the music that creates the ambiance of that
me yeah, go oh hell so here, we can go
down there.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
So here's the deal. I think what I like to
call the kids YouTube, they're doing it way better than broadcast.
They're doing it way better. When I have time off
and I want to just sit and watch something, I'm
watching YouTube.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
It's better.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
And they have better metrics, and they have better ability
to see what they did well and what they didn't.
And broadcasters, we're two set in our ways.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
We got up. This is the way it's done. No,
you're not holding your audience.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
There's this false sense of security because you're CBS and
CNN that you have this huge audience. And yet YouTubers
take Jimmy mister Beast. He squashes any network television channel.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
The YouTubers are doing it way better.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So what do you think from a content production standpoint?
The YouTubers are doing it better than broadcasts. It seems
like that there's a lot to learn from broadcasts, right
that can be brought into the online side. Or are
we completely remaking everything?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah, I think it's the other way around. YouTube has
real time analytics.
Speaker 7 (09:54):
Right when I finish your video, wait for as long
as it takes to play the video, and then see
exactly where your audience was engaged, where they dropped off,
where you lost them, or how you retained them. The
example of mister Beast is he took those analytics and
obsessed over them twenty four hours a day, three sixty
five for fourteen years until he created the perfect retention
video and you get what's time Like that, then YouTube
(10:17):
pushes you to the algorithm that means you get promoted,
that means you get more views, and then it's a
virtuous cycle. Right and broadcast doesn't have that. They have
to wait weeks before they get a Nielsen report that
tells them what the viewer figures were and what the
feedback loop was on the content.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
You were able to do that they could afford. Right,
it was Broadcast. Nobody was pushing them. They had the
time to figure it out. You don't have the time now.
You need to be dialed into the analytics, as both said,
and you need to know what's going on now in
One of the things we were talking about is that
you've seen the democratization of video editing. Just like thirty
(10:56):
years ago, everybody suddenly became a graphic designer because PageMaker
made it easy to make a newsletter that what's what's
going on now? Final cut pro vegas Pro for a
few dollars, you can have a production powerhouse that is
far beyond what you could ever afford a traditional broadcast sense.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
I hate to say this, but I think page Maker
is closer to forty years old then.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
Yeah. I was just trying to make you feel good.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So, as you think about your tools, the magic tool,
what is the thinking around how you guys are thinking
about that for speed of production, speed of getting content out,
the expectations of the market now for shorts, for various
derivative content from a master recording? Is that challenging you
guys to come up with tools that are simple to
(11:44):
use but very powerful and feature film?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
It is a challenge, but it's a fun challenge and
it's not rocket science. How do you make it easy
for somebody to edit? You do that by the same
way you do good creative work is by thinking differently,
thinking outside.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Of your normal realm.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
And that's what software like vegas pro does. If it
does it well, yeah, you don't have to think about it.
It just stays out of your way while you're creative.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, So how important is AI technology to what you
guys see going forward.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
With the Vegas software.
Speaker 6 (12:24):
It's going to be obviously really important to Vegas bro,
it's important to the industry. Everybody's talking about it is
the buzz around. What's important to us when it comes
to AI is to be really intentional about what we're
doing with AI. Not just here's a bunch of AI
features because that's what somebody said was cool, but what
can actually help.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
You get your job done?
Speaker 6 (12:47):
So we start talking about text based editing where the
AI analyzes the text and then you edit the text,
and then that can help edit your timeline, or automated
masking tools that cut hour zone man, you will work
out of the process. It's not a magic button. It's
really important for users to understand this when we talk
(13:09):
about AI. It's not that you're just going to push
the AI button in your videos done. You still have
to create, you still have to correct and the mistakes
and AI miggs.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
But it's really important to us.
Speaker 7 (13:23):
Can I just go back to the christion before about yeah,
making things easier for creators? Hands up in the room here,
anyone that's ever tried to license music before?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
How many of you enjoyed the experience.
Speaker 7 (13:35):
Yeah, so this is the point I'm making, like we
in order for us to make that music available on
linked we have had to what's called pre clear the
publishing on one point four million songs. That means there's
probably six million entities that we have had to contract
with just to.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Get that music clear.
Speaker 7 (13:55):
I would say a challenge here if I said you
pick a song, pick your favorite song from the last
ten years, and if I asked you now to try
and clear it for a piece of content, and the
first person if anyone does it within the next seven
to two hours, I'll give you a million dollars. I
would be so confident in that that I would bet
a million dollars I don't have if I bet Rob's
million dollars, and we can't have. The fact that we've
(14:16):
done all that work to make that music available at
a single click of a button.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Is really that there are two innovations that next.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
One that we're doing that for the first time for
this set of rights, and two that we then protect
the video when it goes up onto YouTube from copyright clips.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And I think it's a very hot topic right now
around copyright moderation at places like Spotify and YouTube whenever.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
It's definitely wrapped up.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
In the last year from what I'm seeing in the market,
and because there's technology companies out there that we're developing,
like music water marketing of sorts, technology that can actually
detect it in content. Because YouTube, when you upload your
video to their platform, they're analyzing lots of stuff and
running algorithms against it, checking it for context content because
(15:02):
they're pulling transcripts.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Yeah, Chris, I just want to say something for Paul,
not that he's not too shy to say this, but
I'm going to brag for him his software. What he
does tell me, if I get this right, is of
the songs that you've licensed, YouTube.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Is going to talk to Paul first, right, and then
he goes.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Oh, that's one of pauls Okay, good, Yeah, And not
only does it do that, but it says, oh, that's
one of Paul's songs and it's cleared for this YouTube channel.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
So it's just a much smoother operation. I really think
what you're doing is super brilliant.
Speaker 7 (15:34):
Thank you very much the software that we built, But
does that has to be integrated into the YouTube cms
of every partner that signs with US, so not the Channel,
but Warner Music, Sony Music, BMG, Cobalt, all these big
multinational companies sign with us, and then I give them
the software and they make it viable through their YouTube cms.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
So it's no mean feat.
Speaker 7 (15:55):
And our goal is to democratize music for the world's creators,
and I won't be happy and I won't stop until
we've got every song in the world available for content creators,
just like it is for big business.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Because this is.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
The fastest growing production sector in the world. Why would
the music industry treat it like second class citizens. Unfortunately,
the music industry specializes in one thing, and that is
being able to walk into a dark room with a
blindfold still manage to find a gun and shoot themselves
straight in the middle of the foot right. And everything
they've done in the last fifty sixty one hundred years
has been about a monetizing scarcity. And everything that the
(16:30):
UGC sector is asking them to do is about democratizing
and liberating assets.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
And they scared shitless about it.
Speaker 7 (16:37):
And that's why it takes us so long even to
get to pass one million song, which is by far
the largest catalog of music ever made available to any
production sector ever in the world, but we're still ninety
million short of having everything.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, I think one of the biggest worries that content
creator has ever right now in using music, even if
they go and license it from a royalty music platform
or something like that, that they're still going to get
called out on the platform because maybe that royalty free
music platform is not embracing a data connection with YouTube
or Spotify or whatever, and they're going to have to
(17:13):
prove that they have the license somehow.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
You're trying to say that the AI is broken.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
No, no, it's not the AI.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
It's individual companies not having that data connection with YouTube
or Spotify. Do you see that resolving itself? So everybody
is sharing license information with Spotify and YouTube and all
of these consumption platforms.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
It's getting there, right.
Speaker 7 (17:35):
We've just seen Universal Music partner with YouTube or an
AI generative music incubator. It's pretty shitty, if I'm honest,
But there's twenty artists that have given their voices for
cloning and their music for training of the AI. So
they're beginning to touch these spaces. But they've just moved
so slowly. And that's why I always talk when I
speak to creators. I'm telling like, you better start using
(17:57):
LIGT because if you want to get to a place
like I do, where there's every song in the world available,
every time I send the dollar to the music industry,
they feel more comfortable releasing more music, right, And that's
the point, Like, we've got it this far. Now we
need an army of creators behind us.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So you said a really good thing there that I'm
not sure everybody picked up on these platforms are basically
analyzing the music using AI. Yes, and it's basically creating,
let's say, a digital fingerprint of the music. So when
they detect it through their AI algorithms, pulling transcripts and
(18:32):
doing the analytics of it, that is what triggers the
copyright connection with the platform for verification of license.
Speaker 7 (18:42):
Correct, Yeah, But in terms of music for content ID,
it just said to them, what do you want me
to do if I find your music?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
And the answer is.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
Well, there's nowhere to license it, so every use must
be an infringement. And what our software does is tell
content ID hang on, this music is now available for license,
so you have to check with me. Essentially, it was
guilty before proven innocent, and our software tends to innocent,
proven guilty. Yeah, right, and we convet. The software that
we build the interacts with content ID is called VOUCH,
(19:12):
and we call it VOUCH because it vouches for our customers, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, is there any thought on that on your side
with the software on the post production side.
Speaker 6 (19:22):
Or obviously the more music that people can use without
worry of getting in trouble copyright strikes and all that garbage, Yeah,
that's just beautiful for us because then people can get
on with their creativity without all the garbage in their heads.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So you guys haven't had to connect with any of
these platforms for your own platform protection.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
At all or anything like that or not us.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
But our users, they're the ones at risk. We provide
the tool for them to build their thing. It's up
to them to add. It's up to the user to
add things that they own the rights to. That's that's
not us, but you guys making it easy for them
to do that. It makes it easier for them to
engage with our tool without their creativity being squashed by
(20:10):
worries about legal issues and things like that.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, Chris, you touched on, mister beast let's do a
little bit of a deep dive on that, because I
think there's a lot of lessons to be learned, not
just from the kind of content that mister Beasts is
creating today and the kind of scale on a global scale,
but I think the real things is that the creator
of mister Beast, the founder of it, he has put
(20:35):
out publicly that he is tired of his format.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And he is going to renew.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Himself or remake himself. Chris, what's your thought? What does
that indicate to the market about where we are with
these productions?
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Like we touched on earlier, everything changes, Everything is going
to change. You're going to use in five years, you're
going to be using totally different software than what you're
using today. And if you dig your he in like
I do often and say you're not going to change,
you're gonna be in trouble. Jimmy, mister Bees is aware
because he's analytical and because he watches those analytics. But
(21:11):
he also, and this is the important thing, he's not.
What he's doing now is he's not just reading the analytics.
He's actually going back and watching the videos. So you
got your metadata, and then you've got the entertainment factor
And on a recent podcast that we talked about the
other day, what is.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
It?
Speaker 4 (21:28):
No, it's a zamir and.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Yeah, so he's on this podcast, he's doing this thing
and he goes, yeah, I'm watching my old videos, and
I'm like, why.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Am I yelling?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Why am I screaming? Why? You know, there's not a
there's no point to take a breath. Space is okay?
Speaker 5 (21:46):
And Jimmy is starting to see that, and he's getting
that not by looking at the analytics, but he's getting
at it by taking a step back and actually watching
what he's done. That's why I'm not a big fan
of AI. You know, I've seen all the Terminator movies.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
I know where it is.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
It's not good for us. So we need to be careful.
But we need to grasp on to the human element
of what we're doing.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
What we need. The best way to.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
Communicate with anybody anytime, whether it's business or politics or
personal or anything a cooking show, the best way to
communicate is emotionally right, and when the computers understand human emotion,
good luck, because we don't even understand it.
Speaker 7 (22:32):
Yeah, it's true, and we've seen that in tagging even
like when you tag music, how does.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Music is?
Speaker 7 (22:41):
But how you can teach you what rock is and
what a tempo is? But how do you explain heartbreak?
And how many genres does heartbreak cross? Just on the
Beasting Chris is absolutely spot on. He basically watched the analytics.
He obsessed so much though I need a cut or
a format explanation of thirty seconds or if not twenty seconds,
(23:02):
otherwise people drop off. And it's became it's start giving
him headaches to watch the content because it was so fast.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
But mister Beasts is a regular user of Licks.
Speaker 7 (23:12):
He's our biggest customer that goes without saying any software
he uses, he's that software's.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Biggest customer, of course. But their team came to us.
Speaker 7 (23:20):
I spent a day actually out of their campus in Greenville,
North Carolina, about ten days ago.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
It's amazing what they're doing out there.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
He's got three hundred and seventy star four hundred acres
of land, six studios and it's really incredible. But they're
talking about elevating the level of their content right and
the sidemen out of the UK are having the same
conversations with us, and one of the best ways and
simplest ways to do that is through music, because at
any point in when your storytelling, if you think about
(23:48):
the best storytellers you know in your friendship group, the raconteurs,
they're able to bring you into the story. They're able
to create an emotional connection so you feel like you're there.
And one of the easiest ways to do that is
to use a song that you know is going to
create an emotion, a song associated with an event, a
song associated with the time in your life. Because more
than like this also evoking nostalgia with the viewer, and
(24:10):
if the viewer feels emotionally connected to the content, then
they're going to watch for longer. And what we've seen,
particularly through things like fitness videos or sports content, that
the move from stock music to famous music is paying
for itself because people are commenting about the music use
in under the video. People are watching longer and sharing
(24:34):
videos because of how it made them feel, and all
of those analytics drive you into the algorithm. If you're
driven into the algorithm, you get promoted and you get
more revenue. So we see people come into litt, come
in at the entry point price bracket, start using and
very quickly migrate up the prize bands that and not
be concerned about it because the music starts to pay
for itself.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
It's an interesting phenomenon.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
Well, it's interesting about this discussion about mister Beast and
his analytics and Chris's dislike for AI. What's really important
for us as creators to keep in mind is that
it's so easy to get caught up in the analytics
and it's so easy to get caught up in the
technology of the AI that you forget why you're doing
(25:16):
what you're doing. You forget to be a creator, you
forget to be a creative person. And if you start
letting your obsession of the AI tools or your obsession
of your analytics, not that it's not important, that stuff
is all important, but if you let that stuff start
dictating what you do as a creator, then you're only chasing.
You're chasing mister Beast and you're never going to catch him.
(25:39):
So use all that stuff, leverage all that stuff. But
as a creator, you've got to touch keep in touch
with why you're creating and what you're trying to do
and the story you're trying to tell.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Let that stuff support you, not driving.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
Have you ever heard Casey Nystat talk about the mist
beastification of YouTube because the number one creator in the
world made his content a cert of way and it
was so fast and he was screaming. Everyone started mimicking it.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
And it's turned into a bit of a shit show.
Speaker 7 (26:11):
And even Jimmy's looking back on his content now and going,
I would just have to relax a bit more when
I'm watching my own content.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Well, it was super ironic for me.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Is the same month I heard Casey talk about or
coin the term.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Maybe he didn't coin beastification. The same month I hear
Jimmy go, yeah, I'm over it.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
But doesn't mean that he's at risk of creating more
boring content.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
That's the other end of the spectrum. No, I think
it's the perfect mix.
Speaker 7 (26:38):
The guy he was talking about about using the analytics
to drive optimizations but understanding what it is to be
a viewer and what it's what the experience is like
watching the content.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Be a human before you lean into So does that.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Mean that from a psychology standpoint and the expectations of
the audience are shifting?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Right?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Is it based on Chris? What do you think? What's
it based on? Why are we shifting towards more emotional content,
less kind of flash bang pow type content that mister
Beasts has been doing.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
I don't know that we are. Let's see if Jimmy
can pull it off. Pasification is explosions and no breaths.
So when you do your podcast, do you edit the
breaths out or do you just gate him out?
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Or do you just let him fly?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
What do you usually just let him fly?
Speaker 4 (27:23):
Especially?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I just wanted to do a podcast.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I wanted to get that EUI of the way.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
So we got to see if Jimmy's successful, if he
can actually slow things down and he could take a
seven minute video make it into.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
A twelve minute video and retain the audience.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Awesome? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Or is he just growing up and getting a little
more conservative in his content?
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I wonder he may be.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I know, is there any comment on that that maybe
this is the natural evolution of a.
Speaker 6 (27:52):
Content that plays a big part in it. But I
wouldn't call it grow it. How did you phrase it?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Getting older, growing up thinking a little.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
He's he's thinking about what he's doing, and he's nobody
wants to be stagnant doing the same thing.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Forever.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I saw that the broadcast industry to some degree, or
the streaming platforms were embracing his content now too, So
that means that maybe that's a sign to him that
maybe he's crossed the rubicon that he doesn't want to cross.
Speaker 7 (28:18):
Right, You asked before if YouTubers were learning from broadcasts
or if broadcasts were learning from YouTubers, And that's the
first sign, right, If one of the biggest streaming platforms
in the world is throwing nine figures at you to
try and bring your audience to their platform.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Amazon Prime has fewer subscribers.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
Than this debaate, He's going to a small audience for this,
and that's because broadcast needs to learn from contact creators.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yes, he does throw a lot of money around. So
that's the other thing too that's different than most YouTubers.
That is that a lot of them don't have the
money to do like a half million dollar prize or
something like that for a squid game type of experience.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Right, Reube, Right, it's not I mean, it's not that
he doesn't have the money to do it.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
It's just it'll be interesting.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
And maybe I don't understand likely if Jimmy's calling the
shots in because he very famously says, I put all
the money back into the videos.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I put all the money back into the he puts
it all he's eating.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
But if he's putting all the money, would a big
company allow him to do that, because there's a point
where autonomy gets squashed by the politics of a big company,
and that could be that could be the death of things.
Speaker 7 (29:29):
It'd be interesting because would be the first time that
he's putting out successive episodes where he can't take a
learning from one episode and implement it into the next,
because they will shoot the whole thing and edit it
and then it will just go live and be released
episodically or even in Win one Go.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
But there's a gentleman here in.
Speaker 7 (29:47):
The audience who should probably be up on this stage
with us, called Hayden because he was editing for Mister
Beast and people like Logan Paul in the past.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So let's let we just have a few more minutes.
But I just wanted to back up and just bring
to the four what the key takeaways are of what
we've been talking about here and what you can take
away from this to help you be a better maybe
content creator or a producer or something like that. What
are the important things that you've heard in this conversation, Chris,
(30:17):
do you.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Think AI is going to rule the world?
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
What does that mean? No, I don't. I think the important.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
Thing about editing, I'd go back to what I was
saying about finding that spine. Things have to have purpose,
things have to have a reason for being there. I
had a great discussion just this morning with my friend
Keenan about great television scripts, and to me, a great
television script is one where every word is important, and
(30:47):
you take certain things and you look at it and
you're like, there's not a word in this I could
take out that wouldn't affect the quality of it right
to the downside. And you find that spine and you
remain true to it, and you keep the emotion in
the forefront.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, Garrett, here for me take away.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
Chris has mentioned this spine analogy several times, and I
don't mean to be corny, but if it has to
have a spine, it also has to have a heart.
And that's the most important thing to me is that
you bring the heart to your production. You bring the
heart to what you're creating, and nobody else can do that.
You can do that better than mister beasts can do that.
(31:27):
Let mister beasts do what mister beast does.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
You do what you do.
Speaker 6 (31:31):
You learn from what he does, you learn from what
other people do, and then you bring it your own
heart and you create something. That's what it's really all about.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
I would say that great content evokes emotions, and one
of the best ways to evoke emotions is creating a
rap pol with your viewer. And a way to do
that is to use great fucking music. Guy Ritchie once said,
if you watch a great film, it's fifty percent the
visuals of fifty percent of the music, right, And that's
why his soundtracks are always epic in fact, than the content.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Most of the time.
Speaker 7 (32:01):
Let's be honest and really putting value on the music
choices you make and the music you can use to
help tell your story is going to benefit your content,
no end.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
So one last or towards the end here topic that
I wanted to mention too is as we think about
shorts and longer form content in the production side. So
we have TikTok, we have YouTube, we have shorts on
a variety of different platforms. How do you walk that
line these days with content and your post production and
(32:33):
your editing and all this kind stuff like that to
make all that work together. Chris, do you have any
thoughts on that one.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
I am pretty old school.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
I know that a lot of people want to have
a button or a thing or a tool that's just
gonna seek it out and find it and automate, automate.
I tend to work very old school, and I'm going
to go through the content and I'm gonna I might
market as i'm doing it. God, it'd be a good
clip or something that'd be a good lift for later.
(33:03):
And I'm not looking for a magic button that makes
everything vertical.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
I'm gonna do. I still work, and I think that
there's a place for that.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
And I'm not saying it's wrong, but I think that
I might be more worried about retiring than doing things quicker.
And so I'm not so much worried about all those things.
But it's okay to work. Editorial is a job.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
There's a reason why I get paid. I do a
lot of.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Things for you, and I'm doing a lot of things
for you that you probably don't.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Realize I'm doing for you.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
And I think when you have that relationship with your editor,
you realize you got to lean on that person and
they're going to cover a lot of stuff for you
that you're not even cognizant of.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, because it does seem like that the short form
content that we're seeing in the market today is not
really always being seen as a referential medium to longer
form content, though I'm seeing some overlap there where people
will become a customed to your brand and who you
are and your message in the shorts, and that may
translate into consumption of the longer form content. But as
(34:08):
you look at the tooling side, Gary, how do you
guys think about shorts versus longer form content? Are you
guys building that short capability into the tools?
Speaker 6 (34:16):
The tool can do whatever you want it to do.
That's not the issue to me. The issue is there's
it's become a bit of a meme now in the
business world. But start with your why are you doing
what you're doing? If you start from there, if you
start from your message and you decide what it is
you're trying to do and why you're trying to do it,
then you can then figure out how you're going to
(34:39):
deliver it and whether that's a short, or whether that's
a nine x sixteen or sixteen by nine or a
square for Instagram or whatever. But if you start there
instead of starting with why you're doing what you're doing it,
you're just chasing shadows.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 7 (34:54):
And I would add to that, just be thematically consistent
of course, on the platforms. Right, if people are watching
you long form because you provide real value on a
specific topic, don't go start making shorts that are about
something completely different like reaction videos.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Use it as a promo.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
Toe'll find out where you're earning your money, where you're
earning your income, if it's brand paying you because of
your Instagram or if it's had sense from YouTube, and
then use the other verticals to drive traffic to that
one base.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I think the other part of this too, and I
don't know if you can hear me, but is that
a lot of AI tools are being utilized to create
shorts now and yeah, and it seems like that they're
still struggling to find those cutpoints that are optimal and
it's not always the best experience, and it drives people
(35:41):
back to maybe putting up short form content that's less optimal.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
I don't know what you think about.
Speaker 6 (35:47):
The AI can't do it for you. AI can help
you do it. You still got to do it yourself.
You still have to correct the mistakes that AI is
going to make. Maybe someday AI will magically do it,
but then it's no fun.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Right, Let's go in and take a couple of questions.
If anybody in the audience wants to ask any of
our terrific panelists any questions on some of the things
we've talked about, just raise your hand.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
If you want to make a comment, speak again. I
won't be speaking again.
Speaker 7 (36:19):
I'm speaking on Tuesday here at eleven am about eggs.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, And I'm doing a workshop for stream Yard here
at four o'clock today here in the same area here.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
I'm going to be making some shelves in my friend
Keenan's garage later this week, So if you want to
drop by, we could have a chat.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, does anybody else have a question about editing or
tools or AI or what you guys are saying licensing person, Yeah,
there you go. There's a topic that that triggered some interest. Yes,
I think we've got a couple of questions in the
back there.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
I don't take it from the guys.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I don't think think license.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Ah, Jesus, this is gonna go bad. Maybe I get.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Good, all right, if you don't have any questions? All right.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
There was a lot of fears and a lot of thinking,
and we talked before about oh yeah, and I.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Think welcome around and you guys should get you few
opened by some of our exhibitors. You guys should think
about more short form and is there a right form?
Speaker 1 (37:31):
I believe you watched short form and then you short
but did you find out a little more about that?
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Thank you, Thank you all for being here and spending
time with Thank you. Thanks to Chris, Gary and Paul
for taking their time out to share.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Thanks the inspiration, Spoken Word, Tech Connection, Spoken Light, Boken
Spoken Light, Spoken Light, Spoken Lights with Rob Greenley with
(38:08):
Rob Greenley with Rob green
Speaker 2 (38:16):
MHM
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