IT: Welcome To Derry |1x04 "The Great Swirling Apparatus of Our Planet's Function"

Some shows keep a tight lid on their mysteries. Not this one. Their thought process must be, "Let's flood them with so many answers, it'll only inspire far more questions." We see what The Shining looks like with Dick Hallorann. We have a better understanding of Pennywise's reach and limitations. And we may have even discovered some major easter eggs!

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Oh, hi there. It's your friend Dave again.
From Squawking Dead here to intro yet another episode.
Strange episode without me from Squawking Dead.
This one, we will be discussing it.
Welcome to Derry's fourth episode of this inaugural
season. And, well, I'm not going to say

(00:20):
the title because I'm going to mess it up, but what I will say
is this is yet another episode edited entirely via Riverside.
Yeah, many other fascinating, wonderful tools.
Now, it's not perfect, obviously, it's not perfect, but
I want to show you how perfect it can be with just literally a
few minutes of your time. Now, I say all this to warn you

(00:45):
that this isn't the same qualityI said this last time.
Actually, I said this only a fewminutes ago, yet I, because I am
recording this twice. You'll have noticed that if
you're watching Pluribus that I use the same intro for that
episode and well, I'm here againon the very same, like little
minutes later recording this forthe next episode because I can,

(01:08):
I can edit these episodes through Riverside probably about
thousands of times faster and you can do the same if you so
choose. In any case, I hope you enjoy
this episode without me. Your your friend Dave.
I do miss you, but hey, it's a good vacation for you from me

(01:29):
and also a great opportunity to see how well the rest of the
gang did without me. Though I did catch a little bit
when I reviewed some of the footage 'cause I haven't
Riverside edited most of it. I thank my hosts Sharon D Rachel
for saying that they missed me. Really is felt and appreciated.
Been going through a tough time and I hope you've missed me too

(01:51):
'cause you know, it'd be nice tofeel wanted every now and again.
Let me know in the comments. You can tell it's actually 4:00
AM on a Friday morning. I hope you've enjoyed these
episodes and let us know if you do.
And like I said in the last intro, if you actually are OK

(02:12):
with this level of quality. I can, with a little bit more
time, improve upon this and release these episodes far
faster than we would normally. It's great for you, it's great
for us, and that's really all I wanted to say.
I enjoy this episode with Bridget, Rachel, and of course,

(02:37):
our wonderful Whispers member, Rob Lucasey.
And if you want to join the Whispers tier, it's a little
membership that we have to support our podcast.
You too can join in on the fun with a camera mic and lend us
your thoughts that the world canhear.

(02:58):
Take care. I'll see you on the other side
and hopefully I'll be in the next few episodes.
Wouldn't that be nice? Take care and take it away gals
and guy. Is this pigeon?
I. Was like, wow, OK dude, like are
you really mad about this? What's going on?

(03:30):
We are squawking dead, a podcastpulverizing programs beyond The
Walking Dead. Sometimes we bring your news.
Sometimes we make you laugh. Most times we go deep.
Today I am Cosmo Mom 09. I'm Bridget.
You can find me at youtube.com, Slash at Punky Brewster.
That's PUNKYBRUISETER. And I'm Rob at Rob stuff and

(03:51):
things over on TikTok and YouTube.
We're going to talk to you aboutthe fourth episode of the first
season of it. Welcome to Dairy.
This episode has the longest episode title in history.
I don't think I have ever watched a show that had a longer
episode title. And it is funny.
The great swirling apparatus of our planet function.

(04:14):
Was that a line in this episode?Yes, it was OK was.
It OK well thank you for that answer because I was like I
don't know what this has to do with anything.
It was the science teacher when they were watching the video
about snails and worms and all the insects and.
He was boring. He was.
Boring. You felt like every single kid
in that classroom. He sounded like Ben Stein and I

(04:37):
felt like that was probably on purpose.
Probably to some. Degree.
OK, I did want to start the top of the show off with.
There was a comment that was left on one of our videos by I
assume this is a shortened version of your name, like
Marigold Merrig 9236 left the following comment.
From my understanding it's not exactly 27 years, about around

(05:00):
27 years. And I did look that up and I'm
sure that Rachel will be able toattest to this this accuracy.
The same question was proposed in a Reddit thread six years
ago. Wow.
On our slash Stephen King, does Pennywise come back around every
28 years or 27 years? So I just started reading it

(05:22):
after seeing the movies and realizing nearly all of my
favorite movies are Stephen Kingbooks and that I need to get to
reading his works ASAP. And right at the beginning it
says the terror which would not end for another 28 years if it
ever did end, began. I'm confused because I thought
Pennywise came back every 27 years.
Tried to Google it but I can't find why there is a difference.
Sorry if this is a super dumb inquestion, I'm just really

(05:44):
intrigued as to why there is a difference, especially seeing as
the movies made such a point of releasing on dates that
coincided with the number 27. This was written by FL4M3.
Princess flame Princess. Good Lord Bridget.
OK I can read Internet. OK.
And Christopher Love responded with this very succinct

(06:07):
response. It is approximate, but the book
starts in 1957, while most of the story takes place in 1958
and of course ends in 1985. Later, Mike will pinpoint the
cycles and say sometimes it's aslittle as 25 years, sometimes as
long as 30, but usually about 27or so.

(06:27):
So an average of 27. Yes, but I thought it was
interesting because I didn't know there was such a broad
spectrum. This question also made me start
researching and I because I had 27 stuck in my head too.
I think the reason we're so stuck on 27 is because that is
the time gap we're we're dealingwith in the novel.
In the movies, it is 27 years. But yes, if you do your

(06:48):
research, you find out it can bea range.
I think that's actually kind of cool.
I mean it makes sense because just think of like hibernating
animals. They don't sleep for an exact
amount of days. They kind of wake up in a range
based on a couple months. That amount of time is always
different. Did you?
Eat real well. Yeah, exactly.

(07:09):
You might stay asleep a little longer.
OK, I don't really want to talk about the title because holy
guacamole, I told Rob. I said it's like the title of an
emo song. Fall Out Boy wrote this song and
I'm not interested, No. Kidding.
Holy moly. The great swirling apparatus of
our plane is functional. I don't want to do this.
I don't. Even know how to apply that to
the greater story. So.

(07:31):
Of the episode, I'm sure it doesin some way, but.
Not so much the the title itself, but maybe the scene
where we hear the line where he's talking about worms and
insects and how and how every small thing plays a part in the
planet's function that has relevance.
Something as small as a child could play a huge part in, say,

(07:53):
taking down a demon alien. Classic Stephen King.
Yeah, the children have the power.
Oh. Do they ever?
Every Stephen King. Yeah, Thing.
Yeah. If there's a child in a Stephen
King book, they're the hero. Or if it's Pet Summit, maybe
not. Okay, that's fair.
That's true. Then they're the villain.
That opening scene where the kids are in the police station

(08:14):
and they're showing the pictures, we all said the same
thing. Pennywise was gonna change the
pictures, right? Yeah, I thought it was gonna be
something way worse, so I'm kindof happy it didn't what I
thought was going to happen because I thought.
He was going to make it. I thought he was going to make
it seem like her dad actually did the murders and.
Put something like. That, but he didn't.
I had a suspicion because you know that rascally clown, he

(08:37):
just always messes everything up.
It was when their reaction was so over the top that I was like,
what is happening? Is this pigeon?
I was like, wow, OK dude, like are you really mad about this?
What's going on? He was so angry where his.
Grandson's gonna be a Dick. I am surprised that Pennywise
didn't remove himself from the photo though.

(09:00):
I think he did that on purpose because he was so out of focus,
you can't really even see that that's what it was.
So he was like, hey, you can putthis blurry photo of me in
there. They're not gonna believe you
anyway. It kind of looks like he's
wearing a cowboy hat. Yeah, like why is his hair like
so Crusty the clown? Like it's so far out.
Like that's not petty wise. It's Crusty the cloud now.

(09:22):
He's just waking up with that bed head.
Oh, it's been 30 years. I found it interesting when Lily
says whatever killed Susie, Philand Teddy, she refuses to admit
that Maddie might be dead. I feel like just because she
already has such a guilty conscience about her dad, it's

(09:43):
like her way of protecting herself.
Like she has to tell herself that Maddie is still alive
because if he's not, she's goingto blame herself for it.
And so then that's two deaths that's on her.
And she is so scared of going back to Juniper Hill that I
think she just is doing that on purpose to like, protect
herself, like subconsciously, obviously.
So she doesn't know that she's doing it.
Do you guys? Think it's possible that Maddie

(10:05):
is alive? No, the opening scene was
pretty. I mean, I've seen it and I
still, when I watched the secondone, I'm like, maybe George,
she's still alive, baby. I told you guys I'm like
eternally stupid hopeful until you and I are always like, maybe
they're still OK. Nobody's gone until they're
gone, right? Put a Band-Aid on it.
It's fine. It's fine.

(10:26):
So I mean, I would love for him to be alive, but like also at
the same time, like, do you wanthim to be alive?
Because what a horrible future he would have ahead of himself.
Not even that. Just imagine what he's
experiencing right now. Wherever he would be.
Living. He'd be stuck underground being
tortured by this thing in some. Way or another, I think he's
dead. I just think that she is trying

(10:47):
to console herself and protect herself.
It's not even weird because I can totally justify it in this
particular way. It is still weird that we don't
see the ghost of Maddie or Phil in the graveyard, right?
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
It was like they couldn't get the actors back.
For that episode. I don't, Right.
I mean, there's, yeah, if there's not a storyline reason,

(11:08):
maybe there's a real life logistic reason why they're not
in that scene. Yeah.
I don't know. I don't know.
It's it's wild. I mean, I keep going back to
like, just all these teeny little things, right?
Like Maddie and Phil weren't rotten on the cereal boxes in
the grocery store scene or and we don't see their ghosts in the
graveyard and just all these little things that keep lining

(11:30):
up but that just, you know, makes you go.
I don't know if that's part of Pennywise game too though.
That's true, because that might be his way of giving Lily hope
that Maddie's still around, because she might have noticed
that he didn't decay on the box.Giving her that little bit of
hope. Does that then pay off more for
him later? Then puts her more into wanting

(11:50):
to keep pursuing what she's pursuing, get her more scared on
the way there, and actually get what he wants.
Maybe false hope has a delicioustaste to it.
Maybe. So gross.
It is gross. Will I love that he's so book
smart. I'm glad that we have that in
him to receive that information about the I mean, we all know

(12:13):
that that's true about predators, but to hear a kid
talk about it was just really cool.
And to be able to put that together so quickly.
Why does it want to scared all the time?
It's really interesting. So I was excited to see that.
I'm glad that we have that this character is servicing that that
portion. He's meant to be the book smart
kid that kind of figures all of it out.
Yeah. I have a question, if I'm
remembering this correctly, did Mike feel guilty over his

(12:36):
parents burning to death in the main movies or that was like his
thing? He's fearful of it, like the
memory of it. Yeah.
Was that his parents? As if so that means that means
it was. Oh man, yeah.
I ever thought about that last time I was like, oh wait, no.
I don't like that as an adult. What'd you do that for, Rob?

(12:58):
Well, we got to remember these things.
But also you see Will like as anadult slaughtering a sheep with
Mike and like trying to make himlike brave and like have him put
it down with the piston gun in the first movie.
Well, I imagine especially if you'd lived through all of this,
you would want your kid to be asbrave as possible in hopes that

(13:20):
that would be the best way to prepare them for what's
inevitably going to happen. It's so cool that his dad
doesn't have the fear portion ofhis brain operating anymore.
I was like, that's the coolest thing.
What a cool concept to introduceinto this world.
Because of course, there's like the die hard Stephen King fans
that are like, this isn't Canon.Stephen King didn't write this.

(13:41):
And I get that the movies, but it's a cash crap.
The two movies were very wildly successful and that was a cash
cow. And so obviously they were like,
well, we don't have anything else in the book, so make up
some stuff before and, you know,that character kind of.
Yeah, you're like that. Yeah.

(14:01):
I mean, he listed as an executive producer.
It doesn't necessarily mean thatmuch.
It means he's got his stamp of approval on it.
Well, to some point, although he.
Hated the shining up in school recently so.
They paid him, so you never know.
That's his part. They gave him a check and he
went, yeah, sure. So I get there being kind of

(14:21):
like a sentiment that like, well, this is adding in stuff
that doesn't need to exist or whatever.
But that to me, is a really coolconcept to add into this story.
I do really like that they're adding in, like Halloran, his
ability to shine. The things he's doing with it
are more heavily featured in Doctor Sleep versus The Shining.
It obviously is a prequel to those as well, but they're

(14:43):
really connecting even The Shining and Doctor Sleep as well
as the movies together, which I do really appreciate.
It just build out more of the Stephen King universe.
It's like, as soon as Marvel Universe was successful,
everyone's like, oh. Everyone's got to have a
universe. Well, you could have a universe.
We too could have a universe. Universe Universal.
Still trying to do that, yeah. They flopped so many times on

(15:05):
that. I know.
It's floppy, love to, right? Anyway.
Our next scene are the kids in the gymnasium and they're kind
of talking about like what what just happened, right?
The only thing I really that I personally took away from this
scene was what Will says they'retalking about.
I wonder if anything like this has ever happened and who could
we talk to it? Oh, Lily, your mom is is from

(15:27):
here. And Will brings it up.
He says the first thing I would do is find out if anything like
this happened, which is hilarious because that's exactly
what Mike does. It shows the clear correlation
between the two characters, which is nice because, you know,
they're related, but also it just kind of gives you that we

(15:47):
we felt like these kids were similar to the kids in the IT
movies. It's kind of meant to be that
placeholder. So Mike is Will.
Will is Mike. I like it though.
I do, but he's still his own character too.
He is, we just haven't gotten asmuch out of him as I would like
to. Unfortunately, some of the kid
character development hasn't super been there yet.

(16:08):
Now to be fair, kid actors have very limited train time in a
shooting day, so there's only somuch you can do with the kids.
But I would like to learn more. Overall, they're using them very
well. They are, and the actors are all
great. I've been impressed.
But I would like to just know more about their characters a
little bit more. Like we got a little bit about
rich, but not a ton. And so I would kind of like to

(16:29):
continue to go down that road where we just find out more
about them. Obviously Ronnie, probably we
have like the most fleshed out. We always.
Like a bit of Lily too. Speaking of Lily, on the last
episode when she's at Juniper Hill and talking to the one
nurse who's like, hey, don't pursue it, you can figure it
out. The housekeeper lady.
The housekeeper? That's Missus Kirsch.
Missus Kirsch is the old woman that Beverly finds living in her

(16:52):
dad's apartment. When she comes back, Whoa is the
daughter of Bob Gray. Did they say her name at all?
Someone pointed it out online. I didn't catch it in the
episode, but I'd have to go backand see if she's wearing a name
tag or something. But yeah, she's the daughter of
Bob Gray, as she tells Beverly. Obviously it is Penny Wise
that's telling her that, but there's a picture of her with

(17:12):
her dad on the wall and it's BobGray out of makeup.
OK, so I'm glad you say that because I actually wrote in my
notes. I felt like David for a minute,
but I'm like, is the housekeeperreal?
She might not be. She might be Pennywise telling
her you're like, yeah, go do your thing, you can find me.
And she's like, get a good groupof friends together and go after

(17:33):
what you believe in and like, and then like, Doctor Who greets
Lily's mom. He's like, oh, she's taking
quite a liking to the housekeeper, but he never says
her name or that it's even a woman.
The next scene, we just see themtogether making the bed.
And then the next time we see her, they're they're in the
restaurant, their diner together.

(17:53):
So we don't actually see this woman interacting with anybody
else. And I'm like, is she even real?
That's true. Or is it Pennywise?
Her name is Ingrid Kirsch. I don't know.
And also how do you spell Kirsch?
KIRCH or SH as far as I know, unless I miss something, they
haven't said her name. Maybe she's wearing a name tag?

(18:15):
She's. Played by She's played by
Madeline Stowe and someone did post five hours ago on our slash
it Welcome to dairy show Ingrid Madeline Stowe is misses Kirsch.
Watching the episode I heard Ingrid say my father during the
scene at the diner with Lily andI guess it stood out as a bit

(18:35):
noticeable to me but I didn't actually think into it at the
time. Then later I was listening to
the Losers Club discussion and how Madeline Stowe is a big
actor, this must be a podcast, and both of her scenes have
seemed sort of shoehorned in andpointless and she just spits a
bunch of weird platitudes. They theorize that something is
probably up with her character but they don't know what for the

(18:58):
reasons they were suspicious about her, her status as a big
name actress, the my fodder, herweird fake seemingly positive
attitude, and the fact that nobody other than Lily has
actually interacted with her. I'm pretty sure she is Misses
Kirsch. Oh, and fun edition that I just
read on another site last episode.
Madeleine character said nobody in Derry ever really dies, which

(19:19):
is the exact same sentence that Missus Kirsch said to Beverly in
Part 2. Yes, that's.
That's what I saw. OK.
It's pretty solid. So they're saying like the my
father is the way that Missus Kirsch says my father in chapter
2. So this is supposed to be like
that little tie together. I don't see anything about like
the name tag or anything like that unfortunately, but

(19:42):
interesting. That's that's a good.
Theory. Hard pull.
That would also imply that the little the female clown with the
similar Pennywise makeup from the beginning of episode 3 would
be her working with her father, probably with similar face pain.
I'm sorry. Her fodder?
Her father. Yes, her fodder.
Well, I feel like that math's not math in though, right?

(20:04):
Because that would put her at least around Shaw's age.
That's true. That's if she's real.
If she's real, yeah. It's just a theory, but yes.
All right, I believe our next scene, or at least the next
scene I took notes on, is with Charlotte and Rose.
Rose comes to drop off. What is she dropping off?

(20:25):
Whatever she purchased at the consignment shop.
But we don't know what it is. I don't we didn't see it.
We didn't see the thing. We didn't see it.
Now Taniel pulls like a lamp outof the band.
There's like a lamp and like a side table or something, or like
a little shelf. He's pulling stuff out, but it's
not a lot. And yeah, we never see it, so I

(20:46):
don't know. But it's something that was
purchased at Rosa's shop. I know, but I want to know what
it is and if it's significant. Does she run needful things?
Or if it's cursed. Seriously.
Wow. What did she have to?
What did she pay for it? Does Charlotte have to do a
favor for her now? Does Charlotte have to go fling
mud at the neighbor's sheets? It was very sneaky.

(21:11):
Smooth, but sneaky. How Rose, you know, is trying to
use Charlotte to get in and obtain more information about
the pipeline, which she clearly does not believe.
Yeah, no, of course it backfiresbecause Charlotte's like, my
husband doesn't tell me anything.
Just like, oh wow. I know it was nice to see them

(21:34):
interact and kind of get this feel from people who are maybe
being a little more genuine about this town then we see in
others where everything's kind of like very surface level, that
weird. Like, yes, it's perfect here.
We love dairy. This is more like, yeah, this
place is freaking weird sometimes.

(21:55):
So that was nice to see them interact in that way.
I did like it, but yeah, it was just pumping her for.
Information. I hope they can form an actual
friendship out of this though because they have stuff in
common. Like you said, neither one of
them are sugar coating anything that's going on.
Especially now that Charlotte knows a little bit about what
Will has been going through. If she talks to Rose about it,

(22:17):
Rose might be able to share someinformation with.
Her well, and they're both very,I'm going to say, politically
active. It's not really what I mean, but
they're both involved in movements and the politics of
the time. Rose is very heavily involved in
her tribes, like they say, you know, because she's the one
who's like, let's send the season.
And this is obviously her voice means something in their

(22:39):
community. And then Charlotte was quite
active in the South, as has beenbrought up several times.
It's revealed that she was arrested.
And that is a big part of why they ended up moving.
And so they do have more in common than they know.
I could see them becoming friends.
Especially after what Shaw and Halloran just did with her son.

(22:59):
Nephew. Yeah.
I can't wait to. Talk about that.
See I am just going to go on record because there were
several instances of this, but Charlotte was my absolute
favorite character this episode.She was the hero of this
episode. Stepping up for Hank.
Holy crap the lady nuts on her were incredible.

(23:20):
Standing up to the not only Bowers, talking to the to the
other guy when she comes back about making phone calls, her
conversation with Hank when he loses his cool.
You see her shock, but it doesn't really scare her, which
tells me like she's been in the middle of some stuff that she
can handle this kind of level ofenergy.

(23:41):
What's kind of interesting to see, like does she also, I mean
not physically, not actually, but is she also fearless?
Yeah. So it's just kind of interesting
to see this side of her because all we've really seen so far is
a dutiful housewife who's makingdinner each night and buying the
furniture for the new home and taking care of her son.
And so it's interesting to see this other side to her that

(24:04):
clearly was very active and doesnot care what other people say,
even her own husband to her, it's very, it's very black and
white. It's either right or it's wrong.
I love what she says to Leroy, too, when he's like, basically
begging her to calm down and quit making a scene and don't
cause trouble. She's like, I'm making this
country better. This is the country you pledged
your life to. I'm making it worth it.

(24:25):
That was a really powerful line because he's putting his life on
the line. She has.
She has no idea how true that is.
But yeah, what is the point of what you're doing if not to make
things better for you, for your family, for your son, for the
future of everyone that. You can help, yeah.
Oh yeah, when he went fishing with his son.
And obviously Pennywise shows upas his father charred, which

(24:49):
interesting coming back to Mike,how his fear is his parents
being burned up. Do we think after Will tells him
like there's something bad in dairy, he kind of looks like
he's not afraid, but a little shook?
I think it's. Because he knows they're going
after something. Yeah, I wouldn't describe it as
fear, but I I know what you mean.
There's a look that washes over his face that you're like, what

(25:10):
is that? And that's the interesting part
about this concept, right? Like, he doesn't have fear, but
he's also going to have concern for his son so it doesn't
eliminate him completely off thetable.
Pennywise is going to figure outif I mess with your son enough,
that's going to be the key to you.
That's with your family. But he's also presenting himself
to him with the red balloons. Yeah, he was able to see that

(25:31):
and then was on the tree later on.
Yeah, I hadn't thought about thefire thing.
So I'm glad you brought that up,Rob.
That's a really cool piece of ofsymmetry that kind of comes
through. That's a really cool connection
because I didn't even think of that the first time I watched
it. The way him and Will look at the
balloon floating across, I'm like, he sees that, right?
And then the second time, like, yeah, obviously he does see it

(25:51):
and then he sees it later in thetree too.
It's interesting. I mean, this is a choice that
Pennywise is making because we've seen these kids not
hallucinating because it really is happening to them.
But the kids will see something that no one else does.
Pennywise has that kind of control.
Why is he letting Leroy see that?
Good point. Maybe because Pennywise in his

(26:11):
own way is afraid of Leroy so he's going to try and stir
something up in him to either war him into a sense of like
where he can get at him or I don't know.
But it's an interesting take to actually have one of the adults
be able to see anything what's going on?
Yeah, yeah. I don't know if it's like
because of his involvement with Halloran, if he's like, I'm

(26:33):
going to kind of give you this. So that keeps you on the hook.
So you're interested, and you continue to look because the
more the Halloran interacts withhim, the worse.
The worse this is going to be because Pennywise is getting in
his head. And then Pennywise is going to
have access to the information that Halloran has, which is so
much more information than everyone else.
That's all I could think of. When he's tapping into Taniel,

(26:55):
when he smiles over a rose, I was like, what is that?
What is that Penny wise in here too, somehow viewing.
And that's, that's scary to me because that means that then he
could know also where the shardsare, which means that he would
be able to get out. Or maybe that's why he wants
Leroy to keep looking to then get the shards so then he can

(27:18):
get out. Maybe that's Penny Wise's end
game here, but it never, obviously.
Works. Sorry, I'm processing all of
this because yes, at the very end we hear the story about how
the shards are containing Pennywise.
But if that's true, he's still able to somehow reach beyond
that barrier because obviously dairies outside that barrier and

(27:41):
people are still being affected,The kids are being affected.
I think dairy. Is inside that.
Bed. It's been built in that piece
of. Land in the Northwoods.
In the Westwood. Yeah, or the West.
Was it Westwood? Yeah, it's the.
OK, OK. OK.
Well, that makes a lot more sense then.
I thought the same thing you didat 1st.
And then I was like, wait, wait,wait.
No, this is in the past. When you saw the smoked signals,

(28:03):
it was like a large piece of bigYeah.
So I was like, they must have built dairy on this.
OK, that makes a lot more sense.So if they're able to locate
these shards and drink that radius, he really would be if
they could get him back inside, essentially this, yeah.
The star, yeah. Or that he was like the star?
Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.

(28:24):
If that's the case, if he's afraid of these pieces of the
star, why was he able to get outof it to begin with?
Like busted open, right? That's true because we like
exploded and then he like where are all the dead lights float
out? I don't know, it's weird.
It is weird because you'd think he would be stuck there like in
that proximity. Just trust.

(28:46):
There's nothing too hard about. What is it about clowns that he
was like? That's the one I'm going to
stick with. It's.
The creepiest thing he could think.
Of yeah, like, because he appears as your greatest fear
and like, you know, then you're like seeing stuff, like
particular settlers and stuff, which was kind of scary.
And then brought up some things for me where I was like, oh, is
this like a gross, kind of like,rapey situation?

(29:08):
On top of that? It didn't say anything, but I
just felt like this is like a particular guy that you're
seeing. Oh, yeah.
Why is he different than the other guy?
Before they contained him with the shards, he was attacking
adults. He was going after the tribe men
if they came in and stuff like that.
So when they contained him and then they settled there, he was
like, well, they can keep reproducing and I wake up and
there's new food. So let me get this form that

(29:31):
kind of attracts kids. And it's also the most
terrifying to children once it becomes evil.
And then maybe kids get scared easier.
So the adrenaline more potent and therefore more flavorful.
And then maybe he's also realized that, like, it seems
like in this town, the kids go missing and they're like, yeah,
well, whatever. I think that's Penny Wise's
influence. Yeah, now I know that's his

(29:51):
influence, but it's maybe easierto trick them into things or
stir them up a little bit because they're just kids.
So our good friend, housekeeper Ingrid, even makes a point to
say, oh, yeah, you know, I guessa bunch of kids did go missing
in the 30s. But, you know, they were
desperate and starving. And we just, yes, went on to
better things. You think the kids, just the

(30:12):
kids, packed up and left and found something better, OK.
And there were a lot of missing kid posters hanging in the
police station. Well, it's just interesting
because I'm covering a true crime show on my channel right
now, Devil in Disguise about John Wayne Gacy.
And that was in the 70s. And even then, still there's
this concept that like if a kid is missing that they just ran

(30:35):
away. And that's reality.
That's in our world. That was a thing that was
happening. So it just seems like less
concern for the kids. I know that it's Pennywise's
influence, but there's also something to be said about in
our society that was kind of a thing.
Now, I'm sure some of it was like you say it to like ease
your own mind so you don't have to think about the big bad
things that are out there in theworld because who would want to

(30:57):
hurt kids? That's horrible.
But those people do exist. That does exist in our.
World. Well, look at Maddie, for
example, Phil, Teddy and Susie, that all are missing, right?
Because they never found the bodies.
Well, I guess they did find a lot of blood though.
Everybody assumed Maddie ran away given his home life.
But then the other three, they were like, Oh no, they
definitely got murdered. But yeah, I guess there was a

(31:18):
lot of blood evidence to come tothat conclusion.
So maybe my examples, not the best, but yeah, I don't think
that many kids run away. And it also depends on the age
of the kid, right? Like No 10 year old is surviving
on their own. They usually just die.
Right if. They're gone that long.

(31:40):
They just. Or they come back and they say
that a bear took care of them because that happened recently.
Stop it. That little.
Yeah, it was like a little boy. He came.
He was. Hold on.
Stop this. Is a real a bear took care of
him. Was it when?
He that's what he said. Was this kid's name Christopher
Robin? Hold on it.
Was a It was just a man in a bear suit.
Oh gosh. Oh my gosh.

(32:02):
Gross. I don't like this.
I already. There's a homeless person taking
care of a kid that he found. He looked like a bear because he
was a. Bear.
So in January of 2019, a three-year old boy named Casey
Hathaway. That didn't just happen.
OK, well, it was recent enough that I remembered it.
Shut up from North Carolina, went missing for two days, but

(32:22):
was found safe and claimed that a friendly bear kept him
company. He was found tangled in thorn
bushes, cold but otherwise healthy.
I'm sorry, how old? He was only three.
OK, OK. And for two days.
He was gone and he told family and authorities that a bear had
protected him while he was gone,which is crazy.
I actually kind of believe that a bear took care of.

(32:43):
Kind of do too. See, you can't be bad about it.
It happened. Especially if that bear had
other Cubs at the time he. Was like oh small animal.
I don't know when it happened. I remember being like what?
What? But also like, I'm so glad
you're OK, but what? So that kid would be.

(33:04):
January it was 2019. You'd be 9 now.
I wonder if he's asking him again if it was a bear.
Right. three-year old could havefrozen to death in a matter of
hours in January. Holy crap.
That's incredible. Found alive and well.
Insane. OK, so I want to go back to the
fly fishing, just super, super quick and air my grievance

(33:25):
really fast that Leroy did not have extra bait.
Dude, what was up with that? I was like.
What, like you, I'm sorry, I don't fly fish so I don't know
these things, but wouldn't you have actually?
You would have something, he's got this.
He would have brought the tacklebox at least to the bank.
Yeah, why would it be in the car?
And then I was like, how close is the car?

(33:45):
Because he runs back really quickly and is able to save
will. So it's like.
He hears A commotion instantly. The car must be fairly close to
where they are. But you would still think with
that fancy. Why are you wearing the fly
fishing vest if you're not usingit?
With 1000 pockets, is that not what the pockets are for?
They are put stuff in. I've never been fly fishing.

(34:06):
I couldn't tell. You me either, but I see like
the like the hats, right? You always see like the hooks
and the stuff in their hats. I still don't understand how you
put a catch a family and then put it on a line and then catch
fish with it. I really.
I don't understand it. So I do know when you fly fish,

(34:27):
it's like above the water, you keep the line sort of moving.
You don't just put the line in the water and wait.
There's like a. It's a fake fly.
It's fake. Is it?
It is a fake fly. Yeah, a fake fly.
OK, OK. I was like, how do they keep it
up? It's like when people have

(34:47):
freezed, they freeze bees and then they tie a little string
around it and it's like on a leash for them.
That's it's the same concept. That's why.
Oh my God. You're doing, but when it flies,
I was like, those are so much small.
Oh, my gosh. So 1, Leroy, why didn't you have
the extra bait with you? And two, why are you leaving
your young child alone in the river?

(35:09):
Here, hold my fishing rod and I'm just going to go back to the
car. So he's just standing there with
both of these fishing rods in the lake.
What kind of parenting is that? Leroy, come on.
Come on. Oh, come on.
You grew up in the 80s. Get out of here.
We were left alone all the time.That's true if alone in the 90s
and it's early 2000s. Yeah, it's not until more

(35:30):
recently that people don't do that.
We were left alone constantly. I was after school every day out
about telling my friends on my skateboard the whole day.
Didn't come home until dark. My mom never cared where she
cared where I was. She just like, just she knew.
Where you were, Yeah. Yeah, for the most part.
Yeah, long as I stayed on my street, I was on my street

(35:51):
somewhere. I wasn't on my street.
I was everywhere else. I was going all over town.
If I left my street, I would say, hey, I'm going to so and
so's house and. Then walked to downtown.
I wasn't close to enough to downtown.
It was a long walk, but we did it because there was a record
store down there. I walked all over Saginaw by me
and my friends. Just arguably much more

(36:11):
dangerous than basically. Anyway, Halloran and his friends
get their their little party house.
Their little bunkhouse. Their little, their little
bungalow, that's cute, that's fun.
I I think we'll see more of that, right?
I don't love that it's in the woods like that.
Yeah. Well, like he says, they won't

(36:33):
be bothered out there. OK.
And my question is, was that Pennywise?
Was it not Pennywise? The grandma, yes, I had the same
thought. Ultimately, I think it was.
OK, the only reason I questionedit is because it wasn't angry.
It was actually a warning. And so I was like, is this
Pennywise or is this actually some relation to him that's

(36:55):
like, hey, quit doing what you're doing because it's
getting really. Dangerous.
Even Kubrick, Shining or Doctor sleep.
They talk to the dead or spiritsthere.
Yeah. So is that real or was it
Pennywise? I think watching you probably
assume it's Pennywise right away, but then I kind of thought
about it and I was like, I don'tknow, because was it unnerving?
Sure. But it didn't seem scary.

(37:18):
I think it was just a his actualgrandma shining to.
Him. So here's why I think it was
Pennywise. I do agree because it did seem
more like a warning and why would Pennywise be warning him
right To keep him away? I think Pennywise might actually
be a little afraid of Halloran and his powers so he might be
presenting as grandma to try andget him to back off.

(37:41):
I also think it was Pennywise because in his flashes when this
thing is tapping in it seems kind of painful and I don't
think grandma would be causing him pain.
And mixed in in those flashes I caught what I thought were the
dead lights flashes and I did 'cause it and kind of go scene
by scene even slowing it down. I could be wrong but it looked

(38:05):
like the yellow glowing orbs. Sure.
Well, the Shining itself seems to hurt him in some way.
Even when he was doing it to Taniel.
Yeah, I noticed that too. You can maybe make a cell for
both, I don't know. Yeah, and now I'm left feeling
still unsure. Thanks for nothing.

(38:25):
No, I know it really. It really could go either way
honestly, but I'm leaning more towards it's Pennywise.
OK, Especially if we think we don't know if his grandma was
killed by Pennywise. We don't even really know if
she's actually dead, do we? I think she is.
Libra is also a babyface, but inmy head he's older because of

(38:45):
how old he is in The Shining. Yeah, that's the only reason
that I assume that he's older. OK, he is quite old in The
Shining, That's a fair. Argument.
So I assume that she has passed,but we also don't know where
he's from. Yeah, he's probably not from
Derry. The government found him and
probably moved in there. What was with the Debbie Downer

(39:07):
in the shed, though? Like, we got to clean this up
and everyone was like, yeah, let's do that.
And he was just like, no, this is terrible.
He's like, got your own place. I don't know.
He's like, quit, you're laughing.
We got to clean. Oh, OK.
If I'm not mistaken, he is probably the same guy who keeps
questioning Halloran's special privileges.
So either there's some jealousy there, he doesn't like that

(39:28):
Halloran gets these special privileges, or he doesn't like
the Halloran talks up these special privileges and they're
not actually all that special, it would seem.
Better than the broken tent theywere under.
Well, that's how I feel about ittoo.
But that guy might just be a schmuck.
I don't know. I don't really know.
Seems like this guy spends more time talking about it than
Halloran does. Yes, one, it makes sense because

(39:51):
if they're all under Pennywise'sinfluence, like the rest of the
city or the town or whatever, Dairy is technically qualified
as unincorporated. Is it the influence of Pennywise
making him feel jealous or angryabout all of these things?
Because does racism exist in Dairy?
Yes, of course it does. But is racism at the forefront

(40:11):
of everyone's mind at all times?No, that's probably the
influence of Pennywise. It takes the bad and pulls it
out so that it's prominent and the first thing always on
everyone's mind. I guess I kind of chalk it up to
Pennywise's influence to him being a jerk.
Yeah, because it seems like everybody else is pretty excited
and regardless, he still gets toreap the benefits of these
special privileges that he's complaining so much about.

(40:33):
I know he's like, yeah, these privileges suck.
OK, well you could just like go back to not here, just come back
to the. This place is dirty, it's far
away from everything and I want AI want a palace, the gold
toilet and I don't know like dude, calm down.
But I mean, it is far away from everything.
It is like a little bit scary that they're on the woods like
that. I don't love it.

(40:53):
I don't know much about the military or whatever branch
they're in. Air Force.
That's true. I guess they are all Air Force.
Do they not have like barracks? Like would they not hang out
where they sleep? Where do they sleep?
Sure, they do have a barracks, but back then you could hang out
in there. But to do that would involve
everyone else who shares those barracks and likely it's a mixed

(41:16):
race kind of thing, so they probably get a lot of being in
there. To.
Do that kind of thing. OK, which is why we see them at
the bar. That doesn't go well.
Then we see them under the rainytent.
That doesn't go well. It was already hard enough in
America at the time to be a black person and find a place to
be. And then on top of that, you add
in the influence of Pennywise, it's tenfold.

(41:36):
So they just want their own place to be safe.
And because there's not a ton ofblack people in Derry, it's not
like there's black clubs where there would be these other
places for them to go. Financially, it wouldn't make
much sense. It does appear that there is
like a black side of town, but it doesn't seem really there's
businesses that would be for blacks only.
Yeah, like there's not so much segregation as some as much as

(41:58):
just vibes. Yeah, right.
Yeah. Well, then it sounds like they
would want to be kind of away from all of that.
And and the farther away they are, they can play loud music.
They had a piano out there and they could.
Play their music. Really party?
And have their party. Yeah, exactly.
Whatever they want. Yeah, you could drink a little
maybe, but you would get in trouble for like drinking on

(42:19):
dates. If you get caught.
To the degree that they are because they're like getting
real drunk. Yeah.
And so that's another thing as you.
Want stocked? Yeah, you want a place to be
able to go to unwind, but that'snot really what base is for.
So the conversation between Hanlon and Halloran

(42:41):
specifically, conversation is kind of what it is.
Hanlon is like, obviously something's going on here, man.
I think you know what it is. You're not telling me
everything. And Halloran's like, I just do
what I'm told. And I really think that's kind
of his position. Like he does have that fear
receptor, like he does feel fearand I think he is scared of

(43:02):
Pennywise, which maybe he doesn't even know the full range
of his powers yet. Maybe we'll get to see some of
that later too. I don't know.
I don't know That would be. Cool, he knows he could tap into
people, but it seems like he hasto be right there when he's
tapping into that area. He has to touch something too.
So it does seem like maybe his power isn't quite as immense as

(43:25):
it we know it grows to be from the Shining or he's talking to
Danny. It just.
States away. When we see Leroy grab Dick by
the arm, what did you see on hisface?
Was he scared of Leroy? Yuri Express.
He's not someone you would ever mess with, so he definitely has
fear. Of I think it's easy to be
afraid of Leroy. Leroy has lived through things

(43:47):
that other men die from and has gone on to have No Fear.
That's like a really scary concept.
When we talk about No Fear, it makes me think of people with no
pain receptors. Yeah, it's interesting.
And you're like, oh, wouldn't that be nice if you didn't feel
pain? But there's also, like, a really
dangerous and scary side to that.
I think it would be easy to kindof be like, well, I don't know,

(44:08):
dude, They brought you in not just to, like, handle this, but
to, like, be the one to handle this weapon that I'm supposedly
looking for. That scares me.
So actually I'm not looking thathard for it.
I don't really wanna find it. Especially after you encountered
it and said we should probably leave this thing alone.
And he's milking it a little bit.
I get special benefits as long as I do this.

(44:28):
But also, I really don't wanna find what you guys are looking
for. It seems horrible.
You're making me do it, so I'm gonna do it.
But it seems like it's probably not something we want to get
involved with. So I think it would be scary to
know that Leroy was brought in for this project.
You'd be afraid of him because if I'm the guy who's looking for
it, but he's the guy that's supposed to take care of it, and
people are probably afraid of Halloran because of his power.

(44:48):
The ability to shine would be a scary thing.
I don't want people in my mind. Get out of there.
I'm not really sure how many people know what he could do,
but still. And he's already said he's not
going to go back inside Leroy's mind because he's aware of it,
too. Well, that's the thing.
He's seen something that made him be like, I don't want to go
back in there, dude. Leroy even said every family

(45:10):
I've ever known knows Someone Like You, but I've never seen it
in person. The idea of being able to shine,
I guess, is something that is a legend amongst cultures of like
there are people that can do this sort of thing.
All right, who do you think Hankis sleeping with?
Ohio, I think it's a. Character we've met.
No, I feel like it's the wife ofsomeone we know though.

(45:32):
Well if it's Bowers wife. That's genuinely who I thought
it was. Either that or the commissioner
guy that told Bowers to go afterhim arrest.
Him. He did have a special interest
for some reason. Yeah, I know.
I'm trying to think of all the female characters that we've met
so far that it could be unfortunately this, the scene,

(45:55):
Gosh, I put a real life case in my head that I didn't want to
think about again. And Bridget, you're probably
familiar with it too. Timothy Coggins.
Refresh me. This actual case happened in
1983. This young black guy went to a
club with a friend and he was dancing with a white woman who

(46:18):
was his friend. He was invited.
They were dancing and her on again off again.
Boyfriend and his friends did not care for it and they
brutally beat this man to death and the case went unsolved for
34 years, 34 years. These men were not held

(46:38):
accountable for what they did. They bragged about it.
Everyone knew who it was I'm sure, but there was cover ups.
Police at the time just didn't care.
They moved on. I mean, in the 80s that sort of
thing was still pretty prevalentin amongst personal culture.
Obviously there were corrupt politicians and police officers

(46:59):
and stuff like that still persistent in that time, but it
wasn't as widely socially acceptable out in the open.
Oh yeah, of course. But I would still say it was.
It was still happening. Southern United States, yes,
especially down South. It was pretty equal across the
United States. That is a common misconception
about the South. Actually, it was pretty rough
everywhere. Well, I'm not saying that it

(47:20):
wasn't. I'm just from what I heard and
learned throughout my life. That's always as you say.
If it's a misconception, I wouldlike to know.
More well, she's going to stay in southern state though.
This isn't going to help the South's case.
It was Spalding County, Georgia.Georgia, Yeah.
The reason I say that is becauseI had never met more racist than
when I moved to Wisconsin, actually.
Oh wow. And that's not even that long

(47:42):
ago. It was very heavily prevalent in
small town Wisconsin, and I had grown up in the South.
And so I was kind of baffled. I know it exists, obviously I'm
not stupid, but it wasn't as widely acceptable to be so
blatantly open about it. And so moving to small town
Wisconsin and seeing so much of it, And I'm not saying directed

(48:03):
only at blacks either. It was directed at Asian.
Communities is different, racismis absolutely everywhere.
But watching Hank be so reluctant to give his alibi, I
immediately went to this case, which, like I said, it happened
in the 80s and this is 58. So we're talking almost 30 years
prior where it would be unthinkable.

(48:26):
So I understand his reluctance. I understand why he's so afraid.
And when Charlotte's like, well,it can't be any worse than what
you're being accused of, but it almost is.
It's awful. I'm not going to speak on it,
but any further than that, but this does reflect things that
happen in our society and have happened and definitely would
have happened at the time. Right.

(48:48):
It makes it hard to watch sometimes it is.
It's hard watch. Anyway, but I want to know who
it is. I want to know who he's sleeping
with and if. We're going to No, Rob, I really
like your idea of the Commissioner wife, actually.
Yeah, right. I think I'm going to go with
that because I thought it was Bowers's wife.
But I'm like but Bowers is old. Bowers is also against arresting

(49:08):
him at first. I assume he's got some old bitty
for a wife but but maybe he doesn't.
Maybe he has some trophy wife, Idon't know.
I don't know. I feel like we're going to have
to find out though. I also wonder, they keep
mentioning that he's going to get sent to Shawshank.
I know. I wonder if they're going to
show us Shawshank, are we going to see him?
I think we'll see him in the prison.

(49:29):
I wonder if he'll meet any characters we.
Know characters? Yeah.
Or make reference to. Yeah, characters that we know,
like if they'll mention an escape, yeah.
Or if Jeffrey Damond shows up. OK, so if we're done with Hank
and also Charlotte's just the best.

(49:50):
Charlotte's awesome. Again, I really love her and I
didn't notice it before, but shehas the most adorable little
freckle on the tip of her nose. See, I had said that I love that
I told this to Travis. I said I love when women have
beauty marker, a mole right nextto their eye.
I think it's like the coolest thing.
I always wish that I had one. She has one right here.
And then it also reminds me of the girl from Twin Peaks.

(50:11):
And I just think it's like the prettiest little thing.
I don't know why, it's just so cool.
It's not a beauty mark, but I'vedeveloped an age spot up here,
so that's like, that's close. Slipper spot.
Yeah, so close. All right, let's talk about

(50:38):
Marge's snail eyes. That was the wildest thing I've
ever seen. Maybe we back it up a little bit
and start with why she's gettingthese snail eyes.
The horrible prank that the Patty cakes want to play on
Lily. I know it's so.
We all saw that coming, right? I was glad that Marred was
coming around to be like, no, I'm going to own up to this and

(51:00):
not do it. And then Pennywise said no,
we're going to screw with her. But so much worse.
In a way worse way, yeah. Well, The thing is like, there's
no way Marge isn't going to be like, hey, I did this to myself.
I thought the same thing. I was like she no.
She put her face in the buzz saw.
She knows Lily didn't do that toher.

(51:21):
So why would Lily get in trouble?
I. Have no idea, I don't know if
the Patty cakes a lie and say that Lily said she was going to
hurt Marge and so like it won't matter what Marge says.
You do have a lot of witnesses that's are going to say we saw
her holding and then, yeah, an instrument over her covered in
blood looks real bad. Even Will and Rich were like,

(51:43):
yeah, which, you know, they're friends are there and they're
like. They experienced ghosts, but
they didn't experience bloody gore from Pennywise yet, which
Lily and Ronnie have. So seeing that, they might wait
to something that he would do. Or is this actually Eric?
Well, I want to mention that thesnail eyes obviously happened as

(52:03):
a nod towards the Boring Sciencevideo.
Yes, obviously. Yes, it was weird.
I didn't like the pulsing of colors in the video and I didn't
like it on her eyes. It really creeped me out.
You guys have heard, have seen or heard about that kind of
snail parasite before? Yeah, I mean, I haven't.
I mean it. I assume it's similar to

(52:25):
Cordyceps. Sort of, it's actually like
instead of a fungus it's an actual parasite that Burrows
into the snail and like starts doing that to attract birds so
they eat it and then preproduce to their poop.
They look gnarly. If you've ever seen videos of
them up close their eyes are. It's really gross.
I don't like it. It's off putting to see why that
attracts birds. I have no idea because I'm

(52:46):
disgusted. And it looks like a wiggle.
Yeah, and everything about it was so gross.
And then the saw was also over the top and disgusting.
I was just like, I hate everything about this.
And clearly the only thing that actually hurt her was whatever
happened at the end with the little chisel.

(53:07):
Yeah, because her one eye is fine at the end of it.
Because at the end of the day, the whole thing, as much as she,
I felt it, saw it, whatever it was, all Pennywise.
And so you. Can make it go back to normal.
Why would you be like, oh I havegiant snail eyes, let me cut
them off. That's my first priority is
cutting them off. Right.
OK. I was just like, well, but OK.

(53:28):
But think about this. Have you, have you not ever had
a headache so bad you wanted to stab yourself in the temple to
relieve the pain? Well, yeah.
Sure, say I have. OK.
I feel like that's similar to what she was going through.
Or just any kind of pain so bad you wanted to get it off of your
body. Or it was like the parasite and

(53:49):
she was no longer in control of her body.
Maybe that too. Maybe that too.
Yeah. I found it incredibly
interesting that Pennywise did that to Marge.
Marge, up until now has been completely separate from
everything. It felt like it was punishment
for Lily for trying to outsmart him with the pill.
Like he knew, yeah. That's what it felt like to me.

(54:13):
She took that thing right out ofa piss filled toilet that she
just peed in. Yeah, I know, I wrote just.
Threw it down. I mean it wasn't piss filled she
had already flushed because whenit drops in it was clear OK the
water was. Clear.
This is going to sound really gross.
David, please cut this out. But to be fair, she didn't even
pee. Yeah, what was she doing?
She's like, I have to pee. And then like nothing.

(54:34):
No sound. And then didn't pee.
But I was kind of like, but maybe they just don't do that
because it's like a kid and it would be weird.
Yeah. So, yeah.
So we can cut, we can cut all that out, David, please.
Because that's, yeah, I literally wrote you don't eat
the toilet pill. I would have.
I would have done it. OK, but it wouldn't have been
effective because she told us earlier that her mom puts it

(54:57):
under her tongue, which means itdissolves so the second it hits
that water. It was dissolving.
Yeah, it's. But I figured it's written for a
grown woman and she's a child somaybe the maybe that.
Was my thought when they first gave them of like they're going
to. Take way.
Larger adults than that, that's going to be necessary for.
But also now that she's taken that pill, when she goes to

(55:19):
wherever, Juniper Hill, whateverthey're going to go.
Oh, she was on drugs. When she did, I didn't even
think about that, Rob. Did she take it though?
She reached in the toilet, grab it and threw it back.
And then she ran after Marge. I saw her like trying to fish
around for it but I didn't see her grab it and and and take it.
OK. Pretty sure I saw that happen.
OK. She does something but I
couldn't tell exactly if she hadgotten it or not, but OK.

(55:42):
So I wonder if this incident will bring Marge into the Losers
Club. Yeah, she's one of two eyes now,
so no way the Patty cakes are hanging out with her.
No. No.
And now, I mean, she's got to believe if that Lily, Ronnie,
the the boys, if they tell Marge, hey, this has been going
on, we've been attacked by this thing too, she's much more
likely to believe them. Yeah, she grew snail eyes.

(56:05):
I don't think she'll interact with them because she'll be so
mad about this and I think she'll blame it on Lily even
though she did it. I think she'll double down on
that because she cares so much about other people liking her,
but because this will permanently ruin her chance at
being popular, I think she's just going to be like, done.
I don't know. That would be my belief.
And it'll kind of be like, you know, when Pennywise jacks up

(56:26):
other people, they just kind of dissipate into the background.
Yeah, I was wondering if after this we just wouldn't even see
Marge again. I don't know.
I don't know. Is Rich still going to be in
love with her? That's my question.
He's over the top. In love with her, I think he
will. I know he seems like the kind of
guy that'd be like it's. All right.
I just love that he was like, except for Marge has the best
face. And I was like, OK.

(56:49):
Anymore. OK dude, I love that for you.
You're like, so you're so into her and so funny.
Well, we see Will unable to sleep, so he's looking at the
telescope. Yes.
And does start spying on the neighbors, which his dad
suggested in episode 1. Well, why not?
Something to do? Something to look at.

(57:12):
Right. But then he sees something
looking back at him. Pennywise silhouette, which I'm
surprised they've gone 4 episodes without fully showing
the clown yet. I like this little.
I like it a lot. Creep toward yeah, this build.
Yeah, yeah, People have commented about really dragging
us out. They got Skarsgard to sign on.
They're like, yeah, we're only paying him for like a little

(57:34):
bit. You know.
We don't have that big of a budget, right?
Imagine he'll show up within thenext one or two episodes, but
we'll see. Do we know how many episodes
this season is? It ends on the 14th, but I
don't. I don't remember what of.
December. Well, that's yeah, yeah.
So that's wow. OK.
So it is like it's going to be fast, OK.
I will be pleasantly surprised if we see him before the last

(57:57):
episode, but I'm not expecting to see him before the last
episode, but it'd be cool if we did.
I like this slow build. They're like, how many different
ways can we show Pennywise without showing you Pennywise?
I'm. Not calling anyone stupid or
anything like that, but I guess there were a lot of people that
didn't understand that Pennywiseis not his only form.
He doesn't always look like the clown.

(58:18):
So people are like, what's this mutant baby?
What's this thing from these outdoor episodes?
I was like, you guys. He took other forms in the
movies, too. Yeah, Mrs. Kirsch, the Paul
Bunyan statue or whatever. If someone is just starting by
watching this series then I could see how that would be
confusing because if all you know about Pennywise is he's the
dancing clown, then it would be confusing to see all these other

(58:39):
forms. Yeah, I think probably those
people just watched the most recent movies too, and so they
don't really have much to compare it to.
Whereas the Tim Curry miniseries, there was like more
because you got like the weird spider and horror of the
presentation, I feel like. And even though that was
presented in the newer movie, I think it's easy to say like, oh,
well, that's just horror Movies Now.

(59:01):
Yeah, right. It's like the jump scares and
these other characters and you hallucinating or whatever.
But people maybe don't know thatis Pennywise.
Every time. That's Pennywise.
He's a busy clown. He can be.
In many places, he's busy. He's taken out a lot of forms on
this show. He was a killer.
Moose, Yeah, he was the different blonde, like so like

(59:24):
bulging face. Yeah, people.
So creepy. Yeah, creepy briefs.
Yeah, that was terrifying. It was weird, okay?
That's why I said that seemed a little wipey to me.
It did. It very much did until he was
like holding her by the arms andthe and then the baby like comes
out of the chest and I'm like, what?
Now Wait a minute. No.

(59:45):
Why is there a baby there? Now what?
Whose baby's that? Who's who?
Why is Chucky is? Why is Chucky?
That's why it made me think it was.
Sexual a baby, but well, becausemaybe she had a baby.
Oh, OK. Do you see what I'm saying here?
I mean, kinda. Well, I mean, she did because
she went into the woods after her daughter.

(01:00:05):
Who wouldn't? I'm not saying that baby, I'm
saying like maybe another was different.
OK, maybe. OK, so like this guy, she's OK.
I don't want to. Yeah, I don't want to think too
hard about it's. Gross.
I don't. Like it?
Yeah, the thing look like Chucky.
It was weird. It was.
Yeah, it was very weird. It was.
So if we've lost anybody, it's because we've moved on now to

(01:00:26):
Taniel's interpretation of the Legend of the Glue, where
Halloran is entering the mind ofTaniel, which Charlotte was the
hero of this episode for me. But this scene was my favorite
scene, watching Halloran enter the mind of Daniel.
Holy crap. So when Sharon and I were

(01:00:47):
covering Pluribus the other day,we talked about face acting and
the kind of talent it takes to carry a whole scene just on your
face. And holy crap, I don't know the
actor's name. I should have looked it up.
Who's playing Dick Halloran right now?
I can find out for you. Hold on.
Fan flipping tastic his face in every scene.

(01:01:07):
Chalk. OK, Chris Chalk, first of all,
very good looking man and his facial expressions in every
single scene are just beautifully done.
I mean. He's very, very.
Much just the little things. I loved it in the other episode
when he winks and Leroy just these little, these little
touches that. He's got some of the most
expressive eyes I've ever seen on an actor.

(01:01:29):
Yeah, he's very good at conveying any kind of emotion
just by looking at you. I loved watching the the build
up to him entering Taniel's mind.
And he's remorseful too. He genuinely doesn't want to do
this. He's like, please man, just tell
us what we want to know. I don't want to do this to you
and he. Knows it hurts.
I was going to say and a little bit he probably doesn't want to

(01:01:50):
do it to himself either, but I love watching this build up,
touching his head and then. Moving.
Fingers and be like moving it over and the the music, the
score that goes along with it all.
Oh my gosh. Just, well, I thought about that
and I was like, how old are you supposed to show someone
shining? Yeah, they had to do something

(01:02:11):
because otherwise he's just like.
Exactly. So.
Awkward stare. They did do something.
It reminds me a little bit of Sean Spencer.
It's like a little, but I do, I do like it.
I do like it. I do want to mention the guy who
plays Daniel. His name is Joshua Ojek.
He was just in the long walk. I haven't seen it yet.

(01:02:33):
I haven't either, but I just sawit in his acting creds and so I
just wanted to mention that he was in another Stephen King
property very recently, so that's kind of cool for him.
I haven't seen it yet either, but I've heard really, really
great things. Yeah, I just was enamored with
the marketing for the promos where they were like they had
people on treadmills at the theater when they were doing the
preview, and I just thought thatwas so cool.

(01:02:55):
That's the perfect way to market.
This I would have done that. Yeah.
I would have walked on a treadmill watching a whole
movie. 2 1/2 hours? Heck yeah, could definitely do
that. I would definitely have to pee.
Well, pee your. Pants if you want the full
experience. Bring it.
Bring a run bladder. Halloran gets into Taniel's
mind. He's like in the center of this

(01:03:16):
room with all of these doors, but he's drawn to to this one.
I thought that was a really coolway to interpret what the inside
of somebody's mind might look like.
Right. So we see him go through the
door and it's Taniel as a littleboy and of course Auntie Rose.
Well, actually Taniel tells the story of the legend of the glue,

(01:03:39):
and I wanted to look up if that was a a real legend of any kind.
From what I found, it was not this was completely fabricated
for this episode, but still really cool the way they told
the story legend of all this. And he makes a point to say
millions of years ago. Rob, you had mentioned that

(01:04:01):
early on too, when we were covering it.
I mentioned it actually I think last episode because I just
watched the second movie and like says about 3 million years
ago. Something like.
That OK, All right. Yeah.
Yeah. So Daniel kind of confirms that
too. In.
According to legend, anyway. Coming back to the shards and
the border they have to make around dairy, that does answer

(01:04:22):
Dave's question of why he doesn't leave Derry.
Because we were wondering like why does he always stick to
here? Because he likes the vibes?
Or is he just he stuck? Turns out he's actually trapped
in a way. Right.
Is he in Derry because Derry is evil?
Or is Derry evil because he's there?
Not this chicken and the egg thing again.
Well, I think. That I think that is that that's
the answer. Derry is evil because he is

(01:04:44):
there. I agree because Pennywise was
there first and Derry was built on top of him.
Yeah, and he can't. Lead settlers just didn't listen
to the natives. Yep, don't go in the Westwood.
So what happens when somebody removes just one of those shards
and Pennywise can get out? He's gonna path out, I guess.
Yeah, maybe I like what you said, Bridget, early on about

(01:05:04):
the smile that we see Dick give.Something about it.
It was so sinister. That's all I could think of when
Halloran was shining into Taniel.
What if Pennywise is still theresomehow?
And what if he can see all of this?
What if he's like tapped into you now?
This is really scary, and for him to know all of the secrets
that you were trying to find outis even scarier.

(01:05:27):
My fear is that's what's happening.
I would like to be wrong, but I don't know.
The smile was pretty creepy. It was.
It was very creepy. So we know the reservation is
not in Derry, it's outside the Westwood.
So they don't get influenced by Pennywise.
Is the air base in Derry or is it just outside 'cause they're

(01:05:48):
looking for the beacon? Yeah.
I wonder if they're kind of on the edge.
They might be like right outsideof it.
Yeah. Or just in time?
'Cause he had to fly over Derry for Halloran to have the
interaction. So yeah, maybe it's just outside
the city. Well then, that would would
Pennywise be able to influence Halloran's Shining or be there

(01:06:11):
if they're outside of his range?Well, he did tell him to go
east, so once they turned back, maybe they were.
Talking about when he's in this episode, when he's trying to get
into his. Mind, I don't know.
Maybe it's straddles a line. That's a very good question.
Maybe it's built like half on, half off and then depending
where you are on base, yeah. That's possible.

(01:06:32):
Too, Bridget, I kind of thought the same thing you did when
Halloran gave that creepy smile over Rose's head and the weird
slow clap. Yeah, it just didn't seem like
Halloran. Yeah, I thought we were going to
get like a different camera angle and we were going to see
Halloran standing over in the corner, and then a second
Halloran sort of being like a double, like, here's the real

(01:06:53):
one, but this one's presenting as Pennywise the Taniel.
I thought the same thing becauseit was really creepy.
And from what we know about Dick, I would almost say like
out of character for him for what we know.
Putting on an act you might justbe trying to scare.
Which is possible. It's very possible.
I just have my hackles or whatever, like up.

(01:07:15):
I'm very wary right now, yeah. And I've only seen the newer
movies once, but we saw that Oh yeah in the.
Movie St. Oh yes, it's the house.
The old, the old well. Yeah, it's the old well house.
Which I thought was strange. If there's these 13 shards all
around, why is there only one access point?
That's a good point. I know they they go through the

(01:07:39):
well that's in the basement of the well house to get to the
tunnels that lead to Pennywise. I think that's the most direct
way to get there because you canalso get that through the
sewers, as we saw the Bowers could spit out at the end of the
Part 1. I also thought about when Mike
tells a story about one of the earliest settlers that arrived
in Derry, how they just disappear.
None of the people were left. Like a Roanoke situation.

(01:08:02):
Well, I'm true, Croatoa just ateall of them.
But yeah, Croatoa. Yeah.
One of the instances that he brings up from the cycle is
that, like one of the earliest ones that the whole town just
disappeared and all that was left was a bunch of blood around
the well house. And that's why the Nebold house
that looks so deteriorated has just been sitting there for so
long. Well, it made me think of this,
where the settlers went and and they were like, don't hunt that

(01:08:26):
wood. And then they all died.
Yeah, yeah, well, and they probably said it somewhere and I
missed it, but I imagine with every kill he gets stronger,
like any evil entity we've seen in every movie or show.
Gives them better. Yeah, it gives them more power
and maybe more reach, more range.
I guess but then he just lives off that for 27 years is the

(01:08:48):
thought. Yeah, so I mean, they did say
like at once they were feeding him that one shark wasn't
protecting them anymore. That's true.
That's. Why they go get more into the
barrier stuff? Well, that makes sense.
And I imagine there's still got to be some of that star left.
Didn't we also see that? Well, do you see?
In the movie The star, in that whole that whole area, the star
is where they kill him. OK.

(01:09:10):
OK. That's what I thought.
Yeah. And is it with a piece of it?
No, they just bully him until he's small and then they RIP his
heart out. Oh OK, they bully him.
Yeah, they just he's bullied. You're like you're.
Not even that good, man. You're stupid looking.
Your hair is. Ugly.
Your laugh is dumb. Your feet are.

(01:09:34):
Huge. And when you smile, you look
weird. Oh my gosh.
See, I, I, I, I always, I've said this already on this show,
but I will never get over the first half of the first It movie
because of Seth Green yelling, this is battery acid.

(01:09:55):
I'll never forget it. It's burned into my brain.
It's like one of a handful of Stephen King lines that I say,
you know, it's like, I'm like, this is battery acid or I'm
like, sometimes dead is metal. Those are my quotes from
Stephen. King.
Yep, some lines just stick with you when they when they write

(01:10:16):
it, they have no idea that's what's going to stick out.
And does that stick out to anyone else or is that just me?
That battery. Acid.
No, no. The battery acid line,
definitely. Sticks out.
I think it's just because it's, it's his inhaler and he's like
such a nerd and you're just like, what a dweeb.
It's magical too though, right? Because he believes it has

(01:10:37):
power. It does.
It's the power of imagination. I like it.
I like that. So I also liked in the in the
legend that Taniel's telling us it's Nakani and her friends
again, a group of kids. That are going, I thought that
too. I thought that too.
I was like, oh, that's really, that's so sweet that it's like

(01:10:59):
always this concept of friendship, this deep running
theme of like, you can do anything if you're together to
support each other. It's probably the sweetest thing
that Stephen King has ever done.So I don't really understand it
because it's like such a weird juxtaposition to everything else
he does, but he's always like, but kids are good and they're
good all the way through unless they're in pet cemetery.

(01:11:21):
Unless they're not, yeah. Unless they died and came back.
Don't touch that dial. We'll be right back after these
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(01:12:23):
what tier you join, the ability to join us on camera and mic to
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Thank you for hearing us out andmaking it this far into the
episode. We now return you to our
regularly scheduled podcast. Well, we don't have to do the
thing anymore. So no, we don't.
David finally took my advice. I said.
Just record something that you can stick at the end.
We've been saying it for years. So long, I know.

(01:12:47):
OK, before we totally wrap up onDerry, I want to ask you guys,
what do you want to see happen in the next episode?
Not even necessarily what you think is going to happen.
Are there any lingering questions you want to see the
answer to in the next episode? Well, I really want to know, is
Pennywise in Halloran's head? OK, so I would like to get some

(01:13:09):
movement there at least, but I have a feeling it's probably not
going to be. Like is this connection going
both ways? I saw the title of the next
episode so I feel like it's not going to step away from it I
think. This isn't really something I
want to see or like care that much about, but I want to see if
they bring up the ritual of Shudat all that Mike tried to use to

(01:13:30):
beat Pennywise in the movies because that was a Native
American ritual. So that did that happen after
this party of the balloon they just told when they made the
barrier or was that? Before.
Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm also very curious.
Does Halloran learn more about The Shining from the native
people now that he's, like, tapping it?
Because it seemed to me that Taniel was really fighting it.

(01:13:53):
Yeah. And that's not super common.
And so I was like, oh, he must know like what's happening.
And he's also conditioned himself to learn how to fight
against it. So is this something that exists
like in their culture? And then is that going to kind
of become like a thing? Because I'm interested in that
This, this show has nothing to do with The Shining, but it's

(01:14:14):
like a really untapped kind of area of Stephen King lore that
is interesting to me. Yeah, rabbits.
Cool that you bring up the ritual of Chud, because earlier
we heard Rose tell Taniel you'reneeded for something, so she's
almost like hinting at something.
Maybe him and his friends who are, I don't know.

(01:14:35):
We could. I don't really know how old they
are, but young adults. Still like do?
Like they're like either late teens or like early 20s.
Yeah. So we could still call them
high. School rather than middle
school. Maybe.
Yeah, like late high school, youknow, I don't.
Know Taniel looked like he was in his 20s to me, but he might
be. He might be 30, like playing an

(01:14:57):
18 year old so. Toby Mubarak played Peter Parker
at age 30. Don't talk to me about Toby
Maguire spider man. Don't talk to me about Toby
McGuire spider man. I am a vehement hater of Toby
McGuire, Spider Man. Oh I love Toby as spider man.
No, they put the webbing in his skin and I cannot handle it.

(01:15:18):
Never be able to handle it was disgusting.
Disgusting is weird. That's because it was Sam Ray.
That wasn't his. More body horror, no.
All right, it's killing me. Bridget.
What's the name of the next episode?
Oh OK, sorry. I'm sorry I did this to you.
No, I didn't want to know, but now I'm now it's eating away at

(01:15:38):
me. Niebolt Street or something.
No, it's the house. Yeah, it's about the house.
OK. All right.
So we're going into the house. It's heavily in the marketing
for the show. Like could save me for the last
time so bad. Actually, they'd show them a
little earlier than that, but we'll see.
I don't know. I don't know.
You got that Skarshard money. I.
Know right, that's what I'm saying.
HPI feel like. It is HBO Mac.

(01:15:59):
It does. Yeah, that's true.
It is HBO. All right.
Well, that's a wrap, guys. I think we did this one justice.
Good job. The great swirling apparatus is
the fridge we made along the way.
Yeah. All right, I'll let you guys.
I'm going to bed. Have a good one.
Yeah, me too. Actually, I'm not.

(01:16:20):
I have to fold my laundry and then I'm going to bed.
So all right, chores. All right.
Bye bye.