IT: Welcome To Derry |1x07 "The Black Spot"

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
What have you done with him? Oh, I hate him.
Oh, but he's still losing side of me.
Yes, he does. Why?
I I could feel it right now. Yes.

(00:26):
We are squawking dead, a podcastpulverizing programs beyond The
Walking Dead universe. Sometimes we give you news.
Sometimes we make you laugh. Most times we go deep.
I'm your host, David Cameon. I'm joined by.
Me Hi Cosmo 09. Bridget, you can find me at
youtube.com/punky Brewster. That's PUNKYBRUISETER.

(00:48):
And rob overhead rob something tings on TikTok.
Today, we're here to talk to youabout it.
Welcome to Dairy's 7th episode of its inaugural season, titled
The Black Spot. Are we all in agreement that
this episode was your favorite? Let's start there.
Is Is it your favorite episode? No.
No, it is for me. Why not?

(01:08):
Yeah, Rob. It is for me because of the
emotional impact it had on me, not not because of what
happened, but because of the storytelling elements and what
it made me feel and stuff like that.
Is it the difference between menand women?
Yeah, I guess so. Maybe I like to feel something,
even if it's horrible. Yeah, same.
It made me cry and that made me want to punch it in the crotch.

(01:29):
Yeah, none. I appreciate it.
Hey, Rachel, Somewhat the same way, isn't it?
Why'd you make me cry? I.
Didn't cry, I didn't cry. Who does that?
She cried. She cried twice.
Trying to detect any imperfections in her act?
Don't. Get me wrong, I was upset, but I
was also like, this was a reallygreat episode.

(01:50):
It was a lot. I turned into Leroy.
I'll admit at one point after a while, witnessing so much death
and destruction, my emotions just kind of shut down.
Yeah, watching this episode twice was like wearing a
weighted blanket. Because the second time you're
like, OK, I'm going to have to actually look and watch and get
notes on the thing. And.
And Jason says it got me in the fields, too.

(02:11):
Oh, yeah. Jason, the crowd.
Hello, Jason. And not even for the most
obvious reason, like there was alot of feeling and emotion
throughout this episode, not just the big horrible thing or
little horrible thing. No.
I say that this is one of my favorite episodes because of
something you love, Rachel, which is so many cool answers

(02:33):
and so many cool payouts. Origin stories revealed whole
questions that we asked in the literally the last episode that
were answered in this episode. I'm not trying to play favorites
with this show and from, but manwas it never more apparent.
Right. It's like it was mocking from,

(02:55):
it was like, hey, from get a little me.
It is, by the way, Musquietti. That's why I just want to say
that I actually wrote down how to pronounce it Musquietti.
That's what you were saying, right?
I spelled Moose and then key andthen Yeti like the mythical
creature. Talking about Oh my.

(03:16):
Gosh, I think creators Barbara and Andy Musquietti Musquietti.
Rob, is there anything in particular that you enjoyed that
made this your favorite episode?Other than my gut reaction to
just seeing Pennywise go ham like he does, I did really like
the origin of like Bob Gray and stuff like that because a lot of
people online were saying that Pennywise took possession of

(03:36):
him. And I'm glad that I've indicated
that this not what happened. He saw that the clown was
attracting kids. He was like, I'm going to use
that and obviously killed him inthe woods and Adam, as he told
his daughter. Is it obvious though?
I was surprised that there was no element of Bob Gray that was
insidious. Thank you clown community
redeemed I. Was surprised by that because
one yeah clowns 2. I'm rubber, you're glue,

(04:02):
whatever. Wait, OK, I.
Didn't know Dave, whatever bounces off me but OK sticks to
you. I don't.
Understand what people don't getabout this.
Yeah. But there just seems to be a
general misunderstanding that Pennywise is It, and it's like
no, It is an entity that exists outside of Pennywise and he
chooses the form of Pennywise that's like his preferred form

(04:26):
since he's a duct fighter. Bob Gray.
In. Yeah, in the 19 whatevers. 1908.
They built this whole ordinary story off of the moment in Part
2 where he is Bob Gray misses Kirsch's house where Beverly
sees him, and he's scratching his face and making the makeup
appear and the lines appear in blood and all that stuff.

(04:49):
So I like that they kind of built off of that little
throwaway thing from Part 2, this whole back story.
Right, not retconning, basically, yeah.
I have the book, but I haven't read it.
Is Bob Gray a player in the book?
Not really, no. OK.
Bob Gray is mentioned, but the name Bob Gray is in a couple
different Stephen King books I guess.
Isn't dream catcher maybe, but it's like spelled differently.

(05:12):
Oh, it's GREY. And then someone said they
thought that maybe it was in Dark Tower too, but he's
supposed to be like an alien or something.
Anyway, I think the name is mentioned in the book, but I
don't even know that you're toldthat Bob Gray was Pennywise.
I don't think so. Not that I remember, but yeah.
I just think it's a name that's mentioned, I don't think.
So really, it's the movies that fleshed Robert Gray out.

(05:34):
Correct. Or expounded on at least.
Yeah, well, and now they're bringing it even more to life in
this series, which, OK. Well, since we're mentioning
things that have been mentioned in Stephen King books, the only
throwaway reference that I wanted to push out was the
beginning of the episode where Clint Bauer says give us what we

(05:55):
want and we'll go away. Give me what I want and I'll go
away. Stephen King's Storm of the
Century Legion, Andre Lenoge Legion says this to the
townspeople. Give us what we want to go away.
Wow, dummy Dave with with a reference.
Sorry, Dave. And what are they if not Legion?
We are many, but we are. One book or a movie?

(06:16):
That was the the miniseries. Oh, OK.
Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen it.
No, Another miniseries. Great miniseries, by the way.
Oh, my God. You haven't seen it.
All right, All right. Dave's feeling.
Look at. I'm so proud of himself.
You have to understand my point of view.
I'm like, I gotta pull my weight, dummy.

(06:37):
Dave doesn't know anything really about the books, knows a
little bit about the movies. Watch the miniseries until the
tape went dead, basically, but that's about it.
It's only because I've like readabout it recently.
David. I've like not read Stephen King
books. I've told you guys that.
I've read a few. Like, a little, but not to the
degree that that Stephen King fans have read his books.

(07:00):
I've read probably close to 20, maybe over 20.
Think I've read 2-3, Bag of Bones, Gerald's Game,
Dreamcatcher. Yeah, Gerald.
Gerald's Game. Woof.
Mega Bones was a really good one.
Yeah, he's got over, I want to say like 70 something at this
point. Books.
I've read a lot of them. I have even more on my shelf

(07:20):
that I haven't read yet because every time I find one I just
grab it and my parents would grab them for me too. 65 OK.
Close. 65 Now that does include the ones under Richard.
Bachman it does or does not. It does.
Oh, OK, let. Me show it is him so.
Five non fiction books that's also included.
He's also written more than 200 short stories.

(07:43):
So as we know they love to make into full blooded properties so.
Like Shawshank, I want to give the makeup department a huge,
huge round of applause for making the gorgeous Bill
Skarsgard into a hideous old man.
Did you say gorgeous? All right, Cool, cool.

(08:03):
I'm. Sorry, do you disagree?
I. Don't disagree, Bill Scars.
He's no Alexander Scars, is it? Beautiful.
I'm going. To say, have you?
Understand how he's the same bloodline he's.
Fine, but you can pick between brothers.
You know what? I.
Mean two. Do I have to pick?
Bridget knows what I'm talking about, Aunt Wink, Wink.
No. He's fine, He's adequate.

(08:23):
He's no dancing clown. Yeah, I find him hotter in the
makeup. What?
Let's dial in a little bit on this, like on a serious level,
on the differences between him playing Pennywise and the photo
and the version we saw in the asylum and the version we saw in
this episode. They're very different.

(08:46):
Yeah. So the photo, he looks so much
more like a human being. He looks sinister.
He does does look a bit sinister.
I think he just has a sinister face, but not.
On that, yeah, yeah, He's got like a heavy brow.
That's just his face. But then in this episode I got
to admit I expected 100% becauseof course I play up my clown

(09:07):
support support group way up just to be like the antagonist.
I really do believe clowns bringshould bring joy instead of
associated with murder, but I don't really care that much to
be. I don't associate them with
murder, I just think they're creepy.
Well, I'm just quoting Rachel from last week, but I will say I
expected fully to see what Bridget said.

(09:29):
Oh, he's just a creepster that crapped on kids and meanwhile
the kids were bullying his butt after his performance.
Why were they so physical? I was I don't know who.
Raised these dairy. It's dairy.
I wanted him to bop those kids right on the head, just start
shoving them off the stage. Turns out Bob Gray was a drunk
but a decent dad. Yeah, he's mourning the loss of

(09:50):
his wife, right? Which?
I do want to point that out in the flashback from I think it
was episode 2 when he was a skeleton man, when we saw
Periwinkle off to the side. Was that his daughter or his
wife? He was his daughter for.
Sure. Was it for sure?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a still photo that you
can look at that we post it too.I can show.
It to you? You mean episode 2 of this show?
Yes, correct. OK, sorry.

(10:12):
I was like, did that happen? In chapter 2, Wait wait.
My only reason why I had that thought was because it seemed
like she hadn't been performing as Periwinkle yet, even up to
this point where she showed herself to him.
No, but I'm like. My periwinkle and.
Participate. At the carnival, Yeah.
Because otherwise she's not gonna be able to make a living.

(10:32):
She's a child. She did look very dejected too.
That's true. That's very unclown.
Like, unless it was one of thosesad clowns, which it didn't look
like, it looked like a very happy clown.
Makeup, right, Which I thought was OK, was objectively OK.
Maybe it's not objective, subjectively cute.
How pleased she was of herself, how hard she worked to make her
periwinkle costume, makeup and all that stuff.

(10:54):
It's still creepy, but sure. She kept her her mom's name.
That was very, very sweet. I still wasn't sure about Bob.
When we see him taking his makeup off, I mean, the fact
that he didn't start tossing kids off the stage, I was like,
oh, wow, OK, maybe he's not likea child killer because.
He's being pushed over to boot. Right, right.
He. Took his.
Thing I know, right? And then we see him like taking

(11:16):
the makeup off and I still wasn't like super convinced.
I was like, well, we're going tosee some kids stumble in there
and he's going to kill it. I'm still waiting for that.
To your point, when IT showed him smoking and drinking just
before the following evening, the same evening basically, I
said that's there it is. That's what it's going to happen
here. He's going to see the urchin,
That's what the crew called him and all that's he's going to do

(11:37):
something bad to that. And then you saw the eyes and it
was like, Nope, that's definitely Pennywise.
Yeah, the dead eyes. I changed my mind about him
after seeing the interaction with Ingrid.
OK, he's just a dad going through a hard time.
I mean the voice is super creepy.
Awesome job. Plus the lower register, right?
It was like it was different than when.

(11:58):
Right. It was like, yes, that was
obviously more comical and theatrical.
Actual voice. Well, no, I meant as as
Pennywise, like it's supposed tobe.
I think it was. Pennywise improvising on the
spot. Yeah, right.
But Bob Gray still has that inflection.
How he talks all. Week kind of gruff.

(12:21):
Yeah, one day you will be right.You know, like that kind of
crowd. And I miss it.
And yeah, I guess. You'd be more bigger than ever.
You could just see the sadness all over his face.
I could see why he was a silent.Clown.
Yeah, like he's not a killer. He's just sad.
You know, Bridget said. She's going to lay down for a
few just to kind of straighten out.

(12:41):
This is the situation in her Bella.
Literally straighten it out. Yeah, so he was a decent guy
getting bullied. Yeah, his wife was Periwinkle.
Oh, and you actually also saw a portrait, albeit a caricature
portrait, of Periwinkle in the background of his act because he
included the loss of his wife inhis act.
Yeah, sure. Yeah, and so vaudevillian.
Too. I was going to say so very of

(13:02):
the time though, right? Right, you included a sad thing.
Yeah, that dark humor was very prevalent in that time.
Awful things are happening. You, you got got to laugh about
it because it's too sad not to. So they said something so
interesting recently. I think it was Adam Corolla.
I think the uptick in despair isconnected to a couple of things.

(13:22):
I feel it's more physical than it is spiritual, although it
ends up being spiritual. We were meant to go out and work
and be on our feet and sweat andbe with nature and work on a
farm and mend fences. It involved engagement.
You had to sort of be careful oryou'd lose your arm from an axe.

(13:47):
And we took in the last 10 minutes everyone and we put them
in a cubicle and we fired air conditioning at them and we told
them to do data entry on a computer.
And we started eating our own brains.
They have studies that say, you know all the kids on Prozac and
all the meds and stuff. Hiking and classical music work

(14:08):
better than all the serotonin take inhibitors you can ingest.
You watch Little House on the Prairie.
No one was depressed. Everyone was miserable, but no
one was depressed. It's a disease of narcissism.
We're spending too much time on our phones reading comments

(14:29):
about ourselves. We're not wired for this.
Everything's great, but everybody's depressed.
But back then we had all the reason of the world to be
miserable, and we just got on with things.
Yeah, essentially going to your comment.
How are things great? Who's?
Great. Better than they were back then.
Okay. The Great Depression.
Okay, Dust Bowl. In comparison.

(14:49):
Okay, leaps and bounds better today.
Yeah, okay, World's hunger has gone down so many percentages,
sure, from from the way it was originally just 100 years ago.
Yeah, objectively, but and yet we're all depressed.
Do we want to talk at all about the the little urchin?
So Jason Fuchs said in the episode or Insider TM Bridget,
why the form of Pennywise? And then obviously the urchin

(15:12):
says. Well, no, we know that part.
Yeah, right, right, right. The children seem drawn to you.
Right, right. But why the urchin too?
To attract other children. Children are not afraid of other
children. Exactly.
Yeah, the additional layer of this, why even bothered even
writing this down, was the fact that this urchin was innocuous.
He blends into the background. He's just walking around.

(15:32):
You don't care. You don't want to care.
Even if you're above the povertyline, you don't want to look at
this while this urchin is off dragging other kids and adults
into its lair and eating them alive.
Because now there's a whole townon top of Pennywise.
Basically, in the span of 27 years, a whole town cropped up.
I think it figured out that if Iwant people to stay in this

(15:53):
town, I have to be choosy about who I kill.
There had to be some. I'm out of a town there already,
otherwise why would the carnivalset up and invite people to
come? Yeah, think.
Oh no, I meant over the years, not just.
Oh yeah, OK. Oh, OK, well, he must have been
starving for a long time, right?He's probably just eating
animals. Oh yeah, yeah, some reason why
you can't. You just figure out a different
method of catching them because they're not as easily coerced as

(16:16):
a human is. I wonder if he could just turn
into another animal. Put on a mating display real
quick. That's exactly what I was
thinking. Little Bambi scene where it
nuzzles the nose and rare then it just bites its head.
Tail anyway. But yeah, now he's got a whole
town. In the last episode, Ingrid

(16:37):
makes a point to talk about thathorrible day.
The way she said it, I thought she saw something, witnessed
something horrible happened to her dad.
I thought it was going to be a lot more than just a bloody
hanky. It was just that he vanished,
basically. Yeah, he.
Was gone. Well, to her it was horrible.
It was the only parent she had left.
Well. Sure, I'm not downplaying that

(17:00):
her. Tragedy.
And in that moment, she's convinced that it's Wolves until
he comes back. Well, no, yeah.
I mean, she doesn't really know what did it.
And maybe in the back of her mind and this is what happened.
She says this in the episode Don't abandoned me because you
have to think maybe in the back of her mind that it looked like
blood. But it could have been that
clown makeup member. He was drinking and smoking.

(17:21):
He wanted to wipe his mouth up. And then just like, oh, coming
off, you know, like, you know. Yeah, it is Manly gruffly.
Yeah. So what if he decided?
Oh, this is a good gig. See, Robbie, it could be that
that it is him. No, I ate him and he's forever
with me. Maybe he's in Dead Lights or
something. Maybe I.
Mean, I think that's how Pennywise works in general.

(17:44):
He always kind of absorbs the memories of those he attacks if
he can get into their head. So he has all of that.
That's why he knew to ask Ingridfor the bow and stuff like.
That I wrote everything down. Yeah.
In that conversation that Ingridhad with her, not Dad.
It was so compelling. You're not my father.
You're shy of him. What have you done with him?

(18:07):
Oh, I. Hate him?
He laughs a little, but he's losing shine of me, you know,
like that. She goes.
No, yes she does. Why I I could feel it right now.
Yes, stop. He's reaching out for his baby
girl. I wasn't.

(18:28):
Just grossed out watching the episode a lot.
With the fingers. Right.
Yeah. Doesn't kill her.
Hits her with the dead lights. It paralyzes her.
I was, I was stunned watching that.
I was like, yeah, wait, that is not what I was expecting.
Yeah, because you look pretty kind of pissed off a little too.

(18:49):
Oh, I'm a make a meal out of you.
I found a chink in your armor. Ingrid, realize that I'm.
I'm not your daddy. I was half worried.
But also, please kill her. Because let's go back to the
question I posed in the last episode.
We all agree that she orchestrated at least a lot of
this. She definitely orchestrated the
mob knowing where he was at the the black spot, but she put them
there. I knew they would come here

(19:09):
looking for him and there'd be alot of blood and pain and fear.
That he was here and you would. And you couldn't resist.
And you would tell me that I wasgood, OK?
So I felt for her a little in that moment.
Given the fact that we saw that first scene.
I hated myself for feeling that way too.
Why? She is very pathetic.
It is very sad. It was, but man, again, I am

(19:33):
operating fully on my theory that she orchestra to even
Lily's adds that in the Jarring Factory, I can't help not to
because according to Andy Musquietti, he says both the
inciting and the ending incidentare auguries.
So OK, I will agree with you so far as to say maybe she had
something to do with not Lily's dad specifically.

(19:55):
I don't think she set him up specifically because he left the
building and then went back in because Lily forgot something he
wasn't even supposed to be in there.
At the least, Ingrid could have messed up the machine somehow
because. When he went back in, he had to
fix something if he hadn't have gone back in there.
She pushed him. Somebody right, Somebody else
would have done it and then theywould have been the catalyst.

(20:15):
I don't think she was specifically trying to kill
Lily's dad. I think she was trying to kill.
Somebody. Somebody's daddy.
But she didn't know Lily forgot something on purpose or you know
what I mean. There's just too many what ifs,
not. Only that she was sleeping with
Hank and then ended up feeding him to the wolves in order to
get Pennywise to come out. I don't know if she ever
intended for him to be accused of murdering children

(20:37):
necessarily, but she was definitely going to cause an
inciting incident with her husband and Hank that was going
to cause some kind of violence once he found.
She knew her husband was a whitesupremacist, surely?
Sure, she had to have known. That could have been her first
idea to incite a riot and. Then she.
Just. But then all these other things
fell into place and she went, well, this is much better.
Wholly disagree, but that's fine.

(20:58):
I stand alone being the crazy one with my crazy theories.
Well, you don't think that sleeping with Hank was a tactic?
Oh. No, no, I that was my starting
point. But then I was like, wait, how?
Far. Well, no.
Rob said that. Rob just said that.
I will wipe that smile off your face.
I'll make you black and blue if you don't get home and wipe that
makeup off your anyway. Just kind of.

(21:20):
Stand. I'm sorry, I know that line was
horrible. I mean horrible, but it made me
laugh. It shouldn't have, but the way
the way he delivered it. It was the way he delivered the
full confidence because because you also know that something
bad's about to happen to him. So you're like, yes.
Yeah, famous last words. Jump.

(21:42):
Yeah. And then the way it happened.
I love that Pennywise just showsup with a giant cleaver.
There was no preface to that. He's like, all right, that
moment of him after he cuts, he cuts his head in half and then
picks it up and eats it. That's a Funko Pop spoiled.
That was one, but I didn't know who or what happened.

(22:03):
You just know that there's a Funko of him holding 1/2 of a
head upside down eating it. And I was like, that's a pretty
cool scene. I wonder when that's going to
happen and then. Right.
Well let me ask you another question because I had thought
the spoilery thing was how he looked right at the end with him
basically all red except for thehalf the face.
That was crazy. I did not expect and like, you
know, when he was in the pool ofblood and just like sleeping and

(22:25):
then he wakes up, I wasn't expecting him to still be
covered in blood when he popped up again.
That was insane. So cool, I I knew you'd love
that they have to make a phone call pop for that I'm. 100%
well. That's got to be like a crazy
collectible. But let's go back to that scene
because one of the best parts ofthat scene wasn't, I mean,
obviously the oversized cleaver,by the way, Stan Kirsch being a

(22:45):
butcher, There's all the things are great about that.
However, when you're taking notes, are you watching with
headphones? No, I'm watching on my TV.
Ladies and gentlemen, okay, if you're squeamish, don't.
But if you're not, please do because, and you may hear this
on your speakers, it's fine. When his head comes off, stand

(23:06):
still speaking and you can hear it sounds like a balloon sort of
a little bit. The vocal cords.
You know when you take a balloon, you fill it with air
and you squeeze it. It sounded like that.
It's a play. Balloon.
All right, I got it. I got.
To go back and watch it, so gross.
This is so gross. Gross.
But you know, here we are. I can't believe this is

(23:28):
happening right now. Me even thinking about this
makes my stomach churn. Really.
Yeah, you. Got a weak.
Stomach. I'm just thinking about it and
how old. That's what the human body does
without half a head. Are you trying to speak?
I just noticed that his tongue squirming around and I was like,
yeah. Yeah, eating his head upside

(23:48):
down like an apple or like he only took or a melon.
Right. He only took one bite and was
like, I'm done, let's throw it on the.
Ground I'll have the theme repeated too, because he was
eating the one girl's face. Noreen because I hated that,
never mind I. Do I have fish on my face?
That's. What I wrote down here.
I know there's a great line though.

(24:10):
Objectively great. It wasn't.
Do I have face on my face? He could have just gotten away
with do I have something on my face?
No, I feel like that would have been.
To make it a little different. He went to the Dave school of
beating a dead horse. I did not like it.
I'm a fan. I wrote face on my face.

(24:31):
Cringe. Yeah, not in a good way.
Oh well, can't beat him. Join him, OK, after Dick kicks
out Hanlon, when they have that conversation from his room, he's
like, get out of here, get out of it.
I don't want to serve your country.
What? Get that out of your boot
licker. Yeah, boot licker.
Right. Exactly.
Nice. Yeah, OK.

(24:52):
But when death and destruction surrounding him and he was
literally, I'm recalling a line from the interview that one of
you guys had seen of him. He says I'm determined to make
you hate me. He was about to leave without
taking the at least some people with him underneath the
floorboards of the refrigerator,which again came back.
It was like a checkouts refrigerator, how it leaked.
So he used the fact that the floorboards were rotting to get

(25:13):
out from underneath it. But he was about to go alone.
Thank you, I'm so glad you noticed that too because I put
that in my notes. I'm like, Dick is taken off
right now. Dick was out to save himself.
It wasn't until he saw Sesky that he stopped and was.
Say more? What do you think that was?
I don't know exactly, I was hoping we could hash hash all of
that out. Because he says the Hamlin I had

(25:34):
to. She is what gets his attention
and what stops him from just bailing on everybody.
And as he's looking at her, her eyes are glazed over.
And then they become clear. Well, like the other dead, every
dead we've seen him see have glazed over eyes until like he
says, if I let them know that I can talk to them by way of
speaking to them, they'll all come rushing at me.

(25:56):
It's like they acknowledge his existence.
They're not wandering aimlessly,they're targeting Dick because
he has the shine. Her eyes were the only ones I
noticed became clear. The fog lifted and her eyes were
were crystal clear again. Because he spoke to them.
Yeah, well, and then also you'llnotice the dead that speak the
victims after the also had cleareyes too.

(26:16):
Yeah, not dead eyes. There's weren't foggy to begin
with. Well, right, because he let the
cat out of a bag. Because he was inside Taniels
head. I guess he knows as much as.
Taniel knows. Right, Taniel knows, so I don't
know if he was just compelled todo the right thing.
That's what I want to talk aboutright there.
Well OK, so I have the context of the book for this.

(26:37):
Hey, all the better. In the book, Halloran is using
the shine to help save people inthe black spot.
That is the same, it's just thathe's on the exterior, not the
interior in the book. So this was written in the
Stephen King. Subreddit.
The black spot from it is one ofthe most unnerving descriptions
I've read from King posted two years ago.
Quote Trev grabbed my hand and Igrabbed him back twice as hard.

(27:00):
We stood there holding hands just like you and me are doing
now, Mikey. Him and his nose broke and blood
running down his face and his eyes puffing shut.
And we watch them people. They were the real ghosts we saw
that night. Nothing but shimmers shaped like
men and women in that fire, walking towards the opening Trev
had bashed with Sergeant Wilson's truck.
Some of them had their arms heldout like they expected someone

(27:21):
to save them. The others just walked and they
didn't seem to get nowhere. Their clothes were blazing,
their faces was run, were running and one after another
they just toppled over and you didn't see them no more.
The last one was a woman. Her dress had burned off of her
and there she was in her slip. She was burning like a candle.
She seemed to look right at me at the end and I seen her
eyelids was on fire. The way King describes the

(27:42):
factors that build up into this passage are incredible.
He introduces Dick Halloran, whomost of us know has the shine
and most likely the reason Will and the others didn't die.
Again, the timing is off. He talks about more people
showing up at the club each day,the racism and adversity they
faced from the Sergeant, and howthe black spot was the one place
where white and black people could get along.

(28:03):
And then it all just comes crashing down.
I think what I like most about the Side Story is how we'll
declined to talk about it for solong.
So we got curious, wondering what really happened until he
finally talked about it on his deathbed.
I would be lying if I said I didn't have any trouble sleeping
last night because I kept imagining these two passages
buried deep in my mind. Quote, there was maybe 40 or 50

(28:25):
people out there, some of them crying, some of them puking,
some of them screaming, and someof them doing all three things
at once. It seemed like others were
laying on the grass, fainted, dead away from with the smoke.
The door was shut and we heard people screaming on the other
side, screaming to let him out out for the love of Jesus.
They were burning up. And quote, this is the second
quote. Some people have gotten out.

(28:45):
And then they started to jam up at that door and push and the
door got slammed shut and the ones in the back and pushing
forward to get away from the fire and everyone got jammed up
and the ones right up front weresquashed.
Was it? No way could they could get that
door open against the weight of all those behind.
So there they were trapped. And the fire raged.
And quote, also the reveal that the bird Pennywise was there too

(29:08):
was bone chilling. It didn't hover, he said it
floated. It floated, there were big
bunches of balloons tied to eachwing and it floated.
What a story from Will on his deathbed.
So this is what I was talking about.
Mike hears this story directly from Will.
Will is still alive in the book.When Mike is a kid he hears this
story. We find out the Dick and Will

(29:29):
were roughly the same age. What happens is the black spots
on fire. Someone drives a truck through
to help try to get people out because, like it states, they're
jammed up at the door. They've created like a Stampede
situation. They crash into the building
essentially to try to get peopleout, and Halloran uses his shine

(29:49):
to save people. So I knew going into this that
Halloran would save people in some way using the shine.
I just didn't understand how that was going to work because I
haven't read the book so I don'tknow the full story.
It did seem like he was going toturn tail.
He's not like himself right now.I think we can all agree he's
been. And now he's even less like
himself. Yeah, he's been totally broken,

(30:11):
although more in a way. The only protection he had has
been stripped away from him. He doesn't understand how to
recreate that for himself yet, obviously.
And all he knows is that if he interacts with the dead, it's
never going to stop. That's all he's been told, or
all he thinks, because that's all he knew from when he was a
kid. So how reluctant would you be to

(30:31):
turn to the dead to ask for help, especially when they're
coming at you with half a jaw missing?
Yeah, I'm sorry, but that's not the dude I'm going to interact
with. Like.
That moment was curious though, wasn't it?
Because that particular person walked right past him.
It wasn't coming after him. Well, yeah, they don't because
he's not interacting with them. Right, like he said to Hanlon,

(30:52):
the episode before the. Second, he turned and he looked
at the chief and talks. And says hey.
Help me, where are the kids? Help me find the kids.
All of a sudden the floodgates come out.
That's it. Now they're never going to stop
talking to him, is what he thinks.
Obviously we know better. Dick's able to move on with his
life and do other things, so clearly this doesn't stop here.

(31:13):
But in this moment, this is all he knows is going to happen.
They're going to start talking to me and they're not going to
stop, and I'm not going to be able to stop it.
And that's exactly what he's processing.
Experiencing right now. When we see him a little bit
later and he's having a completemental breakdown.
He's doing his best. All the noise, I don't think
he's there yet, but he's all. The noise, I mean, I can't
imagine, think of how many people have died and anyone

(31:34):
location that you're in, in. Just the 23 people who just,
which by the way, I don't know if you paid attention to the
things they said, essentially. Well, his friend says,
essentially we've got to get retribution for what's happened.
You have to go after these people.
Yeah, he says. What's happened?
And make a. It hurts like hell.
I'm talking to you. Make it right.
Look at our kind brother. What did they do to us?
Got to make it right. Make it right.

(31:56):
And then it just goes to the next scene.
Because you can easily miss that.
By the way, it was so low and whatnot.
But I wanted to just hit one more thing that you said.
Bridget, though his grandmother Dicks had somewhat of what he
hadn't, was able to at least give him that little bit of
advice of locking away the dead or the spirits or whatever.
There's nobody like him, so he'slearning this on his own at this

(32:19):
point now. Yeah, it's Danny.
Exactly. I imagine he learns a lot.
Until he meets Danny, of course.We don't know his whole story.
There could be other people thathe comes in contact with, but as
of right now, because I don't know what this story is going to
look like, Dick's story is already different.
It's already been changed from what it was in the books.
Like we said, they could do likea whole universe situation now

(32:39):
where like he goes off and does his own thing and learns more
about this by meeting other people or whatever.
I mean they could retcon in whatever they want at this
point. Considering how wild, like we
said in the last episode, the story is.
Or at least Pennywise. And we know there's other people
with the shine. Yeah, it's not like it's only
these two people. No, no, there's a ton of ton of.
Three. Now I mean that.

(33:00):
Was the whole premise of Doctor Sleep.
Let's read Jason's comment. This will probably get us back
on track. It was really cool seeing the
Native American woman Sesky helping him save the people and
then him seeing the dead people after was scary face.
It floated like a balloon eyes emoji.
Who's talking about the bird? The bird.
So yeah. Right.
It had balloons on its wings. What a creepy bird.

(33:25):
I'm glad we didn't see that. That would have been lame.
Just objectively to bird. Yeah, just a bird with balloons
on its wings. Well, can't exactly fly right?
He's good at writing, but his ideas don't always convey
properly via the screen. That would have been a little.
Weird. Yeah, it would have been a
little bit weird. Well, we didn't really answer
the question. What prompted Dick to save

(33:48):
everybody? I asked the question really only
because I think handling got in his head about duty.
Well, he's not a bad guy. No, exactly.
Dave, no person with even like an iota of a sense of right and
wrong could leave children to die in a burning building.
Oh, I don't know, Bridget, as asdefinitely are, much as I love

(34:09):
people and think people are good.
I oh you are absolute trash but even.
I think trash will go back for kids well.
Even I think in a situation likethis.
You would lose your life. You just.
Want everyone you love die around you?
Yeah, I, I I don't buy that. I can't believe I'm saying this.

(34:30):
So you'd be out of there. You can just watch.
I'm not saying. Me.
Oh, God forbid me, I'd probably die.
Exactly. Why I'd?
Definitely die what I heard to save children.
Not big fans, but still, still. Save.
So we saw people crashing through the windows trying to
escape that way, but then they were immediately being shot when
they did escape. I'm under the impression, tell
me if I'm wrong, that the kids, Hank and Halloran, are the only

(34:53):
survivors. Yeah.
Well, there is at least the one girl.
Well, there's A1 girl. Oh, the laughing girl.
Yeah, okay, right. Who?
She's not okay. Was the cute girl that got
served by the way who the barmanwas flirting with.
She was even younger than I thought she was last week.
She's going to Juniper a little for sure.
She did the thing where she was like, I'm gonna hit on some

(35:16):
airmen and maybe get me some pregnant and well.
Get me some pregnant. Why not?
Like it's something you can order at the bar.
Find a good man to take care of you.
To marry you, not to. Just to get you knocked up,
Dave. That's the goal.
You get the thing and then get. Then you get married.

(35:37):
No. Get the be quiet look in any
order Will do. Oh, and the white girl lived.
Because she left, not her dad, By the way, that was Stan Kirsch
in the Wolfman mask, right? He just knows everybody because
he's the butcher, right? Oh, yeah, what a flip, too.
We came into the series, Charlotte going, why is
everybody so weird? This guy was like the only one

(35:59):
who's meeting her at eye level. Speaking face to face was kind
of nice, and then all of a sudden, what a flip.
It's like the worst dude the. Worst of the worst?
Yeah, even worse than Clint Bowers.
Wife beater, Racist, white supremacist.
It checks out. They're usually pretty nice to
your face. Wife Beaters.
I'll take your word for it. You should, I'm an exo

(36:20):
unfortunately it's chill. Just ran down my spine but I'll
take your word for it. So I know they're going to cover
it up anyway. But if they did, I know I heard
the radio announcement. It's just it's irritating
because obviously the people whowere shot didn't die in the
fire. So they're going to have to,
like, pay off the Emmy. Well.

(36:40):
They had to cover up how Mr. Kirsch had died because they
found him with half a head. Oh, absolutely.
Oh, but Rob, he died. Saving, saving or I know.
Yeah. The hero.
Providing medical help came to. Rescue those people.
And he just lost his head and. Who were hurt and injured?
Snapping. They not interview anybody that

(37:02):
was in the building. That's what's crazy to me.
Well, that's what I'm saying. The only people who survived
were held. Don't want to be found?
Hank and the kids and the lunatic that's laughing her head
off so nobody's going to talk toher.
And as far as they know, Ingrid Kirsch is catatonic.
Yes, so she's not talking either.
They think Hank's down. She's like a clown for some
reason. The only.

(37:22):
Sorry, she's sort of catatonic in both the miniseries and the
movies. No chapter 2 She's not what?
But she's Penny wise. Curse is Penny wise, yeah.
Chapter 2, Yeah, but in the miniseries she was sort of
catatonic though. When Bev talks to her, wasn't
she? No, I mean she was talking.
Yeah, she's in her her old house, her old.
Apartment not coming. I'm sorry, I meant catatonic.

(37:43):
She kind of went in and out though, right at first.
Well, she did Pennywise thing because she was Pennywise in
that too, right? Right.
But that's, that's why I liked that she went catatonic because
it was like, oh, there's a little nod there, which did she
survive? Didn't she?
I don't. I was surprised, actually.
The only person who could even give an account of what happened
would be Dick. And he's not ready for this.
No. He's it wouldn't matter, no.

(38:06):
Yeah, they're not going to find out for a long time.
What? Actually happened.
I guess because they fired the chief, whoever the new chief is
is just going to want to wrap itup so that they don't have some
big black spot on their their record.
Should have asked the question but now you just just why is it
what? How does the title we're linked
to this episode? I don't think they ever
uncovered this. I think it gets covered up and

(38:27):
they succeed at doing so becausegoing forward it's not like if
there was any repercussion for anybody.
Just like every massacre though,every augury technically, but
you can already tell cinematically.
It's like a film has been removed from the screen.
Things are looking brighter looking up.
Everybody's just basically wantsto forget.
But also Pennywise makes it so that they forget already.

(38:51):
The fog that lives. Farting all over town.
Exactly, his emanations coming from the hidey hole.
It's been a while since we brought up the Pennywise Farts
forgetting farts. The fart of forget.
Farts. The flatulence of forgetfulness.
Gosh. So many syllables in that one.
Oh my God. But it's true though, doesn't it

(39:11):
feel that way? Kids running down the street
like nothing happened. A sunny day on the radio.
That's gonna end real quick, though, because he's awake
again. Which is so interesting.
That's A twist. It's like you knew that it would
happen. This never been recorded that
we're aware of. We've never been told that this
happened. I was concerned because I'm
like, OK, this seems like the end of the show, but there's a

(39:33):
whole other episodes like what'sthat's?
What I was like, what could possibly be happening?
I think Pennywise has realized obviously that one of the bars
is gone. You can now sure.
Oh yeah. Yeah, so that's why he's woken
up. And I think Lily has the
replacement bar. I was going to say the same
thing, yeah. Smart.
Because we know he doesn't get out of dairy.

(39:55):
Correct. No, he doesn't.
And yes, Lily has the only otherpiece of the thing that could
contain him so. Interesting, though, because
General Shaw, he's so much crazier than I thought he was
going to be. So much crazier.
I mean, I knew like, there was going to be something about him
that was kind of off, but this is way beyond what I thought it
was going to be. This I did not see coming.

(40:15):
Also do I believe? You say Nazi.
Wow do I believe this as an ideafor a person to just all the
sudden be like fear is the only way to control everyone?
Like. Because that's what it's I was
like, OK, dude, this is absolutely crazy, but OK.
But obviously. Is it though?

(40:35):
The other thing because that he's outside of dairy, he's not
even in dairy. Yeah, but he wants to release
the beast. Yeah, I know.
Well, I know. It's nuts though.
Is it though? We just went through COVID.
How crazy is that concept? It's stupid, stupid relatable.
Yeah. That's why it's I'm a
conspiracy. Theorist.

(40:57):
I believe everyone in the in thegovernment is doing this at all
times. They are looking out for us.
Doesn't make it right. What?
Should check in on the showrunners because the
government's not going to like that you put this out there.
Because they're Italian. What do you care?
There's 2 Italians, 1 Jew and one atheist.

(41:18):
I don't know, it's one of those things where I'm like, oh, you
couldn't be more subtle and getting this point across, but
you come out and say it exactly as it is and it's super ham
fisted. Dave, I don't like when writing
is like this. OK, well, go twirl your mustache
on the on the railroad tracks there, dude.
It's. Put that on a James Remark
calendar. It's so intense.

(41:39):
I get it, don't get me wrong. Everything that was being said,
it's like, oh wow, you could have pulled this out of our
time, yadda yadda, the whole thing.
But like, that's what I didn't care for about that reveal is
like, okay, well, you could havegone about this maybe a little
more subtly or we could have hada different conversation, but
all of a sudden it becomes zero to 60.
It became a lot more Indiana Jones like than.

(42:00):
Lawsuit. Did you feel that with the dig
site? Yes.
It's not quite as cinematic as Raiders, but.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Because all of a sudden it became like really campy.
If they should have put like ancient Egyptian music in 30s
spoke Arabic, that's. Fine, I guess I don't know.

(42:20):
See, they can get away with it because we just came out of
something that was also to a large degree.
And who could blame people? At first, it was largely fear
inspiring. Everybody was afraid right from
the onset. People didn't think about it at
first. Then all of a sudden became very
real. And then the government made it
be more real, just like General Shaw is making it.

(42:40):
And I don't 100% disagree with him either, which I hate.
I hate that. I'm sorry, right around.
Wait. What let's No, you just said you
agree with him. I found myself trying to take
the other side of the argument. Here's something that Brad Caleb
Kane said. Shaw is a man out of time.
This isn't the episode of Insider Brigidium.

(43:00):
He's a man at a time seeing America changing, doesn't
recognize it anymore. He came from a time where they
got together to fight World War.Well, not fight World War One,
but witness World War One, then fight in World War 2 or see the
ashes of the Holocaust and people coming together under a
single banner to fight against in their minds, evil, witnessing
horrors, receiving and experiencing tragedy, Pearl

(43:22):
Harbor, etcetera. But everybody more or less was
united in that pursuit. But then obviously the 60s come
and you're in this time where it's like you said, women's Lib
is is coming about. But also let's ask this question
before I say anything further. It seems to me that Shaw doesn't
seem like a racist. He was pretty horrified at what
happened at the black spot. Are we all in agreement there?

(43:43):
I would agree. Yeah, I assume because he
befriended a native girl in a time when that would not have
been accepted. True and fought alongside also
colored airmen etcetera. I'm using the problems of the
time people don't come after me.Yeah, I guess for me that's why
this just feels like it's a crammed in.
But you don't feel like he has asort of 30,000 foot view.
Obviously he's a general, so he's in and out of the room when

(44:05):
it comes to Political Animals and then coming back to the
field. You know what I would have liked
better if Pennywise's influence had converted?
The guy. I don't care what his name is,
you can tell me. I don't care, though, who takes
the pillar away in the truck. Oh, the that guy.
If you had been like. So like an Indiana jump?
Yes. If you had been like and then

(44:27):
all of a sudden this guy, it gets burnt, the wave.
And I'm like, sure, I don't knowthat guy.
He can be evil. It's fine.
I don't know him. He's kind.
Of an evil. And he smiles back at Colonel
Fuller. And he has, like a Pennywise.
Side such an evil look. That's the guy, that's the bad
guy. Wasn't he down the towels with
him too? I think so.
Yeah, he was got. Shitty at tango.
Yeah, Colonel Killer, right? That's the guy, that's the bad

(44:48):
guy. That's the guy you want to be
bad. So he doesn't have a bit of a
stank guy, unlike General Trump.That's what I wanted to clear
up, is that we all. Until that point reveal we got
you, you didn't know it's. Hard not to sympathize with him
though at the same time. No, it's pretty easy not to.
Yeah, it's pretty easy not to sympathize.
From his perspective, he's doingit for the greater good.

(45:10):
He's watching his country fall apart, According to him.
Don't people feel that way now? Isn't that stupid relatable
right now? That's why this is ham fisted,
Dave. You know what, if you take this
out of this time, even I see what you're saying.
In a time where people have anxiety about every single
political moment or every singlething this president is doing.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, etc, but I'm just

(45:30):
saying that people do have thesethings.
It's recorded. I understand that, Dave.
I'm saying like this was writtenin recent years, so everything
that it's saying is supposed to be applicable to today.
That's why they inserted it in there.
It's fine. I just think it could have been
better written. That's my only beef with this.
I agree. The like I'm evil now and it's

(45:51):
like over, OK. I don't think he's evil though.
Oh, OK, Dave. It's.

(46:14):
A. Terrible choice.
He's doing the wrong thing, but he thinks he's doing it for the
right reasons. Right.
And I just really touch on this really well.
It's something that Brad Caleb came also says is at the end of
the episode or insider. The monster uses people's
divisions to set them against each other, and he'll use all
forms of that doing bad things for good reasons.

(46:34):
Listen, I'm not saying that the people in the masks were
justified at all, but from theirperspective, you're harboring a
kid killer. And if you're getting in the way
of me getting a kid killer, thenthat's evil justifying itself to
do evil acts right? They weren't going to take him
to the police station and turn him in.
No, because they didn't run because he got S canned.

(46:57):
Yeah, so they were flat out evil.
Again, I'm just saying, yeah, it's the way people can be
manipulated and ginned into doing things that they probably
wouldn't have gone as far doing had it not been for Pennywise or
his influence. And This is why David is
terrified of mob mentality. I mean, I think we all should

(47:17):
be. Fair.
My God, I just realized what you're wearing, you dork.
I'm wearing a hoodie that is modeled after Lieutenant
Commander Wharf later on Commander Wharf in Star Trek.
It's very He backed up and I waslike.
Wow. It was yellow.
And then I'm wearing a red shirtout of the colors of the show,

(47:41):
so I thought it would be kind ofcool.
So your point really, I wanted to say there's that quote.
The road to hell is paved with good intent.
That's it, yes. And I like that we're covering
all the different dimensions of bad things being done, bad
things by good people, bad things by people who think
they're good, Bad, bad, bad things by bad, bad, bad people.
Also, what do you think of Lily?She's dumb.

(48:03):
She's not looking so good right now, No.
She's not. She's not.
Sleeping, she's completely. Petrified.
It looks like that thing is draining her life force.
Maybe. Yeah, she's Gollum.
With her one ring. Yeah, sorry, with her Shard,
Schmiegel. She's not Gollum yet.
No, not yet. She's still of the river folk.
Yeah, it's a nerd reference if I've ever heard one.

(48:24):
Is Bridget. OK, well, you're wearing.
The man in his work hoodie, he's.
So I'm just using your voice to mock myself.
She does release her grip on theShard when she realizes what
happened to Rich, though, which I thought was interesting.
Even Snoopy, by the way, runs away from her.

(48:44):
I call it Snoopy. It's a Beagle I think.
It might have been a basset. So it had that droopy Basset
Hound. Face.
You're thinking a droopy dog. Snoopy does have a droopy face.
No, you're right. Right.
I don't know. I just thought that because of
the the way the ears looked at for herself.
Yeah, Listen, there. Not a pet person.
Was she seen holding it when they went to the standpipe?

(49:05):
No, but she had her. Bag, so I assumed it was in her
bag. So it's sort of like Taniel's
Fanny pack. It was like a body slide out of
it. I see.
I see. Yeah, I know, right?
There's hoping it doesn't RIP a hole and jump out it.
Doesn't even have to do that much, it just magically goes
through the bag just like Taniel's.

(49:25):
So both Ingrid and Will get the dead lights.
I need to know more about this alittle bit more.
What is the effect of someone who goes right?
Good luck, we know nothing but go.
Ahead paralyzes your mind and wedon't know exactly what happens
Beverly got it, and then Richie got.
It used my miniseries logic, butI remember in the miniseries,

(49:48):
Stanley here has said I saw him over the summer as a kid.
It was a mummy coming down the stairs.
Yeah, he saw him when he was away after the whole thing
happened, and he didn't talk about it.
And then he talked to me about it.
And basically he ends up killinghimself as an adult because he
realizes that was his last memory because he'd forgotten.
Obviously, the Pennywise farts. And then when he remembered him

(50:09):
again, he killed himself. But anyway, my whole point of
that is I think he saw those lights also from the mummy or
something. Dead light to that effect.
The only time they really look into the dead lights in the mini
series is when they flip the spider over.
Yeah. OK, how?
We see it. Anyway, Yeah, well, I just want

(50:29):
to know what you. I need theories here, Like what
does this mean for both Ingrid and Will?
Seems like a bad thing. Well, yeah.
Yeah, that's been established atleast.
Is he hung up like dried meat now and we've?
Seen it go both ways. It's like either you're dead
now, or through the power of friendship, you can be saved.

(50:50):
I think well seeing the dead lights, the dead lights are it's
true form so it's a thing. From outside our.
Reality. Yeah, the three lights things,
that's a true form. That's how we see it being
projected to an audience, but it's something that your mind
can't comprehend because it exists outside of our reality.
So it just kind of breaks your brain, makes you stunned,

(51:11):
catatonic, paralyze all the feelings in the world.
So that being said, when it did,the Beverly keep staring at her
and then made her float and thenleft her there until they all
showed up in the power of friendship, brought her down and
then a kiss brought back to life.
But. Bridget always thinks of things
that forever become a thing after.
That she's not wrong. Episode or insider?

(51:31):
It is what it is, Dave. It's.
The Power of friendship Power offriendship TM No Bridget, it's
like. Care Bears, I think.
Most of us understood that. Yeah, no.
Yeah, OK, good. All of us did.
OK. And to Jason's point, dude, the
dead lights looked cool. But maybe that's why they were
so stunned is that it did look pretty cool.
And their eyes went crazy. It was so cool.
Yeah, surrounded by all those millions of teeth.

(51:53):
They'd take an ecstasy and so they were like bro.
Maybe that mommy's little helperstayed.
This is my long bargain floor do.
You want me to give you? You want me to give you like
Joe? Because it's the three likes, so
he's like doing. I don't know if you Remember Me
doing this at the Yep, the partyat the camp.

(52:14):
Yes, I did that. I thought I was so funny.
Never forget. I am funny, but I thought I was
hilarious during. That remember never forget it
was funny. Memorial Bridges.
Dignity. My dignity's been long.
That was that's dead and buried.It's a monument to the lack of
anyways. I'm also curious to find out

(52:36):
hopefully we do how it how this is affecting people, the
deadline specifically because wesee Ingrid obviously she's
catatonic till she isn't but like at that last second her
eyes shift and she looks over sowas that her looking?
Was anyone? Looking through her eyes.
OK, fine. Interesting.
Cool because. Because he was also supposed to
be asleep at that time. But we find out that he's not.

(52:57):
But he was until they. Got the charred?
Yeah, he went to sleep. He was sleeping in his little
bloodbath. His.
Little bloodbath is that? How weird I was like what a
weird way to hibernate dude. But.
I immediately thought of people who or the the conspiracy theory
of people bathing in the blood of children and whatnot.
Yeah, it's literally. Obviously blood lively stuff,

(53:19):
but like old people try to bathein the young people blood so
that they'll not look steal their youth.
So that's that's immediately what I thought with Penny was it
whatever. But what if that's the way he is
able to manipulate actual peopleto do what he wants them to do?
Kind of like how Henry Bowers goes after each of the kids on
his own. Well, not his own volition, but

(53:39):
he breaks Henry Bowers out of through.
The dead lights you're. Saying yeah, yeah, that they, he
can exert direct influence, I guess.
Yeah, OK. Initially I was going to be like
no, you're wrong, but we don't know anything to the contrary so
maybe. I wonder if this year's will
give us more context as to what the Dead Lights actually do.
Maybe next episode, Maybe next. Season.

(54:00):
I don't know. Where's the turtle stuff?
You know what I mean? Yeah, I, I don't.
Know if that's ever. Going to actually.
Happen. Like 2 turtle shells glued
together. Yeah, I.
Did see that and I was like, I was like nice turtle reference,
but we're not actually learning anything about the turtle.
I'm kind of glad, aren't you? It's.
Just a little nod. Because it's so weird and who
really wants to? No, they're like we I want.

(54:20):
Turtles. I want it to get weird.
It's all a matter of good writing, Bridget.
Not every scene is going to be General Shaw flipping his lid.
The Muscati's just got to do a whole lot of cocaine and this
start writing. You're Italian.
Go speak to the Italians. Let them figure it out.
Maybe that's the final season weget to meet Mattering because

(54:41):
it's a turtle out of time. Turtles in time.
I finally understand it now. TMNT.
Yeah. Yeah, they're hardest video
game. Yeah, I've ever beaten it,
actually, dude, did I? I was.
Beaten that game. The Nintendo one, right?
Not the Turtles in time. Turtles in time, of course, we
beat. The one in the arcade is

(55:02):
horrible. Oh God, but it's the one.
Did anybody else think they weremelting the Shard down to make
bullets? Yes, I did.
I did. OK, that's fair.
I did. But sure, yeah.
Yeah, I don't know how many you can make.
I was like, that's a lot of material to be smelting this
into well. At first, that's not really how

(55:25):
you wasn't. Stuff.
So I was confused. Well see, they already had
metals, probably in the smelter to mix the pillar with.
Why? To make bullets?
That was my idea. Yeah, to control the.
Fuse the bullets with the material.
My mind went to many places after that scene.
I was like well maybe this is good, which is why I watch this.

(55:46):
Maybe they create a wrought irongate that in the end is what is
used to poke Betty West. Gate.
They put it up at Meeble. In that.
Yeah, that. Yeah.
So I was like, oh, that makes somuch more sense now.
Shut up, Bridget. Shut up with your face.
Pretty sure that gate was already standing when they
visited me. It was.

(56:07):
I was right, though Taniel only knows of one pillar.
And it happened to be the one they found.
Well, I'm assuming this collection of people each know,
yeah. Each get a.
Patient, yeah. I'm obsessed with that one guy.
The one. Guy who says OK asses he tried
it. Excuse me?
You. Dropped it on the show so we.

(56:28):
Can say it. He's my favorite.
I'm obsessed. I was like, that guy is awesome.
Who is this guy He. Really upset that other girl
he's like. He's she's like, yeah, I didn't
care. I was like, that's a hilarious
way to leave. What was life expectancy back in
the 60s? He was like, I'm not going to

(56:50):
see you, but I'm you're going tosee me as a dead person because
Pennywise will make it so, basically.
Dead for sure. Isn't that upsetting?
I dude, I thought it was so funny, I was like it.
Was funny, but then I gave it some thought.
No, it's the best way to leave. Like a few people.
He doesn't want to deal with anyof it.
He's like this sucks I hate this, why is this my job?

(57:12):
These white people are going to die anyway.
Who cares? He's from a different he's like
General Shaw. He's a man from a different
time. Ephem.
Yeah, but I like stand with whatthat guy said I'm not standing
with. Shaw that's.
Just Oh my God, Jason. Said I was surprised so they

(57:33):
don't hang out in between the 20seconds.
Jason, that guy, he's not hanging out with him.
He is not hanging. Out with him, he's like, see,
I'm going to go to Canada. I did.
I was surprised because I thought they were part of the
same tribe. I think they are.
They're just like. They was going to spend time
together, but this guy's like. You couldn't pay me, I'm paying
it with you guys suck. You guys suck.

(57:55):
I hate all of you but. If it wasn't for this thing that
we had to do if. It wasn't for this ending of the
world type situation that I'm stuck in.
He goes back to New York City. He's an opium den.
This guy's living the high life.I love him, he's my favorite I.
Hope he goes forever. I'm back on board.

(58:15):
It was a jerk. That's the funniest part of you
saying that. It's that you pan around the
room. Taniel, this other guy who
looks, you know, same age as Taniel.
Everybody's got the sour face, like what just happened.
It's terrible. It was the worst massacre yet
because it objectively was. It was 17 Airmen of the Black

(58:36):
Spot, holding 23 so far and thenin addition 17 other children,
but wasn't. The the Easter egg hunt the
worst numbers wise. I don't think it topped it.
This is 40 total people. I don't think was the Easter
egg. Was the kitchen or Ironworks
explosion more than 40 people? Maybe I thought it was.
I thought it was 30 something alone in the one event.

(58:58):
I think it topped it. And thanks to Ingrid, by the
way. Well, maybe there were a couple
of urchins. I don't think it shouldn't
exist. That's 1908.
I just want to say, was that theone that a little bit bothered
by how long people were surviving in the fire?
Yes, yes, no, just. From smoke inhalation alone,
they would have been passed out long.
Yeah, also or they got definitely cooked in a cooler,

(59:21):
but it's fine. Yeah, yes, 100%.
No, this is not anywhere near the worst. 88 children and 102
people died in the 1906 could. You share your explosion.
I can't wait for season 3. Way worse.
Wow, what a way to right if we are going back in time.
If we're calling each cycle. Bradley Gang nineteen way I did

(59:43):
want to mention one thing, Speaking of times after
Pennywise's act and it goes to him pushing in the powder
basically, or whatever powder based makeup that he's using.
Or maybe it's not just clumpy. It dawned on me that the whole
talc thing started in the late 1800s and only recently thought
that they found out they I thinkthey always kind of knew that
talc caused certain cancers. Oh, those people.

(01:00:03):
Bad for you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They only finally ruled in that favor that 2023, by the way,
which is crazy to think because it's since the 70s it's been a
controversy. But then I thought, okay, maybe
that's how Periwinkle died of cancer.
It's still debatable whether youcan get cervical cancer.
Oh yeah, but she could have got mesothelioma.

(01:00:24):
Yeah, well, we were putting it on everything.
Babies, babies and women. Women were told to use baby
powder. And then also there was a
laundry list of feminine hygienepowders that existed that were
all talc based. And then on top of that, Talc
was in makeup. Right.
Exactly. Yeah.
Especially like this kind of makeup.
Too. Yeah, yeah, Was not us.

(01:00:46):
That's a great situation, Yeah. And then they were like, Oh,
well, now that we're worried about it, I guess many, many,
many, many, many, many, many years later, we'll just start
making talc free products now. I think they started in the 70s
and then they're like, let's nottake chances with this
conspiracy theory talc. That's that's a piece to the

(01:01:06):
capitalist market, you know. Lead was also would make up for
a long time. No kidding.
So no kidding. Let's see what else is there to
talk about the. Thing the only thing we haven't
talked about Rich. Yeah, he's deaf.
I was hoping you'd forget. How could we forget?
Well, yeah, okay, bye. Goodnight.
I guess we're done. Talking everybody we don't talk

(01:01:27):
about. OK, let's revisit your comments
from last week, Bridget, becauseyou had said I hate that this is
a thing. I hate that it's possible that
this is how she names her son Richie Tozier because of this
incident and whatnot. In memorial of Marge's first
love, Rich Santos. How do you feel now?
I hate everything. Burn the world.
Yeah, I hate it. I hate that he died.

(01:01:49):
I really do. Favorite of the group?
And I hate that he died in such a chivalrous way.
He knew from the moment he opened that cooler that there
was not room for the both of them.
He forced her to get in anyway. It was just such a sweet moment.
What a brave action from a a child.
There are grown men that wouldn't do that, I'm sure.

(01:02:11):
Thank you. I mean, not that it would have
worked because you probably would have just cooked alive in
that cooler or ran out of air. The latter was my bigger fear,
actually. Because it's insulated, there's
a chance. Some degree, but it's also a
metal box in a fire, so I mean I've.
Meant to be airtight. The fire would make the oxygen

(01:02:31):
deplete faster too. And you were screaming at the
beginning, so then you used up all your oxygen, you idiot.
Yeah. My thing was like his Richie
didn't even get charred, he was just dead, obviously from
suffocation. Maybe because they were in the
center, it didn't learn so much.Yeah, it didn't seem like the
fire got all the way to that spot before it got put out or

(01:02:51):
went out. What would be more traumatic, A
charred, unrecognizable Richie or a recognizable yet not with
us Richie? I'm really curious what your
thought is. I think that's more impactful to
see. Him.
He's there, but not there. Yeah.
What if Pennywise made it so that he didn't burn?
Maybe, right, He's there, but he's not there.
Because I thought about that too, but I didn't want to think

(01:03:14):
about it too much because obviously I don't want to pick
this bone. But then it does kind of make
sense. I think for me it'd be worse to
see him charred. The way he was sitting there
looked almost peaceful. Obviously we know it wasn't.
That's a horrific way to go. I think that's the best way to
look for us because that's. Right.
Yeah, right. It would have been.
It would have been way worse to see a charred, disfigured body.

(01:03:37):
So do you think that the musketes pulled the yoke
basically maybe. They felt like that would have
been too far maybe. Especially considering he's a
child. They also wanted to have that
moment with all of them with hisbody afterwards, and that would
have been even worse if they're trying to do that with a charred
corpse. Which they wouldn't.
No, of course not. But you want story.
We want to see that moment. Yeah, no.

(01:03:59):
I mean, maybe. Exactly, exactly.
That's the only reason why I thought, OK, you can make this
work if let's get the maximum tragedy effect, the maximum
sadness if Pennywise saved this one little body.
I'm going to say something maybeterrible now.
This was sad. I think most of us saw it, saw
it coming. Yeah, unfortunately.
I hoped it wouldn't be Richie. All of these kids are not

(01:04:23):
surviving. I still think we might lose
another 10, but that's just me. Very possible.
That's not the horrible thing. I was going to say the horrible
thing. Thing I'm going to say is this
was sad. I'm not taking anything away
from that. But for me, I feel like it was
dragged out a little bit. We had this really sweet,
heartwarming moment where they're like, oh, he's gone and
they hug him. And then in the next scene,

(01:04:45):
Marge has a moment with his hand, and then she put his hand.
Back in the thing. And then they go, and then they
go to death and then they go to the standpipe and they're
packing up all of his things. And then they have to go to Lily
and do the whole thing there. And I'm like, OK, we get it.
Yes, it's sad, but we get it. I don't disagree.
I don't. I don't disagree.
Would you say that their fists were maybe full of ham?

(01:05:06):
Branch counterpoint. Not that I think you're wrong at
all. Part of doing that is to wind
you down, to make you think thatit's over too.
You can do this, this, this and that, and this is one of those
things that make you feel like. That's fine, but we all know
there's another episode. Exactly you.
Can only wind it down so much. Up until the reveal of Pennywise

(01:05:27):
waking up and attacking Will, I thought maybe like this was a
Game of Thrones step situation where they do the big event in
the penultimate episode and thenhave like a calm ending to the
season. Really.
Because we've seen previews of scenes that we haven't seen yet.
I haven't really watched too many previews on purpose so.
I also have not, but they show up in my face occasionally.

(01:05:49):
There's one in particular that we haven't seen yet and.
The foggy one, no. No, it's Patty cakes.
Coincidentally, Jason says. I was thinking the same thing,
Rob. I was thinking the same thing,
easy with the Game of Thrones effect.
But I was also thinking of what is the show called?
Well, it's called Welcome to Dairy.
It's not. Well, welcome to Pennywise the
clown doing things. As far as the last episode is
concerned, you could easily get away with.

(01:06:10):
The fact is what happens now? What does this town look like
with Pennywise gone? You get a glimpse of it in this
episode until Pennywise comes back.
How anti Stephen King though? Yeah, but it isn't Stephen King.
Technically, it's not Stephen King's show.
He. Didn't write it, but they'd be
doing him a dishonor to end it that way.
Wouldn't feel very on. Not if the writing's good

(01:06:31):
enough. Well, he likes to give a nice
little wrap up, but his wrap upsare they're short.
Terrible. They're short and they're.
Dumb because we established in the last episode.
Yeah, short, and they're dumb. They're not always.
Great. They're people skipping through
the airport. It's bad.
It's bad all around. What's this?
What you like? They lampoon that pretty heavily

(01:06:54):
in the movies too. They all can't write an ending
to his books. Yeah, yeah.
He lampooned himself. Yeah, they didn't get me, and
maybe that's why I was feeling the way that I was feeling about
it being dragged out. Get to the part where more
happens because we're not there yet.
No, I think they wanted you to feel as dazed as everybody else
was feeling. Like, wait, what's happening?

(01:07:15):
What's why isn't things moving? Oh, because that's what grief
is. It means being in this moment.
And whether it works or not is awhole other story, but I think I
see what they were trying to do.Yeah.
You feel like that girl tearing off her wig and laughing
maniacally. You're like, why won't this
scene progress? Yeah, when Marge did walk over
to Riches hand, I thought there was gonna be something in it.

(01:07:36):
I thought she was gonna take something out of his hand.
I thought he was going to be like holding on to.
Something what a nightmare for you, but yeah, yeah.
I think she saw his hand fall and she thought he was moving
and a little bit of false hope came out.
I just think he just, she just saw his hand there was like
that's. Almost like a respected thing.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he.

(01:07:57):
Can't see without his glasses. It was like, yeah.
Situation stop. Because what I'm about to say is
this, the whole speech that he gives her and the back and forth
and they say, I love you. I love you, Rich, I love you.
Marge. I tagged on there too.
And I didn't know this at the time in my notes, but I wrote my
heart burns there too. I hate.

(01:08:18):
Yeah, I see you side Bridget. Finally.
Gross. Heartless.
Yeah, but you felt something. I told you I cried during this
episode. But I didn't know this at the
time. Do you want to know what the
title of the next episode is? Fine.
Winter fire. OK, nice.
Be a little emotional. I'm going to change subjects.
Can we talk about something elsebro?
Well, you can't just do that. Yeah, I'm going to.

(01:08:41):
He's like no Vaseline for you. Yeah, I don't like it.
Why did Pennywise look like dipped?
He looks like a used tampon. He came.
Straight out of that, I didn't. Want to say.
About him straight out of that bloodbath and was like, I'm here
to make you look at me. This is making my mouth the

(01:09:03):
water. I was like, dude, what?
Yeah, I wrote that. Such a weirdo too.
You're such a weird dude. I'm wondering if Halloran
actually felt him wake up. Though, yeah, I wonder.
I wonder. What were the last words?
Shaw says. Cuz they're at the dig site,
right? Indiana Jones, you head back to
the barracks and get some rest. Yeah, it's the last you see of

(01:09:23):
them. Yeah, I know that sometimes it
is scary. Okay, definitely.
There are many moments during the newer movies that I'm like
absolutely terrified watching when he says stuff like that.
He is such a joke. When?
He. Says when he said yeah the
popcorn thing the my mouth was watering like I'm like bro you

(01:09:44):
are so awkward and weird what a weird thing to say out loud.
I loved it, every bit of it. And it reminded me of when Bob
Gray's talking to that kid. Yes, and.
Bob Gray's like, what a weird. Thing.
True dude, very true. The children, they flock to you

(01:10:06):
and he's like, what a weird thing.
So not only did Robert Gray redeem clowns, he redeemed
Pennywise from Bridget's eyes. I don't know dude.
It's just sometimes you say stuff and I'm like, that's
objectively funny because it's so awkward that you're saying it
but. Yeah, somebody gotta do it.
Bridget wasn't here for the linethat I hated.

(01:10:28):
I want to know how she. Feels about it.
That's why I thought it was so funny, yeah.
Well, line. Where he's eaten Noreen and he
looks at Ronnie and says do I have my?
Face. On.
My face What's the? Matter.
First of all, I love when he says what's the matter so.
I stupid hated it. It's so dumb I.
Love. When he said Rob.

(01:10:50):
He's like, wow, OK, thank you. OK.
Thank you. Well, cuz you're looking back at
her face or like your own and you're like, oh it makes sense
cuz it's literal. No, it's just stupid.
It's like a stupid one, like someone, someone in the writers
room, someone in the writers room was like, oh, I got it,
guys. I got, I've got it.

(01:11:11):
I got the. Line.
It's the perfect line. Are you ready?
Like. It's based on my.
It's going to kill. In terms of a clown, there is
something a clown might say. Like obviously a clown wouldn't
say that, but like that clown isthat kind of cringing corn.
Yeah, but it's just stupid. Stupid, but it's a clown.
It undoes some of the fear. Sometimes I'm like, I'm like, oh

(01:11:34):
man, it is so scary. And then he says stuff like
that. I'm like OK.
Undoes the fear for us for. Real for real.
I had nightmares about Chucky forever until they made Bride of
Chucky and then all my fears were cured because I know it
wasn't scary anymore. I know, Dave, even if I was in
that situation, sometimes those lines would come out and be
like. Like stupid.

(01:11:57):
Okay, okay. Don't quit your day job.
Pennywise quote. UN quote.
It's like if you see those videos on TikTok, me and my best
friend, if we got kidnapped, yeah, and it'll be like 2 girls
in the back of a car and they'relike, did you see that?
Did you see that? And like the kidnapper will say
something. He'll be like, shut up or I'll

(01:12:19):
kill you. That's me and Bridget.
If we get kidnapped, we're in the back going.
What are you gonna? Do that's what it reminds me.
Of Jason says the alien has a sense of humor.
Ha ha. So he laughed too.
Men unite men. High five.
It was everybody. What?

(01:12:40):
Oh my. Gosh, you can tell that
Bridget's gonna have a boy cuz he's he's high 5 because too cuz
she just she just. I can't.
I can't sit up, Dave. I have to keep, you're going to
go back and edit this and be like, wow, Bridget was like
really struggling. For now I'm like totally
unsympathetic, but later I'll belike Oh my gosh, sorry it.

(01:13:02):
Hurts so. Bad One factoid and one
question. The scene in the black spot, the
fire, the shooting, all that stuff.
The initial, all of that single tracking shot throughout the
entire thing. Awesome.
It was 3 days of rehearsing justthat specific scene, so they got
it right. Super cool.
This is episode Insider. Obviously you can get it from
there. But listen, we talked about

(01:13:23):
single tracking shots a couple times in this series and this
was a very impressive version ofthat.
Second question, Pennywise talking to Dickie, love the fact
that he is still kind of in his head.
Love the fact that he knows he'sseeing the dead people, the dead
people that emerge behind him. Are they real dead people or are

(01:13:46):
they reproductions that Pennywise is making?
Very good question. I.
Think there's evidence? Easily do that I'm.
More inclined to say that they are a product of Pennywise only
because of the unity in which they walk all together.
The glowing eyes as. Well, take me off.

(01:14:07):
Yeah, that too. Most of the dead people that
Dick has seen so far are just sort of like wandering
aimlessly. These moved as a unit.
I think Pennywise had the wherewithal to know that now
they were starting to talk to him, maybe, and then he was just
producing more to kind of fluster him.
Yeah. OK, so we're all settled.
This is a production of Pennywise.
Yeah. OK.
Yeah. The faces kind of looked like

(01:14:28):
Twilight Zone faces. The the beauty one.
I of the beholder, I think it was called the upturned nose and
all that stuff. The pig, the pig masks is what
they called it. OK, so fine, we're settled on
that. There's a deeper question here
because he doesn't try to outright scare Dicky.
He tries to basically fluster Dicky because Dicky's having a
problem on his own right now. He's he's dealing with a lot

(01:14:49):
anyway. Maybe he's too distracted to be
scared. So the deeper question is, is
Pennywise also threatened by Dickie that maybe he has the
power to actually do something about Pennywise?
That thought occurred to me whenhe chose that to show Dickie.
Sure, Yeah, OK. I think Pennywise is afraid of
Dick because Dick does not know yet the extent of his own power.
He hasn't even tapped into what he's able to do.

(01:15:11):
Interesting. OK.
Pennywise is in his mind. He could probably get into its
mind. That would probably break him
though. Depending on on the feeding
cycle, how far in? Because Pennywise, it's not a
physical being necessarily, it'sa it's dead lights.
Just seeing those will break someone's mind.
So imagine going into the dead lights with your own mind.

(01:15:32):
That might create something evenworse.
Ultimately, I'm just speculatingbecause like we really know
nothing about the dead lights ultimately, but.
Right, right. I wish you guys had more
speculation to go to go with this or like wild thoughts.
Well, maybe it's not even a matter of entering the mind of
the dead lights, because like you said, it's an alien being.
It's more of an energy. It's more of an idea.

(01:15:54):
Well it's more like it's like anenergy than a physical being.
So maybe we find out Dick can somehow gain control over the
dead lights. You're thinking way even further
than just manipulating a being. You're thinking, oh, he can
directly control Pennywise, muchlike Pennywise can control
others with. His but, but on the other side

(01:16:17):
of that, I think we also have toadmit that if that is the case,
it's not going to go well. Yeah, because of the series.
Because. We know Pennywise survives all
of this. He's not going anywhere and.
We know Dick stays the hell out of me, yeah.
Yeah, he moves across the country.

(01:16:37):
It's going to the exact oppositeend of the country.
Right I. Think it was Andy Muscchietti.
He said how they figured out howthey wanted the story to go was
this episode, they built the season revolving around the
Black Spot massacre, and they built the story outward from
there, which is so cool to thinkabout because he said we need to
find an excuse to make this as the pivotal central point of the

(01:16:59):
season. And from there, OK, Black Spot.
OK, so there were black airmen. OK, so there.
And then how do we build out from there?
And who do we want to include inthat?
Obviously Dick Halloran. Do we want to show a Leroy
Hanlon, etcetera? Who else do we want to show?
And then from there, they built out, OK, these kids are going to
be the kids. And I just thought that was a
cool way of visualizing how you want this story to go, or that
this was the initial concept. I think it makes more sense than

(01:17:21):
writing yourself into a corner. Oh yeah, also, I know Stephen
King writes like that. He will start with this idea and
then build the whole story around.
It Let's put up the pillars of the story and then we'll take
one of them. They're going to help Hank cross
the border. Rose in company.
I was wondering about that because she couldn't get a phone

(01:17:42):
call out. And I was like, is that
Pennywise disrupting the abilityto get a phone call out?
Because obviously when Maddie tried to leave, he was able to
distort everything so that he couldn't.
I think that was before the juice is loose.
Betelgeuse, You know, the whole thing.
What was that right around the time?

(01:18:03):
What are you talking? About.
Why not an OJ Simpson, right? No, I meant the.
Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice.
That's not what that is, but okay.
It is, you says. It it is.
This is the second one. I haven't seen it.
Yeah, I've heard. Yeah, that original saying is
not. From is from.
Yeah, I know. No, actually, I think Pennywise

(01:18:27):
leaping out, yeah, that's after Charlotte meeting up with Rose
was before the juice was loose. It's staying.
So I don't think that's Pennywise OK.
I wasn't talking about Rose, I was talking about the phone.
But that had that hadn't been beforehand.
So there you go. Her trying to reach Rose I
assume was the first phone call,right?
No, that's not who she's callingDave.
Why do you think she's calling Rose?

(01:18:47):
She's trying to call her contactoutside of winery.
In Montreal, No. I thought she was calling Rose.
I thought she was calling Ingridat first but.
No, I thought I my first thoughtwas Ingrid, but then she said.
Why isn't Ingrid picking? Up.
I know who can get you out of town, or I know who can help us
get you out of here. Yeah.
Then I was like, oh. But prior to that, she's been
calling the same person. It's her contact back in

(01:19:09):
Shreveport. Well, she also mentioned someone
in in Montreal. No, maybe you're right, Bridget.
Because that's who she's contacting earlier in the season
on behalf of Hank. She's not calling Rose on behalf
of Hank. She's not calling.
So you're saying all of a suddenshe can't reach Ingrid?
Because she doesn't know that she is on her side.
She's calling her contacts from the civil rights movement.
OK, so I assumed when nobody answered it was because she

(01:19:33):
couldn't get a phone call out ofdairy because Penny Wise was
disrupting it to make it harder to get Hank out?
Do we think Hank gets out? That's the other.
I don't know. Who knows?
No one gets out and Leroy stuck there forever.
I think Charlotte's gonna die. What I think Charlotte's done
for, I think that's probably during the relieves.
Our Princess Charlotte, our untouchable Princess.

(01:19:56):
She'll probably die trying to save Will.
Oh yeah, especially now that Will is what he's probably been
taken. Or at least comatose.
Well, remember when Pennywise takes Beverly, he doesn't sort
of the same way. He shows up in her bathroom,
hits with the dead lights, and then whisk her out to the sewers
to lure everyone else down. Yep, that's probably why he did
it to Beverly, because he's like, it worked this time when I

(01:20:17):
did it to Will and his friends. This works every time.
Last time and do it again. Fair.
Don't touch that dial. We'll be right back after these
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(01:20:38):
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(01:21:21):
every episode and depending on what tier you join.
The ability. To join us us on camera and mic
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Thank you for hearing us out andmaking it this far into the
episode. We now return you to our
regularly scheduled. Podcast you said the ritual of
chud chud, chud chud chud. Chud.
Was about a battle of wills withPennywise cuz I know that they

(01:21:42):
basically, yeah, they've been desperately trying not to do
this because I've read some articles about this and how well
it mythologizes Native Americans.
It's not really in their culture, blah blah blah, so I
know that they want to move awayfrom this, but what if?
Yeah, well, they made a whole story this season, but sure.
Yeah, OK. Right, with the help of an
actual native tribe, but still. It still is made-up and not at

(01:22:04):
all real. But with the permission of this
what they made concerted effortsbetter.
Better, I mean. Right, The size, the natives of
themselves, they found the star that keeps the thing in its
cage, so it's not like they created that.
Well, Oh no, I'm talking about way back Stephen King basically.
So but anyway, my point is them basically trying to get Will out

(01:22:27):
of the scenario going to be a way for them to, I mean we are
retconning when we are fixing something that was said before
and making it more adaptable or making it fit better into the
storyline. It is a form of retconning.
So do you think they might work in their own way of this?
Is the ritual of Chud getting Will out of the power,
friendship, whatever the battle of wills wills?

(01:22:50):
Does Mike had to steal the thingthat they use for the ritual
chud in it Chapter 2 from the from the natives when I told him
about this ritual that was performed and I'm wondering what
part of the tribe. Is shakapewa.
They did the Ritual of Chud to try and contain it, which I
guess became the pillars. I don't know, but that didn't

(01:23:10):
work. It didn't work when they did it,
and it obviously doesn't work when Mike does it.
So I don't know if they would dothat in this series.
I think they would go back further in the timeline to show
that, if that, if they ever do. Well, I'm just saying like a
bastardize or like a hybrid version of that where, OK, it's
not about containing it. It's about releasing the friend
power friendship. Maybe that's the power

(01:23:31):
friendship that releases people from the dead lights.
Maybe instead of being the containment unit, because we've
already established it's the pillars, if we're to believe
that mythology and we have no reason not to considering what
happened. So I don't know.
It's worth a thought. Audience, yes, because why throw
away something that's perfectly salvageable as a an idea?

(01:23:53):
Maybe repurpose it for somethingelse.
Maybe. All I know is some S is going to
go down in the last episode. Are you excited for the next
episode? Considering that in some senses,
hey, we got a ton of delivery here.
We got tons of origin stories, questions answered and all that
stuff, but where does it go fromhere in that last episode?
Re containing it and then he actually goes to sleep and

(01:24:13):
that's pretty much one how this is going to end.
Right, bad things must happen atthe end, but it still persists
more. People are going to die.
More people are going to die andthey're going to have the small
victory of containing him and that's about it.
Right. And Dick, of course, feel like
this, this story is so much moreenhanced by the fact that Dick
Halloran is here. It's such a great side tale that

(01:24:35):
really, really works with this with this series, so elevates
it. It's in the book.
Dave, But this is much bigger. They changed it, but I'm glad
that they included him because. He's a bigger part, it feels
like. Oh, he's a much bigger.
Part Yes, he was. Just in a story that Will tells
on his deathbed. But it's not.
Exactly right. And also, well, OK, we were

(01:24:55):
talking about the Kitchener Ironworks was a bigger death
count. Well, the potential here is rife
with much more. So don't disappoint us.
Show, show us the death. Don't pull back.
Show a charred Rich. Thank you for joining us,
everybody. I am happy that you were here,
especially Jason. And you too can show up in these
episodes. By the way, just follow us for
free on Kofi or Patreon. It's free to attend.

(01:25:18):
The only thing you need to do isfollow us on Kofi or Patreon to
know when our schedule changes. And of course, we're going to be
talking about Fallout soon, A Night of the Seven Kingdoms.
The boys just announced their final season premiere, which is
April 8th, so I need a break. No breaks for you because you.
Know I. Know Daryl Dixon season 4
happens this year at some point I'm.

(01:25:40):
True. Well, I've been your host, David
Cameo for now. I was joined by me.
Cosmo Mom, 09. Bridget, you can find me at
ko-fy.com/punky Rooster if you want.
And I'm Rob at Rob stuffing things over on TikTok and
YouTube. Find me there.
Go watch this stuff, it's good. And I'm so excited for next
week, so I'm just going to end it really quickly.

(01:26:01):
Me too. See.
Thank you so much. Bye.
OK, bye. Thank you so much for making it
to the end of you. Another episode of Squawking did
this one. It's welcome to Garry's 7th
episode of its inaugural season,titled The Black Spot.
As always, we like to thank our supporters at the end of every
episode. It's a little perk that they
receive for supporting us, whichyou too can do if you listen to

(01:26:23):
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And without further ado, let's mention some of those people,
one of which obviously joined usin this episode because he
joined the whisperers tear. That's probably Casey you reach

(01:26:46):
on TikTok at. Rob's stuff.
Under score N is Nancy under score.
Thanks, THANDS. Of course.
Kim Rowley. That's Kim dot Rowley, the
number one on Facebook. And we have a list of the
Walkers members on the screen right now.
They too, even at $4.00 a month,receive some sort of recognition
at the end of every episode. And I hadn't mentioned I think

(01:27:08):
in this episode, who knows? But we do have merch.
In our. Merchstorewhichyoucanreach@squawkingda.com
Hit the main menu. On the top left, choose Shop
Merch. You can peruse our revamped
designs on our website, or you can also head to the T Public
Vendor portal. Both are accessible on

(01:27:30):
squawkingda.com. Just choose new merch or older
merch. It'll take you exactly where you
need to go. Beyond that, I'm very excited to
discuss or even just watch the season finale of it.
Welcome to dairy. I'm very thrilled to watch the
next episode of Pluribus. We just recorded the 7th episode

(01:27:53):
discussion on that, which is available early for supporters
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It is also available for $4.00 to purchase on Patreon.
If you prefer doing a per episode thing, think of it as a
tip to watch. What we do?

(01:28:15):
Best but also all the things that we end up cutting out
because of a variety of reasons,time flubs, but also.
Things that might get us cancelled.
In the midst of all this excitement, as I mentioned,
there are so many series that will be coming up, even just
this week. Fallout comes up in a few days
and the night of Seven Kingdoms is in mid January.

(01:28:37):
April 8th is the boys you break.But throughout everything, like
I said, and I've been trying to mention this at the beginning,
at the end of every episode, I know that you have a lot of
things pulling at you, trying tograb your attention.
I'm just really thrilled that wemake the cut, that we are a part

(01:28:58):
of that in your lives. It really makes a difference to
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here matters. So thank you and remember that
we are squawking dead.

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