[The Last of SQUAWKS: E5] Endure and Survive |The Last Of Us

Episode Transcript
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(00:17):
We are squawking dead of podcast.
Polarizing episodes Beyond The Walking Dead Universe.
I'm your host David Cameo I'm joined by kozma on 09, Rachel
Bert and Sharon Tak blasi gun, the original Trio.
We're here live talking about the last of us is 5th, episode
titled endure and survive. Vive.
Don't think I have a right and survive introduced and survive

(00:40):
for those who are privileged privileged enough for the power
of hearing. We did ASL.
I did it. Not existent lie.
Charity. Did it correctly and probably
Rachel it a perfect because that's what you do.
I've been signing for a few years.
Yeah, let's start to get First Impressions and I'll start with
Sharon do this time. What was your feeling about this

(01:00):
episode being sort of like a two-parter?
Well, yeah, it definitely was. I know a lot of people thought
last week's episode was the weakest of the four.
So at that point, I think havingpaired it with this episode, it
makes a lot more sense. I cannot get over.
How much I liked the show. I love all the detail and the
Easter eggs and the little things they do.

(01:22):
I have no complaints this week. None, do you feel like in some
ways it's a little simpler than some other shows or they can
measure your cast. Is way smaller.
You know, Walking Dead. How many stories did we follow
Game of Thrones? How many stories do you follow?
Whoa, you have so many people tospread it around and even when
they bring in new characters, they don't last very long handle
exactly which I can respect. Yes, it's simpler because it's

(01:43):
not as expansive as some of the other shows.
Story-wise, you get a chance to delve deeper into these
characters and learn more about them.
And also focus on film craft to not feel pressured and you have
to hurry up because you got to fit these five.
Other storylines into this one episode, talking to you Game of
Thrones, because you did that a lot, the first five seasons make
space in. It much easier.

(02:05):
Yeah, for them. And for us watching it allows
them to sweat the small stuff I think to meaning instead of
racing around and not sloppily. Because obviously, you can do a
lot with many different storylines and get the film
craft just right. But if your audience is really
not going to notice the Brilliance behind the filmmaking
and the story and all that otherstuff, if the audience is also

(02:26):
some simultaneously having to pay attention and remember
different facts from different episodes from different
storylines that and they didn't go to this story.
Line and this episode. But they did the next three
episodes. Then you have to remember, four
episodes back that story line, which you already forgot.
And you have to, like, look online to find out what happened
or rely on the previous lease. Exactly.

(02:46):
Thank you. Yeah.
It keeps it pretty simple, and it allows us to focus on a lot
of the things like, especially in this episode and you pair it
with the long, long time, episode with Frank and Bill, and
it gives you this bigger a bigger context and see, here's
the thing. I know what happens in the
games, I think many of us do, and I was wrestling with myself
on whether I should reveal. Right?
And Rachel shaking your head forcontext, the people who aren't

(03:08):
listening watching us live, theyheard me they heard me, right?
I felt a vibration. A disappointment in the voice.
I was going to this is a spoilerfree thing that I'm about to
say. But everything that happens has
a purpose and does prepare us for things that are undoubtedly
going to happen. And I like where it's going.
There are three different groupshere that faced the possibility

(03:28):
of. Is it worth sacrificing
everything? Just for one person or just for
one thing and it's rough. Kathleen blames Henry for that,
you know, you threw away, everything for Sam, but she's
doing the exact same thing. She's risking everything and as
we see losing everything, because she's focusing on this
one thing, this one person and is it was possession, is it

(03:50):
worth losing everything for thisone person?
I mean, ask yourself that Kathleen and every one of them
does it every single one of themdoes it, but what I liked about
this episode is that for all thecriticisms people gave Melanie
lynskey for her performance? Episode was an answer to that
question and seeing her lean into it and say, oh I'm
self-aware. I know what I'm doing.
I never said, I wasn't the monster.

(04:12):
I'm the ugly one. She says about, you know,
comparing herself to Michael against Mike.
What is makes that even more poignant is Henry, says the same
thing to Joel. I know I'm the bad guy because I
did bad guy things. Yes, I don't know.
It's an exact exact reflection of each other, right?
And I love how like he used because I did bad guy things and
like there's the superhero Motifbetween he and Sam.

(04:34):
Sam and like, oh yeah, you know,comic books billing bad guy.
Bad guy things. It's brilliant isn't it though?
Station 11, which I watched recently.
One of the recurring themes throughout the whole show.
That's in the book. That it's dead.
It's centered around station. Eleven is to the monsters, we
are the monsters. And I think that was very
evident in this to to Sam and Henry.
They're the monsters because they're trying to kill them but

(04:55):
to Kathleen and the others salmon Henry, the monsters for
taking my call away giving they all loved etcetera, right?
I love the irony of the fact that I wanted to go back to
About Kathleen and I think it was how basically she never said
she was a good guy. It makes it seem as though this
whole Revolution thing even though she got it done in the
end. The reason why she got it done
is because Michael got killed because Michael was informed on.

(05:18):
Definitely Michael got killed and that was the spark that she
used to Rally because it only happened two days ago.
This is very, very recent crazy Henry.
Giving up. Michael also had to be very
recent because otherwise Henry would have gotten the hell out
of their way sooner, but I feel like they killed Michael.
And then immediately she steppedin and took on the reins and was
like because they killed Michael.

(05:38):
Let's do this. Let's take them out and round up
to the collaborators. Yeah.
But then again when they took out Federer, as we see in the
beginning they did the exact same things that Federal did to
them, perhaps worse. There was no mercy.
There was no, let's try to work together and I feel like had
Michael lived. Maybe they could have worked out
a something between them, like, because he was a conciliator
that everybody would follow him and he was forgiving, and I feel

(06:00):
like, maybe they could have had a different outcome between them
and fedra. But because He was murdered.
They automatically rose up in and took out fedra and that
changed everything. If Henry hadn't given him up in
the first place, then they wouldn't have had this whole
their freedom. They wouldn't have had everybody
looking for Henry, which ended up killing everybody in the end
Henry is. What made it happen?
Basically, we would be gave themtheir freedom but we're at a

(06:21):
tremendous cost essentially had the freedom to get turned into
fungus because everybody in thattown is dead.
Now basically. Yeah, let me go suck to some
comments before we continue because they're starting to
squirrel away from me. Lo says it was really good.
But they were really killing offpeople fast.
Yes, for all the people who said, where the clicker is not
enough clickers but you got the clickers.
It's like they are because we have the meet the fake

(06:44):
impossible meat. That is on legs and pounds
things. Anyway, rips heads off.
Yeah. Can't wait to get to that
Walking Dead. Eternal says the clicker who
killed Kathleen looked like Chucky.
Yeah. Yeah.
She's a gymnast you a contortionist that little girl.
She's nine years old. She was a fan of the games even
before they made the show like her.
She didn't play it but like her,I think her dad did or
something. And so she ATM in audition tape

(07:06):
and send it in and they made that role just for her.
Hmm. That's it.
Was so fucking creepy. So her I'll let me look up her
name real quick. Hold on.
Okay. Should I say that?
It sounds like a lot of the clickers or the mocap actors who
play clickers in the game or games came back to do to be
actual clickers. In the show, her name is Skye.
S Kye cowton? She's at Sky countin on Ce o WT

(07:30):
o--. N-- on Instagram.
Gotcha. Yeah I'm sure she's probably on
Tick-Tock, they're all on it. On The Tick Tock.
She's she's got some videos on there.
I was watching like whoa. Whoa, too many to be comfortable
admitting out loud. I watched a nine-year-old.
Anyway. Walking Dead Eternal say?
Oh yeah. So he says click OK.
Click killed Platt Kathleen looked like Chucky and that the

(07:50):
big one looked like the Hulk or thing I think more accurately
from the Fantastic Four because the orange stones and stuff like
that. Louis is but and I'll skip to
heard next comments. He says, so we meet Sam and
Henry just like that, they're gone.
Yeah. Exactly exactly what we said at
the top. Which like, yeah, it is sad and
it definitely is sad. We'll talk about that a little
bit more a little bit more but it does go to what we were

(08:12):
saying in the beginning of the show.
Which was at least we're not tangling with several storylines
in at the same time or like evenjust character development that
we have to keep track of and stuff.
Like it's kind of like it's goodfor us but bad for everybody
else's who's watching the shows,but let me go to tackier she
says, when that damn bloater came out.
I was screaming so loud. Well, but I've been saying over

(08:32):
and over that ice cream. Through the whole episode.
You know, I would not want to bearound while watching the show
with you though. It's very distracting to hear.
All this is Louis. I wanted Sam and her to survive
this episode so bad but the morestuff that happened the more I
realize neither would. Yeah I also had a Sinking
Feeling deep in my the pit in mystomach.
Rachel do you feel the same way as you're like the queen of I

(08:54):
predicted that. Are you okay you just yeah,
okay. Just staring into space just to
describe what was happening justout.
There's a lot there's a lot going on.
I thought you were reading. I thought you were reading stuff
is going to 100. Take a break though?
I'm taking I'm tired. I tongue is like man, tied it up
getting like a Walking Dead. Eternal says those clickers came

(09:14):
out of the ground literally likespiders agreed.
Agreed. Yeah, that was so response to
the audience. It's like you want clickers more
clickers here, the clickers and then it's like member like the
mummy when the mummy the guy that plays The Mummy.
But he holds his hands out. He opens his mouth and all of a
sudden this and just comes up behind, that's what the click
is. Look, like is like, okay.
Mr. Haines was that Billy Zane? No, no, it's not Billy Zane,

(09:37):
actually. No, not that one.
The one with Brendan Fraser. Oh, that's the first one with
Brendan Fraser. I don't remember.
Seeing isn't it? No, that wasn't built.
Doctor wasn't knows his name is ah mu r as slow something,
something like to that effect. Our know something are no, he's
Arnold. He's our do.
Another are no. Another are no.
Do my first impressions. Hell yeah I want your first

(09:58):
impressions. God damn it.
Fuck this show. Okay, my first impressions, I
love it. Fuck The show for making me feel
things and care about the peopleand then taking them away.
I mean, Irish aren't you used tothat though?
Like that was we all met becauseof a show, just like, that took
so many things away from us and people.

(10:19):
Yeah, that don't exist away fromus.
It took seven years for somebody, I actually cared about
to be killed off. So no I'm not totally used to
it. Wow, it's feeling.
So you mean Kathleen, right? Like she was so comical know.
My beautiful bearded. Silver Fox very well.
Just proves that he's your type.Rachel wait wait, we were

(10:42):
waiting for this moment. We have we have been waiting for
this moment. Yes, I've been to has a type,
it's gonna it goes the way all your crushes go because it's
like this weird Paradox because you can't like them unless
they're dead. So that's your life is, that's
somewhat over dead people. That sold more than that,
though. I was actually really upset and

(11:03):
maybe there's a reason. I don't know but Perry died in a
pretty awesome way but it was like in the background, I would
have really enjoyed seeing that up close.
I'm kind of just saying lad thatjust seems like an awful awful
way to go. It would be instant, though, he
was still yelling even as he pulled his head off.
I was like, yes, it's a little hole in his neck.

(11:35):
I will never watch that episode again.
Now have thing I saw the beheading of that one guy in the
Middle East and it just brings back memories.
Do you remember those toys that were like like it had a little
bulb on the end and you could pop them into other toys and it
may look like no, not my brights.
They're like, they're like big plastic toys and one in has a

(11:57):
hole on a. They look like bulbs kind Of and
one in has a hole in the other one has a little pollen sticks
out and like when your kid you can stick them together and make
chains. I Love Her Imagination and

(12:20):
salmon Henry. That was a kick in the guts to
like you said, I felt it coming but like how it all went down.
Ugh, if I didn't feel what Henrywas Feeling like he was like out
of his mind like totally outer body experience.
Like, what just happened? Yeah.
And he really, he really sold itto.
I mean, think about who yeah, his decisions on the acting.
Yeah. Right up.

(12:40):
Until that point, you're talkingabout a guy who sold out a man,
he actually loved Michael. It seems Kathleen is mired.
Yeah, he says, would follow him to the ends of the Earth sort
of, is kind of what he says, butdid it to save his brother
similar to Joel and Tommy as well.
Joel would probably go to the ends of the Earth, to save,
Tommy as well. I mean he is, isn't he?
Actually, yeah, there you go. Endure and survive.

(13:01):
Here he is facing that the fact that it was all for nothing to
facing off against somebody who did the same.
I feel like futility is the theme of this episode.
It's a theme that's in a lot of shows, like The Walking Dead but
they never, we never really touch on it that much, but the
futility of what their of what he did and of what anybody does.
Like Carl's an example, everything that Rick did to keep
Carl alive and it was all a futile effort because Carl died.

(13:24):
Anyway, and this I felt this waywith Sam and Henry, everything
Henry did Save Sam. And in the end it was all
futile. It was all futile, he died
anyway, but and you're supposed to do it but and which kind of
goes to Kathleen's Comet, it wasfate in the end and it makes
Kathleen weirdly, right? And maybe that's what's so great
about her character is that she was basically telling everybody,

(13:44):
this guy's not my seventh priority.
Well, let's give them a month, why don't I know she's telling
everybody, this is how it's going to go down.
I will take every single one of you down with me in the pursuit.
A, he's like, yeah, I like Michael sure.
Yeah, I loved him it. Yeah.
Oh Yeah I heard you the first time.
Let's kill some kids. Sure and they it's more than
just futility it's like Macbeth right.

(14:06):
The idea of unbridled ambition, I'm not saying that that's what
happened in Macbeth even and it's not even ambition of course
it's like Obsession I have to have this at all costs everybody
be damned and so it's fate if you want it that badly, be
careful what you wish for because you might just get it.
Like Kathleen, got it from the acrobatic clicker girl, which is
so rad to which it also is is poetic Great.

(14:29):
Because she was like fucking kids died.
And here comes a dead kid. This a crime?
Yes. But she's not wrong either.
Kids do die all the time. Even in today's society.
That's not an apocalypse kids dialed and continue that
sentence. So what makes them special?
Well, it makes them special to me that right, a difference.
Well, that's that's where you come in to the needs of the few
against the needs of the many, or the one was read some more

(14:50):
comments for more disappear to here says, this is what they did
to us throughout the entire season, 11 of The Walking Dead.
I'm still not over heart being killed so fast right from the
Ever been Community gone too soon, but I think that's weird
because I was upset that the whole Community got screwed in
the end but also relieved that we'd have to follow their story
on like way retrospect. Is that the time I was livid.

(15:11):
I wanted to see art. I actually I like the what a
badass character anyway. So let me let me continue
reading the particular says oh my God Rachel was so upset when
he got killed Harry he was way too hot for that there's a whole
conversation I need to have on this but yes it's girls is as I
saw the video to Dave. Yeah see yeah well we won't talk
about that. Even want to talk about it in
the event that you actually findit and watch it.

(15:32):
You think it's not going to be as disturbing as it is?
I don't like even whatever but what has been seen cannot be
unseen. Fortunately for me.
Yeah, fuck. Okay, potato potato.
He's like the more like a cabbage like a Cabbage Patch
head right in this one Louis says but I really like that I
didn't see that coming yet. Did you did any of you see that

(15:53):
coming when the earth started going started?
Swallowing up the truck? I was like oh, it's happening.
It's too. Totally happening.
Yeah, Louis houses. It keeps it interesting for me.
Anyway, yeah. And and you know what?
That's the thing. Let's talk about this for just a
hot SEC because we haven't really talked about The Walking
Dead news at all TWD you news, but the Daryl Dixon spin-off.
There are many many people that have been taking photos, not

(16:15):
only of the Daryl, Dixon spin-off in France but also like
dead City. They've been doing that for the
last several months. A lot of the derelicts and onset
photos from amateur photographers.
It's one of those things where Iget it.
People are dying for The WalkingDead crumbs and it's I gotta get
me some of that Norman. Reedus action on set doing the
thing that I love watching. I don't know about you guys and
maybe we can comment on this fora really hot sec.

(16:36):
How do you feel when you see these these shots?
Because from my part, I just don't want to see how the
sausage is made until maybe after.
And even then by somebody who knows what they're doing.
I don't know how it's possible, but I haven't seen any of them.
I haven't been active on Twitterat all, man.
I haven't been very active on Facebook and Instagram as far as
those things go. I don't really want to see him.
I want to be surprised. I don't want to know what's

(16:57):
coming. I happened to see something from
Ed City a while back and I was like I did not want to see that.
Thank you very much for almost forcing me to see it because
there was no spoiler warning, nocover, nothing just boom, here
it is and I'm like I didn't I didn't want to lose that Maggie
and nigga naked in bed. No, I'd be crowing about that
one. But you know, what would you be?

(17:18):
Like, I wanted to be shocked what it actually happen because
you didn't think it really would.
You're just making fun of it. Know if a picture like that came
out, I would just assume it was a Photoshop.
Yeah, same here. Yeah.
Same here. I'm on Twitter.
Like maybe twice a month. So I it's easy for me to stay
away from that stuff. I saw some pictures that AMC
released today from their old Dixon.
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Because their production Stills.It's like, that's, that's what

(17:40):
I'm talking about. Also, it's here.
It's not only, is it really a mature bad photos by bad.
Probably bad people on set somewhere in the distance, also
monsters monster. Yeah.
But like walking dead, but it's the fact that they're just so
bad, they're bad photos to, you know, your You don't really have
the clever framing of the shots are like, oh well, I wonder

(18:03):
what's going on here, right? It looks good.
And you're like, oh, what's happening here as intended, they
frame it in a way that it looks like it's from the show.
Like, oh, there's a scene that I'm watching here.
Not like, actually Norman Reedusrunning around with a wire on
his back or baggy and I'm sorry,Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Lauren
Cohan, but if you are interestedin watching things like that, I
know there's a there's an account that I follow.

(18:24):
He's a good dude. His name is Chris X.
RI Z ZZ on Twitter and The gram.So if you want to follow him you
can go there. He has all the goods on that.
It's just like it's like his thing.
Okay. It's here says, his first
instinct was to get rid of the monster.
Then it clicked that the monsterwas his brother that he risked
everything for, he truly lost it, I just felt so bad for all
of them. Yeah that's what that's a really

(18:45):
good way of putting it to Kira. I can't remember was the last
episode of the episode before but Joel told Ellie to make sure
she kept her arm covered up because people would just shoot
and not even think twice about it and Henry just proved that
point. He just shot his brother and
didn't even think about it because he was infected.
Oh wow. I didn't think of it that way at
all. Louis, says this show will throw
you a curveball every episode sofar.
I really, really like that. And it and simply to let me ask

(19:07):
you this though. Henry shot Sam after he had
turned in the midst of attackingEllie.
I don't think he would have shothim the night before just
because he was infected. I don't think he would have shot
him until he actually turned. That's I like how he gets
through a question. But Joel might have, yeah, Joel,
Joel, probably definitely would have tried to which is really,
which is why he shoots at Joel to write when all this actions

(19:28):
happening. It's Like I don't want anybody
had to have to do this. It does go back to that, comment
about that. Lieutenant goblak says to Huck
back in the CRM. In the walkie, Dipper.
I'll be on. It's like, if anybody's gonna
punish you, I'd rather be me than anybody else.
If your life, if your life is going to get ruined, let me be
the one that ruins it. All right, now, I think there's
also like this weird quick thinking, it's not even that
quick this moment feels like it lasts forever where he's going

(19:51):
back and forth between dead Sam and Joel dead Sam.
And Joel may even before that there's like this moment where
it's like I don't want to I haveto resent you by you taking him
down in a sense. Let me do it, but give me a
second. Yeah, surprise, because, yeah.
And it's that, it's so realisticto see somebody having a social
processing error. After all of this, after

(20:12):
everything we've been through, this is how it goes down.
And so, it does kind of go back to what he says about Michael.
I was willing to follow this guywilling to trust.
This guy willing to go with thisguy, he was that kind of person
that you would, you're willing to go along with him.
He does the same thing with Joel.
I'm willing to trust you, and I did when the sniper came out
while they're on the That Suburban Street ish.
And there's this moment where Henry, grab Sam, and they booked

(20:34):
it. And if the sniper bullet fires
in front of them, shoot somewhere in front of him, he
goes, nope, going back. Going back to the cartel
temperature, which like, okay, he has this one where he's like,
okay, it's every man for himselfand then he just goes right back
to Joel. He could have kept going,
probably could have gotten hurt,but he went into steady.
Yeah, he went back to back to Joe instead and trusting it and
then you trust Ellie to take SamAway by giving himself up and

(20:55):
then you get to the end. And it's like, I'm not letting
you. This is, this is me.
This is my Burden to cure says, the truck started sinking.
And Ritchie goes, remember wherethey said the clickers went, and
I just said, oh, shit. And then they bust it out.
One of the best scenes from. Yeah.
And they busted out in a way that I even, I didn't expect the
level to, which they said, you want clickers.
Here's clickers Lois's. I stay away also from the

(21:17):
spoilers. He's saying Sakura says, for me
because of the huge delay in fear starting, I didn't want to
see Snippets of a show that's not coming out until the end of
the year. Mmm, like we have no walking
dead at all. So I don't want to be reminded.
I was about to A the same thing on social media.
Actually, I was going to say something effective.
I'd rather not see anything at all, but then I also don't want
to project my thing on others. That's why I give you the

(21:38):
account of the person. I think you should follow.
If you do want that sort of thing, I don't begrudge anybody
who wants this stuff. My thing is, like, I care about
you. I care about all of you.
Is that what you really want, though?
You want the show? It shows not coming.
Yes. I want the show.
You're just edging yourself and you're not going to get off
anytime soon. I had to put it that way, but
it's true. So you just making yourself

(21:59):
hurt. I'm like that too, because my
brain starts going wild. If I see little Snippets or
images of something and then I break even popped off and I'm
like what? Yeah, I'm like, oh man.
And I certainly tell the T reasonable could be going on.
I'd rather not because you're always wrong to go One
Direction. Yes, my mind will go One
Direction. And then we find out what the
truth is and I'm like, oh, I feel like I should say this.

(22:20):
Also, some people have already said that Melissa McBride is
going to be in season 2. I have not seen any confirmation
of that, really. I think that's wishful.
Thinking that was like there wasan implication from Angela Kang
that says oh she will show up inThe Walking Dead universe and
everybody kind of assumed it would be season 2 of the Daryl
Dixon spin-off. How about we all stop making

(22:42):
assumptions and just sit back and watch and wait and but I'm
only here out anybody who actually has good evidence that
it is the case that she will show up in season 2.
I'd rather I'd rather not know. Yeah, disappointed be surprised
On top of that, even if it was the case that somebody says, oh

(23:02):
yeah, she's yeah. She's were already filming.
Anything can change. And she could be cut out of it
too, and they'll have to re-filmeverything.
It's happened. It's totally happening.
So, I'd rather not know. Oh, Madison's coming back.
Yeah, after they told us she wasn't come on, guys.
Oh well. Okay to here's a real quick.
I just want to say that people are complaining about how Darryl
story is starting over there. I kind of feel like, what else

(23:24):
did you expect? Also, whatever you're going to
watch it anyway. Just enjoy it.
Probably do hope they Like tell us how we got over there though.
Oh I hope it's like the damn like we never know and find out
in fear. The Walking Dead would be so
annoying. Finally took a bag.
Of course I would watch but yeahyeah see goodbye.

(23:45):
I mean it's way over there and see him over there.
He still dirty with all that salt water where the oil slicks
in the ocean came from. He cleaned up the oceans with
his body. Melanie lynskey.
I was Listening to another podcast that was reading an
article. She said that when they
approached her to play this part, they told her to imagine

(24:06):
that she was Jesus, sister, and there's this man that everybody
looks up to and everybody wants to follow, you know, you're
cool, you're okay, nothing wrongwith you, but you know,
everybody loves him. It's like Life of Brian, and
then he's gone, you know, what would you do?
So I thought that was a very interesting way for them to
present the story to bring the character to her and how she was
going to play it. And I get it, she has to fill

(24:27):
those shoes. I want to say, How much I
appreciate her acting not just in the show, but, like,
everything that she's done. I've seen her in other things,
and I think she's an absolutely amazing actress and when that
scene, opens, and she's standingin that room before she even
says anything. I knew immediately, that that
was her childhood bedroom. Just by the way, the look on her
face, the way she was acting thejust her all around presence.

(24:49):
I knew exactly where she was before.
She even told us, I've listened to so many people talk about
that she wasn't cast, right? And she was bad casting for the
part, and in comparison to the game, Is that nobody cares.
It doesn't right character doesn't exist in the game.
I thought she did fantastic. Yeah, she's playing it as
someone who is unsure of herselfand because that's, that was the
complaint. And, you know, for a leader,

(25:10):
she's unsure of herself, and shedoesn't seem very.
I don't even agree with that, Dryden and everything.
But the point is, she because she wasn't the leader.
He was thrust into that leadership position after the
murder of her brother, maybe this change their mind, once
they found that out. I don't even agree with the fact
that she was unsure of herself. Really?
I think she has, she's super sure of herself.
Yeah, I would agree. I love what, she's like your

(25:32):
informers inform my situation ofliving.
That wine was perfect. Yeah, last week's episode when
she was with the doctor and he was like, I had a gun pointed in
my faith. To says, she pulled her gun out.
She's like, have I satisfied your requirements necessary for
you and I just, I loved her delivery.
I thought she was perfect, it pairs.
Well, to what Jill says at the beginning of this episode to the
boys. When they, when they kind of

(25:53):
sneak up on him, he does the thing where it's like,
everything's okay, like very like Oh yeah, sure everything's
great. Thank you for toned.
Don't worry what tone should just tell he's just a showcase.
Again, I love the humor humor. They Infuse in the show because
you have a very tense, very scary situation and they still

(26:14):
managed to make it very funny. It's somewhat like The Blair
Gina episode and tales of the Walking Dead where you're like,
I'm not should I. Am I supposed to laugh?
I'm not sure. I'm okay no this is good.
I'm just not sure because I'm very nervous right now and this
is playing. Like, and it's like, it's very
because it's silly, it's very silly, but it's very tense.
I'm gonna say arguably they did it much better in the last of

(26:35):
us. I mean, not to compare.
Obviously, try not to compare apples with oranges, but it's
just that it came out of nowhere.
Blair Gina was constantly silly.I, that was my favorite episode
of tales because it was so funnyand out there.
Speaking of her childhood bedroom, there was one thing
that I wanted to bring up in. That was like you, I really
liked the way. Her body language told that
story how she was kind of just taking a break from Knowing that

(26:59):
what she has to do, is pretty ugly, and Michael.
Definitely, she explains later wouldn't want her to do this and
there was something about needing, to send her herself at
home that kind of brought me back because I used to do this
thing where I used to my uncle still lives in the town where I
grew up in. And have you done that, where
you've gone to your own shot, your own childhood home or kind
of circle the block where it wasand how did that make you feel

(27:20):
too? Because I do want to link it to
this episode, so you cryogenic. Yes.
Yeah. I cried that's what this at the
same time you cried also, because you can't go back. 20.
I wanted to like your back. I wanted, I wanted to.
Yes, same here, but it's like, even if you go back it's
somebody else's floor is its somebody else's take or it's not
the way you exactly remember it.But things are different.

(27:41):
Childhood home is like around the corner from me.
I could walk there right now andit would be nothing.
And I knew the people that live there.
So she invited me in and like, let me walk around and I'm like,
the couches in the wrong spot. Yeah, yeah, even if you know
them, even if you're inside it'snot like you can never go back.
I Like that little bit of struggle that you don't really
see in Kathleen. But you know it's as though

(28:03):
she's either saying goodbye likeI need to go full evil and I
Need to Say Goodbye that beautiful part of me that
represents Michael in order to do what I have to do.
She said she never had a beautiful part.
She said himself because he was beautiful but I never was she
even admitted it? I think he represents the
beautiful part of her. That's what it is and maybe it's
that he kept her beautiful or made her.

(28:24):
See the beauty and things. It's why she wasn't part of the
resistance not really, right? Did we get like Age difference
between them was one. Older was one younger where they
twins was anything like that mentioned?
I don't think so. I do feel like Michael was the
older of the two, he comforted her.
When she was scared in the room.He made up the stories, okay?
I got the impression he was older, but I didn't know if it

(28:45):
was said at any point Henry, I'mfrom Boise has calls him like a
man. But another way he kind of
describes Michael was like a man, the kind of, man, or a know
if he said old man or older man or something in the way.
He said, I wish, I'd written it down.
Like it made it seem like he wasThat he was like an older
person. A lot of it too.
Is Michael made her feel safe and now that he's gone.
She doesn't feel safe anymore. She's afraid, she wasn't afraid

(29:07):
when he was there and now she's afraid.
Fear leads to anger makes you stupid ass to make these because
hate hate leads to suffering killed.
So Star Wars, right? Isn't it?
Yeah. Yoda very wise.
And you know, if TW DUI anger makes you stupid stupid gets,
you killed her anger, and her fear, did lead to everybody
suffering because now they're all fucking dead.

(29:28):
I'm not even sure. If it's fear, I feel like she
really committed. I feel like she went full Sith
before. She knew what going full.
Seth would mean she had to be sure of herself.
She had to let go of that beautiful part of herself
because that ugly part of herself made them win.
The war, the Revolution. Let's go to the comments, like,
hey, Rachel went to the mermaid.Where undershirt now, you know

(29:49):
what? There's things keeps going
though. Thomas says it was here.
So she definitely wanted him, nomatter what, the same way Henry
couldn't live without his brother, she couldn't.
If without hers, and neither could Henry, hmm.
When he lost it, right? The person responsible,
technically really is dead. So who else is there to blame?
But everybody's in this, no, except I am very curious, where

(30:10):
Kathleen's mother is. I don't think she was out there
fighting, so whole town was an out there, but now that the
zombies are on the loose that Kansas City qz is They're All
Dead. They're just going to come in
and attack them. So she's dead too.
And also want to make it pretty clear that I don't know what
age, they're purporting. Kathleen to be compared to her
brother. Isn't day, but we have to also

(30:30):
remember that this a 20-year time Jump.
So if she's in her foots, just say she's in her even late for
tea. This whole thing started when
they were in their 20s, where she was in her twenties, at the
very least, still pretty young that you know, you're kind of
getting your foot and you don't really know what's going on in
peaceful times. You're a baby.
You're home in college maybe or just add a college and don't
really know what life is in all of a sudden just like Kathleen

(30:50):
had to take over the revolution.You have to suddenly become an
adult and you have to figure things out so she doesn't know
what she's doing but she feels like she has to be sure to hear
says Blair Regina, that was definitely my favorite episode.
And Thomas is why the Scarecrow when toward here says my
childhood was just Solid Rock with just sold like two years
ago. And when I lived in town my
grandma lived there. Yeah, I went back to my

(31:12):
childhood home a couple of yearsago and they tore it down
because it was on a two acre lot, so they tore it down and
built two different houses on it.
That's how my childhood home is no longer there.
It's not even bad. So sad progress right now.
I almost don't know what's worse.
If Is there and you want to go back or if it's not there and
you can't like, you literally physically can't, they're both

(31:34):
pretty bad. And they always, I mean right
now, iíve made an active decision to not go back anymore.
I used to go every Thanksgiving.If I could afford it, I would
just buy my childhood home when I was a kid and we moved out of
that house. That was like my focus my goal
was to buy that house back I don't have that big of a dream
but I get you I feel you so hardfor years, six years, maybe
more, I'm mourn and response allthe Thomas's Jokes which are

(31:57):
good. Okay, I'll just say a few, it's
not Time flies like an arrow fruit flies, like a banana.
So the guy who invented zero thanks for nothing.
Rachel says he got his God. What kind of concert only cost
45 cents? If it's any consolation, he had
a crazy dream last night. I was swimming in an ocean of
orange soda, turns out, it was just a fantasy.
Ladies, if you can appreciate your fruit drinks, you need to

(32:19):
let that man, go, man. Come on the piano, but you can't
tuna fish anyways. So relevant.
Okay anyway, anyway, well, that's it.
Why did the chicken or Alive? Why did the chicken heart?
Why did the Easter egg hide? Because he was a little chicken.
I hope these jokes don't come back on the show, how this is

(32:42):
gonna go down. Listen, I don't blame you, I
would be doing the same exact thing as your Tom is honestly
and legitimately consistent crying.
So, I read an article about the making of the bloater suit.
It was mostly practical effects a little bit of CGI.
Wow, that's really surprising. It was the CGI just for scale.

(33:04):
They didn't really go into that part.
The guy that they got to play him.
Also was in Game of Thrones, I think you played one of the
white walkers, they took a cast of his body, they built the suit
in sections and arms legs, they made out of foam.
I forget the name of it but theysaid it's almost like upholstery
foam. Like, in the couch, it's
probably a foam latex. Yeah, I think if you do was
foam, latex, they were describing how they wanted,
pendulous folds of fungus. It's all sculpted and the entire

(33:29):
suit weighs like 88 pounds. Oof sounds about right.
They zip the guy into it. They said it takes like an hour
to get him in the suit, didn't because they want it to like
stand out in the first to look like fungus.
And they also wanted to stand out in the firelight.
So then coated it with like thisjelly stuff to make it
iridescent to make it really shiny and they're like how much
that added? How much weight that added on to
the suit? Oh, there were like in between.

(33:51):
We have to stop filming to go slather more jelly and stuff on
this guy, but it's really interesting.
I think, I think you would really enjoy reading about it
because it was really interesting.
Yeah, you're gonna have to send me that cost a small fortune
just to get that right? Wow.
Oh, I bet, I bet following text is very absorbent so I'm sure
it's like, every time they had to slather on more jelly.
It probably just soaked up and added another five pounds, 10

(34:14):
pounds, every time they had to do it.
Last week, what we'd said, what would that look like?
A bloater in a TV series? That doesn't do the spores as
the transmission mechanism. Well, basically, imagine a few,
he looked Like Groot got trappedon the Fear, The Walking Dead
set and got exploded with nuclear bombs.
He looks like a nuclear irradiated Groot and oh man.

(34:36):
Yeah I think that's a pretty accurate.
Yeah, it did. But it look it looked like a
just a basically a suit of mycelial armor.
Its enhanced his strength because I don't know if they're
gonna do this on the show, but in reality with the cordyceps do
in real life and this is something that they didn't think
of when they were doing the video game, the video game they
make it seem as though it's in the brain, but really the
cordyceps attack the muscle A the scary part is the thing that

(34:59):
we were saying about what if theguy was in there, the infected
that was in the basement that were saying oh he nodded maybe
or there was a connection with Ellie and The Infected that was
spooky. Well it could actually be that
person was actually in there buthe's just so hijacked that
there's nothing at all that he could do about it including
this. Bloater that tour Perry's head

(35:20):
off. Sorry Rachel I think maybe
sorters I don't know how this works.
This attraction of yours like made if he doesn't die, then You
can't be attracted to him, but if he does die, which is sadder
if I like a character. It's just like signing his
death. Warrant.
That's right. That's right.
I'm still confused, that's fine.It doesn't have to make sense.
It just is what it is. Well, let's keep going on.

(35:40):
The note of things that are in the video game that are not in
the show but are in the show when they get to the it's a
fallout shelter, that was converted into like a living
space. And then they see on the wall is
childhood drawing of Danny and ish, which is in the video
games. And I took a little minute out
because this is something that wasn't in A little set of notes.
Because if may have not noticed,Bridget's not here today, she's

(36:01):
feeling ill. She has a fever now and it's
sucky. And I wish she was here.
But what wasn't in her notes wasthe story of Danny mesh and
actually it's kind of interesting because it's like a
foil for this episode as it goes.
I found this from deck, Saratogacomments, d, e XE, R t0.com, and
here are the cliff notes, right?When the outbreak happens ish
heads out to sea. So easily, he has like a
trawler. He heads out to sea and this is

(36:22):
originally, by the way in Philly.
So there's the channel near Trenton, all that stuff.
So that makes sense, but eventually We set up a safe
house in a sewer in Pittsburgh kind of like sort of like what
it looks like here even with thecastles painted and everything.
Exactly exactly had the kids paint Castle on it here, when he
needed supplies. He headed out to nearby suburbs
of Philly or Pittsburgh. No, it's Philly.
Affiliates Burke its Pittsburgh Pittsburgh.

(36:43):
Yeah, I was, you shouldn't confuse the to keep in your mind
Pittsburgh because that's what this story comes from.
He headed to the nearby suburbs to get supplies to go back to
the sewers. And when he went out one day, he
met a family whose members are Susan, the mother Kyle, in their
children, instead of shooting them.
Traded with them issue. Eventually invited them to stay
with him in the sewers, the relationship built the
foundation of a new community complete with a school beds and

(37:04):
working showers Danny arrived and befriended ish.
Danny's this new guy, they became friends, basically the
whole Community, refer to them as their protectors.
That which is why you see Danny and ish are our protectors.
They assumed the role of protector, Salvage, supplies,
and weapons supplies, weapons and ammo, they went out.
They did the things that came back, they provided for the
community, they protect them. Someone left one of the doors to
the safe house, open the infected horde flooded in Danny

(37:26):
and issue. Were separated fish, escapes
with Susan in some of the other children, not hers, Danny's
presumed to be dead. By the way, these are all
accumulated from notes that you find throughout the room, right?
In the game, be kind of piece itall together.
Kyle, the husband was locked in a room with the remaining
children. His and some of the others, the
infected are clawing to get in its implied.
From the note that he shot the children, then shot himself to

(37:49):
spare them from the infected. It's sad sad.
But like this self-sacrifice, instead of in this episode I'm
doing it all because I Honor or I'm doing it all, to save one
person ich and Susan settled in the suburbs where they lived out
the remainder of their days, with their adopted children that
they save in his final words in these notes is does, doesn't
give up hope, because he's seen the good, we're capable of it's

(38:12):
like the exact opposite of this episode.
He goes on for Susan in their children.
It's just kind of interesting tosee where the show is sort of
headed in terms of like, we're going to have to face some
choices in some of those choicesobjectively, don't sound like
the choices that we typically. Ali would make in a TV series.
You could look at it from Kathleen's point of view in,
totally agree with her, in some senses, if not for the fact that

(38:35):
these are children. If not for the fact that many
things like, oh, I have to take care of my people, but like, you
would want to feel like that bitch has to die.
But why do we, why do we side with?
Why do we side with salmon, Henry?
Why it could have just easily gone the other way?
Why do we even side with Joel? Joel doesn't give a shit really
sort of, it's written to make a side with them.
When what do we always say aboutThe Walking Dead and Negan, if
we had been on Kathleen side from the beginning, We'd

(38:57):
probably be on Kathleen side. It's all perspective, yeah.
You hear what you hear in the first episode?
And, you know, oh they're obviously the bad guys at the
beginning of this episode, when I watched it again, and I was
looking at the collaborators, and it's a similar scene.
So when we see doctor, is it Edelman?
And it's a similar scene to Edelman.
Here we go again, we have guns to these peoples and this is
from earlier. So, we know that she kills these

(39:18):
people, without doing it herselffirst time around.
Then, with Edelman, she specifically shoots him herself,
meaning I'm not pretending anymore and part of me is
actually with her in this. Episode as opposed to Edelman,
it's almost as if they wanted toget her disgust factor out of
the way the last episode in the present day.
So that when you go back to the revolution it's like she it was
always going to go this way. You do kind of see her side that

(39:39):
all these people contributed to the misery that they must have
experience and Henry. Only further reinforces that
when he's talking to Joel. Oh.
Is that that Casey Federer, the one that raped and tortured
people? Yeah.
That case e qz. I tried to kind of see it from
her point of view, some point. And then you get to the end
you're like, oh this is ugly, it's not something.
I could get behind even until the end.
She can't let go of her anger and her hate and neither can

(40:03):
Joel their reflections of each other.
Yeah, she couldn't move on. Joel hasn't been able to move on
and then after losing Sam, Henry, can't move on and kills
himself instead. They've all taken different
routes to deal with it. Because Joel didn't take the
Revenge route Kathleen, took theRevenge route, Joel took the
just cut everybody off and be bymyself route and Henry killed
himself. But L he's the one that goes on

(40:26):
right and has to go on And she admits in this episode.
I like that this was revealed her biggest fear is not, I'm not
going to get those motherfuckers.
Who tried to kill? My family is not revenge or
anything. She's just afraid to be alone.
She's afraid to wander alone. She's also afraid that if she's
the only one who has immunity that everybody is eventually
going to die and she's going to be completely alone.

(40:46):
Oh, man, that is a good point tobring up for those who actually
know what happens in The Gangs because I don't.
So please don't say anything. No, and that's fine.
I just, I wanted to say that to drop a pin in that, because No,
I haven't watched the games either but I know things that
happened. I feel like we're on an
interesting slow-moving, Collision Course when it comes
to some of these ideas that are going to be happening.

(41:07):
Maybe we don't know, obviously the people who play the games
new kind of knew how the Henry Sam storyline was going to play
out and it did play out the sameway.
We didn't know what did you think when Ellie started
smearing her blood all over? I actually did know that they
were going to die. I didn't know how.
I didn't know the context. I had just heard.
Yes, they died. So I Didn't know that they were

(41:28):
going to. So I didn't know if her blood
magic was going to work or not, but I didn't think it would.
I didn't? I hoped it would.
I know I'm watching it and I went, oh, oh Ellie.
I don't think it works that way.But in the back of my mind, I'm
like, maybe the most important thing was, even if it didn't
work, she gave him the Comfort. She gave him hope that?

(41:51):
Yes, it this could work. What I was wondering, which I
guess they kind of answered at the end was so Clickers Our Only
By Hearing they use sonar licking etcetera.
So how would it affect him? As someone who is deaf?
Which apparently he didn't change his hearing.
But he was also newly infected Ihad.
He moved on. Would he have been able to hear?
No no. This one.
That's what saying like I just, I was interested in what would

(42:13):
happened. He'd be the most helpless of
clickers / bloaters. If you just be terrible you'd
feel sorry for an infected thingperson sort of since they're
like all connected or whatever. If he got into a group with
other ones and they were like Food?
He wouldn't hear it, but he might have that sense like food
this way. You don't even imagine what that
making sense? No, no.

(42:34):
Yeah. But, can you imagine what that
would look like? He'd have the sense and then
run, right into a wall because eventually the eyes, right?
Because the eyes go out, right? And so that's it, that's the
last one. Do they all eventually turn into
the to the face Blobby things? Because every time future for
all of them, there's like seven different stages.
I was reading watching somethingabout earlier boy, the runners,
the early infection when they still are they would be running

(42:56):
humanish. These are the ones that are
still vaguely human, their skin is blotched and they're angry
coordinated, they run fast. Then there's clickers is a
further, iteration that's like three or four steps down.
I forget what the shamblers I think.
They're the ones that have the growths and shit that come out
of their heads, like the one in the basement.
Yeah. Like the one that got tests like

(43:16):
the one that got test. Yeah.
Like the one I'm making, right? Mmm.
And then you have the clicker worse and then you have the
blowers. But clickers are like after 10
years and bloaters are like after 20 did anybody notices?
Backstory that they wrote for her on the show or on the other
show on the show and do nothing.Oh no.
So heard that backstory was she was married and had a son.
And then the outbreak, they tried to survive and her husband

(43:39):
and her son turned. And she killed her husband, but
she couldn't bring herself to kill her son so she locked him
in the basement. And so, he's been down in the
basement for 20 years. So her son would be a bloater.
They never brought it out in theshow, but let me drop a pin on
that, actually, I kind of Imagine given the fact that they
bring the Danny and ish story into this world that you have to
remember that. What happened when that whole
thing went down in this story, was that somebody left the door

(44:02):
open? When ish and Susan was her name
and the other kids left, they locked.
All of the infected in kind of like Madison and Diamond.
She lock them in so that they wouldn't get out.
And I kind of like to imagine that when the truck came down,
that's Danny and dishes infectedand they were able to get out
again and save sort of at least Jolla ceases.
And again, is that what you're saying?

(44:23):
Another dead to that's fine. Maybe a one of the theories was
difficult to survive. The all girl was one of the
infected they had gotten fatter children from yeah.
There you go. Well the circle is complete.
Yeah. Early on in the show I can't
remember if it's episode one or two but Ellie asked Joel about
the life cycles and he said mostlast a couple of months, some 20
years, some up to 20 years. So most only last a couple of

(44:46):
months, they turn into the guy that was on the wall in the
museum, sewers are no never the museum.
It was in the me when they went down to the museum and the it
was like it was episode 1 when they first met.
Examine the guy with all begins or maybe episode 2.
Well no the one episode one the one that was against the wall
the first one you see technically whether they stopped
yeah they stopped and they look at it really closely.

(45:07):
I don't remember when episode itis, but my dad for I think
that's what happens to most of them.
And then you have the shamblers stage where they grow the shit
out of our mouths and all that the clickers and the bloaters
they've been around a long time but they are not the majority.
I don't think. Oh Thomas says and this is
something I don't even know thatwe brought up.
Isis ripped s the character but he also says Is the actress who

(45:27):
played was it tests in the videogame?
Forget her name. Yeah, she had passed on.
She was like, she's only 45. I think it was, yeah.
My gosh, I'm not mistaken voice actress.
The one that plays the video game, exactly.
Oh, dang. Yeah, she should play an actress
in real life too. Things that you would know to
I'll bring it up in the blog, I just can't recall it now and I
really don't want, I don't want to go back to look but yeah, and
that happened a couple weeks agoto think it was.

(45:49):
Yeah unfortunately I love that Sam.
Got a little bit of being a kid before he died.
Yeah, I did too. He got to play with a And they
were kicking the soccer ball around and playing with toys and
reading comic books and laughingand joking.
And if Ellie to for that few minutes, they got to be kids and
forget about what the fuck was happening.
And I love that before he died, such a mix of emotions and

(46:11):
before the innocence and Ellie died as yes, she saw test get
killed and yes she's seen other people get killed and yet she's
killed other people but think that was different for her was
Sam. Sam was just a little kid, just
like her close to home. Yeah.
She got to know him and be his friend and they were gonna
travel together. Gether and now he's just gone.
Ellie still going to be Ellie, but I think that is a fact is
going to affect her way more than tested.

(46:32):
It's even sadder to know that test kind of warmed up, ish near
the end, but it doesn't even matter if she did, or she didn't
when you mark your development by those, you lose along the way
who protected you think of what Tessa's driving force to get
Joel and Ellie out of there fastwas she has the Cure, it's worth
the risk, do the things, Joel, save the world.
Then you have Sam, which is likejust be a kid.

(46:54):
Something Joel kept saying in the last two episodes, he's like
it. Have to be this way for you.
Does it get easier as an adult? No.
But that's not the way it shouldbe.
And so you lose Sam you lose that part of you, the ability to
actually be a kit and you kind of see her change at the end of
this episode. Is this how it's going to be for
me? Okay, so now what's the next one
that Mark Sally's loss? Going back to test her driving
force was well I have to do it for test.

(47:15):
I have to save the world for tests.
Am I have to be a kid for Sam? So what other thing is going to
make her be down the line. When we start meeting these
other narratives and you pick upthe things that people wanted
you to be alone. The way.
So like what are the things is she going to take in the future
to shape the larger Arc? I think I'm trying to say
something without saying something, but like it's very,
very interesting to see where this is going when we get into

(47:37):
the question of weighing the needs of the many against.
I mean, the needs of the few or the one, but Ellie is different,
isn't she? Because she is actually more
important than most people. Even though most people don't
know, that is the cost of protecting Ellie worse and not
even on a personal level, but just on the level of, she's may
have the key to saving everybody, right?
But after seeing Humanity, how much of humanities were saving

(47:59):
either boy, that's a really, really good point and you take
the idea of revolutionaries and then you see what it actually
looks like on the ground. It's like Joel says people,
right people suck like, even thepeople who claim they want the
thing, the freedom yeah. They keep saying things like
freedom, freedom, and fuck fedra, and and, and just all the
things that people say when theywant freedom, right?

(48:21):
But what is freedom looked like to them.
Oh, let's just do the things they did to us but like
accelerated. Maybe even worse, say what you
will about fedra, at least theirtrials were sham trials.
The appearance of what it might look like for Freedom.
This was just like Banana Republic, not even Banana
Republic. It was just fall out.
Chaos number like how they were saying collaborator is give

(48:43):
yourselves up and you'll get a fair trial and we knew later on
that that wasn't going to be true.
But what are they what are they dragging behind them to inspire
people to come out? They were dragging a body with
tons and tons of knives in the front of it.
Albeit slowly. They dragged the body out slowly
in a tank but I wanted to actually touch on something
specific and that was what you'dsaid, is it worth saving the one

(49:05):
person? If it means everybody else dies
or going after that one thing. If everybody, it's at everybody
else's expense Kathleen, almost answers that question in a weird
way that Michael was worth it. Where is the Justice in that?
Why should he be robbed of the chance of that Justice that
beautiful person that should exist in this world?
And I think that's very interesting for people who know

(49:25):
what happens down the line. A very interesting question
because what is life worth living if you're not protecting
the things you love? Or if you're not protecting
something that is beautiful. Otherwise you just serve, you're
just surviving. You're just going on for the
sake of going on. And sometimes the beauty of a
person is shined so bright but to Snuff it out the world loses

(49:46):
something. Even if you quote unquote like
you said charity is the war is Humanity worth saving even but
people like her like Ellie or Michael or Sam like to Snuff
them out for something bigger. The Loses something tangible of
value. When you do that it's something
that like you don't really thinkabout.
Because you look at the trolley problem, the utilitarian
philosophy of thought, the trolley problem, obviously is

(50:06):
designed to confront you with a philosophical.
Question of, whether you would kill the one guy on the tracks
to save all the people in the church in the trolley or you'd
be willing to derail the trolleyfor the one person that's on the
tracks, the obvious logical answer is the one person on the
track has to die to save all these other people with this
series is teaching us. Is that okay?
Now what if you knew the person on the Tracks.

(50:27):
What now, what if that was your daughter?
What now is not one person that would derail that train in a
heartbeat, it all comes back, down to them or us.
That's the same thing that was going on in The Walking Dead.
It was always them or us that mentality when you don't have a
centralized unit unifier runningthrough your Society
governmental agencies, or like, like fire, departments, we,

(50:49):
whatever there's nothing holdingyou all together.
It just becomes Us and Them, I mean, nobody's even picking up
the trash for goodness sake. Is no system in place now, but
you're right to kind of compare things.
Rick is ready to sacrifice his own Sons right arm or left arm.
It was to keep everybody else safe.
And I think that was an interesting and interesting
comparison is right? There's a part of you now.
LM feel like I'm looking at Rachel at this one.

(51:11):
Isn't there a part of you that says, there's no way.
I'm even harming, my kid for therest of these fuckers.
That's it. I'm not that good at guy, right?
She shakes her head, Pat person her lips saying no, but like
that, right? But if you're going to get hurt,
I'm going to be the one to do it.
Oh, oh well, Kurt is different than like kill this membered,

(51:32):
right? Say it was an arm.
If I had to break my kids, arm to save a whole community of
people and have to think about it.
And you know what, that's actually good enough, right?
Because I know there's that inner part of it's like I'm a
fucking hero of this story. Like everyone wants to kill
everybody to save everybody. So you had to cut one of his
fingers off to save everybody. Pinky doesn't take the finger

(51:55):
back to make it a little bit. Knuckle drank to the first
knuckle, right? You first knuckle I haven't I'd
have to reread have to have a real long conversation with him
beforehand. There's no, there's no time.
We're dead. We'll talk.
We'll talk about it later. Have to talk about it.
Talk about it, we'd have to talkabout it first.
No, no, you already killed somebody by the time you talk
now. Two people.
Got killed Rachel, hurry up, figure it out.

(52:16):
No pressure. No pressure.
No pressure is Archer help. No, I mean, sorry, not sorry, do
the things. Rachel doing now, if it's going
to be done, would it be better for you to do it or some DLC.
Right? And you know what, I as
horrifying that is that is that,is that kind of Sophie's choice
or whatever you want to call it?Yeah.
Truth is, I'd rather be me, I mean, remember Old Yeller barely

(52:37):
but yes, very few. All got Joey.
No, no, I won't do it. Have the book I didn't ever read
it? No, I've seen the movie, too,
but I read the book seen Louis, as the things you do for love.
Yeah. Oh and I wanted to say
something, he's Thomas said before.
He says, why are you laughing at?
Was it childhood trauma? No, it's because of your jokes.
Yeah, Thomas oh, okay. So speaking of How to trap gate.

(52:58):
So something that it didn't dawnon me until watching this
episode because I didn't know the man's name.
But dr. Edelman the guy a Kathleen
shoots in the first episode. We see him again in this episode
because we do flashback to 10 days ago or 11 days ago and we
find out that dr. Edelman most likely Jewish
shuttles to safety to individuals in the Attic of a
house and I thought that was an interesting foil for lying.

(53:20):
Frank the didn't notice is the first time around but I was like
interesting. Very, very interesting to see
that. And of course, yeah.
Yeah, being grilled in almost the same manner, but not the
same manner. But like the idea of what
happens to people who did this during the Holocaust.
There's a I think the story was in Holland.
I want to say it was, it was in Holland.
It was Netherlands. It was a damn.
I just listened to a podcast about what happened to Anne

(53:42):
Frank after they were found at the annex how they did in the
concentration camps, as if it was very depressing.
I didn't know that we knew what happened afterwards but I guess
time and records and Frank and her mother and her sister, and
the mother of Peter was the young boy.
She had a crush on one of that stayed there to his mother.
Also, they all got sent to the same concentration camp.
At first, even before Anne Frank's dad, published her

(54:05):
diary, and she became a famous name.
This woman had already publishedsomething about knowing and
Frank's mother in the concentration camp and from her,
they got a lot of the information plus, there were
some records left that mean, they don't have specifics, they
don't even know the specific daythat she died or anything like
that but they figured out through records and from other
people's accounts, what happenedto her for the Most part how

(54:27):
they found all the stuff out wasreally interesting, but it was
also really fucking depressing, it follows that they to the
Nazis to Must Have Done away with collaborators without a
trial or anything like that extra dishes killing.
It wasn't only Jewish people that were sit right Angela.
That's what I'm saying. Yes it was homosexuals people
with disabilities. Communists gypsies.

(54:48):
Yep Gypsy is the Jewish population.
Of course, the larger section ofago but it wasn't all Jewish.
Yeah. When you see it, you can't
unsee. It is what I'm saying.
Okay. So Thomas says German sausage
jokes are just the worst wo you rst.
I'm not reading the next one. That's I'm Jewish and I can't
read that one but it's on the screen if you have YouTube, so

(55:11):
there you go. Oh, let's talk about the Savage,
Starlight comic book. This is something that Bridget
had mentioned in the last episode because I don't think
they wanted to take away from bills magazine too much in the
truck. How she finds it a little, the
pages are sticky. So funny but they were supposed
to bring It up in the truck instead they break.
They decide to bring it out later in this.
I guess his playroom sort of community fallout shelter with

(55:34):
all the toys and stuff. So they find the comic book Sam
and Ellie Bond over it. And basically you get the title
of this episode which is Savage,Starlights catchphrase.
The full catchphrase is to the edge of the universe and back
and Doran survive. Being the title of this episode.
So she's ironic but it's Again, Sam did not exactly.
It's kind of the irony of, is itworth sacrificing that beautiful

(55:56):
thing like Harry. If it was a beaut in order to
survive, it worth surviving, if something beautiful is taken out
from the world because it's likeendure and survive it, that's
redundant right there. Bang on that was my favorite
line out of Joel was when Henry said it's kind of redundant in
the his reply was a yeah, it's not that great, but the way you
said it just made me laugh so hard.

(56:19):
Like I've said before, it's not really the three actors do.
It's the little things that actors do that make their
performances. So great and it's just the way
he delivered that Outline right on top of what Henry Henry said
he just delivered. Yeah, it's not that great.
But if it was so good kudos to you, Pedro, Pascal here on the
note of that. One thing that I thought of in
the beginning was I tried to really put myself in Henry's
head. Space Henry is a teenager.

(56:40):
These two were both born after the fall.
Most likely. Andre seems to still be a
teenager where are his parents. Oh, okay.
So now he has to take care, Sam Malone, how afraid do you have
to be? Or at least pretend to not be
afraid all the time and now everybody around you that
Existed around you except for maybe dr.
Adelman wants you dead and probably Sam by association.

(57:02):
How frightening is that think ofparents today?
Rachel, when you first have yourchild, you're holding this
fragile thing in your arms, if Ilet go from one second, this
child is damaged for life at best, but that feeling of like
this is a precious thing. I'm holding.
And then they grow up in that feeling, you know, you start get
little that haven't fucked up yet, but, yeah, but you see,

(57:23):
it's still there. Now, Henry children, taking Care
of children. So I'll take it back to what you
just said. Charity.
Don't worry. And Edelman is looking at
Henry's like saying he's afraid because you look afraid and
Henry's trying but he's not really succeeding.
You get to the end and Sam asks,Ellie are you just like never
afraid essentially? He's like you just never scared.
He's like bitch I'm scared all the time and most of all of

(57:46):
being alone because when she jokes and she says of scorpions,
he cut he's upset. Am I the only one who's afraid?
It makes you feel isolated and alone when others around, you
aren't feeling the same way thatyou do.
My, the problem, what's the point of me being here, if
everybody's going to be so afraid for me and I'm terrified
but when she finally makes it, I'm afraid to be alone.
You see it on his face. He feels a little bit better.
I'm not alone. Oh, she's terrified all the

(58:07):
time. Why didn't they just tell me why
didn't you tell me that? Because we go back to share and
his comment about Henry and Joeljoking about the stupid line and
during survive. What the fuck is that?
It's the first time I saw and you see moments of like, when
Sam is playing Henry actually allows himself to Smiles.
Like haven't heard that so long as I have his kids.
Finally, like being a kid, I canactually relax as the The child,
having it be having to be an adult of time?

(58:29):
Doesn't know what he's doing, I'm sure.
But then, when you get to the line where he says enduring
survive, it's stupid. It's like, it's also the first
time I saw Henry, actually, and Joel by extension acknowledging
that Henry's like a man like oh we're bonding over this dumb
thing. This dumb adult thing to dad's
watching their kids. Yeah even though Ellie and Joel
both denied it immediately. You're not my dad coming dad.

(58:53):
Not at all cargos its cargo On that note, though, Joel still
kind of doesn't want to react toEllie having fun.
Also, you still feel that littlebit.
Like, I don't want to have attachment by the end of this
episode. I also feel like Ellie herself
because Sam dies is getting Joel's.
Vibe is like, well, let's go where's West, okay, hurry up old

(59:15):
man like that. Kind of like, oh man, I don't
want to have to get attached to this guy who's taking care of
me, because it's all just going to end up this way.
I'm gonna end up caring about him.
He's gonna die. He's obviously old, uh, he's
dead. He's dead.
I mean obviously God forbid we go up another flight of stairs.
It's he's done. He's a dumb.
He's like comes out. I mean I totally get it Joel.

(59:35):
Right. So in Ellie does to she's like
man if I had to go up another set of stairs and wait for him
to breasts like an oldie. So she's feeling it to the show
is good, but I think the humors what's really elevating it
because if you presented this show without the elements of
humor, you have The Walking Dead.
Even The Walking Dead here in Paris, did it really did it?

(59:56):
You couldn't take all this heavyhorrible heaviness without the
humor in it. But same thing, we Game of
Thrones by the way on Q. By the way, Thomas says 45
minutes is greater than three hours to make me feel bad
tongue. It's an hour and 30 minutes in
just assume everybody knows in the audio podcast when I cut it
down to an hour. Basically just cut out all Tom's

(01:00:17):
jokes, when the audio podcast will be going down to 45
minutes. Oh mission accomplished.
Thanks Tom. No, what will release a separate
episode with All the times jokesand US.
React them about that Tom. You like that.
I won't do it but I'll say I'll do it.
Just so mean today. Tom and I should have a joke off
one night. Oh that would be like epic rap
battles and Big Pun battles. Have a joke.

(01:00:40):
I joke battle. We should be get a charity,
whatever do next to theirs. Yeah, joked exactly.
Which is constant joke, book. Thomas is the podcast.
Doesn't start till I walk. Walk in metaphorically.
If you walk in here right now, Iwill shit.
How did you get in here? I know you're not that far away
from me. A lot of this episode does, lift
shot for shot. Things from the game to like the
sniper scene that was in the game where Joel has to get in

(01:01:00):
there and take him out. And even that one scene felt
very, very video game image thatI've seen dead in the game
though, the guys yelling insultsand shit at you that he's
shooting at you. Yeah.
Okay. I can see how cutting that out
would have been like, okay, thisis a little bit on the
ridiculous, there's ridiculous in this to ridiculous.
I liked that they change it to be like, please don't just wait

(01:01:21):
here. I don't wanna have to kill an
old man, which goes to show likewhat it took to beat Federer.
And also kind of how Joel has progressed because old Joel
would have just shot the dude, straight up, but he doesn't want
to do it anymore. Plus, I don't think he knows
that, that dude is connected to the Kansas City, qz until the
radio goes off. So till I don't because I don't
I don't think he even knows. He thinks is just some crazy

(01:01:43):
dude, blocked up in a house shooting at him.
You know what's interesting about this when I first watched
the episode I actually thought that oh this is just some old
coot. That's just trying to kill
people. That's what I thought.
She's get up there and it is. Yeah.
But it see where he's with the qz but I I want to say this at
first but I noticed that, like, isn't this old guy almost like
this weird? I don't know, he's kind of
dress, like, Joel in a way. Feel like he was looking at

(01:02:04):
himself. Do you bro.
You don't, why do you gotta jointhese people body got to do
these things? Do you know what Kathleen's
doing right now is trying to kill these kids.
Oh, you're trying to kill these kids to don't do it, man.
Just Put the Gun Down live live.The rest of your days.
You got this far man. You got.
Martin wouldn't just kiss? If Kathleen has found out that
he didn't and let him go, then he'd be dead.

(01:02:26):
Anyway, right. Was kind of like what I was
saying last week, right? Oh, do you really want to upset
the man? That beat the man.
Really getting extra dish. Ously killed like all the
collaborators and all the federal workers on The Walking
Dead. One of the things they I think
it was they brought it to Carol was, you want to take out the
head of the government but you don't have anything to replace
it with talking about Commonwealth.
You want to take out the head ofthe beast but you're not

(01:02:48):
replacing it with anything. Well, that was part of the
problem. What happened here in Kansas
City after they took out fedra, instead of setting up a fucking
working government day, Solely on Revenge because of Kathleen.
So, instead of all those resources, they could.
Yes, you have your debauchery, the first night, and you fucking
kill all the federal people, whatever.
The next day, it's down to business.
You've got to set up the government.

(01:03:08):
You got to keep things running, but they don't do that.
They took all their Manpower andeverything into finding
collaborators and because of that, they're fucking City
Falls, because nobody's preparedand nobody's ready and I'll talk
about in the city to, you know, the people in the actual qz or
not prepared for this whole world that's going to run at
them. They haven't had to deal with a
horde and years and years and years, right?
And they refused to close the doors, which I'm very nervous.

(01:03:30):
I was nervous about the times two episodes, like there's
probably innocent people there to have to assume, right?
Let's go back to the Holocaust. Even after the Holocaust, they
had trials, they went through all the inventory.
Everything they could that get their hands on to say here.
This is why you're being put to death, here's the list.
So this way everybody can fit atleast feel good about it.
But let's take that and put thataside, I think up until like a

(01:03:52):
certain point, actually, I felt bad for the people.
These revolutionaries not the people partying.
Stabbing and raping and humiliating and then killing
people out in the street. But there's got to be people out
there that kids and old people like the old coot up in the
Mansion shooting at the two kids.
Maybe I don't feel that bad but up until when Perry says we
loved him too and we're with youthat's when I said check, please

(01:04:13):
I can't get behind because partyyou looks at Perry and first of
all he's gorgeous but part of you looks apparent, you're like
oh he's likes us, he's looking sus at Kathleen, can't even
Kathleen picks up on it. She's being suspect but she
helped us win this thing if not for her.
Rage bra. She helped us win this thing but
like, okay, I'll go along with it.
Let's just keep going. But then he says, yeah, we loved

(01:04:33):
him too. And 100%.
I'm ready to kill kids. That's when I was like, check,
please, I'm out, they see it. As she helped them win it, but
if Michael's death was actually the Catalyst of the ultimate
Revolution that led to the end of Federer, then technically
Henry. Yeah.
Listen something earlier. Yeah, Henry was the one that was
responsible for them being free but I guess if we're going to go

(01:04:56):
At that metaphor. Like they, he would still stand
trial and he be the Catalyst andhere's the things that you did.
But you don't give an award to the person who martyred the
other person that made everybodyRevolt, right?
You don't do that. It's just nobody gets.
I'm just saying, if Pontius Pilate didn't get an award, it
was Killing Jesus. Think?
I mean, and I keep getting that one wrong.
The Romans don't get a pass right.

(01:05:18):
Okay, well, let's respond to those that.
Are you going to be the camp? Yeah, we're gonna be at the camp
in Spades mmm-hmm. So with that everybody, thank
you for joining us for this episode of our Coverage of the
last of us a fifth episode of its inaugural season which is
nine episodes. By the way, I just double
checked. What was originally going to
happen was they were going to split the first episode into two
and they fell on nine. They just combine the first two
episodes. That's why an IMDb.

(01:05:40):
It's is incorrectly, says, 10. Just want to get that on the
plate. I did clear it up in the blog
and link to an article explaining, everything fellows
farted. Okay?
Also, let's keep going. Anyway, so listen, if you like
what you heard from this episode, in our discussion,
consider rating our podcast irate.
This podcast.com slash Walking Dead.
Five stars and an eggplant is all we need to know that you
love us and tell us what you like.

(01:06:00):
Tell us what you didn't like tell us what we missed.
But remember to tell us after every episode and if you like
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Or patreon.com slash squawking dead.
You don't have to buy us a coffee to show your support.
You don't have to join a membership here for as little as
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(01:06:22):
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So, you know, when things pop upand any cool things that you get
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(01:06:44):
you'll get 30 days to support about content.
And if you do join a membership tear for, as little as a dollar
a month, you'll get Discord access.
You'll get the unedited episode of recordings and a whole lot
more with that everybody. I've been your host David Camion
of this is In by the very relaxed.
Cosmic 09 Rachel Burton and the Very Yanni share digg.
A blazing guy here. Take everybody, thank you for

(01:07:05):
joining us on this episode. Not the only one don't know,
I've been yawning, but like it'slike, it's like an internally on
covering my face. I try to do like miiiions.
Turn out to be like low as far as just a very inside and just
doesn't go anywhere until after.Anyway, take everybody will see.
You have a good night. We love you and we can't wait

(01:07:25):
for the next episode. Sewed, like we might see Tommy
knows, oh no, I hope he doesn't die in The Next Episode.
He's on everybody, I'll see you later.

(01:07:50):
We appreciate you making it to the end of this, very neatly
packaged episode just over an hour.
And as usual This is Our Moment to thank those who support us on
either Kofi or patreon. That's KO.
Dekha five.com squawking dead orpatreon.com slash Walking Dead
and they are starting with the survivors tear, our high is to
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(01:08:13):
episode discussions. We've got a trail Ryan GM on
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Lindy onto our Whispers tear, who just like the survivors
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(01:08:34):
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Twitter for new baby 420 on Instagram.

(01:08:57):
I hope you didn't miss the last interview we released with Chris
12 lung and if you really reallyliked that interview, we have
the entire three interviews thatwe recorded at.
That's my viewing party. It was a Walking Dead series.
An alley viewing part in Covington Georgia.
You definitely don't want to miss the unedited interview
recordings real of all three. The funniest of which was that

(01:09:19):
Chris 12 honor to interview. We basically had to cut 10 whole
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It was actually cancelable material, so check that out on
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And if you join a membership to your, you'll get recordings like
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(01:09:41):
last interview that we recorded at, that's my viewing party.
With William Bell background actor, former member of the
savior's died, a true hero of a hilltopper and he has a lot to
say about that until next time. Remember, we are squawking dead.
And not only that, the last interview that we recorded at,
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Remember, we are squawking dead.

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