The Last Of Us |2x05 "Feel Her Love"

Episode Transcript
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(00:17):
We are squawking dead, a podcastpulverizing programs beyond The
Walking Dead universe. Sometimes we even use.
Sometimes we make you laugh. Most times we go deep.
I'm here with David Cameron. I'm joined by.
Hi, I'm Kazma Montuna. Bridget, you can find me at
youtube.com, slash at Punky Brewster.
That's PUNKYBRUISETER. And Karina?

(00:40):
You can find me on Instagram at CARINAE under Score D and at A
Karina Art on everything else. A resident gaming guru.
Hopefully. Emphatically and provenly, I am
very happy to see first of all, Francisco, because, you know,
listen, you got to go with the regulars first.
But second of all, I was really happy to hear that Neo is the

(01:01):
one he's on here too. Our favorite commenter from when
we were talking about dark winds.
And he had promised that he would come here during one of
our live streams. And I think he's followed
through with it. And I'm glad, glad you're here.
And Speaking of here, if you want this kind of chaos on the
regular when we're talking aboutother shows, you can always head

(01:23):
on over to our Kofi and Patreon pages and just follow us.
It's free. Attending our recording
sessions, studios are free as well.
When you follow, you'll be updated to our schedules, our
logistics, when we're going to record, you'll get notified.
It's a happy day for everybody. You'll be in there in the
studio. Francisco can attest to the even

(01:43):
more chaos. Because right now we're trying
to be on our best behavior because we're live when we're
recording in the studio. There are objectively things
that I just recently told somebody else that I can
literally be cancelled for. OK, 100% Bridget, why are you
making that face? You know it's true.
There are things I've said, oh, we can't say that.
And then I debate. Should I put it in the episode?

(02:05):
Should I not put in the episode?I did put Columbia necktie in
the episode when we're talking about this.
Bottom and call him Bill O'Reilly.
Time comes in, time comes out. We're doing it live.
First we do some housekeeping before we go on to the title of
this episode, starting with Rachel.
We'll first bit of housekeeping is actually Lauren Cohan and

(02:27):
Jeffrey Dean Morgan as part of their promotional tour.
We talked about this a lot in the last few weeks.
Part of the reason why they cameto New York is there's a lot of
things threw the first pitch at Citi Field for a Mets game.
They did a whole bunch of thingswe talked about in the episode
before Last of The Last of Us, and we included some pictures
and videos on Spotify, includingBridget's rally towel, which

(02:47):
he'll probably pull out now. But just because I said it no
and OK. I won't because you said that.
No, I won't. One of those things was their
appearance on Hot Ones Verses. Hot Ones Verses is yes, it's the
hot chicken wing show typically with Sean Evans, but Hot Ones
Verses is basically Lauren Cohanand Jeopardy Morgan face off in

(03:08):
a truth or dare style challenge.I actually got to see it today
and it is precious, you'd think.It's pretty funny.
There's no competition you'd think there would be just
because their characters. No, it is endearing and lovely
and wholesome and I highly encourage everybody watch it.
I'm sure the unedited version ofthat was way longer because you

(03:29):
can tell they just kept going onand on with the questions.
And you can get that at Hot Ones's YouTube channel.
At first We Feast. It's a great channel to follow.
Anyway, Second bit of housekeeping is I think Bridget
you wanted to bring up some sadder news I do have.
Sadder news. Yeah.
I don't, I don't want to bring it up, but I will.
Samuel French, He played Ben in season 6, episode 2 of Fear The

(03:54):
Walking Dead, entitled Welcome to the Club, passed away.
There was a Variety article thatwas released yesterday evening,
published at 5:34 PM. So Me 12/20/25 entitled Samuel
French Killers of the Flower Moon actor dies at 45 written by
Lauren Coats Samuel French, a Texan actor known for his role

(04:16):
as undercover FBI agent CJ Robinson and Killers of the
Flower Moon, died this morning so yesterday morning in Waco, TX
following a years long battle with cancer.
He was 45. Born on January 26th, 1980,
French's family moved to Clifton, TX when he was three.
He graduated from high school there before moving to Austin

(04:36):
and eventually Dallas, landing early acting credits on series
like Texas Rising and Fear The Walking Dead as Been, as well as
film roles like Pegasus, Pony with a Broken Wing, The Pro Bono
Watchman and a role on the 2024 crime thriller Blood Dried
Hands. French's final performance will
be as Detective Bernard Crook inthe crime drama slash thriller

(04:59):
Towpath, written and directed byPaul Sinacore.
Samuel was a dear friend and an incredible actor.
Sinacore said in a statement posted to Instagram.
Together we were on an extraordinary journey, giving
everything we had to realize a shared creative vision.
Topath wouldn't exist without him, and the incredible
intensity he brought to the roleof Detective Bernard Crook set

(05:20):
the tone for the entire film. Samuel carried a fire for acting
that burned in every frame, unfiltered, fearless and alive.
He gave himself completely to the work and it showed.
I am deeply saddened by his lossand only wish he could have seen
the final cut. He was one-of-a-kind and he will
remain in our hearts forever. My heart goes out to his family
and especially to his daughter. He loved her deeply and spoke of

(05:42):
her often with pride and tenderness.
Rest in peace. Yeah, rest in peace.
If you remember the episode on Fear of The Walking Dead, this
was the one with Victor going into the molasses factory and
finding out it was just a test from Jenny.
And there's that scene with Alexa Nicensen, AKA Charlie in
the episode where she almost gets pulled by the hair and she
falls into the Walker pit and they get them in the end and the

(06:04):
stabbing in the knee. Sanjay, if you remember, and
this is how we I literally recently brought this up about
the five senses of walkers versus the five senses of humans
and which one's stronger in the scent of blood.
We find out from that episode isthe strongest sense, which is
the one you lose when you get older first.
Yeah, that's some tragic news though.
But moving along, there's another thing that you'd found

(06:26):
Bridget. But before I continue, I don't
know if you've noticed. For those of you on the audio
podcast, you will not be able tosee this unless you are on
Spotify. But I am wearing the last of
Squawks T-shirt currently on air.
Hello. It is not.
The redesign is just slight tweak to the design.
If you were in the Discord, you got to see the difference
between it. If you are watching the Squawks

(06:46):
is a little higher in the OF wrong nipple and the of is a
little higher to satisfy the. Squawks.
What's up with your nipples? Why are you staring at my
nipples, Bridget? Also enjoy.
Enjoy the view. Shall I lift this high?
No. Stop.
You're weirding me out, man. I.
Forgot I'm we're not we're not in a recording studio where I

(07:09):
can do things like this. Hey, thanks, Tim.
Thanks for the shirt compliment.And if you want your own shirt,
it's the last of squawks, head on over to our website,
squawkingdead.com. Click the main menu on the top
left and choose buy a merch. You can also if you're on
YouTube, there is a link to our merch store in the description

(07:29):
and you get your own last of squawks.
Why don't you if before HBO and Naughty Dog takes it down,
that's. True cease and desist, Sir.
It's not the first time it's happened.
Francisco says just to start, here we go.
Print incoming. Francisco with your list.
I just want to say this episode is proof that HBO Craig Mason

(07:52):
and writing Ellie to not much like the video games, not
similar to her in the video games when Dina isn't with her
and when she isn't you see more of game Ellie.
The whole problem this season has been how they have written
Dina to be more like Ellie instead of backwards.
I like that too though. So the last 10 minutes were what
people who really big fan of thegames wanted out of Ellie after

(08:16):
Joel was killed. Not sure why they wrote it to be
goofy or to say idiotic lines. She should be cold like the
games. I like the two faced Ness.
I will disagree with you there. I will disagree.
We'll get into why. We'll get into.
Why that, though? We'll dig into that.
It's a good. Thing to bring up, Neo said it
might tie in with the next episode being flashbacks.
Francesco said let's go deep, baby David and Cameo Cat for

(08:41):
this. This is oh, boy, in studio,
there's no swearing jar. Neo said that the towel is cool.
Thank you. It is.
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for not
allowing Dave to talk about it in the way that he does.
He made a choice, but it just seems so you couldn't.
You just decided because I said you were going to, that you
weren't going to. Yeah, you can't tell me what to.
Positional defiance disorder. I don't have that.

(09:02):
I don't have it. I don't have it.
I thought because I said it, youwould say, of course I have it.
No, I never thought I would see Negan and Maggie eating spicy
wings together. Sounds diabolical.
Lauren isn't good at hot ones. She eats the wings before even
answering the questions. A. 100% that happened once for

(09:24):
one of the questions, like oh I ate it before I decided to
answer the question. Smart move.
It was a tasty one, actually. Tim said love the shirt and then
Negan says what's up with your nipples?
We are live, Bridget. I don't know if you remember.
That should be on a shirt. 51st dates, That's what it's from.
It's. One of Rob Schneider's kids,

(09:45):
Adam Sandler, gets hit in the head with a golf ball and he's
laying down and the kid goes, what's up with your nipples?
That's what I was trying to replicate.
Fairpoint. I haven't seen that since it
came out in theaters. I think it's.
A It's a good movie I enjoy. It which was had to have been
about 20 years ago. Oh yeah, it's yeah, It came out
a long time ago. I saw it in theaters every now

(10:06):
and I get bumped myself out. Weird.
Well, when they keep talking about 28 years later and how
that's coming out soon. Yeah, I saw the first one in
theaters. Oh.
Man, me too. To be fair, you were smaller.
You were I. Was underage.
I should not have been allowed in the theater.
I was 13 or NO15I was 15. As always, what we like to do in

(10:30):
the beginning and this will be agreat jumping off point for this
episode. Sometimes they're stinkers, OK,
but we like to start off with tying the title of the episode
to what this episode ended up being.
And how does the title of this episode, Rachel, correlate with
this episode? There's the obvious thing, we
saw it, I don't know in the episode.
You tell me. Yes, we did, David.

(10:52):
I have no idea what you're talking about.
The mural. Written over type.
Of one mural. Yeah.
I don't know anything until you tell me what it is.
Oh. This.
Guy. This.
Guy of a woman painted on the side of a building hovering over
a plethora of dead scar bodies and it said feel her love my.

(11:14):
Favorite part is right below that it says feel this, be I
know I love. That I was like.
It was kind of funny. Well done.
Well done. I have to.
Give people credit, it was very legible graffiti.
It was. It's almost as if a set artist
painted that. It was, you know.
It's almost. As if almost, almost.

(11:34):
Thank you, Rachel, for the obvious, for the.
Obvious thing what isn't? Obvious.
I wonder if you ask. Me.
Most of it is kind of obvious. I don't know if there's a
unobvious part of this title. There's the obvious love between
Ellie and Dina. They say it like she finally
says it for the. First time very.

(11:55):
Obvious, I don't know how to phrase it quite right.
Well, that and Joel's not around, so Joel can't feel
Ellie's love, but she is most definitely showing how much she
loves and Mrs. Joel this episode, I'm surprised for our
dead city coverage, you got quite emotional when we were
talking about Victor, but I'm more surprised you didn't get

(12:16):
emotional over Ellie. And I realized that was an
episode that I missed. But like, watching the episode,
I was like, oh. Were you talking?
About the dead city One or the Last of Us?
Last. No, the last.
Of us when she's singing Take onme, yeah.
She's talking about episode 4, yeah.
I didn't get emotional about that.
I thought it was really super sweet.

(12:38):
I was smiling. I will admit that I didn't
really say that when we were talking about it.
I was smiling throughout that. I was like, this is so
wholesome. This is so great.
I really enjoyed that there was more.
Of a a choke up moment this episode, right when she tried to
sing again and couldn't. You got the one line out and
like felt the weight of it and couldn't even continue.

(12:59):
Yeah. Well, we'll 0 in on that, but I
really want to go back to what you just said.
No, no, no. There's more to say about that.
It's in relation to the music itself.
Yeah, but we. Could just leave it there.
Are you going to? Oh, maybe she'll cry.
She's the captain now. No, I.
Don't cry, I'm a robot. One robot to another.
Liar. You got the patch like I did

(13:21):
the. Emotional Patch so annoying
uninstalling. They tried to fix it, but still,
I mean, it's uninstallable. I like what you said about Ellie
because that's exactly what I was going to bring up.
Ellie wanting Joel to feel her love and knowing that in many
ways that's not going to happen.He's not here anymore to feel
her love. If she invokes their love

(13:42):
language, which is violence, maybe she'll she'll hear him
somewhere out there somehow. Because it goes back to what
Tommy and GAIL, that conversation that they had in
the third episode. How Ellie, is she violent by
nature? She violent because she was
quote, UN quote brought up by Joel.
And I think that pairs very wellto that last scene and how this

(14:05):
is her expression of love for Joel is being able to do this.
There is more to that. I'm not leaving it there.
But when we get to that part, we'll go deeper into this
because that's second to last scene that actually got me
emotional in a different way. Oh, it's not about that at all.
It was never about that. I literally was saying that my
inside head, inside voice. So anybody else for Feel Her

(14:29):
love? Well, and I think there's a
comment by Francisco about feel her love Francisco.
I want to say I'm, I'm not even going to read the first part of
this. I just want to say you never
have to apologize. It's OK.
That's what I promise you. You never.
Do Ellie in this episode in those last 10 minutes was better
than we have seen from her this season.
I did see a lot of talk online about how Bella Ramsey is acting

(14:50):
in the last 10 minutes was just really phenomenal.
And people have stated like, whyaren't we getting this out of
the other episodes? But we'll come back to it later.
It's it's a really cool part of the writing actually on this
that I'm excited about. Eric Burt says most of 28 Days
Later is just. It just looks like a 90s music
video, which is. Fair.
It's the red. It's the red lens.

(15:12):
That's what it is. It's like new metal.
You know what it means. We.
Were really we were. Really into it.
Francisco says feel her love. It was obviously Ellie shutting
that ish down on Nora. That was a gorgeous version of
the song. And then Neo said yeah to her
take on me. Got me a little too.
I was surprised Bella had a goodvoice.
I can definitely hear her accentin her singing voice.

(15:33):
Oh, and. This episode especially, yeah.
I love it. And then Francisco says I'm
going to be a dad. That's a line I want to delete
from my head. Bridget.
I loved it. I thought it was funny, but I
get I get your you don't want that level of like comedic
relief in the moment. I understand, I thought.
It was a kid. Over the game version which was

(15:53):
calling to that burden yeah justangry.
This is why I. Think it's really important to
express are different vantage points because some of us
haven't played the game. Some of us heard about beats
from the game and some of us have played It's whatever.
And so I I think it's important to get the input from people who
have played or not play the gameso that you can get, Oh, this is
how I should have felt about thescene.

(16:14):
Case in point, we we talked about a scene in dead City where
I got very, very emotional that you guys couldn't understand
until I explained it. And then you were like, I wish.
I hope I when I watch it again, I can see what you saw.
And that's basically what we tryto angle towards on the show is
to give you our reactions and thoughts and on different scenes
and all our different takes on it.

(16:34):
And maybe you attach yourself toone, but saw that.
Oh, I didn't consider that for that idea or that idea or
feeling towards that scene. And maybe I could have seen it
that way. And oh, and I see what you're
talking about now. But hey, Rob Matthews again,
sorry, catch you up. Bridget.
Any other feel her loves sounds really weird when you say that
loud. I hate that.
You say it like that. I do have one.

(16:54):
It's very brief. This episode was aired on
Mother's Day. Oh, yeah.
And there are two little things that are brought up during this
that are kind of nods to that one.
There is a little Easter eggy Happy Mother's Day sign when
they're in the warehouse building, whatever that is.
It pans cubicles, almost a line of like, desks.

(17:18):
And there's a little card that'shung up that says Happy Mother's
Day. Someone caught that online and
and posted it on Yeah I. Missed it entirely or?
Instagram or something. So I loved that, but also
there's aired on Mother's Day and we find out in the flashback
scene that the best of the Wolf troops is sealed in on B2 and B1

(17:42):
when they seal those in the basement levels due to the
spores, which surprised we thought we were not getting
spores ever. A psych Maybe they're going.
To do it in a different way and.Here we are.
I cannot remember his name, but that is the woman who is telling
the story to Hannah Hannahan. Leon Hannahan Hannahan.

(18:03):
Oh, Shaughnessy. Andrew Han hears this story from
a woman that is Leon's mother. Her name?
Is Sergeant Elise Park. So her love towards her son, she
loved the community more 'cause she sacrificed her son
essentially for the safety of others which is or trusted.

(18:24):
Him, I would say, trusted him enough because he's the one who
told her to do that. And she, yeah, did it regardless
of you know what she would have.Heard.
Yes. So it's a little mother's.
Day it's a little. Mother's Day thing, but it's
also it was also feel her love, but also feel her love is the
title and it happens to air on Mother's Day just to go.
Back because it's a small nuggetto the office building.

(18:46):
The name of the on the outside is called Membronics.
I looked it up and I think it's an old website but apparently I
don't know if this is made for the show, this website or the
game. Sorry.
Probably more for the game. It's a website
thatsmembronics.wordpress.com sothey obviously didn't buy the
domain or they lost it. What it's supposed to have been

(19:06):
because it has the same logos and typeface and everything.
It's supposed to be a graphene based app that works with your
smartphone that can help you detect asthma flare ups rather
than going to the hospital. And I think that's funny because
if we're talking about the episode with the spores, talking
about airborne, the labor, breathing and everything.
Yeah, like I said, the logo on the website and the logo on the

(19:29):
show, and you get to see a little bit closer when they're
next to the look like carpet, like blue carpet.
But when they're ducking behind,they see the stalkers.
You get to see the logo on these.
It's not carpet, it's like a canister of some kind, but you
get to see the logo up front. Like what is this?
Why did I find a website with this thing?
And maybe it is made for the game, I don't know.
But I thought it was a cool little nugget playing.
Through the game you can see to me it's just background

(19:51):
information and I never thought to look into it because I just
assumed oh this looks like a thing they made-up for this
game. I never would have thought to
look for an actual website and see if they had any Easter eggs.
I should add the website is verypart down.
Obviously you flip through the only 5 pages.
There is a contact page, there'sa main page explaining what the

(20:13):
technology is about. You go to The Who we are and
they list a couple of random names and who what they do.
They're supposed to be a YouTubevideo.
That YouTube video is no longer available, which leads me to
believe maybe at one point therewas an Easter egg from the
games. Possibly there you.
Go and it's it's no longer thereanymore.
I wonder why though, it would have been great for like hits,

(20:34):
you know, for for views and lights and stuff like that.
For there how is. It spelled Dave ME.
MB RONICSA graphene based devicethat pairs with your smartphone
to detect asthma. Anyway, let me read what Rob
Matthews is saying because hey Matthews, I do have to say it
does break my heart to see the amount of hate comments Bella

(20:55):
Ramsey gets as a father is horrible.
She's a great addition to the team.
And I think to kind of pair alsoto what Francisco says about
Bella. I do like that she does flip
back and forth between these twopersonalities.
And now we kind of make sense when you get to the end of the
episode and a lot of what we're seeing now from the Ellie you
like, I think brings me back to Game of Thrones and her

(21:18):
character there. There's a little bit of
intensity to it and that something that she's always been
really, really good at is how intense she can be even at a
very, very young age. Let me read Francisco's comment.
The show wants to be too pacify how Ellie reacted to Dina
because they probably want the characters to be more likeable
or goofy or corny. I don't think it's better.
I think it's deliberate and I think a lot of that you can see

(21:38):
reflected in the songs that playin this episode, both by Pearl
Jam, one Ellie is about to play and one that's at the end of
this episode. The first one that she is about
to play is Future Days in the theater, named after the
episode, obviously, but it's theactual song that she's about to
play. And at the end, just to mention
it now that we can dig deeper into that later because it will
tie into a scene is present tense, Future Days present

(22:01):
tense. They both have a similar
message, but we can get into that a little bit later.
I'm not dwelling on the past, essentially.
Everybody. So I think it's good to bring
that up because there is a future for Ellie if she's just
willing to grasp it, if she's just willing to let go of the
past. But again, let's let's go back
into other little things of the episode because I think after

(22:22):
that little flashback is a little another little nugget for
all the talk about not seeing sick habit in the rack of vinyl
you got to see in the marquee when we get back to Seattle Day
2. Sick.
Ha, this is Bridget. We don't know, Dave.
It might be sick. They might.
Be from Guangzhou, China. We don't know Dave, we don't
know. But I wanted to say when it

(22:45):
first came on, I'd like immediately paused and then
because you see it first in likea puddle reflection, I was like,
oh God, this is a nugget. They're not going to show this
on the screen. So I better take into my image
program, flip it upside down so I could see it right side up,
then flip it horizontally seconds later.
Not even you showed a. Full marquee.
Doing too much. Why?

(23:05):
Don't you do that. I proceeded to do the same
thing. Not the same thing, but like,
let's learn our lessons. Like maybe before you start
writing your notes, you just wait a little longer.
Then you can go back and pause and write.
We were going to say in case they do the thing later on.
I'm learning guys. It's been 7 plus years since we
started squawking dead. Techniques 1st.
Of all, I will admit I did not notice that it was sick habit

(23:28):
because I what I did notice whatis that it was not what it was
on the marquee in the game, which is a tragedy play called
Cassandra. And I'm not sure if that's a
real play or not. Again, I didn't research any of
this. So all I did was notice.
Oh, that's not, it's not Cassandra.
And I just totally left my brainthat that is sick habit on

(23:48):
there. And it should have been
something that registered, but Ijust missed it entirely.
And they're living in sick Habitville, sick Habitville sick
ha, I mean, sorry Bridget, sick ha.
Another tiny little nugget is like, again, we love dates, we
love maps. September 5th.
So it's kind of like in line with when the fall must have
happened for them. Someone had thought that maybe

(24:12):
the choice of the name, because I don't think it's an actual
play, may have been a teaser about the next Uncharted game
because you were going to play as Nate's daughter, Cassie.
Oh, yeah. So that's where people thought
maybe that was from. Like, maybe that was the why.
That was the choice, The reason?Why is not just because Naughty

(24:32):
Dog makes both of these games, but because they've been.
They have in game Easter eggs that suggest that they exist in
the same world. Oh.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, this is like.
Way back when Season 1 came about, we're like, does it exist
in the same universe? And I guess it's supposed.
To well, I mean, yes, no, maybe so you can find Uncharted and

(24:52):
Jack and Dexter games in the game world because you know,
there's PS threes everywhere. Of course, they're going to show
all that and you can find littleobjects, like you can find
Nathan Drake's sick Harvest Magnus or whatever ring that he
wears around his neck. You can find it in a safety
deposit box on day one when you're exploring with Dina.

(25:13):
So it's just an Easter egg. It doesn't lead to anything
else? It doesn't.
Mean anything else, It's just cool.
Yeah, I think people are using it as a connection and I think
also in yeah, calm. Down, Dave I.
Forget which Uncharted game it is, but there's a a scene in a
bar where that you're like brawling and there's a newspaper
in the bar that suggests some kind of fungal outbreak that's

(25:36):
happening. And so they're referencing The
Last of Us as well. So, you know, they, they all
have, I think they just like to add those Easter eggs in there.
I don't know that it's necessarily means that they're
all in the same universe, because how sad would that be
for the Uncharted the world? And it just devolves.
Into the last block, the bright.Future they have no more game

(25:59):
for Cassie, we just. Can't get off the topic of of
Greek mythology this week, as itturns out as a podcast, but the
Cassandra metaphor is a reference to a great tragedy
labeled the Cassandra Syndrome. Complex phenomenon, predicament,
etcetera relates to a person whose valid warnings or concerns
are disbelieved by others. The term originates in Greek

(26:21):
mythology. Cassandra was a daughter of
Priam, the king of Troy. Struck by her beauty, Apollo
provided her with the gift of prophecy, either on the
condition that she agreed to accept his romantic advances or
without prior agreement from Cassandra, depending on the
source. When Cassandra refuses Apollo's
romantic advances, he placed a curse on her, ensuring that
nobody would believe her prophetic warnings.

(26:43):
Cassandra was left with the knowledge of future events, but
could neither alter these eventsnor convince others of the
validity of her predictions. I wonder.
If that has something to do withthe way Ellie moves through her
life, because even if she told people she was immune, most
people would not believe her. Her immunity gives her no power
to save anyone or help anyone inany way.

(27:06):
Considering Joel has removed theone way that that could happen,
yeah. So I wonder if that maybe is
drawing a parallel there. I.
Wholeheartedly agree. I think that's an exact no.
Dave didn't know it was going toget this guy.
No, I did not look at Korea going deep.
I'm out of a job. My baby, she's all grown up.

(27:28):
She said it all without. Wasting 2 minutes of our time.
She's like 30 seconds. That's the take.
Not quite Rachel. Not quite Dave.
You know The dove's done. You know little better.
Call Sol reference. Is this the real reason you
don't want to do a game one withme?
You're threatened by my deep tanks.
Threatened by. You.

(27:50):
Threatened by your beauty and your intellectual prowess, I'm.
Not confirmed or denied these accusations Leveled at my feet
Bridget, which happens to have athlete's foot fungal outbreak.
I don't know you're. A fungal outbreak?
I like a like a little call back.
Stay away. From Substrate, Dave.

(28:12):
No substrate for you anyway. Don't use accents, Dave, Keep
forgetting. Rob, are you from the Gold
Coast? I'm just curious because I just,
I think that's the, the eastern most part of Australia.
Is it? I've been there, I've been
there. So I was like, oh, I love that
city, but I'm taking a shot heresometimes.
A good guess is Francisco. Says at Rob Matthews.
I think a lot of them generally dislike her casting and how she

(28:33):
doesn't look like her, which you're not going to find it.
It's like casting Sweeney to be Kratos.
It's strange, but she's not a bad actress.
Her scripts for Ellie are just how they are and the gamers
probably don't like it. Rob says it's chaotic.
I've got two daughters and I would be very upset to see if
they were being bullied online for a role.
I think Bella is doing great. That's all she can do.

(28:55):
I'm glad she has a great supportsystem behind her.
As an actor myself, I would wantPedro Pascal or Isabella to
write something in regards to the bullying, but we might not
get that. And then he says I'm in
Melbourne. OK, I've been there too.
Now I have to sync my times is 14 hours ahead.
Gotcha, Vic. You didn't see it, but right
behind him a new clock appeared,set to your time zone.

(29:19):
It's a broken clock. It's right twice a day.
It's literally it's not running,but it's fine.
I sincerely love Francisco because he's not afraid to make
the take, but be really respectful about it.
And I will say he's not wrong. I get that perspective.
I haven't played the games, but I I've seen images of the game.
I know she does he she doesn't look anything like Ellie at all.

(29:41):
So I get that to capitulate to Rob's sentiments, though it is
chaotic. And I I would say there is a
danger in lumping in the Francisco's who I think is just
completely rational, may not have a way with words or at
least the English language, but he does do his best.
And I think mixing people like Francisco in with some people.

(30:02):
And listen, I'm on Facebook. I see the means in there.
No, Francisco's not cruel. Like you're not cruel about it.
You just have an opinion. It's OK.
He's saying. Like this is what other people
feel about it. They probably don't like like
it. I get that there are a lot of
people were being extremely vocal about it, but we've we've
talked about this every episode.I was impressed with her acting

(30:22):
this episode. I thought it was really
phenomenal. I thought she did a great job,
but part of the. Flashback, you get the scene
with what is Wong Baker faces. And then I realized, oh, it's
the chart with the pain thresholds for children.
It's that little sign that you see right when you.
Yeah, yeah. So it's called the Wong Baker
faces pain rating scale. It's primarily for children.
So again, like a little happy Mother's Day ish thing going on

(30:44):
here and the two with circled hurts a little bit.
I thought that was kind of cute.But like in a happy, miserable.
Mother's Day everyone, it's likeso sad there.
Is a couple of things because wehad talked to big game or I had
because I'm the one who takes the hook shots now I'm not off
the Hanrahan being the prophet of the scars just yet but it is

(31:08):
clear from that flashback that she is in charge not the leader,
but in charge because had Sergeant Lee Swong been in
trouble, Isaac would have been here to do it himself.
Is what Elise says, which implies and maybe you can agree
or disagree that Isaac is the man of this outfit it.
Seems so and he is in the game. He's the leader of the WLS.

(31:31):
So I don't know how far back a flashback this is because when
Ellie comes across those bodies,you can see the guy's name tag
and it's her son. And he's not overly decomposed.
I mean, he is covered over in infungus.
And I don't know how fast Cordyceps grows, but I don't
know that it was like 10 years or anything, you know what I

(31:54):
mean? I, I feel like it was maybe
within a few months that this might have occurred because
they're actively removing supplies from the hospital.
That's why Nora's there and theywere doing that to begin with.
They were clearing the floors. So they just gave up clearing
the basement floors and just started removing things from the

(32:14):
upper floors. So I don't know how far back a
flashback. This really is what I'm saying.
It's hard. I think the only reason this is
very dumb reasoning and again, it's not for nothing.
The idea that when that scene happens is during the day as
opposed to, and you're right, wedon't know when that happens,
but it gives you the idea, OK, if they're going at night and
they're going to be there at night during the day, you're

(32:35):
thinking, OK, this could be yourmind kind of goes to the place
where, OK, it's probably furtherback.
That's another nugget because one of the things was they
already had a conflict with the Seraphytes.
The truce was broken. And this is the whole reason why
she's afraid of Isaac punishing her because you don't kill one
of your own until you find out the facts and you realize
there's nothing to be helped. I think there's a concern that

(32:57):
he's very kind of like the Seraphytes.
There is a bit of retribution inthat punishments are really
extreme. So you see that with the
Seraphytes when they're gutting that one fella.
But second, the implication withIsaac Dixon is that we don't
kill our own. We're not like Federer like that
kind of mentality probably. But there is a mirror between
WLF and the Seraphytes in that respect, because the punishments

(33:18):
are harsh. It's you've got to go, you're
done. So I like that.
I like the Seraphytes existed now doesn't definitely means
that she's not the leader. She's in her full regalia.
And I say I only mentioned this because in going through the
dialogue, when Hanrahan comes in, it feels like she's in
charge. She comes in and you're like,
damn this woman, I want to go out on a date with her.

(33:39):
I felt very attractive. Now it's in that respect I
pulled back and that I didn't know what to say.
He keeps talking about it though.
I can't. See anything other than Naomi
from Waiting Which? Stream on Max, that account
actually compared them side by side from the pre from the prior
episode when you first meet her.Her character in Waiting is

(34:00):
reacting to her character and The Last of Us.
They've done these clever advertisement mashups between
the actors and their various shows.
Oh. That's cute.
Yeah, So she's like looking at aTV and waiting.
I think it's waiting. I'm not sure.
And then she's seeing Han Rehan.Brian Reynolds.
And got the Francis daily. I don't.
Think it's from that, but it's Iknow it's from a show, but she's

(34:21):
watching it on the TV and she's seeing Han her hand.
She's reacting to that characteron the show and it's and they've
been doing this. Pedro Pascal?
Bella Ramsey. I haven't.
Seen any of these? That sounds hilarious.
They've. Been doing this for months.
I want to find out more about the person that does their
social media. Like where do you get these
ideas? Great.
No as. Soon as I saw her on screen I
thought she was going to start cussing Isaac out.

(34:43):
Who's? That oh, his voice, you know
that wasn't. Anyone.
Who was that? Where did this spirit?
Just come from I. Don't know.
How to be women? I am what?
I am. Have you seen?
What it waiting? I'm just making fun of
everybody, I guess. Putting on a costume my.

(35:03):
Culture is not your costume all.Right.
That's really all I wanted to say.
Just the little logistics of like where we are with our
theories, where we are in time, I don't know.
We don't, we're not clear, but Ithink we've established where
these people are and the when isis really the key because there
was no tag on where they were intime when they went to that.

(35:25):
I don't know if it's obvious, but obvious flashback.
Semi I couldn't tell if it was aflashback or not.
So that's what makes me believe that it's not too far back.
Like days, weeks, a month maybe.I don't think it was years I
didn't. Think it was a flashback.
Oh, OK. Well, it would behoove us to
actually maybe go back to the graffiti and let's just ask the
question. Does it look like Hanrahan?

(35:47):
Yes, okay. Doesn't.
Mean, you know why? Because I want to be right.
So I'm blind or anything else? I'm right blind.
The only thing that. Makes me question it is Hanrahan
calls them scars, so that implies the existence of them
already marking their faces, which is something that they do
in game at least to humble themselves or make themselves

(36:09):
imperfect in her eyes talking about the prophet.
So I don't know if that changed at some point, if Hanrahan is
the prophet or if that means that she's not the prophet and
the prophet is already there. Because the the truth I think is
broken. I don't know if it's broken
before or after the prophet dies.
I think it's after I. Would say after if I would think

(36:30):
it's. After.
I don't know. I know how the truce gets broken
in the game, but it it doesn't Ithink it's after the prophet
mortified. Because I can easily see a world
in which Hanahan pulls a Isaac Dixon and she, yeah, pulls out.
She she throws a bunch of grenades into a WLF truck and
she joins the Seraphytes the one.
Scar Seraphyte mentions that sorry, she's pulling at.

(36:53):
Me like, oh, it's derogatory. Wait.
Wait, that's the derogatory? It's short racism.
Ray. Rae.
CIST the one that. He's interrogating mentions that
wolves join them all the time, so it's possible that Hanrahan
joins them. Great.
Oh, that's such a great Chekovs gun.
I was about to say Kafka gun, but could be it's easy to say

(37:16):
the. Wrong thing.
I was just wondering what if theprophet already exists in their
lore and Han her hand just comesto them in a way that was
prophesied to them that that person would appear in this way
and so then they believe that she's the reincarnation of the
prophet or whatever I mean. That's possible because the way
they describe the prophet and the way she speaks to people, I

(37:39):
could see her hand being very influential in that way.
She's described as very like unflappable.
She doesn't get emotional. They're keeping her prisoner at
one point to keep the peace, basically keeping her away from
her people but not hurting her. And she's completely unfazed by
this. She just continues to speak her
words of wisdom and converse a few wolves in the process during

(38:04):
her incarceration. This is from the game in the.
Game, yes, and again, the prophet is prophet dead?
Yeah, you might be thinking. Hanahan I'm like putting the.
Two of them together is a strongpossibility, because Hanahan
seems like the kind of characterthat could pull off such a
thing. Because I don't I haven't seen

(38:24):
her show any emotion. She's very like Stern and in
charge through the whole thing, so very possibly she is still a
prophet, just they're just doingit in a different way as they've
changed so many things in this series from the game, but also
haven't changed anything, which is amazing to me that they've
managed to do that. Oh yeah.

(38:44):
Like a loop back around to beats.
But just to maybe close this out, you know, we all know
scripture. I think we're all scripture
people of some book or another. Yeah, they kind of just come
along and Judaism, we have multiple prophets.
They're generational and kind oflike what we're talking about
Cassandra, actually, it's a lot like that.
I mean, it's not that they people don't hear them.
They make their presence known enough for people to be able to

(39:05):
listen to them. They're for some reason they've
got this spooky aura. And I think that could happen
here. If it is Hanrahan, they just
something about her. And I don't know, like I said
before, I'm just like 75% more attracted after that scene to
Andrahan. So just saying, just saying.
So she could be the I think that's proof, actually just
proof that Dave's attracted. I'm going to.

(39:25):
Interrupt whatever this is and go to the comments because Rob
is saying thank you all for the stream.
I hope to stay longer next time.I really love hearing your
opinions. You all make me laugh even when
I need it most. I wish you all a lovely evening,
what a pleasant thing to read. Hi, Rob.
Thank you for being here. It's my.
Every desire, every desire to make people laugh.

(39:47):
Especially after that one reviewwhere they said they it's a
giggle fest. They laugh too much.
They laugh too much. Thank you.
Blue CAT426. For the rest of my life.
I remember everything. Rachel Francisco.
Said no, I'm a chill guy. This was in reference to like,
us talking about him being representative of the gaming

(40:08):
community in some way. Ship report.
Also funny, which is apparent, Ithink.
And I had commented because I didn't want to miss this
comment, to reassure him, to sayit's apparent.
But we appreciate you. I'll go as far as to say we love
you, Francisco. Rob says just being involved
with the show and meeting the actors, they're also down to
earth, but everyone struggles with something.

(40:30):
Unfortunately. It speaks volumes that Bella
deactivated her Instagram, whichis just really sad.
I hope it makes it gives her a more healthier outlook on life
because it's so much more full. Yeah.
Exactly like what? You've so much more going for
you than these absolute trolls just saying horrible things to
you on the Internet. Well, even just.
Social media in general. Well, yeah, obviously comparison

(40:52):
is the thief of joy, as we oftenstate on this podcast.
I love. That we haven't enough,
apparently. Seems taken aback by it, but
I've definitely said it before. Princess Guy says it makes.
Me understand more why comic fans which I have seen them just
like TV Negan in reference to The Walking Dead comics because
he also doesn't look like JDM. He does his best with the

(41:15):
charisma jokes, but there's a big gap.
And I will say, having read the comics, it's very clear who JDM
is supposed to be. Much like with the Governor
looked like Danny Trejo, Negan is supposed to look like Henry
Rollins. So just a short bulky mad guy
and. He's really got a creamy

(41:37):
interior, AKA Henry Rollins. Any good comedian by the way
dropping. That from left to right.
So that's why Negan's character did.
As someone who read the comics and and Rachel can chime in on
this too because she also read them, It didn't matter much to
me. It was more about the delivery
that I cared about. I wanted the delivery to be the
right way and I think the JDM does a great job with it and

(41:59):
always has. And so I wasn't really worried
about the fact that he wasn't like this Henry Rollins looking
guy. He's way taller than he was
originally supposed to be in thecomics, but I that makes him
more intimidating to me I think.The fact that he's older and far
more attractive and charismatic is the point.
There's a bit of, not going to say softness to it, but

(42:21):
approachability to it. He's not scary, but on the other
hand, it's what he does that makes him scary, what he's
willing to do. Yeah, so I.
Think that was what they were going for, yeah.
Francisca's as veteran Sarah fights.
It's like seeing the Saviors versus the Whisperers.
Some twisted way, I guess I am making fun of everybody, quote
UN quote. David Cold cameo.
That's right. It's all in good fun, Francisco.

(42:43):
Thinks that it's probably a memory or memories flashback and
then asks Karina are you in the matrix?
Because I can see your digital self because our live stream has
some bleed through tonight. And I will say Karina, looks
like you're in the Take on Me music video.
Honestly, it did, did, did. So it's just progressively.
Getting darker, it's crazy. Karina looks perfectly fine to

(43:05):
me. No, but you're not not here in.
The on the YouTube there's bleedthrough.
Yeah, I'm. Keying out the black so as as
her side gets darker in. My.
Yeah. It wasn't like that before, but
I think, I think your room is getting darker or something, so
it's starting to. Yeah, because the sun is
setting. Yeah, there you go.
Look at my mic. Look at that.

(43:26):
See and. Then and then Rob said thanks to
all of us, which was very, very sweet and appreciate it, buddy,
Francisca says. I love you guys too.
Maybe one day we can hang out where you guys hang out at cons
and I would absolutely love that.
I love meeting people in person.It's very cool.
We talked about a. Lot in our discord I.
Think Henry Rollins wasn't cast for one reason, acting resume.

(43:46):
But Negan is not that tall either.
He's just. He was.
Asked was he asked? Yeah, he was.
Asked. I didn't.
Know that actually he turned it.Down.
Yeah, for sure. I feel like he was too old for
it. This is.
That point, yeah, I guess so. But I think he turned it down
for sure. And I think it was it was to
their advantage, I think in the end, because JDM carries Negan

(44:09):
in the way that would have been better for the show, what we
talked about now. Was it your bedtime, Rachel?
Yeah. No, no.
She was moving the clock. Struck. 8.
The bell tails for Rachel one. Final thought I'll I'll give you
1 nugget. OK, Good, good, good.
No. No, I like.
It I like it, it's so not. It's so not worth it.
Poor Josh Peck. I see.

(44:31):
I forget that you watch episode 4 and five, so I'm sure you have
a ton to say. Yeah, but some of it is
applicable to to last episode. I got it.
I said I told you it was. This, this this and this was
episode 5. I know, but.
We keep going here and then there and then this and then
upside down and this way and that way and Walking Dead and
then back and then I. Did bring up the grenade in the

(44:52):
truck, so I did screw the pooch probably there.
OK. Can I?
You guys love you good. Night.
Bye. Good night.
Thanks. For joining us, Neil's the one
said goodbye. Good night, Rachel.
Yay. Thanks, Neil.
He was 1. Neil's the man.
Now that she's gone, let's play.Let's do our thing.
We don't need that. 1. Rough.

(45:13):
I wanted to speak on the difference between Ellie as we
see her in the last minutes of this episode compared.
To the last few episodes compared.
To the last couple of episodes, I'm going to start with just one
word, which is sociopath. The reason I want to say that is
because this is compartmentalization at its
finest. Grief is a weird thing.
Anyone who's been through real grief knows how weird it can be.

(45:36):
I mean, I'm going through it right now with some stuff that's
happened in my life. I talked very openly about it on
my own channel. I just recently had my third
miscarriage and I'm here, I'm laughing, I'm joking, I'm like
cracking jokes, right? And I like seem fine a lot of
the time until all the sudden I'm just completely not.
Obviously I don't. I'm not seeking vengeance

(45:56):
against anyone. There's no one to.
Seek about that, but then thought better of it.
But for instance, Sunday was a really tough day for me.
It was really hard. I didn't want to see anyone.
I didn't want to talk to anybody.
Like we talked about going to our church, which because we
have like a very supportive church family.
And I was like, I told my husband, I said, I feel bad
saying this because I love the people that we go to church

(46:16):
with. I love them.
They're my friends. I see them regularly throughout
the week. We work together, we we do
things in our free time together.
I just felt like they knew what had happened to me and it was
like people were going to feel bad for me and I didn't want
that. I've.
Experienced a similar thing, notin any capacity the way that you
have, but being in the midst of grieving something very deeply

(46:38):
and just wanting to be in a space where you don't have to be
that person that every, everybody looks at like, oh,
poor Karina, poor Bridget. You know what I mean?
Like, you just don't want to be that person for one day.
Yeah. Making light of the situation
often times is a really big coping mechanism for people
going through grief because it helps you to process it.

(46:59):
Because you can tell yourself like, I'm still a normal person
because there's two sides to this coin, right?
Like you can get really frustrated and pissed and be
like, I don't want people to treat me like a baby.
I'm not a baby. I'm fine.
Like I'm fine. I'm fully capable of doing what
I need to do. On the other end of it, when
people expect you to just recover quickly or bounce back
or do things right away that they're like, well, this is your

(47:21):
job or whatever. You should be able to do it.
Then you're like mad because you're a changed person now.
And how can't you see that I'm changed in this way?
And so it's, it's really, really, really frustrating.
It's really hard. And actually, I really wish
Rachel was here for this becausethis grief topic is always
something that resonates with her.
But Ali is going through that. And to me, this feels like a

(47:42):
very realistic representation ofwhat grief looks like when your
whole life has been filled with grief.
Because the more loss I go through, the more guilty I begin
to feel because like I come back, like world keeps turning.
As I've said to many of people, I've had one hell of a life and
I've been through a lot and I'vehad a lot of grief in my life.

(48:03):
I've had a lot of loss. The more it happens, the less.
It's not that it doesn't affect me, it just affects me in a
different way. I don't really know how to
describe it, honestly. Is it less a?
Muscle and more of a I know of this drill.
I know myself when I'm like this, yeah.
Exactly, I know how I'm going tobe.
I told you, Dave, like I was worried I was going to lose
myself again and so I like started to do that thing again

(48:24):
where I was like, let me just pour myself into like other
things. So then all of a sudden, Daves,
like, where? Why is Bridget like popping up
constantly now, like going to New York Comic Con?
Are we doing this? Are we doing this?
And he's like, whoa. But this is tense.
This is how. I like manage it.
This makes sense to me. Throwing yourself into a mission
and then also on top of that being like everything is cool

(48:45):
baby, I'm doing finger guns. Why?
I don't know. I don't normally do them.
I am griefer. No, I do it a lot.
But I'm saying like from Allie'sperspective, it's like, why am I
cracking jokes saying I'm going to be a dad?
Now? This isn't something I would
normally do, but it's because she doesn't want to be the girl
who lost her dad. And yet she's the girl who lost

(49:05):
her dad. But there's more to that from
the. First season and from the first
game, Joel tries to tell her shedoesn't know what loss is.
And she said I've lost everyone I've cared about and I've lost
or left. They've left except for you.
And then now she's lost him too.And I think she is afraid of how
much that hurts. And her most stable way that she

(49:29):
can think of to deal with it is through violence because are
very similar and he would have dealt with it his emotions, his
deep hurt by lashing out at other people.
What happened when he lost Sarah?
He refused to talk about it. He refused to connect to anyone
else, and he became one of the worst people you can think of

(49:49):
just surviving. Did he have to do all the things
that he did to survive? Was it necessary to do those
things? Maybe they were, maybe they
weren't. It's a similar kind of reaction,
I think, that she's having to goabout, well, I have to go kill
these people. I have to torture Nora to give,
to get the answer from her. I have to because she can't see
any other way to deal with her grief.

(50:10):
Joel would. Have wanted me to.
Maybe in her, yeah. That's what Joel, if it were me,
Joel would do this in heartbeat,no problem.
And I got to. Say it's not just Joel, it is a
little Dina too, because what dowe get what we get?
Earlier on in that episode, I goto the ends of the earth to find
that guy who killed my mom had Inot found him first and shot
him. But what you're describing, both
of you in that grief is Future Days, the song by Pearl Jam.

(50:34):
It's the idea that you see the thing in front of you that is
happening, that is coming, that you're grasping towards, and yet
you are subsumed by past events,by trauma even, And you have to
make a choice to let that current take, whatever that is
away from you that you're holding on to or not.

(50:54):
And like Tess, anything good that may have come across Joel's
life until he met Ellie, ruin, whatever that is, cut people
off, not let them in, that sort of thing.
Great song choice. For starters, it's a very.
Poignant song for the theme of the game.
The idea that you can choose howgrief effects you.

(51:14):
Ultimately, you can choose to hang on to it.
You can choose to let it go. And that's all I'll say about
the rest of the themes of the game in that respect.
But it's. Kind of like what I wrote in the
description, I kind of tied it to what Dina says, that
everybody has a boring yet unique and horrifying origin
story. Can you guess how this goes?
Is it? Oh, Raiders?
Yeah, Raiders one. But yeah, you know the drill.

(51:38):
And yet some people have multiple origin stories, many
things that happen along the way.
I'm not specifying who or what or when.
I'm just saying that's us in a nutshell.
The pollen path we talked about on Dark Winds.
It's the idea that we all travelas secure as path, and
eventually, however big that circle is, eventually we stumble
across something that stops us. Sometimes we need the community

(52:01):
or the people who we love aroundus to unstick us.
Sometimes we can do it on our own, and that's great.
But every single time that happens, there's a threat.
The threat is, does this alter me?
Does this fundamentally change who I am?
And it will do that every singletime you come across this trauma
or whatever trauma befalls you or you stumble across or you
incur in relation to this, this show, we're seeing the two sides

(52:24):
of Ellie at war essentially. Isn't that the greater allegory
you have this little literal warbetween what was the Seraphites
and what is WLF or the future, you know?
Whereas Federer was kind of the middle.
But that's gone now. The present is gone now Ellie is
the present. The two sides of her warring.
That's a macrocosm to what's happening inside Ellie.

(52:45):
Which one will win out? Because it's very clear by the
end of this episode that it's not about Joel at all.
Not really. Did you get that by the end of
it? No, I'm not qualifying.
My statements. I'm.
Am I? Look at that smile.
Look at that smile. Yes, it's intentional.
Why don't you read the chat before I qualify?
OK. OK everyone said good night to
Rachel and then Francisco said Rachel is gone.

(53:08):
Time to go really deep now. I love this guy but grief is the
most destructive weapon in the world.
It will push people though. Too much grief will cause the
judgement and not see the good side of anything because there's
always a good side. IA 100% agree with that.
Maybe Ellie, after Joel's death,she stopped seeing people as
people that could be. Something I do.

(53:29):
Agree with that. I think there's a a blindness to
it because you're just right blindness.
Like you did earlier, yeah, I want to be right.
So I. Think you're.
Yeah, I think you're so. Well, because.
And Dina points it out in this episode, you go charging in,
you're a little bit crazy. It's what I love about you.
Oh. Nice, yeah.
But what she's referring to is the fact that Ellie is running

(53:50):
head first into everything. Now, obviously we see that
before Joel dies. This is part of her personality.
But I think it's amplified by this.
We see it in the choices made inthe last couple scenes of this
episode. Pause.
Pause. Because when is she not doing

(54:11):
that? When is she not rushing in?
Yeah, when she's with Dina. Correct.
What did she? Do at the beginning of this
episode, she goes, we should turn back.
You're sick, right? They stumble upon the terrified
bodies. You're sick.
This is I never should. You know what?
And she's not a burden. She's like, we shouldn't do
this. Dina rallies and tells her the
story about her mom. And because that's love, isn't

(54:32):
it? You rally for the person you
love you. You make it happen.
Because if I were in her shoes, I'd want that to happen.
And I would also be the one to say we should turn back.
But no, no, not today, no. And Joel meant something to me
too. Sorry, I just needed to throw
that in there, but in a way. She does still rush in with
Dina. Think about it.
She's 19 and she's ready to be adad.
Just like that. She finds out and she's like,

(54:53):
oh, I'm going to be a dad and she's willing to take on the
burden of somebody else's child just because, Dina said.
That is part of her personality and she's she's willing to take
on whatever it is, whether she'sexcited about it or not excited
about it. I think she's willing to just
barrel forward and be like, Yep,that's what we're doing now.
It's. Amplified, I think, by the grief
of losing Joel OH. Yeah, I didn't even consider

(55:15):
that the. Loss of Joel has LED her to
there's nothing restraining her now at this point because you
would think that her love of Dina and wanting to keep Dina
safe would be enough to restrainher for her to say never mind
it's fine let's go home you're pregnant you're going to have a
baby we're going to start a family I want that let's just
leave well the. Dina eggs are on, which I like.

(55:37):
I like that actual change in this situation.
If I were put in that position, I would want to go home and
nothing else would matter anymore.
This would be the only thing that would matter now.
I wholeheartedly. Agree.
Unfortunately, she's not you, no.
And so I think some things aboutEllie and I are very similar.
The willing to the willing to run head first into things

(55:58):
without thinking is 100% need. To be good at everything.
Oh. Yes, and then if I'm not good at
it as stupid, it's dumb. Let's go back to Jackson.
I am not good at murder. I'm not good at triangulation.
Well then it's dumb. You do it.
I don't even want to do it. You never wanted to do it, that
is. Something I will bring up the
differences between game Ellie and series Ellie.

(56:22):
She was never portrayed as beinga kid who thought school was
stupid. She just didn't like being told
what to do. She had a bigger problem with
authority. She's actually very, very smart,
as we'll see in the next episode.
Because I'm like 99% sure it's going to be a flashback episode
with Joel and Ellie. And I know what happens in the

(56:44):
flashback, and it's great. It's going to be an awesome
episode. You guys are going to love it.
I love your enthusiasm. It's.
Well established that in especially in that that
flashback that Ellie is quite intelligent.
She just wants to study what shethinks is interesting and what
she thinks is important. And she doesn't like some
authority figure standing over her telling her your behavior is

(57:07):
inappropriate, you need to do itthis way or whatever.
She doesn't like that, but she'snot unschooled in that way.
So when you know, when she mentioned she's like whenever
needed school anyway, I think she's just saying that because
that's part of like what people expect from her and this sort of
like quippiness that she has. But she does like learning.
She just wants to learn about things.

(57:27):
She wants to learn about it. Seems to me like it's more that
quest for actual St. knowledge like survival knowledge over
knowledge of things of your rights.
Like why? Do we need math so it won't?
Matter as much right now. Well, I mean.
Interestingly, she's very into space travel.
If she would have been born in the before time, she probably

(57:49):
would have wanted to be an astronaut.
And ironically, you need math for that.
But you can't do that now, so I don't want to waste my time
learning about it because it doesn't matter.
It's not applicable. Not something that's ever gonna
happen. For me, I.
Don't know we. See how intelligent she is in
this episode. The scene in the warehouse is
impressive for several differentreasons.
There were a lot of things I think to gather from just that

(58:10):
one scene, which is kind of cool.
But when they have these stalkercreeper smart, the smart ones
popping literally just everywhere in that room smart.
Substrate. Within 30 seconds, she has a
whole plan worked out to keep Dina safe.
Being able to think on your yourfeet in that way is a very
specific type of smart. It's really impressive to me and

(58:33):
think. About how she infiltrated the
hospital with guard dogs and everything around and she was on
the fly. She made that decision in a
split second when she was running through the park and
she's like, oh, there's the hospital, and she just went over
there and did it and, like, on the fly managed.
Yeah, to sneak in there without alerting hardly anybody.
I mean, the dog knew she was there but she managed to get

(58:54):
around and I'm so glad she just snuck away from the dog.
Because as. I've mentioned to you in
messages you feel like the bad guy free time I have to
encounter with the dogs. I'm grateful that they they
portrayed that in a much more humane manner.
If I ever. Play the games.
I'm going to be shooting all thedogs and just sending you the

(59:15):
video of me doing that. I.
Mean. It's not the fact that you're
doing it, it's it's the NPC's reactions to you doing it that's
so heartbreaking. It's pretty awful.
OK, All right. It's pretty.
Horrific. Check.
And make her, you know, I mean. He named her Bonnie Dave.
What do you think? There's not an emotional.
Connection. They all have names.
I love that it's. So upset.

(59:37):
I love. That for you and me, I guess.
Well, I think what you're describing is intuitions rather
than intelligence. I mean, if there's a battle
intelligence, I guess not much of tactics.
I don't know. That it's a calculated decisions
that you're making. You're just making them really
quickly. She's good on.
Her feet, She's confident, correct?
She's good. Instincts for what?
What will keep her alive I thinkis.

(59:59):
That's why I use. Intuitions.
It's kind of like a blend of thinking well on your feet,
confidence and instincts. And I never disagree with that
too, by the way. I do think she has intuitions
and everybody has their strengths, right?
Like Dina can have her charting capabilities and basically
everything she's good at. That's fine.
It's fine. Isabella, Merced, it's fine.
Go girl, do you? But you're not Ellie.

(01:00:19):
It's fine. You can be not Ellie.
It's cool for you. I love it for you.
I'm going to qualify my statement about what I said
before, because it's not about Joel.
There's a couple of things to hit on when I say that.
One, the song that she was aboutto play in the stage in the
theater, it's future Days. What future days?
Fuji days references the things she can't let go.
She was totally fine doing take on me because it's about Dina

(01:00:39):
and we're shortening that conversation.
We did it last time because it means it makes sense.
I'm with the girl that I love, even though I can't say it quite
yet. She can't say that here.
She's not ready to let go yet. She has a mission.
Like you said, grieving mission helps.
Also, you, if you are listening with headphones, you can hear
kind of like that blood in your ears, like she's getting angry.
She wants to sing the song. She has the girl that she loves

(01:01:00):
with her. She's going to be a dad.
She can't let go yet. Go to the end of the episode and
she knew. She already knew.
We don't know that she knew. We never really knew 100%.
It was never clear that she knewwhat Joel did or that Joel did
it. She knew.
Compartmentalizing. OK, That was the big tell for me
that this wasn't about Joel at all.
It's not even about Abby. It's about her.

(01:01:22):
It's a lot of that is you hatingothers.
What? You hating yourself, the
inability to protect the ones you love?
It kind of goes to what she saysto GAIL in the hospital.
I wish I could have let him off the hook.
But she says that because she wants to do the things that she
wants to do because she can't make it up to Joel.
He's no longer here to make it up to well.
Yeah, Dave, I think that's fair to say.
I understand what you're saying.I think the clear motive is that

(01:01:45):
Joel is the reason that she's going after them.
The real grief comes from her not being able to protect Joel,
to save Joel, or to make amends with Joel more.
The second thing than the first thing because of all the's that
she gave Joel before he died, the kicker comes in in the form

(01:02:05):
of that flashback. Because that's what she wants.
She wants to go back to that time where she was in her
bedroom, not in the garage in her murder factory.
It's her emo murder factory withher headphones on, building
weapons, right, Karina? She's modifying her weapon.
All the. Weapons on the floor just before

(01:02:25):
they're about to leave. And so you, there's no way you
can carry that entire artillery with you on the road.
You're a tiny human being, Ellie.
As much as you've grown over theyears, Bella Ramsey, there's no
way that's going to fit. You can't walk in the tank.
You don't have power armor like in fall anyway.
But my point is, yeah, you regret because you're Ellie.

(01:02:47):
You go in headstrong, you'll diebefore you forgive somebody,
right? This is what I was like.
You'll die before you relent. You know, unless it's Tina.
Maybe there's a there's a chancethere.
Maybe there's an opportunity to pull back.
Fine. But that flashback scene tells
me everything I need to know that maybe if I do this, I can
feel like I've made-up for that.And I think we all know where
this leads. There's no making up for that.

(01:03:09):
You have to live with that. That's life, and if you really
know Joel, you'll know that all he ever wanted for you was to be
happy and have a future, ideallywith me, but that's not
happening. This is what I was trying to say
before I literally stood up and go damn God wasn't about Abby at
all. It's not about Abby whatsoever,
it's about finding something to make up for the way she treated

(01:03:32):
Joel in his final days. Joel was doing his best.
He's reaching out to her, he's trying to connect with her with
the guitar and everything, and rant.
I agree. With you, because she pretends
like it doesn't affect her, likeyou said in the hospital, she's
flippantly saying like, Oh yeah,I wish you could forgave him and
all that. That kind of thing weighs on
you. From personal experience, family
members that are no longer here that I maybe had treated not so

(01:03:56):
great, especially when I was a teenager, I feel like there's no
way to make up for that behavior.
Even though I lived long enough to treat them better, it still
sticks with me and it still makes me regretful that for a
time I was not a good person to them.
And that's something you can never get back.
For Ellie, it's even worse because she can't even go to him

(01:04:17):
and say, hey, I'm sorry I acted this way because he's gone.
And even right before this happened, they had a blowout.
It was very fresh on both of their minds, I'm sure when that
when Joel was killed. So I agree with you.
I think that a lot of her anger and her revenge seeking is about
trying to atone for the way she treated Joel in her.

(01:04:37):
Love language, the only way she knows how.
If I do this, maybe this will make up for it.
And isn't that what Joel tried to do with Ellie?
If I take care of this one child, I don't have any
illusions about being attached to her.
But maybe if I take care of thischild, it's like a win for what
happened to Sarah. Yeah.
If he can succeed where he failed in the past, yeah.

(01:04:59):
And there's a symmetry to that too, if you think about it,
because did Joel think he was going to get attached to Ellie?
No. Did you think that Ellie for one
second would say we maybe we should go back, Maybe we
shouldn't be doing this, You shouldn't be out here.
What? I never thought she'd say those
words ever to Dina. Obviously, in not just this
episode, not even when she findsout when she's pregnant, there

(01:05:19):
is an indicator that she's not rushing in.
She's listening to Dina. She's taking her advice.
She's like deferring to her. What do you think we should do?
What? You never hesitated when it came
to Joel. You're like, we should do this.
And he had to just put a leash or he had to lasso you down to
the floor and be like, listen, Nelly, we're doing this stuffing
dump. He actually literally raises the

(01:05:40):
back of his hand because it's the, you know, it's the old
days. He's an old man.
So sorry. It.
Was so dumb, Francisco says. He promises he will catch up
with Dead City, by the way. Just trying.
To find the strength to watch it, Lucille.
She'll give you strength. Francisco says hot take.
I think Dina has been more mad about Joel's death than Ellie.

(01:06:00):
I think both should be, but fromthe last episode, it seems Dina
is more. I just want to interject here
that I think that that is an intentional choice by the
writers. I don't think that that is
actually the case. Yeah.
I agree. Compartmentalizing, yes.
It's the compartmentalization aspect of it coming through very
clearly she wants. To have her cake and eat it too

(01:06:20):
is basically what I'm thinking. It's like, I have this thing
with Dina now. I don't want to screw that up,
but I still want to get that revenge because clearly.
OK, what happens at the end of this?
Just. I'm sorry, I'm.
I'm doing this thing. They get separated in the park.
Yeah. And she should go back to the
theater, but she sees the hospital in the distance.
She's like, that's what I'm. Saying like she cannot, she
can't help herself. Like it's that rushing in head

(01:06:43):
first, not even thinking like I should have other people with
me. I should think this through just
barreling in. But.
Also, what was the last thing that was said before they
encountered issues with people? Tommy and me are here.
We left a day after you did, which is why we're here in day
2. And in addition to that, we're

(01:07:03):
taking your ass home. So if she is to go home, she
wants to go to the hospital to find to.
First of all, if she can find Abby that night, of course she's
going to take care of Abby. But if she can find enough
evidence about Abby's whereabouts, it might be enough
to get Tommy on board to be ableto.
Jesse, slow your roll. Tommy and Ellie are going to go

(01:07:24):
hunting for Abby because she knows that if she gives him just
enough, they're already here. She gives Tommy just enough.
He'll be like, all right, fine. I'm glad that we are now kind of
full circle with the game where you remember I told you that's.
The reason? I.
Thought that when he said me andTommy I was like the reason?

(01:07:44):
Nice, we're back to it. Half the reason they're there is
for in game is for revenge and then the other half is to bring
Tommy home because Tommy is the one who left early and a lot of
your adventures and things like that are are going to find Tommy
and I, I did want to bring up that the way Jesse arrives is

(01:08:04):
somewhat similar in the game. Very different circumstances
though, because again, Dean has been listening to the radio as
we've established in game, she'sstaying at the theater, She's
too ill to go anywhere else. So she's been helping the best
way she can by mapping out all the zones that they're talking
about. And Dina mentions in the series
that they talk like they know nobody's listening.

(01:08:25):
So Dina's in game is able to gather all this information
about what zones they're at, alltheir troop movements,
everything is they're just saying it out loud.
So she's mapping it out for Ellie.
As they're figuring it out, a broadcast comes over about a
lone male trespasser and they'relike, oh, it's got to be Tommy,
I'm going to go figure it out. And that's when Ellie goes out
by herself to Hillcrest. And they abbreviated a lot of

(01:08:49):
Day 2 because most of Day 2 is you raping through Seattle,
getting into skirmishes, taken out, infected.
It's a slog to get from one point to another.
But essentially you go find thislone male trespasser, which
happens to be Jesse, not Tommy. And Jesse says very much the
same thing. I left the day after you.

(01:09:10):
And then they just have a short conversation together about
these WLFS and how crazy they are and like they just shoot
people on site. Then he would give me a chance
to explain myself, and it asked me any questions.
It just started shooting. This is what they've experienced
in the past, too, where Isaac has now said, just shoot all the
trespassers. We're not taking any chances.
I don't care who they are, Just kill them.
So they go back together, Ellie and Jesse.

(01:09:31):
And Jesse's got a little bit of like a sprained ankle or
whatever. So he needs time to rest for
just a moment. And in that time, Dina figures
out that Nora is at the hospital.
And they said, oh, we know who Nora is, Let's go, I'm going to
go to the hospital. And he begs Ellie to wait, wait
for Jesse so that he can go withher safety.
In numbers, yeah. She refuses and she just goes

(01:09:53):
out by herself. She's like, Nora will be gone by
the time he wakes up and we go over there.
She'll be gone. I'll miss my opportunity to have
to go now. Ellie's encounter with the
stalkers in Day 2 in this large office building, and it's
probably I'd have to play through that section again
because I wasn't paying attention.
I was too busy worrying about where the stalkers were.

(01:10:13):
So they're the same. Basically, yeah.
So she gets swarmed by stalkers in this one building in game.
And one of my favorite things isyou finally get through this
area, and it's a whole chaotic mess to get out of there.
Even if you're taking your time and getting through this area
cautiously, at the end, you still get ambushed by many, many

(01:10:34):
infected, and you get knocked into the river.
Not a real river. It's a river that's happened
because the whole city's fallingapart.
I don't know what's going on in Seattle.
I don't know if they have earthquakes or what, but
everything is just absolutely destroyed in Seattle.
So you fall into the river whichthen sweeps you into the sewers.
How video? Gave me.
I know right? Sorry you.
Have to get make your way out ofthe sewers.

(01:10:55):
And she says one of my favorite things that she says she's like
like Seattle. Like that's not what?
She says like so. She's just so over this place,
and when she climbs out of the sewers, she's now at the
entrance of the park where she encounters the Seraphytes.
And that scene is almost exactlylike in the game.
You watch this whole scene play out from hiding from bushes.

(01:11:17):
Ellie actually gets shot with the arrow in her shoulder.
And then you have to find your way around the Seraphytes, and
it's challenging and difficult because they're those torches
game mechanic that keeps you from being able to hide in the
brush the way you normally wouldbecause they can see you.
They're not. Clickers, Yeah.
Exactly. They're pretty good at sneaking
up on you, too. So yeah, that whole thing is

(01:11:38):
pretty much the same, except in the series we have Dina and
Jesse along for the ride, at least for a little while.
Eventually, you make your way tothe hospital and you confront
Nora. The chase scene is exactly the
same, including them shooting atyou from the balcony.
So I was excited to see that type of thing.
Her initial confrontation with Nora is the same, she says the

(01:12:00):
exact same thing to her and pisses her off and like that's
where they end up chasing her through the hospital.
The biggest difference would be the ending of that sequence
where they end up in the spore infested area.
She takes Nora with her and chooses to throw them both down
into the spore infested. Up until this.
Point Ellie in the game has beenthrough spores.
It's old hat to her right? Oh yeah.

(01:12:21):
This is no big deal for her. So the only escape route she
has, she's cornered by other wolf soldiers who are basically
they're in a standoff. And so finally she just, she's
got Nora and she just throws them both over the edge and into
the infected area where you thenfollow her in with the red light
and everything. All of that is exactly the same.

(01:12:41):
And I think that's great that they decided to add the spores
in because it's a big element ofthat scene that Nora is dying
anyway. She's infected at this point,
and she has nothing to lose. And she has no reason to tell
Ellie anything. She's not going to give up her
friend. And so Ellie, of course, makes
the decision to get it out of her any way she can.

(01:13:02):
And in that moment, I will say those last 10 minutes, but it
keeps talking about that was thetruest depiction of game Ellie
that I have seen so far, aside from, of course, Joel's death
scene. She was very accurate in that as
well. But I think there's so much
going on emotionally in that scene that it's hard to process

(01:13:24):
with this. You can really focus in because
we don't really care about Nora that much and what's going to
happen to her. So we can kind of focus in, at
least for me, I can focus in on what Ellie is doing, what Bella
is doing as an actress portraying this character.
So perfectly in that moment. So I did want to point that out.
That me too. I also feel like that scene was

(01:13:47):
just perfect in every way. I don't agree with people who
don't think that Bella should beplaying Ellie.
I think she does an amazing job with it and they are making some
choices to change her character slightly, possibly for the
better. Because if you look at Ellie's
trajectory and her choices in the game, she can be very
unlikable. The way she treats Dina when she

(01:14:09):
finds out she's pregnant, the way she habitually chooses her
own goals over her friend's safety over and over and over
again. There is something to be said
for how that leads you to the end of the story and the choices
that she ultimately makes by theend of it, but I'm curious to
see how they're going to approach those subjects once we
get there in the series to see if like.

(01:14:30):
Everything that we've built up towards makes a little bit more
sense, like in the grand narrative.
Or if it has a even more. Impactful.
Emotional gut punch when she ultimately makes the decisions
that I know she's going to at the end based on the way she
treats her friends in the seriesversus in the game, yeah.
I have to say several things to everything you just said before

(01:14:53):
we go back to the chat, because I know we we kind of stopped
because we had because Francisco, you said something
that was amazing and we had to latch onto it.
Let me go with the thing you just said, which was the
intensity of that scene and how it differs from the game and how
sports are always a thing. But Nora made a decision in this
episode to go down the shaft knowing that they were sport.
Well, she was trying to. Get through.

(01:15:14):
Yeah, She was trying to get through, and then the elevator
fell and I don't think she intended to be in the basement,
but that's just what happened. Yeah.
I can, I can accept that. It's well known that if that
shaft opens, that one should seal off the area, which is what
was said in my headphones as because they turn, they don't go
after them. They like, no, no, no, seal the
corridor because the elevator shaft is open.

(01:15:36):
We ain't taking no chances. Fine, but I like to think that
Nora did this on purpose. 2 reasons She did this on purpose
to save her friend and and otherfriends.
Abby may well at least Abby because there is something to
that. There's a sort of reciprocity in
narrative where Ellie offers to Dina, we should, maybe we
shouldn't do this. Maybe we should turn back.

(01:15:57):
You know, maybe we should. We shouldn't be doing this at
the end of the last episodes. Like maybe we should turn back
now. It's like you're going to be a
mom. This is crazy.
This is reckless. There's an element here from
Nora that and especially after what she says, that little bitch
deserved to die. That's Joel.
Yeah, she's also she. Completely believes in what they
did was the right thing to do because why not?

(01:16:18):
Dina said it best. If it was me, it doesn't matter.
If we did them wrong, they did us wrong.
We got to do it back, whatever. So I like to think there was a
choice that she because she wentto spare her friends.
If I die here, nobody else gets hurt.
She doesn't get the information she needs, the guards can take
her out, blah, blah, blah. Going to Dina being shot in the
leg with an arrow in the park. In the show, we had thought, OK,

(01:16:39):
what could be the thing that could get Dina to stay at home
base? It's not the vomiting and the
yelling at you. You are burdened.
It's not any of that. It's an arrow through the leg.
And guess who? Pretty definitively.
An arrow to the knee for the Skyrim fans.
Wow, geek. I love it you.
Invited me here because of this.You knew it was coming.

(01:17:01):
You knew it was. Maybe you didn't.
It's fine. Still like you.
It's cool. I hope you like me.
That's all I care about. You laughed.
So let's just throw it all on the table.
I'm just having Bridget. Laughed out of what is.
Happening I'm. Having an internal monologue,
he's. Freaking out like does.
She like me. I don't like it because it's my

(01:17:25):
it's my internal thoughts out loud and I don't like it.
Stop. Are we the?
Same, Bridget. Yes, Dave, I'm constantly like,
do they hang? Was.
That weird actually, somebody. So I.
I think that's interesting. So now Dina's at home base and
she's going to have to be there for quite a while because it's
not real life. Means you when you get the

(01:17:46):
narrow through the knee, you're kind of out for the count for
quite a while. Her.
Only choice now is to become a town guard so you know.
It is take. Care of the only choice.
To plug Viva La Dirtly, because they they always pan stuff like
that in video games. They're a comedy troupe that

(01:18:06):
really just makes fun of video game.
Well, that makes fun of video games.
They love video games, but some of the idiosyncrasies are really
fun to make fun of. In regards to the spores, I
really want to know, did you geek out when he started seeing
the spores? Yeah.
I mean, the visually it looks almost identical because you can
see them in the air, especially the shot specifically of her

(01:18:27):
walking down the overgrown hallway from behind because
that's generally what you see ingame.
And the sort of black or dusty looking like puffs of spores
that's exactly like in the game as you're walking through those
areas. The only difference would be
that you would have, if you werenot playing as Ellie, you would

(01:18:48):
have a mask on, like a breathingmask.
That's a big part of 1 portion of Abby's story is finding a
mask for another character. And so I'm curious if they will
actually include that now, because before when we didn't
know spores were a thing, I'm like, I guess they're just going
to cut that whole part out and no, they might actually include
it now. So I'm excited about that.

(01:19:09):
Yeah, I really liked that. And I liked seeing that whole
overgrown environment because you do see a lot of that,
especially playing as Ellie, because she's immune, so she can
go through these areas that other people are afraid to go
into because the risk of infection is so much higher.
But of course, in game, that's always the case.
I mean, every area where there'sinfected, it probably has

(01:19:30):
spores. So you're wearing a mask through
a lot of it. But in the series it it has this
heightened level of like fear, Ithink for them because they've
never encountered it before. And it's like, wow, even the air
can kill you now. So we don't know what to do
except let's just seal it off and not go down there at all,
which arguably is the smartest decision that they can make
instead of trying to risk it with a breathing mask.

(01:19:50):
Yeah, I. Don't know what this means in
grander show lore, but it's kindof cool to think is another.
The thing that they mentioned inthe flashback was the B2B3 was
where they kept the first patients from the initial
outbreak in O3. Boom.
In a sense, they're reordering the stages of infection in a
way, because if you think about it from the beginning would

(01:20:13):
typically be overtime bloaters, I guess is kind of the logic,
yeah. The ones that were infected the
longest become bloaters. Eventually I.
Contend that maybe remember thatscene where Kelly sees the
infected in the basement of the supermarket in the first season?
I think this is episode 3, the Frank and Bill one.
But she cuts a swab on his forehead.

(01:20:35):
It's just kind of like eyeing her.
Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I thought that would have been a good because he's been
down there a long time. And yet something that you'd
said in the game was that usually, typically it's because
there's a large number of them in a given area and they kind of
just exude enough sports to makeit a environmental hazard.
So I think that's what they're kind of going for.

(01:20:57):
It couldn't be been a lone 1. They'd have to be enough to be
able to do it right. Yeah, so many people in the
hospital, I mean explaining without giving things away
because a lot of what you learn about that particular section of
the hospital happens in Abby's story, which I am sure we will
see. Yes, so, so yeah, remember I

(01:21:18):
when I said it's day 1-2 and three for Ellie and then day 1-2
and three for Abby on day 2, they are in the same location at
different times. So we will see Abby in the
hospital at some point on her day 2.
I'm sure they're following that.It would have played out.
I don't think that they're goingto divert away that far from the

(01:21:40):
story to happen so far, but where they're all clustered
together, wherever they're trapped inside of a building for
a long period of time, you get all of this Cordyceps blooming
all over the walls and everything else, just like
fungus would normally grow in a damp, warm environment.
I did like the addition. I will say of the ones that were
growing into the wall, those mostly serve in game as just

(01:22:02):
jump scares because some of thememboss the wall and attack you
and you'd never know which one because they all look the same.
It could be one that will come alive, it could be one that
doesn't. But I did like the addition in
the series that the ones that are growing into the walls are
breathing out these spores. So that was an interesting
change or detail that they addedfor the series going back.
To what I was trying to say was like, it could be interesting

(01:22:24):
and infected that hasn't had theability to spread.
And this show, it's not clear whether they feed, although the
stalkers appear to have fed because one of the things we
said, they're not walkers. Everybody.
They're not eating the people, at least in the first season.
But in this episode, it's not entirely clear, because it feels
like the stalkers, at the very least, feed off of the people
more than they want to spread their network, their bite.

(01:22:46):
Certainly put some type of cordycep into the bite because
it was growing out of Ellies bite from episode 1.
And then the the one with tests that like sort of gave her that
weird Cordyceps kiss or whatever.
That was like trying to spread it to her that way.
Where in game very much clickersand things like that when they

(01:23:07):
attack you, like they just RIP out your throat like they're
just they're trying to kill you.Like I don't see that they're
trying to spread beyond creatinga body for the fungus to grow
on, which can then spread through spores.
But yes, they're not eating you.They just want you to.
They just don't want you walkingaround anymore.
What if? They were there without a
feeding source and they had to feed off of themselves, quote UN

(01:23:29):
quote. It moves past some of the stages
and goes to Bloater, but then past Bloater and then this is
kind of where they end up. They can't move anymore.
All they can do is spread spores.
That could be the last stage of evolution given a feeding
source, because if they are in enclosed space for a given
period of time altogether spreading their tentacles and
the mycelial network or corset network, whatever, I can see a

(01:23:51):
world in which, okay, the whole thing is to make them infected.
So that go forth young man beinginfected and get to get us more
food, bring them back here. It's like we can spread and do
things those. Stalkers were creepy by the way,
got to talk about them and the spores definitely just did that
Francisco. So Ellie wishes she should have
done more. But in life doing more is never
enough. I don't think even if Ellie

(01:24:12):
takes out Abby it won't be enough because Ellie won't have
Joel around to feel what she didwas to make her feel better.
And also Karina. It sounds like a normal day in
Seattle. I've never been.
I don't know. Hopefully there's more in game
Ellie moments soon because everyone craves that.
And then Sharon D said hi Power just came back on.

(01:24:34):
Worst Cupid ever. Dave, you spreading your
neuroses disagree. Disagree.
Then thank you. I also love my spooky shirt.
I will confess it as pajamas though, so don't think that I'm
like, cute and dressed to the nines.
I'm just in a matching set rightnow.
That's it, Francisco says. I think the show tries a lot to

(01:24:57):
show fans to sympathize with Ellie or Joel, be like them
except grief, revenge. And I think that might be why
people dislike the writing. The game is very brutal.
It is one of the best parts of the series so fast in terms of
the cordycep virus. And then Charity said the
cinematography and set design inthe basement was fire.

(01:25:17):
You should see. The Instagram post by Set
designer and makeup artist, I forget her name Abby something
or other but it just there's a carousel.
There's video that she even showed the arrow through the
stunt person's leg played Dina. So much giving from this person
who works on set home. I can't remember at the moment,
Francis. Calorini says probably in season

(01:25:38):
3. I think this is a reference to
Abby's part of the story based on how things are going
currently, which is is fair. It does appear like we might get
the rest of it in season 3. I don't.
I think those kids we're on episode 5 and how, how many
episodes are there 6 or is there?
Seven, Yeah. Does we have what I believe is
the flashback episode and then day three?

(01:25:58):
And then day three, and then which stuff will come in Season
3? Yes, he also.
Says I hate how short the episodes are.
I wish they were like an hour. Like a full hour, yeah.
I did feel like this episode wasincredibly short, especially
with how much happens in Day 2. But again, a lot of what's
happening in Day 2 and game is you playing the game.
It's like you just slogging through all of these locations

(01:26:22):
that are just infested with clickers and wolves and all that
kind of stuff. And actually the events that
happened, there's not many and they all happened in this
episode. So we didn't miss anything.
It's just we got there so much faster.
Charity also said her worst Cupid ever comment was actually
to whoever shot Dina Dita. Actually, best Cupid ever.

(01:26:44):
We should shoot more. They're really good, one of you
guys said. For a a group of Luddites,
essentially, they're pretty effective, yeah.
Definitely, so I don't. Remember what it was?
I don't want. I want to give credit where
credit is due, but here we are with the buddy.
There was one more thing I wanted to say about the spores.
It's always. One thing, Dave, I had.
Checked prior title sequences even from the first episode and

(01:27:05):
I had thought, oh there is spores in the title sequence in
this episode. Apparently there's a little bit
less of them in the prior title sequences, but in this episode
you notice it a whole lot more. There's a lot more spreadage of
the, what is it called, like dust mites in the air, that sort
of thing. But it's really now we know that
it's actually spores. So and you'll notice it way more

(01:27:27):
when the actual title comes on screen, like it spreads on
screen at the end of the title sequence and you could see it
just kind of blooming out of thesides and stuff like that.
Whereas in the pre prior titles again you have to pay attention
to the title sequences because they fooled us that one time in
episode 2 when it was the lone I've been.
Watching it every time, Dave andI don't notice anything else

(01:27:47):
different, but I didn't. Notice the spores in the title
sequence? Well, now.
You know, and now you'll pay more attention.
If you want to compare it yourself, there's not a terrible
difference, but it is more noticeable in this this
particular title sequence. Will they continue it?
I don't know. Who cares?
Just thought you should know. Hey kiddo, how did it feel to
see Joel again? Let's just talk about that for a

(01:28:08):
minute, Francisco. Says I just want to say one more
thing. I love you, my squawks.
That's how. That's how we do.
Oh, yeah. One more thing.
Thanks, Francisco. One more thing.
Good night. The thank you walk away whatever
from the back focus shoot reallysubscribe to that Channel.
It's so valuable. Anyway, Bridget, what did you
think about Joel in that flashback?

(01:28:29):
Did it hurt your heart? Hurt it made?
Me happy. Did you think it?
Had a greater significance to what we just saw.
Like, what did you feel on that?That's not English, It was a.
Weird way was it a? Weird way.
It was a weird way. To say that I got distracted in
that sentence. Realized that actually I don't.

(01:28:49):
Have ADHD shut up to allegedly Idon't know what am I what am IA
TV scientist? What am I a dead ologist?
It look like I have a doctorate in The Walking Dead.
What am I, Doctor Walker? Where did?

(01:29:10):
You get that? So funny, I just feel like we're
lying to our audience because wetalked about this thing that
we're going to mention in the next episode, Dead City, when we
talk about the breakdown. It's so dumb.
It is so. Dumb Karina, do you have any
thoughts about seeing Joel at the end?
Feelings first, I knew. That he was going to be back in
the series again, So, and I'm aware that I did say he would be

(01:29:32):
back. I knew he was going to show up
right then and there. Actually, that's what it sounded
like at first. So.
It's like the way that they did that by juxtaposing this very
happy, bright scene with something very dark and
traumatic is exactly what they do in the game.
It's usually at the end of each day, sometimes in between, but
definitely always after something very brutal happens,

(01:29:54):
they'll smash cut to a flashbackof an simpler time or an earlier
time. So that did kind of, I mean, it
felt very similar to what they do in the game.
And that sequence is exactly thesame where you torture Nora for
information. There's a little bit more.
I'm sure they're going to show it in the final episode after

(01:30:16):
getting the information that shewanted when she returns to the
theater. And it's an important scene and
I'm sure that we will see it. But that flashback occurs just
after that. So it's in the same time frame,
Sally's birthday, actually. So we get to see what happens
during her birthday some years past.
So yeah. And I'm, I'm really excited for

(01:30:38):
next week's episode because I know it's going to be a really
great one. And of course Joel will be in it
through the whole thing, so thatwill be fun.
So I. Like that for all the people who
miss Joel, this is going to be like myself, too perfect.
He'll be in season 3 as well I'msure because there's plenty of
flashbacks that we have not seenyet that he is in in the game

(01:31:00):
that are very important to the story.
Even into season 3 when I'm surethe story is going to be
focusing on Abby a lot, we will still have moments with Ellie
and Joel. I love that for for all of us,
especially Heather, who was particularly shattered by Joel.
Seth, I'm so. Sorry, Karina's.
YouTube feed looks like she got the Cordyceps.
I think that's the bleed through.

(01:31:20):
No, she's. Infected and she's infecting
this with her Francisco. Said it's OK, she's immune,
Charity said. My thought was this better not
be an effing dream sequence, everybody.
'S a flashback, it's not a. Dream sequence.
Francisco said. I also said weeks ago that Pedro
still has a few episodes on his contract.
Who knows, maybe he will get outof his grave and play golf with
Abby. Joel, you're so going to regret

(01:31:43):
crossing me and crossing me. What am IA, Putty, cat I?
Don't know actually. Let's read that in in Putty Cat,
Joel says you're going to quack crossing me in a few minutes.
Wow, Bridget didn't not like that.
It could tell. They're like, oh, should I laugh
or should I make him look stupid?
Also in that New York I didn't like.
It I didn't like it. I can't reiterate this enough.

(01:32:09):
I did not like that. Whatever that was, I did not
like it. My ultimate plan was to get
Karina to laugh for some reason.Why she keeps doing?
It, but I'll take it. The one thing I wanted to
mention was it was clear from a mash up either from the from I
think it was the Last of Us account, Last of Us, the game
account, obviously at The Last of Us on Twitter.

(01:32:32):
And they had compared Abby from the show killing Joel to Ellie
from the show killing Nora and how it was quite almost frame by
frame, shot by shot. Perfect.
Obviously different setting, obviously different props, but
it was Abby reaching back and getting the Golf Club and
bringing it forward and similar boarding of the scene.

(01:32:52):
I love that. What's interesting about that is
Ellie in the show was not awake or there to see the initial
parts of the attack on Joel. So I find it interesting to see
that mirror because again, if what Deena is saying is true in
this episode, there's going to be a point at which Deena is
right. It can go either way.

(01:33:13):
We can leave or go. It doesn't matter.
Nobody's going to fault you. We can leave.
We can continue with this mission, whatever it is, but if
it was me, I would die finding my mother's killer had I not
killed him. Obviously, you kill my father, I
kill your father. Now we kill your all your
friends. Now we kill all your friends.
WLF is going to Jackson. They're going to kill all of
them. They're going to kill all the
seraphights and WLF. It could go on forever.

(01:33:37):
But I, I love that there's a mirror here for what Ellie does
and what Abby does and how it's shot.
Perfect. Almost I think.
That that's very true of the game in general, that Ellie is
mirroring many things that Abby has done or experienced without
even realizing it, because in the game she doesn't see the
beginning of Joel's torture and everything else.

(01:33:58):
I mean, it happens very similarly, but she arrives after
it's already basically over with.
It's one of those things that you as the player or as the
viewer are going to notice that this character doesn't realize
how closely they're following inAbby's footsteps.
This person that they perceive as an enemy and the worst person

(01:34:19):
possible. And she's literally doing
exactly the same thing that Abbydid and the same thing.
You know, ultimately they're just repeating itself over and
over again. You want to tell the the
characters like you're caught ina cycle and you have no way of
breaking it because you can justwatch it happen because in the
moment you feel justified in going after Nora and then by the

(01:34:40):
end of it, playing the game as an experience versus watching it
happen always are going to feel different.
In game. You're hitting the button every
time Ellie strikes Nora and it'sit's so intense and you can't
not do it. You have to do it.
Otherwise the game just stalls out and stops right there to
move the story forward. You have to do this so you don't

(01:35:02):
have agency over the character in that moment.
She's made her decision and you're being forced to act it
out and it's difficult sometimesand just like I said, it's great
to. Know yeah it's.
You know, she hesitates for a moment and then it waits for
your button input before she starts hitting Nora.
And every time she does, you're hitting the button every time.
So it's like, could you? Imagine Ellie looking back at

(01:35:24):
you going hit the button. This is how.
It went. This is how it goes.
You got. Me here.
You killed all those people along the way.
Come on man, I never. Talk.
You're telling me you didn't setup all those blast traps and
shoot people with shotgun? I'm pretty sure you did so.
Let's go. I'm like, someone has to break
the cycle. It's not going to be you player
unfortunately. We don't get the choice.

(01:35:47):
If you guys don't mind, I want to leave off with the following
before we do the things. It's present tense by Pearl Jam
and I rarely recite lyrics on the show because it's super
boring. But the reason why I like it is
you'll see in a second. Do you see the way the tree
bends? Does it inspire leaning out to
catch the sun rays? A lesson to be applied.

(01:36:08):
Are you getting something out ofthis all-encompassing trip?
Meaning the present be in the moment.
You can spend your time alone redigesting past regrets or you
can come to terms and realize you're the only one who can't
forgive yourself. Makes much more sense to live in
the present tense. Have you ideas on how this life
ends? Check your hands and study the
lines. Have you the belief the road

(01:36:29):
ahead ascends off to the light or not?
Seems that needlessly. It's getting harder to find an
approach in a way to live. Are we getting something out of
this all-encompassing trip? You can spend your time alone
redigesting past regrets, Joel. Or you can come to terms and
realize you're the only one thatcannot forgive yourself.

(01:36:49):
Makes much more sense to live inthe present tense.
How apartment? How apartment?
So if you like what you've heardeverybody, sometimes you like
hearing lyrics to songs and how appropriate they are in the
moment. Head on over to read this
podcast.com/walkingdead. Five stars in a guitar is all we
need to know. You love us.
Tell us what you liked, Tell us what you didn't like.
Even if it's lyrics, just remember to tell us after every

(01:37:11):
single episode. It really does count.
Thanks to Kim Riley for leaving.That last review really, really
was nice to hear and it's a great way to communicate.
You can leave comments on both Spotify and YouTube.
Feedback is super important because we can look at analytics
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(01:37:33):
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It's the goal of this podcast toget you to think of things
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Because it's all about the love.It's all the different ways in

(01:37:56):
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(01:38:16):
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(01:38:37):
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(01:38:59):
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(01:39:22):
Other people get to see it. Other people you follow get to
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You're not doing that liking. It's a message.
I've been your host David Cameo,and I like you and I was joined
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Bridget, so you can find me at ko-fi.com/punky Brewster.

(01:39:45):
That's PUNKYBRUISETER. Karina on Instagram.
It's CARINAE under score D and Etta Karina art everywhere else.
Yeah, check out her art, everybody.
It's been a while since we pumped out her art and she's
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It's pimp Korean out. She's not just a geek.
She's she's really talented. So check out CARINAE under score

(01:40:08):
D on Instagram. You'll get to everything from
there That's. Right, Mother Effer.
What are you? Doing.
Bro horns up take. Your video, we'll see you.
In the next one and now I'm going to leave awkwardly right
now and see you later. He just.
He just. Walks away like this.
Can't wait. For the next episode, hey, join

(01:40:29):
us in the studio as we talk about Dead City on Sunday.
We're happy to have you, and theonly way you're going to know
about that is if you follow our Kofi and Patreon pages.
You'll get notifications when our schedule updates, and
that'll be that. OK, everybody, we'll see you
soon. Bye.
Thanks, Francisco. Thank you.
Everybody's on the stream. You have the One and Rob
Matthews and we love you and goodnight and.
Yeah. Let's do a millennial pause

(01:40:51):
together. Ready.
Oh I'm sorry, I should be like this.
Stop the stream. Like this you're.
Not supposed to talk? Thank you for making it to the
end of yet another episode of Squawking Dead.
This one the fifth episode of The Last of Us.

(01:41:13):
A second season titled Feel Her Love, and I hope you felt our
love throughout this episode. I think real love is not asking
for in return. However, beggars can't be
choosers and we could use a little of your help.
Speaking of, before I get to ouracknowledgments, A perk that
Great M Survivors and Whisper Tier members receive at the end
of every episode we have recorded.

(01:41:33):
For those of you who've watched Dead City, an interview with The
Who plays Victor on The Walking Dead, Dead City named Logan
Schmucker. He is the violinist that soothes
Negan in his cell in the 1st 2 episodes.
If you caught the episode that we covered last, you'll note my
emotional reaction, which I discussed with Logan in person
in my apartment. So we'll get to see a little bit

(01:41:54):
of that. If you happen to tip us, you'll
receive access to that particular interview or any
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you'll have access to that in perpetuity.
So get on that. If you're interested, you'll see
it is a multicam interview and I've made both cameras available
in the same video in the polished episode.

(01:42:14):
We'll be switching back and forth between the two camera
vantage points. Without further ado, I'd like to
thank starting with the great M tier, the greatest dish tier,
Real Ryan GM on Instagram and X.Moving on to the whispers tier.
We have Skylar Rose at Skylar Rose PW on Instagram and X and
of course at Kim dot Rowley number one on Facebook.
When we mentioned near the end, as it so happens, we're getting

(01:42:37):
very close to the end with the penultimate episode premiering
this Sunday night and the seasonfinale occurring during our time
at the camp. So I'll have a little bit of
time to cover that since we don't know when season 3 will be
coming out. Join us in the studio as we
discuss The Walking Dead, Dead City always after the AMC Plus
premiere so your thoughts can make it to our episodes.
The only way you can do that is by following our Kofi or Patreon

(01:42:59):
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(01:43:20):
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Take care everybody. I'll see you real soon and just
remember that we are squawking dead.

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

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The Last Of Us |2x05 "Feel Her Love"

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang