The Walking Dead: Dead City |2x02 "Another Sh💩tty Lesson"

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
When we did the recording the other day and you were talking
about your towel and all that, Iwas like, I don't know what
they're talking about. But since I went back and
listened to the episode today, now I know you were talking
about all the stuff that you found on TWD shop.com, that the
shipping was stupid, so outrageous.
Actually I'm sorry, I found it on eBay but it was also for sale
on Mercari by the same seller for the same price, but on

(00:21):
Mercari I had $10. I bought it on the car.
That's a good advertisement. Let's reach out to them.
Mercari. Mercari.
Mercari pay us. I got Silas's entire Wii system,
including an exercise board, little steering wheels.
Yeah, and three games on Mercari.
Mercari is a great one. It's where a lot of this stuff
behind me came from. If it wasn't from TWD, you shop

(00:46):
whatever the hell it's called now.
Why are you muted, David? Why are you muted?
Sorry, I was just and I forgot to unmute.
It's the first time for everything.
That was funny. We are squawking dead, a podcast

(01:19):
pulverizing programs beyond The Walking Dead universe.
Sometimes we give you news, sometimes we make you laugh.
Most times we go deep. I'm your host, David Cameo, and
I'm joined by. Cosmo Mom, 09 me.
Lazy Gardner. And Bridget, you can find me at
youtube.com, slash at Punky Rooster.
That's PUNKYBRUISETER. And we're here to talk to you,

(01:41):
with you, about you, against youover another week of The Walking
Dead. Dead Cities.
Second episode of Season 2 titled Another Issue.
My niece and nephew may watch this at some point in the
future. And I cannot do it.
I just cannot do it. I edit it out for the most part
in most places. I mistakenly called Pearly

(02:03):
Armstrong, Percy Armstrong. Dumb mistakes.
I mostly caught it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I called him Percy Armstrong, Sniper Pro.
So rectifying that mistake in this episode, we do have merch
in our merch store. I'm bringing it up in the
beginning of the episode as opposed to the end of the
episode where you usually tune out and I do the acknowledgments
to our supporters and credit them in the episode because of
the perk. We do have merch in the merch

(02:24):
store. It's Walking Dead, Dead City
logo, Squawking Dead City, as well as the manhole cover art
design. I hope you take a look at those
and consider purchasing them, along with considering to tip us
on this episode, along with possibly joining a membership to
support our endeavors. It would be really cool if you
did. I'd like some feedback and if

(02:45):
you have any cool ideas for season 2, I'm willing to throw
that up on the screen. We're going to keep the current
logo design, but if you have artideas in mind, I thought maybe
mimicking the Radio City neon sign and just putting Dead City
on it and then we could put the squawking Dead City logo
somewhere, but I don't have anything really cool.
Happy to get your input and credit you at least with the

(03:06):
concept and then we can execute.In case you missed it in our
last live stream of The Last of Us, which is every Tuesday until
the end of the season, Hopefully, fingers crossed.
We had mentioned that we will begoing to the camp.
The camp is a great little intimate convention of many,
many people. Of course, in Peachtree City,
GA, it's taking place at the Crowne Plaza.

(03:27):
They are not the Hilton Peachtree as was the case for
many, many years. You can head over to the camp
events SCOM to see all The Walking Dead and also a handful
of smattering of folks from fromwho will be attending more than
just the the cost of autographs and selfies and photo OPS.
It's just a great way to just walk in the halls and you will

(03:48):
buy things. You're going to want to buy
tickets to events to hang out with these people.
That's the Creme de la Creme. That's kind of the reason for
the season. There's not many of them left,
so if you're going to, you got to hurry it up.
I feel like she's talking to me right now.
Well, events. Events have sold out like crazy.
Right. Even though they've added a few
on, they've been purchasing those as.

(04:09):
Well, yes, thankfully I was paying attention when the Emily
Kinney concert restock happened,because otherwise I was not
getting into that concert at all.
If anything at all, you can buy a lot of your stuff when you get
there. But really, once you get there,
you walk around, you meet people, us people, not just the
actor people, but us people, people like you.

(04:30):
But also you'll be bumping into different celebrities and stuff
like that, and you'll be very, very nice and cordial to them
and not swamp them, crowd them or bite them like Norman Reedus.
It's just great to be among themand to be respectful and to be
there and present with them. And there's a mutual respect
going on that is understood and has been understood.
And I'm surprised that it's worked out for the most part for

(04:52):
the last several years. And so I cannot wait to see
those of you who are going to bethere.
Again, I should remind everybodywe do not have a merch table for
you to visit us, but we will be walking around and being among
you and we'll have stickers on us and hopefully you'll get
something from us because we like giving out free stuff so
that you remember us hopefully fondly do.

(05:13):
I need to buy a ticket. No.
We got you. We.
Got you. I I took care of it already.
Wow, I'm. Going to drive all the way down
there. They're going to be like, sorry,
no entry. Didn't you read our thread on
the camp, Rachel? No, I just.
Know if I included her, it mighthave just been you and me, Dave.

(05:34):
Maybe just cut them. I cut them from it.
Maybe. I'm not sure.
Let me cut these two out. It's fine.
I'll just give them the ticket. They don't need to know any of
the details. Just show up, you're good.
Yeah, show up, you're fine. There are a few events still for
sale. This is what differs the camp
from other conventions. You get these events that you
could attend that have more of aone-on-one.

(05:56):
It's not one-on-one. You're with other people, don't
get it twisted, but you have more of that feel because you're
with a small group of people doing something with a
celebrity, which is quite fun. So for instance, on May 23rd,
there is a Dancing with the Deadevent.
It's a Latin dance experience with Paulo Lazaro, so you can do
a dance class with her which is quite fun.

(06:16):
They often do some sort of like game where you and a bunch of
other people get partnered with a celebrity and you are on their
team and you're playing against other celebrity teams.
So there are still tickets to celebrity beer pong.
Also on Friday there is still a fireside chat with David Alpay,
who is Jade from from if you're interested.
There are still tickets to both parties, one of which will be

(06:38):
emceed by our very own Rachel over here, Glowyoki.
The Encore is a karaoke event that is black light, kind of,
and Rachel will be emceeing that.
And that is only $25 to get into.
Our Rachel Cosmos, 09. Our Rachel.

(06:59):
Yeah. Yeah, We.
She belongs to Anila. Yeah, she's ours.
I know, I know. I.
Stated that very clearly in the.Sheet I just want to express how
much we love her and how she should be loved.
I stated it that she was ours. I'm losing money, that's fine.
A makeup effects demo with Emmy Award woman inning Geo Rachel.

(07:20):
I'm I'm going to mess up his last name.
Cragnell. Cragnell.
Croniali. I'm going to tell him that you
said that and he's going to be like, no.
Yeah, he's going to be like thatguy, that guy right there.
Like this. And he went like this when he
said it, Gino, it was so offensive, he said.
Gino Croniali And he'll be like,yes, that's absolutely, 100%

(07:44):
incorrect and get this man a prize because I said things
correctly. Actually, you know what?
Anyway, tickets to that are only$25 and they're still for sale.
Pronouncenames.com. OK, I'm going to continue.

(08:07):
There's also fireside chat with Lenny James and Richie Koster,
which I heard was fantastic lastyear.
Look at the smile on his face. He said.
Lenny, James, Dave, I wish you would just No, it's James.
Wow. I'm going to Google how to
pronounce it. James.
James. OK, there's still tickets to the

(08:42):
Halfway to Halloween party, which is a costume party, which
is very fun. We're doing that again.
Yeah, you need a costume. Late night extra dirty.
Bingo. I don't know why it's extra
dirty, but it is. Right, so the original Dirty
Bingo sold out quite fast, so they added another.
And so they called Extra Dirty Bingo to make the first Dirty

(09:03):
Bingo people jealous. It's at midnight, so it is.
It's a late. It's a late 1.
People were mad at that waffle. House.
Extra dirty Waffle House. I'm sad because I don't want to
share this because if it's stillavailable this week Friday, I
might buy it. Eggs and endings and Easter egg
hunt with Callan McAuliffe. I'm going to butcher it.
I'm going to butcher her last name, Cauliflower, Callum

(09:25):
Mcauliflower and Callum O'Shaughnessy.
Callano, Henran. A casual, fun outdoor hunt led
by Kalin himself. Rotten eggs are filled with
silly collectibles and exclusiveprize currency.
And then there's Walking Dead themed prizes that you can trade

(09:47):
for at the end. So like, you get your, like,
little Walking Dead cash and youbring it to Kalin, and then he
will give you a prize. Yeah.
So it seems like it would be fun.
Was the Halloween party 25 like the Gloyoki?
It is 25 also. The last bit of housekeeping
which completely shifts gears isas we had mentioned during our
WTF Squawking Dead Doing Now live stream that we did, it was

(10:10):
an announcement that we were going to do Dark Winds.
We had mentioned the passing that Frank Hildebrand, which
they actually did an in memoriamof at the end just before the
credits. He worked seasons 2 through 8 of
Fear The Walking Dead, which is why he's intertwined in The
Walking Dead universe. As was stated in the In Memoriam
at the end of the episode, he played two characters in the

(10:31):
show. The older German fellow Hildy
the second-half of that eight episode run.
So it was episode 5 of season. I do not know off the top of my
head. He also played a Pioneer Ranger
in Season 6. Ginny's Rangers is a cool dude.
It was great that we were that The Walking Dead universe was
able to actually put that out there officially.

(10:52):
This is from Deadline, Frank Hildebrand dies, Fear The
Walking Dead and Into the Wild. Producer was 73.
Published on February 8th of 2025.
So a lot of the details about this didn't come out until early
this year, even though he passedin 2024.
Frank Hildebrand, A producer andproduction manager who most
recently worked on Fear The Walking Dead, has died.
He was 73. Hildebrand's family confirmed to

(11:14):
Deadline through a statement from his Rep that he died
following a brief illness on November 21st, a little more
than a week before his 74th birthday.
Born and educated in Zurich, Switzerland, Hildebrand began
his filmmaking career in the UK before moving to Hollywood in
the 1980s, working on such indiefilms as Vice Squad from 1982
and Once Bitten 1985. Wow, Love that.

(11:37):
He then went on to line produce and supervise on such films as
Triumph of the Spirit from 1989,Freeway from 1996, The Hills
Have Eyes The Remake from 2006 Into The Wild from 2007, The
Runaways 2010, Fair Game 2010, and The Tree of Life 2011.
In recent years, Hildebrand served as a producer on the last

(11:58):
seven seasons of AMC's Fear The Walking Dead.
Throughout his career, Hildebrand also held various
heads of production positions atthe Samuel Goldwyn Company, Epic
Entertainment and River Rd. Productions, and he was also a
member of the DGA and PGA. Hildebrand is survived by his
wife Olivier, as well as his daughters Natasha and Brianna

(12:19):
Hildebrand, whom he shares with ex-wife Penny Carlin.
The family of Hildebrand, A passionate water skier and scuba
diver, said donations made to any Ocean Conservancy
organization would be immensely appreciated.
Thank you, Bridget. That's really cool.
So rest in peace, Frank. We'll carry that torch.
We won't direct or do any visuals or any of that.

(12:39):
We'll do. Literally none of the torch.
Do not you like the torch? But we'll like look at it from.
We'll make this crappy podcast in your name excuse.
Yourself, you all right? The title of this episode is
another Ishi lesson. How does the title relate to
this episode of Rachel? There were many lessons or

(13:03):
repeated lessons or things that we have seen over and over
again. Leaving Herschel behind, not
Herschel specifically. Leaving someone behind.
You can't go, it's too dangerous.
But what do they do? They follow, duh.
Don't leave people behind. Bring them with you.
Otherwise terrible things happen.
That's a lesson. I hated that I had to write this

(13:23):
down but not listening to Maggie.
It was another Ishy lesson. She stated very clearly what was
going to happen and it did. Croat knew that they were
coming. He retaliated.
They should have just listened to Maggie.
I hated having to but. Why?
Why is Why do you hate that Maggie's correct?
Admitting that she's right because she just, she just irks

(13:46):
me. I'm just not a Maggie fan.
I don't have. I don't know.
I don't have. Like your kid now?
She's jealous I don't have daughter, man.
Not even. Not even I.
Would have protected Glen there.Was nothing she could do.
But I don't know. I don't know what it is.
Maggie just irks me. Sorry David.

(14:06):
She gives me Morgan vibes. She takes on too much
responsibility. She tries to carry everything
and blame herself for everythingand it's just not a good look.
Like just stop. I had no idea what sentence was
going to come out of your mouth when you said sorry, David.
I was like, where is this going?To be very clear, we we kind of
talked about this in depth throughout the podcast over the

(14:28):
years and we did nail down. Your love of Morgan.
Yes, but also your disdain for Maggie.
We kind of got to like an emotional route.
It's not something I hide from anyone.
But the underlying reasoning is how is it that you can survive
after this happening to Glenn? How are you able to survive?
I wouldn't be able to. Yeah, I guess there's, there's

(14:50):
definitely like a reminder for me when I look at her, obviously
I think of Glenn and I'm like, I'd rather have him than you.
And what was my response to that?
How do you think she feels? Sure, I don't care.
I know, I know. We went through that also.
OK, now I know. It's moving along.
Big issue lesson, Negan and and repeated again.

(15:11):
These are all like repeats of things that we've seen on all of
the all of the shows across the entire universe.
This was a big one because Neganwas on the other end of this
one. He did something bad and it got
someone killed. Bad quote UN quote.
By hesitating and saving Herschel's life, he got Victor
killed. Sounds a lot like Daryl in the
lineup. I was just going to say that.

(15:32):
That's what I just said. We've seen this before.
Oh, OK, it felt like we should say this.
Negan, I'm sorry, I didn't say the obvious thing, but now
Negan's on the other end of that.
Right, he was trying to hide it,but if he had just said I was
not trying to kill Herschel thenshe would have felt differently
about it. But then again, this could have
just been something to scare Negan to.
Another issue left. Something up?

(15:55):
He could have on top of that, here's a couple of things.
So he could have assumed that Damo would be softer about it if
it was a kid because obviously she has this like infatuation
with Herschel and there's like some sort of affection for him
there. So maybe he assumed like, hey,
maybe I can play to her compassion if I'm talking about
a child. He doesn't say that it's

(16:15):
Herschel is because he is tryingto protect Herschel and get
Herschel away from her. That's why he agreed to stay in
Herschel's place. So if he tells her Herschel is
here, that's going to be the endof that.
She's going to she's going to send out the Barossa to get him.
And this is, you know, it's the end of Maggie maybe potentially.

(16:36):
So I don't love it because it resulted in Victor's death.
And people have already pointed this out online about this
episode. This is very much a formula for
Walking Dead. You build up a character enough
for you to have a feeling about them and then immediately upon
you having that feeling they will die.
Very formulaic of Fear The Walking Dead in particular,

(16:56):
especially later seasons as theydid the like weekly introduction
of a new person for you to feel bad for them or gain some sort
of like oh oh I really like thischaracter and then bam they're
dead by that. So.
Yeah, at least in fear. It.
Was the same episode. This was the course of. 2.
Yeah, it was. 2 episodes so, butit was, it was sad.

(17:19):
I happen to actually disagree with both of you.
The whole point of the dama showing the Saturn devouring his
children or his child or his son, that's the name of the
portrait by Goya was to illustrate that something that
Negan had said in The Walking Dead season 10 plus the bonus
episodes to Maggie. He was trying to teach her how
to be a whisperer. They had this tiny little heart

(17:42):
to heart about, WTF, man, Why are you acting like this is
normal? How are we at this point?
Would you have done things differently?
And he said, yeah, of course I would have done things
differently. I would have killed all of you
if I had to repeat this moment again.
And I think this is the illustration of that.
The Dhamma is not like Negan, even though she's pulling a lot
of Negan vibes, even that one moment.

(18:03):
OK, We didn't say this in the last episode.
I don't know if we did, Negan says in the church to
demonstrate everything. He almost says the thing and
then cuts himself off, sort of. He says we're The Walking
manifestation of sin, and we thought he was going to say the
thing. The Walking Dead.
OK, we're bringing up vibes. Everybody would bring up these
vibes, the things that were saidin the old show.
Then we get to the dama saying just one, and who's that?

(18:26):
Just one to make an example of just one Negan to show everybody
just one. But unlike Negan, Victor was
going to die no matter what, forsure.
Didn't matter if he said Herschel didn't matter, saying
it didn't matter. She has no remorse for children.
She doesn't save children. She doesn't like children.
She doesn't give a damn because of that portrait.
That portrait was to illustrate.I have this premonition that my

(18:48):
children will topple me or devout or get rid of me.
Cronus, the Titan in that portrait, I don't care what's in
my way. I don't know what she wants.
I don't know what her motivations are really at all.
But she has no remorse. She has no remorse for children.
Even she heard it was children. She knows that it was Herschel
on the thing, because of course he was the one who lit the
signal fire. We might get into that.
That's fine. We'll go back to that.

(19:09):
If she knows that it's him and she doesn't know it's Jenny, who
was Jenny? I don't know Jenny.
She knows it's Herschel. I saw a kid that was on there.
But look, Victor was going to die anyway.
That was just one for for Negan.That was his.
Negan's just one, the one that would hurt the most, the thing
that kept him alive that last year.
I don't know if it's about Herschel.
I agree with you. I don't think that those are
opposing views. No, not necessarily.

(19:30):
I do agree that Victor was goingto die either way.
She was making an example out ofhim 100%.
So sorry. You said it was a bonus episode
from season 10, it was not. That was in Season 11.
It was in season 11. You're right.
Thank you for it's. Just that it was split into that
three parts, that's why. It had that season 10 vibe too.
I. Know, I know, I know it didn't.
But yeah, that was season 11. I wish that it would have gone

(19:51):
differently and still no, that this was really just to
illustrate that Dama is horrible.
Here's the thing. Prior to this, all you really
know is that she kidnapped this kid and she cut off his pinky
toe. That's enough for me to be like,
this is a weird freaking lady. But in comparison to the
villains we've seen, that's child's play, pun intended.
That's not that big of a deal. We've seen way worse.

(20:13):
We've heard way worse stories that weren't even on screen.
We've been to retold tales that are way worse than this.
This scene alone, yes, it was toget at Negan from a storyteller.
Telling point, but it was also to illustrate to us, the viewer,
that she is horrible, a despicable villain.
She killed him with a pen. Benjamin Pierce's historical

(20:35):
pen. The idea that I'm going to
murder you with history. It's like to this point you're
like, how did you even make it this far?
You look like this tiny, frail woman who can't do anything, and
this was to illustrate that is not the case.
That's the question we asked in the previous episode 2 in a way,
correct. This is a response to our why is
she so muted? Why is she not saying a word?

(20:56):
Which is also effective, by the way.
There's something to be said about doing just enough, just
one just enough to keep people guessing of not only your
motivations, but what your mightdo next.
And I think the portrait paired with she was gonna kill Victor
any for for a demonstration for Negan is a lot.
Which is to say more to come. And when will it be enough?

(21:16):
Work, by the way, the art piece.That was terrifying, especially
when. You're buying painting.
Consider that when that was painted, there was no other
media. This was the visual media was
paintings, and that was a horrifying painting.
The very obvious and literal chemistry lesson that Croat
received how he made the bombs. Sodium and water, Sodium

(21:40):
hydroxide, hydrogen expands. Poem that he like said while it
was happening too. I'm like, oh so suspenseful.
I loved it. I thought it was poetic enough.
It didn't have to be the original Croatian.
No, no. It was really good.
It rhymed and everything. I know he apologized for the
bastardization of it and I was like this.

(22:00):
Actually rhymes. You don't have to apologize for
anything, Jelko. There's one more even more
obvious than that lesson. Victor literally says the line
of this episode was borrowed from what he said about his
lessons as a child learning the violin.
He said the thing that got me through yet another Ishy lesson
was Johann Zabashin Bach. What?

(22:24):
Why are you the way you are, David?
Why? Why would I do?
It's Bach. I love you.
This is Johann Sebastian Bach every time.
Like he just. Don't know.
I use the pinch. I use the pinchy.

(22:48):
OK. Cronia, Ali.
I feel like I'll be Bach just doesn't have the same kick to it
like I'll be Bach. That's the same.
That's a bastardization, you say, Bach, It's not.
You can't. Just say Bach it.
Says Bach with the fingers. OK anyway.
Which is also. Important say the title of the

(23:08):
song. Dave, I want to hear you say NAF
music. Naf to music.
It's not Fleming enough. Nafed, that lesson is actually
also important. What is the thing that you take
with you to survive another moment of horribleness?
And I think there's a lot to be said about that.
We do that every day, don't we? We do our day job to do the

(23:31):
thing that makes the money so that we can spend money here
with all of you. And there in many ways at
various different points of our podcasting journey.
Sometimes it's just like that. Listen, we have other things in
our lives that keep us joyful and joyous and appreciative and
grateful, but this is one of them.
And some of the things that we don't find great and some of the
things that happened to us alongthe way, we have this and it's a

(23:53):
thing that anchors us to the world.
And you could say that about modernism.
This is this goes back to the portrait, to the portrait itself
is a response to the romantics. Remember when I said using the
word romantic is probably not right?
Because romantic means having reverence for a time before and
postmodern is the idea of we're envisioning a future that is to

(24:14):
come and we're making it manifest this beautiful feature,
this beautiful past. Modernism was.
No, this is how things are now. One can say there's nothing
technically wrong with this or stop with the Rose tinted
glasses. This is the way the now.
If you want to change that world, hats off, do it.
But this is what I'm depicting. And I say this because when Goya

(24:34):
painted these paintings, first of all, they weren't paintings.
He had this habit of painting onthe walls of his home a series
of painting called the Black Paintings, and these were just
paintings that he painted over previous paintings with these
depictions of modernist art. Meaning this was what was going
on during the Spanish Inquisition, and that we are
capable of far fiercer and more barbaric things than we probably

(24:58):
considered. This was his response to such
depravity and horribleness that we could do this to another
human being, and that if we could, if Saturn could, he would
have eaten all his children. Because this is to say is
terrible and as flawed as the Greek and Roman gods were.
Saturn is Cronus, the child thatgot away.
Jupiter is Zeus, that was the child who lived.

(25:19):
And technically in Greek and Roman mythology, Jupiter slash
Zeus slays Cronus, his father, and frees the children trapped
in his belly, the Titan's belly,which is Poseidon and Pluto and
Hades, etcetera. Whatever in Hera, of course, he
later married. But the idea is you thought the
gods were bad, the Titans were worse, and so you bring it back

(25:39):
to the Dhamma. You thought Negan was bad, but
Negan had some mercy. Negan had an idea of yeah, I may
use force to get people in line and heavy as the head that wears
a crown. And maybe I am top down and
maybe I'm the only one who couldsolve this.
Sounds like Rick, right? Or Morgan, whatever, I don't
know. However, he didn't go that far.
Titan Dhamma, she will go that far.

(26:02):
She will burn it all. I would kill them all.
This is my response. This goes back to Negan.
I would have killed them all. If I had to do it over again, I
would killed you all. That's the Dhamma, that's the
response. I just love this.
To set the table to the portraitis such a great addition.
Let's show don't tell. Even though the Dhamma did say
little, but little goes a long way with the portrait.
So you're considering the the army that she has below her as

(26:25):
all of her children and she would kill all of her army?
Are you relating her to Saturn as she would kill all of?
Anything that threatens to unseat her or kill her or what
not. I took it as not the army, but
her like leaders, Negan Croat, like these men who are higher up
that she is willing to state like I, you mean nothing to me

(26:48):
in the grand scheme of this. If you're going to cause me
because she brings this up with Victor that she keeps
reiterating this example of not falling back to the past is what
she keeps talking about. She doesn't want the past to be
where they're headed. That's a waste of everyone's
time. So if they drag her back to past
sentiments like women and children first, then she will

(27:12):
take care of whatever she has to.
She will get rid of you. She will eat her own children in
order to move past the past. The sentiment is so dead on, but
even on the base layer, even on the literal layer, Negan, he saw
children had pity on them. Maybe not at first.
You know, let's take The WalkingDead early on aside.
They established later on that Negan doesn't like to the idea

(27:33):
of killing children. They're a future.
People are a resource. They brought that out.
They also folded that in as timewent on.
Why didn't Egan do what he did? He didn't do it to rule over
people and have fun with them. No, he was trying to civilize in
his own way, something to bring something back, to have some
sort of order. I don't think that Dhamma wants

(27:53):
any of that. I don't think she cares about
order. Order is the old way.
This is why I said I don't know what she wants technically, but
I know she doesn't want what was.
I know she was doesn't want order.
It's almost like what she preaches is anarchy, but she
wants to be in charge of it. Like, what is that?
Because that's not anarchy, but that has to be some sort of
belief system. It's like a conductor, because

(28:14):
the conductor is merely the person that keeps the time of
the orchestra. But you could say that he leads
the orchestra, but they're the ones playing the instruments.
So they're really kind of in charge.
And it's the closest I can come to capitulating to what you just
said. They're the music makers.
She's just giving them permission and keeping the time
of the peace. We had theater, now we're going

(28:35):
to music. It's kind of what's.
Happening, it's too. Much.
I mean, I don't know. Hey, we're here.
Why not? Maybe she's The Walking
manifestation of sin. Maybe she's The Walking Dead.
But in a perverse form, be the person you were meant to be.
I'm not holding you back. In fact, here are all the tools
with which you can do that. I'm going to empower you.
And what if you take that to an extreme?
What if you discard all the niceties and the rules and the

(28:56):
things we used to do to hold society together?
We all respect individual rights.
We, we have this idea that we are to respect the individual as
a person. Your rights extend up to my
nose. That idea, anything that you do
that inhibits my individuality should be frowned upon.
But the Dom is not about any of that.
I don't care if you try to infringe on my individuality, my

(29:16):
my individuality will punch you in the face.
It's all about me, me, me. And if another me tries to get
in your face about his own meanness or her meanness, it is
kind of all about anarchy. If everything is about the
individual rather than some semblance of a group mentality
or group organization or civility or some base layer of
rules and what happens? Complete and total anarchy and

(29:37):
chaos. Maybe that's what she wants.
I had a completely different interpretation of this and I can
see all of those points when I saw the scene with Saturn eating
his children. She's talking to Negan and the
Croat Crowat. Where did that come from?
As she's describing what it is, she's like taken by it, right?

(29:57):
And like, ooh, I'm all into thispainting but I saw it as a
foreshadowing. I think she's going to kill the
Croat. I'm not.
I agree, actually. I would also say it's kind of
what Bridget was saying, taking all the niceties and things that
we take for granted, the things that women, children first, that
sort of thing. Similar to the portrait, you as
a parent would ideally want to have your children flourish.

(30:19):
The It's all about passing on what you have to your children.
But that's the opposite of what this painting conveys.
Exactly this is my point. Right, so.
Pronis was all about himself, tothe point where no, don't take
my glory. I, this is all for me.
I live forever. You don't.
You don't take me down. I take you down.
I don't care about you. I don't care that you're my

(30:39):
child. Goes a little bit with Maggie
Herschel. Yeah.
Well, you were talking about what does she want, and I'm
wondering if what she wants is to ascend to sort of a position
of being a Titan or a God, sinceshe's using that as an example.
And how does she attain that A. 100%.
Her as a legend, like as an idea.

(31:03):
That's such a Walking Dead thing, right?
That legacy, the term like this concept of legacy, what are you
leaving behind? Cronus was a Titan, the parents
of the. Classical gods.
Maybe she's trying to bring her followers up to that position.
You are Zeus, that's why she gave him the electric that he's
Zeus with the Thunderbolt. That is so cool.

(31:28):
Yes, What's the Croat? I love that though.
Who had the gift of gab? It could be Vulcan.
Which is a pastor. Of the Underworld, which is the
master of the methane underground.
She doesn't want to go back to the old ways, but yet she's
building something that's based on ancient mythology.
On something that was oh. She's going so far back.

(31:51):
Isn't that a great foil for Victor, who passed because it
was violently murdered? Violently murdered because what
Bach was all about was fusing what was into something new and
harmonious. And he did do something
different, but he took what was and fused it into this new
language that one could inarguably was different new for

(32:14):
some people. People didn't like it.
Also, please play what was. And now of course, nothing is
original. So she's doing the same thing,
except the changes that Cronus. She is still around to guide
those children. Also not afraid to eat them
probably. Maybe there's a foreshadowing
there, I don't know. I want to know what made you

(32:35):
cry. Oh, great.
OK. I also want to know that
because. I did not get.
Nothing about this got me like emotional.
Same, same. So I'm very curious.
Was it Victor playing the the song right before he was killed?
No. Because that was emotional.
That was beautiful. I mean, that's why it was I
like, didn't cry or anything, but I was like, man, that is
really beautiful. I actually cried the first time

(32:56):
he played that piece for Negan in the cell.
Let me set the stage a little bit because first of all,
everything about that scene is painted so well.
It's a continuation of the last episode.
Negan goes back to his cell, tosses Lucille on the floor, and
you see that he's been there since he delivered his Sermon on
the Mount, if you will, to all the factions in New York City.
He's like Herschel in this episode, just completely shut

(33:18):
off or in his own head. Here we are again, and I don't
want to be here again. I want to be Bach.
I went in his own way, and nothing's reaching him, nothing
at all. It brought me back to him being
in the cell in Season 9 and 10. And then I thought to myself,
this episode gave me a concertedfeeling about how it must have
been for him in his cell and that in a way it saved him.

(33:39):
And then you think of who came to visit him in that cell.
And of course there was Gabriel.And then I thought of, and then
I thought of Carl and how he wasn't there.
And I've made it very clear how I felt about Carl's death, how I
couldn't connect with it on the show.
But Victor would have been the same age as Carl.

(34:03):
I'm just thinking because 17 years later.
And then there's what Victor said.
He's making a concerted effort to reach him.
He's this life support for Negan.
This whole time he was in a cell.
He's playing music to give him comfort, not knowing about Annie
and Joshua at all. But here's something to help you
pass the time to keep your mind focused on something beautiful

(34:23):
in a Dark World. And then Victor tells him about
his lessons and what pissed him off about them.
It's what he was trained to do the lessons what his father
expected of him to play Rick Carl.
And then there's what he held onto.
And Carl also held on to I bigger principles.
What were those principles? Fighting everything else along

(34:46):
the way, doing what he was supposed to do, but also getting
through that lesson just to findSadiq.
This idea of let's bring people in, let's hope for more.
Carl was fighting for a new way of living which.
Is. What essentially Bach is
representative of was this fusion forward.
Right, let's take all the lessons, fuse them and make

(35:09):
something new and beautiful, which is a little column A,
little column B, mash into column.
CI didn't even cry. Then they set the stage.
They set the huge banquet that he can talks about later.
Yeah, when they're doing the setting up the bombs, they set
the table visually and narratively, and then he plays
the piece. Yeah, I fell apart.

(35:31):
I was tearing up. I was just bawling because all
of that just came to the front like it should have when I first
saw that. And I just couldn't stop.
I just, I just kept going and I couldn't stop.
And it wasn't even the second time around.
But I just couldn't, I just couldn't, I couldn't stop.
It was it was beautiful. Objectively speaking, I don't, I

(35:53):
don't know how you felt about the piece, but it was the idea
of the fusion of the of the music and how it was totally
different from everything that he had just played as an
example. And I didn't even look into
those pieces. I didn't care about this pieces
pieces. I just felt like, again, like
when I said in the last episode they were doing Season 9 vibes
and they came into this episode.Now, I don't know who's in

(36:14):
charge of all this. And I got the vibes that I
should have gotten when Carl passed and all the things that
he represented that I didn't getthe first time around and that
he would have been his age and that he played such beautiful
music and that Carl didn't get the chance.
I feel like Dave now. Maybe you should go back and
rewatch season 9 now that this like hit for you because we all

(36:36):
went through this when we first watched it.
You needed like space from it tosee it for what it was because
even though people will tell you, that's when they stopped
watching. The ones who were left. 2nd to I
stopped watching with the lineupis I stopped watching when Carl
died. That's the other reason that
fans left the show. Chandler just bought that house

(36:57):
in Georgia. Like he wasn't expecting it
either right? Like he thought he was the
future of the show because he isthe future of the comic.
That was really frustrating to him, I'm sure, and tons of other
people, but when I go back and watch that now, that is one of
the most beautiful scenes are surrounding his death.
It is beautiful storytelling. I understand that you might not

(37:19):
agree with the choices that weremade, but it is beautiful
storytelling and I love that youwere able to see this and
connect it back to that. Don't make the mistake.
I at the time I had chosen to relay or Telegraph how I felt
about that particular part wherehe does die and how it I wished
it'd affect me more. Maybe it was the season was too

(37:41):
busy or that was season 8, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was season 8 and they held it over from the mid season
and he dies in the mid season premiere.
So that that was the other thingabout that.
But make no mistake, I the wholepoint of us getting together to
talk about all this was because I wanted to accentuate the
positive and not dwell on the negative because there was no
point to that. There was too much good stuff
going on for me to focus on thatone piece.

(38:03):
But having had the scene and then it's like they killed Carl
in front of Negan. Just I love your connection to
this because I I didn't put thattogether.
Even you even you stating he is roughly the age that Carl would
be now if Carl lived is like, oh, it hits.
It hits differently now because Victor was a good character
again, But I'm I'm becoming kindof desensitized to this concept

(38:27):
of like, hey, you like this person, we'll surprise they're
going to die because that's whatwe do.
A lot of The Highwaymen, that's the one that like got punched me
probably the hardest where I waslike, how dare you do this to
me? Why do you make me like these
people to just kill them? Hearing it from your perspective
makes it more. I want to go back and rewatch
the episode now. Have I ever said that for Dead
City? Like I want to go back and

(38:49):
rewatch this now because you gotso much out of it and then I
want to see it through that lens.
I think that's really cool. This episode, I was so good I
didn't realize it was over. When the Frank Hildebrand thing
came up, I was like, what? Like I didn't realize it'd have
been 45 minutes already. I went through a journey for
this thing to be over. Maybe this is what they did last

(39:11):
week and there's more after this.
Maybe I'm really bad at I did leave it on ages but I don't
know how old I even think Victorwas.
I mean, if I had to take a guess, would you say Chandler
Riggs was about 6:00 or 8:00 when he was first on the show,
the show? Started.
He was supposed to be. 10. 1013 or 14 when he died.

(39:34):
I think closer to like 14. Let's let's use a round Number
like 10 even. Because I don't know, he's not
that old. Like according to like the
timeline, he was not supposed tobe that old.
Add 17. Years to whatever you think.
Correct. So this is interesting that Dave
says this because I did think about his age because they talk
about his dad forcing him to practice violin and all I could
think was he's so good. How old was he when the fall

(39:57):
happened? Or was he practicing from like
age 4? You know, because there are some
families like. Could have been very young.
Is he like a child prodigy? Were they like getting him to
learn early or was he in like his mid to late 20s?
And that's kind of where I pinpoint him.
I was like, I was like maybe like mid late 20s.
I could see he would be about Carl's age.
Worst case, he was just touching30 on either side of the 30.

(40:20):
Worst highest case, obviously a young man.
He just grew a neckbeard. This is an ethnic thing.
Obviously nothing was manicured.It's the apocalypse, who who
cares? Well, thank you for not having
it lined up during the apocalypse, because it's.
Like a little lined right? When they are so crispy lined
I'm like dude this is your breaking feeling.

(40:41):
Morgan, you can't look gorgeous all the time.
Please stop please with your. Living the apocalypse, I can't
handle it. And the rarity of having just a
person who has this compassion, they added these scenes where
he's Negan telling his stories and he's joining in.
It's not full throated, but he'slike, oh, that's a cool story,
You know, so there is a bit of ahe's a normal person.

(41:01):
He's not this St. or canonized, you know, like where you see
some people like, no, I wouldn'tlaugh at that.
No, I'm supposed to be this. No, there's a naturalness to his
interactions with other people. But when he's with Negan alone
in his cell, he sees the suffering.
He sees what he's going through.He sees that he's stuck.
And he puts all of the that world aside and gives him this
slice of well, here, we're here.Now let me give you this so you

(41:24):
can survive another issue lessonout of all the issue lessons
you've had throughout the year. As we're talking about this,
Dave, and you're, you're correlating it back to like
seasons 8910, The Walking Dead to some degree.
Isn't this supposed to evoke memories of Judith also visiting
the cell and being outside of itand distracting him with math

(41:46):
problems and conversations aboutother things?
So that's what the Kroat, That'swhat the Kroat represents.
I'm kidding. It's dumb.
It's totally dumb. It's like, oh, here's.
The chemistry lesson? I am Judith.
He's in like at a Judith costume.
Sorry, I have to throw it in there just to throw me off a
little. Bit someone photoshopped that.
Jelko Ivanic as Judith. Sure, you're supposed to think

(42:07):
of Judith. But there's so many people who,
like you said, fell off. And what I think is interesting
is that I finally felt robbed, or the degree to which I was
robbed of that interaction of Carl in the cell with Negan.
And I hadn't felt that ever. To your point, I'm capitulating
to what you were saying. I didn't feel robbed.
I didn't express the fact that Ifelt like, OK, life move, let's

(42:30):
erase the idea of comic Carl, because it's not what I'm used
to anyway. I had heard about it, hadn't
seen it, didn't care about it necessarily.
It was hard to lose that dream. Just of course I get the the
show isn't going to follow the comic and I've always been a
really big advocate of like it shouldn't because then it's just
telling the same story over again.
And that's dumb. But it was hard to let that go

(42:52):
because he had he carried a little piece of everyone with
him. So like at the end, comic book
Carl had all these different weapons and he's got the eye
patch and he's like wearing his dad's hat and there's all of
these different things that you're like, oh, these he's
carrying literally pieces of thepeople that he loved with him.
And we don't see enough of that in the show because that's
always everyone's complaint as like, does Judith know about

(43:16):
Tyrese? Like, does Judith know about all
these people who helped her get to where she is?
And we can assume that that's happening off screen.
She mentioned it in the penultimate or the no the actual
season finale. We're not getting the
gratification of knowing that she knows, like we're not
getting to see that. And so losing, seeing the
physical representation of Carl carrying all of these people

(43:39):
with him, it hit. And it was after a time of
already loss, right? Like we were just finally
recovering. Everybody was kind of stumbling
back out of the dark of losing Glenn and Abraham in the same
episode. So we were like, OK, like, all
right, we're back on track. It's OK, everything's going to
be fine. And then all of a sudden we lose
him. And then it's like, oh, and then
the Pike scene happens. Like not even long.

(44:01):
After it's like it's. Just like Constant.
But that's why we love this show, right?
Because it's terrifically sad. Yeah, we love getting hurt over
and over again. I find it really cool that they
were able to give me that the thing that I didn't get the
first time around, in a visual, representative way.
What? How how it could have.
Let's get some emotions on how we feel about Nirvayez.

(44:21):
This is not exclusive to this show either.
This is every show, every movie,everything.
Why do you not listen to the person who has been where you
are going? I get you don't trust Maggie.
She's a stranger, blah blah blah.
She's trying to stop you from going because she doesn't really
want to go, but she knows thingsabout this place that you don't

(44:42):
because you have not been there.You don't have to trust her, but
hear her out and maybe take someof what she's saying into
account. It's not just this show, every
show and movie does it. But like, it's very annoying and
irritating. You're supposed to be a leader
and a real leader takes advice and listens to what other people
have to say, especially people that know more than they do

(45:05):
about a subject. She knows more about New York
than they do. She's been around the Crow app.
She knows kind of what's going down.
It just fries me every time. I'm like, you deserve all your
people to get blown up because you didn't listen.
And they did. To be.
Fair. It's pretty realistic.
Instead of appealing to the world as it is, she appeals to

(45:25):
authority. And the other thing is you're
trying to sneak over there and yet you have like this huge
blaring light on the front of your boat.
I thought that too. I was like why are they lit up
like the 4th of July? Turn that light off.
What are you doing? If you were in the dark, they
couldn't have spotted you and aimed their Walker cannons at

(45:46):
you. Well, they also made the mistake
of picking a bright white boat. You should have painted it
black, or I'm sorry, Gray, because that's what submarines
did on the side. The decking was black so that it
looked invisible from the top. It was Gray from the side
because that would blend in withthe nighttime skyline.
Didn't they like row across the river in a bucket last season or

(46:06):
something? I mean, it was like a cooler
cooler. No, it was a park trap can like
one of those plastic blue like park trash cans.
Do you know talking like the barrels?
He was in like a like a Coleman cooler.
It was a cooler. It was Jimmy went in a trash
can. In the crash trash can, Yeah,
that's right, yeah. The other thing that really
bothers me is like, they have all this Old West costuming

(46:28):
going on. Where are they getting these
costumes for them to all look like they're in?
Ginny made them. Civil War.
Right, they got them from Texas.It looks like they went to
Virginia to like a military museum.
It took all the Confederate uniforms.
There was a reenactment happening.
Yeah, Jenny's Pioneers had a similar style, but these guys,

(46:50):
like, actually match, right? Well, I mean, consider the fact
that they're mostly in denim anddenim is the idea of the denim
was about the gold rush and it was about invented by Levi
Strauss. And they basically just took
what their tents were made of, this interwoven denim material,
and just put them on everything and mix that with leatherworks,
you've got their outfits. So hot in those outfits.

(47:14):
It's cold at the time though yousaw, I think it was filming or
at least the time period in which they travelled.
I think it was still fall. Maybe it was a year later for.
Filming. Oh, I think that we just think
back to when they filmed the knowledge Hildebrand until,
well, it did take them two yearsto come out with this episode.
So it could have been a episode or not, or not this episode,

(47:37):
this season, the season so. Do you think that Benjamin
Pierce is an homage to Hawkeye? Hawkeye from.
From Mash. Mash, whose name is Benjamin
Franklin Pierce. It's even spelled the same
according to captions. Are the characters in any way
similar? I don't know anything about

(47:57):
MASH. He'd be more akin to radar.
You know what? Charity you should.
Look into that more and see if there are any similarities that
merge. The only one I can think of
offhand is that Hawkeye did chronicle a lot of his
happenings and adventures, like in letters and video to his dad
throughout the show. Maybe one of the writers or a

(48:20):
fan of MASH? Why not?
Pierce is also a historical nametoo.
I think it was Franklin Pierce, actually.
Franklin Pierce was the president.
There. Well, there you go.
If the audience has any more input into the similarities, I
would highly encourage comments in our YouTube video, Spotify,
and even in ratethispodcast.com/walkingdead.
Be really cool if you had some thoughts on that.

(48:41):
But let me go back to nervise a little bit.
I said I mentioned appeal to authority, but it's the idea
that if you have the run at the table and didn't the Saviors
also have the run at the table no matter what Rick did?
Isn't that why Maggie was very insistent with Armstrong?
I've seen this tape play out. If you play back the tape from
The Walking Dead. We were in that RV Rick was

(49:02):
trying to get me medical attention because I was having
some sort of hyperclampsia or something, and he was going
around. They in every turn they made,
there was a roadblock with Saviors on them.
She's replaying that tape in herhead and she's telling Armstrong
in the only way that she can. I don't know if I would have
done a better job than she did. This doesn't end well.
You think that you have the nuts, you haven't met these
people and they have the Croat again.

(49:23):
I guess you're out of your depth.
You may have the numbers, you may have strategy, you may think
you're smart, you're not smarterthan this and this is their
turf. Did you not get those vibes when
she was pleading with Armstrong that this is the savior's again?
Yes and no. Sorry, New Babylon Federation
was playing the part of the Savior's.
They have that same mentality like, oh, we can do anything.
But then also let's take the Rick group thing.

(49:45):
You're being like Rick's group, the group that I was a part of,
and you're trying to best this new Negan and you're not going
to be able to. This is their turf.
They have the run of the party. You may be adept.
You're not that adept. I was trying to make sense of
what you were saying with what Iwas going to say, and then I
realized that you were thinking something completely different,

(50:06):
and then what I was going to saywasn't going to make sense at
all. So then I just erased the
thought. What were you thinking?
Just just for the argument's sake.
Well, I thought you were pointing out that that the Croat
and the people in Manhattan, Manhattan, right, they're all
on, are the saviors, not the new, that new Babylon are the
saviors. It's like the saviors are
meeting the saviors only. I mean, kind of except I, I feel

(50:27):
like everyone on Manhattan is, Imean, more like the saviors in a
lot of, in a lot of ways. But what I was going to point
out is Maggie doesn't know that Negan is working with them.
She knows that at one time Croatdid work with Negan.
So it's it's quite possible he would adopt A lot of his ways.
And she got to see some of that.He knows that this works, so

(50:50):
he's going to do that. I wasn't thinking at all that
New Babylon was anything like the Saviors.
They if anything, they remind memore of Rick.
Like right, Like we can do anything if we're all together.
Ting like calm down. So there's a little of column A
and little column B because on the one hand, yes, it is like

(51:10):
Rick's group. Absolutely.
On the other hand, imagine if you had a fusion like Bach where
it's you're like Rick's group. You think you can do
Tranquillitus ordinance by conquering and making peace.
And isn't that what they did with Jason Ornell and they hung
him up to kind of make an example of just one, right?
To make it an example. There's a little saviorism

(51:31):
there, too. Kind.
Of except he broke the law. They're upholding the law.
This wasn't just a random pick. This was, of course, enforcing
the law he broke. I mean, it's.
And all I'm saying is that there's some meganisms to the
New Babylon Federation in that they have to do things this way

(51:51):
in order to get people to fall in line.
Just one, but we'll do with laws.
We'll back it with Code 32. You know what I mean?
It's the same thing, only you'reputting a framework underneath
it to make it seem like you're legitimate.
Because even when Nirvaeus says it, it's the law.
Insubordination. Excuse me, what?
What is this? What are these random laws that
are actually probably written down?

(52:12):
I say all this only to say they've been like the savers
guys, it's been 17 years since the fall PDI, right?
You said it earlier before the episode started, Sharon, do you
said it was? Public display of infection. 17
post public display of infection, right?
They've made it this long, and why wouldn't they think that
they could do whatever they wanted because they survived

(52:33):
this long? So of course they have the run
of the table. They think they can do anything
because they've they've earned that right.
But they forgot hell is other people, and they haven't met the
Saviors yet. The real ones, not the ones
they're trying to be. You originally asked what our
feelings were on Nirvias and I have a really hard time because

(52:54):
I love. Tasha Polanco.
I love Dasha Polanco and I thinkshe is absolutely killing this
character. Now the character is kind of a
she's not supposed to be likableand she's just doing a
phenomenal job, but some twisted, dark part of me just
wants to see more of her. I She's killing it.

(53:16):
I love how much I hate this character and she's doing a
phenomenal job at it. I.
Have two questions equally to capitulate your feelings about
this character. I highly enjoyed her and the
rest of NBF New Babylon Federation completely beaten
down the streets of Manhattan. Maggie's the only one who has
has her head on a swivel. She's all together.

(53:38):
She knows the story. She knows she's been out there
in the wild with Herschel. She knows what's up.
Everybody else is like I. Loved how frazzled they all
look. Like especially their.
Hair was like all wild and like they were, you know, they're
like. And their eyes is like.
On her side. Like this with my gold tooth.

(53:59):
Maggie's like we need to leave and they all just kind of sit
there like what we just. Experienced a loss.
Excuse me? I know what loss is.
And this is it can get worse, OK?
It can get really like my husband worse.
If they had just listened to Maggie or turned the light off
on their boat then they probablywouldn't be in that situation.
So and then we panned to Maggie and she has her.

(54:20):
Is she lessened together? Her hair is blown dried about
the apocalypse and everybody looks good.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that second question.
Choose A You didn't. Even ask a question.
How satisfied did you feel seeing that you're expressing it
now? That's fine.
Oh, second question, gut check. Who does Nervaise remind you of
from the Saviors if just go withyour first thought?

(54:43):
Simon. We did it.
Yeah, we did it. Yep.
Touchdown, touchdown, the crowd goes.
We. Did it, he said.
We did it. We got.
That we have the football. You threw the pass and I caught
it. Yeah, exactly.
I was going to say Femininegan. But no mercy, remember, Simon

(55:04):
was the guy who was just like Oceanside, and you can match
that with the dama in a way thatmodernism.
This is the way things are and Idon't care.
Starting with Herschel. Hipsters.
He killed all of them. He well, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's right. That's right.
That's right. Yeah.
Irvise. Cool.
I'm still waiting to find out a little bit more about the
character though. She's doing what she thinks is

(55:26):
right. I'm upholding the law.
This is the law. You broke the law.
But where do you really stand? Like what's really going on?
Does she enjoy it? Taught her follow the law,
follow the law. When Maggie punched her, I went,
I went, oh, oh, she's had so much worse.
That was a love tap. The other thing the show likes

(55:48):
to do is to take a carriage thatyou don't like and then flip
them around as to why you maybe don't like them.
But. That's why I'm you.
Can empathize with the characterand say, well I understand why
they're doing what they're doing.
Maybe that's what I'm waiting for is that.
I think that's why I was thankful for that.
Soon you see her like on her side.
She did look very bedraggled andlike oh man I messed up.

(56:10):
She was losing weight for her gun and her gun wasn't there.
I was like haha. Jenny's got.
It yeah, that was scary. Bridget, what do you think in
Irvias? I find her annoying.
She's very frustrating to me. She deserves that punch in the
face so badly. The character is being played

(56:30):
well because I am feeling very frustrated by her and I would
like to hit her. So I know that like Dodge is
doing a great job. I just wish that Dodge's
character was likable because I want to like her.
Do you think they will eventually show us something to
make her more likable? I think they'll have to.
Either they do that or she's killed off.

(56:51):
Like right? It's like one or the other.
I'm wondering if they even want this to be a likable character,
because she doesn't have to be. She doesn't have to be.
I'm assuming because they chose who they did to play her.
I'm basing this off of the actress, right?
You chose this person and so I'massuming you want us to like
this character eventually. I'm making a lot of assumptions.

(57:12):
Well, that's that's fair. You are.
But it's OK because if they makesense, I think that The Walking
Dead's whole thing is often to show two sides of the same
person to change our perspective.
And what an apartment show this would be to do that.
Because this is the show where we're focusing on the fact that
Negan really was a scumbag of a person.

(57:32):
I'm not denying he may not have done the deed in the way that
people conventionally think in terms of his many wives, but
coercion is just as bad because that's always the defense for
Negan. It's like, well, you didn't
really do it, but he did becausehe coerced by threatening their
loved ones if they did not participate in intimate acts

(57:56):
with him. We're just that's that's what
I'm going to say. Is he a likable scumbag Despite
that? Weirdly, 100%.
He's incredibly likable. You're like, I don't understand
why I like him. He's not a good guy, but he's
funny. Jeffrey Dean Morgan can really
sell anything, as it turns out. So.
So we love him. Some people just like bad guys

(58:16):
because there are people out there that are 100% behind Darth
Vader and the Emperor. It's just fun to like the bad
guy. I think that this show choosing
to do that makes a lot of sense for us.
Now, again, I don't know that that's the plan.
I don't know that that's where they'll go with Josh's character
might just be like born to haterand that's it.
But it could go in the directionthat, hey, we're going to see

(58:38):
another side or we're going to get this character fleshed out a
little bit more so that you can see the other side and again,
meet a character, character thatnot everyone likes, especially
initially, but then you feel something for them later.
Same thing with Maggie. People didn't like Maggie at the
beginning either. Maggie was really mean to Glenn.
Dave, I don't know, you're making a lot of faces, but like

(58:59):
Maggie was not a super liked character at the beginning.
I don't know if you remember theegg on his head, the doing it
with him in a pharmacy and then be like, don't talk to me.
Like there were a lot of people that were like, Maggie is so
rude because this. Is my dating life.
This is literally my dating life.
It's the women I meet, by the way.
I got my head and the whole thing.
I liked her 'cause she was a country girl and she and she was
on the farm. So I was like, yeah, great, love

(59:20):
it. But she's terse, I guess, is the
word I would use to describe herat the beginning.
Something about her is very grating.
She's a young, pretty, insensitive girl.
At the beginning, teenager. Who grows up into a woman who
understands things teenage early20s and.
Emotionally calling 20. 2. Right.
What I'll just say about that specifically, the one thing that

(59:43):
I valued from Maggie early on isit's kind of like a lesson that
I learned about people is that you don't automatically deserve
to know anything about me or youdon't deserve to know certain
things about me right away. It's not deserve it's I don't
owe it to you. That's kind of what I mean.
Yes, thank you for cleaning thatup.
Yes, that's exactly it. And I, I respected that.
You haven't earned that part of me yet.

(01:00:04):
In the fact that Glenn graduallyearned that was great.
I agree if you know about Glenn in the comic book sense, this is
just like who he is. Like he's like oh pretty girl
and he like and he just is like,I'll do anything for you, pretty
girl. So like he didn't know anything
about her. He is isn't right either in that
situation, but we had grown to love Glenn already and she was

(01:00:28):
new, so it was like easy to be like, I don't know how I feel
about that now. She wins this over very quickly.
By the end of that first half ofthe season, you're like, you
want them to be together, so it's not like it's prolonged.
When she rode in on the horse toget Lori and she saved them,
that was where she got me. I was like, Yup, she's awesome.
Showing a mirror to Glenn, but in her own way.
She was the part of Glenn that was missing.

(01:00:49):
He wouldn't stand up for himself.
He was willing to just do all ofthe things that the group was
asking him to. And she had to be the stern one
to like put her foot down and say you should care more about
yourself. Yeah, Walker bait.
Then you do yeah, Walker bait. Exactly.
It was good character growth, but this show just really is
showcasing a lot of like these are characters that people don't
initially love or like maybe. And then also, even if you did

(01:01:13):
like Maggie at the very beginning, because I'm sure some
people did, there are people that do not like Maggie now.
True. It's worth touching on that in
every episode, I suppose. Unfortunately, only having a six
episode season makes it much more difficult to flesh.
Well it's 8 characters season. Oh.
It's 8. It's 8.
Season 8, OK. That's still not enough.
It's still not enough. Still not a lot, yeah.

(01:01:34):
Really flesh characters out and get to know them.
That's why you're getting 6 at the beginning because they're
like, well, we'll test it out with six.
Apparently that's Amcs magic number.
Now we got 8, which means that they felt comfortable enough
that they're like, you have a little bit more, but it's only
8, which is kind of a weird number to pick.
I'm not sure why they landed on that.
Half of 16, but some. People, yeah, some people are
saying like even if you had 12, like if you just doubled the

(01:01:57):
six, it would be better. I'm not complaining.
Listen, they we have this universe to kind of front load a
lot of things when it comes to characters and especially if
you're. Going to do character
development that has to happen. 100% because you can graph that
on to what we know about the universe at large or characters
that we've learned to love and how all the similarities between
them. Season 9 vibes.
Season 10 vibes. Wish Carl was here.

(01:02:18):
Cry, Cry, Cry. It's 8:00 and I have to say
goodnight, but I want to leave you with this.
I find it interesting and questionable.
Maybe it's just my eyes playing tricks on me, but Novaya's is
getting more screen time than our general bird.
Well, is General Bird dead? Because I'm pretty sure she's
dead. I thought I saw her die, and

(01:02:39):
then I thought I saw her. She was in that shot at the end.
Yeah. Why?
Did she go? Did she?
Not die. Yeah, I thought she got blown
up. She would.
Definitely make sure she was on the boat.
In my notes it says bird pinata.I mean, what?
But then she was in that shot atthe end, I guess, right?
Yeah, we saw the same thing. She's had almost her screen time
than Pearly and he was in the first season.

(01:03:01):
No, no. And we got a lot of pearly in
the last episode. Amongst yourself.
Wow, you just dropped a good nugget, Rachel.
Don't be Mother's Day, Rachel. All right.
Good night you guys. Happy mother.
'S day. Bye, Rachel.
Bye bye. Pull up that last scene because
I was. I think I'm right about that.
OK. Well, you said it too though,
right? No, I thought she was dead.
I. Always think people are dead,
Bridget. It's really weird.

(01:03:21):
It's really. I don't like it.
I wish she was. I did see a lot of discourse
about this. Not discourse, but like just a
lot of discussion back and forthonline.
I only want to touch on two morethings in terms of Nervais.
You said a lot of things about Walking Dead does a great job of
showing you the other side of somebody who's absolutely
horrible. In my opinion, though, sometimes
a person has an experience or isa person of a certain

(01:03:42):
background. I think of Merle when I talk of
this and how Merle just was ableto do more of the same after the
apocalypse. He just became his true self,
which is always his crappy self that he always was.
Maybe he held back a little bit,but whatever.
And he has his reasons. His father beating the kids and
all the time him not stepping innearly as much as Darrell

(01:04:02):
thought he could have, but he did.
When it comes to Nirvayez, maybelife taught her both before and
after the apocalypse a certain lesson that she just carried
into the post zombie apocalypse.She's probably just as horrible
before as she is now. The thing is about horrible
people is that you can make themgood.
If you consider the Axiom people, our resource now that

(01:04:23):
Narvaez has had this experience of being crazily wrong and not
knowing who she is anymore or not knowing what she's supposed
to be, if you point the canons like our group did with Merle,
you can point that Nirvaya's Canon at the intended group.
So it doesn't make her necessarily a good person, but
if she's on the right side, quote, UN quote, you can
leverage that capability in yourfavor.

(01:04:45):
If she's going to manifest angerand violence directed at the
people you wanted against, not the people that you're with.
Exactly, for better or worse, because we don't know who's
better or worse than is MB FI mean.
Technically it is MBF. We kind of like our anarchistic
society in Manhattan, I think. Sharon, you weren't there, but
did you feel the same way? Yeah, they were fun.
In the last episode, you guys were talking about groups not

(01:05:07):
being able to get together unless they were killing each
other. But Native American tribes would
often all come together at one spot at a particular time of
year, even if they were warring nations, to trade and sometimes
intermarry and stuff like that. It is a possibility if you're
all coming together for mutual benefit, because you do have to

(01:05:28):
have people to trade with. You have to have other people to
intermarry with. You can't have everybody from
the same team pool. It is historically feasible that
groups like this can't come together, but then it is also
historically feasible that thesegroups come together and you
have somebody like the DAMO who's going to try to wipe all
the other ones out. I love that.
First of all, that was brilliant.
This is one of the things you actually see in Echo from

(01:05:50):
Marvel. One of the first scenes is that
kind of meeting ground, and theyhave competition to kind of
sweat out some of their disagreements.
Instead of warring with each other, they would have these
games that they would play and that's how they would win.
Rather than fighting wars, they would compete against one
another. And whoever won got to the thing
that they were disgruntled aboutand that would be that.
I loved that part of the becauseit was very uniquely native.

(01:06:13):
And having that transcribed in my brain now about Manhattan
gives me a road map into maybe the Damas thinking that you can
have. By the way, if you talk about
Season 9 vibes, do you remember the the beginning of Season 9
and Rick's new vision and building the bridge?
And Carol has this conversation with Darrell about, I wish it
was like the old days. I wish it was just us out on the
road again, US against the world.

(01:06:34):
Isn't that in some sense, the Manhattan contingent, just
different tribes trying to make it on their own, doing their
thing? Isn't this Daryl's vision and
how, for better or worse, whether he was right or wrong?
Sometimes you feel that this farin The Walking Dead universe,
oh, it can't be about a big bed and you have to defeat the big
bed, do it all over again. I was touching on that.

(01:06:54):
But just like this season of TheWalking Dead, Dead City, when
you have these higher concepts now of do we try to go back to
things the way things were, or do we make a new normal?
Now they're kind of saying the thing, did you get it?
Did you get it? So having that Native American
road map in the Trials of Manhattan helps me figure that
out a little bit better. You keep saying that you saw her
in that last scene. What scene are you referring to?

(01:07:16):
The beaten down scene revises onher thing and I saw, I thought I
saw. Charlie in the They're in the
alley. Yeah, they're in the alley right
before they're going to head into Central Park.
Is that her? I don't know.
I don't think so. It kind of looks like her,
doesn't it? I don't think it's her though.
Well, here, no, she's in this episode.
Her insider. Hold on right here.
OK, that's before. So that's her.

(01:07:37):
You can see her here. OK, so that's her.
Yeah, she's wearing this double breasted jacket thing.
OK, now let's go back here. Kind of.
No, the hair is different. She has bangs.
Nope, it's not the same person. I knew it wasn't her.
She's dead. Yeah, bird chunklets.
We saw bird chunklets. I feel like they would have made

(01:08:00):
sure to show her clearly if she had survived.
Yeah, I feel like this is just abackground actor.
Nothing here, right here. That ain't her.
It is not her. That's a guy though, isn't?
It. That's a different person.
No, it's a woman. It's just a different woman.
I. Couldn't see it.
OK, let's pause here though, shall we?
Let's move on to something else.As we well know, media literacy

(01:08:22):
is failing in our country. I just want to point out
something because a lot of people online have been like,
that wasn't obvious. And I was like, no, it was
incredibly obvious. Two things.
There's two items in this episode.
The people are like, what? I didn't get that.
Maybe Buffy is the Vampire Slayer.

(01:08:43):
Is that what? You say I'm beginning to think
that I'm. Still holding out hopes Bridget
even the series has long since ended.
I think I have a theory going. I'm.
Going to go chronological actually in the episode.
So the first one is, you may be asking yourself, if you do not
have media literacy, why did Victor tell the Dhamma about
Negan pausing? And to that I will tell you it

(01:09:06):
was not Victor, it was the Croat.
Oh, I love you. Are you OK?
Because the Dhamma kisses him and says you did good.
That was because he ratted out Negan.
That's what he did good with. Didn't feel good about it.
Things up. He didn't like it, but he did
it. I just need you to know that it
wasn't Victor. He didn't die because he told

(01:09:28):
her. He had absolutely nothing to do
with that. He just happened to be there and
he had cracked through Negan shell and so the Damo wanted to
take care of that. That's all That was this.
Is one of the things I really wanted to see more of.
I really did not like that the Croat is all about him in the
past and wanting that again whenthe current is an audience

(01:09:49):
insert to a certain degree aboutwanting that the old league in
the old. You've mentioned this in the
first episode. In such sharp contrast to the
Dhamma, who does not want to go back?
Yeah, it's so weird. Plus, you saying that makes me
want to bring this up. I wanted to bring this up
earlier. So there is a point in which

(01:10:09):
Croat's really like goading Negan to like, relive, relive,
relive. And so when they're talking and
it's Victor and Croat and Negan on the rooftop and they're
preparing the bombs and Croat's like you've finished the story.
Negan gets this look like he's enjoying reliving this story,

(01:10:32):
which is interesting because we haven't seen much of that in
recent years. Lot of his time thinking about
the past is reluctant or often like saddened even if he knows
that what he did was the what heshould have done or or he would
have changed it and killed all of them.
He has regrets, but it's not theregrets that we want him to

(01:10:53):
have. This was him enjoying this story
of talking about this giant feast that he prepared for these
people and then he fed them Walker meat, which is absolutely
disgusting and a great story. It's so gross.
I love it. When we're talking about this.
We almost see the old Negan for like a second.
Like he was almost able to get him there, but then he sees

(01:11:13):
Herschel and it's like it just shuts off.
They're prepping the bombs and the other even while the attack
is happening later on in the episode, he's smiling.
There's a bit of happy screw these guys, they're trying to
kill me because rules again, This is why I like Nirvai is
coming in with her rules. It brings you back to the reason
why he went out there to begin with.
OK, there's another thing. The thing that I love about this

(01:11:35):
universe is that it keeps givingbecause one of the things we'd
always thought about and whetherit was possible that something
could be a thing is it confirms it.
Even if you cook the Walker meatyou will get sick.
This is a age-old Reddit question.
Can you survive by eating the dead?
He said some of them ended up inthe Walker pit.
Not all of them. The imager he uses the Walker

(01:11:57):
pit was full. They were.
Feeding. Walker tainted.
Terminus. To the Kingdom, the Kingdom,
they were feeding Walker meat tothe pigs and then feeding the
pigs to the same. Well, that was being filtered
through the pigs, right? But in no way, shape or form is
it confirmed that that is how they died.
They got sick, they were throwing up, which makes them

(01:12:19):
vulnerable. And so they could have easily
just gone and stabbed all of those people as they're puking
or pooping their pants or whatever.
For the audience, I'm making a face at Bridget.
Come on, Bridget, don't be that Bridget.
I'm Scott Gimple right now. Some people could have had like
ulcers or tears in their stomachwhich would have allowed.
That for sure would have. Right would have allowed.

(01:12:41):
There's poison into them, but your digestive system is in an
enclosed system. Usually it's bites or blood.
I don't think that would do it unless you already had some
underlying condition. I will hedge a bit because the
thing that is evoked when you talk about this is, Bob says
tainted meat to the Terminus folks who captured him ate up
his leg, right? Dale in the comic books, but

(01:13:02):
yes. Bob, in the show, he hadn't
turned yet. You could play with that a
little bit. But had he turned and they ate
Walker meat? I would say kind of like the
exposure of the blood that Neganwas throwing across the hilltop
walls in Season 8 and they got in people's eyes and they got
stabbed with arrows that were dipped in Walker blood.

(01:13:24):
It's like but. That didn't work on everyone
either though. Right, 90%, though the
overwhelming majority of the people who did get sick.
And to the point of illustratingit the way the Croat said it,
the Walker pit was basically full.
It was not as full before, but it was so sad, Alicia.
Didn't get sick from getting irradiated Walker blood in her

(01:13:44):
mouth. I'm just saying if you blood in
your mouth, flesh in your mouth doesn't necessarily.
Mean it's 90%, yeah. I mean, to the point that it
actually gives Alicia a little bit a little bit of grace, 100%
Oh, right. We're talking about season 5.
Sorry. We were pretty worried though.
OK, when Maggie goes to find thetire fire, the camera pans to

(01:14:09):
what started the tire fire and it is a blue strip of fabric
that is laying on a tire very neatly, not at all like you
would have done it had you actually started a fire that
way. In contrast.
To it was there for you to see it.
And then at the end of the episode on that scene that I
just paused, Herschel is wrapping someone's leg with a

(01:14:33):
blue strip of fabric and Maggie makes a face.
And she's not just making that face because that's how her face
is. She's making that face because
she really allies is that her son is the rat.
Is the mole mole? He's a.
Rat. Mole Yeah.
OK, before we continue on to I want to talk about Maggie's

(01:14:54):
reaction. Let's take a step back to give a
little bit of grace. Christian.
Bridget, let's give some grace because even I on 1st watch had
thought it can't be that obviousbecause Maggie hands Ginny A
scarf and I could have. I thought maybe.
Oh, I thought that too initially.
Yeah, right. But.
But also, if she's able to nick a gun from Narvaez, couldn't she

(01:15:17):
have nicked that very same clothfrom Herschel and set the fire I
could she have met him somewhere?
Maybe they're in cahoots together.
They both have reasons to go back.
And I would be led to believe that had they not held that
shot, of course, on him wrappingthe leg.
I say this only to give a slightbit of cover for folks who may
have been a little confused. At the very least, let's just

(01:15:38):
say that. Well, I get it.
Maybe you're not paying 100% attention either, like right,
you know, or. Too much attention we.
Second screen, a lot of things now scrolling on your phone
while you're also watching ATV show, but I'm just saying.
Too much attention, like you looked into too much and you
didn't see the obvious. That's entirely possible.
This is why we're struggling with it.
You know, many people ask me, and this is not a side note.
If people were are so good at computers, why does my job even

(01:16:01):
exist? Because even if you're good at
computers, you can't do some of the things that you otherwise
could by yourself. And you're not even should.
Let's not even sure you don't know the higher concepts.
You don't know how to do all thethings.
And if you could, everybody would do it because it's kind of
like, why can't everybody program?
Some people don't have the brainfor.
It I get it, Dave, I'm being a condescending bee.

(01:16:21):
I. Understand.
No, no, no, no, it's fine. It's fine.
I'm just saying this is my tag to what I'm saying is I'm glad.
I'm glad people don't know things because then we can
explain it to them. I love having a reason to.
It doesn't exist if you already know everything, but you don't.
So here it is, here it is. That's.
Why? We're a companion piece.
Correct. Correct.
Anyway, yeah, it's I'm being a jerk.

(01:16:43):
OK, I get it. No, you're supposed to play the
jerk. You play your part well, OK.
Did you see also? I was shocked I guess by how
many people didn't notice it. There were people online that
are like, no, like, because people were saying like, I don't
know who started the fire. Oh, it's Billy Joel.
Billy Joel, it's. Ryan No.

(01:17:04):
I knew it. I just was like, should I?
He didn't. Start, but he created the song,
so the ergo he carried the sin. Ryan did start the fire with a
cheesy PITA. What what I will say?
Charity is dying right now on mute.
What I will? Say is.
Now again, these people that I'malluding to are people who are

(01:17:28):
pumping out this content. A couple hours after this
episode came out, we sped watched it so we could make our
YouTube video and then post it. Twitter feed.
Yeah, come on. And so I just feel like that's
irresponsibility on the part of we will call them journalists.

(01:17:49):
No, like content creators and journalists.
I mean, we all technically fall in the same category, right?
Like we're not supposed. To put this out there.
Well, they don't have trainers, they have AMC Plus, and if
you're paying for it, technically you could release it
early. Now we choose to follow embargo
rules because our hope is that we will receive screeners

(01:18:10):
blurred out the watermark. Right.
We have shown, we have shown that we can be responsible.
We have received. Screeners too many a show now
can I say I will give you grace Bridget because I.
Understand your feelings now because now I understand.
Very frustrated. Your YouTube viewers should not
be commenting in. Your videos to correct your
video. I'm feeling very frustrated like

(01:18:32):
you're not doing your due diligence to Get the facts
straight before you start recording.
Is that what? That's what you're saying.
Exactly like when we do this when I do my own content.
I spend a lot of time researching stuff so that I feel
comfortable with what I'm putting out there, because I
know that should I be wrong, I'mgoing to hear about it now.

(01:18:55):
I have heard about it. I have been wrong about things.
I said Kafka's gun, which is completely incorrect and I've
been mercilessly mocked for it since then.
But that's my own fault. So fair, I realize as I'm saying
and I'm saying a blanket statement and so there are maybe
viewers who feel like I'm sayingthat towards them.
I do not mean you because even us with as much research as we

(01:19:17):
do as. Much back cataloging as we do,
we're going to get it wrong and these are always conversations.
We do our best. It shouldn't be that you watched
this at 11 AM and put out a video.
By 1:00 PM and you're getting content wrong on your slightly
over 10 minute video so that it can make you money, right?
And here's what I'll say Yes, wewill do the thing we'll get.
It we'll try to our best to get it right.

(01:19:39):
We never really claim that this is what it means.
We're just saying what we feel these things mean.
Yeah. If we're right, we're right.
If we're wrong, we can talk about in the next episode.
And our hope in all this and expressing how we feel or think
about a certain scene is necessarily that we're right
about a thing, but more like, what do you think?
And do you think that maybe we're on to something?
And sometimes The thing is so out there and we know that it's

(01:20:00):
out there. And we express that we know that
it's out there because the moon does sometimes wear pants
sometimes that we just want to know what you think about that
crazy thing. We just.
Said because we don't. Take ourselves too seriously.
We're not like some creators whodo the thing.
Is the truth behind this or the facts behind that the real hand
to hand or do you know what I mean?
How the people make this is definitely what it means.

(01:20:20):
And The Walking Dead will have 13 seasons.
Like you're wrong about that, first of all.
And maybe hedge a little bit. Hedge just a bit.
Just we just like what we do. We're like, OK, I'm not saying
this is the thing, but it would be nice if it was.
I know because it's all out there, right Dave?
Like everyone's claiming now, there's going.
To be another season of The Walking Dead.
Whatever, It's all right. Let's, let's move on to the
scene. Let's move on to something.

(01:20:41):
Else I can't talk about this anymore, Maggie.
Is absolutely crushed discovering that Herschel was.
The one to set the tire fire, which was maybe not 100% certain
that it was a signal, I'm not sure.
I know there was some discussiononline, like was he?
Really trying to send a signal to the Croat.
Now, he would know, theoretically, that the Croat
did use smoke signals to communicate, but on the other

(01:21:04):
hand, was he trying to get Maggie alone?
That could also be an interpretation of this.
I'm not opposed to that. I'm not saying that this was.
Written so clearly that you. Know 100% I don't think so in
that situation it could have been he was trying to get Maggie
alone do I fear that he was messaging the crowd yes I think
that explains his reaction I think he was just signaling to

(01:21:27):
New York City that a new. Pope had been elected.
The black smoke. Yeah, Post apocalypse, no.
It's not. That's PAP post apocalypse
apocalypse. That was Paco le Pope, I too
thought in not trying to signal.The obvious like he signaled the
correct possibly. I thought he is worried about

(01:21:50):
his mom and if he sends a signalthat this is where these people
are, they'll abort the mission. She can come home because sure,
that's that's fair. It makes what he says absolutely
one. 100% correct. It also explains why he felt
like he screwed everything up because it didn't work.
They kidnapped you just like theDhamma, Slat.
Well, she doesn't know what the Dhamma, but just like the Croat
kidnapped me. You saw them crib kidnapped me.

(01:22:12):
I saw the look at your on your face when they took me away with
the car and the weird dream sequence lineup thing that they
tried to evoke with the kidnapping.
So I'm happy with that. But again, we can state the
obvious. We can say, oh, he's signaling
to the Dhamma. I love you.
I don't think it's that either. I think the rat in the maze
thing is kind of a nice thought,that dama associating the rat
with Herschel. I don't think it's as clear cut

(01:22:34):
and having that painting there of her eating Herschel or her
eating her children or whatever you want to associate because we
said some nice things about the dama.
Maybe she lost a child. Maybe there was a thing that she
had a thing with an actor and itdidn't work out well.
Maybe she had. And then she see and and I will
say to do the Carl imagery, if you want to evoke the saviors
and Negan and Negan with Carl, could Herschel be the dama's

(01:22:56):
Carl? We could say that.
We didn't explicitly say that inthe last episode, but that's
where I was heading towards is if we're going to go with the
visual imagery. Could that could be, could be.
Listen, the fact that they have us running in circles like a rat
in a maze trying to figure this out.
I'm impressed. I love the mystery.
I love that it's not clear cut. I love that we can go in
different directions with this. Right, Bridget?

(01:23:19):
Yeah, I do. But going directly?
To Maggie's discovery. The thing that ran through my
mind is Maggie's loss. We got to see all the people
that she lost along the way fromBeth Herschel, her father,
Glenn. We got to see all that unfold.
Well, her brother too. Like you don't.
She mentions it, but like we. Don't see it right?

(01:23:40):
When she sees it, I feel like she's thinking I have lost.
Him too, I think so. I think there's the fear that
he's. Broken in a way that can't be
repaired now. Similar to look at the flowers.
Like Mika and Lizzy? Lizzy.
Yeah. Like, is this one of those
situations, too? There's been real damage done.
Now. That makes sense.
You were. Kidnapped and held captive, so

(01:24:03):
of course there's been damage done to your psyche.
But seeing him go near catatonicbefore being able to filter out
what it was exactly that he was replaying in his head is that he
messed up, and being unable to survive because of that is
really concerning. What if that had been a Walker
coming in the room instead of Jenny?

(01:24:24):
All he had to do was stand up and he would have been able to
move his arms up enough to be able to maybe break the
handcuffs. Maggie couldn't have reached
what didn't reach him. What if she?
Wasn't able to break him out of that because it took her.
Physically touching him to breakhim out of that she is locked
up. The only reason that they are
alive is because of Jenny. Isn't that great Because Jenny

(01:24:46):
comes and saves them and at the.End of the episode Jenny's there
watching this all happened. She's seeing the level of loss.
She may not know why she feels like she lost Herschel, but she
knows that look. She understands it.
I and you know, it makes me damnnear emotional too.
This is what I'm saying in the last episode.
I think in an effort to get people to maybe connect with

(01:25:06):
Maggie, you can evoke all those losses and maybe get there
slowly, inch by inch to get people to connect with her again
after having lost that connection when Lauren Cohen
left the show. Lauren Cohen's all in.
She's an executive producer. She directed episode 6 of the
season and everybody had glowingreviews for her all up and down

(01:25:26):
the panel. And so I'm, I'm really
interested in seeing how well they're going to be able to
connect us, the audience, even the people who don't have hard
feelings for Maggie. There is some awareness for it.
I just say I don't know if you noticed this, but her accent.
Seemed to be back where it was when she first started this
episode in particular. And it felt to me like maybe she
as an actress has finally reconnected with this character

(01:25:48):
because I know that that can be hard to step out of a character
and then come back to it later. And also you're coming back to
the flagship show that you left.All of these people stayed on
while you were gone. So now their storylines are
different. They've had jokes since you've
been gone. Like it maybe feels like a
little bit weird to come back. There's new people that you
didn't work with. All of that can kind of throw it
off. So even if everyone's super

(01:26:09):
welcoming and you're like reallyhappy to be there, I'm really
excited to do it, which I think that was her approach to this.
I think it can be hard to kind of get back into that skin like
a bicycle. It's like, oh, I'm a little
wobbly at first but now? I've gotten it.
It seemed like she's yeah this season 2 dead city.
Maggie seems to me like to be like the original Maggie.

(01:26:30):
Andrew Lincoln was kind of the sort of the same thing when we
saw him again. The ones who live.
It's hard. It's hard to bring yourself back
in. Yeah, that bicycle.
Creaked a little bit. We, I think we made.
Mention of this I think when it came out is that it was only
like the first or two a second like first or second.
Episode and then after that it was like, fine, but it takes it
takes some time. And he is a much more seasoned

(01:26:52):
actor. Also, you know, he's older than
Lauren. Lauren is my age.
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
I just. Around longer I the reason why I
hesitate. Is because of the things that he
was attached. To prior to The Walking Dead was
usually comedic roles or he had some serious acting drama.
Yeah, he did drama. Don't let's don't forget Love.
Actually, I. Know.

(01:27:13):
I know, I know. But even that was kind of silly.
Well, yeah. She said I loved it though,
sorry if I. Hesitated there, but I don't I
don't disagree too much. He's been around the block and
Ginny is the audience censor forus, witnessing what is unfolding
between Herschel and she. And what hurts even more is that
Herschel's making it clear I'm still here.
I'm sorry. Hugs her physical contact and

(01:27:34):
says I love you mom. And she goes doesn't have the
energy to even acquiesce. I've already lost.
Very well acted. God damn that was good.
I almost don't. Want to watch the next episode I
need a time out because I've been through a lot this episode.
OK I'm excited. I don't know what I I expected
for the second season. Honestly, I just knew I didn't
want more of the same. I don't want to do another

(01:27:56):
season of like just Maggie and Nick and at each others throats.
Like I just don't want to do this again.
I want something else. So I'm excited that this has
been very much something else. Oh, and well, what a mirror to
the last season where it was. Them together with the entire
run and now they've been apart so far and probably won't be
together until the last few episodes let's say.
I would imagine. Or maybe halfway through it's

(01:28:17):
actually together. Next episode this.
Will be exactly like the ones. Who live where we're so wrong.
Oh, yeah, And then they'll kiss.No, I'm kidding.
No. No, everybody, everybody, calm
down. Come down.
I was just kidding. Yeah, well, you and your
feelings about these characters don't exist.
Calm down. Calm down.
Also, stop taking yourself so seriously.
He says as he was crying about this is what Carl could have

(01:28:38):
been. God damn.
You know, see, this is this is what I get.
This is what I get. The one time I listen, it
happens every now and again. The end of World beyond.
OK, I bawled on this podcast, cried my eyes out as as I I'm
the one doing the editing. I did the push in to my tears.
OK, Pushed in the screen as I was crying.
The end of that episode when we're saying goodbye to the

(01:28:59):
series, which we actually liked and liked so much that it made
me. It was hard to say goodbye.
Yeah. Stop taking yourself so
seriously, stupid. Oh, no.
Sharon D only lost her. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. This is what.
This is what we get. I'm going to say this on the
side. It's cool.
The Liberty Queen is one of the Staten Island fairies.

(01:29:20):
That's where they're at on the Staten Island side, because as
you go up from Staten Island, there's the Statue of Liberty on
your left. Benjamin Pierce washes up at
Pier 45, which is near the West Village.
So he washed up shore. The current took him up
Manhattan a little bit, couple miles away.
So wash them up near the West Village.
This is Hudson River Park. What'd you say?
She said Internet went out again.

(01:29:41):
Power just went out. Too.
She just said OK, this is the only thing I wanted to talk
about. OK, OK.
First image that you see in the episode is what it was.
So cool. Just like Bobby leg tainted me
bringing up those emotions. This is what you see when the
episode first starts. What is that?
The birds nest? That's right to describe it for
the audio. Podcast.

(01:30:02):
The episode opens up this first image that you see and it is a
birds nest. Called it bird brain.
I love it. I called it bird brain.
Birdbrain.jpg It is a. Birds nest embedded inside the
skull of a Walker or a formal human.
Basically, first thing I want tosay just to get it out of the
way because it's the easiest lowhanging fruit.

(01:30:23):
This is all the things we loved about The Walking Dead world.
Beyond is the beauty and the darkness that we we saw it.
We saw it in season 9 of The Walking Dead when Michonne goes
to the van and she picks up thisthe figurine of Rick.
She goes to the bank to find Rick's body happens upon this
minivan. I feel like it's 10.
It might be 10. And the Walker that's embedded

(01:30:44):
or? In the tree, the things about
the dead mixing in with the natural environment, yeah, there
was very heavily on that in world.
You like that? You like that?
Here's walking. Dead world beyond there's beauty
in the dark, there's the. Things with the spores and the
the beehive and the wasp nest and the guy Walker's face.
The Moss is like that. The mossy Walker's on the tree
trunk. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, beautiful. This is cool too.

(01:31:05):
And what is it? It's goes beyond.
And maybe this ties into the bird that made residents on the
Walker who was embedded in the tree trunk.
This is like the continuation ofthat.
And what are they trying to tellus?
Let's go to the deeper meeting. What are they trying to tell us
here? Well, the in episode or in
season reason or deeper meaning could be the following.
It could be that we're talking about mothers and babies when

(01:31:28):
they decide to leave an as to how, when to hold on too tightly
and when to allow them to grow. And you do see a little bit of
that on the ferry. Maggie kind of relents and says,
maybe I was holding on too tightly to you.
Maybe you can fight. As the MBF says, maybe children
can fight. Yeah, So there's that.
Isn't it kind of crazy that the cloth is baby blue, baby blue

(01:31:48):
bird's nest, whatever. Anyway, there's that.
And obviously the egg that is inthe bird's nest is the egg is
hatched, the bird is no longer there.
The bird moves on. The larger meaning could be
exactly what the Season 10 was supposed to evoke.
She gives the figurine to Judith, if you remember right,
the Rick Grimes sheriff figure, Right.
And part of that was to say, this is the new world.

(01:32:10):
We've gotten this far. And now where do we go from
here? It can't be about big bads
anymore, necessarily. It's the world at large.
And this series does a concertedeffort saying, yeah, where do we
go from here? Do we embrace what was like the
NBF is trying to do, or do we twist what we know about this
world and make it better? And where do you stand as the
audience? Because you love that.
You don't have to go back to your day job.

(01:32:30):
But that can't last forever. There has to be some level of
responsibility or personal responsibility when we see that
in these communities, even though they all fall.
Yeah. When it flashed on screen I was
like oh cool. What a bird poop by the way,
too. Yeah, there's a ton.
I didn't get a. Whole lot of the thing about
this. I.
Love when they embed. Nature in this.

(01:32:50):
Grotesque, horrific future world.
We simultaneously want this and don't want this and and how how
nice that nature finds a way. It did kind of remind me of
World Beyond. Except the color.
Palette is very much Walking Dead proper World Beyond had
really vibrant colors. It was to signify that youth and

(01:33:11):
and new life and and living. So lots of like fresh green and
really vibrant purple was used in that, which was weird because
really vibrant purple was also used in the branding for the
like season 9 and 10 of The Walking Dead, I feel like.
And purple was also very heavilyused in the branding for this
show as well. Orange, purple and blue was

(01:33:32):
their whole vibe for season 1. Clearly not as much now.
Now it's like red and orange fora season, like a purple and
orange are like more of. Neon lights.
Yeah, neon lights, exactly. Which makes the blue that pops
out. Yes, well, they're complementary
colors. I love, I love blue and orange
is probably one of my favorite complementary color choices for

(01:33:52):
for some reason, it very much pops.
It's very retro in color palette.
For me. It's like very 80s.
I'm at the baby blue cloth that Hershley uses that that.
Which is why it pops out againstthe scenery.
I'm sorry about the neon. The actual neon.
I enjoyed this. I think this is a really.
Cool little piece to put in. How fun for the special effects
crew to be able to work on stufflike this because their

(01:34:13):
creativity gets to shine throughin these types of scenes when
they get to add in these little extra bits.
Oh, to be a special effects person on the show, right?
And other and otherwise thing that would not need to be there.
Correct that there's a thoughtfulness to it because it
tells. A whole story it.
It yeah, adds a little extra to it because.
It's and it's not even a story. That we need Or maybe it is.

(01:34:35):
Maybe it's meant to get front load us in a subliminal
messaging sort of way, somethingelse that we're to see.
And maybe that image shapes how we view a scene, even if you're
not talking about, like, the baby bird flying.
The nest there is a new world and that the new can include
bits of the past. That's really the best way to do
this is to learn from your history.

(01:34:56):
Not just shed history and say I'm going to do a whole new
thing, but to learn from your history and blend.
So this concept of Bach and blending the old with the new is
what this is supposed to bring up for you?
That's what I was hoping for. I gave you the runway to to.
Give the fusion of the old and the new and to repurpose you're

(01:35:19):
repurposing something and new Babylon that's.
The old, they just want it the old way.
They want it the same way. What is the Dhamma?
She wants it a new way. Nothing from the old world.
And then there's the in between.There's an in between where you
take the 2 and you blend them together to create something new
and beautiful. And that's what this is supposed
to remind you of that that's possible that that's what our

(01:35:39):
people did. That's what the survivors group
did in The Walking Dead. He's here, Bridget, while we're
here. Because the only other thing
that I clipped out from the. Show was the painting.
It's so gross. I love it so much, the facial.
Expression is really what I loveabout this painting.
Now, I've seen this before because it's just like, it's
just like a weird painting that people are always like, look at
this. It's weird.

(01:35:59):
And for those of you who don't know, art was at one point my
major in college. This is stuff I love.
The eyes alone. What is this like lack of
eyelids? Like what was going to do?
It it's like, it's so cool. To see because again, Sharon, he
was right. And I never think of it in that
perspective, but like, what a great perspective to have.
This is at a time in which no other visual media exists

(01:36:23):
besides paintings. Yeah, it's just paintings.
Literary Media. Does exist, but not everybody
can read. It's like versus pre Martin
Luther, by the way, I think which.
No freedoms. That was like right after the
dark ages. So this was before.
That there would have been literary people in the world,
but not everyone would have had that luxury.

(01:36:44):
And so this would have been the one way to really show things.
And then also for you to see something so starkly different
from the art that existed at this time, because the art that
existed at this time, at this time of painting gods and the
story of the gods were these like beautiful Think like Venus
it 1/2 shell. We're talking like these

(01:37:05):
beautiful paintings. It wasn't this.
It was it was portraying them, not this.
Rose tinted. Glasses as.
Archetypes that we can see ourselves in.
It's disgusting. So awesome.
It's so great I. Just love everything about.
It it's disgusting and. Horrific and and it's horrible
and of course you. I'm watching the show because
you think people are inherently evil.

(01:37:25):
Yeah, dude, they. Are and.
We we've said there's. Little that in the beginning.
Yeah, well, yeah. Well, their nature is sin, and
that's correct. And without Jesus, it's all for
none. I it's like he's a Christian
sometimes. It's like sometimes Dave's
almost there. You're Kermit the Frog.
It's like it's not easy being Bridget.

(01:37:46):
I bring this up only actually tomention two things.
Two small things. OK, is that who gave them the
painting? Kim Cole Brugel.
Brugel is I can't. Remember.
His name This is for the audience.
Brugel is spelled. Bru.
EGAL correct. I first thought it was think
burgers Bagels. What is that?
Burgers? Bagels.

(01:38:07):
Yeah. I don't know what that is.
Oh, that's right, you. Live in New York, so you only go
to. Like small.
Bagel shops this takes place in Please continue is that a chain
burgers. Bagels exist everywhere else.
Everything outside in here, there's a.
Whirl outside in here, we don't have good bagels elsewhere.
OK, so so. Sorry, this is as close as
you're going to get. Is that what you're saying?
Bagels. Bagels.
No, but it's a bagel chain restaurant.

(01:38:29):
Bruegger's. And it's spelled Bru e.g.
Gers. Oh, OK, that's a long spelling.
OK, I say. This only because if you Google
bruegal.com Bru e.g. AL.
A whole lot of things are going to come up, which we will
probably dig into when we see Brugal next, OK?

(01:38:50):
But I also bring this up becauseit says a lot about Brugal to
Brugal is sending a message to the dama that we agree we're in.
We know what we want out of the we want modernism.
We want to show the world the way it is, not the way it could
be, not the way it was. We want to live in the world
that whatever it was gave us. Here we are.
Ultimate existentialism, ultimate libertarianism.

(01:39:11):
We're here now. Let's live the way we want.
Let's not go back to the past. Let's not make society.
Which is interesting why she wants to get the tribes
together, if only to repel New Babylon Federation.
Otherwise, I'm happy with these tribes of New York.
I'm OK with that. We need Megan for a season.
Then we don't need him anymore. Which is an interesting thing
thing to say when you consider, you know, embracing a little bit

(01:39:34):
of the old to get rid of the older.
And then once I'm done with it, I will discard you.
I will eat your children, Megan.I will personally dine on their
flesh. I'm not saying she'll do.
Maybe, though, I don't know. Because she keeps saying.
Is your heart a flutter when you're about to see your
children? Isn't it horrible?
It's like, it's so horrifying tothink.
That his family is coming there,one we still don't know what

(01:39:55):
happened between them, That they're not together at the
beginning of this series. He sent them away after this
whole fiasco. Just to kind of that's what he
says, that's what he says. Well, we don't know that that's
the truth, or if that's. Just what he's saying to save
face or whatever. Did Annie learned something
about him and decided to leave? I don't know.
But we haven't seen Annie since season 11 of The Walking Dead.

(01:40:16):
It's been many, many, many years.
We've never seen the sun except for in Euro and.
Not even then. We saw maybe an ultrasound.
We saw an ultrasound. So to think that she is bringing
them here, her reach goes beyondthis island, is crazy to me.
She just killed that dude in front of him.

(01:40:37):
A dude he objectively cared for.Yeah, like how old that?
She knew about and obviously this is.
His family, she. Knows.
He loves them. Do you want to be more
terrified? Just not really.
Just not really sure. You should be.
You should be. When Victor plays.
Bach. She knows that he's playing
Bach. You take it for granted, the
level of education, because you don't know anything about the

(01:40:58):
dama. Every little bit she knows that
she's informing the audience. I know what you're playing says
a lot about her well and that she knows what Bach is.
True and what he and. That she knows contemporaries
and like, that's wild. Because a lot of people don't
like I I will. I will admit I do.
I'm not well versed in classicalmusic.
Even if you don't know anything about that, the fact that she

(01:41:20):
knows. We don't know.
Yeah, a lot about her, we had said.
What makes her so terrifying? Why her?
What is it about her? And we get a little bit more of
Lisa Emery in this episode. And I'm yes, please, more of
this and hold back, keep holdingback.
Every little drip, drip, drip that I'm getting from her is
terrifying. Yes, it is, Benjamin Pier

(01:41:41):
states. Do I know you from somewhere?
At first, I was like, does she recognize him, too?
Because at first she positions herself away from him and
maintains, like, not looking in his direction for that next
scene. She's like, facing the candles.
And then she kind of cheats out a little to talk to Negan, but
she's not, like, turning back around to face him.

(01:42:03):
And I was like, this is interesting.
She know this guy and she's trying to act like, oh, it's not
that big a deal, you don't know me.
I'm going to now turn away instinctively so that you can't
figure out how you know me. But then she does the whole
thing with Victor. And so clearly she's facing
Benjamin during that time. So I'm not 100% sure where
that's going to lead. I think it's really interesting.

(01:42:23):
It was a nice little tiny one line to be like, there's way
more to this than I thought. Where's Benjamin from?
Right? Because now you could.
Spin the ARN, Nothing. Is throw away.
And it's also a media literacy thing too, because you're not
meant to throw that away. Please don't throw that away.
No, hold on to that one. My first thought was obvious.
He's a story he must have read about.

(01:42:44):
Her. He must have seen pictures about
her, blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Maybe, I was wondering, was she like a significant person?
In the New York scene wouldn't have to be significant, even the
fact that he's poured so much. Research into New York.
He may have strafed across her name.
What name? We haven't heard her name, not
really. She's the Dhamma for all
intents. He must have seen a picture for
all the things that we're sayingabout Herschel and the Dhamma

(01:43:07):
and what the Dhamma must have obviously lost.
She lost a child and that's why she's is the way she is.
She could be one of those situations where if Negan was a
gym teacher and the Dhamma is being portrayed as this actress
of celebrated on stage and screen those who can't teach.
Oh, that's true. Could have been a drama teacher
and he was just in. Her class?

(01:43:28):
Yeah, he. Would have been quite young when
the fall he would have been quite young, I agree.
Unless he was playing somebody older than he's supposed to be.
I'm not ready to say that. That's fine.
You can go harder in the paint. Let's say he doesn't know from
from Adam. But what if this was her child?
Is she ready to eat her own child?
I'm curious for more. That's all I'm going to say
about it. I just want to know.
More I'm not going to theorize too much here.
On it. We have to say the things and we

(01:43:50):
back away. You're not experts.
I don't know. I haven't been excited about.
I like the spin. Offs I've I've enjoyed them.
Darrell Dixon I thought was great.
I enjoy the theological discussions that it brings up
because that's fun for me and it's cool to explore faith in a
different way. I really enjoy it.
I loved the Ones Who live because it finally gave us the

(01:44:10):
story that we were waiting for and we're promised for so many
years. So I was like really thankful to
finally get that and going back and watching old episodes now,
season 5-6, seeing those early Michonne and Rick moments, I'm
like, yeah, I get it. You know, like some people were
like, I don't know, their had their relationship happened so
quickly. But like, it really doesn't.

(01:44:32):
There is a slow burn there, but you have to be paying attention
to see. 100% agree. You're finally getting that
gratification for something thatwas out there for so long.
You know what I mean? Let's make it relevant, because
even what you're saying right now is.
Rick was going after the thing he thought he wanted, which is
Jesse Anderson. Yeah, When What really suited
him better, I would say arguably, but no, it's.

(01:44:54):
The way things panned. Out she was more suited for him
whether you think they should betogether or not, the second last
moments as early as the prison, where it's very.
Obvious that that was the plan, but unless you're like looking
for it, you don't really see it.But there was there were moments
as early as then that this was the way it was going to go
always, regardless of how ready Rick was to be there.

(01:45:16):
Because. Christian's looking at him.
This guy is lost. This guy is crazy, which is
like, that's why it had to happen the way.
That it did so. That they both.
Had enough character developmentand enough in an arc for it to
make sense. They had to get to the point
where they were well suited to each other.
Well, again, setting all of thataside, isn't that also?
This season of Dead City, correct what you think, you know

(01:45:39):
what you think you want or return to what you wanted or
lorry replacement or take what is what actually is.
This is the world the way it is and this is what you want now
because you are a different person, you are changed and I
just have to say that this. Is kind of bringing back that
week to week excitement that TheWalking Dead had.
I'm going to say this out loud for anyone who's like, oh, she's
picking a favor. I'm not, I'm telling you right

(01:46:01):
now, I am just thankful that this IP has continued.
I know that there is a lot of discourse online about which one
has better ratings and which oneis doing better, and I don't
understand why you're cannibalizing the fandom to make
a point. I just, I don't understand that
or tribalizing because like, why?
Who cares? Watch what you want to watch and
just go away. Well, we're all part of the same

(01:46:23):
group. We all want the same thing.
Do you want this to succeed or not?
I want all of it to succeed so that this maintains, because I
think there's still more storiesto tell in this universe.
Some people want it to be done. Some people want just theirs to
do well. I don't really understand any of
that. But I want more out of this.
And so I am happy that all of this exists and all of it is
here. I'm just saying that this is

(01:46:44):
finally bringing back that feeling of week to week
excitement. I can't wait for the next
episode to come out. Yeah, it's not like you're
keeping the franchise on life support.
They're actually making. Good stories, period.
It's correct. It'd be one thing if they were
right, right Bridget, if they were right and this is just
wrote and there's nothing to seehere folks and we would give
them the due diligence if we stop talking.

(01:47:05):
I honestly, I'm saying this now as a declaration if there was
nothing to talk. I said this in the last episode,
but saying it in this context, Imean fear entered what it did,
but if it continued I think. All of us really would have been
done with it. We were really struggling that
last season to find the good andthis is what I'm saying, but we
do have something to talk about.There is something here when we

(01:47:26):
bring up these scenes and these birds nest and the bird brain
and the zombie thing. Not just that, but all these
things that we're painting and invoking these emotions in a new
way. It's like an ammonia, like the
nostalgia for what wasn't. And I will say, if there was
nothing to talk again, the declaration, if there was
nothing to talk about, we wouldn't be.
But here we are, and it's The Walking Dead universe, baby, and

(01:47:47):
it continues. It thrives.
And AMC knows that this is the next Star Trek, Star Wars
franchise thing. AMC knows that they're in this
flashpoint. And if they don't, go hard.
This is why we're so pleased with their promotionals in New
York City, with the Citi Field and the first pitch and all that
stuff. Go hard.
Make people take notice that we are still here, even though you

(01:48:09):
may have forgotten about it. There's more to this story.
And again, I'm crying over the Carl that never was and the
numbers are doing well, like it's all in.
Posts like people are just binging, but still, that's
something people aren't watchinglive TV as much as they used to.
True. And we're getting those, those
streamer numbers. So all is to.
Say, if you like what you've heard, head on over to

(01:48:30):
ratethispodcast.com/quacky Dead.5 stars and a barrel is all that
we need to know that you love us.
A barrel full of sodium hydroxide and methane?
Sure. Tell us what you liked.
Tell us what you didn't like. Tell us what you think we might
have missed. It's possible.
Certainly. Just remember to tell us after
every single episode. It really means a lot.
I still have a rating from Kim Rowley because of the thing I

(01:48:51):
said about New York Pizza. That was the thing that got her
to leave a rating on Cast Box Stop.
I love that. Yeah.
And I will. I will.
Treat you to New York City pizza.
Kim Rowley, once you come here, because for all your support,
you hung in there, you upgraded your walkers to Whispers.
You know what, Kim? If you're going to New York
City, Dave, if that's OK with you.
I will crash at your apartment. I will be there.

(01:49:12):
I will be there. I will be there to.
Welcome, Kim, to the. City also.
I will go. We'll go get a New York slice
for real this time, because I ate Jersey pizza last night.
And on the heels of that, I willsay the following if.
You are liking what you're hearing.
Tip us. Tipping us sends us a signal.
It gives you forever access to our discord.
It allows you to watch the unedited episode recordings and

(01:49:33):
get the pre squawk insights for 30 days.
Take it a little further like Kim did and join one of our four
tiers, which we're going to slimdown to 3.
When you do, for as little as $4.00 a month, you'll get those
things in perpetuity. If you join the Whispers
Survivors and grade them tier, you'll get a free classic
T-shirt upon signing up. There's a whole bunch of other
perks the survivors here in Great M tier.

(01:49:53):
You can show up in these episodes alongside us with your
own thoughts. You earn the right to be here
and say the things to my face. And also great M tier allows you
to be in our back door meetings where you you can see how the
sausage is made. All the things we're planning on
doing that we we can't talk about publicly, absolutely not.
Some of the things that we want to talk about that we can't
involve Screener things and things that we really literally

(01:50:16):
cannot. But you will have that inside
information. You will have earned that right
as a junior producer. Consider it, it's
ko-fi.com/squawking Dead or patreon.com/squawking Dead.
The link is in description of our videos and podcasts, but
I've just said the link so you can go there yourself.
I've been your host David Cameo and I'm just joined by Rachel
Burke, JD Lazy Gardner and and Bridget.

(01:50:37):
You can find me at KO-FI. Dot com slash punky Brewster,
that's PUNKYBRUISETER almost misspelled it for a second.
I can spell. I can spell good.
We're hooked on five. It's work for me.
I couldn't. Count on the last episode.
This is rough. I.
Hope you're as excited as we areto see the next episode.

(01:50:57):
And if you're that excited, you can join us for free in the
studio by just following you, Kofi or Patreon.
It's free to follow on both platforms.
Schedules are updated in a free post for you to join us in the
studio for free. There's no money involved.
We want your input. We just make those studios
closed because it allows us to actually cover more than one
series at a time and also helps us crank out a very quality

(01:51:20):
episode for you, the public audience to enjoy.
And if you do join us in the studio, your real time chats,
we'll make it into these episodes when we comment on the
things you say during our recording sessions.
Like maybe you don't agree that the Dhamma is just a horrible
painting eating the gods, and maybe you don't agree that
Herschel's redeemable. Maybe you think Maggie sucks.
You say it in the chat and we will say it out loud, and we'll

(01:51:44):
agree or disagree with you. But maybe we both can learn
something along the way because we are squawking dead.
Take care everybody. We'll see you real soon.
See ya. I have a real question.
Am I the? Villain of the podcast.
Everybody knows that. I'm the villain of the podcast,
Bridget. You're just like Narvaez appeal

(01:52:04):
to Dave's authority for some reason but also he's the worst.
I don't really like her, it's cuz she's me.
Thank you again for making it toyet another episode of.
Squawking dead this one, the second episode of The Walking
Dead. Dead Cities second season titled
Another Ishi Lesson. I'm happy to announce that we
have another new yet old Whispers to your member.

(01:52:24):
As is the case in all episodes, we like to acknowledge our great
M survivors and Whispers to yourmembers in that order.
It's a little perk that they receive for their support, among
many other perks. Just head on over to Kofi or
Patron to read what they are so that you can take advantage of
them yourself. Starting with the great M tier,
the greatest ish tier we have atRail Marine GM on Instagram and

(01:52:44):
X. Moving on to the survivors tier,
we have Douglas Athagen at Walking Dead RS2 on Instagram.
Moving on to the whispers tier, we have Skylar rose.
That's SKYLARROSEPW on Instagramand X, as well as our mentioned
fan favorite at Kim dot Rowley, the number one one on Facebook.

(01:53:04):
I sincerely hope you enjoyed this episode.
It was a little bit longer than our usual runs, which means I
hope that you got a little bit more out of it than you thought
you would. And I hope, like us, you're
looking forward to the next episode and subsequently the
next episode breakdown from Squawking dead.
In the meantime, check out our merch store for our Squawking
Dead City merch. The logo and art design.

(01:53:25):
We still haven't settled on a new design for season 2.
I'm not necessarily sure that wewill, but if you have an idea,
as always, you can leave us a rating or review, comment on the
YouTube video or Spotify podcastand let us know.
And we're on social media. Head over to squawkingdead.com
and you can follow us there. We post about things, a lot of
things. In fact.
One of those things is Jeffrey DMorgan and Lauren Cohan on Hot

(01:53:47):
Ones, which we mentioned or willmention in the next episode of
our discussions on The Last of Us.
If you were watching it on YouTube live, you will have
heard us talk about it already. In any case, like I said in the
episode, just remember that we are squawking dead.

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