The Walking Dead: Dead City |2x05 "The Bird Always Knows"

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Nice. Why is she French when she's?
Excited did gonna. Kill your ass.
You're so dead. Oh, somebody's dead.
She doesn't. Maybe she's dead.
That's a dead rap. I love that her go to is biting
people. Stop.

(00:28):
I mean, I get it. She literally.
Bit him. Oh, oh, we heard his name.
Oh, did. Knew one of them was going to
die. Man, man, I liked her.

(00:51):
I did too. I was really hoping the Croat
was going to die. Put your.
Headphones down. OK this.
Is more fun this way. Rat guts all over issue.
Duh. Was unnecessary.
That was an unnecessary. Scene.
And a three and a two and a one and a go.

(01:29):
In spite of my rage, I'm still just a rat in a We Are Squawking
Dead, a podcast pulverizing programs beyond The Walking Dead
universe. Sometimes we give you news,
sometimes we make you laugh. Most times we go deep.
I'm your host, David Cameo, and I'm joined by How's My Mom?
'S. Irvine.
Lazy Gardner. And Bridget, you can find me at

(01:50):
youtube.com, slash at Punky Brewster.
That's PUNKYBRUISETER. Hey, and we're here to talk to
you with you about The Walking Dead, Dead Cities fifth episode
of season 2 titled The Blade Always noise.
That's not right. The bird always knows.
First things first. Before we move on to talk about

(02:13):
this episode, you may notice that we're here an hour earlier
than we usually are, which usually means that nobody will
be here when we are. Or am I wrong?
Let us know in the chat if you are here, as Sharon D and Rachel
are. Hello.
Oh, hello. Second of all, if you happen to
be here, you'll notice that I have posted for those of you who
are watching on your television sets, AQR code at the bottom

(02:36):
next to our link on the bottom right saying where you can tip
us during the stream so you can halt all our gears and get our
attention and also show some love when you head to
ko-fi.com/squawking Dead slash tip.
And when you tip us on stream, it will a robotic voice, a very
kind robotic voice will relay your message along with your tip

(02:56):
telling us, asking us what you'dlike us to talk about during the
stream rather than what we currently are.
Usually that happens when we have ADHD and somebody will belt
out something. Yes, I know this game, it's this
game in the middle of something someone is saying, you usually
me, you have that right when youtip us and you, you will
actually be forgiven for it because I can't be mad at that.
So again, you can tip us during the stream, halt all gears and

(03:19):
we will respond to what you are saying because you love us for
some reason enough to tip us. We appreciate that.
Moving on to any housekeeping that we may or may not have, I
guess we could say with some confidence that The Last of Us
Season 2 coverage has now come to a final conclusion with clips
continuing to be released to this day of our final episode,

(03:40):
which was really cool. It was really, really long.
And to remind everybody else of last week's round of episodes,
we released them largely unedited.
We just took out the spaces in between words, some minor
content cuts, but but really notmany cuts at all.
Let us know if you enjoyed us. If you well, yes, let us know if
you enjoyed us, but also if you enjoyed the unedited version

(04:02):
versions of those episodes. If we do get 10 or more folks
who say that they enjoy the unedited versus the usual edited
episodes. Now you'll have to be listening
for a while to know the differences between the two, but
our last episode of Dead City and The Last of Us were released
largely unedited and we would like to know if you prefer those
over the normal versions. I know we've getting some mixed

(04:24):
results. It's pretty much down the middle
actually so far of edited versusunedited.
And I've appreciated the feedback thus far, so thank you
so much. I'm thinking by the time we
record next, we'll do the tally and we'll figure it out and
we'll see where we go from therebecause by then we'll know how
to edit this episode. Basically, I guess 01 more bit

(04:46):
of housekeeping we'll in just a few hours from now, because it
is 6:00 PM on the East Coast of the United States and in just
under 3 hours, we're probably a little over 3 hours, we'll be on
the MCU's Bleeding edge talking about this episode again on
their channel. If you just search for the MCU's
bleeding edge on YouTube, you'llfind their channel.

(05:08):
Why not subscribe to them? Why not enable not all
notifications? I think I've got Bridget and
myself coming on there. Charity, if you want to jump on
there and if you have the ability.
It's pretty late. It's 9:30 PM on the East Coast.
The mere thought just gives Rachel anxiety.
She's shaking her head right nowand she's like, how do you
people deal with it's crazy You,are you not?

(05:30):
I agreed for the for this. I'll do it for this.
I was asleep before 9:00 PM lastnight.
I'm surprised you were up so late.
I know that's actually late for me.
It's a tragedy. Check us out there.
We'll be lending our thoughts there.
I know Hanukkah from Fandom Hybrid was on there to talk
about The Last of Us. I just, I peeped their channel

(05:51):
earlier today to see if there was a link that we could share,
but there wasn't. And it only just came out, I
think, I think an hour ago only.And I was busy getting notes.
So, yeah, you can get the link for that now and set yourself a
reminder on your own YouTube channel so that you'll be
notified before we jump on at 9:30 PM Eastern US time trying

(06:11):
to get onto the New York Comic Con circuit.
I know that you had some bad news, Bridget, but hopefully
we'll get there. Yeah, Well, well, we'll get
there. It was last time it was you, so
hopefully we're the. Circle is complete.
The circle of rejection is complete.
So yeah, hopefully we'll we'll have some traction there.
I mean the whole idea being thatby then The Walking Dead Daryl

(06:34):
Dixon season 3 will be out and maybe there'll be a pre
screening of that series season of The Walking to Daryl Dixon.
They are already filming season 4.
That's what I was getting to, Yeah.
Yep. It just like Fallout last week.
The announcement, or it was a week, week and a half ago,
Fallout had announced that they were already filming Season 3

(06:57):
before Season 2 ever aired. It's the same thing with Daryl
Dixon. Season 4 was greenlit before
season 3, sort of light of day, already filming it.
Amazing. We're eating well, folks.
Oh, well, there's one more tiny thing, and that is to dovetail
onto that. If you've been watching on AMC,
the amazing thing about The Walking Dead Daryl Dixon Season
3 is that they've been drip, drip dripping scenes from that

(07:18):
third season that will be comingin fall.
No date has been announced just yet, but it's been pretty cool
to see like these three to sevensecond clips of Season 3 of
Daryl's mostly on his motorcycle, zooming across
Portugal and Spain, I guess I think is the idea.
And there's a. Clip of some very handsome man

(07:39):
who is going to be a leader of another group I'm guessing.
Well, and of course, in the lastone, there's Stephen Merchant,
nice, lovely, lovely surprise. Stephen Merchant, incredible
comedian who was the he's also the brain chat like for most
popular audiences. If you don't know, Steve
Merchant is first of all, shame on you.
Second of all, I think he was part of a of many brainchild on

(08:01):
the original office in the UK. So if you enjoyed that, that's
he's behind. That show called Outlaws that's
on. I think it's it's really good
and he for general audiences, hewas Amy's the guy that Amy
Farrah Fowler went out on dates with when she and Sheldon were
broken up on Big, very tall guy,very.

(08:22):
Tall. Yeah, I didn't know who he was
and I just looked up his pictureand I'm like, Oh yeah, he's.
That guy for American audiences,probably, yeah.
He was also in Logan too, by theway, just so you know.
He was the metallic skinned person in the beginning.
I think that's how I'm going to call him.
He had metallic skin, but he wasa mutant Logan. the IT was a

(08:46):
part of the Sony Pictures of Marvel Universe, basically.
I think it was, yeah, Yeah. Based off of Old Man Logan.
Old Man Logan, right? The comics Good, good, good,
good catch. The bird always knows Rachel.
How does the title of this episode relate to what we just
what you literally just saw before we went live?
Because we're not done watching the episode.
I know I was finishing it up as you were hitting go live.

(09:10):
What was? What was the name of the?
Episode. Would you be surprised if if I'd
said that the episode is called the bird always knows that's
what it is, right? Yeah.
The bird always knows. Are you surprised after all the
episode titles we've heard? What was that?
Hold on, what was there's a ghost in your house?

(09:32):
I mean. Is the ghost of Christmas Past
coming soon? Those are the noises that
teenage boys make video gaming. Yes.
Yes, they make the weirdest noises anyway.
Old man's silence. For real, the bird always knows.
So obviously the story that Roxana tells us, right about the

(09:57):
bird who picks the piece of paper that has some sort of
fortune. No, not a Fort like a Riddle.
I I imagined like fortune cookiekind of, but like, but like a
Riddle. And I really enjoyed the one
that she told. But ultimately it doesn't
matter. That's the point.
The point is it doesn't matter. You can interpret it in many

(10:17):
different ways depending on yourbelief system.
Well, what about you? What's your personal belief
about it? And then we can trade well.
That we don't have time for all of that that's.
That's like Bridget always makestime.
We really I. Oh, she doesn't like it when
it's all about you. I really.

(10:37):
I really don't. Don't go big.
I mean stop, stop. Lucy for the podcast audience,
Rachel's cat Fiona decided to attack her microphone just now.
She just like swung her butt andlike butt bounced my microphone
and and then the and then the. Mic condom.

(10:58):
Yeah, like flew off. Anyway, sorry.
Oh my gosh. She does it all the time.
But I can just, I can usually catch her sooner.
That is a loaded topic, something I'll be honest with.
I, you know, struggle with sometimes, right?
Do we have a choice or are things laid out for us and the

(11:20):
choices we make are sort of predetermined and we were always
going to make that choice, whichis going to lead us down this
path and that one. And I don't like to think about
it because. So you're talking about free
will versus the fates and stuff like that.
OK, I love that. I don't like to think about it
too much because I enjoy the illusion that I have a choice.

(11:41):
Which means that you do. Believe that things are
predetermined, but you love the illusion of choice.
But I also believe that, you know, God did give us free will
and with, if we didn't have freewill, then things would be
planned out for us. But I don't know, maybe there's
a path we're supposed to be on, but free will allows us to
divert from that path, right? There's good choices and bad

(12:06):
choices. And as long as you make the
right ones, you stay on the right path.
And if you make the wrong choices, you ultimately are
choosing a a different path. Not necessarily a bad one, just
different than maybe what was mapped out for you.
I don't know, it's, it's scary to think about.
So someone else can talk now. Well, how about this?
Let's drill down a little bit further when it comes to

(12:28):
Armstrong. How, how does that choice or
that let's just say Riddle or that gold piece relate to all
the other gold pieces? What does, what do you think he
should be taking from that? That it was always going to end
up this way. I think in Armstrong's
situation, he should, I mean, itcould be comforting.
I think that's what Roxana is trying to offer him in the
moment is comfort. You know, it doesn't matter what

(12:50):
choices you did. You did what you thought was
right. You made the best choices
possible. And this is and this is where
you ended up. And ultimately it doesn't, it
doesn't matter. This is where you are.
This is where you ended up and just feel good knowing you.
You did your best. I'm going to say this because I
fear that I'll forget about it, but we'll talk about it more
later. Isn't that basically what

(13:11):
happened to Christos? If you don't make a choice, the
choice will be made for you. Oh, sure.
OK, yeah. Wow, Yeah, I didn't think of
that until just now. Boom.
Look at that, Rachel, who said. I did that on purpose.
I set you up for that. Who?
Well, let me put you this. I forget about that dumb thing,
whatever the thing that I just said, just the fact that, but

(13:35):
no, it was bigger than that. I well, and I'm impressed and I
made it animated face noises. That was great.
Anybody else with the bird always knows.
There's a saying, a Canary in the coal mine because back in,
you know, old time mining days, they would take Canaries down
into the coal mine with them because if there were dangerous
gases, it would take the Canary out first and they would know

(13:57):
that they needed to get out. Which I feel like there's a tie
in somewhere with the methane and gassing of Christos.
Her uncle's bird was yellow. That's I That's the first thing
I thought of when she said that.Yeah.
Also the thing that fell on the Dhamma at the end looked like a
golden bird cage that was surrounding her, like she was
trapped in the bird cage. And isn't her room kind of just

(14:18):
as gilded? Which is such it's so telling
for someone who wanted to erase the past she found herself
reliving it. Isn't that crazy?
She bit the writer who wrote thelittle Empress is what the Croat
basically called her Little Empress was the play that the
writer wrote that she bit the She bit the writer.
She bit the Croat who wrote her destiny, who then had it erased.

(14:43):
Why was she dressed like Uncle Faster though?
Here's the thing. Somebody in costuming?
That's all I could think of. It was something about that last
scene, like the way she like turned.
I was like, what is happening? I'm like, why is she looking
like Uncle Fester right now? She's been wearing that same
weird. I'm going to call it a house

(15:04):
coat, because that's what. It looks like a frock, but yeah.
It looks like a house coat to me.
She's just living her best livesin a house coat every day.
Which can't blame me, sister, I'm in my pajamas as soon as I
get home. So is in this the jumpsuit
conversation all over again. Because.
But when she, when she turned Dave, when she turned it, it
gave Uncle Fester like very. Weird Uncle Fester.

(15:25):
Because here's the thing, I think somebody made a bet with
the costuming department saying,listen, I'm going to make this
make this look exactly like Uncle Fester's.
Obviously we're going to tailor it to Lisa Emery's figure
because, but they didn't. Though that's why I was giving
Uncle Fester 'cause it was like.Well, because the best school
was like Uncle Fester. Could Uncle Fester could power

(15:45):
light bulbs with his mouth and she is responsible for power in
the city? This is where we've descended.
It's great. I I like it.
Why don't you? No.
I was just gonna say, though, that if she can pull it off.
No. And nobody notices, right,
'cause it's Lisa Emery. She can pull off faster better
than Fester can pull off. Fester say that.
I noticed it this time and thereyou go.

(16:05):
But only in this episode. She's looked like Uncle Fester
all along the way and I just realized.
She gives way more fester when she's festering with anger.
It was something about the full body switch.
It was almost like a, it was almost like a Batman turn, like,
Oh yeah, 'cause. He can't turn his neck right.
Yeah. Yeah, no neck movement, just a
full turn like a full pivot Joker.

(16:26):
And yeah, that's that's what made me think of Uncle.
With a swish, right? With a swish.
Heavy. Heavy is the head that wears the
crown the princesses used to wear in a crown, so you know
she's got to hold her next to when she turns.
Oh yeah. Wow, poor thing.
Wow. So anybody, anybody else for the

(16:47):
bird always knows. Toucan Sam used to sing Follow
my nose. It always knows and I every
time, he said. The bird always knows.
I thought about that. So all my 80s kids out there.
Yeah, Fruit Loop Sam right now is like now he's on surfboards
and skateboards. He's going cowabunga or
something. I don't, I don't know, some
weird thing that he isn't known for.

(17:08):
I must go. My planet needs me.
The printed loop where we we hope we forage for fruits in on
your planet and we come back to the planet loop.
I am Tul Khan Sam in my language, his name in real life
is faster Fester festering feather.

(17:32):
Yeah. Uncle.
Feather. Anywho, let's move on to
something else, everybody. Please, please can actually can
I ask you a quick question aboutthis bird scenario?
Well, that's kind of what I was asking earlier.
Because like I said earlier, I can't see anything in this
episode when I watch it during the day because the light in my
house comes in from the windows.And God forbid there's any light

(17:54):
on the television, because then that's all I can see that and me
like this on the screen. Looking at you, I'm looking at
me. Looking at the TV going who did
this episode? Like, I don't know why, but I
have triple chins when it happens, Always, always.
It's like when you catch yourself on your phone, suddenly
you're like you're. Like this with the neck thing.

(18:15):
Why is it like that? Yeah.
So I couldn't see anything for alot of these scenes.
So I've I've several questions, but one of them relates to the
birds. Not the birds, the bird.
It wasn't plural. There was not more than one.
Was there any bird? And the little little riddles,
little Riddle. The little riddles.

(18:36):
Was the Riddle actually on paper, or was it also on a gum
wrapper? No, it was just what was that?
It was just gold rocks. They're just little gold
pebbles. Were they 'cause it looked like
it looked like wrapped up gum? Wrappers like silver.
Crunched up pebbles. Yeah.
OK, so there was only one piece of paper.

(18:56):
There weren't any there. Were no, I'm with you, Bridges.
It looked like crumbled up paperuntil you they when they showed
it in his hand really close up. Through his finger and it's
like. Then it.
Right. Then it's like, OK, it looked
like like iron pyrite, almost like fool's gold with the edges.
Yeah, yeah, OK. I'm pretty sure it was gold.
So Uncle just always made-up theRiddle, was the whole thing.

(19:17):
Correct. Yeah.
Yeah, that's so the bird always knows is an absolute sham.
Exactly what I took from it was either one, the paper was blank
and he made it up, he made-up whatever he wanted, or they were
all the same one. I got you.
Oh yeah. I it just reminded that.
Was the feeling I got when she dumped all the rocks out of her
hand and it was like these. It didn't matter which one he.

(19:38):
Did right. It didn't matter which one you
pulled out there 'cause they were all the same.
'Cause it wasn't the bird. In my head I was like, that's
obviously gum wrappers 'cause you could write on the inside.
Or like the let me know this little kid games like.
That because remember, you used to get gum foil, you know, you
got like the shiny foil on the gum.
I was with you, Bridget. I thought the same thing.
For this so much, this is something I would ask.

(20:00):
We used to use it to make grills.
Is this a freaky Friday? Yeah, that would be, that would
be a question. I I'd be like, how did she know
the Riddle if she didn't open the wrapper?
I get that. I just was like, OK, was it
aluminum foil? And then there was one piece of
paper that like, I knew it was like predetermined.

(20:22):
That part wasn't lost on me. Like it was, it was whatever it
was, that one Riddle. But I'm sorry, the show was
really dark dude. So let me, let me comment on the
darkness a little bit, 'cause here's I hate going to this
territory, but we're gonna. So yeah, you remember Game of
Thrones season 8? It's kind of like that, right?
That one episode where they werein Winterfell basically fighting

(20:43):
it. Was the the battle right the
last battle? Do you remember also Fear The
Walking Dead season 4 and well, and who is doing director
photography for this season of The Walking Dead?
Dead City, of all the things they're getting right and for
the most part, the color sciencein this season of Dead City
makes a little bit more sense. I actually they interweaved a
little bit of season 1 of Dead City in the episode or Insider

(21:06):
and Season 1's colors were kind of just very weirdly vibrant in
certain areas where they probably shouldn't have been.
Whereas this season is more accurate, however, as was Fear
of The Walking Dead, Season 4 was a little darker.
And that's Adam Sushitski basically.
You know what, Dave, I'm gonna, I'm gonna concur with you
because I have noticed that my, I am attracted to vibrant colors

(21:28):
on television shows like I like brightly.
The first soap opera ever started watching was Days of Our
Lives. And I started watching it
because they were on a deserted island, like a, like a jungle
tropical island, you know what I'm saying?
So I'm very attracted to bright,vibrant colors in the shows and
I have been struggling with thisseason.
Like even being interested in I think part of it might be the
color that you're talking about.The other part of it is I think

(21:50):
I was really more interested in Maggie and Negan when they were
together on the show. And since they're a part like
the not even not even hate bang.Jokes aside, like their dynamic
together was way more fun than watching them on the on opposite
sides and not being on the screen together.
That's something else that was mentioned in the episode or
Insider. The first thing that was
mentioned was that when Maggie and Negan get together it,

(22:12):
there's this sparks fly tension,there's always going to be that.
And that made sense. That season, the color scheme
did make sense because having the color contrast, the tension
means that things things are just more vibrant and electric
and and somebody could get electrocuted at any moment or a
knife being pulled on them everysingle episode basically of the

(22:33):
season. But this season, since they're
apart, it's more dull and well, and then it doesn't it go to
that article that we read at thebeginning of the 2 episodes ago.
Was it the third episode where we talked about, well, Negan
should die in this season or let's retire this old man, you
know, well, he's so dull? I thought he was retiring
himself there for a second. When he got up and almost fell

(22:55):
down, I was like, oh thank God there's a message.
JD Ms. Like not up. To one minute.
I'll be with you. One minute.
Like talk about the coal miner'scough.
Excuse me, I don't know, maybe. Maybe that will actually change
though, considering where the season seems to be going.

(23:15):
When Bruegel came in onto the scene in the forges area, it did
seem like the color started to shift a little bit because he he
pops, Kim Coates pops a little bit in every single scene he
does, like the yellows he was. One line.
He had one line and it was my favorite line.
Oh, you're not going to say it. Looks like looks like I was late

(23:36):
to the party. I was too busy laughing and
hawing. I didn't hear the.
Did you know this is going why did she turn French when she.
That was my. That was my.
I got excited. I got excited.

(23:56):
I enjoyed that they were using weapons that were obviously from
the museum's Pikes and swords and how birds and like battle
axes and stuff. That's that's a lot of fun.
My favorite thing about last week was the painting.
Like I totally got into learningall about that painting.
Who's going to do the voice whenI do this?

(24:16):
Tap it, Tap it. Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God.
Tap it. Well, and then Speaking of
medieval times, well, I mean, maybe not, but we find out that
Christos is not Greek, but he isDutch, and he has a Dutch
colony, essentially. Well, folks, I didn't even write
this down in my notes, but who founded Manhattan if not the

(24:39):
Dutch originally? The Dutch in the 1600s Was it
1622 and they actually named thefirst ones to name Oh no
Manhattan came from the native peoples, but Wall.
Street Amsterdam it was It was New Amsterdam and then.
Amsterdam and Wall Street was originally named because the

(25:00):
Dutch had built a Pike to wall with dead bodies hanging from
those Pikes to ward off incomingcolonists.
People today have a view of the Dutch as like, you know, they
just grow tulips and smoke weed.But let me tell you something
about the Dutch back in in the 16 to 1700s.
They were vicious. The Dutch East India Company

(25:23):
basically was a country unto itself that did whatever it
wanted to. Well, and also, and well, it
really does dovetail to with Bruegel also Bruegel being a
pietre. Google, Peter, Google Pieter
Bruegel. Bruegel is the Dutch pronounce
it, I think it is. He's a, we talked about about

(25:45):
him a little bit last week. He made social commentary about
the way things were with the aristocracy as opposed to the
ordinary people and how ridiculous things were rather
than how virtuous and aspiring that things were.
And so I, I kind of like to see,well, we won't get to see
anything from Christos's people,I guess maybe unless they're not
through with them yet, which I hope they are really for the

(26:06):
most part. Do you guys talk about where the
Goya painting came from? Came from.
Right. Did you talk about how it was it
was actually in Spain and how that could be a tie in to?
Oh, I didn't talk about the tie in.
But how, right, Because Bruegel,where did Bruegel get it from
Spain? Is it something that, because
now we know that Daryl Dixon's going to be in Spain, so is

(26:27):
there a tie in somewhere where that's how they got the
painting? And it was just, it was just
something I was, I didn't know you guys talked about it or not.
So I had written in my notes forthat episode that when we
finally got confronted with the Met, the Metropolitan Museum of
Art, the signs outside in the apocalypse episode we were
looking at were from today. They were not from back then

(26:49):
back before the apocalypse therefrom exhibits happening
currently right now, yes, yes, yes, I wanted to mention that
just because it's it's it's funny.
It's too funny to like they justdidn't bother going back to see
what photos might have looked like from that time period.
They just said we'll just use what's there now, which is fine.

(27:10):
It's totally fine. Literally happening right now.
It's silly. So the Goya thing, I don't maybe
maybe that's all I can say. It's it's, it's it would be,
it's a kind of a tongue in cheek, I think, I guess
reference to it. But we did talk about where it
came from, who did it, right? It was in his home in, I forget
exactly where, but they were actually taken from the walls of
his home. So they were actually cut out of

(27:32):
the walls from his home to be displayed on frames.
I remember us talking about the painting itself.
I just don't. I couldn't remember if we talked
about that particular aspect of it, about the possibility of the
connection between Daryl and Spain and the painting coming
from Spain. How did Bruegels get it from
Spain? Brutal.
Brutal, brutal. The bird always knows.
So that actually having it referred to Roxana's uncle who

(27:56):
made children happy and tried togive them a little bit of
advice, but use the bird as a vehicle for that excuse.
But she also says, do you want to know what sad is?
Because she's relaying this to Pearly knowing what he always
knew the end was going to be andcontinuing to run away from that
choice. And if you don't make that
choice, a choice is going to be made for you.
Essentially. It's all in how you face that

(28:17):
choice and whether you stay ahead of it, whether you meet it
or whether you fall behind it and have the choice made for
you. And then it it's out of your
hands at that point, then you'renot prepared.
But also, it's the same thing with Roxanna's uncle, though,
too. When she talked about how in
Iran her uncle was conscripted to fight the Iraqis or the war
in Iraq, that really struck A chord with me because my dad had

(28:40):
told me a long time ago that when they were living in Syria,
what the Ottomans did to fight the French was they conscripted
his uncle and his father's father to the front lines.
And this is what they did commonly for with the Jews in
the region. You know, we had Jews in Syria,
Morocco, Lebanon, Iraq, all overthe Middle East, North Africa,

(29:02):
Libya, Tunisia, Egypt and Algeria.
And what ended up happening is was many of the leaders in those
countries to fight, you'd say tofight colonialism, but there was
conquests all around the region.And essentially what happened
was Ottomans were the last one of the last empires basically in
the region before they started drawing mandates to towards
independence. And all the, a lot of the Jews

(29:23):
were drafted to fight the, the colonist forces to fight in the
front lines. And they never came back.
And this this story kind of resonated with me as well.
Like, do you know what's sad is dying for nothing, essentially
being sent to the front line specifically to die for nothing
to get rid of a problem, which maybe will bring us to a
parallel in this episode. And that is a question.

(29:46):
Do you think that the Dhamma sent Negan alone her intention
to Chris Sauce to get rid of herown problem?
I thought she sent him mostly toanger the Croat, like Needle the
Croat. I mean that that was just my
take on it. Like she was like, no, no, you
stay here. I'm going to send Negan because

(30:06):
he can get it done while you I can't do anything without me.
I'm the only reason you could. But I can see what you're
saying. It's.
What it feels like too, because if you think about she sent him
without the methane, but he tookmethane with him anyway.
See, that's the thing. He was, he was not supposed to
bring the methane originally. It's like, oh, what do we?
Because that worked out so well for you the first time, but he
took it anyway. Well, apparently the Croat

(30:27):
provided it with him. There was no conversation.
That was what was so weird. It wasn't supposed to bring the
methane, according to their conversation with the dama, but
he ended up bringing anyway. I guess maybe the Croat was
waiting in the car or something or I don't know, but I guess it
was there and you know that it was brought by the Croat because
the Croat had told his men to, you know, release the the

(30:48):
methane throughout their conversation.
They're however, an hour long conversation.
It could go either way. But by feeling was similar to
Roxana's conversation with Hurley.
I think the Dhamma was trying totell Megan, Oh, but we're having
so much fun, you know. But I guess, well, it's not
strange for her to do that. If you go back to the Goya
painting itself, what was the Goya painting depicting?

(31:08):
She knows Negan is a top dog that has had power pro.
I talked a big game about Negan,why they need him, what he
managed to do all by himself. And if she allowed Negan to
stick around long enough, she knows that Negan would climb
over her rule and take over, wouldn't he?
And having that being held over him, his his kids.

(31:30):
I feel like that's kind of what he just did.
He totally orchestrated that. Although I I don't know that he
knew it would end with her death, but he figured he was
going to take one of them out and either one of them is either
one of them is somebody he wouldhave to step over to to lead
again. But does he really want to lead
again? Or does he just want to find out
where Annie and Joshua are? No, I I totally agree with you.

(31:51):
I think, I think he would ratherdeal with one at a time and
whichever one was going to be taken out.
Now here's the thing. Would he have preferred to take
out the Croat or the Dharma? Is the question.
He knows what the Croat will do,right?
He could probably second guess his moves.
Whereas like maybe that Damo wasmore inscrutable to him.
He doesn't understand how she operates and how she thinks.

(32:13):
So she was more of a danger because she is more volatile for
him because he can handle the Croat, whereas handling her is a
different story. Rather than outright killing her
and he's outright killing her, which wouldn't be good because
then everybody would turn against him, you know?
So he has to figure out a way toto handle her without just
outright killing her. Right, including the Croat.

(32:34):
The crow would be upset if he was going to take out her.
It might even be that he took out two birds with one stone,
because are the people going to turn on the Croat once they
realize what he's done and Negan's going to be who they
naturally look towards? The Barazi follow the Croat
essentially, right? I mean.
You know, they're, they're his army.
Really. Yeah.
I don't think she he was lying when he said I gave you

(32:54):
everything. Like you may have brought me
back to life, but I'm the one who did everything else.
Yeah, I don't, I don't disagree with that.
And I don't even know. Negan may be reluctant to kill
the Croat even just due to he didn't kill him the first time
around. And he could have, he could have
and he didn't. I don't think he intended it to
necessarily work out this specific way.

(33:17):
I think he thought maybe he was getting the Croat out of the
way. The thing is that the Croat is
too volatile and that and he's like screwing things up.
And Negan's just trying to get this plan to work so that the
Dhamma feels like he's completing the job that he
agreed to do so that he can keephis family safe.
But the croc keeps throwing wrenches in that because he
reacts with his emotions. And so like, he comes in and he

(33:40):
like, and he's like, hey, oh, yeah, I've been poisoning you
all. And then he's like, can't.
Be established without. And he even says, like the
Dhamma told you to kill them. And he is reluctant to say
anything because that's not whathe was asked to do.
He's going above and beyond because every time she stepped

(34:00):
on his ego a little, he then went full force the other
direction, which is he's supposed to be cleaning up his
mess. He made twice the mess.
That's interesting too, because that's I was going to ask you
about that next, because I was wondering whether, because I
think you may be right, that theDhamma did not explicitly say to
kill all those people. However, I wonder whether that's

(34:21):
what the Dhamma, whether that was the Dhamma, wanted all along
from the Croat. And then the criticism is all
meant to get him to do what she ultimately wants him to do
anyway. You don't have an army if you
kill everyone. I'm sorry but like it's, it's
foolish. I could see that being your end
game months from now, but it can't happen now.
You need an army to defend against New Babylon, and your

(34:44):
head guy is out here just axing everybody off.
Like, don't worry about it, I'm taking care of it because my
pride was hurt and you're like, okay, well how are we going to
defend in Manhattan now? Well, that's what I wonder.
I think that's why she sent Negan.
Now you weren't there when I mentioned this, but I think she
said that is why I know I think she sent Negan to get rid of

(35:04):
him. She sent him.
She was he was supposed to go without the methane originally
because he the cross like we'll give him methane.
She's like you idiot. Why would we give them stuff?
Because they're ass a holes and then Negan gets the methane and
brings it anyway, because I guess the car was probably
riding in tow. He's like in the car.
So he gets the methane anyway. He was supposed to come alone
with nothing. And this is just after the

(35:25):
conversation they had about Annie and Joshua.
Like, OK, this is it, right? That's it.
And I get my kid and my wife, right?
No operative word is deal bitch.Because like, obviously he's
doing it on purpose. Like, can we cut to the chase?
I'm not going to get strung along here as this is you.
This was the deal, right? I didn't want to do this to

(35:46):
begin with, but you promised something deliver.
So she sent him out there all alone, knowing very well that he
humiliated, he humiliated Christos in the last episode or
two, two episodes of our three episodes, at the first episode.
Sure, yeah. The bonus side of that is if
Christos takes out Negan, I think he would actually be

(36:07):
amenable to joining the Dhamma's'cause right?
Because if you take out the feela little bit more emboldened,
like, well, like, I mean, I got rid of the guy that kind of
humiliated me so. But maybe he has a point.
It was, I mean it was an unusualchoice on her and to send Negan
if she wanted, but she keeps saying like Negan is perpetually

(36:27):
disappointing her. But Negan is.
Perpetually disappointing like he's not he's not living up to
the hype that she thought he. Would also cause.
The crowd really talked him up as this like really vilified guy
and he's just not that guy anymore.
He really wasn't doing that goodof a job until he noticed the
little kids and that totally changed the way he approached
it. And that approach is what got

(36:49):
him, well, almost got almost gotthem to join.
Which nobody could have expected, really.
That's the key, right? Had had she known about his
history with children, Regardless of what weird things
you can draw up to say no, he never looked children, but they
just said Rick on him. Whatever.
That's what we're going with. Yeah.

(37:09):
I mean, Negan did OK. Season 8 of The Walking Dead, we
find out. I mean, what is Gracie if not an
example of that, whom Aaron eventually adopts?
Like the whole idea of that was that, yes, there were children
there. Yes, there are parents and
families that he was protecting regardless of his methods.
Him being the top dog, deciding every little thing and allowing
the lieutenants to run amok. The whole point was to have a

(37:32):
system whereby people can actually have families
eventually and babies and whatnot, that there was supposed
to be something there for peopleto flourish.
And so seeing that, it changes tack.
The dama sees Negan, and she sees that the showboat, the
actor with whom she can criticize as the critic, but she
doesn't see why. What was that?
For All she knows is the blusterand not the business.

(37:54):
Yeah, I don't think she knows asmuch as she's.
But all of this. While we were talking, I thought
of something rather fascinating.And this will take me back to
the beginning of the episode eventually.
But for now, I feel like the Dhamma only really criticizes
people A she trusts and B, she actually cares about.
Like, who does she tear into themost out of every single person?

(38:16):
The Croat, right? Do you know anybody You know,
because I'm going to say this, I'm going to call up my mom
right now. But the people you love the most
and you guys too, you guys criticize me all the time.
So I know that you love me so. And you're just perpetuating the
drama I have with my own mother right now.
Oh great. Oh great.
So, you know, just calling you guys out for called for, you

(38:37):
know, being who you are with me.I had a therapist that would
have just said that you were doomed to repeat this melodrama
for the rest of your. Life, right?
What is it called now? There's that cycle of what was
the the specific phrase of that?I said the melodrama.
Oh, right. Yeah, That's cyclical melodrama.
That's what it was called. Yeah.
So. But there is this logic to that.
The people who love you the mostare going to be the the most

(38:58):
brutal with you. They're going to be the ones
that first in line to criticize you as well they should in no
way, but don't. Maybe just remember.
That you're a person like only sometimes.
We're not going to get into this.
Only sometimes. I'm not going to box yourself.
I'm not going. To box your mom on this podcast,
but. There is a science to that.
And and it's because even when Negan was defending the crowd,

(39:20):
she's like, I'm not talking to you right now.
She just like, no, I I want to lay into the person I actually
care about, whom I can feel freeto because I love this person
well. You do that with people you feel
most comfortable with. Yeah.
Which often we view as love and intimacy in some regard.
I'm not saying like physical intimacy, but just like close

(39:41):
family like. Maybe if she has that over him I
could see how easily he could have been swayed.
Well, I mean, he wanted. That.
He wanted that. Why else did he dress like a
bellhop? Did he deny him for her the role
play it was? Wrong.
It was her. Role play, yeah.
No, no, because he thought he was dressing nice for her.
Oh, no, I know that on the surface, but as a joke role

(40:02):
play? Gross.
That may take you up to the 14thfloor.
There's no 13th floor. Just looking at you very funny,
right? Now I hate it.
Yeah, I hate it. Then you.
Well, that does take us back to the beginning of the episode.
I want to touch on this really briefly because the first thing
you see in here is the crop picking out outfits.
Why is he picking out a nice outfit?

(40:24):
For some reason for the Dhamma first of all.
For the Dhamma. OK, why?
That's what I think because. He wants to impress her.
She's he's not happy with him. She's putting in.
Yeah, she's in the backseat withNegan now.
She's losing his grip. Every scene that we've seen with
him, he's been trying to vie forlike her affections.
He wants to impress her, he wants her to be happy with him.

(40:46):
And ever since he brought Negan into the picture, it's been
nothing but disappointment. So I think he was trying to
like, you know, himself up a little bit like a lady.
I I'm on your level because he really does.
We're. Partners here's the thing like,
you know he doesn't he's he's crass, right?
Like he's a crass man, but deep down, like he does have an

(41:10):
appreciation for the arts. We've seen him singing so often
I mean like he does have an appreciation for the arts.
It's just that presented, it's presented differently.
I'm going to can I pull a Sharoni right now?
Because this feels like this is a Sharoni comment.
May I? The Sharoni comment would be
like, there's all these suits with these nice shirts paired
with them. And he puts on the, we're going

(41:30):
to call it the bellhop suit, thered suit.
But then he he wears the shirt he always wears underneath it,
and it's just like they was right there.
The shirt was Change your shirt,change your shirts, right the
Cheridy tone. I wonder when you were going
with that. But yes, that is 1. 100% true.
Change your dirty Ruddy Gray shirt with for that nice square.

(41:57):
You know the perpendicular linedwhite shirt that would have
looked fly on Jelco Eventic, so I thought it was a missed
opportunity there. It looks like a bellhop either
way, I guess I don't. Know yeah, I guess so yeah maybe
maybe. And all these ugly ties he was
trying to pair with that dumb. Well, I don't I'm not going to
say he's a dumb suit, but I feelbad because I feel bad for him.

(42:19):
Poor guy doesn't have any fashion sense.
My goodness, just the yellow mustard tot.
What are you doing, guy? Anyway, I I guess I built up to
this point because the first thing you hear when the episode
starts is Tija by Darko Rundek and song I translated and it is

(42:45):
basically a love song. Wow.
But really, it's OK. I'm going to tell you the words,
but it's going to lead up to this.
We walk a little. I'm going to use the Crow out
place. Oh man, this is offensive.
We walk. Oh no, don't.
Do it, don't do it. We walk alone.
I'm running through the streets of the city.
It is deep night and the rain falls softly.

(43:07):
I'm watching romantic. I'm watching your ear that's
missing. I'm looking at your nose.
For a really long time, we weren't that close, Right,
Right, Right. OK, sure.
Teeja means you and me, and that's the chorus of the song.
You and you and I, essentially. Here's the second first if love
naked over the wet rooftops of the city.
It's a pleasant night and our bodies are young.

(43:30):
That had to be read that way. Guys, I'm so sorry.
Doesn't that say something that says a lot?
Because if you're right and thatthey haven't gotten together,
the song is basically implying we're partners and we've been
together for a long time. And what are we waiting for?
What have we been waiting for? Let's do, let's come on.
There's no. He says right before he's trying

(43:51):
to make peace, quote UN quote. There's no time to waste, right?
Let's make peace. Time is running out.
We have to get our act together.Right.
Rob Luke Casey. Hey, son.
Yeah, in the chat. Hey, right, Blue Casey.
Right. Rob Luke Casey has no time to
waste. Dom and the crutch.
They got to bump uglies, bang itout and let's just get this job
done. But the last it is I'm.

(44:13):
So glad she died so this never happened.
The last it is not to be. You could have just said it.
Why don't you unmute Rachel? Too scared.
Look, the cat is planning devious action.
She. Is look at it.
She's right next to my microphone.
This is again, we have many notches in the human supremacy
group right now, just like saying.
Hi, Rob. It's me on the at K, you know

(44:34):
what I'm saying? 86 the at K what?
You shut your face. I'm kidding, I just wanted to
get your thoughts on that love song I.
Well, yeah. Should I get to the bridge?
Soft images lull us to sleep. Morning noises.
We leave a message. Hey, that's the last the word of

(44:54):
the of the bridge. Hey, I have to say this because
I don't know what the translation of this means, but
the first word of the bridge is potato.
Oh, my little potato. That's kind of what.
I'm. Thinking if it's my kind of love
song. I love a potato.

(45:15):
I do too. Chili chives.
You name it cheese, I'll take a potato anyway you make it.
Yep, drown it in butter, baby. Sure.
Deep fry it. Whatever you got for me,
whatever. You want to a potato on?
I mean twice. Bake it.
Mash it, flash fry it. Yeah, twice over, right?
Anyway. Yeah, basically I'm Bubba Gump
Poker. Potatoes.

(45:35):
Yeah. Yeah.
Forgot scallop it. I don't care.
Do whatever you. Want potato salad sandwich?
Rub it down Potato, baby got potato.
I was arguing with somebody online.
Not too long ago when they called me a potato like it was
an, I was like, dude, that's, that's not even.

(45:57):
Versatile. Everybody loves potatoes.
Tag of facts, Ireland. Word to your mother.
I don't know. Doom.
Doom Doom Doom Doom Doom. I.
Don't. Care whether something happened
between Dama and Croat or not. But I'm I'm upset she's gone.

(46:20):
I was enjoying that character. What was the thing that was
stolen from her? We'll never know.
These things that The Walking Dead does tell.
Us. I was so happy.
I I'm not, I'm not, but who elseknows besides the people that
are with? First of all, let's assume she's
telling the truth about Negan's family for just a second.

(46:40):
Who else besides her knew where they were?
Whoever she sent to. Give them exactly so.
So the person who's with them currently is the only person
that even knew. Now what?
So now Negan has nothing. Like nothing.
Well, she doesn't technically, technically know anything
either, because all she knows isthat I'm guessing they're in
Appalachia. Am I saying it right?

(47:00):
Pigeons or something, I don't know.
Bridget. Judgment.
Bridget. Appalachia.
Yeah, Appalachia. OK, not Appalachia.
Correct latch not not Liege. Gotcha.
She's so she's assuming that sheate that that they found.
Gross. You guys say it like that.
It is gross. Well, she's assuming that they
found The Smiths first of all. They don't.

(47:22):
She. Does she know?
She's assuming they're on their way back.
Oh, they must be over Hepalachianow.
I'll pray for them. Really.
Really. I don't know, she said that.
Why did you do the tap it? That's what she did.
She tapped. I'll pray for them.
She does. She does do that.
Why are we tapping things? I don't know, man.

(47:44):
Tap it. Oh, that's another thing, right?
She taps Negan. Tap it and Google people didn't
tap. Not a great parallel.
No, I'm just obsessed with that part of that last episode.
Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God.I feel like that's a play.
Like he's literally in a musical, like a Sondheim

(48:07):
musical. Oh my God, it dances in like
this with arms astride. Anyway, whatever, whatever,
let's move on. I'm late to the potty.
Oh yeah, OK, so let's go to thatfor a hot second because shaving
a haircut, 2 bits. The knock on the door.

(48:28):
I didn't notice it. I love that.
Cute. Very cute.
That's here either. He see or he couldn't.
See the TV so that I couldn't hear.
It don't you hate that when you can't see your TV, you can't
hear it? That's what Negan did.
Alexandria. Yeah, he did with the bats.
That's right. When I heard it, I was like, oh

(48:50):
Dang, Negan showed up. I'm like why?
That's who I thought it was like.
Yeah, a million thoughts and then that have, well you saw the
you saw the process. Then it was Brugal, and then it
was and it was BAE. And what is it meant to tell us?
Because what did I say in the episode prior?
What did he whisper into Brugal's ear?
I was wrong about it. I'd said, well, I assumed he was
like, dude, I know your guys. I know your.

(49:13):
Yeah, I know your secrets. Fine.
In addition to that, in additionto that, I thought he said to
Bruegel in the last episode, it's going to rob.
Lucas was thinking before that he had commented on the TikTok
clip that we post about the secret that he told Bruegel.
And part of it was, yes, Tony, his Walker battle biter, but

(49:34):
also, where is the methane? Saint Patrick's Cathedral.
He tells Maggie this, and it wouldn't be strange if he told
Brugal this, but he didn't. I guess, interestingly enough,
he probably said to Brugal, if you want to know where the
methane is, go to the foragers, because I entrusted that to
Maggie to decide what she wants to do with it.
So I'm not wrong, but I'm not. Right to well, here's here's a

(49:56):
theory, David and when. You get there.
Here's the shave and a haircut to bits.
Knock, because that'll make the audience change.
He did not have time to say all of that.
It was quite a long whisper session, by the way.
All of. This no.
Here's why. Whispered for like 5.
Minutes here is where the methane is, and if you want to
go here, it's in the middle of Central Park.
And then if you go here and you go there, see, that's enough.
Right. No, he was like, that's it bro,

(50:18):
I know your secret. That's.
Secrets out. It was a.
Long ass whisper. Secrets out, babe, it was.
Long enough to kind of stand up and go, What are you?
What's happening? What's I mean, there's a
careless whisper which takes 2 seconds and then there's is he
Oh. My God, I should have noticed
Uncle Fester before. Exactly.

(50:41):
He had enough time to even mention that.
Here's my wild theory. OK, here's my wild theory.
Here's my wild theory. Nobody knows what I just did, by
the way, on the audio podcast. Just stood up like the signals
and you got a crotch shot I guess.
And Uncle Fester, for whatever reason.
Did I swish? Did I swish?

(51:02):
You should have swish. You did like this.
Awkward. Rotation.
Yeah, what is he doing? What is being spoken about at
this moment? I think that Bruegel is the one
who cut the wire. I think Bruegel did it and I
think that he left that knife there because he won all of
Christos weapons. I don't.

(51:25):
Disagree with that? And Christos was like I don't
know what the F this dude is talking.
About which is fair. I'm about to pass because he.
Sounded crazy because he soundedabsolutely crazy and everyone
looked like they were in really rough shape at that point.
Christos. Would have admitted it too,
right? Like why wouldn't he admit?
Be like, yeah, right, I took your power out like that would
be a crucial. Thing well, I mean there's

(51:47):
there's refusing to fight your army and then also not making
the dumb mistake of being on theother side of that war right,
because if they're fighting withnew Babylon, why would you want
to be in the crosshairs as you he?
Doesn't seem like the smartest dude.
But isn't the thing that we learned with this conversation
with Negan is that they're the same?
The only reason why they didn't get along is because like meets

(52:09):
like and there's a repulsion effect because the whole thing
with Christos was that he is Negan.
He needs to be this way to a first of all not look weak,
which is a theme of this episode.
People do the wildest things when they think they look in
weak. Thank you, Rob.
Rob sees my genius. Thank you.
Rob, I'm with you 100% too. I think we're on the same side,

(52:31):
Rob. I think that Bruegel, I think
this is part of Bruegel's. I said a first.
Actually, Rob, somehow, even though nobody heard me say it, I
don't. Know I'm on your side about
about you being right, Bridget. That's what I'm on the same.
Why are we fighting, Bridget? Is it because you love me?
Shut up Dave, I hate you right now.
Not your mother. So I I'm not your mom.

(52:54):
Dave, stop. It's weird.
It's weird 'cause I'm younger than you.
It's weird. That is weird to some degree.
Rachel's right. Like he's not a great leader
because of the gambling. It's like he should have just
called. He's got a gambling.
Problem he's got a little bit. It was like, I've got to dig
myself back. No, I have to dig myself back

(53:14):
out and it's like, OK, well thisis a self like perpetuating
thing. Then you're going to continue.
To lose because the game is. Fixed.
Well, he at least he figured it out.
Yeah, like, yeah, I've got to cut my loss.
And we lost our home and I have children.
I said it like that. I said what I said.
He lost everything, Yeah, basically.
Again. Yeah, but I think this is the

(53:37):
game that Bruegel's playing is like, well, I'll just play them
against each other and then and then I'll take whoever is left,
which is already down another army and down the leader of the
the head quote, UN quote army. And who was that if not Negan
too? I'll just play them against each
other and see. He just did that this episode
too. Yeah, he did.

(54:00):
This is so. It's getting so good.
Not confusing, but so many parallels.
Do unto others. What you do unto others would do
unto you, would do unto you. And then where does that leave
Herschel to? There is, and also there's the
parallel of of like the Dahmer really died because of her own
hubris. It's very similar to Negan's
story, like the inability to seethat maybe someone would be

(54:24):
tough enough or stern enough or even just consistent enough to
be able to take you down. Oh, persistent.
Yeah, right. I see what you're saying.
Sorry, persistent would be a more accurate word.
I have the same thought this episode too.
So really it's like the yeah, like the crot does the deed.
Technically one it's accidental because like it he's he couldn't
have done it on purpose. I don't think.
I don't think it was in him. He loves her too much.

(54:45):
But given the opportunity to savor, he goes, maybe not.
I heard him say. That and that's weird.
Croatian voice. Maybe not.
And he walked away. I'm.
Going to run away he's going to narrate to you I'm going to run
away sorry I want to just like Iwant to I want to just I want

(55:06):
the Korat following me everywhere and narrating
everything I do now there's a pain in my tummy so I go to the
bathroom no OK I have feelings going to eat now this is me the.
More you do it, the more you sound like a vampire.
It does. It's in the.
Neighborhood. I want to suck your what I.
Want to suck your Croat? I don't.

(55:28):
Anyway, whenever I'm done, it's fine.
I'm sorry, it's getting to be like you're doing Bruegel, doing
the Croat. I want that carrot.
Carrot. It pleases me to have a carrot
it pleases. Me to have more carrots read.
The chat read The Shepherd. Well, Rob, it's Croatian.
No, Rob says. Herschel's going to flip out
when he finds out that she's dead.

(55:49):
Oh yes, brother. You are right, Rob.
You are right. Me maybe, maybe that's kind of
what I wanted to get was the thedoor that you thought was a?
Rat, I'm sorry, there's a haunting do.
Not you'll be visited by someone.
Called Zach Baggins. Where's the chains?
The chains, The little chains onthe ground anyway, so not bad,

(56:13):
but that's actually what I want to get to next.
Throughout this episode, there'sa bunch of people who are
doubling down because they feel like if they don't, I'll look
weak. Ginny does this with the gun to
Herschel when Maggie gets the jump on Nirviahs.
And because if I don't, I can't get what I want.
If I don't do this, point a gun at Herschel, I'm not going to
get what I want. But then when she sees the

(56:35):
prospect of the comedy of errorsthat she's done to lead Maggie
to the point where she has a noose around her neck, I think
she relents. And so does Herschel, which gets
him to finally admit, yes, this woman that I drew is a real
person who happens to just be a nice person who thought, in his
view, that wanted a better future for New York.
She was just a nice person who wanted to know what I thought.

(56:57):
And because of that, she. Just a nice person held me
captive and cut off my toe. Do it in the voice of your
students. Right.
Isn't that though? Isn't it the same thing though?

(57:17):
Yeah, it's the same. It's the same, same, same
energy, right? I just was thinking about the
Stockholm syndrome thing that's going on with Herschel and the
dama. But we are looking at that
through our modern day lives. We're not looking at it through
Herschel's eyes. Herschel, who has already been
through stuff like this before. He's seen other people go
through stuff like this. To him, being kidnapped in your

(57:40):
toe cut off is just par for the course.
That is just what happens to everybody in this world
eventually. Maybe not that exactly, but
something is going to happen just to you all the time because
that is how he is. That is how he's lived his
entire life. Is something is always happening
to me or take my. Family or to people?
I love right. So for for him, it's like, well,
at least sure, she kidnapped me and she did terrible things, but

(58:01):
hey, she was nice to me and she let me draw and she promoted my
art and encouraged me to expressmyself, which is unusual in this
world. So us yes, looking at like, how
could he do that? But looking at it from his point
of view, it's it's not that hardto understand.
Honestly, it, it really helped me see his point of view a
little bit better. Because if you do think about
it, like outside of all the brainwashing that we see from

(58:23):
the objective viewpoint, there is something to be said about
like, I mean, in a way she was persuading him to be on her
side. She wasn't.
She initially roughed him up. It was her orders to for the
crow had to beat him up initially.
But everything was all in her court after that to make her
look the best. Yeah, I know it's kind of
insidious in a way. But if you think about it, to

(58:44):
soften up somebody to that pointwhere they can accept your
vision as your vision as their vision, that sort of thing.
I mean, what's what's the harm in it really?
I mean, you're probably and you're giving me a seat at the
table. Also, so we want to go back to
the old way, the old way. But people who were born in the
time, in the old times are terrible people.

(59:04):
They're fighting and murdering and killing everybody.
So why would he even be interested in going back to
something that is the old world,that is the old way?
And here's this. Person.
Who who isn't pushing him, trying to push him backwards?
But in like, yeah, I understand you can move forward in this
world and be something other than what your mom and everybody

(59:25):
is pressuring you to be. That is from the past.
I mean, I totally understand what she's saying.
And I think it's it's amazing that she as a person of her
advanced age who lived in the past world can understand where
his vision is coming from, whichmaybe she lost a son who had
that same vision. And that's what she is always
like. I lost this.

(59:46):
But she now has someone else that she can pass.
Like, look, you, it's OK that you don't want to be the same
way that everybody. What else was?
Look at how terrible it is. Look at how terrible these
people are. All they want to do is build up
these things and then kill everybody.
Right. The Walking Dead is people.
I was with you. Like I thought for sure she had
like lost a son or something, but now I'm starting to think

(01:00:07):
that the thing that was taken from her was her work, her
prestige. Yeah, but she doesn't even want
that back. That's so.
That's a whole other thing, right, Isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she says like if something
was taken from me and so we assumed it was a person.
And I'm starting to think that maybe it was like her line of
work and what she was doing because because she bit someone.
And wouldn't that be the thing she lost a long time ago, before

(01:00:30):
way before the apocalypse even happened?
But yeah. She obviously didn't learn from
the past where criticism is concerned.
I just I just. She can't get cancelled.
I thought it was really funny that her go to is biting people.
I like that that OK, I get it that.
Is hilarious. I get it.
I've wanted to bite people too. I totally understand.

(01:00:53):
It's like a natural react. That's our our lizard brain
coming out, right. We can't, we can't function just
like, oh, we're going to argue be like, no, I'm going to eat
that part. I get it.
I totally get it. Yeah.
I mean, an Eastern European snack is pointing in your face.
You just got to bite that snack.Crunchy snack potato.

(01:01:13):
He's a potato. He's a little kind of a looking
at like a potato. Anyway, it is very appealing to
jump to your point, Sharon. It is very, very, very, very
appealing to jump from constant terror on the road because
that's the choice your mom made something interesting.
Let me go here and then we'll goback to that really briefly
because in the in the episode orinsider, as we are want to call

(01:01:33):
it since Bridget called it initially, just to give you
context, Rob Lucchesi, and we'llread your comment in a second.
One of the first thing that was said, and I'll repeat it again,
is that Maggie and Egan when they get together, it's just
instant tension. But part of that is, and I noted
this as the more they talked about it, using less words
really, then more physical, likethey just bumped fists like it's

(01:01:56):
the only way Jeffrey D Morgan could explain it.
When Megan you can get together,it's you know, just bumping
fists tension anyway. But like but it was brought up
in this episode. Why didn't Maggie kill Negan?
Nervais says this, you know, I'll take care of it.
It's fine because I want to. I want the excuse.

(01:02:16):
I want the permission, appeal toauthority.
But why not? And I finally figured it out and
maybe I could get your opinions on this because why does Maggie
do which? Why is she this constant dramedy
of errors? Why is this decision she's
always making these decisions that feel wonky or off or like
she's not the hero of her own story.
She's constant victim. Well, if every decision that you

(01:02:39):
make, you pin on this one fella,that you're this perpetual
victim or that you, you have everything, every bad mistake
that you make, Meridian, all thepeople who died, the Wardens,
any, any Georgie, maybe even we don't really know what her fate
was essentially. But if you can pin that on one
person because you let them live, right, they're still
walking around. When you pin that resentment on

(01:03:00):
somebody out of necessity and you never have to blame yourself
for everything that's gone wrong, you can always go back to
that. It's all because of him.
It's all because of him. If you kill him, there's nobody
to blame but yourself. Why would you want to kill that
person? How can you possibly face all
the errors that you've ever and again, who can blame Maggie for?
Make everybody makes mistakes, even if you make them over and

(01:03:22):
over again. It's not like you're trying to
do the same thing over and over again.
You're trying these things out. You're trying what Rick did
didn't work over and over again and it's hard to face those
mistakes, but he did. I can easily see somebody not
wanting to face the fact that they've tried over and over
again. It hasn't worked.
And then after trying to go to settlement and settlement,
settlement and settlement and trying to live on the road, like
Bridget said last week, trying that out and seeing if that

(01:03:44):
works because homes don't work, right.
All the wardens Meridian went away.
That didn't that was even worse.So you know, if if this guy is
walking around living, you can always blame that one person.
I mean, that's why she doesn't kill Negan.
She can always rely on that to be an excuse.
You said, you know, constant being on the road, constant
terror, but it's also in the idea that even your safe places

(01:04:06):
aren't safe, right? So he go, they go to Alexandria
was supposed to be the safe place this harbor and they still
have stuff go wrong. They're in Meridian, which is
supposed to be safe and even that goes to crap.
So it's not even just being on the road.
It's that there's no safety anywhere.
Even at the bricks where they'vebeen relatively safe for a
while. Even that has been invaded.

(01:04:27):
And so they're taking. Over there's.
No place safe. And I think that might be the
difference between the old and the new.
The old, we yearn for a place ofsafety.
We yearn for safety and be safe.And that just doesn't exist
anymore. And like that's the world that
you have to grow up in is you just can't be afraid of
everything because everything isterrifying.

(01:04:47):
You'll just, you'll just live your life in constant fear,
which is what our old people from the old world do, right?
We're scared of everything. We're scared of walkers, we're
scared of people. We're scared of losing our
settlement. And I feel like that may be the
difference between the old and the and the kids that have grown
up in this fear is just, it's just there.
There's no getting away from it.You can't build your way out of

(01:05:09):
it. There's no getting away from it.
It's always going to be there. Which is what we talked about
last week, right? There's just nothing to compare
it to and the. Older you get right?
Right, all they've ever known. Isn't the whole thing, the older
you get the hardest for you to change to if you think about it,
like and if you're if you live long enough and Tomic kind of
says this. I've lived too long to rethink
the world. I know what I know and I can't
unknown what I know in order to make this new reality.

(01:05:32):
And isn't that Maggie in a sensetoo?
I mean, I've known what it meansto be safe even into the
apocalypse at her at her father's farm.
They had a good setup. They until Rick came, but they
had a good setup for quite a while and it worked for the long
for the longest time and she even before that.
I'm sure it worked for the longest time.
Another instance of our group shows up and destroys

(01:05:54):
everything. Hey foragers, how you doing?
We're going to destroy. Some Maggie Maggie only had to
be a catalyst for the New Babylon people to just take
themselves out through incompetence.
We're weaponizing that incompetence, right, Ron?
And one took out everybody. What a disappointing of Dasha.

(01:06:15):
What an underwhelming use of such a great actress in that
role. Like she there's no story arc,
there's no character growth. We don't find anything out about
her. She's just someone who wants to
kill everybody because they won't do what she says.
Not that Dasha didn't do great. She was great.
It's not her fault. It's not her fault, but she
wasn't given anything to do except just be menacing.
This. Is going to sound awful or

(01:06:36):
weird? Do you think she's done yet?
Is she dead? I mean, she will be soon, but is
she dead? Well they were ripping the side
of her neck out, so I'm fairly sure she's going to be dead.
I don't know. Or do you think this is like a
whatever that guy's name was where he like showed?
Whaling. Yeah, like whaling.
Killing Joan, shoving the sign through her leg.

(01:06:56):
I feel like she's she's dead. They were.
No one's gone until they're gone, so.
Well, I mean, for that matter, we didn't actually see the Dom
of Burn, so she could show up inthe next episode.
Body double. Body double, right?
That's no, that's unusual. Like soap operas.
Oh, it's my evil twin who died, Lester.

(01:07:16):
No, she, she shows up, but she'slike in bandages, like a mummy.
Can I just say how annoyed I waswith with Maggie when she was
standing on that stool with the noose around her neck and all
hell is breaking loose and she'sjust standing there.
Girl, your hands are tied in front of you.
After Jenny put you back up on the block, you were able to put

(01:07:40):
your hands around the Why did you stand there and watch
everything going crazy and wait to get knocked off of your perch
instead of just taking the nooseoff your neck?
It's just. It's just.
I can answer this one. I can answer this one.
They had guns. They were all getting eaten.
They weren't paying any attention to what she was doing.
They were all getting eaten by by walkers.
Well, they were weirdly ignoringthe eating and were paying

(01:08:01):
attention to Maggie so. Loud they couldn't hear the
eating right they they don't sound like big apples that
they're. Because of the what?
Yeah, it was so loud. The damning was so but.
Even Nervais didn't scream when she got bitten.
She was like, OK, I'm getting bitten.
That's kind of ironic, isn't it?Right.
Everybody else is wailing and Nervais is like taking it like a

(01:08:21):
champ. They all sounded like a like a
champ car. The slow motion It was a.
It was a very. Austin Powers, I think it was
the slow. Movie that was us two years ago.
It was really reminded, No, it reminded me of it wasn't Austin

(01:08:43):
Powers wasn't like a steamrolleror something like that.
And then the soldiers like 3550 feet.
Away. It's a guy from Mad TV, Yeah.
Yeah, it looks at watch, it juststands there.
That's us. OK, so I do have a question
relating to this scene in which Maggie is being hung.

(01:09:04):
Which one was a very unusual scene.
The moaning, I have to say is really off putting.
Just something about it. Like it like it UN it's UN.
I shouldn't say off putting, it's.
Unsettling. That's better off putting.
It's unsettling. F these people.
F what they're doing. Yeah, not that, not that it's
like, unsettling. It like makes me so
uncomfortable. So you're like New Babylon at
that moment. You're like, yeah.
And I'm just like I don't like. This like that was the.

(01:09:29):
Thing I was like, no, they should be allowed to.
They're they should be allowed to more in however way they see
fit to. Don't just punch that guy right
in the nose. Although he had it coming right
with the dreads. Come on.
Oh OK, looks like a weird anyway.
Anyway, anyway, moving on. I'm kidding.
So Ginny? Ginny is fighting with a Walker
and falls over. She falls into that.

(01:09:50):
Stabbed so. She she had backed into what
would like I. Thought it had gotten her on the
side, but then she it shows thatscene where she lifts up.
Everybody's kind of like before.Burgle shows up and she lives up
her shirt and it is through her.It was on.
Her side. Yeah, it was like a deep gash on
her side and it was like a wasn't like a spike sticking out
of the gate or something like that, that she backed into it.

(01:10:11):
Yeah. Into a yeah.
I was reading and I was reading a of recap and they were like
she got bit and I'm like no she did not get bitten.
So that was I didn't go back andrewatch.
No, no, no. I.
Had to go back and rewatch it because I was like, was she bit
and is she the kind of person who doesn't say anything when
she's bit? So I had to go back and rewatch
it to see what had happened. And again, it's so dark.

(01:10:33):
You think it's a Walker? Can you?
Tell and at first I thought she had pushed the Walker into
something and that was what the close up was.
No, but that wasn't it. That was her being pushed into
why is. She hiding it like you didn't
you get bit. You need to like take care of
that or something. Yeah, I just got a tetanus shot
the other day. It was not pleasant so.
I don't know that's that's a really good question, though.

(01:10:54):
I, I am curious to know what youthink.
I mean, maybe she thinks she deserves it for causing this
chaos to begin with, because hadshe not said anything at all.
I was going to say Dasha. Thanks, Rachel.
Nirvaez would have been blame you always for that.
Nirvaez would have been taken out.
The situation would have been handled.
They but yeah, I mean, isn't allthis kind of her fault?
She pointed a gun at Herschel toget Maggie to stop.

(01:11:16):
And so I could see that being the case.
I I want to know what you guys think though.
Why doesn't she say anything? I'm surprised the thing isn't
oozing her. She doesn't say.
What I mean, what is there to me?
You can't do anything. You need stitches.
She could do that. You know what I mean?
I. Mean she could do that herself.
Yeah, but it's behind her. I don't, I don't know that she
it's just a little bit behind her.

(01:11:37):
I mean still. She can't beat her.
Yeah, it's kind of like. That's not a very easy you can't
see it first of all at at all. So you don't know what you're
doing back then? It also happened at like or I'm
sorry we the reveal happens at the end of the episode.
We don't know. She's not going to say
something. She might say something next

(01:11:59):
episode. Good point guys.
This is starting to hurt. Can.
We, I wonder if was there like Walker blood or something on
this spike? And that's what she's worried
about because like was a Walker first shoved into it first and
then she sliced herself on it. Because I could see her being
worried if, if, if she was worried about being contaminated
because I mean, we know from from the main show that that

(01:12:20):
works sometimes. If I mean all the reason to
speak up. Yeah, she's pulling a gym.
I agree though though tell me. Yes.
Yeah, maybe. 100% that's how that works.
And so why does she want to liveand not be cut off basically
from her mission? Is that what we're thinking
maybe. Or live long enough to help

(01:12:41):
them? I I still think she wants to go
after Negan. But I think I do think she
realizes because she does save Maggie from the hanging.
Like in the chaos she does put the stool up so that Maggie
couldn't get herself off and notget herself get down from her
perch and go inside. Well, after saving Herschel too.

(01:13:01):
Rachel, how pleased were you to see the noose around Maggie's
neck? I was very pleased.
And then immediately, like Walt,obviously she's getting out of
this one. So it was interesting to watch
Roxana's death because the firstperson we saw get hung in this
series, it happened by asphyxiation he strangled to.

(01:13:23):
Death. Oh.
This was. Jason Ornell, Yeah.
Sure, who cares? This.
Time. The fact that we know his last
name, it's so surreal and weird.This time he was at the camp
too, wasn't he? I think he was at the camp.
Jason Ornell was like, announced.
Yeah, I think so. Like as a last minute entry.
Either that or Scream City. Sorry, I just wanted to mention

(01:13:45):
that loud. Yeah, his name was Abby
something. Jason, Jason Warner Smith was at
the last minute. No, but there was the actor who
played Jason Ornell on Dead City.
His name is Avi something or other.
He was announced as one of the He's just like a.
Maybe that's for screams. Might be Scream City.
Scream City. Head to the camp events.com to
check it out and I'm going to. Look right now.

(01:14:08):
I'm going to look right now. We've seen New Babylon carry out
these punishments before and thefirst person we saw died like
they they hoisted him up, right?It wasn't, they didn't kick
anything out from under his feet.
They hoisted him up and he strangled to death, which is
brutal. In this scene, we see Roxana and
they kick the stool out and she's actually hung the way this

(01:14:32):
contraption is meant to work. Right?
Right now, we could go into all the all the math that goes
around a hanging and tell you that that none of that was
accurate. But I do appreciate that they
portrayed this in the way that it was supposed to, how it's
supposed to go, in which, you know, it snapped and dislocated

(01:14:53):
the vertebra instead of strangling.
Right. Let me just say.
What you mean? I can see how this would be a
problem initially because I'm a man of a certain height and it's
so hard to find a foot stool sometimes to reach out for
certain things. So I can see how they didn't
have, you know, they're in the front of New Babylon.
You have to wait to get a stool to get him up on the thing.

(01:15:14):
So just hoist him up and just, you know what I mean?
Sure, but. The there's a, there's a
mathematical equation that you have to follow when you're
hanging somebody and it has to do with your weight, your
height, the length of the rope, the, I mean even sometimes the
tension of the rope and the height that you have to be
standing in order for it to evenwork.
The age of the rope factors intobecause after uses rope stretch.

(01:15:36):
Yeah, it's very. It's very.
Precisely. I did a very in depth speech in
high school about capital punishment and I spent a lot of
time on hangings. I've just read a lot about it.
Was it was it a podcast about ittoo?
Probably podcast didn't exist when I was in high school.
When were you in high school? 400 years.

(01:15:56):
Oh, score. It's been 20 years ago, 20.
Five years ago. It's only been. 25 years. 3.
Oh, OK, That's close. It's in the neighborhood.
You're a liar, by the way, Dave.Do you want to read what?
That dude wasn't announced anywhere.

(01:16:17):
It was so thank you so much for introducing my train of thought.
I just. For nothing.
For nothing for. Nothing.
You're assuming a lot, Bridget. And I know that it was
announced. I'm just saying it's no for
facts but. It was you're assuming a lot.
You're assuming a lot Despite that you've just researched.
It all right, Bridget? Read the chat.

(01:16:38):
Rob said that the actor that I said was from Mad TV is the only
person to have to have been killed by Mike Myers in Austin
Powers and Michael Myers in Halloween Kills, and I forgot
that he was also in Halloween Kills.
He was a really great character in Halloween Kills.
It was awesome. Oh, that's awesome.

(01:16:59):
Yeah, it was really good to see him on.
That blue Casey with some heck to acknowledge.
Love it. Love that we brought that up now
VR own mishaps. Before we started, Rachel, when
you were still watching, right when you got to the part with
the rat, I said that I was talking about that part and I
was like, that was totally unnecessary.
And literally like a second later, like that scene was so

(01:17:19):
unnecessary. So thank you.
Having not heard any charity. I did say out loud people are
stupid and so sometimes you needto show them the thing so that
they get it. Negan scraping the bloody guts
off from the engine she needed. To know that he was the one who
actually smushed the rat, which like dude, could you be more of

(01:17:40):
a monster? Excuse me, I support squishing
the rat. 100% my husband. Yelled from the other room.
Michael McDonald. And I thought he was talking
with a singer-songwriter and I was like, there's no way That's
right. But that is actually the name of
the guy from Mad TV Stewart. Just serious.
He plays Stewart. He played Stewart.

(01:18:02):
He played Stewart Stewart Stewarts mom is played by.
Doreen, Doreen, Doreen. Right Stewarts mom Doreen is
played by. MO Collins.
MO Collins, Yeah, OK. Kill all the people that you
want on the show, but leave the rats and the dogs and then and
the horses, because, you know, they gassed the dogs too.

(01:18:22):
I was very angry about that. You know, kill all of Christos's
people. I don't care.
But you gassed the dogs. Dogs didn't do anything to you.
The rat didn't do anything to you.
Leave it alone. Well, you're waiting for me to
say something I'm not. No, I'm just that was my
opinion. I'm just saying all the people,
I don't care. Kill the little kids, I don't
care. Kill all them.
Kill all the people, but leave the animals alone.
I will eat. Chris does have a much bigger

(01:18:43):
army than what was in that room.Where's everybody else?
That's like a vertical building,which by the way, I did research
to find out where that building was.
Worcester, MA. I found the building itself by
the way. That is a very good question.
I asked the question. It's like multiple floors, by
the way. OK, So let me OK, that's a very
good, it's a very good question,dude.

(01:19:05):
Just so you know, New York City,when there is a methane leak in
a building, methane will seep upto different floors, which is
why it's such a huge danger for everybody involved.
Is why they mandated methane detectors in every building, in
every floor and every basically almost every room in hallway.
Because when one person detects it, they must alert the cops so

(01:19:25):
they can bring them in for the whole building so that it can be
cleared out so that that problemcan be resolved.
I can easily make the assumptionif there are many other people
in Christos's army, they would have gone to every single floor
as the gas traveled upward from the bottom floor to where
everybody else was. You could imagine that there's
more people than just the peoplethey just killed.

(01:19:45):
They're all passed out. Obviously, I mean, they're not,
they're not going after this group of people because there
were six of them. Well, right.
Yeah. It was like a whole, yeah,
whatever. The room was 25 people.
Were just supposed to assume that the whole building was
gassed and they went floor to floor killing them all.
That's a Yep, that's a big. Assumption.
Well, I mean he Karat says as much.

(01:20:06):
Take the. Time to show us Negan picking
rat guts out of his shoe but notmake it clear that they
slaughtered an entire building full of people.
Well, Karat said it. We left the women and children.
We just killed all the men and they actually showed.
Oh, I was. Killing all the men.
I must have walked away. Yeah, I know that.
Like I had AI have a hard time sitting still so I then I got up
and oh. OK.

(01:20:26):
Yeah. OK.
Well, just to clear that up, after Megan is escorted out of
the room, they're like just knock, just whacking all these
guys who are all all passed out.So they did.
And there's like the CJI blood splatter everywhere.
OK. Gruesome, actually.
So yeah, that's a good assumption.
OK, great assumption. Rob wants to know what we
thought of the Croat's real name.

(01:20:48):
Miley, Miley, I thought it was great.
Excited you guys saw my reactionto that.
It's funny, yes. Yeah.
He has a name. That's that's.
How you said it was like. Is that what I said?
He has a name something like that.
Just I'm giving you the play by blame what we saw just before we

(01:21:09):
went live. Rob, Luke Casey.
It's like it's just the best. I miss our like Dave slash Dre
reacts right, I miss. Our little live reactions.
Two of those were fun. Oh, no Jerry.
Oh, no Jerry, Jerry, no Jerry. No, no, no, no, no, no Jerry.
No. So much fun to edit.
By the way, was is. Miley, the Croatian version of

(01:21:30):
Miles. I, I don't think so.
I think it's the shortened version of Milosh Milosh.
But I'm curious now. Thanks, Milosh.
I like that name. Milosh.
Rob also says, Oh my gosh, a Kitty.
Yeah, that's right. I'll be fooled by her cuteness,
Rob. She's demanding that she knock
over the microphone. Fiona is an agent of

(01:21:52):
destruction. All cats are agents of
destruction in very various degrees.
But let me go to the name. OK, you pushed it and I'm going
to say it. The name Mila is a masculine
given name found in Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, N
Macedonia and Bulgaria. It's often found as a
contraction of the name Milan orMio drug.

(01:22:12):
The name is a diminutive of Mio drug, Milan and other names
containing the Slavic element milieu, meaning gracious or
dear. And also they said like, OK,
again, going back to my theory of the Dhama only criticizes
people she cares about. Dear Milei dear.
Oh, it's kind of like in her last like, you know, atheist in

(01:22:32):
foxholes. She's actually dear, say she.
Dear, she should have called himMile earlier.
Start baby that isn't a let's role play with that bellhop
outfit. Baby, she really.
Addresses him as the crow at either though.
Does she? No, she never really calls him
like. You.
Yeah, she was just like, she's just like him.
He this guy, he's. The bad guy?

(01:22:55):
Yeah, He's what? An idiot.
Your competence knows no bounds.It's often pronounced Miele, and
it's cherished for its association with love and
kindness. See, this was what I was waiting
for. If this is, in fact, where this
is going, I don't know. Again, every single episode I've
been commenting. I do not like that the crowd has
been reduced to a punch line when last season it was kind of

(01:23:17):
like as ridiculous as he was, hewas really smart and
intelligent. And I mean, you had to give him
props for some of the explosionsand the timings and the candle
thing. Do you remember that whole
thing, the exploding Madison Square Garden with that candle
thing with that and the explosions in the in the first
season? I don't remember.
The first season was a long timeago.

(01:23:38):
Long time ago. I want to comment real quick on
how, as always, the cinematography in the show is
despite. The darkness.
I'm thinking of more like when Maggie and Herschel were sitting
out on the bench in the grass field.
And I mean just just how beautiful.
Like they they're, no matter what else goes on, they are
always the best at just getting beautiful shots and scenes.

(01:23:59):
Always. Their team knows how to find a
spot, you know what I mean? They don't know how to find like
a good spot for filming. They really do.
In every episode, there's just at least one scene that's just
stunning the way they shoot it. So I just want to shout that out
because they always have the best cinematography.
You know, maybe going to that, where do you?
OK, so you had said earlier thatwhen Herschel finds out that the

(01:24:22):
dama whose name we don't know just want to say that out loud,
that he will be really upset by this.
Whereas at the end of the episode, you kind of get this
idea that he's fessing up. I mean, he saw his mother almost
die. And in my mind, I'm thinking,
what is it worth making this vision of his because isn't
along with the idea of the themeof not wanting to look weak in

(01:24:44):
order to expose your position, right to to make people walk all
over you. There's that theme running out
throughout through a whole episode.
The other part, the other theme in this episode is really making
a decision. So a decision isn't made for you
or seeing that the the end of the road of the vision that you
wanted. And which reminds me of Rick, by
the way, that Carl's vision and Rick wanting to make that

(01:25:05):
happen. It seems to be coming up
throughout every episode and himhaving to finally put that dream
to bed to save everyone is Herschel.
So maybe this is the first question.
Is Herschel seeing his vision impossible and This is why he
starts finally fessing up to Maggie?
Because if it means my mother has to die for that dream to
come alive, what is it worth? Is what wasn't this all for my

(01:25:27):
mother to show her that there's a new world that we can explore
and not be stuck in the old one?But is he seeing that dream die
now with all this craziness going on that this all but all
this led to? He admits himself when he
started seeing the soldiers coming out from the water the
way they were the dead ones. I'm assuming that's not what he
wanted at all and then put putting his mom in danger.

(01:25:48):
I don't think he wanted death inthis like idyllic future.
I don't that's the whole thing. That's what he hates about the
past is that all of these peoplethat he knows that are related
to the past are constantly fighting to get things to be the
way that they used to be. That's what he says.
It's all about power all of the time.
And he just doesn't want anything to do with that.
So I don't think that he saw it as, oh, this is how it's going

(01:26:12):
to go. Whereas the dumb is like, I'll
sacrifice whoever I need to to get it here.
I don't, I don't think he was Privy to that part of that
thought. Right.
Well, yeah, that side of her. Is that what you're saying?
Yeah. And now he never will.
Maybe, I guess, or. You know what who never will,
though? Benjamin Pierce is going to die
for real. Oh, we haven't gone back to him.
Good call. No.

(01:26:33):
Did somebody forget him in the trunk?
Never just. Dead.
He just in a trunk so well. Excuse me, you said there'd be
better accommodations in the next episode.
I'm not even going to lie, in the opening scene when he's
picking out that outfit, for like a second I was like, oh, I
thought it was going to be Pierce.

(01:26:53):
Like Pierce was going to be like, dressed up nice.
Oh, did it? Well, he did say better
accommodations. Accommodations.
Kraut taking a page from Tatama's book, I guess.
I don't know, but he still chooses an ugly shirt.
The Kraut may use him as like, Oh no, he's writing my
biography. Now.

(01:27:13):
This guy, because I'm of great importance now that I'm the
leader. He's a scientist through and
through. He could use it.
I don't know. We'll have to see We.
Could write a sign. Otherwise, bye bye A.
Science Biography. Or maybe he could see something
in Benjamin I. Saved the world by making
methane possible in the city or something like that.
Well, assuming the ends happen the way the crowd wants them to.

(01:27:36):
Well, because isn't the lesson that Rick learned by keeping
Negan around that, or the lessonthat we're to take away
ultimately by leaving Negan around is that he ends up saving
the Whisperer? Sorry, saving our group from the
Whisperers because he gets involved and though Hilltop does
burn, it saves most of the people.
Negan is instrumental in saving our group from the Whisperer
War, essentially. Correct.

(01:27:58):
But really, it's Carol. But yeah.
Ish, right? Ish because she causes a lot.
He wouldn't have. He wouldn't have been flat free
otherwise. Yeah.
And she was like, go do my bidding, my little ferret, my.
Little ferret Negan. Because I don't, sorry, that's
like it's from Beastmaster. I don't.
My friend and I used to say thata lot when we were younger.

(01:28:19):
Be like, do my bidding, ferret. It was a reference to
Beastmaster. I I get you, I get you
throwback. Nice friend that you have there.
Well then, well, I guess my point is that could you see
Negan sparing the Croat in this similar fashion to kind of keep
order of New York City because he managed to I guess run it
ish. I I don't know, he's horrible as
the Croat sounds and as ridiculous as he is trying to

(01:28:43):
get Negan's approval. Negan, you know, that whole
thing, I'm, I'm hard pressed to say that he's a bad guy.
And he was definitely just like Negan.
He was definitely a bad guy, but.
I told you I'm a bad guy now andthey're my heroes, so that's.
Kind of why it's. The clip, Dave Yeah, it is the
clip. They're my heroes and I'm a bad
guy now, so. Yeah, you say great things,

(01:29:04):
Bridget. Are you feeling the same way?
Could Negan spare the crow for the sake of the city?
I mean, there's kids now in the city, the spared gristos's,
women and children, maybe even the dog charity, maybe even the
dogs. They didn't do anything wrong.
I suppose it's possible. What do you want to happen?
Actually, that's maybe a better question with the Croat
specifically. I'm not sure I know enough about

(01:29:27):
him yet to make a good decision about what I want for him.
I haven't decided yet if he's really a good or a bad guy.
Isn't that the point? Yeah, that we could all be good
guys. Question mark well.
Because obviously that's like the whole point of all of these
shows, right? Like meeting the right people at
the right time and we're all thehero of our own story and blah

(01:29:48):
blah blah blah blah. Until we've proven not to be.
But I'm saying from from a viewer's perspective.
From my perspective, I haven't decided yet if he's a good or a
bad guy. I don't.
I don't know if I know enough about him and I forget why him
and Negan had a. Because he killed a kid who was
supposedly a spy from some faction that we don't know of

(01:30:10):
way back in the day, Yeah. OK, yeah, I knew they explained
it, but I forgot. You were left wondering like was
he actually a spy or is the Kraut just paranoid?
OK, like could he have been a little bit crazy?
Maybe was he was just maybe an innocent kid and the Kraut
killed him and that's why Negan was like we didn't know enough
well, but the the Kraut is really paranoid.

(01:30:31):
I mean, you guys, we, we forgaveCarl.
Well, and see when that just further cements the idea that
even if he was a spy, Negan has a line.
Yeah, cementing that idea. Carl killed a kid in cold blood.
But Croat doesn't see it that way.
And anyway, all the people, all our survivors, even Negan sees
that people are a resource. That was the what the episode

(01:30:51):
was called too, by the way. In season 1 of Dead City, people
are a resource to kind of give you the idea that even if he was
a spy, he's still a resource potentially.
I feel like the Croat has the potential to turn into a tyrant
and not be a good leader. I think.
I think power. I could very easily seeing power
going to his head and it ending very badly.

(01:31:13):
Well then what does he have to live for if the Dom is gone to
meaning he he can go full Croat I guess is that I'm ready to see
him. Full up in his bellhop suit,
just like another Bruegel. Now I can do what I want.
I can dress in whatever suit I want.
I thought it looked nice. And my dirty shirt.

(01:31:36):
And my. Dad, I like.
Dirty shirt. Now he'll he'll be emboldened to
wear all The Dirty shirts. I don't like this.
Where's the dumb shirts? For the Croat, only dirty
shirts. I think you should just go
shirtless, but hey man, listen, you do you.
That is a look. We've reached the line.
What is he Walton Goggins like? Mr. Potato, I don't mind.

(01:32:00):
He may have a potato head, but Idon't care.
Wow, I'm getting clashes of Oh my gosh, what's it called, What
we do in the dark? Oh, she can't think now.
She's just thinking of Walton Goggins.
No, like the vampires on Hulu. What we?

(01:32:21):
Do in the shadows, I know. Shadows, I said.
Dark. I knew what you were talking
about. What specifically now?
They're vampires. You just.
You sound like them. Oh.
Rob says that he has to go due to fatherly duties and that
he'll catch the rest when you post the episode.
Have a great night everyone, good night Rob.
Good. Night, Rob.

(01:32:42):
Thanks for thanks for coming outand asking questions and having
good insights. See, I was waiting for it.
Rob was waiting for it. Doug Jones.
That's it. Doug Jones.
Here's the accent I thought. You were trying to think of the
other. No, no, no 'cause you were
referring to the accent with which I was using.
That was similar to Doug Jones character on What We Do in the
Shadows. No, that's not who I was

(01:33:04):
referring to, but that's clearlywho you thought of and I love
that for you. That's.
Great, I love that. For me too.
Hocus pocus. But no, Doug Jones is amazing.
Isn't a hocus, that's. Garricoe zippered up.
Whatever anyway. My budget.
Why do you are you upset that the Dom is no longer with us?
What specifically about it is just like there just feels like

(01:33:24):
there was more for her story to tell or.
Yeah, there was obviously more of her story left and I just, I
enjoyed the character and the actress.
I really like, I really love theactress.
So, you know, if I see somebody on screen that I like, I want to
see more of them, right? And Bridget says good riddance.
Why? I didn't.
I didn't like her. I'm glad she's clown.

(01:33:46):
What was it about her that you didn't like?
She's unearned sort of clout, yes.
Unearned clout. You're a critic.
You don't even do things, you just evaluate other people doing
things. And how dare you judge my boy
the Croat, who is perfect in every way?
Frankly, wow. I'm I'm I.
Told you I'm a bad guy now. I'm a bad guy now.

(01:34:07):
And I would have, I would have swooped into that spot and I
would have been like, hey, what's up, What's up, Croat
Negan, I'm your boss now. You think about.
That, and you know what? I'm not pretentious, so there's
that. Better leader already, yes.
Do you like these Uncle Fester outfits?
I can pull that up away better than the the Dumber.

(01:34:30):
She's Dumber. Dumber.
She's. Dumber, Dumber.
That's like that time that I'd, I took the letters out of my
brother's necklace. It's it's had his name on it.
It said Morgan and I took the G out and I said.
Morgan Your. Nicholas says moron now, and my
mom said that, says Moran. Who's the moron now?

(01:34:51):
Moron? Did you say anything about my
son, whom I also get to criticize?
Because that's love, people. And if you I love and never
criticize, it's only you. Babe, that's love right there.
And if you love us and want to criticize us, because that's
what love looks like is criticism, head on over to
ratethispodcast.com/walkingdead.Five stars and a bird cage.

(01:35:16):
Is that an emoji out there somewhere?
Just like a bird, you can find abird.
An avian of some sort is all we need to know that you love us,
but tell us what you like to tell us what you didn't like.
Especially that because that's how we know that you love us.
Just remember Santa's visiting. To tell us of the ghost of
Christmas present, just rememberto tell us.
Good. Call in every episode and if you

(01:35:37):
really like what we're doing, head on over to ko-5.com/quaking
Dead or patreon.com/quaking Deadand join a membership tier for
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Forever access means you'll get it and you don't have to
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us and you and you'll get 30 days of access to our unedited
episode recordings. My priest clock insights, which

(01:35:59):
I will actually release a big bundle of in short order because
I've been slacking for some reason.
It's one thing I've forgotten todo because we've been going live
for the last several episodes. Remember also before I do the
rest of my spiel to in your rating, let us know if you
happen to like these unedited episodes because when you do
weigh in on them, we only have afew episodes left of Dead City

(01:36:20):
to go in an 88 episode season. This is the fifth.
We've got three more to go and if you like them, we will keep
doing these unedited episodes. It's easier for me.
However, don't let that be the factor.
We want to do what is best for you and what you think is sounds
better is better. We'll always be better one way
or the other. We just want ten reviews saying

(01:36:41):
that you like the unedited episodes and if you do, that's
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If you join the Great M or Survivors here, you will be able
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(01:37:03):
And if you happen to join the Great M tier, the Greatest Cyst
here you will join. You will join the core channel
where we will talk about all things behind the scenes that we
can't share with everybody else because you will be a junior
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(01:37:26):
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And again, if you just follow our Kofi or Patreon, we'll get
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You'll be able to join the studios for free when we're not
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schedules on social media. We only share them on our Kofi
and Patreon. It's free to get them.
It's free to join. I've been here with David Cami
and I was joined by Cos Mom 09 Rachel Burt.

(01:37:49):
Lazygardnerandbridgetyoucanfindme@kaodashafi.com/punkyBrewster.
That's PUNKYBRUISETER. I don't know how I feel about
this episode per SE, just in terms of overall impressions.
There's a lot of setup for the final three.
Even Eli Jornet said that this was kind of like a mid season
finale with all these people dying the Dahmer and Nirvayas in

(01:38:12):
these episodes and so the and. Roxana.
Rocks a lot as well, yeah. They're dying and and Christos
that's 4 deaths. That's.
Right. So my guess is when he says that
it's kind of a signal that it's the rock is going to start
rolling downhill and there should be a lot of episode to
go. And I'm actually excited to see
where this ends up because some of these things might be setting

(01:38:33):
up for bigger things to come. And I'm actually curious to see
what that looks like. What about you guys, Rachel?
Yeah. I really hope that Maggie and
Negan get teamed back up again. I mean, like that was the draw
for me and having them separatedall season has really been kind
of a drag for me. And again, not even in the Hate
Bang way. I just think when they're on
screen together, it's fun. And they have not been on screen

(01:38:53):
together. So it just hasn't.
It just hasn't been as much fun.Make sure you like and
subscribe. Yeah, like and like this video,
if you happen to watch it, subscribe.
Yeah, tip us if you happen to like what you're seeing because
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Take care, everybody. We'll see you real soon.
And hopefully we'll go live nextweek to talk about this episode
at a reasonable hour for everybody to join us.

(01:39:17):
See you next week. Hi, thanks so much for making it
to the end of yet another episode of Squawking Dead.
This one the fifth episode of The Walking Dead Dead Cities
second season titled The Bird Always Knows.
I actually had an errant thoughtbefore I go into acknowledgments
about the age of Christos and I wonder if he's not the same age

(01:39:41):
as Joan and Victor, who we both saw pass as well.
He seemed like a very young father, and I could easily see
him being about the same age as the those two other characters.
And I'm sensing a pattern, folks.
I'm sensing a pattern. In any case, I like to
acknowledge our supporters in The Great M Survivors and

(01:40:01):
Whisperers here. It's a little perk that receive
after every single episode, and we're happy to because it's
thanks to them that we're able to do what we do.
It's our only source of revenue practically outside the merch
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Anyway, we'd like to see you guys.
Wear our stuff on your bodies and drink things out of our mugs

(01:40:24):
and all the other lovely things that our merch store has for you
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choosing Buy Merch. If you're on YouTube, you can
always get to it via the link inour bio.
Moving on to our acknowledgments, starting with
the Great M tier we have at RealRyan GM on both Instagram and X
skipping the Survivors tier as we have no members in that tier.

(01:40:47):
We have the Whispers tier containing at Skylar Rose PW on
both Instagram and X, as well asat Kim dot Rowley, the number
one on Facebook. Things are finally starting to
wind down after a very long season of overlapping series, or
at least it feels that way throwing in an interview there
in the midst of all this and thecamp, I am very happy to be back

(01:41:09):
and speaking with all of you live in these episode
breakdowns, and I'm hoping to speak with you live in the next
one as well. If you happen to subscribe to
our YouTube channel where you can actually weigh in on some of
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Probably the best way to know when we go live is to not only

(01:41:30):
subscribe to and enable all notifications to our YouTube
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always know that we are squawking dead.

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