The Walking Dead: Dead City |2x07 "Novi Dan, Novi Početak"

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:20):
We are squawking dead, a podcastpulverizing programs beyond The
Walking Dead universe. Sometimes we give you news,
sometimes we make you laugh. Most times we go deep.
I'm your host, David Cameo, and I'm joined by.
Cosmo Mom, 09. And as some of you can see in
the chat, Bridget is having sometechnical difficulties but she
will be on shortly as well as perhaps Sharon D AKA Blasey

(00:44):
Gardner and Bridget you could find so she doesn't have to do
it later on. Youtube.com slash at symbol
PONKYBRUISETERI suggest, like I said in the last episode at the
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subscribe to her channel ASAP. Don't do it right now.
You're here with us right now, but well, actually maybe you can

(01:06):
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(01:28):
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(01:51):
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Because if you don't enable all notifications, you basically
won't at all. That's how this works.
We're here now, and we're here to discuss The Walking Dead.
Dead Cities 7th penultimate episode of Season 2 titled Novi
Don Novi Potetuk. That's right.

(02:13):
I said it right, which means newDay, New Beginning, which was
repeated a couple times in this episode.
And look at that look. At that, look at this.
There she is. I'm gonna hit it there.
She is no punching necessary. I'm gonna make mincemeat just.
A threat. It was just a threat of punching
in your computers like, OK, OK, so we got it.

(02:34):
You. Guys, got the error on your
side. All I did was refresh the window
for the 80th time tonight and it.
Like you usually do and it worked.
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.
Like the message said, just refresh the browser.
Bridget, I don't know why you'renot.
Refreshing the browser like it'slike, it's like just refresh the
first time. Just refresh it.

(02:57):
Sounds like the smarmy technician, which is me.
It's me, Yeah. The problem is me, and I don't
mind, really. I don't mind.
I like, I like getting Bridget alittle flustered every now and
again. Not like frustrated to all hell
not not rage room level. I want to go to a rage room so
bad. So bad.
I know they're. Amazing.
It's like an escape room, exceptyou commit violent acts.

(03:19):
It's just I have like a, it's like I have a high level of like
always like right here, you knowwhat I mean?
Because I like manage people. And so do you have a?
Low level No. Can we have a low level of low
threshold for? No, I mean like I have like a
high level of like like constantstress.
Yeah, right. So it's like The Walking Dead
universe only rage. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(03:40):
Basically, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well I'm glad we're all here
almost cause Sharon D may hop onlater.
We've got I hope she does stormsconstantly, constantly.
It's not helping things. I could disappear.
I could disappear tonight. You have no idea.
So if that happens, just gonna let you know now, it's because
there's storms coming in She. Has a personal thing too.

(04:00):
So, I mean, so on top of that, if she happens to join us, it
may start raining. So there you go.
Yeah, In any case, yes, this episode, is there any
housekeeping? Well, yes, there is.
First of all, you're here. I'm happy you're here.
Look at all you, your lovely faces, mostly Tess.
It's great. But if you happen to want to
keep the party rolling, we, Bridget and I at the very least,

(04:22):
will be on the MC US BLEEDING EDGE later on tonight at 9:35 PM
on the east turn coast of the United States.
That's youtube.com slash at the MC US Bleeding EDGE.
Just search for it. You'll find it.
And yeah, you'll see. We're going to be going live
with them to talk about this episode again.
The gobbler of food says seeing a lot of squawking, not a lot of

(04:44):
dead. Well, that's a relief.
First of all, I love that name the cobbler of food.
Just straight to the point. I get it.
It's half the reason why I like TikTok.
Anyway, food talk. So we'll be on the MCS bleeding
Edge at 9:35 PM, Bridget and I. And so I highly encourage you to
show up for that because I will say up top, I really enjoyed

(05:06):
this episode very much. Right, right.
Rachel, how much you like you love me saying very much.
I very much like this episode. Taking notes from last.
Week better much what was. It I very much like this
episode. No, that makes sense.
What you said did not make sensebefore.
That's OK, as per our normal rules about this episode.

(05:26):
Novi Don Novi Potetak, which means New day, New beginning.
Rachel, How does the title of this episode relate to this
episode? Very good question.
It did not. I don't know.
I don't know. You're not trying hard enough.
Rachel. This.
All took place at night. Pretty sure it was like the same
day. There was no new beginning.

(05:47):
Unless you're you. Think 1.
Thing. Of course I am, yeah.
Obviously what she does, this isyour whole.
Thing because I was confused fora little while like oh is it you
watching the episode all this this happened for me during the
day No, there was no new beginning for me the whole.
Episode was one day, there was no new anything.
Stop it, David. Well, what else?

(06:08):
Like metaphor? Well, you went into the
metaphorical last week and I wasthinking like, sometimes.
Not today. No, not today.
I'm I'm just going to be honest,this was not my favorite
episode. Compared to the last two, how
does it rank? Is it like out of the three that
we just watched recently and. This one annoyed me.
OK, hold that thought, Bridget. Yes, I know we don't do first

(06:30):
impressions, but just a quick shot on how you felt about this
episode. I'm.
I'm not. I'm not.
Sure. OK, look at this.
We're like, we're like the threemonk sitting monkeys.
Like the one sees no evil, 1 hears no evil, one speaks no
evil. There was a new beginning, I'll
give you that, because I mean, teenagers, am I right?
But like, it was, it was like Herschel's brain was an Etch A

(06:53):
Sketch like, and someone just shook him and all of a sudden he
forgot everything he was mad about.
And he's like. And he's like, we'll get into
that. So much better that you're here
now, No? Oh, wait, was it just faking?
But. It.
Seems like for a moment when you're watching the scene that

(07:15):
it was like maybe we're going toget a new beginning with the two
of them. You are just in a very different
way. All the new beginnings that
occurred in this. Episode very very different way.
I had, I had some very differentthoughts going through my head
in that in that scene. I thought, I mean, it's not
great how it ended, but I thought it was going to be even
worse. So.
I mean, all I'll say is finally.We haven't seen the next

(07:37):
episode. I'll say that.
That's all I'll say. In my statement of you know what
I always say, Dave, no one's gone until gone.
I'm a big believer in that. Just to capitulate to what
you're saying when you guys madefun of me about Nirvaez and that
it means she did make it up to Bruegel.
It was 2 episodes ago and somehow could Nirvaez be alive.

(08:00):
It was the last we'll see about.I wasn't wrong about not seeing
her again. We still not alive and but I was
going to say in my notes again, I had written the domino really
gone. But then because you made fun of
me, I didn't bring it up. I was like, your advice?
No, Dave, sometimes Dad is dead.Sometimes dad is better.
OK, Like I said, big believer. And no one's going.

(08:24):
No one's going to. Her but dad is better.
But sometimes Dad is better, yeah.
Sometimes read the chapter here.Hey, OK so Tess says this
episode had me yelling at the screen more than usual and.
Sharon. Said I just want to know if
Rachel was hollering for Maggie to jump.

(08:45):
She's. Horrible.
I don't like that she's evil laughing either.
Tessa, I'm yelling. Are you gonna do anything?
Maggie, move your butt. Dang it.
Rachel was probably taunting. Maggie is also with Tessa.
About that. Sharon, he said.
Same, Rachel. I can hear it now.
Wait, hold on. I can hear it now.
Maggie's looking over the staircase the first time, right?

(09:06):
And she's like peering over and you hear Rachel in the distance
jump, jump and back is like, huh.
No, it's like a very distant, like there's a it's.
Like the time you went like thisand you like said something out
loud and Dave was like, why are you all?

(09:29):
The. Way back here jump.
There you go. There you go.
Oh, it's. Creepier when it's with a
whisper. Charity said that she was super
annoyed by the episode and that she's sorry that your name was
spelled. But I'm using speech to text.
Speech to text. Yeah, and then Tessa, they
definitely pulled a mind twist on this one.
Charity said it's a good thing I'm not there and that she never

(09:52):
took me for a Mattistan. But.
She said it repeatedly. I've said it so many times and
you might be like I. Never sure if it's not saying it
facetiously. And I'll be like, I don't know.
You'll never know. You'll never know.
But sometimes Dad is better, yeah.
Definitely, Tess said. Was she's.

(10:12):
Steering. Mile, I'm sorry, I read it as
mild, just could not break that English.
Capitalization. Was she steering mile up to pull
him into the fire if he didn't walk away?
I think I want to. I like that.
Jump right in by saying how do I?
How do I word this? Well, I want to.
I want to. Jump right in by saying nothing.

(10:34):
I want to jump right in by saying nothing.
I just want to stare awkwardly for a few minutes.
Miley knows Dama's still alive. He looked genuinely distraught
this episode. Yeah, never assumed that he
thought he was that she was I. Think it's always a possibility,
but to me it was pretty obvious he he was very distraught.
Be shocked if he did know because it would just go to show

(10:54):
that he had there was some sort of larger plan and that we were
not Privy to and that he is a phenomenal actor.
I mean, the actor is a phenomenal actor.
I mean, the Croat is a phenomenal actor, right?
Which maybe he is. I don't know.
I'm not going. It's always a good sign.
When the head of the podcast is like woof.

(11:17):
Yeah, well, that's a great. You know, sometimes I can
surprise you too. And full of moves.
But I'll say, when you were talking about it, I was like, oh
wait, let's connect that to the last episode where he was
basically falling over looking at her brink.
Well, not her Brink corpse, apparently, but then there's a
little parallel between he and Maggie because she kind of has a
similar kind of almost passing out almost every.

(11:40):
I know it's mostly out of exhaustion, but the other part
of it is a whole other ball of wax too.
It's weird, which I'm I'm raringto go to talk about this.
I mean, a lot of the reason why I enjoyed this episode just to
kind of hit it, was that when I first watched it again, first
impressions always matter. I was like afraid.

(12:01):
Maybe it's because I'm also a little afraid of heights that it
could be possible that she would.
The show made me feel like she could and that I could feel I
could connect with the characteron that level of exhaustion and
could. Jump.
Are you saying could jump? Yeah.
The desire to jump, the desire to give up, the exhaustion.
What am I doing this for? I've lost everything and lost

(12:21):
everyone. Will I get him back?
Some of the feelings that she did feel, and this will be
important later during season 11of The Walking Dead when she was
separated from Herschel had to get him back from the
Commonwealth. Essentially, what's up with this
will come up and. He's just like constantly being
kidnapped. But it's like The Walking Dead
universe, man. It's just just what happens If
you want to get people to do something, you take away their

(12:41):
kids. It's.
Just like walking out, like, Oh no, don't take me away from my
mom. Don't do that.
I would hate that if you took meaway from my mom.
Well, this episode well, and we don't find that out till later,
but but there's something about like the show getting you to
feel that of a show like this. Let's be honest about some
things, like a lot of the the cool things about the spin offs

(13:04):
isn't really necessarily about the suspense nature of it
necessarily. Or at least now at this stage in
The Walking Dead universe. There's also general attitude of
is there no mystery left or is is is everything been done
before? And that this show got me to
feel this level of intensity. My heart was started beating and
I'm like, well, hold on, what's happening here?
That I didn't feel in like a quite a long time to be able to

(13:27):
get into Maggie's headspace of just seeing her consulate.
First of all, cats off that. The level of exhaustion she was
experiencing was just palpable. I, I connected with that on such
a level. I've been there before too, like
just I sleeping standing up on the subway every now and again.
I've worked very, very hard in my life and sometimes come home
really, really late. And it was a common occurrence

(13:49):
for me to just just almost fall asleep holding onto a subway
pole and then waking up hitting it because I fell over almost.
Do you want to go to the chat? I guess Bridget, because I don't
know. Oh sure, sure, sure.
Tess said that the Dom was maybesetting up the Crow app and that
everyone thinks she died in the fire, and then she pops out at

(14:10):
the end and Herschel is playing both sides.
Charity says she did the same thing in last season with the
methane, which is what these exhaustion scenes reminded me
of. She hauled off down into the
catacombs and then was passing out because the methane was
getting to her. Oh, you know, and Negan passing
out from the methane. Was it 2 episodes prior or one
episode prior? No2 episodes prior.

(14:31):
Oh. Yeah.
So they want symmetry there too.Yeah, yeah.
We discover in this episode it'sjust small, small detail that
there's a repeating theme that'shappening.
Apparently, Benjamin Pierce is also the same age as Victor Joan
Christos. He was 10 years old and Carl was
10 years old when the apocalypsehappened.
So bye. Bye, Benjamin Pierce.

(14:51):
You're dead. Well.
Why did you why did you say thatlike a Midwestern mom?
Bye, bye, Benjamin Pierce. No, I just did.
You're dead. You're dead now.
Make your bed before you go. I like Mr. Pierce.
Well, like I was saying in the last episode, you know, here,
here, here, here, and no further.
We've seen all these people, these reminders of Carl or

(15:12):
whatever, kids in the apocalypse.
What is all this for if not for them and you're killing them to
make this happen here and no further.
And then you get a little bit more back story from Pierce this
episode, too. On top of Tim telling us his
age, he said something that was so cool, like another dimension
to this. Do we bring it back or do we
make it something completely new?
And he says, and I really love this.

(15:34):
It's like, I don't even rememberwhat it was back then, but it's
nice to remember meaning from a historians perspective.
History was written by the victors.
But it's also a in some ways a rose tinted glasses version of
history and how but it could be better.
Like we I can look back at this history and say, well, not all

(15:55):
of this was bad. In fact, a lot of us to make it
to the point that we got here, alot of good came through all
this, even through the bad. And so if I can look back on
history and see that there's some things we can cherry pick
and and take into the future, doesn't have to be exactly the
same, but like, it's like this idea that this is all I know in
the written word. Why can't we have this now?

(16:16):
Why can't this be a good thing that we have now?
Maybe there's a little ignoranceto that also that to get to the
good parts, we have to go through some bad parts.
But it's worth fighting for, isn't it?
I thought what he said was in reference to the fact that he
was enjoying that moment with Negan because Negan is
reminiscing all before then. And so it almost seemed like,

(16:40):
yeah, I don't have the same amount of memories as you.
It's not as old, but it is nice to remember and have someone
remember with you. What he could remember.
I just want to just expand on that just a little bit so I can
understand that better. No, Benjamin Pierce isn't
remembering anything, right? Right.
He's sharing the memories with Negan and that was what I
thought he was referencing. I see what you're saying.

(17:01):
OK, OK, that I can live in the past.
Yeah, Vicar vicariously, it's nice to remember with someone,
to have someone share a story. It's the concept of And this is
so weird because Travis and I talked about it this week, I
feel like, but nostalgia for something that you weren't alive

(17:22):
for. Yeah, I wrote that down in my
notes. An ammonia which is nostalgia
for something that never. Was word for it.
OK. Yeah, yeah.
We mentioned it on this podcast infrequently, but yeah.
Travis and I were having a conversation about like old
video games and he's been watching a YouTube channel, PC
88 Paradise. It's like old floppy disk games
on PC 88, which is crazy. And he said, like, I didn't play

(17:46):
these games, but I have a level of nostalgia for this time
period. Even though he didn't
participate in any of that, he remembers it fondly, even though
he has no memory of it. And that's kind of what I what
I, it made me think of when the two of them had this
conversation, Benjamin Pierce and Megan remembering things
fondly or even just the act of remembering with someone, even

(18:10):
if it's not a fond memory, just that intimacy that comes from.
That I can live in the world you've you've helped me
construct in my own mind about your past and how it must have
been like. I love that it's that concept of
oratory storytelling, right? That's so big.
In Native cultures, that was predominantly how they did
storytelling. Everything was oral.
That was how you passed on theselike folk tales.

(18:31):
And so that's kind of what it makes me think of is, is that
this concept of just passing it on through through talking.
Right, right. And how and another feature of
this is how that story will change through time because of
the time. Yeah, of course.
So in effect, down the line, youreally are creating a sense of a
pneumonia, which is like, it's sort of our history, but it's

(18:52):
been mangled through time. So it can make sense today,
which is not bad because we learn truth through stories.
You learn this from the Torah too.
How If you look at the Torah as a book of stories, you look at
you're reading it wrong. Essentially.
It's all filled and densely filled with meaning.
It is a book of stories. But the way we learn about the

(19:13):
things we ought to do in life isthrough stories.
And then as you look under the hood into the actual meaning and
literal meanings of different words throughout the Old
Testament, from that derives springs forth many, many
different laws and rules and thethings that people fight about
in the Talmud about, well, this word means that, but that word
over there means that. So when you look at this word,
you have to look at it differently and then etcetera,

(19:34):
etcetera. That's but like we learn through
story, it becomes easier to absorb.
We've said this similarly to different in different
iterations. Like with Silo.
Had you learned the truth up front without going through this
heroes journey, would you accepted it when you heard it?
Since you went through it, you can actually understand the
truth at the end of the the journey, right?

(19:56):
Otherwise you'd say this is crazy, this is madness.
I don't believe this at all because the written oral
histories like that, the first, the Old Testament's a lot like
that. So there's, you have to kind of
read the story, understand it, absorb it, then you can go back
and examine kind of like what we're doing now on this podcast.
We see the thing and you know, we take notes on it.
And then as we discuss, right, it's not just oral storytelling.

(20:18):
It's like, well, there's a bit of Talmudic back and forth.
And from that we even have greater insights.
So read the chat. Oh, OK, Tess said yes, Sharon D.
It's a cycle of different circumstances.
Those moments are hard, but to not want it to stop your
missions. And then Tess has a question.
Why were the children dormant and not biting?
Which tests to that I will say season 11 of The Walking Dead

(20:43):
Tensei Tensei. Was it Tensei?
With the alarm clock thrown in the field.
No, I'm thinking of when they'rein that warehouse and they drop
Carol and Daryl. And it's episode one.
Yeah, that's what. I thought it was yeah, OK
season. Premiere.
Season premiere of season 11, they step into what was used as

(21:04):
essentially A makeshift militarybase, like an emergency military
base, I believe kind of like a FEMA.
Shelter finds this intensity andhe goes further down the path
and season 11 season premiere. They're laying down, sleeping.
These kids are creepy AF. Just like standing there it was.
Weird standing. It was weird.
And every, every example of dormancy we've seen has been

(21:28):
either laying down or seated because we saw.
In. What's his name?
Sam Whitmer. Is that his name?
Sam Whitmer. Whitmer, sorry in the very.
Season 1 of The Walking Dead. In the very first episode, end
of the first episode, beginning of the second episode, he is
seated and dormant. The lurker in season 4 of The

(21:54):
Walking Dead in the prison that bites Herschel in the leg that
was also a semi dormant Walker and then we saw them laying in
this makeshift military base. We've not seen standing.
However, we have not seen a number of child walkers in like
in Mass. Well, just to kind of explain a
little further, which could helpyou out in case many of you

(22:16):
don't know and are of a certain generation, Bellevue was
decommissioned as a hot as a mental institution a long time
ago. I don't remember the year.
Maybe I should have looked up for New York history, but it's
been decommissioned probably after The Walking Dead started,
because then that would make sense right Now, if these
children do have some sort of mental condition, I could easily

(22:37):
see that factoring into all of this.
And maybe that is a key to understanding of the nature of
lurkers as a whole, that maybe there is some sort of cognitive
thing that carries over in termsof brain waves and brain
synapses firing. Maybe certain senses are
decommissioned. I'll give you a little history
lesson on Bellevue Hospital if you want.
Sure. My rambling gave you time to

(22:58):
pull it up. It did.
Bellevue Hospital, officially NYC Health and Hospitals slash
Bellevue and formerly known as Bellevue Hospital Center, is a
hospital in New York City and the oldest public hospital in
the United States. One of the largest hospitals in
the US by number of beds, it is located at 462 1st Ave. in the
Kipps Bay neighborhood of Manhattan.

(23:19):
Bellevue is also home to a fire department EMS Station O 8,
which is formerly EMS Station 13.
The hospital was founded and opened in March of 1736, making
the hospital 289 years old, which is crazy.

(23:40):
Older than the country's founding.
It's insane. Historically crazy.
Things happened there. Was so frequently associated
with this treatment of mentally ill patients that Bellevue
became a local pejorative slang term for a psychiatric hospital.
Correct. The hospital has since developed
into a comprehensive major Medical Center including
outpatient, specialty and skilled nursing care as well as

(24:02):
emergency and inpatient services.
Contains a 25 story patient carefacility and has an attending
physician staff of 1200 and an in house staff of 5500.
This is a massive place. It is a safety net hospital
providing healthcare for individuals regardless of their
insurance status or ability to pay, and it handles over half a
million patient visits each year.

(24:24):
There was city reorganization that started in 19 O 20 and the
administrative Bellevue and Allied Hospitals organization
were formed by the city under President John Brannon.
It also included several other hospitals in the area.
So, Governor Hospital, is that what?
You. Said Harlem and Fordham.

(24:44):
It also opened its doors to female and black physicians,
which was heard of at the time in the midst of a tuberculosis
epidemic. A year later, the Bellevue Chest
Service was founded. Then they started doing cardiac
work in the early 1900s as well,which was simply not a thing.
This was like really cutting edge technology for hospitals.
PS 106, the first public school for the emotionally disturbed

(25:08):
children located in a public hospital, opened at Bellevue in
1935 and in 1939 David Margolis began work on 9 work projects,
administration murals and entrance Rotunda titled
Materials of Relaxation, which were completed in 1941.
Bellevue became the the site of the world's first hospital

(25:29):
catastrophe unit. The same year, the world's first
cardio pulmonary laboratory was established at Bellevue by Andre
Cordon and Dickinson Richards. A year later, the nation's first
heart failure clinic opened, staffed by Eugene Bronwald in
1952. In 1960, New York City's Office
of the Chief Medical Examiner moved out of the second floor
and into its new building at 5201st Ave. but still maintain

(25:52):
close relations with Bellevue. Bellevue joined the New York
City Health and Hospitals Corporation as one of 11 acute
care hospitals in 1970. And in 1981 it was certified as
an official heart station for cardiac emergencies.
And a year later it was designated as a micro surgical
re implantation Center for the city of New York.

(26:13):
And by 1983 Level 1 trauma center and by 88 head and spinal
cord injury center. And in 1990, it established an
accredited residency program andemergency medicine and the
building that formerly served asa hospital psychiatric facility
started to be used as homeless. Take an immense homeless shelter
in 1998. I mean, I would argue by the

(26:35):
early 1900s it no longer was just a psychiatric facility, but
because it was a TB center, thatwould have been predominantly
what it was considered, which happened with a large hospital
up in Asheville, NC as well. TB.
Was it a large TB center? So it was like people flocked
there and then the only people that live there were people who

(26:56):
had TB until antibiotics became pop, sure.
And then suddenly those people could be healed and move on.
Anyway, that was a lot of information and I.
Apologize 298. Basically it was.
The psychiatric unit was used as.
How much I see well and then it so it did ever really
decommission I guess not technically not because it's

(27:18):
just. It just kept growing.
They kept adding in all these additional hospital services and
so now it's just a hospital. Did the public school inside the
hospital does that? Did that remain a thing and this
is more for children who need extra care?
That, I'm not sure. Yeah, it was.
It was for children who like essentially were

(27:38):
psychologically. Special needs.
Emotionally disturbed is the terminology from back then, but
this would be like children withadditional psych psychiatric.
Means, yeah, well, they and thenwell, and that's sort of
reflected, I think in this episode essentially because they
all sort of had the same. I'm trying.
I'm trying to think of like. I'm trying to think of this in
terms of like the world ended in2010. 22,008 to US technically.

(28:04):
OK. Well, the reason I say 2010 is
because in April 2010, plans to redevelop the former psychiatric
hospital building as a hotel andConference Center fell through.
So that was like what they were pushing at that time.
That's just kind of interesting.Wow.
OK, all this to say an additional thing, which was
throughout our time talking about The Walking Dead universe,

(28:24):
and we'll go back to the chat ina second because I know there
was a lot of complaining back and forth, but.
I'm reading it now. The the universe has tended to
kind of shy away from showing zombie children and only showing
them in the case of, let's say, because it was, I don't think it
was the same Walker, but becauseof course there was the Gus
Walker in The Walking Dead. Gus.
When I say Gus Walker, I'm talking about Jeffrey Dean

(28:46):
Morgan's kid, Gus. Dude this this kid looked like
Gus. It was Gus, yeah.
I don't know for 100% for sure, but I'm pretty sure it just
looked different in terms of thezombie prosthetics.
I think that kid was much younger than Gus now.
I mean, that was several years ago.
That kid looked young, but he did look like Gus.
Didn't he look like Gus? Yeah, he looked like.

(29:07):
I'm pretty sure it was a it was a different camera angle that
made him look younger because you could see he's he's at
cowboy level. Normally he would be.
He's like the cameras. Sorry, there was a cowboy shot,
which means. Cowboy level David, get lost,
get so lost. Gets so lost this bitch who
doesn't want to learn camera andswearing.

(29:28):
David, no swearing. Pitch is not a swear in my
world. Neither is the a word, but you
won't let us say that. Like, say, ass, because that's a
donkey. For crying out loud.
I need a list. So if you notice the camera
angle with the Gus Walker, I'm calling it Gus Walker.
Yeah, he's his head is basicallyat the bottom of the frame,
which is trying to indicate, oh,this is a young child

(29:51):
essentially, right? That camera angle is super high
up but also still only shows like the first half of his body.
So it's trying to like indicate like a smaller perspective, like
we represent the Lollipop Guild.Wow, OK.
I know, I know all about that, and so I thought that was pretty
cool, but clearly it was his kid.

(30:12):
It's definitely his kid for sure100%.
Well, we don't know that and we're not going to.
We're not just going to say thatif we don't know.
We can look it up, but I'm pretty sure it is.
But anyway, going back to the point, the fact that they showed
so many kids, so many undead children was kind of again, like
added to this whole, the whole excitement of this episode going

(30:32):
flipping back and forth between Maggie and Negan.
OK, I would argue that they've never shield away from Walker
kids because it's literally in the very first episode.
How which? That one incase does not make a
pattern. There's a fair amount because
that was always a thing that like they wanted.
They wanted that jock value. But here's the thing, Rachel's

(30:54):
going to leave in like 10 minutes.
So I'm going to cut you off and say, Rachel, say what you got to
get off your chest. We only didn't talk about
Bellevue. Bellevue this, Bellevue this.
Sorry. I'm sorry, why she apologize?
I was kidding. I thought it was.
Interesting to go shut up dude. Apologize.
See, she doesn't love me enough for Rachel because obviously

(31:16):
she's not yelling at. I know she's not mean enough to
you. Right, you yell.
I'm going to tell. I'm going.
To tell you to shut your face. And say something else.
Thank you, I appreciate that. Why am I thanking her?
And he's still going, still talking.
Awesome. I don't know, I, I kind of said
earlier this wasn't this wasn't my favorite episode.

(31:36):
I could, you know, say why I OK Maggies tired.
Wow, She hasn't slept. She's worried about her kid.
Wow. Like it's still annoying.
Like everything that she's doingis just annoying.
And yeah, when she looked over the edge in my heart of heart.
So I was like, just jump, just do it.

(31:57):
Just jump, Go. But at the same time, I know
that feeling. I mean, I'll say I am afraid of
heights, but more than that, I'mafraid of the compulsion to
jump. I have that feeling because I'll
be standing at the edge of something and I'm like, oh,
that's scary. I I I shouldn't jump?
Isn't it weird because I, I didn't ever like, think that

(32:17):
that was what made tights so scary to me.
It didn't have like, the conscious thought.
The more I was thinking about it, I'm like, yeah, the
impulsivity comes to me. Like at those moments I'm up
high and I'm like, oh, wouldn't that be weird if all the sudden
I just fell to my death? Wouldn't that be weird if all
the sudden someone came up behind me and they knocked into
me and then I fell to my death? Like that's what I'm thinking of

(32:40):
all the time is like how I woulddie.
I don't know why I. Have to stop myself from taking
a running swan dive because I'm like I know I can't fly but.
It's like, well, you never know what jumping to your death would
feel like unless you did it. Unless you did it.
Yeah, it's like, but logically it's the one thing you can't
take back. But it might be, it could be

(33:02):
like, really awesome. Most painful death ever.
No, I don't think you'd feel a thing.
I mean, unless you felt you likeyou hit some things along the
way. Yeah.
I guess that part would suck forlike a second.
Fell at an awkward angle to be honest.
I don't think you would feel it.I think you would have so much
adrenaline rushed rushing through your body at that point
you wouldn't even feel a a any broken.

(33:24):
Bleed out before pain receptors had a chance to.
I don't. Think you would feel anything?
I don't think it would be amazing and we should probably
stop talking about that now or I'm going to go find a Cliff.
Somewhere, right? Exactly.
But Maggie, just Maggie's behavior was was super annoying.
I get that she was tired, whatever, but like you're
crossing this glass bridge. What's the one thing you're not

(33:46):
supposed to do? Don't look down and then she
looks down and then she's laying.
That's just. How did she get to looking down
though? With her face she looked down
with her. Eyes and her face.
It was annoying. She didn't look down at all
until Bridget. Until she.
Fell. No.
But how did she fall? No, she looked down while she
was standing up. But she.

(34:07):
Couldn't see anything because ofthe reflection.
She couldn't see anything because there was a reflection.
I could see things, how could she not?
Play by play, Bridget. Why don't what happened?
I don't remember exactly. Dave, don't be ridiculous.
I do not remember that. So that was I.
I was going to avoid me dominating the conversation, but
OK, what happens is she's she's walking OK.

(34:28):
Of course there's a weird force perspective view because
apparently this is the twisted sky bridge between the two
buildings that fell that the crane caught and when it fell
the floor is now sideways. Aggie throughout this episode to
establish the fact that she is not quite first of all
physically. 100% say that as an understatement because she

(34:50):
hasn't slept. This is a common refrain in fear
of The Walking Dead. We saw this with the Alicia
throughout season. I think it was 7 or no yeah,
season 7 or 6 or something like that.
Like this girl hasn't slept. It was closer to the end because
it wasn't super great right now.Right.
Well, there's season 7 and I remember we, we just constantly
talked about Alicia not sleeping.

(35:11):
But anyway. Anyway, Maggie's not sleeping
now. Arguably despairing because I
think there's that, that tether.She's lost the last tether to
her child. Effectively, she doesn't have
her, doesn't have him. They're on the outs.
She's trying to find him and there's that impulse like, and
this is a parallel to what Neganis experiencing as well.
They'd be better off. They'd be better off without me.

(35:33):
And that's, that's hard. So there's that.
She gets dizzy because of the force perspective, the
tiredness, etcetera. She falls on the floor that is
now a wall and of course she falls down face 1st and when she
wakes up all she can see is ground.
No, I think she fell on her back.
She has to turn around to like, try to get up.
I thought that was what had happened.

(35:54):
She fell on her face. She she fell forward.
The. Walkers knock her.
She crumpled to her knees. Oh yeah yeah yeah, you're right
you're right you're right. She was fighting with the
walkers. One came as she was resting on
the floor AK the wall, the walk.I think 3 walkers came yeah.
That's why I wrote this down too.
And then obviously she falls over afterwards because she's
exhausted and she crumbles to face first onto the floor.

(36:16):
She's like, she looked at the floor, she was brought to her
knees basically, and she fell face forward and the glass
starts to crack, etcetera, etcetera.
You know the whole story basically.
But when she kind of opens her eyes when after crumpling down,
it's all floor. She all she sees is the ground
beneath her, the very thing she's been staring into the
abyss about. And then the glass starts
cracking and she's wondering, well, it could end right here

(36:38):
and it'd be fine. And she says to me like she's
he's like go, go, go. And she's like, I can't, I
can't. Like, I know that you're annoyed
by Maggie, but there's there, there's got to be, there's got
to be part of you that does thatcan connect to this.
Like, I know you, this is the thing that I've said before.
I know that it's hard to watch somebody that's pathetic,

(37:00):
period. Doesn't matter who it is,
really. You want your protagonist to be
heroes. You want them to persevere.
You want them to overcome watching a pity party sort of
tragedy porn is not necessarily what we want out of our
protagonists, But there's a story here that has to play out
in order to get to the payoff. And I think in arguably you sort
of get that at the end when she's holding Nilay off the out

(37:23):
of the window. Apparently now she's driven
enough to kind of like not want to fall into the abyss to hold
him over the edge. There's there's a translation
happening here too. I'm not trying to convince you
of anything. I'm just saying this is what I
saw. But I did look into the fear
that we're talking about. The compulsion to jump paper was
actually written about this. Let me read what I've
highlighted though. It's from Nautilus, which is

(37:45):
Nautilus dot US and it's the difficulties, difficulties
presented by these effects. Excellent source.
It's a science paper, a blog, you dingbat.
The. Us convinced?
The title is why you feel the urge to jump.
The difficulties presented by these effects faulty visual

(38:05):
perspective, poor body control, weak vestibular signaling, the
overestimation contribute to making acrophobia, or fear of
heights, one of the most common phobias in the world, affecting
one in 20 people. But unlike snake, spider or
blood phobias, acrophobia can produce a bizarrely
counterintuitive effect, the impulse to yield to the source
of panic and willingly jump. As complex as our fear of

(38:28):
heights is, the urge to jump is even more difficult to explain.
Jennifer Haines, a clinical psychology professor at the
University of Notre Dame specializing in suicidal
behavior, has dubbed the sudden impulse to jump the high place
phenomenon HPP in a landmark 2012 paper.
So well, had she had the apocalypse not happened, she
would have published it. In a landmark 2012 paper, she
and her colleagues found that half of 431 subjects who'd never

(38:52):
considered suicide had thought about leaping from high
elevations. And there's a reference Among
people with past suicidal thoughts, 75% felt the urge to
jump. She theorizes that the urge may
come from a misinterpretation ofa signal sent to the conscious
brain of the body safety systems.
Our fear circuitry, which includes the amygdala and other

(39:12):
fast acting subconscious brain regions, may send an alarm to
the prefrontal cortex for interpretation.
Your conscious processing, whichoperates at a slower speed than
than the fear circuitry, recognizes the alarm signal but
may not know why it was sent. So basically there are parts of
your brain that are acting faster than your conscious
brain. And when it sends the signal to

(39:33):
your conscious brain, it doesn'tknow what it's doing.
And by then you're already jumping essentially.
And you catch yourself just likeMaggie catches herself, like
Nilay is catching her catch herself.
So it's very fascinating stuff. I could go on, but I will not.
But I thought that was kind of interesting because it explains
that phenomenon. And you know, there's obviously
intense research on this subjectmore recently than is right.

(39:56):
Well, the old expression was it's not the fear of heights,
it's the fear of falling. And here it's like, well, no,
actually, it's the misinterpreted signal by your
brain sending you an alarm. That you'll such a slowly for
some for some. Reason you'll jump before you
receive or interpret that signalbasically like a misfiring or
misinterpretation of that fear to even bring it to a personal
level. And we'll move on and we'll talk

(40:17):
about the chat. I feel this not only on the on
the exhaustion level, but there's a thing that happens to
me when I get super, super depressed and I think many of
you may feel this. I kind of just shut down.
I get super tired. Everything exhausts me.
Not like on a, oh, I'm feeling really tired.
You know, literally if I fall asleep now, I will not wake up
for an extremely long time or I'll wake up in fits and then

(40:40):
just go back to sleep because I just don't want to face whatever
thing that I have to face. And so that I think that kind of
helped me and I can, I just can recall any given moment in time
in my past where that's happenedto me.
And as Maggie goes throughout this episode, I feel her
despairing. I can feel that despair and feel
like, why bother? Why?
What am I doing this for? And then, like, when I think of

(41:00):
the audience, like represented by Rachel, let's say, right now,
because she's the only one that's here that feels this way.
Maybe, I don't know, Bridget, you can weigh in in a SEC.
But like when I see then the audience feel that way, I feel
it even harder in a sense because maybe they're right.
Like maybe I should give up. Like I'm putting myself in her
shoes. I'm saying that's what I'm
that's why I'm saying like to relax, guys, I'm OK.

(41:20):
But I'm just saying I'm, I'm tapping into that feeling of
feeling of midwell, if everybody's telling everybody
else is telling you to give up, maybe I should.
And so that I kind of had that in my watch for some reason, I
could. And you know what, the world
would be better off. And so that made me really,
really on top of like the suspenseful nature of the
filming and going back and forthbetween The Abyss and Maggie, I,

(41:42):
I started feeling like that partof it, the fear impulse and the
urge impulse and also like the despair impulse.
Just all that coming together made for a really exciting
episode for me to watch. But also how rude make me feel
this way. Bridget, do you feel similarly
to Rachel in that respect? Of a fear not to.
You know, of like annoyance withMaggie?

(42:03):
No, I don't think I do. I mainly was like, this is weird
and kind of dumb. That's like, I'm so exhausted I
can't go on because I'd be OK with it.
And she's had a rough day, don'tget me wrong.
But she did sleep. She did sleep that last episode.
Started with her. Waking up.
They. Slept overnight at Bruble's

(42:24):
place. Yeah, they slept.
So I'm just kind of like, OK, like, I get the stress, don't
get me wrong. Like I, my you're talking about
like this is your reaction to depression.
It's not mine, but it is my reaction to stress.
Whenever I have a lot to do, I feel more tired than I've ever
felt in my entire life. And I would just like to go to
sleep, but I can't because I have too much to do.

(42:45):
And if I sleep, I won't get it done.
So what do I do? I go take a freaking nap and I'm
going to sleep until 4:00 in themorning because I've convinced
myself I'm going to get up at 4:00 in the morning.
I'm going to do what I need to do before I have to go to work
or before I have to go to the airport or whatever.
But that's a lie. I'm not going to wake up then.
I'm going to sleep through the alarm and then my husband's
going to be mad because I snoozed like 20 times and he's

(43:06):
like, just get up. Why did you even set the alarm
if you're not even going to get up?
And then I'm like panicked because I didn't get anything
done. Now he's mad at me.
It's a whole thing. Adds more stress to it's.
A whole thing for me. And then do you ever end up
doing it? Because I'm curious because I've
been, it's half and half with me.
Like I will not do it. Well, I gave you such a specific
scenario, I feel like you know Imust do this thing like this.

(43:28):
I feel like you do get end up getting it done right though
like 99% of the time. No, not 100.
No, not always, I mean. Majority.
No. Anyway, my issue with this is
that it almost seemed as though she was drugged.
We're beyond exhaustion and trust me, I've been exhausted.
I have been exhausted. I've I accidentally took night

(43:50):
time Excedrin. At work.
When I was hungover to this day I remember exactly how I felt
because it was so bad I'd gottenlike 2 hours of sleep.
I went and bought Excedrin from down at the corner market.
It was night time apparently andI took it and then I was like
jacked up for the rest of my shift and standing at a

(44:12):
calculator trying to input. I looked like it was nodding
out. And I worked with a bunch of
drug addicts at the time so I'm sure that's what everyone
thought about me. But anyway the way.
That she was acting he was possibly drugged.
It almost seemed like the crow had had drugged her and then I
was like, did she take anything from him at any point like water
or something? I was trying to trying to put
that together because this was ahard sell for me.

(44:34):
I get what story they're trying to spend, but something missed
the mark. I'm.
Looking to that possibility. Something missed the mark here.
There were really cool moments in this episode, so I'm not
saying that I didn't like it. There were some really great
moments in this episode. The Negan scenes were
phenomenal. I honestly I just wanted to go
back to the Negan scenes. The scenes with the Kroat were
actually quite good. I enjoyed this storytelling

(44:56):
about him and his mother and allyou know all this stuff and the
references to his mother even though clearly he knew his
mother was dead. I loved a lot of this episode
but these scenes this like falling out situation I just
couldn't get behind. I could if there had been some
other development in the season,like, is Maggie malnourished due

(45:18):
to like, the lack of abundance of crop at the bricks?
Is this a thing? You know, we haven't seen them
eat a ton. Is that part of it?
Even just a passing line would have sold that enough for me to
be like OK that's what it is. And the Korat said it too.
I'm all for like, not giving heavy exposition, you know,
show, don't tell, great. But this was a case in which

(45:40):
this was a hard sell for me. And all I could remember was the
the methane poisoning. And I was like, this is weird.
This is weird and I don't like it.
And also, is any of it real? At one point I was I was trying
to think of like whether the Korat himself was real.
That's how I felt too bad at theend I was like is the dummy even
really alive dude? Like.

(46:02):
It just all. All of it.
All of it just felt like weird and disconnected and I I felt
like, am I too tired to watch? This and you knocked Maggie out.
Was it Herschel? Maybe, maybe she just.
Passed out. Maybe she just passed.
Maybe. Nobody knocked her out.
She. Just passed out because.
Yeah, maybe. Maybe above.
Maybe. I like it.

(46:23):
I'm sorry you didn't like this episode as much, Rachel.
I will say it it. Wasn't it wasn't my favorite.
I wanted to talk more about Herschel and and the whole scene
and what that means, but I'm tired and it's.
Well then everybody say goodnight to everybody.
Goodnight. Goodnight, you froze.
Why are you looking at me so weird?
It's a It was a good because. You froze for a second.

(46:43):
You were like. This seen it now Rachel's naggy
OK why why are you being. Weird, but the difference is I'm
going to bed. Maggie needs to take a nap if
she's that tired. She did sleep.
She did sleep. So get it together sister.
I don't know what's going on with her but it was annoying.

(47:04):
And the Negan. I found the Negan stuff a little
annoying too. Not it was annoying because I
was convinced things were happening and then they weren't
happening and I'm like son of A.It was just, it was annoying.
That's what was annoying. The Sharandy effect hating
hallucination. And I'm like, OK, now you've
wasted my time. Cool.

(47:24):
Thanks. All right.
Good night. Good night.
And there we are. Good night, Rachel.
And. Then there were two We missed a
whole bunch of chat. We did miss a lot of chat.
OK so Tess this is in reference to Benjamin Pierce and Negan
sharing memory. Tess says he doesn't remember a

(47:44):
lot from the before and share toshare different stories from the
past. World before the zombies in a
safer safer time. Life was different before the
outbreak. Good times and bad.
The overlap of keeping a different type of living.
And then charity said I got the dormant part.
What upset me was that these people are still letting kid
walkers freak them out. I'd be freaked out.

(48:06):
Are you? Kidding.
I mean they're creepy, but like,I get what she's saying.
Can. We drill down on that a little
bit before you continue. So Maggie encounters in season
11. This is like in the middle of
season 11. They're on the train tracks
after having, I don't know, I don't remember exactly when this
happens, but she's on the train tracks alone trying to go after
Herschel. I think she's heading towards
Alexandra to Outpost 22 at the time is what they called it.
And she encounters a child Walker on the tracks, and it's

(48:29):
similar to what Negan encountersin the hospital, where he just
can't bring himself to kill thatkid Walker.
And she struggles and she struggles.
And I think in the end, somebodyelse uses the crossbow.
I don't know if it was Daryl or whatnot, but somebody else ends
up taking out that kid Walker. Someone else does end up there.
I do not remember. I don't.
Remember, I think she like. Just watched it a long ago

(48:50):
either. Yeah, she does.
She has to hide too during that point because a Commonwealth
soldier comes up on like a bike.Has no problem killing that
person or something to that effect.
I can't remember what I just I could not get that out of my
head how those scenes are parallel.
Yeah. Each other.
Sorry, keep going. Tess said I explore it that
would be an interesting adventure because of the history

(49:12):
charity says by upset I mean irritated the crap out of me.
Tess also said I think Negan waspicturing Joshua as a Walker and
it threw him off. I agree Sharon D kid walkers
aren't new. Bridget is the back story
insider. You might end up on the bottom
and survive with so much pain with bones shattered.
She's referencing the jumping. You could actually live.

(49:32):
That has happened to people. The skydivers in particular.
Well, no, it's happened to people who've been trying to
kill themselves, Dave. Yeah.
Yeah. In like river basins.
Crazy spinal dysplasias and all that stuff too.
Yeah, Tess had also said that she did have to turn over after
killing the walkers. Like she was on her back, and I
felt like she had had to turn over.

(49:52):
That's when it started cracking,and then that's when she had to
like Spark. To pick herself up, yes.
But then she froze. She looked directly down, but
before she moved further down the bridge and that increased
the Vertigo. Sharon, he said.
Good thing Ray's in a basement apartment makes it harder to
jump and and when your brain. The only way is up.
When your brain says jump, you say how high and then Tess said

(50:14):
that she completely related to what you were talking about with
the depression and the giving up.
Thank you. She may have had a restless
sleep. That could be why she was so
tired. Of course.
Sharon D said I've stayed up forthree days and not been falling
out like Maggie and. Can can we just interject for
one second? Because I don't think she slept.
I mean, in fact, she woke up quote UN quote to Herschel's

(50:36):
footsteps and then that the bearfight happens and takes him all
the way into the morning, I guess is what I.
Know they actually leave that scene because I remember
thinking like wake up, wake, getup, get up, you're not even
asleep was what I thought at thetime during the episode.
But she doesn't move when he's like getting up and moving, so
she must have been asleep. For a little while, but I think

(50:57):
and just to piece it together and now I'm getting it because
OK, she kills the bear, which happens in the early morning.
Herschel dips after he does his side throw.
It's early morning still, which is why it's so dark.
It's like maybe 4:00 AM, Something to that effect.
It's still dark. She's want.
People so it's. Early morning then?
Yeah, it was early morning. Yeah, but it was like.

(51:17):
They're cleaning up. It's already 9:00 or so, 8:00 or
something like that, but she's going straight to the church to
see Negan outside the advice, blah, blah, blah, etcetera,
etcetera. Then she heads straight to King
Francis Theatre, which probably takes.
You would think it would be like, normally it would be like
20 minutes you're going through.Yeah, I get it.
Could take. Longer because the walkers, the
dominated and that's. At night it is.

(51:38):
It is dark, no? That's in the morning still.
Sorry. That's in the morning still.
No. So she's been she hasn't gotten
much sleep. Dave The room is lit up with
sunlight when Herschel gets up. It's very early morning when he
gets up. When she catches him by the
reservoir, yes. About to dump the blood, yes.
So it's super early morning. OK, fine.
That's what I'm saying. Like it when it gets dark later,
that's. At night.

(51:58):
So I would argue then she hasn'treally slept then.
She's been looking for Herschel since the bear attack.
I understand that you're on adrenaline.
It's it's not enough for this. This is too severe of a reaction
is what I'm saying. I don't, I disagree because even
if you're saying it's at night when she heads to the church,
that means she's been up all day, correct?

(52:19):
Which makes it even worse. I don't think she slept too much
because she roused from whateverlight sleep she was roused by
when Herschel passes her by. Which means she wasn't really
sleeping. I mean, she was, but she wasn't.
She's on alert, yeah, but I mean, she's been up the whole
day. She goes to the next day,
etcetera, etcetera. I and there's also the
emotional. Problem.
Tired. You would be tired.

(52:41):
I'm saying To be nearly passing out while standing up seems
excessive. To and then, then, then my
explanation of, well, it's not about the physical fatigue as
much it is as it is the mental fatigue, which is completely, as
you've said in the past, wholly understandable.
Well, I understand everybody. No, I understand that it does
not lead to you passing out likethat.

(53:02):
Argue differently just from my own experience.
OK, I this is from my experience, I think it's, I
think this is over the town. Your experience is wrong.
OK, I just, I think you're goingto find that that's I am joking.
I think you're going to find that that's what this is
probably the issue that most people had with this episode.
That's OK, they can be wrong too, like you.
It's you join the wrong. I don't care if you think I'm

(53:22):
wrong, but I'm just saying I think the.
Wrong club has many seats open. I can be facetious, I hope you
know that. Yeah.
And then OK, and then she no. Sharon D Sharon D brings up
another good point. So she brings up.
She says she slept long enough for the crowd to fix her a
flashlight, which is. 15 minutes.
No, it would have probably takena little bit longer than that,
but there is like some sleep that's.

(53:43):
Happening yeah, but that big oldtire I I don't know I feel like
she yeah, of course she passed out I'm gonna.
Feel rested. I'm not saying you would wake up
and be like, oh, I'm refreshed. She's so refreshed, she.
Also, wouldn't be like like I it's one thing like you're so
afraid maybe you passed out withthe bridge like that.
I can like that. I can kind of write off a little

(54:05):
bit. And she's been going up and
down, too, with her adrenaline, too.
And she wakes up and what is thefirst thing that she does?
She's on alert. She's picking up her.
She has her knife at the ready for.
Yeah. I'm not saying that she I like I
just I just think it seems really unrealistic.
I'm having a hard time with this.
Well. We can disagree on that, but
that's OK. He said those moments left
different roads that could be discussed in future episodes and

(54:25):
different perspectives. And Charity said, I agree
Bridget, it was hard to tell what was real and what was, what
was dream sequenced or what was like hallucination.
I agree. I think pairs well with the
Negan scenes. You have to admit that going
back and forth between Negan, you know, basically he has a
concussion, I think, Yeah. And I that's like his scenes are

(54:47):
more believable. I.
Think that's a gateway though. I think it's a bridge, a twisted
bridge between the two. I just think.
Which is the thing in filming this is a little you can
parallel this. Is a little more believable to
me. You know, he gets concussed.
That makes sense. That's the thing.
Did Maggie hit her head if she had fallen like down the
staircase or something when she hit that booby trap?
It just needed like a slight deviation for me to.

(55:08):
Believe it, a push. Maybe it just needed a little
bit for me to believe it, that'sall.
And Charity said I've had to pull over and take a nap because
I was snapping in and out like that, to be honest.
That's why I've learned to take a little longer on in my drives
down to Georgia. Yeah, I know how to pace myself
now. Whereas before, it's like I have
kid energy. I can do it all when shot and

(55:29):
just fill up and pee in a Gatorade bottle, a Powerade
bottle. Yeah, that's right.
I never did that. I'm just saying I could have,
but I didn't. Well, driving is different.
You're seated. There's scientific reasons as to
why you become tired more quickly when you're seated, and
it has to do with like the compression of your organs and
the restriction of your blood flow.
Being upright and walking that naturally helps you to stay.

(55:52):
Away different hormones and chemicals get released because
of it. Yeah.
It's not this up, down or resting state that you're in
when you're in the car and yet all of your synapses are firing
so you're getting exhausted and that you're brain tired.
Yeah. You know, if you told me like,
oh, she drove 14 hours to get here, then I could, like,
believe it. Here's my greater issue with
this, Dave is like you're sayinglike, OK, well, I'm saying it is

(56:14):
believable, so that's fine. And that's fine for you.
That's fine for me. I understand that that's fine
for you, but what's frustrating to me is that this isn't super
strong writing. And so I don't feel good saying,
saying, Oh yeah, I'm willing to write it off.
I just can't. Disagree.
I will say this is probably my favorite.
I understand that you're. Saying that you disagree.
I understand that, Dave. What I'm saying is that like,

(56:37):
just because you think that it'sfine doesn't detract that.
Like I am saying that this is not great writing.
Like, nobody has to take my opinion as fact, but I'm just
saying, like, in my opinion, this is not great.
There are great. Again, there are great parts to
this episode. Yeah, this was a very.
Thing that you're wrong, by the way, it's a very I will say I I
take your feedback as Intel on how I'm I'm to perceive this

(56:59):
episode, even though I felt differently.
It's fine. That's why we do this.
I mean I. Am joking.
I'm totally joking. I don't want you to be on my
train. I'm just going to give you my
experience and be like. No, I understand that.
I understand. I just want you like, I just
want you to understand that I feel like there are probably a
lot of people out there that like just they do feel this way
just because. Again, I I wonder the following

(57:20):
and I think is, is this also, I mean, I feel like the answer is
rhetorical, but I think a lot ofthis is contributed by the fact
that, you know, Lauren Cohen left The Walking Dead.
I don't know about unceremonious.
I know her contract ran out too.There was a part of that going
on too. And so she couldn't.
An opportunity is something new,so I could see trying to take
that she. Wasn't offered a contract
renewal. That's the thing.

(57:42):
Meaning like it was like Daryl Carroll.
Sorry, Daryl Norman Reed is. Melissa.
Melissa McBride and it was one other one other actor.
I think it was Danai Gurira, andthey came in first and she
wasn't off for the contract renewal.
She could have asked for it, butshe didn't.
And she took it as a they ran out.
And so in that period of runningout, she took the opportunity to

(58:03):
say, hey, I'm think I'm going toleave the show.
And they were like, OK, peace. And then we'll figure it out.
And I think that factors into, let's say, hardcore fans will
call it hardcore fans of how they perceive the character as a
result. Of course you shouldn't hate the
actor or the character when one does something awful, right?
At the same time, I can understand how that can factor

(58:24):
in. But you're going to read the
chat now and completely ignore me.
No, no, no. What I'm saying is like, I get
what you're saying. I didn't feel that way about
Lauren Cohen. I don't have.
I'm not saying that, I'm saying does that in any way factor.
In No, no, no, I don't have any beef with her.
And I even talked, I even talkedat the beginning of this season
about how like for the first time, it felt like she was her
again, like that she was Maggie in the season, like she had come

(58:47):
into the season really strongly.It's definitely possible.
It varies from person to person,Sharon, he says.
A 20 minute nap is enough to rejuvenate you.
I agree under normal circumstances because that's
what I do. Wait, F them kids again.
I guess. Sharon D's here.
Hey. Sharon D.
Hello. Yeah, I absolutely agree.
Tess, what are you agreeing to? Maybe Sharon D.
Oh, OK. You're saying.
Kim says according to the studies, being awake for 48

(59:08):
hours can have similar effects on cognitive and motive
performances. Blood alcohol concentration of
0.1 or higher, 0.1% or 0.10% or higher.
But like it produces a BAC effect similar to being above
the being drunk basically. Which is basically what I'm
saying it. And then going from rapidly from

(59:30):
a an alert state to a your normal state does take a toll on
you physically too. I can see that easily being the
case, having almost fallen from a sky bridge and then suddenly
being brought back in. Heather says, popping in to say
hi and that this was not a good episode for me to watch while
distracted and trying to multitask.
No, no it is not. Numerous times I was like, wait,

(59:52):
what's going on? What did I miss?
Yeah, you should concentrate forthis episode or else you won't
appreciate it actually. I did concentrate and appreciate
it that much. It was not that great.
Test says finally. You definitely had to lock in
for this episode. Yeah, I agree. 100% I mean like
I get what they were trying to draw this parallel between Megan
and Maggie with them both being loopy or whatever but I agree

(01:00:14):
with Bridget this just wasn't well written.
Like Negan I get he fell down but then again he fell down
because it was a kid Walker. Like they're 17 years into the
apocalypse. You're telling me you haven't
dealt with Kid Walker Walkers. This kid Walker wasn't anything
special to you but. They've never dealt well with
it. They've never really dealt with
it on the show. I'm saying in real life you
would have had to deal with kid walkers a lot throughout your 17

(01:00:38):
years surviving. It's just, it's just the way it
is. There's a lot of children in the
world and those children have become walkers and you will have
to deal with them. Not being able to deal with
seeing a kid Walker at this point in the apocalypse is.
It's just, it's not. It's not.
It's not believable to me at all.
Bridget, what do you have to because I already talked about
the chat. What do you think about the

(01:00:59):
chat? What was that in the chat?
So Kim see, like I shouldn't have to do deep research to feel
this feel like I can understand.That I didn't do any deep
research and I understood it completely.
But I guess some people don't have media literacy.
Wow, Dave. Oh, wow, Kim brought up a really
good point. So thank you, Kim.
And again. Again, she's wrong.
I. No, I'm not a Maggie hater.

(01:01:21):
I'm just, I'm like trying to reiterate I.
Like Maggie? I like Maggie, I always.
I like Maggie. So like, this is not me.
It's not me disliking Maggie by any means.
I know that that is people's like immediate default.
I see it all the time online, like Maggie's.
So she's so whiny. I'm the one who said last week,
like have some it. Doesn't have to be extreme.

(01:01:42):
I'm, I'm going to speak for myself.
I think for me on an unconsciouslevel, there is, it does factor
in for me a little bit and that maybe and that in my mind or
maybe my unconscious mind and I'm kind of be trying to be self
aware of it there. There has to be a little bit
more legwork when it comes to not redeeming Maggie per SE, or
even Lauren Cohan. But there is an element of,

(01:02:04):
well, make it worth having left the show that I think it's a
reasonable feeling. I'm not saying you do.
I'm saying speaking for. Me that doesn't even like none
of that even plays into this. For me, I'm just saying, even
for myself is what I'm saying isthat there is a a degree, a
degrees would have a reminder that, you know, I I would want
there to be a sort of OK, make this worth it.

(01:02:25):
And and that does apply to the show itself too.
How for a justify your existencejust be about hey, here's a
wacky premise. Let's pick the two people that
hate each other most in The Walking Dead universe and put
them together on a brand new spinoff.
In New York. City.
I mean, you have good chemistry,there's no denying that.

(01:02:45):
And I'm not even even talking about hate bank stuff.
I mean just just them on screen together.
That's clear. In my example they have really
very clear yes. It's not, it's not even that
they hate each other because they could be.
It could be they could be totally different characters and
they would still be great together on screen.
But my point is, it's not enough.
Look what they did in the, in The Walking Dead, Darrell Dixon,

(01:03:06):
you know what I mean? They they took the opportunity
to expand on these characters and give them more justice.
And I read an article. And I don't remember what it
was, so I'm sorry, I can't credit it.
It's just something I read somewhere and they were talking
about how part of the problem ofthe spin offs is they're not
changing. They're they're just doing the
same things over and over again,with the exception of Daryl
Dixon, which has gone in different directions and done

(01:03:29):
different things. But I think they proved right
because they're doing exactly what they did last season with
Maggie. Like I said earlier in the chat,
she was down in the in the catacombs, dizzy from the
methane, stumbling around. And now she's doing the exact
same everything. It was even the same episode.
And then this month, because we have more episodes this season.
But anyway, I mean, they are doing the same thing over and
over again. Maybe that's another problem I'm

(01:03:50):
having with the series because I'm really not enjoying it that
much. There's nothing exciting or new.
It's the same, look, here's a group that we're going to join
and now it's going to be destroyed because we joined it,
and now we have to fight the governor again, who has these
people behind him and he does weird things with walkers.
I mean, it's the same thing overand over again.

(01:04:11):
Yeah. You know what?
You're right, Herschel. We shouldn't go back to the old
way. Let's let's go towards the new.
As far as Maggie's concerned, I think, at least for her part, I
think that's intentional. I think it's taking Megan in a
direction that I think we've always wanted him to go to
confront this. It's not enough to apologize for
what you've done. Let's explore what that means

(01:04:33):
now going forward and how that relates to where you are now and
how it's coming up and bubbling up again.
You are being confronted with your past yet again and what it
means to have done what you've done.
And I think with this show, likejust skipping ahead to his part,
I think what the show is done with him and his character, and
it's a perfectly valid explanation.
We've always asked the question,you know what, why him?
We say the Riz and all that stuff and and all the silly

(01:04:56):
things. We like watching him on screen,
but that's for us as analysts. But I think as far as the
character goes, it's the same answer to the question of like,
why let Virgil live? It was a quintessential one on
The Walking Dead. Why let Virgil live after he did
all those things to to Michonne on Bloodsworth Island in The
Walking Dead season 10? Why that effort needs to die

(01:05:18):
because of what? Because of detrugged Michelin?
But the point was to say that while you're alive, while you
have breath, you have the ability to help people and do
good and be contribute A contributor, even though you did
terrible things because we've all done terrible things.
When you take that to somebody like Negan, it's not about being
redeemed per SE. And maybe you can never be
redeemed, but seeing, seeing it,the past, his past, the theme of

(01:05:42):
this episode is the past. Was it, do we go back or do we
make something new? Him confronting his past, not
just the past with the Saviors, past with Lucille and seeing
that come to a head and saying, well, it wasn't all bad because
that's the way you're seeing your past.
It wasn't all bad. You actually, Yeah, You call,
you say that it wasn't enough, but for me it was enough.

(01:06:02):
You bathed me, you dressed me, you got me up in the morning.
That is enough. That's more than enough.
That's more than most what most people would ask for before and
after the apocalypse, but especially after the apocalypse.
That's why I was excited for this series, Dave, because like
they are extending the story of characters who did not really
get an ending. Like we got the conversation in

(01:06:24):
the series finale of The WalkingDead.
We got the conversation between Maggie and Negan.
But for a lot of people that didn't feel like it was enough.
I felt like it was OK. Like I felt good about it.
I felt like it could have ended and it was fine.
But for other people, that was not enough.
And to know that Negan lives because that is his comic book
stories that he continues on after that.

(01:06:44):
And there's another additional story for him.
You knew that he was going on living in, that he was out there
in the world. And so you kind of want to know,
like, what happens? And for a lot of people who
really, really, really loved Glenn, they're like, there was
never any justice there. Now, if you really, really did
love Glenn, you know that Glenn wouldn't have wanted needing to
be killed. He wouldn't have wanted him to

(01:07:05):
be killed, but I was excited forthis because I was like great,
we can finally extend these characters stories and get it
kind of into the nitty gritty oflike what this means for them.
All that being said, even going into season 2, having season 1,
I guess I didn't assume there would be so much Herschel
content. I'm going to say this out loud
and it's going to sound so horrible.
I just don't care enough about him.

(01:07:27):
I don't have buy into him. He's not one of my.
Characters. I agree actually.
Like I feel I feel bad because like I should care, but like I I
just don't care care as much about him.
And we haven't really gotten a ton of character development for
him either. We got a little when he was a
kid, we. Never got to know him.
Yeah. So like, I don't really have one
feeling one way or the other. So then what does, what does

(01:07:48):
Herschel become in the absence of that, a foil for Maggie?
Yeah, I can concede this is whatI was trying to say before I was
trying to get to this point, which was I can see how people
are looking at this writing. And for Negan, it's great.
Now we're getting something some.
Yeah, sure. Pairing that with Maggie, I
think they're trying to build a bridge to Maggie through Negan.

(01:08:10):
There's two dissolves actually that work very well when they
flip back and forth between Negan and those.
Transitions were spectacular. So great, the flashlight one
where she finally gets it to work and does the the lightning
thing. More walkers arrive and she
barely makes it up before the court arrives to say bravo in
the maze, the Walker maze. And she passes out.
And when she passes out is a blur, dissolved and goes to

(01:08:31):
Negan, waking up to Gus Walker'sblood on his face.
Brilliant, brilliant again, because it's this is
storytelling. This is good writing.
It is. I'm not saying it's all good
writing. I'll give you.
That those, but those parts werefantastic.
I loved that and like I said, I was really I was really
intrigued by what was happening with Negan, so I wanted to go
back to his story. Like we talked about this in

(01:08:52):
Silo a lot when we were like just waiting for like the other
part of the story to come in. I.
Want to go but but but then it turned though because I remember
in Silo there were like moments like I want to go back here but
like then all of a sudden we want to go back there now
because that was interesting. Anyway, all this to really say
is that these scenes are meant to tell you these are not even 2
halves of the same hole. It's the same story when you're

(01:09:14):
looking at Negan saying justify my existence Maggie same energy
same energy when you look at theexhaustion you'd and you go back
to Negan and you see what he's actually saying with words
again. It's a form of show don't tell
where Maggie's not saying a word, but Negan is saying all
the Maggie words Negan is sayingwhy me after everything I've
done why me and Maggie is sort of the the same way why me why

(01:09:38):
go on Yeah over and over again. I can't say.
More like after I've done all ofthese things, she's like, after
I all these things have happened.
To me, been done. To me, yes, yes.
Yeah, I can get that I and like.Where's my role in?
Ever. I don't ever want to come off as
like just blatantly hating things, you know that I.
Never think that about. You, I never want to be that

(01:09:59):
person because that's how I found you guys was because I was
so tired of trying to find Walking Dead.
So tired like Maggie, except. Podcast everybody was just like
did you have steps and I was like wow OK what a unique and
interesting take on a series that everyone supposedly hates
except for me we're. Going to go into that in just a
couple hours and an hour. I don't want it to be like that.

(01:10:20):
I don't. I don't want it to come across
that way. I it's just sometimes I have to
like talk through these things because I'm frustrated when I'm
watching it and then I have to like talk through it to get.
Like maybe I shouldn't talk to you as much, yeah.
Let me work. Through it'll make it a little
bit more receptive. He's like, what are you an
idiot? What do you?
What do you don't? See that?
Hey. Media literacy, Bridget, even
though you make fun of everybodyelse for not having media

(01:10:41):
literacy. That was funny actually.
I think. Yeah, but not at all accurate
though. But funny to say actually.
Anyway, I wanted to interject atleast one thing so we can reset
a little bit. I didn't mention this from the
top, but there is a QR code on the screen if you happen to be
watching from your television where you can tip us during the
stream and your message when youleave.
A message during your tip will be read out loud by computer

(01:11:02):
programmed voice, with your message saying all the things
that you wanted to say out loud,bursting onto the scene and.
An image comes up. It's actually really cool.
But you'll have earned it, because hey, you're awesome and
your awesomeness seems to be busting onto the screen like a
kool-aid man. So get on that.
And of course you can. You can head over to
ko-fi.com/squawking Dead slash tip if you prefer.

(01:11:24):
It'll take you right to the donation screen and your message
will be read out loud. And so, and you can do this
after the podcast too if you happen to be watching on replay.
But if you did miss this live stream, you can watch on a
replay, but stop the replay and head on over to MCU's Bleeding
edge. The MCU's Bleeding Edge where
Bridge and I will be going live to talk about this episode again
under a different format so we can be a little bit more wacky.

(01:11:45):
And I'm going to watch Bridge. I'm making a prediction right
now when we go on to that podcast.
I know, because I know you a little bit better now, that you
will automatically take the other side of the argument.
Yes, instantly run to defend Maggie.
Am I wrong? You're not wrong.
You're not wrong. It's oppositional defiance
disorder. Yeah.
It's like as soon as they're like, this episode sucked, I'm

(01:12:08):
like you. You don't.
Only I can say that about Maggie.
Like. You sort of.
No one bites my little brother except for me.
That's like it. It taps into this like thing
that I had as a kid where I was like, totally, I get to beat him
up. You don't get to do that.
But who said that on one of these show?
Oh, it was. It was Walking Dead World

(01:12:29):
Beyond. And I know we're tangenting.
Kublik. Kublik.
Yes, Colonel Kublik and her daughter Huck.
But what was her? Actually Jennifer?
Jennifer Malik and she goes. Only I can hurt you.
Basically, I'm your mother and II'm the only one who could break
your heart and hurt you. Yeah.
You know, so that you can learn to talk.
About the show, except for me sometimes.

(01:12:49):
So you're Colonel Kublik basically, and all of you are
Jennifer Malik except for me. I get to because I it's love
when I brave Bridget a little bit, but not really at all.
So anyway, I mean, the visuals of Negan starting to, I know
this annoys you, Sharon D, but like even like when Denny's hair
comes out of her scalp in his dream, I thought that was a good

(01:13:12):
prepper for what's to come because it was startling.
I was like, what Jenny? She has cancer.
All of a sudden there's a lot ofmoments in these episodes that
were like, I was startled, I wasshocked and there was buy in for
me and which is why it kept happening.
It kept working. How did the episode start?
Because I remember the first scene I was like, is this a
dream sequence? And then it wasn't.
But then like, the very next Maggie sequence was a dream

(01:13:35):
sequence, and I was like, oh, sothis is what they're going to do
to us. This.
Again this episode, all right. French kiss, French kiss, dude,
you, you nailed it. Because the first scene is
Maggie walking to the King Francis Theatre and hearing the
spooky Aria, opera music and thestuff.
It's very unsettling. And you walk in and you discover

(01:13:56):
it's a Victrola or whatever witha wobbly warped vinyl record on
top. And then you go to the Negan
scene. Negan is with Jenny in his cell
bubble. Take seeing Hillary Burton
Morgan after he pulls out Denny's hair.
And then it you find out it's a dream again.
This is playing. Unfortunately the title cards
ruin that for me. You know what the even the

(01:14:16):
title. Do you know what happened?
When I saw the title cards, I was like wait, wait, wait, hold
on a minute. Oh yeah, I rewind.
I rewind. I was like, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait. Is she producing?
And then? Medina senior came on.
And I'm like, wait, go back again.
What is happening here? I was like, is she producing or
something? And then I was like, wait, wait,
go back. And I was like guest starring
Hillary Burton Morgan. And I was like, oh, OK, we're
getting a loose seal. That alone got me like jacked up

(01:14:39):
a bit. And so when I was watching this
episode, it just heightened. I know it's obviously a side
effect of just a personal, I'm not expecting any of you out
there to feel the same way as me.
But when I saw that going backwards, like I'm excited now,
then suddenly there's an automatic buy in for everything
that's to come. Sure.
And then I'm my heart's palpitating as Maggie's.
Don't push Maggie off the edge please.

(01:15:01):
So the same feeling I got when Daryl and Alpha were fighting in
season 10, was it? I think it was.
She manages to get one on him, like on the she slashes like the
top of his brow. And then the blood drips on his
eyes and he can't see. And she gets him in the leg and
he's just like, well, like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a
minute. You're saying that Daryl might

(01:15:22):
die? It's like the same thing with
Maggie. I'm like, I'm looking at every
scene. I'm like, cool you.
Nobody kills Maggie but me. Is that the feeling Midget?
Will. OK, so I'm going to say
something. It's been more things,
something. It's been kind of a fear that
I've had and I mentioned it I think earlier in the season I

(01:15:43):
did. I am really starting to think
that Negan is going to die. Like that Collider article just
said, and I think it was. Not that he has to just feel
like the way that this storylineis progressing, it makes me
think that he is going to die inthe act of something redemptive.
Has this been renewed for Season3?
I believe so is that I believe there's definitely going to be,

(01:16:03):
I believe there's definitely going to be a Season 3.
I believe them. Maybe, you know, I would say,
well, then we know he's going tolive because they can't have the
show without both. But you know what?
Spoiler alert for The Last of Us.
I'm not going to say. Yeah, if you don't.
If they can. Do you know?
Sort of if you don't know The Last of Us you, there's nothing
to know. Let me just say this.

(01:16:24):
You say Negan and everybody's been saying Negan.
You think it's Maggie? If they took out Maggie,
wouldn't that finally get you tokind of be like the F word?
I like that after everything I. Like the Maggie I don't have.
A problem at. All.
Whether you don't like or don't like is my point.
That would make me really sad. Actually.
That would be like, horrifyinglysad.

(01:16:45):
Tragedy and then Herschel is theone to remain as what too as a
result of this episode. He's not great because he let a
woman, an elderly woman dressed like Uncle Fester, Mind you, he.
Encouraged her to and. Now she looks like Uncle Fester
but with a jacked up haircut. Because that's one thing The
Walking Dead universe loves to do, is give a villain a bad

(01:17:09):
haircut. Are you calling?
Are you calling? What's his name?
Anderson with a bad haircut. Are you calling a villain?
Sam Anderson. He was the first villain in The
Walking Dead. Frankly, the governor, no, he's
the first one. The governor wasn't even a
villain. It was just.
Saying Jess is the real name like a.
A trend now or something Like isn't she just she's on trend
like? Embracing a trend?

(01:17:29):
I don't know, I'm thinking of I'm just thinking of Jadis and
her horrible haircut. And then I'm also thinking of
the stupid bird name person fromShe's Right of the Fear of The
Walking Dead who also had a horrible haircut.
I think it. Was that bad?
Sorry. Birthday person just killed me.
Excuse me while I laughed for 5 minutes.

(01:17:51):
You knew what I meant. In this world, if you have a bad
haircut, you're probably a bad guy to laugh.
I. Mean it's not working.
Only good guys have stylists. Well that's psychology though.
Is that when when you're the people that look nice are the
ones you're supposed to like most of the time, then other

(01:18:12):
times it's like they look too nice.
Then you don't trust it like NewBabylon Federation.
They're like clearly, why is his?
Beard so lined up. I don't like it.
It's always. Pudding.
Why is it sculpted the way it is?
Like that guy is Charles. You should have grown it out OK,
but I. Was looking at 1 scene with
Maggie and I'm like her hair is like perfectly styled even

(01:18:33):
though she hasn't slept in days and and she's been running
through well. It's because she didn't lay
down. It's gross.
I mean the. Perfect little waves going and
it's not tangled. Really.
I, it reminded me of like when Igo camping and I swim in lakes
and I don't actually shower likein a like a gross way.

(01:18:56):
And then all of a sudden my hairlooks the best.
It's. It's.
Like my curls are like coming through like really well and I'm
like, wow, I look great. Nice smell.
And to test this point, someone has to rock the crazy hair.
Let's take this in a completely different direction, though,
because I do want to talk more about the Croat.
We haven't really done too much of that.
And you really wanted to talk about his past because you get

(01:19:17):
you get it littered throughout this episode.
And I love how this dovetails really well to the idea of we
remember things differently. Because when he first talks
about his mother, when he's fixing the cog for the flywheel,
Maggie's flashlight, he praises her.
Even though you discover later that she left him at a very
early age, I know. And then searched for her almost
his entire life. And well, I mean for half his

(01:19:39):
life. Well, her entire life.
The rest of her? Life.
Well, the rest of her life. That's right, found her two days
after. She passed.
So tragic, my God. What payoff though first?
Plus, so you've you just got that story in the last episode
from him. You should come with me.
And I haven't seen my mother in so long.
Yes. And so like you're left thinking

(01:20:00):
like, oh, his mother must have been alive when he left Croatia.
And so you're left thinking it must just be killing him to not
know what happened to her and tobe stuck in that limbo of not
knowing. And that is a complete and utter
lie. So.
To this. Point.
If he drugged Maggie, I'm willing to believe it.
If he knows that the Dhamma is alive, I'm willing to believe it
because the man is a damn fine actor.

(01:20:24):
I'm not willing to go the latterfar.
I'm open to it. Obviously I I would like it.
It would be. Cool, but I it might not happen.
But let's start with the first part, because that's more
interesting to me. The first part of him saying to
me and that you could come with the kids, could come with to
kill me. Is that what he's saying?
Is that what he's saying to throw me off the building?
Well, you know, what's even moreinteresting about what she says

(01:20:47):
to Maggie afterwards is that he found it that way with the traps
and all. He didn't set the trap, first of
all, who did? Who cares?
That's fine, I don't. But I find it very interesting
that it's to say that he put himself, he went through the
gauntlet to put himself in danger, probably to.
Dave, this is what kills me about this.

(01:21:07):
The traps. OK, this like throwaway line.
I don't know who did it. Maybe we'll find out in the next
episode. But do you know what would be
better? If you had done webisodes or if
you had done a Tales of The Walking Dead episode about this
building? Do you know how cool that would
be for that to come back now andbe this throwaway line?
But you would know the whole time that all this crazy stuff

(01:21:28):
happened, it was the same thing that happened with the
webisodes. I cannot remember the name right
now. No, I do.
Torn apart. Nope, wrong one.
Because he did. It wrong one not the one, it's
the one where the guy is in the hospital and he ends up locking
up the doors and writing the don't dad open inside.
Sorry, it's the one where it shows Rick's origin story

(01:21:49):
basically. Well, not Rick's, I'm sorry.
Well, how he survived throughoutthe 28 to 28 days.
Kind of, kind of not really. No, because is 82 actually. 20,
not 20. Like dead in the water for fear.
I think somebody actually put the number 2.
They did the submarine story forfear on Dead in the water.
They told you the. Similar to that miniseries.
Yes, I don't. I mean like tying it after the

(01:22:11):
fact. I mean like if you had prepped.
To go alongside it would have been.
So cool if this had been released in between season 1 and
season 2, You. Can see that being a money issue
though. Back in the day, man, they had
so much money to spend on this stuff and, and they look, they
went. The webisodes came out after
season 1. They had like no money at that
they. Went hard and they got Frank
Darabont which is really expensive.

(01:22:31):
I keep seeing the way it was filmed earlier and holy crap
they spent so much money on different.
Shots of candles Nothing holds acandle to the early season.
Feels cheesy on retrospect though compared to what we're.
Watching some people react to for the first time in season 2
and it really just was such a great, great show those first
few seasons. Yeah, I don't disagree, by the

(01:22:52):
way. I'm just saying that now that
we've been all the way to the Gauntlet and then going back,
watching the first seasons, I just noticed how like, oh, man,
this is like a completely differently filmed show.
Yeah, to later season sports much more grounded and and less
filmy filmic like, oh we're in amovie every single episode for
some reason. I loved that though.

(01:23:13):
Yeah, no, I do too. It just, it just feels there's a
different vibe. It's a disconnect to somebody.
It's like, wow, did we watch this?
How did we? Anyway, whatever.
Moving on with the Crowat though, let's go back to that
feeling. So when he says his sneak in the
last episode, is it to say that because he's not going to see
his mother maybe seeing his grave, but it could be as
harmless as to visit her grave well.

(01:23:34):
He's got the ashes, Dave, right?Or OK, that too, no?
I'm not saying it's it's not herfull ashes because that was like
the smallest box, but. She was a very small woman.
Not really if you saw the photo.So many bones.
So many bones, Dave. She's also a lot of weight,
maybe, I don't know. No, you need so much more space.
I have. I have cremains at my house.
Let me tell you, it's cremains. It was really beautiful to have

(01:23:57):
him have these memories of his mother and tell this different
story. And then to see that the truth
is actually much sadder than that, because isn't that
everyone's story? History.
Yep. Negan talks about how like, Oh,
yeah, I LED these people and someone came in and took it all
over and ruined it for me. And people had a safe place to
go, but like, they didn't. And the women were mistreated

(01:24:19):
and brought into his harem. And before that, he wasn't a
great husband to his wife. He willingly admits these
things. It is the Rose, the Rose tinted
glasses, the Rose colored glasses.
In all of these situations, Maggie's.
Maggie's thinking back on her son and thinking like, oh, I
remember when he was cute and young and sweet and everything
was perfect, except it never wasperfect.
It was horrific. And you told people about the

(01:24:41):
horrible things you and your sonsaw on the road and it's never
been called. And the best you can say is that
I kept him safe, which is completely true, right?
But then at what cost? But it just, it was cool to see
this aspect of the Croat also. Now to be fair, Dave, you say
like he wants to die now. I think that has more to do with
the fact that he has been exiledfor a second time from the man

(01:25:05):
that he considers his. Brother, which echoes the story
with his mom. This is the is the only
remaining family he has and my protector and he says get out
and do not come back again for asecond time, which you and I
think you know, we talked about this.
Maybe it was to protect him somedegree.
Maybe he feels for the karate, he wants to protect him, so he's

(01:25:28):
willing to to do this. But the karate doesn't see it
that way right now because how would he the.
Irony, right? Instead of his mom leaving, he's
telling him to leave. Yeah, it's so hard.
We all agree though that when this whole journey with Maggie
is to get her to the point wherewhat was all this for?
And then get super mad like she was about to and toss him off

(01:25:50):
the the window like he wanted tooriginally.
Could be he was too coward like Maggie says, too cowardly to do
so, doesn't say a word because he wants her to do it.
He wants her to do it. What are we to take from that
entire scene though? You talk about the like probably
the two most tragic people on this show, the Croat and Maggie.
I mean, basically rehashing whatwe just said, I mean, inarguably

(01:26:11):
Maggie is the most tragic, but to see some the tragedy in the
Croat, do you think that snaps her out of it just a little bit
to hear his story and how nothing was really ever good,
but he chose to see it that way?And what is the Croat if not a
mirror for Herschel? How he chose to see his mom?
In the final analysis, the Croat.
Yeah, yeah. I don't know.

(01:26:32):
Is it because Maggie sees him like this?
So pathetic, like a lifeless worm, Like just and is she like
oh, this, this could be me that.Could be my son if I left him,
which is what she was. Doing throughout this entire
episode, she. Wanted to check out maybe that's
the end result if if I did that this guy.

(01:26:53):
I mean, not at all, but sure, it's not at all the same.
It's not at all the same, but I.Right.
But in her own tired state, she could see that maybe when she
sleeps a little bit, she'll see that it's not the case.
But. She's the one ready to check
out, and this is what it looks like.
If she does, that's what I'm saying, no, Yeah.
This is what it looks like to bethe person who wants to check
out. This is what you look like.
Sure. Right now is this guy who's

(01:27:14):
acting like a total teacher. Yeah.
And also suspension of disbeliefbecause holy moly, how did you
hold a full grown man out the window without falling?
No freaking weight and your handwas so gingerly on the door
frame or the window frame. No freak.
Is missing an ear. That's a big chunk of weight.
Also, he looks like soaking wet 120.

(01:27:35):
Yeah, they're both like, super itty bitty super.
She's probably stronger than this might be, honestly.
That's what got me to believe it, Like, OK, OK, I'll look back
to the episode. OK, Dave, suspend your disbelief
a little. Bit you were comparing the the
Croat and Herschel. His mother left and Herschel's
father left. Not voluntarily, but he did

(01:27:56):
leave. That's true, right?
Choosing to see somebody you didn't even know a certain way.
And maybe he's very confused about that.
And maybe he's always been very confused about that.
Maggie, is it what you chose to believe about my father and
that's what you're relaying to me?
Or what was he really like? And I could see him having that
skepticism. If I may skip ahead and then

(01:28:17):
maybe I'll go back. There's something I wanted to
read that I wrote down because it gets the heart of some
parallels. Parallel between Herschel and
the Croat. Miele brought Maggie to the
twisted Skybridge Tower so that she could do what he couldn't,
kill himself and reunite with his mother.
Technically, basically with everybody.
His wife and kids were brutally,savagely eaten.
Now, wait, there's more. Which he talks about dependency,

(01:28:39):
about his mother being a protector.
What he chose to see, the parallel between Herschel and
the crowd is not only the strongbond between he and his mother,
which is obviously between Herschel and Maggie.
Herschel can't deny that there is a strong bond between them.
He can't get away from her fast enough that he can't walk away
if she's in danger. We saw that in the last episode.
But that Herschel, too, needs the Dhamma to do what he can't

(01:29:01):
possibly do now. I write, kill his mother so that
he can be free of her, right? Because if that's his goal, he
gave his toe willingly. And the only way that he can
feel free to join the Dhamma is to make sure that Maggie's out
of the picture. And then what is that if not the
end scene, the end frame? Kidnapped in order to get Maggie

(01:29:21):
to bring Negan in. So if they explained that to
him, didn't he sacrifice his toeto get Negan there to die?
Well. At first, this is what we were
told when we first watched Season 1, but maybe, yeah, that
could be what Herschel was told.And as a bonus, the way.
It was said. It made it seem like was though.

(01:29:41):
It was like a sacrifice. And then of course, Herschel
sent back in exchange so that hewouldn't have to see Negan be
actually not killed. So maybe that was the entire
reason to get Herschel even moreon board is that the Dhamma
could do what Maggie her his. Own mother could not killing
Negan even worse because he sacrificed part of his body in

(01:30:02):
order to have to kill Negan basically, and when it was time
for that to happen, his mom couldn't do it.
Which explains Herschel's anger,probably not only at Maggie, but
maybe even at the Dhamma. Like, how is he still alive?
If I sat, if I eagerly gave my toe as part of this whole
package at a you would get rid of me again and B, he would show

(01:30:23):
me this new future. But do you think that hate
twists towards Maggie instead and Herschel puts it on Maggie
anyway? He already has that feeling with
Maggie because his whole life has been her putting his dad up
on this pedestal and blaming everything on Negan.
Like you guys talked about last week.
If Maggie doesn't have Negan to blame, then who is she going to

(01:30:44):
blame for stuff anymore? In Herschel's physical life, she
is blamed Negan and it's taken his mother away from him and now
when his mother had the chance to act on this thing that she
has talked about his entire life, when the time comes, she
can't do it. Well, what else has she told me
that isn't true? Was my dad really this awesome
person? Because she told me that her

(01:31:04):
biggest, you know, maybe not told me, but I have learned
through my entire life that her main goal in life is to kill
Negan for killing my dad. Well, what if?
What if everything else she's told me isn't true?
What if everything else I know is a lie?
Fair. Actually, I have two responses
to that. I hope you guys weigh in on
this. Is that also to say that
Herschel is the audience in a sense that may not like Maggie?

(01:31:27):
That when she, when they see Maggie just like Herschel does,
he's like just end her suffering.
She's stuck in the past. She's caught in the struggle
between do I kill Megan? Do I not kill Megan?
Is everything that fails becauseof Megan?
She's suffered long enough. She's The Walking Dead.
Maybe I could see that. I'm interested, but I'm not.
It's interesting, but I'm not interested.

(01:31:49):
I feel like coming from you wellread the chat for hot side
because I have another thing to say.
Tess said he do how to disarm those traps perfectly.
I think you can write that off with the fact that he we learned
in this episode that he's actually like an engineer.
He's got this engineering brain,which is so cool.
Which makes it even more impressive.
You see the flywheel, You see the traps.

(01:32:10):
Yeah, it's very, very cool. Possibly he could be a soon to
be Walker popping in. How much longer can you survive
without anyone fighting to protect him now?
And where is he going? And Maggie looked a bit
surprised when he said that it was for her and Herschel, not
them together. Adrenaline can be supernatural
strength sometimes. Which I could.

(01:32:32):
Yeah. It's like she was like lifting a
car off of her baby. But when it wears off, it is
super punishing. I've been there before.
It's like you got hit twice. Motez also said then see seeing
how at peace he was with the idea of dying and then said no,
I'm not giving you the satisfaction of that to the
crow. I'm not disagreeing, I'm just

(01:32:53):
saying that that's interesting because I, I don't know how I
feel about that. Yeah, it's weird because I can't
really kneel down. How Maggie feels about the
Croat, She hates the Donald, that much is made very obvious,
but it's almost like she doesn'tknow the craw ad enough to feel
one way or the other about him. Like she feels disgusted by him.
But that seems well, she knows he was the first person to steal

(01:33:13):
Hershel. Yeah, that's true.
Oh, that's true. Like that that dream sequence
where the camera goes upside down?
It seems like she dislikes him, but like she doesn't hate him in
the way that we've seen her hateother characters.
Especially after everything he said in this episode.
So that's the other thing. He's.
So pathetic. I think that has something to do
with it. She know that he was ironed by
Negan because that could automatically factor in to her

(01:33:34):
feelings of pity for him. Like you have been victimized by
Negan also in a physical way. I think you would put two and
two together if you met a guy who said he used to know Negan
and he had a giant burn on his face.
I think towards her feelings towards him, she could see him
more as a kindred spirit, someone who has been victimized

(01:33:55):
by. Victim.
And then victimized by the dama because she's running the whole
show in Manhattan. Which?
Gets him to see him in a different way.
Yeah, she seems more. Lenient on in this season than
she did the first season. The first season seemed like she
just really hated the whole situation with Negan.
Was only doing the dealing to get Herschel back.
That was really all it was. She didn't want anything to do

(01:34:15):
with these people. It's not like she wants anything
to do with them now. She wants to leave.
But she didn't have to save his life.
She could have let him die. Yeah, well, so let's this is
what I was going to say. Move backwards from the episode
when Emilie reaches out his handthe crow at and she takes it.
I don't know about why she savedhim, but I, I I'm going to throw
something out there. Question, is Maggie a good
person or does she remember as what being a good person is

(01:34:38):
like? Maybe considering what we spoke
about it just now, what did was she willing to do to get
Herschel back? Betrayed somebody's life for her
son. Well, right.
That was the big twist at the end of the season.
Yeah. And last season.
And that's not a great like abstractly that's not a good
thing. To do And what is that if not
just one? Overwhelmingly, I think that I

(01:34:59):
do believe Maggie is a good person.
I feel the same way about her asI do with Michonne in Season 10
of The Walking Dead. You're frustrated by her
isolationism, basically. Yeah.
Her isolation. That's Season 9, actually.
It's 9 and 10. More 9 than.
Ten yeah it's both yeah it happens mid 9 and then goes into

(01:35:20):
10 I'm. Not even going to clean that up.
It's it's 9 all the way through until the end, not ten.
Not ten. 10 she mid not midway, but over the halfway point.
She could go no under the halfway point.
She goes out to find Rick, essentially.
Yeah, that I know. I was just I.
I thought she, I thought she took.
Sorry, it's episode 10. I thought she took issue with

(01:35:41):
Aaron meeting with what's her name about the baby?
Yeah, I guess. I guess those, yeah, maybe those
isolationist feelings did, yeah.Anyway, it was less so.
Yeah, well, especially what happens after at the border with
the Pikes in Season 9. Yes, well, I that's.
That ends it. It's.
The same way I feel about Michelle during that time frame.
I'm frustrated by her. I'm frustrated by her inability

(01:36:05):
to take on new people. We liked Yumiko Magna, Connie
Luke's group and she didn't wantto take them on and she takes
them as far as taking them to hilltop And you think that she's
softening on the journey, but that she double S down on it
like halfway through and she's like, never mind, I'm going home
bye. And you're like, what is
happening? There's a lot of other stuff

(01:36:26):
going on that plays into it, butit it becomes frustrating.
You're like, I get you've been through a lot, but like just
loosen up, just loosen up. Let people in would be good for
everybody. The same thing happens with
Maggie. She becomes very stern in the
way that she believes things to be.
She took on a lot of the Savior's but is unwilling to
relent in a lot of other aspectswhen it comes to the Saviors.

(01:36:48):
And she wants them to do things on their own, but they're not
able to do it. And she's like, whatever they
tried and they failed, it's not my problem.
And so she becomes very stern and hard and cold during that
time. And it's hard to consider her a
good person during that time because you're like, that's not
what a good person would do. But the end of the world changes
your parameters for what a good person is.

(01:37:10):
So you're like a Maggie scanner when it comes to that?
At the beginning of season 2, when we first meet him where
he's like you're going to do it my way or, or you're leaving or
you took you're going to do it my way.
This is my leg, this is my barn.We're going to do what I say to
the point that we're catching walkers in the mud and putting

(01:37:31):
them in the barn. And what was that was in
response to was lost because he lost his wife and his son.
Like I said, I've just been rewatching it.
So I caught all these details because I've just been
rewatching it. Yeah.
That's great. That's great.
I love that. And what happens if you take
that to the extreme, and that's basically the Maggie that we're
kind of seeing now, is that on the one hand, it's my way or the

(01:37:52):
highway, but on the other hand, it's like this is not a life.
What's interesting about that isthat she lived that and she was
on the other side of it. She fought with her dad, she
begged, Remember, she was like, daddy just let him come in like
she, she was fighting on the other side of it to say you're
wrong, you're in the wrong for this.
And now she's on that other sideand we, the audience, are like,

(01:38:14):
you're in the wrong. Just ease up.
I will say. And it's so difficult to nail
her down so. She didn't understand the
feelings the way that Herschel did because Herschel was
protecting his kids in this family.
And now that she has a kid, she's like, well, I, you know, I
see what he was trying to do, you know, and what he felt like
he had to do to keep us all safe.

(01:38:36):
Exactly it's like all of us whenwe're kids, we think we know
better until we she was on the other floor and then we get we
get an education the hard way. There's one thing that I want to
hone in on from what I said earlier is what Herschel is
doing, trying to to get the Dhamma to do what he can't.
In a sense, he can't kill his mother.
It will. And I'm specifically saying he

(01:38:57):
wants to kill Maggie through theDhamma.
The Dhamma will do it for him. Seems that way.
OK, that's what I want to get a gauge on.
Now. Will it play?
That's how I feel. This is this is my natural path
to saying I don't think it's Negan.
I think it might be Maggie, if at all, that goes at the end of
the season or the beginning of the next, whatever they're going
to do. I don't think he wants.

(01:39:18):
To kill Twisty. I think he wants to recruit her.
I think he wants to get her to be with him under the Dhamma's
rule and see his side of things.I don't think he wants to kill
her. OK, OK, this would go to what
the Croat says earlier and giventheir conversation, it might go
differently than the way the Herschel thinks it's going to go
because the Croat says she sees pain and she knows how to repeat

(01:39:40):
it back. Like we the brainwashing thing
we talked about in earlier episodes, because of this whole
experience, we think it's for nothing.
Maybe this will do her some good.
Well, here's the thing, we thinkit's for nothing this whole
journey with Miley, but at the end of the day, it prepares her
for what she's about to encounter with Adama and she's a
little bit better equipped to actually deal with her now

(01:40:02):
because of that. It's not just a peek into the
Croat sore, which we I think we all kind of enjoyed.
Also, the Korat being the Korat not a bad thing I.
Loved it, I love him the. Little 1 liners.
I do worry that because of the character that the dama is, is
that she will require Herschel to essentially sacrifice his

(01:40:26):
mother to show his level of commitment to her and to letting
go of the past. I would say that's not the case
only because I feel like she would do it gladly to it for him
to show that he's on his. She's on his side.
So I'll protect you from your own mother who claims to
protect. Well, we lost Sharon.
DI can go either way is what I'mbasically saying.

(01:40:46):
I think either way is brilliant.Either way would be fine, I just
I don't like either way exactly.I'm interested.
When she it's interesting when I'm not interested.
When? When?
It's like the Buffy the Vampire.I say a thing, we both say it
wrong, and yet it's still fine. When she showed up to clock
Maggie, I was like, oh, come. Not like, I was just so

(01:41:10):
aggravated. Like I knew it was coming.
You hated her. I knew it was coming.
I knew it was coming. I had a feeling.
But here's my, here's my, here'smy one thing.
Dave, where'd you face? Where'd you get a whole burnt
box? She has a whole wardrobe full of
stuff she could just put on a burnt corpse of some kind.
I just had a bird. I just had this laying around to
throw all over this. So many millions of walkers in

(01:41:32):
the city. Just pick one lead them.
She remember she how she drew them into trick Herschel, I'm
your savior. They came into Saint Francis,
St. King Francis Theatre.
I'm so tired of Uncle Fester. I just want her to leave.
I get it, I get it. I am actually like the episode
or insider. I highly recommend you watching
because Lisa Emery does say things about her character,

(01:41:52):
which is first of all, Lisa Emery, it's great, but second of
all, it's kind of interesting. I want more Zelko Ivanek in
these episodes of Insiders and he never does them.
There was one more thing I thinkit has to do with checking out.
It would be better for everyone if I checked out Negan and
Maggie. That's the final analysis I
think I have in the They think this way and they express it in
different manners. I think Negan's preparing to go

(01:42:14):
for war and he's going to kill every last one of them.
Like we mentioned in a previous episode, referring back to
season 11, preparing for an assault on the Reapers,
pretending to be a whisperer, teaching Maggie how to do that,
and we're getting redux he. She says he showed mercy in
sparing everyone else at the expense of 1.
And that if he could go back, hewould do it the same way, except

(01:42:35):
this time he'd kill everybody. And now that he's seen Brugal up
close, I think he's making the right decision.
You. Know what?
That's what this episode was missing Brugal.
Well, we're going to get a Fistful of Brugal in next
episode. 4 Sure Honestly I need more brutal why don't?
You speed through the chat and I'll run through the thing.
Trauma bonding in a way of how they survived is in reference, I

(01:42:56):
think to 100% of Maggie and the crot.
There's a conflicted life moments that are hard places to
accept and then reliving them and going, oh crap.
It's going to be interesting howthis next episode is going to
keep us on edge for Season 3. And then she said.
Yeah, it is a nice chatting test.
I appreciate your input. You, you stumped me a couple
times. I got to say I'm very impressed.

(01:43:17):
And then we had to talk about itand then I still don't know
where I land. But folks, if you happen to like
what you heard, first of all, like this video, if there's a
place to like it, comment in this video.
If there's a place to comment, if you're watching, and if you
happen to be listening, head on over to
ratethispodcast.com/rocketed. Five stars and an eggplant is
all we need to know. That you love us.
Haven't even said emoji eggplantin a very long time.

(01:43:40):
Sure, and it needs to come back.But tell us what you like.
Tell us we didn't like. Tell us what you think we might
have missed. But remember to tell us after
every single episode. It really, really, really,
really helps. And if you really like what
we're doing, tip us at ko-fi.comSquawking dead When you do, you
get forever access to our Discord in 30 days.
Access to our free Squawk Insights and unedited episode
recordings for you to enjoy. If you happen to like us even

(01:44:01):
more than that, I highly encourage you to, for as little
as $4.00 a month, join a membership tier on either KO
dishfi.com/squawking Dead or patreon.com/walkingdead.
When you do, you'll get more access to our Discord.
Join the higher tiers like the Survivors, Whispers, and Great M
tier. You will get a free classic
T-shirt upon signing up. When you join the Survivors or
Great M tier, you will have the ability to join us in these

(01:44:23):
episode breakdowns with your face, head, mic, mouth alongside
us where we can tell you you're wrong.
You can tell us I'm wrong. Basically that's the way it's
going to go. I'm wrong all the time and but I
know that it's because you love us or me more specifically.
And if you haven't joined the great MTR, the greatest ish
tier, you are a junior producer and you'll have access to our
core channel. We discuss many behind the
scenes things. I just left a note about our

(01:44:45):
future plans after this season is completed and there are many
overhauls to be had and one of them is going to be the
membership tiers. Keep your eye out on those.
I prefer Kofi, but you take yourchoice.
Take your pick. Kofi or Patreon.
I highly recommend you at least follow so you can keep apprised
of those changes so that you know what's going to happen
next. But read the most recent post as

(01:45:07):
to what's going to be happening soon enough.
Take everybody. I've been your host, David
Cameo, and I was joined by Kosmoszier and I, Rachel Burt
earlier on. She left at 8:00, AKA Blasey
Gardner, who had a tremendously hard time staying alive, staying
live, and of course. And me, Bridget, you find me at
ko-fi.com/punky Brewster. That's PUNKYBRUISETER.

(01:45:27):
So meet us there over on the MCU's Bleeding Edge so you can
catch us again in just 10 minutes on their channel.
To everybody who have a good night, Dan, we'll see you in the
next one. Bye.
Test specifically mostly in Heather and then also other
people because I love you. How about that?
Hi guys, thank you so much for making it to the end of yet
another episode of Squawking Dead.

(01:45:49):
This one the 7th penultimate episode of The Walking Dead.
Dead Cities second season titledNovi Don Novi Poch attack which
means new day new beginning. I really really appreciate you
guys coming on as always loving on these episodes making it to
the end. Listening to this voice.
Obviously, this is how invested you are in the end credits

(01:46:13):
scene. And I was actually thinking
about something relating to thisdiscussion and it was something
that we'd said about making a decision before a decision is
made for you. This was obviously related to
Christos. And I feel like that's somewhat
of a Chekhov's gun because if Negan or Maggie makes a decision

(01:46:36):
too late as it pertains to either of their two concerns,
Negan when it comes to Annie andJoshua and Maggie in terms of
Herschel than a decision what made be made for them and could
they suffer the same fate as Christos?
It's just something I thought about as I was adding this
episode up. We now reached a portion of our

(01:46:58):
podcast where we think our GradeM survivors and whispers to your
members in that order. It's a little perk that they
receive when they join that specific membership tier,
starting with the Grade M tier we have at Real Ryan GM on X and
Instagram, skipping the survivors here and moving on to
the whispers, here we have the following two members at Skylar

(01:47:20):
Rose, PW on Instagram and X, as well as at Kim dot Rowley, the
number one on Facebook. I'm really psyched to see how
this all wraps up at the end of the day, and I really, really
can't wait to see how all the dots connect for all these
episodes. And I really do hope the picture
becomes a lot clearer by the endof all this.

(01:47:44):
I wouldn't. Well, I can see people who
wouldn't use the same naysayers that talk on all the other
podcasts that make me so annoyedand just get doesn't get
positive enough. And we they don't joke nearly
enough, but when they do joke, it's at someone's expense.
I've listened to one of them recently.
Anywho, I just want you to remember that in the meantime,

(01:48:08):
please please Please remember again that we are squawking
dead.

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