The Walking Dead: Dead City |SEASON 2 FINALE| If History Were a Conflagration

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Up, up. Up.
Careful, Careful, careful. Down.
Down. Easy.
Nicely. Fingers.
Watch your fingers. Watch your fingers.
Gentle. Good.
Well done. I just love it.
It's the best part. We are squawking dead, a podcast

(00:37):
pulverizing programs beyond The Walking Dead universe.
Sometimes we give you news. Sometimes we make you laugh.
Most times we go deep. I'm your host, David Cammy, and
I'm joined by. This guy, Cosmo mom, 09.
And Bridget, you can find me at youtube.com/ipunky Brewster.
That's PUNKYBRUISETER. And today, we're here to talk to
you about The Walking Dead Dead Cities season 2 finale titled If

(01:01):
History Were a Conflagration. What?
Does that even mean? Well, thank you.
It's a line in the episode. Just just to give you a little
bit background. Bridget had only just gotten
back from a conference thing over the weekend, before even
the weekend started. I think it was a Friday.
You were on your way. No, I went up on Thursday.
On Thursday. Yeah.

(01:22):
Furthering my point. And she only just got back late
last night so she only had time to watch the episode sometime
today. Actually literally just finished
it before we jumped on and Rachel herself only watched the
episode today. I don't know what her excuses.
I don't. I don't know actually.
I'm busy. First of all, Rob Lucasey, thank

(01:44):
for thank you for asking us or me when we were going live.
And he's obviously here on Facebook and we have a lot to
talk about for this episode. A little bit of housekeeping we
got just before or no, I think during the episode.
OK, let me back up a bit becausesomehow, somewhere, I think
Deadline basically found an unlisted promo teaser for The

(02:07):
Walking Dead Daryl Dixon Season 3 and released the premiere date
for it early based on that unreleased video.
Well. That feels illegal.
Well, I mean, my guess is that it's common practice for YouTube
channels to create playlists fordifferent types of videos.
So for example, if you have clips like promo clips, releases

(02:27):
and stuff like that, or full, full episodes, you'll have a
you'll put that in a specific playlist.
Now, if you somehow release the link to that playlist, well,
they'll be able to see the unlisted videos in that
playlist. If you happen to have the link.
It's kind of a thing. So I, I think that's how they
probably found it. So they just use the share link

(02:48):
and put it in deadline and that's, that's the end of the
story. So it happened to be right.
Actually, do you know what I mean?
Somebody screwed up somewhere along the line and they just
kept that playlist. So anyway, Deadline got it.
They were right, because on Sunday night, as this episode
aired, they released the date for The Walking Dead, Daryl
Dixon's third season premiere date, which was rabble.

(03:08):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but yeah, I think it's September 7th
on a Sunday, so that's going to be fun.
We're going to have a little summer vacation and come back to
this, I guess. Nothing over summer.
Well, that's going to be my second.
It's almost. July already.
Yeah, well, I mean, it's a long ways for us.
It's amazing because it's not like episodes upon episodes

(03:30):
every single week, you know, like 3, three series we're
covering in a week or something.Is that effect None of them with
screeners. So, you know, I mean, it's I'll
take what I can get. Jeez Louise.
Sharon D is in the audience as well because, well, frankly, we
just had we've just been having the bad, the worst string of
luck. Every single episode we've
recorded, even live has resultedin power outages for her because

(03:53):
of storms and such things. And that really sucks.
So she's on her phone since our power's out again.
And yeah, Rob says September 7this the premiere day for Welcome
to Daryl Dixon Season 3. Thanks, Rob.
Thank you Rob for confirming. I thought I had it right, but
you never know. I second guess myself all the
time, even though it sounds veryconfident.
Second bit of housekeeping is actually I was wondering whether

(04:15):
all of you had caught. Well, some of you aren't in our
discord, but I hope someday you will be.
I had put the link to a new series on sci-fi titled Revival.
There's a couple cameos from some folks on Letter Kenny, but
it stars Mrs. McMurray on LetterKenny.
She's the lead actor of the series.

(04:36):
She happens to actually also be on Star Trek Stranger Worlds.
She plays a kind of a side character that appears
occasionally. She's the girlfriend, quote UN
quote, of Captain Christopher Pike.
Anyway, she's great. I love the first the pilot
episode. It's basically kind of like a
reverse zombie apocalypse seriesif where the dead basically come

(04:56):
back to life, not as the undead but as themselves.
It's basically the dead from a specific period of time, I think
2 weeks prior to the revival date or the revival time.
And there's like sort of a intertwined murder mystery genre
blending thing to it where we'retrying to solve certain murders
that happened in around that time.

(05:17):
There's a twist even at the end of the pilot.
And I was actually wondering whether you guys have watched it
1-2, if you are going to watch it, whether you would like us to
cover the series. It's available for free to
watch, at least in the US, as far as I know, on scifi.com,
which is syfi.com in full so far.
I think the first two episodes are up on their website, and I

(05:40):
meant to watch the second one. But of course we don't have time
for that. Nobody has time for anything
anymore. It's sad none of you guys have
watched it at all. Have to imagine.
Pay for sci-fi. You don't have to.
It's free to watch on their website, syf.com.
Yeah. Sorry, I was looking up.
I was like, that sounds really familiar because there was a
show that was very similar called Resurrection that was on

(06:01):
ABC back in 20. 14 So I am curious to know your thoughts
audience on that and I'm eager and hit.
Heather Jenks. Hey, Heather Jenks, what's up
girl? It's been a long time.
She's counting down to the DarylDixon.
No, until Sharon D comes to visit.
Oh, OK. Saint Augustine's.

(06:21):
Yeah, Sharon D's going down on her.
And I'm done, but I'm leaving. I have two bits of personal
news. If you're looking at my face on
the Youtubes and other things. I don't have a beard and
sometimes I do that. It's upsetting to everybody.
It's like you've already got thestubble in though, so.

(06:42):
Yeah, it's been a few days. It's.
Just like it never left us. This lighting makes it look like
a neckbeard a little bit though.There's like white hairs here,
so it looks like it's there's like just I don't like it
anyway. Lighting is just not flattering.
Rob says that he's really excited for September to
December because we get Daryl season 3 and we get Fallout
season 2, so it sounds like. Fallout, we're going.

(07:04):
That's exciting. Very busy.
I think Fallout 2 it doesn't. Fallout season 2 I forget.
Does it start on Christmas Day? I don't know, but the problem is
all the episodes come out of once.
Yeah, that's true. It's like we get screeners but.
Yeah, do you get screeners? But not at all.
Except everybody gets screeners,right?

(07:25):
It's like, well, we have to democratize the Screener so
everybody gets them all at all at once.
Not ahead of time, but everybodygets them all at once.
Screw you. Squawking dead, basically.
Oh my God. It's like.
Anyway, the last bit of personalhousekeeping is that I've
stopped vaping, which I have to say the first few days were the

(07:47):
worst because I was swearing at everything and everybody, sure,
and I warned people in advance cravings are still there.
But if I happen to swear on thispodcast, I think I would like it
for you guys to forgive me and give me a pass and I would
really, really appreciate it. I feel really bad already.
Maybe we should just allow swearing for this one episode.

(08:10):
I don't want to do that, no. You guys have to be on your best
behavior. I don't want to do that, but
thanks for the offer. I'm I'm interested.
It's interesting, but I'm not interested.
I Why do I always get that wrong?
I don't. I don't know.
I don't know. 'Cause you didn't see the scene
on Love on the Spectrum, 'cause it was, it was so good.
It was so good, it was sublime, was perfect.

(08:32):
Is that good? Wow.
It was, Yeah. Well, here's the thing.
I don't have Netflix, so I haven't watched Love on the
Spectrum, but I watch all the clips on TikTok because I love
it. Wow.
I see. I love that we're quoting Milli
Vanilli. Does it blame it on the vape?
Yeah, on the rape. Well then, was it Milli Vanilli

(08:53):
though? If it, if it.
Wasn't it? Wasn't actually Milli Vanilli?
Right, so let's talk about this episode and we will start with
the title, which I prepped Rachel for in in just being
honest, because it's a it's a doozy.
Well, I don't know what that word means and I didn't want to
look it up so. That's why you went.
That's the title. Yeah, If History Were a
Conflagration is the title of the episode.

(09:15):
I thought you were just like throwing that question out.
You're like, I'm going to start with this question and use a big
giant word that nobody knows andthat everyone in the world had
to Google after hearing Mr. Pierce say it, except David,
because David does everything. But.
Did you Google that word or did you know what it means?

(09:35):
I know what it means. They know what it means.
I'm David. They know everything.
OK, Dave, we get it. You're smart.
We get it. Did I make?
I said it very simply. I'm like, yes, I do know what it
means, but now I want to know what you think, what that means.
How does that relate to the episode Smart Ass?
I don't have enough context to know what it means, Dave.
I can't use context clues to figure it out.

(09:57):
You want to hear the? Funniest thing you told me and I
told I forgot. OK, it's funnier because before
she's like oh I bet you know theword, but you know what this
means. So you told me earlier and yet I
forgot what? You just.
Said I forgot what you said like30.

(10:18):
That was, that was. Like you're not making the bar
very high for me 40. 5 minutes ago.
Not even 20. Nope.
Try again. No, it was before. 45 minutes.
Ago I got on. OK, let's just let's let me tell
you what conflagration means. Let me give you the context of
the whole line. The line is said by Benjamin
Pierce on the rooftop with Pepe Elena.

(10:40):
Pepe Elena is a stunt actor, acro performer or et cetera.
Incredible. She did walk her work on the
show, blah blah. And she later says because he's
a big old effing pussy, he starts saying if history were a
conflagration, these cannons would be the embers.
And she stops them right there. She goes, You're just here
because you're a big coward, essentially.

(11:02):
And so he's basically saying these cannons because the
Barazi, because the New Babylon Federation were coming to their
shores initially, and Negan and everybody else, the Croat shot
them down. And that was these cannons were
the start of the conflagration. The conflagration is a huge
devastating fire. And if history were a
conflagration, these cannons would be the initial salvo that

(11:24):
started the fire. And what is history if not?
We didn't start the fire I. Was going to say it sounds like
it. Was always we're talking.
About like an elaborate way of going to Billy Joel.
Yeah. Singing.
We didn't start the fire of history, basically.
I thought Bridget would find that interesting.
If history were a confrontation,she says, Negan killing Glenn
would have been the spark. And that's kind of what we were

(11:45):
getting to. But Rachel, in terms of that
probably dovetailing of what Sharon D just said, how does the
title relate to this episode? Is Benjamin Pierce right, first
of all? I would say from his
perspective, that makes sense. I can see why he thinks that,
and since he's the one writing the history books, that's how it
will go down. But I don't personally think

(12:07):
those cannons were the the startof, I don't know whatever we're
calling what happened after thatbecause the catalyst happened
way before that. The whole reason they were
coming to the island in the 1st place was for the methane.
So to me, I feel like the creation of the methane is what
got everything all started. And then who created the
methane? I mean, you could keep going

(12:29):
back. That is a never ending trail of
well, if this didn't happen thenthis wouldn't have happened and
then but then if this didn't happen, this never would have
happened. And if no one.
Would ever just. Start then, yeah.
We didn't start the fire. Exactly.
It was always burning, since theworld was.
Turning. So it's just a matter of who
puts it out. Doesn't matter who started it,

(12:51):
matters who puts it out. Rob Lucasi says imagine that
episode ended with Billy Joel playing us out, Charity said.
Though truthfully, the attack onthe substation would really be
the embers. She's talking about the savior
of satellite station. She's talking about the
satellite station. There was a reason they did
that. Yes, they hit there was and it
goes back even further than thatbecause this roots to the Croat

(13:12):
and Negan. The reason that Negan even ends
up on that freaking island is because of the Croat and the
Croat is before any of our context or time with Negan.
So it goes back further than we even know or could like
understand, because then we don't know what happened to the
Croat before that. Truthfully 100%.
And did it start with his mom leaving him?

(13:34):
Or you could just go further andfurther back.
But that's a whole point is thatthat's how history always is.
You can always root it back to something else to say.
That's the point of it, I would argue.
Well, yeah, And you could even go, let's just even go with,
well, then you could say it was the zombie apocalypse.
But really, what's it, though? Negan cheating on Lucille with

(13:54):
Janice beforehand and forcing himself to take care of her
before or sort of during the apocalypse and then throughout
as long as he could. There's that.
And then that tragedy carries over into what he does in the
apocalypse. But he's only one piece.
But he's a he's a quite the piece.
Though he's only one piece of this puzzle though, because if
you're talking about the Croat, we don't know his entire

(14:15):
timeline. We also don't know the Dama's
entire timeline. Like, there's too many people at
play here. How did it all really start?
Because the Dama and the Croat meet each other, and the Croat
says, oh, I know this guy. And then it goes from there.
He knew the guy because he was with the guy.
And how did he meet the guy? And why did he meet the guy?
And why did he choose to stay with him?
It's like it keeps going furtherand further and further back and

(14:37):
you can't pinpoint the start. That's the point.
Yeah, and we're all responsible for now.
Despite our histories, despite where things started or how
things started. Yeah, we're responsible for our
now. Well, yeah, because otherwise
you could be like, well, I wouldnever have murdered someone had
I never been born. So really, that's on my mom and
dad. Like, that's stupid.
You have. To limit your responsibility.

(14:58):
Then you get to blame your grandparents for having your
parents. Exactly, just have to take
responsibility for your actions.Yeah.
Well, and then if history were aconflagration, because that's
that statement in itself is actually kind of fun.
If history were a devastating fire, he's not saying that.
If now is the conflagration, like this is the result of

(15:19):
history, this mess, He's saying history was the conflagration.
Everything that led to now was. And then we've gotten to this
point and everything's cleared out to get us to where we are
today. It's almost as though he's
saying none of that mattered, that yeah, I'm glad that
everything was cleared away. Nothing.
None of the history actually matters, right?
Which is also the theme I think is really ending with two in a

(15:41):
way. The end of history.
The end of the episode, Dave, this little weird speech that we
give that's extremely disappointing.
All right, I do have to say one thing.
I think about small little cameo.
I feel like Bridget should be here for it.
But when Bruegel arrives to the church or Saint Patrick's
Cathedral, and the organ player is playing the music as he's

(16:03):
walking in, did you recognize the song at all?
No, I mean you only watch it once.
Right. I did, yeah.
Nothing came to mind immediately.
No. OK, so it's like it sounds like
Bon Jovi's always. OK, I do love that song.

(16:28):
I do love that song. Yeah, it's so it sounds exactly
like that. And like, what is that?
If not, I'd be there for you always, even though it might
hurt me or I might be injured and whatever.
And you know, obviously didn't make it to Negan, didn't make it
to Jenny. He sent Annie and Joshua away.
There's there's a bunch like Maggie is meant to kill Negan,

(16:53):
doesn't do it, comes back to Herschel, he goes, I guess it
wasn't always there for you. So I thought that was kind of
funny also playing the song as though it was some sort of
Oregon church piece, but it really isn't.
Maybe it was. Did your caption tell you what
song it was? No, it just said Oregon music.
OK, maybe it wasn't actually a song then.

(17:14):
It's just like hitting keys. Technically it's like a one and
a fourth. So I mean, it could be organ
music, like in the style of organ music.
It just feels like it matches Bon Jovi pretty well.
When you hear it again, just sing the sing the lyrics.
You think I'm going to watch this again?
I watched it three times, thoughI got to say, since we had so
much time between the time it aired and the time we came on to

(17:36):
actually record this. I did not.
Yeah, you just like watch it now.
Why is that though? You just had no zero time.
Zero time. Sharon he says that's what I
love about history, seeing how all the puzzle pieces fit
together to get us to the present.
We've talked about that too, like how if Alicia didn't do
this then not that wouldn't havehappened and we wouldn't have
that like in Fear The Walking Dead or something that effect

(17:56):
yeah Rob stuff and things says one of my coolest one of the
coolest. That's in TWD though about
Bruegel and Sharon D says legit Bruegel's history was a
conflagration. That's pretty funny, Ted says.
It was interesting seeing the the past situations in so
emotional, having to relive so many moments and then no matter
how hard they try to kill each other, they have to work

(18:17):
together to survive. I 100% agree because there's
many parts of the fandom that also when they look at this
series because it's tough. It's like the kitsch about it is
putting the two most unlikely tocooperate people together to
make them cooperate. And that's great because we want
people to kind of forgive each other.

(18:38):
We want people to work together who wouldn't work together.
It's part of our nature. We can only watch people destroy
each other for so long before you're like, OK, do something
interesting. Not now.
Kiss charity. Then, of course, there's
tension. There's history, if history were
a conflagration. And even we start to hear of
Pearly Armstrong's history too. Like how, by the way, that was

(18:59):
the first thing I thought of when I watched this this
episode. When we get to the end, we find
out that Ginny passes. They couldn't save her.
Even the the ventilator couldn'tsave her.
The intubation. I kept thinking about what
Pearly said in the first episode.
We could bring back things like medicine was the thing, the
first thing, medicine, technology, lighting, heating,
cooling. That's all I could think of.

(19:21):
And so when he was there, he wastrying to protect her.
When Bruegel came in, he's like,I didn't want this to happen,
didn't want my cooperation with Bruegel to produce this and
Negan and for his first thought upon getting being stabbed
running to Ginny's cell, he quit.
He stopped seeing Red, ran to Ginny's cell.
And Maggie, of course, is going after Negan getting finishing
him off. Is it worth having this happen

(19:43):
because they screw them screwingaround.
Maybe they could have saved her.Is my thought on that scene is
like I was so busy seeing red. I was so busy doing this.
I was so busy getting the methane Perly Maggie was so busy
getting Negan that we're screwing around.
We didn't check on Ginny. I think it was more a statement
on if you don't stop worrying about all of this stuff that

(20:04):
doesn't actually matter and spend time with those you love,
you're going to lose them in themeantime.
And that's what happened with Jenny.
It's also what's happening with Annie and Joshua is he's so
worried about all this other stuff that he's telling them to
go away and he's losing that valuable time with them because
they could be dead tomorrow because now you live in the
apocalypse. So what?

(20:24):
What Bruegel says is so accurate.
We got so complacent, let's say in the past we said, hey, screw
it, chaos, you know, let's bringthe zombie apocalypse around.
Let's let's bring the ultimate chaos into fruition.
We got bored, so we wanted to cause hell and here we got it.
And Brugal's happy as a pig in OOP, but everybody else is kind
of like a tragedy porn. That attitude spills over to the

(20:47):
other people. And maybe it's because of
Brugal. Maybe it's because of the dama
who happens to literally be the same person as Brugal.
I don't think she gives a rat's ass about the future and
building a new future. She doesn't believe in any of
that. She's all ego.
It's the Titan, Cronus eating Zeus.
It's all ego. It's all about me.
I think she's OK with creating afuture, but she wants it to be

(21:09):
her legacy. Like she was the one who put
Herschel in place and she's the one who will find him to protect
her. And she's the one who will be
the patron, like a patron St. oflike this whole new world.
So that when they go to talk about it and tell the stories
like her name is first. So I agree with you, it's ego,
but I think it's a a little bit different.
Well, I only see that because ofwhat she's she's like, Maggie's

(21:30):
trying to cut herself loose and and she goes, stop it right now,
stop it. She's like, no.
And she's like, stop it. I'll get Hershel.
In a sense. She's like, and I'm thinking to
myself, it's not about Hershel. And then the way she disappears
and reappears from certain scenes, like when things get too
hot, I mean, isn't it all about her ego?

(21:51):
She'd be willing to sacrifice Hershel.
She even says, I'm using Hershel.
I don't need him, I'd like him. Well, she'll find somebody else
to do the same thing. Well, that's what I'm saying.
Or another. Excuse too, is what I'm
thinking. Like it?
Doesn't have to be building a new future, as long as I could
put my stamp on it, whatever. She just wants a legacy.
Her legacy is lost to to the fact that the world changed.

(22:13):
Now her legacy is lost. Nobody knows who she is.
She was the critic and she lost all of that.
So it's just a desperate clamor to to regain the reign of being
something. Oh my God.
And yeah, I thought about this while I was writing notes.
I was thinking to myself, just like Maggie lives in her regret
or, I don't know, like this, this struggle, this loop that
the Dhamma describes. The Dhamma is also living in the

(22:36):
very newspaper I imagine is the one who panned her, the New York
Times building. We're all living in our regret.
Essentially, Negan is surroundedby Maggie or is rescued by the
very person who he doesn't want to be reminded of anymore, and
then get stabbed by him eventually.
How satisfying was that, Rachel?I don't know.
Maybe it wasn't being stabbed, Idon't know, maybe for some

(22:59):
people. Sure.
For some people. I don't know if that's the word
I would use. I don't know.
When she stabbed him, I was like, I don't think I like that.
Like, I'm obviously not the biggest Negan fan.
I love Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Ilike seeing him on screen, so I
would want the character to continue just for that reason.

(23:21):
I don't know. I wasn't really worried that he
was going to die. Maybe like a split second
because I thought she had stabbed him in the front.
And then when I realized she gothim in the back, I was like.
Oh, I see what you're doing, thepositioning of them.
Yeah, it looked like, well, it looked like she.
She came up behind him and I thought she took the knight.

(23:42):
I thought she brought the knife around and like stabbed him in
the front, his front. Why is it so funny?
Did I say something funny and I missed it?
Because if you look at that scene, I feel like I have to
rewind and unwind that scene. It looks like there's like he's
like a reach around. There's like a.
OK. Yes, thank.

(24:08):
You. You're in my head now.
We're just like, he's an effing toddler.
He's an effing toddler. Anyway, once I really, she
stabbed him in the back, I was like, Oh no, he's fine.
I don't know what you want to call it.
I got a little excited when theywere finally standing at Jenny's
cell and Maggie pulled out that second knife and handed it to

(24:31):
Negan. And I was like, oh, that's dumb
because he's going to put Jenny down and then turn around and
slice your throat. I would, but then he didn't.
Yeah, it's kind of made sense that it.
Was very disappointing. He should have killed Maggie.
What reason would he have to she?
Just tried to kill him. I think part of the reason why

(24:52):
it makes sense that he wouldn't is that he basically says it in
the last episode. God, why are why do you give me
all these second chances? I'm not really worth it.
The reason why he was so sad about Lucille was that he chose
trying to save her, being the savior instead of doing what she
actually wanted, which is stick around and just for her final
moments, it's what she actually wanted.

(25:14):
And he couldn't do either. And that carried through.
So it's like he he's not really concerned about his own fate or
his own ego or the fact that, oh, you killed me, now I'm going
to kill you. Not especially not with Maggie.
He feels that's. What I was hoping for.
Oh, OK, little projection, I seewhat you're saying.
And then he didn't, and I was like, oh, OK, now we're all

(25:37):
friends again, OK. Yeah, yeah, there's a little
little comforting Pat. So at the end when he puts her
down. No, the Jenny scene was sweet,
but everything after that? Did you get Sophia vibes from
that scene too? There was a little bit of that
going on. Did you see that coming?
Compare. The two don't compare the two.
Yeah, here's. Why?
Here's what I'll say about this,Dave.

(25:57):
I did not see it coming, but they did not give me enough of
that character for me to care at.
All I said the same about Sophiathough too.
Oh, see, Sophia I cared about because like, it was a really
long build up. You were waiting, you thought
they were looking for her. Daryl was having all this
character development, deciding that he wanted to be part of the
group and Harry's weight. Development too.

(26:20):
There was all of this other stuff going on that had the buy
in level really high for the viewer.
Like you were like they have to find this girl.
If they don't find this girl is going to break everybody.
I'm not saying it's the same. I just want to tell you I'm not
saying it's the same. I have.
I understand what you're saying when you say that it's not the
same, but it's also the same. No.

(26:40):
No, it's similar I. Mean, if you're like, yeah, it's
a girl and she also died, then yeah.
No, she was carried throughout two seasons and you had reasons
to care about her. No, but I didn't.
Though, Dave. OK, I that's a whole of the
story. Yeah.
It's like the ingredients. Like, it's not like, no, please
don't do that. It's not like I'm
misinterpreting the way I'm. Not saying that.

(27:01):
I'm not saying that. It's not like I want to break it
down start to finish because first of all, OK, why didn't we,
is the question really. I'm actually with you.
Yeah, the writing wasn't there. I mean one she would show up and
then disappear for long periods of time, she would maybe be in
the background but had no dialogue in the 1st.
Season and she they were threatening to not give her any

(27:24):
dialogue in this season because it makes it that makes sense for
her character. I get it.
Which is fine but we've had other people who were like non
verbal and still meant more thanthis to us.
Think of like Scott like in Walking Dead right?
People were like looking for Scott constantly who didn't even
have lines. Scott was also like a less is
more character I. Was like Hope Scott's OK.

(27:44):
So like that's you know, that it's like you could have done it
depending on how it was written.But the way that she was written
was to be this foil. It's it's like there wasn't
enough development. Like that's always what it was,
is that she was like Negan's soft spot and that's all she
was. Well no, she had her own revenge
story which wasn't fleshed out as well it should have been and

(28:06):
we were confused when she would get pissy with Maggie.
If they had done like even like the beginning of an episode,
like a flashback to the night that Negan like killed her dad
or anything like that to give just like a little bit more
drama and a little more buy intothe viewer to be able to see
like, oh I get it. This almost felt like a cheap

(28:28):
vibe for emotion. Well, yeah, but to even fix that
up a little bit, I would. You don't even have to use a
flashbacks. I know that they hate using
flashbacks because it's like I really, really have to do it.
But you could even just. The thing about Ginny is she
didn't like anybody that we liked hypothetically, because I
know that you don't like Maggie Rachel, but she didn't like any

(28:51):
of the characters that we like. There were moments where if she
had had some sort of companionship with Herschel,
even on the slightest level, that there is some sort of
understanding, yeah, then we could attach ourselves a little
bit more. But the fact that she didn't
like any of our characters and almost only one of our
characters liked her, which is Maggie, she was like, they like

(29:12):
you. You're OK.
You seem to be able to, you know, you didn't do anything
wrong. You're in a bad situation.
You're an orphan. Negan cared for you.
And then you found out he killedyour dad.
And that must be hard. And you hated her for it.
For some reason, Ginny, you hated Maggie for that.
I don't know why that part is upsetting.
And so all that's going on spanning a quite a few episodes

(29:37):
too, is this attitude towards Maggie that still I don't
understand. By the way, I don't really.
Get it either because it's like it almost seems like you.
Hate others, you hate yourself. Well, it's almost like, is she
mad because you got Negan taken by the Croat or are you mad
because now you don't have the opportunity for revenge because
he got taken? Neither are super strong.

(29:59):
Because she's the last of her family.
Well, I understand that, but from the viewpoint that we are
given one, this should have beena giant reveal.
It wasn't. It was like Oh yeah okay that
makes sense he killed your dad like it they mentioned it too
early or something Like had theywaited till the very last
episode of the first season, maybe it would have been more
impactful. I don't Maybe they did it still

(30:19):
didn't hit then they. Did it was like they just
finished killing the rat king and went topside.
I think this is how it went down.
Maggie can't talk. There's like fireworks going
off, some some crazy stuff like that.
Oh, yeah. And happened to kill your dead.
She couldn't. Negan couldn't lie to her.
Is is basically the the end of that story?

(30:41):
It could would have made more sense had he not been the good
guy in that situation. Like he he's trying to be honest
with her. He's coming clean about
something when he doesn't have to.
When Lead Negan doesn't lie either.
Yeah. And so it's like you could have
done this where like Negan avoided telling her or avoided a
conversation about it. And Maggie, She was the one that
told her. And then I could see her being

(31:01):
mad at Maggie because Maggie's the one who told her.
Why didn't she tell her sooner? It could have made a little more
sense that way. It's just, you know, you can
even excuse all of that if not for the fact that she hated
everybody and everybody kind of hated her except for Maggie.
It made her not likable. So that when she I mean, I did
feel it when that hand and that sound in my ears as she's a

(31:22):
Walker that. Is like all these three people.
Protected her. Yeah, I I didn't feel like, oh,
that sucks. I felt like, Oh my God.
I was like, oh, I was literally I said this out loud, like, Oh
my God. And that's a double sided coin.
Because on the one hand, yeah, that, that does suck.
That is sad. But on the on the other hand,
I'm kind of like articulating what you said or just earlier,

(31:44):
Oh my God, why would you do this?
Well, my other thought was you. Can have two thoughts.
Yeah, so the moment he put her on a ventilator was like for me,
I was like, Oh, well, this isn'tgoing to end well.
That's like holding in a fart for me man.
A ventilator as as as helpful asthey are in saving people's
lives. Don't get me wrong, they also

(32:04):
weaken your lungs by having it in right because your body isn't
doing the labored breathing anymore and so now it's being
done for you by a machine. So your body isn't working,
which theoretically gives it time to heal.
But if you're not strong enough when they take it out or you're
not strong enough period, it'll end up killing you and it should
be a very last ditch effort. And maybe that's how she.

(32:26):
Was which it was a last ditch effort thing.
He couldn't find the medicine and so this is what he gave her.
Well, that could be how she diedis what I'm saying.
Is it because like, what if she could start breathing again and
they were too busy doing all thethings?
No, I don't think that's what happened.
I think she just came to her illness.
That being that she didn't bother to tell anyone that she

(32:48):
even stabbed by a rusty nail andthen also didn't bother to clean
it until it was also already severely infected.
Which basic hygiene should really be super well taught in
the apocalypse because. But again.
Otherwise you're going to die. And I'm surprised, I think,
Wayne, we've kind of touch us onthis here and there, like how
we're surprised that this doesn't happen more often.

(33:10):
And that's the thing that takes you out.
And we, we have, we've talked about this.
Yeah, I mean, it would happen super frequently, I don't think
as often as dead people eating you would maybe depending on how
many dead people eating you there are around, but.
Well, you've even said somethingas simple as Typhoid, and I
think that was during Fallout, wasn't it?
The shelters I think it was I brought.

(33:31):
It up a lot because you really shouldn't be around a bunch of
dead bodies. That's really bad for you and.
Then then again, I say this again and it takes me back to
what Pearly said and which makeshim right.
Well, medicine. Having the methane gives you the
power so that you can manufacture medicine.
I don't know if it's a highlight.
I appreciated the call back to Negan's lineup.

(33:55):
You know, brought back the eeniemeenie miney mole.
It was interesting. Is that the word I'm not.
Interested. Well, it was interesting to
watch Maggie's reaction to it. I was blessed I was having my
own personal. Reaction.
It was some really great acting in that moment.

(34:17):
Non verbal acting too. It was.
I kind of had the same reaction.Obviously not the same, but.
I imagine it was pretty difficult for Maggie to to see
and hear all of that going on. And, and I know that it was
because it was hard for me to watch.
Took me right back to a place that was not fun for me.
That's fascinating. And I'm sorry to hear that.

(34:39):
I say fascinating because it's this little clue into why you
hate Maggie so much. Because it's it's hard when
thing, when emotions are close, when you feel a similar motion
to somebody else. Like, no, your pain isn't bigger
than mine. No, I don't know, maybe.
No, I don't. I don't think it has anything to
do with that. Or like close to home too.
Like how somebody's reaction canmake you feel like this is too

(35:00):
much to handle. Like I'm watching me on the
screen and I hate it. OK.
Does that make sense? Are you saying I like, see
myself in Maggie? No.
Not exactly, but like like you see a piece of yourself in
someone else and it it hits too close to home and you're like, I
don't like this. I don't like watching this.

(35:21):
I don't like watching a mirror of me.
It's kind of like not liking hearing your own voice when when
you record or. Because I've most of what I
don't like about Maggie is her general reaction to things.
Too real or too frustrating? I mean, frustrating for me.
I just don't like. I don't.
She's very angry, see that, But that's not me.

(35:43):
I think I'm a very rational person and I think about things
sometimes too hard before actingor doing something.
And she just like flies off the handle and I don't know.
I don't know. You're asking me why I don't
like her. I don't.
I just I don't like her. I don't like.
Her why you didn't like? Her well, we somehow got on that
topic. I just don't I don't like her

(36:03):
not a Maggie, not not a Maggie fan.
There are other characters that I like watching on screen and
Maggie is just not one of them. Lauren Cohens fantastic plays
the part well. I just don't like Maggie, that's
all. Sharon, he said Negan is going
to survive a kidney stab just fine, just like the Dahmer
survived being burned all aroundher breath hole.
But has no residual breathing problems.

(36:25):
I take issue with you saying that, Charity, you want to be
walking around with an oxygen tank, you're going to be mad
about that too, OK? You were mad about it when it
happened on fear of The Walking tank, so you don't want that
either. This bitch with her oxygen tank.
Just saying you also don't want that.
She could have been struggling to breathe, though.

(36:46):
No, I would have liked some morescarring on her face or
something. Her face, her only the only
injury she had was, oh, her hair.
Like half of her hair was. Oh, my hair.
Burned off. That was the other reason why I
thought it's not about the feature she wants to build or
whatever or, and that it's basically her ego is how you,
you as the audience can see through what she's doing with

(37:08):
Maggie and and Herschel's visionneeds a protector.
And I thought it was Negan. You know what?
For the sake of not yourself. Not not for the the sake of my
sake. No, definitely not Herschel.
For this Herschel sake. And is the vision in his future.
And even for you, it's a bonus for you.
You take care of take care of me.

(37:28):
Do you just kill me again? Not for me, of course.
Not for me, of course for you. Because he stomped on your
little rat, your little ego, your little pet project, your
well rat and crow rat. Negan took away quite a few of
her toys, basically even the methane as a toy, as a means to
her future, I mean. And of course she wants him

(37:50):
gone, otherwise she'd let it go.Who cares?
Build your future. What does that have to do with
Negan? But no for for your sake,
Maggie. No, for come on, which OK, my
reaction is an indicator that I like this part of this episode.
I like that. I like that I could see through
that and and that it worked too.I'd said the episode beforehand

(38:12):
that the Croat was a prepper forMaggie on how to perceive the
Dhamma, that because of this episode, which now is
effectively is wasted. Like I think, I don't know.
I mean the end changes things a little because she does spare
Negan, doesn't end up killing Megan because it may be her time
with a Croat, but the whole point was the Croat is basically

(38:32):
instructing her don't fall for the Dhamma.
The Dhamma sees pain and uses itagainst you essentially.
And it worked ish basically all the way through except near the
end we're counted. She held the bat over her head
about to pound Negan's brains out and they also the Jenny and
it was sad for them. Rachel, are you turning into a

(38:53):
pumpkin? I.
Think so. Do you want to leave us with
something? Well, I really wanted to
commiserate about the ending with Bridget.
So I want to go through it again.
The dialogue was a little. Heavy.
Horrible, right? I mean what?
I didn't hate that one specific part, I just, but there was
something I hated about it. It was so.

(39:14):
Heady. It's like not what I wanted.
It was tell. Don't show.
It was irritating. Oh, most definitely 100%.
But it was also like, so kumbayahand holding, like summer camp
bull crap. It was summer.
Yeah, seriously. My question is, is there no
season 3 because. There is a season 3.

(39:36):
OK, because this seemed like a forced sudden ending.
Like a mid season finale. No like our show was cancelled
and I need to wrap this up tightnow.
I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying.
Is what this is what it felt like to?
Me because it. There could be a lot more wrap
up though. Well, they did like the clips of
like both seasons and so it justfelt like it felt like a wrap

(39:58):
up. I don't know.
It was a. It was weird.
That's why I said it felt more like, I mean I see, I see your
point, but that's why I said it feels more like a mid season
finale to the final season. Well, and the fact that no
Babylon actually infiltrated theisland makes this entire season,
like, pointless. I wouldn't say that, but I would

(40:19):
say, well, OK, we lost a lot. Everybody lost a lot.
Which again, where's the crow at?
I know where the crow at is. The reason why I love the show
is the crow at. For real, where is he?
We just don't get to see him again.
Why did Burgle die? Honestly, why?
OK, OK, It wasn't. Had to go.
It wasn't the worst of New York City, by the way.

(40:40):
He is. But the dama's still alive, so.
They're the same character. Burgle.
I'd rather burgle than dama, personally.
Oh yeah. Well, yeah.
It's like the Negan effect. We love Negan, but we don't love
Negan. We hate Negan, but we love that
he's still there. Bruegel, essentially.
Yeah. Like Bruegel's awful like.
It's like the campiness of it I appreciate.

(41:02):
It he's utter and clout, but like at least he's entertaining
to watch or it's the dama he. Was just walking around just
like Uncle Fester for some reason.
Also, but she's way too serious and that's not fun.
It's hard. You're asking people to sit
through and, and maybe that's fine for if you like villains
being villains. I mean, I do a little, but I'm a

(41:25):
bad guy now. But this was This isn't what I
wanted. But you knew that, like you knew
that Bruegel would most likely be gone this episode.
OK, so here's the thing I didn'tlike about it because I was
like. There's so much more potential.
No, no, no, because we have the scene.
We have the scene where like, excellent trickery on Negan's
part. Loved that.

(41:45):
Honestly, if we're talking abouta bright spot of the episode,
the fact that there's the red herring with the food being
poisoned because he's told that story this season.
So you're like, Oh yeah, it's totally poison.
And then it's not. And there's walkers under those
giant tables, which was incredible.
Also kind of unbelievable. But I didn't care because I
loved it so much. And also the pews are covered in

(42:07):
some sort of. Accelerant.
Yeah, it was exciting. It was like, oh, this is cool.
So then when that happens, I'm like, oh, great, Bruegel's going
to die. Lame.
Like, go figure. Every episode someone just dies.
Then he doesn't. So I was like, yes, they're
finally going with someone can be strong enough to last through
a fight. And then they.

(42:27):
Immediately ruined it right after and it's like, well, you
couldn't just let like that was so good.
It would have been so much better for him to survive and I
don't care. Kill him off in the first
episode of season 3, but let himlive for a little bit.
Otherwise it's like, oh everyonethat comes up against Negan is
going to die, they'll never win.I guess I see what you're

(42:47):
saying. It's not fun.
You know what? Compared to all the other people
that never win. Oh, you need to go well.
Was that was that our conversation on the end?
No, no, I need to read it. I know I we jump topics real
quick there. OK, all right, so where do we go
from here? Is what is stated.
Pearly walks. He starts going into the Riddle

(43:08):
that was told to him by Roxana. Walking through the woods, a man
comes to a fork in his path. To go left is to go home, his
past. To go right is to go out into
the unknown, his future. He knows his past.
It's comforting, but will it be like he remembers?
And his future is full of possibilities, but what if he
gets lost? Which way does he go?
He goes left, is what Pearly says, back home to the way

(43:31):
things were. But all that's waiting for him
is an old story that hurts too much to remember.
So he goes right, but there's nothing there for him either.
Because what's the future without the past?
What's an ending without that old story?
That's Negan's part. It is.
Let's stop here, let's take a break, OK, Because So what do
you think of that so far that seems reasonable, right?
There's. There's the Riddle, right where

(43:52):
you're left wondering, do you go?
Left or right? Do you go?
Yeah, do you go back home or do you look towards the future?
Do you want more of the same or do you want to plays a new
trail, which is fine. I when it was told originally I
was like, this is really cerebral for some reason and
like why are we going here? Because this is like so much
thought but fine. Not this part.

(44:14):
That's why I wanted to stop here.
This part I'm totally comfortable with.
That makes sense. Everything.
You know, you've stayed too longin the past.
You never progressed. Yeah.
Also, it's not like it was. We've talked about that
extensively. Essentially Pearly's like he
goes left. I would go back to the norm.
I think he's illustrating the past.
I don't think he's saying I would go left.
I think he's saying, let's say you go left and this is the

(44:36):
result. Say you go right.
To the way things were right. And then Negan cuts in with.
But all that's waiting for him is an old story that hurts too
much to remember, which is clearly a reference to the fact
that he's had a really brutal past.
And then also it's to illustratethat Maggie has also had a
really horrible past. Like her story really truly is

(44:57):
too hard to remember. It like hurts too much.
All three. Think about it, Negan is
literally bringing his past back, replicated the lineup with
Brugal and Pearly like he is bringing that back.
It's the same old story. Literally the same old story.
Season 1 Pearly Armstrong goes back to the past as well about
his brother and how the apocalypse literally erased it

(45:18):
until he was confronted with it again on Dead City.
Yeah, and he was forced to confront it and that was the
very thing that maybe started his evolution into thinking
about. Well, this whole apocalypse is
bigger than just New Babylon. This is a hell in hell with
other people means confronting your past and seeing who you are
as a result. Here we are.
But also you can't just jump into the future because Maggie

(45:39):
tried doing that. That was this was the highlight
for me, at least this part whereshe says some to the effect of.
Well, hold on, I haven't gotten there yet.
You talking? About Sorry, it's right here.
So the other part we haven't gotten to is so he goes right,
but there's nothing there for him either.
So like the future doesn't have anything either, because what is
the future if you don't have thepast to a form to you are and

(45:59):
formed your perspective on things.
What's an ending without that old story?
And then it goes to Maggie. The truth is there is only one
way forward, one way to move on.We got to work through what was
to get to what will be. It's a path that's hard and
rough, all uphill. We keep thinking we'll never
make it. Sometimes we see where we're

(46:20):
headed. We catch a glimpse of the
mountaintop. It's so beautiful it takes our
breath away. But then we lose our footing.
We tumble backwards, right back to the bottom so that it feels
like we'll never get up again. But we do to help each other up,
and the path becomes much clearer now.
We move on together and we get there.
To me, this was saying like all three of us are going together

(46:43):
to forge a new path. Like that's what this seems
like. Like we're together.
We are going to work through thepains of our past.
Because now Maggie has officially lost every single
person she's ever loved. Because we have the same story.
Basically, we all have the same story.
He's lost every single person hehas loved.
Also now some of it is he forcedit like he made it happen.
He made bad decisions. He made bad decisions but also

(47:04):
on top of that he literally justsent his wife and son away.
I. Think he did it again?
Yeah. And then Pearly has lost
everything because like what youhave Negan now, can you go back
to with New Babylon knowing whatthey do to the communities that
they take over? Can you go back knowing that
they're people in power or zealots?
Like can you go back knowing anyof what you know now?

(47:27):
Can you go back after revisitingyour past with your brother and
and pretending that never happened and now coming?
Back to your life now. He was OK with that after season
1, but he was he was all in. He likes all seeds, though.
He like, took the, you know. Well, that's true.
David planted a seed. Yeah.
When you see that in the beginning of this season, sort
of a little bit like. Yeah.

(47:47):
And I'm, I'm OK. I'm OK with the like we're
forging to forward together. I'm OK with that part.
That part isn't even interestingto me.
That last part, like obviously they're going to join together
and figure this out together. I'm just like, OK, we'll.
Do this over and over again. Stupid.
Like what is the point now? Like are you trying, are we
still trying to get Herschel? Is this still a thing that's
getting Herschel back or so? There's a couple of things, like

(48:10):
first of all, the first thing that is said or is mentioned in
response to this is OK, there's the methane, there's New
Babylon. What do we do after this?
Do we do anything about this? Is that what we do now?
Whatever we do, we do it together.
So there's that. Do you see Benjamin Pierce near
the methane too, as New Babylon comes in?
Yeah, yeah. I could see this being like, and
now we're going to try to take down New Babylon, not because

(48:32):
they came in and took the methane.
That's what I was implying. Yeah, but because they're now
becoming like an out of control power that does not do the right
thing. And so it's like their version
of the ones who live. Which by the way, this is the
point I'm going to get to. Let me check in with Rachel
first before I get carried away.I think I got to go to bed.
I'm falling asleep. Yeah, Yeah.

(48:52):
If I saw you kind of starting tocheck out as we were going back
and forth. I didn't like the ending.
Was it because it left everything like, really
open-ended? I just thought it was like
disgustingly cheesy, cheesy, cheesy.
I got you. Biggest eye roll ever.
I mean, my eyes were rolling on the floor.
To be very hard, I did roll my eyes.

(49:14):
Yeah, I didn't have to hit it sohard.
It just I was so and then they like literally are like saying
it all together and I'm like. Does this remind me Just give?
Me the give me the ick. And Speaking of the ick, isn't
that what Sharon D was saying about the ones who live like we
can do anything we can? Yeah, does that.
Yeah, I can see it at that. Point we can.

(49:36):
Do anything as long as we're together.
And if and if. They're I was willing to buy a
little bit more because it's like, at least that was true
love. Like what is this?
You know what I mean? Like.
This is just something completely trouble.
Excuse me? On that, no good night you guys
feel? Like it could have just been no
troubling. Like they could have like high
fived at the end and like it froze.

(49:58):
Yeah, like a group jump. Froze there and I love what you
do for me in bed. And no, like they all high 5, it
freezes and then it's like we didn't start the fire and then
it plays. Billy, John.
And that's the end of the episode.
The. Ways you missed the part where I
said they played Bon Jovi on theorgan.

(50:19):
It was Bon Jovi's always Bridget.
Is there? I wasn't even paying attention.
It's not in the captions. But I had written it down like
That is always by Bon Jovi. David thinks that's what they're
playing now. I'm going to have to go back and
listen to at least just that scene.
I hope it thank you you. Said you expect me to listen to
that by now. She's going to.
I'll skip. Forward to that.
Scene is Bon Jovi. I wanted to do New Jersey's own

(50:41):
Bon Jovi. Jeez Louise.
Oh my gosh. All right.
Good night you guys all. Right, Rachel, love you.
Goodnight. Sleep well.
Don't let the bed bugs always. Oh my God.
Bye. I'm leaving.
I'm leaving too, Basically. Sure, Andy and Rob have a little
exchange about the fact that, like, just a scratch took out

(51:02):
Jenny. No, I get what you're saying.
I understand, I understand the sentiment.
But Maggie's knife was cleaner, I would argue, than a rusty
outside post that may or may nothave had Walker guts on it.
Did you see the the still image that I captured of what actually
went into her and? Wasn't a nail thing right it?

(51:23):
Was a big nail from a park benchwhich a first of all rusty over
17 years. Outside.
Supposed to be outside. Who knows what, but Walker guts
have been, they've been scrapingpast them and it kind of went
through her a little bit. It seems like as well, when you
actually look at the cut, it kind of starts one way and it
kind of goes out. It's directly in her back and it

(51:46):
kind of goes sideways because she has no choice.
So it took out a lot along the way.
Yeah. And then Charity said, well,
Rob's like, well, they don't have tetanus shots.
And Charity's like, well, Negan hasn't had a tetanus shot in a
long time, I'm sure. So.
Now he's going to also get tetanus and die, probably.
Tess had mentioned the love, hate, respect between Megan and

(52:08):
Negan is always shifting. And Sharon D did say that Jenny
was not a very fleshed out character.
Her whole purpose was to be Negan's surrogate.
Herschel. That perspective from another
angle, another mirror. As in another kid whose parent
he killed. Rob said basically she got
gangrene and then Tess said Jenny had multiple times in
which she lied saying that she wasn't injured hiding it when

(52:30):
that could have been prevented. So she was just hiding.
What she secretly wanted was to be free.
And I wish the Tess hadn't left.Because.
It was so good and I read it when she wrote it and I was
like, I want to come back to that going.
So I'm so sorry, Tess, if you'rewatching this later, I
apologize, but I really love that because OK, So what?

(52:52):
She secretly wants to be free? She wants to be free of the
feelings. She's about hate.
Basically. She doesn't want to hate him
anymore. She doesn't want to hold on to
the anger that her dad is dead. She doesn't want any of it.
And I thought that was just verybeautifully put test.
So thank you for that because itgave me a little more
perspective on this because sometimes I come in hot after
watching these episodes and I'm like, this wasn't good and I

(53:14):
don't like this and I don't likewhat I'm seeing.
And I'm like, I'm unhappy about it.
I'm glad she's dad, is what you were thinking right?
No, no, wasn't to that degree. Wasn't that degree.
You know, I don't really feel that way ever.
You know, I'm, I'm always like, yeah, I am.
But I am appreciative of people giving me a different
perspective because it does sometimes change the way that I

(53:37):
feel about some things. And so I'm really appreciative
of that perspective. Do you mind if I take that one
step further? I hate myself forever loving
this man who killed my father. Of course, yeah.
I want the love that I had for him to stop or him to stop,
which is basically the drama that gets repeated throughout

(53:58):
everybody, mostly Maggie. Rob, in effect, said it best,
which was I forgave Negan, but Ican't forgive myself for
forgiving Negan because that makes me feel bad.
Where does that leave my love for Glenn?
Or what I had with Glenn, which I actually had time to think
about a little bit further. And it's kind of like, I don't
think it's about that at all. It's literally how inconsistent

(54:21):
we are as people is that we say we forgive people and but then
when it comes to actually committing to it and actually
doing the forgetting or moving on, that's the essential bit of
it is the ability to move on as a whole separate matter.
That's the thing. So this is something I've been
working on with the kids at school because like we're really
quick to model for children thatlike saying I forgive you is

(54:42):
just like an immediate response to someone making you upset
because that's what we do. We want like we want to avoid
conflict. So as people were just like,
it's OK, I forgive you. If they could even come up to
muster saying they were sorry inthe 1st place to you.
Often times we're like, Yep, don't want to deal with the
conflict. It's fine.
I forgive you. But what I tell them is that if
you are going to forgive someone, then you can't bring it

(55:04):
up again because if you're really forgiving them, then
you're letting it go. And we're not talking about it
anymore. I'm not saying you have to
forget it, but because it can inform decisions you make in the
future. You know, like if your friend is
mean to you 100 times, then maybe don't play with them
anymore. But being able to truly forgive
is like, it's not a skill that'slike innate in us.

(55:25):
We harbor resentment towards people.
We hold grudges. We can't let things go.
And so forgiving doesn't mean I said I forgive you.
So it's over now, but I'm reallygoing to harbor a bunch of
resentment towards you this whole time.
Is not forgiveness. True forgiveness means you're
saying I forgive you and I'm going to not bring it up anymore

(55:46):
because otherwise if I bring it up, I haven't actually forgiven
you. I don't know.
Sometimes I'm like, are we even capable of true forgiveness as
humans? I think we have to because what
I was going to say to that is I think what's worse is when you
take an experience you have withsomebody, especially when you're
a child, this is where this commonly happens.
You take this experience, you had this with this one person

(56:06):
and you think, oh, everybody's like that.
Sure. Yeah, it's a you're modeling
future relationships. Oh, and if you want to take it a
little, just a little older thana middle school child, you can
take it to high school, maybe even college.
That experience that you had with that one girlfriend or
person you dated is you take that and model that we in the
next relationship. And they have to tell you, I'm

(56:28):
not her, he's not me or I'm not him.
And then you have to remind them.
And then we do that. But then we do that on a micro
level as well. We, we, we take the dealings we
have with people actually that we care about.
And, you know, if it's somebody I care about and they're,
they're treating me this way or we're treating each other this
way, well, then by default we'restrangers.
Of course we're going to treat each other that way anyway.

(56:50):
It's just something I thought ofwhile you were saying all that.
Speaking on forgiveness, Dave Rob did mention something.
He had a question for us, he said.
Do we think that Pearly will ever truly trust Negan at this
point because he did just try tokill him?
I don't know. I, I'm sure it's a really good
question, Rob. It's a really good question.

(57:11):
My initial instinct is to say yes, but then I But then I
remember the story about his brother and it took all that
time to pass for him to kind of learn.
To. Forgive, but you know, it's that
hindsight, so I don't know. Well, I think also the the thing
with his brother was that so much time has passed.

(57:32):
Hey, I don't even remember what that was all about.
I do as but like I never got a chance to go through those
feelings with him. It's almost as though he was
cheated. The satisfaction.
Correct. Because the apocalypse happened.
Maggie was cheated out of her revenge because Rick happened.
And and then cheated again due to her own conscious conscience

(57:54):
because of Ginny dying and Jennywas cheated out of her revenge
because she died before it couldhappen.
Or like a resolution to all this.
Yeah, feel these feelings that she had.
Naked has cheated himself out ofa worthy life at any and every
opportunity. You are your worst enemy.
I wonder if that's why I like him so much, because like, I

(58:15):
know I'm. I know I'm supposed to hate him
and I do like him for like the, the campiness of it all, right?
Like the, the cheesy 1 liners and, and, and the smile and the
fact that Jeffrey Dean Morgan isreally charismatic.
But I wonder if part of me feelslike I want to like him because
some aspects of that remind him of like, remind me of like my

(58:35):
dad or like other like, really flawed people that I've known in
my life that like have a lot of regret.
Like me. Maybe they have.
Maybe. Daughter yes.
Short answer, I'm so glad you asked this question because I
this is what it's trying to get to a little bit with Rachel when
I was asking about Maggie, is that sometimes when you see

(58:56):
yourself, let's say in others and you see how they're acting
to themselves and the things that they do or things that
happen to them, you're like, EW,that reminds me too much of me.
Don't like it hating others whenI hate myself.
But then you see Negan and it's like, but he does it in style.
I actually there's something that's not pathetic about it.

(59:18):
It makes me sad when people hateMaggie so much because we, and
we've talked about this before. I've talked about her, the
endless. You do feel a little bit of that
though the. Endless suffering.
I well, I get frustrated with how angry she gets so quickly.
She just has such, so many knee jerk reactions.
But Dave, do you know why I hatethat?
That is me. That's me, that is.
Me, that's what I'm saying like.Truly, that is me.

(59:39):
I I have a horrible temper. I often have a really knee jerk
reaction to things and it's not small.
It's always big and over the topwhen I have it.
I mean, I'm talking like I'm punching walls and I'm throwing
my phone. I'm like flipping tables.
Well, your moment was the whole thing with Glenn and the whole
eggs on the hat and the things like, that's how she's always
been, Dave. That's how she's always been.

(01:00:00):
She's been consistent. She's got this like stank on
her. And anyway, my thing was always
was OK, you take that and take that seasons ahead in the future
to Season 9. What is Maggie doing?
And this is a bit of growth. She is breaking a wild horse.
You know, you see that scene andit says a lot about her.
It's it shows that she's grown alittle bit.
She can lead now. She has a temperament of for

(01:00:21):
leadership, but she's still like, hey, you know, Fungul on
the F the saviors, who cares about them because, you know,
screw them. I'm not going to sacrifice even
the possibility of my Hilltop community falling just because
the Saviors can't hack it themselves.
That's not how this works. They shouldn't have to even

(01:00:42):
suffer quality of life even the slightest.
They should have the comfortablelife because we've we've made it
out here at the expense of people who just can't do it.
I'm sorry. So there's still that Maggie
anyway. So she's consistent at the very
least. She is, and I would, like I said
I she's always been that way. It's never not been that way.
But you said there's also Arrested Development too.

(01:01:02):
Yes, there is. And I have to say, like I also
think that some of those qualities that we find abrasive
qualify you for leadership. Sociopathy or whatnot.
You know, it's that ability to kind of like compartmentalize
and say, well, I can't save everyone.
I can save my people or I can save, you know what I mean?

(01:01:23):
Like it's just the ability to. Compartmentalize.
Yeah, yes, she's very pragmatic.And on top of that, it's like
she is able to make hard choicesbecause what hasn't been hard
for her for so many years, like it's just everything's been hard
for her is all been like a sloth.
Yes, truly. But often isn't that the case?

(01:01:44):
Well, wait, who are we talking about now?
Oh, I just being with anyone. I was talking about, OK, I
thought we were talking about you for a hot sake.
Oh well, like no, this is very applicable to me but like this
isn't the Bridget show so it's OK.
Sharon D laughed a lot at the fact that I said you would not
have liked an oxygen tank for the Dhamma and then she said I
hated the ending of it was so awful.

(01:02:05):
The ending was like Morgan over narrating the ending of one of
the season 8 episodes of Fear The Walking Dead.
But Rob said I loved the ending and I can't wait for Season 3.
Rob, it's like you are the spirit of the show.
You are I love. This show and that's that's the
whole reason why we started podcasting is Rob, just to get
to this point. If this hadn't happened, that

(01:02:27):
wouldn't happen. Bridget came on the show and now
we're here with Rob. So.
If it's rare conflagration it would me me.
I can't even say it. It's too far.
This. Is going so I I did roll my eyes
at the end of the episode. I did think it was a little bit
cheesy. I do stand by my statement that
a freeze frame high 5 would haveonly made it a better situation,

(01:02:51):
but. His only way out is true.
Yeah, Yeah. I'm not like, wow, this is the
worst thing I've ever watched because I've watched some really
bad stuff in my life. And so this is like, this was
fine. This was fine.
Did I love it? No.
Am I loving the insight you guysare providing me?
Absolutely. Yes.
Yeah. That's why we do this.

(01:03:11):
Can I add a little bit? I I didn't hate the ending
either. I can't actually articulate how
I felt. I didn't hate it at all.
I did think it was a little ham handed.
That last part was a little ham handed.
See, because this is a visual medium, right?
Because if you listen to the words alone, you're like, OK,
this is awful. Interspersed with those words
were scenes of the people left behind and where things are

(01:03:33):
going and what we have to work through and the people we whom
we have to deal with, which I liked, which was why I can't say
I hated it. I didn't hate it.
I mean, these things make sense.It's a visual medium.
There's music that started out in this in the beginning of the
episode too, by the way. There's the interspersed with a
bunch of people, Maggie going back to Negan and Ginny and all

(01:03:54):
that stuff. So that's why I didn't hate it
and I didn't actually, I kind of, I kind of liked it.
Some of the stuff was kind of like, OK, I know where this is
going. You don't even have to say it,
but you did. That's fine.
You did say it. You did say it.
Now let's go to what Maggie saysThis.
This could have been a much better sub in my opinion for
that entire bit of dialogue. Let me read what Rob said.

(01:04:15):
Rob just quickly. Sure, just before, because it's
just the sweetest thing. I just love it so much, Rob
says. As much as I've always loved all
of Walking Dead, I was passivelywatching through seasons 10 and
11. Finding you guys in this podcast
brought my love for the show back tenfold.
Rob, honestly, I'm going to cry maybe a little bit, because
that's the highest compliment that you could ever pay us,

(01:04:38):
honestly. So I give you all credit for
breathing life back into my lovefor this universe.
Rob, stop. I'm really going to cry.
Definitely listen to our coverage of Seasons 9 through
whatever we came in because we were seeing people hating in it,
on it. And from Season 8 onward, that's
when we started and we're like, we got to save this.
We got to do what we can and make it a love fest.

(01:05:01):
Yeah, and that's the only reason, honestly.
Yeah. Jeremy said thank you, Rob.
It was one of the things that was really thankful about
Squawking Dead because, like, I found Squawking Dead completely
by happenstance. Oh, Heather said she's going to
cry. I am so thankful that they
weren't so negative, that like, when I listened to an episode,
it wasn't all misery because I was listening to other Walking

(01:05:23):
Dead podcasts. And you know the ones, I'm not
going to name names, but you know who they are.
And all they've done is just layinto later seasons and laid into
fear of The Walking and. There's no reprieve to I just
listened to one recently. It was the, I'm going to say it
because nobody cares, but it wasJohn.
You know how Johnny Odell had that talk Dead to Me podcast and

(01:05:45):
yeah, yeah, it's last episode was the season finale or series
finale of The Walking Dead, and it was split into two parts.
And I think they did a great joband I highly recommend you
listen to it. And they had Alexis Scambatti,
who played Luke's girlfriend, who was, I can't remember who it
was. That's fine.
You know, Luke Abrams, who died also so interspersed with that
interview and that they did a great job.

(01:06:05):
In fact, like if they had done coverage like that throughout
their entire podcast, I would have been like, yeah, this is
great. This is kind of the level of
like, yeah, I'm gonna miss the show and maybe we'll say good
things about it. Yeah.
Like they started off like saying bad things and like I
think as they went they were like.
Oh, wait a second. Give us a give us a highlight of
your career, Johnny. And like, yeah, which is to say,

(01:06:26):
isn't that what we all want whenwe're nearing the end?
Don't we want to say all the things that we appreciate about
the thing? Which is kind of like why I
started this thing, which is kind of like, I actually love
this thing, and let me tell you how much I love this thing.
Let's go to show and tell. Baby Charity said it was Jules
and she's right. That's right.
That's right, Jules. She had a last name too and I
don't remember it off this happened.

(01:06:48):
Sometimes I can get bogged down by how frustrated I get, and
Charity brings it to a point by saying I like this show.
I just know that it could do better, and it's frustrating.
It's the same reason that I was upset by season 8 of Fear The
Walking Dead. It's not because I didn't like
it. It's not because I didn't want
to cover it. It's not because I didn't enjoy
the characters, it's because I felt like Walking Dead Universe

(01:07:10):
has a very smart audience and they wrote it as though we were
idiots, so it felt really disappointing.
You just think we're stupid. I could lay out all the reasons
why if You're The Walking Dead didn't hit the mark.
I'm not willing to say it was a bad show, but it didn't hit the
mark. I know what they were trying to
do. I know the road map they were
going, which I actually liked, Ilike on paper where they were,

(01:07:34):
what they were trying to do on paper sounded great.
And even execution to a degree, because there are some really
good whoppers even in Season 7 and even in Season 8, which are
really, really good. But it's kind of like, I'm not
going to get into it, but if youdon't have critical things in a
series, not just in an episode, but in a series like money, time

(01:07:56):
development, if you have to cut so many corners that it
sacrifices the craft if you listen to the audience, which is
always a bad thing, almost always a bad thing.
Almost literally. 99% of the time do not listen to the
audience. Then there you go anyway,
because sometimes listening to squawking dead right, because
we're the audience too produces good results.

(01:08:16):
And sometimes you see things they're like, hey, wait, I said
that in that season and they didit in this season anyway.
Just kidding. Well, Rob said he was listening
to just keep walking for a while, but it was just making
him so upset because they were only saying negative things.
I only recently listened to thatepisode.
And. I it was a few days ago.

(01:08:37):
I yeah, I just anyway, I'm really thankful that we try not
to do that. So I'm sorry if you ever tune
into an episode and you're like,wow, they're being absolute A
holes right now. It's never our intention.
I also don't want to just say it's good when it's not.
Do you know what I mean? Like, I also don't want to lie.
I don't want to blow smoke up your butt about it either.

(01:08:59):
I think what sets us apart is OK, what a lot of those podcasts
do, and you'll notice, like, I try not to make myself like the
bad guy, sorry Bridget, specifically because you're
here. But what they do a lot of the
times is, hey, we think it's bad.
These people think it's bad, so it's bad, right?
So it must be bad if everybody thinks it's bad.

(01:09:19):
Bridget, sometimes you've had totell me, but all these people
are saying that that it's a thing is bad.
Why aren't you thinking it's bad?
I'm like, I don't care what other people think.
And too much to your frustrationtoo, Richard, you're like,
sometimes why did he just lives in his own world?
He doesn't listen to us. Sometimes because sometimes I'm
like trying to layout like critically.
Why? Why something didn't work?

(01:09:41):
I do think critically sometimes.Say you're wrong either though.
I just say I see what you're saying.
Yeah, I just don't feel that way.
Sometimes I get frustrated because I'm like, just say just
be in my party. I'm.
Trying. I'm a passenger in my vehicle.
Sharon D said you can point out problems without hating the
show. If I didn't love it, I wouldn't
be so mad that it isn't as good as I think it should be, which

(01:10:04):
is fair. I'm going to air on the side of
I did not hate this episode. That's really where this came
from. I'm going to air on I didn't
hate it, I didn't love it. I'm OK with it.
I liked it. I wouldn't even go as far as
that. I'm like a step below, like now.
There were really cool moments, don't get me wrong.
The brutal. Things that upset me, I'll even
go that far, I think. It doesn't mean it doesn't
change how much I liked it. Yeah, like the Brugal death I

(01:10:26):
thought was beautifully done. I thought it was really cool.
I mean, I was sad it happened, but I really enjoyed the scene.
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.
Yeah, I hated that it happened, but I enjoyed.
The scene. Yeah, because even I felt it,
too. By the way, Bridget, I'm just
going to say that out loud. I'm sorry, but I can feel two
things at once. I can be like, I'm so glad he's
gone, but I'm like, no, no. One thing I do kind of like,
yeah, Sharon, I'm with you. I did not like that, Maggie.

(01:10:47):
Stagnant. I don't know why that bothered
me so much. Like really bothered me.
I loved it. I loved it and I'll I'll explain
why later. And then I really liked the
setup for this next season. I know we know absolutely
nothing's going to happen. Here's the one thing I do know.
Benjamin Pierce is going to be apart of it.
Kier Gilchrist. Absolutely has to be.

(01:11:09):
If he's not, I will. I don't know.
Well, you say that I. Know what I'll do and I'm like.
I you know what I call your KierGilchrist and raise you a Jelko
Evanik. Oh yeah, he better be back.
Kim Rowley. Kim is here.
Kim says that ending the ending was the worst and left me
scratching my head. Why?

(01:11:31):
Why? We just went through so much of
that twice over. By the way, I whispers to
remember Kim Rowley. Rob said it was.
That's why I love your show. You give constructive criticism
with genuine love for the material.
Yeah. And Rob, you are so sweet.
I'm like, I'm overwhelmed by your kindness, honestly.
Hi, Kim, we love you. I think more than the kindness,

(01:11:52):
it's like, you know what we're trying to say sometimes if we
can't even say it. Charity said it was.
It was so weak. She's like this ferocious
fighter and knife ninja, but shestabbed him like it was a rubber
chicken in her hand. I'm going to I disagree with you
here, but I'll explain why. Sharon, I let.
Me let me go to my thing and it'll lead to this thing.
OK OK OK. My highlight was the

(01:12:14):
conversation that she has with Herschel after she does the
stabbing. But we'll go back to the
stabbing OK She says we're wrong.
It's not how we said killing Negan would have only made it
worse and that's not how we're going to And then she he goes
don't and some a lot of people liked that.
Logan Kim, the fire with Maggie is whatever doesn't matter.

(01:12:35):
She and I'll get there together.This is the part I said you
could have used instead of that whole last bit about the
mountain top and we go through whatever, all that stuff.
I know what you're going through.
You think that you want to run, run off and be somebody
different. And in my brackets, I write,
this is it. This is the answer that we've
been waiting for all this time. She says it out loud.
And sometimes you need to do a tell, don't show.

(01:12:58):
And it is. Sometimes, yeah.
Like Maggie did when she left the group.
That's why she left the group. She wanted to become someone
else, not the widow. You want to hurt me back?
You want to hurt me? You want to hurt me back?
She's saying this to the audience, too.
You want to hurt me back, don't you?
For leaving the show, huh? Yeah, I get that.
I get that from both sides of the aisle.

(01:13:19):
I get the feeling of wanting to,but I also get the feeling of
making Maggie slash Lauren Cohenpay for that.
I get that too. How can you not?
She's trying her best and she's killing it.
And she and he goes right, right.
Because you got it all figured out.
Because you have to say it with that swear word, because I
didn't. But I'm into it because you did
something perfectly yourself. I was shocked by it actually.

(01:13:42):
Yeah, see, they're the audience.He's the audience.
He's the audience. But then he she says something
spectacular. And again, this is a reminder.
This is after he she stabs Nick and she goes, I got to do
something after they bring her to the studio apartment.
Whatever she goes, just know I'll always be there for you.
I won't leave the city. And this is something I knew I
felt like she was going to say, this is this.

(01:14:02):
I saw the writing on the wall from the first episode that this
season's going to end where Herschel may not be the Herschel
from the comic books, but at least the Herschel that is
trying to March to the beat of his own drum and his mom is
going to finally be actually an accompanying drummer.
I'm supporting you now. I held you back.

(01:14:23):
I was helicopter, mom. I protected you.
That's fair. You acknowledge that we did your
best, but you held me back, Mom.Now I'm here to support you.
I'll be here supporting you every step of the way.
I can take care of myself. You take care of yourself, you
know how to do it. I'll be watching you.
I'm not going away, I'll be watching you.
I knew that was going to happen.That could have been a much

(01:14:44):
better replacement for the dialogue at the end.
I know that they have to do it. It's very cinematic.
You flip back and forth between these characters that we love.
Except for the Croat. I don't like that.
But maybe they were doing that so we'd forget.
Fine. Or maybe he will never come
back, which is totally fine. That would be really sad, but
sure. He's in no episode or insider at
all, ever. OK, so Rob said what I was going

(01:15:06):
to say, which is she was willingto kill Negan for Herschel, but
her heart wasn't truly in it, soshe held back on using her full
force with the stab. You can see it in her facial
acting. There's like a look of
reluctance as she goes to do it.It's.
The stabbing part. Yeah.
I disagree, actually. Let's go back to that.

(01:15:28):
Let's go back to. That OK.
Let's go back to that, I think, after witnessing the lineup yet
again. Well that brought up some stuff
for sure. I think that's the only reason
she was able to carry through with this hair brain scheme in
the first place. Had he not been there doing the
eenie meenie miney Moe, I don't think she would have gone
through with it. And there's a mirroring too,

(01:15:48):
because what is Negan? Why is Negan so into it?
Why does he not stop when Pearlysays I was there to stop Bruegel
from hurting Ginny? Little did I know he's like,
maybe, but I'm so sick and tiredof maybes he was seeing.
The fans will know this. He was seeing red.
That's why he did what he did. He's like, I am so sick.

(01:16:09):
I'm going to kill all of them. I'm going to take them all out
and they'll on them leave. No one left.
And I have to because I have to protect my people, the Ginny.
I have to protect my people. I.
So she said. She's recreating the scenes of
the past like Lucille. Yeah, he said that on The
Walking Dead. He's reiterated in on this show,
like Walking Dead proper and theshow he's reiterated, given the
opportunity to go back in time, I would kill every single one of

(01:16:31):
you. So he's never going to make that
mistake again. And by the way, I should remind
the audience he sort of did thatin Season 8 of The Walking Dead,
dipping the weapons and the guts.
He's like, you know, and then hestomps on the walkie-talkie at
the end of the episode prior after he talks to Rick about
Carl's death. And he says, I'm going to kill
all of them, essentially. And I think he does this in the
comic books, too, if I remember when we were covering it as

(01:16:53):
well. He eventually resorts to that.
Yeah, he did. Yeah, he does say I'll kill.
It's very similar F bombs. Galore, Right?
Right. But yeah.
But let me go back to the actualstabbing part.
He's seeing red. He can't stop.
Until what? Until Maggie stops him.
Now Maggie's seeing red. She picks up the bat.
She's stalking Negan. Negan's already broken out of

(01:17:13):
it. Thank you, Maggie, for breaking
me out of seeing red. That's why he doesn't think
about killing her for stabbing him.
He's like, oh, I was seeing red yet again and I sent my family.
About in that moment as making it back to Jimmy.
Immediate. I love that part too.
I was like yes that makes sense.The very thing I was doing
everything for. Is she OK?
Oh my God I totally forgot abouther.

(01:17:34):
Cool. Maggie's seeing red now because
of everything she's witnessed. She saw him do the thing.
She was willing to kill Pearly. Well, you guys kind of got
along. Why are you trying to kill
Pearly? Is he?
Because he was part of that plan.
He's just lumped himself in there.
OK, let me put a stop to that. OK, let me put a stop to Negan
now. Because now the Dom is in her
head. Now she's seeing red.
Why not? Why can't she see red?

(01:17:56):
Maggie's also has a temper, and maybe that's why she hates him
so much too. Like, just like we were saying
all along. Oh yeah, and I never really
thought about. This some element of if I hadn't
been raised by Herschel Senior. Does he maybe?
How maybe how I would have been he did, but he was good.
Eventually, yeah, I was. Well, yeah, he was bad for a

(01:18:16):
time, but he was good. He raised her in church.
Like he tried to instill these like deep morals in her and I
think for the most part that worked for his family.
I mean, he was actively trying to repair damage that had
already been done. He did the work.
He did stop drinking the day shewas born, so she didn't ever
have to see that version of him.I was thinking though, even
having Glenn as a husband be that Herschel without any of

(01:18:38):
that prior history baggage and then growing together as a
result too. Yeah, but having that person
take away means she goes back tobeing spicy.
Spicy Maggie. For better or for worse, Spicy
Maggie. Well, Rob said that he thinks
that Lauren has paid for it withWhiskey Cavalier.
More like WTF am I right? That's how I've been waiting.

(01:19:03):
I've been waiting to say that it's so.
Much about you so bad. I do too.
Let's wrap this up. They take Negan back.
Negan says a thing. Let me just say this.
I was so busy looking out for her.
And then you go back tracks and goes, I was so busy thinking I
was looking out for her. I just missed it.
And now just likes Lucille. She died alone yet again.

(01:19:24):
Let me say, OK, I love it. That was great.
He's owning up to it. That's growth 100%.
Even after going and reliving this past, that isn't really the
past and it not working out well, working out in the
interim, but not working out forhim in the long term.
He admits it. That's cool.
Maggie, going back to the Dhammaslash Herschel having that

(01:19:45):
conversation. That was great.
I think they could have gone back to the studio apartment
next to the water, obviously, maybe I don't know where that
was. It's definitely Boston by the
way. I looked it up.
That made me so mad because it looks like Brooklyn Bridge Park,
which that would have been a great place if they went across
the water and went back to Brooklyn.
You're too expensive. It's not anyway so mad it.

(01:20:09):
Is. OK, if they would have gone back
and they would have had a simpleback and forth and not be this
over the top thing, they could have had a conversation and the
episode could have been longer. It was only 48 minutes.
I was. Shocked by how short it was.
So forget this montage scene. It could have actually looked in
each others faces and said something to this effect that

(01:20:29):
was a little bit more elaborate,a little bit more authentic, a
little bit more real, and you don't have to do cut scenes to
other. People, it wouldn't have been so
cheesy. So then I think maybe it would
have sat better. Exactly.
And they could have stopped it there and it could have been
short or whatever long, I don't know.
They would have replaced these scenes with that kind of
dialogue. Like where did we go wrong?
I was so busy doing this that this happened.

(01:20:50):
I can't let this happen again. *** would be like, I won't let
you let that happen again if you'll let me let you, you know,
like that could have been a goodlike, we just can't keep doing
this. We obviously have pieces of one
another in embedded in one another.
We have the same story repeating.
Interesting that now Pearly is also in this.
They are his cautionary tale. I could say I like that.

(01:21:12):
I like that. There's pieces of his, their
story in him already. Yeah, but and.
Also thinking you're fighting for the right side and it not
always being the right side. Yeah, I really like that, Dave.
That's good. Exactly.
Negan thought he was the good guy until he was the one to be
feared and we saw Pearly. Didn't he dispatch his partner
who was very annoying in the first season within the

(01:21:34):
laundromat, Right? He was very dispassionate about
it. Yes.
Oh well, excuse me, Sir. That guy sucked anyway.
He did, but but he wasn't that bad.
I remember he was like, he wasn't that bad, he was just a
little tiny bit annoying kind of.
Like annoying? Yeah.
Like not he was like annoying inthe way that like, don't you
know this is The Walking Dead and.

(01:21:54):
There's like always annoying people.
It's fine. Yeah, anyway, don't you get it?
Do you get it? Is it the dead or walking to get
it? Get it.
Anyway, this is what I was getting to Herschel.
Apologize for the Dama's initialrough treatment Again, what is
Herschel doing? Herschel is doing the same thing
that Dama did to him at first. It was the Croat roughing up
Herschel, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:22:15):
Hey. Beat him up a little bit.
There's a little. He's the second one to come in.
He's the dama in the scenario with Maggie.
He's brainwashing Maggie and it works.
It's the perfect scenario. It's so gross and I hate it.
He learns from the best. Goodnight, Rob.
Thank you. Got to put the baby to bed.
Dude, you could have disappeared, not said a word.
I would have been fine because you said all the nice things.

(01:22:36):
It was really pretty sweet. Thanks, Rob.
Seriously. A little extra Peck on the head
for me. From his uncle Dave.
From his uncle Davey. Yeah.
OK, so Maggie said gives gives her own version of Rick's
monologue. I had mentioned this briefly how
Rick goes. Did I mention it at all?
Rick has that monologue at the end of The Walking Dead.
I think of the dead all the timeand about the living who I lost.

(01:22:58):
I think about them every day. And then at the end is we're the
ones who live. I'm familiar.
OK, Maggie sort of gives the same speech.
It's more like I think about Negan all the time, what he did,
what I've lost. I know that I have to let it go,
but I can't seem to do it. I'm sorry.
It's similar. I think about the dead all the
time. I think about Negan all the

(01:23:19):
time. But everything I've lost, not
because of him, as a result of this natural disaster coming
into my life, is like it stirredeverything up.
It made me lose sight of what was important and made me lose
myself. Whose people lose myself?
Fear The Walking Dead? Oh no.
So he says. That first in The Walking Dead,
Dave, so it's fine. Yes, that's true.

(01:23:39):
And also you know what it is? You know what?
It is clear, yeah. Exactly.
So I love that there's a little bit of symmetry here, which
leads me to a bigger story and where I hope this universe goes
in the end in some form or fashion.
I wrote at the end of my notes Who is in the wind, Benjamin
Pierce, sort of. That's why I start slowly.

(01:24:01):
He's leading NBF to the methane fine.
The Croat in exclamation points because he leaves in the episode
prior to two episodes ago. The remaining tribes of New York
City, because there's still sometribes.
That Lady who yelled at Negan you did?
Like I forget it was a swear word or something.
Yeah, an idiot. I don't know what it was, but
that's in my head. That's what it you're.
Effing right. You're like, yeah, Mother effer

(01:24:23):
or something, I don't remember. What?
She did. Do they drop that?
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
And do they band together the rest of them?
Because it was only the Barazzi and Bruegel's crew that paid the
price. They're all gone.
Barazzi Bruegel's crew. Kristoff's crew.
Kristoff's crew. That's true.
And then there's all these othertribes.
Yeah, we don't know what happened to them.
Now, the last bit of the people in the wind is something that I

(01:24:46):
kind of mentioned near the beginning, but I kind of wanted
to bring it up again. Is Rick Grimes and Michonne the
leaders of New Babylon Federation?
Is that going to be the big bad at the end that this what this
was all leading to? Bro that would be insane.
Right. We do this because of good
reasons and now we finally can do we can do cars.
Virginia isn't it? New Babylon Federation is New

(01:25:09):
Jersey. Oh, it's New Jersey.
OK, then. I don't know.
It could be Babylon, NY, I don'tknow.
Maybe should? Be out of main island probably,
but that's the other way. Anyway, it doesn't matter.
That would be interesting. I.
Think it's New Jersey? Probably New Jersey.
We'll see, because again, this is the future.
It'll be like that idiot kid General Beal's son.
Oh, you know, we did not see what happened to me.

(01:25:31):
He's in the wind. He's in the wind.
Mason Beal's In the Wind. That's right.
Then also, what about Hal Cumson's character, who happens
to be in Nine Perfect Strangers,which I think I might have
mentioned? You know who else?
We don't know where he is. Silas, is it?
That's his name. Silas Plaskett.
ETH or you know what? I got it.
I got it. It's Tobias.
We're going to end this now. It's.

(01:25:52):
To buy he's leading to Babylon. I hate this.
I hate he's worse than the governor anyway.
He shows back up and you were so.
Indignant when I said that. He's like still eating like 10
cans of like fruit and stuff, but he's like super evil about

(01:26:16):
it. Right, exactly.
He goes crazy like a victor and his Peaches on from.
I mentioned this only because I feel like that's such a great
road map by the way. Best of intentions, but like
Rick becomes Negan in effect because I can do this in a more
organized fashion. Oh, sure, yeah.
And I say this only because whatwas the worst part about the
Saviors? Not necessarily Negan, but it

(01:26:38):
was his underlings and how everybody he had to be in
control of everything that was what led to his demise.
Remember when he went away with Father Gabriel in that assault
and almost everything turned to crap?
But with Rick there having a hierarchy, but it's the same
thing. The people underneath him,
Charlie, Bird, Nirvaez, all these little individual pieces

(01:26:59):
make for a just a crappy soup that no matter who you have in
charge, it'll just go to crap. Best of intent is the road to
hell, right? They do say that.
I think that's it now. I was going to open the show by
saying until nobody could hear me.
The following up, up, up, up. Careful, careful, careful.
Down, down. Easy.

(01:27:22):
Dicely Fingers. Watch your fingers.
Gentle. Good.
Well done. It's the best part.
It's what I'll miss most about him.
That's why I see your pain. I do see your pain.
But he had to go. He was starting to get annoying.
And you know what? Why not go out on a high note,
right? All the cool lines, little girl.

(01:27:43):
Don't be scared. It's me, girl pal.
And it's like, no, it's not yourold pal.
You're a creepy, creepy, talky talky man.
I that's what I love about him. But would you let him near any
girl of any kind, of any age? No.
Just me A. 100%. Only me.

(01:28:04):
Oh. He is Kim Coates after all.
And you have daddy issues. That I do laughing makes me
hurt. You are correct, Sir.
I've to pee so bad, Dave. Let's wrap this.
Up. OK, well, if you like what you
heard, well, first of all, like this video.
If it is a video, leave a comment.
If there's a place to place a comment, whether it be Spotify
video or a Spotify podcast or YouTube video or YouTube

(01:28:26):
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But if you really, really like us, you can leave us more
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Tell us what you didn't like. Tell us what you think we might
have missed. We probably missed a lot.
It's fine. It's not fine.

(01:28:48):
Tell us why it's not fine after every single episode.
And if you really like what we're doing, you could have
tipped us on the stream the entire time and had a message
come up saying how much you loved us.
So you have the drinks. I love you guys.
Thanks. See, there you go.
There's AQR code on the screen. If you're watching on the TV,
you could tip us on a tofi.com/walkingdead/tip and
your message would have been read out loud.
That's fine, you missed our opportunity.

(01:29:09):
It's my fault I didn't tell you it's OK, but you can do it after
this airs and we'd appreciate very much.
In return. You get forever access to our
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recordings as well as my pre Squawk Insights which has a lot
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Join a membership tier for as little as $4.00 a month.

(01:29:30):
At the Walkers tier you'll get more access to our discord.
Join the Whispers, Survivors or Great M tier.
You can get a free Cassic T-shirt, phone signing up as
well as several more perks. Join the Whispers in Great M
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(01:29:51):
channel where we talk about a lot of behind the scenes things.
Don't comment on it. It's fine.
We're going to move on. OK, please.
Please just stop. OK, you'll be a part of our
every little private conversation that we have about
development because you'll be a junior producer, and that is
just great. We love that for you and we love
that for us. I've been your host, David Cami,
and I was joined by Cosmos here,and I'm Rachel Burt, Sharon D in

(01:30:12):
the chat, AKA Blazy Gardner. And Bridget, you can find me at
ko-fi.com/punky Brewster, that'sPUNKYBRUISETER and I'm actually
doing things on there now, so. Yeah, tell them what you're
you're finishing up there's. Posts and everything.
There's posts, they're so cute, it's like she threw them in a

(01:30:33):
ChatGPT. Did you let me ChatGPT?
Some sometimes. But it's so cute.
It's it's. It's still authentically you,
but you're. Polish this for me.
I am working on making some digital content which is a
little bit new for me. I do it a lot for work so why
not monetize it? So I'm working on a horror movie

(01:30:55):
night like a printable kit and then also been working on some
bingo cards including Walking Dead bingo if you wanted to do a
watch party with friends. I'll do it for a lot of stuff
like Supernatural probably and Buffy and maybe From and some
other things. So keep an eye out.
That will all be available in myKofi shop as well as on.

(01:31:16):
Etsy. Really.
Etsy too. Yeah, I figure, well, I don't
know. We'll see.
We'll see what happens. We'll see how Kofi pans out
right? All you got to do is follow
Bridget IK odisha5.com/punky Brewster for free.
If you want, you can come again to join me live tomorrow night
at 7:00 PM Eastern Standard Timeat youtube.com/app Punky
Brewster for. Discuss the final episode.

(01:31:37):
The finale episode of 13 that was on the BBC and it it's been
a doozy so far, so I'm excited to see what happened to the last
episode. As a part of your limited series
Lounge Series. Yeah, I like to say it like.
Program. Limited series lounge.
I have to pee, so that's not going to happen.
Yeah, let's let's go pee. Not together but away from each

(01:31:59):
other, but like at the same time.
One you go to the other, contrary to what you might
understand from our conversation, listen, as much as
it didn't hit the mark in many, in some ways this episode, this
season 2 finale, it actually does get me psyched.
This is why I said it feels likea mid season finale.
It gets me psyched for what's tocome because having a tabula

(01:32:20):
rasa with which to actually do that means you can go anywhere
and you could bring in people that you might have forgotten
about. And also now we have to wait
until September for more WalkingDead content.
So AKA walking to Daryl Dixon. But don't wait long.
Check out Revival on scifi.com, syfi.com, all the episodes are
available on that website. Check it out.

(01:32:40):
If you think we should do it, let us know in the comments.
Let us know anywhere you can letus know, especially on our
Discord. I would like to cover it.
I think it's a great show, Bridget.
I think it's way up your alley. So up your alley.
I'll try to watch it this weekend.
This will give us enough time todo some other cool things in
between then and now, especiallywith our website, especially
with the blog and especially with our website merch store.

(01:33:02):
It's gonna be great. I'll talk to you guys soon.
Bridget SP. Bye everybody.
I gotta go. I love you too.
Thank you so very much for making it to the end of yet
another episode of Squawking Dead.
This one, the season 2 finale ofThe Walking Dead Dead City,
titled If History Were a conflagration, which we went
through extensively at the beginning of this episode, what

(01:33:24):
that means or might mean even, and definitely what the
definition of the word means. I again want to wholeheartedly
thank you for not only listeningto this episode, but likely the
majority of you listening to allour episode discussions of The
Walking Dead, Dead City, not just even this season, but last
season, which I highly recommendyou catch if you haven't caught

(01:33:46):
it. We had a couple of Survivor tier
members in tow for that season and I thought it was
particularly funny as I listenedto one of those episodes
recently and it was kind of funny making Takira AKA at
Connie Dixon the number 4 lyfe. Laugh for a very long time
during that episode and you'll understand the reference of when

(01:34:09):
we debate whether Luther had a cheese grater or a lemon zester
because it was kind of a funny conversation.
In any case, you've reached the portion of this podcast, the end
part, where we shout out our Great M Survivors and Whispers
tier members, in that order. It's a little perk they receive
for supporting what we do as a podcast.

(01:34:30):
It's our only source of revenue.It helps us pay the bills.
It keeps us going. Just barely.
Starting with the Great M tier, the greatest ish tier we have at
real Ryan GM on Instagram and X skipping the survivors here
because there are no members in that tier.
We'll move on to the whispers here, which contains the
following two members at Skylar rose PW on Instagram and X as

(01:34:53):
well as at Kim dot Rowley, the number one on Facebook, whom
popped on to the stream at some point and said the same thing
that many of our hosts said about this episode near
specifically regarding the end. Just reminding you again to
comment on this podcast episode wherever you're listening to it
from regarding the series revival on scifi.com, it's

(01:35:14):
syfy.com. Kept saying syfi.com for some
reason. It's actually specifically
syfy.com/revival. You can watch all episodes on
their website for free. Apparently it's streamable on
Peacock if you do have that streaming service, and I'm sure
it's available on video on demand if you have a cable
service or if you're watching onsome sort of YouTube TV

(01:35:37):
streaming replacement for television.
It's pretty much free and clear for now until September, we're
in The Walking Dead, Daryl DixonSeason 3 comes back, so if you
guys happen to like the first 3 episodes of Revival, we will
definitely cover it. I think it's pretty interesting.
It's lighter but still has some meat on the bones in terms of a
murder mystery, reverse zombie apocalypse story that takes

(01:36:00):
place I think in Alaska if I'm not mistaken, with some actors
from Letterkenny, mainly the lead actor and a couple of
cameos. Better.
Super super funny by the way. And a couple of Easter eggs in
reference to the League characters role on Star Trek
Strange New Worlds, which I hopeyou catch.
And that's basically it folks. I look forward to speaking to

(01:36:22):
you and with you soon. And in the meantime, we'll miss
you, but just remember that we are squawking dead.

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