16: From 20-Year Art Hiatus to Creative Success with Steven Light aka SLART

What if the key to reigniting your creativity wasn't just talent, but embracing fear, experimentation, and community?

Steven Light, known as SLART, walked away from art for two decades. A single blog post reignited his passion, sparking a journey of artistic self-discovery, personal branding, and creative business growth.

Now, he's sharing the lessons he's learned about self-publishing, collaboration, and balancing art with commerce while navigating social anxiety and the ever-evolving role of technology in creativity.

From Creative Hiatus to Artistic Revival

After 20 years away from art, SLART found his way back through an unexpected spark of inspiration. His journey proves that creativity never truly disappears it just waits for the right moment to resurface.

"I just bought some pen and ink from Amazon." A simple act that reopened the door to artistic expression and self-discovery.

That return to creativity wasn't just about making art again. It was about finding new ways to navigate the challenges of an art career mentorship, community, and financial sustainability.

Actionable Insight: Creativity is always there. If you've stepped away, find a small action today to reignite it.

Bonus: Set aside 15 minutes to explore an old passion without judgment.

The Art of Balancing Creativity and Commerce

Making art is one thing. Making a living from it? That's a whole different challenge. SLART has wrestled with the tension between creative expression and financial stability, finding ways to sustain his work without compromising his vision.

"It's a real internal struggle." Every artist faces the push-and-pull of passion vs. profitability.

The solution? Diversifying income streams, building an engaged audience, and treating art like a business without losing the love for it.

Actionable Insight: Think beyond galleries explore self-publishing, commissions, or digital products as income streams.

Bonus: Identify one new way to monetize your art without sacrificing creativity.

The Power of Mentorship and Community

Success in the creative world doesn't happen in isolation. SLART credits much of his growth to mentorship and surrounding himself with like-minded artists.

"We're not alone as artists."

By seeking guidance and supporting others, artists can build momentum, stay motivated, and expand their opportunities. Whether through formal mentorship or organic connections, having a creative community makes the journey more fulfilling.

Actionable Insight: Reach out to one fellow artist today whether for advice, collaboration, or just to connect.

Bonus: Join an online or local artist community to surround yourself with creative energy.

Experimentation, Technology & The Role of AI in Art

AI is shaking up the creative world. Some fear it, some embrace it but SLART believes it's just another tool in an artist's arsenal.

"There's no rules in art."

The key? Use technology to enhance your creative process rather than replace it. Experiment, adapt, and stay ahead of the curve.

"We need to embrace AI."

Whether it's automation, digital tools, or new ways of reaching audiences, technology can empower artists rather than hinder them.

Actionable Insight: Try a new creative tool or technique this week whether AI-powered or not.

Bonus: Research an artist who's successfully integrated technology into their work.

Key Takeaways

• Creativity never dies it just waits for the right spark.
• Balancing art and commerce is possible with the right mindset.
• Community and mentorship make the artist's...

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
That's just made me realizethat A, we're not alone as artists
and B, when you stop thinkingabout yourself and you, you open
things up in a collaborative way.
It works so much betterbecause you're.
You're lifting everyone uprather than trying to further your
own agenda.
Which is fine.
There's nothing wrong withtrying to get somewhere yourself.

(00:22):
But every time I seem to tryand get somewhere myself, compared
to where we do somethingcollaborative, the collaborative
flows a lot easier and itgrows a lot quicker.
Welcome to the StandoutCreatives, where making money and
creating meaningful work gohand in hand.
You're already passionateabout what you create.
Now let's turn that passioninto a standout business.

(00:45):
Marketing your work doesn'thave to be overwhelming.
It can actually amplify your creativity.
I'm your guide, Kevin Chung,and this podcast is your roadmap
to creative business success.
I'll show you how to turn yourunique talents into a business that
truly represents who you are.
Let's get started.
What if getting your creativespark back wasn't just about picking

(01:06):
up a pen, but about turning a20 year break into a whole new chapter?
Meet Steven Light, AKA Slark.
He didn't just come back to art.
He turned his hiatus intofresh, authentic creative journey.
After two decades off, hefound the courage to return and build
something that works for him.
In this episode, we talkedabout how Slart turned fear into

(01:29):
fuel, challenges into wins,and realized creativity doesn't have
a finish line.
It's a messy, wild ride thatnever stops.
If you've ever felt stuck ordisconnected from your creative self,
this one's for you.
It's not just inspiring, it'sa roadmap for kicking off your creative
comeback.

(01:49):
Now on to the episode.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Standout Creatives Today on Steven
Light.
Also known as Slart.
He is an outsider artist,muralist and all around creative
rebel, and the author of ArtLife and Creativity.
His raw, expressive work divesdeep into human struggles, nostalgia

(02:10):
and the beauty of imperfection.
After a 20 year break fromart, he picked up a pen in 2019 and
never looked back, turning hispassion into a prolific career with
exhibitions, murals, and agrowing community of misfits and
rule breakers.
That's awesome.
Slark, can you tell us alittle bit more about yourself and
how you got into the workyou're doing?
Thank you for the intro, Kevin.

(02:32):
It makes me sound really professional.
It was a brilliant intro.
So yeah, it was.
It was quite interesting how Igot back into art again.
So it was from the Impetus wasfrom a guy called Thomas J.
Bevin and he's on, he'sactually on Substack.
He got me into Substack.
We'll talk about that later.

(02:52):
And I read one of his blogposts and it was talking about being
a autodidactic, basically aself learner.
And he asked three questionsin his post and it said what did
you like doing as a child?
What did people say you weregood at as a child?
And what did you spend most ofyour time doing as a child?

(03:14):
And it was clear to me what I did.
I either played video games orI was drawing most of the time.
And then I thought to myself,I don't really want to.
I know nowadays you can pursuea career in E gaming and stuff like
that, but I didn't feel like Iwanted to spend a lot of time in
video games.
So I thought I used to do drawing.
People said I was good atdrawing and yeah, I used to spend

(03:37):
all my time doing it.
So I, after I read his post Ijust, I bought a.
Bought some pen and ink fromAmazon and started drawing again.
Drew I think it was eightdifferent black and white sketches
of my dog.
And it was weird when I firststarted drawing I was like.
Felt really uncomfortable.
It was like self judgment andis this any good?

(04:01):
Oh, I haven't done it for 20 years.
I'm gonna be rubbish.
But after I started drawing Iwas getting back into the flow of
it quite quickly and reallyenjoyed it.
And I just really cherishthose drawings now.
They're.
They're the gateway back intome getting back into art again.
So that, that's how it all started.
Do you want me to carry onwith how I got to now or did you

(04:21):
want to ask anything around that?
Yeah.
What were you doing betweenthe pause like you were.
I guess you said you had doneart classes early on in your life
and then you had that 20 year break.
Yeah, that's a good question.
So I did.
I dropped out when I was 17.
My art class and then took ayear out.

(04:45):
I was too nervous to go to university.
I had quite bad social anxiety then.
So the idea of going, movingaway, meeting new people just terrified
me.
So what I did, I went to mylocal college and studied multimedia.
So that was like web design,graphic design, video editing, some
audio stuff as well.
So it gave me a kind ofoverview of early digital stuff.

(05:09):
This was back in God 2001 nowwhen I started that.
And I thought to myself goinginto digital would be more pragmatic
than being an artist.
I didn't believe or anyone.
There was no one around me whocould tell me that art was a valid
career.
So I just decided to go ininto web design.
So I did that, finishedcollege, struggled my way finding

(05:35):
some kind of contract work,did freelance for quite a few years
and then I actually got into.
Because I had social anxietywhen I was younger, I set up support
groups for people with social anxiety.
We did public speaking, we didall sorts of different, different
trips out in London.
Have you heard of meetup.com Iset up a meetup.com group and it

(05:57):
became the biggest.
I think it was one of thebiggest in the world.
And that was just through megetting out of my comfort zone and
setting that up.
And then that's still runningnow, someone else has took that over
and then for the past eightyears I've been working full time
as well for a company doingall sorts of different web and optimization
stuff.
So yeah, it's been.

(06:18):
Since.
When was it 2019 that I gotback into art again?
And it's been.
I've been building things upsince then.
I've averaged five exhibitionsa year whilst working full time.
So that's where my passionlies and it's going in that direction
now.
This is where I'm planning tomove into, transition into that.

(06:40):
Very cool.
Did you.
When did you stop.
Did you stop drawingaltogether or did you still dabble
with art a little bit whileyou were in this period or you just
completely, just gave it up infavor of the digital?
I didn't do anything at all, actually.
I remember.
Well, I remember distinctly Idrew a picture of my mum and her
friend, probably about 20,2012 or something like that.

(07:03):
I drew one picture and thendidn't think it was very good and
then I didn't do anything elsesince, so no, I didn't do anything.
Yeah, it's really strangebecause I still had creative outlets.
I was doing stuff, the web,doing video editing and bits and
pieces, but no, no actual drawing.
Like once out of 20 years, I'dsay it's quite a long time when I

(07:26):
say it out loud actually.
Yeah, that's kind of interesting.
Did you want to be an artistwhen you were like a child or.
I wanted to be a video gamedesigner specifically.
But all I knew as a child, Ireally loved drawing but there was
no, like I say, role modelsaround me who could say, oh, you
could do that as a job.
It's quite sad about that.
In the art world, you don't.

(07:47):
Children are not generallyencouraged to become artists.
You'll be told that yourdrawing is good, but no one kind
of encourages in that direction.
So I drew a lot of video gamecovers when I was a kid for Nintendo.
I was just making these gamesup with friends and I kind of thought

(08:10):
it'd go in that direction.
Yes.
Since then, really beingaround more artists and having a
studio and looking up tomentors, it's like it is actually.
It's a valid, validprofession, especially in the digital
age.
You can, as you know, you helppeople get their work out there.

(08:32):
In some ways, it's a loteasier and it's a lot harder because
there's.
There's so much information,there's so many platforms that.
Easier to get it out, butharder to get noticed.
Yeah, exactly.
I did have a question about.
Not a question, but the ideaof people really, really enjoying
art throughout their entire lives.

(08:54):
We all enjoy pieces of art,whether that's, you know, books or
movies or games or any of that stuff.
But we're still not encouraged to.
To take that on as a career,which is a very interesting idea.
I don't know where the ideacame from that you can't, because
we're all constantly consumingthings that are considered like art.

(09:16):
Yeah, that's really interesting.
Yeah.
Because we all, like.
You say, watch films, but youdon't have a parent generally who
says, you could go and make afilm if you want.
You.
You just believe, well, I canpossibly do that, but you can.
Yeah.
That's why we need to supportyounger people, mentor them and just
explain that it's a valid,valid path if you want to take it.

(09:42):
Yeah.
I like to.
Not to downplay any kind ofsurgeons or doctors, but I think
I posted a meme on Instagram afew months ago and it said it was
implying that becoming anartist is a lot harder than becoming
a surgeon, because.
Not that I could become asurgeon, but there's a clear path,
isn't there?
You study for a certain amountof time, you pass certain exams,

(10:06):
and you.
There's a clear pathway on howto get there, but there's not that
for an artist.
You go to art school and thenyou might get supported in your graduation
exhibitions and stuff, butthere's no clear path on how to make
a profession out of that orget hired.
So I mean it in that respect.
I don't mean any disrespect tosurgeons or doctors, but there's

(10:26):
definitely a clear path on howto do that.
Yeah.
What the interesting thing isback in, I don't know, hundreds of
years Ago people had theapprentice and master format, which
is how like things get passeddown from generation to generation.
I think it probably startedright around the Industrial revolution

(10:47):
is my guess, where thatrelationship no longer existed because
people are just going out intofactories and finding like mass,
like things like, I don'tknow, whatever we have in the world,
there's a role for that.
Instead of having like thisone on one relationship or one on

(11:08):
many relationship with somesort of teacher, you just gotta figure
it out because it's notsomething that people consider like
a great career.
Yeah, no, I agree.
That's just made me think.
It's like you get art teacherswho are teaching children how to
do art and all the techniquesor whatever, but there's, there's

(11:30):
no.
It seems rare that you'll geta, an artist who's making money who
is taking on a young person togo and do that.
You might get a studioassistant, but I don't know, it's
just given me kind of the ideain the back of my mind, how could
we create something like that?
It's.
Yeah, go back to the way.

(11:52):
Yeah, because if you've doneit then you'll want to pass it on
to someone else generally.
Not for, not everyone, Iguess, but I kind of feel that way.
I would have loved to have thesupport when I was younger and if
I can support someone else, it's.
Yeah, I feel like it's in myobligation to do so.
That's one common themetalking to a bunch of creative people

(12:16):
is that there's no guidance.
There could be guidance, butusually it's very difficult to find
guidance in whatever creativepursuit you want.
Unless you're into like anorganization or something, you know,
where, where you're needed foryour creativity, but not for your
own sake, but for the sake ofwhatever the company is.

(12:38):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it's.
Yeah, you, the person issupporting the company rather than
the other way around.
It's.
And it's almost.
They're using the young personin a lot of internships for either
free or cheaper labour, whichis rubbish really, because a lot
of younger people feel likethey have to do that to get ahead.

(12:58):
And it's.
And if you don't haveexperience, you can't get a job.
So you have to take this kindof free internship, which is.
Yeah, it shouldn't be likethat really.
You're still, you're working,you should get paid.
Um, yeah, I think, I mean,obviously as artists, a lot of artists
look at capitalism as like oneof the things that has kind of made

(13:20):
becoming an artist difficultbecause everybody is going to just
try to generate the most moneythat you possibly can.
And that doesn't really lineup with the idea of creating something
like personal or, you know,interesting for yourself.
It's like you still have tosurvive, obviously.
So that's why we do work thatwe don't necessarily want to do.

(13:44):
But the creative outlet is adifficult way to generate that, Even
though that is the way thatyou need to approach it.
Yeah, it's a real internal struggle.
I know some artists who reallywouldn't sell any of their work and
they're okay doing it in theirspare time.
Some people are totallyagainst capitalism.

(14:06):
I've kind of found a happymedium now.
Yeah, I.
I'm okay with.
With selling my art and Idon't feel like I'm not really into
doing commissions because itkind of feels.
Feels like you have to do itin a certain way for someone.
But I would rather create whatI feel compelled to create and then

(14:26):
put that out there in theworld for someone to buy it.
And part of that is I enjoysetting up my own exhibitions.
I try not to rely on otherpeople to.
Or galleries.
I've contacted a lot ofgalleries before, but there's so
many other people contacting them.
So I really enjoy setting upevents and setting up my own exhibitions

(14:48):
and then making a real lovelyatmosphere out of it and creating
that environment where peoplewant to come and buy my work and
see my work and meet me in person.
And I find that reallysatisfying more than prints to people
I don't know.
It's nice having thatrelationship and a real connection

(15:10):
with people.
An example of that.
I set up an exhibition in2022, and just prior, I think it
was a year before that, I soldsome artwork.
I had a little exhibition in acafe and quite a few of the pieces
sold.

(15:31):
And then this particular guy,I didn't know who bought the pieces
then.
And then the guy came along tothe exhibition and met me and I just
felt so grateful for that.
I was blown away that this guybought my work and then he took the
time to find out who I was andthen came along to the exhibition.
I don't take anything likethat for granted.
And I think artists should beokay with selling their work.

(15:55):
You don't have to sell allyour work and you just have to find
the happy balance withcreating what you want to create
and finding a way to sell it.
Yeah, it's.
It can be.
It can be quite tough,especially when you've Got so many
inner conflicts.
Whether your work is any goodor if no one buys it for a while,

(16:16):
you kind of have self doubtswhether it's.
Whether it's good as well.
It's just.
It's a constant internalbattle as well.
Yeah, I think just becomfortable with the idea of selling.
That's okay.
Be comfortable with the ideaof selling, especially since it allows
you to create more.

(16:37):
So if you don't make money,it's hard to justify continuing to
try to get yourself out there.
But so you need in order to dothat to become more recognized, sell
more, Be comfortable withselling so that way you can continue
to create and feed yourselfwith your art.
Not necessarily that you needto, but that if you want it to get

(16:58):
to more people and have thembe changed by your work, then you
need to be comfortable withthat idea.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's.
Yeah, I.
I feel quite blessed that I am.
I've been able to supportmyself through my day job for now
because all the art I'vecreated is.

(17:20):
There hasn't been any pressureand I want to get to the stage.
I don't want to be reliant onthe income from my art.
So I want, I want to haveother, other income streams as well.
So it's not just if I don'tsell X amount of pieces this month,
then I can't support myself.
So there's, there's the book,as you mentioned, I haven't marketed

(17:44):
it that much since it cameout, but that's the plan.
And I've got some other booksin the pipeline.
I've actually created somecolouring books out of my artwork,
which I thought was quite afun idea.
So I figured out how to selfpublish and it's like with anything
you've said before on yourother podcasts.
Like I listened to one ofyours today and you're saying when

(18:06):
you're doing your solopodcast, it feels a bit uncomfortable
at first, doesn't it?
And then you get used to itand things get a lot easier.
And with.
Yeah, with the selfpublishing, I think it took me a
couple of years to publish my book.
Art Life and Creativity firststarted putting it together during
lockdown and I think it was 2020.

(18:27):
So I got a load of my artworkand then formatted it into a book
with inspirational quoteswhich I felt matched my artwork.
So it's kind of acontemplative book where it's not
a kind of read from the startto the end book.
You could pick it up fromanywhere, open a page and take in

(18:48):
the artwork and then read thequotes and then I finished it and
then I.
I had massive self doubts.
I was like, I can't publishthis, it's rubbish.
So I left it for a couple ofyears and then it was after my.
My kidney transplant in July2022 that I just had a new lease,

(19:10):
lease of life.
And then did the final changesto it and then just got it out there
and I thought I've got nothingto lose.
I just put it out there.
So I've sold some copies andI've had.
Had some personal feedbackwhich was nice.
So I had an open studio event.
I had some copies for salethere and there was this guy who

(19:30):
was a lawyer.
He bought a copy and then hewent out and he read.
He read through the whole bookand had a cup of coffee and he took
his time to actually come backin and tell me how much he loved
the book, which I thought was lovely.
He didn't have to come backin, but he did he come back in and
said I really enjoyed that.
I just sat outside, had acoffee, read through and had a look

(19:52):
at your artwork.
And it's.
That's exactly what that wasmy intention for people to kind of
like a meditative book just to.
Not to rush for it, just tocontemplate and read the quotes and
look at the artwork and takeyour time really.
So yeah, that's what I wassaying that having other income streams
like books and selling artprints specifically.

(20:12):
So I've tried different waysof printing and shipping art prints.
So I want to try to do somemore drop shipping like print on
demand stuff so I can focus onthe marketing side and then get that,
get those sent out.
So that'll be another income stream.
And then I might be open tocommissions in the future.
If I want to word it in a waythat people understand that what

(20:34):
they request will be in mystyle, it's not.
Sorry, I got a bit of a cold.
Yes.
If people do request commissions.
I was talking about it withanother friend.
She was saying as long aspeople know that it's going to be
in my style.
Because like a lot of peoplethink if you hire an artist it's
going to be in a certain wayand it's going to be like a realistic

(20:57):
picture, if that makes sense.
So it's.
There's a conception in withpeople, it's a bit of a generalization.
But if you speak to just arandom person on the street and you
show them a piece of realisticartwork like hyper realism, it Looks
almost like a photo.
They will class that as goodart, if that makes sense.

(21:20):
If you don't know much aboutart, you'll see that and you think,
oh, that's good because it's realistic.
But that's not my style.
So just for me to be clearwith that, and it takes the pressure
off me and the relationshipwith the person getting the commission
from me, that it's in mystyle, if that makes sense.

(21:42):
And I would feel morecomfortable doing that.
Yeah.
So I think as an artist inthis day and age, you have to mix
it up a bit, have differentincome streams, have.
Yeah.
Just not rely on one thing.
And you have to be a promoter,a marketer and do a lot yourself,

(22:03):
which sadly a lot of artists don't.
Don't really like doing.
Yeah.
I was just seeing if you hadmore to say, I think.
Sorry.
Yeah.
I think that your point tohaving multiple income streams is
like one of the most importantthings for any creative person to
have, because then you don'thave to rely on any single way to

(22:26):
continue to.
To feed your creativity.
You.
You don't have to always lookto be in a gallery.
I think that's one of thethings that people think artists
should do and that's the onlyway they.
They need to make money is tobe in a gallery.
But there's an infinite numberof ways that you can make money from
your art.
So it's like thinking outsideof the strict idea that the gallery

(22:50):
is the thing.
I think that's probablysomething that our galleries forced
onto people.
The idea that you need to haveyour stuff in a gallery to be, like,
legitimate, even though that'snot really the case.
No, that's so true.
I went through that phase myself.
I was contacting a lot ofgalleries, hearing nothing and feeling
quite dejected about it andfeeling like I need to be represented

(23:12):
by a gallery to be a real artist.
That's not true.
You can have your own platformon social media or substack or anywhere
and build your own audience of people.
There seems to be a lot ofpressure of getting huge audiences,
but you just need a small,dedicated audience, really, don't
you?

(23:32):
And just say for artists notto lose sight of that.
Even in your local community,people forget that there's people
close to them.
There's an abstract idea that you're.
You're going to be like socialmedia famous and get loads of people
admiring you.
But even if that happened,that's not going to fulfill any artist,

(23:53):
really.
You just.
All artists want to do iscreate their work and make money
from it.
The whole.
Having millions of followers doesn't.
Doesn't really make a difference.
I know I can't say that from.
Because I haven't got millionsof followers, but still, I know that
at points where I've had a lotof admiration or a lot of interaction

(24:14):
with my posts or whatever, it doesn't.
It's nice, but it's not.
It doesn't beat the feeling ofme actually painting or losing myself
in my art.
It's not.
It's nowhere near the same as that.
We need to go back to thatbasic fact that that's.
Yeah.
Not lose sight of that.
Yeah.
So I think every time that Iget a chance, I like to mention Kevin

(24:37):
Kelly's idea of 1000 true fans.
And that's the idea thatinstead of trying to get millions
of people to like your stuffwho are tepid about it, you know,
they like your work, butthey're not, like, super passionate
about it, it's better to havethe core group of people who are,
like, really passionate aboutwhat you're doing and how it makes
them feel.
And, you know, the connectionthat you have between you and the

(24:59):
person that buys your art.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It reminds.
Well, I was just thinking on.
On Instagram of.
I think I've got nearly 6,000followers, but there's hardly any
interaction on it.
But on Subsec, I've got about730, and there's so much more interaction

(25:23):
and it's.
It's much more.
Yeah, it's much more enjoyableconnecting with that community.
Not to say there's anythingwrong with Instagram community, but
it's just.
It seems that not many people see.
See my posts on there.
Yeah.
I think the way that Instagramused to work is the people that you
are following, you would seethem all the time, which is why you

(25:44):
would get a lot of interactionin the beginning.
And then I guess, Meta tookover it and they kind of just changed
it so that now that they haveall these people, they can just charge
people to get in front of people.
And if you don't pay for that,you're not going to get seen that
much.
It's like you have to bewilling to.
To know where you want to put it.

(26:06):
And the fact that somethinglike Substack, which we're both very
big fans of at this moment, isa great place because you kind of
get to control when people seeit through the emails, and I think
that's one of the biggestparts of it as well.
As you know, the note system.
Yeah, I keep, I do like likingnotes again, but sometimes I get

(26:28):
a bit fed up with it.
But the whole zine thing, it's really.
As you know, I just posted anote about zines.
I've got it here.
Actually.
I bought this zine a couple ofweeks ago from Merette Birouk, who
she's on Substack, but I thinkshe left it now.

(26:51):
So she's left her posts onthere, but she doesn't interact on
there because she's a bigadvocate of being offline.
I really loved the idea of azine and I was, I was like, I really
want to make one for next year.
So I posted something on notessaying about I just wrote zine.
Zines.
I love zines.
Please show me more zines.
I didn't plan the comment, Ijust wrote something random.

(27:14):
Then there's thousands ofpeople saw that and then commented
and they said, oh yeah, that'sa great idea.
I love zines.
Here's my zine.
And then that turned into aglobal collaboration and there's
130 people on there.
We're all creating one page each.
That's just made me realizethat A, we're not alone as artists

(27:36):
and B, when you stop thinkingabout yourself and you, you open
things up in a collaborativeway, it works so much better because
you're, you're liftingeveryone up rather than trying to
further your own agenda.
Which is fine.
There's nothing wrong withtrying to get somewhere yourself.
But every time I seem to tryand get somewhere myself, compared

(28:00):
to where we do somethingcollaborative, the collaborative
flows a lot easier and itgrows a lot quicker.
Yeah.
And it's just, just attractedpeople all over the world and it's
really look forward to seeingwhat happens with that.
So the deadline for that, asyou know, was yesterday.
So we've got all the peopleinvolved and then we've got a zine

(28:20):
librarian, which I didn't evenknow was a thing.
So she, I don't knowspecifically the ins and outs of
the role, but she said she canget the, get the zine into libraries
and like archived as an actualregistered library book in America,
which is mad.

(28:44):
And yeah, that's just gonnalift everyone involved, isn't it?
It's just the, a beautifulcommunity thing that's gonna lift
everyone involved andhopefully inspire everyone who reads
it as well and just create.
Yeah, who knows what's gonnahappen from that.
So I can't remember what mypoint was, but it was just with notes,

(29:07):
it Seems to be pretty, prettyspot on in that respect.
When we're talking aboutzines, it seemed to draw everyone
who was interested in that topic.
And I don't know exactly howthat works on their algorithm, but
it's restored my faith insubstack notes again.
It seems to be connecting mewith the right people.
So that's pretty cool.
Yeah, I think once you have apost that reaches a bunch of people,

(29:29):
then you're like, okay, thisis kind of the deal with it.
And if you continue to postinto that idea, they'll continue
to like get you in front ofthose same types of people.
Since it worked already, Ithink that's.
Yeah, probably some of what'sgoing on there.
Can you talk a little bitabout how you came up for the idea
of this, like, global sceneand like how you plan on essentially

(29:52):
getting all the submissions,rounding everything up, you know,
getting it ready for printing where.
How to print in all that kindof stuff?
Yeah, I can't even rememberhow the idea came about.
It was just.
It was from that post.
So when I saw a lot ofinteraction in that, I thought, why
don't we set up something?
And then I quickly put thepost together with the submission

(30:16):
details and then I set thesedeadlines and they're just arbitrary
deadlines.
All deadlines are really.
Aren't they?
They're just someone sets them.
Yeah, I don't know.
It just kind of happened quite quickly.
So that when I posted thatzine thing on notes, that was 29th
of December, so it was likewithin a month, it's just gone from

(30:37):
that little post to I thinkit's 130 people working together
on this global project.
So the first step is to geteveryone's entries together.
They're one page each, sothat'll be roughly 65 pages in.
And in terms of production, Ihave to admit, I don't know exactly

(31:01):
this is how these thingsunfold because we're working together,
we'll figure.
Figure it out together.
But my initial idea was ratherthan printing it centrally, which
will cost.
It won't cost loads becausezines don't cost that much.
But if we maybe print athousand copies and there's 65 pages
each, that's still a fair bitof money for one person.

(31:22):
So each person prints outmaybe 10 copies each and then post
them to the buyers which arenearest to them, basically.
And then the idea of some kindof global auction where we all put
our creative efforts intodirecting people to an auction where
all of the copies are Sold inone date.

(31:43):
So there's a build up to that.
And then I don't know wherethis time capsule idea came about,
but all these things came to me.
So to keep one copy each thatwe bury in our local area.
I have no idea where we'regoing to bury it or whatnot, but
I just love the idea of allthese people burying one copy of
this scene in wherever theywant to near to them, and then they're

(32:07):
dug up in like a couple ofhundred years or whatever.
And then all these.
Yeah, I just find that quite cool.
And I don't know.
Yeah.
Where all these ideas came from.
But as creators, we don'talways know.
We can't always take credit,can we?
It's just a melting pot ofeverything and inspirations and who

(32:29):
you've spoken to, what you'veread, what you've watched.
And from a higher power,whatever, we don't know.
So that's.
That's the rough plan alongthe way.
When I sent out the email toeveryone today and I got a reply
saying, let's have a zoom callwith everyone, which would be quite
chaotic.

(32:50):
Yeah.
130 people trying to geteveryone together at the same time
will be hard as it is.
But maybe that will happen.
We'll see what happens with that.
But I'm quite loose about it.
I'm not a controlling personat all in terms of saying, we have
to do this, this and this, andyou have to do it this way.

(33:10):
Even the deadlines, they don'thave to be super strict.
But I just wanted to putsomething there because as creatives,
you'll feel delayed.
Forever if you don't put it.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
If I just said, oh, I'll takeyour time, and then, yeah, never
get done.
So you've got about a month todo it, which is enough.
Enough time, I think, to doone page each.
So, yeah, I'm gonna documentthat on my substack as well.

(33:32):
So I think that's aninteresting story, how this all unfolds,
and really excited about whereit goes.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that's about it, really.
On that.
I was reading Stephen King'sOn Writing, and one of the most interesting
things that he said in thebook was that his ideas just come

(33:53):
out of thin air.
He's like, I can't make them,I can't generate them.
If I wanted to, they just cometo me.
Which makes it both, like,frustrating and interesting because
you can't.
Like, the creative gods orwhatever you believe in don't work
in the ways that you thinkthey are, sometimes they just come

(34:13):
to you because you've beengestating on different ideas your
whole life.
Like you said, they'll justpop up randomly at the moment that
you need them.
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing,isn't it?
Sometimes I feel a bit sketchyabout saying about higher powers
and stuff and I'm notparticularly religious, but I'm quite
spiritual and yeah, who reallyknows where these ideas come from.

(34:37):
A lot of the time the egowants to say, this is my great idea.
But with this zine thing, Idon't, I can't say, I don't feel
like saying, oh, this is mygreat idea.
It's just something that cameout of nowhere when I read those
blog posts and bought, boughtthat zine and I just wanted to make
my own zine.
And then all this, I guesswhat you focus on, you percolate

(34:59):
in your mind and it, howeverthat happens, it's transmuted into
this whole thing.
So yeah, I don't rememberwhere I heard this, but there's a
book that said that all ideasare out there, they're just coming
to you in this specific momentin time to happen.
So everything that's ever beenlike created or thought of has been

(35:22):
in the world.
It just needs a vessel to come out.
Right.
And I think this global zineidea is just something that needed
to happen because I think theworld is increasingly online, attached
to our screens and this thingis like super like grassroots and
it's not controlled by anysingle person.

(35:44):
It's like a global effort justto in this moment in time, provide
the world with an interestingidea that maybe people will find
in the future and be like, whyare there so many of these everywhere?
You know?
Yeah, yeah, no, that idea yousaid about all the ideas being out
there, I've heard that before.
I can't remember who said itas well, but yeah, I don't know,

(36:07):
I was thinking if I said abouta global magazine, like an actual
glossy magazine, it wouldn'thave the same impact, would it?
Something about this do ityourself self printed idea that is
very counterculture to thewhole digital world and especially
of AI Now I'm quite into AImyself, I'm quite a techie nerd.

(36:29):
But having this idea of agrassroots, as you said, is the best
way to put it.
This attracted all thesepeople not just because of the notes
algorithm, it's because peopleare ready for this and people, yeah,
people craving for it.
And I hope it has that sameimpact on the people who read it
as well.
Sometimes ideas come tooearlier or too late, but sometimes

(36:51):
they come right on time.
So that's one thing about art.
Also, like, sometimes yourthing didn't do well because it wasn't
meant to do well at that time.
It's waiting for the rightmoment to, like, come out and like,
be necessary for the world to see.
Right?
Yeah, no, that's so true.
I can't remember what you said.

(37:12):
I was listening to yourprevious podcast with Bridget.
I forgot her surname and itreminded me of.
I can't remember what you saidon there.
But as creatives, we have allthese ideas and then often I feel
bad because I haven't gotaround to doing this idea, but then

(37:34):
it might be a few years laterand then you've been thinking about
that idea and it's just beenin your subconscious and it comes
out the right time and we haveto be at peace with that.
We can't do everything at once anyway.
So you can give yourselfpermission to put it aside and if
it's meant to come back out,it will come back out at the right
time.
Usually, yeah, it's.
Sometimes you have to letthings sit and they'll sit there

(37:57):
for.
They could potentially sitthere for years.
And then it's like if.
If it's good enough an ideaand you're passionate enough about
it, it'll just keep on poppingup, popping up, popping up.
And that's when you need to doit, when it doesn't leave your head
and you're like, okay, thishas come back.
Like for the hundredth time,this is something I actually need
to do right at this moment.
Right.

(38:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And I find you can't reallyforce anything because it's.
Every time I've tried to forcesomething out, it doesn't, it just
doesn't really work.
And yeah, like you said, youjust have to let it take its course
and it will come out if itneeds to.
One of the interesting ideasthat we talked about earlier was
your social anxiety and notwanting to be out there.

(38:37):
But then you had yourexhibitions in like coffee shops
and stuff where a lot ofpeople were gonna come and see you.
So can you talk a little bitabout maybe overcoming or maybe not
overcoming, but, you know,dealing with the fact that you will
need to interact with peopleif you want to be like an artist?
Yeah, well, I would say I'm ahappy introvert now.

(38:59):
I'm self accepting, but theanxiety doesn't stop me from doing
anything now.
So like I said before, I setup the meetup group and did a lot
of things that are out of mycomfort zone.
I run the groups myself, didpublic speaking courses, tried Toastmasters.
Have you heard of a coachnamed Michael Neal before?

(39:21):
He's quite, he's American, buthe's quite big over here.
He did him and Paul McKenna,who's a hypnotist.
I did a seven day course withthem back in 2006 and there was 300
people there and I.
I did it just to force myselfto be with lots of people and it
was really out of my comfortzone and really uncomfortable.

(39:43):
But the more I kind of exposedmyself and did all these things,
it became easier and I thinkover time I got to the stage where
the anxiety didn't bother me socially.
Sometimes I still feelawkward, but it's not compared to

(40:05):
when I was, I don't know, 18or 20.
I'd drink a lot if we weregoing out to make myself feel comfortable
and finding a job and stufflike that.
Even speaking to someone onthe phone to speak about a job, I
would get all tongue tied andit'd be really difficult and the
idea of working in an officeand having to have small talk with

(40:27):
people felt impossible.
But moving back to now, when Ihad my first exhibition, this was
just after I got my art studio.
So a bit, just briefly aboutmy art studio.
It's in the centre of my townand it was an old post office.
So an artist collective tookit over.
It was from the localgovernment, they used to own the

(40:48):
post office basically in this country.
So they didn't need thebuilding, couldn't use the buildings,
they let the artists use itand just pay the electricity and
stuff.
So I got this studio that Ishare with.
I think there's about 20 otherartists in there.
So I had my first exhibitionthere and that felt very uncomfortable,

(41:11):
very vulnerable, having mywork out there in the public.
But then after, like you said,you keep doing something, it becomes
a lot easier.
And when I set up that soloexhibition I set about in 2022, I
felt really comfortable, basically.
I think there was about 60people who turned up and it was a

(41:31):
really nice event.
I have this piece where Ipainted myself nude, a big blue picture.
It's about four foot by threefoot and I had that in there and
I had some family membersthere as well and all my friends
and I didn't give a shit about it.
I wasn't embarrassed at all,which amazing.
And I just got comfortableabout it.
So yeah, the more I've doneexhibitions and I've got More comfortable.

(41:53):
But one thing I sometimesstruggle with, if I'm with certain
types of people in the artworld, I feel like I have to speak
in a certain way and I get abit panicky.
Like if someone starts talkingabout a particular artist and I don't
know who they are, I feel likeI should know every artist and everything
about their work.
Yeah, I know.
And like, I shoot myself inthe foot, really.

(42:16):
I should say.
I've never heard of that artist.
I just try and, I don't know, panic.
And in my head I try and makesomething up or try and be impressive
in some way, but I've kind oflet my guard down a bit and I just
need to be myself.
It goes back to what you say alot with your chats.
Being a creative, you justneed to be yourself and not have
any pretense there.

(42:36):
And that's the best way to bebecause it.
It's the only way you can befree, really.
You can't.
You can't hold up a Persona for.
It's just exhausting, isn't it?
Yeah.
The only way that if you'regoing to be out in the public, like
you are doing exhibitions andstuff, the only way to really be
is yourself.

(42:57):
Because that's what I thinkpeople really relate to.
They're not necessarily justrelated to the artwork, although
that's like a very big pieceof it.
Sometimes they might like it,but after meeting you, they know
this is.
I want to help him.
I like him, you know, I wantto support what he's doing in the

(43:18):
world.
Not necessarily the biggestfan, but just the connection of you
as an artist with that personcould be enough to, like, show them
that this is something thatthey want.
Even though, you know, artisn't always necessarily just the
thing that gets people to buyfrom you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've been thinking more aboutthat side as well.
Especially with famous artistsas well.

(43:39):
It's not people like owningtheir work or even a print of their
work because of their name andwho they are.
It's not amalgamation of theirwork and who they are as a person
and to some extent their fame,isn't it?
You'll want to look goodowning a David Hockney or something.
And a lot of it is aperception game as well.

(44:03):
Like, you talk about a lot inyour work around the branding side
and the whole package.
And it is.
Yeah, it is rarely just aboutthe artwork you're buying.
The feeling.
How you feel about the personas well, the artist.
Yeah, I mean, that's like.

(44:24):
If you take somebody who's notlike a huge artist and you get it
in front of, let's say, likesome famous galleries or whatever.
It.
And you say that this personis an artist and they're going to
blow up and it could be likean elephant or it could be like a
little kid and everyone'sgoing to fawn over it just because

(44:46):
people say that's what it is.
So it's not always about theart itself.
It's oftentimes abouteveryone's perception of the thing.
Like the.
The example of the bananabeing taped to a wall and being sold
for $3 million.
Like, that's ridiculous.
Come on.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously this artistthought of something interesting
enough to where somebodywanted to buy it, but at the end

(45:09):
of the day, it's just like apiece of.
It's a banana taped to a walland some billionaire ate it.
Like, what is happening?
Yeah, I know.
Yeah.
No, it is, it's.
It reminds me of that guycalled Beeple.
Beeple as well.
Who?
Did you hear about that?
He sold that NFT piece for 60 million.
I think it was in 2020 orsomething like that.
Yeah, there's so much hypearound that.

(45:30):
God knows how that happened,but yeah, it is with my work.
I don't just want it to be anempty perception game.
I have a lot of meaning aroundmy work and kind of personal.
I put a lot of my psyche intoit and want people to connect to
it on that level as well.

(45:52):
I do realize the importance ofhaving a brand and having, like having
my name Slat is kind of.
I said it to someone before.
It's kind of shielding littleold me from the world.
So there's this brandprotecting me in a way, and that's
kind of in front out there.
And it's.
I think it's quite a.

(46:13):
It's become quite a strong brand.
It's not.
And it's not like I sat downand said to myself, well, this is
my brand and this is what I'm doing.
It's kind of evolved.
I just.
One day.
So my name's Steven Light.
Steven Light Art.
I put it together into Slut.
And I was just, Just about togo to sleep and I was thinking, oh,

(46:35):
that'd be quite a cool brand name.
And then I felt terrified andstupid about it.
I thought, no, I can't do that.
That sounds ridiculous.
And then another part ofmyself thought, well, if it.
If it feels scary, just go anddo it anyway.
And then that stuck.
And I've just put it out thereand it's, it's become something that
I'm really happy with.

(46:56):
The name and the way I presentit in the world.
It's.
Yeah.
It's becoming more and moreme, if that makes sense.
I'm letting, letting my guarddown and I often find that, well,
I've been guilty of.
When I write about my pieceson my website, that gets too, too,
too art speaky.
So too much kind of jargonaround it and I catch myself and

(47:16):
I try and simplify it andwrite it in my own way because I
think who am I actually tryingto impress?
Am I just trying to impress myself?
Because I don't think that I'mvery good at writing because I believed,
believed that as a child and Ifailed English.
Am I just over complicating things?
So I've started stripping thatlayer back and just trying to put

(47:40):
my personality out there as itis and not have any pretension around
it at all.
Yeah.
I think it's like oftentimesthe simplest solution is the best
solution.
Yeah.
Like when you try tocommunicate with people using like
impressive sounding words orwhatever, it's harder to reach more

(48:01):
people.
Right.
Because you're trying to justmake yourself seem more important
than you are.
We're all just like on theplanet doing whatever, like trying
to survive.
Yeah.
And make the best use of whatwe have.
So it's like you can't justtry to do stuff to impress people.
You just got to do stuff.
Stuff that's true to you.
And I think Slart as a name isgreat because it, it just kind of

(48:22):
came to you and you werewilling to experiment, which is,
I think one of the biggestthings we need to be as creatives
is willing to experiment andsee what people think and.
Yeah.
Determine whether or not wewant to stick with it.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
That's right.
Yeah.
I did originally, I did haveSteve Light Art as.
As my brand name and it was,it was just kind of vaguely put together.

(48:45):
But since I created the Slutbrand inadvertently, it's.
It's kind of grown andexpanded and refined itself and it's.
Yeah, it's.
It's made it easier to createnew content.
I think Bridget said in herpost that when she works with people
in your last podcast, when sheworks with her clients, she supports

(49:10):
them in refining their voiceand sharing their authentic voice
in a way that makes theirlives easier.
Because you're congruent andyou're sharing from this sturdy place
and it's not all over the place.
And that's how I feel.
It's like everything I shareis from that place and it's.
Yeah, there's no.
I don't have to overthink anything.
It's just sharing anoutpouring of an extension of who

(49:33):
I am, really.
It's a lot easier, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Making stuff up is hard.
That's why when you make up,when you write movies, TVs, books,
whatever, it's.
It's hard because you gottacome up with it from scratch.
And if you're trying topretend to be someone you're not,
it becomes a lot more difficult.
So I think we can put it onPersonas because Slart is like your

(49:55):
Persona as an artist.
That's not entirely who you are.
Right.
Because you have other interests.
You like to play video games,you like to do some other stuff.
That's not quite Slart, but itis like a Persona of you as an artist.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
What kinds of stuff have youexperimented with the most that have
found the most success with.

(50:16):
What do you mean?
Art wise or promotion or anything?
Anything, yeah.
Let's do one of each orwhatever comes to mind, I guess.
Well, I guess with my artstyle I was quite lucky because I
was lucky to have a few peoplepoint out to me that I've got quite
a unique style and I shouldstick with it.

(50:36):
So I kind of forced the style.
They were going back toforcing again and.
Well, it was part ofexperimentation anyway, but it was.
I was trying to make a stylefor style's sake.
So what I did was usePhotoshop to create a kind of put
a filter on photos.
So it just showed.
How do I explain it?

(50:57):
It's kind of, you know, likewhen you get negatives of a photograph,
it just shows like the kind ofshadows around the figure.
So you can see it's a figure,but it's in kind of black and white.
Like a silhouette kind of deal.
Yeah, kind of like a silhouette.
So I.
I did a painting of the showerscene from Psycho where the woman's
screaming.
It looks really cool still andI like it.

(51:19):
And it's got like a redbackground and it's got her face
in black and white.
And you can see the kind.
You can see who it is, butit's like the outlines and the shadows
and stuff.
So I experimented with thatfor a bit, but it felt forced and
I had to kind of try really hard.
And I didn't enjoy creating inthat way as much, so I let my guard

(51:39):
down.
And started painting in my own way.
And I was lucky enough, like Isaid, someone pointed out that I
should stick with that becausehe gave me the example of Picasso.
Like, Picasso was reallytalented as a painter.
He could paint hyperrealistic, realistically as like
a 12 year old or something.
But then he found his ownstyle and he had to almost unlearn

(52:01):
what he learned.
And I, And I was quitefortunate to have my own style, which
didn't take any effort on my part.
It was just what I like doing.
So I like to describe it as akind of naive, outsider art style,
kind of art brut, which is rawart in French, which the artist Jean

(52:24):
Dubuffet coined.
He's quite a inspiration ofmine because he started painting.
I think he started taking hisart career seriously at 41.
I think he was.
I should know that.
Well, there's me thinking Ishould know everything again.
But he, he.
I think he was a wine merchantfor years and then he wanted to have

(52:45):
an art career.
So he really inspires me inthat way.
But he also had his own raw style.
He experimented a lot, usedcement in his paintings and even
used butterflies in hispaintings, which was strange.
But anyway, he.
He had his own style and I waslucky to have my own style.
So I'm sticking with that.
And I.
Sometimes I find it quite.

(53:06):
I have to catch myself becauseI see someone who's a master painter
and they paint really likerealistically, hyper realistically.
I have to remind myself thatthat's not my style.
And I.
And I have no inkling to learnhow to do that.
And I think as creatives, weneed to be honest with ourselves

(53:27):
and stick to what we enjoy.
Because theoretically I couldgo on courses and learn how to paint
like that.
But.
And I'm not discounting it aswell, maybe I will someday if I have
the inkling to.
But yeah, I don't.
I just enjoy painting the wayI do.
And it reminds me of notcomparing myself to Basquiat, but.
Excuse me.

(53:47):
He just painted so unabashedly.
And he didn't sit down and doreally careful painting.
He just really got it outthere on, painted on anything.
Bits of wood, doors, anythinghe got his hands on is just really
raw expression.
And that's the way I paint.
It's not.
I don't have the patience orenjoyment to spend 100 hours on.

(54:11):
On one oil painting or athousand hours or whatever.
So, yeah, I think I was verylucky to find my own style.
And experimenting, yeah, Ithink with experimenting with online
platforms.
I think Substack has been thebest place for me.
Definitely.
Yeah.
I've been on every platform before.

(54:31):
I'm so glad I'm off Twitter as well.
I don't go on there at all now.
But anyway, since I startedwriting on Substack, it took me a
while to get used to itbecause I had the belief that I couldn't
write.
Like I said, I failed Englishat school.
But it's been so rewardingposting twice a week for 18 months,

(54:52):
expressing my thoughts aroundmy art practice and sharing that
with the world.
And that's evolved into aweekly post where I interview different
artists with free questions.
And it feels like I said, it'snot a huge.
I haven't got hundreds ofthousands of subscribers, but it's
a really nice close knitcommunity and it's.

(55:13):
I've been able to expressmyself in writing with my pictures,
showing my photos of myartwork and also some video work.
I've shared some podcasts onthere as well.
So it's.
It's been a really nice platform.
Combine everything that I likecreating on there.
Yeah.
And I'll definitely,definitely continue exploring that.
Yeah.
Not sure what else to say onthat really.

(55:35):
Anything you did, you want toask around that.
I just think it's interestingto have or it's important to have
one style that's you.
But also be willing to experiment.
So you're willing to experiment.
It didn't work out, but thatdoesn't mean you can't try something
else.
Yeah.
And have that work.
So it's like just because youhave a style doesn't mean you can't

(55:59):
try to pull in more influences.
You just have to know what youwant to do after you've done it.
So if you didn't like it, great.
Don't do it anymore.
Right.
You don't have to forceyourself to do anything here.
Yeah.
Because you're the artist.
You can kind of try to do whatfeels right to you.
Yeah.
That's right.
We have to remind ourselvesthere's no rules in art.
You can literally create whatyou want.

(56:20):
What you're saying reminded mewhen I was, when I first joined Substack,
I was like, I see a lot ofpeople on there.
They're totally against anyother social media.
And you see people saying, Ileft Instagram and all that.
I've done that for a while,but I've never left completely.
And the way I see it now, Ikind of see the bigger picture where
I'm just going to keep all theplatforms open and find interesting

(56:44):
Ways to share everywhere.
Like we were speaking about AI before.
I just use something calledOpus Pro for my video posting.
So I.
Mm.
So on YouTube, I want to keepmy YouTube going because it's.
I think it's a great way toshare video and I'll do more with
that.
I had the idea to share dailyYouTube shorts on there from the

(57:07):
content I have already.
So I use this program calledOpus Pro where I upload uploaded
interviews like this and itcreates clips for you.
So you'd have say 50 clipsfrom that, from a conversation that
puts captions on for you andthen I schedule that out.
And I think that is.
That's getting me out there inthe world.
It's sharing my content in away that's simple for me and it doesn't

(57:31):
cause me any much extra workand it's not stressful and it can
point people towards my substack as well.
I like to find kind of ways toleverage AI to support my.
To make my life easier as anartist so I can spend more time painting,
basically.
Exactly.
I think instead of sayingeverything is bad, we just need to
figure out the best way tostreamline things so that way we

(57:55):
can work on the things we wantto work on.
Because that's essentiallywhat the purpose of AI is, is to
help us streamline things tomake them easier for us not to like,
take away things.
Although it could.
Yeah.
If we use it correctly, likeyou said, we can use something like
Opus Riverside is what we'rerecording on right now.

(58:16):
And that also does clips.
And in order to find thatmyself, I would have to watch this
whole thing over again andscrub through it to see where stuff
happens.
But because you can tell AI, Iwant to look for the point where
we talk about branding orwhatever it is and it'll find that
for you.
And that's great because it'sdoing the grunt work.

(58:38):
Yeah, no, that's brilliant.
It reminds me like I've gonethrough phases about around hating
my smartphone as well.
And a smartphone is the same,isn't it?
It's just a tool to make yourlife easier.
But it can go the other way ifyou misuse it and it's.
And you can blame theseplatforms for getting you addicted

(58:59):
on there.
I won't go into that now, butobviously that they.
They do make them addictive.
So you'll go on there and thenmake more money.
But it's also a tool, justlike AI.
It's.
You can be the master of itand not be the slave of the technology
and Especially with AI, if youuse it in the right way, you can.

(59:19):
You can save so much time tospend it doing the things you want
to do.
And a lot of.
I guess a lot of writers areagainst using it for writing because
it's.
People want to write and theydon't want to use it.
But I'll use it to do grammarchecks or make something clearer
if it's not clearer.
But I guess a lot of peoplemight think that you're using it

(59:41):
to write something fromscratch and then you just post out
there and it's just rubbishthat AI has made.
But if you're interacting withit as a human and using it as a co
pilot, I think it can bepretty amazing.
Yeah, it's all about how youuse things.
And I think even though peoplesay using it to write is not art,

(01:00:03):
I would say that it depends onhow you use it.
Right.
It's a tool just like anything else.
Yeah.
It can be used to doeverything for you, but if you use
it in the right way, it canhelp you think through things better
than you could if you werejust staring at the screen watching
the little blinker, like,taunt you as you're trying to figure

(01:00:25):
out what to write.
It helps you to just like, getthe stuff out there, organize your
thoughts, say them in a moreprecise way, just so.
Because it's a tool to helpyou do the things that you want to
do, just like anything else.
And I think there's a funnything, I just heard it the other
day.
It's like when people startedwriting things, everyone was like,

(01:00:46):
don't write things because youhave to live in the now, the firmware
or whatever.
But without that, where wouldwe be now?
Yeah, that's right.
A lot of stuff was passedthrough stories, wasn't it, before.
Before books and everything.
But yeah, I think we need toembrace AI.
I see a lot of things on substack.
I don't know if you've seenthis thing that went around.

(01:01:07):
Someone created these badges.
It said, made by human intelligence.
I thought it was really.
It's really lovely sentiment,but it's.
It's kind of saying that likeyou're saying putting anything that's
not human or using technologyas bad.
It's not that black and white.
And while I don't agree.
Well, I say I don't agree.
I don't.

(01:01:27):
I don't like the idea of usingimage generation for my art.
I still use many other toolsto make my life easier.
Things like coding.
I wasn't a Very good coder.
But with things like chat GPTnow and there's many other things
that you can create an appwithout any code.
It just, it's just an extension.

(01:01:49):
Excuse me, it's just a, likean extra useful tool.
Like if you, if you come upwith an idea and you can't code,
you have to get a coder to do it.
But nowadays you can do thatyourself with these tools and therefore
you can create something thatyou couldn't create before.
I think that's quite amazingand the possibilities are pretty

(01:02:11):
much endless with that.
I've been looking into, Idon't know if you've seen make.com
where you can create these automations.
Yep.
I just find that really cool.
So what I'm experimentingwith, posted on substack about it,
which I haven't got around tofinishing yet, is find a way that

(01:02:33):
I can support substack writersjust to generalize who don't like
posting anywhere else.
They just want to write andpublish a way to automate that.
So it takes the RSS feed fromtheir post and then it shares it
out to a wider network onlinethat can be get them more awareness
of their work and more peoplevisiting their substack basically.

(01:02:56):
And I find that quite cool ifthat can be set up in a way that's
simple and then all they needto do is write and then it spreads
it out then.
Well, I think it's really interesting.
Yeah.
One thing is just recognizingwhere if you're going to automate
something like that,recognizing the platform you're trying
to automate it to and liketailoring it to that as opposed to

(01:03:19):
just copy and paste.
Yeah, because every platformis like a different beast and if
you do something on one andtry to just copy and paste on the
other, it's not necessarilygoing to work because.
Yeah, just for example,Instagram and TikTok, they're both
technically working with likeshort video clips or somebody's talking
about something.
But the people that watchthings on each platform is completely

(01:03:41):
different and the contentthat's pulled up is completely different.
So it's not necessarily a oneto one scenario.
One other thing was I justwanted to shout out lovable.dev is
a platform where you can havework with AI to build an app.
So if you're not a coder youcan use that kind of just to test

(01:04:03):
different ideas and build something.
Yeah, that's the one I wasthinking about.
I forgot what it was.
Yeah, it's really useful.
Yeah.
I'm actually building anescape game because my wife and I
sell these, like, creepyhaunted dolls on Etsy.
And I'm just experimentingwith the idea of building an escape

(01:04:23):
room based on one of the dollsthat we created, which is really
fun.
That sounds cool.
You have to share that whenit's finished.
Yeah, it's a work in progress.
There's a lot of stuff whenyou're working with this type of
thing where it'll makemistakes or there's a lot of little
things that you have to fixand you just gotta go back and forth
with it until you're happy.

(01:04:43):
Yeah.
Cool.
Just briefly, I just wanted totalk about restarting your art career
because before you weren'tdoing any art.
So how do you go from nothingto being in galleries or selling
your stuff in your art studioand coffee shops and all that stuff?
Yeah, it's kind of weirdthinking about that now, how it all

(01:05:04):
came about.
It was kind of serendipitousthe way it happened, which to me
is always an indicator thatyou're doing the right thing.
So soon after, when I starteddrawing again, I thought of going
to life drawing classesbecause I saw one locally, I've never

(01:05:24):
done that before, and I justwanted to give it a go.
So I went to some life drawingclasses and I asked them if they
knew of any studio space.
I wanted some space where Icould dedicate to my painting so
I didn't make a mess at home.
The woman who run the grouptold me about this studio called
Artsite, which was down theroad, the one I'm at now.
And I emailed Sally, who isthe founder of it, and she got back

(01:05:49):
to me straight away and shesaid, she said, there's a studio
free.
Someone's just moved out.
So this guy just literallymoved out like a week ago or something.
Normally there's quite bigwaiting lists on there.
So I got there at the righttime, got this studio, and then I
kind of had the belief that I could.
I could make something of thisbecause I've got a studio and I can.

(01:06:12):
It kind of felt more officialhaving an art studio.
Not saying you have to dothat, but in my case, it kind of
felt more like I was.
Even if I wasn't there yet, Ikind of felt like I could feel like
an official artist.
So then they had an exhibitionthere, one I mentioned earlier, my

(01:06:33):
first, first ever exhibition.
Then I had that and it, itwent well.
I just had the inkling to, tosearch for more and then did a few
more and then decided to setthis one up myself.
Yeah, I don't know.
The rest is history, really.
When it started reaching wideraudiences was.
I decided to look for a curator.

(01:06:54):
So I found someone on LinkedIn.
I just contacted.
I only contacted two curatorsin London.
One got back to me and then Ijoined their roster of artists on
their website.
And then she.
She supported me and was kindof my spokesperson.
So, for example, she took mywork to Brussels last year to an

(01:07:19):
art fair.
So she was someone supportingartists by selling the work on their
behalf, so they didn't have tobe there.
So doing all these things,having these different exhibitions,
just grew my belief that Icould actually do that.
Nothing to anyone listening,just go out of your comfort zone.
It's going to be uncomfortableat first, but just start getting

(01:07:40):
comfortable displaying yourwork in public.
That reminded me, I have to go.
Like I said, I had a kidneytransplant, everything's fine, but
I just have to have checkupsevery four months, I think it is.
And there's a lady in there, Igot chatting to her, she's a phlebotomist,
takes the blood for my routinetests and it turns out she's an artist
as well.
And we got chatting and everytime I go back in, ask her how everything's

(01:08:04):
going, and she was saying, oh,I've got my.
My first exhibition.
This was sometime last year.
So she.
From just talking to me, sheactually took the plunge and started
getting her work out there.
And I think it takes thatfeeling of being uncomfortable to
get out there and just takethat first step.
And, yeah, it feels weirdreflecting on it because you're just.

(01:08:24):
As an artist, you're justdoing your thing, aren't you, and
just trying to get by and makeyour art and get it out there.
And I do reflect on what I do,but just thinking about how much
I've done over the past.
It's only been four yearssince I had my studio and I've done
more exhibitions than a lot of people.
I don't say that to show offat all.

(01:08:44):
It's just.
Just been quite fortunate inmeeting the right and getting myself
out there, not being afraid tofeel uncomfortable.
And I think going through thesocial anxiety has made me stronger
around that because I faced myfears before and it's.
And getting my art out thereisn't quite as scary as I found people
when I was younger.
Really, the idea of gettingmyself out there, I've got fairly

(01:09:10):
comfortable with in exhibitions.
I've got to the stage whereI'm not worried about what people
think about my work.
It's just got to a happyfeeling that someone's art isn't
for everyone.
Is it like music?
You're not gonna.
Not everyone's gonna like thesame music or me and you have different
tastes in music.
That's fine.
It's not anything personal.
And as artists we kind of, wecan be quite sensitive to that, that

(01:09:32):
criticism.
But yeah, I definitelyencourage anyone who, especially
the people who don't feel liketheir art is good enough to get to
put it in public, just to putit in public because you don't know
who's going to see it andwho's going to like it.
I like the Andy Warhol quote.
He said, don't think aboutmaking art.
I know.
What was the quote?
Don't think about making art.

(01:09:53):
Just go and make art.
What is it?
I'm going to have to look it up.
Second.
Oh no, that's it.
Don't think about making art.
Just get it done.
Let everyone else decide ifit's good or bad, whether they love
it or hate it while they aredeciding make even more art.
I made a painting of AndyWarhol with those words on it.

(01:10:14):
It's in my studio.
The thing is, I might dislikewhat I've created.
I'd say every time I createsomething I enjoy making it, but
I might not like it at the end.
But then oftentimes thosepieces have been very popular or
if there's something I reallylike, other people don't like it.

(01:10:34):
And I've come to realise noneof that mapping matters.
As long as you enjoy making itand you're getting out there in the
world, that's all that really matters.
Yeah, it's all about one,being willing to put yourself out
there like you were.
You didn't know that this artspace was going to be available to
you.
So that's one likeserendipitous, like you were saying,
moment and then the other isjust like being comfortable with

(01:10:55):
the uncomfortable becausethat's the only way we're going to
learn or grow is to makeourselves uncomfortable.
Otherwise you're just kind ofin the same place all the time, which
is we can be fine.
But if you want to like pushyourself and make more interesting
things happen, you gotta justbe willing to take that, the idea

(01:11:17):
of uncomfort and just workwith it.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that reminded me,actually, you probably don't know
who this is, but there's thisguy called Matt Berry who's.
He's a musician but he's also.
He's been in a Lot of comedyprograms in the uk, so he's quite
well known.
If a lot of people, if theysaw him on the street, they'd know

(01:11:38):
who he is.
So I went to his recordsigning last weekend and it was like,
for an album launch.
And I had the idea in my headto invite him to my exhibition that's
coming up in September.
And I was really nervous aboutit and I'd nearly talked myself out
of it when he was doing a talkbefore the signing and he was talking
about, first of all, we wentto art college, which I didn't know,

(01:11:59):
which put me at ease a bit.
But because he's interested inart, so there's a chance he might
come.
But anyway, he was saying how he.
He had to play it cool infront of people who were more established
than him when he was younger.
So that put me at ease as wellbecause I look up to him as someone
who's quite successful.

(01:12:20):
And anyway, yeah, so he didthe talk and then I gave him a flyer
for my exhibition and I wasreally nervous.
I tried the Play it cool.
I just said, I've got this artshow coming up in September.
Be cool to see you there.
Then I walked off and I feltamazing afterwards.
Even though I was full ofanxiety with the idea of going up

(01:12:41):
to him, it's opened up, like,this new possibility that he might
come along and it doesn'tmatter if he comes along or not.
That's not the point.
It's the realizing that yourcomfort zone isn't real and finding
those opportunities where youcan step outside because it is.
It does feel scary.
And it's a lot morecomfortable to do the same things

(01:13:05):
and feel safe.
But the feeling safe isn't.
Isn't a real comfort.
It's just what you'rehabitually used to.
And the fear isn't inproportion to what.
What it is in reality.
Every time I face those fears,amazing things have happened.
So, yeah, that was pretty cool.
Yeah.
It's a funny thing because,like, evolutionary, we're meant to

(01:13:27):
be, like, in that state ofpanic because obviously we're trying
to, like, avoid getting eatenby tigers and lions and stuff.
Yeah.
So that that fear that youfeel is usually just like that part
of us when we were way backbefore civilizations appeared just
trying to protect us, but nowit's like, kind of hindering us now

(01:13:48):
that most of us are, like, ina comfortable and safe position.
Awesome.
I do have a few more questions left.
Do you know any personally whoalso runs a standout creative business
and what do they do to stand out?
Yeah.
So when I read your questionbefore, I wasn't sure if.
When you say creativebusiness, I didn't know.

(01:14:10):
Let me.
I'll just go out and say it.
So I have this friend calledBeth for apps, and she runs this
company called Raising Clarity.
Well, I say company, she's asolo creative, but she does coaching,
basically.
And I wasn't sure if coachingcame under that, but I wanted to
talk about how she creativelyexpresses herself in the world as

(01:14:32):
a coach.
So she's a deeply spiritualperson, but also she's got a PhD
as well.
So her style is quite.
It can come across as quiteesoteric, but it's highly practical.
And she focuses a lot on timemanagement and money, specifically
on helping people kind of livetheir purpose.

(01:14:53):
If you put it into one sentence.
And like we're talking aboutmultiple income streams, she's.
And followers.
She's.
She doesn't have a ginormousfollowing, but she has a dedicated,
loyal following.
And she has coaching groups,she has books, she has like a few
small courses on her website.
And she.
A combination of all that andwho she is and how.

(01:15:16):
How she comes across that is.
That is sustaining whole life.
And she's practicing.
She basically walks her talk, basically.
She lives a relatively simplelife again, shares herself authentically.
And I think, yeah, she'sreally amazing example to follow.
And her work is amazing as well.
So it's Raising Clarity dot com.

(01:15:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Definitely stands out as howshe's presented herself in the world.
Definitely.
I love when people think a lotabout this question of what a creative
means.
Yeah.
So anyone can be creative,which is one of the things.
And we all tend to think that,like, artists are the only people
who can be creative.
But I think you can takecreativity and apply it to pretty

(01:16:00):
much anything, which is likethe fun of it.
Yeah.
What is one book,extraordinary book, podcast, documentary
tool that has made the biggestimpact on your journey?
I would say I don't know thename of it, but if you have show
notes, I can share the link.
I found this outsider artistsdocumentary and it was presented
by the head of BBC at thetime, Alan Yentop.

(01:16:24):
So it was about a group ofartists from all over the world,
unrelated, but they.
The term outsider artist isbasically untrained in the traditional
art world, so hasn't gone toart college.
And I was watching a lot ofdocumentaries when I was ill with
kidney failure, and that onejust really moved me because there's.

(01:16:45):
There's different artists fromdifferent backgrounds.
One was kind Of a group of.
I don't know how to word it.
They were outsiders in terms of.
They needed support with theirmental health.
But they were, they were justcreating art all the time, just non
stop.
It was just really beautiful.
They were just.
They just had this environmentwhere they were all living in the

(01:17:06):
same place and they weresupported with their mental health
needs.
But they had.
They were just like, likeallowed to paint on the walls and
just create unabashedly allthe time.
And I just thought it was justreally beautiful.
And then there was this otherartist called William Scott who was.
I think he's got quite big now.
He's.
I'm sure he was in the MoMA inSan Francisco.

(01:17:28):
His.
His innocent kind of demeanor.
I don't know why it brought meto tears but he was just like really
kind of down to earth guy andhe was, he was just painting these
visions of San Francisco aslike a utopian place because he was.
He didn't like how some of theareas were quite bad with crime and

(01:17:49):
stuff.
So he kind of created his own world.
And after watching, I don'tknow, it kind of gave me permission
to stick to my own path and beokay with being an outsider artist.
And also I got therealization, realization from that,
that you, you're still anartist even if you're not creating

(01:18:11):
anything.
Because I was too ill.
I couldn't even draw oranything at the time because I wasn't
feeling great.
But by watching thesedocumentaries and got the realization
you don't.
You don't stop becoming anartist if you don't make anything.
You still got it inside of you.
And yeah, that, that was quitea poignant, quite moving documentary
that is outside of themainstream art world.

(01:18:33):
And probably most people I'mhaven't seen that who are in that
kind of world.
Awesome.
What do you think makes acreative business stand out and what
is one piece of advice you'dgive someone based on your experience
on how they can stand out?
I think we touched on this before.
It's like I see it a lot onSubstack especially that people are

(01:18:55):
just being themselves andthey've got their own kind of quirky
brand.
One example stands out to meis I think it's Beth Spencer's introvert
drawing club and she does.
Is really cute.
Have you heard of her?
Yeah.
I would say they're kind ofnaive kind of illustration style
drawings and she's built up afollowing on there totally being

(01:19:18):
herself, just sharingexercises and yeah I think be okay,
you're enough Basically,that's what I'll say.
You're enough to go out thereand be yourself.
You don't have to becomesomething else to get yourself out
there and sharing what you do.
Every single person hassomething about them.
Everyone's different.

(01:19:39):
And you have all of your ownlife experiences and no one's had
the same life as you.
And just by going out there,just by being brave and being out
there and sharing is really is enough.
And you can do the wholebranding thing with your logos and
name and stuff like that, butthat's only a small part of it.

(01:19:59):
Yeah, yeah.
Just like we talked aboutalmost throughout the discussion
is just be willing to.
To put yourself out there as yourself.
It's the easiest way to do itand it's the most likely way to resonate
with people.
Because if we all did the samething or like the same stuff or live
the same life, it would bevery boring and everyone would just

(01:20:21):
be, you know, the same.
So the fact that you are whoyou are is what makes your art or
whatever you're creating more interesting.
Yeah, it does, yeah.
Yeah.
The artists I love most arethe ones who are just being themselves
and sharing their own style.
There's some.
Someone else who comes to mind who.
You probably haven't heard ofMargate in the uk, have you?

(01:20:41):
It's like.
It's like a seaside town, butit's become quite an arty town since
Tracy Emin, who's quite a bigBritish artist.
There's someone there calledMargot in Margate, and she set up
just like really simpleillustrations of women and they kind

(01:21:02):
of look very similar style,like outlines with simple colors.
But she actually got a retailshop, turned that into her own little
gallery, and it's just becomea massive success.
I'd like to see more of thatin the world.
It's quite a bold move, liketaking on a.
A space, but I think it's amove that pays off because you can.

(01:21:22):
Yeah.
Like I said, just by beingyourself and having the courage to
go and go and do that in yourown unique way.
Why wouldn't you go and visitthat place?
I would go to places all day.
If there was an area with allthese kind of independent shops with
different artists in, that'dbe so cool.
Maybe you can make it happenone day.
Yeah.

(01:21:43):
Can you give the listeners achallenge that they can take action
on?
To start standing out?
I would say to artists, I say artists.
To anyone who doesn't thinkthat they.
They can share their work, I'dinvite you to Go and find somewhere
local where you can displayyour work.
But in general, I would justadvise anyone to go out of their

(01:22:07):
comfort zone and share.
Share your work in a waythat's uncomfortable and then let
us know what you've done,because I guarantee it's going to.
It's going to be beneficial.
Even if the outcome of what you.
You shared didn't have theimpact that you imagined.
By facing the.
The fear and going out of yourcomfort zone, that's going to open

(01:22:30):
up things for you anyway.
So it's going to benefit you.
And what's the worst thingthat can happen is what I always
feel like.
Exactly.
If it.
If it doesn't sell, okay, youweren't going to sell it anyways.
What difference did it makethat you put it out there?
I mean, there's very fewscenarios in which doing that will
be harmful.
So just be willing to do that.

(01:22:51):
Yeah.
Flart.
Stephen, it's been reallyawesome talking to you.
I think you got some valuablestuff for people.
I'm really looking forward tothis zine project and seeing how
it turns out.
So where can people keep up todate with you and what you're up
to?
Yeah, sure.

(01:23:13):
The main place you can visitme on my substack.
So that's slart.substack.com awesome.
Yeah, thanks for coming on.
It's been a pleasure.
Yeah, thank you so much, Kevin.
It really has been a pleasure.
Thank you so much.
Okay.
All right.
All the best.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye.
Slart didn't just start makingart again.

(01:23:34):
He found a whole new way toshow up creatively.
His story proves that yourcreativity never really disappears.
It's always there waiting for you.
So what about you?
If you've been stuck wonderingif it's too late or just need a push
to get back into your creativeflow, let's make it happen.
Head to thestandoutcreatives.com and book a

(01:23:55):
free strategy session.
Let's talk about where you arein your creative journey and where
you want to go.
Because your art matters andthe world needs to see it.
Until next time.