October 15, 2025 • 65 mins
What if standing out means showing up fully and not shouting the loudest?
Felicia Iyamu’s creative journey has taken her from architecture and economics to Google, burnout, and back into the arms of poetry. Along the way, she’s been reflecting, writing, and reimagining what it means to live and work with purpose.
Her latest work, Poetry in Eden, explores identity, healing, and the unseen forces shaping our lives. In this episode, we talk about creativity, burnout, self-publishing, marketing, and what it really takes to share your work with the world in a way that feels true to you.
From Burnout to Breakthrough
Felicia didn’t set out to be a poet. She started in architecture. Fell in love with economics. Landed at Google. Then hit a wall.
Her doctor in Germany told her to stop working immediately. Burnout, officially recognized as a medical issue, forced her to pause.
That moment cracked something open. And was followed by a deep return to creativity guided by questions of identity, culture, and healing.
Try this: Revisit a creative idea you set aside. What if it’s ready now?
Bonus idea: Share that idea with a friend or write down a tiny first step you could take today.
Making Art Personal and Professional
Poetry isn’t just a passion project for Felicia. It’s her career.
She walks us through the steps, and surprises, of self-publishing, why she’s eyeing traditional publishing next, and how she thinks about the business side of creativity.
She’s not just writing for herself. She’s building work that connects personal insight with universal ideas. Felicia also talks about marketing with intention, community, and without waiting to be discovered.
Try this: What’s one thing you could do this week to share your creative work more boldly?
Bonus idea: Make a list of 3 people you could reach out to about your creative project—collaboration, feedback, or just a cheerleader.
The Power of Saying Yes
At the end of our chat, Felicia shares a challenge: say yes to invitations for two weeks. Not just social invites but creative ones too.
Because the unexpected paths often bring you back to yourself.
Try this: Say yes to something today you’d usually overthink.
Bonus idea: Keep a little ‘yes journal’ and track what you said yes to and what happened because of it.
Quick Recap
- Burnout can be the beginning of something new.
- Your creative work can hold personal meaning and professional ambition.
- Marketing = connection, not cringe.
- Saying yes opens doors you didn’t see before.
- You don’t need to wait for a perfect moment to begin.
Want to Bring Your Creative Work Into the Spotlight?
Felicia’s reminds us that your voice matters and there’s room for all of it.
If you’re building a creative business and ready to stand out (without selling out), let’s chat.
Book a free strategy session at TheStandoutCreatives.com
Spots are limited, so grab yours while they’re open.
Let’s make your creativity impossible to ignore.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I don't know if it's like thisin the US or in other countries,
but burnout is an officialmedical issue in Germany, and my
doctor immediately recognizedI was burnt out.
That was in November of 2024,and she said I had to stop working
(00:24):
that day.
What do you mean?
It's the end of the year.
This is not possible.
She said, you know what's notpossible is you continuing like this.
And that was a big shock for me.
I thought I could crunch andcrunch and crunch for the rest of
my life.
Thank God I stopped thatbecause I realized I don't like that.
(00:45):
I think I was just stuck insome cycle, some capitalistic cycle
of performance.
Welcome to the StandoutCreatives, where making money and
creating meaningful work gohand in hand.
You're already passionateabout what you create.
Now let's turn that passioninto a standout business.
Marketing.
Your work doesn't have to be overwhelming.
It can actually amplify your creativity.
(01:08):
I'm your guide, Kevin Chung,and this podcast is your roadmap
to creative business success.
I'll show you how to turn yourunique talents into a business that
truly represents who you are.
Let's get started.
Foreign welcome to anotherepisode of the Standout Creatives.
(01:30):
Today I've on Felicia Iamu,and she is a writer, philosopher,
curator who explores universalsearch for meaning through poetry,
history, and geopolitical research.
Her work shines a light onidentity healing in the unseen forces
shaping our world, invitingreaders to engage with big ideas
(01:51):
in deeply personal way.
Her latest book, Poetry inEden, is a poetic and philosophical
journey through the cycles ofhistory, generational trauma, and
the pursuit of peace, blendingintellectual, the intellect, and
soul in a way that lingerslong after the last page.
Beyond her writing, Feliciacurates artistic spaces that celebrate
(02:12):
plurality and thoughtful dialogue.
She extends thoseconversations through a podcast,
Poetry and Eden, where sheinterviews experts and shares insights
on philosophy, storytelling,and the human condition.
If you're drawn to her workthat challenges, heals, and expands
your perspective, Felicia'sworld is one worth stepping into.
(02:35):
That's a lot of amazing stuff.
Felicia, can you tell us alittle bit about yourself, how you
got into that work?
Yeah, absolutely.
How is my audio again?
It's.
It's good.
Yeah.
Okay.
Awesome.
I think the mic justdisconnected, so let me just reset
(03:02):
this up back.
But yeah, you.
The question was, how did Iget into this work?
Correct.
Is that correct?
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
So it's a.
It's a really good question, actually.
I have been writing poetry myentire life, and aside from writing
(03:24):
Reading books is somethingthat always filled me with inspiration.
I can remember as a younggirl, just, like, having so many
books by my bedside table inmy backpack, discussing books with
my parents, and eventuallyrealizing that one day I want to
(03:47):
create one of my own.
I didn't necessarily everthink I would write a poetry book,
to be honest.
The first book I wrote, whichis a manuscript that is still unpublished,
it's over 300 pages, and it'sa historical fantasy novel.
(04:08):
So my passion is actuallywriting historical fantasy.
I would love to get atraditional book deal for something
like this, but in the meantimeof figuring that out, I said, wow,
I've been writing poetry mywhole life.
It's my natural form of writing.
It gives me so much inspiration.
And so at the end of lastyear, I decided to put my first book
(04:34):
of poems out into the world.
Cool.
Can you talk about some ofyour creative leanings when you're
younger?
I know you said you like towrite poems and read books, but what
are some of the particularthings that stick out to you from
your childhood?
Yeah, I remember specificallybeing interested in authors, the
(05:04):
authors who wrote the book.
I also specifically rememberbeing interested in leaders who were
also authors in some way.
It was just Martin Luther KingJr. S birthday in January.
And I remember the first timeI read his speech or our teacher
(05:27):
read his speech.
I have a dream.
And I remember feeling, like,some chills, some unbelievable inspiration,
like, wow, this guy knows alot of stuff to write something like
this.
(05:48):
And I just remember readingthat one over and over and over again.
And there was this, like,contest to write something similar
to him.
And I remember every yearthere was this contest.
And, yeah, a few years in arow, I kept winning this one.
So I liked Martin Luther King Jr.
(06:10):
I stumbled upon Robert Frost'spoems because he's from New England,
so the Northeast.
And I stumbled upon some ofhis poems like Nothing Gold Can Stay
and this secret.
(06:32):
I think the secret is also him.
Sometimes I think it'sThoreau, who's also a New England
poet and philosopher.
But, yeah, Robert Froststopping by woods on a snowy evening
also popped up some years later.
And I remember, yeah, justbeing really inspired by his writing.
(06:59):
Maya Angelou changed my lifebecause I think up until running
into her writing, I only wasreading men and didn't realize it.
Yeah, that's society for you, right?
Right.
(07:19):
Yeah.
And I think my jaw dropped tothe ground when, like, she came up
in class, and I was like, whata poet who's a woman and black.
It was just like, it Justchanged my whole.
(07:42):
My whole life.
Who else?
I'd never read the HarryPotter books, actually, as a child
or a teen.
I read them in my adult life.
They're amazing.
They're full of magic.
But no, J.K. rowling was neveron my icon radar.
(08:07):
Yeah, I think that's a short,short list.
Yeah.
What were your essays aboutfor those contests or your poetry?
Yeah, I wish I could remember.
And I also wish I had them.
Like, we no longer have thechildhood home that I grew up in
(08:31):
and lost a lot of stuff intransit, but, yeah, you know, a 90s
kid.
We also don't have, like, theInternet that is existing today where
you can look anything up andit's probably saved into eternity.
So sometimes I feel sad about that.
(08:54):
Or then parts of me are like,maybe I should be happy about this.
In between time.
I grew up in between thisburst of technology and this life
of more analog.
But I believe they were poems.
(09:15):
It was like a poem and then anessay about the poem that I wrote.
Yeah.
I love the analog versus digital.
Like, I'm also in that spacewhere I grew up.
Right.
In the time where you knewlife before the Internet and then
(09:37):
life after the Internet.
And it's, like, completely different.
Right.
It's so interesting becausethe people who are growing up now
never knew the life before theInternet, which is interesting.
I guess it's like any othernew invention, like life before TV
or life before radio, or likebefore writing even is.
Like all these different timeperiods where technology kind of
(09:59):
shapes the way that the world goes.
Yeah.
I love that point you make.
You're totally right.
Yeah.
That could even be a whole TV series.
I'm sure there already is one.
We just gotta find where itis, right?
Maybe.
Maybe.
Did you continue the creativestuff growing up all the way until
(10:23):
you decided you wanted towrite this book in poetry?
Or did you let it go?
Or how did that work?
I've always been like, rightbrain, left brain, I would say.
And I've always loved to learn.
And in university I went instudying architecture.
(10:45):
That was what I originallywanted to study.
And I had this dream ofopening in, like, an interior design
studio.
This was my ambition for a lotof my life.
And then I took my firstclass, modern architecture.
I studied at Brown in Rhode Island.
Brown University in Rhode Island.
(11:07):
And wow, that was a nightmare.
That class, my goodness.
And getting all the suppliesto build the models was incredibly
expensive.
I was wondering, where iseverybody getting all the moolah
to pay for this?
A lot of rich people going Around.
I mean, Emma Watson was evenin my class.
I graduated with Emma Watson.
(11:28):
Oh, wow.
She was sitting behind methere in the class.
And you still didn't watch.
You didn't watch Harry Potter?
Exactly.
I didn't watch Harry Potter.
That's so funny.
I hadn't read them, but then Idid later on.
I think it was like that yearI decided to read it.
But yeah, like, this modernarchitecture class just kind of like
(11:49):
messed it all up for me, whichin a good way.
I felt like, whoa, this iscompletely unfair.
Like, we had a final exam, right?
I couldn't figure out, youknow, how to make my model as.
Look as good as the nextperson because, you know, I just
said, let me just get some thestuff I can afford and, you know,
make it look the way it needsto look.
(12:11):
And I think I stayed up likethat whole night and built the model.
I was so proud of myself.
And I don't know how everyoneelse got their model to this exhibition,
but I had to walk mine over.
Oh, my.
God.
Yeah.
And you know, all the otherclasses, I took them with.
With a bunch of friends.
(12:31):
But architecture was somewherewhere it was just a little bit, I
don't know, a different world,a little bit elite even.
Anyways, I had to walk mymodel over and a huge gust of wind
came around the corner rightwhen I was walking into that.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
Completely destroyed by myentire model.
(12:53):
And actually the exhibitionwas like, you bring it in and the
teacher walks around and thenhe grades it there in front of everyone.
And so this was a completenightmare because even with all the
photos I had on my, like,little BlackBerry of, like, what
it really looked like, theteacher refused to give me a grade
(13:15):
based off of the photos.
And he gave me a grade basedoff of the little sticks and Styrofoam.
Oh, God.
Yeah.
And I have an older brother.
He went to Villanova.
He studied economics andpolitical science.
He always wanted to be a lawyer.
He ended up being a lawyer.
And yeah, I was pretty devastated.
(13:37):
I couldn't figure out if I can.
Would continue with architecture.
And I remember him calling meand I was like, probably crying.
I. I think.
And he just was just like, whydon't you just, you know, I really
think you actually would like economics.
And I was, you know, he's myolder brother, so I was like, don't
(13:59):
you.
What are you saying?
I don't want.
And then like, secretly wentand took economics class and the
teacher was talking about theinvisible hand theory, and I had
way more Friends in thatclass, we all sat in the front and
(14:24):
I remember being completely inspired.
I was like obsessed even.
I just fell in love with economics.
I loved the math part, thetheory part, the application of it,
(14:44):
the way that you could tie itback to real life.
And ended up silentlyswitching from architecture to economics
and then minored in religiousstudies because I always like to
understand how people havebeliefs and like how their beliefs
(15:08):
shape their life.
And so yeah, I was economicsand religion and the, you know, must
have applied to bajillionjobs, I can't remember.
And the job I got wasinvestment banking analyst at Goldman
Sachs in between Houston,Texas and New York.
(15:31):
So nope, I didn't stick to the path.
My first job out, I mean I didthree summers of investment banking
internships and then yeah,that first job out was with Goldman.
What a nightmare.
(15:52):
Talking about not sleeping andreally a mismatch of values.
I woo.
I mean that's a whole otherepisode that we can go.
But yeah, I learned a lotabout myself and I learned a lot
about people and then again Iwanted to try something else.
(16:21):
I was completely burnt out.
I was actually like reallyshocked by the environment.
I think I was in complete shock.
I had never experiencedanything like that in my life.
And at that point Google wastouting unofficial model called don't
(16:46):
be evil.
I remember thinking, hey,maybe that's my ticket.
That seems like that reallyaligns with what I believe in.
And so, and I had a friendworking there at the time and he
was, you know, pretty stand upguy and, and had strong values too.
(17:12):
And he ended up referring meand I did all the bajillion interviews
and, and in the end, yeah,they hired me.
So I had two weeks to movefrom New York to San Francisco and
then started at Google inmarketing and spent eight years with
(17:38):
them until June of last year.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I know you're now inGermany, so how did you end up there?
Yeah, during my studies atBrown, me and one of my best friends
Sophia, we were taking German.
(18:01):
I took Spanish growing up andthen was looking for something else
and my friend Sophia was like,let's try German out.
We went to something calledKaffe Stunde Coffee Hour.
I remember thinking, man, likeit doesn't, this doesn't sound like
the, those movies with those,you know, bad guys speaking that
(18:25):
harsh German.
This sounds the stereotypical.
Yeah, so this sounds a littlebit different.
This has a little, littlejingle to it and yeah, and it was
complicated.
It kind of scratched adifferent part of my brain and yeah,
Sophia and I buddied up and westudied German and then we studied
(18:49):
abroad in Berlin.
And what was that?
I'm bad with the quick math.
That was like 13 years ago.
And yes, since then Berlinalways has had a piece of my heart.
And I then with Google, whileI, you know, I started in San Francisco,
(19:13):
I actually spent majority ofmy time with them out of the us Moved
to Singapore, actually oneyear in with them.
So was living in Singapore forthree years with them and then moved
to Berlin with them and wasfour years in Berlin with them.
(19:37):
And yeah, you know, you know,spent some time in Lisbon in the
past year.
But yeah, back in Berlin, itfeels, feels like home.
Can you talk about theinternational perspective?
(19:58):
So living in the US and thenmoving abroad, how that changed your
perspective on the world andyour creative work?
Yeah, oh yeah, totally.
You know, my parentsimmigrated to the US so they were
not born in America.
My mother is from Jamaica andmy dad is from Nigeria.
(20:23):
And so the Caribbean and West Africa.
They met in New York City.
My brother was born in NewYork City.
And then I was a surprise babythat came along two years later,
surprise, there's another one.
But they were very happybecause they had got a boy and they
got a girl.
(20:43):
And, you know, I think mostpeople really wish for this.
And, you know, I think someimmigrants really try to assimilate,
I think that's the word.
But like, maybe we were the opposite.
Like, my mom always has herJamaican accent, my dad has his Nigerian
accent.
(21:04):
Like, we grew up going toJamaica every year because it's right.
Hop and skip away.
Like, yeah, a big family, lotsof cousins, lots of tradition.
And so this kind of like,American way, like, was never really
(21:28):
something I clung to.
Like, I felt like, yeah, American.
I don't even know if it reallycame into my consciousness until
I left America, to be honest.
Which is interesting because Ithink it's the other way around for
(21:50):
most people.
They really stand by thisAmerican thing.
And I had the opportunity withGoogle to leave, and that was right
when Mr. Trumpy becamepresident for the first time.
And I took the opportunity.
(22:11):
And yeah, it's interesting,like, as a writer living outside
of the the US for all thesenow eight, nine years to have an
outside look in and still havethe context of what it means to,
(22:33):
quote, unquote, be American.
And I find myself latelybecause I have this substack newsletter
which is the same title as thebook Poetry in Eden.
And I never used to reallywrite so much about America or American
(22:56):
politics until recently, whereit Became very clear to me that actually
this is my unique point of view.
Being able to understandwhat's going on in America while
(23:18):
not still being there createssome type of.
I want to make a movie reference.
Some image just came into my mind.
I can't remember what film itis, but I can describe it and the
feeling of it.
Whereas it's like you'rewatching something happening and
(23:41):
you're there in the room witheveryone and it's maybe kind of like
you're a ghost.
You're there with everyone andthey're, you know, living their life,
doing their thing, and you cansee it, but they can't see you.
Sometimes it feels like this.
I don't have another way todescribe it.
(24:05):
You know, it's like an out ofbody experience.
Yeah.
While being in the room, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
And so this is what it feelslike often as an artist who's quote
unquote American, livingoutside of America.
(24:34):
And you said this is what mostof your poetry in Eden is about or
just what you're thinkingabout right now.
Oh, poetry in Eden?
No, poetry in Eden has nothingto do with any type of these geographic
(24:54):
locations.
It's a more spiritual andelevated philosophical poetry.
But the column I have thatcomes out every two weeks, which
are thought pieces, I findmyself writing more and more about
America.
(25:15):
Yeah.
Can you talk about the, themoment where poetry and Eden came
to you when you decided, okay,I'm gonna actually do this, I'm gonna
release this book.
Yeah, it was in December 2024.
(25:43):
I. I had a really great job at Google.
I always had really greatroles because I could analyze data
really well and I have a humanelement to me.
(26:06):
I never lost my empathy.
I think in the end that bit mein, in the tail.
I don't know the right Englishterm for it, but for a long time
my empathy was something thatactually helped my career.
And yeah, I didn't mindworking very hard.
(26:31):
These were, I think, threecharacteristics of my career.
And so, yeah, I, I'm also alittle bit of a health freak.
I love, you know, having myannual dentist checkup.
Never had a cavity, knock on wood.
And yeah, that's the mostimpressive feat that you've had.
(26:53):
I know, right?
And yeah, I like go to the doctor.
I work out a lot, I drink tonsof water.
Anyways, so I went for justlike a check in and my doctor was
really worried doing all thisblood drawing.
(27:15):
And then this is in Germany.
And yeah, it was just like 30minutes total meeting.
But at the end she realizedvery quickly, I think.
I don't know if it's like thisin the US or in other countries,
but burnout is an officialmedical issue in Germany.
(27:39):
And my doctor immediatelyrecognized I was burnt out.
That was in November of 2024.
And she said I had to stopworking that day.
Oh, wow.
(27:59):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I was like, what do you meanit's the end of the year?
Like, it's.
This is not possible.
She said, no, no.
She said, you know what's notpossible is you, like, you continuing
like this.
And that was a big shock for me.
(28:20):
I thought I could crunch andcrunch and crunch for the rest of
my life.
Thank God I stopped thatbecause I realized I don't like that.
I think I was just stuck insome cycle, some capitalistic cycle
performance.
And so anyways, In December of2024, when we were in Lisbon, Portugal,
(28:42):
in the sunshine, it was thefirst time in my life that, like,
I had taken more than twoweeks vacation and was just, like,
figuring out how to be andexist and just feel my way through
the day.
I made a timeline, and on thetimeline, I wrote, it's time to.
(29:08):
To publish your poems.
It's time to publish my poems.
And that's.
Yeah, that's when I decided,sorry, this is.
I said 2024, but it's 2023,because we're in 2020.
I was gonna say that was very,very fast timeline.
(29:31):
So, yeah, 2023.
And yeah, I made the timeline,like, showed it to my.
Some loved ones, and it waslike in a back of a history book
I was reading and, like,didn't look at it for a long time,
actually, and then publishedPoetry in Eden, you know, in 2024,
(29:56):
and stumbled across this bookand this timeline I had written back
then.
And I was like, whoa, whoa, my gosh.
Like, I did everything on thisthing, like, and I felt like, I don't
know, really grateful tomyself for making a pivot and quitting
(30:19):
Google and that way of life.
To live in a way that feelsgood and right and happy.
Yeah, A lot of people willlook at you, having worked at Google
and say that's like thepinnacle of a career.
(30:41):
But I think if you work toohard at anything, no matter what
it is, you're going to hitthat point where you're.
You're working too much.
Right.
And life is not meant to bedone that way.
I mean, biologically speaking,we were never meant to work like,
the way that we're working.
I don't know, 40 years in a row.
(31:03):
Without stopping to worryabout retirement and enjoying life
after you've already worked todeath and you're, like, already too
tired to do really anything.
Oh, that's an interesting.
I love that you say that.
Yeah.
I just think.
I mean, we're just meant ashumans, as a species.
(31:23):
We just decided within thelast, I don't know, like, 200 years
that this is the way thatwe're going to live it.
We're working 40 hours everyweek and not taking vacations, and
we're proud of our work.
Right.
It's like, okay, what else isthere to this life?
Is that what it's meant to be?
Yeah, exactly.
(31:46):
Exactly.
You're exactly right.
So when you were consideringyour poetry book, where were all
of the poems already writtenand you were just compiling them,
or was it a process of alsowriting before completing it?
(32:08):
It's a good question.
I would say maybe three of thepoems are poems I wrote as a teenager.
And so they mean a lot to me.
And I feel grateful thatsomehow between, again, this analog
(32:34):
to digital life, they survived.
Not sure how, but they did.
So three of them.
I think it's like three of them.
Maybe even only two I wrote asa teenager.
Some of them were written, ora version of them had been written
(32:58):
in my column.
Usually the format of mycolumn is like, thought piece and
then ends with an originalpoem by me.
And so some of the poems fromthat I put in the book, and then
(33:19):
the rest just came from the flow.
And I wanted to make somedistinct chapters as well.
So I thought the four elementswere really perfect way to categorize
the poems.
(33:42):
So the poems are.
Yeah, separated into four chapters.
Earth, wind, fire, water, and yeah.
The COVID designer is Ukrainian.
The interior design.
(34:04):
So chapter design.
She's from South Korea, livingin Seoul.
I think she recently moved toHong Kong, actually, interestingly
enough.
And the design to be able tofit all the publishing requirements
(34:27):
is a agency based in Portugal.
Oh.
So just like your life,there's an international aspect to
your book, which is awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
I love to cover as many viewsas possible.
(34:53):
I think that's one importantthing in creative work.
Not just to look at, you know,the people you're familiar with or
surrounding you or the peoplethat you know, but also to just go
out there and see what otherperspectives people have to offer.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
I always fear I'm.
(35:14):
I'm.
I could end up in an echo chamber.
And for me, that's anothertype of a matrix.
I need to rewatch that moviebecause I, yeah, I love to use that
analogy.
I love that film.
Yeah, there's interestinglyenough, if you're, if you pay close
(35:36):
enough attention or if youhear people talk about it, there's
so many philosophical elementsto that series and it's just not
what they're advertising thesemovies to be.
Right.
It's like they're advertisingit to be like these cool action movies.
But obviously there's likedeeper meaning throughout all the
films.
(35:56):
Yeah, totally.
I think, you know, somethingabout film is like they're creating
stories, but I sometimes Ifeel like they're like, in terms
of like quantum reality orsomething like this.
(36:18):
I think maybe some of the bestfilm directors and writers maybe
are even pulling something outof some quantum reality and that's
why it affects people so muchand shapes their perspective.
(36:40):
But most of my favorite moviesare love, love stories anyway.
The Matrix is an outlier.
I think one interesting idea,I think it was Rick Rubin in his
book the Creative Pursuitwhere he talked about all ideas are
out there and they're justlooking for a vessel to find the
(37:02):
way to get out into the world.
So they're existing in somecapacity out in the ether.
Right.
And we as artists and creativepeople are just using that inspiration
from what's already existingand just giving it an avenue to be
spread farther.
Oh, I like that.
It reminds me of ElizabethGilbert's book Big Magic and she
(37:31):
says that inspiration is likethe tale of a cat.
Like, and it's like not thesweetest imagery because I really
don't think you should grabthe tail of a cat.
But she does that.
If you don't grab it, it willjust pass you right by on to the
next person.
So it's, it's.
(37:51):
I love that you bring this one.
I hadn't heard, heard that ofhim and I don't, I haven't read that
book yet, so maybe I will.
Oh, it's very good.
It's not like a strictly storydriven or like through line book.
It's just random thoughts oncreativity just like spouted out.
(38:16):
They're not really organizedin a way that you would expect the
flow of a book to be.
They're just like, you canturn to any page and figure out how
this applies to your creativejourney in this moment.
Oh, cool.
I like that.
Yeah, I'll check it out.
Give me a reminder of the name later.
Yeah, I did read Big Magicmany years ago, so I think it's come
(38:38):
up a few times recently and Ithink it's time to revisit it Because
I remember being very inspiredby it.
Ooh, okay, great.
So you, you'll read that oneand I'll read the other one?
Yeah.
Nice.
Can you talk about the processof deciding that you're going to
(38:59):
make the poetry book and thenthe actual release of it?
So how did you go from okay, Iknow I'm going to do this to actually
getting it?
I know you worked with a lotof people in that process to.
Oh, yeah, I even still feeloverwhelmed, like thinking about
(39:20):
it.
Still have no idea how thisbook is out.
No, I'm just kidding.
Yeah.
What's the process?
There's a lot of steps.
I'm not even sure I couldsummarize them.
Let's see.
Or if you were gonna do ananother book, what would that process
look like?
What do you think the stepswould be to go from idea to complete
(39:43):
a project?
I hope I have a book agent and a.
And a deal for the next ones.
But yeah, I can do it.
The process, basically youneed the manuscript, of course.
So the fully edited, polishedwork of what will be inside the book
(40:08):
then.
And this is the selfpublishing, so putting the book out
into the world on your ownaccord process.
So yeah, manuscript iscomplete, then it needs to fit specific
requirements.
So that means being very clearon what format it will be published
(40:33):
in.
Will it be published as an ebook?
Will it be published as a paperback?
Will it be published as hard copy?
Will it be published as all three?
For me, I don't like hard copypoetry books.
That's a very specific thingto me.
So I have an ebook in a paperback.
(40:56):
So these are the two formatsthat I chose.
And then I said, okay, ebookin paperback.
Like there are specific specsthat cover the spine and the back
cover need to be a specific way.
And the back cover also needsto be written and was written by
(41:22):
me.
And so I worked with thisdesign team in Portugal to ensure
that the COVID was finalizedin a way that I felt really suited
my soul and that the spine andback cover also stood out in this
(41:47):
way.
I got an endorsement for theback cover.
I think that this always ishelpful for people picking up the
book.
The endorsement is actuallynot even like some book reviewer
magazine or an author oranything like that related to writing.
My endorser is a sustainableluxury fashion brand, so that is
(42:16):
also really unique.
And it's Pakistani, German,Meher Kikalia.
That's the name on the back ofthe book with the endorsement.
And once those elements werefinalized, then the specs are made
to ensure that all the bordersand the page numbers and the font
(42:36):
size and the colors andeverything meets the requirements
of all the distribution platforms.
And there's tons of.
From Barnes and Nobles toWaterstone in the UK to Amazon to
Foyles to the list goes on and on.
(42:58):
My book is available globally,so there's actually tons of distribution
channels.
And so I this again, NunoDesigns, it's there inside of the
book.
Helped me make sure all thespace specs were industry standard.
Then the book is ready to beuploaded and I did a pre order timeline
(43:27):
where people could pre orderthe book.
And then the launch of thebook for me was the end of November.
And yeah, it launched in theend of November.
Somehow it was number threeglobally in the general poetry category
for 30 days.
I don't know who the heck waslooking for.
(43:50):
That's good marketing, huh?
And yeah, I don't know.
It's not a lucrative business,I'll tell you that.
But it feels nice.
And I realize I don't needmuch in life anyway.
And is that the whole process?
Let me see if I missed anything.
Yeah, Tracking everything andall the dashboards and the marketing.
(44:15):
I'm still doing the marketing.
Maybe I'll do the marketingfor the rest of my life.
Isn't that crazy?
But yeah, I think that's the process.
I hope that answers it.
Oh yeah.
So every book that you seeanywhere, there's so many elements
(44:37):
that go into that thing.
It's not just like a writerwrites the thing and it's like immediately
ready.
There's a million steps.
Right.
And marketing is just evenjust a very small part of that, that
very large process.
Can you talk about some of thestuff that you've done to market
your book?
(44:58):
Yeah, I requested a review byPublishers Weekly, which is known
as the Book Bible, the BookBible magazine.
It's been around since 1892sometimes and some 18 something.
(45:20):
It's been around a long time.
Publishers Weekly.
And yeah, I hadn't.
You know, this could go really bad.
You know, as a debut author,they grade your book cover, they
grade the editing, they gradethe overall marketing copy, they
grade illustrations and thenthey give a review of the book.
(45:47):
Could have been a really badreview, but they gave me all A's.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, I got a B in editing.
Yeah, I know.
I got a B in editing.
And the review was exactlywhat I wanted people to take away
from the book.
(46:08):
So this became one marketing element.
I still haven't received thehard copy magazine, but because the
review was so good, I Was thenin the January.
So last month's PublishersWeekly magazine.
I've had a lot of peopleemailing me, some people finding
me on Instagram and findingthe book in this way.
(46:31):
So this has been aninteresting marketing channel.
I do a poem of the week on myInstagram and each of the poems are
now, of course, from thePoetry in Eden book.
And since I've gotten intolike modeling now, I have a lot of
photo shoots and I have a lotof photos.
(46:52):
So in that way I can curate myfeed to show this kind of aesthetic
while also sharing the poems.
So the photography of me isthere with the poem of the week.
And yeah, I, you know, want tocontinue every form of marketing
(47:19):
that I can.
Had some Amazon ads running aswell, had someone find me also on
Instagram from this and saidthey loved the book and yeah, I'll
continue.
It's a lot to be done, a lotof live readings.
(47:40):
This has been good.
I sent some copies to influencers.
No, not a single one of themposted it.
So that was a little bit.
I mean, even I sent one allthe way to Singapore and that was
a really big ticket shipping cost.
And I don't even know if sheReddit but tried the influencer strategy.
(48:05):
This one didn't go so go so well.
But that's all right.
And yeah, more to come.
Yeah.
I think the important thing isthat you're trying things because
you.
No one really knows what'sgoing to work.
There's a lot of luck in someelements and then there's a lot of
(48:27):
timing.
You know, there's.
There's so many things that gointo marketing that you have no real
control over.
So I think the important thingis to just try as many things that
you're comfortable with aspossible, as long as there's some
sort of strategic element to it.
Oh, I like that.
Yeah, I think you're rightbecause that.
(48:49):
Who knows?
That book review could havegone wrong if.
If they didn't like it.
It could have been sent tosomebody else that was reviewing
it and that could have beenlike the.
Between an A and, you know, B,like, so you never know.
Totally, totally.
And that person could behaving a bad day and be like, oh,
no, I'm just gonna doeverything bad.
(49:10):
It's just like everything is acrapshoot, I think.
So it's just being intentionalabout willing to be marketing your
book all the time.
Yeah, I like that.
Yeah, it's a nice perspective.
I've been in the weeds, sothat's refreshing perspective.
(49:31):
Yeah.
Can you describe how you planto get your historical fiction into
like traditional publishingsince you've done self publishing,
why you'd want to make thatchange and what you plan to do to
(49:51):
get that done?
Yeah, I want to be a career author.
So I think the best is to havean agent.
And yeah, this takes time, I think.
J.K. rowling, for instance,what did she query?
Like over 250 people and onlyone came back with a yes.
(50:13):
And if that one didn't giveher the yes, we would have never
all seen Harry Potter.
So like I really should, youknow, put more time into this, you
know, between running thesocial media myself, writing the
column, doing some, you know,side works, I haven't put enough
(50:37):
energy into querying.
But I do have a big tracker.
And yeah, the process for thatis to literally use the world wide
web to find an agent that islooking for the type of book that
I have.
(50:57):
So they would need to beinterested in historical fiction
and they would need to be opento unsolicited queries.
A lot of agents close theirdoors halfway through the year, so
(51:20):
that's also makes it pressing.
Some, yeah, are a lot of.
Yeah, so it's really a matchmaking process and then some luck.
Like they must get thousandsand thousands of people emailing
book ideas to them and yeah,they choose one and it has.
(51:44):
Even if the book is great, ifthere's another book on their list
that it feels too similar towhat's being pitched, then maybe
that's the reason why oneperson's getting rejected.
So it's a little bit of a crapshoot.
But yeah, you know, withauthors, like sometimes they just
(52:05):
die with their, their books.
Right.
Their manuscripts unpublishedand then it's like a sad thing to
say, but you know, it's apossibility too, I hope.
I don't know.
And why did you decide thatyou wanted to get this traditionally
published?
(52:26):
Yeah, because I think thatthis series could go on forever and
that it can change the nextgeneration's way of existing and
heal some parts of the world.
Like on one side the story isincredibly good in my perspective
(52:48):
and I'll give the summary in a second.
And then on the second sideit, you know, if it's a six book
series, if I were to selfpublish the first book, according
to most publishing law, then Iwould need to self publish all of
them on my own.
So the best is to get someonefrom the start to publish them because
(53:13):
then they need to publish thewhole series and I think that's the
best that would Be the best.
And so, yeah, the book rightnow is called Icarus.
That's the title I have.
And the first book is a boyfrom North Korea and a girl from
East Berlin during the ColdWar are dreaming of freedom and two
(53:40):
portals appear to them andthey both immediately walk through
them.
One portal leads to.
To a quote unquote paradise,and the other portal leads to an
ice cold punk rock underworld.
They both must get throughthese places before the actual devil
takes the most potent hopeaway from the boy, because the boy
(54:03):
has the most potent hope inthe world.
But unfortunately, by the endof the first book, the actual devil
does take this most potenthope away from the boy.
And now the devil has theability to retell history, past,
present, and future.
And so that's the end of bookone, and then book two.
The actual devil is rewritingWorld War II.
(54:26):
Very interesting.
That's just a sneak peek forwhen you get that book published.
So hopefully if you keep upwith Felicia, you'll find out what
happens, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Well, I know you have to go.
It's late over there.
So we'll wrap it up with a fewfinal questions.
(54:49):
Do you know anyone personallywho also runs a standout creative
business, and what do they doto stand out?
Yeah, I know a bunch ofpeople, but actually, people in the
wine industry have been.
(55:11):
This was like the first thingthat popped into my mind.
Friends in the wine industry, Somalias.
And I don't know, this hasreally been enticing me, the way
their dedication, theirknowledge about the.
The craft and the process.
This for me is really stand out.
(55:32):
I've been feeling reallyinspired by my sommelier friends
and the natural winebusinesses that they're running.
That's the first time I'veheard that.
So that's kind of interesting.
That reminds me of Jira Dreamsof Sushi.
I don't know if you've seenthat one, but that's a very detailed
(55:52):
perspective of the craft ofone of the most famous sushi makers
in the world.
Wow.
It sounds familiar, but I'dlove to check it out.
Yeah, definitely check thatone out.
If you haven't seen it, whatis one extraordinary book, podcast,
documentary, or tool that'smade the biggest impact on your journey?
(56:16):
Yeah.
On writing by Stephen King.
That helped me finish the.
My novel.
I think I need to reread it again.
It appeared actually on mydesk at work in Singapore after I
told a colleague that I wastrying to finish my book.
(56:37):
And I had never read a book sofast than that.
On writing Book.
And shortly after finishingit, I finished the first draft, of
course course of my novel.
It changed my life on Reddit.
Yeah.
By Stephen King.
I'm in the middle of it andthat just gives me a reminder to
(56:59):
finish it.
I'm.
I'm listening to the audiobookversion of it.
Oh, yeah.
But it's.
It's very good.
I just need to get down andfinish it.
I'm switching between a bunchof books right now.
One of them is on Play,interestingly enough.
That has nothing to do with this.
But it's just an interestingidea to look into how Play affects
(57:20):
all of us.
I like that.
Yeah.
Like inner child and.
Yeah.
And it's one thing that helpswith the survival of species.
Interestingly enough, becauseyou learn how to interact with others
(57:42):
in a way that shows thatyou're not threatening and you wanna,
you know, this is an elementof fun and play.
Right.
Versus always being on theattack or on the run.
Right.
Interesting.
Oh, I like that.
Wow, you sound like you havethe best book recommendation.
(58:06):
Give me one second, I'll pullup the title.
I forget exactly offhand, butit is called Play how how it Shapes
the Brain, Opens theImagination and Invigorates the Soul.
And that's by Dr. Stuart Brown.
(58:31):
Oh, I like that a lot.
Thank you.
Of course.
What do you think makes acreative business stand out and what
is one piece of advice thatyou give based on your experience
to help people stand out?
Marketing.
Marketing.
Marketing, huh?
Yeah, I think that's what.
That in the end is what makesthings stand out.
(58:54):
Right.
Marketing.
Copy the branding like everyOlympus and being willing to just
push it with high quality andpush it to the limit.
I think in this day and age,that's the secret sauce.
Not so secret.
Takes a lot of work.
Yeah.
That's one interestingperspective that I think comes from
(59:14):
your like financial andbusiness background.
Because a lot of artists andcreative are opposed to the idea
of marketing.
Even though marketing is justa way to get your thing in front
of people who want to consumeyour thing.
So it's not necessarily a bad thing.
It's just like how do youposition yourself to do that?
(59:35):
I can understand that.
This hesitancy, if that's a word.
Yeah.
It can make.
It can feel icky.
Even this poem of the week, asmuch as I love the idea of it, every
time I have to post it, I'mlike, oh, another photo of me and
my poem.
Like, you know, it can feel alittle bit icky, all this self promotion
(01:00:01):
and marketing.
But yeah, it's necessary.
Yeah, I mean, it's the onlyreal way to get your work out into
the world.
And if you want your stuff tohave an impact on as many people
as possible, that's the bestway to do it, is to figure out how
to make marketing somethingthat's exciting and fun and playful,
(01:00:23):
that element of play again,into using that in a creative way,
since you're a creative personto get in front of the people who
want it or need it.
Yeah, you're right.
I like that too.
Can you give the listeners achallenge so they can take right
(01:00:44):
now to start standing out?
Sure.
For the next two weeks, aslong as it's safe to do it.
Whatever invitation someonegives, you have to say yes.
(01:01:10):
And I think they'll besurprised where this leads them and
how it pushes their boundaries.
Sometimes I do this for acouple of days and I grew up doing
dance, for example.
I could give an example.
I grew up doing dance and thenI stopped for many years and I was
(01:01:35):
doing this kind of yes challenge.
I like to do it when I'm insomewhere new and a friend said,
hey, I'm gonna do this splitspecific class.
Do you want to come?
And I was in my yes kind of week.
So I said yeah.
And I didn't think I wouldlike it.
And it's literally the dance class.
(01:01:56):
Like one year later, I'm, I'mstill doing and obsessed with this
like heels dance class.
So yeah, it's a maybe sounds alittle bit like a strange challenge,
but as long as it's safe andyou know, always respect your own
(01:02:18):
boundaries.
But I say try the two week yes challenge.
Yeah.
Sometimes you don't knowwhat's gonna happen until you accept
ideas into your life.
So sometimes you have to sayyes even though it's uncomfortable
as long as, like you said, itfits within your idea of safety and
(01:02:43):
you know, something that youfeel good doing.
Yeah, exactly.
Awesome.
Well, Felicia, this has beenreally awesome talking to you.
Can you tell people where theycan keep up to date with your work
and find out when your novelcomes out?
Yeah, absolutely.
(01:03:04):
For all things about my work,please Visit my website feliciamu.com
Again, that's Felicia iamu.comF E L I C I A I Y a m u.com and my
(01:03:24):
all of my things are there.
From poetry and Eden, the book to.
To the podcast to my bi weeklycolumn to my modeling portfolio,
to Icarus, the novel.
Everything can be found there.
And if anyone wants to workwith me one on one or contact me,
(01:03:44):
there's also a way to dothat@feliciamu.com awesome.
Well, yeah.
Thanks again, Felicia forcoming on.
It's been a pleasure and I'msure we could have talked for a lot
longer, but it's getting lateover there.
Yeah.
I'm so happy to to spend thistime with you.
I feel grateful.
And also, you know, check outmy Instagram also feliciamu and I
(01:04:11):
look forward to being in touch.
All right, thanks again.
Bye Bye.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of the Standout Greetings.
If you're feeling stuck, let'schat and see how we can help you
start standing out instead ofburning out.
You can sign up for a freestrategy call@thestandoutcreatives.com
(01:04:32):
if you want to keep up to datewith everything I'm working on, including
interviews, essays andupcoming projects, head to standoutcreativebusiness
substack Hub.
And if you have any thoughtson this episode or just want to check
that, you can follow me onInstagram Standout Creative Business.
Thanks again for tuning in andas always, lean into your creativity
(01:04:55):
and curiosity.
I'll see you again on the next episode.
I don't know if it's like thisin the US or in other countries,
but burnout is an officialmedical issue in Germany, and my
doctor immediately recognizedI was burnt out.
That was in November of 2024,and she said I had to stop working
(00:24):
that day.
What do you mean?
It's the end of the year.
This is not possible.
She said, you know what's notpossible is you continuing like this.
And that was a big shock for me.
I thought I could crunch andcrunch and crunch for the rest of
my life.
Thank God I stopped thatbecause I realized I don't like that.
(00:45):
I think I was just stuck insome cycle, some capitalistic cycle
of performance.
Welcome to the StandoutCreatives, where making money and
creating meaningful work gohand in hand.
You're already passionateabout what you create.
Now let's turn that passioninto a standout business.
Marketing.
Your work doesn't have to be overwhelming.
It can actually amplify your creativity.
(01:08):
I'm your guide, Kevin Chung,and this podcast is your roadmap
to creative business success.
I'll show you how to turn yourunique talents into a business that
truly represents who you are.
Let's get started.
Foreign welcome to anotherepisode of the Standout Creatives.
(01:30):
Today I've on Felicia Iamu,and she is a writer, philosopher,
curator who explores universalsearch for meaning through poetry,
history, and geopolitical research.
Her work shines a light onidentity healing in the unseen forces
shaping our world, invitingreaders to engage with big ideas
(01:51):
in deeply personal way.
Her latest book, Poetry inEden, is a poetic and philosophical
journey through the cycles ofhistory, generational trauma, and
the pursuit of peace, blendingintellectual, the intellect, and
soul in a way that lingerslong after the last page.
Beyond her writing, Feliciacurates artistic spaces that celebrate
(02:12):
plurality and thoughtful dialogue.
She extends thoseconversations through a podcast,
Poetry and Eden, where sheinterviews experts and shares insights
on philosophy, storytelling,and the human condition.
If you're drawn to her workthat challenges, heals, and expands
your perspective, Felicia'sworld is one worth stepping into.
(02:35):
That's a lot of amazing stuff.
Felicia, can you tell us alittle bit about yourself, how you
got into that work?
Yeah, absolutely.
How is my audio again?
It's.
It's good.
Yeah.
Okay.
Awesome.
I think the mic justdisconnected, so let me just reset
(03:02):
this up back.
But yeah, you.
The question was, how did Iget into this work?
Correct.
Is that correct?
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
So it's a.
It's a really good question, actually.
I have been writing poetry myentire life, and aside from writing
(03:24):
Reading books is somethingthat always filled me with inspiration.
I can remember as a younggirl, just, like, having so many
books by my bedside table inmy backpack, discussing books with
my parents, and eventuallyrealizing that one day I want to
(03:47):
create one of my own.
I didn't necessarily everthink I would write a poetry book,
to be honest.
The first book I wrote, whichis a manuscript that is still unpublished,
it's over 300 pages, and it'sa historical fantasy novel.
(04:08):
So my passion is actuallywriting historical fantasy.
I would love to get atraditional book deal for something
like this, but in the meantimeof figuring that out, I said, wow,
I've been writing poetry mywhole life.
It's my natural form of writing.
It gives me so much inspiration.
And so at the end of lastyear, I decided to put my first book
(04:34):
of poems out into the world.
Cool.
Can you talk about some ofyour creative leanings when you're
younger?
I know you said you like towrite poems and read books, but what
are some of the particularthings that stick out to you from
your childhood?
Yeah, I remember specificallybeing interested in authors, the
(05:04):
authors who wrote the book.
I also specifically rememberbeing interested in leaders who were
also authors in some way.
It was just Martin Luther KingJr. S birthday in January.
And I remember the first timeI read his speech or our teacher
(05:27):
read his speech.
I have a dream.
And I remember feeling, like,some chills, some unbelievable inspiration,
like, wow, this guy knows alot of stuff to write something like
this.
(05:48):
And I just remember readingthat one over and over and over again.
And there was this, like,contest to write something similar
to him.
And I remember every yearthere was this contest.
And, yeah, a few years in arow, I kept winning this one.
So I liked Martin Luther King Jr.
(06:10):
I stumbled upon Robert Frost'spoems because he's from New England,
so the Northeast.
And I stumbled upon some ofhis poems like Nothing Gold Can Stay
and this secret.
(06:32):
I think the secret is also him.
Sometimes I think it'sThoreau, who's also a New England
poet and philosopher.
But, yeah, Robert Froststopping by woods on a snowy evening
also popped up some years later.
And I remember, yeah, justbeing really inspired by his writing.
(06:59):
Maya Angelou changed my lifebecause I think up until running
into her writing, I only wasreading men and didn't realize it.
Yeah, that's society for you, right?
Right.
(07:19):
Yeah.
And I think my jaw dropped tothe ground when, like, she came up
in class, and I was like, whata poet who's a woman and black.
It was just like, it Justchanged my whole.
(07:42):
My whole life.
Who else?
I'd never read the HarryPotter books, actually, as a child
or a teen.
I read them in my adult life.
They're amazing.
They're full of magic.
But no, J.K. rowling was neveron my icon radar.
(08:07):
Yeah, I think that's a short,short list.
Yeah.
What were your essays aboutfor those contests or your poetry?
Yeah, I wish I could remember.
And I also wish I had them.
Like, we no longer have thechildhood home that I grew up in
(08:31):
and lost a lot of stuff intransit, but, yeah, you know, a 90s
kid.
We also don't have, like, theInternet that is existing today where
you can look anything up andit's probably saved into eternity.
So sometimes I feel sad about that.
(08:54):
Or then parts of me are like,maybe I should be happy about this.
In between time.
I grew up in between thisburst of technology and this life
of more analog.
But I believe they were poems.
(09:15):
It was like a poem and then anessay about the poem that I wrote.
Yeah.
I love the analog versus digital.
Like, I'm also in that spacewhere I grew up.
Right.
In the time where you knewlife before the Internet and then
(09:37):
life after the Internet.
And it's, like, completely different.
Right.
It's so interesting becausethe people who are growing up now
never knew the life before theInternet, which is interesting.
I guess it's like any othernew invention, like life before TV
or life before radio, or likebefore writing even is.
Like all these different timeperiods where technology kind of
(09:59):
shapes the way that the world goes.
Yeah.
I love that point you make.
You're totally right.
Yeah.
That could even be a whole TV series.
I'm sure there already is one.
We just gotta find where itis, right?
Maybe.
Maybe.
Did you continue the creativestuff growing up all the way until
(10:23):
you decided you wanted towrite this book in poetry?
Or did you let it go?
Or how did that work?
I've always been like, rightbrain, left brain, I would say.
And I've always loved to learn.
And in university I went instudying architecture.
(10:45):
That was what I originallywanted to study.
And I had this dream ofopening in, like, an interior design
studio.
This was my ambition for a lotof my life.
And then I took my firstclass, modern architecture.
I studied at Brown in Rhode Island.
Brown University in Rhode Island.
(11:07):
And wow, that was a nightmare.
That class, my goodness.
And getting all the suppliesto build the models was incredibly
expensive.
I was wondering, where iseverybody getting all the moolah
to pay for this?
A lot of rich people going Around.
I mean, Emma Watson was evenin my class.
I graduated with Emma Watson.
(11:28):
Oh, wow.
She was sitting behind methere in the class.
And you still didn't watch.
You didn't watch Harry Potter?
Exactly.
I didn't watch Harry Potter.
That's so funny.
I hadn't read them, but then Idid later on.
I think it was like that yearI decided to read it.
But yeah, like, this modernarchitecture class just kind of like
(11:49):
messed it all up for me, whichin a good way.
I felt like, whoa, this iscompletely unfair.
Like, we had a final exam, right?
I couldn't figure out, youknow, how to make my model as.
Look as good as the nextperson because, you know, I just
said, let me just get some thestuff I can afford and, you know,
make it look the way it needsto look.
(12:11):
And I think I stayed up likethat whole night and built the model.
I was so proud of myself.
And I don't know how everyoneelse got their model to this exhibition,
but I had to walk mine over.
Oh, my.
God.
Yeah.
And you know, all the otherclasses, I took them with.
With a bunch of friends.
(12:31):
But architecture was somewherewhere it was just a little bit, I
don't know, a different world,a little bit elite even.
Anyways, I had to walk mymodel over and a huge gust of wind
came around the corner rightwhen I was walking into that.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
Completely destroyed by myentire model.
(12:53):
And actually the exhibitionwas like, you bring it in and the
teacher walks around and thenhe grades it there in front of everyone.
And so this was a completenightmare because even with all the
photos I had on my, like,little BlackBerry of, like, what
it really looked like, theteacher refused to give me a grade
(13:15):
based off of the photos.
And he gave me a grade basedoff of the little sticks and Styrofoam.
Oh, God.
Yeah.
And I have an older brother.
He went to Villanova.
He studied economics andpolitical science.
He always wanted to be a lawyer.
He ended up being a lawyer.
And yeah, I was pretty devastated.
(13:37):
I couldn't figure out if I can.
Would continue with architecture.
And I remember him calling meand I was like, probably crying.
I. I think.
And he just was just like, whydon't you just, you know, I really
think you actually would like economics.
And I was, you know, he's myolder brother, so I was like, don't
(13:59):
you.
What are you saying?
I don't want.
And then like, secretly wentand took economics class and the
teacher was talking about theinvisible hand theory, and I had
way more Friends in thatclass, we all sat in the front and
(14:24):
I remember being completely inspired.
I was like obsessed even.
I just fell in love with economics.
I loved the math part, thetheory part, the application of it,
(14:44):
the way that you could tie itback to real life.
And ended up silentlyswitching from architecture to economics
and then minored in religiousstudies because I always like to
understand how people havebeliefs and like how their beliefs
(15:08):
shape their life.
And so yeah, I was economicsand religion and the, you know, must
have applied to bajillionjobs, I can't remember.
And the job I got wasinvestment banking analyst at Goldman
Sachs in between Houston,Texas and New York.
(15:31):
So nope, I didn't stick to the path.
My first job out, I mean I didthree summers of investment banking
internships and then yeah,that first job out was with Goldman.
What a nightmare.
(15:52):
Talking about not sleeping andreally a mismatch of values.
I woo.
I mean that's a whole otherepisode that we can go.
But yeah, I learned a lotabout myself and I learned a lot
about people and then again Iwanted to try something else.
(16:21):
I was completely burnt out.
I was actually like reallyshocked by the environment.
I think I was in complete shock.
I had never experiencedanything like that in my life.
And at that point Google wastouting unofficial model called don't
(16:46):
be evil.
I remember thinking, hey,maybe that's my ticket.
That seems like that reallyaligns with what I believe in.
And so, and I had a friendworking there at the time and he
was, you know, pretty stand upguy and, and had strong values too.
(17:12):
And he ended up referring meand I did all the bajillion interviews
and, and in the end, yeah,they hired me.
So I had two weeks to movefrom New York to San Francisco and
then started at Google inmarketing and spent eight years with
(17:38):
them until June of last year.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I know you're now inGermany, so how did you end up there?
Yeah, during my studies atBrown, me and one of my best friends
Sophia, we were taking German.
(18:01):
I took Spanish growing up andthen was looking for something else
and my friend Sophia was like,let's try German out.
We went to something calledKaffe Stunde Coffee Hour.
I remember thinking, man, likeit doesn't, this doesn't sound like
the, those movies with those,you know, bad guys speaking that
(18:25):
harsh German.
This sounds the stereotypical.
Yeah, so this sounds a littlebit different.
This has a little, littlejingle to it and yeah, and it was
complicated.
It kind of scratched adifferent part of my brain and yeah,
Sophia and I buddied up and westudied German and then we studied
(18:49):
abroad in Berlin.
And what was that?
I'm bad with the quick math.
That was like 13 years ago.
And yes, since then Berlinalways has had a piece of my heart.
And I then with Google, whileI, you know, I started in San Francisco,
(19:13):
I actually spent majority ofmy time with them out of the us Moved
to Singapore, actually oneyear in with them.
So was living in Singapore forthree years with them and then moved
to Berlin with them and wasfour years in Berlin with them.
(19:37):
And yeah, you know, you know,spent some time in Lisbon in the
past year.
But yeah, back in Berlin, itfeels, feels like home.
Can you talk about theinternational perspective?
(19:58):
So living in the US and thenmoving abroad, how that changed your
perspective on the world andyour creative work?
Yeah, oh yeah, totally.
You know, my parentsimmigrated to the US so they were
not born in America.
My mother is from Jamaica andmy dad is from Nigeria.
(20:23):
And so the Caribbean and West Africa.
They met in New York City.
My brother was born in NewYork City.
And then I was a surprise babythat came along two years later,
surprise, there's another one.
But they were very happybecause they had got a boy and they
got a girl.
(20:43):
And, you know, I think mostpeople really wish for this.
And, you know, I think someimmigrants really try to assimilate,
I think that's the word.
But like, maybe we were the opposite.
Like, my mom always has herJamaican accent, my dad has his Nigerian
accent.
(21:04):
Like, we grew up going toJamaica every year because it's right.
Hop and skip away.
Like, yeah, a big family, lotsof cousins, lots of tradition.
And so this kind of like,American way, like, was never really
(21:28):
something I clung to.
Like, I felt like, yeah, American.
I don't even know if it reallycame into my consciousness until
I left America, to be honest.
Which is interesting because Ithink it's the other way around for
(21:50):
most people.
They really stand by thisAmerican thing.
And I had the opportunity withGoogle to leave, and that was right
when Mr. Trumpy becamepresident for the first time.
And I took the opportunity.
(22:11):
And yeah, it's interesting,like, as a writer living outside
of the the US for all thesenow eight, nine years to have an
outside look in and still havethe context of what it means to,
(22:33):
quote, unquote, be American.
And I find myself latelybecause I have this substack newsletter
which is the same title as thebook Poetry in Eden.
And I never used to reallywrite so much about America or American
(22:56):
politics until recently, whereit Became very clear to me that actually
this is my unique point of view.
Being able to understandwhat's going on in America while
(23:18):
not still being there createssome type of.
I want to make a movie reference.
Some image just came into my mind.
I can't remember what film itis, but I can describe it and the
feeling of it.
Whereas it's like you'rewatching something happening and
(23:41):
you're there in the room witheveryone and it's maybe kind of like
you're a ghost.
You're there with everyone andthey're, you know, living their life,
doing their thing, and you cansee it, but they can't see you.
Sometimes it feels like this.
I don't have another way todescribe it.
(24:05):
You know, it's like an out ofbody experience.
Yeah.
While being in the room, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
And so this is what it feelslike often as an artist who's quote
unquote American, livingoutside of America.
(24:34):
And you said this is what mostof your poetry in Eden is about or
just what you're thinkingabout right now.
Oh, poetry in Eden?
No, poetry in Eden has nothingto do with any type of these geographic
(24:54):
locations.
It's a more spiritual andelevated philosophical poetry.
But the column I have thatcomes out every two weeks, which
are thought pieces, I findmyself writing more and more about
America.
(25:15):
Yeah.
Can you talk about the, themoment where poetry and Eden came
to you when you decided, okay,I'm gonna actually do this, I'm gonna
release this book.
Yeah, it was in December 2024.
(25:43):
I. I had a really great job at Google.
I always had really greatroles because I could analyze data
really well and I have a humanelement to me.
(26:06):
I never lost my empathy.
I think in the end that bit mein, in the tail.
I don't know the right Englishterm for it, but for a long time
my empathy was something thatactually helped my career.
And yeah, I didn't mindworking very hard.
(26:31):
These were, I think, threecharacteristics of my career.
And so, yeah, I, I'm also alittle bit of a health freak.
I love, you know, having myannual dentist checkup.
Never had a cavity, knock on wood.
And yeah, that's the mostimpressive feat that you've had.
(26:53):
I know, right?
And yeah, I like go to the doctor.
I work out a lot, I drink tonsof water.
Anyways, so I went for justlike a check in and my doctor was
really worried doing all thisblood drawing.
(27:15):
And then this is in Germany.
And yeah, it was just like 30minutes total meeting.
But at the end she realizedvery quickly, I think.
I don't know if it's like thisin the US or in other countries,
but burnout is an officialmedical issue in Germany.
(27:39):
And my doctor immediatelyrecognized I was burnt out.
That was in November of 2024.
And she said I had to stopworking that day.
Oh, wow.
(27:59):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I was like, what do you meanit's the end of the year?
Like, it's.
This is not possible.
She said, no, no.
She said, you know what's notpossible is you, like, you continuing
like this.
And that was a big shock for me.
(28:20):
I thought I could crunch andcrunch and crunch for the rest of
my life.
Thank God I stopped thatbecause I realized I don't like that.
I think I was just stuck insome cycle, some capitalistic cycle
performance.
And so anyways, In December of2024, when we were in Lisbon, Portugal,
(28:42):
in the sunshine, it was thefirst time in my life that, like,
I had taken more than twoweeks vacation and was just, like,
figuring out how to be andexist and just feel my way through
the day.
I made a timeline, and on thetimeline, I wrote, it's time to.
(29:08):
To publish your poems.
It's time to publish my poems.
And that's.
Yeah, that's when I decided,sorry, this is.
I said 2024, but it's 2023,because we're in 2020.
I was gonna say that was very,very fast timeline.
(29:31):
So, yeah, 2023.
And yeah, I made the timeline,like, showed it to my.
Some loved ones, and it waslike in a back of a history book
I was reading and, like,didn't look at it for a long time,
actually, and then publishedPoetry in Eden, you know, in 2024,
(29:56):
and stumbled across this bookand this timeline I had written back
then.
And I was like, whoa, whoa, my gosh.
Like, I did everything on thisthing, like, and I felt like, I don't
know, really grateful tomyself for making a pivot and quitting
(30:19):
Google and that way of life.
To live in a way that feelsgood and right and happy.
Yeah, A lot of people willlook at you, having worked at Google
and say that's like thepinnacle of a career.
(30:41):
But I think if you work toohard at anything, no matter what
it is, you're going to hitthat point where you're.
You're working too much.
Right.
And life is not meant to bedone that way.
I mean, biologically speaking,we were never meant to work like,
the way that we're working.
I don't know, 40 years in a row.
(31:03):
Without stopping to worryabout retirement and enjoying life
after you've already worked todeath and you're, like, already too
tired to do really anything.
Oh, that's an interesting.
I love that you say that.
Yeah.
I just think.
I mean, we're just meant ashumans, as a species.
(31:23):
We just decided within thelast, I don't know, like, 200 years
that this is the way thatwe're going to live it.
We're working 40 hours everyweek and not taking vacations, and
we're proud of our work.
Right.
It's like, okay, what else isthere to this life?
Is that what it's meant to be?
Yeah, exactly.
(31:46):
Exactly.
You're exactly right.
So when you were consideringyour poetry book, where were all
of the poems already writtenand you were just compiling them,
or was it a process of alsowriting before completing it?
(32:08):
It's a good question.
I would say maybe three of thepoems are poems I wrote as a teenager.
And so they mean a lot to me.
And I feel grateful thatsomehow between, again, this analog
(32:34):
to digital life, they survived.
Not sure how, but they did.
So three of them.
I think it's like three of them.
Maybe even only two I wrote asa teenager.
Some of them were written, ora version of them had been written
(32:58):
in my column.
Usually the format of mycolumn is like, thought piece and
then ends with an originalpoem by me.
And so some of the poems fromthat I put in the book, and then
(33:19):
the rest just came from the flow.
And I wanted to make somedistinct chapters as well.
So I thought the four elementswere really perfect way to categorize
the poems.
(33:42):
So the poems are.
Yeah, separated into four chapters.
Earth, wind, fire, water, and yeah.
The COVID designer is Ukrainian.
The interior design.
(34:04):
So chapter design.
She's from South Korea, livingin Seoul.
I think she recently moved toHong Kong, actually, interestingly
enough.
And the design to be able tofit all the publishing requirements
(34:27):
is a agency based in Portugal.
Oh.
So just like your life,there's an international aspect to
your book, which is awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
I love to cover as many viewsas possible.
(34:53):
I think that's one importantthing in creative work.
Not just to look at, you know,the people you're familiar with or
surrounding you or the peoplethat you know, but also to just go
out there and see what otherperspectives people have to offer.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
I always fear I'm.
(35:14):
I'm.
I could end up in an echo chamber.
And for me, that's anothertype of a matrix.
I need to rewatch that moviebecause I, yeah, I love to use that
analogy.
I love that film.
Yeah, there's interestinglyenough, if you're, if you pay close
(35:36):
enough attention or if youhear people talk about it, there's
so many philosophical elementsto that series and it's just not
what they're advertising thesemovies to be.
Right.
It's like they're advertisingit to be like these cool action movies.
But obviously there's likedeeper meaning throughout all the
films.
(35:56):
Yeah, totally.
I think, you know, somethingabout film is like they're creating
stories, but I sometimes Ifeel like they're like, in terms
of like quantum reality orsomething like this.
(36:18):
I think maybe some of the bestfilm directors and writers maybe
are even pulling something outof some quantum reality and that's
why it affects people so muchand shapes their perspective.
(36:40):
But most of my favorite moviesare love, love stories anyway.
The Matrix is an outlier.
I think one interesting idea,I think it was Rick Rubin in his
book the Creative Pursuitwhere he talked about all ideas are
out there and they're justlooking for a vessel to find the
(37:02):
way to get out into the world.
So they're existing in somecapacity out in the ether.
Right.
And we as artists and creativepeople are just using that inspiration
from what's already existingand just giving it an avenue to be
spread farther.
Oh, I like that.
It reminds me of ElizabethGilbert's book Big Magic and she
(37:31):
says that inspiration is likethe tale of a cat.
Like, and it's like not thesweetest imagery because I really
don't think you should grabthe tail of a cat.
But she does that.
If you don't grab it, it willjust pass you right by on to the
next person.
So it's, it's.
(37:51):
I love that you bring this one.
I hadn't heard, heard that ofhim and I don't, I haven't read that
book yet, so maybe I will.
Oh, it's very good.
It's not like a strictly storydriven or like through line book.
It's just random thoughts oncreativity just like spouted out.
(38:16):
They're not really organizedin a way that you would expect the
flow of a book to be.
They're just like, you canturn to any page and figure out how
this applies to your creativejourney in this moment.
Oh, cool.
I like that.
Yeah, I'll check it out.
Give me a reminder of the name later.
Yeah, I did read Big Magicmany years ago, so I think it's come
(38:38):
up a few times recently and Ithink it's time to revisit it Because
I remember being very inspiredby it.
Ooh, okay, great.
So you, you'll read that oneand I'll read the other one?
Yeah.
Nice.
Can you talk about the processof deciding that you're going to
(38:59):
make the poetry book and thenthe actual release of it?
So how did you go from okay, Iknow I'm going to do this to actually
getting it?
I know you worked with a lotof people in that process to.
Oh, yeah, I even still feeloverwhelmed, like thinking about
(39:20):
it.
Still have no idea how thisbook is out.
No, I'm just kidding.
Yeah.
What's the process?
There's a lot of steps.
I'm not even sure I couldsummarize them.
Let's see.
Or if you were gonna do ananother book, what would that process
look like?
What do you think the stepswould be to go from idea to complete
(39:43):
a project?
I hope I have a book agent and a.
And a deal for the next ones.
But yeah, I can do it.
The process, basically youneed the manuscript, of course.
So the fully edited, polishedwork of what will be inside the book
(40:08):
then.
And this is the selfpublishing, so putting the book out
into the world on your ownaccord process.
So yeah, manuscript iscomplete, then it needs to fit specific
requirements.
So that means being very clearon what format it will be published
(40:33):
in.
Will it be published as an ebook?
Will it be published as a paperback?
Will it be published as hard copy?
Will it be published as all three?
For me, I don't like hard copypoetry books.
That's a very specific thingto me.
So I have an ebook in a paperback.
(40:56):
So these are the two formatsthat I chose.
And then I said, okay, ebookin paperback.
Like there are specific specsthat cover the spine and the back
cover need to be a specific way.
And the back cover also needsto be written and was written by
(41:22):
me.
And so I worked with thisdesign team in Portugal to ensure
that the COVID was finalizedin a way that I felt really suited
my soul and that the spine andback cover also stood out in this
(41:47):
way.
I got an endorsement for theback cover.
I think that this always ishelpful for people picking up the
book.
The endorsement is actuallynot even like some book reviewer
magazine or an author oranything like that related to writing.
My endorser is a sustainableluxury fashion brand, so that is
(42:16):
also really unique.
And it's Pakistani, German,Meher Kikalia.
That's the name on the back ofthe book with the endorsement.
And once those elements werefinalized, then the specs are made
to ensure that all the bordersand the page numbers and the font
(42:36):
size and the colors andeverything meets the requirements
of all the distribution platforms.
And there's tons of.
From Barnes and Nobles toWaterstone in the UK to Amazon to
Foyles to the list goes on and on.
(42:58):
My book is available globally,so there's actually tons of distribution
channels.
And so I this again, NunoDesigns, it's there inside of the
book.
Helped me make sure all thespace specs were industry standard.
Then the book is ready to beuploaded and I did a pre order timeline
(43:27):
where people could pre orderthe book.
And then the launch of thebook for me was the end of November.
And yeah, it launched in theend of November.
Somehow it was number threeglobally in the general poetry category
for 30 days.
I don't know who the heck waslooking for.
(43:50):
That's good marketing, huh?
And yeah, I don't know.
It's not a lucrative business,I'll tell you that.
But it feels nice.
And I realize I don't needmuch in life anyway.
And is that the whole process?
Let me see if I missed anything.
Yeah, Tracking everything andall the dashboards and the marketing.
(44:15):
I'm still doing the marketing.
Maybe I'll do the marketingfor the rest of my life.
Isn't that crazy?
But yeah, I think that's the process.
I hope that answers it.
Oh yeah.
So every book that you seeanywhere, there's so many elements
(44:37):
that go into that thing.
It's not just like a writerwrites the thing and it's like immediately
ready.
There's a million steps.
Right.
And marketing is just evenjust a very small part of that, that
very large process.
Can you talk about some of thestuff that you've done to market
your book?
(44:58):
Yeah, I requested a review byPublishers Weekly, which is known
as the Book Bible, the BookBible magazine.
It's been around since 1892sometimes and some 18 something.
(45:20):
It's been around a long time.
Publishers Weekly.
And yeah, I hadn't.
You know, this could go really bad.
You know, as a debut author,they grade your book cover, they
grade the editing, they gradethe overall marketing copy, they
grade illustrations and thenthey give a review of the book.
(45:47):
Could have been a really badreview, but they gave me all A's.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, I got a B in editing.
Yeah, I know.
I got a B in editing.
And the review was exactlywhat I wanted people to take away
from the book.
(46:08):
So this became one marketing element.
I still haven't received thehard copy magazine, but because the
review was so good, I Was thenin the January.
So last month's PublishersWeekly magazine.
I've had a lot of peopleemailing me, some people finding
me on Instagram and findingthe book in this way.
(46:31):
So this has been aninteresting marketing channel.
I do a poem of the week on myInstagram and each of the poems are
now, of course, from thePoetry in Eden book.
And since I've gotten intolike modeling now, I have a lot of
photo shoots and I have a lotof photos.
(46:52):
So in that way I can curate myfeed to show this kind of aesthetic
while also sharing the poems.
So the photography of me isthere with the poem of the week.
And yeah, I, you know, want tocontinue every form of marketing
(47:19):
that I can.
Had some Amazon ads running aswell, had someone find me also on
Instagram from this and saidthey loved the book and yeah, I'll
continue.
It's a lot to be done, a lotof live readings.
(47:40):
This has been good.
I sent some copies to influencers.
No, not a single one of themposted it.
So that was a little bit.
I mean, even I sent one allthe way to Singapore and that was
a really big ticket shipping cost.
And I don't even know if sheReddit but tried the influencer strategy.
(48:05):
This one didn't go so go so well.
But that's all right.
And yeah, more to come.
Yeah.
I think the important thing isthat you're trying things because
you.
No one really knows what'sgoing to work.
There's a lot of luck in someelements and then there's a lot of
(48:27):
timing.
You know, there's.
There's so many things that gointo marketing that you have no real
control over.
So I think the important thingis to just try as many things that
you're comfortable with aspossible, as long as there's some
sort of strategic element to it.
Oh, I like that.
Yeah, I think you're rightbecause that.
(48:49):
Who knows?
That book review could havegone wrong if.
If they didn't like it.
It could have been sent tosomebody else that was reviewing
it and that could have beenlike the.
Between an A and, you know, B,like, so you never know.
Totally, totally.
And that person could behaving a bad day and be like, oh,
no, I'm just gonna doeverything bad.
(49:10):
It's just like everything is acrapshoot, I think.
So it's just being intentionalabout willing to be marketing your
book all the time.
Yeah, I like that.
Yeah, it's a nice perspective.
I've been in the weeds, sothat's refreshing perspective.
(49:31):
Yeah.
Can you describe how you planto get your historical fiction into
like traditional publishingsince you've done self publishing,
why you'd want to make thatchange and what you plan to do to
(49:51):
get that done?
Yeah, I want to be a career author.
So I think the best is to havean agent.
And yeah, this takes time, I think.
J.K. rowling, for instance,what did she query?
Like over 250 people and onlyone came back with a yes.
(50:13):
And if that one didn't giveher the yes, we would have never
all seen Harry Potter.
So like I really should, youknow, put more time into this, you
know, between running thesocial media myself, writing the
column, doing some, you know,side works, I haven't put enough
(50:37):
energy into querying.
But I do have a big tracker.
And yeah, the process for thatis to literally use the world wide
web to find an agent that islooking for the type of book that
I have.
(50:57):
So they would need to beinterested in historical fiction
and they would need to be opento unsolicited queries.
A lot of agents close theirdoors halfway through the year, so
(51:20):
that's also makes it pressing.
Some, yeah, are a lot of.
Yeah, so it's really a matchmaking process and then some luck.
Like they must get thousandsand thousands of people emailing
book ideas to them and yeah,they choose one and it has.
(51:44):
Even if the book is great, ifthere's another book on their list
that it feels too similar towhat's being pitched, then maybe
that's the reason why oneperson's getting rejected.
So it's a little bit of a crapshoot.
But yeah, you know, withauthors, like sometimes they just
(52:05):
die with their, their books.
Right.
Their manuscripts unpublishedand then it's like a sad thing to
say, but you know, it's apossibility too, I hope.
I don't know.
And why did you decide thatyou wanted to get this traditionally
published?
(52:26):
Yeah, because I think thatthis series could go on forever and
that it can change the nextgeneration's way of existing and
heal some parts of the world.
Like on one side the story isincredibly good in my perspective
(52:48):
and I'll give the summary in a second.
And then on the second sideit, you know, if it's a six book
series, if I were to selfpublish the first book, according
to most publishing law, then Iwould need to self publish all of
them on my own.
So the best is to get someonefrom the start to publish them because
(53:13):
then they need to publish thewhole series and I think that's the
best that would Be the best.
And so, yeah, the book rightnow is called Icarus.
That's the title I have.
And the first book is a boyfrom North Korea and a girl from
East Berlin during the ColdWar are dreaming of freedom and two
(53:40):
portals appear to them andthey both immediately walk through
them.
One portal leads to.
To a quote unquote paradise,and the other portal leads to an
ice cold punk rock underworld.
They both must get throughthese places before the actual devil
takes the most potent hopeaway from the boy, because the boy
(54:03):
has the most potent hope inthe world.
But unfortunately, by the endof the first book, the actual devil
does take this most potenthope away from the boy.
And now the devil has theability to retell history, past,
present, and future.
And so that's the end of bookone, and then book two.
The actual devil is rewritingWorld War II.
(54:26):
Very interesting.
That's just a sneak peek forwhen you get that book published.
So hopefully if you keep upwith Felicia, you'll find out what
happens, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Well, I know you have to go.
It's late over there.
So we'll wrap it up with a fewfinal questions.
(54:49):
Do you know anyone personallywho also runs a standout creative
business, and what do they doto stand out?
Yeah, I know a bunch ofpeople, but actually, people in the
wine industry have been.
(55:11):
This was like the first thingthat popped into my mind.
Friends in the wine industry, Somalias.
And I don't know, this hasreally been enticing me, the way
their dedication, theirknowledge about the.
The craft and the process.
This for me is really stand out.
(55:32):
I've been feeling reallyinspired by my sommelier friends
and the natural winebusinesses that they're running.
That's the first time I'veheard that.
So that's kind of interesting.
That reminds me of Jira Dreamsof Sushi.
I don't know if you've seenthat one, but that's a very detailed
(55:52):
perspective of the craft ofone of the most famous sushi makers
in the world.
Wow.
It sounds familiar, but I'dlove to check it out.
Yeah, definitely check thatone out.
If you haven't seen it, whatis one extraordinary book, podcast,
documentary, or tool that'smade the biggest impact on your journey?
(56:16):
Yeah.
On writing by Stephen King.
That helped me finish the.
My novel.
I think I need to reread it again.
It appeared actually on mydesk at work in Singapore after I
told a colleague that I wastrying to finish my book.
(56:37):
And I had never read a book sofast than that.
On writing Book.
And shortly after finishingit, I finished the first draft, of
course course of my novel.
It changed my life on Reddit.
Yeah.
By Stephen King.
I'm in the middle of it andthat just gives me a reminder to
(56:59):
finish it.
I'm.
I'm listening to the audiobookversion of it.
Oh, yeah.
But it's.
It's very good.
I just need to get down andfinish it.
I'm switching between a bunchof books right now.
One of them is on Play,interestingly enough.
That has nothing to do with this.
But it's just an interestingidea to look into how Play affects
(57:20):
all of us.
I like that.
Yeah.
Like inner child and.
Yeah.
And it's one thing that helpswith the survival of species.
Interestingly enough, becauseyou learn how to interact with others
(57:42):
in a way that shows thatyou're not threatening and you wanna,
you know, this is an elementof fun and play.
Right.
Versus always being on theattack or on the run.
Right.
Interesting.
Oh, I like that.
Wow, you sound like you havethe best book recommendation.
(58:06):
Give me one second, I'll pullup the title.
I forget exactly offhand, butit is called Play how how it Shapes
the Brain, Opens theImagination and Invigorates the Soul.
And that's by Dr. Stuart Brown.
(58:31):
Oh, I like that a lot.
Thank you.
Of course.
What do you think makes acreative business stand out and what
is one piece of advice thatyou give based on your experience
to help people stand out?
Marketing.
Marketing.
Marketing, huh?
Yeah, I think that's what.
That in the end is what makesthings stand out.
(58:54):
Right.
Marketing.
Copy the branding like everyOlympus and being willing to just
push it with high quality andpush it to the limit.
I think in this day and age,that's the secret sauce.
Not so secret.
Takes a lot of work.
Yeah.
That's one interestingperspective that I think comes from
(59:14):
your like financial andbusiness background.
Because a lot of artists andcreative are opposed to the idea
of marketing.
Even though marketing is justa way to get your thing in front
of people who want to consumeyour thing.
So it's not necessarily a bad thing.
It's just like how do youposition yourself to do that?
(59:35):
I can understand that.
This hesitancy, if that's a word.
Yeah.
It can make.
It can feel icky.
Even this poem of the week, asmuch as I love the idea of it, every
time I have to post it, I'mlike, oh, another photo of me and
my poem.
Like, you know, it can feel alittle bit icky, all this self promotion
(01:00:01):
and marketing.
But yeah, it's necessary.
Yeah, I mean, it's the onlyreal way to get your work out into
the world.
And if you want your stuff tohave an impact on as many people
as possible, that's the bestway to do it, is to figure out how
to make marketing somethingthat's exciting and fun and playful,
(01:00:23):
that element of play again,into using that in a creative way,
since you're a creative personto get in front of the people who
want it or need it.
Yeah, you're right.
I like that too.
Can you give the listeners achallenge so they can take right
(01:00:44):
now to start standing out?
Sure.
For the next two weeks, aslong as it's safe to do it.
Whatever invitation someonegives, you have to say yes.
(01:01:10):
And I think they'll besurprised where this leads them and
how it pushes their boundaries.
Sometimes I do this for acouple of days and I grew up doing
dance, for example.
I could give an example.
I grew up doing dance and thenI stopped for many years and I was
(01:01:35):
doing this kind of yes challenge.
I like to do it when I'm insomewhere new and a friend said,
hey, I'm gonna do this splitspecific class.
Do you want to come?
And I was in my yes kind of week.
So I said yeah.
And I didn't think I wouldlike it.
And it's literally the dance class.
(01:01:56):
Like one year later, I'm, I'mstill doing and obsessed with this
like heels dance class.
So yeah, it's a maybe sounds alittle bit like a strange challenge,
but as long as it's safe andyou know, always respect your own
(01:02:18):
boundaries.
But I say try the two week yes challenge.
Yeah.
Sometimes you don't knowwhat's gonna happen until you accept
ideas into your life.
So sometimes you have to sayyes even though it's uncomfortable
as long as, like you said, itfits within your idea of safety and
(01:02:43):
you know, something that youfeel good doing.
Yeah, exactly.
Awesome.
Well, Felicia, this has beenreally awesome talking to you.
Can you tell people where theycan keep up to date with your work
and find out when your novelcomes out?
Yeah, absolutely.
(01:03:04):
For all things about my work,please Visit my website feliciamu.com
Again, that's Felicia iamu.comF E L I C I A I Y a m u.com and my
(01:03:24):
all of my things are there.
From poetry and Eden, the book to.
To the podcast to my bi weeklycolumn to my modeling portfolio,
to Icarus, the novel.
Everything can be found there.
And if anyone wants to workwith me one on one or contact me,
(01:03:44):
there's also a way to dothat@feliciamu.com awesome.
Well, yeah.
Thanks again, Felicia forcoming on.
It's been a pleasure and I'msure we could have talked for a lot
longer, but it's getting lateover there.
Yeah.
I'm so happy to to spend thistime with you.
I feel grateful.
And also, you know, check outmy Instagram also feliciamu and I
(01:04:11):
look forward to being in touch.
All right, thanks again.
Bye Bye.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of the Standout Greetings.
If you're feeling stuck, let'schat and see how we can help you
start standing out instead ofburning out.
You can sign up for a freestrategy call@thestandoutcreatives.com
(01:04:32):
if you want to keep up to datewith everything I'm working on, including
interviews, essays andupcoming projects, head to standoutcreativebusiness
substack Hub.
And if you have any thoughtson this episode or just want to check
that, you can follow me onInstagram Standout Creative Business.
Thanks again for tuning in andas always, lean into your creativity
(01:04:55):
and curiosity.
I'll see you again on the next episode.
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