December 9, 2023 • 49 mins
Santa Media Bros 2023 OFFICIALLY kicks off a month of Christmas themed Cult Cinema Saturday episodes with Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas! This Cult Classic has become a holiday staple for most households, but IT ALMOST DIDN'T GET MADE! Find out what happened plus our thoughts on this timeless film within today's episode!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Supermedia Bros. Podcast is a foundingmember of the Odd Pods Media Network.
(00:27):
Welcome to the Supermedia Brose Podcast,where two best friends give comedically informative takes
on movies, music, pro wrestling, and more. I'm Richie Devan.
This is Santa Media Bros. Twentytwenty three and it's episode three hundred and
three Cult Cinema Saturday. We're talkingabout Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas,
directed by Henry Sellick. It wasn'tTim Burton, nope, but Tim Burton
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wrote it right like he wrote thescript. The story came from Tim Burton,
the screenplay was from Caroline Thompson.You write the music pretty sure he
didn't. What the fuck did hedo? Richie? Conceptually speaking, this
is his idea, but a slewof other sons of bitches made this thing
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come to life. How did youfeel about this movie when you first saw
it? And hell, when didyou first see this movie? Oh?
God, okay, so the firsttime I watched it. It's very unfair
to say. Weirdly enough, Idon't think it was on Disney Channel at
the time, because I mean,history tells us that it's always been a
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Disney movie. As it is,but for the longest time, it wasn't
distributed as such. It was Touchstone. I might be wrong. Somebody older
than me might say, no,that didn't happen you. You were just
a kid with a bad memory.I want to say it was on ABC
Family. There's a very big possibilitythat happened because ABC Family. That's a
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Disney chance at Buena Vista thing.Is it okay? Because it was like
the twenty five Days of Christmas moviemarathon that they do every every year.
Absolutely, And I didn't even watchthe full thing. It's I walked in
on it in my bedroom. MyTV upstairs was much smaller than the living
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room one, so I had allmy gamings all done downstairs, but I
ended up going upstairs to just hangout and it was on. If memory
serves me, it was whenever Sallywas stitching herself up after like the fall
and everything. And I remember likewalking in and I'm looking at it and
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I knew of the movie, likeI saw the scenery and I recognized what
it was. But I was like, the fuck is this? Like I
knew that it was a nightmare beforeChristmas, but I was like, isn't
this like a kid's movie, whoWhat is going on? And I was
enthralled by it. I watched therest of it there, if I had
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to guess, maybe eight years oldish, you know, something like that.
First time I watched it in fullthough wasn't until like another year or
two. But fuck, that absolutelytracks with your age, because probably right
around that time was the tenth anniversaryof the film, because it was like
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two thousand and three, around liketwo thousand and three, two thousand and
four for you right roughly maybe probably, yeah, so because the movie came
out in October of nineteen ninety three, and dude, like I was there
when it came out. I vividlyremember watching this like religiously in my family's
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video store whenever I was a kid. I can smell the inside of that
store and remember having like pizza Hutdelivered to the mother fucker for our whole
family and just grabbing a slice ofpizza and watching this movie a lot because
it was so new, and Ithought it was so fucking fascinating, like
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I had seen like California raisins andlike a bunch of stop motion and a
bunch of like, you know,shit like that. However, when this
came out, there was nothing likeit to me, and I say,
they don't make this shit like theyused to, because they really don't make
it like they used to. Ithink the closest thing recently that I have
seen similar to this, and likenot being a Tim Burton thing, Phil
(04:38):
Tippet's Mad God, which was athirty year journey. I've not seen this.
I'll look into it. Yeah,please do. It's great. It's
on shutter it's a it's Phil Tippet'sthe guy that did some of the effects
work on Jurassic Park. This islike a stop motion like I don't want
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to spoil much about it. It'sfucking fantastic, but definitely check it out.
It's so funny that this movie,though, got a resurgence years and
years later, because like, asa kid, it was this weird thing
of like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know of this movie.
It's like urban legend, you know, like it got popular after I
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was already an established child. Soit was almost like this murky like when
did this movie come out? AndI was like, I don't know,
like three years ago, Like no, no, not at all. Yeah,
that's how that's how cold films work. Everybody out there that's like word
of mouth. Yeah, popular,like didn't didn't get a lot of love
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at first, And then there's somethat are just instantly like instant cult classics.
But like this movie, it's likethe merchandising in the home release itself
and people watching it on physical homemedia and costs playing. And hell,
I think some bootleg Marge even probablyfucking resurrected this. That checks out as
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well, because I remember working atthe Dollar Story at one point, motherfucker,
we had like Jack Skellington shirts.Do you remember the black one with
his face on it? Oh?How could I fucking forget my brother in
Christ? I had that shirt formany years. Ask me if it had
a Disney tag? It did not. Yeah. Did it even have like
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the imprint on the back of theshirt? No, on the price tag?
No, No, that was not. That was not a trademarked shirt.
And it's funny to say that becauseDisney themselves, Like, we'll get
into the movie proper like a littlebit here and there, because like I
think everybody out there listening to thisepisode has seen this movie. And if
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you haven't get out from underneath therock, that you've been living under the
fact that it took Disney well overten years to be like, you know,
maybe we should have put our nameon this motherfucker to begin with.
And it's really weird, Like therewas so much that went on into obviously
the making of it, the writingprocess, everything, but just the actual
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distribution part. Like this almost didn'teven get released after it was nearly finished.
And even though you know, Ijoked about like, oh so wait,
if Tim Burton didn't write it,didn't do the music, didn't blah
blah blah blah blah blah, whatdid he do? Honestly, Like,
yeah, conceptually it was his,but really it was I don't want to
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like minimize his contributions to this project, but is it fair to say that
it was really just a marketing ploy? Yeah by Disney, Yeah for sure,
because if you look at the timein which it came out, I
don't think this movie and again Ireally fullheartedly mean this. During the time
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that it came out, Tim Burtonjust had a successful run from like Peewee's
Big Adventure Beetlejuice Batman was working onBatman Returns concurrently, Like with this film,
I don't think the Nightmare Before Christmasbecomes as cult classic as it does
without Tim Burton's name being attached atthe top. So let me ask you
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this then, as an almost reversequestion to that statement, how different do
you think it would be if hedid right and directed? You've seen gorbs
Bride, right, Okay, fairenough. I think that's what happens,
Like, that's what happens when youget to direct your own even Frank and
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Weenie, which that's the thing,They're not as good and special to me
as a Nightmber before Christmas, butstill excellent films. And I think that's
largely to do with the fact thatthe people that worked on this movie had
their own personal shit attached to it. Like if you think about how Danny
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Elfman has talked about singing as JackSkellington, like writing the music and lyrics
and composition and shit he was writingabout himself as kind of wanting out of
the spotlight because he was growing tiredof being a singer and just the whole,
the whole thing I mean. DannyElfman famously is is Slash was the
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singer of Oingle Boingo, which thatband is a cult band itself, where
like you know, who they areif you know who Danny Elfman is,
like you know who Oingle Boingo is? But I can guarantee you I can
ask like twenty people who's Oingle Boingoand maybe half of them know? Maybe
Yeah, dude, I'm thinking aboutlike my generation. I don't think maybe
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one out of fifty, you know. Like, and that's just an age
thing, you know, that's nobody'sfault. But no, it was very
niche, you know, and hecomes into help make this movie that,
by all intents and purposes, shouldhave been even more niche like, and
(10:18):
that's the thing. One of myfavorite Christmas movies ever. Okay, one
of my favorite movies period. Butthey even admitted whenever they were making this
movie and everything, and the firstlittle test screening was with a bunch of
children, and they were almost confused, like they didn't know what to make
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of this, Like the studio didn'tthink that it was going to even be
a hit, because you do watchit and it's kind of like, well,
okay, who is this for exactly? Is this a kid's movie?
Is it not? What like reallythink about it? Okay, it's rated
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something that Disney wanted no part ofat the time. Why is it PG?
Are you asking me like why Ithink it's PG? Are you asking
like legitimately, why is it ratedPG? Legitimately? Because Okay, the
whole like self stitching thing. Okay, fair enough, I guess, But
there's really nothing explicit in this moviewhatsoever. PG doesn't necessarily mean explicit that
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PG is parental guidance suggested like youwouldn't leave a young child that is extremely
impressionable or probably has nightmares that comeeasy to him. You probably wouldn't leave
him with this movie. Because Isay this thirty years removed from the initial
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release. When I first watched this, I was seven years old. I
was also watching a nightmare on ElmStreet. At seven years old, I
knew what fiction was. I knewwhat was real and what was not real.
However, give it to a sevenyear old with a very overactive imagination
and who was easily frightened. Thereare some visuals in this movie that I
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could see giving people nightmares, Like, Okay, Boogeyman is nightmare fuel on
his own, Like he's just he'slike a baghead character. Right. Yeah,
Then in the opening this is Halloween, like you have some of the
characters who are like that, I'myou know, I'm the creature under your
stairs, and like that whole fuckingsequence is like, oh, okay,
there's some shit here that looks grotesqueand macabre, and I love that shit.
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But I absolutely understand like parental guidancesuggested being a thing for this,
and it was the nineties, likeearly nineties. I know Disney was sitting
there like Renaissance era. Hey we'vegot a little Mermaid, we've got Beauty
and the Beast, we've got Aladdin, We're about to release the Lion King.
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Do we really want to put ourDisney stamp on this? So that's
the whole touchdown pictures thing, that'sthe whole who is this for? Probably
preteen teenagers young adults like you knowwhat I mean, Like that's probably it's
four But even though, like Iunderstand, it was the nineties, but
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I also got to throw a littlebit of shade at Disney because y'all bitches
were fucking real quick to say,look, we we think this might be
able to make money and might not, but we're gonna distance ourselves from it
now thirty years removed. It's like, no, no, we love this,
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Come here, Come here, baby, come here, come here,
puts their arm around it, like, hey, you can have some deser.
You can sit at the table withus, and you can have some
dessert. You can, you knowwhat I mean? Like, Sally,
you're a Disney princess. Fuck you, I know that's it's y'all ag shit
for that, Like, are youfucking kidding me? Some jank ass bullshit
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right there? Man, I gottaagree, it's some fun shit. It
really is some fun shit to pullon a movie like this. Disney's not
gonna be like, hey, wewere wrong. Disney's gonna be like,
no, we always love this movie. They do that with everything though.
And the thing is is like fromfrom all of the reports, like they
were concerned about okay, will kidslike this, they were nervous about it.
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They were apprehensive, But in termsof like test footage for the executives
and everything, everybody said from dayone, No, this is actually incredible.
This is a great movie. Wejust don't know what to do with
it. I think Hot Topic knewwhat to do with it. Oh dude,
hot Topic. They understood the fuckinguh the mission here. Yeah,
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they understood the assignment, They understoodthe target audience, which cause like,
think about this, like, forme at least, Yeah, how weird
it was to have always loved thismovie and then come across people that were
like, like you were like theyhad to discover it later on, which
obviously, like you're younger than Iam, but like seeing people my age
go into hot topic during Homecoming seasonthree and seeing them put out like,
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hey, here's some small merch that'scool. Two thousand and four rolls around,
Oh, there's a little bit more. Okay, graduates high school two
thousand and five rolls around. Thenyou get like we're getting into the air
of like Nightmare before Christmas revisited,where it's all these bands covering the music
from this movie and you're just like, obviously, the influence and the culture
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has always been there for this movie. The fact that everybody and their mother
knew this before the fucking studio thatmade it is bullshit. Like I'm not
saying we had we were bullshit forthat, but like fuck Disney for that
for real, dude, dude,And just think like, what if Tim
Burton didn't sell the rights to Disney, What if he was able to bring
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into Warner Brothers. How different historywould be you know, like I wonder
how much like you. You definitelybrought up a great point. They're like,
how much darker would it have been? Because like, think about how
Warner Brothers gave this man free reignwith like Beetlejuice and fucking Batman, especially
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Batman returns. Holy shit, that'smy favorite of the two Burton Batman saying
actually he got real dark with thatshit. So I I know this was
like a kid's quote kids thing,or like he was, you know,
wanting to portray it. It wouldstop motion, which again is a lost
ar formal on its own, butlike imagine that movie being very dark and
then kids be like, hey,I want to see this, and like
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the it's like the whole thing thathappened whenever South Park came out, and
like the movie came out. Mhm. Believe this or not, people
were actually at the box office withtheir kids taking in and see this and
not knowing fuck all what they wereabout to take them in to see.
Did they not see the not eventhe show. I'm talking like the movie
poster itself. Nobody fucking cared.They saw animation and like, oh this
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is going to theaters. I cantake my kids, because there are parents
out there that have no clue what'shappening, like cartoon Wise, but they
see a poster and they're like,hell yeah, I can take my kid
to see this in the theater.Same probably would have applied here. This
movie didn't bomb, but it alsodidn't do that great, so I think
again, the perception, I thinkis what hurt it initially. However,
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it found its footing on home release, and it's not a sprint, it's
a marathon because we're sitting here intwenty twenty three talking about a movie they
came out in nineteen ninety three,right, which we'll get into the movie
proper, but we're going to takea break and we'll be right back.
Once upon a time, boring,It was the best of times. It
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was the you got that right?What's your problem? We want new stories?
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(18:22):
at ever Trending pot so getting intothe movie proper, the motherfucker made one
hundred and one point two million atthe box office altogether, which I think
this is also from re releases andyeah, probably probably home release too.
I was about to say, becauselike, I think it only made half
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of this it on It's an Iwas about to say, because I feel
like if it costs twenty four millionand it made one hundred million in nineteen
ninety three, I feel like that'sa pretty good little run there. Yeah,
Because I mean, well, ifyou think about it, the movie
has it was a sleeper hit,like it really was like h classic,
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Yes, sleeper hit at the boxoffice. Yes, it definitely made like
fifty million like when it first hadcome out. But if you think about
how many reissues and like re releasesit's had, because it's had one,
God it's it had one in six, seven, eighth nine, and then
again in twenty twenty, and thenagain this year. It keeps increasing.
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They're basically doing what James Cameron isdoing with fucking Titanic and Avatar. It's
like, hey man, just keepfucking spewing this bitch out, which they
I don't blame them. You canpump this fucker out at Halloween and in
Christmas every year and guess what peoplewill turn out and droves and kind of
like the whole Avatar and Titanic thing. I can't even be mad because I
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mean, shit, if if youkeep re releasing this and it keeps making
money, then why wouldn't you Probablydoesn't cost you that much to re release
something. No, not at all. I mean because they don't have any
marketing to earn back, is whatit is. Like, they have the
money to fucking blow. So Ican't I can't be mad, like fuck
it, right. So the movieitself deals with a character named Jack Skellington
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who is the Pumpkin King of HalloweenTown. And to make a long story
short, because I don't want togo beat by bead, he's tired of
the same shit every year. Basically, like because if you think about how
Christmas and Easter and many other holidaysare, there's longevity, you know,
traditionally there's longevity. Halloween is alwayskind of like regarded by people that just
(20:38):
don't like Halloween as like that's oneday you're fucking not for bro, if
you love Halloween, every day ismotherfucking Halloween okay, sure. So Jack
Skellington is tired of the same fuckingthing every year and he's longing for something
more. So while wandering in thewoods, he comes across like all these
(21:02):
doors, and I thought that waslike a really neat visual how every one
of these doors were on a treeand you could tell what holiday it was,
Like there was an Easter one,there was a Christmas one, Saint
Patrick's Day, Thanksgiving, Independence Day, like all these randoming holidays. I
love how easy to digest that is. By the way, Yeah, me
too. I'm a big visual storytellerperson. Like I love a good like
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Tarantino script, I love a goodKevin Smith dialogue film. However, the
little art fucker and me just loveswhen I don't need anything spoken to me.
I can just look at it andbe like, hey, I get
this. You would never want todo this because the music in this movie
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is classic, but the story issimple enough to follow to where you could
watch it on mute and you couldprobably decide for maybe eighty five percent of
the movie. Hell, I thinkyou could probably just watch it with the
music only. Yeah, just asan actual like, just listen to the
soundtrack and there's some great songs there. This whole soundtrack fucks like so hard,
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Like when he gets to Christmas Town, what's this? Like that is
I say that is, like,hey, that's the musical number, but
like this is Halloween is also themusical number. Hey, making Christmas is
There's a lot of good shit inhere. But I fucking I love when
he gets there to Christmas Town,because I mean, wouldn't you have like
the same reaction if you all,like if you saw this shit for the
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first time, Like, think aboutthe first time that you ever. I
say this phrase because it's very childlikeand I could picture a kid saying it
just like this, Remember the firsttime you quote saw Christmas? Yeah,
do you know what I mean?M Like the first time we all saw
Christmas. It's a commercial. It'sthe Christmas lights on houses. It's the
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little construction paper projects you did inschool, right, It's the cartoons,
it's the television specials. It's thefire in the fireplace, a little glass
like one inch tall figurines that yourgreat great grandma had out with like the
fucking cotton all over the table tosimulate snow. Yep, the little nick
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knacks, the advent calendars, likethe whole shebang. This is Jack Skellington
basically like absorbing everything, but theentire fucking town just lives Christmas twenty four
to seven. It seems. Thereis a funny parody of this exact scene
online. That's great and I stilllove it to this day. Have you
seen it where it's somebody that overdubsit and he's like looking down in the
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music starts, you know, andhe's just like an awe and he and
you just hear this head voice andhe's like, the fuck is this?
I have seen that? Yeah,you love that one so much? The
fuck the fuck there's watching it everywhere. The fuck this shit in the air,
the fuck like just the whole thing. So I can't see this without
(24:06):
hearing that anymore. But I digress. He gets obsessed with this place and
he's like, you had no Ikind of want to say fuck Halloween this
year, and I want to takeover Christmas for Christmas Land. And who's
that? Who's that jolly fat bastardin the red robe. That's Sandy Claus.
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And I love the childlike nature inwhich he says it. It's supposed
to be a mistake. Where it'sfunny, and also it fits in with
Halloween Town, like wouldn't you wantto meet somebody named Sandy Claus like fingernail,
Like that's appealing to these fuckers,right? It is? Yeah,
especially because Santa Claus in this movieis kind of like I wouldn't call him
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morbid, but you could tell thathe had a little bit more of a
I feel like he holds on too, grudges a little bit more than the
traditional Santa. He seems a littlecurmudgeon, just a not bad, not
in a cynical way, but he'sgot a little bit more like angst to
him. He's getting too old forthis shit, is what it is.
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Man. He's got that like oldman shakes fist at the sky attitude,
you know what I mean? Right, So Jack brings the idea to Halloween
telm and he's like, hey,like, here's what you do with like
Christmas carols, and this is thejob of an elf and this is how
you wrap presents. And there arethese creatures that pull the sled that Santa
(25:41):
Claus rides on and like all thisshit. But Sally, who is the
female protagonist of this movie, isa creation by doctor Finkelstein, who is
voiced by William Hickey, who ismost notably Uncle Lewis in Christmas Vacation.
So I always laugh when I hearhis voice come out of Doctor Finkelstein.
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I can just picture him looking atSally when Christmas comes to Halloween towne.
They want you to say grace byblasting, Well, shit, isn't a
Captain Spalding old boy in Halloween townwhat sid hag? Yeah, fucking conehead
looking motherfucker with the with the megaphoneyou talk about the mayor? Yeah,
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no, that's Glenn Shaddigs, mydude, my brother in christ It sounds
just like him. Could you imagine? That's why I was rewatching it?
And I was like, is thatthis sounds like him? Yo? That's
crazy? How did I not notice? This is Rob Zombie's nightmare before Christmas?
Okay, dude, you know what, I would pay great money to
(26:55):
see that ship. All the songsare metal as fuck. Bruh. I
feel like, no, that's that'sthe Warner Brothers movie. We would know
the universal give us that, dude. That would be some shit. That
would really be some fucking shit,dude. And you know Hugh loves this
(27:18):
movie too. I've never heard himsay it in an interview, but I
know he does. Look if thisdude loves the monsters as much as he
did enough to like make that movieas well as it was, I know
he's got to have a saft spotfor this somewhere. There's no way he
doesn't. But anyway, Jack Skellingtonis like, Hey, we need to
kidnap Santa Claus so that like,you know, just hold him here until
(27:41):
I finished Christmas. So he contactslock Stock and Barrel, who are these
little and I really mean this,like these little bastard motherfuckers who their reputation
precedes them. Really if you ifyou look at how the talentsfolk look at
these kids, it's just like,what the fuck? And another long story
(28:03):
short with this is he asks himto go get Santa Claus, but to
not give him to Ookie boogey Man, who you don't really know who the
fuck this guy is, but justfrom the way they talk about it,
and they're like, nah, thismotherfucker's bad news. And he's pretty much
somebody that likes to play like he'sgot an addiction to gambling. But it's
a the weirdest fucking way he likesto gamble, but at the cost of
(28:26):
somebody's life. It's pretty fucking yeahlike that. Yeah, yeah, it's
pretty fucking Harvey two face of youthere, buddy. Which don't you think
it's funny like a little sidetracker?Don't you think it's fucking hilarious that the
mayor is his two face, Likeit's it's kind of a poke at politicians,
right, really, dude, you'reright. The older I get,
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the greater this movie is. That'swhat I'm saying, Dude, it's fucking
funny. But uh, Jack fuckingcomes up with all this shit, like
he enlists the doctor scientists to givehim like these fucking reindeer and he's gonna
have zero his ghost dog like leadthe charge as his own personal routoff because
he's like, hey, man,I need somebody with a bright fucking nose.
(29:12):
You're you're bright, you're dead floatfucking lead my goddamn skeletal reindeer into
the fucking country to give fucked uppresents to kids. And I loved all
the sequences where everybody's like, hey, let's make all these presents and it's
all these like really dark, macabre, fucking things being wrapped in boxes.
(29:32):
It's like, can you just likeimagine somebody with one of the fucking like
you know, Jack in the boxeswhenever the fucking springs out, As if
a clown isn't scary enough, there'slike a severed head on the motherfucker dude,
you know what I mean. That'sthat's the shit they're doing in this
fucker. They're they're about to ruinthe ship a Christmas for a bunch of
kids, even though they think they'reimproving it, it's not being improved.
Well, it's so funny because youknow, you you think about this and
(29:57):
before this scene, Jack just stoodin like at the top of his little
castle thing and would look like amakeshift lab and just tried to study Christmas
in such a like deep and complexway, like trying to understand each minute
(30:18):
detail but just wasn't getting it.Whereas Sally just brought him a gift whenever
he was struggling the most and heneeded it. And it's like she just
instinctively understood the meaning of Christmas,like I don't know, there was just
something wholesome about that, Yeah,And I think that also lends itself to
(30:40):
her character. How she was createdin a lab, but she's inherently good.
Yeah, in a town fall ofthis stuff. She's inherently a good
person. Not that nobody there is, you know, good, but like
you know what I mean, Likeyeah, because really Oogie Boogie is the
only one that's inherently bad. Everybodyelse just means well, they just don't
(31:03):
do well. Yeah, And it'sand they're not even malicious with what they
know that that's just their culture rightexactly, because yeah, she has a
vision of like the whole thing goingbad because the little miniature Christmas tree she
holds like it it torches, andshe's like fuck, Like she's worried about
Jack and has a thing for him. Obviously, I know we're skipping over
(31:25):
a lot of shit here, butlike I said, like y'all have all
seen this fucking movie. Like Ilove that when he's finally flying out,
you know, to drop the presenceoff of shit that he causes such chaos
with just the gifts that the fuckingmilitary is called in to shoot him out
(31:45):
of the fucking sky. That wasthe scene where as a kid, I
was like, the fuck I walkedin on this movie and this girl is
like just mantling her own body andthen and then I come here, what
is this like? At no pointdid I dislike the movie, even as
(32:07):
a kid, I was just confused. I was like, this feels like,
am I supposed to watch this?I don't know. I wasn't sure.
Parental guidance suggested I know, butlike I just I don't know.
It's funny, that's the That's thefunniest thing it because it's like there was
(32:31):
nothing in it that was bad orwrong or inappropriate. It was just like,
as a kid, you're so usedto these things being so sanitized.
It's like, I don't know whatI'm looking at. I get that,
And to that point, it seemslike a lot of the curtains were drawn
(32:52):
back from our eyes, if youwill. Yeah, with some of the
shit portrayed in the movie, whichagain it's nineteen ninety three and it's PG
and after like a PG rating kindof carried a little more weight back then
because if you think about the factthat they said the fuck word in Beetlejuice
and that is a PG movie,Dude, that still blows my mind,
Like, and people forget that shit, they really do. Nice fucking model.
(33:19):
I don't love that line. Bythe way, it's funny as shit.
That's so crazy, Like I understandthat the what the context was,
so it's not like referring to sexualintercourse, but even still, how did
they get away with that? Itwas just the one time? Yeah,
but I thought that only accounts forPG thirteen. It also depends on context.
(33:39):
For PG it's very rare and aslike the one instance that it happened.
So is it just a matter oflike, oh no, all PG
movies can do it, They justdon't, yeah, because I mean they
run the risk of getting a harsherrating at that point too. And plus,
like you have to be very specificwith intent and wording. He wasn't
(34:00):
telling somebody fuck you, right,he wasn't using it in a sexual manner.
It was as a SpongeBob would havewould put it is a sentence enhanswer.
Yeah, I mean it makes sense. I'm just like, huh,
because that's another one too that ifyou would have asked me out, I
(34:21):
said, oh no, beatle JuicePG thirteen easy even without that line,
I don't know, I just wouldhave assumed. I know a lot of
people think that huh Manila effect.Yeah, and then believe this or not.
There are actually people out there thatI've talked to that fought Nightmare before
Christmas was PG thirteen, No kidding, absolutely, just based on the touchstone
(34:47):
context. I think, based onthe macabre aspect. I know, I
keep bringing that word up, butlike it really is like it it's dark
for a children's movie. It isdark. It is Mandela effect into play.
If you were to have asked mewhat this movie was rated, I
really wouldn't know. I'd be like, ge, PG, is it G?
(35:08):
I don't know, Like I reallywouldn't have known, but right,
because I mean if you think aboutlike stuff that we watch now that's rated
PG and then G, it's likethis markedly feels tame. Yeah, like
and again there's nothing bad in itor inappropriate or the only real thing would
be, like I keep bringing upis the self stitching. And that didn't
(35:31):
even bother me or make me uncomfortable. It's just like that's the one moment
where I'm like I could see thatmaking some of like the NPAA like little
weary. You know, like allright, well, I you know,
like you might have to negotiate withthem, but you could probably have gotten
it to be rated. G Idon't know, like we'll get back into
(35:54):
the movie. But like, speakingof that, the bamboos of Disney bruh,
because like all the shit that welove about this movie, all the
visuals and everything, it's like,dude, if Disney really had their fucking
way, we probably wouldn't have gottenhalf the shit that we get in this
movie. The fact that they pitchedthis right, So Caroline Thompson, I
(36:19):
believe it was her. Somebody screenthis for the Disney execs and they're like,
oh, we love this. Andthey still had some you know,
obviously some placeholders and storyboards in certainspots, and they're like, we fucking
love this. And she's like,aha, And there's the problem. This
is not an eighteen million dollar movie. This is a twenty four million dollar
movie. We need more money.And without the money, you get none
(36:44):
of this. You get not this, not that, not that thing over
there that you love so much,and definitely not this fuck an entire story
arc bruh. So if they hadsaid no for some unbeknownst reason, what
would have even been Would they havejust made it like a TV special that
(37:06):
lasted thirty minutes? They would havehad to because we wouldn't have had fuck
all to work with. Yeah,because the movie's already extremely lean. What
is it like seventy five minutes long? It's like an hour and like I
don't know, like an hour andfifteen sixteen minutes and that's fucking short.
That's including credits, dude. Yeah, like it's a very short movie.
Also, like I don't understand whyTim Burton didn't step in a little bit
(37:32):
more in order to kind of belike, hey, we shouldn't even have
had to have this discussion, likefor historical purposes. I'm glad it worked
out with that story because it's balleras fuck. You finessed Disney into giving
you fucking more millions more dollars.It's awesome, But why didn't they just
(37:55):
get Tim Burton, who was ontop of the world at the time,
till like interject or something you wanthis team? Yeah, they were too
busy doing what they were told todo by Tim, which just handle it
because he was he was too busy, like fucker was in a contract with
(38:17):
Warner Brothers, like at the sametime trying to do the Batman sequel,
and like, goddamn, it's prettymuch like the version of like, don't
talk to me right now, I'mbusy, and then like when he finally
had to, it was just like, oh God, Like there are stories
about this man attacking an editing machineand kicking holes in the walls and shit
over either the scripting or the finishof the movie or like literally any aspect
(38:44):
of it where he wasn't their handson. But goddamn it, he had
a vision. Nonetheless, and notto take away from Henry Sellick, who
did a fantastic job delivering this,but like again and going all the way
back has got his fingerprints all overit. We would have had markedly different
film had they not fucking bamboozled theshit out of the Mouse. Yeah,
(39:04):
Like we wouldn't even be talking aboutit, probably because if they were to
have cut out, like even theycut out ten minutes of it, I
feel like so much character development wouldhave been lost that I can't imagine a
ten minutes shorter movie, much lessof twenty minutes probably wouldn't have cared.
(39:29):
Yeah, and the fact that evenafter all this shit, Caroline Thompson wanted
to have it reshot for a differentending. And then then like Tim Burt
was like no, fuck that,We're we keep the ending that's in here,
which we'll get to. What didthey ever report on what her ending
would have been. I don't believeso, but I know that the ending
(39:50):
we got was that Jack realizes,in being shot down and having everything like
going chaos, He's like, Istill got it. I just need to
do some different, you know,ways of doing it, But I still
got it. I have the itchagain to fucking scare And he's like,
but fuck, I gotta make thisright. So when he goes back to
(40:10):
Halloween town Man, Santa Claus andSally, who was trying to save him
are in the clutches of Oogie Boogeyman, and we get to the finale,
which it's a little nah. Ikind of expected more, but I also
get how they did what they did. So the Ugie Boogeyman is really just
a bunch of bugs in a sackthat make up his entire being. Jack
(40:31):
Skellington like throws a thread from himinto this machinery that's going in circles,
and he unravels and his bugs spewout everywhere, and there's a shot whether
falling into that like lava or whatever. The fuck that he was gonna dump
Santa Claus into and it's just likespinning. That's one of the only shots
in the movie where I'm like,that is not stop motion like that is
(40:52):
then you can tell like that isactually a thing that's happening, and if
people are just dropping shit into andmm hm. But anyway, they get
saved. Jack apologizes to Santa andSanta's just like, man, he fucked
it up and say it. Hewas like, fucked up, bitch.
Santa has to go replace all thepresence that Jack fucked up and Christmas Land
(41:13):
and then he's got his mojo ifyou will again. So he's he's back
to being the Pumpkin King and hehe and Sally express their feelings for each
other, and as a gift andto show there's no hard feelings, Santa
Claus brings snowfall to Halloween Town andgives them a little bit of Christmas spirit.
(41:34):
And it's when this happens that thecitizens understand what the meaning of Christmas
is. And then Jack and Sallyhave the iconic you know shot. It's
it's all over a lot of theposters where they're they're on that hill or
whatever, and that's where like theyshare their kiss and like they're you know,
singing, and like it's the endof the movie. But it's a
great shot, it is. That'sone thing that I did love about this
(42:00):
movie for being a stop motion.There's a lot of great shots in this
movie. And I think, uh, there was a production note where there
were to be no right angles inthe fucking set designs and shit, which
is correct that you know, afterlearning that, it makes so much sense.
Like you see the the architecture,if you will, of all the
(42:20):
buildings and all the housing and allof like the fences, and nothing is
like straight across. Everything is verylike angled and just fucking gothic as shit.
What a movie though, for real, honestly, I'm glad they never
have remade this or have tried toreimagine it. It doesn't seem like it
(42:42):
needs to be. It's it's it'stimeless, really right, the really the
only thing that is a nippick thatI would have And again, this is
one of my favorite movies. Buthonestly, just add like five minutes maybe,
like I feel like there's some thingshere and there that I would have
(43:02):
liked a little bit more of.You know, like, is there one
thing in particular you would have likeadded a little more up, So,
for one, the whole Jack andSally thing, you get the sense throughout
that Sally is into Jack. ButI feel like Jack's turn was very sudden.
I don't know. I think maybehe did feel that way. But
(43:24):
Jack also kind of has that attitudeof like, sure he knows what's up
with certain shit, but he comesoff aloof a lot of the time,
really right. But that's what I'msaying, is like just a little bit
more development on that arc. OrI don't know, maybe you had brought
(43:45):
up like you felt that ending withOugi Boogie was a little in to you,
Like do you mean the climactic battleor the or is it the reveal
of what Ugi Boogie is. Ithink it's the battle itself. It's not
necessarily like what Ookie Bookie is,because what he is, that's what makes
him kind of frightening and kind ofscary and shit. I think for me,
(44:07):
it's like there's not a lot ofaction, which I get it,
I get it, I get it. That's a lot to animate. Oh
dude, I wouldn't want that task, but I don't think it would have
hurt to have a little more ballsthere. Mm hmm. Yeah, for
me, it would just be theJack and Sally thing and then you know,
(44:29):
uh really that that's about it.Just show more of them, you
know, like like you want theirromance a little more fleshed out. Yes,
Like I would have loved that.And you don't even need a full
five minutes. You could honestly havedone that in like one to two little
(44:49):
scenes, you know. Yeah,And I get that it's supposed to come
across like maybe Sally feels like itmight be an unrequited love, which it's
not. But I also agree withwhat you're saying, like I would love
to have seen that too, becausethere's no sweet yeah, and there's like
there's enough story going on elsewhere thatit it wouldn't have gone like it wouldn't
have come across as forced you know. No that that might have been like
(45:15):
the one thing that could have beenamplified. But all in all, God
damn what a movie though. Ohdude, love love love this movie.
Yeah, it's a staple for me, and I know for YouTube. This
is a staple for Halloween and Christmas, which year for both. Yeah,
me too. I've already seen itlike it normally, Like I can watch
(45:36):
this, you know, year round. It's fun, but like you know,
we all start watching it more duringthe holidays. I think I've already
seen this movie like five times thisyear, and that's not including the thousand
other times I've seen this on abitch. But yeah, that's Uh.
Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas thatit came out on October the thirteenth,
nineteen ninety three. Come back nextweek. Uh. Trevor from the Catching
(45:59):
Up on Cinema podcast is going tohang out and talk about Silent Night Deadly
Night Part two. I was mostrecently on his podcast talking about Godzilla minus
one. Check that shit out,but come here next week. Check out
his guest appearance on Called Cinemas Saturday. Are there any spoilers in that review
from god Zilla minus one? Absolutely, we spoil the absolute shit out of
(46:22):
it. Okay, I will keepthat in mind, That's right, So
yeah, spoilers bound. After that, we will be yes, I swear
on everything I am doing it.I will be being as objective as I
possibly can to talk about a Christmasstory from Bob Clark, who I think
(46:43):
did the best Christmas movie, BlackChristmas. Then after that, Devin,
you and I are going to sitdown and we're going to give the gift
of Christmas to everybody. For ourChristmas Day episode, which is going to
be Earnest Safes Christmas, let's go. We actually have a variety, if
(47:04):
you will, this entire fucking holidayseason. A couple things for the kids,
a couple things for the nostalgia,and the hot garbage. There's a
little bit of everything here. Yeah, yeah, I could seize it.
You can season. Let's get thefuck out of here, man, everybody
out there. Listen to past presidentand future episodes on supermedia brospodcast dot com.
(47:24):
You can go to the show notesBlow and click a link and go
there. You can also click thelink on our YouTube channel and the show
What's Blow and subscribe to that shit. If you haven't already, or if
you're watching this on YouTube, giveus a thumbs up and leave a comment
in the comment section. What didyou love the most about this movie?
What was your first time seeing TheNightmare before Christmas? Is it one of
(47:45):
your favorite movies of all time?Could it have been better? Do you
not like it? Give us anythingin the fucking feedback below, leave us
a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Good Pods, and Podchaser,
And like we've said before, comeback next week for more fun for
Santa Media bros. Let's do it. But for right now, we're gonna
(48:07):
get the hell out of here,and uh, I'm gonna go have some
motherfucking hot cocoa and Marshmallows. Ithink it calls for it. Dude,
have you gone to a Starbucks andgotten the hot white chocolate? You know
what? Fuck the hot coco withMarkrellows. Let's go get that, dude.
It's so fucking good. All right, let's go, ty bet.
(48:28):
Thank you guys for hanging out withus this week. This was Tim Burton's
The Nightmare Before Christmas, episode threehundred and three on Colt Cinemas Saturday until
next week. I'm Richie shades onWe're All or Slaves, slays on Yeah, slays on
Supermedia Bros. Podcast is a foundingmember of the Odd Pods Media Network.
(00:27):
Welcome to the Supermedia Brose Podcast,where two best friends give comedically informative takes
on movies, music, pro wrestling, and more. I'm Richie Devan.
This is Santa Media Bros. Twentytwenty three and it's episode three hundred and
three Cult Cinema Saturday. We're talkingabout Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas,
directed by Henry Sellick. It wasn'tTim Burton, nope, but Tim Burton
(00:50):
wrote it right like he wrote thescript. The story came from Tim Burton,
the screenplay was from Caroline Thompson.You write the music pretty sure he
didn't. What the fuck did hedo? Richie? Conceptually speaking, this
is his idea, but a slewof other sons of bitches made this thing
(01:14):
come to life. How did youfeel about this movie when you first saw
it? And hell, when didyou first see this movie? Oh?
God, okay, so the firsttime I watched it. It's very unfair
to say. Weirdly enough, Idon't think it was on Disney Channel at
the time, because I mean,history tells us that it's always been a
(01:38):
Disney movie. As it is,but for the longest time, it wasn't
distributed as such. It was Touchstone. I might be wrong. Somebody older
than me might say, no,that didn't happen you. You were just
a kid with a bad memory.I want to say it was on ABC
Family. There's a very big possibilitythat happened because ABC Family. That's a
(02:01):
Disney chance at Buena Vista thing.Is it okay? Because it was like
the twenty five Days of Christmas moviemarathon that they do every every year.
Absolutely, And I didn't even watchthe full thing. It's I walked in
on it in my bedroom. MyTV upstairs was much smaller than the living
(02:22):
room one, so I had allmy gamings all done downstairs, but I
ended up going upstairs to just hangout and it was on. If memory
serves me, it was whenever Sallywas stitching herself up after like the fall
and everything. And I remember likewalking in and I'm looking at it and
(02:45):
I knew of the movie, likeI saw the scenery and I recognized what
it was. But I was like, the fuck is this? Like I
knew that it was a nightmare beforeChristmas, but I was like, isn't
this like a kid's movie, whoWhat is going on? And I was
enthralled by it. I watched therest of it there, if I had
(03:05):
to guess, maybe eight years oldish, you know, something like that.
First time I watched it in fullthough wasn't until like another year or
two. But fuck, that absolutelytracks with your age, because probably right
around that time was the tenth anniversaryof the film, because it was like
(03:28):
two thousand and three, around liketwo thousand and three, two thousand and
four for you right roughly maybe probably, yeah, so because the movie came
out in October of nineteen ninety three, and dude, like I was there
when it came out. I vividlyremember watching this like religiously in my family's
(03:49):
video store whenever I was a kid. I can smell the inside of that
store and remember having like pizza Hutdelivered to the mother fucker for our whole
family and just grabbing a slice ofpizza and watching this movie a lot because
it was so new, and Ithought it was so fucking fascinating, like
(04:11):
I had seen like California raisins andlike a bunch of stop motion and a
bunch of like, you know,shit like that. However, when this
came out, there was nothing likeit to me, and I say,
they don't make this shit like theyused to, because they really don't make
it like they used to. Ithink the closest thing recently that I have
seen similar to this, and likenot being a Tim Burton thing, Phil
(04:38):
Tippet's Mad God, which was athirty year journey. I've not seen this.
I'll look into it. Yeah,please do. It's great. It's
on shutter it's a it's Phil Tippet'sthe guy that did some of the effects
work on Jurassic Park. This islike a stop motion like I don't want
(04:58):
to spoil much about it. It'sfucking fantastic, but definitely check it out.
It's so funny that this movie,though, got a resurgence years and
years later, because like, asa kid, it was this weird thing
of like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know of this movie.
It's like urban legend, you know, like it got popular after I
(05:23):
was already an established child. Soit was almost like this murky like when
did this movie come out? AndI was like, I don't know,
like three years ago, Like no, no, not at all. Yeah,
that's how that's how cold films work. Everybody out there that's like word
of mouth. Yeah, popular,like didn't didn't get a lot of love
(05:46):
at first, And then there's somethat are just instantly like instant cult classics.
But like this movie, it's likethe merchandising in the home release itself
and people watching it on physical homemedia and costs playing. And hell,
I think some bootleg Marge even probablyfucking resurrected this. That checks out as
(06:08):
well, because I remember working atthe Dollar Story at one point, motherfucker,
we had like Jack Skellington shirts.Do you remember the black one with
his face on it? Oh?How could I fucking forget my brother in
Christ? I had that shirt formany years. Ask me if it had
a Disney tag? It did not. Yeah. Did it even have like
(06:29):
the imprint on the back of theshirt? No, on the price tag?
No, No, that was not. That was not a trademarked shirt.
And it's funny to say that becauseDisney themselves, Like, we'll get
into the movie proper like a littlebit here and there, because like I
think everybody out there listening to thisepisode has seen this movie. And if
(06:51):
you haven't get out from underneath therock, that you've been living under the
fact that it took Disney well overten years to be like, you know,
maybe we should have put our nameon this motherfucker to begin with.
And it's really weird, Like therewas so much that went on into obviously
the making of it, the writingprocess, everything, but just the actual
(07:15):
distribution part. Like this almost didn'teven get released after it was nearly finished.
And even though you know, Ijoked about like, oh so wait,
if Tim Burton didn't write it,didn't do the music, didn't blah
blah blah blah blah blah, whatdid he do? Honestly, Like,
yeah, conceptually it was his,but really it was I don't want to
(07:42):
like minimize his contributions to this project, but is it fair to say that
it was really just a marketing ploy? Yeah by Disney, Yeah for sure,
because if you look at the timein which it came out, I
don't think this movie and again Ireally fullheartedly mean this. During the time
(08:03):
that it came out, Tim Burtonjust had a successful run from like Peewee's
Big Adventure Beetlejuice Batman was working onBatman Returns concurrently, Like with this film,
I don't think the Nightmare Before Christmasbecomes as cult classic as it does
without Tim Burton's name being attached atthe top. So let me ask you
(08:24):
this then, as an almost reversequestion to that statement, how different do
you think it would be if hedid right and directed? You've seen gorbs
Bride, right, Okay, fairenough. I think that's what happens,
Like, that's what happens when youget to direct your own even Frank and
(08:45):
Weenie, which that's the thing,They're not as good and special to me
as a Nightmber before Christmas, butstill excellent films. And I think that's
largely to do with the fact thatthe people that worked on this movie had
their own personal shit attached to it. Like if you think about how Danny
(09:07):
Elfman has talked about singing as JackSkellington, like writing the music and lyrics
and composition and shit he was writingabout himself as kind of wanting out of
the spotlight because he was growing tiredof being a singer and just the whole,
the whole thing I mean. DannyElfman famously is is Slash was the
(09:31):
singer of Oingle Boingo, which thatband is a cult band itself, where
like you know, who they areif you know who Danny Elfman is,
like you know who Oingle Boingo is? But I can guarantee you I can
ask like twenty people who's Oingle Boingoand maybe half of them know? Maybe
Yeah, dude, I'm thinking aboutlike my generation. I don't think maybe
(09:56):
one out of fifty, you know. Like, and that's just an age
thing, you know, that's nobody'sfault. But no, it was very
niche, you know, and hecomes into help make this movie that,
by all intents and purposes, shouldhave been even more niche like, and
(10:18):
that's the thing. One of myfavorite Christmas movies ever. Okay, one
of my favorite movies period. Butthey even admitted whenever they were making this
movie and everything, and the firstlittle test screening was with a bunch of
children, and they were almost confused, like they didn't know what to make
(10:41):
of this, Like the studio didn'tthink that it was going to even be
a hit, because you do watchit and it's kind of like, well,
okay, who is this for exactly? Is this a kid's movie?
Is it not? What like reallythink about it? Okay, it's rated
(11:01):
something that Disney wanted no part ofat the time. Why is it PG?
Are you asking me like why Ithink it's PG? Are you asking
like legitimately, why is it ratedPG? Legitimately? Because Okay, the
whole like self stitching thing. Okay, fair enough, I guess, But
there's really nothing explicit in this moviewhatsoever. PG doesn't necessarily mean explicit that
(11:26):
PG is parental guidance suggested like youwouldn't leave a young child that is extremely
impressionable or probably has nightmares that comeeasy to him. You probably wouldn't leave
him with this movie. Because Isay this thirty years removed from the initial
(11:48):
release. When I first watched this, I was seven years old. I
was also watching a nightmare on ElmStreet. At seven years old, I
knew what fiction was. I knewwhat was real and what was not real.
However, give it to a sevenyear old with a very overactive imagination
and who was easily frightened. Thereare some visuals in this movie that I
(12:11):
could see giving people nightmares, Like, Okay, Boogeyman is nightmare fuel on
his own, Like he's just he'slike a baghead character. Right. Yeah,
Then in the opening this is Halloween, like you have some of the
characters who are like that, I'myou know, I'm the creature under your
stairs, and like that whole fuckingsequence is like, oh, okay,
there's some shit here that looks grotesqueand macabre, and I love that shit.
(12:35):
But I absolutely understand like parental guidancesuggested being a thing for this,
and it was the nineties, likeearly nineties. I know Disney was sitting
there like Renaissance era. Hey we'vegot a little Mermaid, we've got Beauty
and the Beast, we've got Aladdin, We're about to release the Lion King.
(12:56):
Do we really want to put ourDisney stamp on this? So that's
the whole touchdown pictures thing, that'sthe whole who is this for? Probably
preteen teenagers young adults like you knowwhat I mean, Like that's probably it's
four But even though, like Iunderstand, it was the nineties, but
(13:18):
I also got to throw a littlebit of shade at Disney because y'all bitches
were fucking real quick to say,look, we we think this might be
able to make money and might not, but we're gonna distance ourselves from it
now thirty years removed. It's like, no, no, we love this,
(13:39):
Come here, Come here, baby, come here, come here,
puts their arm around it, like, hey, you can have some deser.
You can sit at the table withus, and you can have some
dessert. You can, you knowwhat I mean? Like, Sally,
you're a Disney princess. Fuck you, I know that's it's y'all ag shit
for that, Like, are youfucking kidding me? Some jank ass bullshit
(14:05):
right there? Man, I gottaagree, it's some fun shit. It
really is some fun shit to pullon a movie like this. Disney's not
gonna be like, hey, wewere wrong. Disney's gonna be like,
no, we always love this movie. They do that with everything though.
And the thing is is like fromfrom all of the reports, like they
were concerned about okay, will kidslike this, they were nervous about it.
(14:30):
They were apprehensive, But in termsof like test footage for the executives
and everything, everybody said from dayone, No, this is actually incredible.
This is a great movie. Wejust don't know what to do with
it. I think Hot Topic knewwhat to do with it. Oh dude,
hot Topic. They understood the fuckinguh the mission here. Yeah,
(14:52):
they understood the assignment, They understoodthe target audience, which cause like,
think about this, like, forme at least, Yeah, how weird
it was to have always loved thismovie and then come across people that were
like, like you were like theyhad to discover it later on, which
obviously, like you're younger than Iam, but like seeing people my age
go into hot topic during Homecoming seasonthree and seeing them put out like,
(15:16):
hey, here's some small merch that'scool. Two thousand and four rolls around,
Oh, there's a little bit more. Okay, graduates high school two
thousand and five rolls around. Thenyou get like we're getting into the air
of like Nightmare before Christmas revisited,where it's all these bands covering the music
from this movie and you're just like, obviously, the influence and the culture
(15:41):
has always been there for this movie. The fact that everybody and their mother
knew this before the fucking studio thatmade it is bullshit. Like I'm not
saying we had we were bullshit forthat, but like fuck Disney for that
for real, dude, dude,And just think like, what if Tim
Burton didn't sell the rights to Disney, What if he was able to bring
(16:04):
into Warner Brothers. How different historywould be you know, like I wonder
how much like you. You definitelybrought up a great point. They're like,
how much darker would it have been? Because like, think about how
Warner Brothers gave this man free reignwith like Beetlejuice and fucking Batman, especially
(16:25):
Batman returns. Holy shit, that'smy favorite of the two Burton Batman saying
actually he got real dark with thatshit. So I I know this was
like a kid's quote kids thing,or like he was, you know,
wanting to portray it. It wouldstop motion, which again is a lost
ar formal on its own, butlike imagine that movie being very dark and
then kids be like, hey,I want to see this, and like
(16:47):
the it's like the whole thing thathappened whenever South Park came out, and
like the movie came out. Mhm. Believe this or not, people
were actually at the box office withtheir kids taking in and see this and
not knowing fuck all what they wereabout to take them in to see.
Did they not see the not eventhe show. I'm talking like the movie
poster itself. Nobody fucking cared.They saw animation and like, oh this
(17:11):
is going to theaters. I cantake my kids, because there are parents
out there that have no clue what'shappening, like cartoon Wise, but they
see a poster and they're like,hell yeah, I can take my kid
to see this in the theater.Same probably would have applied here. This
movie didn't bomb, but it alsodidn't do that great, so I think
again, the perception, I thinkis what hurt it initially. However,
(17:34):
it found its footing on home release, and it's not a sprint, it's
a marathon because we're sitting here intwenty twenty three talking about a movie they
came out in nineteen ninety three,right, which we'll get into the movie
proper, but we're going to takea break and we'll be right back.
Once upon a time, boring,It was the best of times. It
(17:59):
was the you got that right?What's your problem? We want new stories?
Hi, It's Frankie and Garrett andwe host The Ever Trending Story,
a weekly podcast where we bring tolife a fictional story created by our own
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(18:22):
at ever Trending pot so getting intothe movie proper, the motherfucker made one
hundred and one point two million atthe box office altogether, which I think
this is also from re releases andyeah, probably probably home release too.
I was about to say, becauselike, I think it only made half
(18:44):
of this it on It's an Iwas about to say, because I feel
like if it costs twenty four millionand it made one hundred million in nineteen
ninety three, I feel like that'sa pretty good little run there. Yeah,
Because I mean, well, ifyou think about it, the movie
has it was a sleeper hit,like it really was like h classic,
(19:06):
Yes, sleeper hit at the boxoffice. Yes, it definitely made like
fifty million like when it first hadcome out. But if you think about
how many reissues and like re releasesit's had, because it's had one,
God it's it had one in six, seven, eighth nine, and then
again in twenty twenty, and thenagain this year. It keeps increasing.
(19:26):
They're basically doing what James Cameron isdoing with fucking Titanic and Avatar. It's
like, hey man, just keepfucking spewing this bitch out, which they
I don't blame them. You canpump this fucker out at Halloween and in
Christmas every year and guess what peoplewill turn out and droves and kind of
like the whole Avatar and Titanic thing. I can't even be mad because I
(19:48):
mean, shit, if if youkeep re releasing this and it keeps making
money, then why wouldn't you Probablydoesn't cost you that much to re release
something. No, not at all. I mean because they don't have any
marketing to earn back, is whatit is. Like, they have the
money to fucking blow. So Ican't I can't be mad, like fuck
it, right. So the movieitself deals with a character named Jack Skellington
(20:15):
who is the Pumpkin King of HalloweenTown. And to make a long story
short, because I don't want togo beat by bead, he's tired of
the same shit every year. Basically, like because if you think about how
Christmas and Easter and many other holidaysare, there's longevity, you know,
traditionally there's longevity. Halloween is alwayskind of like regarded by people that just
(20:38):
don't like Halloween as like that's oneday you're fucking not for bro, if
you love Halloween, every day ismotherfucking Halloween okay, sure. So Jack
Skellington is tired of the same fuckingthing every year and he's longing for something
more. So while wandering in thewoods, he comes across like all these
(21:02):
doors, and I thought that waslike a really neat visual how every one
of these doors were on a treeand you could tell what holiday it was,
Like there was an Easter one,there was a Christmas one, Saint
Patrick's Day, Thanksgiving, Independence Day, like all these randoming holidays. I
love how easy to digest that is. By the way, Yeah, me
too. I'm a big visual storytellerperson. Like I love a good like
(21:25):
Tarantino script, I love a goodKevin Smith dialogue film. However, the
little art fucker and me just loveswhen I don't need anything spoken to me.
I can just look at it andbe like, hey, I get
this. You would never want todo this because the music in this movie
(21:45):
is classic, but the story issimple enough to follow to where you could
watch it on mute and you couldprobably decide for maybe eighty five percent of
the movie. Hell, I thinkyou could probably just watch it with the
music only. Yeah, just asan actual like, just listen to the
soundtrack and there's some great songs there. This whole soundtrack fucks like so hard,
(22:11):
Like when he gets to Christmas Town, what's this? Like that is
I say that is, like,hey, that's the musical number, but
like this is Halloween is also themusical number. Hey, making Christmas is
There's a lot of good shit inhere. But I fucking I love when
he gets there to Christmas Town,because I mean, wouldn't you have like
the same reaction if you all,like if you saw this shit for the
(22:33):
first time, Like, think aboutthe first time that you ever. I
say this phrase because it's very childlikeand I could picture a kid saying it
just like this, Remember the firsttime you quote saw Christmas? Yeah,
do you know what I mean?M Like the first time we all saw
Christmas. It's a commercial. It'sthe Christmas lights on houses. It's the
(22:56):
little construction paper projects you did inschool, right, It's the cartoons,
it's the television specials. It's thefire in the fireplace, a little glass
like one inch tall figurines that yourgreat great grandma had out with like the
fucking cotton all over the table tosimulate snow. Yep, the little nick
(23:18):
knacks, the advent calendars, likethe whole shebang. This is Jack Skellington
basically like absorbing everything, but theentire fucking town just lives Christmas twenty four
to seven. It seems. Thereis a funny parody of this exact scene
online. That's great and I stilllove it to this day. Have you
seen it where it's somebody that overdubsit and he's like looking down in the
(23:41):
music starts, you know, andhe's just like an awe and he and
you just hear this head voice andhe's like, the fuck is this?
I have seen that? Yeah,you love that one so much? The
fuck the fuck there's watching it everywhere. The fuck this shit in the air,
the fuck like just the whole thing. So I can't see this without
(24:06):
hearing that anymore. But I digress. He gets obsessed with this place and
he's like, you had no Ikind of want to say fuck Halloween this
year, and I want to takeover Christmas for Christmas Land. And who's
that? Who's that jolly fat bastardin the red robe. That's Sandy Claus.
(24:29):
And I love the childlike nature inwhich he says it. It's supposed
to be a mistake. Where it'sfunny, and also it fits in with
Halloween Town, like wouldn't you wantto meet somebody named Sandy Claus like fingernail,
Like that's appealing to these fuckers,right? It is? Yeah,
especially because Santa Claus in this movieis kind of like I wouldn't call him
(24:55):
morbid, but you could tell thathe had a little bit more of a
I feel like he holds on too, grudges a little bit more than the
traditional Santa. He seems a littlecurmudgeon, just a not bad, not
in a cynical way, but he'sgot a little bit more like angst to
him. He's getting too old forthis shit, is what it is.
(25:18):
Man. He's got that like oldman shakes fist at the sky attitude,
you know what I mean? Right, So Jack brings the idea to Halloween
telm and he's like, hey,like, here's what you do with like
Christmas carols, and this is thejob of an elf and this is how
you wrap presents. And there arethese creatures that pull the sled that Santa
(25:41):
Claus rides on and like all thisshit. But Sally, who is the
female protagonist of this movie, isa creation by doctor Finkelstein, who is
voiced by William Hickey, who ismost notably Uncle Lewis in Christmas Vacation.
So I always laugh when I hearhis voice come out of Doctor Finkelstein.
(26:06):
I can just picture him looking atSally when Christmas comes to Halloween towne.
They want you to say grace byblasting, Well, shit, isn't a
Captain Spalding old boy in Halloween townwhat sid hag? Yeah, fucking conehead
looking motherfucker with the with the megaphoneyou talk about the mayor? Yeah,
(26:32):
no, that's Glenn Shaddigs, mydude, my brother in christ It sounds
just like him. Could you imagine? That's why I was rewatching it?
And I was like, is thatthis sounds like him? Yo? That's
crazy? How did I not notice? This is Rob Zombie's nightmare before Christmas?
Okay, dude, you know what, I would pay great money to
(26:55):
see that ship. All the songsare metal as fuck. Bruh. I
feel like, no, that's that'sthe Warner Brothers movie. We would know
the universal give us that, dude. That would be some shit. That
would really be some fucking shit,dude. And you know Hugh loves this
(27:18):
movie too. I've never heard himsay it in an interview, but I
know he does. Look if thisdude loves the monsters as much as he
did enough to like make that movieas well as it was, I know
he's got to have a saft spotfor this somewhere. There's no way he
doesn't. But anyway, Jack Skellingtonis like, Hey, we need to
kidnap Santa Claus so that like,you know, just hold him here until
(27:41):
I finished Christmas. So he contactslock Stock and Barrel, who are these
little and I really mean this,like these little bastard motherfuckers who their reputation
precedes them. Really if you ifyou look at how the talentsfolk look at
these kids, it's just like,what the fuck? And another long story
(28:03):
short with this is he asks himto go get Santa Claus, but to
not give him to Ookie boogey Man, who you don't really know who the
fuck this guy is, but justfrom the way they talk about it,
and they're like, nah, thismotherfucker's bad news. And he's pretty much
somebody that likes to play like he'sgot an addiction to gambling. But it's
a the weirdest fucking way he likesto gamble, but at the cost of
(28:26):
somebody's life. It's pretty fucking yeahlike that. Yeah, yeah, it's
pretty fucking Harvey two face of youthere, buddy. Which don't you think
it's funny like a little sidetracker?Don't you think it's fucking hilarious that the
mayor is his two face, Likeit's it's kind of a poke at politicians,
right, really, dude, you'reright. The older I get,
(28:51):
the greater this movie is. That'swhat I'm saying, Dude, it's fucking
funny. But uh, Jack fuckingcomes up with all this shit, like
he enlists the doctor scientists to givehim like these fucking reindeer and he's gonna
have zero his ghost dog like leadthe charge as his own personal routoff because
he's like, hey, man,I need somebody with a bright fucking nose.
(29:12):
You're you're bright, you're dead floatfucking lead my goddamn skeletal reindeer into
the fucking country to give fucked uppresents to kids. And I loved all
the sequences where everybody's like, hey, let's make all these presents and it's
all these like really dark, macabre, fucking things being wrapped in boxes.
(29:32):
It's like, can you just likeimagine somebody with one of the fucking like
you know, Jack in the boxeswhenever the fucking springs out, As if
a clown isn't scary enough, there'slike a severed head on the motherfucker dude,
you know what I mean. That'sthat's the shit they're doing in this
fucker. They're they're about to ruinthe ship a Christmas for a bunch of
kids, even though they think they'reimproving it, it's not being improved.
Well, it's so funny because youknow, you you think about this and
(29:57):
before this scene, Jack just stoodin like at the top of his little
castle thing and would look like amakeshift lab and just tried to study Christmas
in such a like deep and complexway, like trying to understand each minute
(30:18):
detail but just wasn't getting it.Whereas Sally just brought him a gift whenever
he was struggling the most and heneeded it. And it's like she just
instinctively understood the meaning of Christmas,like I don't know, there was just
something wholesome about that, Yeah,And I think that also lends itself to
(30:40):
her character. How she was createdin a lab, but she's inherently good.
Yeah, in a town fall ofthis stuff. She's inherently a good
person. Not that nobody there is, you know, good, but like
you know what I mean, Likeyeah, because really Oogie Boogie is the
only one that's inherently bad. Everybodyelse just means well, they just don't
(31:03):
do well. Yeah, And it'sand they're not even malicious with what they
know that that's just their culture rightexactly, because yeah, she has a
vision of like the whole thing goingbad because the little miniature Christmas tree she
holds like it it torches, andshe's like fuck, Like she's worried about
Jack and has a thing for him. Obviously, I know we're skipping over
(31:25):
a lot of shit here, butlike I said, like y'all have all
seen this fucking movie. Like Ilove that when he's finally flying out,
you know, to drop the presenceoff of shit that he causes such chaos
with just the gifts that the fuckingmilitary is called in to shoot him out
(31:45):
of the fucking sky. That wasthe scene where as a kid, I
was like, the fuck I walkedin on this movie and this girl is
like just mantling her own body andthen and then I come here, what
is this like? At no pointdid I dislike the movie, even as
(32:07):
a kid, I was just confused. I was like, this feels like,
am I supposed to watch this?I don't know. I wasn't sure.
Parental guidance suggested I know, butlike I just I don't know.
It's funny, that's the That's thefunniest thing it because it's like there was
(32:31):
nothing in it that was bad orwrong or inappropriate. It was just like,
as a kid, you're so usedto these things being so sanitized.
It's like, I don't know whatI'm looking at. I get that,
And to that point, it seemslike a lot of the curtains were drawn
(32:52):
back from our eyes, if youwill. Yeah, with some of the
shit portrayed in the movie, whichagain it's nineteen ninety three and it's PG
and after like a PG rating kindof carried a little more weight back then
because if you think about the factthat they said the fuck word in Beetlejuice
and that is a PG movie,Dude, that still blows my mind,
Like, and people forget that shit, they really do. Nice fucking model.
(33:19):
I don't love that line. Bythe way, it's funny as shit.
That's so crazy, Like I understandthat the what the context was,
so it's not like referring to sexualintercourse, but even still, how did
they get away with that? Itwas just the one time? Yeah,
but I thought that only accounts forPG thirteen. It also depends on context.
(33:39):
For PG it's very rare and aslike the one instance that it happened.
So is it just a matter oflike, oh no, all PG
movies can do it, They justdon't, yeah, because I mean they
run the risk of getting a harsherrating at that point too. And plus,
like you have to be very specificwith intent and wording. He wasn't
(34:00):
telling somebody fuck you, right,he wasn't using it in a sexual manner.
It was as a SpongeBob would havewould put it is a sentence enhanswer.
Yeah, I mean it makes sense. I'm just like, huh,
because that's another one too that ifyou would have asked me out, I
(34:21):
said, oh no, beatle JuicePG thirteen easy even without that line,
I don't know, I just wouldhave assumed. I know a lot of
people think that huh Manila effect.Yeah, and then believe this or not.
There are actually people out there thatI've talked to that fought Nightmare before
Christmas was PG thirteen, No kidding, absolutely, just based on the touchstone
(34:47):
context. I think, based onthe macabre aspect. I know, I
keep bringing that word up, butlike it really is like it it's dark
for a children's movie. It isdark. It is Mandela effect into play.
If you were to have asked mewhat this movie was rated, I
really wouldn't know. I'd be like, ge, PG, is it G?
(35:08):
I don't know, Like I reallywouldn't have known, but right,
because I mean if you think aboutlike stuff that we watch now that's rated
PG and then G, it's likethis markedly feels tame. Yeah, like
and again there's nothing bad in itor inappropriate or the only real thing would
be, like I keep bringing upis the self stitching. And that didn't
(35:31):
even bother me or make me uncomfortable. It's just like that's the one moment
where I'm like I could see thatmaking some of like the NPAA like little
weary. You know, like allright, well, I you know,
like you might have to negotiate withthem, but you could probably have gotten
it to be rated. G Idon't know, like we'll get back into
(35:54):
the movie. But like, speakingof that, the bamboos of Disney bruh,
because like all the shit that welove about this movie, all the
visuals and everything, it's like,dude, if Disney really had their fucking
way, we probably wouldn't have gottenhalf the shit that we get in this
movie. The fact that they pitchedthis right, So Caroline Thompson, I
(36:19):
believe it was her. Somebody screenthis for the Disney execs and they're like,
oh, we love this. Andthey still had some you know,
obviously some placeholders and storyboards in certainspots, and they're like, we fucking
love this. And she's like,aha, And there's the problem. This
is not an eighteen million dollar movie. This is a twenty four million dollar
movie. We need more money.And without the money, you get none
(36:44):
of this. You get not this, not that, not that thing over
there that you love so much,and definitely not this fuck an entire story
arc bruh. So if they hadsaid no for some unbeknownst reason, what
would have even been Would they havejust made it like a TV special that
(37:06):
lasted thirty minutes? They would havehad to because we wouldn't have had fuck
all to work with. Yeah,because the movie's already extremely lean. What
is it like seventy five minutes long? It's like an hour and like I
don't know, like an hour andfifteen sixteen minutes and that's fucking short.
That's including credits, dude. Yeah, like it's a very short movie.
Also, like I don't understand whyTim Burton didn't step in a little bit
(37:32):
more in order to kind of belike, hey, we shouldn't even have
had to have this discussion, likefor historical purposes. I'm glad it worked
out with that story because it's balleras fuck. You finessed Disney into giving
you fucking more millions more dollars.It's awesome, But why didn't they just
(37:55):
get Tim Burton, who was ontop of the world at the time,
till like interject or something you wanthis team? Yeah, they were too
busy doing what they were told todo by Tim, which just handle it
because he was he was too busy, like fucker was in a contract with
(38:17):
Warner Brothers, like at the sametime trying to do the Batman sequel,
and like, goddamn, it's prettymuch like the version of like, don't
talk to me right now, I'mbusy, and then like when he finally
had to, it was just like, oh God, Like there are stories
about this man attacking an editing machineand kicking holes in the walls and shit
over either the scripting or the finishof the movie or like literally any aspect
(38:44):
of it where he wasn't their handson. But goddamn it, he had
a vision. Nonetheless, and notto take away from Henry Sellick, who
did a fantastic job delivering this,but like again and going all the way
back has got his fingerprints all overit. We would have had markedly different
film had they not fucking bamboozled theshit out of the Mouse. Yeah,
(39:04):
Like we wouldn't even be talking aboutit, probably because if they were to
have cut out, like even theycut out ten minutes of it, I
feel like so much character development wouldhave been lost that I can't imagine a
ten minutes shorter movie, much lessof twenty minutes probably wouldn't have cared.
(39:29):
Yeah, and the fact that evenafter all this shit, Caroline Thompson wanted
to have it reshot for a differentending. And then then like Tim Burt
was like no, fuck that,We're we keep the ending that's in here,
which we'll get to. What didthey ever report on what her ending
would have been. I don't believeso, but I know that the ending
(39:50):
we got was that Jack realizes,in being shot down and having everything like
going chaos, He's like, Istill got it. I just need to
do some different, you know,ways of doing it, But I still
got it. I have the itchagain to fucking scare And he's like,
but fuck, I gotta make thisright. So when he goes back to
(40:10):
Halloween town Man, Santa Claus andSally, who was trying to save him
are in the clutches of Oogie Boogeyman, and we get to the finale,
which it's a little nah. Ikind of expected more, but I also
get how they did what they did. So the Ugie Boogeyman is really just
a bunch of bugs in a sackthat make up his entire being. Jack
(40:31):
Skellington like throws a thread from himinto this machinery that's going in circles,
and he unravels and his bugs spewout everywhere, and there's a shot whether
falling into that like lava or whatever. The fuck that he was gonna dump
Santa Claus into and it's just likespinning. That's one of the only shots
in the movie where I'm like,that is not stop motion like that is
(40:52):
then you can tell like that isactually a thing that's happening, and if
people are just dropping shit into andmm hm. But anyway, they get
saved. Jack apologizes to Santa andSanta's just like, man, he fucked
it up and say it. Hewas like, fucked up, bitch.
Santa has to go replace all thepresence that Jack fucked up and Christmas Land
(41:13):
and then he's got his mojo ifyou will again. So he's he's back
to being the Pumpkin King and hehe and Sally express their feelings for each
other, and as a gift andto show there's no hard feelings, Santa
Claus brings snowfall to Halloween Town andgives them a little bit of Christmas spirit.
(41:34):
And it's when this happens that thecitizens understand what the meaning of Christmas
is. And then Jack and Sallyhave the iconic you know shot. It's
it's all over a lot of theposters where they're they're on that hill or
whatever, and that's where like theyshare their kiss and like they're you know,
singing, and like it's the endof the movie. But it's a
great shot, it is. That'sone thing that I did love about this
(42:00):
movie for being a stop motion.There's a lot of great shots in this
movie. And I think, uh, there was a production note where there
were to be no right angles inthe fucking set designs and shit, which
is correct that you know, afterlearning that, it makes so much sense.
Like you see the the architecture,if you will, of all the
(42:20):
buildings and all the housing and allof like the fences, and nothing is
like straight across. Everything is verylike angled and just fucking gothic as shit.
What a movie though, for real, honestly, I'm glad they never
have remade this or have tried toreimagine it. It doesn't seem like it
(42:42):
needs to be. It's it's it'stimeless, really right, the really the
only thing that is a nippick thatI would have And again, this is
one of my favorite movies. Buthonestly, just add like five minutes maybe,
like I feel like there's some thingshere and there that I would have
(43:02):
liked a little bit more of.You know, like, is there one
thing in particular you would have likeadded a little more up, So,
for one, the whole Jack andSally thing, you get the sense throughout
that Sally is into Jack. ButI feel like Jack's turn was very sudden.
I don't know. I think maybehe did feel that way. But
(43:24):
Jack also kind of has that attitudeof like, sure he knows what's up
with certain shit, but he comesoff aloof a lot of the time,
really right. But that's what I'msaying, is like just a little bit
more development on that arc. OrI don't know, maybe you had brought
(43:45):
up like you felt that ending withOugi Boogie was a little in to you,
Like do you mean the climactic battleor the or is it the reveal
of what Ugi Boogie is. Ithink it's the battle itself. It's not
necessarily like what Ookie Bookie is,because what he is, that's what makes
him kind of frightening and kind ofscary and shit. I think for me,
(44:07):
it's like there's not a lot ofaction, which I get it,
I get it, I get it. That's a lot to animate. Oh
dude, I wouldn't want that task, but I don't think it would have
hurt to have a little more ballsthere. Mm hmm. Yeah, for
me, it would just be theJack and Sally thing and then you know,
(44:29):
uh really that that's about it.Just show more of them, you
know, like like you want theirromance a little more fleshed out. Yes,
Like I would have loved that.And you don't even need a full
five minutes. You could honestly havedone that in like one to two little
(44:49):
scenes, you know. Yeah,And I get that it's supposed to come
across like maybe Sally feels like itmight be an unrequited love, which it's
not. But I also agree withwhat you're saying, like I would love
to have seen that too, becausethere's no sweet yeah, and there's like
there's enough story going on elsewhere thatit it wouldn't have gone like it wouldn't
have come across as forced you know. No that that might have been like
(45:15):
the one thing that could have beenamplified. But all in all, God
damn what a movie though. Ohdude, love love love this movie.
Yeah, it's a staple for me, and I know for YouTube. This
is a staple for Halloween and Christmas, which year for both. Yeah,
me too. I've already seen itlike it normally, Like I can watch
(45:36):
this, you know, year round. It's fun, but like you know,
we all start watching it more duringthe holidays. I think I've already
seen this movie like five times thisyear, and that's not including the thousand
other times I've seen this on abitch. But yeah, that's Uh.
Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas thatit came out on October the thirteenth,
nineteen ninety three. Come back nextweek. Uh. Trevor from the Catching
(45:59):
Up on Cinema podcast is going tohang out and talk about Silent Night Deadly
Night Part two. I was mostrecently on his podcast talking about Godzilla minus
one. Check that shit out,but come here next week. Check out
his guest appearance on Called Cinemas Saturday. Are there any spoilers in that review
from god Zilla minus one? Absolutely, we spoil the absolute shit out of
(46:22):
it. Okay, I will keepthat in mind, That's right, So
yeah, spoilers bound. After that, we will be yes, I swear
on everything I am doing it.I will be being as objective as I
possibly can to talk about a Christmasstory from Bob Clark, who I think
(46:43):
did the best Christmas movie, BlackChristmas. Then after that, Devin,
you and I are going to sitdown and we're going to give the gift
of Christmas to everybody. For ourChristmas Day episode, which is going to
be Earnest Safes Christmas, let's go. We actually have a variety, if
(47:04):
you will, this entire fucking holidayseason. A couple things for the kids,
a couple things for the nostalgia,and the hot garbage. There's a
little bit of everything here. Yeah, yeah, I could seize it.
You can season. Let's get thefuck out of here, man, everybody
out there. Listen to past presidentand future episodes on supermedia brospodcast dot com.
(47:24):
You can go to the show notesBlow and click a link and go
there. You can also click thelink on our YouTube channel and the show
What's Blow and subscribe to that shit. If you haven't already, or if
you're watching this on YouTube, giveus a thumbs up and leave a comment
in the comment section. What didyou love the most about this movie?
What was your first time seeing TheNightmare before Christmas? Is it one of
(47:45):
your favorite movies of all time?Could it have been better? Do you
not like it? Give us anythingin the fucking feedback below, leave us
a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Good Pods, and Podchaser,
And like we've said before, comeback next week for more fun for
Santa Media bros. Let's do it. But for right now, we're gonna
(48:07):
get the hell out of here,and uh, I'm gonna go have some
motherfucking hot cocoa and Marshmallows. Ithink it calls for it. Dude,
have you gone to a Starbucks andgotten the hot white chocolate? You know
what? Fuck the hot coco withMarkrellows. Let's go get that, dude.
It's so fucking good. All right, let's go, ty bet.
(48:28):
Thank you guys for hanging out withus this week. This was Tim Burton's
The Nightmare Before Christmas, episode threehundred and three on Colt Cinemas Saturday until
next week. I'm Richie shades onWe're All or Slaves, slays on Yeah, slays on
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