August 27, 2018 • 49 mins
Sasha reads through the Circle Notebook.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Over
about Dissociative IdentityDisorder. If you are new to the
podcast, we recommend startingat the beginning episodes and
listen in order to hear ourstory and what we have learned
through this endeavor. Currentepisodes may be more applicable
to long time listeners and arelikely to contain more advanced
(00:32):
topics, emotional or othertriggering content, and or
reference earlier episodes thatprovide more context to what we
are currently learning andexperiencing. As always, please
care for yourself during andafter listening to the podcast.
Thank you.
(01:01):
So the last thing we weresharing was about learning about
internal worlds. And not justthat that's a thing, but that we
have power to make changes inour internal world or internal
landscape. So one of the thingsthat we talked about was putting
(01:25):
in a bell. And what I mean bythat is in our particular
internal world, there's sort ofa farm setting because that's
where we grew up. But across thepasture is a safe house that was
a safe house for us when we werelittle.
And we're trying to kind of keepthat a safe house, right? But on
the porch is a bell, and that'swhere she used to ring the bell
(01:49):
to call her husband in from thefields, like for dinner. And so
I thought, what if we put a bellin the pasture or in other
places to sort of say, this is asafe place to gather or to sort
of lead the way to this safehouse. Like we are not so far
(02:13):
advanced yet that we can just goin rescuing people, but we're
getting closer to that. Andwe're trying to start
recognizing where people are andwhat's going on.
And so that was the bell idea.So one thing I talked about in
the last podcast with the bellidea was that we had to be
careful with things like that,because what if something
(02:35):
triggered someone else that wedidn't know was a triggering
thing for them? And so we wantto be sure that any changes we
do within our internal world,like inside on the landscape, is
okay with everybody. And so wedo need to talk to everybody as
much as we can, which is reallyhard for us because we're new to
being able to do that. Butdouble checking that
(02:59):
everything's okay and gettingfeedback in the ways that you
can is really helpful.
So one of the things that we gotfeedback about was that while
the bell for us, for our system,is not necessarily a particular
trigger, it may be that noteverybody inside knows they can
(03:20):
hear a bell. So the reason forthat is because the body is
actually deaf. We have cochlearimplants, which means that we
can hear pretty well now one onone. It means I can do things
like a podcast, but it alsomeans that there are younger
ones that don't know yet that wecan hear or how to hear with the
(03:42):
cochlear implants. And so wealso need, besides the bell,
even though that's an okay idea,we also need something visual
for our system.
And so after group on two soafter group the other day, when
we had learned about all ofthis, one of the ideas that we
had was Christmas lights orholiday lights, how whichever
(04:06):
way you wanna say For us,Christmas is less triggering
than the other. But ourtherapist in a session a while
back helped put Christmas lightsin one of the rooms for one of
the littles who did not want tobe left alone in the dark. So
we're trying to get her out ofthat room, but even while we are
(04:28):
still doing the work of learninghow to do that, we can at least
make her feel more safe andcomfortable and less alone. And
so we put these Christmas lightsup, we hung them up in her room
so that she would remember thatthe therapist is real, so that
she would know now time is safe,and so that we could find her
(04:48):
again, and all these differentpieces for the reason that was
helpful, right? So John had theidea of what if we put up more
Christmas lights in otherplaces?
And then he took a step furtherbecause he saw the movie A Quiet
Place with the husband. And Idon't know if you've seen that
(05:09):
movie or not, and I'm not tryingto trigger anybody or give away
the movie, but the movie has init, it's kind of a scary movie,
but we thought it was super fun.But the movie has the main
character is a girl withcochlear implants. And for
different reasons, you'll justhave to watch the movie, but for
different reasons, the familyhas on their land a system of
(05:34):
Christmas lights that are allconnected all around the
property. And so we thought,what if we did a similar thing
as in that movie, and it couldwork for us sort of as a warning
system the way it does in themovie.
So when there's danger or athreat or someone needs help,
those lights can turn red. Andwhen the therapist is helping or
(06:01):
available or talking to us orpeople need to pay attention if
they can or want to, then theyturn white. So this is one thing
that we've been working on. It'snot finished yet, but we're
getting it set up and it's kindacool so far. And I think it's
gonna be really cool.
(06:22):
I think it's gonna be a goodthing, but it's a lot harder
work than I thought. And I feelsilly saying that out loud
because it seems like such smallthings, like such a tiny thing.
But it's really kind of a bigdeal, and it's kind of hard
work, and we kind of have to goto some creepy places to get the
lights installed. And like, howdoes that work? Because I
(06:42):
thought it was just all myimagination, but also it's like
bigger than that, and it's morethan that.
And I really do not have thevocabulary or experience to
explain it more than that. Butthat's what we've been working
on this week. So we're workingon getting this Christmas light
system set up, both for warningsand for help, for knowing when
(07:06):
to listen to our therapist andthings like that. That's kind of
exciting, and I'm glad we have alot to do because it's about to
snow here again all weekend,which means we're going to miss
another session on Monday. Soit's super frustrating because
we keep missing sessions becauseof the weather.
As you guys know, our therapistlives four hours away. And so
(07:32):
takes an entire day to getthere. And we get two hours for
a session, which is amazing. Andthen we have to drive four hours
home again. And so it's a bigdeal and we're on the road a
lot, so we can't go if theroad's not safe.
And also it's a trigger for usbecause that's how the mother
(07:54):
died. So we are really carefulabout being on the road and
traveling, and that means we'regonna miss therapy this week,
which is not cool at all. Butalso maybe cool because we're
kind of in an intense andvulnerable space and feeling a
little bit scared of therapy allof sudden, which is a new
(08:17):
feeling, and I'm not sure whatthat's about. And I don't know
whether to explore that more orjust let it be or to tell her or
not tell her. But I feel likebecause there's been a lot
happening the last couple ofweeks, we should totally just
retreat and leave her alonebecause we need her long term.
I don't want to burn her outnow. So there's that. The other
(08:40):
big piece that we've beenworking on, because of learning
from this group we're doingabout the need to communicate
with each other and find ways tofigure out how to communicate
and at least meet each other andtry to find each other a little
bit inside, which again, atleast from my perspective,
discovering the whole internalworld thing has for the first
(09:03):
time kind of even made thatpossible. Like, I don't know how
to do it yet. I don't know whereeverybody is yet, but at least
the concept is there and I'mtrying to figure it out.
So one thing we did was startanother notebook. Those of you
who listen know that we alreadyuse just regular notebooks like
(09:24):
spiral notebooks because we justhave so much to get out and so
we fill up one or two of those aweek for therapy already anyway.
And then we leave them with herand she reads them and we get a
new notebook and write again andfill up another one. So while
we're continuing to use thenotebooks for our journaling, we
(09:44):
also got an additional notebookthat is for a specific project
this time. Now, this is thefirst time we've tried this, so
I don't know how it's gonna go.
And also, please keep in mind,this isn't like something we
accomplished in forty minutes todo a podcast. Like we have been
working up towards this for awhole year, or really twenty
(10:05):
years, depending on how you lookat things. And it's been a very
intense week while we've been inthis group and while we're
learning about the internalworld. And so even just what
we've done so far has taken allweek to write out, but a whole
(10:25):
year or twenty to prepare. SoI'm not saying that it's that
easy to get started, but we'refinally at least to this place
and have made it this far, and Iwanna share what we've done.
So one of the big things that'simportant for us, if you've
heard the podcast that John hasdone talking about NTIS, which
(10:48):
stands for Now Time is Safe. Sonow in the present, we are safe.
Memory time, which is in thepast, may not have been safe.
And it may even feel like thepresent because there are some
people who are still stuck intime. But as we become more
present with our presence, whichwe learned from group today, we
(11:12):
get more connected to what thenow time is and get more of us
connected to now time.
But for us it's still new andwe're still trying hard and we
need that reminder. So we oftenhave to write NTIS on our hand
or in our notebook or asreminders around the place to
keep that in mind. So at the topof the first page in the
(11:35):
notebook, the new notebookthat's for this communication
exercise, we wrote specificallyN T I S in big bold letters.
I'll put a picture of it on theblog. And then we wrote it out,
now time is safe.
And then to be sure that anyonewho saw this understood what was
going on, we wrote a little bitof an introduction about our
(12:02):
surroundings and our context inthe present. Now this is an idea
we actually got from one ofSarah Clark's videos on power to
the plurals, and if I could findthat video on her channel again,
I will link to it. But Ihonestly have no idea what it
was called, so I don't know if Ican find it. I will try and ask
them and see if they can tell mewhat the link is. But
(12:24):
specifically, it's writing atthe beginning of the journal,
whether you're doing bulletjournaling or a different
exercise like this is, or anyother kind, of including a front
page that anyone could easilysee just to orient them a little
bit.
So this says, Hello, thisnotebook is to get to know each
other a bit. You can still writeall you want in the other
(12:45):
notebooks. If you are new orlearning, we are safe. The
parents are dead. We live in asafe place.
The husband is safe. Thechildren we have are safe. And
we talk to our therapist and sheis safe. You can text her or
email or write, and then hercontact information is there.
(13:07):
And then the next page is like aquestionnaire.
It's basically like I'm wantingto interview some of them in a
non intrusive, no pressure kindof way, and on paper, so that
anyone who wanted to reply coulddo so in their own way, in their
own time. So mine has 14questions I thought of just as a
(13:30):
starting place, and it says Imean, it asks about the name and
the age, but then it says, wheredo you live? Can you see the
rest of us? Can you hear therest of us? Who do you already
know inside?
Who can you talk to inside? Whotalks to you? Have you met or
(13:51):
seen the therapist? Have youtalked to the therapist or want
to talk to the therapist? Whatdo you like or not like?
What do you need? What helps youfeel safe? What do you want us
to know about you? Is thereanything else we need to know?
And is there anything you'reafraid of?
(14:12):
So basically, it's 14 questions,and then we left it with pages
in between each person's answerso that if we need to write or
converse at all or if someonewants to go back and add
something later, there's room todo that. So when I turn the
(14:35):
page, there's one more sort ofinformational sheet with a few
pages add as we go over time.And it says things we all need
to know. And then again, thefirst thing is now time is safe.
And it says memory time is inthe past, it is not happening
now.
Now time is safe. Our new houseis safe, the husband is safe,
(14:56):
the therapist is safe, thechildren are safe, meaning the
outside kids. And everybody'snames and phone numbers are
listed there. Well, thechildren's, they don't have
phones yet. And then the nextthing it says is, The mother and
father are dead.
If you hear or see them, it ismemory time. They cannot get to
us in now time. They are gone.They are dead. And then we wrote
(15:21):
that anyone can talk to thetherapist and anyone can write
in the notebooks.
Oh, interesting. And then here'ssomeone who's added. Oh,
interesting, I never would havethought of this. So someone has
added that the therapist isreally safe, but if you are in
her office, you will sometimeshear sounds outside the door.
(15:44):
Don't be scared.
The receptionist has tosometimes make her lunch or do
filing work, but she's reallyvery nice and our friend. There
are also other people who cometo other offices in the same
office building. So I guess justreminding us because we could
startle or get triggered fromhearing those sounds, I guess,
(16:06):
so somebody knew that someoneelse needed to know that. So
that's cool. I didn't even knowthat that was in there.
Okay. So then the first entrythat we actually got is from the
good doctor, and she writes hername and she says she's 36 years
old, and then she answered thequestions like numbered one
(16:28):
through 14. So that's kind ofcool. Let's look. It says,
number one, inside, I live in alibrary in the neighbor's house.
It is a safe house. It's acrossthe pasture if you follow the
trail by the fence, the same aswalking to the bus stop. In the
house, the library is the seconddoor on the left if you come in
by the porch door. Oh, that'scool. So she even told me how to
(16:52):
find her.
I don't wanna find her. She'skinda boring, I also don't wanna
hang out in the library, butthere you go. You can get some
directions. And then it saysnumber two and number three. I
did not know how to see or hearthe others, but I do now.
If I'm in the library, I cannothear or see because it is quiet
there, and I need it quiet to domy work. I have to leave my room
(17:15):
to talk to the others, thoughboth oh, and then she mentions
two names. Both of them haveslipped notes under my door at
different times. That's crazysauce. I didn't even know they
could do that.
And then she mentions that she'smet me and that she regularly
speaks with a different one andwith John. And she sometimes
(17:38):
sees the children playing, Andthe one who paints, she sees out
on the porch. The others, onlyknow about from the things these
have said something or if theyhave come to visit the library.
And then there's one particularI don't remember the name for
that kind of altar but oneparticular job. That person is
(18:01):
the only one who's ever comeinto the library.
Okay, cool. I didn't know thatthat was a thing. Like this is
blowing my mind this week. Infact, we hardly ever sleep very
well, like a couple hours at atime and we are up through the
night with nightmares and withinternal dramas and not being
able to sleep and since we'vebeen working on this notebook we
(18:24):
have slept for like fourteenhours a night. I am not kidding!
So whatever is going on with allthese Christmas lights and the
bells and this notebook and theinterviews, like, it's huge
because it's totally changedeverything and clearly worn us
out because we are sleeping.Does anyone else get tired after
(18:46):
doing therapy stuff? Okay, thenquestion seven and eight is she
says, I've met the therapist andspoken with her briefly. It's
hard for me to find opportunityto do so. Oh, because we're
always stealing time, think.
That's it. I'm not very good attaking turns. When I do, I feel
guilty for taking time for moreimportant matters. I also try to
(19:06):
stay out of the way because Idon't want to think I am helping
but really be messing things up.Oh, that's kind of how I feel
about the bell and the Christmaslights.
I'm also hesitant to reach outbetween sessions because I don't
want to be more work when forher oh, the therapist, when
she's already done so much forus. Okay. So what do you like?
(19:30):
She likes quiet, bright roomsand books. Boring.
And what does she need? Shedoesn't say anything she doesn't
like. Probably just me. She'stoo polite to say so. Number 10.
All I need is the morning hoursto work so we can pay our bills
and fresh vegetables. Eatingwell helps me think more
(19:51):
clearly. Gross. I can't believeyou put that in there. We do not
need more vegetables.
This one is like a vegetarian,you guys. And John and I are not
vegetarians and we are hungryall the time, which, can I say,
for the littles is kind of atrigger? So even though you may
be laughing at us, it's actuallya legitimate issue that we still
(20:12):
have not worked out. So that's awhole separate podcast. Number
11, I feel safe when the billsare paid.
I feel safe when others are okayenough I can sit and read. I
feel safest at the hotel by thetherapist's office. Oh burn. So
does that mean she doesn't feelsafe at the house? Like why is
(20:32):
that or what does that mean?
I don't even know. Like becauseit's too chaotic here probably.
Because we have a lot of kidsinside and out so we're probably
just too noisy for her here.Number 12: I went to school, I
work, I pay the bills. I don'teven remember what question
number 12 was.
What do you want us to knowabout you? Oh, so she's the one
(20:54):
who went to school, she's theone who has the job, which we do
from home, and I pay the bills.Okay, yeah, she's the one who
gives me my allowance, so letthe woman work. What are you
afraid of? I am afraid ofhelping too much or learning too
much that I won't be able tofunction or work.
(21:17):
I hadn't even thought of that.That's why she doesn't come
around us. That's why she's notparticipating a lot. She doesn't
want us to, like, mess up herability to provide for us. I
never thought about that.
Okay. Do you see why my brain isexploding here? Like, why this
(21:40):
is a big deal? Okay. So John didthe next one, and it says okay.
What are the questions? Where doyou live? I live in the attic of
the old house. And then answerstwo and three just say, yep.
(22:03):
Yep.
What? Oh, can you see the restof us? Can you hear the rest of
us? Okay. So he knows the restof us, which makes sense with
what his job is.
He can that little dude can getaround. Four through six. Who do
you already know? Who can hetalk to? Who talks to you?
He wrote, I know everybodylittler than me. I know
everybody who was as little asme but grew up. Like the doctor
(22:29):
and then me. I don't know allthe grown ups. I feel like he
just I know he's a kid, but Ifeel like once again he said
something that just totally wentover my head that I can't
process right now.
It's like I read it and then mymind went blank. Like, it got
erased as fast as I read it.Number seven and eight. Have you
(22:52):
met or seen a therapist ortalked to the therapist? Oh,
yeah.
They're buddies. Okay. He wrote,I love her. She's my buddy. I
always want to talk to her, butnow I gotta share and take
turns.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. He could just hecould just see her all the time.
What do you like, salsa? What doyou not like kissing?
(23:15):
Okay. That's funny. I feel likewe're doing an unboxing except
from ourselves. This is awesome.What do you need?
Food. What makes you feel safe?Food. What do you want us to
know about you that I amstinking smart? I didn't
(23:37):
understand the question for 13.
What are you afraid of? I'mafraid of the woods and those
over there, so I don't want tobe 13. 13. Yikes. Oh, and then
he added something on the nextpage with a different date.
So then yesterday he added, alsoI need pants. This is because of
(24:03):
an ongoing drama about leggings.Some of us like leggings and
some of us do not like leggings.And John is on the side of
leggings are not pants and stopleaving me naked out in the
world. Okay, so the boy needssome pants.
(24:27):
We will keep that in mind. Oh,wow. Okay. So then a little
wrote on the next one, and it'sactually really hard for me to
read. I mean hard like hard tounderstand what is written.
(24:48):
I think I will skip this. Idon't feel like I have
permission to share her stuff.She likes stickers. Oh, that's
good to know. The girl needssome stickers.
So far, we need some pants andsome stickers. Oh, she wrote a
lot of pages. Her handwriting'sbigger, though, so like, it's
(25:09):
little handwriting, So it takesmore pages. I'm gonna skip that.
I don't think I can deal withthat right now.
Oh, wow. So here's anotherlittle. This one is eight years
old. I'm not gonna say theirname, but when we wrote number
one about where do you live,this one wrote the town where we
(25:33):
used to live when everythinghappened. Oh, she likes the
Christmas lights we gave her.
Is there anything else that weneed to know about you? And she
(25:56):
wrote, I am waiting for myfather to come take me out of
here. Oh, that's not good. Okay.Let's turn the page.
I don't wanna try and do that.Okay. Here's another one. This
one's from a 13 year old. Ugh.
(26:17):
This is heartbreaking, you guys.I live alone in our house on the
farm next to my grandparents'farm. It feels alone because my
mother does not come to help me.Okay. That was a little more
(26:37):
successful than intended.
I didn't want to read thateither. We're gonna skip again.
Let's go back to more funthings. Six year old. Okay.
Also not. I mean okay. So thisis important stuff, and I'm glad
it worked, but it's way tooheavy for me and definitely not
stuff for just revealing on thepodcast. Right? So I'm gonna
(26:59):
skip some things, but I'm gladit's working, and that's a big
thing.
And it gets really helpful, andI think we need to go over it
with the therapist, and it'sprobably not public information
for everything to put out here,And maybe even a little bit too
(27:20):
much for me, like I'm feeling alittle shaky now, but Oh, this
one says, I don't want to tellyou where I live because I don't
want a bunch of scrawny littlekids running around my place. I
feel you. I feel you on thisone. I didn't think this kind of
(27:50):
stuff was gonna come out. Iwrote on mine that what makes me
feel safe are going out ondates.
I need some dates you guys!Okay, I'll be quiet. I'll be
appropriate. I've already beenreprimanded. I heard that.
Did you hear that? Maybe youcan't hear it, but I sure did.
Podcast is not for dating. Okay,so here's the one from the one
(28:15):
that's the mom. Oh.
So she knows about the podcast,and she's an adult. So we're
gonna snoop in her stuff. Shesaid, I'm 30 years old. Oh, I
thought she was older than that.What?
Okay. This notebook wasshocking. It was helpful, but it
(28:36):
was shocking. I cannot see theothers, but I think I can feel
them. I cannot hear them, butsometimes I think that I think I
feel their feelings.
I don't know if that's possible.What? Is that a thing, you guys?
Can somebody feel the othersinside, like their emotions or
their presence, but not hear orsee them yet? What?
(29:01):
I only know people through thenotebooks. The therapist says
don't be afraid that they aregood. I'm not good. I don't want
to get a bad rap here for beinggood. Sasha, Sasha, Sasha.
I have met the therapist andwritten in the notebooks a lot
or talked to her sometimes. Idon't know how to talk to her on
(29:25):
purpose. Oh yeah, so she alwaysis writing, I need to talk to
you about this in our nextsession. And then she doesn't
get to go because she doesn'tknow how to come out. So maybe
that would be an example oftrying to be helpful and give
her a turn and help her get outto talk to the therapist because
she's a hot mess.
I mean I'm a hot mess. She'slike an emo mess. I don't know.
(29:47):
What do I like? I like thingsclean and organized.
Messes stress me out. I don'tlike feeling out of control. It
makes me feel anxious. I needpeople to pick up their own
stuff when they are out and whenthey are finished with what
they're doing, like dishes,crayons, toys, clothes, please.
Oh, we're so busted.
(30:07):
That's me. The dishes are me. Imake snacks for the kids and the
husband because I'm like, weneed some real food here. And so
I make fun snacks and then Ijust leave it because I don't
want to clean it up. Butapparently the one who does
clean it up also doesn't want toclean it up.
Teamwork. I'm gonna need moreclasses. I don't think one or
(30:30):
two weeks of group is gonna beenough. I don't feel safe. I
don't like I'm always waitingfor the other shoe to drop, and
then it always does.
Oh, that's sad. What do you whatdo you want us to know about
you? I want you to know I don'tmean to be such a witch. Who?
Oh.
(30:53):
Also, I think it's my fault themother was killed. I'm really
sorry. Who? What? Okay.
So it's true we were supposed tobe driving her that day. This
may be too triggering for thepodcast. I don't know. We were
supposed to be driving her thatday, but we were super, super
what do you call it? Like,sickness?
(31:15):
We were pregnant, and we hadmorning sickness really bad. And
so we could not drive the motherthat day and didn't and then she
got killed. So there's like theysaid she has like some survivor
guilt or something and like it'sher fault the mother was killed
(31:37):
because she wasn't driving her.But it wasn't the mother's fault
she was killed either, it was adrunk driver. So she needs to
get over herself.
Or, Ugh, I got in trouble forthat. Like, yeah, we need to get
her to therapy. Okay. Not funny.Sorry.
We'll just skip this becausethat's a Debbie Downer. This
(32:02):
one, It's fun to match. Like,I've seen people's handwritings
in the other notebooks, butpeople don't always sign them.
And so sometimes I see stuff inthe notebooks, but I don't know
who wrote it. But now becausehere we're doing these
introductions, now I'm for thefirst time, like, able to match
some names to some of thehandwriting I see a lot.
(32:24):
This one is a little girl who's10. I can see the others if they
are not hiding. I can hear themif they talk to me, but some do
not know how. Oh, that's cool.She knows that.
I know everyone. I run errandsand messages for the oh. She's
also friends with the one whopaints. I didn't know that
(32:46):
either. I know a lot of thingsand even told the judge.
Oh, yay, foster care. Okay. Ican talk to anyone I want if
they say it is okay and ifTaylor don't catch me. Oh, yeah.
You guys, we had some Taylorissues over the whole drama with
(33:10):
the family services over theholiday, the break holiday.
That's probably why I wasTaylor. So I don't even know how
to go there or how to do apodcast about it without
triggering the heck out ofeverybody. So we're still
working on that, but we need totalk about it, at least with the
therapist if we can't talk aboutit with our friends. I've seen
(33:35):
the therapist two times, and Isaw her downstairs one time. Oh
she's the one who helped us findour therapist we have right now.
So when we were first diagnosedthe first time, like when we
were 17, we were with atherapist who no longer is in
practice now. But she supervisedthe therapist we have now. But I
(33:58):
guess she was in supervisionback when we were diagnosed the
first time, and so some of usremember her from then, which is
kind of cool, but not everybodyremembers her. I don't know if
that makes sense. What do youlike?
I like climbing trees andswinging and coloring. Cool. I
do not like shoes. What? Okay.
(34:23):
Shoes are not for tree climbing,I guess, is what we learn from
that. What do you need to feelsafe? I need to keep the
therapist and not lose her. Oh,sadness. We've lost so many
people, you guys, you know?
Therapist helps me feel safe.Hiding helps me feel safe, and
(34:45):
the bear helps me feel safe.See, again, another one that's
hiding on purpose, which isdifferent than just being stuck
from trauma. I mean I know it'sstill because of trauma but like
some of them feel safer there sowhen we're talking about
changing internal worldlandscaping or whatever the
words are like we need to becareful because not everyone
(35:07):
just wants a field of sunshineand sunflowers and horses. Like,
some people want to be able tohide.
So when we're making safe placesinside for everybody, that needs
to include places that are safefor hiding, but in safe hiding
places. Does that make sense? Asopposed to being, like, trapped
somewhere, I guess. What are youscared of? I'm scared of being
(35:36):
punished.
Aw, sweetheart. Here's the onefrom our painter. It's very
brief, there's not a lot ofwords, but there's a nice little
doodle at the top with a kiteand some flowers. I live in the
(35:57):
attic. I can see and hear whathappened to them.
I send pictures to the therapistif I draw or paint what they
remember. Oh, that's totallytrue. If we're having trouble
with a memory, she can draw orpaint it out to relieve some of
the pressure. Does that makesense? But I don't like hurting
when they remember.
I need them not to rememberbecause it hurts me. Oh, sad.
(36:22):
Ugh. This is heartbreaking. Thisis really hard to look through.
I am sister. I am nine. I haveto share a room with my brother.
I know John and Cassie andTaylor and Don. I can see and
hear them.
(36:42):
I saw the therapist once onaccident. She helped me. She
also told me I do not have tocall my brother back. I do not
like touching. I need my familynot to find me.
I do not feel safe. I am afraid.Oh, oh, my heart, you guys. If I
(37:03):
were a nice person, I would behelpful here. This one has such
fancy writing in cursive.
I almost can't read it. I don'tknow if I know how to read
cursive. I'm 36 years old. Ilive in the chapel. This is
(37:25):
where I wait because it's whereI used to work, but I don't know
where this is in relation to theothers or how to get around to
them.
I have seen and heard the othersat times and I'm eager to be of
some use or help in some way,but am unsure how to proceed. I
saw the message that John istrying to deliver newspapers
(37:48):
inside and the important idea ofwriting these introductions. I
it's hard to read. I am glad tohelp with that. I would also be
glad to escort him if there isany place he needs to go but
doesn't want to go alone.
Oh, that's nice. That's waynicer than me. I'm not going to
(38:09):
no creepy places. I have met thetherapist and found her helpful
and reassuring. I feel much moregrounded or centered after
speaking to her or even readingher messages to us.
I like helping, contributing,reaching out to those who need
help administering in some way.I do not like anyone being
(38:31):
bullied or excluded. Unlesslegit. Yay. Social justice.
I need more instruction on orprotocol or directing directions
as to what would be helpful,then I don't mind doing it, but
I am not confident in initiatingin this case because I am not
sure how it works internally orwhat would be helpful. I feel
(38:55):
safe because I know who God isand because he has said more
than anything else, do not beafraid. Well, I'm okay. Moving
on. Yeah.
Oh, Emma. Okay. So if you havelistened to the podcast about
(39:16):
the three Emmas, she actuallytalks about some of this right
here, like she went off like aregular journal. I don't know if
she knew what the journal wassupposed to be for. I don't
know, but let's read, shall we?
My name is Emma and I oh what?Okay this is what it says. I'm
(39:39):
just whatever. The three Ms.Here we go.
I thought it was Emma Z and Iwas 19. I thought it was Emma T
and I was 23. But I also know itis Emma S and I am 36. I
remember all of this at once asif all of it is true at the same
time. This is new for me.
(40:00):
I am three of me, not me, stillme, and only me all at once.
Okay. She's crazy. Honey, what?It is new for me to see them.
I have always heard them. Butnow also, I remember that I did
before even know them. Iremember the first therapist
(40:23):
teaching me more about them. Icould talk to them, but now I
feel shy somehow, like if theywill not remember me or somehow
it wasn't okay anymore to havesuch childhood fantasies. I can
assure you this is not apleasant fantasy in which we
live.
(40:43):
Okay. I've seen the therapist.She is very patient with me when
it is hard for me to talk. Shedoes not act irritated or angry
at me. She lets me ask questionsand tell her things.
She is helping me. I like Oh,she is answering the questions.
Okay. I like staying home andbeing with my children. But now
(41:04):
I also remember I like to run.
Oh, not run like Don, like in afive k. I mean, we're not cool
runners like in a marathon orsomething. We're not legit
runners. That was her thing. Sheused to run every morning and we
did a lot of five k's, which wascool for me because shocker if
you don't know they have beer atthe end of the run.
(41:27):
So it turns out even I would runfor beer. Except we don't drink
any alcohol anymore at all forlike nine years you guys. In
fact our sobriety anniversary iscoming up but I'm telling you
back in the day I would run forbeer. Well she can run and I
would drink the beer. How'sthat?
(41:47):
Okay. Focus, focus, focus. Wherewere we? I had friends and I
played softball and volleyballand that was not me, but it was.
I remember it now.
I don't like other things Iremember. When I remember being
Emma Z, there are many things Iremember about trying to be on
(42:09):
my own and homeless and notalways safe. I remember running
away when I was 17, life washard. I remember the therapist
telling me about DID and beingscared and sad. I also remember
with MST, and I even had to talkto the husband about it.
(42:31):
But then he said he alreadyknew, and we had safe rules for
everybody to have what theyneed. But I was shocked, and it
was hard to remember, exceptthen I did remember and was okay
with it, but was uncomfortablewith him because I remembered
that I did not want to marry aman. Who? I only dated girls.
Also la dee da.
(42:56):
Also, there were others who wereI also kept ending up in
relationships with alcoholics.So true. We stopped drinking
because we made a promise not tobecause we wanted to get out of
the world of dating other peoplewho were alcoholics. I don't
think that we were an alcoholic.I don't think that we had a
problem stopping, but I willtell you that when we did stop
(43:18):
drinking, this is me talking,I'm not reading this right now.
I will tell you that when westopped drinking alcohol, it was
shocking to see how many friendsthat we lost because they could
not function without alcohol.And so just because of a series
of domestic violencerelationships, we decided and
committed to no alcohol at all,and it has greatly improved our
(43:43):
friendships and relationships.So the husband does not drink at
all any alcohol, zero alcohol,we do not drink any alcohol, we
are not alcohol haters in fact Imyself as Sasha would be
entirely jealous if you get todrink alcohol and I do not. But
we have stuck to the promise andkept the deal, our end of the
(44:05):
deal, so that's legit but that'swhere it comes from because all
these people we were with werealcoholics and they could not
function with alcohol. The otherthing she writes that was also
true was that all of them werealso abused.
And so for whatever reason, Idon't know if you guys have
experienced this, we foundourselves in this crowd of very
sick people who were not well.And I don't mean like the online
(44:28):
groups where a bunch of peopleare trying to support each other
as they themselves do the hardwork of getting well. I mean,
like, these were people who hadnot started the process yet, and
it was very hard and veryenmeshed and very much trauma
drama, and we had plenty. And sowe finally just withdrew from
(44:49):
that as a whole. So I guess sheremembers that when we were
dating and drinking and had allthe fun that I wanted.
So a shout out to Emma T, whoused to be my best buddy. And
now where is she gone? Abandonme, that's what? I don't even
know what to do about it. Thetherapist has already said we're
(45:10):
gonna have to talk about thisbecause I'm not being very nice
about it, but I feel like myfriend is gone.
Except she's not gone, but it'sweird, and I don't know how to
respond to it yet, but that's awhole different podcast. I have
never even kissed him. I also Ido the kissing, you guys, and
now she knows it. I feel sobadly about it and so
conflicted. Worse, I realizedsomeone else who isn't me is
(45:32):
doing that with him, and I don'tknow who or what to do about it.
That's me, you guys. I'm thekisser. Okay. I'm not laughing
because it's funny nor do I meanto mock her. I am laughing
because I feel like I've beencaught red handed, except I'm
(45:56):
not doing anything wrong.
Mostly, like, that relationshipis so platonic. Like, she
doesn't even know because justour range okay. This needs to be
I need to make a list of all thedifferent podcasts we could talk
about just from what I learnedtoday. Like each of these things
is a huge other topic. So I knowI am very happy with the
(46:19):
husband, even if it's platonic.
And remembering those otherrelationships that were so
violent and dangerous and scary,I'm even more grateful for him.
So he and the therapist helpedme feel safe. The children
helped me feel safe. Blanketshelped me feel safe. Oh yeah,
it's a rainy, snowy day, so whodoesn't love blankets today?
(46:41):
Yes. Being at home or at thetherapist's office helps me feel
safe. What am I afraid of? I amafraid of what I don't know. You
and me too, sister.
Is that all? Oh, wow. Here's apoem just all by itself, like,
(47:05):
the very end. It says, wow, thisis really tiny writing. I am
dreaming all of this dreaming,lost in a box in the dark
watching it all happen to me,growing up without me, hearing
them scream, seeing them cry,feeling them shattered as I was
torn to pieces, ripped apart byhorrors I can't see or speak,
(47:30):
and no one coming to stop it orto help or comfort or rescue.
Even God could not save me. Nowa light of hope cannot be real.
A voice of help cannot be there.It must be a dream worse than
any nightmare I have alreadylived. I do not even know what
(47:50):
to do with that!
Okay, so that's what's in thenotebook so far and clearly it's
going to take me some time toprocess this and I need both a
beer and a therapist right now.That's what this has done to me.
I don't even have words for howI feel. Like part of it's
(48:15):
overwhelmed, part of it is likesick in my stomach, part of it
is completely delighted, part ofit is like excited that it's
actually working, and part of itis terrified because it's
working. I don't even know howto process this.
We're just going to let it sitand I'm going to stop because I
need to go freak out right now.Thanks for listening! Bye! Thank
(48:45):
you for listening. Your supportof the podcast, the workbooks,
and the community means so muchto us as we try to create
something together that's neverbeen done before, not like this.
Connection brings healing, andyou can join us on the community
at www.systemspeakcommunity.com.We'll see you there.
Over
about Dissociative IdentityDisorder. If you are new to the
podcast, we recommend startingat the beginning episodes and
listen in order to hear ourstory and what we have learned
through this endeavor. Currentepisodes may be more applicable
to long time listeners and arelikely to contain more advanced
(00:32):
topics, emotional or othertriggering content, and or
reference earlier episodes thatprovide more context to what we
are currently learning andexperiencing. As always, please
care for yourself during andafter listening to the podcast.
Thank you.
(01:01):
So the last thing we weresharing was about learning about
internal worlds. And not justthat that's a thing, but that we
have power to make changes inour internal world or internal
landscape. So one of the thingsthat we talked about was putting
(01:25):
in a bell. And what I mean bythat is in our particular
internal world, there's sort ofa farm setting because that's
where we grew up. But across thepasture is a safe house that was
a safe house for us when we werelittle.
And we're trying to kind of keepthat a safe house, right? But on
the porch is a bell, and that'swhere she used to ring the bell
(01:49):
to call her husband in from thefields, like for dinner. And so
I thought, what if we put a bellin the pasture or in other
places to sort of say, this is asafe place to gather or to sort
of lead the way to this safehouse. Like we are not so far
(02:13):
advanced yet that we can just goin rescuing people, but we're
getting closer to that. Andwe're trying to start
recognizing where people are andwhat's going on.
And so that was the bell idea.So one thing I talked about in
the last podcast with the bellidea was that we had to be
careful with things like that,because what if something
(02:35):
triggered someone else that wedidn't know was a triggering
thing for them? And so we wantto be sure that any changes we
do within our internal world,like inside on the landscape, is
okay with everybody. And so wedo need to talk to everybody as
much as we can, which is reallyhard for us because we're new to
being able to do that. Butdouble checking that
(02:59):
everything's okay and gettingfeedback in the ways that you
can is really helpful.
So one of the things that we gotfeedback about was that while
the bell for us, for our system,is not necessarily a particular
trigger, it may be that noteverybody inside knows they can
(03:20):
hear a bell. So the reason forthat is because the body is
actually deaf. We have cochlearimplants, which means that we
can hear pretty well now one onone. It means I can do things
like a podcast, but it alsomeans that there are younger
ones that don't know yet that wecan hear or how to hear with the
(03:42):
cochlear implants. And so wealso need, besides the bell,
even though that's an okay idea,we also need something visual
for our system.
And so after group on two soafter group the other day, when
we had learned about all ofthis, one of the ideas that we
had was Christmas lights orholiday lights, how whichever
(04:06):
way you wanna say For us,Christmas is less triggering
than the other. But ourtherapist in a session a while
back helped put Christmas lightsin one of the rooms for one of
the littles who did not want tobe left alone in the dark. So
we're trying to get her out ofthat room, but even while we are
(04:28):
still doing the work of learninghow to do that, we can at least
make her feel more safe andcomfortable and less alone. And
so we put these Christmas lightsup, we hung them up in her room
so that she would remember thatthe therapist is real, so that
she would know now time is safe,and so that we could find her
(04:48):
again, and all these differentpieces for the reason that was
helpful, right? So John had theidea of what if we put up more
Christmas lights in otherplaces?
And then he took a step furtherbecause he saw the movie A Quiet
Place with the husband. And Idon't know if you've seen that
(05:09):
movie or not, and I'm not tryingto trigger anybody or give away
the movie, but the movie has init, it's kind of a scary movie,
but we thought it was super fun.But the movie has the main
character is a girl withcochlear implants. And for
different reasons, you'll justhave to watch the movie, but for
different reasons, the familyhas on their land a system of
(05:34):
Christmas lights that are allconnected all around the
property. And so we thought,what if we did a similar thing
as in that movie, and it couldwork for us sort of as a warning
system the way it does in themovie.
So when there's danger or athreat or someone needs help,
those lights can turn red. Andwhen the therapist is helping or
(06:01):
available or talking to us orpeople need to pay attention if
they can or want to, then theyturn white. So this is one thing
that we've been working on. It'snot finished yet, but we're
getting it set up and it's kindacool so far. And I think it's
gonna be really cool.
(06:22):
I think it's gonna be a goodthing, but it's a lot harder
work than I thought. And I feelsilly saying that out loud
because it seems like such smallthings, like such a tiny thing.
But it's really kind of a bigdeal, and it's kind of hard
work, and we kind of have to goto some creepy places to get the
lights installed. And like, howdoes that work? Because I
(06:42):
thought it was just all myimagination, but also it's like
bigger than that, and it's morethan that.
And I really do not have thevocabulary or experience to
explain it more than that. Butthat's what we've been working
on this week. So we're workingon getting this Christmas light
system set up, both for warningsand for help, for knowing when
(07:06):
to listen to our therapist andthings like that. That's kind of
exciting, and I'm glad we have alot to do because it's about to
snow here again all weekend,which means we're going to miss
another session on Monday. Soit's super frustrating because
we keep missing sessions becauseof the weather.
As you guys know, our therapistlives four hours away. And so
(07:32):
takes an entire day to getthere. And we get two hours for
a session, which is amazing. Andthen we have to drive four hours
home again. And so it's a bigdeal and we're on the road a
lot, so we can't go if theroad's not safe.
And also it's a trigger for usbecause that's how the mother
(07:54):
died. So we are really carefulabout being on the road and
traveling, and that means we'regonna miss therapy this week,
which is not cool at all. Butalso maybe cool because we're
kind of in an intense andvulnerable space and feeling a
little bit scared of therapy allof sudden, which is a new
(08:17):
feeling, and I'm not sure whatthat's about. And I don't know
whether to explore that more orjust let it be or to tell her or
not tell her. But I feel likebecause there's been a lot
happening the last couple ofweeks, we should totally just
retreat and leave her alonebecause we need her long term.
I don't want to burn her outnow. So there's that. The other
(08:40):
big piece that we've beenworking on, because of learning
from this group we're doingabout the need to communicate
with each other and find ways tofigure out how to communicate
and at least meet each other andtry to find each other a little
bit inside, which again, atleast from my perspective,
discovering the whole internalworld thing has for the first
(09:03):
time kind of even made thatpossible. Like, I don't know how
to do it yet. I don't know whereeverybody is yet, but at least
the concept is there and I'mtrying to figure it out.
So one thing we did was startanother notebook. Those of you
who listen know that we alreadyuse just regular notebooks like
(09:24):
spiral notebooks because we justhave so much to get out and so
we fill up one or two of those aweek for therapy already anyway.
And then we leave them with herand she reads them and we get a
new notebook and write again andfill up another one. So while
we're continuing to use thenotebooks for our journaling, we
(09:44):
also got an additional notebookthat is for a specific project
this time. Now, this is thefirst time we've tried this, so
I don't know how it's gonna go.
And also, please keep in mind,this isn't like something we
accomplished in forty minutes todo a podcast. Like we have been
working up towards this for awhole year, or really twenty
(10:05):
years, depending on how you lookat things. And it's been a very
intense week while we've been inthis group and while we're
learning about the internalworld. And so even just what
we've done so far has taken allweek to write out, but a whole
(10:25):
year or twenty to prepare. SoI'm not saying that it's that
easy to get started, but we'refinally at least to this place
and have made it this far, and Iwanna share what we've done.
So one of the big things that'simportant for us, if you've
heard the podcast that John hasdone talking about NTIS, which
(10:48):
stands for Now Time is Safe. Sonow in the present, we are safe.
Memory time, which is in thepast, may not have been safe.
And it may even feel like thepresent because there are some
people who are still stuck intime. But as we become more
present with our presence, whichwe learned from group today, we
(11:12):
get more connected to what thenow time is and get more of us
connected to now time.
But for us it's still new andwe're still trying hard and we
need that reminder. So we oftenhave to write NTIS on our hand
or in our notebook or asreminders around the place to
keep that in mind. So at the topof the first page in the
(11:35):
notebook, the new notebookthat's for this communication
exercise, we wrote specificallyN T I S in big bold letters.
I'll put a picture of it on theblog. And then we wrote it out,
now time is safe.
And then to be sure that anyonewho saw this understood what was
going on, we wrote a little bitof an introduction about our
(12:02):
surroundings and our context inthe present. Now this is an idea
we actually got from one ofSarah Clark's videos on power to
the plurals, and if I could findthat video on her channel again,
I will link to it. But Ihonestly have no idea what it
was called, so I don't know if Ican find it. I will try and ask
them and see if they can tell mewhat the link is. But
(12:24):
specifically, it's writing atthe beginning of the journal,
whether you're doing bulletjournaling or a different
exercise like this is, or anyother kind, of including a front
page that anyone could easilysee just to orient them a little
bit.
So this says, Hello, thisnotebook is to get to know each
other a bit. You can still writeall you want in the other
(12:45):
notebooks. If you are new orlearning, we are safe. The
parents are dead. We live in asafe place.
The husband is safe. Thechildren we have are safe. And
we talk to our therapist and sheis safe. You can text her or
email or write, and then hercontact information is there.
(13:07):
And then the next page is like aquestionnaire.
It's basically like I'm wantingto interview some of them in a
non intrusive, no pressure kindof way, and on paper, so that
anyone who wanted to reply coulddo so in their own way, in their
own time. So mine has 14questions I thought of just as a
(13:30):
starting place, and it says Imean, it asks about the name and
the age, but then it says, wheredo you live? Can you see the
rest of us? Can you hear therest of us? Who do you already
know inside?
Who can you talk to inside? Whotalks to you? Have you met or
(13:51):
seen the therapist? Have youtalked to the therapist or want
to talk to the therapist? Whatdo you like or not like?
What do you need? What helps youfeel safe? What do you want us
to know about you? Is thereanything else we need to know?
And is there anything you'reafraid of?
(14:12):
So basically, it's 14 questions,and then we left it with pages
in between each person's answerso that if we need to write or
converse at all or if someonewants to go back and add
something later, there's room todo that. So when I turn the
(14:35):
page, there's one more sort ofinformational sheet with a few
pages add as we go over time.And it says things we all need
to know. And then again, thefirst thing is now time is safe.
And it says memory time is inthe past, it is not happening
now.
Now time is safe. Our new houseis safe, the husband is safe,
(14:56):
the therapist is safe, thechildren are safe, meaning the
outside kids. And everybody'snames and phone numbers are
listed there. Well, thechildren's, they don't have
phones yet. And then the nextthing it says is, The mother and
father are dead.
If you hear or see them, it ismemory time. They cannot get to
us in now time. They are gone.They are dead. And then we wrote
(15:21):
that anyone can talk to thetherapist and anyone can write
in the notebooks.
Oh, interesting. And then here'ssomeone who's added. Oh,
interesting, I never would havethought of this. So someone has
added that the therapist isreally safe, but if you are in
her office, you will sometimeshear sounds outside the door.
(15:44):
Don't be scared.
The receptionist has tosometimes make her lunch or do
filing work, but she's reallyvery nice and our friend. There
are also other people who cometo other offices in the same
office building. So I guess justreminding us because we could
startle or get triggered fromhearing those sounds, I guess,
(16:06):
so somebody knew that someoneelse needed to know that. So
that's cool. I didn't even knowthat that was in there.
Okay. So then the first entrythat we actually got is from the
good doctor, and she writes hername and she says she's 36 years
old, and then she answered thequestions like numbered one
(16:28):
through 14. So that's kind ofcool. Let's look. It says,
number one, inside, I live in alibrary in the neighbor's house.
It is a safe house. It's acrossthe pasture if you follow the
trail by the fence, the same aswalking to the bus stop. In the
house, the library is the seconddoor on the left if you come in
by the porch door. Oh, that'scool. So she even told me how to
(16:52):
find her.
I don't wanna find her. She'skinda boring, I also don't wanna
hang out in the library, butthere you go. You can get some
directions. And then it saysnumber two and number three. I
did not know how to see or hearthe others, but I do now.
If I'm in the library, I cannothear or see because it is quiet
there, and I need it quiet to domy work. I have to leave my room
(17:15):
to talk to the others, thoughboth oh, and then she mentions
two names. Both of them haveslipped notes under my door at
different times. That's crazysauce. I didn't even know they
could do that.
And then she mentions that she'smet me and that she regularly
speaks with a different one andwith John. And she sometimes
(17:38):
sees the children playing, Andthe one who paints, she sees out
on the porch. The others, onlyknow about from the things these
have said something or if theyhave come to visit the library.
And then there's one particularI don't remember the name for
that kind of altar but oneparticular job. That person is
(18:01):
the only one who's ever comeinto the library.
Okay, cool. I didn't know thatthat was a thing. Like this is
blowing my mind this week. Infact, we hardly ever sleep very
well, like a couple hours at atime and we are up through the
night with nightmares and withinternal dramas and not being
able to sleep and since we'vebeen working on this notebook we
(18:24):
have slept for like fourteenhours a night. I am not kidding!
So whatever is going on with allthese Christmas lights and the
bells and this notebook and theinterviews, like, it's huge
because it's totally changedeverything and clearly worn us
out because we are sleeping.Does anyone else get tired after
(18:46):
doing therapy stuff? Okay, thenquestion seven and eight is she
says, I've met the therapist andspoken with her briefly. It's
hard for me to find opportunityto do so. Oh, because we're
always stealing time, think.
That's it. I'm not very good attaking turns. When I do, I feel
guilty for taking time for moreimportant matters. I also try to
(19:06):
stay out of the way because Idon't want to think I am helping
but really be messing things up.Oh, that's kind of how I feel
about the bell and the Christmaslights.
I'm also hesitant to reach outbetween sessions because I don't
want to be more work when forher oh, the therapist, when
she's already done so much forus. Okay. So what do you like?
(19:30):
She likes quiet, bright roomsand books. Boring.
And what does she need? Shedoesn't say anything she doesn't
like. Probably just me. She'stoo polite to say so. Number 10.
All I need is the morning hoursto work so we can pay our bills
and fresh vegetables. Eatingwell helps me think more
(19:51):
clearly. Gross. I can't believeyou put that in there. We do not
need more vegetables.
This one is like a vegetarian,you guys. And John and I are not
vegetarians and we are hungryall the time, which, can I say,
for the littles is kind of atrigger? So even though you may
be laughing at us, it's actuallya legitimate issue that we still
(20:12):
have not worked out. So that's awhole separate podcast. Number
11, I feel safe when the billsare paid.
I feel safe when others are okayenough I can sit and read. I
feel safest at the hotel by thetherapist's office. Oh burn. So
does that mean she doesn't feelsafe at the house? Like why is
(20:32):
that or what does that mean?
I don't even know. Like becauseit's too chaotic here probably.
Because we have a lot of kidsinside and out so we're probably
just too noisy for her here.Number 12: I went to school, I
work, I pay the bills. I don'teven remember what question
number 12 was.
What do you want us to knowabout you? Oh, so she's the one
(20:54):
who went to school, she's theone who has the job, which we do
from home, and I pay the bills.Okay, yeah, she's the one who
gives me my allowance, so letthe woman work. What are you
afraid of? I am afraid ofhelping too much or learning too
much that I won't be able tofunction or work.
(21:17):
I hadn't even thought of that.That's why she doesn't come
around us. That's why she's notparticipating a lot. She doesn't
want us to, like, mess up herability to provide for us. I
never thought about that.
Okay. Do you see why my brain isexploding here? Like, why this
(21:40):
is a big deal? Okay. So John didthe next one, and it says okay.
What are the questions? Where doyou live? I live in the attic of
the old house. And then answerstwo and three just say, yep.
(22:03):
Yep.
What? Oh, can you see the restof us? Can you hear the rest of
us? Okay. So he knows the restof us, which makes sense with
what his job is.
He can that little dude can getaround. Four through six. Who do
you already know? Who can hetalk to? Who talks to you?
He wrote, I know everybodylittler than me. I know
everybody who was as little asme but grew up. Like the doctor
(22:29):
and then me. I don't know allthe grown ups. I feel like he
just I know he's a kid, but Ifeel like once again he said
something that just totally wentover my head that I can't
process right now.
It's like I read it and then mymind went blank. Like, it got
erased as fast as I read it.Number seven and eight. Have you
(22:52):
met or seen a therapist ortalked to the therapist? Oh,
yeah.
They're buddies. Okay. He wrote,I love her. She's my buddy. I
always want to talk to her, butnow I gotta share and take
turns.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. He could just hecould just see her all the time.
What do you like, salsa? What doyou not like kissing?
(23:15):
Okay. That's funny. I feel likewe're doing an unboxing except
from ourselves. This is awesome.What do you need?
Food. What makes you feel safe?Food. What do you want us to
know about you that I amstinking smart? I didn't
(23:37):
understand the question for 13.
What are you afraid of? I'mafraid of the woods and those
over there, so I don't want tobe 13. 13. Yikes. Oh, and then
he added something on the nextpage with a different date.
So then yesterday he added, alsoI need pants. This is because of
(24:03):
an ongoing drama about leggings.Some of us like leggings and
some of us do not like leggings.And John is on the side of
leggings are not pants and stopleaving me naked out in the
world. Okay, so the boy needssome pants.
(24:27):
We will keep that in mind. Oh,wow. Okay. So then a little
wrote on the next one, and it'sactually really hard for me to
read. I mean hard like hard tounderstand what is written.
(24:48):
I think I will skip this. Idon't feel like I have
permission to share her stuff.She likes stickers. Oh, that's
good to know. The girl needssome stickers.
So far, we need some pants andsome stickers. Oh, she wrote a
lot of pages. Her handwriting'sbigger, though, so like, it's
(25:09):
little handwriting, So it takesmore pages. I'm gonna skip that.
I don't think I can deal withthat right now.
Oh, wow. So here's anotherlittle. This one is eight years
old. I'm not gonna say theirname, but when we wrote number
one about where do you live,this one wrote the town where we
(25:33):
used to live when everythinghappened. Oh, she likes the
Christmas lights we gave her.
Is there anything else that weneed to know about you? And she
(25:56):
wrote, I am waiting for myfather to come take me out of
here. Oh, that's not good. Okay.Let's turn the page.
I don't wanna try and do that.Okay. Here's another one. This
one's from a 13 year old. Ugh.
(26:17):
This is heartbreaking, you guys.I live alone in our house on the
farm next to my grandparents'farm. It feels alone because my
mother does not come to help me.Okay. That was a little more
(26:37):
successful than intended.
I didn't want to read thateither. We're gonna skip again.
Let's go back to more funthings. Six year old. Okay.
Also not. I mean okay. So thisis important stuff, and I'm glad
it worked, but it's way tooheavy for me and definitely not
stuff for just revealing on thepodcast. Right? So I'm gonna
(26:59):
skip some things, but I'm gladit's working, and that's a big
thing.
And it gets really helpful, andI think we need to go over it
with the therapist, and it'sprobably not public information
for everything to put out here,And maybe even a little bit too
(27:20):
much for me, like I'm feeling alittle shaky now, but Oh, this
one says, I don't want to tellyou where I live because I don't
want a bunch of scrawny littlekids running around my place. I
feel you. I feel you on thisone. I didn't think this kind of
(27:50):
stuff was gonna come out. Iwrote on mine that what makes me
feel safe are going out ondates.
I need some dates you guys!Okay, I'll be quiet. I'll be
appropriate. I've already beenreprimanded. I heard that.
Did you hear that? Maybe youcan't hear it, but I sure did.
Podcast is not for dating. Okay,so here's the one from the one
(28:15):
that's the mom. Oh.
So she knows about the podcast,and she's an adult. So we're
gonna snoop in her stuff. Shesaid, I'm 30 years old. Oh, I
thought she was older than that.What?
Okay. This notebook wasshocking. It was helpful, but it
(28:36):
was shocking. I cannot see theothers, but I think I can feel
them. I cannot hear them, butsometimes I think that I think I
feel their feelings.
I don't know if that's possible.What? Is that a thing, you guys?
Can somebody feel the othersinside, like their emotions or
their presence, but not hear orsee them yet? What?
(29:01):
I only know people through thenotebooks. The therapist says
don't be afraid that they aregood. I'm not good. I don't want
to get a bad rap here for beinggood. Sasha, Sasha, Sasha.
I have met the therapist andwritten in the notebooks a lot
or talked to her sometimes. Idon't know how to talk to her on
(29:25):
purpose. Oh yeah, so she alwaysis writing, I need to talk to
you about this in our nextsession. And then she doesn't
get to go because she doesn'tknow how to come out. So maybe
that would be an example oftrying to be helpful and give
her a turn and help her get outto talk to the therapist because
she's a hot mess.
I mean I'm a hot mess. She'slike an emo mess. I don't know.
(29:47):
What do I like? I like thingsclean and organized.
Messes stress me out. I don'tlike feeling out of control. It
makes me feel anxious. I needpeople to pick up their own
stuff when they are out and whenthey are finished with what
they're doing, like dishes,crayons, toys, clothes, please.
Oh, we're so busted.
(30:07):
That's me. The dishes are me. Imake snacks for the kids and the
husband because I'm like, weneed some real food here. And so
I make fun snacks and then Ijust leave it because I don't
want to clean it up. Butapparently the one who does
clean it up also doesn't want toclean it up.
Teamwork. I'm gonna need moreclasses. I don't think one or
(30:30):
two weeks of group is gonna beenough. I don't feel safe. I
don't like I'm always waitingfor the other shoe to drop, and
then it always does.
Oh, that's sad. What do you whatdo you want us to know about
you? I want you to know I don'tmean to be such a witch. Who?
Oh.
(30:53):
Also, I think it's my fault themother was killed. I'm really
sorry. Who? What? Okay.
So it's true we were supposed tobe driving her that day. This
may be too triggering for thepodcast. I don't know. We were
supposed to be driving her thatday, but we were super, super
what do you call it? Like,sickness?
(31:15):
We were pregnant, and we hadmorning sickness really bad. And
so we could not drive the motherthat day and didn't and then she
got killed. So there's like theysaid she has like some survivor
guilt or something and like it'sher fault the mother was killed
(31:37):
because she wasn't driving her.But it wasn't the mother's fault
she was killed either, it was adrunk driver. So she needs to
get over herself.
Or, Ugh, I got in trouble forthat. Like, yeah, we need to get
her to therapy. Okay. Not funny.Sorry.
We'll just skip this becausethat's a Debbie Downer. This
(32:02):
one, It's fun to match. Like,I've seen people's handwritings
in the other notebooks, butpeople don't always sign them.
And so sometimes I see stuff inthe notebooks, but I don't know
who wrote it. But now becausehere we're doing these
introductions, now I'm for thefirst time, like, able to match
some names to some of thehandwriting I see a lot.
(32:24):
This one is a little girl who's10. I can see the others if they
are not hiding. I can hear themif they talk to me, but some do
not know how. Oh, that's cool.She knows that.
I know everyone. I run errandsand messages for the oh. She's
also friends with the one whopaints. I didn't know that
(32:46):
either. I know a lot of thingsand even told the judge.
Oh, yay, foster care. Okay. Ican talk to anyone I want if
they say it is okay and ifTaylor don't catch me. Oh, yeah.
You guys, we had some Taylorissues over the whole drama with
(33:10):
the family services over theholiday, the break holiday.
That's probably why I wasTaylor. So I don't even know how
to go there or how to do apodcast about it without
triggering the heck out ofeverybody. So we're still
working on that, but we need totalk about it, at least with the
therapist if we can't talk aboutit with our friends. I've seen
(33:35):
the therapist two times, and Isaw her downstairs one time. Oh
she's the one who helped us findour therapist we have right now.
So when we were first diagnosedthe first time, like when we
were 17, we were with atherapist who no longer is in
practice now. But she supervisedthe therapist we have now. But I
(33:58):
guess she was in supervisionback when we were diagnosed the
first time, and so some of usremember her from then, which is
kind of cool, but not everybodyremembers her. I don't know if
that makes sense. What do youlike?
I like climbing trees andswinging and coloring. Cool. I
do not like shoes. What? Okay.
(34:23):
Shoes are not for tree climbing,I guess, is what we learn from
that. What do you need to feelsafe? I need to keep the
therapist and not lose her. Oh,sadness. We've lost so many
people, you guys, you know?
Therapist helps me feel safe.Hiding helps me feel safe, and
(34:45):
the bear helps me feel safe.See, again, another one that's
hiding on purpose, which isdifferent than just being stuck
from trauma. I mean I know it'sstill because of trauma but like
some of them feel safer there sowhen we're talking about
changing internal worldlandscaping or whatever the
words are like we need to becareful because not everyone
(35:07):
just wants a field of sunshineand sunflowers and horses. Like,
some people want to be able tohide.
So when we're making safe placesinside for everybody, that needs
to include places that are safefor hiding, but in safe hiding
places. Does that make sense? Asopposed to being, like, trapped
somewhere, I guess. What are youscared of? I'm scared of being
(35:36):
punished.
Aw, sweetheart. Here's the onefrom our painter. It's very
brief, there's not a lot ofwords, but there's a nice little
doodle at the top with a kiteand some flowers. I live in the
(35:57):
attic. I can see and hear whathappened to them.
I send pictures to the therapistif I draw or paint what they
remember. Oh, that's totallytrue. If we're having trouble
with a memory, she can draw orpaint it out to relieve some of
the pressure. Does that makesense? But I don't like hurting
when they remember.
I need them not to rememberbecause it hurts me. Oh, sad.
(36:22):
Ugh. This is heartbreaking. Thisis really hard to look through.
I am sister. I am nine. I haveto share a room with my brother.
I know John and Cassie andTaylor and Don. I can see and
hear them.
(36:42):
I saw the therapist once onaccident. She helped me. She
also told me I do not have tocall my brother back. I do not
like touching. I need my familynot to find me.
I do not feel safe. I am afraid.Oh, oh, my heart, you guys. If I
(37:03):
were a nice person, I would behelpful here. This one has such
fancy writing in cursive.
I almost can't read it. I don'tknow if I know how to read
cursive. I'm 36 years old. Ilive in the chapel. This is
(37:25):
where I wait because it's whereI used to work, but I don't know
where this is in relation to theothers or how to get around to
them.
I have seen and heard the othersat times and I'm eager to be of
some use or help in some way,but am unsure how to proceed. I
saw the message that John istrying to deliver newspapers
(37:48):
inside and the important idea ofwriting these introductions. I
it's hard to read. I am glad tohelp with that. I would also be
glad to escort him if there isany place he needs to go but
doesn't want to go alone.
Oh, that's nice. That's waynicer than me. I'm not going to
(38:09):
no creepy places. I have met thetherapist and found her helpful
and reassuring. I feel much moregrounded or centered after
speaking to her or even readingher messages to us.
I like helping, contributing,reaching out to those who need
help administering in some way.I do not like anyone being
(38:31):
bullied or excluded. Unlesslegit. Yay. Social justice.
I need more instruction on orprotocol or directing directions
as to what would be helpful,then I don't mind doing it, but
I am not confident in initiatingin this case because I am not
sure how it works internally orwhat would be helpful. I feel
(38:55):
safe because I know who God isand because he has said more
than anything else, do not beafraid. Well, I'm okay. Moving
on. Yeah.
Oh, Emma. Okay. So if you havelistened to the podcast about
(39:16):
the three Emmas, she actuallytalks about some of this right
here, like she went off like aregular journal. I don't know if
she knew what the journal wassupposed to be for. I don't
know, but let's read, shall we?
My name is Emma and I oh what?Okay this is what it says. I'm
(39:39):
just whatever. The three Ms.Here we go.
I thought it was Emma Z and Iwas 19. I thought it was Emma T
and I was 23. But I also know itis Emma S and I am 36. I
remember all of this at once asif all of it is true at the same
time. This is new for me.
(40:00):
I am three of me, not me, stillme, and only me all at once.
Okay. She's crazy. Honey, what?It is new for me to see them.
I have always heard them. Butnow also, I remember that I did
before even know them. Iremember the first therapist
(40:23):
teaching me more about them. Icould talk to them, but now I
feel shy somehow, like if theywill not remember me or somehow
it wasn't okay anymore to havesuch childhood fantasies. I can
assure you this is not apleasant fantasy in which we
live.
(40:43):
Okay. I've seen the therapist.She is very patient with me when
it is hard for me to talk. Shedoes not act irritated or angry
at me. She lets me ask questionsand tell her things.
She is helping me. I like Oh,she is answering the questions.
Okay. I like staying home andbeing with my children. But now
(41:04):
I also remember I like to run.
Oh, not run like Don, like in afive k. I mean, we're not cool
runners like in a marathon orsomething. We're not legit
runners. That was her thing. Sheused to run every morning and we
did a lot of five k's, which wascool for me because shocker if
you don't know they have beer atthe end of the run.
(41:27):
So it turns out even I would runfor beer. Except we don't drink
any alcohol anymore at all forlike nine years you guys. In
fact our sobriety anniversary iscoming up but I'm telling you
back in the day I would run forbeer. Well she can run and I
would drink the beer. How'sthat?
(41:47):
Okay. Focus, focus, focus. Wherewere we? I had friends and I
played softball and volleyballand that was not me, but it was.
I remember it now.
I don't like other things Iremember. When I remember being
Emma Z, there are many things Iremember about trying to be on
(42:09):
my own and homeless and notalways safe. I remember running
away when I was 17, life washard. I remember the therapist
telling me about DID and beingscared and sad. I also remember
with MST, and I even had to talkto the husband about it.
(42:31):
But then he said he alreadyknew, and we had safe rules for
everybody to have what theyneed. But I was shocked, and it
was hard to remember, exceptthen I did remember and was okay
with it, but was uncomfortablewith him because I remembered
that I did not want to marry aman. Who? I only dated girls.
Also la dee da.
(42:56):
Also, there were others who wereI also kept ending up in
relationships with alcoholics.So true. We stopped drinking
because we made a promise not tobecause we wanted to get out of
the world of dating other peoplewho were alcoholics. I don't
think that we were an alcoholic.I don't think that we had a
problem stopping, but I willtell you that when we did stop
(43:18):
drinking, this is me talking,I'm not reading this right now.
I will tell you that when westopped drinking alcohol, it was
shocking to see how many friendsthat we lost because they could
not function without alcohol.And so just because of a series
of domestic violencerelationships, we decided and
committed to no alcohol at all,and it has greatly improved our
(43:43):
friendships and relationships.So the husband does not drink at
all any alcohol, zero alcohol,we do not drink any alcohol, we
are not alcohol haters in fact Imyself as Sasha would be
entirely jealous if you get todrink alcohol and I do not. But
we have stuck to the promise andkept the deal, our end of the
(44:05):
deal, so that's legit but that'swhere it comes from because all
these people we were with werealcoholics and they could not
function with alcohol. The otherthing she writes that was also
true was that all of them werealso abused.
And so for whatever reason, Idon't know if you guys have
experienced this, we foundourselves in this crowd of very
sick people who were not well.And I don't mean like the online
(44:28):
groups where a bunch of peopleare trying to support each other
as they themselves do the hardwork of getting well. I mean,
like, these were people who hadnot started the process yet, and
it was very hard and veryenmeshed and very much trauma
drama, and we had plenty. And sowe finally just withdrew from
(44:49):
that as a whole. So I guess sheremembers that when we were
dating and drinking and had allthe fun that I wanted.
So a shout out to Emma T, whoused to be my best buddy. And
now where is she gone? Abandonme, that's what? I don't even
know what to do about it. Thetherapist has already said we're
(45:10):
gonna have to talk about thisbecause I'm not being very nice
about it, but I feel like myfriend is gone.
Except she's not gone, but it'sweird, and I don't know how to
respond to it yet, but that's awhole different podcast. I have
never even kissed him. I also Ido the kissing, you guys, and
now she knows it. I feel sobadly about it and so
conflicted. Worse, I realizedsomeone else who isn't me is
(45:32):
doing that with him, and I don'tknow who or what to do about it.
That's me, you guys. I'm thekisser. Okay. I'm not laughing
because it's funny nor do I meanto mock her. I am laughing
because I feel like I've beencaught red handed, except I'm
(45:56):
not doing anything wrong.
Mostly, like, that relationshipis so platonic. Like, she
doesn't even know because justour range okay. This needs to be
I need to make a list of all thedifferent podcasts we could talk
about just from what I learnedtoday. Like each of these things
is a huge other topic. So I knowI am very happy with the
(46:19):
husband, even if it's platonic.
And remembering those otherrelationships that were so
violent and dangerous and scary,I'm even more grateful for him.
So he and the therapist helpedme feel safe. The children
helped me feel safe. Blanketshelped me feel safe. Oh yeah,
it's a rainy, snowy day, so whodoesn't love blankets today?
(46:41):
Yes. Being at home or at thetherapist's office helps me feel
safe. What am I afraid of? I amafraid of what I don't know. You
and me too, sister.
Is that all? Oh, wow. Here's apoem just all by itself, like,
(47:05):
the very end. It says, wow, thisis really tiny writing. I am
dreaming all of this dreaming,lost in a box in the dark
watching it all happen to me,growing up without me, hearing
them scream, seeing them cry,feeling them shattered as I was
torn to pieces, ripped apart byhorrors I can't see or speak,
(47:30):
and no one coming to stop it orto help or comfort or rescue.
Even God could not save me. Nowa light of hope cannot be real.
A voice of help cannot be there.It must be a dream worse than
any nightmare I have alreadylived. I do not even know what
(47:50):
to do with that!
Okay, so that's what's in thenotebook so far and clearly it's
going to take me some time toprocess this and I need both a
beer and a therapist right now.That's what this has done to me.
I don't even have words for howI feel. Like part of it's
(48:15):
overwhelmed, part of it is likesick in my stomach, part of it
is completely delighted, part ofit is like excited that it's
actually working, and part of itis terrified because it's
working. I don't even know howto process this.
We're just going to let it sitand I'm going to stop because I
need to go freak out right now.Thanks for listening! Bye! Thank
(48:45):
you for listening. Your supportof the podcast, the workbooks,
and the community means so muchto us as we try to create
something together that's neverbeen done before, not like this.
Connection brings healing, andyou can join us on the community
at www.systemspeakcommunity.com.We'll see you there.
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