January 30, 2017 • 43 mins
We interview Matt Pappas.
The website is HERE.
You can join the Community HERE. Remember that you will not be able to see much until joining groups. Message us if we can help!
You can contact the podcast HERE.
Content Note: Content on this website and in the podcasts is assumed to be trauma and/or dissociative related due to the nature of what is being shared here in general. Content descriptors are generally given in each episode. Specific trigger warnings are not given due to research reporting this makes triggers worse. Please use appropriate self-care and your own safety plan while exploring this website and during your listening experience. Natural pauses due to dissociation have not been edited out of the podcast, and have been left for authenticity. While some professional material may be referenced for educational purposes, Emma and her system are not your therapist nor offering professional advice. Any informational material shared or referenced is simply part of our own learning process, and not guaranteed to be the latest research or best method for you. Please contact your therapist or nearest emergency room in case of any emergency. This website does not provide any medical, mental health, or social support services.
★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Over:
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about
Dissociative Identity Disorder.If you are new to the podcast,
we recommend starting at thebeginning episodes and listen in
order to hear our story and whatwe have learned through this
endeavor. Current episodes maybe more applicable to long time
listeners and are likely tocontain more advanced topics,
(00:33):
emotional or other triggeringcontent, and or reference
earlier episodes that providemore context to what we are
currently learning andexperiencing. As always, please
care for yourself during andafter listening to the podcast.
Thank you.
(00:57):
Today, we're talking with Mattfrom beyondyourpast.com. Thank
you for agreeing to be on thisor let me talk to you and chat.
I just appreciate what you'redoing. You have such a smooth
process because you've got theIT background and you understand
surviving anyway, and then youjust have a unique approach. And
(01:20):
so that's why I wanted to talkto you.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, sure. I'm happy to. I'll be able to
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Good. Well, I'll let you go ahead and introduce
yourself first and we'll kind ofstart there.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So, yeah. So my name is Matt Pappas and I am a
anxiety coach and survivorcoach. And of course, I run
beyondyourpast.com. And I alsodo a podcast. I do some
blogging.
And I was a survivor ofchildhood sexual abuse between
the ages of five and 10, andextreme bullying through middle
(01:53):
school and part of high school,and survived a lot of other
things in life. So I decided tostart writing about those
through, you know, a series ofevents that transpired that
going in in the direction ofbeing a survivor and wanting to
make a career change out of acorporate job of being an
engineer and into a life ofworking with others who are also
dealing with a past thatinvolves trauma, a past that
(02:15):
deals with extreme anxiety,people who feel stuck and
isolated and alone, people whofeel like they can't reach their
potentials and their goals, andthey feel like life is too
difficult because of theoverwhelming anxiety and other
challenges in their life. Sothat's kind of where you know,
my focus is, of course, and it'sa combined effort with the
coaching individually. I do,group coaching as well. We do
(02:40):
the podcast.
We do the blogging. We also dodaily calls for survivors of all
different types of trauma whocan show up every single day,
three sixty five days a year fora forty five minute call with
myself and a colleague. We goover strategies and tips and
information and share screenshares and do Q and As and cover
(03:01):
a variety of topics around beinga survivor. It's something that
I really enjoy doing and I'mglad I made the transition out
of a job that did serve me forquite a long time and I'm very
grateful for it. Now I'm in anew phase of my life and really
experiencing what I think mytrue calling is even though it
only took me forty some years todo it.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Oh my goodness. So I already have so many questions.
So first of all, the servicesthat you're offering and the
things that you're doing,there's such a variety of
support. Like, I feel like itjust encompasses the person to
the degree they're able toparticipate. Like, you're just
there.
And the things that are hardestabout therapy or the things that
(03:41):
are hardest about trying tofunction every day, like that's
really where this coaching piececomes in. So what is the
difference between therapy andcoaching? Could you educate us
on that a little bit?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, as far as, you know,
kind of the multifacetedapproach, I mean, there is no
cookie cutter like method ofhealing. Nobody heals the same
way. Some people relate betterto different strategies than
others. And so, by doing theblogging, the podcasting, the
individual, the group coaching,all these different types of
things, and of course, some ofthe courses that we'll be
(04:13):
launching in 2019, where we'retrying to reach as many as
possible with in as many ways aspossible so that those who heal
better in groups, they have anopportunity.
Those who are one on one, theyhave an opportunity. Those who
would prefer to do courses, theyhave an opportunity. So it's
basically trying to reach asmany as possible because nobody
heals the same way. Everybody'sdifferent, everybody's journey's
(04:35):
different. And so we want to doour best to make sure that we
make these options available toas many as possible.
As far as the coaching and thetherapy, therapy and coaching
are absolutely different. Someof the modalities can cross back
and forth between each other. Itjust kind of depends on the type
of coaching or the type oftherapy. But coaches do not
(04:57):
diagnose. We don't treat mentalhealth challenges, concerns,
issues.
We don't prescribe medications,anything like that. Coaches take
you where you are right now inyour life, wherever that is. And
then we figure out a way to helpyou move forward to reach the
goals that you want to reach inlife, to change the things you
want to change, to make thepositive events that you felt
(05:17):
you haven't been able to for solong because you've been stuck.
We understand that there is apast involved. That could be a
very traumatic past.
There could be a lot of anxiety.There could be a lot of
relationship struggles. Whateveryour particular challenge is, we
help you move forward from whereyou are right now in an
encouraging way, understandingthat the past can and does
(05:38):
affect your present life. Ourgoal is to help you move forward
without being stuck in thatpast. Whereas therapists, of
course, will help you oftentimesgo back and understand the past
and heal the past and figure outwhat happened and why it
happened and give you strategiesand information to understand
that comprehend it and deal withthe flashbacks and all the
(05:59):
different types of things thatcome with working with a
therapist or other clinician.
Again, so there is a difference,but a lot of the strategies that
coaches implement, therapistsalso do and vice versa. So it
really just kind of depends onwhat you're looking for, but
there is a very, I guess a fineline, I guess you would say.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
When you were sharing your introduction, part of what
you said, I feel like reallyresonates with a lot of
survivors where such and suchhappened to me at this age, but
then after that, this alsohappened, and then this also
happened, and this alsohappened, and this also
happened. And then when I triedto grow up and be an adult, then
(06:38):
also this happened and thishappened and this happened. Why
is that? Why does it get socomplicated? Not just CPTSD, but
the trauma itself.
Why does it seem to layer on topof everything?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Well, I mean, trauma is absolutely cumulative. It
builds on itself. And when yousurvive something traumatic at a
very young age, you become morevulnerable, more susceptible to
different types of traumabecause as we know and as we
continue to learn throughdiscovery and science and
research that trauma at a veryyoung age affects your brain, it
(07:13):
affects your body, it can causeall different types of mental
health challenges, it can causechronic pain, chronic illness.
And so the more you go throughOnce you experience that first
traumatic event, it can, and notalways, I want to generalize and
say always, but it make you moreopen to different types of other
(07:34):
types of trauma. Again, be itbullying or narcissistic abuse
or emotional neglect or whateverthe case is, because brain, your
immune system, everything aboutyour body has already been
compromised because of thetrauma.
And now things can just kind oflayer on and layer on and your
self esteem is shot, you have noself confidence, you're more
vulnerable, you're oftentimesvery emotional. So all these
(07:58):
things just kind of compound tounfortunately make us more
vulnerable or again susceptibleto different types of trauma. So
the idea of course is thattrauma builds on itself. Perhaps
you're a survivor of childhoodsexual abuse, then maybe again
you have bullying, and thenthere was some emotional
neglect, And then maybe you werescapegoated. Then there was some
(08:20):
domestic violence.
I mean, it could be any numberof things that people can go
through. And the idea is to, atsome point, begin to break that
cycle, begin to take your powerback, understand what happened,
understand that it wasn't yourfault, start to implement coping
skills and processes, excuse me,and process memories and
flashbacks and begin to seeyourself for the potential you
(08:41):
have, not for being the victimfor the rest of your life
because of what happened to you.So it's a process that takes a
long time, but the alternativeis staying stuck, staying
miserable, staying isolated,staying alone, feeling like
nobody cares, feeling like Soonce start to work with a
therapist and then maybe youwork with a coach and then you
(09:01):
start watching videos and readsome books and do different
types and experiment withdifferent types of healing
modalities and you start to getempowered and you start to see
results and you're like, Yes, Ifeel so much better today. Or,
you know, I had a really roughday, but not feeling down for as
long as I used to. And all thesedifferent types of things also
build to help you feel empoweredand encouraged to keep going so
(09:24):
that when tough times do hit,even as an adult, you're not
stuck for as long as what youmight have been before.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
When you talk about breaking the cycle, you're not
just talking about betweengenerations. You mean in
survivor's own lifetime.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because, I mean, when you
are trying to heal from traumaand you have all these unhealthy
coping skills and things thatcan literally physically or
emotionally harm you, but we doit because it's all we know.
It's the only way that we canhelp numb the pain or avoid the
pain or stuff down the pain. Or,you know, so we just we do these
(10:01):
things over and over because wehaven't been taught anything
else.
We haven't been able tounderstand that there are
alternatives. So once you do andyou start to find healthy coping
skills and new strategies, andyou reach out for a support
system online, and you start toput up healthy boundaries with
toxic people in your life, andall the things that you learn by
working with a therapist andworking with a coach, then you
(10:21):
start to see that, I'm breakingthe cycle. I'm not going to wake
up every single day stuck,miserable, feeling like I can't
do anything, feeling like I haveto settle, feeling like there's
no hope. I'm now waking up andsaying, You know what? Maybe
there's a possibility thatsomething good might happen
today, or at least something badmight not happen today.
And those are the kind of babysteps you take that start to
(10:43):
build so you can feel likeyou're moving in a new
direction.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh my goodness, I love that. So not just maybe
that something good will happentoday, but let's first just have
a day where something bad doesnot happen.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Oh my god. Yeah. I mean, so, you know, especially
early on when you start to workthrough, you know, a traumatic
past, a good day can just be theabsence of something bad not
happening. And that's okay.Like, there's no shame in that
whatsoever.
Because so oftentimes we wake upexpecting the worst, we figure
nothing good is gonna happen,And, you know, when something
(11:18):
bad does happen, well, ofcourse, that's what happened to
me. That's what always happensto me. Things never work out for
me, all the stuff we tellourselves. But sometimes when
you go through a day and it wasjust kind of status quo, nothing
really major happened, you know,in any event, well, hey, that's
a win. And that's a start.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Really empowering. I'm gonna have to write that
down for myself just the way yousaid that. Tell me what you know
about dissociation. And ourpodcast kind of focuses on DID
specifically, but justdissociation in general. Then I
also saw, you did a blog, aboutNLP and intentionally
(11:56):
dissociating.
So just in general, what do youknow about dissociation? What do
you think about it? And thisintentional dissociation what?
Tell me what's going on.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well, I mean, there's so much to talk about with with
dissociation. I mean, way morethan than you can cover on a
single podcast.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
But essentially, I mean, I realized that I
dissociated when I was sittingin a therapist's office years
ago and she told me, she's like,You are just dissociating. And
I'm like, What the hell is that?And I mean, literally, never
even heard the term, you know,years ago. And so she explained
to me and I realized so much ofwhat my life has been spent in a
(12:37):
dissociative state and that whenI was in the midst of the abuse
happening between five and 10,and that when the bullying
happened and so many otherevents in my life, my brain
would intentionally take me awayand not allow me to be fully
present so that it would save mefrom some of the pain. And that
(12:59):
really kind of put so much intoperspective for me.
I realized how much of my lifewas spent dissociating. Then I
realized that there weredifferent levels of dissociation
and different types. And ofcourse, you mentioned DID and
then there's different types,know, then you have dissociative
amnesia and losing time and allthese different things that you
learn along the way as to whatyour brain actually does when
(13:22):
you dissociate, why it does it,ways that you can help stay
fully present now as an adult tounderstand that dissociation
saved you, especially like ifyou're a trauma survivor, it
absolutely saved your life.Believe that. Now as an adult,
sometimes it's kind of a pain inthe butt, right?
Just because you're constantlyzoning out, you're not able stay
fully present, your mind'selsewhere, you're staring up at
(13:45):
the ceiling, and all thedifferent things that we do when
we dissociate depending on whoyou are. So understanding how
mindfulness can help withdissociation, but also
understanding dissociation canbe a good thing because it
allows you to kind of go to adifferent place intentionally
and just kind of zone out andthink about nothing and give
(14:05):
your brain a break and give yourmind a rest. That's a different
form of dissociation. I'vewritten a lot about my own
journey of dissociation on myblog in terms of just like what
it feels like and how much of astruggle it is now versus what
happened during the times oftrauma. And so again, there's so
much to talk about with that.
That's like kind of a broadoverview. And then you mentioned
(14:26):
about in NLP, we talk aboutintentionally dissociating,
which is different. It's adifferent form than the clinical
that you and I are talking aboutand that what Kathy discussed.
And so when you intentionallydissociate, you're trying to get
a broad level perspective of asituation, right? So you're not
(14:47):
looking at a situation from afirst person point of view.
Like you're not in the middle ofit. You're not feeling it.
You're not living it real time.You're not in that emotional
state. You intentionally pullyourself out.
Like, I mean, in your mind, youare intentionally removing
yourself from a particular setof events or a circumstance, and
you are literally seeingyourself go through that event,
(15:12):
which allows you to get anobjective perspective and see
what's really going on ratherthan what the emotional mind,
what the dissociation is tryingto tell you is actually going
on. So it's a way to get, tokind of show yourself some
compassion, some perspective, toget an idea of what it feels
like to be you going throughthat emotional state, going
(15:36):
through that traumatic event,whatever, the situation is. And
this gives you the opportunityto see what's really happening
so you can say, you know what? Ishouldn't beat myself up so
much. I shouldn't judge myselfso much.
I shouldn't jump to conclusionsbecause this situation is very
difficult and I have to work myway through it. And so when you
intentionally dissociate, youremove yourself and look at
(15:58):
yourself from across the room orfrom down on a hill or outside a
window or a doorway and seewhat's going on so you can give
yourself more compassion and amore objective option to deal
with whatever's happening.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Can you explain what NLP is in case someone doesn't
know?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So NLP is neuro linguistic
programming. It literallyteaches you to understand the
language of the brain. And ituses strategies and mindsets and
coping skills and information tohelp you in any event in life.
I mean, business coaches use it,trauma coaches use it, you can
use it against, you know, inyour fight against anxiety. It's
(16:36):
used in relationship coaching.It's literally retraining your
mind to see things from adifferent point of view, to show
yourself more compassion, moreobjectivity, more kindness, to
be able to understand that theway that you see something is
different than the way somebodyelse might see it. And that the
way that we look at ourselves,our life, our circumstances, the
(16:58):
people around us, our job, ourkids, our dog, everything, the
way that you look at it has aprofound effect on your very
well-being, your life, yourpersonality, the way you
approach challenges, everything.So, it teaches you to understand
how the brain works so you canreformulate and reframe old
negative coping skills, negativethoughts, old mindsets into
(17:22):
something that can serve you,something that can be
understanding and compassionateand empowering rather than
negative and disempowering andall those types of things.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Is there anything in general that we need to
understand about the brain andtrauma?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
The biggest thing to understand about the brain and
trauma is that really, no matterwhat type of trauma it is, your
brain is affected literally fromthe first time it happens. And
in terms of complex trauma wherethere are a series of events
that happen over and over andover repeatedly, perhaps over
weeks, months, years, whateverthe case is. Again, whether it's
(17:59):
something that is abuse relatedor perhaps there is repeated
trauma from someone who's in themilitary, or there are someone
who lives through repeatednatural disasters, all different
types of things, all encompassdifferent types of trauma. And
so really the main thing is tounderstand that the brain is
affected. Your thought process,your ability to cope, your
ability to cognitively processanything, to think.
(18:22):
To deal with daily life iscompromised when there's trauma.
So the idea here is that becausethat happens, there has to be a
way to fix it. And for a longtime, we always thought that,
well, you know, your brain wasdamaged and that was the end of
it and you were kind of screwed.What we know now and we have
known for the last, what,several decades that
neuroplasticity allows us toretrain the brain to develop new
(18:42):
pathways, create new pathways,new coping skills, and literally
retrain the brain to deal withsituations differently, to
default to a new healthy copingstrategy, to something
empowering, to somethingcompletely different than what
you've known. And so allowingthose old negative pathways, as
we like to call them, or I likeI like to call them, the old
(19:03):
negative pathways to kind ofjust fall by the wayside and get
worn over with dirt and grassand stones.
And eventually nobody goes thereanymore. And your default skill
is something empowering andhealthy and encouraging and
understanding. And so that'sreally the hope that the
foundation of healing fromtrauma is that you can heal your
(19:25):
brain and change your brain andthat in your mind. And that's
what really makes healing fromany kind of trauma possible.
Because if you couldn't do that,you you would just be stuck
forever in the state that youare in.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Understanding those things really offers some hope
because even someone who's beenthrough long term trauma and
repeated patterns of trauma,there's still time to heal even
their brain itself.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Oh my goodness, yeah. I mean, are people I know,
colleagues of mine, people who Iinteract with online, people
I've seen at conferences. Imean, people who are in their
sixties, their seventies aregoing through and learning to
retrain their mind and healingfrom trauma and understanding
that something that affectedthem maybe fifty years ago has
(20:14):
been part of their life for allthis time. And they're finally
able to take the steps to workthrough and process those
memories and heal that trauma.So yeah, it doesn't matter how
old you are.
Mean, you know, from what I, thestats that I know of is that
oftentimes, and again, you know,I never say always here, but
oftentimes men don't begin toeven think about processing
(20:39):
trauma until their 40s and womenin their 30s. So you're living
decades with all kinds of stuffthat you have no idea is still
affecting you. Mean, when I wasin my 20s, well, my late teens
and in my 20s and 30s, I didn'tthink that being bullied in high
school fifteen, twenty years agoeven made a difference. I had no
clue that being abused by ateenager out the street between
(21:01):
five and ten was going to affectmy self confidence, my self
esteem, caused me to haveproblems with food and my weight
and all these different things.And so I had no idea that any of
this was all together.
I thought I was just screwed andbroken and busted. And so once I
started to realize that, hey,all this makes sense, you know,
(21:22):
trauma affects my brain and thisis where all these things come
from. Okay, now I've got a plan.Now I understand it. What can I
do to heal it?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That's so powerful.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah. I mean, I think that's the approach I take,
Emma. It's really is I don'twant to be doing everything that
I did for the last thirty yearsthat really landed me nowhere
good. That's not to say that mylife didn't have good times. I I
had three amazing kids.
I've been able to do somethings. I had a job, as I said
(21:52):
before, in corporate, asengineer that served me for a
long time. So there were goodthings about my life. But by and
large, the struggles that nobodyever saw, the things that I
dealt with internally that Inever shared for all that time.
Like, I don't want to go back tothat.
Like, who wants to go back tothat kind of misery? So I used
it as an empowering way to say,I don't want to go back to the
(22:12):
way I was before. How can I moveforward? How can I work to heal
this stuff so I can feel more incontrol? I can look at life
differently and I can see thepotential rather than dreading
what's about to come throughoutthe day for the next year or the
next ten years.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So how does someone know when they're ready? Like
doing this kind of work can beso intense. It can be so
overwhelming. In some ways itgets worse before it gets
better. And it's just hard.
How does someone know whenthey're ready to go ahead and
try?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Well, I think, and this, it's a tough question
because nobody, like, the waythat I knew I was ready was not
the way that somebody else knewthey were ready, and sometimes
you just kind of happen into it.Like for me, when I sought out
the help of a therapist, right?I went to her because I was just
coming off a divorce and I wastrying to work through my own
(23:09):
relationship challenges. And youknow, why does this keep
happening to me? And why am I,why do I keep having all these
things occur in my life?
And so I was in there for moreof like a relationship type of
thing. Well, it came out afterabout six months that I was a
trauma survivor. And then westarted going down that road. So
it kind of happened in a waythat I never saw coming because
(23:31):
I reached out for somethingtotally different. Trauma
affects your life, again,relationships, your personality,
your job, your kids, yourhobbies, everything.
So sometimes it's a matter ofyou reaching out for help in
another way and then itorganically comes out over time
that maybe you're ready to startdealing with this stuff. But I
(23:53):
think more often than not,you're just sick and tired of
being miserable. You're tired ofthe status quo. You're tired of
waking up every day, dreadingwhat's coming. You're tired of
not having, you know, being ableto set any goals, to stick with
anything.
You're tired of anxiety, youknow, being so much of a part of
your life. You're tired ofattracting, you know, the wrong
(24:14):
type of people. You're tired ofnot being able to put up healthy
boundaries. You're just like theold adage, you're sick and tired
of being sick and tired andsomething has to give. You know,
as you mentioned, traumahealing, it's a lot of work.
It is a ton of work, but thebenefits so far outweigh the
struggles because, again, thealternative is being where you
(24:35):
are for the rest of your life.So why not consider and be like,
You know what? I'm tired ofthis. I need to make a change.
Something's got to give.
Let me try this and see whathappens. And if you just dip
your toe in the pool, so tospeak, and just say, Okay, maybe
let's go explore this a littlebit with the understanding that
once you dive into it, there'sgoing to be a lot of stuff to go
through and it's going to behard and difficult. You're going
(24:56):
to spend a lot of times beingangry and afraid and upset and
sad and all different types ofemotions. Getting this stuff out
of your head and into the openso it's not so just stuck in
there, kind of going around likea hamster in your head over and
over and over, replaying allthese negative mindsets and all
these traumatic events andeverything in your life that you
(25:19):
want to change. Replaying that,sending it in a new direction.
So now all that stuff is out inthe open. It's out speaking with
a therapist. It's out on a blog.It's out of the journal. Maybe
you do art therapy, whatever itis that you do to get this stuff
out so you can process it.
And then it doesn't seem likeit's so strong anymore. It
doesn't seem like it has such agrip on you anymore. So it's
(25:41):
really, again, everybody'sdifferent. But in my experience,
some people just kind of happeninto it like I did. And other
times you just say, You knowwhat?
I am so damn sick of living mylife this way. Something's got
to change. And then understandthat nobody can do it for you.
Like nobody. I can't heal foryou.
A therapist can't heal for you.A coach can't heal for you. A
psychologist or whatever. Nobodycan actually heal for you. You
(26:02):
have to put in the hard work,you have to put in the effort,
but the helping professionalsare there to give you guidance,
to give you insight, to give youperspective, to give you tools.
But ultimately, it's up to us totake the reins of our own
healing and work our way throughit one step at a time, little by
little, and then understand thatthe outcome is worth all of the
(26:23):
pain and the struggle as you gothrough it.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
One of the struggles in the beginning is just finding
a good therapist. When someonehas been through all of these
things and in this pattern ofunhealthy interactions or toxic
people around them, it's hard toeven do that. And I feel like so
many of us go through severaltries of finding a therapist
before you do. How does a personsort through some of that just
(26:49):
to get to a good therapist sothey can start some of that
work?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Well, you're right. I mean, finding a good therapist,
a good coach, a good helpingprofessional is difficult
because there are tons outthere. I mean, they're of all
different types and walks oflife and everything. So the idea
is, of course, if we're talkingabout trauma here, in my
opinion, you always want to findsomeone who is trauma informed,
(27:13):
somebody who understands what itmeans to be a survivor, to go
through all the different typesof things that survivors go
through. And so understandingwhat trauma is and how it
affects your daily life.
So trauma informed therapists, Ithink, are key when you are
trying to work through all ofthese different types of
struggles. So it's really,unfortunately, there's no tried
(27:36):
and true method because I mightbe working, I might be able to
recommend half a dozen reallyamazing, awesome therapists who
are trauma informed and theyspecialize in all different
types of art therapy and EMDRand CBT and DBT and IFS and all
the different things. But if youdon't have a rapport with that
(27:59):
therapist, if you don't relateto them, if you're not
comfortable, it doesn't matterhow good they are. It doesn't
mean that that therapist isnecessarily a bad choice. It
just means that it's not theright choice for you.
So it takes a lot of research.You might have to go on a bunch
of interviews with therapists.And yes, you actually should
interview your therapist. Bringalong questions. Ask them if
they're trauma informed.
Ask them about their experience.Ask them about their
(28:20):
credentials. Reach out tofriends and trusted people
online who have experience withworking through trauma and ask
them who they recommend. And youhave to do your homework and
there's no really easy way to doit. For me, I kind of
fortunately lucked into,literally kind of fell into a
(28:41):
trauma informed therapist when Iwas seeking out help while I was
still at my corporate job, and Iused an employee program to help
find myself a therapist.
Like, I found a great one on thefirst try, but that rarely
happens.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Doesn't
Speaker 1 (28:55):
happen
very
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
So I was extremely lucky, but, you know, there I
hear story after story afterstory of people who have worked
with therapists, you know,trying you know, they've tried a
half a dozen, a dozen differentones until they found the right
one. So it can be frustrating.It can be and it can make you
feel like you want to give up.But, you know, when you find
(29:17):
that right helping professionalthat you click with, that
understands with, that you feelsafe with, that has all the
credentials that you feel areimportant, that really makes you
feel comfortable and safe intheir office, then that's when
all the hard work again paysoff. But it's just part of this
healing thing, this healingjourney, healing your stuff,
(29:38):
whatever you want to call it, ispart of that is trying to find
the helping professional that'sjust right for you.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
And what about clinicians? What do you think
they need to know aboutsurvivors that they're not going
to learn from a book or inschool?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Well, and that's the thing. I mean, I think in my
humble opinion, it all comesfrom experience. It comes from
learning about what a survivordoes by talking with them, by
reading about them, by watchingvideos of people who are sharing
their story, understanding theunique struggles that comes with
being a survivor of trauma. It'snot something you can just get
(30:15):
over. You can't just snap yourfingers and snap out of it.
You can't just tell somebodythat, Hey, that happened twenty
years ago. Get over it now. Itdoesn't bother you anymore. Like
those types of things areincredibly damaging to a
survivor, because it's soinvalidating. So it's really
just kind of comes with, Ithink, understanding what a
survivor is.
A lot of, trauma informedclinicians are survivors
(30:38):
themselves to some degree, sothey know what it feels like. So
I feel like real world, there wego, experience can play a big
part of it. But it's really justhaving that compassion and that
understanding and the knowledgethat certain types of approaches
work with survivors and certaintypes don't. And it's really,
(31:00):
again, I think life experienceplays a big part of it. But just
joining, I know some clinicianswho regularly will join survivor
chats and watch videos of peoplewho are sharing their struggles
every single day to get anunderstanding of what it means
to wake up every day and tostruggle so they can feel more
(31:20):
compassionate provide programsto people who struggle in the
way that they see.
It's really just, again, there'sonly so much you can learn when
you are in your classes andgetting your degrees and your
licenses. A lot of it is just,unfortunately, it's experience.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
And what about for your perspective, how would you
describe the difference betweenwhat it was like to wake up as
you before you learned all thisand what it's like to wake up as
you now that you've beenempowered by all this?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Well, I used to wake up every day anticipating the
worst, dreading the worst, youknow, nothing good is going to
happen today, all these badthings always happen to me, why
do I always do this? Living inextremes, catastrophizing
everything, living in a veryblack and white existence to
where I'm living on one side orthe other and where there's no
happy medium, there's no middleground. I'm either completely
(32:17):
miserable or I'm completelyhappy. And if I'm not one of
those two, I have no idea what Iam, so I have to default to one.
So I would default to beingmiserable all the time because
it's what I knew.
So I would expect bad things tohappen. I would blame myself
when there were tough times. Iowned everything that even
wasn't my stuff to own. I was anextreme people pleaser. I was
(32:39):
all just many different things.
But in a nutshell, I woke upevery day with no expectation of
things ever getting better. Iwas just trying to live one day
to the next, one hour to thenext, month to month, trying to
survive, trying to hide all ofmy pain so I didn't burden other
people, you know, and just puton a happy face, put on a mask
(33:01):
and just live my life likenothing's wrong. Know, happy go
lucky Matt. Everybody lovesMatt. He's great.
He's kind. He's helpful. Heloves football. He loves music.
You know, all the things that Ikind of built for myself up
around.
Like, I created a life or apersonality for myself that I
wanted people to see. Well, nowit's a more genuine, authentic
(33:22):
existence. You know, I believeme, I still struggle, anybody
who's a survivor tells you theydon't struggle anymore at all
ever, I would probably questionthat to some degree because
everybody struggles. It doesn'tmatter how long you've been at
this. It doesn't matter whatkind of coping skills you have,
how long you've been a therapistor a coach or how long you've
been at this healing journey inyour own personal life, you're
(33:44):
still going to struggle.
Life is still going to throw youcurveballs. You're still going
to have memories pop up, thingsand events that trigger you.
Just tough decisions, loss offamily members and loved ones
and pets, just tragedies andtraumas that happen in your
life. But the idea is thatyou're no longer dealing with
(34:04):
those events in an unhealthy wayso that you are constantly
blaming yourself, beatingyourself up, spiraling down into
depression and using unhealthycoping strategies. You're now
saying, Okay, I need to processthis emotion.
I need to feel this. I need tofigure out where it's coming
from, acknowledge it, and thenuse some self care and then
(34:25):
start to pull myself out of itin a time that feels right to
me. So it's a total shift in howyou approach life and approach
the challenges that still comeabout.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I think that you left me a little bit speechless on
the part where you were talkingabout how you're more genuine
now because I feel like yourauthenticity is part of what
draws people to you and makesyour support and the things that
you write about so real forsurvivors. So that was
interesting to me. Just thankyou for being vulnerable there.
(35:00):
I guess my last questionspecifically for you is what are
three things that a survivorcould do right now to change
that default even a little bit?
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Well, I think one of the first things is reach out
for the support that's availableonline. I mean, there are
countless survivor chats, blogs,Facebook groups, Twitter chats.
I mean, all kinds of peoplesharing all different types of
stories from all walks of life.The survivor community, you
(35:32):
know, I mean, we all haveprobably heard the stats of one
in four girls and one in sixboys are going to be traumatized
in some way before theireighteenth birthday. So that
means that there are millions ofpeople out there who are just
trying to go through the samethings that you are.
And so reach out online for allof the free resources, the
videos, the books, the chats. Imean, the survivor community is
(35:53):
one of the most accepting andcompassionate and empowering and
validating groups of peopleyou'll ever meet. And then you
know I
Speaker 2 (36:00):
agree with that. That's so true.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
It is. I mean, that's what really jump started my
journey was I went on Google oneday and just Googled survivor
chat, I think it was. And Ifound Twitter chats and books
and videos and all kinds ofstuff. That's what really got me
going in the direction ofreaching out for help. Utilize
the free resources that areright there available on your
computer, on your phone, at acomputer in the library,
(36:23):
wherever, because there's somuch out there, so much
information that people areputting out now every day.
That's one big thing. Anotherthing is understand that a lot
of what you struggle with rightnow in life as an adult is a
(36:44):
result of that trauma in thepast, and that that trauma
wasn't your fault, right? So nomatter what type of unhealthy
coping skill or struggles youhave, whatever it is in your
life, a lot of that we'relearning more and more can be
traced back to childhood trauma.And so, you know, do some
research on your own behalf. Youknow, why do I feel this way?
(37:04):
How is trauma related to thisillness? How does chronic pain
related to that, you know, pasttrauma? Like, do some research
on your own and kind of get anidea of what you're up against
so you haven't because one thingwe always One thing I always
like to say is that if you canput a name to something, a label
(37:25):
to something, if you canidentify something, it doesn't
seem quite as overbearing,right? Cause you figure somebody
else went through it cause theywrote about it. So kind of
getting out of your own head andout of this mentality that you
are in this alone is huge.
And doing a little research goesa long way to help you feel like
you're more in control and thatyou can kind of put a plan in
(37:48):
place of some things that youcan work on in your own life.
Again, something free. Go onlineand then do some research as to
why you feel certain ways andstrategies to help me feel
better because of this and allthat kind of stuff. You'll find
a myriad of resources available.And so again, reach out to the
survivor chats, do some researchon your own.
(38:11):
Then I think one of the otherthings, and there's so many
more, but one other thing isdon't be afraid to dip your toe
in the water and consider thepossibility that reaching out
for help might be a good idea.Because even now with all of the
attention given to working withtherapists and the Me Too
(38:32):
movement and sharing your story.It's still scary to come out and
share your story with somebodybecause you're going to feel
judged, you don't know whoyou're going to hurt, you might
get shame and backlash from yourfamily, your friends, your
coworkers. So you don'tnecessarily You're not always
able to just say, Okay, I feelmiserable. I'm going to go get
help.
And so if you can jump from A toB like that, then more power to
(38:53):
you. But if you can't, then sitdown and say, Okay, what would
it be like to start to try andtake steps to feel better? What
would it feel like to not wakeup miserable every day? What
would it feel like to be able toreach out for help and get this
stuff out of my head to somebodywho's safe and can help me make
sense of it? And so allowyourself to imagine the
(39:14):
possibility of reaching out forhelp and what that would feel
like a month from now, sixmonths from now, five years from
now, how much different yourlife might be if you reached out
and made a call to a therapistor a coach, somebody who can
help you make sense ofeverything.
By taking those baby steps, itdoesn't seem quite so
overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Thank you for offering some hope.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I love it. I spent so much of my life not having hope
that I love giving people hopenow. Because hope is one of the
biggest things about being atrauma survivor is if we don't
have hope, then there's nopoint. So we have to have hope.
Yes, yeah.
The original website thatstarted everything is called
Surviving My Past. If you Googleit, you'll find it. And I wrote
(39:59):
a book called Surviving Grief,which takes you through the
stages of grief as a traumasurvivor. Grieving your lost
childhood, grieving your lostinnocence, grieving the past,
grieving things from theperspective of being a survivor
is something that I had to workthrough on my own and I continue
to work through. So it'savailable free.
(40:19):
You can just go to that websiteand download it. Just Google
Surviving My Past and thenyou'll see a link right there at
the top and on the side of thepage where you can download a
free copy and you can read it.It's a very easy read. It's not
a very long book, but it takesyou through the stages and the
understanding that workingthrough the grieving process,
(40:40):
whether it's grieving a lovedone, a pet, grieving your
innocence in your past, whateverit is, it's not a linear
process. You don't go step one,step two, step three, four,
five, six and you're done.
Like it's one, two, five, four,three, one. Like you're going
back and forth and at a verydifferent pace for each
situation that you grieve. So,it kind of helps you just make
sense of that a little bit andunderstand that it's important
(41:01):
and necessary to go through thatgrieving process.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I had never thought of that before in context of
applying grief to that lostchildhood.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
And the childhood that you never had because you
were a victim of some type ofabuse, yeah, that's super duper
important. And it's verydifficult. That's something
that, you know, you work with oryou work through with a a
professional one. But this bookkinda gives you some ideas of my
experience with it.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
It's my pleasure, Emma. Anytime.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Is there anything else that you want to share?
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Well, think it's really just, you know, we're all
of us on this planet who aresurvivors. We're here just
trying to get through the day tomake sense of our life, to make
changes in the areas that wewant to improve on, or just see
a different mindset with. And soreally just don't be afraid to
(41:55):
take some small baby steps in adifferent direction. The status
quo of feeling familiar, ofsomething that feels familiar
and safe, is not alwayssomething that is healthy for
you. So be okay with thepossibility of dipping your toe
in the water, of reaching outfor help, and just seeing what
it feels like.
You might just find that it'spretty empowering and the
(42:18):
difference that it can make inyour life can be truly something
that is remarkable. If you everhave any questions, if you want
to learn more about the coachingand all that stuff, can just
head over to beyondyourpast.com.That's my coaching website.
There's links to the podcast.There's links to the daily
calls.
There's links to the books, allkinds of stuff. So check it out.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
My pleasure. Anytime.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Thank you for listening. Your support of the
podcast, the workbooks, and thecommunity means so much to us as
we try to create somethingtogether that's never been done
before. Not like this.Connection brings healing, and
you can join us on the communityat www.systemspeakcommunity.com.
(43:06):
We'll see you there.
Over:
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about
Dissociative Identity Disorder.If you are new to the podcast,
we recommend starting at thebeginning episodes and listen in
order to hear our story and whatwe have learned through this
endeavor. Current episodes maybe more applicable to long time
listeners and are likely tocontain more advanced topics,
(00:33):
emotional or other triggeringcontent, and or reference
earlier episodes that providemore context to what we are
currently learning andexperiencing. As always, please
care for yourself during andafter listening to the podcast.
Thank you.
(00:57):
Today, we're talking with Mattfrom beyondyourpast.com. Thank
you for agreeing to be on thisor let me talk to you and chat.
I just appreciate what you'redoing. You have such a smooth
process because you've got theIT background and you understand
surviving anyway, and then youjust have a unique approach. And
(01:20):
so that's why I wanted to talkto you.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, sure. I'm happy to. I'll be able to
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Good. Well, I'll let you go ahead and introduce
yourself first and we'll kind ofstart there.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So, yeah. So my name is Matt Pappas and I am a
anxiety coach and survivorcoach. And of course, I run
beyondyourpast.com. And I alsodo a podcast. I do some
blogging.
And I was a survivor ofchildhood sexual abuse between
the ages of five and 10, andextreme bullying through middle
(01:53):
school and part of high school,and survived a lot of other
things in life. So I decided tostart writing about those
through, you know, a series ofevents that transpired that
going in in the direction ofbeing a survivor and wanting to
make a career change out of acorporate job of being an
engineer and into a life ofworking with others who are also
dealing with a past thatinvolves trauma, a past that
(02:15):
deals with extreme anxiety,people who feel stuck and
isolated and alone, people whofeel like they can't reach their
potentials and their goals, andthey feel like life is too
difficult because of theoverwhelming anxiety and other
challenges in their life. Sothat's kind of where you know,
my focus is, of course, and it'sa combined effort with the
coaching individually. I do,group coaching as well. We do
(02:40):
the podcast.
We do the blogging. We also dodaily calls for survivors of all
different types of trauma whocan show up every single day,
three sixty five days a year fora forty five minute call with
myself and a colleague. We goover strategies and tips and
information and share screenshares and do Q and As and cover
(03:01):
a variety of topics around beinga survivor. It's something that
I really enjoy doing and I'mglad I made the transition out
of a job that did serve me forquite a long time and I'm very
grateful for it. Now I'm in anew phase of my life and really
experiencing what I think mytrue calling is even though it
only took me forty some years todo it.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Oh my goodness. So I already have so many questions.
So first of all, the servicesthat you're offering and the
things that you're doing,there's such a variety of
support. Like, I feel like itjust encompasses the person to
the degree they're able toparticipate. Like, you're just
there.
And the things that are hardestabout therapy or the things that
(03:41):
are hardest about trying tofunction every day, like that's
really where this coaching piececomes in. So what is the
difference between therapy andcoaching? Could you educate us
on that a little bit?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, as far as, you know,
kind of the multifacetedapproach, I mean, there is no
cookie cutter like method ofhealing. Nobody heals the same
way. Some people relate betterto different strategies than
others. And so, by doing theblogging, the podcasting, the
individual, the group coaching,all these different types of
things, and of course, some ofthe courses that we'll be
(04:13):
launching in 2019, where we'retrying to reach as many as
possible with in as many ways aspossible so that those who heal
better in groups, they have anopportunity.
Those who are one on one, theyhave an opportunity. Those who
would prefer to do courses, theyhave an opportunity. So it's
basically trying to reach asmany as possible because nobody
heals the same way. Everybody'sdifferent, everybody's journey's
(04:35):
different. And so we want to doour best to make sure that we
make these options available toas many as possible.
As far as the coaching and thetherapy, therapy and coaching
are absolutely different. Someof the modalities can cross back
and forth between each other. Itjust kind of depends on the type
of coaching or the type oftherapy. But coaches do not
(04:57):
diagnose. We don't treat mentalhealth challenges, concerns,
issues.
We don't prescribe medications,anything like that. Coaches take
you where you are right now inyour life, wherever that is. And
then we figure out a way to helpyou move forward to reach the
goals that you want to reach inlife, to change the things you
want to change, to make thepositive events that you felt
(05:17):
you haven't been able to for solong because you've been stuck.
We understand that there is apast involved. That could be a
very traumatic past.
There could be a lot of anxiety.There could be a lot of
relationship struggles. Whateveryour particular challenge is, we
help you move forward from whereyou are right now in an
encouraging way, understandingthat the past can and does
(05:38):
affect your present life. Ourgoal is to help you move forward
without being stuck in thatpast. Whereas therapists, of
course, will help you oftentimesgo back and understand the past
and heal the past and figure outwhat happened and why it
happened and give you strategiesand information to understand
that comprehend it and deal withthe flashbacks and all the
(05:59):
different types of things thatcome with working with a
therapist or other clinician.
Again, so there is a difference,but a lot of the strategies that
coaches implement, therapistsalso do and vice versa. So it
really just kind of depends onwhat you're looking for, but
there is a very, I guess a fineline, I guess you would say.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
When you were sharing your introduction, part of what
you said, I feel like reallyresonates with a lot of
survivors where such and suchhappened to me at this age, but
then after that, this alsohappened, and then this also
happened, and this alsohappened, and this also
happened. And then when I triedto grow up and be an adult, then
(06:38):
also this happened and thishappened and this happened. Why
is that? Why does it get socomplicated? Not just CPTSD, but
the trauma itself.
Why does it seem to layer on topof everything?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Well, I mean, trauma is absolutely cumulative. It
builds on itself. And when yousurvive something traumatic at a
very young age, you become morevulnerable, more susceptible to
different types of traumabecause as we know and as we
continue to learn throughdiscovery and science and
research that trauma at a veryyoung age affects your brain, it
(07:13):
affects your body, it can causeall different types of mental
health challenges, it can causechronic pain, chronic illness.
And so the more you go throughOnce you experience that first
traumatic event, it can, and notalways, I want to generalize and
say always, but it make you moreopen to different types of other
(07:34):
types of trauma. Again, be itbullying or narcissistic abuse
or emotional neglect or whateverthe case is, because brain, your
immune system, everything aboutyour body has already been
compromised because of thetrauma.
And now things can just kind oflayer on and layer on and your
self esteem is shot, you have noself confidence, you're more
vulnerable, you're oftentimesvery emotional. So all these
(07:58):
things just kind of compound tounfortunately make us more
vulnerable or again susceptibleto different types of trauma. So
the idea of course is thattrauma builds on itself. Perhaps
you're a survivor of childhoodsexual abuse, then maybe again
you have bullying, and thenthere was some emotional
neglect, And then maybe you werescapegoated. Then there was some
(08:20):
domestic violence.
I mean, it could be any numberof things that people can go
through. And the idea is to, atsome point, begin to break that
cycle, begin to take your powerback, understand what happened,
understand that it wasn't yourfault, start to implement coping
skills and processes, excuse me,and process memories and
flashbacks and begin to seeyourself for the potential you
(08:41):
have, not for being the victimfor the rest of your life
because of what happened to you.So it's a process that takes a
long time, but the alternativeis staying stuck, staying
miserable, staying isolated,staying alone, feeling like
nobody cares, feeling like Soonce start to work with a
therapist and then maybe youwork with a coach and then you
(09:01):
start watching videos and readsome books and do different
types and experiment withdifferent types of healing
modalities and you start to getempowered and you start to see
results and you're like, Yes, Ifeel so much better today. Or,
you know, I had a really roughday, but not feeling down for as
long as I used to. And all thesedifferent types of things also
build to help you feel empoweredand encouraged to keep going so
(09:24):
that when tough times do hit,even as an adult, you're not
stuck for as long as what youmight have been before.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
When you talk about breaking the cycle, you're not
just talking about betweengenerations. You mean in
survivor's own lifetime.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because, I mean, when you
are trying to heal from traumaand you have all these unhealthy
coping skills and things thatcan literally physically or
emotionally harm you, but we doit because it's all we know.
It's the only way that we canhelp numb the pain or avoid the
pain or stuff down the pain. Or,you know, so we just we do these
(10:01):
things over and over because wehaven't been taught anything
else.
We haven't been able tounderstand that there are
alternatives. So once you do andyou start to find healthy coping
skills and new strategies, andyou reach out for a support
system online, and you start toput up healthy boundaries with
toxic people in your life, andall the things that you learn by
working with a therapist andworking with a coach, then you
(10:21):
start to see that, I'm breakingthe cycle. I'm not going to wake
up every single day stuck,miserable, feeling like I can't
do anything, feeling like I haveto settle, feeling like there's
no hope. I'm now waking up andsaying, You know what? Maybe
there's a possibility thatsomething good might happen
today, or at least something badmight not happen today.
And those are the kind of babysteps you take that start to
(10:43):
build so you can feel likeyou're moving in a new
direction.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh my goodness, I love that. So not just maybe
that something good will happentoday, but let's first just have
a day where something bad doesnot happen.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Oh my god. Yeah. I mean, so, you know, especially
early on when you start to workthrough, you know, a traumatic
past, a good day can just be theabsence of something bad not
happening. And that's okay.Like, there's no shame in that
whatsoever.
Because so oftentimes we wake upexpecting the worst, we figure
nothing good is gonna happen,And, you know, when something
(11:18):
bad does happen, well, ofcourse, that's what happened to
me. That's what always happensto me. Things never work out for
me, all the stuff we tellourselves. But sometimes when
you go through a day and it wasjust kind of status quo, nothing
really major happened, you know,in any event, well, hey, that's
a win. And that's a start.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Really empowering. I'm gonna have to write that
down for myself just the way yousaid that. Tell me what you know
about dissociation. And ourpodcast kind of focuses on DID
specifically, but justdissociation in general. Then I
also saw, you did a blog, aboutNLP and intentionally
(11:56):
dissociating.
So just in general, what do youknow about dissociation? What do
you think about it? And thisintentional dissociation what?
Tell me what's going on.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well, I mean, there's so much to talk about with with
dissociation. I mean, way morethan than you can cover on a
single podcast.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
But essentially, I mean, I realized that I
dissociated when I was sittingin a therapist's office years
ago and she told me, she's like,You are just dissociating. And
I'm like, What the hell is that?And I mean, literally, never
even heard the term, you know,years ago. And so she explained
to me and I realized so much ofwhat my life has been spent in a
(12:37):
dissociative state and that whenI was in the midst of the abuse
happening between five and 10,and that when the bullying
happened and so many otherevents in my life, my brain
would intentionally take me awayand not allow me to be fully
present so that it would save mefrom some of the pain. And that
(12:59):
really kind of put so much intoperspective for me.
I realized how much of my lifewas spent dissociating. Then I
realized that there weredifferent levels of dissociation
and different types. And ofcourse, you mentioned DID and
then there's different types,know, then you have dissociative
amnesia and losing time and allthese different things that you
learn along the way as to whatyour brain actually does when
(13:22):
you dissociate, why it does it,ways that you can help stay
fully present now as an adult tounderstand that dissociation
saved you, especially like ifyou're a trauma survivor, it
absolutely saved your life.Believe that. Now as an adult,
sometimes it's kind of a pain inthe butt, right?
Just because you're constantlyzoning out, you're not able stay
fully present, your mind'selsewhere, you're staring up at
(13:45):
the ceiling, and all thedifferent things that we do when
we dissociate depending on whoyou are. So understanding how
mindfulness can help withdissociation, but also
understanding dissociation canbe a good thing because it
allows you to kind of go to adifferent place intentionally
and just kind of zone out andthink about nothing and give
(14:05):
your brain a break and give yourmind a rest. That's a different
form of dissociation. I'vewritten a lot about my own
journey of dissociation on myblog in terms of just like what
it feels like and how much of astruggle it is now versus what
happened during the times oftrauma. And so again, there's so
much to talk about with that.
That's like kind of a broadoverview. And then you mentioned
(14:26):
about in NLP, we talk aboutintentionally dissociating,
which is different. It's adifferent form than the clinical
that you and I are talking aboutand that what Kathy discussed.
And so when you intentionallydissociate, you're trying to get
a broad level perspective of asituation, right? So you're not
(14:47):
looking at a situation from afirst person point of view.
Like you're not in the middle ofit. You're not feeling it.
You're not living it real time.You're not in that emotional
state. You intentionally pullyourself out.
Like, I mean, in your mind, youare intentionally removing
yourself from a particular setof events or a circumstance, and
you are literally seeingyourself go through that event,
(15:12):
which allows you to get anobjective perspective and see
what's really going on ratherthan what the emotional mind,
what the dissociation is tryingto tell you is actually going
on. So it's a way to get, tokind of show yourself some
compassion, some perspective, toget an idea of what it feels
like to be you going throughthat emotional state, going
(15:36):
through that traumatic event,whatever, the situation is. And
this gives you the opportunityto see what's really happening
so you can say, you know what? Ishouldn't beat myself up so
much. I shouldn't judge myselfso much.
I shouldn't jump to conclusionsbecause this situation is very
difficult and I have to work myway through it. And so when you
intentionally dissociate, youremove yourself and look at
(15:58):
yourself from across the room orfrom down on a hill or outside a
window or a doorway and seewhat's going on so you can give
yourself more compassion and amore objective option to deal
with whatever's happening.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Can you explain what NLP is in case someone doesn't
know?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So NLP is neuro linguistic
programming. It literallyteaches you to understand the
language of the brain. And ituses strategies and mindsets and
coping skills and information tohelp you in any event in life.
I mean, business coaches use it,trauma coaches use it, you can
use it against, you know, inyour fight against anxiety. It's
(16:36):
used in relationship coaching.It's literally retraining your
mind to see things from adifferent point of view, to show
yourself more compassion, moreobjectivity, more kindness, to
be able to understand that theway that you see something is
different than the way somebodyelse might see it. And that the
way that we look at ourselves,our life, our circumstances, the
(16:58):
people around us, our job, ourkids, our dog, everything, the
way that you look at it has aprofound effect on your very
well-being, your life, yourpersonality, the way you
approach challenges, everything.So, it teaches you to understand
how the brain works so you canreformulate and reframe old
negative coping skills, negativethoughts, old mindsets into
(17:22):
something that can serve you,something that can be
understanding and compassionateand empowering rather than
negative and disempowering andall those types of things.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Is there anything in general that we need to
understand about the brain andtrauma?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
The biggest thing to understand about the brain and
trauma is that really, no matterwhat type of trauma it is, your
brain is affected literally fromthe first time it happens. And
in terms of complex trauma wherethere are a series of events
that happen over and over andover repeatedly, perhaps over
weeks, months, years, whateverthe case is. Again, whether it's
(17:59):
something that is abuse relatedor perhaps there is repeated
trauma from someone who's in themilitary, or there are someone
who lives through repeatednatural disasters, all different
types of things, all encompassdifferent types of trauma. And
so really the main thing is tounderstand that the brain is
affected. Your thought process,your ability to cope, your
ability to cognitively processanything, to think.
(18:22):
To deal with daily life iscompromised when there's trauma.
So the idea here is that becausethat happens, there has to be a
way to fix it. And for a longtime, we always thought that,
well, you know, your brain wasdamaged and that was the end of
it and you were kind of screwed.What we know now and we have
known for the last, what,several decades that
neuroplasticity allows us toretrain the brain to develop new
(18:42):
pathways, create new pathways,new coping skills, and literally
retrain the brain to deal withsituations differently, to
default to a new healthy copingstrategy, to something
empowering, to somethingcompletely different than what
you've known. And so allowingthose old negative pathways, as
we like to call them, or I likeI like to call them, the old
(19:03):
negative pathways to kind ofjust fall by the wayside and get
worn over with dirt and grassand stones.
And eventually nobody goes thereanymore. And your default skill
is something empowering andhealthy and encouraging and
understanding. And so that'sreally the hope that the
foundation of healing fromtrauma is that you can heal your
(19:25):
brain and change your brain andthat in your mind. And that's
what really makes healing fromany kind of trauma possible.
Because if you couldn't do that,you you would just be stuck
forever in the state that youare in.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Understanding those things really offers some hope
because even someone who's beenthrough long term trauma and
repeated patterns of trauma,there's still time to heal even
their brain itself.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Oh my goodness, yeah. I mean, are people I know,
colleagues of mine, people who Iinteract with online, people
I've seen at conferences. Imean, people who are in their
sixties, their seventies aregoing through and learning to
retrain their mind and healingfrom trauma and understanding
that something that affectedthem maybe fifty years ago has
(20:14):
been part of their life for allthis time. And they're finally
able to take the steps to workthrough and process those
memories and heal that trauma.So yeah, it doesn't matter how
old you are.
Mean, you know, from what I, thestats that I know of is that
oftentimes, and again, you know,I never say always here, but
oftentimes men don't begin toeven think about processing
(20:39):
trauma until their 40s and womenin their 30s. So you're living
decades with all kinds of stuffthat you have no idea is still
affecting you. Mean, when I wasin my 20s, well, my late teens
and in my 20s and 30s, I didn'tthink that being bullied in high
school fifteen, twenty years agoeven made a difference. I had no
clue that being abused by ateenager out the street between
(21:01):
five and ten was going to affectmy self confidence, my self
esteem, caused me to haveproblems with food and my weight
and all these different things.And so I had no idea that any of
this was all together.
I thought I was just screwed andbroken and busted. And so once I
started to realize that, hey,all this makes sense, you know,
(21:22):
trauma affects my brain and thisis where all these things come
from. Okay, now I've got a plan.Now I understand it. What can I
do to heal it?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That's so powerful.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah. I mean, I think that's the approach I take,
Emma. It's really is I don'twant to be doing everything that
I did for the last thirty yearsthat really landed me nowhere
good. That's not to say that mylife didn't have good times. I I
had three amazing kids.
I've been able to do somethings. I had a job, as I said
(21:52):
before, in corporate, asengineer that served me for a
long time. So there were goodthings about my life. But by and
large, the struggles that nobodyever saw, the things that I
dealt with internally that Inever shared for all that time.
Like, I don't want to go back tothat.
Like, who wants to go back tothat kind of misery? So I used
it as an empowering way to say,I don't want to go back to the
(22:12):
way I was before. How can I moveforward? How can I work to heal
this stuff so I can feel more incontrol? I can look at life
differently and I can see thepotential rather than dreading
what's about to come throughoutthe day for the next year or the
next ten years.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So how does someone know when they're ready? Like
doing this kind of work can beso intense. It can be so
overwhelming. In some ways itgets worse before it gets
better. And it's just hard.
How does someone know whenthey're ready to go ahead and
try?
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Well, I think, and this, it's a tough question
because nobody, like, the waythat I knew I was ready was not
the way that somebody else knewthey were ready, and sometimes
you just kind of happen into it.Like for me, when I sought out
the help of a therapist, right?I went to her because I was just
coming off a divorce and I wastrying to work through my own
(23:09):
relationship challenges. And youknow, why does this keep
happening to me? And why am I,why do I keep having all these
things occur in my life?
And so I was in there for moreof like a relationship type of
thing. Well, it came out afterabout six months that I was a
trauma survivor. And then westarted going down that road. So
it kind of happened in a waythat I never saw coming because
(23:31):
I reached out for somethingtotally different. Trauma
affects your life, again,relationships, your personality,
your job, your kids, yourhobbies, everything.
So sometimes it's a matter ofyou reaching out for help in
another way and then itorganically comes out over time
that maybe you're ready to startdealing with this stuff. But I
(23:53):
think more often than not,you're just sick and tired of
being miserable. You're tired ofthe status quo. You're tired of
waking up every day, dreadingwhat's coming. You're tired of
not having, you know, being ableto set any goals, to stick with
anything.
You're tired of anxiety, youknow, being so much of a part of
your life. You're tired ofattracting, you know, the wrong
(24:14):
type of people. You're tired ofnot being able to put up healthy
boundaries. You're just like theold adage, you're sick and tired
of being sick and tired andsomething has to give. You know,
as you mentioned, traumahealing, it's a lot of work.
It is a ton of work, but thebenefits so far outweigh the
struggles because, again, thealternative is being where you
(24:35):
are for the rest of your life.So why not consider and be like,
You know what? I'm tired ofthis. I need to make a change.
Something's got to give.
Let me try this and see whathappens. And if you just dip
your toe in the pool, so tospeak, and just say, Okay, maybe
let's go explore this a littlebit with the understanding that
once you dive into it, there'sgoing to be a lot of stuff to go
through and it's going to behard and difficult. You're going
(24:56):
to spend a lot of times beingangry and afraid and upset and
sad and all different types ofemotions. Getting this stuff out
of your head and into the openso it's not so just stuck in
there, kind of going around likea hamster in your head over and
over and over, replaying allthese negative mindsets and all
these traumatic events andeverything in your life that you
(25:19):
want to change. Replaying that,sending it in a new direction.
So now all that stuff is out inthe open. It's out speaking with
a therapist. It's out on a blog.It's out of the journal. Maybe
you do art therapy, whatever itis that you do to get this stuff
out so you can process it.
And then it doesn't seem likeit's so strong anymore. It
doesn't seem like it has such agrip on you anymore. So it's
(25:41):
really, again, everybody'sdifferent. But in my experience,
some people just kind of happeninto it like I did. And other
times you just say, You knowwhat?
I am so damn sick of living mylife this way. Something's got
to change. And then understandthat nobody can do it for you.
Like nobody. I can't heal foryou.
A therapist can't heal for you.A coach can't heal for you. A
psychologist or whatever. Nobodycan actually heal for you. You
(26:02):
have to put in the hard work,you have to put in the effort,
but the helping professionalsare there to give you guidance,
to give you insight, to give youperspective, to give you tools.
But ultimately, it's up to us totake the reins of our own
healing and work our way throughit one step at a time, little by
little, and then understand thatthe outcome is worth all of the
(26:23):
pain and the struggle as you gothrough it.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
One of the struggles in the beginning is just finding
a good therapist. When someonehas been through all of these
things and in this pattern ofunhealthy interactions or toxic
people around them, it's hard toeven do that. And I feel like so
many of us go through severaltries of finding a therapist
before you do. How does a personsort through some of that just
(26:49):
to get to a good therapist sothey can start some of that
work?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Well, you're right. I mean, finding a good therapist,
a good coach, a good helpingprofessional is difficult
because there are tons outthere. I mean, they're of all
different types and walks oflife and everything. So the idea
is, of course, if we're talkingabout trauma here, in my
opinion, you always want to findsomeone who is trauma informed,
(27:13):
somebody who understands what itmeans to be a survivor, to go
through all the different typesof things that survivors go
through. And so understandingwhat trauma is and how it
affects your daily life.
So trauma informed therapists, Ithink, are key when you are
trying to work through all ofthese different types of
struggles. So it's really,unfortunately, there's no tried
(27:36):
and true method because I mightbe working, I might be able to
recommend half a dozen reallyamazing, awesome therapists who
are trauma informed and theyspecialize in all different
types of art therapy and EMDRand CBT and DBT and IFS and all
the different things. But if youdon't have a rapport with that
(27:59):
therapist, if you don't relateto them, if you're not
comfortable, it doesn't matterhow good they are. It doesn't
mean that that therapist isnecessarily a bad choice. It
just means that it's not theright choice for you.
So it takes a lot of research.You might have to go on a bunch
of interviews with therapists.And yes, you actually should
interview your therapist. Bringalong questions. Ask them if
they're trauma informed.
Ask them about their experience.Ask them about their
(28:20):
credentials. Reach out tofriends and trusted people
online who have experience withworking through trauma and ask
them who they recommend. And youhave to do your homework and
there's no really easy way to doit. For me, I kind of
fortunately lucked into,literally kind of fell into a
(28:41):
trauma informed therapist when Iwas seeking out help while I was
still at my corporate job, and Iused an employee program to help
find myself a therapist.
Like, I found a great one on thefirst try, but that rarely
happens.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Doesn't
Speaker 1 (28:55):
happen
very
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
So I was extremely lucky, but, you know, there I
hear story after story afterstory of people who have worked
with therapists, you know,trying you know, they've tried a
half a dozen, a dozen differentones until they found the right
one. So it can be frustrating.It can be and it can make you
feel like you want to give up.But, you know, when you find
(29:17):
that right helping professionalthat you click with, that
understands with, that you feelsafe with, that has all the
credentials that you feel areimportant, that really makes you
feel comfortable and safe intheir office, then that's when
all the hard work again paysoff. But it's just part of this
healing thing, this healingjourney, healing your stuff,
(29:38):
whatever you want to call it, ispart of that is trying to find
the helping professional that'sjust right for you.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
And what about clinicians? What do you think
they need to know aboutsurvivors that they're not going
to learn from a book or inschool?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Well, and that's the thing. I mean, I think in my
humble opinion, it all comesfrom experience. It comes from
learning about what a survivordoes by talking with them, by
reading about them, by watchingvideos of people who are sharing
their story, understanding theunique struggles that comes with
being a survivor of trauma. It'snot something you can just get
(30:15):
over. You can't just snap yourfingers and snap out of it.
You can't just tell somebodythat, Hey, that happened twenty
years ago. Get over it now. Itdoesn't bother you anymore. Like
those types of things areincredibly damaging to a
survivor, because it's soinvalidating. So it's really
just kind of comes with, Ithink, understanding what a
survivor is.
A lot of, trauma informedclinicians are survivors
(30:38):
themselves to some degree, sothey know what it feels like. So
I feel like real world, there wego, experience can play a big
part of it. But it's really justhaving that compassion and that
understanding and the knowledgethat certain types of approaches
work with survivors and certaintypes don't. And it's really,
(31:00):
again, I think life experienceplays a big part of it. But just
joining, I know some clinicianswho regularly will join survivor
chats and watch videos of peoplewho are sharing their struggles
every single day to get anunderstanding of what it means
to wake up every day and tostruggle so they can feel more
(31:20):
compassionate provide programsto people who struggle in the
way that they see.
It's really just, again, there'sonly so much you can learn when
you are in your classes andgetting your degrees and your
licenses. A lot of it is just,unfortunately, it's experience.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
And what about for your perspective, how would you
describe the difference betweenwhat it was like to wake up as
you before you learned all thisand what it's like to wake up as
you now that you've beenempowered by all this?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Well, I used to wake up every day anticipating the
worst, dreading the worst, youknow, nothing good is going to
happen today, all these badthings always happen to me, why
do I always do this? Living inextremes, catastrophizing
everything, living in a veryblack and white existence to
where I'm living on one side orthe other and where there's no
happy medium, there's no middleground. I'm either completely
(32:17):
miserable or I'm completelyhappy. And if I'm not one of
those two, I have no idea what Iam, so I have to default to one.
So I would default to beingmiserable all the time because
it's what I knew.
So I would expect bad things tohappen. I would blame myself
when there were tough times. Iowned everything that even
wasn't my stuff to own. I was anextreme people pleaser. I was
(32:39):
all just many different things.
But in a nutshell, I woke upevery day with no expectation of
things ever getting better. Iwas just trying to live one day
to the next, one hour to thenext, month to month, trying to
survive, trying to hide all ofmy pain so I didn't burden other
people, you know, and just puton a happy face, put on a mask
(33:01):
and just live my life likenothing's wrong. Know, happy go
lucky Matt. Everybody lovesMatt. He's great.
He's kind. He's helpful. Heloves football. He loves music.
You know, all the things that Ikind of built for myself up
around.
Like, I created a life or apersonality for myself that I
wanted people to see. Well, nowit's a more genuine, authentic
(33:22):
existence. You know, I believeme, I still struggle, anybody
who's a survivor tells you theydon't struggle anymore at all
ever, I would probably questionthat to some degree because
everybody struggles. It doesn'tmatter how long you've been at
this. It doesn't matter whatkind of coping skills you have,
how long you've been a therapistor a coach or how long you've
been at this healing journey inyour own personal life, you're
(33:44):
still going to struggle.
Life is still going to throw youcurveballs. You're still going
to have memories pop up, thingsand events that trigger you.
Just tough decisions, loss offamily members and loved ones
and pets, just tragedies andtraumas that happen in your
life. But the idea is thatyou're no longer dealing with
(34:04):
those events in an unhealthy wayso that you are constantly
blaming yourself, beatingyourself up, spiraling down into
depression and using unhealthycoping strategies. You're now
saying, Okay, I need to processthis emotion.
I need to feel this. I need tofigure out where it's coming
from, acknowledge it, and thenuse some self care and then
(34:25):
start to pull myself out of itin a time that feels right to
me. So it's a total shift in howyou approach life and approach
the challenges that still comeabout.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I think that you left me a little bit speechless on
the part where you were talkingabout how you're more genuine
now because I feel like yourauthenticity is part of what
draws people to you and makesyour support and the things that
you write about so real forsurvivors. So that was
interesting to me. Just thankyou for being vulnerable there.
(35:00):
I guess my last questionspecifically for you is what are
three things that a survivorcould do right now to change
that default even a little bit?
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Well, I think one of the first things is reach out
for the support that's availableonline. I mean, there are
countless survivor chats, blogs,Facebook groups, Twitter chats.
I mean, all kinds of peoplesharing all different types of
stories from all walks of life.The survivor community, you
(35:32):
know, I mean, we all haveprobably heard the stats of one
in four girls and one in sixboys are going to be traumatized
in some way before theireighteenth birthday. So that
means that there are millions ofpeople out there who are just
trying to go through the samethings that you are.
And so reach out online for allof the free resources, the
videos, the books, the chats. Imean, the survivor community is
(35:53):
one of the most accepting andcompassionate and empowering and
validating groups of peopleyou'll ever meet. And then you
know I
Speaker 2 (36:00):
agree with that. That's so true.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
It is. I mean, that's what really jump started my
journey was I went on Google oneday and just Googled survivor
chat, I think it was. And Ifound Twitter chats and books
and videos and all kinds ofstuff. That's what really got me
going in the direction ofreaching out for help. Utilize
the free resources that areright there available on your
computer, on your phone, at acomputer in the library,
(36:23):
wherever, because there's somuch out there, so much
information that people areputting out now every day.
That's one big thing. Anotherthing is understand that a lot
of what you struggle with rightnow in life as an adult is a
(36:44):
result of that trauma in thepast, and that that trauma
wasn't your fault, right? So nomatter what type of unhealthy
coping skill or struggles youhave, whatever it is in your
life, a lot of that we'relearning more and more can be
traced back to childhood trauma.And so, you know, do some
research on your own behalf. Youknow, why do I feel this way?
(37:04):
How is trauma related to thisillness? How does chronic pain
related to that, you know, pasttrauma? Like, do some research
on your own and kind of get anidea of what you're up against
so you haven't because one thingwe always One thing I always
like to say is that if you canput a name to something, a label
(37:25):
to something, if you canidentify something, it doesn't
seem quite as overbearing,right? Cause you figure somebody
else went through it cause theywrote about it. So kind of
getting out of your own head andout of this mentality that you
are in this alone is huge.
And doing a little research goesa long way to help you feel like
you're more in control and thatyou can kind of put a plan in
(37:48):
place of some things that youcan work on in your own life.
Again, something free. Go onlineand then do some research as to
why you feel certain ways andstrategies to help me feel
better because of this and allthat kind of stuff. You'll find
a myriad of resources available.And so again, reach out to the
survivor chats, do some researchon your own.
(38:11):
Then I think one of the otherthings, and there's so many
more, but one other thing isdon't be afraid to dip your toe
in the water and consider thepossibility that reaching out
for help might be a good idea.Because even now with all of the
attention given to working withtherapists and the Me Too
(38:32):
movement and sharing your story.It's still scary to come out and
share your story with somebodybecause you're going to feel
judged, you don't know whoyou're going to hurt, you might
get shame and backlash from yourfamily, your friends, your
coworkers. So you don'tnecessarily You're not always
able to just say, Okay, I feelmiserable. I'm going to go get
help.
And so if you can jump from A toB like that, then more power to
(38:53):
you. But if you can't, then sitdown and say, Okay, what would
it be like to start to try andtake steps to feel better? What
would it feel like to not wakeup miserable every day? What
would it feel like to be able toreach out for help and get this
stuff out of my head to somebodywho's safe and can help me make
sense of it? And so allowyourself to imagine the
(39:14):
possibility of reaching out forhelp and what that would feel
like a month from now, sixmonths from now, five years from
now, how much different yourlife might be if you reached out
and made a call to a therapistor a coach, somebody who can
help you make sense ofeverything.
By taking those baby steps, itdoesn't seem quite so
overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Thank you for offering some hope.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I love it. I spent so much of my life not having hope
that I love giving people hopenow. Because hope is one of the
biggest things about being atrauma survivor is if we don't
have hope, then there's nopoint. So we have to have hope.
Yes, yeah.
The original website thatstarted everything is called
Surviving My Past. If you Googleit, you'll find it. And I wrote
(39:59):
a book called Surviving Grief,which takes you through the
stages of grief as a traumasurvivor. Grieving your lost
childhood, grieving your lostinnocence, grieving the past,
grieving things from theperspective of being a survivor
is something that I had to workthrough on my own and I continue
to work through. So it'savailable free.
(40:19):
You can just go to that websiteand download it. Just Google
Surviving My Past and thenyou'll see a link right there at
the top and on the side of thepage where you can download a
free copy and you can read it.It's a very easy read. It's not
a very long book, but it takesyou through the stages and the
understanding that workingthrough the grieving process,
(40:40):
whether it's grieving a lovedone, a pet, grieving your
innocence in your past, whateverit is, it's not a linear
process. You don't go step one,step two, step three, four,
five, six and you're done.
Like it's one, two, five, four,three, one. Like you're going
back and forth and at a verydifferent pace for each
situation that you grieve. So,it kind of helps you just make
sense of that a little bit andunderstand that it's important
(41:01):
and necessary to go through thatgrieving process.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I had never thought of that before in context of
applying grief to that lostchildhood.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
And the childhood that you never had because you
were a victim of some type ofabuse, yeah, that's super duper
important. And it's verydifficult. That's something
that, you know, you work with oryou work through with a a
professional one. But this bookkinda gives you some ideas of my
experience with it.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
It's my pleasure, Emma. Anytime.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Is there anything else that you want to share?
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Well, think it's really just, you know, we're all
of us on this planet who aresurvivors. We're here just
trying to get through the day tomake sense of our life, to make
changes in the areas that wewant to improve on, or just see
a different mindset with. And soreally just don't be afraid to
(41:55):
take some small baby steps in adifferent direction. The status
quo of feeling familiar, ofsomething that feels familiar
and safe, is not alwayssomething that is healthy for
you. So be okay with thepossibility of dipping your toe
in the water, of reaching outfor help, and just seeing what
it feels like.
You might just find that it'spretty empowering and the
(42:18):
difference that it can make inyour life can be truly something
that is remarkable. If you everhave any questions, if you want
to learn more about the coachingand all that stuff, can just
head over to beyondyourpast.com.That's my coaching website.
There's links to the podcast.There's links to the daily
calls.
There's links to the books, allkinds of stuff. So check it out.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
My pleasure. Anytime.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Thank you for listening. Your support of the
podcast, the workbooks, and thecommunity means so much to us as
we try to create somethingtogether that's never been done
before. Not like this.Connection brings healing, and
you can join us on the communityat www.systemspeakcommunity.com.
(43:06):
We'll see you there.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!