Building Bridges Across the Volunteer State ft. Dr. Alfred Degrafinreid ll

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Check us out to hear the latest on life in the
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
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Speaker 3 (00:50):
Welcome back to Talking Tennessee with Yvonca.
I am your host and I am herewith a dear friend.
His name is Dr AlfredDeGraffenreid.
Welcome to Talking Tennessee.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Most definitely.
Well, he is with LeadershipTennessee, but he is so much
more than just LeadershipTennessee, and y'all get to hear
that.
My first question is who isAlfred de Graffin Ray?

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Well, that's a loaded question, but I'll certainly
answer it.
So I am a person who deeplycares about community yes, I
benefited from being in thecommunity but I'm also someone
who cares about convening andconnecting.
So I'm a natural born connector.
I like to bring people togetherto solve tough issues.

(01:41):
That's one of my favoritethings to do is to look at a
problem and figure out how tosolve it.
I guess I'm just wired that way.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yes.
Well, I'll tell you this.
When I met you in Nashville,what stuck out to me is, when I
walked up, you would havethought we knew each other
because you are a connector.
You immediately introducedyourself, I introduced myself
and we just started talking.

(02:08):
And I think to be a connector,you have to be able to be
approachable.
And did I know who you were?
No, I didn't know who theperson is, but I knew I wanted
to meet this person because Ilooked across the room and you
had that look in your face.
You were approachable.

(02:29):
And so Tammy White speaks sohighly of you and I just wanted
to see, okay, who is this personand why is he so relevant to so
many issues?
So we're going to talk about it.
So let's go back to yourchildhood.

(02:50):
What was you like as a child?

Speaker 4 (02:53):
Well, I was always accused of talking a lot, that's
one thing that I think I havethis honest.
It kind of runs in my family.
I can vividly remember being akid with my parents.
They bought me a VHS tape andthe name of the movie was Don't
Talk to Strangers, because Iwould go into Kroger and I would

(03:15):
meet everybody in there and sayhello and introduce myself and
they were like you shouldn't bedoing that.
It's one thing to be nice, butyou can't go around talking to
strangers.
Particularly as someone wholoved candy.
They thought that I would belike somebody could pull up and
say, hey, you want some candy?
I'm like sure.
And they think I'd hop insomebody's car and then be

(03:36):
kidnapped or something.
So they wanted to make sure Iunderstood that everybody's not
nice.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yes, and that's a hard thing to accept as a kid.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
As a kid, but.
I do think that I guess thecorollary to the story is I'm
the type of person who takespeople at face value.
I've never liked people to say,well, I don't like that person,
you're not going to like themeither.
I don't want you talking tothem.
That's not how I operate.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Me either.
I'm the person.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
It's one thing for me to get to know you and then we
don't get along right but it'sanother thing for me to say I
don't want to meet you justbecause somebody else said they
don't want to have your ownopinion absolutely well, I'll
say this I have.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
I'm from a small town , uh, called harriman it's about
30 minutes from here andcountry girl moved to knoxville.
I'll never forget um, and youwould think that's not a big
thing, but coming from a verysmall town of 7,000 people to
Knoxville, it was like a cultureshock.
And the one thing when I came toBearden High School was oh my

(04:35):
God, she talks all the time andso early in life I was told not
to talk.
So I can relate to what you'resaying, because people that,
especially when you're young,they tell you not to talk and
stay in a child's place and allthe different things in our
community.
But if we don't talk, then alot of rooms are going to be

(04:59):
quiet, a lot of people are notgoing to connect and a lot of
people will not be blessed.
That's the way I look at it,and so I'm so glad that people
did not cut your voice.
But did you ever feel like as akid that people wanted to cut
your voice, especially being ablack man, a young kid, and a

(05:21):
lot of men need a voice, but alot of men are not confident
enough to use their voice.
Did you ever feel like that asa kid that people wanted you to
cut your voice.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
Well, I mean, I feel like that some days as an adult
that people want to cut my voice, especially my wife.
She's like all right, I've hadenough, but I'm joking about
that.
I've had enough, but I'm jokingabout that.
But to be serious, my fatherwas the type of person who

(05:57):
always taught me, even as a kid,that you look a man in this
face and you shake his hand andyou certain things.
He's a.
He was a Vietnam veteran andtruck driver as a trade, but he
was just a very popular guy as atrade.
But he was just a very popularguy.
Some would say he had to getthe gab.
So I watched him walk intoplaces and he would talk to
everybody.
But he always said you got tohave your own voice and you have
to stand for what's right,because if you don't stand for

(06:18):
something, you'll fall foranything.
So that's a lot of differentanecdotes that he would share
with me as a kid and things thatmy siblings and I talk about
even to this day.
My father's no longer uh, here,he's deceased but he would
always say, um, just differentthings.
Like a mouth will say anything.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
And that would be something that I was like well,
dad, you know this happened andso-and-so said this.
He said, son, don't you know, amouth will say anything.
And it just that would alwaysgo over my head because I'm like
, yeah, of course a mouth cansay anything.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
And you're like, what do you mean?
What do you mean?

Speaker 4 (06:51):
It's like just because someone said it doesn't
mean it's true.
You have to use criticalthinking skills.
You do and you also have tolike and I do want to pivot for
a second, because you made methink about this You're fine
Kids like I'm an educator, I'vedone research, I have my
doctorate from Vanderbilt inhigher education, leadership and

(07:12):
policy.
But the reason why I think it'sso important when I mentor kids,
particularly kids who come fromthe other side of the track in
Nashville yes, I like to talk tothem and say that you have to
use that voice, you have to askquestions, because if we're a
community of people who make it,we normalize, not asking

(07:36):
questions, then you're nothelping the kids learn what they
need to learn.
You're not preparing them,you're not preparing them,
because you have to be able totalk Right and my kids ask a lot
of questions, especially, Imean, my son.
He tends to ask questions whenwe're eating dinner and I'll say
that's great because that'sfamily time, when we're sitting
at the table you can askquestions.
But I'm like all right, you'veasked enough, let's focus on

(07:57):
eating this dinner.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
But at least you give them open conversation,
dialogue to really talk aboutwhat is going on in their life.
Yes, and you know, and talkabout things that they can ask
you about, that they don'tunderstand.
Because I think a lot of timeswhen we were kids, there's
things that said, because I knowone thing that my grandfather

(08:18):
said to me that stuck with meand I tell everybody this my
grandfather said to me, when youdie, what will be your legacy?
And so as a kid I was like youwhat do you mean legacy?
What is that?
But the older I got and themore I got to get exposed to

(08:38):
different things, I realized itwas about making a difference.
My grandfather was an educator,very first black principal in my
hometown, very first black in alot of different fields of
education, and my grandfatherbelieved in, you know, building
up a legacy, building up yourcommunity, making a difference

(09:00):
and coming outside of yourself.
I tell my family all the timeis that okay?
So we do things for each other?
That's not.
That is not a thing of yes,it's great and it's easier to do
for your family, but when youcome outside your four walls,

(09:20):
what do you do outside your fourwalls?
That's gonna make a true impact, and so that's probably what
you were trying to figure outthrough life, growing up as a
black man.
And where did you come from?
Memphis, Memphis, Memphis.
And what was that like as a kidliving in Memphis?

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Well, I think Memphis is such a remarkable city and
I'm not just saying that becauseI'm from there, I mean the
culture, like the context ofwhat I do for a living, which
we'll talk about later.
I get to see various pocketsthroughout the state and I think
that Memphis, it, has its fairshare of challenges, like other

(09:59):
cities, but the culture thereyou can't find it anywhere else
the food, the shopping too.
I mean it's a find it anywhereelse the food, the shopping too.
I mean it's a lot of stuff todo in Memphis and it just seemed
like growing up it was a lothotter outside than it is today,
because I mean I would have alot of nosebleeds growing up
because it's so humid.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
Right on the Mississippi River and it'd be
hot outside.
But I'll tell you growing up.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Every time I've ever been, it's been hot.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
But it was worth it.
The food is great.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
The best shrimp and grits I've ever had in my life
came out of Memphis.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
Well, I'm sure there's a lot of best, a lot of
things out of Memphis.
But I'll say this other thingabout growing up in Memphis it's
kind of like that you see, theMemphis Grizzlies.
They talk about grit and grind.
You know, memphis is a grittylike, like everybody is trying
to really figure things out.
You can walk, you can go toMemphis and be like oh man, I'm
in Memphis.
I just love to be in Memphis,but I visit.

(10:57):
I don't live there.
I've been gone for over 20years but I do like to go back
home.
But but such a remarkable placeand I think that it's
misunderstood in a lot of ways,one of my favorite things that I
like to ask questions about.
To people that I expose toMemphis for the first time, they
always say you know, I avoidedthis place, I didn't want to

(11:17):
come.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
I think media gives Memphis such a hard I don't know
the word for it, justexperience what the media says
the experience would be like togo to Memphis.
I think that it's not a fairshake in the media because a lot
of times that people think thatthe crime is just so bad and

(11:42):
everything is so bad.
But we got crime everywhere.
I mean let's be clear that everycity has crime, but you got to
go to a city and figure out whatis the best.
You know things that you can doin the experiences and I think
that you, coming out of Memphis,you're a success story.
You've done so many greatthings.

(12:03):
So, as a young man, how did youget on the community path?

Speaker 4 (12:13):
Well, I will be remiss if I don't mention this
thing, even though I grew up inMemphis.
My mother is from Tipton CountyTipton, okay, and that's just
north of Shelby.
She's from a little small towncalled Drummond's, tennessee.
You may have heard of Covington.
Like that's the big city inTipton County, but we have about
250 acres there and mygrandfather had animals.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
So you grew up on a farm.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
On the weekends we'd go.
I love to see the bulls.
Oh wow, you know you seechicken and roosters and you
know different animals around.
I can't imagine growing up andnot being exposed to that Like
if you want a peach, just go outthere and get it.
You know like you want an apple.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
And I think kids nowadays they don't get those
experiences.
Because I know when I was a kid, and probably when you were a
kid, you know we rode bikes, wewere outside.
You know, the biggest thing wasmy mother used to say don't let
the traffic the street lightscome on.
Yes, and so we enjoy beingoutside, versus kids nowadays

(13:20):
don't enjoy that.
But that's what we enjoyed andhad a great time, and that was
community.
Yes, if you think about it, yes, it was.
That was our first buildingblock to community.
Right Is your church upbringingand you know when you play

(13:40):
sports or when you're indifferent groups and academics.
Tell me what was that like as akid?

Speaker 4 (13:50):
Well, the most apparent one is to start off
with church.
So I grew up in the CMEdenomination Christian Methodist
, Episcopal.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Okay, I grew up Methodist.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
And it's very small, very small church.
Actually, before that, this isinteresting for this story I go
back to the first church Iremember was a United Methodist
Church and it was, I remembergoing as a kid and for some
reason that church closed andthen we joined another church

(14:26):
and it was, I think at the time,the first time, a black
congregation and a whitecongregation joined together.
Okay, so that was a uniqueexperience in the probably late
80s, early 90s and it was a verygreat mix.
We ended up going to CME Churchafter that Christian Methodist

(14:48):
Episcopal and that's when Ireally had the opportunity.
I never missed an opportunityto lead the scripture, to lead
the prayer.
I sang in the choir.
My mom was the usher president,so I was on the usher board.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
So you were truly involved.
Oh, absolutely, she taughtSunday school.
Do you remember the usher boardwhen we were growing up?
Yeah, usher board was serious.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
It's serious.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yes, kids have no idea.
And you know you had to, trulyyou know behavior had to be on
point in church.
You didn't talk in church andyou didn't get to eat in church
either.
Right, there was no iPads backthen.
No, there was not, so I can seemy mom right now.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
She could just look at you and tell you to
straighten up.
That's the type of person.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
She was Exactly that.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
Look and she taught school.
So you know, it seemed like thechurch.
Really all the school teachershad to also teach Sunday school
so as a result of her teaching,we had to be there too.
So we were in church all thetime.
But I think, even leading up tothis point, the reason why I'm
comfortable in front of amicrophone is because I had
those experiences.
Like I looked forward to BlackHistory Month because we had to

(15:54):
do a report and go before thechurch and talk about black
leaders and what they did, Ialways looked forward to my
Easter speech.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
So your parents exposed you at a young age at
speaking in front of people.
You know, a lot of times wedon't realize that we got
prepared by things that ourparents made us do, that we
really didn't want to do at thetime and didn't understand why
it was important, but it reallyinstilled great things in us

(16:21):
before we even knew that.
So let me go back a little bit.
So you're married.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
Yes, and you have children.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
What is your wife's?

Speaker 4 (16:31):
name.
So my wife's name is Tiffany,tiffany.
If someone asks me how longwe've been married, I always say
not long enough.
There you go, so that's a goodtidbit.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
That's a good thing you did real well.
Someone shared with me.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
A former colleague shared she was like.
I heard this amazing person saynot long enough.
There you go and that's a goodanswer, but we were married in
2012.
So we've been together forquite some time now and, just
fantastic, she's a social worker.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
She works for the Department of Veterans Affairs,
and I call her a socialite aswell because we do a lot of
events in Nashville.
She's co-chaired somehighfalutin events and we're
actually co-chairing an event ina couple weeks at the
Skirmishorn Symphony Center, andwe also are co-chairing the
Library Gala, which is a bigdeal in Nashville too.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
So you married somebody that shared community
yes, she's all about communityAbsolutely.
That shared community yes,she's all about community
Absolutely.
And I think that to me, youhave to in marriage.
I feel like you have to evolvetogether and you have to build
together To be a communityleader.
I feel like that.
A really great community leaderalways has, you know, a spouse

(17:45):
that is supportive, you know,cheers them on.
A gentleman told me years ago,an older gentleman.
He said behind every powerfulman you'll see a strong woman.
And I believe that you know,and vice versa.
It's just you got to have acheerleader and someone that
will challenge you.
Does your wife challenge you todo more in the community or do

(18:08):
certain things in the community?

Speaker 4 (18:10):
Well, I wouldn't say that I lack in that area.
I think I'm probablyoverextended.
But I can tell you some thingsthat I've noticed over the years
.
She claims to be an introvert.
I don't know if she is or not,but she says she's an introvert
but she really wasn't a personwho did a lot of things in the

(18:31):
community and so, but she woulddo things, but she wasn't like
on a lot of boards and thingslike that, but she was great at
doing these things.
She's like oh, I'm okay, I wantto focus on what I'm doing, did
you?

Speaker 3 (18:43):
help her find her way into that, Because the reason
why I'm saying that?
Because David was the same way.
David is an introvert and he'scoming out of that shell and
like even now, you know, Davidis, you know, getting involved
in more things, that type thing.
But I've literally said Ichallenge you to do this, or

(19:03):
challenge you to find your wayin whatever you know is going to
make you happy in the community.
And I can honestly say David'sblood drive really was what
opened up for him, because hecould relate to that.
He knew he needed blood, heknew the community, you know,
came and gave blood, donatedblood for him, and so David

(19:25):
could relate to that and he tookoff.
Is there a thing that you couldsay, hey, you know, maybe this
was the thing that got her tolike that.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Well, I would just say that you know, both of us
have been in Greek letterorganizations for a long time,
so public service, so.
So like we would get a lot ofour volunteer work through that.
Right.
But I think my favorite momentis I serve on the Convention
Center Authority in Nashville,which is a great organization a

(20:00):
great board to serve on it'sappointed by the mayor and
confirmed by the city council.
And the mayor appointed my wifeto the sports authority, which
is, I was, like man, that'sgreat.
Like I mean, convention centeris great too, but sports
authority like they're buildinga new Titan stadium, you know,
every sport team is a part ofthe sports authority.

(20:22):
So she and she loves sports.
So like she looks forward to gointo those meetings, like so I
think the disconnect for somepeople is that you may go to a
meeting and people may not benice to you, they may be rude or
or the meetings last too longand it may not seem like it's a
value, a value add.
But I have chaired value add,but I have chaired.

(20:42):
I've probably been on 25 boardsover the last 15 years, so I've
done multiple boards, but Ireally like the boards that are,
you know, quarterly, because Ican, you know, kind of condense
it and get the work done and Idon't have to go every week or
two.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
And you feel like you're making an impact,
absolutely, but.

Speaker 4 (21:03):
I like to drive.
I like to drive my work throughthings I'm passionate about.
So, like.
For instance, I volunteer at aschool just to help mentor
fourth grade students who aren'ton reading level and come from
a zip code in Nashville that ifyou're born in that zip code,

(21:24):
you have a higher likelihood ofbeing incarcerated than anywhere
else in the country.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
So when I look at these kids, I think of myself
like I grew up in that type ofenvironment.
So, but I had a structuredpathway because my mom was a
school teacher.
So, like I didn't have any bigissues on learning things
because my mom was there, you'redisciplined.
And I have older siblings.

(21:50):
I'm the baby.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Oh, okay, I am too.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
I really think about my.
I can remember my oldest sister.
She really helped me with a lotof homework.
And my mom she poured into alot of the students.
So a lot of times she was likeyou like go ahead and get your
sister to help.
But when it was necessary, likewith multiplication, I remember
that was a tough subject for me.
It was hard for me to get thatmemorized and I even struggled

(22:15):
with some long division.
But outside of those two things, I've always been great at
numbers.
So once I mastered it I gotmuch better.
So I think about like we thinkabout that when we raise our
kids.
We have two kids, alfred III andChancellor Joelle, and we work
with them.
We give them extra work to doand instead of being outside

(22:40):
playing or just being in thecamp, we're going to embed
certain things, like when wetravel anywhere.
Like we spent a week in NewYork for spring break and of
course they like to stay inTimes Square.
So their experience of going toNew York as kids is different
than mine when I was growing up.
But we got a chance to do justremarkable things and we've been

(23:01):
twice with the kids.
But we also built in a visit toguggenheim we built in a visit
to the met, like we want to makesure that, even though we're
somewhere else, you get to seethe arts, you get to see the
sciences.
We want to make sure thatyou're exposed to everything.
I taught them how to ride thesubway, which was a challenge
for me because I've alwaysridden the subway, but I

(23:22):
couldn't understand the subwaythe same way I can understand
riding the metro in DC.
So now that I understand how toride it, it's very easy for us
to get around.
I want them to see that publictransit is not a bad thing.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
Just because we live in a city where it's not as much
ridership on the buses doesn'tmean that people shouldn't ride
the bus Right.
You know, the more traffic youhave, you think that more
shouldn't ride the bus.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Right, you know, the more traffic you have, you think
that more people would ride thebus.
And Nashville has traffic.
We have some traffic Y'all havetraffic.
And so does Knoxville.
Yes, we do, we do.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
Kind of at the split where it comes together.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
But ours just like really got bad, like in the last
three years.
You know the one thing aboutNashville is y'all's traffic has
been that way for a minute butKnoxville's.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
You ever been to a UT game?
Let me tell you that's someserious traffic too.
Yes, it is Getting to the gameis.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
I hate to say it.
It's a fun experience, but onceyou get there, though, you have
a great time and then leavingit's like unbelievable.
But I would not give that upfor anything.
Go Vols.
So let's get back to thecommunity part and your
leadership.
What made you decide to getyour doctorate?

Speaker 4 (24:38):
Well, I was working at Vanderbilt.
I was an associate vicechancellor and I did all the
community relations forVanderbilt and I did all the
local government relations.
So I was there and I was like,well, I already have a terminal
degree.
I got my law degree in 2012 andI just kind of felt like I want
I always want to be back ineducation, like I was elementary

(25:01):
education major at first and mymom convinced me not to do it.
She said I know you'repassionate about education, but
I want you to get a career thatyou can make some money, don't?
I don't want you strugglinglike I did.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
I bet you she was so proud for you to become an
attorney I mean getting your lawdegree and all that.
I bet you she it was like aproud moment, it was absolutely
a proud moment for that one, tooproud moment for me.

Speaker 4 (25:25):
It was absolutely a proud moment for that one too,
but I think it was like Ilearned about adverse childhood
experiences when I went throughLeadership Tennessee in 2019.
I was like what are ACEs?
They kept saying ACEs.
I said, what is that?
And I started thinking aboutjust the area I grew up in,
things that just happened topeople.
I think, like man, this is kindof crazy that people experience

(25:47):
things Like.
I lost my father at 14 and itwas one of those things where I
knew that I could either go anddo some things I shouldn't do or
I could go and be positive andcontinue on this trajectory, and
I chose that way.
But I had positivereinforcements.
I have older siblings.

(26:07):
My oldest brother was veryinstrumental in making sure that
I stayed on the right track andright path, and so that thing
was very important to see that.
But to answer your questionabout that, I asked my mom one
day and she said you know, I'mjust be honest with you, you

(26:28):
turned out a lot better than Iexpected, just given the
adversity that you experiencedas a kid and that really touched
me and losing your father

Speaker 3 (26:36):
at 14 years old, because you could have went down
the wrong road very easily.
So how long was you atVanderbilt?

Speaker 4 (26:46):
So I worked at Vanderbilt for three and a half
years or so a little under fourand then I transitioned to
Leadership, tennessee, which hasbeen a great thing.
But you asked me abouteducation.
So one of the fringe benefitsof working at a university is
that they give you a discount onschool.
So I was like, well, I alreadyhave a terminal degree.
But I would like to focus in onsomething that I'm really

(27:09):
passionate about, and I waspassionate about government
relations too and just being acommunity person and looking at
metrics and how do we lift allboats and focus in on areas.
And Vanderbilt's a greatinstitution, it has rich
resources.
And a lot of times they'll gointo the community and say
Vanderbilt's a great institution, it has rich resources.

(27:29):
And a lot of times they'll gointo the community and say you
know, we're not going to come inhere with a savior complex.
We want to come in and say howcan Vanderbilt help the
community if you all want help?
And that was a very great job,to see how a huge institution
like that can go and transform,you know, different communities.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
In a lot of ways and that really opened my eyes to a
lot of things, and I get to seea lot of the same stuff now in
this current role as well.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Well, viewers, you know he jumped over this.
He said he went through theclass.
What year of leadership?
Tennessee 2019.
2019.
That's impeccable for you tobecome the CEO of a how can I

(28:16):
say it?
Of a organization that bringscommunity, brings connection.
That brings community, bringsconnection, helps build up your
community.
You went to that class, cameout of that class and God got
you into being the CEO.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
What was that like?
Well, it was interestingbecause my predecessor is
someone that I adore.
She did such a great job withLeadership Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Let me go back for one second.
Was it a goal to be that?

Speaker 4 (28:49):
No, it was not.
Please tell us how thattranspired, go ahead.
So my predecessor she sent anemail out and the email said you
know, I'm basically will bedeparting from Leadership
Tennessee in a few months.
And I immediately got on thephone and I was like oh my.

(29:09):
God, kathy.
I said what's going on Likethis can't happen.
You did such a great job atLeadership Tennessee, I can't
believe that you're going toleave.
She said well, it's sointeresting you called me.
She said actually, pass yourname on to the board chair,
somebody who's been active, whoparticipates in everything.
And I was like oh, no, it's noway.
I said nope.
I said it's no way.

(29:30):
I'm pretty sure that this smallnonprofit is not going to be
able to meet my salaryrequirements.
And I said, well, just let theboard chair know I'm not
interested.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
So a few months went by, so you told leadership
Tennessee you was not interested.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
I wasn't interested at first.
I mean I was interested, butthis is a deal.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
But you didn't think that they can meet.
You know your requirements andyou were in a good position.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
Right.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
At the time.
I mean, Vanderbilt was my dreamjob.
It was like it was nothing.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
I didn't think I would do anything else outside
of that, because I really lovedoing the work, like, and.
But this is what happened.
A few months later they had asession in Clarksville, actually
at Fort Campbell.
Ok, well, we got to shootmachine guns and repel and, you
know, get to meet the command ingeneral and I got this.
I did one of those activitiesand I was like, wow, I really

(30:33):
miss this.
This is, this is somethinggreat.
I mean, had I not done that, Iprobably would not have applied
for the job.
But I was like you know what Imiss learning things every
single day.
As a government relations person, a lot of the work that I would
do on campus would be, you know, figuring out how to reroute
alleys and, you know, go beforethe border zone, appeals things

(30:56):
you're probably familiar withand sidewalks and imploding
buildings and making surepermits are there.
So I mean that nuts and boltsof the government relations
piece.
I really I could do it with myeyes closed, but I was like you
know, I really want to be at theforefront and get a chance to
learn things the way that I feltI want to do, and I'd already

(31:20):
done statewide work on campaignwork, so I'd already been to all
95 counties and I just reallyenjoyed the assets across the
state.
Like you go to Knoxville,knoxville is like Knox County is
different from the countythat's right next door, like as

(31:41):
soon as you step across thecounty it's different.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
So, like you think about, all 95 counties.

Speaker 4 (31:43):
You have a different issue per county.
That's not like yourneighboring counties.
And then you think about, likejust the regional aspect.
Like a lot of people don'tunderstand that East Tennessee
is more than just Knoxville.
Some people think that that'sall to East Tennessee.
But we have Tri-Cities, istotally different and they have
that regionalism thing thathappens a lot, I agree you think
about to East Tennessee, but wehave Tri-Cities, it's totally

(32:04):
different and they have thatregionalism thing.
That happens a lot, I agree.
You think about like going toMemphis and Nashville and
Chattanooga and Knoxville andyou just really get to learn
like these are the things thatare happening, this is what's
happening that's working well,and here's some things that we
need a little improvement.
And because my mind is likethat I'm always trying to figure

(32:25):
out a solution to things, I waslike this is a job I want to do
.
So I applied for it.
I probably got my applicationin very late and I interviewed
for it and as soon as I got tothe interview I was like set,
this is the job I want to do.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
So it took you to get to the interview to figure out
that that's really what youwanted to do.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
Right, that's exactly how it happened.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
And so the biggest thing with that is, a lot of
times, you know, we never we getthings that we never thought
about, and I think that's a Godthing, because you're sitting
here saying is that I was at mydream job, I was happy, you know
, everything was going great,but God had a different plan for

(33:08):
you, and I think the biggestthing is is that, well, I don't
know have you ever donenonprofit before now?
before leadership, not runningone, okay, but I've been board
chair for several, but it's adifference, it's different, it's
totally different.
Let me explain this quickly.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
Vanderbilt University is a non-profit too, but it's
more of a corporate non-profit.
When you go from that, I had apretty decent size staff and I
managed four programs.
Then you go to a smallnon-profit where it's only two
people.
Finally we expanded again toget to three employees again.

(33:47):
So all of us do the same workand it takes a special type of
leader to understand that.
My rule is kind of I always saythat I'm not too good to grab a
broom and a dustpan, I'm nottoo good to mop the floors or
clean the toilets.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Like, the work has to get done.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
And I think that as a leader, you really understand.
You have to show your team thatyou're in the trenches too.
I agree, even though I have thetitle of president and CEO, I
handle some social media as well.
I work on newsletters, I handlethe budget, I work with my
board, but I mean all of it'sconnected, so it's not like one

(34:28):
person only does one thing.
All of us do everything.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Right, you're a team.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
That's a great thing, and we always say this.
If my team were listening rightnow, they're going to be like
okay, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
He's about to say we punchabove our weight class.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
There you go.

Speaker 4 (34:45):
And that's what we have to do, and I think we do it
well, but there's always roomfor improvement, no matter what?

Speaker 3 (34:50):
So tell the viewers what is Leadership Tennessee?

Speaker 4 (34:53):
Okay, well, leadership Tennessee is the
premier community leadershipprogram in the state of
Tennessee, statewide program.
Okay, we're a nonpartisan groupof individuals.
We convene leaders to take themthrough an immersive experience
where they get to see thedifferent parts of the state and

(35:14):
they spend 24 hours or sotogether in seven pockets of the
state in a 10-month period.
That's our signature programand it's really not one of those
things.
It is for established leaders.
That's our main program, is thesignature program.
So you have to be anestablished leader, so we're

(35:36):
exposing them to different partsof the state.
It's not necessarily I'm tryingto teach you how to be a leader
and I want to run a diagnosticon you and figure out your
leadership style.
Most people have already donethat you how to be a leader and
I want to run a diagnostic onyou and figure out you know your
leadership style.
Most people have already donethat.
Like, you're already a leaderbefore you get there.
Now we want to expose you todifferent things that are
working different places, withthe ultimate goal of being able

(35:56):
to share ideas, because it couldbe something in Harriman County
that you all saw 20 years ago,that you all solved 20 years ago
, and then you have, let's say,fayette County in West.
Tennessee, and they may bedealing with the exact same
issue that you all solved.
So if you get those two peoplein a room and they connect, then
they can say well, let me tellyou how we fixed this issue.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
And the ultimate goal is to improve our state and
we're nonpartisan, we're notpolitical state and we're
nonpartisan, we're not political.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
It's impossible to not have conversations that are
political adjacent Right, but wedon't take stances on anything.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
The class members are the ones who have those
conversations and we take themthrough that process and we just
actually today, a couple hours-ago we graduated class 11,
class 11 and we finished inMerville Merville.
It's how they pronounce it.
We finished there, graduatedthem today and a few of us went

(36:54):
on Blackhawks through TennesseeNational Guard and it was a
fantastic experience.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
I think they flew over my house.
I'm sure we did.

Speaker 4 (37:04):
So it's a difference in doing that in Paris,
tennessee, because the terrainis different.
To fly over Neyland Stadium andto see that and to see the TVA
building, the UT administrationbuilding.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
I know that was a great experience.

Speaker 4 (37:22):
It was fantastic to see that I didn't realize how
many people in Knoxville andsurround area had pools.
I mean, it seemed like lookingdown, everybody has a pool here.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
But also the water is very important here, like we
know it's a lot of people wholike that.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
The lakes are nice.
So I mean, but that's oursignature program.
Then we have LT Next program,which is our mid-career program
which is geared towards.
It's not really an agerequirement, but it's typically
ages between 25 and 45.
And we do embed more leadershipprinciples there.
I do a few trainings on changemanagement and how to handle

(38:03):
difficult conversations.
You know things that would bebeneficial that I think I would
have had when I was 25 years old, what would have helped me get
to the next level.
So we that's about half thetime.
We run two programs a year, soit's four sessions with theirs
and it's 30 people that gothrough that program every six

(38:24):
months with theirs, and it's 30people that go through that
program every six months, okay,okay.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
So let me ask you this If there's a leader that
wants to pivot in their career,at whatever age, what would you
say?
What advice would you give themIf they were in that position,
if they wanted to pivot?
Because that's basically whatyou did, right, you were at a
job that you truly loved, andyou went after a job that you

(38:54):
really didn't want at first, butthen your desire of it after
you came through the interviewprocess of it.
That was your dream job too.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
Oh, absolutely.
I would say that you know Ihave a strong faith system and
you have to pray about thingsand if you have that
relationship, you have access togo on to pray about it.
I mean I can I just think aboutTwo things happen sitting in

(39:26):
the room.
My and I brought it up severaltimes I'm like you know I'm
thinking about applying for thisjob, but I don't know.
I said it's just, I can't takethat kind of pay cut Thinking
about applying for this job.
Then I started pivoting tosaying you know, I think I would
be happy doing this kind ofwork Again, statewide work.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
Did y'all hear what he just said?
Happy?

Speaker 4 (39:50):
Right, and let me say it, I was happy at Vanderbilt
too, but I was like it's adifferent happiness, and this is
the other part, too, that Ihope that the listeners will
take away from this.
I have been a very good numbertwo.
I actually think I'm built tobe a chief of staff or a number

(40:15):
two person because I don't haveto be in the front.
I love to manage things.
Don't take it out of context.
I love to be in control of asituation.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
If I'm a fourth opportunity, but you're okay
with being number two.
I love to be in control of asituation if I'm afforded the
opportunity, but you're okaywith being number two, I love it
.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
I love for somebody else to have to deal with all
that stuff.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Viewers.
Did you hear that?
That's a strong statement.
I don't think I've ever heardanybody explain it that way.
You know you hear people say,oh, I don't have to be in the
front, I don't have to have theattention, I don't have to be in
the front, I don't have to havethe attention, I don't have to
have this.
But that's not what you'resaying.
What you're saying is I'm okaybeing number two, as long as

(40:59):
everything works together forour good and everybody around.
That's what I'm getting fromyou is that it's not even about
the attention, part of it orwhatever.
And I do think let's go back alittle bit of when you said
you've always been a talker,you've always had that gift of
gab, and most people think thatpeople that had the gift of gab
always wants to be in the front.
But a lot of people don'trealize is a lot of times we

(41:20):
want to step back a little bit,but if we don't got it, it will
be dead silence.
And I think in your communityyou've got to have people that
are okay with being number twofor the greater good, and if
they're number one, that's okaytoo.
Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 4 (41:39):
I'm saying that and I'll say that the buck stops at
the person who's in control alot of the time.
So, like when you're number one, you have to fall on the sword,
sometimes for your team.
Sometimes I mean this iswhether I was leading this
organization or in otherleadership positions.
My background has been inpolitics and in government.

(42:00):
I have worked for a lot ofelected officials, a lot of
great leaders, and so I'mnatural with being a number two,
because if your name's on thedoor or you're on the ballot,
you're the person who'ssacrificing, who's running for
office.
I'm the person that's going tomake you look good and make your
life a little easier.

(42:21):
But the point of the whole storyI just gave there is that I
just had the desire to justfigure out can I lead an
organization?
I want to know like I know Ican do it, but I've never put
myself out there because peoplewho know me very well will say
he loves a microphone, but let'sgo back to church.
The reason why I love amicrophone is because I don't

(42:41):
mind welcoming guests.
It's not that the attention ison me, it's let's do that.
It's not about the attention, Ireally get uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
I think a lot of people don't realize, when
you're extrovert, thatextroverts get tired of being,
you know, that person that isalways speaking and all you know
what I'm saying.
And just because you're good atthe microphone doesn't mean
that you always want to be onthe microphone.
And what I'm hearing from youis I'm stepping up and using my

(43:14):
voice because I want to makechange in my community and I
know that I have to be thatvoice to say, hey, let's work
together, Like with your staff.
You're sitting here saying,okay, it's three of us now, but
we all work together.
So if that means I've got to gosweep the floors, that's what
needs to be done.
We're working together for theteam and we're all going to do

(43:37):
well at it, and I think a greatleader has to be that way is
being able to move around whereit's needed.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Right.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
The biggest thing that I think that leaders have
to understand if you're going tobe a great leader is it's where
you're needed.
What do I do when there issomething lacking?
I have to step up to the plateand be that leader and get it

(44:09):
done.
That's what I'm hearing fromyou, and I think a lot of times
you need mentors.
So my next question to you iswhat role has mentorship played
in your professional journey andhow do you continue to pay it
forward?

Speaker 4 (44:26):
Wow, now that's my favorite question.
I mean, I have a personal boardof directors that I don't make
decisions that impact me withouttalking to them first, and it
tends to be you're going to lovethis because you're a business
owner.
People who are business owners.
They can make some gooddecisions because a lot of times

(44:48):
the decisions they make impactpayroll and somebody else needs
so like I love talking to peoplewho are used to that type of
pressure because I've never youknow, run a business that I
created myself.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
Right.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
Right.
So one of my mentors I talkedto about this opportunity and
she told me.
She said, alfred, you would becrazy not to take this
opportunity.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
I told her.
I said thank you.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
And I was like well, not that, and I don't want this
to come off in case one of myboard members thinking like,
well, it seems like he didn'twant.
No, I was skeptical aboutBecause, really, if I'm being,
honest like.
I always am and I'm going totake it there.
I get in trouble for that allthe time.
I was told by one of my mentors, and she meant well.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
She told me that I should not apply for this job
because Leadership Tennesseewould never hire a black person
to lead it, and because I'veworked for Democrats all of my
career, it's no way that anorganization like this would
really give me a fair shake.
And that made me think.
And it was no malice oranything.

(46:02):
No, she was just being a greatmentor, telling me how she felt.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Truly transparent.

Speaker 4 (46:08):
Right.
No, she was just being a greatmentor, telling me how she felt
truly transparent, right, and soso when, um, she told me that,
I was kind of thinking, oh yeah,well, that that's kind of what.
I'm not gonna go after the jobbut then I talked, but see,
that's why you have more thanone mentor.
Yes, and what and when I talkedto a few other people they were
like, oh my god, you shouldabsolutely do it if you can
afford to take that kind of paycut.
And it was so interestingbecause when I sent her the

(46:32):
press release as me as a newpresident and CEO, she called me
and said you know what?
I was completely wrong and Iknow that you're going to do an
awesome job.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
That is a great mentor.
Because even a mentor can bewrong.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
Absolutely so, moving to paying it forward, when I
was a law student in Indianayeah, I'm a Kappa too, so I went
to Indiana University for lawschool.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Shout out to all the Kappas.
Shout out to the Kappas yes.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
There was a gentleman there who was the biggest
movement shaker in Indiana.
I mean for three years I calledhis office and gotten meetings,
set up coffee meetings.
I just want to come and justpick his brain about stuff.
He was a big lobbyist in thestate of Indiana and every time
for three years he counseled onme.

(47:24):
And.
I'm sitting there like I'venever had that issue before in
Tennessee, because you know Ican pretty much get on anybody's
calendar in politics because, Ihave a good reputation for
working for good people.
And you worked hard to buildyour name and this guy never got

(47:45):
back to me and I made a promiseright then I would never do
that to anybody.
If somebody wants to meet withme, particularly a young college
student- yes.
There's no way that I'm goingto say no to meeting with
someone who could probably get anugget or two from me.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
And it may work out that you get a nugget or two
from them, like that's kind ofhow the mentorship thing works
Because you can learn fromanybody you really can.
And people have great ideas, itdoesn't matter how old you are.
So, like when I when I decidedthat I take so many coffee
meetings because I can't affordto do lunch meetings with
everybody and it's hard to get.

(48:23):
It's hard to get an hour, yeah,to like for just you know,
randomly.
So if I do a speakingengagement and I say about how
important it is to network andto talk, then you got to walk
the walk you know like.
I say connect with me onLinkedIn yes and then let's
connect.
At some point I'm like, wow, I'mnot able to go to 15 lunches,

(48:44):
you know.
So I started going to coffeemeetings.
I don't drink coffee, but I dodrink tea.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
It's a sacrifice.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
And I can afford to buy everybody a cup of coffee.
Yes, that's true, you know youcan't like.
You could really spend a lot ofmoney and you know Nashville,
lunch prices are expensive.
Knoxville too.
Knoxville too, oh, I love.
Gus's, by the way, here.
Gus's is great, but I probablywould be at Gus's every day if I
lived here.
But my point is this, righthere If I can't give back to

(49:16):
someone knowing that I've hadsome great mentors I mean
fantastic mentors then I'm notdoing my job.
I'm not doing what.
I think that that's disgracefulfor you to benefit from someone
who's poured into you and yoube unwilling to pour into

(49:36):
somebody else.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
I'll tell you this.
I believe there's two types ofpeople givers and takers.
And you chose not to be a taker.
You chose okay, I was fed, butnow it's my time to feed.
That's basically what you'resaying, because it's like you

(50:00):
had mentors.
That has built you up.
What would it be like if youdidn't feed someone else, if you
didn't open that door for someyoung person that was just like
you?
Why say I want to make adifference if all I'm doing is
taking?
Do you agree with that?

Speaker 4 (50:19):
Well, I definitely agree with that.
So, like this, this is the letme give.
Oh, this is perfect.
I had a lunch meeting the otherday with a dear friend and he
said something that stood out.
He said I'm so glad that we'reable to have lunch.
He said I'm impressed with you.
He's a little older than I am,but he said I want to start this

(50:42):
lunch meeting now lunch meetingby asking you what can I do to
help you.
I want to start this lunchmeeting by asking you what can I
do to help you?
He said, because every timeI've interacted with you over
the past couple of years, you goout of your way to help others.
And he said this young brothergoes out of his way to help
everybody and it's a selflessact.
So what can I do to help you?
And that really I mean thosecomments you don't get that

(51:04):
often.
That was even better than himdoing anything for me.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
Exactly, just to get the acknowledgement.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
Yes, and what I'll say.
Like the other part that'ssimilar to it.
A gentleman called me one dayand I answered the phone and I
said, hey, what's going on?
And we talked for about five,seven minutes and I said to him.
I said, all right, now we'vetalked.
I said what can I do to helpyou what you need?

(51:31):
He said I was just calling tosay hello, I don't need anything
.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
But you wasn't used to that.

Speaker 4 (51:37):
I said but you know, I'm just wired to always try to
help somebody and I realized atthat moment that I need to
unwire and not think that justbecause somebody's calling me
that they need something.
But in the role that I'm in, alot of people call me when they
need something Correct.

(51:57):
So I got to learn how to justhave a little more discernment
and you got to learn how toreceive.
Yes.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
I'll tell you this the best thing to me is being a
giver.
I find joy in it, I love to seepeople smile, I love to make a
difference.
But the biggest thing my pastorand my husband had to pour into
me Ivanka, you don't know howto receive.

(52:27):
And so I would say to my pastorI'm like, yes, I do, and he
goes no, you don't.
He said because it makes youfeel uncomfortable.
He said, when people want togive to you, you don't know how
to receive.
And so when he said that,coming for my husband, coming

(52:50):
for my pastor, I was like itdoes make me feel uncomfortable.
Now, part of it.
I wasn't exposed to that for along time.
People didn't pour, you know,and so sometimes when you get
the phone calls, like what youwere talking about is that
you're in a position that peopleare constantly calling you
because they need something.
So it wasn't, you probablydidn't.
It didn't feel normal to youthat they need something.
So it wasn't, you probablydidn't.
It didn't feel normal to youthat they were just calling to

(53:11):
check on you.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
They didn't need anything from you, and so let me
clarify this thing quickly,though, like the need something
could be hey, I'm looking forsomebody's number, or like it's
not always like that what you'resaying is just needing
something out of you.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
You know that you have to.
You know you're asking to beyou, to give something, and I'll
say this to you learn how toreceive and be okay with it, and
I'll tell you at the beginningof receiving.
It will make you feel souncomfortable it still makes me
uncomfortable, but you give alot.

(53:50):
When I started researching youbecause you were recommended to
me that you would be a goodinterview, the person spoke and
said this would be a goodinterview because all that he
does for others OK.

(54:11):
When I started researching youand reading all the different
things that you haveaccomplished, it was like wow,
looking at your age versus whatyou've accomplished.
It was like wow, looking atyour age versus what you've
accomplished.
You know you've had to givesomething your time, so it's

(54:33):
time for you to receive.
I hope you can take this fromme.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
Oh God, use me.
It's time for you to berewarded in a spiritual way that
God wants for you to see yourworks.
You don't accomplish all ofthat, alfred I'm talking to you
as a friend right now.
You don't accomplish all ofthat without a reward season.

(55:04):
It's time for you to open yourheart to your reward season and
for you to be able to see thateverything that you've done, it
was in God's plan and it was forGod to give you that reward
season and it is your season.

(55:24):
Hear me when I tell you you'regoing to call me and you're
going to tell me do you remember?
this on the podcast, Because youcan't do that much work for the
body of Christ and not have areward season.
Allow yourself to receive andallow yourself to see that he

(55:45):
has so much more for you.
But you have to open your heartup to that.
And Leadership Tennessee is apath that you're going down.
But you're touching so manypeople in Leadership Tennessee
that probably has never said,hey, you just speaking to me
that day, acknowledging me thatday or, you know, making me feel

(56:10):
good, you could have savedsomebody's life, you could have
stopped a lot of things just byspeaking to them.
Right?
So when you go back intoleadership, when you leave here,
I'll say this to you is openyour heart for your reward
season and understand that hisplan is so great.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
Bless you.
Bless you.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Mm, hmm, my next question when the spirit of the
Lord comes in, it moves me tospeak.
In your life, he's got so muchgreat things for you.
How do you stay grounded withyour values while advancing your

(56:53):
professional across a diverseindustry?

Speaker 4 (57:01):
Well, you know it's so interesting.
You ask that question because Ithink about my upbringing a lot
and you know I didn't miss anymeals but it was a struggle
quite a bit, but one of the bestexperiences.
I didn't think it was a greatexperience at the time.
My grandfather owned a roofingcompany, so I would go on roof

(57:24):
houses with him on, you know, onweekends and over the summer,
and you got to wake up at likefour o'clock in the morning.
You know he'd be all over theMississippi Delta and I started
out picking up the debris afterthey take the pitchforks and
take the shingles off, and myjob early as a small kid was to

(57:46):
go and pick up all the debrisand throw it on the back.
Then I eventually made it toyou know, carrying shingles up
the ladder and driving nails.
So one thing that I loved aboutthat experience I'll tell you
what I loved about it and I'lltell you what I didn't like
about it.
I love the fact that he wouldpay me $100 every single time.

(58:08):
If you're like 7-8 years oldpicking up shingles and you go
out for a few hours, here's $100and he's going to buy you
breakfast and he's going to buyyou lunch and he's going to give
you $100.
He did that.
What I didn't like is I gethome and my sister would be
around and he'd say come overhere, little baby girl, here's

(58:32):
$100 for you too.
And I've never appreciated it,even if my sister's listening
right now Because you didn'tunderstand it.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
I'm like, you know what You're like.
I had to pick up shadows, yeahand you get the same $100.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
Yeah, and you get the same $100.
But now that I'm older, I gotto spend time with them and I
got to learn that he said son, Idon't want you to be a roofer,
I want you to know how to do itin case you can't find a job and
you need something.
He said but this is hard work.
We talked about how hot it wasin Memphis by 11 o'clock.

(59:06):
It's already 110 degrees on theroof.
It's hot outside.
Yes, and if you've got to puttar up there, you're trying to
fill a hole or something to fixa roof.
That's hard work and I got toexperience hard work at an early
age like that and I knew I'dnever want to be a roofer.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
Right.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
But I liked to see the amount of money he would get
paid.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
He would carry so much, and he taught you work
ethic.

Speaker 4 (59:32):
He taught me work ethic.
And one thing I'm most proud ofmy grandfather for.
He was very colorful.
I won't give you many detailsabout his background, but I saw
him transition from having afull black staff to Latinx

(59:52):
community and one thing he toldme was he said, son, I'm going
to pay them the same price, therate that I pay my other
employees.
He said I can't understand whatthey're saying.
He always thought they wouldtalk about it.
I'm like, granddaddy, they'renot talking about you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
My mother used to say the same thing.
He said they're talking aboutit.
I'm like granddaddy, nottalking about you.
My mother used to say the samething.
He said they're talking aboutme.
Why are they talking?

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
I said granddaddy not talking about you but he said
it's important for me to paythem the same fair rate because
I would want somebody to pay methe same fair rate.
I want my grandson to get afair rate, you know.
So like I got to see that earlyand I really like it was just

(01:00:31):
good bonding, yes, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
Another thing your grandfather.
Between you and your sister,nothing against her, but I'm
just telling you, me and mybrother.
My brother would get away withmurder.
Okay, my mother.
Now that's a figure of speechy'all, but let me just go and
clarify that part.

(01:00:53):
He would get away with so muchstuff, but my mother was so hard
on me and it would bother me attimes I wouldn't like how's he
getting away with all this?
But you're making me do all ofthis and it took me to get older
to see.
My mother saw what was in meand so she challenged that part

(01:01:19):
of me.
And I think your grandfather sawwhat was in you and it was like
, if I can teach him work ethic,if I can teach him a plan B for
whatever size you know I don'twant him to be a roofer, but you
know, here's a trade that youcould do if nothing else works
out.
I think he saw something in youthat you didn't see in yourself

(01:01:41):
at the time.
And, thinking back to that,think about it.
You're now showing other peoplework ethic.
You're showing other people howto be a leader.
You're showing other people howto have a voice and have an
opinion and believe in something, stand on it.

(01:02:01):
You know we had a conversationoff camera.
I was just trying to get toknow Alfred and what stuck out
to me is you want people to beconsidered and you don't care
what race it is, you wanteverybody to be considered,

(01:02:22):
absolutely.
You know, and that's what Itook from our off the camera
conversation and being inleadership, tennessee and being
over that, I know that you haveall walks of life in your class.
What could you say that yourbiggest thing that you want them
to take away after that 10months, if they could pick one

(01:02:46):
thing that you taught not yourteam teaching them what's the
one thing that you'd want thatclass to get from you?
And that may be a hard question.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
I don't think it's necessarily a hard question,
because it's a lot of examplesthat I could share.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:03:06):
But I want people to walk away from their program
year understanding that thesystem is perfectly designed to
produce what it produces.
Okay, so there aren't easysolutions to anything Like.
I don't think that we'll eversolve poverty.
I don't think we'll ever getrid of homelessness.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
And when I chime in and I'm not a negative person,
but I think that the way thesystem is created, there will
always be people who don't havea lot and it's going to always
be people who have a lot Speakon it.
So how do we?
I feel like we're going to bejudged 50 years from now by how

(01:03:50):
we treat the people who arehomeless, how we treat people
with mentally ill, how we treatpeople who are incarcerated.
I feel like they're going tosay how come someone didn't step
up and say that this is wrong?
But but the time is going totell with that, because you just
you never know.
And I was thinking of one.
I call them Floydisms becausemy grandfather's name is Floyd,

(01:04:10):
but he would always say if youdo good, good will follow you,
and that's probably the bestadvice that I've ever received,
because he would.
He never missed an opportunityto say that.
And when people go this program,I want them to see all the good
that's happening, but alsounderstand that bad and I'm not

(01:04:32):
saying people are bad, I'msaying there are certain things
that are occurring that are bad,things that we can improve and
make our state a better place.
Like I'm a Rotarian, I'm aproud Rotarian.
I said today at Closing Retreat.
I said look what Rotary standsfor service above self is

(01:04:53):
exactly what I'm looking for inpeople to go through our program
, like everybody who goesthrough Leadership.
Tennessee should want toimprove our state.
If you don't want to improveour state, then I don't want you
to be a part of our membership.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Don't take up a seat.

Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
Don't take up a seat I tell people this about.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
you've probably heard multiple people say I want a
seat at the table.
I want a seat at the table.
I heard one guy say I want toown the table and I'm like.
So owning the table?
That means that it's only youropinion, okay, seat at the table
.
If you're not.
If you're, if you take up aseat at a table but you are not

(01:05:39):
giving anything in that seat,you're a taker.
You've got to be able.
If you get a seat at the table,it is our duty to work together
with everybody at that table totry your best for the greater
good.
Now, I'm not saying that's easy.
It's not easy becausepersonalities are there.

(01:06:02):
People come from different walksof life and people get stuck in
the way they believe things tobe.
I can give leadership Knoxvillethis.
I went through that program andthere was even things that I
felt like I knew it to be thisway.
But being in that class andhearing other people's

(01:06:24):
perspective on the same subject,it opened my eyes to things,
alfred.
It changed my thought on thingsthat's in my community and it
even showed me about a lot ofthings in Knoxville I didn't
even know existed and I livehere, you know, so that was a
good thing.
My takeaway was I learned moreabout Knoxville and surrounding

(01:06:49):
counties.
I learned that I may believesomething to be this way, but
listen to other people'sperspective on something.
It might teach you somethingyou know and you.
It doesn't mean that you'rewrong.
It may just you wasn't exposedto know it to be any different.

(01:07:10):
You know so I think thatExposure is key.
It is and you have to want to beexposed because some people
it's like I'm good where I'm at.
How can you be good?
Because if you're still onearth, you got work to do.
If you're still on earth, youknow God is expecting you to do
some things and so you have todo for your community and you're
going all the way across thestate.

(01:07:31):
So what can you say?
How do you approach?
Bringing together leaders fromacross rural and urban Tennessee
to create solutions is myquestion.

Speaker 4 (01:07:44):
Well, you bring them to the table and you can't
assume that they know everything, and that's one thing that I've
had to deal with in my career.
I've worked with a lot ofelected officials.
Like I've told you, I've workedwith some very wealthy people
before.
And just because you're anelected official doesn't mean
you're the smartest person inthe room.
Just because you have a billiondollars doesn't mean you're the

(01:08:05):
smartest person in the room.
Just because you have a billiondollars doesn't mean you're the
smartest person in the room.
That's why you have thosesupport systems around you.
I never want to be in a groupof people where I'm the smartest
person.
I don't either Because if I'mthe smartest person, then that
means I'm not learning anything.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Nothing.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
And so, to answer your question, we may have a
person who works in agriculture.
I love a session that we hadbefore recently.
I guess around this time lastyear, there was a guy who came
in and was talking about AI, buthe was talking about AI in
terms of agribusiness and howthey're using technology to

(01:08:40):
plant seeds so they can flourisha lot better than just throwing
it down there.
I'm sitting there like man,this is crazy.
Like you're using thistechnology, like I drive by corn
stalks, drive by, you know youmight see soybean, they're
growing soybean or something youknow what.
Like in Memphis you see cottona lot.
But if you know that they'reusing technology to yield more

(01:09:04):
like, why not use technology tohelp you have more, so like.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
But I think people get scared, especially like the
AI thing.
I think a lot of people getscared of the unknown, right.
You know, and let's be honest,none of us like change, because
change can feel uncomfortable attimes, but you can't grow if
you don't have any change thatcomes.

(01:09:28):
You're going to be stagnant.
That's where you're going to beand I think that a lot of times
now, granted, I can say thatwith change, we all want to be
protected, we all want security,and that's what sometimes we
get scared of is if this changecomes, am I going to still feel

(01:09:49):
protected and feel secure?
But I think that surroundingyourself with people like minded
people that are trying to dogreat change for all, I think
that's the key to it.

Speaker 4 (01:10:05):
Oh, I absolutely agree with it.
I mean, I don't know if you sawme light up a second ago.
I'm like a change managementguru.
I do a lot of teaching onchange management.
And the reason why I do it isbecause the jobs I've had, I've
had to respond to change.
And the reason why, if I'vebeen successful, is because I'm
adaptable.

(01:10:25):
I know how to adapt to change.
When you're stuck in one areaand that's all you know, then
that's going to be a sad thing.
One of my other mentors I havea few of them he always says
there's a difference between 20years experience and one year
experience, times 20.
I want people to catch that.

(01:10:45):
Say it one more time there's adifference between 20 years of
work experience and one year ofexperience times 20.
So if you're doing the exactsame thing in year one for 20
times, you hadn't grown.
That's not 20 years experience.
So, like when I think aboutbringing I'm going to come back
to the question when I thinkabout bringing people into the

(01:11:08):
same room and to share how theyfeel about certain things,
because I talked briefly aboutpolitics earlier, but let me
explain a little better.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
Go ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:11:21):
Education is not political, but the way we do
education is highly political.
Say that one more timeEducation is not political.
It should not.
Not political, but the way wedo education is highly Say that
one more time.

Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
Education is not.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
It should not be political because we're talking
about how we educate ourstudents.
It should not be political, buthow we do education is
political because there aredifferent standpoints on how you
know, how it's applied.
So we could take any subject,like when you bring politics
into something, it can make itworse.

(01:11:51):
You know and I'm I used to be apolitical junkie I still dibble
and dabble and follow what'sgoing on, but I can't get caught
up in.
You know what's going on withthe media, right?
You're only here here in oneside of the story sometimes.
You are.
And that's one thing, that kindof.
That's why I teach when.
I particularly love talking tohigh school students because

(01:12:15):
they're going to make a decision, like juniors and seniors,
they're going to make a decisionin a couple of years that's
going to impact the rest oftheir lives.
So I like to talk to them andsay come on, let's think about
what you really want to do andhow you want to do it.
Do you like?
Because there's this bigargument right now about whether
it's a return on investment togo to college.
And when I'm talking tostudents they're like well, I

(01:12:35):
don't know if I'm going to go tocollege.
Well, guess what?
College isn't for everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
It's not.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
And you know I don't want to force college down
somebody's throat, but I say, ifI were a betting man, I bet on
going to get an educationbecause I can show you the data
If you have a four-year degree,you're going to make this much
more money than someone who hasa high school diploma and every
time you get another degree.
But the misnomer is thisbecause the smartest people I

(01:13:04):
think I'm a smart guy, like I'mI'm I think I'm a smart guy, but
I have way more common sensethan I have book sense and
sometimes people have all thebook sense and like, wow that
person'ssmart, but they can't do simple
tasks.
So I feel like I have a betterapproach to things because I I

(01:13:24):
come at it from where I'm strongwith.
I'm very good on having acommon sense approach to things,
because I come at it from whereI'm strong with.
I'm very good on having acommon sense approach to things,
because I feel like I have myfinger on the pulse and I can
kind of think well, this is notgoing to work, I can't see that
working out.
I'm very logical.
I try to think things throughto this logical conclusion.
Some people will just thinkthrough to the halfway point and

(01:13:45):
give up.
No, I want to think all the waythrough to the end, I think
common sense.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
Honestly, I would rather have common sense than
book sense Because I feel likewith book sense and you can say
I'm wrong, we can agree ordisagree but I feel like book
sense.
If you study a book long enough, okay, you're going to gain
knowledge from that book.
But common sense, either yougot it or you don't, and common

(01:14:11):
sense can get you through somethings you spoke about you know.
You know people being smart.
Okay, there's a lot of peoplethat have every degree there is,
but that's not what got themwhere they needed to be.
I think opportunity.
You can be less than smart, butif you are put in a room with

(01:14:38):
opportunity, you can do anythingwith the right opportunity.
Oh yeah, you know what I'msaying, absolutely.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
It doesn't mean just oh well,you've got to be this smart
because there are so manymillionaires, billionaires.
Whatever you want to say is Ifyou talk to them.
I think President Barack Obamasaid it best.

(01:15:02):
He was like don't go in a roomof people that you think is all
smart and think that you're dumb.
He said, because a lot of timesyou can go in that room and
you're the smartest one in there, but because you just using
your common sense on differenttopics and you help the people
that you thought was smart, youhelp them solve some of the

(01:15:26):
biggest problems.
I agree with that.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
Yeah, I mean, because that's what teams are made of.
Like you got to have people whothink differently from you.
If you're around people whothink identical to you, you're
not going to grow, you're notgoing to reach your full
potential.
And you know it's hard toexplain that to kids because
it's you know kids in middleschool and you know it's silly.

(01:15:50):
But you have to figure out away to understand that what you
do now will impact things later.
Like I didn't have social mediawhen I was growing up.
Social media came out when Iwas a college student, you know,
and you had to be in college toget on Facebook.
But I'm so grateful because allof us had fun in college, right

(01:16:12):
.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:16:12):
You know so I wouldn't want my college career.
You know, with people cellphones watching.
You know people make mistakesall the time and do things that
they're not proud of.
I'm glad we didn't have thatpiece.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
I'm glad we didn't either, because there have been
a lot of things exposed that wewouldn't want to be exposed, you
know.
So that that's I agree with youthere.
When it comes to young people,what would you tell young people
of today of becoming a leader?
What would you say if you werein a room of young people?
What advice would you give themabout becoming a leader?

(01:16:46):
Because a lot of times whenyou're young let's be honest,
when you're young, that's notsomething you really want to be,
because you don't know thevalue of being a leader.
Do you agree?

Speaker 4 (01:17:01):
I would say that I always call myself the
accidental leader.
Uh-huh I always call myself theaccidental leader.
I had good grades in school, somy peers in high school voted me
to be class president.
I didn't.
I'm like, well, I'm thinking inmy head why do you want me to
be class president?
Just because I do my homework,you know like.

(01:17:22):
But what happened was I wasplaced in a lot of situations
where I had to lead and becauseof that it helped me become a
better leader and, like, I did aprogram in Memphis called
Bridge Builders which wastransformational and it's very
similar to Leadership Tennessee.
But they pick five to sevenstudents from every high school,
starting in 10th grade.

(01:17:43):
At least at that time that'show they did it.
I think they've expanded.
But they pick five people frompublic and private high schools
and then they take them througha monthly.
They have to go to meetingsevery month.
Then you have a week long.
We did a week at the Universityof Memphis.
I had a roommate who was thefirst Jewish person I'd ever met
.
We got a chance to talk aboutour faith and our values and all

(01:18:08):
that chance to talk about ourfaith, you know, and our values
and all that.
And then the next year we wentto Ole Miss for a week, but,
like I knew so many peopleacross the city of Memphis who
were my age and that was one ofthose ethereal experiences where
we were only put together tobreak down stereotypes.
That was the whole premise backthen.
We got to break downstereotypes because at the time,

(01:18:31):
and maybe even today, there mayhave been some racial tensions
in Memphis.
So that experience opened up myeyes more than anything up
until that point, because I gotto see, wow, those kids in this
private school they're readingthings that's not on our summer
reading list and even if it is asummer reading list, I might or

(01:18:53):
might not read it, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
But I was smart enough to be able to catch on
and pay attention.
But I would tell the kids toanswer your question Read, read,
read.
If you see someone who you thinkis a leader or somebody who's
doing something positive.
Figure out their story, findout their why.

(01:19:15):
How did they become who theyare?
Something happened in theirlife where they got to the end
of the road and it was a fork inthe road.
They could either go to theleft or the right, and they
chose which direction to go.
In a row, they could either goto the left or the right and
they chose which direction to go.
Why'd they choose that?
That's why I read a lot ofnonfiction and biographies and

(01:19:39):
memoirs, because I want to knowman, this person's a great
leader.
What happened in their life?

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
How did it get them there?
What made them become what theyare today?
Yes, and I think, thisgeneration.
I will say this I speak a lotout in the community and I hear
a lot of young people say well,your, your generation is so hard

(01:20:06):
on us.
Your generation speaks down tous.
You know, what would you say toyoung people?
Of giving them the fight tokeep going?
Because what I speak is we allhad to find our way.
You see us now, you see mygeneration now.
But we had to find our way,just like you're going to find

(01:20:28):
your way.
And I always try to speak lifein young people and let them
understand.
Is you know what?
We didn't have it all figuredout.
We did not know.
We had to make some mistakes,just like they're making
mistakes and they're going tofigure it out, just like we had
to figure it out.
But I tried to speak life inthem instead of tearing them
down.
What would you say to people oftoday?

(01:20:51):
What should they be saying toyoung people?

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
First you got to do something like I talked to.
I've spoken to a few Jack andJill groups and I'm friends with
their parents and they theycall me and say man, I don't
know how are you able toresonate with my kids?
They don't really like thatBecause nobody wants to listen
to their parents.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
That's the truth.

Speaker 4 (01:21:16):
So that's number one.
But if they come in and I'mgoing to keep it raw with them
I'm going to tell them thingsthat and you could say the exact
same thing their parents say,but they're going to take it
from you before they'll take itfrom their parents.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
But we did the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:21:29):
We did the same thing .
We did.
It kind of blows my mind that Ididn't know.
It kills your impression.
I say this to my mom a lot.
I was like you know, we talkevery day, my mom and I talk
every day, that's awesome.
I always say to her like all mycousins, I always loved Aunt
Trish, you know, aunt Pat, youknow I always loved Aunt Trish.
You know, aunt Pat, you knowthey call her different things
Aunt Patricia, and I was like,but man, you were tough on us

(01:21:53):
and I said but now, like youactually are pretty cool, yeah,
and she was like it took youthis long to realize that, yes,
you know, but like Like you hadto grow up and become an adult,
right, you know?
Because I grew up in an erawhere you're not friends with
your parents.
I'm not your friend.
That's kind of how it'sdifferent between saying we
don't want to talk to you.

(01:22:13):
That's different.
I didn't grow up in a householdwhere they were fighting for my
no, our roles were established.
Very much so.

Speaker 3 (01:22:23):
You're the child, they're the parent.

Speaker 4 (01:22:26):
You do as I say, not as you please.
Exactly that's what I heard andI raise my kids that way.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
I mean I raise my kids.
I do believe a kid does have anopinion, in a respectful way
they can say you know what theiropinion of something is.
But I do think you, a lot ofpeople, need to establish the
role they are and then do Ithink you can be friends with
your kids.
I think when they become anadult and they become

(01:22:55):
responsible, then there's whereyou can like with me and Adrian.
Me and Adrian is a real estateteam, okay, and Adrian, when she
first came to work for me, shedoesn't work for me now.
We're partners now.
But when she first came on theteam she worked for me and I
said to Adrienne we have to gofrom mother and daughter to now

(01:23:17):
I'm your employer and you got totake, you know, be able to
allow me to delegate to you, youknow.
But at the same time I had torealize is, you know, once we
cut off and all that kind ofstuff, we can have a friendship
as long as we both respect it.
Now, three years in, becauseAdrian was my assistant at the

(01:23:39):
time Three years in, adrian saidI want to be a partner.
What does that look like, mom?
I don't want to be yourassistant anymore.
And at first I'm like what doyou mean?
You don't want to be myassistant, cause it felt like
you were happy though.
Yes, I was happy, but it feltlike you know what do you mean?
But then that shift, it tookGod to show me she's outgrown

(01:24:02):
that position.
You should be happy, you should, you know, and, and she can
share the responsibility, and soI think that a lot of times
people don't get that.
Is that okay?
There's a time and a place foreverything.
And I think young people need tounderstand that, because some
out here say some of thecraziest things to their parents

(01:24:23):
and I'm like what?
Because you know we wouldn'thave got away with that.

Speaker 4 (01:24:26):
No, there's no way I didn't have that.
Nor would I even fix my lips tosay it was the respect.
It was kind of like my dadwould always say.
He'd say, boy, when you finallycome to, you're going to be
looking at me from the ground.

Speaker 3 (01:24:41):
So that's kind of how he would talk, and you know
that I brought you in this worldlet me answer this question.

Speaker 4 (01:24:45):
Cause I want to make sure that cause this is so
important.
The kids.
Like I try to relate with kids.
My ministry are black males.
I want to make sure that theysee like I love what the hundred

(01:25:06):
black men in middle Tennesseeis doing, like I'm a member of
the organization and we have 100kings and we take them through,
starting in the fifth gradethrough 12th grade and we have
some collegiate scholars as well.
But, like I love how they get tosee all of these incredible
leaders who are at the top oftheir game every single month

(01:25:29):
and get to spend time with them,and leaders that look like them
.
Yes, and that's important, Ithink to my viewers.

Speaker 3 (01:25:35):
I would say this and I say this all the time it's no
takeaway from you.
When a black person says I wantto be the example, Like he just
said, basically it's a columnin his life, he wants to mentor
black males, that doesn't meanthat he doesn't care for the

(01:25:59):
opposite rates of males.
It's just saying his callingand his area expertise.
He's chosen to go down thisroad, but it doesn't take from
anyone else, Because I don'tthink I can resonate with it.
You get what I'm saying.
Yeah, yeah, and our sons anddaughters.
You know I don't know if youknow this I have a black child

(01:26:20):
and I adopted a white child.
It was an employee of mine'ssister and I adopted my son and
it's wonderful and I show myblack child.
You know, there is a lot ofgood in our race.
I show my white child there's alot of good in his race but

(01:26:42):
there's bad in both.
But I will say is that moreblack men need to see more men
like you?
They need to see you can makeit.
You know, I've had thisconversation with my son.
I said there will never be aday that you walk out of this
house that you have to worryabout not coming back in.

(01:27:06):
I said but your sister is adifferent situation and I think
when the world realizes it'sdifferent.
As a black man you know myhusband is a real estate
appraiser.
He's had guns pulled on him.
All kinds of different thingshas happened to David throughout
his career as a black man, youknow.

(01:27:28):
So I look up to you saying mycalling is is to show some black
men they can make it.
So my question is how.
How do you reach them?

Speaker 4 (01:27:44):
Well, I think like the hundred black man is one of
those good things that you can.
They're already there and Imentioned those students that I
mentor at the school.
Kind of the reason why I loveto do that is because you know a
lot of the kids and I'm notsaying this the whole thing but
a lot of kids who go through the100 Kings program.

(01:28:04):
They come from two parenthouseholds.
They they parents.
Some of them have terminaldegrees and like, like a lot of
those students are going to bejust fine.

Speaker 3 (01:28:14):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:28:14):
But like when I go to this zip code, like it's not
that way.
It's not the same and and Ithink that we can do all it's
like a both end.
But you it's kind of likehaving multiple kids.
You love your kids the same,but you got to love them
differently.
Like having multiple kids.

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
You love your kids the same, but you gotta love
them differently and it's okay,it's okay I'm so glad you just
said that you can love your kidsdifferently and that doesn't
mean you love one more than theother.
It's just the loves aredifferent right and it's okay
and you know what.

Speaker 4 (01:28:43):
You know what you need and, like I know, I was
treated differently than mysiblings in a lot of ways.
Um, simply because I just Icould do the work, but I didn't.
I didn't want to really have tostudy, I could just go in and,
naturally, do pretty well ontests.
And when I was so like you can'tcome home with the B when I

(01:29:05):
know you're capable of makingA's Like so we would go through
and look at.
From the time I can rememberlook at report cards.
My dad said hey, you proved tome that you can make an A in
this class.
You can't come in with a C.

Speaker 3 (01:29:20):
Yeah, I was raised the same way.

Speaker 4 (01:29:22):
So like those are things that we have to do and
see, I like to talk to studentsabout things that they normally
wouldn't talk about.
So like it's not uncommon foryou to go in somewhere and this
little kid asks you how muchmoney you make.

Speaker 3 (01:29:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:29:38):
You know and I tell them the hourly rate.

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
They don't know how to calculate it.
No, you know, because I knowhow to calculate it because I'm
in the HR department.

Speaker 4 (01:29:46):
I know how to like multiply the number of times the
hourly rate and they give youyour annual pay.
But like I really think that isso important for kids to just
see positivity, because you justnever know.
I always go in with a positivemindset when I get there because
, you know, even if I'm having abad day, no one would ever know

(01:30:09):
I'm having a bad day because Idon't carry things into other
situations.

Speaker 3 (01:30:14):
And I try not to have bad days and you got to make
sure your mood.
Is not you projecting negative,being pessimistic?
I truly believe.
My parents told me that if yougo in things positive, most
likely it's going to come outpositive.
And just because you may behaving a bad day, because we all
have, ok.

(01:30:35):
But why project that on someoneelse?
Right?
Why, you know?
Because that could be the veryday that you're projecting that.
It could really truly make somedamage of you how you project
it on someone else.

Speaker 4 (01:30:52):
And so we got to have the emotional intelligence to
know the difference, and a lotof people lack that.
We talked about common senseand book sense, but then the
other one is the emotionalintelligence to know the
difference.

Speaker 3 (01:31:02):
Like you don't have to say everything that comes to
your mind, you know youunderstand why he's the CEO of
leadership, because he istelling you, as a leader, that
you don't have to literally telleverything you feel and bring
that on someone and you've gotto pick your battles.

Speaker 4 (01:31:22):
Or tell people what you don't know.
That's another part that youcan get from just understanding.
I grew up in 3127 in Fraser inMemphis, in a rough area, but I
understood politics.
I learned politics a long timeago, in high school.
And how I learned politics inhigh school was because I met

(01:31:45):
the previous police chief, yearsago at least, when I was in
school.
I can't remember his name, butI met him in Memphis.
He asked me what high school Iwent to and I told him he said
we develop our gang task forceoff of your high school.
He said y'all had every gangand you had these neighborhood
cliques inside the school, soyou never knew what was going to
happen and, like I, walkedthrough male detectives every
single day.

Speaker 3 (01:32:05):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:32:09):
Every single day metal detectors at school.
But because I would help peoplewith their homework, no matter
who they were affiliated with,and I would go out of my way to
try to teach concepts.
A lot of guys were like, hey,he's safe, don't bother him.
And I even went back yearslater and one of my guys he's a
barber and he said man, he saidwe always knew you were going to

(01:32:32):
be somebody.
We always knew you weredifferent than us.
I said I grew up in the samearea, but we knew that you had a
higher trajectory than we had.

Speaker 3 (01:32:45):
Because you speak with passion.
I haven't even known you thislong, but you speak with passion
.
I ain't even known you thislong, but you speak with passion
and what you believe and youreally care about Tennessee.

Speaker 4 (01:32:58):
And I also knew this too.
I knew that my parents, theydidn't play.

Speaker 3 (01:33:04):
Well, you had a mother that was a teacher, so I
know she didn't play Right.

Speaker 4 (01:33:06):
and if somebody said, hey, we're going to go do this.
I said, oh no, I'm out Becauseyou knew, I already knew.
So I mean, but like you know, alot of the things, and this is
probably for the next iterationof this whenever we do it?

Speaker 3 (01:33:19):
Yes, but a lot of things happened inside the
household.
It did.

Speaker 4 (01:33:27):
And if you have, I guess my point I'm trying to
make is when you have parentsthat are paying attention to
what you have going on and youcan talk to them, how your race
will leave from outside thathouse and follow you everywhere
you go.

Speaker 3 (01:33:41):
I agree.

Speaker 4 (01:33:42):
Like I knew, it was certain things I wasn't going to
do, and if I did do it I wasgoing to suffer consequences.

Speaker 3 (01:33:47):
And I try not to do it Because your parents was an
example for you, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:33:49):
And I try not to do it Because your parents was an
example for you Exactly, but Itry not to do that with our kids
.
We try to make sure that youknow it's okay to express your
feelings, like we couldn't dothat growing up, no, like so.

Speaker 3 (01:34:01):
But I want to make sure you remember when I was
talking about the opinion thingand I had to you know, me and
David had to talk this over inour marriage is that David was
brought?

Speaker 4 (01:34:15):
up, like me and you, that, whatever they said,
control and command.

Speaker 3 (01:34:17):
Okay, and so I had to get David to understand.
Is you know what?
Yes, we're the parents.
Yes, we make the last call, butit's okay for a kid to have an
opinion if they're speaking in arespectful way.
I don't think it's anythingwrong with a kid saying you know
, hey, mom, can you just thinkabout this?

(01:34:40):
But when we were growing up youcouldn't do that.
You know, whatever they saidwent and it was like okay, but
how am I going to express if younever allow me to express?
So you've got all these youngpeople that are out here.
We want them to express and wewant them to do all these great
things, but if their parentsnever allow them to express, we

(01:35:03):
as mentors we're as leaders haveto be the one to teach them
that their opinion matters,their feelings matter, and they
have to say and they can't speakjust happiness all the time.
You have to be able to speakabout what you're going through
and I think in what you do for aliving and what you do in your

(01:35:26):
community, you're given a voice.
You know you're given a voiceto so many people that the
parents never gave.
So I would say to you is hatsoff to you for that.
Keep going at that.
What would you say?
Tennessee needs more thananything.
We're almost about to wrap thisup.

Speaker 4 (01:35:48):
So, now, these are some the next couple questions
well, I'll say one thing thatI've noticed just from having
these conversations across thestate with top leaders education
permeates everything.
So if you talk about economicdevelopment, education is

(01:36:08):
attached to it, because if youwant to have economic
development, people have to haveplaces to send their kids to
school.

Speaker 3 (01:36:15):
Correct.

Speaker 4 (01:36:15):
I mean we talk about the prison system.
If people aren't reading ongrade level, then they're
illiterate, then that's kind ofa direct pipeline to prison.
So like we can talk about anybad thing or any topic,
education always permeates itand if we get that right, I
think, our state is doing abetter job with education than

(01:36:39):
it was 50 years ago.
So, but, but I think that that'ssomething that we can't take
our eye off the ball.
I also kind of think that Imean because you're asking about
some of the challenges, right,right, I would say just the
amount of people who are movinghere, you know, yeah, I mean,

(01:37:03):
which is a beautiful thing.
I was with.
I heard the governor speakrecently and he made a comment
that I didn't know, but this isapropos of the work that you do.
He said that every hour,tennessee is losing 10 acres of
farmland to development, andthat's a threat to what

(01:37:29):
Tennessee is known for.
we're so like we can't just leteverybody come in here, move and
we build, because then we'regoing to lose one of our most
natural assets.

Speaker 3 (01:37:39):
Tennessee, for one, is about families.
Tennessee is about homeownership okay, but right now
there's been so many differentbig developers or big hedge
funds that come in and buy upproperty and is making it be

(01:38:02):
more rentals than homeownership.
And Tennessee, this is a statethat we teach homeownership For
a first-time homebuyer.
I will tell you, it's kind ofdifficult right now for a
first-time homebuyer because youknow the price points in our

(01:38:24):
communities.
You know people are making moremoney in areas, in some areas
more than they've ever made, butit's the cost of living is
still high.
You know a one-bedroom inKnoxville I don't know about
Nashville, where you live, butone bedroom here is the average
of $2,000 a month.
You know that's a lot.

(01:38:45):
Think about when we started,when we got our apartment.
You know that's a lot.
And tack on it if you havechildren.
You know food is expensive, gasis expensive, just everything.
I think Tennessee as a whole Iwill say this compared to other

(01:39:06):
states, we're still at a lowerprice than other states, but we
still are expensive as well.
So I think that that's thebiggest thing that we need help
with is the homeless and peoplebeing able to have a roof over

(01:39:29):
their head.

Speaker 4 (01:39:31):
Yeah, I think those are certainly some issues that
impacts a lot of people.
I mean, I know the pathway toreaching an American dream often
is tied to being able to haveequity in your home.

Speaker 3 (01:39:45):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:39:46):
And when people if we have a population of too many
people who are renters, they'renot able to ever fully reach
their potential.

Speaker 3 (01:39:54):
And you're seeing more and more renters and that
that's the sad part.
But I just pray that we havemore home ownership in Tennessee
.
Tennessee is a great state andthat's why people are moving
here, but I just I love thefamily part of Tennessee, that
we are the volunteer state.
We love our community and wewant to build up our community.

(01:40:15):
So my next question is what issome of the most exciting or
impactful statewide initiativescurrently under underway through
Leadership Knoxville, if youcan?

Speaker 4 (01:40:29):
answer that question?
Well, so for LeadershipTennessee, we are going to.
Actually, we have a new datefor our signature, one of our
signature events, which is theDolly Parton Excellence in
Leadership Awards this year.
This year, our board member andvery deserving person, janet

(01:40:54):
Ayers, is the honoree.
We had to push the date back torural communities and educate

(01:41:15):
people from rural areas, just assuch such a great organization,
but she's also a great personand a big supporter of
leadership Tennessee, but she'sbeen honored, dolly part.
Just to give you a backgroundon it, dolly Parton was the
inaugural recipient of the DollyParton Excellence Leadership
Award in 2018.
That was a five-yearcelebration and then, once we

(01:41:39):
after that, knoxville's two ofKnoxville's finest Governor,
bill and First Lady ChrissyHaslam, received the award in
2021.
And now Mrs Ayers is going toreceive the award this August.

Speaker 3 (01:41:55):
That's amazing so.

Speaker 4 (01:41:57):
Dolly Parton, recipient of the first award.
She gave the award to theHaslams and this time the
Haslams will give it to MrsAyers.

Speaker 1 (01:42:07):
So I'm not sure if she's going to make it in a 10,
this time.

Speaker 4 (01:42:10):
Dolly was at the last one.
I don't know if she's going tobe at this one, but certainly
hope that she will be there.
But it's going to be a greatevent in Franklin, Tennessee.
We're going to be outside ofNashville in.
Franklin at the FranklinFactory and more information.
August 28th more informationwill be on our website, and it's
not just for Leadership.
Tennessee alums.

(01:42:31):
Either it's for, we'll open itup.
We want to first sell to asmany alums as possible before we
open it up.
But there'll be non-LeadershipTennessee alumni there as well.

Speaker 3 (01:42:41):
I would love to come.
I would love to come, so I hopethey open it up for others to
come outside.

Speaker 4 (01:42:47):
Certainly, I'll let you know.

Speaker 3 (01:42:48):
Yes, most definitely.
So what is the next?
What in the future?
You say the next thing that youwant Leadership Tennessee to be
known as.

Speaker 4 (01:43:02):
Well, the beautiful part of running an organization
like this is LeadershipTennessee.
Although we're new we're foundedin 2013, it has a huge
reputation across the nation andthat goes to my predecessor,
who did an excellent job leadingit for the first several years

(01:43:24):
Before I got here.
I think our team has done agood job of keeping us on that
upper trajectory.
We're regarded as one of thetop statewide community
leadership programs and we'realso a community with others, so
I'm on the board for theAssociation for Leadership
Programs, which is the nationalboard.
Leadership Knoxville is a partof it as well, but we get

(01:43:51):
together with a bunch of othercommunity leadership programs
across the nation and we talkabout what's going on, and
that's really an insightfulconference because you get to
hear from people who leadorganizations similar to
leadership knoxville andleadership tennessee, but all
across the nation, and you getto learn, you get inspired you
get inspired by it and I mean,like some would say, like I
would imagine that people lookat the role that I have and say

(01:44:12):
you know, I bet you get tired ofhearing the same thing.
I'm like well, actually we don'thear the same thing.
I mean, some things you'regoing to get every single time.

Speaker 3 (01:44:21):
Correct.

Speaker 4 (01:44:21):
But I mean I think about, like, when we come here
to Knoxville, big Jim Haslam isjust, oh my God, he, he is one
of the most remarkable peopleI've ever met in my life, and
when he can come and talk to ourmembers about his life and all
the things he's done and and howhow much he loves programs like
ours, he loves leadership.

(01:44:43):
Knoxville that's his baby, buthe really cares about these
programs.

Speaker 3 (01:44:48):
I heard from.

Speaker 4 (01:44:49):
Senator.
Alexander last night said hethinks that these programs are
so important to the overallfabric of our state and the
region.
It helps us think about issuesand not just think about it.
But if things could be solved?
We have the right people in theroom from public, private and

(01:45:10):
non-profit sectors who canactually move the needle in the
direction we want to move itlike.
That's the.
That's the most beautiful partabout running an organization
like this or or even beingassociated with it.
It's like you get all thesesmart people in the room who
care about the state and say wewant to do some things.
I imagine we'll probably host agubernatorial debate.

(01:45:31):
We've done that before in thepast.
We partnered with theTennessean and, I guess, usa
Today to do those and we'recertainly going because we're
not about.
You're probably thinking, well,that's political.
No, it's not political.
These are people who arerunning and we want to make sure
our membership and those acrossthe state who we're associated

(01:45:52):
with have the opportunity tohear from the person who's going
to be the next governor.
Yes.
And to see it because it'simportant and that's really up
my alley anyway, because I lovethe political side of it.

Speaker 3 (01:46:03):
I was going to say your political background, but
those are things that I thinkthat we do very well.

Speaker 4 (01:46:08):
I think to be critical of leadership tendency
and I can't be too critical ofit, but I'll just say I wish we
had a little more ruralrepresentation.
Like I know, we get to go tosome rural areas and we're
working on that.
We're going through ourstrategic plan we already had it
and we're trying to fulfillwhat's in there for our metrics.

(01:46:30):
But I really want us to look atthe state seal.
You know what two words onthere that you know, I don't
want to put you on the spot.
The state seal of Tennessee.
I'll call you in rather thancall you out.
But it says agriculture andcommerce.
Those are the two things thatare on there.
Yes, so if we're not focused onthe things that make us such a

(01:46:56):
great state, particularly theagriculture piece and the people
in the rural areas tend to do alittle more farming than the
urban areas Right, Right.
So those are things we can geta little stronger in, and we're
trying our hardest to make surethat we have a more diverse
population of our membership.
And I'm not saying diverse in away that that's probably a bad

(01:47:19):
way to say now diverse in termsof you know location, you know
diverse in industry.

Speaker 3 (01:47:27):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:47:27):
Because we can't have 30 teachers.

Speaker 3 (01:47:30):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:47:31):
You know going through a program and we're
going to talk about everythingthat's going on.
It's probably a good thing forteachers to have their own
leadership program or somethingthey can do, but this was
designed to bring differentpeople who would never get
together.

Speaker 3 (01:47:44):
The ball walks a lot Into a room.

Speaker 4 (01:47:46):
Yes, so they can talk about issues, because we make
assumptions.
And, and I'll never forget, myfirst meet with big jim has him.
He said, alfred, you have oneof the most important jobs in
the state and and I was like Ididn't expect that.
But what he said was today welive in a society where people
retreat to their corners.
They point and say I don't likeyvonca, but I don't know her

(01:48:06):
either, but I don't like her.

Speaker 3 (01:48:07):
Yes, and I it's something say I don't like.

Speaker 4 (01:48:08):
Ivanka, but I don't know her either, but I don't
like her and it's somethingabout her I don't like.
But we're going to bring youtogether.
Put you at a table and thenfocus on some issues.
That improves our state.
That's beauty.

Speaker 3 (01:48:23):
And get to know people who they are, instead of
judging them across the roomwhen you really don't know them,
don't know anything about them.
You know, I think that's thebiggest thing like what
leadership and also me goingthrough the program is.
They put 61 people in a roomand you know, you would think I

(01:48:46):
would have known quite a bit ofthe people in my class before.
I only knew three people inthat class when I started and it
was a good thing I'll neverforget.

Speaker 4 (01:48:55):
But you probably sold them all their houses, though
you just didn't know them.
You know, yeah, there you go,there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:49:01):
Yes, but I'm like I said to Tammy I'll never forget
the first day she said to me.
She was like you probably knowthat a lot of these people are
here.
I was like Tammy, no, I don't,and she goes.
She was like is that a badthing?
I was like, no, it's a goodthing.
I said because I want to meetnew people and I want to be a
great leader and you've got toget in a room with people that

(01:49:25):
has done more than you've donein your life and listen.
You know, and when you'retalking about Jim Haslam, he, he
spoke, our very first classOkay, him and his wife, both
were there and both of them, youknow, shared.
And what my takeaway from himwas this man is 95 years old and

(01:49:47):
he is still.
This man is 95 years old and heis still wanting to be a leader
and wanting to make adifference.
How can I ever stop being aleader when someone that has
done as much as this man hasdone?
He could say I want to retireand I just want to.
You know, just be me for amoment.
No, not Jim Haslam, because hestood there.

(01:50:10):
I mean, he spoke there and saidyou know what Keep doing, keep
working, keep trying to makeyour community better.
And so I took away that, like Igot more to do, I've got more
to do.
If a 95 year old person issaying they're still working,
who am I to say?

(01:50:30):
Not to work?
So I want to thank you forcoming thank you for having me,
and sitting down have aconversation.
The door is open.
Uh, always to you, you know.
I would love to bring you backon one of our panel discussions
because I think that you have alot to offer and I think people
want to hear you know.
What is Alfred doing now, sothank you for coming.

Speaker 4 (01:50:51):
Thank you, thank you so much, and this has been great
to be here and to just reallythink about some things that we
do, and I just want to expressmy gratitude for you inviting me
here today.
Thank, you.

Speaker 3 (01:51:06):
Thank you most definitely and, like said, the
door is always open.
Tune in every Friday to Talk inTennessee.
Bye guys.

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