August 29, 2025 • 50 mins
What happens when a man who once hit rock bottom finds himself in charge of one of Tennessee's worst natural disasters? John Matthews' journey from addiction to leadership reveals the extraordinary power of second chances.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Check us out to hear the latest on life in the
volunteer state.
Yvonca and her guests discusseverything from life, love and
business with a Tennessee flair.
It's a Tennessee thing, alwaysrelatable, always relevant and
always a good time.
This is Talkin' Tennessee, andnow your host, yvonca.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This episode is brought to you by the Landis
team, your go-to real estatefamily in East Tennessee.
If you are looking to buy orsell, we are the ones you should
call.
Give us a call at 865-660-1186or check out our website at
YvoncaSellsRealEstatecom.
That's YonneCa Y-V-O-N-N-C-ASalesRealEstatecom.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Welcome back to Talking Tennessee with Yvonne.
I'm your host and I am back forpart two of John Matthews'
segment with Talking Tennessee.
Welcome back.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Yeah, thanks for having me come back.
This is great.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I love it and I wanted to do this in two parts
because his story is socompelling and it is a must
listen and receive typeinterview because you went
through a lot in your life andyou still keep a smile and you
still want to give back.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yeah, maybe that's what keeps me smiling.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Look, give back.
Yeah, maybe that's what keepsme smiling Look, giving back.
He wrote a book and it's calledWisdom at a Cost, and when I
tell you that it's a book thatwe all can relate to, there's
portions of the book that we canall gravitate to and say I know
I've been there to, and say Iknow I've been there, and this
(01:50):
part is going to be all abouthow he came out of the dust, how
he dusted himself off, and hesaid you know what?
I want something out of my life.
And in 2016, you were in a rolethat will go down in history of
wildfires that truly affectedEast Tennessee.
(02:11):
Let's talk about Gatlinburgwildfires, yeah 2016.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
What a day.
You know it's cliche to saythat that day started out just
like every other day, but it did.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Take us back.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
How did it all unravel that day?
Well, uh, I don't know.
Uh, do you remember where youwere at on that that monday
morning?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I was on the interstate, okay, and the radio
was on, and I don't rememberwhich radio smoke in the area,
though, yeah a lot of smoke inthe area and it it was like what
is going on, Because I didn'tthink that big when I saw the
smoke.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I think, yeah, for me personally same.
But also, if you remember thatwhole entire month smoke was in
the area, you know there werefires that were burning down in
Chattanooga.
The whole state of Tennesseehad wildfires that were popping
up.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
You're bringing back my memory.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yes, we were in a drought and so when waking up
that morning in November it was,it was a little bit more smoky.
We had ash that actually wasphysically visible on some cars,
that kind of looked like snowand it had a little bit of a
(03:31):
different tone to it, if youwill.
But you know, at the end of theday everybody got up.
People that were on vacationeither were heading home,
because it was the weekend afterThanksgiving, or parents were
taking their kids to school, youknow, maybe they were doing
Cyber Monday shopping.
I mean, it was the weekendafter Thanksgiving, or parents
were taking their kids to school, you know, maybe they were
doing Cyber Monday shopping.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I mean, it was just another typical Monday after
Thanksgiving.
Let's go back a little bit.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
What was your role At the time?
I was the emergency managementdirector and, for people that
understand what that is, thinkof FEMA, the Federal.
Emergency Management Agency.
This is more of a local branch,if you will, of that.
So in the state of Tennesseethere's 95 counties, and each
(04:18):
county is required to have anemergency management director,
and if they don't appoint one,the mayor, oddly enough, assumes
that role.
That's how the statute iswritten.
And so we have a distinctorganization called TEMA, which
is the Tennessee EmergencyManagement Agency, and of course
each county has one.
Knoxville has the Knox CountyEmergency Management Agency.
(04:39):
Colin Ickes is the director,great friend of mine, and I was
at the time the director of theSevier County Emergency
Management Agency.
I was 35 years old.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
At 35 years old yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
And I think you know we left last week talking about
you know where I was at andclimbing the ladder, so to speak
.
But you know, at 21, I was anIV drug user at rock bottom,
rotten teeth in and out of jailand at 35, I was the EMA
director of Sevier County.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
So tell the people what made you go down the road
to being in that position beforewe talk about that.
Yeah, sure it was more of awindy road.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
You know, when I first got clean and went back to
school, fell in love withbiology, essentially, and I
phone book.
You know, back for Google orchat GPT, we actually had to
(05:48):
physically look up phone numbersand pulled out the phone book.
You know, a lot of people alsomay not know this, but frankly,
70% of all fire departments inthe nation are volunteer.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
There's only about 30% that are paid and so I know
it was a lot of volunteers.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
I didn't know it was that big and so essentially, you
know, Sevier County is nodifferent and there was three
departments that was an actualcareer driven type of
opportunity and that was theGallenberg Fire Department,
Pigeon Forge and Sevierville.
So I called all three of them,got the phone book out.
Somebody answered the phone,gave them a elevator pitch,
saying, hey, you know, want toget in the business, Don't know
anything, you know what do yourecommend?
How do I get in?
(06:32):
And basically they all said thesame thing Become an EMT, try
to volunteer at a firedepartment to get to get some
experience and get to know thepeople.
Because it's it is a tight knitcommunity emergency.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
And so I did that.
I actually, oddly enough, wentto.
I was bartending in Gallenberg,and so on my way to work one
night I stopped at the firedepartment, put an application
in to become a volunteer at theGallenberg fire department.
You know they never called me.
They never called me to be avolunteer but fire department.
(07:09):
You know, they never called methey never called me to be a
volunteer, but I eventually gota job there later on.
But, uh, and then the otherthing is I would roll on their
face, yeah, um.
But then I didn't enroll incollege and I um went to become
an EMT and there was someprereqs and some things that
that looks like.
But eventually um had to, uh,you know, send in letters to the
state of Tennessee because Iwas incarcerated and I was on
drugs and all these things thatum, I had to plead my case of
(07:30):
why I should get a license inthe state of Tennessee to
practice medicine and frankly begiven some of these drugs that
um, um, you know the patientsinside the ambulance are going
to take the ones that I wasaddicted to.
Um, and there was people, familyincluded, told me my whole life
that you know this portion ofmy life.
I should say that you're noone's ever going to hire you.
(07:51):
You know you won't.
You won't get this job becauseyou were and you went to jail
seven different times.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
And so you know what I didn't do.
I didn't listen to one effort.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
And a lot of times there's so many naysayers.
A lot of times that you know, Ithink people are small minded,
okay, and I think a lot of timespeople are um, want to keep you
in a box, because they're in abox, you know, just because you
made a mistake does not meanthat is your life and you're
(08:27):
supposed to stay there.
Of what I hear is coming out ofyour mouth, is I found
something that I like.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And I wanted to do something in service.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I wanted to serve.
You started servicing people inbartending but then you said,
ok, I want to service savinglives, you know, and doing for
my community.
That's the biggest thing that Ilook at as a fireman Firemen's,
truly.
I'm friends with a lot offiremen.
Okay, they walk away from theirfamilies.
(09:01):
They save a lot of families.
They go into houses, buildings,all that to basically put back
whatever it is, you know, and alot of firemen don't come out
and I think a lot of peopledon't realize that and you have
to really have a heart forpeople to be a fireman.
(09:21):
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
No, I totally agree.
You know when somebody calls911, they're at a fireman.
Do you agree with that?
No, I totally agree.
You know when somebody calls9-1-1, they're at a tough moment
.
You know they do not have anymore answers.
It's a true emergency they havetried everything they know to do
and they are without an answer.
And so, thankfully, we have youknow this this, this
(09:44):
organization that is willing tocome to you and help you.
And so all you got to do iscall 9-1-1.
And whether it's an ambulancethat's going to come, a fire
department or the policedepartment to come help you
through whatever situation youmay be in, it doesn't have to be
a, you know, a domestic assaultor your house is burning down.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
It could be a gamut of different things, but you
know their job is to show up onyour worst day, you know that's
pretty crazy and help you pickup the pieces, but you know what
that's like, because you had todust yourself off and you had
to make sure that, ok, I wentdown this road, I need to go
down a different road and I wantto make something of my life,
(10:26):
and I think that when 2016 came,you could relate to a lot of
things that you are seeing,because you had trauma, you had
experiences of loss.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
And so let me back up just a second there.
You know when I went and gothired on at the Gothenburg Fire
Department.
You know, fire department, Ihad to fix my criminal record.
I told you before I had topetition the state of why I
should be a licensed emergencymedical technician in the state
of Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
And I bet you that wasn't easy.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Wasn't easy.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Did you have a lot of no's?
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I had a lot of or was it more process.
It was more of a process and alot of no's.
I had a lot of or was it moreprocess?
It was more of a process, and alot of people that weren't
really involved in the processtell me I wasn't going to make
it, you know.
So basically, people thatdidn't know whether it wasn't up
to them.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
But you seem like you're strong-willed though.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Yeah, I learned real quick not to listen to the
naysayers.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yes, because a lot of times people want to say
they're positive.
There's a lot of negativepeople and they pour out that.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
They're close to you.
Usually it's friends and family.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It is, it really is, and I hate to say that, but it's
just true.
And a lot of times, your family, you know the people that you
really want to believe in you alot of them don't.
I hate to say this, but this istrue is a lot of strangers have
more belief in you than yourown friends and family.
(12:16):
Do you agree?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
with that, absolutely .
Yeah, they're in your corner.
It's crazy.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
And you have to keep going and just truly believe
that there is purpose for you.
In 2016, when the wildfires hit, um, what was your first
thought?
Speaker 4 (12:36):
That.
That's a deep question.
That's a good question.
You know, essentially that dayour office was deployed early on
.
You know, and we essentiallywhat emergency management does?
They work with the localdepartments, whether it's the
fire department, whether it's anambulance service, whether it's
Homeland Security or the policedepartment, and we're basically
(12:59):
there to assist them intomaking better decisions and
navigating through thisemergency, whatever that may be.
You know you're not going tocall 911 and the emergency
management agency show up atyour house to help you
personally.
And now, if the emergencyservice personnel get there and
it's something that they're notfamiliar with or they can't
(13:21):
solve, they call us.
We're like a 911 for 911.
Right, Okay, and so we come inand that particular day they
being the national park calledthe Gallenberg fire department,
it was like, hey, you know we'vegot this fire.
It's been burning since the daybefore Thanksgiving.
You know we've attemptedseveral times to extinguish it
(13:42):
and put in.
You know fire breaks and allthese things.
But, however, it's now close tosome historic buildings near
Gallenberg, near the city limitsof Gallenberg.
Would you be willing to go overthere and at least bring an
engine and some fire personnelto protect these old cabins?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
You know, back when they were trying to assess the
situation.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Not even at this point, we're not even assessing.
It was literally just to go tothis particular spot that had
some old cabins.
If you've been, like this isnot in Cades Cove, I don't want
to confuse the viewers, but ifyou've ever been to Cades Cove
and you've seen these old cabins, right, I mean, that's
essentially what they're goingto.
You know, protect and.
But at the time, which was, youknow, probably early afternoon,
(14:31):
late morning, this is what wefound out.
So they go up there, they callus in, us being the emergency
management agency, to comeassist, and some of our staff
personnel went up there andworked with the fire department
to do just the early things inan incident, if you will.
Well, one of the things is, youknow, looking at, what's the
(14:54):
first residential community nearthis fire?
Now, this fire is miles andmiles away from the first
community, which is Minot Park.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And so the Gallenberg .
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Police Department Minot Park.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
It's in.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Gallenberg and it's going.
Have you ever been to the ParkVista in Gallenberg?
Yes, so it's sort of there.
On your right-hand side as yougo up towards Park Vista,
there's a small park andcommunity right there, and so
the police department,gallenburg Police Department and
the fire department set up anevacuation to those residents.
(15:26):
They didn't have to leave, itwasn't a requirement.
Again, you know this is broaddaylight.
Yeah, it's.
These are usually residents.
They've seen wildfires theirwhole life, you know.
But they opened up a shelterjust in case at the Gatlinburg
Community Center and then, asthe fire progressed and more
people found out about it youknow, the smoke is really heavy
(15:47):
in the area so they opened upthe command post at the
Gatlinburg Fire Department.
News stations are there, newstations are there.
They brought in this fire modelthat essentially you could put
in the wind speed, thebarometric pressure, the Doppler
(16:08):
radar, all these things, andthen the topographical map of
the terrain where the fire is atin this model will actually
show you the the development andthe growth of this particular
wildfire and how fast it's goingto spread.
And from that model it wasshowing that it wasn't going to
reach the city limits ofGallenberg for, you know, half a
day, 16, 17, 18 hours, and rainwas coming through the forecast
(16:29):
to be here in just a few hours,like around nine, 10 o'clock
that night, which is not whathappened.
You know, the rain didn'tactually come until mid morning,
two o'clock in the morning andum, from around the six, 30, uh
to to 10 o'clock hour.
Um, you know this, these uhwinds picked up to be hurricane
(16:50):
force winds.
I think the last reading, uh,the there was a weather station
that was monitoring wind speedsand before it was damaged, the
last reading had 87 mile an hourwinds, which you know is
essentially hurricane forcewinds.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
So that day you went up to do you know what you could
to save those cabins.
You know what you could to savethose cabins.
What was it like just trying tocontribute to others and
talking to others in thecommunity and explaining to them
.
You know what is transpiring,what.
(17:30):
What can you tell me?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
so, um, you know, right now, you guys, the it's
still a Gatlinburg FireDepartment problem issue.
You know they're they're thejurisdiction in charge.
This is still early on, and sothey have their own protocols,
(17:54):
their own standard operatingprocedures that they do things
for certain incidents, and sothey have their own metrics of
how this looks in a wildfire, ina flood, and you know all these
things.
And so they're going throughtheir protocol and notifying,
and for them that particular daywas going door to door, just
because it's a small community,right and then at the same time,
(18:14):
doing press conferences andexplaining what's going on, you
know, at the command post, butessentially the fire chief, greg
Miller, at the time and youknow was the last press
conference that he did wastalking about this fire model
that we just got done, talkingabout and what it was looking
like and you know where the whowe've already evacuated versus
(18:39):
where the shelters at, and justgiven the public information of
what's going on with theinformation we had at the time,
which is just basically standardoperating.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I bet you doing a press conference was probably
really stressful because peoplewanted answers.
You know that type thing.
But I can't imagine, you know,emotionally, as a man, you know
in that position, what was youremotions, what did you feel as
just what was going on?
(19:10):
You knew you had to speak, youhad to give some answers, but
emotionally, seeing people, youknow, panicking, people scared,
what was that like?
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I'm glad you asked.
So, essentially, this is Mondayand the first 12 hours of any
incident is what we call theresponse phase.
So we have 12 hours and this iswhere the responders come out
and they are doing what they canto mitigate whatever emergency
there is.
And then the second 12 hours isthe first operational period,
(19:44):
if you will.
And so what you do on every 12hours is a new operational
period and you set objectivesand goals to accomplish in this
12 hours.
You know, and every there'susually staff change and there's
a there's a transfer of ofcommand to, to people that are
going to be changing out roles.
You know, we've we had over4,000 apparatus to come to the
(20:11):
Gatlinburg area to help fightthis fire.
I mean, you think about how biga fire truck is.
Imagine we're going to put4,000 of them.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, and a lot of people.
I will say it did bring a lotof people together that really
wanted to help people becausepeople lost so much.
You know that type thing.
But I just can't imagine beingin that position that you can't
just change it.
It's not something that justchanges like that.
(20:38):
I don't want to give away thebook, but I do want to say in
part of the book I read that youwere saying that you went in
the bathroom and you know,trying to gather yourself
together and put water on yourface to prepare, you know, to go
out and speak and speak aboutthings that may not be pleasing
(20:59):
to people, but it was justreality.
The human aspect, yes, what wasthat like?
Speaker 4 (21:04):
So that particular part was later on the week.
You know we closed the city ofGallenberg down for about six
days and you know we had so manymissing people who turned
eventually hundreds of people onthis missing list and trying to
find them and locate familymembers because that was the
biggest thing is people, withthe city being shut down they
(21:26):
could, they didn't even know iftheir own house was burnt.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Exactly, business was burned.
And so I do remember that itwas.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
It was our job to one find these missing people and
somehow, you know, provide thisinformation to the public, which
what we did is we actually wentto each individual house on
foot.
I mean, there was still no cellphone towers, that meant no GPS
.
We had to print old maps andbring people that have never
been to Gatlinburg that has noroad signs, no trees, no houses,
(21:55):
no buildings, only driveways,and you would have to go to a
house that was still standing,look at the house number and say
, okay, I'm at 2021, songbirdRoad.
This next house must be 2022,.
Even though it's not there, Ican see a driveway and you start
counting the driveways.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I mean, that's how they had to map 2,500 different
buildings and I want you all tounderstand that there are a lot
of people that own cabins thatare not living in East Tennessee
.
So they're getting calls frompeople that are saying tell me
if my house is still there.
So that, right there, thestress of all of that, you know,
was on his head.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
It was trying not been to bed.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
I've never even went home.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Yeah, imagine that you know and it's out of your
control.
You're trying to control asituation that was out of
control and then you're tryingto take all these calls and put
yourself in that position.
You know to take all thesecalls and put yourself in that
position.
You know what would it be like?
I mean because when you'vegiven so much to your community
(23:03):
and you're dedicating service,and worked so hard to be in that
room.
Yeah, to be in that room andchange your life to be in that
room.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Or you probably worked harder than anybody in
that room to be in that room.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Exactly, but you still could not make it go away.
And this was with their reality, because I know there was many
people that you had to tell yourhouse is gone yeah what was
that?
Speaker 4 (23:26):
like well, I uh in, um and I want to get back to the
bathroom thing because that'ssuch a good uh, good yes visual
for anybody who wants to he cangive that part away.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I just didn't want to .
Speaker 4 (23:38):
I didn't want to speak for you on that part, but
that when I was reading that Iwas just like it kind of got me
like oh, go ahead but, uh, thismap that we went live with after
we mapped out all these houses,which would allow somebody to
go to a website and see theycould type in their address and
they could see if their housewas lost or still there.
(23:58):
But and so we we put it on this, this, this company called Esri
and put it on their servers,which is a worldwide company.
It's a huge company.
This is our crazy, but I thinkit went live December 6th.
Okay, so there's only about 31days in December, so maybe it
was live 19 days in the year2016.
(24:19):
It was the most used map in theentire world for their company
and in the 19 days it was live.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
It's crashed all their servers.
So many people clicked on itthat it crashed their servers.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah, so just think about that.
People are having to go on thissite to see if their house is
still if their house is stillstanding.
There was many families thatdidn't know if their family
member that lived.
You know, a couple of milesaway or whatever.
I can't get a hold of themtheir phone's not ringing, are
(24:51):
they missing?
Speaker 4 (24:52):
And they would go on a list, this missing persons
list.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
And that's true Anxiety, and that's true anxiety
, and you're wanting to knowthat your family member is safe.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
And it's still at the same time we're developing new
goals and objectives to do thenext operational period,
commanding the scene for theoperational period we're in and
having press conferences twice aday to notify the public.
I mean, this is all going onwith no sleep.
We know what he ever left.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
We didn.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
This is all going on with no, sleep With nobody ever
left we didn't brush our teethfor the first three days.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I can't even imagine being in that position.
Yeah, it's crazy, so take us tothe bathroom.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yeah, so this particular incident is, like I
said, latter part of the week.
You know, they in the beginning, naturally, just with any other
disaster, people in thebeginning were just shocked, you
know just like.
I can't believe this happened.
We love Gatlinburg.
We vacationed there our entirelives.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I used to own a cabin up there.
I sold mine, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
I mean, memories are there.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Great memories.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
It sort of took a switch of like well, what went
wrong, how did we get here?
And when I say this switch, itreally wasn't who's to blame per
se, but there was this paradigmshift, slowly going, but some
people wanted to blame somebody.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
To blame somebody, yeah, and it's like well, how
did we get here?
Speaker 4 (26:11):
What went wrong?
What could we have done better?
And you know, the fact of thematter is that anything you look
back on, when you have moreinformation you know,
hindsight's 2020, you know.
So everybody's now got moreinformation and then they just
want to start armchairquarterbacking this event,
(26:32):
versus being in the moment andunderstanding what the
information we had at the timeand how we decided to do things,
things.
But now I'm I'm, you know, uhgoing back on the podium and
answering questions uh for textalerts, emergency alerts, and
everybody's got a questioneverybody's got a question.
Want to know why they didn't goout, why they didn't send it.
Um and uh who started?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
who started it?
Speaker 4 (26:53):
how the boys, you know these two boys who started,
I mean just just so many things.
And you know, like I said, I'mnot going to sleep.
How fast, I don't know exactly,but what?
(27:20):
What happened was the nationalpark put out a, you know, a
request for information,essentially to the public and
saying, hey, were you hikingthis, the chimneys top trailhead
, on this particular day, whichwas the day before Thanksgiving?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
And did you see anything?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
essentially Right.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Because we know the fire started up there and it's a
popular hiking trail, sosomebody had to see something.
Well, somebody came up and saidyou know what?
I actually hiked it that dayand I was wearing a GoPro and it
was recording all entire timeand I I know exactly who did it.
So, um, that's how those boyswere caught and arrested and all
(27:57):
those things.
But you know, before I went outon that day, you know I went
into this bathroom stall andViewers.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Listen to this one.
You're going to want this book.
Read this book, because thisyeah Game changer.
Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
And thought to myself what some of the viewers
probably had thought at somepoint in time in their life and
I thought how in the F did?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I get here.
How did you get here?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
How did I get here?
I'm about to go speak to thenews media from all over the US
and answer some tough questions.
Answer some tough questions andand honestly, you know knowing
how hard I work to get to thisvery point in my life and and
(28:45):
this is what you find this iswhat I'm facing.
It's like I worked I clawed myway out of rock bottom.
Clawed my way out of rock bottom, yes, and this is what people
are going to remember me as youknow, and they and they don't
even, they don't even know meand the worst part about it and
being judged by so many peoplethat don't know don't know the
(29:05):
situation, assume this, and evenwhen we went out and told them
the exact truth, they don'tbelieve you.
We're in this, this world,where somebody can get on media
and actually say the truth, andthey don't want to believe you.
No, they just want to believebecause a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
I hate to say this.
A lot of people want to uhbelieve.
They don't want to believe good.
Yeah, they want to believe bad,because bad keeps the story
going.
Yeah, you see what I'm sayingbelieving something that is good
and somebody is really tryingtheir best to work through some
things for the greater good.
(29:40):
A lot of this world do not wantto hear that, and so you have
to sit and think about am I thatperson that I wanted to hear
negative?
So go ahead about the bathroom.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Yeah, so I remember.
You know, like it was yesterday, just leaving the stall, I
splashed some water on my faceand, as I'm walking up to this
podium and dreading every singlemoment of it, I was I was
thinking that they are going tofind out that I've been in jail,
I was incarcerated, I was ondrugs and they were going to go
(30:13):
after my character, something Iworked so hard to make an impact
and change for the better, andI've helped thousands of people.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
But people are going to the podium and all the hands
went up to ask the question andyou picked the first person that
(30:47):
you saw raise their hand orwhatever, and all I could think
about when I was reading that is, I know me.
I would think, okay, I'mpicking this, what are they
going to ask?
Speaker 4 (30:59):
me.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Is it going to be favorable or is it?
Are they going to drill me forevery single thing?
And so did that happen.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
You know it's.
It did happen in a certainsense, but not like hey, uh
heard you were an IV drug user,homeless and all methadone.
What.
What gives you the right to beon this?
You know, in this, in thiscommand post, and how did
anybody allow you to do this?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
But it was more Did your insecurities, once those
things came out, did yourinsecurities of, oh my gosh,
that?
Speaker 4 (31:34):
you or did Imposter syndrome a thousand percent and
my insecurities were there.
Yeah, I thought it was like I'man imposter, like I can't
believe Do y'all hear that.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, absolutely, this is a grown man that's
saying I overcame all thesedifferent things, but now I'm on
the biggest stage of my lifeand now all fingers are pointing
at me and they're talking abouteverything that I I've been
through and I've overcame, butthey're they're using it to
(32:03):
weaponize me to, to, to bring medown because of their stress,
of what they think it should beor what I should have done.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
And there was another reporter that that same time
period.
She tried to compare the theGallenberg wildfires to a to a
fire that happened in Asheville,north Carolina.
And basically said that the, the, the people in charge of that
event in Asheville, NorthCarolina not Nashville but
Asheville, North Carolina, mycountry accent kind of confuses
(32:36):
people but was evacuated to townahead of time.
There were some damage lost butno lives were lost.
And essentially, why didn't youdo that here?
And the fact of the matter isthere are two totally different
fires.
One was a slow moving fire,slow burning fire that happened
over a week period of time.
This one, you know, was burninga half an acre a second.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Half an acre, a second.
I did not know that.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Yeah, it was.
They had a study come in and athird party you know, assessed
the entire incident and came outwith a report which is
published.
Anybody can read it, but thisafter action report.
In there they state that out ofthe 17,000 acres they burned
and the 2,500 structures burnedat a half an acre a second.
That's how fast I mean it wasmelting cars.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
But you even think about, like the big wildfires in
LA.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
OK.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
They were trying to compare Asheville to.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Gatlinburg, I mean thoseatlinburg, I mean those are
.
That's like us trying tocompare ours to LA.
Those are two different typesituations.
Yes, there's something similar,that everybody lost something.
You know what I'm saying.
But you can't compare that andyou can't point fingers at the
(33:56):
person in position becauseyou're so angry.
I do understand anger and I dounderstand being scared, but at
the same time, it doesn't meansomebody's at fault for it.
Yeah, Exactly you know what I'msaying and at that time we
didn't know the boys and allthat type thing.
But it was like more coming atyou, like you did it when you
(34:18):
know you really didn't.
Yeah, you were just brought into try to stop the loss and help
people rebuild and help peoplefind their family members and
that type thing.
So what your insecurities inthat is?
Speaker 4 (34:34):
but here's this thing too on that ashville, the fire
departments in in Asheville, theassociation, the fire chief
association, wrote us a letterand said that hey, we're sorry
for the events that occurred onthe news.
We don't support the what thatnews reporter said and in fact
these fires are totallydifferent and we're we really
try to compare it to it.
(34:54):
Yeah, that's how.
Nobody knows that.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Oh, that's an exclusive.
Somebody wrote that.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
I mean they wrote to you to tell you an apology for,
on the behalf of Nashville, youknow, or the North Carolina Fire
Chiefs Association.
I got an emergency service tohelp people.
And you know, I want to say,and I think I can say with
confidence, the super majorityof all people in emergency
services want to help.
I mean, that's what they'rethere.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
They love the service they want to serve.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Yeah, and now there is a community.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
There is a small portion of them.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Bad apples will put a negative light or connotation
on.
You know the company or theservice that they're providing,
but the super majority of themwant to help.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Want to help and want to make a difference.
You know, make it a differencein your community.
I truly believe evangelism thatwhat God was talking about in
the Bible a true evangelism isin the streets, it's in your
community.
It's helping it to make it abetter place and it starts with
you.
It starts with, okay, you sin,there's a need and you try your
(36:07):
best to fulfill that need.
So tell me this what does thetitle of wisdom at a cost mean?
What does it mean?
Title of wisdom at a cost me?
Speaker 4 (36:21):
what does it mean, yeah, uh, and what made you so
much and what made you want towrite this book, the?
The short answer on why Iwanted to write it was to to to
one share the story of um, in myopinion an incredible comeback
story, to give you know somebodythat's either in those same
shoes, the confidence, themotivation, the strength to stay
(36:46):
the course, and also forsomebody that is I love that.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Stay the course yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Yeah, and or also some that's a loved one that's
witnessing somebody that's goingthrough some of those things,
and allow them to understandwhat's Stay the course sense.
All you need to do is quitRight and and that's but you're.
You're here saying, stay thecourse.
(37:18):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Stay thecourse.
And and so the wisdom thatcomes from all those demons that
I battled in drug addiction andbeing homeless and IV drug user
and and and trying to deal withall the shame that came with it
to be a confident man later onin life that went from 21 years
old IV drug user to being 35.
(37:40):
After the wildfires I waspromoted to assistant mayor over
all emergency services Do y'allhear that I went from 21.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Who would have thought a drug addict would be?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
On the method of clinic In Knoxville.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yes, Down there at the DRD with everybody else
every single morning getting my90 room and he's telling you he
hit rock bottom and then nowyou're being put in positions to
make decisions for mankind.
Yeah, I mean, who would havethought that you know so?
And you wrote this book to tell.
(38:15):
It's kind of like it's kind oflike the blueprint.
Yeah, it's kind of like writinga blueprint and saying, hey,
this was it, and don't give up,stay the course and trust the
process.
Yeah, and so what do you wantthis book to be known as?
Yeah, tell me that.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
Well, I'm going to actually steal that.
I like the blueprint.
I think it's a great way, youknow, really, I think for those
that had a loved one that wasaddicted or went through PTSD or
any of these these childhoodtraumas, you know, it's for you
to better understand what'sgoing on in somebody's mind,
because I try to bring thereader into those moments I was
(38:56):
in, when I was in those momentsand I, um, I had help with a
woman named Meg Davis who is aghost writer and is does very
talented and she's the one thathelps me build this character
development and and share thisstory, this with these, these
details that you'll read, andthen also for those addicts that
(39:16):
are going through it.
You know that, um, uh, thatthey can see this blueprint, but
the so, yes, I want everybodyto read it.
Uh, of course, right, thosecliches that sounds.
But, um, you know for, and ifyou do give it a chance and you
do read it and you do enjoy itand you think it could benefit
somebody else, please share it.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
That's the biggest thing is just pay it forward and
see how many lives we canimpact and change.
And if you see somebody that isgoing through that and you
don't have the words, this bookis a great book that you could
buy for that person and say, youknow, I don't have all the
answers, but this person wentthrough this.
Once you read this book, youknow and see if you can relate
(40:02):
to it, if it will help you, ifit will give you strength to get
through.
I think that's the biggestthing and because a lot of times
, if you're not in that,whatever situation it is, you
don't have the right words.
This book to me, is theblueprint of saying you know
what, even when people countedme out, even when people thought
(40:26):
that I was going to be theworst of worse, god brought me
through and he made me getthrough and I'm still going.
What is your mission of stay inthe course Institute?
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Yeah, tell me that, uh, what I've been working on
now and quit my job, uh, and anddiving all my time, and energy
and money into um, is this thingcalled Stay the Course
Institute.
And essentially it's going tobe a course that people can
develop these life skills.
(41:02):
So you take somebody that's 28years old is the example I
always give that's beenincarcerated or on drugs, and
you take a 28-year-old that'slived this, lived this quote,
unquote normal life.
Their life skills are not thesame.
You know the this normal 20 yearold they're going to, they've
(41:23):
opened up a bank account.
They've maybe got a car loan ora home loan, or they went to
college and know how to fill outa FAFSA report or get a college
loan.
You know the one that's been injail, incarcerated and on drugs
they're, they have skills.
There's, there's, not the sameit's not the same and there's so
much shame of like.
You know, I'm 28 years old, Ishould know how to do this, but
(41:45):
I don't even want to say, like,how do you open a bank account,
you know, and it's.
They already feel, uh, shamefulfor all the bad decisions.
You know.
I just want to give them aplace that they can learn these
things at the comfort of theirown home.
It'll all be online.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
And a lot of people don't understand.
Like, let's go back to yourchildhood.
You know your dad was alcoholic.
There was a lot of you knowyoung, when you were young,
things that you needed to learn.
But when you have an alcoholicfor a father, there's a lot of
things that he was not teachingyou or showing you, and bank
(42:20):
account is one of them.
There are so many people thatdo not know how to open a bank
account and do not see a valueof having a bank account.
Or a savings account or anythinglike that, any of that, even
with credit how to pay yourbills, that type thing.
I think a lot of us take thatfor granted, that everybody
should know what that is.
But if you're not taught how topay the utility bill, if you're
(42:44):
not taught, it's why I trulybelieve I don't care what a
family's decision is, if a womanworks or not works.
I think that you should knowyour family's finances.
Yeah, okay, and how to pay,because if someone passes away
or gets sick, that type thingyou know if you've never paid a
(43:07):
mortgage, if you've never paid autility bill or a phone bill,
that type thing, because thatwas always taking care of you,
not just someone that'sincarcerated.
There's a lot of people that'snever been to jail, that has no
clue how to pay a bill becauseI'm in real estate guys, y'all
know this and there's been womenand men that have been left by
(43:30):
their spouses and that spousetook care of all of those things
and now they don't know how todo it and a lot of them are
embarrassed to say I didn't askany questions.
So I feel like your institutewill help a lot of people.
You know, to know what, how totake care of themselves yeah,
you know that type thing.
(43:52):
So what's next the institute?
What's next for thing?
So what's?
Speaker 4 (43:57):
next the Institute, what's next for?
So, the currently on theInstitute, the, the, the.
The next goal or finish line isgoing to be open up a
foundation and and essentiallyhelp people that were in the
same shoes as I was.
The course is going to do justthat, but you know where?
Maybe they need to get someteeth, their teeth fixed because
they're rotten, or maybe theyneed a nice dress, or they need
to get you fixed because they'rerotten, or maybe they need a
(44:18):
nice dress, or they need to getsomehow ready for a job
interview.
Now that they've stayed thecourse, they've turned their
life around and they need someextra help.
I want to start a foundationthat will help those people as
well.
So those are the two big thingson my list right now.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Because even with the interview what you were just
saying there's a lot of peoplethat don't know how to interview
.
Well, they don't know how todress for an interview.
You dressing to go to grocerystore and you dressing to go to
interview is totally differentand you have to understand that.
There is people like John thatis saying, okay, I'll teach you
(44:53):
that.
You know, I know what it's likenot to know things and you got
to tap into that and you have tosurround yourself with
like-minded people that arereally trying to be the better
them.
You know what I'm saying and Ithink a lot of times that people
are embarrassed.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Yeah, no, truly.
And you know there's a.
There's a whole new type ofinterviewing that we're not used
to anymore and that's virtual.
So you know there's a whole newtype of interviewing that we're
not used to anymore and that'svirtual.
So you know there's a lot of.
There's a curveball you and.
I, you know we had, we're usedto and probably still are used
to, you know, in-personinterviews and I remember when I
was about 25 years old, I'minterviewing for the Gallenberg
(45:31):
Fire Department.
I told you that I did thephysical agility test for both
Knoxville and Gatlinburg and thewritten exam.
Well then, it was an in-personinterview and they sit you in a
chair, you know, all by yourself, in the center of the room and
there's a table of decoratedfire chiefs and captains that
got all these, you know, theirtheir dress uniforms on is what
(45:53):
we call it in the fire serviceand they got all their brass on,
you know, gold stars and bugles.
And you know you've got the HRdirector for the city and all
these people and they're askingthe same 10 questions to the
candidates, you know, andthey're trying to grade you on
your answers.
I remember one of the questionsfrom came from one of the
(46:15):
gentlemen.
He's like you know, we're goingto background check and run
your record and if we do, we'regoing to find anything.
Now, it was the one question Iwas hoping they weren't going to
ask because I knew the answer.
But now, up to that point I'vealready tried to.
I went to each courthouse andexpunged all my records.
So theoretically, they they'regone, you know.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Right.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
But I didn't know that and I paused for a second.
But then I I just owned up whenI said well, matter of fact,
you may, and I remember thesilence in the room just getting
dead, dead quiet.
You could hear a pin drop andanother gentleman didn't even
ask a question looked up andsaid, well, what are you even
(47:04):
doing here?
And then another one said well,what are we going to find, son?
You know what?
What?
What are we going to find?
I said, well, um, uh, there's alot.
And I went down this list of myrap sheet, you know, and uh,
those are the only ones I canthink of off the top of my head.
It was kind of nervous and, um,I said, you know I'm, I'm going
to give you every reason whynot to hire me, and I understand
(47:24):
that.
But you wanted to be honest butI, but the guy that was doing
all those crimes is a, is a manthat no longer exists, and but I
also know that it was me and ifyou choose not to give me this
job because of that, I'm okaywith it.
Now, to remind you, I just wentthrough EMT school year and a
half of college of working fulltime, new baby, new husband and
(47:50):
a full-time college student.
It's for this moment, righthere, and it could have been,
and everybody always.
And they say they won't hireyou, there's no way you're going
to get this job.
And here they asked the samedamn question.
I thought it would never beasked and here I am.
I'm like man, these people areright.
You know, the back of my mindthe whole time spinning.
And I said, uh, but I promisewon't let you down.
(48:18):
And, um, they went on with theinterview.
When they got finished, one ofthe guys came up to me uh, fire
chief.
You know, just as you canimagine, he had a, this gray
mustache you know like he's beenin the business for umpteen
years and he came over and hesaid, son, frankly I don't know
if you're gonna get this job ornot, but what I do know is it's
not gonna matter.
That's the best interview Iever had in my life.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Really yeah, and it changed your life.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
Yeah, 25.
And they gave me a chance and Ididn't stop there.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
So I'll tell y'all I would get this book.
Let it be a blueprint ofovercoming whatever you're
trying to overcome.
And I would say believe inyourself, believe in yourself,
dust yourself off, get yourselftogether, surround yourself with
(49:04):
like-minded people and if yourcircle is not the circle that is
going to tell you, stay thecourse, find a different circle.
It's that easy.
I'm a firm believer of and ittook me some years to get here
but if a room is not for me, Ijust go to another room.
(49:26):
It's that easy Just go toanother room.
You know, it took beingrejected and not being what
people thought I should be, butit took God to come in me and
tell me to go to another room.
It's that simple.
I thank you for coming here andbeing so honest and raw and
(49:50):
telling your story, because Ithink a lot of people need to
understand that you can stay thecourse and you can make it and
you can make a difference.
Do not stop Once you make it.
You got to make a differencewith other people and show them
that.
I thank you for giving me thisinterview and everybody he'll be
(50:11):
back in a few months.
Tune in every Friday to Talkin'Tennessee.
Bye, guys.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Thanks for listening to Talkin' Tennessee with Yvonca
.
Watch out for our weeklyepisodes from the First Family
of Real Estate and check us outon the web
wwwyvoncasalesrealestatecom.
See our videos on Yvonca'sYouTube channel or find us on
Facebook underYvoncasalsrealestatecom.
See our videos on Yvonca'sYouTube channel or find us on
Facebook under Yvonca Landis andTwitter at Yvonca Landis.
(50:42):
And don't forget to tell afriend about us.
Until next time.
Yvonca signing off.
Check us out to hear the latest on life in the
volunteer state.
Yvonca and her guests discusseverything from life, love and
business with a Tennessee flair.
It's a Tennessee thing, alwaysrelatable, always relevant and
always a good time.
This is Talkin' Tennessee, andnow your host, yvonca.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This episode is brought to you by the Landis
team, your go-to real estatefamily in East Tennessee.
If you are looking to buy orsell, we are the ones you should
call.
Give us a call at 865-660-1186or check out our website at
YvoncaSellsRealEstatecom.
That's YonneCa Y-V-O-N-N-C-ASalesRealEstatecom.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Welcome back to Talking Tennessee with Yvonne.
I'm your host and I am back forpart two of John Matthews'
segment with Talking Tennessee.
Welcome back.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Yeah, thanks for having me come back.
This is great.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I love it and I wanted to do this in two parts
because his story is socompelling and it is a must
listen and receive typeinterview because you went
through a lot in your life andyou still keep a smile and you
still want to give back.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yeah, maybe that's what keeps me smiling.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Look, give back.
Yeah, maybe that's what keepsme smiling Look, giving back.
He wrote a book and it's calledWisdom at a Cost, and when I
tell you that it's a book thatwe all can relate to, there's
portions of the book that we canall gravitate to and say I know
I've been there to, and say Iknow I've been there, and this
(01:50):
part is going to be all abouthow he came out of the dust, how
he dusted himself off, and hesaid you know what?
I want something out of my life.
And in 2016, you were in a rolethat will go down in history of
wildfires that truly affectedEast Tennessee.
(02:11):
Let's talk about Gatlinburgwildfires, yeah 2016.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
What a day.
You know it's cliche to saythat that day started out just
like every other day, but it did.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Take us back.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
How did it all unravel that day?
Well, uh, I don't know.
Uh, do you remember where youwere at on that that monday
morning?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I was on the interstate, okay, and the radio
was on, and I don't rememberwhich radio smoke in the area,
though, yeah a lot of smoke inthe area and it it was like what
is going on, Because I didn'tthink that big when I saw the
smoke.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I think, yeah, for me personally same.
But also, if you remember thatwhole entire month smoke was in
the area, you know there werefires that were burning down in
Chattanooga.
The whole state of Tennesseehad wildfires that were popping
up.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
You're bringing back my memory.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yes, we were in a drought and so when waking up
that morning in November it was,it was a little bit more smoky.
We had ash that actually wasphysically visible on some cars,
that kind of looked like snowand it had a little bit of a
(03:31):
different tone to it, if youwill.
But you know, at the end of theday everybody got up.
People that were on vacationeither were heading home,
because it was the weekend afterThanksgiving, or parents were
taking their kids to school, youknow, maybe they were doing
Cyber Monday shopping.
I mean, it was the weekendafter Thanksgiving, or parents
were taking their kids to school, you know, maybe they were
doing Cyber Monday shopping.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I mean, it was just another typical Monday after
Thanksgiving.
Let's go back a little bit.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
What was your role At the time?
I was the emergency managementdirector and, for people that
understand what that is, thinkof FEMA, the Federal.
Emergency Management Agency.
This is more of a local branch,if you will, of that.
So in the state of Tennesseethere's 95 counties, and each
(04:18):
county is required to have anemergency management director,
and if they don't appoint one,the mayor, oddly enough, assumes
that role.
That's how the statute iswritten.
And so we have a distinctorganization called TEMA, which
is the Tennessee EmergencyManagement Agency, and of course
each county has one.
Knoxville has the Knox CountyEmergency Management Agency.
(04:39):
Colin Ickes is the director,great friend of mine, and I was
at the time the director of theSevier County Emergency
Management Agency.
I was 35 years old.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
At 35 years old yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
And I think you know we left last week talking about
you know where I was at andclimbing the ladder, so to speak
.
But you know, at 21, I was anIV drug user at rock bottom,
rotten teeth in and out of jailand at 35, I was the EMA
director of Sevier County.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
So tell the people what made you go down the road
to being in that position beforewe talk about that.
Yeah, sure it was more of awindy road.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
You know, when I first got clean and went back to
school, fell in love withbiology, essentially, and I
phone book.
You know, back for Google orchat GPT, we actually had to
(05:48):
physically look up phone numbersand pulled out the phone book.
You know, a lot of people alsomay not know this, but frankly,
70% of all fire departments inthe nation are volunteer.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
There's only about 30% that are paid and so I know
it was a lot of volunteers.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
I didn't know it was that big and so essentially, you
know, Sevier County is nodifferent and there was three
departments that was an actualcareer driven type of
opportunity and that was theGallenberg Fire Department,
Pigeon Forge and Sevierville.
So I called all three of them,got the phone book out.
Somebody answered the phone,gave them a elevator pitch,
saying, hey, you know, want toget in the business, Don't know
anything, you know what do yourecommend?
How do I get in?
(06:32):
And basically they all said thesame thing Become an EMT, try
to volunteer at a firedepartment to get to get some
experience and get to know thepeople.
Because it's it is a tight knitcommunity emergency.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
And so I did that.
I actually, oddly enough, wentto.
I was bartending in Gallenberg,and so on my way to work one
night I stopped at the firedepartment, put an application
in to become a volunteer at theGallenberg fire department.
You know they never called me.
They never called me to be avolunteer but fire department.
(07:09):
You know, they never called methey never called me to be a
volunteer, but I eventually gota job there later on.
But, uh, and then the otherthing is I would roll on their
face, yeah, um.
But then I didn't enroll incollege and I um went to become
an EMT and there was someprereqs and some things that
that looks like.
But eventually um had to, uh,you know, send in letters to the
state of Tennessee because Iwas incarcerated and I was on
drugs and all these things thatum, I had to plead my case of
(07:30):
why I should get a license inthe state of Tennessee to
practice medicine and frankly begiven some of these drugs that
um, um, you know the patientsinside the ambulance are going
to take the ones that I wasaddicted to.
Um, and there was people, familyincluded, told me my whole life
that you know this portion ofmy life.
I should say that you're noone's ever going to hire you.
(07:51):
You know you won't.
You won't get this job becauseyou were and you went to jail
seven different times.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
And so you know what I didn't do.
I didn't listen to one effort.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
And a lot of times there's so many naysayers.
A lot of times that you know, Ithink people are small minded,
okay, and I think a lot of timespeople are um, want to keep you
in a box, because they're in abox, you know, just because you
made a mistake does not meanthat is your life and you're
(08:27):
supposed to stay there.
Of what I hear is coming out ofyour mouth, is I found
something that I like.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And I wanted to do something in service.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I wanted to serve.
You started servicing people inbartending but then you said,
ok, I want to service savinglives, you know, and doing for
my community.
That's the biggest thing that Ilook at as a fireman Firemen's,
truly.
I'm friends with a lot offiremen.
Okay, they walk away from theirfamilies.
(09:01):
They save a lot of families.
They go into houses, buildings,all that to basically put back
whatever it is, you know, and alot of firemen don't come out
and I think a lot of peopledon't realize that and you have
to really have a heart forpeople to be a fireman.
(09:21):
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
No, I totally agree.
You know when somebody calls911, they're at a fireman.
Do you agree with that?
No, I totally agree.
You know when somebody calls9-1-1, they're at a tough moment
.
You know they do not have anymore answers.
It's a true emergency they havetried everything they know to do
and they are without an answer.
And so, thankfully, we have youknow this this, this
(09:44):
organization that is willing tocome to you and help you.
And so all you got to do iscall 9-1-1.
And whether it's an ambulancethat's going to come, a fire
department or the policedepartment to come help you
through whatever situation youmay be in, it doesn't have to be
a, you know, a domestic assaultor your house is burning down.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
It could be a gamut of different things, but you
know their job is to show up onyour worst day, you know that's
pretty crazy and help you pickup the pieces, but you know what
that's like, because you had todust yourself off and you had
to make sure that, ok, I wentdown this road, I need to go
down a different road and I wantto make something of my life,
(10:26):
and I think that when 2016 came,you could relate to a lot of
things that you are seeing,because you had trauma, you had
experiences of loss.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
And so let me back up just a second there.
You know when I went and gothired on at the Gothenburg Fire
Department.
You know, fire department, Ihad to fix my criminal record.
I told you before I had topetition the state of why I
should be a licensed emergencymedical technician in the state
of Tennessee.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
And I bet you that wasn't easy.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Wasn't easy.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Did you have a lot of no's?
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I had a lot of or was it more process.
It was more of a process and alot of no's.
I had a lot of or was it moreprocess?
It was more of a process, and alot of people that weren't
really involved in the processtell me I wasn't going to make
it, you know.
So basically, people thatdidn't know whether it wasn't up
to them.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
But you seem like you're strong-willed though.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Yeah, I learned real quick not to listen to the
naysayers.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yes, because a lot of times people want to say
they're positive.
There's a lot of negativepeople and they pour out that.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
They're close to you.
Usually it's friends and family.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It is, it really is, and I hate to say that, but it's
just true.
And a lot of times, your family, you know the people that you
really want to believe in you alot of them don't.
I hate to say this, but this istrue is a lot of strangers have
more belief in you than yourown friends and family.
(12:16):
Do you agree?
Speaker 4 (12:17):
with that, absolutely .
Yeah, they're in your corner.
It's crazy.
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
And you have to keep going and just truly believe
that there is purpose for you.
In 2016, when the wildfires hit, um, what was your first
thought?
Speaker 4 (12:36):
That.
That's a deep question.
That's a good question.
You know, essentially that dayour office was deployed early on
.
You know, and we essentiallywhat emergency management does?
They work with the localdepartments, whether it's the
fire department, whether it's anambulance service, whether it's
Homeland Security or the policedepartment, and we're basically
(12:59):
there to assist them intomaking better decisions and
navigating through thisemergency, whatever that may be.
You know you're not going tocall 911 and the emergency
management agency show up atyour house to help you
personally.
And now, if the emergencyservice personnel get there and
it's something that they're notfamiliar with or they can't
(13:21):
solve, they call us.
We're like a 911 for 911.
Right, Okay, and so we come inand that particular day they
being the national park calledthe Gallenberg fire department,
it was like, hey, you know we'vegot this fire.
It's been burning since the daybefore Thanksgiving.
You know we've attemptedseveral times to extinguish it
(13:42):
and put in.
You know fire breaks and allthese things.
But, however, it's now close tosome historic buildings near
Gallenberg, near the city limitsof Gallenberg.
Would you be willing to go overthere and at least bring an
engine and some fire personnelto protect these old cabins?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
You know, back when they were trying to assess the
situation.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Not even at this point, we're not even assessing.
It was literally just to go tothis particular spot that had
some old cabins.
If you've been, like this isnot in Cades Cove, I don't want
to confuse the viewers, but ifyou've ever been to Cades Cove
and you've seen these old cabins, right, I mean, that's
essentially what they're goingto.
You know, protect and.
But at the time, which was, youknow, probably early afternoon,
(14:31):
late morning, this is what wefound out.
So they go up there, they callus in, us being the emergency
management agency, to comeassist, and some of our staff
personnel went up there andworked with the fire department
to do just the early things inan incident, if you will.
Well, one of the things is, youknow, looking at, what's the
(14:54):
first residential community nearthis fire?
Now, this fire is miles andmiles away from the first
community, which is Minot Park.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And so the Gallenberg .
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Police Department Minot Park.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
It's in.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Gallenberg and it's going.
Have you ever been to the ParkVista in Gallenberg?
Yes, so it's sort of there.
On your right-hand side as yougo up towards Park Vista,
there's a small park andcommunity right there, and so
the police department,gallenburg Police Department and
the fire department set up anevacuation to those residents.
(15:26):
They didn't have to leave, itwasn't a requirement.
Again, you know this is broaddaylight.
Yeah, it's.
These are usually residents.
They've seen wildfires theirwhole life, you know.
But they opened up a shelterjust in case at the Gatlinburg
Community Center and then, asthe fire progressed and more
people found out about it youknow, the smoke is really heavy
(15:47):
in the area so they opened upthe command post at the
Gatlinburg Fire Department.
News stations are there, newstations are there.
They brought in this fire modelthat essentially you could put
in the wind speed, thebarometric pressure, the Doppler
(16:08):
radar, all these things, andthen the topographical map of
the terrain where the fire is atin this model will actually
show you the the development andthe growth of this particular
wildfire and how fast it's goingto spread.
And from that model it wasshowing that it wasn't going to
reach the city limits ofGallenberg for, you know, half a
day, 16, 17, 18 hours, and rainwas coming through the forecast
(16:29):
to be here in just a few hours,like around nine, 10 o'clock
that night, which is not whathappened.
You know, the rain didn'tactually come until mid morning,
two o'clock in the morning andum, from around the six, 30, uh
to to 10 o'clock hour.
Um, you know this, these uhwinds picked up to be hurricane
(16:50):
force winds.
I think the last reading, uh,the there was a weather station
that was monitoring wind speedsand before it was damaged, the
last reading had 87 mile an hourwinds, which you know is
essentially hurricane forcewinds.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
So that day you went up to do you know what you could
to save those cabins.
You know what you could to savethose cabins.
What was it like just trying tocontribute to others and
talking to others in thecommunity and explaining to them
.
You know what is transpiring,what.
(17:30):
What can you tell me?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
so, um, you know, right now, you guys, the it's
still a Gatlinburg FireDepartment problem issue.
You know they're they're thejurisdiction in charge.
This is still early on, and sothey have their own protocols,
(17:54):
their own standard operatingprocedures that they do things
for certain incidents, and sothey have their own metrics of
how this looks in a wildfire, ina flood, and you know all these
things.
And so they're going throughtheir protocol and notifying,
and for them that particular daywas going door to door, just
because it's a small community,right and then at the same time,
(18:14):
doing press conferences andexplaining what's going on, you
know, at the command post, butessentially the fire chief, greg
Miller, at the time and youknow was the last press
conference that he did wastalking about this fire model
that we just got done, talkingabout and what it was looking
like and you know where the whowe've already evacuated versus
(18:39):
where the shelters at, and justgiven the public information of
what's going on with theinformation we had at the time,
which is just basically standardoperating.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I bet you doing a press conference was probably
really stressful because peoplewanted answers.
You know that type thing.
But I can't imagine, you know,emotionally, as a man, you know
in that position, what was youremotions, what did you feel as
just what was going on?
(19:10):
You knew you had to speak, youhad to give some answers, but
emotionally, seeing people, youknow, panicking, people scared,
what was that like?
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I'm glad you asked.
So, essentially, this is Mondayand the first 12 hours of any
incident is what we call theresponse phase.
So we have 12 hours and this iswhere the responders come out
and they are doing what they canto mitigate whatever emergency
there is.
And then the second 12 hours isthe first operational period,
(19:44):
if you will.
And so what you do on every 12hours is a new operational
period and you set objectivesand goals to accomplish in this
12 hours.
You know, and every there'susually staff change and there's
a there's a transfer of ofcommand to, to people that are
going to be changing out roles.
You know, we've we had over4,000 apparatus to come to the
(20:11):
Gatlinburg area to help fightthis fire.
I mean, you think about how biga fire truck is.
Imagine we're going to put4,000 of them.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, and a lot of people.
I will say it did bring a lotof people together that really
wanted to help people becausepeople lost so much.
You know that type thing.
But I just can't imagine beingin that position that you can't
just change it.
It's not something that justchanges like that.
(20:38):
I don't want to give away thebook, but I do want to say in
part of the book I read that youwere saying that you went in
the bathroom and you know,trying to gather yourself
together and put water on yourface to prepare, you know, to go
out and speak and speak aboutthings that may not be pleasing
(20:59):
to people, but it was justreality.
The human aspect, yes, what wasthat like?
Speaker 4 (21:04):
So that particular part was later on the week.
You know we closed the city ofGallenberg down for about six
days and you know we had so manymissing people who turned
eventually hundreds of people onthis missing list and trying to
find them and locate familymembers because that was the
biggest thing is people, withthe city being shut down they
(21:26):
could, they didn't even know iftheir own house was burnt.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Exactly, business was burned.
And so I do remember that itwas.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
It was our job to one find these missing people and
somehow, you know, provide thisinformation to the public, which
what we did is we actually wentto each individual house on
foot.
I mean, there was still no cellphone towers, that meant no GPS
.
We had to print old maps andbring people that have never
been to Gatlinburg that has noroad signs, no trees, no houses,
(21:55):
no buildings, only driveways,and you would have to go to a
house that was still standing,look at the house number and say
, okay, I'm at 2021, songbirdRoad.
This next house must be 2022,.
Even though it's not there, Ican see a driveway and you start
counting the driveways.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I mean, that's how they had to map 2,500 different
buildings and I want you all tounderstand that there are a lot
of people that own cabins thatare not living in East Tennessee
.
So they're getting calls frompeople that are saying tell me
if my house is still there.
So that, right there, thestress of all of that, you know,
was on his head.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
It was trying not been to bed.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
I've never even went home.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Yeah, imagine that you know and it's out of your
control.
You're trying to control asituation that was out of
control and then you're tryingto take all these calls and put
yourself in that position.
You know to take all thesecalls and put yourself in that
position.
You know what would it be like?
I mean because when you'vegiven so much to your community
(23:03):
and you're dedicating service,and worked so hard to be in that
room.
Yeah, to be in that room andchange your life to be in that
room.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Or you probably worked harder than anybody in
that room to be in that room.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Exactly, but you still could not make it go away.
And this was with their reality, because I know there was many
people that you had to tell yourhouse is gone yeah what was
that?
Speaker 4 (23:26):
like well, I uh in, um and I want to get back to the
bathroom thing because that'ssuch a good uh, good yes visual
for anybody who wants to he cangive that part away.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I just didn't want to .
Speaker 4 (23:38):
I didn't want to speak for you on that part, but
that when I was reading that Iwas just like it kind of got me
like oh, go ahead but, uh, thismap that we went live with after
we mapped out all these houses,which would allow somebody to
go to a website and see theycould type in their address and
they could see if their housewas lost or still there.
(23:58):
But and so we we put it on this, this, this company called Esri
and put it on their servers,which is a worldwide company.
It's a huge company.
This is our crazy, but I thinkit went live December 6th.
Okay, so there's only about 31days in December, so maybe it
was live 19 days in the year2016.
(24:19):
It was the most used map in theentire world for their company
and in the 19 days it was live.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
It's crashed all their servers.
So many people clicked on itthat it crashed their servers.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah, so just think about that.
People are having to go on thissite to see if their house is
still if their house is stillstanding.
There was many families thatdidn't know if their family
member that lived.
You know, a couple of milesaway or whatever.
I can't get a hold of themtheir phone's not ringing, are
(24:51):
they missing?
Speaker 4 (24:52):
And they would go on a list, this missing persons
list.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
And that's true Anxiety, and that's true anxiety
, and you're wanting to knowthat your family member is safe.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
And it's still at the same time we're developing new
goals and objectives to do thenext operational period,
commanding the scene for theoperational period we're in and
having press conferences twice aday to notify the public.
I mean, this is all going onwith no sleep.
We know what he ever left.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
We didn.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
This is all going on with no, sleep With nobody ever
left we didn't brush our teethfor the first three days.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I can't even imagine being in that position.
Yeah, it's crazy, so take us tothe bathroom.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yeah, so this particular incident is, like I
said, latter part of the week.
You know, they in the beginning, naturally, just with any other
disaster, people in thebeginning were just shocked, you
know just like.
I can't believe this happened.
We love Gatlinburg.
We vacationed there our entirelives.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I used to own a cabin up there.
I sold mine, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
I mean, memories are there.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Great memories.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
It sort of took a switch of like well, what went
wrong, how did we get here?
And when I say this switch, itreally wasn't who's to blame per
se, but there was this paradigmshift, slowly going, but some
people wanted to blame somebody.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
To blame somebody, yeah, and it's like well, how
did we get here?
Speaker 4 (26:11):
What went wrong?
What could we have done better?
And you know, the fact of thematter is that anything you look
back on, when you have moreinformation you know,
hindsight's 2020, you know.
So everybody's now got moreinformation and then they just
want to start armchairquarterbacking this event,
(26:32):
versus being in the moment andunderstanding what the
information we had at the timeand how we decided to do things,
things.
But now I'm I'm, you know, uhgoing back on the podium and
answering questions uh for textalerts, emergency alerts, and
everybody's got a questioneverybody's got a question.
Want to know why they didn't goout, why they didn't send it.
Um and uh who started?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
who started it?
Speaker 4 (26:53):
how the boys, you know these two boys who started,
I mean just just so many things.
And you know, like I said, I'mnot going to sleep.
How fast, I don't know exactly,but what?
(27:20):
What happened was the nationalpark put out a, you know, a
request for information,essentially to the public and
saying, hey, were you hikingthis, the chimneys top trailhead
, on this particular day, whichwas the day before Thanksgiving?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
And did you see anything?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
essentially Right.
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Because we know the fire started up there and it's a
popular hiking trail, sosomebody had to see something.
Well, somebody came up and saidyou know what?
I actually hiked it that dayand I was wearing a GoPro and it
was recording all entire timeand I I know exactly who did it.
So, um, that's how those boyswere caught and arrested and all
(27:57):
those things.
But you know, before I went outon that day, you know I went
into this bathroom stall andViewers.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Listen to this one.
You're going to want this book.
Read this book, because thisyeah Game changer.
Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
And thought to myself what some of the viewers
probably had thought at somepoint in time in their life and
I thought how in the F did?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I get here.
How did you get here?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
How did I get here?
I'm about to go speak to thenews media from all over the US
and answer some tough questions.
Answer some tough questions andand honestly, you know knowing
how hard I work to get to thisvery point in my life and and
(28:45):
this is what you find this iswhat I'm facing.
It's like I worked I clawed myway out of rock bottom.
Clawed my way out of rock bottom, yes, and this is what people
are going to remember me as youknow, and they and they don't
even, they don't even know meand the worst part about it and
being judged by so many peoplethat don't know don't know the
(29:05):
situation, assume this, and evenwhen we went out and told them
the exact truth, they don'tbelieve you.
We're in this, this world,where somebody can get on media
and actually say the truth, andthey don't want to believe you.
No, they just want to believebecause a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
I hate to say this.
A lot of people want to uhbelieve.
They don't want to believe good.
Yeah, they want to believe bad,because bad keeps the story
going.
Yeah, you see what I'm sayingbelieving something that is good
and somebody is really tryingtheir best to work through some
things for the greater good.
(29:40):
A lot of this world do not wantto hear that, and so you have
to sit and think about am I thatperson that I wanted to hear
negative?
So go ahead about the bathroom.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Yeah, so I remember.
You know, like it was yesterday, just leaving the stall, I
splashed some water on my faceand, as I'm walking up to this
podium and dreading every singlemoment of it, I was I was
thinking that they are going tofind out that I've been in jail,
I was incarcerated, I was ondrugs and they were going to go
(30:13):
after my character, something Iworked so hard to make an impact
and change for the better, andI've helped thousands of people.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
But people are going to the podium and all the hands
went up to ask the question andyou picked the first person that
(30:47):
you saw raise their hand orwhatever, and all I could think
about when I was reading that is, I know me.
I would think, okay, I'mpicking this, what are they
going to ask?
Speaker 4 (30:59):
me.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Is it going to be favorable or is it?
Are they going to drill me forevery single thing?
And so did that happen.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
You know it's.
It did happen in a certainsense, but not like hey, uh
heard you were an IV drug user,homeless and all methadone.
What.
What gives you the right to beon this?
You know, in this, in thiscommand post, and how did
anybody allow you to do this?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
But it was more Did your insecurities, once those
things came out, did yourinsecurities of, oh my gosh,
that?
Speaker 4 (31:34):
you or did Imposter syndrome a thousand percent and
my insecurities were there.
Yeah, I thought it was like I'man imposter, like I can't
believe Do y'all hear that.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, absolutely, this is a grown man that's
saying I overcame all thesedifferent things, but now I'm on
the biggest stage of my lifeand now all fingers are pointing
at me and they're talking abouteverything that I I've been
through and I've overcame, butthey're they're using it to
(32:03):
weaponize me to, to, to bring medown because of their stress,
of what they think it should beor what I should have done.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
And there was another reporter that that same time
period.
She tried to compare the theGallenberg wildfires to a to a
fire that happened in Asheville,north Carolina.
And basically said that the, the, the people in charge of that
event in Asheville, NorthCarolina not Nashville but
Asheville, North Carolina, mycountry accent kind of confuses
(32:36):
people but was evacuated to townahead of time.
There were some damage lost butno lives were lost.
And essentially, why didn't youdo that here?
And the fact of the matter isthere are two totally different
fires.
One was a slow moving fire,slow burning fire that happened
over a week period of time.
This one, you know, was burninga half an acre a second.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Half an acre, a second.
I did not know that.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
Yeah, it was.
They had a study come in and athird party you know, assessed
the entire incident and came outwith a report which is
published.
Anybody can read it, but thisafter action report.
In there they state that out ofthe 17,000 acres they burned
and the 2,500 structures burnedat a half an acre a second.
That's how fast I mean it wasmelting cars.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
But you even think about, like the big wildfires in
LA.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
OK.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
They were trying to compare Asheville to.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Gatlinburg, I mean thoseatlinburg, I mean those are
.
That's like us trying tocompare ours to LA.
Those are two different typesituations.
Yes, there's something similar,that everybody lost something.
You know what I'm saying.
But you can't compare that andyou can't point fingers at the
(33:56):
person in position becauseyou're so angry.
I do understand anger and I dounderstand being scared, but at
the same time, it doesn't meansomebody's at fault for it.
Yeah, Exactly you know what I'msaying and at that time we
didn't know the boys and allthat type thing.
But it was like more coming atyou, like you did it when you
(34:18):
know you really didn't.
Yeah, you were just brought into try to stop the loss and help
people rebuild and help peoplefind their family members and
that type thing.
So what your insecurities inthat is?
Speaker 4 (34:34):
but here's this thing too on that ashville, the fire
departments in in Asheville, theassociation, the fire chief
association, wrote us a letterand said that hey, we're sorry
for the events that occurred onthe news.
We don't support the what thatnews reporter said and in fact
these fires are totallydifferent and we're we really
try to compare it to it.
(34:54):
Yeah, that's how.
Nobody knows that.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Oh, that's an exclusive.
Somebody wrote that.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
I mean they wrote to you to tell you an apology for,
on the behalf of Nashville, youknow, or the North Carolina Fire
Chiefs Association.
I got an emergency service tohelp people.
And you know, I want to say,and I think I can say with
confidence, the super majorityof all people in emergency
services want to help.
I mean, that's what they'rethere.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
They love the service they want to serve.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Yeah, and now there is a community.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
There is a small portion of them.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Bad apples will put a negative light or connotation
on.
You know the company or theservice that they're providing,
but the super majority of themwant to help.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Want to help and want to make a difference.
You know, make it a differencein your community.
I truly believe evangelism thatwhat God was talking about in
the Bible a true evangelism isin the streets, it's in your
community.
It's helping it to make it abetter place and it starts with
you.
It starts with, okay, you sin,there's a need and you try your
(36:07):
best to fulfill that need.
So tell me this what does thetitle of wisdom at a cost mean?
What does it mean?
Title of wisdom at a cost me?
Speaker 4 (36:21):
what does it mean, yeah, uh, and what made you so
much and what made you want towrite this book, the?
The short answer on why Iwanted to write it was to to to
one share the story of um, in myopinion an incredible comeback
story, to give you know somebodythat's either in those same
shoes, the confidence, themotivation, the strength to stay
(36:46):
the course, and also forsomebody that is I love that.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Stay the course yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:53):
Yeah, and or also some that's a loved one that's
witnessing somebody that's goingthrough some of those things,
and allow them to understandwhat's Stay the course sense.
All you need to do is quitRight and and that's but you're.
You're here saying, stay thecourse.
(37:18):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Stay thecourse.
And and so the wisdom thatcomes from all those demons that
I battled in drug addiction andbeing homeless and IV drug user
and and and trying to deal withall the shame that came with it
to be a confident man later onin life that went from 21 years
old IV drug user to being 35.
(37:40):
After the wildfires I waspromoted to assistant mayor over
all emergency services Do y'allhear that I went from 21.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Who would have thought a drug addict would be?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
On the method of clinic In Knoxville.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yes, Down there at the DRD with everybody else
every single morning getting my90 room and he's telling you he
hit rock bottom and then nowyou're being put in positions to
make decisions for mankind.
Yeah, I mean, who would havethought that you know so?
And you wrote this book to tell.
(38:15):
It's kind of like it's kind oflike the blueprint.
Yeah, it's kind of like writinga blueprint and saying, hey,
this was it, and don't give up,stay the course and trust the
process.
Yeah, and so what do you wantthis book to be known as?
Yeah, tell me that.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
Well, I'm going to actually steal that.
I like the blueprint.
I think it's a great way, youknow, really, I think for those
that had a loved one that wasaddicted or went through PTSD or
any of these these childhoodtraumas, you know, it's for you
to better understand what'sgoing on in somebody's mind,
because I try to bring thereader into those moments I was
(38:56):
in, when I was in those momentsand I, um, I had help with a
woman named Meg Davis who is aghost writer and is does very
talented and she's the one thathelps me build this character
development and and share thisstory, this with these, these
details that you'll read, andthen also for those addicts that
(39:16):
are going through it.
You know that, um, uh, thatthey can see this blueprint, but
the so, yes, I want everybodyto read it.
Uh, of course, right, thosecliches that sounds.
But, um, you know for, and ifyou do give it a chance and you
do read it and you do enjoy itand you think it could benefit
somebody else, please share it.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
That's the biggest thing is just pay it forward and
see how many lives we canimpact and change.
And if you see somebody that isgoing through that and you
don't have the words, this bookis a great book that you could
buy for that person and say, youknow, I don't have all the
answers, but this person wentthrough this.
Once you read this book, youknow and see if you can relate
(40:02):
to it, if it will help you, ifit will give you strength to get
through.
I think that's the biggestthing and because a lot of times
, if you're not in that,whatever situation it is, you
don't have the right words.
This book to me, is theblueprint of saying you know
what, even when people countedme out, even when people thought
(40:26):
that I was going to be theworst of worse, god brought me
through and he made me getthrough and I'm still going.
What is your mission of stay inthe course Institute?
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Yeah, tell me that, uh, what I've been working on
now and quit my job, uh, and anddiving all my time, and energy
and money into um, is this thingcalled Stay the Course
Institute.
And essentially it's going tobe a course that people can
develop these life skills.
(41:02):
So you take somebody that's 28years old is the example I
always give that's beenincarcerated or on drugs, and
you take a 28-year-old that'slived this, lived this quote,
unquote normal life.
Their life skills are not thesame.
You know the this normal 20 yearold they're going to, they've
(41:23):
opened up a bank account.
They've maybe got a car loan ora home loan, or they went to
college and know how to fill outa FAFSA report or get a college
loan.
You know the one that's been injail, incarcerated and on drugs
they're, they have skills.
There's, there's, not the sameit's not the same and there's so
much shame of like.
You know, I'm 28 years old, Ishould know how to do this, but
(41:45):
I don't even want to say, like,how do you open a bank account,
you know, and it's.
They already feel, uh, shamefulfor all the bad decisions.
You know.
I just want to give them aplace that they can learn these
things at the comfort of theirown home.
It'll all be online.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
And a lot of people don't understand.
Like, let's go back to yourchildhood.
You know your dad was alcoholic.
There was a lot of you knowyoung, when you were young,
things that you needed to learn.
But when you have an alcoholicfor a father, there's a lot of
things that he was not teachingyou or showing you, and bank
(42:20):
account is one of them.
There are so many people thatdo not know how to open a bank
account and do not see a valueof having a bank account.
Or a savings account or anythinglike that, any of that, even
with credit how to pay yourbills, that type thing.
I think a lot of us take thatfor granted, that everybody
should know what that is.
But if you're not taught how topay the utility bill, if you're
(42:44):
not taught, it's why I trulybelieve I don't care what a
family's decision is, if a womanworks or not works.
I think that you should knowyour family's finances.
Yeah, okay, and how to pay,because if someone passes away
or gets sick, that type thingyou know if you've never paid a
(43:07):
mortgage, if you've never paid autility bill or a phone bill,
that type thing, because thatwas always taking care of you,
not just someone that'sincarcerated.
There's a lot of people that'snever been to jail, that has no
clue how to pay a bill becauseI'm in real estate guys, y'all
know this and there's been womenand men that have been left by
(43:30):
their spouses and that spousetook care of all of those things
and now they don't know how todo it and a lot of them are
embarrassed to say I didn't askany questions.
So I feel like your institutewill help a lot of people.
You know, to know what, how totake care of themselves yeah,
you know that type thing.
(43:52):
So what's next the institute?
What's next for thing?
So what's?
Speaker 4 (43:57):
next the Institute, what's next for?
So, the currently on theInstitute, the, the, the.
The next goal or finish line isgoing to be open up a
foundation and and essentiallyhelp people that were in the
same shoes as I was.
The course is going to do justthat, but you know where?
Maybe they need to get someteeth, their teeth fixed because
they're rotten, or maybe theyneed a nice dress, or they need
to get you fixed because they'rerotten, or maybe they need a
(44:18):
nice dress, or they need to getsomehow ready for a job
interview.
Now that they've stayed thecourse, they've turned their
life around and they need someextra help.
I want to start a foundationthat will help those people as
well.
So those are the two big thingson my list right now.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Because even with the interview what you were just
saying there's a lot of peoplethat don't know how to interview
.
Well, they don't know how todress for an interview.
You dressing to go to grocerystore and you dressing to go to
interview is totally differentand you have to understand that.
There is people like John thatis saying, okay, I'll teach you
(44:53):
that.
You know, I know what it's likenot to know things and you got
to tap into that and you have tosurround yourself with
like-minded people that arereally trying to be the better
them.
You know what I'm saying and Ithink a lot of times that people
are embarrassed.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Yeah, no, truly.
And you know there's a.
There's a whole new type ofinterviewing that we're not used
to anymore and that's virtual.
So you know there's a whole newtype of interviewing that we're
not used to anymore and that'svirtual.
So you know there's a lot of.
There's a curveball you and.
I, you know we had, we're usedto and probably still are used
to, you know, in-personinterviews and I remember when I
was about 25 years old, I'minterviewing for the Gallenberg
(45:31):
Fire Department.
I told you that I did thephysical agility test for both
Knoxville and Gatlinburg and thewritten exam.
Well then, it was an in-personinterview and they sit you in a
chair, you know, all by yourself, in the center of the room and
there's a table of decoratedfire chiefs and captains that
got all these, you know, theirtheir dress uniforms on is what
(45:53):
we call it in the fire serviceand they got all their brass on,
you know, gold stars and bugles.
And you know you've got the HRdirector for the city and all
these people and they're askingthe same 10 questions to the
candidates, you know, andthey're trying to grade you on
your answers.
I remember one of the questionsfrom came from one of the
(46:15):
gentlemen.
He's like you know, we're goingto background check and run
your record and if we do, we'regoing to find anything.
Now, it was the one question Iwas hoping they weren't going to
ask because I knew the answer.
But now, up to that point I'vealready tried to.
I went to each courthouse andexpunged all my records.
So theoretically, they they'regone, you know.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Right.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
But I didn't know that and I paused for a second.
But then I I just owned up whenI said well, matter of fact,
you may, and I remember thesilence in the room just getting
dead, dead quiet.
You could hear a pin drop andanother gentleman didn't even
ask a question looked up andsaid, well, what are you even
(47:04):
doing here?
And then another one said well,what are we going to find, son?
You know what?
What?
What are we going to find?
I said, well, um, uh, there's alot.
And I went down this list of myrap sheet, you know, and uh,
those are the only ones I canthink of off the top of my head.
It was kind of nervous and, um,I said, you know I'm, I'm going
to give you every reason whynot to hire me, and I understand
(47:24):
that.
But you wanted to be honest butI, but the guy that was doing
all those crimes is a, is a manthat no longer exists, and but I
also know that it was me and ifyou choose not to give me this
job because of that, I'm okaywith it.
Now, to remind you, I just wentthrough EMT school year and a
half of college of working fulltime, new baby, new husband and
(47:50):
a full-time college student.
It's for this moment, righthere, and it could have been,
and everybody always.
And they say they won't hireyou, there's no way you're going
to get this job.
And here they asked the samedamn question.
I thought it would never beasked and here I am.
I'm like man, these people areright.
You know, the back of my mindthe whole time spinning.
And I said, uh, but I promisewon't let you down.
(48:18):
And, um, they went on with theinterview.
When they got finished, one ofthe guys came up to me uh, fire
chief.
You know, just as you canimagine, he had a, this gray
mustache you know like he's beenin the business for umpteen
years and he came over and hesaid, son, frankly I don't know
if you're gonna get this job ornot, but what I do know is it's
not gonna matter.
That's the best interview Iever had in my life.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Really yeah, and it changed your life.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
Yeah, 25.
And they gave me a chance and Ididn't stop there.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
So I'll tell y'all I would get this book.
Let it be a blueprint ofovercoming whatever you're
trying to overcome.
And I would say believe inyourself, believe in yourself,
dust yourself off, get yourselftogether, surround yourself with
(49:04):
like-minded people and if yourcircle is not the circle that is
going to tell you, stay thecourse, find a different circle.
It's that easy.
I'm a firm believer of and ittook me some years to get here
but if a room is not for me, Ijust go to another room.
(49:26):
It's that easy Just go toanother room.
You know, it took beingrejected and not being what
people thought I should be, butit took God to come in me and
tell me to go to another room.
It's that simple.
I thank you for coming here andbeing so honest and raw and
(49:50):
telling your story, because Ithink a lot of people need to
understand that you can stay thecourse and you can make it and
you can make a difference.
Do not stop Once you make it.
You got to make a differencewith other people and show them
that.
I thank you for giving me thisinterview and everybody he'll be
(50:11):
back in a few months.
Tune in every Friday to Talkin'Tennessee.
Bye, guys.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Thanks for listening to Talkin' Tennessee with Yvonca
.
Watch out for our weeklyepisodes from the First Family
of Real Estate and check us outon the web
wwwyvoncasalesrealestatecom.
See our videos on Yvonca'sYouTube channel or find us on
Facebook underYvoncasalsrealestatecom.
See our videos on Yvonca'sYouTube channel or find us on
Facebook under Yvonca Landis andTwitter at Yvonca Landis.
(50:42):
And don't forget to tell afriend about us.
Until next time.
Yvonca signing off.
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