October 3, 2025 • 37 mins
A single question reorients the whole conversation: what if success is measured by who you lift, not what you keep? We sit down with Phyllis Nichols—longtime Urban League leader, civil rights advocate, and relentless connector—to trace how faith, family, and practical tools turn good intentions into real outcomes.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
Everything from life blending and business with the
Tennessee to always relatable,always relevant, and always a
good time.
This is Duncan, Tennessee, andnow your host, Yavonka.
SPEAKER_01 (00:22):
This episode is brought to you by the Landis
Team, your go-to real estatefamily in East Tennessee.
If you are looking to buy orsell, we are the ones you should
call.
Give us a call at 865-660-1186or check out our website at
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That's yavonka y v-o-n-n-c-asalesrealestate.com.
SPEAKER_03 (00:48):
Welcome back to Talking Tennessee with Yavonka.
I am your host, and I am herewith a dear friend that is going
to wow the whole show.
Her name is Phyllis Nichols.
Welcome to Talking Tennessee.
Thank you, Yovanka, for invitingme to be with you.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
You've got you've got a beautiful track record of
talking uh with some veryimportant people on some very
important topics.
SPEAKER_03 (01:12):
Thank you so much.
Well, let me just say this toyou viewers.
I have admired this person fromafar for so many years.
I met her some years ago, but wewere at a gala.
And so, you know, when you're ata gala and you're and you're all
dressed up and you're meetingpeople and all that kind of
thing, you never get to reallystop and talk to the person as
(01:33):
long.
So I had to have this person on.
I've been wanting it for twoyears, I will say that.
But I just needed God to tell mewhen to go because I knew that
this was going to be a powerful,uh, uplifting interview
conversation that everybodyneeds to hear, but it needed to
(01:53):
be the right time.
So I thank you for coming.
Oh, I'm pleased to be here.
Very honor.
Please tell me who PhyllisNichols is.
SPEAKER_02 (02:01):
I think if you'd asked me that question two or
three or five years ago, myanswer would have been uh a
little different.
But in retrospect, now, at mywhere I am in my life now, being
retired for two years, I've hadtime to reflect and understand
(02:22):
who I really am.
So I would say that first ofall, I define myself as a
Christian.
I am a wife, I am a mother, I ama grandmother, I am a sister and
an auntie to a bunch of a bunchof adults.
SPEAKER_03 (02:46):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (02:47):
And so what I've said there is, you know, uh in
my relationship with Christ,that is the the center of who I
am and how I try to live, themost important thing of who I am
is my family.
SPEAKER_03 (03:02):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (03:02):
It is it is my family.
You know, uh uh what I do andhow I interact and how I go
about the world now all focuseson faith and family.
But I'm also uh uh in additionto that, okay, um, I'm a
community advocate.
(03:24):
The work that I did for 40 yearshas not gone away.
I tend to approach it in adifferent way.
I tend to allocate my time.
I am a civil rights advocate.
I am a public school advocate.
I am a women's rights advocate.
(03:46):
I'm a human rights advocate.
And so those things were uh werea part of what I did in my
professional career, but and andit helped to mold the
personality that I have and thecommitment that I have.
I just go about engaging andsupporting those things in a
(04:08):
different way now.
SPEAKER_03 (04:10):
Well, let me just say this.
There are so many women in theworld that in 40s and 50s and
above that sit and think, okay,who am I?
And I tell women all the time,you find out who you are
multiple times.
Oh, you change.
SPEAKER_02 (04:31):
You change.
SPEAKER_03 (04:32):
You change the woman I was in my 20s, I'm in my 50s
now.
I'm a totally different woman.
You know, so I can relate towhat you're saying.
There are so many differentlayers to you.
You know, and I can evenunderstand, you know, even
retiring.
Let me first say, how long didyou serve as the CEO of the
Urban League?
SPEAKER_02 (04:53):
Almost 30 years.
But I had a I had a career ineducation and and and private
business before then.
And, you know, long story isthat I I learned so many things
which helped me to be successfuluh uh as the CEO of the Urban
League.
But uh I I spent and wascommitted nearly 30 years of my
(05:14):
life to the Natural Area UrbanLeague and the Urban League
movement.
SPEAKER_03 (05:18):
What made you want to go to work at the Urban
League?
SPEAKER_02 (05:25):
Uh at the time, and this was like in 1994, and so
people can figure out my age orwhatever.
I'm old.
She doesn't look no, she's not.
But but at that time, I was partof a uh program with the College
of Social Work at UT who helpedthe Urban League to develop a
program.
And under that time, it wascalled Wellfire Work, which I
(05:48):
hate that that name, but that'suh was in during the Clinton
administration, and that's whatthey called it.
And the the premise of theprogram uh was to help women who
were out of the workforce getinto the workforce and become
self-sufficient.
Well, that sounds really nice,doesn't it?
Right.
(06:09):
But if you've never had a joband you've got small kids at
home and you lack transportationand health care and you lack the
necessities to be able to go towork, how do you do it?
And you don't have marketableskills.
So that program was to helpwomen transition.
The Urban League uh was doingthe workforce development
(06:32):
programs, uh, administrativeassistance, CNAs, doing all
things to get people in, butalso to show you a career path.
But if you were going back towork as a small, as a mother
with small kids, uh how and youwere taking care of them at
home, one of the things that theprogram did was help develop
(06:54):
collaboration so that you wouldknow who would be the child care
provider and help you connect tothat.
Also, if you don't havetransportation, how are you
gonna get to the job?
Uh if you have never ridden thebus, and this was 94, how how do
you access that?
And uh also um most jobs back inthe day, you had to have a chest
(07:18):
x-ray, you had to you had tohave a tuberculosis test, you
had to things that you had a lotof things before you went to
work.
Um uh and so the Urban Leaguehelped help to coordinate all
that.
What made me change my mindabout it is that one day a young
lady walked in and, you know, Iwas there, had my manila folder
(07:41):
and all stuff because you knowwe were going to do her intake
and sign her up.
And she got up after saying somefew choice words to me, she got
up and left.
And so the person that wasassigned as my assistant to help
do all the paperwork, she wentrunning down the hall and she
says, You can't say that to MissNichols.
(08:01):
You can't say that.
She said, I don't know who thatlady is, and she doesn't know
who I am.
I can say whatever I want.
Okay.
It was a reckoning for me.
I bet it was.
Because I didn't know her.
You didn't?
Her name was Evelyn.
I didn't know Evelyn.
I just saw her as the way thatso many times we treat people is
(08:26):
we see them as a file and anumber.
And it transformed me because Isaw this woman who uh really
wanted to improve her situation,but I hadn't given her the
dignity that she deserved.
Long story short.
SPEAKER_03 (08:46):
Let me say this.
Most people would never admitthat.
Oh, that's commendable for youto admit.
You know, I I didn't treat herin in a certain way.
Right, right.
Keep going.
SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
So so one of the things that um we did is long
story short, we brought Evelynback.
Evelyn, Evelyn was like ateacher to me because I learned
a whole lot of stuff aboutriding the bus and doing the
things that I never knew.
But I and and Evelyn was adifficult placement.
She took me through the stormand the fire and the everything.
(09:24):
But I told her, I said, Evelyn,one one day you're gonna get a
job and girlfriend, you're gonnabuy my lunch and you're gonna
give me that first dollar,because I bought many of lunches
for her.
Okay.
And so she came in and thathappened.
But what I did, and you say whatpeople wouldn't um admit to that
(09:47):
story, that story has been myguidepost.
I hung Evelyn's pay stub and herher dollar, which she was
supposed to buy me a hot dog.
I said I'd rather have thedollar.
And I hung that in my office,not not as a show piece, but to
remind me who I was and why Iwas there.
(10:11):
But also the people who workedfor me, the people who worked
with us, the people in thecollaboration.
Evelyn was the story of why wewere there and why we worked so
hard to help people because wehad taken her from this one end
of the spectrum to another.
Evelyn, Evelyn did well, and forthree or four years, she would
(10:33):
always drop drop in and let meknow.
But every person that we wouldhelp at the Urban League, I
learned a lesson from them.
People would say, why do you doit?
Because nobody is more excitedwhen they got a job than me.
Because I knew what the futurewould mean for them, uh both for
(10:56):
their self-esteem and for theirfamily and for the the future.
I totally agree.
Uh uh we we did um a lot of workwith preparing people to be uh a
homeowner.
Well, there's a lot of work whenyou're starting with somebody
from ground zero to prepare themto be credit worthy, mortgage
(11:17):
ready, all that.
And to celebrate when they closeon their first home, it feels
like I'm moving in.
Yes.
I settled in.
But we also celebrated whenpeople became business owners
because you know, people wouldcome in with a dream of wanting
to own a restaurant.
(11:38):
And so we'd have to give themthe hard lesson of just because
you can cook doesn't mean youcan own restaurants.
These are the things that, inaddition to a skill, you have to
you have to know.
SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
You have to know how to run a business.
SPEAKER_02 (11:52):
But I believe that everything that we did started
with education.
So understanding that educationwas the basis for being able to
move people forward, uh, wefocused more uh on going into
schools and and helping folks.
Let's try to prepare people fora lifetime of of
(12:13):
self-sufficiency, not andsuccess.
And success.
Whatever that looks like tothem.
Absolutely.
But also being able tounderstand that dreams can come
true, not because you wish it tobe, but because you plan and
work for it to be.
(12:35):
And what we quickly understoodis that uh uh folks want to be
successful.
Yes.
They just don't know how.
And it is incumbent on those whohave made it and have struggled
to understand the struggle andto help others to to achieve
(12:57):
their their goals and dreams aswell.
SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
I think that's how I got there.
I think if you becomesuccessful, um I think that it's
your duty to to share.
Because it may you just sharingyour story could give them the
fight to see, okay, if theyaccomplish that, I may can
(13:19):
accomplish my success.
Right.
It may not look the same, but Ican, you know, make my family
proud, make my kids proud, makemy spouse have proud, make
myself proud.
But I think a lot of times thatpeople forget that part.
And I think you've done a greatjob in showing with your walk of
(13:40):
really devoting your time toyour community, um, letting
people talk to you and ask youquestions and say, How do you do
this?
I think when you humble yourselfand allow yourself to see other
people's situations and notmeasure them up and just see the
person for who they are and justtry to help someone, it makes a
(14:04):
huge difference in someone'slife.
And I think that that God wantsus to be able to help the body
of Christ, that be a vessel forhim, you know, pour into people.
And I think you've done a greatjob in that.
Um, how has your faith shapedthe person you are today in the
way you lead?
SPEAKER_02 (14:23):
Oh, my faith has uh helped me to get through some
really hard times.
You know, people have thetendency to look at someone
where they are presently andthey think, oh, they had it,
they had it easy or or this oryou know, how how could they
know?
Uh because we don't all talkabout our struggles.
(14:46):
When when when I inherited, Icalled it the big seek at the
Urban League.
The Urban League had had nomoney, you know, very few, very
few staff people.
But what I was privileged toknow because I traveled the
country and saw what asuccessful, thriving,
(15:06):
contributing Urban Leagueaffiliate does, I knew we could
do that in Knoxville.
And uh I used that as myinspiration.
Was it easy?
Absolutely not.
There were days that, you know,I would go home and I would just
cry.
I thought, what am I doing?
I feel like I'm accepted.
(15:28):
Well, you know, I thought, well,I knew I knew why I was there.
I knew that I was led to bethere because, you know, uh I
had been a public schoolteacher.
Uh if I wanted to go back toteaching, I still had a
certificate and I could havedone that, but I chose not to
(15:50):
take that.
I I had a I had another calling,which some days I understood
fully.
And I no, let me let me saythis.
I always understood it.
I always knew that I had to askfor help.
I had to ask for divine help,but I had to ask for brotherly
and sisterly help.
(16:11):
I had to know that I was not putthere to do it by myself.
And some people think that theyneed to do to be successful,
it's all about me.
It's never, it's never all aboutyou.
You'll never be uh uh successfulon your own.
You can do, you can have you canhave some measurement of a
(16:34):
success doing doing some things.
But you have to connect.
But you but you have to connect.
But you also need to understandis I think why we why we are
commissioned to serve is that webuild community by serving
together.
SPEAKER_03 (16:53):
Yes, I agree.
SPEAKER_02 (16:54):
And and and we achieve more serving together.
And asking for help is uh is aum a sign that you are uh
confident to ask.
It is not a sign of weakness.
We used to uh say that a lot.
We had a program at the UrbanLeague where we taught soft
(17:15):
skills.
Soft skills mean you show up towork on time, you do this, you
do that, everything.
But also, soft skills does moreto get you to believe in
yourself.
You can do this.
Yeah, it's gonna be hard, butnothing's easy.
Nothing is easy.
SPEAKER_03 (17:32):
You make it look like it's if it's worth having,
you gotta know it's gonna beworking there.
And I think that people don'topen up enough to say, you know,
when I was paying my dues andwhatever that was, it wasn't
easy, you know.
And and I agree with you whenyou say, you know, some people
(17:54):
will look at you now and they'relike, oh wow, she's accomplished
so many things.
They haven't realized there wastime you took away from your
family.
Absolutely.
There was time that you tookaway from yourself, you know,
but you wanted to do for thegreater good, so you did that
sacrifice.
And I try to keep in my mind twois better than one.
(18:15):
And if you keep that in yourmind, two is better than one,
then you don't fall in that it'sall about me.
It's what I want.
You know, two is better thanone.
If you have somebody, if youbuild off a two, you can go to
three, you can go to four, thattype thing.
And I'll say this (18:31):
one of the people that recommended you for
my podcast, y'all have somethingI like.
Y'all are connectors.
Tammy White and you areconnectors.
Y'all connect people and youenjoy it.
You enjoy every person that Iwant you to know, several people
(18:52):
said, we want to hear her onyour podcast.
Okay.
And so, but every person thatsaid that, that was one of the
biggest things that they talkedabout.
It's how you connected peopleand how you have allowed people
to grow and you've shown themhow to grow.
You've uh you you've given themthe tools to grow, that type
thing.
SPEAKER_02 (19:12):
So my next question is I want to finish the question
to ask because you said how hasuh has your faith influenced
you?
Okay.
This is this is one of myguideposts.
The Lord didn't give me theopportunity or open a door for
me to go in and close it behindme.
(19:33):
He gave me the opportunity to bein that room so that I can see
how I can bring others into theroom, how I can make sure that
the door stays open.
And so that has been one of thethings.
Every time I was in a newsituation, and many times I
(19:54):
would be the only female andmost certainly the only African
American in the room.
My thought was how do I put moreseats at the table, even if we
got to bring our own chairs?
Yes.
How do I bring more people intothis?
And so I I would go to meetings,leaving as part of my strategy,
who am I gonna bring with menext?
(20:15):
But I would also say to them,okay, Ivanka, I'm bringing you
over here, and and your yourpayback is to bring somebody
else.
SPEAKER_03 (20:26):
But let me ask you this.
I'm glad you're bringing thatup.
Of your opinion, why do youthink some people think that is
it is it an insecurity inanybody that they feel like they
can't bring someone in?
(20:46):
You know, that type thing.
Because I'm like you, okay.
I heard a gentleman say this oneday, and I and I said to him, I
said, I don't agree.
He said, I want to own thetable.
That's what he said to me.
And I said, You what does thatmean?
You want to own the table.
I want to own the whole table.
And I said, So then you want itall your way, correct?
(21:07):
And he was like, I just want toshow my people that.
And I said, but wouldn't youlike to bring people in and show
how you helped form that tableof leaders?
That those leaders band togetherand they collaborate together to
for the greater good.
He said, Well, I didn't thinkabout it that way.
(21:28):
I said, it's not about owningthe table, it's about helping
people sit at the table.
And so I'm asking you thatquestion.
What is it?
Is it insecurity that somepeople think that they don't
want to bring someone to thetable?
Because of what when Iresearched you, you brought a
lot of people to the table.
Uh thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Thank you.
Uh that then then I accomplishedsomething that that I was
intentional about is to to openup the doors for other.
I think that it is not assimplistic as saying somebody's
insecure.
Okay.
I think that historically,depending on where people are,
(22:09):
we've only had one seat at thetable.
SPEAKER_03 (22:11):
That's true.
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
So am I gonna give up my seat for you?
Okay.
That's a good point.
Uh uh.
Uh and s insecurity does have,you know, I finally got in.
I've gotta, I've gotta make surethat I stay.
I never I never thought about itin that way.
Um So what would you tell peopleof today?
(22:33):
That that that um how to handlethat insecurity and still What
really happens is this when youbring others into the room, the
others recognize that youbrought others into the room.
So they see you as more as acollaborator, and everybody
(22:54):
wants to enlarge their tent.
Everybody wants to enlarge theirterritory.
I agree.
Okay, and you quickly know whothe person is in the room that's
the connector.
Or you know, uh I agree.
When when I'm in a committee andwe start talking about who's
(23:15):
gonna do what, the person thatgoes, Well, I know Joe, I know
Joanne, I know, that's theperson that I'm going to focus
with because they have a networkthat is going to move our agenda
forward.
But the person who sits there,and they'll say, Well, I can do
(23:36):
that.
You can only do so much, butyou've already said Joe and
Joanne and you.
That's a good thing.
That's four.
There's four that you havealready identified that could
help us.
Yes, I want you to help.
But but so expanding yourterritory, expanding your
network, that's beneficial forfor all.
(23:57):
And that was that was my thingto bring bring folks in.
So, yes, people are insecure.
But I think that the more thatyou're going to collaborate.
Right.
But it's really the more thatyou serve, the more you want to
serve.
SPEAKER_03 (24:13):
I agree.
I agree.
My next question to you is youknow, with living each day, you
were you said you live each daywith attitude of uh gratitude.
Please explain to the viewerswhat do you mean by that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:26):
So very quickly, I grew up um in Kingsford.
Both of my parents were smalltown, small house.
Okay.
Uh uh there were eight of us ina three-bedroom, one-bath home.
Really?
We were very privileged to havebecause you know, there was
(24:49):
redlining, there was all thesekinds of things.
We're talking in the early 60s,and for my family to be able to
buy a home was was quite theprivilege.
Now, we were we were very happy,but but it was crowded.
And so my parents taught usthat, you know, the girls do
(25:09):
this, the da-da-da.
So it was very, very regimented.
Okay.
But I knew that my parentsworked hard for us to have all
that we needed.
Not all that we wanted, all thatwe needed.
And um, I was I was blessed withwith family, and when I say
(25:30):
that, my my relatives, myuncles, my aunts, and all those,
everybody was supportive of thekids for education.
Education.
SPEAKER_03 (25:40):
That's how I grew up.
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
But also I knew this.
I knew even as a child that wehad opportunities that a lot of
my friends didn't have.
You know, we had a we had a car,and we could go and visit our
grandparents on the weekend.
Or, and this was something, youknow, some things happen in your
life.
You never, you never forget.
(26:03):
My mother would drive to thegrocery store, and our job was
to be standing at the doorhelping her carry those in and
put the things away.
One of my friends that I grew upwith, her mother would walk to
town, go to the grocery store,and take a cab back to the
projects where she lived.
I remember that, but I alsoremember my mother calling the
(26:26):
woman's name and says, you know,uh, because she was at the
store, she would take her homewith her groceries.
So she went there.
As a kid, I knew that we hadsomething that not everybody
had.
But when we were in school, herdaughter was one of my best
friends.
I mean, we would when we got toschool, we were thick as
thieves.
(26:46):
Yes.
So I knew that our existence wasdifferent.
Uh uh, so I knew that I hadopportun I grew up with some
people who wanted to get a jobat Tennessee Eastman or at the
press or whatever, and my dadsaid, you'll get an education.
You know, there's that if you ifyou do that, you know, that's
(27:09):
because you made a choice tooafter you got an education about
what else you can do.
And so I saw people whograduated from high school two
weeks later went and worked atthe plant, but they had a they
made a good living.
So I'm not making that, but theydidn't know what else was was
what else life could haveoffered them.
Right.
(27:29):
Because they only saw what theywhat they said.
SPEAKER_03 (27:32):
Going to the plant.
SPEAKER_02 (27:33):
And so um what I knew is that I saw opportunities
that a lot of people who werejust like me, who grew up like
me, uh didn't know thatopportunities existed.
They didn't know it was possiblefor them to do that.
(27:53):
I grew up in a community wherethere were absolutely no black
doctors, no black dentists, noblack attorneys.
So our role models were teachersand preachers and and and
nurses.
So didn't it exist in in when Iwas growing up in the in the in
the 50s and 60s that I could beany of those?
(28:16):
Yes, because our dad made usread books about people who did
that, but not everybody had thatopportunity.
Yes.
So so I knew early on thateducation, access, and
opportunity held a key forpeople.
And so it has been a guidepostfor me throughout my life, uh,
(28:37):
knowing that people need to havethose things.
SPEAKER_03 (28:40):
My grandfather always told us uh education is
key.
Oh, absolutely.
It's something that you that noone can take away from you.
And my where I was saying youwere speaking to me is that I
don't remember a time in mychildhood that if I wanted to go
to my grandmother's house, mymother would put us in the car
(29:01):
and we'd go to my grandmother'shouse.
You know, that type thing.
Did we do a lot of walking, youknow, as kids?
Yes, in the community we didthat, but that was more
recreational.
That wasn't because we had to.
You know what I'm saying?
So that's why I say you speak itup because it made me just think
about, you know, I never had toworry about if I want to go to
my grandmother's house, okay,where we're going.
(29:23):
That type of thing.
And I think a lot of peopledon't think about that.
Um, we had everything that weneeded.
We didn't have everything wewanted.
Um, I can say that my mom anddad worked really hard because
my mother, when I was born, mymother uh was living in the
projects, and my mother alwaystold us that this is our start,
(29:45):
but it's not our end.
And my mother said, I will getyou out of here, and my mother
did.
And so uh even now I I ride bythat that unit once a year, you
know, just to remember.
The good times because we wedidn't know any different.
It was just home to us, youknow, that type thing.
(30:05):
But my mother, she worked in afactory at the time, and my
mother said, I'm gonna get abetter job, and she did, and
they were her and my dad bothworked out at the plant, you
know, and uh worked 30, 40 yearsout there and did great.
But there was a lot of kids inmy neighborhood that I can
honestly say the same thingyou're saying is that was less
(30:25):
fortunate, you know, and mymother always made sure that we
were all fed.
If you came to my house, itdidn't matter what my mother
made everybody, you know, herkid.
Yeah, but you know, that typething.
And so gratitude, you have toremember that is showing
gratitude of even things thatyou didn't have to go through.
(30:46):
You know, I don't think peoplestop and think about that.
You know, uh, and I see that inyour life, you have got to see
kindness.
You want it, and so you want itto instill kindness in people.
Can you speak about the worldseems so divided right now for
whatever reason?
Okay, for whatever reason.
(31:07):
And can you speak on just beingkind and how that you have put
that in your professional lifeand your private life?
SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
So, so uh growing up uh uh in King Sport, we did two
things.
We went to school when we wentto church.
Okay, we went to school and wewent to church.
So uh we we learned a lot of howto live from and and our social
activities were at church aswell.
(31:39):
And so we didn't just just hearabout sharing.
We taught we would talk sharing.
We didn't just hear if you don'thave something good to say,
don't say anything.
They uh we had we had people whodemonstrated us to say the kind
(31:59):
things.
And also we had people who saidto us, be kind to those that
don't have, because they may beangels unaware.
Somebody said that to me inSunday school when I was maybe
five years old, and I was alwayslooking for the angels.
They said, You you must be kindto everyone because they're it
(32:22):
may be angels unaware.
So I took that as literal.
And I would look at growing up,I would look and I'd go, I know
that that person is an angelbecause they smiled at people.
They did that.
So I I know it sounds a littlepolyannish, but I would say this
(32:43):
growing up, my um uh growing upwas um not easy.
And uh in a community where youhad maybe six to eight percent
African American people.
So a lot of mean things weresaid to us as kids.
Um uh our parents says, but youdon't respond because somebody
(33:08):
else will take care of that foryou.
And so uh we we would smile.
Now, I'm not saying I was MissGoody Two Shoes because you
know, when I went through theteenage years, I was the fighter
in our family.
You said something to my littlesisters, it's gonna be a
problem.
It's gonna be a problem.
And so that fight has alwaysbeen in me.
(33:30):
Have I learned to control it?
Yeah, the fact that I'm olderand tired, you know, uh uh helps
you, but the fighter in mehelped me to direct my care for
the least of these.
Uh, I I think that we are at theheart of me, I think that I am I
(33:50):
was put on this this earth toserve.
What I was blessed to be able todo was to learn how.
Learn how through, you know,giving people tools, making
introductions, opening doors orwhatever.
But the heart of me is I amstill, you know, a servant.
(34:11):
Now they've dressed it up intobeing a servant leader.
That that means I have to, Ihave to open the door for
somebody else and show them, youknow, how to open the door for
somebody else or be kind tosomebody, demonstrate how to be
kind.
You know, my parents were kindwhen they didn't have it to be
(34:33):
kind.
Like you say, uh people wouldcome by or whatever in a small
community.
My mother always had you don'teat the last you don't eat the
last piece of bread becausesomebody might come on.
Yeah.
And people would We grew up alot alike.
Yes, we did.
And and we've we've lost thatfor a lot of reasons, which we
(34:54):
don't have to we could we canlose some of the actions, but we
don't have to lose the intent,you know, and so we still need
to feed the poor.
SPEAKER_03 (35:03):
You still need to need to house the homeless.
I mean I miss that part of ourchildhood because like at our
house, we feed everybody.
Okay.
I I raised my kids, me and myhusband built a family around
the same way we were brought up,and we feed everybody, you know,
uh, and we feed everybody thesame.
(35:24):
Okay.
I'm not gonna eat a steak infront of everybody and let
everybody else eat hot dogs.
Right.
Yamaka's not doing that, okay?
Uh my grandfather always said,you know, when you feed
somebody, be eating the samething they eat.
You know, that type thing.
And so, and it that's one way tokeep yourself humble.
That's one way to realize thatyou're not better than anybody.
(35:44):
And I was also raised as, youknow what, someone's pants may
cost more than yours, butthey're still pants.
You know, that type thing.
And so that's what keeps mehumble, and that keeps me to be,
you know, as you said, isdressed up now as servant
leader.
But a lot of things we like welearned in the church, you know,
because you know, my grandmotherwas on the Usher committee and
she was she made sure that weknew how to behave in church.
(36:09):
And that fire that you'retalking about, I was the
spitfire just like you was.
And but I think that fire reallyhelped us in our professional
world because it made us fightfor people that did not have a
voice and people that or didn'thave the strength to speak up
for themselves, you know,because Urban League alone,
(36:32):
you've done so many things inyour career, but Urban League
alone, you know, you have madeum rooms for people to come in
and just really learn how to bebetter in their self.
You wasn't what's the word forit?
You were not getting anythingout of it besides saying, I
(36:55):
helped that next person.
Viewers, I truly, truly thinkthat we need to go in a two-part
uh conversation with MissPhyllis because she's dropping
so many nuggets that I thinkthat everyone needs to hear
them, even me.
You know, um she's blessed mealready, and I want to keep
blessing you.
So tune in next week.
SPEAKER_00 (37:19):
Thanks for listening to Talk In Tennessee with
Yavonka.
Watch out for our weeklyepisodes from the first family
of real estate.
And check us out on the webwww.yavanka style real
estate.com.
See our videos on Yavanka'sYouTube channel, or find us on
the Facebook Yavanka LendinTwitter.
Everything from life blending and business with the
Tennessee to always relatable,always relevant, and always a
good time.
This is Duncan, Tennessee, andnow your host, Yavonka.
SPEAKER_01 (00:22):
This episode is brought to you by the Landis
Team, your go-to real estatefamily in East Tennessee.
If you are looking to buy orsell, we are the ones you should
call.
Give us a call at 865-660-1186or check out our website at
yavonka salesrealestate.com.
That's yavonka y v-o-n-n-c-asalesrealestate.com.
SPEAKER_03 (00:48):
Welcome back to Talking Tennessee with Yavonka.
I am your host, and I am herewith a dear friend that is going
to wow the whole show.
Her name is Phyllis Nichols.
Welcome to Talking Tennessee.
Thank you, Yovanka, for invitingme to be with you.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
You've got you've got a beautiful track record of
talking uh with some veryimportant people on some very
important topics.
SPEAKER_03 (01:12):
Thank you so much.
Well, let me just say this toyou viewers.
I have admired this person fromafar for so many years.
I met her some years ago, but wewere at a gala.
And so, you know, when you're ata gala and you're and you're all
dressed up and you're meetingpeople and all that kind of
thing, you never get to reallystop and talk to the person as
(01:33):
long.
So I had to have this person on.
I've been wanting it for twoyears, I will say that.
But I just needed God to tell mewhen to go because I knew that
this was going to be a powerful,uh, uplifting interview
conversation that everybodyneeds to hear, but it needed to
(01:53):
be the right time.
So I thank you for coming.
Oh, I'm pleased to be here.
Very honor.
Please tell me who PhyllisNichols is.
SPEAKER_02 (02:01):
I think if you'd asked me that question two or
three or five years ago, myanswer would have been uh a
little different.
But in retrospect, now, at mywhere I am in my life now, being
retired for two years, I've hadtime to reflect and understand
(02:22):
who I really am.
So I would say that first ofall, I define myself as a
Christian.
I am a wife, I am a mother, I ama grandmother, I am a sister and
an auntie to a bunch of a bunchof adults.
SPEAKER_03 (02:46):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (02:47):
And so what I've said there is, you know, uh in
my relationship with Christ,that is the the center of who I
am and how I try to live, themost important thing of who I am
is my family.
SPEAKER_03 (03:02):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (03:02):
It is it is my family.
You know, uh uh what I do andhow I interact and how I go
about the world now all focuseson faith and family.
But I'm also uh uh in additionto that, okay, um, I'm a
community advocate.
(03:24):
The work that I did for 40 yearshas not gone away.
I tend to approach it in adifferent way.
I tend to allocate my time.
I am a civil rights advocate.
I am a public school advocate.
I am a women's rights advocate.
(03:46):
I'm a human rights advocate.
And so those things were uh werea part of what I did in my
professional career, but and andit helped to mold the
personality that I have and thecommitment that I have.
I just go about engaging andsupporting those things in a
(04:08):
different way now.
SPEAKER_03 (04:10):
Well, let me just say this.
There are so many women in theworld that in 40s and 50s and
above that sit and think, okay,who am I?
And I tell women all the time,you find out who you are
multiple times.
Oh, you change.
SPEAKER_02 (04:31):
You change.
SPEAKER_03 (04:32):
You change the woman I was in my 20s, I'm in my 50s
now.
I'm a totally different woman.
You know, so I can relate towhat you're saying.
There are so many differentlayers to you.
You know, and I can evenunderstand, you know, even
retiring.
Let me first say, how long didyou serve as the CEO of the
Urban League?
SPEAKER_02 (04:53):
Almost 30 years.
But I had a I had a career ineducation and and and private
business before then.
And, you know, long story isthat I I learned so many things
which helped me to be successfuluh uh as the CEO of the Urban
League.
But uh I I spent and wascommitted nearly 30 years of my
(05:14):
life to the Natural Area UrbanLeague and the Urban League
movement.
SPEAKER_03 (05:18):
What made you want to go to work at the Urban
League?
SPEAKER_02 (05:25):
Uh at the time, and this was like in 1994, and so
people can figure out my age orwhatever.
I'm old.
She doesn't look no, she's not.
But but at that time, I was partof a uh program with the College
of Social Work at UT who helpedthe Urban League to develop a
program.
And under that time, it wascalled Wellfire Work, which I
(05:48):
hate that that name, but that'suh was in during the Clinton
administration, and that's whatthey called it.
And the the premise of theprogram uh was to help women who
were out of the workforce getinto the workforce and become
self-sufficient.
Well, that sounds really nice,doesn't it?
Right.
(06:09):
But if you've never had a joband you've got small kids at
home and you lack transportationand health care and you lack the
necessities to be able to go towork, how do you do it?
And you don't have marketableskills.
So that program was to helpwomen transition.
The Urban League uh was doingthe workforce development
(06:32):
programs, uh, administrativeassistance, CNAs, doing all
things to get people in, butalso to show you a career path.
But if you were going back towork as a small, as a mother
with small kids, uh how and youwere taking care of them at
home, one of the things that theprogram did was help develop
(06:54):
collaboration so that you wouldknow who would be the child care
provider and help you connect tothat.
Also, if you don't havetransportation, how are you
gonna get to the job?
Uh if you have never ridden thebus, and this was 94, how how do
you access that?
And uh also um most jobs back inthe day, you had to have a chest
(07:18):
x-ray, you had to you had tohave a tuberculosis test, you
had to things that you had a lotof things before you went to
work.
Um uh and so the Urban Leaguehelped help to coordinate all
that.
What made me change my mindabout it is that one day a young
lady walked in and, you know, Iwas there, had my manila folder
(07:41):
and all stuff because you knowwe were going to do her intake
and sign her up.
And she got up after saying somefew choice words to me, she got
up and left.
And so the person that wasassigned as my assistant to help
do all the paperwork, she wentrunning down the hall and she
says, You can't say that to MissNichols.
(08:01):
You can't say that.
She said, I don't know who thatlady is, and she doesn't know
who I am.
I can say whatever I want.
Okay.
It was a reckoning for me.
I bet it was.
Because I didn't know her.
You didn't?
Her name was Evelyn.
I didn't know Evelyn.
I just saw her as the way thatso many times we treat people is
(08:26):
we see them as a file and anumber.
And it transformed me because Isaw this woman who uh really
wanted to improve her situation,but I hadn't given her the
dignity that she deserved.
Long story short.
SPEAKER_03 (08:46):
Let me say this.
Most people would never admitthat.
Oh, that's commendable for youto admit.
You know, I I didn't treat herin in a certain way.
Right, right.
Keep going.
SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
So so one of the things that um we did is long
story short, we brought Evelynback.
Evelyn, Evelyn was like ateacher to me because I learned
a whole lot of stuff aboutriding the bus and doing the
things that I never knew.
But I and and Evelyn was adifficult placement.
She took me through the stormand the fire and the everything.
(09:24):
But I told her, I said, Evelyn,one one day you're gonna get a
job and girlfriend, you're gonnabuy my lunch and you're gonna
give me that first dollar,because I bought many of lunches
for her.
Okay.
And so she came in and thathappened.
But what I did, and you say whatpeople wouldn't um admit to that
(09:47):
story, that story has been myguidepost.
I hung Evelyn's pay stub and herher dollar, which she was
supposed to buy me a hot dog.
I said I'd rather have thedollar.
And I hung that in my office,not not as a show piece, but to
remind me who I was and why Iwas there.
(10:11):
But also the people who workedfor me, the people who worked
with us, the people in thecollaboration.
Evelyn was the story of why wewere there and why we worked so
hard to help people because wehad taken her from this one end
of the spectrum to another.
Evelyn, Evelyn did well, and forthree or four years, she would
(10:33):
always drop drop in and let meknow.
But every person that we wouldhelp at the Urban League, I
learned a lesson from them.
People would say, why do you doit?
Because nobody is more excitedwhen they got a job than me.
Because I knew what the futurewould mean for them, uh both for
(10:56):
their self-esteem and for theirfamily and for the the future.
I totally agree.
Uh uh we we did um a lot of workwith preparing people to be uh a
homeowner.
Well, there's a lot of work whenyou're starting with somebody
from ground zero to prepare themto be credit worthy, mortgage
(11:17):
ready, all that.
And to celebrate when they closeon their first home, it feels
like I'm moving in.
Yes.
I settled in.
But we also celebrated whenpeople became business owners
because you know, people wouldcome in with a dream of wanting
to own a restaurant.
(11:38):
And so we'd have to give themthe hard lesson of just because
you can cook doesn't mean youcan own restaurants.
These are the things that, inaddition to a skill, you have to
you have to know.
SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
You have to know how to run a business.
SPEAKER_02 (11:52):
But I believe that everything that we did started
with education.
So understanding that educationwas the basis for being able to
move people forward, uh, wefocused more uh on going into
schools and and helping folks.
Let's try to prepare people fora lifetime of of
(12:13):
self-sufficiency, not andsuccess.
And success.
Whatever that looks like tothem.
Absolutely.
But also being able tounderstand that dreams can come
true, not because you wish it tobe, but because you plan and
work for it to be.
(12:35):
And what we quickly understoodis that uh uh folks want to be
successful.
Yes.
They just don't know how.
And it is incumbent on those whohave made it and have struggled
to understand the struggle andto help others to to achieve
(12:57):
their their goals and dreams aswell.
SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
I think that's how I got there.
I think if you becomesuccessful, um I think that it's
your duty to to share.
Because it may you just sharingyour story could give them the
fight to see, okay, if theyaccomplish that, I may can
(13:19):
accomplish my success.
Right.
It may not look the same, but Ican, you know, make my family
proud, make my kids proud, makemy spouse have proud, make
myself proud.
But I think a lot of times thatpeople forget that part.
And I think you've done a greatjob in showing with your walk of
(13:40):
really devoting your time toyour community, um, letting
people talk to you and ask youquestions and say, How do you do
this?
I think when you humble yourselfand allow yourself to see other
people's situations and notmeasure them up and just see the
person for who they are and justtry to help someone, it makes a
(14:04):
huge difference in someone'slife.
And I think that that God wantsus to be able to help the body
of Christ, that be a vessel forhim, you know, pour into people.
And I think you've done a greatjob in that.
Um, how has your faith shapedthe person you are today in the
way you lead?
SPEAKER_02 (14:23):
Oh, my faith has uh helped me to get through some
really hard times.
You know, people have thetendency to look at someone
where they are presently andthey think, oh, they had it,
they had it easy or or this oryou know, how how could they
know?
Uh because we don't all talkabout our struggles.
(14:46):
When when when I inherited, Icalled it the big seek at the
Urban League.
The Urban League had had nomoney, you know, very few, very
few staff people.
But what I was privileged toknow because I traveled the
country and saw what asuccessful, thriving,
(15:06):
contributing Urban Leagueaffiliate does, I knew we could
do that in Knoxville.
And uh I used that as myinspiration.
Was it easy?
Absolutely not.
There were days that, you know,I would go home and I would just
cry.
I thought, what am I doing?
I feel like I'm accepted.
(15:28):
Well, you know, I thought, well,I knew I knew why I was there.
I knew that I was led to bethere because, you know, uh I
had been a public schoolteacher.
Uh if I wanted to go back toteaching, I still had a
certificate and I could havedone that, but I chose not to
(15:50):
take that.
I I had a I had another calling,which some days I understood
fully.
And I no, let me let me saythis.
I always understood it.
I always knew that I had to askfor help.
I had to ask for divine help,but I had to ask for brotherly
and sisterly help.
(16:11):
I had to know that I was not putthere to do it by myself.
And some people think that theyneed to do to be successful,
it's all about me.
It's never, it's never all aboutyou.
You'll never be uh uh successfulon your own.
You can do, you can have you canhave some measurement of a
(16:34):
success doing doing some things.
But you have to connect.
But you but you have to connect.
But you also need to understandis I think why we why we are
commissioned to serve is that webuild community by serving
together.
SPEAKER_03 (16:53):
Yes, I agree.
SPEAKER_02 (16:54):
And and and we achieve more serving together.
And asking for help is uh is aum a sign that you are uh
confident to ask.
It is not a sign of weakness.
We used to uh say that a lot.
We had a program at the UrbanLeague where we taught soft
(17:15):
skills.
Soft skills mean you show up towork on time, you do this, you
do that, everything.
But also, soft skills does moreto get you to believe in
yourself.
You can do this.
Yeah, it's gonna be hard, butnothing's easy.
Nothing is easy.
SPEAKER_03 (17:32):
You make it look like it's if it's worth having,
you gotta know it's gonna beworking there.
And I think that people don'topen up enough to say, you know,
when I was paying my dues andwhatever that was, it wasn't
easy, you know.
And and I agree with you whenyou say, you know, some people
(17:54):
will look at you now and they'relike, oh wow, she's accomplished
so many things.
They haven't realized there wastime you took away from your
family.
Absolutely.
There was time that you tookaway from yourself, you know,
but you wanted to do for thegreater good, so you did that
sacrifice.
And I try to keep in my mind twois better than one.
(18:15):
And if you keep that in yourmind, two is better than one,
then you don't fall in that it'sall about me.
It's what I want.
You know, two is better thanone.
If you have somebody, if youbuild off a two, you can go to
three, you can go to four, thattype thing.
And I'll say this (18:31):
one of the people that recommended you for
my podcast, y'all have somethingI like.
Y'all are connectors.
Tammy White and you areconnectors.
Y'all connect people and youenjoy it.
You enjoy every person that Iwant you to know, several people
(18:52):
said, we want to hear her onyour podcast.
Okay.
And so, but every person thatsaid that, that was one of the
biggest things that they talkedabout.
It's how you connected peopleand how you have allowed people
to grow and you've shown themhow to grow.
You've uh you you've given themthe tools to grow, that type
thing.
SPEAKER_02 (19:12):
So my next question is I want to finish the question
to ask because you said how hasuh has your faith influenced
you?
Okay.
This is this is one of myguideposts.
The Lord didn't give me theopportunity or open a door for
me to go in and close it behindme.
(19:33):
He gave me the opportunity to bein that room so that I can see
how I can bring others into theroom, how I can make sure that
the door stays open.
And so that has been one of thethings.
Every time I was in a newsituation, and many times I
(19:54):
would be the only female andmost certainly the only African
American in the room.
My thought was how do I put moreseats at the table, even if we
got to bring our own chairs?
Yes.
How do I bring more people intothis?
And so I I would go to meetings,leaving as part of my strategy,
who am I gonna bring with menext?
(20:15):
But I would also say to them,okay, Ivanka, I'm bringing you
over here, and and your yourpayback is to bring somebody
else.
SPEAKER_03 (20:26):
But let me ask you this.
I'm glad you're bringing thatup.
Of your opinion, why do youthink some people think that is
it is it an insecurity inanybody that they feel like they
can't bring someone in?
(20:46):
You know, that type thing.
Because I'm like you, okay.
I heard a gentleman say this oneday, and I and I said to him, I
said, I don't agree.
He said, I want to own thetable.
That's what he said to me.
And I said, You what does thatmean?
You want to own the table.
I want to own the whole table.
And I said, So then you want itall your way, correct?
(21:07):
And he was like, I just want toshow my people that.
And I said, but wouldn't youlike to bring people in and show
how you helped form that tableof leaders?
That those leaders band togetherand they collaborate together to
for the greater good.
He said, Well, I didn't thinkabout it that way.
(21:28):
I said, it's not about owningthe table, it's about helping
people sit at the table.
And so I'm asking you thatquestion.
What is it?
Is it insecurity that somepeople think that they don't
want to bring someone to thetable?
Because of what when Iresearched you, you brought a
lot of people to the table.
Uh thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Thank you.
Uh that then then I accomplishedsomething that that I was
intentional about is to to openup the doors for other.
I think that it is not assimplistic as saying somebody's
insecure.
Okay.
I think that historically,depending on where people are,
(22:09):
we've only had one seat at thetable.
SPEAKER_03 (22:11):
That's true.
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
So am I gonna give up my seat for you?
Okay.
That's a good point.
Uh uh.
Uh and s insecurity does have,you know, I finally got in.
I've gotta, I've gotta make surethat I stay.
I never I never thought about itin that way.
Um So what would you tell peopleof today?
(22:33):
That that that um how to handlethat insecurity and still What
really happens is this when youbring others into the room, the
others recognize that youbrought others into the room.
So they see you as more as acollaborator, and everybody
(22:54):
wants to enlarge their tent.
Everybody wants to enlarge theirterritory.
I agree.
Okay, and you quickly know whothe person is in the room that's
the connector.
Or you know, uh I agree.
When when I'm in a committee andwe start talking about who's
(23:15):
gonna do what, the person thatgoes, Well, I know Joe, I know
Joanne, I know, that's theperson that I'm going to focus
with because they have a networkthat is going to move our agenda
forward.
But the person who sits there,and they'll say, Well, I can do
(23:36):
that.
You can only do so much, butyou've already said Joe and
Joanne and you.
That's a good thing.
That's four.
There's four that you havealready identified that could
help us.
Yes, I want you to help.
But but so expanding yourterritory, expanding your
network, that's beneficial forfor all.
(23:57):
And that was that was my thingto bring bring folks in.
So, yes, people are insecure.
But I think that the more thatyou're going to collaborate.
Right.
But it's really the more thatyou serve, the more you want to
serve.
SPEAKER_03 (24:13):
I agree.
I agree.
My next question to you is youknow, with living each day, you
were you said you live each daywith attitude of uh gratitude.
Please explain to the viewerswhat do you mean by that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:26):
So very quickly, I grew up um in Kingsford.
Both of my parents were smalltown, small house.
Okay.
Uh uh there were eight of us ina three-bedroom, one-bath home.
Really?
We were very privileged to havebecause you know, there was
(24:49):
redlining, there was all thesekinds of things.
We're talking in the early 60s,and for my family to be able to
buy a home was was quite theprivilege.
Now, we were we were very happy,but but it was crowded.
And so my parents taught usthat, you know, the girls do
(25:09):
this, the da-da-da.
So it was very, very regimented.
Okay.
But I knew that my parentsworked hard for us to have all
that we needed.
Not all that we wanted, all thatwe needed.
And um, I was I was blessed withwith family, and when I say
(25:30):
that, my my relatives, myuncles, my aunts, and all those,
everybody was supportive of thekids for education.
Education.
SPEAKER_03 (25:40):
That's how I grew up.
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
But also I knew this.
I knew even as a child that wehad opportunities that a lot of
my friends didn't have.
You know, we had a we had a car,and we could go and visit our
grandparents on the weekend.
Or, and this was something, youknow, some things happen in your
life.
You never, you never forget.
(26:03):
My mother would drive to thegrocery store, and our job was
to be standing at the doorhelping her carry those in and
put the things away.
One of my friends that I grew upwith, her mother would walk to
town, go to the grocery store,and take a cab back to the
projects where she lived.
I remember that, but I alsoremember my mother calling the
(26:26):
woman's name and says, you know,uh, because she was at the
store, she would take her homewith her groceries.
So she went there.
As a kid, I knew that we hadsomething that not everybody
had.
But when we were in school, herdaughter was one of my best
friends.
I mean, we would when we got toschool, we were thick as
thieves.
(26:46):
Yes.
So I knew that our existence wasdifferent.
Uh uh, so I knew that I hadopportun I grew up with some
people who wanted to get a jobat Tennessee Eastman or at the
press or whatever, and my dadsaid, you'll get an education.
You know, there's that if you ifyou do that, you know, that's
(27:09):
because you made a choice tooafter you got an education about
what else you can do.
And so I saw people whograduated from high school two
weeks later went and worked atthe plant, but they had a they
made a good living.
So I'm not making that, but theydidn't know what else was was
what else life could haveoffered them.
Right.
(27:29):
Because they only saw what theywhat they said.
SPEAKER_03 (27:32):
Going to the plant.
SPEAKER_02 (27:33):
And so um what I knew is that I saw opportunities
that a lot of people who werejust like me, who grew up like
me, uh didn't know thatopportunities existed.
They didn't know it was possiblefor them to do that.
(27:53):
I grew up in a community wherethere were absolutely no black
doctors, no black dentists, noblack attorneys.
So our role models were teachersand preachers and and and
nurses.
So didn't it exist in in when Iwas growing up in the in the in
the 50s and 60s that I could beany of those?
(28:16):
Yes, because our dad made usread books about people who did
that, but not everybody had thatopportunity.
Yes.
So so I knew early on thateducation, access, and
opportunity held a key forpeople.
And so it has been a guidepostfor me throughout my life, uh,
(28:37):
knowing that people need to havethose things.
SPEAKER_03 (28:40):
My grandfather always told us uh education is
key.
Oh, absolutely.
It's something that you that noone can take away from you.
And my where I was saying youwere speaking to me is that I
don't remember a time in mychildhood that if I wanted to go
to my grandmother's house, mymother would put us in the car
(29:01):
and we'd go to my grandmother'shouse.
You know, that type thing.
Did we do a lot of walking, youknow, as kids?
Yes, in the community we didthat, but that was more
recreational.
That wasn't because we had to.
You know what I'm saying?
So that's why I say you speak itup because it made me just think
about, you know, I never had toworry about if I want to go to
my grandmother's house, okay,where we're going.
(29:23):
That type of thing.
And I think a lot of peopledon't think about that.
Um, we had everything that weneeded.
We didn't have everything wewanted.
Um, I can say that my mom anddad worked really hard because
my mother, when I was born, mymother uh was living in the
projects, and my mother alwaystold us that this is our start,
(29:45):
but it's not our end.
And my mother said, I will getyou out of here, and my mother
did.
And so uh even now I I ride bythat that unit once a year, you
know, just to remember.
The good times because we wedidn't know any different.
It was just home to us, youknow, that type thing.
(30:05):
But my mother, she worked in afactory at the time, and my
mother said, I'm gonna get abetter job, and she did, and
they were her and my dad bothworked out at the plant, you
know, and uh worked 30, 40 yearsout there and did great.
But there was a lot of kids inmy neighborhood that I can
honestly say the same thingyou're saying is that was less
(30:25):
fortunate, you know, and mymother always made sure that we
were all fed.
If you came to my house, itdidn't matter what my mother
made everybody, you know, herkid.
Yeah, but you know, that typething.
And so gratitude, you have toremember that is showing
gratitude of even things thatyou didn't have to go through.
(30:46):
You know, I don't think peoplestop and think about that.
You know, uh, and I see that inyour life, you have got to see
kindness.
You want it, and so you want itto instill kindness in people.
Can you speak about the worldseems so divided right now for
whatever reason?
Okay, for whatever reason.
(31:07):
And can you speak on just beingkind and how that you have put
that in your professional lifeand your private life?
SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
So, so uh growing up uh uh in King Sport, we did two
things.
We went to school when we wentto church.
Okay, we went to school and wewent to church.
So uh we we learned a lot of howto live from and and our social
activities were at church aswell.
(31:39):
And so we didn't just just hearabout sharing.
We taught we would talk sharing.
We didn't just hear if you don'thave something good to say,
don't say anything.
They uh we had we had people whodemonstrated us to say the kind
(31:59):
things.
And also we had people who saidto us, be kind to those that
don't have, because they may beangels unaware.
Somebody said that to me inSunday school when I was maybe
five years old, and I was alwayslooking for the angels.
They said, You you must be kindto everyone because they're it
(32:22):
may be angels unaware.
So I took that as literal.
And I would look at growing up,I would look and I'd go, I know
that that person is an angelbecause they smiled at people.
They did that.
So I I know it sounds a littlepolyannish, but I would say this
(32:43):
growing up, my um uh growing upwas um not easy.
And uh in a community where youhad maybe six to eight percent
African American people.
So a lot of mean things weresaid to us as kids.
Um uh our parents says, but youdon't respond because somebody
(33:08):
else will take care of that foryou.
And so uh we we would smile.
Now, I'm not saying I was MissGoody Two Shoes because you
know, when I went through theteenage years, I was the fighter
in our family.
You said something to my littlesisters, it's gonna be a
problem.
It's gonna be a problem.
And so that fight has alwaysbeen in me.
(33:30):
Have I learned to control it?
Yeah, the fact that I'm olderand tired, you know, uh uh helps
you, but the fighter in mehelped me to direct my care for
the least of these.
Uh, I I think that we are at theheart of me, I think that I am I
(33:50):
was put on this this earth toserve.
What I was blessed to be able todo was to learn how.
Learn how through, you know,giving people tools, making
introductions, opening doors orwhatever.
But the heart of me is I amstill, you know, a servant.
(34:11):
Now they've dressed it up intobeing a servant leader.
That that means I have to, Ihave to open the door for
somebody else and show them, youknow, how to open the door for
somebody else or be kind tosomebody, demonstrate how to be
kind.
You know, my parents were kindwhen they didn't have it to be
(34:33):
kind.
Like you say, uh people wouldcome by or whatever in a small
community.
My mother always had you don'teat the last you don't eat the
last piece of bread becausesomebody might come on.
Yeah.
And people would We grew up alot alike.
Yes, we did.
And and we've we've lost thatfor a lot of reasons, which we
(34:54):
don't have to we could we canlose some of the actions, but we
don't have to lose the intent,you know, and so we still need
to feed the poor.
SPEAKER_03 (35:03):
You still need to need to house the homeless.
I mean I miss that part of ourchildhood because like at our
house, we feed everybody.
Okay.
I I raised my kids, me and myhusband built a family around
the same way we were brought up,and we feed everybody, you know,
uh, and we feed everybody thesame.
(35:24):
Okay.
I'm not gonna eat a steak infront of everybody and let
everybody else eat hot dogs.
Right.
Yamaka's not doing that, okay?
Uh my grandfather always said,you know, when you feed
somebody, be eating the samething they eat.
You know, that type thing.
And so, and it that's one way tokeep yourself humble.
That's one way to realize thatyou're not better than anybody.
(35:44):
And I was also raised as, youknow what, someone's pants may
cost more than yours, butthey're still pants.
You know, that type thing.
And so that's what keeps mehumble, and that keeps me to be,
you know, as you said, isdressed up now as servant
leader.
But a lot of things we like welearned in the church, you know,
because you know, my grandmotherwas on the Usher committee and
she was she made sure that weknew how to behave in church.
(36:09):
And that fire that you'retalking about, I was the
spitfire just like you was.
And but I think that fire reallyhelped us in our professional
world because it made us fightfor people that did not have a
voice and people that or didn'thave the strength to speak up
for themselves, you know,because Urban League alone,
(36:32):
you've done so many things inyour career, but Urban League
alone, you know, you have madeum rooms for people to come in
and just really learn how to bebetter in their self.
You wasn't what's the word forit?
You were not getting anythingout of it besides saying, I
(36:55):
helped that next person.
Viewers, I truly, truly thinkthat we need to go in a two-part
uh conversation with MissPhyllis because she's dropping
so many nuggets that I thinkthat everyone needs to hear
them, even me.
You know, um she's blessed mealready, and I want to keep
blessing you.
So tune in next week.
SPEAKER_00 (37:19):
Thanks for listening to Talk In Tennessee with
Yavonka.
Watch out for our weeklyepisodes from the first family
of real estate.
And check us out on the webwww.yavanka style real
estate.com.
See our videos on Yavanka'sYouTube channel, or find us on
the Facebook Yavanka LendinTwitter.
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